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Pick Up the Phone: The Old School Move That Will Scale Your Coaching Practice with Brandon Snyder · The Ambitious Coach Lab

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Ambitious Coach Lab, Powered by Nightmare.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Dr.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Cam Linson.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Each week we explore the real tactics, tough conversations, and breakthrough moments that drive coaching success.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Let's jump into today's episode.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: All right, friends, I am so excited to introduce Brandon Snyder, one of my personal best friends.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: He is an outgrow advisor.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: He is a legend in the EOS community at 90, one of my uh first friends when I first joined the team at 90.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: So Brandon and I go way back.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but super excited to jump in and kind of dive into as he is one of the newer outgrow advisors of how he's built some of his vision for his practice as he's launched this and jumped into it and then talk a little bit about his business development strategy.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, Brandon, welcome to the show.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Cam, I love you, bro.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for uh thanks for having me.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: And uh man, when you say things like legend, it's like, ooh, I don't know if I can live up to that, but I sure appreciate the uh the sentiment, dude.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks a lot.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's funny.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I think 90 put us in um in proximity to just develop relational capital with a lot of people in the in the space and the business operating ecosystem, if you will.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it's uh it's fun to be be known in that.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: But I I've talked to many people who have enjoyed working alongside you and were impacted by you in a positive way, myself included.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I am so excited to kind of jump into this conversation, man.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: Just do it, bro.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Take me where you want to go.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Lead me there.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, dude, tell us a little bit about your your journey to kind of where you're at in this current moment.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: How did you get to outgrow 90?
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, just tell us the story.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think for the last 20 years, which sounds crazy uh for me to say, um, but all of my career, revenue has sort of been the heartbeat of what I've been doing.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Whether it's been in client success or it's been in sales or it's been in marketing, I've in some way in my career always touched revenue.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I have this kind of full funnel picture of revenue from the time something is a dream on a list to the time that you are landing it, expanding it, and farming it, getting the maximum value out of that customer.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've I've seen that journey, I've lived that journey.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I started out in kind of account management.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I started a video production company with some buddies, and I was really like the sales guy.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: That was my role.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: I went out and won customers.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: And along the way, we got acquired by a digital agency who was trying to add video production skills to their chops.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I learned a little bit about, you know, mergers and how that works.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, got out of that space and I ran marketing in an IT company for uh for a good while.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: That company was also acquired, and I uh I got out of that company.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was around this time that one of your guests, who was consequently my uncle, his name is Chris Snyder, uh, called Uncle Chris.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, hey man, look, I'm on the job market.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what do what do you know that's out there?
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: What should I do?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: And he he exposed me to this whole EOS concept because he was, he, I think he had just started doing EOS.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Gosh, this is probably five, four or five years ago.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, hey, why don't you do some lead gen for me?
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's my background.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm used to generating leads.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: And um I worked with Chris to build this referral process.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do you intentionally and systematically identify your connectors, the people who know, love, and trust you, and put a process behind that to proactively get um engage with them and get them to give you referrals and it's this whole system.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I did that for Chris.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: We saw a lot of success, and then I did that for like 24.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: I had a uh I started a business called Revenue Traction Group.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: I did that for like 24 EOSIs.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: That was a fun ride.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: EOS franchised, and it caused, without getting into the details, it caused some turbulence in the business.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and right when I was getting out of that business, I got um recruited to come work at 90, kind of in the partnership side of the business to basically do what I was doing for EOSIs just for 90.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I rode that out for almost four years.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that was a hell of a ride, learned a lot.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I was with 90 through, yeah, I think I started, I was employee 28.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: We were at 4 million in revenue.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh fast forward to at our peak, we were 208 employees, 40 million in uh annual recurring revenue in less than four years.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I just got this uh you turned me onto this book, Cam.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: So along the way, you turned me on to this book called Pick Up the Phone and Sell by Alex Goldfein.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that changed.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then I consequently read Outground, and that changed my perspective on everything I had been doing to grow businesses up to this point has been largely new acquisition.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: And acquisition is brutal.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's brutal.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: If you're especially if you're in an established business, and Alex's content really helped me see a different path to growth that I think um most entrepreneurs aren't leveraging the way they should.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to go out there and help them do that.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: So recently wound down my time at 90, jumped into outgrow, and now I'm doing that.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: Here we are.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome, man.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that um Alex's book, Pick Up the Phone and Sell.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: It was just one of those, I can't, I think I had seen somebody recommend it on LinkedIn, and and I picked it up, and I we were basically in in similar role at 90, and I was more focused on the EOS implementers.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was like, hey, I'm gonna try this.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's just pick up the phone and start calling people.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: And lo and behold, it worked, and it started building conversations, and man, it really transformed it.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: I remember, I remember this time, Cam, because we were looking at scorecards.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: This was like over like a four to six week period.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: And in outgrowth, we call that when you were making proactive calls, we call it swinging the bat.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: You were up there swinging the bat, and your actions, there's a correlation between how many times you swung the bat and how many times an EOS implementer would refer 90 business.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, I was like, because at the time I was like, oh look, Cam, if Cam wants to be the Maverick renegade and go explore this thing, like who are we to say no?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: Let's let's let's go do that.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then when I saw the results and the data, like there's actually outcomes and impacts to these actions.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's insane.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: Who knew?
