Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / The Ruby Ridge Incident - Part 2

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The Ruby Ridge Incident - Part 2 · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

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Speaker 1: In the last episode of Wicked and Grim, we discussed
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Speaker 1: part one of Ruby Rich. Today we expand further and
0:14
Speaker 1: dive into part two.
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Speaker 2: My name's Ben and I'm Nicole, and you're listening to
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Speaker 2: Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcast. Warning.
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Speaker 1: The following podcast and material intended for a mature audience
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Speaker 1: listener discription. I want to start off and just let
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Speaker 1: everyone know there may be some noises from our MIC's today.
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Speaker 1: We have a new micro our phone stands and are
1:01
Speaker 1: trying to get used to them. So if you hear
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Speaker 1: things like this, we're sorry. We are very sorry. We're
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Speaker 1: trying to get used to them. We will do our
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Speaker 1: best to make absolutely no noise with them.
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Speaker 2: I feel like, well they're tabletop MIC's, so they're I
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Speaker 2: feel like a little bit more sensitive too.
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Speaker 1: They are. Yeah, So where we got these so we
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Speaker 1: can actually get ready to record the episodes for video
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Speaker 1: and put them up on YouTube. So this way our
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Speaker 1: MIC's are out of our face.
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Speaker 2: Pretty exciting.
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Speaker 1: So yeah, so yeah, that we're we're getting really close.
1:27
Speaker 1: We're gonna be recording some episodes here and we'll let
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Speaker 1: you know when it's available over on YouTube. If you
1:31
Speaker 1: want to go subscribe early feel free to check it out.
1:33
Speaker 1: It's Wicked Life link down below. We're doing blogs and
1:35
Speaker 1: stuff over there too. So yeah, we also got to
1:39
Speaker 1: thank some patrons.
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Speaker 2: We do.
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Speaker 1: We have two to thank, we do so we have
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Speaker 1: Joe Burrow and Julia Schroeder.
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Speaker 2: Awesome, Thank you guys, Thank you so much.
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Speaker 1: We both signed up and are getting that extra behind
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Speaker 1: the scenes content. We just did a little pre show
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Speaker 1: that we uploaded over on Patreon.
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Speaker 2: It wasn't really that little. It was like thirteen minutes,
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Speaker 2: fair enough.
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Speaker 1: When we do a pre show, our target is about
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Speaker 1: like ten minutes, just like a little warm up, you know,
2:01
Speaker 1: checking the mic levels and just bullshit and shooting the shit.
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Speaker 2: We had a lot to say.
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Speaker 1: I guess, so, I guess so, so you want to
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Speaker 1: go check that out. You could check it out over
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Speaker 1: on Patreon. But I know Nicole is really antsy.
2:13
Speaker 2: I know the day has come four part two of shit.
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Speaker 2: I forget what's it called, like the Ruby Ridge incident? Okay,
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Speaker 2: I probably would not have remembered that, but anyway, we
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Speaker 2: left kind of like at quite the scene, and this
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Speaker 2: has been all my mind all week.
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Speaker 1: We did leave it quite the scene, and apparently I
2:34
Speaker 1: got in shit a few times from Nicole because this
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Speaker 1: has been not an easy one for her to get through.
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Speaker 2: Apparently I had to resist the urge to look up anything.
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Speaker 1: Did you were you contemplating it maybe.
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Speaker 2: For like a brief second? Wow, I didn't know.
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Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad you didn't. I'm gonna do a little
2:52
Speaker 1: quick recap, just like a like a twenty second little
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Speaker 1: like in your face. Here's what happened last episode. Uh So,
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Speaker 1: in part one, we discussed Randy Weaver and his family.
3:01
Speaker 1: We talked about how he and his wife, Vicki, had
3:04
Speaker 1: moved to an isolated ridge which is now dubbed Ruby Ridge,
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Speaker 1: to live off grid and raise a family together. However,
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Speaker 1: despite a dispute with neighbors and an undercover FBI agent
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Speaker 1: who managed to course Randy into selling illegal firearms, had
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Speaker 1: him in quite a tough spot who was facing charges
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Speaker 1: and refused to work out a deal with the FBI
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Speaker 1: as an informant. This unfortunately led Randy to missing his
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Speaker 1: trial and seeking refuge in his secluded property. Authorities knew
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Speaker 1: Randy could be ready to fight at any moment and
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Speaker 1: tried to apprehend him, so by doing so, they began
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Speaker 1: intense surveillance and even sent a military reconnaissance team with
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Speaker 1: N sixteen rifles. Fully kitted up in Gillie suits. The
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Speaker 1: team closed in in the home a cabin perched in
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Speaker 1: the middle of their property, and attempted to gain the
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Speaker 1: family dog, Striker's attention by throwing a rock. The plan worked,
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Speaker 1: and they got Striker's attention and now the dog along
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Speaker 1: with Randy, Sun, Sammy, and a family friend, Kevin, who
4:03
Speaker 1: was living with them, and they were headed out of
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Speaker 1: the house and headed straight towards the concealed men with
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Speaker 1: rifles in hand.
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Speaker 2: Gosh, okay, and just so that when he missed his
4:14
Speaker 2: court hearing, that was because the parole officer had told
4:18
Speaker 2: him the wrong date though too right correct. Yeah. So see,
4:21
Speaker 2: there's there's so many pieces to this that just seems
4:23
Speaker 2: so almost unfair.
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Speaker 1: I guess, oh, it's it's a big case. Yeah, and
4:29
Speaker 1: like you say, it is very unfair to say.
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Speaker 2: Yes, okay, so frig I oh, now that we're here, I'm.
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Speaker 1: Almost just like, shit, you're just nervous.
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Speaker 2: I don't know if I want to know what happens. Well,
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Speaker 2: I don't feel like it's going to be good.
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Speaker 1: No, no, okay, Well, well I'm gonna divulge what happened,
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Speaker 1: and I'm going to tell you if it was good
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Speaker 1: or bad. Well, I'm sure you can hear that for yourself.
4:51
Speaker 1: But here we go. You ready, Yeah, okay, let's do this. So,
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Speaker 1: as the two boys and the dog were headed in
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Speaker 1: the direction of the reconnaissance team, the Marshalls hutting in
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Speaker 1: the bush. They initially the reconnaissance team initially withdrew the
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Speaker 1: defense into the woods. So the boys were coming out
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Speaker 1: of the cabin with guns and hands and the dog
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Speaker 1: coming as well, and they kind of backed up and
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Speaker 1: headed back towards the bush. So they hadn't been seen yet,
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Speaker 1: but they managed to reach a pivotal wide junction on
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Speaker 1: a trail, and this was positioned about five hundred yards
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Speaker 1: west of their cabin. However, the dog striker was now
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Speaker 1: sniffing about and knowing something was going going wrong or
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Speaker 1: someone was around, so Sammy and Kevin trailed behind him
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Speaker 1: through this thick foliage. Now, the following events are debated
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Speaker 1: to this day, with conflicting accounts from the agents and
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Speaker 1: the weavers on what exactly led the unfolding events. But
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Speaker 1: we're going to go with the events that are most
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Speaker 1: recognized as truth.
