Latest / The Parenting Podcast / Friends and Friendships (Pt. 1) | Ep. 23

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Friends and Friendships (Pt. 1) | Ep. 23 · The Parenting Podcast

• 1:01
  Cheryl: Welcome back to TPP.
• 1:03
  Cheryl: And, again, we're not in the podcasting studio instead, we are using zoom again to do some remote recording.
• 1:13
  Cheryl: And I will tell you, we've spent an entire week trying to iron out some of the issues that we've had with the technology and hoping that this one will work better.
• 1:24
  Cheryl: So please continue to bear with us.
• 1:27
  Cheryl: Christie is not here with us today, but we have Denae.
• 1:30
  Danae: Hi, and we miss Christie being with
• 1:31
  Cheryl: us.
• 1:32
  Ellen: Yes.
• 1:33
  Ellen: And I'm Ellen
• 1:34
  Cheryl: and
• 1:34
  Ellen: I'm seeing Cheryl in her closet, I guess he see all of her clothes, the colors that she liked.
• 1:40
  Ellen: And I noticed I haven't seen that shirt and more in that shirt before.
• 1:44
  Ellen: So you get to really know someone when they applied class from their
• 1:48
  Danae: closet, she's got some of my favorite colors in there.
• 1:53
  Cheryl: And so if y'all are wondering why one of the recommendations when you are recording is to be the, some more soundproofing instead of a big room.
• 2:04
  Cheryl: And so of course that's why studio is nice, but so I'm in here in my closet and then they, I think he would like some of these cars to name.
• 2:13
  Cheryl: I have some core colors, show you my cute little boots over here.
• 2:20
  Cheryl: Um, but y'all, can't burn it, those cause big feet.
• 2:23
  Ellen: Okay.
• 2:25
  Danae: So I said on zoom a lot, I do a lot of zoom for school.
• 2:30
  Danae: And then last night to celebrate my daughter's birthday, we decided to do a zoom party.
• 2:37
  Danae: And so she has, um,
• 2:39
  Cheryl: once
• 2:42
  Danae: it was Kaylie's Kaylie's 23rd birthday,
• 2:45
  Cheryl: 27.
• 2:46
  Danae: 23rd.
• 2:48
  Danae: And you believe that 23rd.
• 2:51
  Danae: And so we have a w my son lives in Austin and then one of my daughters lives in Denver.
• 2:57
  Danae: And so we did a zoom party, and I had this vision of all of our faces up on the big screen TV and this just showing how much I really don't know technology.
• 3:07
  Danae: Cause I thought we could all just be sitting in the living room each like honored are on phone or they're on computer.
• 3:13
  Danae: And then we'd all be like, kind of like the Brady bunch on this big TV.
• 3:17
  Danae: And we got
• 3:18
  Ellen: this echoing, it was horrible.
• 3:22
  Ellen: And I'm yelling to my mom in the living room and every new mom turned off
• 3:30
  Danae: and all the kids are like, this is starting out real.
• 3:32
  Danae: Are you fun?
• 3:35
  Danae: Cause I get all irritated.
• 3:37
  Danae: And so we ended up doing two devices, one in one in another room and then one in that room and had an amazing time.
• 3:44
  Danae: And Ethan, let us in Harry Potter trivia and Kaylee, of course one, because she knows all things.
• 3:50
  Danae: Harry potters
• 3:55
  Ellen: and Sue has really been.
• 3:57
  Ellen: During the lockdown and everything, even though there's so many technical things that tend to go wrong with zoom, we know, yes.
• 4:06
  Ellen: It's still amazing that we can talk to keep our friendships up because that's really hard when you don't get to hang out with friends right now or see
• 4:14
  Cheryl: them as well.
• 4:15
  Cheryl: Well, and I use it even something I like even better.
• 4:18
  Cheryl: My son and his family live in Mumbai India.
• 4:22
  Cheryl: And so I love zooming my grandchildren and, you know, it's a little bit better technology than FaceTime that distance and it's so much fun and I get to read to them and just kind of be with them.
• 4:36
  Cheryl: so that is my favorite use of zoom.