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I would I knew I saw firsthand for the first time was actually from you, ironically.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, it's such a simple thing, right?
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's I think what a lot of I would say business owners miss is you know, there's all these frameworks and philosophies and and hacks, if you want to call it, of how do we drive revenue?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: What's the new marketing thing that we can do this year?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes we forget good old-fashioned calling people and staying top of mind and you know, pushing new ways.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: You can already do that through expansion within your existing client base.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: There's more to get through there.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: So that was just, I mean, the proof is in the pudding right there.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, just the the results alone for 90 and a very focused effort, which could have been maximized.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but yeah, it is such a great methodology.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, this morning, Cam, um, because I'm I'm I'm doing biz def in my practice.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think I made six or seven phone calls this morning and I booked three meetings out of it.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, uh, it works.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you just gotta pick up the phone and sell.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it makes sense from a sport.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a sports guy, right?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: And and I played baseball, you know, and I mean it makes sense.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you get a slugger up there, you want to get that person as many at bats as you can because they're gonna hit home runs.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna hit some singles, they're gonna hit some doubles, some triples, but they're also gonna get hit some home runs.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: But if they're not on doing, you know, up at the plate swinging.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, what is the famous Michael Scott quote where it's like, or that he credits to like himself, Wayne Gretzky, all the things where it's like you miss 100% of the shots that you don't take, right?
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like, uh, but you know, I there's something to that, and it's so simple.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: But so, I mean, let's talk a little bit about as you've transitioned to working on your own, right?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: You came out of 90 working for, you know, an organization, and now you're going in and building this practice.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's probably a lot of one of the core competencies that we talk about for ambitious coaches is you've got to be clear on your vision, your why behind what you're doing.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: So, can you talk a little bit about your process of how you've gone through that of finding your why as an outgrow advisor?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: I've recently, you know, just as I've gotten more experience uh professionally, I've been really questioning the nature of growth.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why do we want to grow?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and look, I know, like, you know, we're all capitalists, you know, we we're in a capitalist economy, and you can summarize capitalism with one word, more.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel like there's a deeper why behind the more.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of times it's like we want to grow because we want to take care of not if I'm an entrepreneur, it's not only my family I want to take care of, but I often feel this deep love and connection for my people.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel this responsibility to take care of them and their families.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: So um, I feel like as I explore the next phase of my career, I believe I found deep joy in my career from going out there and creating value and helping people and being able to feed my family.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like there's this huge opportunity to have a multiplying effect.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: As I do this, if I do this for a company that has a hundred employees, the sales team, like it or not, is often the revenue generation engine, revenue is oxygen.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: You're literally breathing life into the employees, into the shareholders that are part of this ecosystem and the community that these businesses are in.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: So if I found, you know, five or six companies kind of in year one that had between 50 and 100 employees, I know I deeply believe the work and the talents that I bring to them to help them grow.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: You're taking care of families, you're taking care of communities.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a hugely satisfying thing for a revenue guy.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: So uh having explored kind of the why behind growth and the and the engine behind it um excites me.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's really helped me stay focused on.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think if I'm I'm kind of cheating, I'm looking over here at my at my uh my focus right now.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really, I want to help leaders find uh freedom, fulfillment, and pride in building something significant, an asset that they could even transfer in the future.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I really want to help um ambitious um leaders because I think to really grow like this, you have to have a certain level of ambition, open-mindedness, and um creative thinking.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they need an ambitious coach for that, right?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: They might need an ambitious coach for that.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: The ambitious advisor.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: We'll we'll let you out of it.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, no, that's awesome.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you so I've had a little bit of a front seat to as you've been kind of dialoguing through this and working through this on your own.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I know, because I've seen the sneak peek behind the curtain, that you have actually run, I mean, sessions, annual planning sessions for yourself as a solopreneur.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: You're not in a firm necessarily, you are working for yourself.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: So you went and sat down and actually went through a process.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: Can you share a little bit about how that was?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because for some coaches, they might be thinking that's crazy.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, yes.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: The answer is yes, I'll talk through it.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it does feel kind of crazy.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like you do a lot of talking to yourself in your head.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but but look, um, it's it's super important.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know how I could set up my year for success and be intentional because when you plan, your behavior should be intentional and map back to the plan.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it feels weird, but you should absolutely take it seriously and do it.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, um, Cam, you know this from being in an EOS-esque organization for many years.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: Your environment is really key.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't overcomplicate it.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: I went to my favorite coffee shop because I like the vibes.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I can think and be creative there.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: I went there for four hours.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't do a whole day.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: I just did a compressed because it's it's just me.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't have lots of employees and lots of rocks.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I did a compressed kind of annual planning in four hours in my favorite coffee shop.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I run my practice on EOS, so that is my business operating system.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: And my agenda had kind of these parts.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I did do a check-in with myself.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, I'm not verbalizing out loud, I'm just talking to myself in my head, but I really did reflect on like what were my personal professional bests over the last year?