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Speaker 2: Okay, yes, sir so.
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Speaker 1: According to the agents, one scout claimed to have doubted
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Speaker 1: quote back off US Marshal upon seeing Sammy Weaver approaching,
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Speaker 1: while another asserted to have shouted stop us Marshal as
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Speaker 1: they approached. Whatever the case, it was roughly a minute
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Speaker 1: later when Sammy and Striker emerged from the trees near
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Speaker 1: one of the marshals, with the dog Striker approaching one
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Speaker 1: of the concealed marshals who is hiding in a bush.
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Speaker 1: In this critical moment, that very marshal opened fire upon
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Speaker 1: the dog from his concealed position, as he apparently feared
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Speaker 1: Striker was going to attack him, and he fatally shot
6:36
Speaker 1: him all on a whim. No, yes, he opened fired
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Speaker 1: and killed Striker.
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Speaker 2: Just like that, just like that. Oh my gosh, I'm pissed.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, the dog, the dog. If anyone knows, Nicole it
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Speaker 1: all you never hurt the animals.
6:55
Speaker 2: Well no, And they were the ones that provoked the dog.
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Speaker 1: They were They were the ones who threw the rock
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Speaker 1: at a cabin to get the dog's attention. Yeah, so
7:04
Speaker 1: now the dog is, hey, you have my attention, what's up?
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Speaker 2: And they shot him and the dog literally has no
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Speaker 2: idea what is going on with anything? Correct, hole just
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Speaker 2: knows that someone's on the prom Okay, oh yeah, I'll
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Speaker 2: keep well.
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Speaker 1: And not only this, Sammy is standing right there and
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Speaker 1: watched his dog get shot.
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Speaker 2: Oh, I would actually probably lose my mofal mind.
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Speaker 1: Striker got shot right in front of his eyes by
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Speaker 1: something that was just hiding in a bush. So Sammy
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Speaker 1: didn't even know who or what shot his dog.
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Speaker 2: Shit.
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Speaker 1: He did yell out, quote, you've killed my dog, you
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Speaker 1: son of a bitch, and then he aimed his rifle
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Speaker 1: into the underbrush in the direction from the concealed shot,
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Speaker 1: and he pulled the trigger.
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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, okay, that is it's getting wild here.
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Speaker 2: But honestly, like, okay, maybe I shouldn't keep talking. But
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Speaker 2: if I was armed and in situation, I would lose
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Speaker 2: my shit too.
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Speaker 1: Well, and put it this way, you're probably only assuming
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Speaker 1: that you're next. You don't know who's in the bush.
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Speaker 1: You don't see them. This is a kid who watched
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Speaker 1: his dog get shot and is now in his self
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Speaker 1: defense position because he had no idea who's in there.
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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and that dog is like a family member.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, as I mentioned earlier, the Marshals did allege
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Speaker 1: that one of them shouted back off us Marshall and
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Speaker 1: the other one shouted stop us Marshall, but no one
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Speaker 1: can clarify. It's just these two just saying, yeah, I
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Speaker 1: said something.
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Speaker 2: Well and to a kid, what does that mean?
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Speaker 1: Even even if they did, Yeah, even if they did,
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Speaker 1: how do they know if he heard them?
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Speaker 2: Yeah?
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Speaker 1: Clearly, probably not because the kid kept pursuing.
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Speaker 2: But would a ten year old kid also even know
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Speaker 2: what that means?
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Speaker 1: I don't know.
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Speaker 2: Like, I don't know. If I would have it ten,
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Speaker 2: i'd be it cool.
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Speaker 1: I don't know if Sammy's ten. I'm not sure of his.
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Speaker 2: Age, to be fair, Oh okay, I don't know why
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Speaker 2: I thought ten.
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Speaker 1: Well, I do know he is. He is a younger
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Speaker 1: kid about that age, but I don't know if he
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Speaker 1: is ten per s. He might could be around fifteen
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Speaker 1: or something, for all I am sure of. I didn't
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Speaker 1: actually look up his age. But with the shots now
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Speaker 1: being fired from two different directions, Kevin quickly dove to
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Speaker 1: find cover behind a tree stump, and he retaliated with
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Speaker 1: a single unaimed shot into the bush. Kind of, there's
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Speaker 1: firing happening over here. I'm just returning fire because they are,
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Speaker 1: I mean, under siege. We just went over this with Hey,
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Speaker 1: some strange person in the bush is shooting at us.
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Speaker 1: And when Kevin shot into the bush, he hit one
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Speaker 1: of the marshals and killed Deputy US Marshall William Francis
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Speaker 1: aka Bill Degan.
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Speaker 2: Oh man, is that the one that killed the dog?
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Speaker 2: Or is that a different one?
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Speaker 1: I wonder, Hey, I'm not too sure.
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Speaker 2: Okay, but geez, it's dark out. They're like disguised. This
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Speaker 2: is a freaking disaster.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. So, now, responding to the gunfire upon them, the
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Speaker 1: marshals once again shot in the direction of the boys,
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Speaker 1: and Sammy Weaver was shot in the arm. Now being
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Speaker 1: shot himself, he quickly turned and attempted to flee up
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Speaker 1: the hill towards the house where he'd come from. However,
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Speaker 1: another shot wrung out from the marshals and hit Sammy
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Speaker 1: square in the back and looked him to the ground dead. Seriously, yes,
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Speaker 1: they shot him in the back.
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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Okay, and this is the actual sun right?
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Speaker 1: Not correct?
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Speaker 2: Okay, this has just gotten real out of hand here.
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Speaker 2: I don't think this should be okay at all.
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Speaker 1: No subsequent ballistic analysts later on revealed that a total
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Speaker 1: of nineteen rounds were discharged during the intense confrontation.
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Speaker 2: WHOA, I mean, I knew something kind of like this
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Speaker 2: maybe would have gone down, but this is brutal.
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Speaker 1: It's intense. I can't imagine being in that situation, let
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Speaker 1: alone a child or a kid or a teen being
10:55
Speaker 1: in that situation. Kevin understandably is now like scared shitless,
11:00
Speaker 1: so he brought to his feet and he managed to
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Speaker 1: run back to the cabin in the whole aftermath of
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Speaker 1: the firefight, and when he got to the cabin, apparently
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Speaker 1: the cries and screams of the whole Weaver family were
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Speaker 1: like echoing through the woods as Kevin actually told them
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Speaker 1: the events of what happened and the fact that Sammy
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Speaker 1: was now dead.
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Speaker 2: Gosh.
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Speaker 1: Randy was apparently so overwhelmed with grief he was rolling
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Speaker 1: on the floor, pounding his fists and even went outside
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Speaker 1: and was firing his gun into the air in a
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Speaker 1: fit of rage. Vicky, his wife, who's kind of like
11:30
Speaker 1: the being the pillar of family strength in that moment,
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Speaker 1: did her best to console her distraught husband and the
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Speaker 1: rest of the family as well.
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Speaker 2: Wow, well, I mean, they just they literally just killed
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Speaker 2: two of their family members.
