Latest / Roast the Post Podcast / Senior Manager, Partner Success: The CPG Hunger Games

Transcript

Senior Manager, Partner Success: The CPG Hunger Games · Roast the Post Podcast

0:09
SPEAKER_00: So, here we are.
0:13
SPEAKER_00: it's my week this week to bring a job post to the table.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: And this job post
0:18
SPEAKER_00: that I found, I find really interesting.
0:20
SPEAKER_00: It's really interesting for me because
0:25
SPEAKER_00: the role and the organization fits into startups and scale-ups and
0:31
SPEAKER_00: entrepreneurship.
0:32
SPEAKER_00: So this organization, they exist to help give
0:37
SPEAKER_00: a bit of a grassroots network and kind of a scaffolding for
0:42
SPEAKER_00: new companies that are in the CPG space, consumer packaged goods.
0:45
SPEAKER_00: And
0:47
there's a lot of companies,
0:48
startup companies in this industry association
0:52
SPEAKER_00: that are in food and beverage.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: And to me, that's really cool.
0:55
SPEAKER_00: It's like we're
0:56
innovating in food and beverage and there's this support
0:58
network around it
1:00
to help these companies grow because we all know there's tons
1:03
of competition in
1:05
CPG food and beverage like Coca-Cola and PepsiCo pretty much
1:08
own the entire
1:09
SPEAKER_00: planet when it comes to food and beverage, right?
1:11
SPEAKER_01: So the fact that
1:14
SPEAKER_01: this organization exists feels meaningful.
1:15
SPEAKER_01: I really kind of dig it.
1:15
SPEAKER_01: So
1:16
SPEAKER_01: this organization exists feels meaningful.
1:17
SPEAKER_01: I really kind of dig it.
1:17
SPEAKER_01: So
1:18
SPEAKER_01: that's why I'm super excited to get into it.
1:21
SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
1:21
SPEAKER_01: That sounds very interesting.
1:22
SPEAKER_01: And I think if you've been listening
1:26
for a while,
1:26
you know this,
1:27
but I think it's important to remind everyone that I
1:29
SPEAKER_01: have not seen this job posting whatsoever.
1:31
SPEAKER_01: We alternate.
1:33
SPEAKER_01: And so Paul's
1:34
SPEAKER_01: hosting, he chose the job posting.
1:34
SPEAKER_01: This is like absolutely new information,
1:38
which I think is always the best way to to approach it and to
1:40
give our true
1:43
SPEAKER_01: gut reaction.
1:43
SPEAKER_01: That's part of the reason why we do it, to the job
1:46
SPEAKER_01: postings.
1:46
SPEAKER_01: And when you're excited about the one that you're bringing in
1:52
SPEAKER_00: and what the company's trying to do, like yeah, it just makes it all that
1:56
SPEAKER_00: much better.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: So, really looking forward to this one.
1:59
Plus,
1:59
when we don't know what the other person is bringing to the
2:00
table,
2:01
it
2:02
gives us each a lot more opportunity to punk the other person,
2:05
which I feel like
2:06
SPEAKER_00: I enjoy more than you do.
2:06
SPEAKER_00: But you can start enjoying it any day of the week.
2:09
SPEAKER_00: I'm fine with it.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: Good point.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: All right.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: So this is the profile for the company.
2:17
SPEAKER_00: We'll start
2:18
SPEAKER_00: with the Roasty Profile as usual.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: The job title: Senior Manager, Partner
2:23
SPEAKER_00: Success.
2:23
SPEAKER_00: The report-to title: Head of Partnerships.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: The company size: 2 to 10
2:31
SPEAKER_00: employees.
2:31
SPEAKER_00: Oh!
2:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a small company.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: That's part of why I found this
2:37
SPEAKER_00: really interesting.
2:38
SPEAKER_00: The industry is Industry Associations.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: What do they do?
2:42
SPEAKER_00: They build and support the ecosystem behind new and emerging consumer
2:47
SPEAKER_00: packaged goods brands.
2:48
SPEAKER_00: They provide partnership, networking,
2:51
SPEAKER_00: training and development opportunities for startups in this space.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: Their head
2:56
SPEAKER_00: office location: New York, New York.
2:57
SPEAKER_00: The job location is remote anywhere in the
3:01
SPEAKER_00: US.
3:01
SPEAKER_00: The geographical operating area is North America.
3:03
SPEAKER_00: And they have kind of a
3:07
SPEAKER_00: Canada Slack channel, so they're active up here, too.
3:11
SPEAKER_00: The job type is "Full Time / Permanent."
3:17
SPEAKER_00: Now, to get into it, I'm going to read out the company's about statement,
3:26
SPEAKER_00: you know, in their own words, what they're all about, give everybody a
3:30
SPEAKER_00: little bit of context on who these folks are.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: And we don't name and shame on
3:34
SPEAKER_00: this show.
3:34
SPEAKER_00: So, you are going to hear me say the word "COMPANY" a lot instead of
3:39
SPEAKER_00: the name of the organization.
3:40
SPEAKER_00: Partly because Jen and I don't have lawyers and
3:43
partly because the show is not about naming and shaming,
3:45
even if we do get
3:47
SPEAKER_00: really critical about some of the things that we come across.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: So, COMPANY is the
3:52
SPEAKER_00: world's largest community for entrepreneurs in CPG consumer packaged
3:56
SPEAKER_00: goods with a 35,000 member Slack community and total media reach of
4:00
SPEAKER_00: 200,000 plus people.