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what do I feel like worked well for me?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what's not working yet for me?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: This is how I think about building the firm.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I did review my VTO and my KPIs.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: The VTO review took so much longer than I thought because I actually, because this is my business and I am the entrepreneur now.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like it, there's it hits different, and you need to sit with it and make sure that your core values are really something that resonate for you and other people you may bring into the firm or partners you may want to work with.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you got to make sure your focus is there.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: You got to make sure you understand the bigger picture.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: I don't look out in 10 years, I can only see in fives.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not that big of a visionary yet.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I really made sure that all of the vision side was there.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: The traction side is equally important, Cam.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, especially if you're newer to your practice, I really, really, really wanted to know my numbers.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I sat down, I built out my KPIs, I I actually looked, I spent some time looking at my PL and making sure that what I was forecasting actually did map back to my one year and kind of two year plan and forecasts.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so after I reconciled kind of the plan and the number side, I then went over and did a classic IDS session.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: That took up about, you know, that's probably the second half of my time.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: And from IDS, I set up my rocks.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: So overall really helped me think through and prioritize what's important to me, not only for this year, but in this 90-day world I'm about to go spend time and execute in.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, I mean, it was it was super helpful.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um so here's here's an example.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: I know for myself, like I need some guardrails around rocks.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I chose consciously that when I did my IDSing, you can, Brandon, because I know myself, you can only take two rocks.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: And if I hadn't taken the time to think through what I'm building in the future, I wouldn't have accepted this one rock I have, which is around, I want to stand up to AI agents.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Here's why.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: So growth loves speed, right?
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Movement is life, but I'm just one guy, but I'm out there competing with a lot of people that can move a lot faster than me.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do I be agile?
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: How do I move quickly and with quality?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: I have to have talent and efforts.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just happening to experiment through AI agents.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, specifically around brainstorming and copywriting.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: How do I have something that helps me think through and process thoughts as a thought partner from a different lens?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: How do I use it to do deep research to make sure the things I'm thinking and talking about are sound?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then how do I have a copywriting agent, not to put words in my mouth, but help me get 70% there, help me think through the hard parts.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I wouldn't have taken that rock if I hadn't sat down to think through kind of the long-term vision for myself.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought it was a priority, so I accepted it.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's uh a theme that continues to come up as I've talked to other ambitious coaches and consultants and fractional executives and whatnot.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: But is it's this idea of practicing what you preach, right?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: If you're going to go in and lead your clients through these kinds of in-depth sessions where we're thinking deeply about what we want from our business and what the goals are gonna be and start to build IDS and build rocks out of those things, why in the world would you not practice that yourself and get reps for yourself?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that is a mark of an ambitious coach when you're actually doing that work.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: My former coach, Colin Talley, who was a guest that we've already released an episode on, he does that with his firm.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: Now he's got multiple coaches under his firm now.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: So he, you know, a little bit bigger than you, but even when he was by himself, he was doing that work.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: And as crazy as it might seem, you know, working through there's some value to that of practicing what you're preaching because then you're holding yourself to the same standard and accountability that you are with your clients.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: So bravo to you.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: But you also mentioned that you you did all of this on 90.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously both of us used to work at 90, so we know it really well.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: But can you talk a little bit about, I mean, the really from more of a value standpoint of being able to have your practice in a in a tool like 90 and how that's helped you?
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, running a business, whether you're a solopreneur or you're running, you know, a hundred million dollar business, it's not easy.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: There's lots of things you have to keep track of.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I feel like if you're intentionally running a business on something like a business operating system, which I know people like you and me are cam, 90 is just like the perfect solution to go do those things.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: It centralizes everything I need to run my business.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I am in the discipline of every single day when I wake up, the first application I fire up is 90 because I'm I'm keeping score.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm often logging issues, I'm checking my KPIs, I'm checking my milestones and my progress against my rocks.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um look, if you are an ambitious coach, I'm gonna Kim, I want to tie this back to something you said earlier about um practicing what you preach.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: But I've come to believe that the best clients that you could work with are ambitious entrepreneurs and they are sophisticated.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: There is a difference between your average customer who you you may win them, but you'll, I'm sure if you're listening to this, you've won clients that you wish you didn't because they are a dumpster fire.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: You had to drag them in, now you're dragging them around.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: They're they're not uh taking accountability seriously, they're not listening to you, and yet they bitch about not being the organization or having as much growth as they thought they could or should, right?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: Those are not sophisticated clients.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason you might not be winning sophisticated clients is because you yourself as a coach are not and conducting yourself like a sophisticated, ambitious coach.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: So when you use a tool like 90, you're you're literally, this is the act of you proving that you practice what you preach, everything is centralized.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: You can keep focused on the things that matter most.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Stay true to your core.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: And frankly, Cam, one of the things I love about 90 most, because I'm in sales, like so much of this is keeping score and it's just it's part science, part art.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I love the science part because man, I'm just keeping score.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: I have some predictions in Q1 for how I'm going to perform.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: How many times do I have to swing the bat?