• 4:40
  Cheryl: So very thankful for technology
• 4:44
  Ellen: well, sometimes even in town.
• 4:46
  Ellen: It's nice.
• 4:46
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 4:47
  Ellen: Have zoom, you know, you can't, you know, I mean, I've zoomed with my kids who live in town before, for whatever reason their children are sick or whatever.
• 4:54
  Ellen: And when I at least can see them,
• 4:57
  Cheryl: and well, we're going to talk about friends today, uh, friends and friendship, and I had a bunch of moms send us questions So here we go.
• 5:05
  Cheryl: Let me start with the first one.
• 5:08
  Cheryl: And she says, hi, Cheryl.
• 5:11
  Cheryl: I have an in-home daycare where I want six little ones all day.
• 5:15
  Cheryl: My greatest issue involves my little girls from the ages of three to five.
• 5:20
  Cheryl: They start to be clicky and non-inclusive, they sort of turn on each other.
• 5:25
  Cheryl: There are four, four year old girls that I'm having specific problems with.
• 5:30
  Cheryl: Three of them will decide to play with dolls until the fourth friend.
• 5:34
  Cheryl: She can't play.
• 5:35
  Cheryl: And of course it hurts her feelings.
• 5:37
  Cheryl: The next day, the target will change and a different one will be left out on purpose.
• 5:41
  Cheryl: I feel like I repeat the same phrases over and over, but this cattiness continues.
• 5:46
  Cheryl: Where's this coming from?
• 5:48
  Cheryl: And what can I do to stop this drama?
• 5:50
  Ellen: Oh, I don't know, because that is a really huge question.
• 5:54
  Ellen: Especially among girls and women, we tend to really want to form cliques and, um, tend to leave people out, not even realizing it if ever you've gone to a new place.
• 6:08
  Ellen: And you're the new person as a military wife.
• 6:10
  Ellen: I know how that feels many times going into new places and trying to join new groups.
• 6:16
  Ellen: It does take awhile, even as an extrovert to kind of break into the already established group.
• 6:23
  Ellen: not an answer to the question, but
• 6:25
  Cheryl: I am a mom that has teenage children said the same thing.
• 6:29
  Cheryl: It is complicated.
• 6:31
  Cheryl: And I don't, I don't know what the answer is actually.
• 6:34
  Cheryl: Uh, she said, you know, I was hurt.
• 6:38
  Cheryl: Bye clicks growing up and I didn't have anybody helping me and I want to help my children, regardless of which side of the clinic they're Mon uh, if you take up for the excluded ones more often than not, you're shunned and rejected as well.
• 6:55
  Cheryl: So what do I say, or do I want my children to love others better and develop hearts to stop such unkindness and also walk through being excluded with, uh, with healthiness?
• 7:08
  Ellen: Also have, well, we also have a flip side, both as a human race and as individuals that we like to exclude people every organization has people that, you know, it just is kind of in our DNA.
• 7:23
  Ellen: It's a bad thing.
• 7:25
  Ellen: And we have to help our children to understand that it's really natural to have a small group of friends and then not shut the door and not want anyone else in.
• 7:35
  Cheryl: I was
• 7:35
  Danae: just wondering, I'd like to hear what you told your children.
• 7:39
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 7:40
  Ellen: And that was, uh, you know, that was probably a big part of our lives was when you moved 19 times in 30 years, your kids have to, as well as myself, start over again at every base and new home you come to.
• 7:54
  Ellen: So, you know, my answer was different for the introverts and the extroverts.
• 8:00
  Ellen: The extroverts seem to find it pretty easy to go down to the little park and say hello to a bunch of kids.
• 8:08
  Ellen: And the introverts were like, I don't know what to do.
• 8:11
  Ellen: I'm standing here all alone and no one's coming up to me.
• 8:15
  Ellen: So one of the things I said to my one introverted child, I said, well, watch what your sister does.
• 8:23
  Ellen: See how she does it and see, see what, you know, how she breaks into the circle.
• 8:29
  Ellen: And I said, that's going to take courage on your part because that's not natural for you to do that.