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Speaker 1: They did, Oh my gosh. Okay, So the Weaver family
11:47
Speaker 1: soon managed to actually make their way out of the
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Speaker 1: home and retrieve Sammy's lifeless body. Meanwhile, the agents called
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Speaker 1: for reinforcements and asserted that they were quote pinned down
12:00
Speaker 1: gunfire and urgently needed assistance. I mean, strangely, despite their
12:04
Speaker 1: heightened surveillance around the property and also being right there
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Speaker 1: apparently pinned down or that's important because if you're pinned
12:13
Speaker 1: down the same spot, you'd probably see you're down, victim,
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Speaker 1: you just shot right. The agents claimed they had no
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Speaker 1: idea Sammy Weaver had died.
12:22
Speaker 2: Oh, they would have known where they were shooting. I
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Speaker 2: feel like because they would have had I don't know,
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Speaker 2: technology or or whatever to be of a see in
12:32
Speaker 2: the dark and like see their target.
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Speaker 1: No, this is this is not like in the They
12:37
Speaker 1: did have like night vision and stuff like that that
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Speaker 1: they were equipped with, but it was more so like
12:42
Speaker 1: through the trees and the bush and that sort of
12:44
Speaker 1: stuff was more so the problem. But the problem, a
12:47
Speaker 1: big thing here is they claimed they were pinned down
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Speaker 1: by gunfire. Pinned down means you can't move, You're in
12:53
Speaker 1: this spot, you can't go anywhere, hence why you need backup. However,
12:59
Speaker 1: they did not. No, Sammy died and the family was
13:02
Speaker 1: actually able to come to retrieve his body. So they
13:06
Speaker 1: did not see the family come up, because they would
13:08
Speaker 1: have shot at them too, and they didn't see his
13:10
Speaker 1: dead body. They were not pinned.
13:12
Speaker 2: Down, No, and they weren't. No one was armed at
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Speaker 2: that towards them at that moment. Really.
13:18
Speaker 1: Oh they probably were, But if there was a firefight
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Speaker 1: in the bush and your kid was just killed, I'm
13:23
Speaker 1: pretty sure you're walking out.
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Speaker 2: But it's not like they're like hunkered down and just
13:27
Speaker 2: like you know.
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Speaker 1: No, they weren't being pinned down. Yeah, but they claimed
13:30
Speaker 1: they were chase. So the reports of casualties and the
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Speaker 1: Weavers perceived as armed and dangerous. Additional snipers and special
13:39
Speaker 1: agents were dispatched to the tents standoff, in a marked
13:43
Speaker 1: departure from the standoff rules of engagement, which typically mandates
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Speaker 1: firing only when agents face imminent danger, which arguably that
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Speaker 1: one Marshall who shot the dog claims because he feared
13:57
Speaker 1: the dog could have attacked him. We'll just assume he's
14:01
Speaker 1: right on that, okay, because that's completely up for debate.
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Speaker 1: But we'll just assume, we'll give him the benefit of
14:05
Speaker 1: the doubt, so assume that you can only fire when
14:11
Speaker 1: faced with imminent danger. However, the FBI decided to alter
14:14
Speaker 1: the rules in this scenario. Now now agents and snipers
14:18
Speaker 1: were authorized to shoot quote, any adult male with a
14:23
Speaker 1: weapon if the shot can be taken without endangering children.
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Speaker 1: That's regardless of any immediate threat to the agents whatsoever.
14:32
Speaker 1: The approval of legitimacy to this charge remains subject of debate.
14:37
Speaker 1: There's some paperwork that says it was never approved, but
14:41
Speaker 1: they did it anyways, And someone some saying that this
14:44
Speaker 1: guy is the one who told us to but he's
14:46
Speaker 1: then going back and saying I didn't. It's a whole
14:48
Speaker 1: convoluted thing. But regardless, that was the situation at the.
14:53
Speaker 2: Time, and that one boy should never have been shot.
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Speaker 2: Really no, there's no way that that would have been
14:59
Speaker 2: a proved I don't see. I can't see that in it.
15:02
Speaker 1: There was no immediate threat. His back was turned, he
15:06
Speaker 1: was running.
15:06
Speaker 2: Yet, Oh my gosh, that just gave me a visual.
15:10
Speaker 2: That's actually sad as well.
15:12
Speaker 1: It really is.
15:13
Speaker 2: Oh.
15:14
Speaker 1: Now, the family was preparing to pray over Sammy's body
15:17
Speaker 1: before they buried him, and they currently had him in
15:20
Speaker 1: the berthing shed, the one that we had talked about
15:22
Speaker 1: in the last episode. So Randy, Sarah, and Kevin were
15:27
Speaker 1: armed as they needed to be, and unfortunately now they
15:30
Speaker 1: became the focus of the waiting snipers who were called
15:33
Speaker 1: in as backup. So these three were leaving the house
15:36
Speaker 1: to head out to the shed to where Sammy's body was,
15:41
Speaker 1: and as the three approached the shed to morn, a
15:43
Speaker 1: shot rang off through the air and Randy was hit
15:47
Speaker 1: near his armpit by a sniper's bullet. Sarah quickly leapt
15:51
Speaker 1: leapt into action and shielded her father from another shot
15:54
Speaker 1: as they rushed back towards the house, where Vicki, his wife,
15:58
Speaker 1: held the door wide open with her ten month old
16:02
Speaker 1: Elisabeth in her arms. Now Randy and Sarah made it inside,
16:07
Speaker 1: but as Kevin entered, sniper lown Rouchie fired again towards
16:12
Speaker 1: the open door of the house. While he claims he
16:15
Speaker 1: was aiming for Kevin, the bullet tragically hit another target. First. Heartbreakingly,
16:22
Speaker 1: the shot tore through Vicky Weaver's face, killing her instantly,
16:26
Speaker 1: before it followed through and hit Kevin in the chest.
16:30
Speaker 2: Okay, so sorry, who's Vicky? Is that the mom?
16:32
Speaker 1: That's Randy's wife? Yes, okay, as she is holding their
16:36
Speaker 1: ten month old child in her arms.
16:37
Speaker 2: Holy shit, and it hit her where in the face,
16:41
Speaker 2: so she's gone dead. And then hit Kevin in the chest.
16:46
Speaker 2: And isn't Kevin also a kid? Technically I think would
16:50
Speaker 2: he be considered an ask?
16:51
Speaker 1: Probably an adult because a little bit of a spoiler
16:55
Speaker 1: alert here, he was tried later as an adult. Okay,
16:58
Speaker 1: so I'm not too certain on it age, but he
17:00
Speaker 1: is not. He is definitely of an adult age, but
17:03
Speaker 1: he's still certainly young.
17:04
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, this this does not seem okay, this
17:08
Speaker 2: does not seem.
17:09
Speaker 1: Okay, No, it's not.
17:11
Speaker 2: So now the dog's dead, the kid's dead, and now
17:15
Speaker 2: the wife's dead as well.
17:16
Speaker 1: Yep, and Randy and Sarah were now forced to drag
17:20
Speaker 1: Vicki's lifeless body into the house with her arms still
17:24
Speaker 1: wrapped around and cradling the infant.