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think I know, but until I track 13 weeks worth of data and that data tells me a story.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really know.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: And dude, you can go get lots of decentralized tools.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: I could go use Excel, I could use Word, I could use PowerPoint, I could use Notion, and I could try to connect these things together, but it's a fucking nightmare.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm not in the business of IT, man.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in the business of growth and sales.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: So for 10 bucks a month on the lowest end, I can solve all of that for me.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's short-sighted if you if you pass on it.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: No, totally.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, then you're also getting those reps in of as you maybe want to utilize that for your clients, you're getting a deeper understanding of how the platform works in the client perspective.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then the accountability, because you and I actually have an accountability group together where we actually run level tens together and hold each other to a standard for our practices that is only beneficial.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I know there are many coaches, EOS implementers, coaches, consultants.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, even in Greenville here, Andrew Geisel, who um his episode released actually uh today, the day of this recording, um, it's out.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: But um, he has a group where he's got a, I believe there's a sales acceleration um guy in there, a focus CFO guy in there, um, a marketing uh specific person, and then an EOS implementer.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: And they have a joint 90 account that they meet.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think they meet on a monthly basis.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: It might be quarterly, but I'm pretty sure it's monthly, where they go in and hold each other accountable.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Are you hitting, are you making your calls like you're supposed to?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Are you going doing events or whatever you've set yourself for?
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: Are you rocks?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's level of this, they they almost have this trusted partner circle that they have in the geographical location, which is such a great use case because I mean, it is lonely to be an advisor, a coach out there.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so utilizing technology, and I love what you said about simplifying, because there's a technology and AI tool out there for everything nowadays, and it's exhausting because it then pretty soon you've got$300 a month of subscriptions, and you're like, wait a second, I haven't even gotten a client yet.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: What's going on here?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's it's it's so easy to swallow, you know,$10 here,$20 here.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: But when you can simplify and get a comprehensive tool and kind of work out of that, man, it simplifies things so much easier for you.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I appreciate you sharing all that.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh, you know, obviously we're a little biased and and have more experience in 90, right?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but we wouldn't use it if it wasn't a great tool, right?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it it makes sense and it fits in the work that we're doing as coaches and then translate into the client work.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and like what you said there, Cam, I just want to touch on it for a second.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like 90 is a tool, but it's just that it's a tool.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think that there's this discipline that you as an ambitious coach are going to have to develop.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm speaking to myself, frankly, when I say this, there's a discipline that you have to develop, but man, like capturing and documenting everything you're doing as far as performance goes inside, like it helps reinforce the ritual.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: It helps reinforce the discipline.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: So while it is just a tool, it is a powerful tool because it's purpose built.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: Gosh, I feel like I'm like going to the old days of selling this thing.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm trying to take off my 90s sales out that I'm so used to.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: But I do believe it.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like I genuinely believe it.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I've seen it happen for companies and I've seen it happen for our coach partners.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's translate a little bit into some of the business development strategies, if you Well, because as we all know, uh, you know, you pull the trigger and you start your own practice, and you're so excited, and you've nailed down your vision and you got your offering, and you're so excited to get in the session room and start working with clients.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: There's a little step in there that you got to make sure you do what a lot of coaches and advisors get tripped up on, which is business development.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk a little bit because you have been very, very intentional about how you've built, because there's lots of different ways you could take this, and you can get stretched real thin because you think you got to do all of them, but you've actually gone the opposite of that, and you've actually just chose, all right, here, I'm staying in these lanes.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: Can you talk a little bit about the mentality behind that?
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've learned this is if you're a salesperson watching this, like this is not a shock to you, but like spray and pray is tough.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: I've found in my career that it's much better to have a smaller but more tightly defined ideal customer profile than it is to try to serve everyone.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: If in your mind you're watching this and you're an ambitious coach and you're thinking, man, everyone's my audience, you're fucking wrong.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: And you should rethink that statement in your head.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there are certain people that are just better for your offerings.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: So when it comes to like building my ICP for my practice, I look, I had the ad the advantage of getting trained by Alex Goldfane, who invented the outgrow selling system.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: So at the time of this recording, there's about 90-ish um outgrow advisors inside of the community.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: There's about 500 companies that have been professionally um the system, the selling system has been installed.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: So they've collected an amazing job of collecting data.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: So they have seen over the last 22, 23 years, like, where does this offering, this product that we're delivering, who does it best serve?
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because while, yes, like most industries can be served by this.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: And most business, like a$1 million retail business may be served by this.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: A$20 million manufacturing company that sells products is probably even better served.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I had the advantage of learning this from Alex, like learning what the ICP is.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have limited time and limited bandwidth, I want to make sure I'm being very tight on who I um execute my time with and turn into customers.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because again, I don't want to spend three months chasing a million dollar revenue client.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not throwing shade at a million dollar client, but you know, if they if they only have a million dollars in revenue, they're probably gonna be on the lower end of my pay band.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: They're probably not gonna be as sophisticated in their their maturity as an entrepreneur and their business maturity as far as operations go.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna have to do invest a lot of time with them to get them there.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: And my actual profit potential is much lower versus if I chase the bigger um business with greater sophistication.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense, Cam?