• 8:35
  Ellen: And, um, For these, those two girls, because they were actually best friends.
• 8:42
  Ellen: The extrovert would always pull the introvert in and that made it easy too.
• 8:49
  Ellen: So they always had the same group of friends all the way through high school, because they were so close in age and then their friends would be, so everybody just hung out together.
• 9:00
  Ellen: But I think as a mom, I can remember my daughter saying, mom, how do you make friends?
• 9:06
  Ellen: Well, I'm an extrovert.
• 9:07
  Ellen: I don't know.
• 9:08
  Ellen: I never even thought about that.
• 9:09
  Ellen: You just have some shit that's just extra root.
• 9:14
  Ellen: Tend to think that way, because I'm coming to you.
• 9:17
  Ellen: I want to be your friend.
• 9:19
  Ellen: You want to be my friend.
• 9:21
  Cheryl: That's not always true, but that's really good.
• 9:25
  Cheryl: Allen.
• 9:26
  Cheryl: I love it.
• 9:26
  Cheryl: One of our answers seems to be perpetually good conversations.
• 9:31
  Cheryl: You know, talking with them like DNA.
• 9:34
  Cheryl: You were talking about having conversations with our kids as they moved into things.
• 9:42
  Cheryl: Well, those things, my parents love me very much when I felt safe with them, but they didn't do what we just talked about.
• 9:51
  Cheryl: So when like my heart's broken over being excluded, uh, I couldn't remember cause I moved a whole lot to Ellen and I, I didn't have any help breaking in.
• 10:04
  Cheryl: And I was, uh, extroverted golden retriever puppy, uh, tall, and it just takes a while to break into the community.
• 10:14
  Cheryl: And so that's why I liked the idea of talking to your kids.
• 10:18
  Cheryl: I can remember.
• 10:19
  Cheryl: but for example, in our neighborhood, uh, and I don't know, fifth grade or something.
• 10:24
  Cheryl: So we had some other girls my age and we met and we were walking around and.
• 10:30
  Cheryl: I was just not, I didn't have a high radar for perceiving other people's signals.
• 10:38
  Cheryl: I would probably call me socially awkward, being too friendly, but I'm like, Ellen, I just thought everybody wanted to be friends.
• 10:46
  Cheryl: Why would you know, why would you exclude?
• 10:48
  Cheryl: And so they kind of said, oh, I'm really tired.
• 10:50
  Cheryl: I think I need to go home.
• 10:51
  Cheryl: Yeah, me too.
• 10:52
  Cheryl: And so, oh, okay.
• 10:54
  Cheryl: So I went home and it was a hilly neighborhood.
• 10:57
  Cheryl: So we lived at the end, down in the coal sack, surrounded by woods.
• 11:02
  Cheryl: And I got my dog and go, okay, I'll go walking with you.
• 11:05
  Cheryl: And when I came up the big hill, as I Crested the hill, I saw the two of them together walking that's
• 11:13
  Danae: so
• 11:13
  Cheryl: hard.
• 11:14
  Cheryl: I was devastated, absolutely devastated.
• 11:19
  Cheryl: There was nothing in my worldview that could understand that.
• 11:22
  Cheryl: Even if I hadn't liked him, I would have had him walk with me.
• 11:25
  Cheryl: So I went home and I was sobbing.
• 11:28
  Cheryl: But all my parents said, my dad particularly goes, don't worry about them.
• 11:34
  Cheryl: They don't matter.
• 11:35
  Cheryl: We love you.
• 11:36
  Cheryl: You're safe with us, which is good on a deep level, but it didn't give me any tools to cope with being excluded or how to see this, except them versus us sort of.
• 11:55
  Cheryl: so what else, how else can we help our kids more than that?
• 12:00
  Ellen: I know that I always kind of almost required our kids to be friends with the kids.
• 12:07
  Ellen: No one liked that
• 12:10
  Danae: a lot too.
• 12:11
  Danae: Ellen.
• 12:12
  Danae: Yeah.
• 12:12
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 12:13
  Ellen: And I said, you know, look in the group who looks lonely and no one cares about.
• 12:18
  Ellen: Go make friends with them.