17:27
Speaker 2: Good okay, wow, goodness gracious.
17:31
Speaker 1: So they laid her down in the kitchen, and due
17:33
Speaker 1: to the family now being pinned down by military snipers
17:36
Speaker 1: in their home, this is where she would remain for
17:39
Speaker 1: several days.
17:43
Speaker 2: Okay, oh, this just keeps getting worse.
17:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, they couldn't leave the house.
17:50
Speaker 2: And literally, oh my gosh, she's just like in front
17:53
Speaker 2: of the family just having this. It's like she's, you know,
17:57
Speaker 2: decome decomposing. Oh. I can't even say it, like I
18:00
Speaker 2: just okay. Oh that's so so bad, it's horrible. Mm hmm.
18:06
Speaker 2: And then they weren't able to lay Zam to rest
18:09
Speaker 2: like they wanted either.
18:10
Speaker 1: He's currently laying in the shed.
18:14
Speaker 2: Okay.
18:16
Speaker 1: So, Kevin, though, was now gravely injured. He had a
18:19
Speaker 1: shot to the chest, and over the course of the
18:22
Speaker 1: following days while he was tended to, he pleaded with
18:25
Speaker 1: Randy to end his pain and misery. Randy, however, refused
18:32
Speaker 1: to give up on him.
18:34
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, he needed medical attention, I guess he did.
18:37
Speaker 1: But they couldn't get it. They were pinned down. The
18:40
Speaker 1: only way they could do this was by handing themselves
18:44
Speaker 1: over to the FBI. And who knows what's going to
18:47
Speaker 1: go on. Yeah, yep, now get this though, this is
18:51
Speaker 1: really fucked up. You're going to hate this. After the
18:53
Speaker 1: second confrontation, federal agents armed with radio equipment because remember
18:58
Speaker 1: they had like speakers under this home. They had shit going.
19:01
Speaker 2: All over right, Oh, so they would know the dire
19:04
Speaker 2: situation in there, Oh they would holy fuck.
19:06
Speaker 1: Okay, but get this armed with all this equipment, they
19:12
Speaker 1: taunted the besieged Weavers by probing into their daily lives.
19:16
Speaker 1: The following morning, they took to the radio and speakers
19:19
Speaker 1: by saying very loudly to them, quote, we had pancakes
19:23
Speaker 1: for breakfast today. How about you, VICKI, What did you
19:27
Speaker 1: eat today? How did you sleep last night? Vicky? Oh
19:34
Speaker 1: my gosh, isn't that beyond fucked?
19:37
Speaker 2: That is just almost inhumane? This is this is now.
19:42
Speaker 2: The FBI claimed they didn't know about Vicky's death, but again,
19:46
Speaker 2: they had the surveillance. They had a sniper who shot
19:48
Speaker 2: her in the face. They would have saw it.
19:51
Speaker 1: Bull shit.
19:52
Speaker 2: Yeah they would have heard. Yeah, there's no way that
19:54
Speaker 2: they wouldn't have heard.
19:55
Speaker 1: There's no way.
19:57
Speaker 2: Absolutely, that is disgusting. I am so fucking disgusted right now.
20:02
Speaker 1: This is so you're telling me a trained sniper wouldn't
20:05
Speaker 1: know he hit a target, a trained military sniper.
20:09
Speaker 2: A target that was literally holding a baby.
20:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, and one that the family had to drag into
20:15
Speaker 1: the house and probably before they closed the door.
20:18
Speaker 2: Mm hmm man, this is so. I don't know why
20:23
Speaker 2: I was wanting to hear more of this.
20:27
Speaker 1: This is fucked now. In another odd turn, the agents
20:31
Speaker 1: actually deployed a robot to go up and try and
20:35
Speaker 1: connect with the family. However, the robot was carrying a phone,
20:39
Speaker 1: you know, to talk as well. It was armed with
20:42
Speaker 1: a gun to establish communication. And why the fuck does
20:46
Speaker 1: a robot have a gun?
20:47
Speaker 2: Well, who's supposed to go out to greet the robot?
20:50
Speaker 2: Because anyone that would, unless it's a child who could
20:54
Speaker 2: still probably be hurt, Like, they're not going to go out.
20:57
Speaker 1: There, exactly like the whole we were. Everyone inside the
21:00
Speaker 1: house was extremely skeptical of this, Like this is a
21:03
Speaker 1: fucking trap. Even the agents aren't going to shoot us.
21:06
Speaker 1: Why the fuck does the robot have a gun? If
21:09
Speaker 1: I go out there and try and grab the phone,
21:10
Speaker 1: it's gonna shoot me, yeah, or someone.
21:12
Speaker 2: Like it's because in their mind too, the kids wouldn't
21:16
Speaker 2: weren't even safe.
21:17
Speaker 1: No, so yeah, uh so, Like they're skeptical because there's
21:23
Speaker 1: even radio reports now going out and like this is
21:26
Speaker 1: news radio reports, right, Like so the news knows about this,
21:29
Speaker 1: and they are saying how Randy had killed a federal agent.
21:33
Speaker 1: But I mean it was Kevin who had shot into
21:35
Speaker 1: the bush in retaliation and self defense and did kill one.
21:38
Speaker 1: So one agent is dead, but they are blaming it
21:40
Speaker 1: on Randy purposely killing an agent.
21:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they did not also probably state that one
21:45
Speaker 2: of the agents killed the kid no who was running
21:49
Speaker 2: away no fear.
21:50
Speaker 1: Or the mother who was holding a ten month old child. Yeah.
21:54
Speaker 1: So yeah, they're basically suspecting this is a whole trap,
21:56
Speaker 1: and they're like, if we take any anything, it's probably
22:00
Speaker 1: going to lead to our downfall or even a potential
22:03
Speaker 1: death right. And of course, how are they going to
22:05
Speaker 1: paint that in the public's eye. It's just they knew
22:08
Speaker 1: they were fucked. They knew they were screwed. They didn't
22:10
Speaker 1: know what else to do. But eventually the standoff saw
22:14
Speaker 1: an individual by the name of Bo Gritz who was
22:16
Speaker 1: a former renowned Green Beret, and if you remember from
22:19
Speaker 1: last episode, Randy went through Green Beret training, so Bo
22:26
Speaker 1: was called in to negotiate with Randy. Over three intense days,
22:30
Speaker 1: Bo succeeded in persuading Randy to come down from the
22:33
Speaker 1: mountain home. The breakthrough came when Bo assured Randy of
22:37
Speaker 1: assistance in obtaining a complete and fair trial. That's what
22:42
Speaker 1: he wanted because he knew if he just gives up,
22:44
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm going to be shot killed. Who knows
22:46
Speaker 1: what they're going to paint me as, I'm just going
22:48
Speaker 1: to be locked away? What about my family? What about
22:49
Speaker 1: my home? All these questions? Right, So BO assisted and
22:52
Speaker 1: ensuring no, you're going to get a fair trial, the evidence, everything,
22:57
Speaker 1: you name it.