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I'm I'm totally tracking.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: That makes, I mean, getting clear on, I mean, I think that ties straight into vision offering and business development because you're thinking it's a very, it's not exactly a linear thing, but it almost, I mean, the journey is you're getting clear on who you are, and then you're figuring out and packaging your services and ICP falls into that, and then you've got to go execute on finding those people.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it is a journey.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so seeing you walk through that's super helpful.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, can let me let me back up and and and kind of clarify one thing.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about what ideal customer profile is, right?
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because I just want to make sure, like, it's not that you shouldn't work with people who aren't ideal.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like if somebody fit fits into your ideal customer profile, that should make you feel good.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: You should put in the cycles to go make that work.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but if you're like me in the beginning, I may work with a million-dollar revenue client because I need to get some reps and I need to get some clients.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like that might be a thing I do.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: A while back, probably last year, there's a sales acceleration advisor, um, Cam that we both know, his name's um Rafi Yardimian.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: And part of his early stage success was he said, look, I don't say no a lot.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: But the people I can't directly help because it doesn't make sense, I will still help them in other ways by connecting them to great resources that could help fill the gaps or or solve their pains that I just can't do.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and he said, What's funny is when you do that enough, you may not work with that customer today, but you may solve one problem two or three years from now, they'll remember you did that and call you back and they may be ready.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: So getting tight on your ICP isn't about saying, no, I don't want to ever talk to you or see you again, like you're you're a waste of time for me.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's more about look, I'm not the best to help you right now, but I still want to help you.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: Here's a different way I can help you.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: And like please stay in touch.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let me know if that was useful to you.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I just want to clarify that.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's that's really good.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it really does come down to almost the go-giver mentality where it's just, hey, even if it's not me, I'm gonna point you in the right direction.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that just had the universe just has a way of rewarding that.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like reciprocation is just written into the fabric of the universe, uh, because that does tend to come around.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a good clarification.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate you saying that.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: But can you talk?
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, let's get let's get real tactical.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, what was your strategy for kind of getting your practice off the ground?
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so in a world where I can do anything, but I can't do everything because I'm limited by time and patience and all that kind of stuff, there's kind of three, I call them levers.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: There's three levers that I'm going to pull over the next 90 days to go drive revenue.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: So the first lever, being that I'm an outgrow advisor, I really want to practice what I preach.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I have a proactive call cadence.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: So every day I call 20, and this could be a mixture of people that I know, whether they're past clients, um, they're they're they're connectors, these could be cold prospects.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: I call 20 people every single day, five days a week.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because that's what we teach our customers and pick up in in outgrow and in the book pick up on its own.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: And if I'm going to be challenging and motivating and pushing my clients to do it, I better be practicing, like you said, Cam, practicing what I preach.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I um wrote a hundred handwritten letters with a really simple message, and I set it to um my top 100 targets list.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: These are people that I've researched my ICP, they directionally fit my ICP, and I want to do, I believe I can help you and I want to go, I want to partner with you and serve you.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Part of the reason I did handwritten letters and I'm picking up the phone is because in a world where everything in AI is making it easier to create digital noise, AI can write your email, they can write your LinkedIn notifications.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, all that stuff is largely filtered out.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: So in a world where everyone's zigging, I want to zag.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's kind of the principle behind Outgrow, is let's let's go back to the traditional things because I guarantee you no one is taking the time to handwrite letters, put postage on it, write a meaningful message, and send it to you, and then pick up the phone, the heaviest thing for people in the universe, and call you.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: So that's part of my strategy.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: And bro, if I get 1% conversion rate, if I got one client out of the hundred, which is I think is probably more than reasonable, this thing has like a 14,000 times ROI.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's insane, right?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that's lever one is I'm doing the outgrowth strategy.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm practice what I preach.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, lever two is I'm not surprisingly, I'm leveraging my referral network.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I have about 20 connectors who know love and trust me, and I know love and trust them.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: They have graciously agreed.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm I've I've done the referral process I did at RTG with EOSIs on myself.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I said, look, here's a bunch of people it looks like you know that I may want to know.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: Who do you know well enough to introduce me?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I give them all the scripting to bridge those intros.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I think between that strategy, if I net two clients out of that in the next, you know, three to six months, man, I'm at three clients already.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: In an outgrow, that's huge.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'd be sitting, sitting fat and happy.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then the third strategy I'm pulling is really around speaking engagements.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, very much like EOS has a talk, Outgrow equips me with a talk and it's super sexy.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna go work with my network and organizations out there that I believe in to go do this talk.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's a one-to-many approach.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: So instead of doing the last two have been very one-to-one, I have a strategy that's more one-to-many or or one-to-few.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I I have the capacity to do those things.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's it's important for you as you design your strategies to know yourself and know what you like doing.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: While I don't love picking up the phone and calling a lot of people cold, listen, man, I'll do it because perseverance is key.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: I got to practice what I preach.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, doing referrals, doing public speaking, I love that shit.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not a problem for me.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's how I really designed the go-to-market strategy.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if I do all of those things this quarter, I don't know that I'll win much, but I'll tee up for a fat Q2 and I'll probably close three clients in Q2.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: And if I rinse and repeat in Q2, there's this kind of like compounding snowball effect.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: So if I could pick up two to three clients in Q2, two to three clients in Q3, two to three clients, I mean, that's how I'm gonna get my goal.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: My goal this year is five clients.