• 12:19
  Ellen: And I remember when our kids were, I think it was upper elementary or junior high.
• 12:25
  Ellen: There was this one kid that by everybody's standards was unlikeable and a nerd.
• 12:31
  Ellen: And I encouraged my kids to include them in everything.
• 12:35
  Ellen: And two days later, his mom comes to my door.
• 12:38
  Ellen: I'd never met her before with tears in her eyes.
• 12:41
  Ellen: And she said, I just want to thank you.
• 12:43
  Ellen: Your kids are the only ones that have ever included my son in anything in the neighborhood.
• 12:51
  Ellen: And I really appreciate that.
• 12:53
  Ellen: And that was something that just really stuck with me.
• 12:57
  Ellen: I eventually told my daughters and my son, you know, the thing.
• 13:01
  Ellen: And I said, see, it's so important.
• 13:03
  Ellen: And they like the child.
• 13:05
  Ellen: He was fine.
• 13:05
  Ellen: We had them in our home.
• 13:07
  Ellen: The kids, there was nothing wrong with them, but for some reason, the bigger social group didn't want.
• 13:15
  Cheryl: Wow.
• 13:16
  Cheryl: I'm thinking back to
• 13:17
  Danae: the question about, you know, the moms saying about the, the four-year-olds and, uh, the ones that get excluded, and I'm really curious what you all think about, what do you say to that little kid who's being excluded?
• 13:31
  Ellen: What are your thoughts?
• 13:32
  Cheryl: That's tough, particularly that little cause the mama bear in me wants to say exactly what my father said to me.
• 13:40
  Ellen: would say more than that.
• 13:43
  Ellen: They may get my hands on that.
• 13:48
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 13:48
  Ellen: I
• 13:48
  Danae: mean, I'm really curious.
• 13:49
  Danae: That's why I asked, because I'm imagine a scenario.
• 13:53
  Danae: Do you say to the little one?
• 13:55
  Danae: Yeah.
• 13:56
  Danae: You're kind of like your parents did Cheryl, you know, you're loved, you are valuable.
• 14:02
  Danae: You're, you're worth, you know, having good friendships with people that love you and to belong.
• 14:08
  Danae: But if you, but if they're not going to exclude you, go in, find something else that you want to play with.
• 14:12
  Danae: I mean, that's a hard situation that they're in a daycare in there
• 14:16
  Cheryl: well, in that place, she has some control.
• 14:19
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 14:20
  Cheryl: Like if it's happening on your home or you can see it, you can do it.
• 14:25
  Cheryl: But for example, when they're in school or extracurricular activities or church or whatever it is, because the clinic problem, like I said, it comes from all the ages of moms, um, and the moms themselves.
• 14:40
  Cheryl: And so.
• 14:42
  Cheryl: Older kids.
• 14:43
  Cheryl: Good conversation, little ones, I guess those beginning conversations about how we love others and, um, that we want to have this develop and I want to help you develop a heart that loves others and doesn't exclude because Alan, you mentioned earlier, there just seems to be something inside of us that we want to split it.
• 15:09
  Cheryl: And I think it's actually that deeper thing we want to belong and we're insecure.
• 15:14
  Cheryl: So excluding someone, I don't know if y'all are a Dr.
• 15:17
  Cheryl: Seuss fan, but one of his favorite books to me that I like is Yertle the turtle.
• 15:25
  Cheryl: And so you're the turtle marvelous me for, I am the king of all that I see.
• 15:30
  Cheryl: And so by getting the other turtles to build them up higher, he felt more confident and he felt empowered.
• 15:37
  Cheryl: And so I think that's really the.
• 15:41
  Cheryl: we
• 15:41
  Danae: draw, we draw someone close to us because we're feeling insecure.
• 15:45
  Danae: So if you think about that child that's drawing one or three children close to them, they had this tight-knit group.
• 15:53
  Danae: So they, they feel stronger and more secure.
• 15:56
  Danae: And then there's those ones that are feeling left out as we, how I'm kind of seeing that.
• 16:02
  Cheryl: I was trying to give my kids a bigger picture of.