22:59
Speaker 2: Well, I mean I can't imagine that this just amplified
23:02
Speaker 2: for him too, because now his kids there's no one else. Yeah,
23:06
Speaker 2: they don't have a mom.
23:07
Speaker 1: Correct. So BO did succeed in getting Randy to come down,
23:12
Speaker 1: and Kevin was also safely brought down from the mountain
23:15
Speaker 1: for medical treatment and survived as injuries.
23:18
Speaker 2: That's good.
23:19
Speaker 1: On the second day of negotiations, Bo actually contacted an
23:23
Speaker 1: attorney whose name is Jerry Spence, who expressed a serious
23:27
Speaker 1: interest in taking Randy's case. And I'm sure that would
23:29
Speaker 1: have been part of the negotiations of a fair trial
23:31
Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, is I have this individual who's willing
23:34
Speaker 1: to potentially defend you, right, Yeah. So on the day
23:38
Speaker 1: Randy surrendered to law enforcement, he met with Jerry Spence,
23:42
Speaker 1: who Jerry, by the way, is known for his western
23:45
Speaker 1: courtroom attire, which I absolutely fucking love. I just see
23:48
Speaker 1: him in like in my head, I picture a cowboy
23:49
Speaker 1: hat and a bolo tie and he's just loving life.
23:53
Speaker 1: But more importantly, he's also known for it never losing
23:57
Speaker 1: a criminal jury trial.
23:59
Speaker 2: Oh okay, so got a good lawyer?
24:02
Speaker 1: Yes, so Jerry began the meeting. He's not. I mean,
24:06
Speaker 1: he did actually represent him in court, but as of
24:08
Speaker 1: right now, they're just talking about the representing, Like, can
24:11
Speaker 1: I represent you?
24:12
Speaker 2: Are?
24:12
Speaker 1: We're going to take this right, okay. So Jerry began
24:14
Speaker 1: the meeting by expressing his disagreement with how the Weaver's
24:18
Speaker 1: political and religious beliefs were. However, he emphasized his commitment
24:24
Speaker 1: to Randy's right to a fair trial, and after listening
24:26
Speaker 1: to Randy's story, he agreed to defend him in court
24:30
Speaker 1: for free.
24:32
Speaker 2: Okay. So he obviously if he thought that this was
24:36
Speaker 2: a lose in battle, he probably wouldn't have offered to
24:39
Speaker 2: do it.
24:40
Speaker 1: Probably not.
24:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, he knew that he had a strong case.
24:43
Speaker 1: But not even necessarily a strong case though is I mean,
24:47
Speaker 1: I'm sure that was part of it, but a bigger
24:49
Speaker 1: part here, which I'm going to talk about here. I'll
24:53
Speaker 1: do it right now. So this next paragraph I have
24:55
Speaker 1: says in a letter to a Jewish friend attempting to
24:58
Speaker 1: dissuade him from that she's taking the case. The friend
25:01
Speaker 1: was like, don't fucking take this case. Jerry actually asserted
25:04
Speaker 1: that the defense goes beyond what he's talking about, because
25:09
Speaker 1: he didn't want him to take this case because hey,
25:11
Speaker 1: Randy's a potential racist and all these groups he's a
25:13
Speaker 1: part of and stuff and very radical. Yeah, so Jerry's like,
25:16
Speaker 1: this is beyond the whole radical and racial separatism and
25:20
Speaker 1: everything that it may represent. This was about a whole
25:23
Speaker 1: greater concern of a government losing respect for an individual's rights.
25:27
Speaker 1: So it wasn't that he was defending him because he's like,
25:30
Speaker 1: we can win this. He's defending him because it's the
25:32
Speaker 1: right fucking thing to do.
25:34
Speaker 2: Wow, which, honestly, with everything that Randy has gone through, like,
25:38
Speaker 2: thank goodness that he got this big time.
25:42
Speaker 1: Oh definitely, And for that alone, I want to make
25:44
Speaker 1: Jerry our badass of the day because that is fucking badass.
25:48
Speaker 2: Yeah.
25:48
Speaker 1: Not only is he taking this case, he's fighting against
25:50
Speaker 1: the government, he's doing it for free. He also stood
25:53
Speaker 1: up to a peer who's like, don't do this because hey,
25:56
Speaker 1: he's racist against our people. He's like, it's not about that, bitch.
25:59
Speaker 2: Yeah. I feel like a lot of the lawyers too,
26:02
Speaker 2: probably would have just ran for the hills probably this
26:04
Speaker 2: kind of case.
26:05
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, the trial of Randy Weaver and Kevin Harris,
26:08
Speaker 1: because Kevin was also being brought to court because hey,
26:11
Speaker 1: he shot someone, right, began on April twelfth, nineteen ninety three,
26:15
Speaker 1: in a heavily attended courtroom in Boys, Idaho. The courtroom
26:19
Speaker 1: had heightened security measures, including metal detectors, X ray machines
26:23
Speaker 1: and federal marshals who were armed and ready. It was
26:26
Speaker 1: all in anticipated because it was a very potentially heated trial, right,
26:32
Speaker 1: so there could be potential issues, so they wanted to
26:34
Speaker 1: make sure that they were ready for anything that could occur.
26:37
Speaker 1: So the jury okay, but I do have to say,
26:39
Speaker 1: and that's kind of also bullshit because at the same time,
26:42
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, federal marshals are on the stand, so
26:46
Speaker 1: we're gonna have federal marshals defend the court. Now, that's
26:50
Speaker 1: kind of bias, But.
26:51
Speaker 2: Hey, I did think that, But I was like, I'll
26:53
Speaker 2: just keep listening.
26:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, so regardless. The jury was comprised of seven women
26:58
Speaker 1: and five men who are arranging from age of thirty
27:01
Speaker 1: one to seventy two years old, including individuals with varied
27:05
Speaker 1: educational backgrounds from high school dropouts to MBAs, so they
27:09
Speaker 1: had quite the diverse jury at hand.
27:11
Speaker 2: That's good.
27:12
Speaker 1: In the prosecution's opening statement, attorney Howen and Lindquist portrayed
27:18
Speaker 1: Randy as a racist planning to wage war against the
27:21
Speaker 1: government since nineteen eighty two. They also painted him as
27:25
Speaker 1: a hate filled extremist, emphasizing the threat of violence that
27:29
Speaker 1: he posed to the people around him. Representing Kevin Harris,
27:35
Speaker 1: David Nevin presented a very good self defense theory in
27:40
Speaker 1: his opening statement. He's like, hey, self defense, It's basically it, right.
27:46
Speaker 1: Jerry Spence, the one that we were talking about, who
27:48
Speaker 1: is our badass of the day, concluded the opening statements
27:52
Speaker 1: and personalized Randy to the jury, seeking to invoke empathy
27:56
Speaker 1: and painted a very compelling picture of Randy as a
27:58
Speaker 1: loving and devoted family man striving to protect his family
28:01
Speaker 1: to lead a peaceful life.
28:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, good.
28:06
Speaker 1: Where do you think this is going to go? How
28:08
Speaker 1: do you think it's gonna end?
28:09
Speaker 2: Up. Oh my gosh. Honestly, I don't have the faintest clue.