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, five clients would put me in an amazing position.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: There is really a flywheel approach.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: I love that metaphor where it's it's you you start to get it moving.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it does take, it takes a lot of momentum to get that thing moving.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: But once it catches, boom, that thing's moving.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so you're right.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I I've stolen that.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you're the one that I'm sure someone told you this uh way back, but the lever approach is such a great way to put that because you know you're you're looking at a big dashboard in front of you, and there's all sorts of levers you could pull.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: LinkedIn, events, you know, speaking, all like all these different things, networking groups, and and you have to figure out which levers you want to pull.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: And you keep, I mean, you try to pull all of them, but you're gonna stretch yourself way too thin, you're gonna be exhausted.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: So getting hyper-focused, yeah.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: Can I I just wanna, I feel like I would do this audience a service if I talked about one thing, and that's LinkedIn automation.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: I can you know this, Cam, because you've been in this space.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like we did this at 90, we did a lot of LinkedIn automation, and weirdly enough, it it served us well.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: But knowing your audience coaches, as you're watching this, uh again, think about your ideal customer profile.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: I am always skeptical and trepidatious about LinkedIn automation.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I hear a lot of people say, Yeah, it booked me some meetings, like it got me some action with some people.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: But what I always hear after that is like, well, they weren't really a good fit, or they drove me along for a long time.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: So just be, I'm not saying don't do it.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just saying that a lot of early stage coaches that have, you know, between zero to three clients and they're they don't want to do the hard thing, which is pick up the phone, they often revert back to, well, this is scalable.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: LinkedIn is scalable.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: It could waste your time.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like you could actually net negative because you you are spending time chasing things that aren't likely to be a good fitter or even close for you.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: So just be careful with LinkedIn automation.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, 100%.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's a really good word.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate you jumping in and saying that because and it's it is funny.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: And and we you and I are actually probably very similar in network that we have, just given the the role that we had at 90.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I am connected to a lot of coaches, consultants, fractional executives, and advisors, because that was my job at 90 is to find them.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so did a good job of that and grew my network in that.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: And what that gives you and I is unique perspective because now we're connected to a lot of them.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: And what's fascinating is you can see most often it's that group that's on LinkedIn because they're the ones trying to use that tool.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: The busy business owner is not on LinkedIn.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they they might have a presence and they might check it every once in a while, but it's not the same as a coach.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: So when it's almost this cannibalization that you see with advisors and coaches on LinkedIn because it's they're posting something and then others in their network or their, you know, groups are commenting on it and it's just, oh, that's great.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's a really good insight.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: And they're all just trying to find clients, and it's not serving necessarily anything.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: It maybe helps the ego because you get some engagement, but it I don't know if I think it's a very wise thing that you're saying is don't necessarily lean into that.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it can be a very great tool, and we've absolutely we have plenty of episodes where we talk about that on this show of how to use LinkedIn because it's the biggest professional networking platform on the planet.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: So learn how to use it, but I think you're right.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I also think, especially leaning into the AI aspect of it, we all know.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's plenty of people we could name drop if we wanted to, but that use AI-related commenters that just put a very formulaic response in every single comment.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just like, come on, like be a human, connect with people.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's how business is done.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that's one of the things I do like about the outgrow philosophy is it it brings that human center approach back to it.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: You're picking up the phone, that's not an AI tool doing that.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I guess maybe in a couple, I mean, they do have AI, but um, you know, it is a very human approach.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: Can we can we tangent about our mutual BFF Tom Brinson for a second?
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: So um we have a friend who works at 90, his name's Tom Brinson, great guy, sharp cat.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Tom has this unique disdain for auto commenters.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: And he's always like, dude, this is bullshit.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: Who does this person think they're fooling?
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: And what's funny is I used to think that I used to kind of be on the side of the eye that Tom, like they spent millions of dollars on this product for a reason, man.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're fooling a lot of people.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: But now that I've been paying attention and I've been like watching, I'm like, this is really bad.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think everyone got super excited about the hype of what it could do.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: And now it's just like automated trash.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's actually diluting it for me, it's diluting the value of the comments section.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's like, yeah, and funny, because we both know and love Tom.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, Tom, if you're watching this, you were right, we were wrong.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, don't love me into that.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was wrong.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: I was wrong.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: I was wrong, Tom.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh no, no.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, I mean, we could have a whole nother episode about that because you know my dissertation was built on comment sections.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: I have a lot of knowledge, passion, and uh beliefs about comment sections.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think it what it does to take it from the coach's perspective, I think what it does is it actually backfires on you because it discredits your perception in the market when you do that, that it's, oh, this person is quote unquote so busy or has to leverage AI, it's not real.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas you know, when someone reaches out and it's a genuine heartfelt comment, you can see that as humans, we have the emotional intelligence to understand that.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what connects with people.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think if if anything, if you're listening to this and you're utilizing that, you know, I'm not telling you go cold turkey and turn it off, but like try to figure out a way that humanizes it because that's human on human is what sells.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so the more we can lean into that, the better.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I wanted to transition into one last question about business development, because I'm trying to trying to think from a coach's perspective.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe they feel really scattered in in their business development.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: They're just not sure where to start.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: They see so-and-so doing this and so-and-so doing this, and they're just trying to do all things.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: They're just throwing darts at the wall, hoping to hit something, right?