• 16:05
  Cheryl: Understanding to bring down the walls of them versus us to the one who's the whatever charisma and social group power struggle is that person, whether they're being kicked out of the group, instead of there being the enemy, trying to understand a little more a little better, so they're not hurt and they don't say that's them, and this is us.
• 16:31
  Cheryl: Yeah,
• 16:32
  Danae: it makes me think about, you know, what it is to be a friend.
• 16:35
  Danae: But before we jump into that, I mean, I remember Cheryl when our girls were all our kids, we had we're friends.
• 16:46
  Danae: Spend a lot of time together.
• 16:48
  Danae: Very close friends.
• 16:49
  Danae: Yeah.
• 16:49
  Danae: Like all weekend, like they will have spent all weekend together and they're like one more night.
• 16:54
  Danae: Can we spend one more night with each other?
• 16:56
  Danae: And then it was time to go to a birthday party or to play with other friends at the park and share all you had.
• 17:06
  Danae: I remember, especially, I think I learned it from you.
• 17:08
  Danae: I remember saying it often to my kids too, that you kids have spent a lot of time together and you're very good friends.
• 17:17
  Danae: But now that you go to be with other friends, spend time with them.
• 17:23
  Danae: Don't in fact, I mean, I think it was even, we don't really want, and they were younger, you know, we would say we don't even really want you sitting by each other or, you know, walking arm and arm into the party because we were saying, you know, their friendship was secure.
• 17:38
  Danae: It's time
• 17:38
  Ellen: now to.
• 17:40
  Danae: Enjoy and to make other people feel good.
• 17:46
  Danae: And just to extend your friendship to other people.
• 17:50
  Danae: And my kids still, still will talk about that and that they were so glad we taught them that.
• 17:55
  Danae: Wow.
• 17:56
  Danae: Think about others to think of others in that you can have a couple of really good close friends, but there's different levels of friendships.
• 18:05
  Danae: You know, you had, you can have really close friendships, but then you can also have more acquaintances.
• 18:10
  Danae: We, I know I, I experienced that as an
• 18:13
  Cheryl: adult.
• 18:15
  Cheryl: Wow.
• 18:16
  Cheryl: I mean, I don't remember saying it until you brought it, brought it up, but I do know, I felt that mentality and I did work on my kids with that.
• 18:25
  Cheryl: I I'm, I I'm glad that we did that today trying to help them, uh, bring others in.
• 18:36
  Cheryl: Uh, you said a word though, and I think it's maybe part of this.
• 18:41
  Cheryl: Answered to the why you said they were secure with each other.
• 18:46
  Cheryl: And so maybe that may be inside that it's not a mean thing, but it's like the things that our hierarchy of needs that we want to all have, one of them is to belong.
• 19:00
  Cheryl: So what do y'all think, even we can see it in a three and four year old that, um, insecurity as they're in relationships and also that they want to belong.
• 19:14
  Ellen: I know one of my solutions for things like that was we invited those kids over to the house.
• 19:21
  Ellen: We would have, I'd say, okay, you know, it's the main girl invite the mean girl.
• 19:28
  Ellen: And if the mean girl came, it softens everything because you break them out of the group.
• 19:36
  Ellen: Cause when we get in group situations, we will do things that we wouldn't do with individuals.
• 19:41
  Danae: Yeah.
• 19:42
  Danae: It's a power struggle.
• 19:43
  Danae: Exactly.
• 19:44
  Danae: And
• 19:44
  Ellen: you, and you, if, if you're with some, if you're not a mean kid, but if you're in a group when people are being mean, even if you don't say anything, you've still been co-opted and you're participating in that.
• 19:55
  Ellen: But if you pull the main girl out and you, and I just learned that as a kid, okay.
• 19:59
  Ellen: That's the main girl make friends with her and then it dissipates not always, but most of the time it dissipates and that works in preschool all the way into adult.
• 20:11
  Ellen: Was I to have you here?
• 20:13
  Ellen: You're included.
• 20:14
  Ellen: And that seemed to, I know that sounds simple, but kindness sometimes
• 20:20
  Cheryl: works
• 20:20
  Danae: Yeah.