28:15
Speaker 1: Okay, understandable, you're up. I mean, we're up up against
28:20
Speaker 1: such a interesting foe in the courtroom here, the government, right, So.
28:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, like I feel I mean, I know the way
28:27
Speaker 2: I want it to go, but I feel like it
28:29
Speaker 2: probably won't go that way. I mean, I want Randy
28:33
Speaker 2: to to be acquitted, yeah, like not guilty or whatever,
28:37
Speaker 2: but I feel like that it would be way too
28:40
Speaker 2: good to be true.
28:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, there is a whole lot surrounding this case.
28:47
Speaker 1: One of the things that was happening quite frequent was
28:51
Speaker 1: the government was actually hiding evidence and only bringing it
28:54
Speaker 1: up when it benefited them, and all the stuff needs
28:57
Speaker 1: to be on the fucking table, right.
28:59
Speaker 2: Yeah.
29:00
Speaker 1: They would frequently be like, actually this thing and then
29:02
Speaker 1: they're like, what the fuck is this? Like, we need
29:04
Speaker 1: to have all this out in the open. So that
29:06
Speaker 1: was a very uh FRA's dirty it is. It was
29:08
Speaker 1: a very frequent and dirty thing that they were doing
29:10
Speaker 1: in the court. But the government actually started this case
29:14
Speaker 1: by calling us Marshal Larry Cooper a witness to the
29:18
Speaker 1: death of Agent Degan and Sammy Weaver, which also tells
29:23
Speaker 1: me right there. He was a witness to the death
29:25
Speaker 1: of Sammy Weaver. He saw, he saw, they didn't know
29:27
Speaker 1: he was dead, like, you know, are you fucking kidding me?
29:30
Speaker 1: Clearly you did. Anyways, Cooper testified that Kevin Harris shot
29:34
Speaker 1: Degan first, triggering the subsequent exchange of gunfire. He was
29:39
Speaker 1: the first to pull the trigger.
29:41
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, he's just up there lying yep, like
29:44
Speaker 2: under oath. Still yep. Okay, that is not all right.
29:48
Speaker 1: Now, get this though, in response to a defense request,
29:52
Speaker 1: Cooper appeared in court the second day dressed in the
29:55
Speaker 1: same camouflage uniform that he wore in August twenty first,
29:59
Speaker 1: the night of the shootout, and carried the same gun
30:02
Speaker 1: he had that day. So the whole defense was aimed
30:05
Speaker 1: to make the jurors experience what Kevin and Sammy would
30:08
Speaker 1: have experienced and witnessed. These kids out in the bush
30:11
Speaker 1: see this. Yeah, you're telling me they're not gonna try
30:15
Speaker 1: and fight for their life.
30:16
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Well, and the fact that one of them
30:19
Speaker 2: just killed their dog yep, right, which honestly to anyone
30:23
Speaker 2: is a big deal, but especially a kid, I feel for.
30:25
Speaker 1: Sure, And I mean the dog plays such a big
30:28
Speaker 1: part of this. Like even during cross examination, Cooper struggled
30:31
Speaker 1: he had a silencer on his gun, and he struggled
30:34
Speaker 1: to explain like why the silencer actually had been on
30:37
Speaker 1: the gun at all. But he did admit to having
30:40
Speaker 1: orders orders to lure the dogs away from the Weaver's
30:44
Speaker 1: home and shoot them, removing them from quote the outside
30:49
Speaker 1: of the picture.
30:50
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
30:52
Speaker 1: So Jerry Spence, our defending attorney, underscored Striker's role by
30:56
Speaker 1: asking this question quote Now, the dog dog's biggest crime
31:01
Speaker 1: was that he was following you. Isn't that true?
31:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, he didn't do anything. He didn't do a single thing. No,
31:10
Speaker 2: we don't even know if he would have attacked them.
31:12
Speaker 1: No, we don't.
31:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, no idea.
31:14
Speaker 1: No, he provoked the dog to come here, and when
31:17
Speaker 1: a dog comes here, you're like, oh shit, I'm gonna
31:20
Speaker 1: shoot it. Fucking kidding me, Oh my gosh. Another crucial
31:24
Speaker 1: prosecution witness was Agent Faidley, who was an undercover or sorry,
31:29
Speaker 1: the undercover operative who solicited Randy to modify the shotguns
31:33
Speaker 1: illegal and seldom to him that we talked about in
31:35
Speaker 1: the first episode. So under cross examination, Faidley acknowledged the
31:39
Speaker 1: difficulty in persuading Randy into breaking the law. He's like, yeah,
31:43
Speaker 1: it was fuck. It was hard as fuck, Like I
31:44
Speaker 1: really had to like get him to do this. Damn,
31:47
Speaker 1: you're begging him, I'm sure. And in a pivotal exchange,
31:50
Speaker 1: Chuck Peterson, Jerry Spence's co council, prompted fed Faidley to
31:55
Speaker 1: admit that he received no payment for his undercome. He
31:59
Speaker 1: would receive no payment for his undercover work unless there
32:03
Speaker 1: was a conviction.
32:05
Speaker 2: Oh are you serious.
32:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, ultimately, only like really incentivizing him to persuade Randy
32:11
Speaker 1: by any means necessary. And I mean that honestly sounds
32:14
Speaker 1: a lot like fucking bribery to me.
32:16
Speaker 2: In my opinion, that doesn't seem right at all.
32:18
Speaker 1: If you convince him to sell you some shit and
32:21
Speaker 1: we get a conviction out of it, we'll give you
32:23
Speaker 1: some money.
32:24
Speaker 2: Well, it just doesn't make any sense either, because Randy
32:26
Speaker 2: thought that they were friends, right, Yeah, And like anyone
32:30
Speaker 2: in that situation where you have a friend someone you
32:34
Speaker 2: care about, like begging you for something and like repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly,
32:39
Speaker 2: like you're probably gonna cave at some point, and like
32:42
Speaker 2: help your fucking.
32:43
Speaker 1: Friend so that there are certain morals that question here
32:45
Speaker 1: is what to what degree did they go to really
32:48
Speaker 1: coerce Randy into doing this?
32:50
Speaker 2: That almost makes me, this, this whole case almost makes
32:53
Speaker 2: me like emotional because it just doesn't seem.
32:55
Speaker 1: Oh, it's a roller coaster. Yeah, it's everywhere up, down,
32:59
Speaker 1: and it's it's just nothing but bullshit on the end
33:02
Speaker 1: of the government. Now. Closing arguments began on June fifteenth,
33:06
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three, and Kim Lindquist, who was leading for
33:10
Speaker 1: the prosecution, outlined the case's theme for reasons of conviction,
33:15
Speaker 1: asserting that Kevin Harris had murdered Bill Deacan and portraying
33:19
Speaker 1: Vicky Weaver's death as a tragic accident. So he attributed
33:23
Speaker 1: the deaths of Vicky and Sammy to Randy and Kevin
33:28
Speaker 1: and their desire to attack the government. So to quote him, quote,
33:33
Speaker 1: this whole thing is a tragedy, but the cause of
33:36
Speaker 1: the tragedy was the resolve of the Weaver family, and
33:39
Speaker 1: that translates into murder. So he's basically saying Randy and
33:45
Speaker 1: Kevin are the ones who murdered Sammy and VICKI Wow, Yeah,
33:50
Speaker 1: he's saying they're responsible for their deaths.