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say, what would be the first thing that they should do to either clarify or simplify their tactics to get more focused?
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: What would you recommend?
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think the good news, Cam, is I think most people hate complexity and they want to default to simplicity.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: So if you find yourself scattered and thinking about, hey, I just I read this latest article or saw this latest LinkedIn post on this new technology that can do XYZ, reflect on yourself, like know yourself.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Colin Talley, who you've mentioned a few times, Cam, um, you know, shared with me kind of his business development philosophy that I that I take to heart.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, look, you need to know yourself.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if you are not a person that's gonna, if if the thought of doing cold calls, like truly cold calls, like these people don't know you, you don't know them, and you have to pick up the phone and make 20 dials a day, and you are not used to being that person, that work will kill you.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: It will drain your soul, you'll run from it, and then quarters will pass.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and you're gonna, you're gonna rethink why are you doing this in the first place.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I think if you know yourself, like if on the flip side, if you don't like doing the the cold outreach, if you are a person that loves speaking, like that's your thing.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: If you can get in front of a room, if and if you have the know-how and wherewithal to coordinate and rate arrange a room and bring people into a room, um, you should go do that work.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: So find and understand what energizes you and make that part of your business development strategy.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: I say that, but I encourage every single person here to go find, pick up the phone and sell and read it.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because when people think of the phone, this thing right here, it feels really, really heavy because we always default to this idea that when we're calling people, it's cold calling.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, or because they don't know us or or we don't know them.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: But I guarantee you, when you read this book, it will change your perspective on who you're going to call.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like who is the list of people?
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: You likely already know lots of people that already know you.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: So whether you are doing business with them now and you can sell them more things, maybe you've worked with them in the in the past and maybe they can work with you again.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: Call those people.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you've pitched them before and they've said no, but time has passed.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like they still know you.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: Those sort of things, Cam, those sort of lists are not cold.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so don't think that picking up the phone is just you calling on net new people who have never heard of you before.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: You can always call on you know connectors in your referral network and that list I just shared.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: So please get the phone, pick up, um, pick up the phone and sell.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: It'll change how you think about business development.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's a huge recommendation.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think the last thing I would share, Cam, while I'm I'm tangenting, because I'm going through this exercise right now.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think it helps if you start thinking about yourself like you are a sophisticated executive seller.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because that's what you are doing.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you're a coach and you're running a practice, but how do you think that business starts in the first place?
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: It all starts with the selling activity.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I went through this realization at Outgrow where I was like, man, I've been thinking too small.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've been thinking about like from a from an ICP targeting to uh like how I would sell it and position it and and pricing.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like you have to start thinking bigger, thinking more like a sophisticated salesperson, because again, the ideal customer profile you want is that of a sophisticated, ambitious executive.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: So start thinking about yourself like that so you can sell confidently to them.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, those are two great points.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think there is um that that mindset of um I heard it explained to me when I back a long, long time ago and I did some Sandler selling training.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: They call it equal business stature, where you have to go in with that mindset of like, no, we're we're on the same same playing field.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for specially younger coaches and consultants and advisors, that's that's such a great word to to have that mindset because you are.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: You you have value that you're bringing and you've got to believe in that and go after that.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think the picking up the phone, I mean, just that's such a great read.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I we we both have read it and it it transformed.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, you have to get to the realization, I mean, what's the worst that's gonna happen?
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna leave a voicemail?
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's maybe the best case scenario for some people, you know, that uh that's easy and it takes 30 seconds, or they pick up and it's just not a good time.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe, you know, truly worst case scenario, they're a little bit pissed off.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: All right, hey, sounds like it's not a good time.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: We'll catch up.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: What's another good time to talk?
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, how about tomorrow at 12?
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: You've got another meeting booked.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's just you, you, our brains play such a crazy, we go to the worst case scenario, and it's like you start to reckon with that, it's like, actually, it's not really that bad.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just, it's amazing what our brains can trick us into.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: The the cadence, the magic cadence is call, voicemail.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: Most nine times out of ten, when you call somebody, you'll leave a voicemail and follow up with a text.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: All the meetings I booked today came through, the confirmation came through as a text.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: I actually didn't pick up anyone on the phone, but I did the call, voicemail, text combo.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: Boom.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and oh, I dropped my calendar link in there too, yeah, to book with me and booked.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and then they said, you know, it was like the one was like, hey, I'm in Germany, like, can't talk, but I'm next week, let's talk Thursday.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: Booked, you know, like simple.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's so simple.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: Man, Brandon, this has been awesome.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate you uh coming on and kind of giving us a sneak peek behind the curtain as you're getting this practice off the ground.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: I always like to ask guests two questions, and those that have paid attention to the uh the podcast so far know which ones are coming.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: But if you had to go back and give, let's call it rookie brandon, you know, 20 plus years ago, whatever, um what advice would you give yourself just starting out?