• 20:21
  Danae: And I wanted to go back to, and just say, to speak into your story, Cheryl.
• 20:26
  Danae: You know, first of all, you know, your parents and what they said to you, I think that is it's a big deal.
• 20:34
  Danae: And it made me so happy to know that your parents spoke the words of that you belonged with them and that they loved you no matter what, because I think as parents, that is a big part that we play is in our relationship with our children.
• 20:51
  Danae: The other part that you said you were missing, which I hear both of you talking a lot about is the training that you did with your children.
• 21:00
  Danae: And as we were thinking about friendships for today, I thought about that.
• 21:05
  Danae: I was, I think I was pregnant or my first, first born, uh, you know, as little and I've found you're just in different resources on friendship because I knew the struggles I.
• 21:18
  Danae: As a kid, as a teenager, as a young adult with having good friendships.
• 21:23
  Danae: And I thought I need to learn better myself and I need to teach her how to be a friend.
• 21:28
  Danae: And I think that's something I keep hearing from you is that's part of our job is to help our children know what it is to be a good
• 21:36
  Ellen: friend.
• 21:38
  Cheryl: Well, let's talk about that because actually, a mom wrote and just said, exactly what you said today could you help me know how to teach my children about what a friend is and to know, how to be kind to everybody and get, make good choices and develop friendships.
• 21:56
  Cheryl: So there's the core question, but we haven't directly addressed.
• 22:00
  Cheryl: What is friend
• 22:01
  Ellen: that's the kind of hard question to answer.
• 22:04
  Ellen: I mean, not, well, what is a friend?
• 22:06
  Ellen: Because we're people everybody's different and everybody needs something different from friendship, whether a little kid or the adult, the friendship I might have with you guys might be different than I have with someone else.
• 22:21
  Ellen: And my expectations for friendship is important that I think that's maybe the biggest key is we examine what our expectations are in relation to.
• 22:32
  Ellen: You know, there's some people have very casual friendships with, and I enjoy it and it probably won't get any deeper.
• 22:38
  Ellen: And then I have really deep friends that I've had for a long time and we go deep and have different expectations in that friendship.
• 22:47
  Ellen: So I think of friendship as something that's alive and it has to be, it has to be nurtured and cared for regardless of what level it's on.
• 22:56
  Ellen: And I've always loved friendships.
• 22:58
  Ellen: Friendships have always been important to me.
• 23:00
  Ellen: And I remember my little sister who was a very shy person saying the same question.
• 23:08
  Ellen: She said, oh Ellen.
• 23:09
  Ellen: And I'm not saying this specifically.
• 23:11
  Ellen: She goes, you're so popular.
• 23:12
  Ellen: How did you get that?
• 23:14
  Ellen: And I said, I'm not popular.
• 23:16
  Ellen: I didn't think that I was, cause I didn't feel popular in school.
• 23:20
  Ellen: Cause we went to the same school together.
• 23:22
  Ellen: And I guess looking back from her point of view, she saw because I had all these friends, I didn't necessarily feel that way, but trying to help her the same way as my other friend, who was the introvert navigate, what is friendship and how do you do that?
• 23:37
  Ellen: To make the first step.
• 23:39
  Cheryl: That's really good.
• 23:41
  Cheryl: Somebody helped introduce me to a concept when we were newly married And I think it was a book he had, but just the concept called concentric circles of friendships.
• 23:53
  Cheryl: And so if you think of a circle and then a smaller circle inside of that core circle in there, because I think.
• 24:02
  Cheryl: And this is adults to moms that you think everybody needs to be the same level of friendship, or cause you said you set expectations.
• 24:12
  Cheryl: I think that's it because sometimes extroverts have a problem and their inner core might be 1500 people.
• 24:22
  Danae: I mean,
• 24:23
  Cheryl: as a child, that was me.
• 24:25
  Cheryl: I wanted everybody in the intercourse and, and that would have been helpful to me if my mom, parents had, or somebody had walked me through that, but this really helped me realize, and that there, the smaller, the circle, the fewer people should be in it and to evaluate your friendships, uh, and to help your children, but as moms that.