33:54
Speaker 2: And it doesn't make any sense though, because the other
33:56
Speaker 2: people are like highly trained, yes, but yet it was
33:59
Speaker 2: just like an act accident. Yes, that is so messed up, Yes,
34:05
Speaker 2: beyond messed up, beyond.
34:07
Speaker 1: Like you said, these people are supposed to be highly trained,
34:10
Speaker 1: yet they didn't know two targets were downed. They were
34:13
Speaker 1: unable to actually coerce these people in a manner that's appropriate.
34:20
Speaker 1: For example, they set a robot with a fucking gun.
34:23
Speaker 2: They lied on them.
34:25
Speaker 1: They changed regulations in order to fire as they please,
34:29
Speaker 1: and they're lying on trial in under oath on the stand.
34:35
Speaker 1: Manipulative I think so disgusting. Yeah. So the jury deliberations
34:40
Speaker 1: commenced on Wednesday, June sixteenth, with jurors sequestering in a
34:44
Speaker 1: room with green walls. Institutional green walls, very boring and bland,
34:49
Speaker 1: I'm sure, very standard, and they were shielded from, of course,
34:53
Speaker 1: the outside world, in any sort of forces or anything
34:56
Speaker 1: like that. I'm trying to think of a word. Just
34:59
Speaker 1: wa persuasion, Yeah, there would go any persuasion on one
35:03
Speaker 1: way or another. Television trucks were filling the parking lots
35:08
Speaker 1: and reporters anxiously awaited any updates and were ready to
35:12
Speaker 1: go at any moment. Thirteen tension filled days later, on
35:16
Speaker 1: June twenty ninth, a juror suffering from post traumatic stress
35:19
Speaker 1: disorder and a chronic heart condition would no longer be
35:21
Speaker 1: able to continue serving the jury, which led to their
35:25
Speaker 1: replacement by an alternate. And now the jury needed to
35:27
Speaker 1: start from the beginning with their deliberations, and they promptly
35:30
Speaker 1: requested to review the entrapment evidence once again. So finally,
35:34
Speaker 1: that leads us to July eighth, where the jury had
35:37
Speaker 1: finally reached their verdict. The pact and silent courtroom witnessed
35:43
Speaker 1: an emotional moment as the verdicts were read. Randy Weaver
35:48
Speaker 1: and Kevin Harris, overwhelmed with emotion, embraced each other upon
35:52
Speaker 1: hearing the findings. Randy Weaver was acquitted of all charges
35:59
Speaker 1: except for faar to appear in court and committing a
36:02
Speaker 1: crime while on bail release. Kevin Harris was completely acquitted
36:08
Speaker 1: of all charges. When a deputy mentioned taking Kevin back
36:13
Speaker 1: to jail for processing, his attorney, Nevin firmly stated, the
36:18
Speaker 1: hell you will. He's going out the front door with me,
36:21
Speaker 1: and that's exactly what happened. Kevin Harris left that courtroom
36:24
Speaker 1: that day holding his mother's hand out the front door.
36:27
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that literally gave me goose bumps. I'm shocked. Yeah,
36:33
Speaker 2: because I don't know, I feel like what I was
36:35
Speaker 2: worried is that the jury would almost worry about saying
36:41
Speaker 2: that they weren't guilty.
36:42
Speaker 1: The repercussions.
36:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, like, because it's the government. What the fuck are
36:45
Speaker 2: they gonna like they could attack them or like I
36:48
Speaker 2: thought some of them might be afraid kind of thing.
36:50
Speaker 1: No, that's a very reasonable response. Yeah, I mean, it's
36:54
Speaker 1: not like people haven't been claiming to have been stalked
36:56
Speaker 1: or harassed by the government before.
36:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, so whoa, Hey, I mean I'm shocked, but in
37:01
Speaker 2: the best of ways.
37:02
Speaker 1: But that's what you were after we talked about it
37:04
Speaker 1: at the very beginning. You're like, yeah, you want to
37:05
Speaker 1: be acquitted of all charges, not guilty, and I mean
37:08
Speaker 1: he's not acquitted at all. But yeah, so, like his
37:11
Speaker 1: whole acquittal, of course, is relief, but the conviction was
37:15
Speaker 1: bittersweet because he did actually have to return to jail.
37:19
Speaker 1: Judge Lodge dismissed the second conviction ultimately, as it had
37:22
Speaker 1: been proven that Randy committed no crime. During the siege,
37:26
Speaker 1: but he was sentenced to be between eighteen and twenty
37:28
Speaker 1: four months for failure to appear in court, which is
37:32
Speaker 1: well he had that thing earlier in last episode, so
37:36
Speaker 1: having already served fourteen months, he was now set to
37:39
Speaker 1: be released sometime before Christmas, and indeed, in December twenty
37:44
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, December of nineteen ninety three, he finally regained
37:48
Speaker 1: his freedom, and he promptly flew to Iowa to be
37:51
Speaker 1: with his daughters and spend their heartfelt Christmas together goodness.
37:57
Speaker 1: In the aftermath of the trial, in August of nineteen
38:01
Speaker 1: ninety four, Randy Weaver filed a lawsuit for wrongful deaths
38:05
Speaker 1: of Sammy and Vicki Weaver. The case settled before trial,
38:10
Speaker 1: so it didn't even go to court for three point
38:13
Speaker 1: two million dollars in August of nineteen ninety five. However,
38:17
Speaker 1: the government refuses to acknowledge any wrongdoing in the event whatsoever.
38:21
Speaker 1: But they paid out three point five before trial. Yeah,
38:24
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure they know they did some shit wrong.
38:26
Speaker 1: So Kevin Harris also filed a lawsuit, which was settled
38:30
Speaker 1: for four hundred and thirty eight thousand dollars. Gary Spence,
38:36
Speaker 1: who represented Randy, as I mentioned, free of charge, was
38:39
Speaker 1: granted exclusive rights by the Weavers to tell his story.
38:44
Speaker 2: Okay, wow.
38:47
Speaker 1: After the trial, the US Senate appointed a special commission
38:51
Speaker 1: to investigate the incident at Ruby Ridge, and what followed
38:54
Speaker 1: was a very comprehensive five hundred page document reporting the
38:59
Speaker 1: government agent during during wrongdoing, sorry, during the siege. So
39:04
Speaker 1: I mean they say they did no wrongdoing, but there's
39:05
Speaker 1: a document from the government saying, yeah, you fucked up. Now. Lastly,
39:11
Speaker 1: astonishingly enough, Lonnie Harochi, the sniper responsible for Vicki Weaver's death,
39:18
Speaker 1: faced no punishment in the aftermath. Although he was initially
39:22
Speaker 1: charged with involuntary manslaughter and was being brought to trial,
39:26
Speaker 1: a new prosecutor elected to fire a special prosecutor and
39:32
Speaker 1: dismissed the case against them entirely. So he never spent
39:36
Speaker 1: a day in jail, he retained his job, and he
39:39
Speaker 1: did not lose a single day's pay for murdering a
39:43
Speaker 1: woman holding her ten month child as she tried to
39:46
Speaker 1: hold the door open for her family who was fleeing
39:49
Speaker 1: from a barrage of bullets. That is the Ruby Ridge incident.