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_00: I would say.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: 22 year old good looking fit Brandon.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um because I was back in those days.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I would tell myself that um don't take things so personally.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think mo like there's a lot I know a lot of the people that are ambitious and they're high performing A players, like when their ideas are rejected or their their performance drops for a week, uh talented people are often the hardest on themselves.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I would I would say like, yo man, like just because you missed your KPI by like 10% this week, like it that doesn't mean you're a piece of shit.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like you could go figure that like it just it was a blip.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: It was a blip in the in the big radar.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I would I would be easier on myself and remind myself that I'm playing a long game and I'm not even at halftime game.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm 37 years old at the time of this recording.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm like at a third time.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'll statistically live to be a hundred, you know.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like I got lots of game time left in me.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still a baby.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like I can I can but I I have time to figure this out and I'm really proud.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: Be proud of where you're at.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I would tell myself.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's a good word.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's easy to get into that that trap.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I appreciate you sharing that.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's good.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then second question, uh, which is a little bit more, you know, more current.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just let's what is a lesson that you are in the middle of learning in this moment right now?
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I I um let's tell you a story about my brother really quick.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: So my brother, like me and my brother didn't grow up poor, but my brother's had it hard, right?
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like he's made life choices and he's really had to fight for uh a lot of things and work, work probably harder than he would have to to kind of maintain his his livelihood.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and when I watch him think about money, like I don't mean to say this in like a classist way, but he thinks poor.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he thinks, like he doesn't think like he doesn't have 10x thinking.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I feel like I'm experiencing that a little bit right now.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like I would say I'm in like middle class poor, like I still think middle class.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: And as I try to elevate myself to think par to par with an executive who runs a twin a 10 to 20 million dollar organization, I have to start thinking uh differently.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: I have to start thinking big picture, I have to start thinking more sophisticated.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: And again, don't mean that in a classic way, but I'm just trying to tell a story.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like I need to start thinking like people who I want to help and aspire to be like, I gotta start thinking like them.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I noticed that at Outgrow when I did my certification because I was, you know, I was by far the youngest person in the room.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: I was by far the least accomplished person in the room.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I would say I was the hungriest.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: I was the most ambitious in the room because I feel like I have to fight my way to become like these cats.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: These are talented folks.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like one guy there sold like a he he sold a business at like a 20x multiple at 1.4 billion.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, I've never done that.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's insane.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and this guy's my peer.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is who I'm but it was so awesome because like that's who I'm like elevating myself.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: I put myself in a different room to change my mindset and to change my ambitions.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that's been super help healthy for me.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man, that's good.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's I mean, I think it's no matter where you are in life, I mean, take get put that guy that sold his company, he he could find somebody that well, so-and-so sold their company for 20 billion.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, we could play that game till the day we die.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so no matter where you're at in mindset and and true life stage, um, it's it's a good mental check to have that.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a good, that's a good word.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate you sharing that, man.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, dude, this has been so much fun.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's um I I should have mentioned this in the intro, but you know, Brandon and I on on paper are literally the same person.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's kind of scary.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, our Colby score is very similar.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_01: Our Myers Briggs is the exact same, our strengths finders are the exact same, our Enneagram is the exact same.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: Is our working genius?
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: What's your working genius?
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, inventor, inventive and galvanizing.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, me too.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it's it's and I'm sure people that are well versed in those can pick up on that.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I I just I appreciate Brandon as a friend and and I uh respect him and I am excited to see the growth that you experience uh both in your own practice and the work that you do with your clients.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for coming on the show and sharing, uh, sharing your insights and advice.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you you have a lot of good perspective, um, even though you're quote unquote young.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you you have a unique perspective because 90 afforded us the ability to talk to thousands of coaches and consultants and learn from the best and see the worst.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so what an advantage uh to go in and and build a practice with all that knowledge.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: So uh, but man, thank you for for coming on and sharing.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: I uh appreciate you.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, Cam.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: And when I say I love you, I hope you know I mean that.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you're my bro, man.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_00: I love you.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: Anything I could do to help, you let me know.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yes.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: No, I I love you too, man.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I am excited to um to see see both of our careers take off, man.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's fun.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_01: So, well, cool.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you for watching.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I know I took a lot away from this, um, thinking from a vision standpoint, thinking business development, tactically, those are always fun conversations.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for watching and stay tuned for more episodes.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's it for today's episode of the Ambitious Coach Lab.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: My hope is that something here helps you sharpen your craft and keep building a coaching practice you're proud of.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_01: Before we wrap, a quick thank you to our sponsor, 90.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: If you're coaching leadership teams, having your clients run their entire world in 90 truly elevates your work.
• 50:07
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• 50:12
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• 50:18
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• 50:26
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• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: Again, that's AC20 for 20% off.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for hanging out with me today.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Cam.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: Cheering you on as you grow your ambitious coaching practice.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see you next time.