• 24:49
  Cheryl: The center core is treated, has different expectations, different intimacy level, and then it's different as it gets bigger and broader.
• 24:58
  Cheryl: And, uh, you will wear yourself out if you're trying to get someone on the second or third tier to keep up with them and to pour yourself out with the center core.
• 25:10
  Cheryl: And then the other side is you have to be really careful that you don't just stay to the center core and say, I've got my one or two friends.
• 25:19
  Cheryl: I don't need anybody else.
• 25:20
  Cheryl: Anyway.
• 25:21
  Cheryl: I just thought that picture.
• 25:22
  Cheryl: And because kids can be real visual, what begin teaching them that concept as they mature?
• 25:29
  Cheryl: What do y'all think?
• 25:31
  Danae: What you share with that small group is different than what you.
• 25:35
  Danae: With the outer group.
• 25:36
  Danae: I actually didn't get shown that until I went to a therapist about five years ago.
• 25:48
  Danae: yeah.
• 25:48
  Danae: So as we're talking about friendships, I'm thinking of my kids and, and over the years, the different conversations about someone that a child would call a friend and then they'd start describing, you know, how they felt about this person, their interactions, and, you know, a few times where a child would be sharing conversations they would be having, or how that friend would treat them and, you know, ignoring them one day.
• 26:19
  Danae: And then the next day, uh, you know, talking with them a lot, maybe in a group.
• 26:25
  Danae: And so I think one of the big qualities is respect, you know, no matter.
• 26:32
  Danae: Where that friend is in that concentric circle that Cheryl's talking about is that, you know, is there respect full behavior there?
• 26:43
  Danae: How does, how do you feel when you're with that friend?
• 26:46
  Danae: Do you leave that friendship feeling good?
• 26:49
  Danae: I mean, I, that's kind of a broad term, but do you feel good about yourself?
• 26:52
  Danae: Do you feel loved?
• 26:54
  Danae: Do you feel, uh, happy, you know, or do you leave that friendship playing with them or hanging out or texting, you know, which is happening now?
• 27:05
  Danae: How do you feel about yourself?
• 27:07
  Danae: Because I ran into some situations with my children, where they were friends with people that made them doubt themselves.
• 27:16
  Danae: Doubt if they you know, uh, had any good qualities about them at all.
• 27:21
  Danae: And so those were some hard conversations is I helped, you know, those children kind of separate a little bit from those friends because there wasn't mutual respect going on.
• 27:32
  Cheryl: That's really good to know because I'm thinking myself as a mom, that evaluation, because I'm thinking of someone and I realized it really wasn't a healthy friendship.
• 27:44
  Cheryl: We had moved sorted to the center core, but I didn't feel good about myself with them.
• 27:51
  Cheryl: And, and I realized actually, I don't really trust that person.
• 27:56
  Cheryl: And I'm watching what I say and, uh, my expectations, all of that.
• 28:02
  Cheryl: And it took me.
• 28:03
  Cheryl: Backing up to look at it, to realize this person should not be in my center core and I have to be more guarded with them.
• 28:14
  Cheryl: And so I can be friends on the third level, but just exactly what you're talking to as a mom working through that, is this a person I feel safe with?
• 28:27
  Cheryl: And it takes a long time develop one of those inner core relationships.
• 28:32
  Cheryl: and that's what
• 28:33
  Ellen: all the struggles are when you're little, is learning how to filter through and start learning.
• 28:40
  Ellen: What is a good friend?
• 28:41
  Ellen: What's acceptable behavior on both our parts.
• 28:44
  Ellen: I mean, that's a whole learning thing and it's easy.
• 28:47
  Ellen: And because we're individuals, that's different sometimes with each person.
• 28:52
  Danae: Yeah.
• 28:52
  Danae: I don't remember my dad, when I was in high school, you said to me, I was having problems with the click and there was a click of girls and, and he said, my, my mild mannered father who really didn't say very much said, deny, I think you need to get a thicker skin.
• 29:09
  Danae: And I did not like him saying that to me then.