39:55
Speaker 2: Wow. Way to end on a shit note.
39:58
Speaker 1: There, I know right, it was a rough case. It
40:01
Speaker 1: was a rough one to research, but it was I
40:04
Speaker 1: don't know, it was very different and it it made
40:08
Speaker 1: my stomach churn. It wasn't like it was uh, I
40:11
Speaker 1: don't know what. There's some grotesque, disgusting shit that happens
40:15
Speaker 1: in this world, especially when it comes to murders and
40:18
Speaker 1: a lot of these trials and convictions that we go through,
40:22
Speaker 1: but this one, it's just, I don't know. It's different
40:26
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways because the government is supposed
40:28
Speaker 1: to be there to help you and they did everything
40:31
Speaker 1: but help them.
40:33
Speaker 2: It's scary, it is, yeah, because I feel, oh my gosh,
40:39
Speaker 2: I mean, you could get yourself in that situation and
40:43
Speaker 2: there's like there was almost no way out for him.
40:46
Speaker 1: There wasn't no he was surrounded, he was pinned down,
40:50
Speaker 1: he was shot at, he was just screwed.
40:52
Speaker 2: Well. They were just eating pancakes for breakfast.
40:55
Speaker 1: Like, could god, could you imagine being sitting there grieving
40:59
Speaker 1: the death of your life who you cannot even take
41:01
Speaker 1: outside the death of a loved one is just the
41:04
Speaker 1: person's laying there on the floor, as you said, decomposing,
41:07
Speaker 1: Uh huh. And there's speakers under your house being like, Hey,
41:10
Speaker 1: we have pancakes for breakfast today. What'd you eat? What'd
41:13
Speaker 1: you eat?
41:13
Speaker 2: VICKI you know, honestly, I am sometimes like a little
41:18
Speaker 2: bit hot headed, and I sometimes you don't say.
41:22
Speaker 1: Not a lot of people know that, but I'm married
41:23
Speaker 1: to you, trust me.
41:24
Speaker 2: I know I would actually have handled things a lot
41:27
Speaker 2: differently than Randy. So I honestly feel like he did
41:31
Speaker 2: a very good job. Oh he did, because I would
41:34
Speaker 2: have lost my motherfucking mind.
41:36
Speaker 1: I could see you going like full fucking Rambo, tying
41:39
Speaker 1: a like bandana around your head, war paint, knifing your teeth,
41:44
Speaker 1: crawling through the fucking oh yeah.
41:46
Speaker 2: And it would still be because of my dog. Yeah,
41:49
Speaker 2: I mean, but they're the dog and then now the
41:51
Speaker 2: sun and like the wife and stuff. But it's just like,
41:55
Speaker 2: I feel like I would have just gone on a fucking.
41:57
Speaker 1: Rampage, understandably, but I think a lot of people would have.
42:01
Speaker 2: You're also it's hard to say too, because you're like
42:04
Speaker 2: really mourning deaks and stuff too. And then you have
42:06
Speaker 2: your own like your family. He was the only parent
42:10
Speaker 2: figure at that moment, right.
42:12
Speaker 1: I think a lot of the reason why Randy kept
42:14
Speaker 1: as cool of a head as he did. Was he
42:17
Speaker 1: knew that if he gave in, if he shot at them,
42:20
Speaker 1: if he went out there, he knew it would have
42:22
Speaker 1: been used against him. And they were already trying to
42:25
Speaker 1: use things against him. The radio was already saying how
42:27
Speaker 1: he murdered a US marshal.
42:29
Speaker 2: And he wanted to be there for his family because like, yeah,
42:32
Speaker 2: I mean.
42:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, anything he did would have just given him more
42:35
Speaker 1: ammunition against him and his family.
42:37
Speaker 2: Like you're saying he's smart, he is. Yeah, he was thinking, yeah,
42:42
Speaker 2: two steps ahead. Yeah, Wow, what a story. This is
42:45
Speaker 2: just like bizarre.
42:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can thank Joe Rogan for me hearing this story. Actually,
42:50
Speaker 1: I was cruising Instagram and there was a clip of
42:52
Speaker 1: him on his podcast talking to someone about the Ruby
42:55
Speaker 1: Ridge incident, and I was like, the what now? And
42:58
Speaker 1: I gave it a quick Google and I was like
42:59
Speaker 1: the fuck.
43:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I don't. I don't necessarily feel satisfied
43:05
Speaker 2: right now.
43:06
Speaker 1: Well, I think there should be some satisfaction in knowing
43:09
Speaker 1: that there was charges that were acquitted, and there was
43:12
Speaker 1: lawsuits filed, and they did get some money in return,
43:16
Speaker 1: though I'm not saying money is in any way, shape
43:19
Speaker 1: or form a retribution for the lives that were lost,
43:23
Speaker 1: but it's something to help you move on. And not
43:27
Speaker 1: only that, it's so fucking good knowing that they didn't
43:32
Speaker 1: try fighting it because they know the fucking wrong. Well, yeah,
43:35
Speaker 1: they know what they fucking did.
43:37
Speaker 2: When something doesn't go to court and like gets paid
43:39
Speaker 2: up beforehand, there's reasons, yeah.
43:42
Speaker 1: Very big reasons.
43:43
Speaker 2: Yeah.
43:44
Speaker 1: So anyways, hopefully you guys enjoyed this two parter. We
43:48
Speaker 1: got some more one part is coming for you soon.
43:50
Speaker 1: We did a two parter recently and now this one,
43:53
Speaker 1: so we're going to stick to some one parties here
43:54
Speaker 1: for a little bit before we do another one, So
43:56
Speaker 1: give you guys a bit of a breather with that.
43:58
Speaker 1: But if you want to check out some of our socials,
44:00
Speaker 1: all the links are down below. We're very active on
44:02
Speaker 1: YouTube now we've got Patreon. We're doing some stuff over there.
44:04
Speaker 1: Get the exclusive behind the scenes and extra content like
44:08
Speaker 1: the extra episode at the end of the month every time,
44:11
Speaker 1: so you can go check all that out.
44:13
Speaker 2: Good job, thank you job on this one. You did
44:15
Speaker 2: really good.
44:16
Speaker 1: It was interesting. I know when I say that about
44:19
Speaker 1: so many cases, but it's like interesting is such a
44:22
Speaker 1: word that can describe so many of these in so
44:24
Speaker 1: many different ways, and that's exactly what this is. Very interesting, intriguing,
44:29
Speaker 1: and fucking sad, so sad. Anyways, my emotions are beside
44:35
Speaker 1: the point. We'll talk to you guys next time, and
44:37
Speaker 1: until then, stay wicked.