• 29:13
  Danae: And, but I've thought about it recently.
• 29:16
  Danae: And you know, I, what he was trying to say was right.
• 29:20
  Danae: Make what he was trying to say was don't have your heart.
• 29:25
  Danae: On the outside, giving your heart to every single person.
• 29:30
  Danae: I was very sensitive.
• 29:32
  Danae: I, I wanted to belong with everyone and wanted everyone to like me.
• 29:38
  Danae: I really had value to everyone liking me and approving of me and all of that.
• 29:44
  Danae: Um, and he was seeing rightly but his one little statement I needed more than that.
• 29:51
  Danae: I see it now.
• 29:52
  Danae: And, and as we're talking about the different levels of friendships, I feel like we've hit on some different things of there's acquaintances.
• 29:58
  Danae: And, and I want my ch to teach my children, or I hope I did.
• 30:03
  Danae: They were younger.
• 30:04
  Danae: And then for myself, that I'm kind to everyone.
• 30:09
  Danae: I'm a good listener.
• 30:10
  Danae: I'm the thoughtful, these are just part of being a good human, you know, but then we're talking about that core friendship.
• 30:19
  Danae: That's it's, it's more, it's trusting, man.
• 30:23
  Danae: It's being able to be vulnerable with them and then be respectful and thoughtful.
• 30:28
  Danae: And if they, and if they aren't one time, they come back to you and I apologize.
• 30:33
  Danae: Right?
• 30:33
  Danae: Cause we're not expecting perfect people as friends.
• 30:36
  Danae: Right.
• 30:37
  Danae: I would say
• 30:37
  Ellen: that hard thing to you.
• 30:39
  Ellen: If they, if you have a good friendship and they tell you the truth, it may wound you, but it doesn't destroy the friendship.
• 30:47
  Ellen: And it may be the thing that helps you mature and move forward because that's what a good friendship at the core of it is.
• 30:54
  Ellen: We sharpen each
• 30:55
  Cheryl: other.
• 30:56
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 30:56
  Cheryl: actually in Proverbs, it has several things.
• 31:00
  Cheryl: It says if there's a friend that sticks closer than a brother, okay.
• 31:05
  Cheryl: That's a sinner core.
• 31:06
  Cheryl: And then a faithful are the wounds of a friend that, uh, someone that loves you.
• 31:13
  Cheryl: Be that center thing.
• 31:14
  Cheryl: If they're willing to say you have a blind spot and you're not seeing this and you're right to know.
• 31:19
  Cheryl: I remember having those conversations with the kids.
• 31:22
  Cheryl: I think I use the difference between friend and companion, a friend and something and we talked about it saying, there's really a difference than you have to, uh, Figure that out and then walk through, keep having the conversations.
• 31:40
  Cheryl: I just kind of our answer to everything, you know, whatever it is that we want to develop those conversations and lead our kids through it.
• 31:48
  Ellen: And our children will get hurt and we cannot protect our children from even a friend hurting them or a group hurting them.
• 31:57
  Ellen: And that's part of what makes them compassionate adults.
• 32:01
  Ellen: If we can come alongside and go, yes.
• 32:04
  Ellen: Doesn't it feel horrible to be the only one who didn't get invited.
• 32:08
  Ellen: Remember never to do that to other people.
• 32:11
  Cheryl: That's really good.
• 32:12
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 32:13
  Cheryl: I hate to do this, but we're out of time.
• 32:16
  Cheryl: So we have a lot more, I think, to say about friendships and friends.
• 32:21
  Cheryl: Uh let's let's plan on doing another episode about it.
• 32:25
  Cheryl: Sounds great.
• 32:26
  Cheryl: Good, good.
• 32:26
  Cheryl: Yep.
• 32:27
  Cheryl: All right.
• 32:28
  Cheryl: So moms, don't forget, send us your questions because that's what we've done again today.
• 32:36
  Cheryl: It's connect@theparentingpodcast.com and you can text it, email it, or just DMS over social media.
• 32:45
  Cheryl: But until then, remember, hang in there.
• 32:47
  Cheryl: Keep loving, keep persevering because it's worth it.