4:01
SPEAKER_00: We're proud to partner with the leading service
4:05
providers across the CPG ecosystem to help them engage our
4:08
community through
4:09
SPEAKER_00: digital media and in-person event activations.
4:11
SPEAKER_00: That's how they describe
4:14
SPEAKER_00: themselves.
4:14
SPEAKER_00: Now, in going through the job description, there were some
4:19
SPEAKER_00: things that stood out to me that I kind of want to bring up and get
4:23
SPEAKER_00: your perspective on them, Jen, because they're they're kind of
4:27
SPEAKER_00: interesting.
4:27
SPEAKER_00: So, we know that this company is, you know, the organization,
4:30
SPEAKER_00: 2 to 10 people, small organization.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: The first thing that stood out to me is
4:35
they say in their kind of preamble to the role,
4:37
this is a player-coach role.
4:42
SPEAKER_00: You will act as a trusted advisor to partners externally and lead a small
4:48
SPEAKER_00: partner success team internally.
4:50
SPEAKER_00: 2 to 10 people total in this company.
4:56
SPEAKER_00: Does that kind of make you think anything?
5:01
SPEAKER_00: Partner success for me is like if there are 2 to 10 people in this
5:06
SPEAKER_01: organization and you're leading a dedicated partner success team, are
5:11
SPEAKER_01: there people doing other things, or is this it?
5:13
SPEAKER_01: That's the first thing that
5:14
SPEAKER_01: came to mind for me.
5:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think the first thing that comes
5:17
to mind with me is that I still don't understand what this
5:21
company is doing.
5:22
SPEAKER_01: Like I don't understand that "About Us", about the company
5:26
SPEAKER_01: description to me wasn't very clear.
5:28
SPEAKER_01: I don't get it.
5:28
SPEAKER_01: what are they doing?
5:30
SPEAKER_01: And I
5:31
think if I knew more about that,
5:32
like if you could say this,
5:33
this is an outcome
5:37
SPEAKER_01: of our company, of what our company does, then I think I would be
5:42
SPEAKER_01: better able to answer that.
5:44
SPEAKER_01: Because yeah, a company of 2 to 10 employees,
5:46
SPEAKER_01: it almost makes me wonder if they're like building towards something.
5:53
Because how they're already reporting to the head of Head of
5:56
Partnerships.
5:56
SPEAKER_01: Is
5:57
SPEAKER_01: that right?
5:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:57
SPEAKER_01: And then they have their own team,
6:02
but it's only 2 to 10 people and when we...
6:04
and like,
6:05
that's a category that
6:06
SPEAKER_01: LinkedIn has... you have to select a category from a dropdown, right?
6:10
SPEAKER_01: That
6:11
SPEAKER_01: could be two people, it could be 10 people, so it's really
6:17
SPEAKER_00: hard in that small category... it's really hard to understand how that
6:24
SPEAKER_00: works.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: I would love to see an org
6:26
SPEAKER_00: works.
6:26
SPEAKER_00: I would love to see an org
6:27
SPEAKER_00: structure for this industry association
6:30
SPEAKER_00: and see what the different titles are, and how it's all structured and
6:34
SPEAKER_00: shaped.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, doesn't give that to us, but I've definitely got some
6:38
SPEAKER_00: questions at this point.
6:39
SPEAKER_00: And you're right that, that description didn't
6:43
SPEAKER_00: really do them justice.
6:44
SPEAKER_00: So I have a little bit of the burden of knowledge
6:47
SPEAKER_00: going on, because I'm actually a member this organization and I am a part
6:52
SPEAKER_00: of their Slack channel.
6:53
SPEAKER_00: So I know what they're all about.
6:54
SPEAKER_00: But you're right that
6:55
just from that reading of it,
6:57
that few sentences,
6:58
an outsider has no idea what
7:01
SPEAKER_00: they're all about, what they're doing.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: Let's carry on
7:04
SPEAKER_00: though, going into the primary responsibilities.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: That's this section in the the job ad.
7:09
SPEAKER_00: Maybe before we do that,
7:12
SPEAKER_00: here are the sections for the job ad.
7:14
SPEAKER_00: This is loosely how it's
7:15
SPEAKER_00: structured.
7:15
SPEAKER_00: There's a section called Primary Responsibilities.
7:19
SPEAKER_00: There's a section called Campaign and Event Execution.
7:23
SPEAKER_00: There's a section called Retention, Renewals, and Expansion.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: There's a
7:28
SPEAKER_00: section called Team Leadership and Systems.
7:30
SPEAKER_00: There's a section called Ideal
7:34
SPEAKER_00: Candidate Profile.
7:34
SPEAKER_00: There's a section called Preferred
7:38
SPEAKER_00: Qualifications.
7:38
SPEAKER_00: And then at the very end of the job ad,
7:44
SPEAKER_00: there was a link that you clicked to, you know, start the process, fill
7:48
SPEAKER_00: things out.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: On that page, they actually have a really detailed questionnaire
7:51
SPEAKER_00: that you fill out with your application and it's just a Google Form.
7:53
SPEAKER_00: So, it's
7:54
SPEAKER_00: not a part of an ATS or anything like that.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: But it's lengthy.
7:57
SPEAKER_01: It's
7:58
SPEAKER_01: lengthy.
7:58
SPEAKER_01: We'll talk about that a little bit later, but it is there.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: And that was
8:02
SPEAKER_01: something that stood out for me as a little bit different from what you
8:05
SPEAKER_01: normally see in the recruiting process.
8:06
SPEAKER_01: I already have so many questions about
8:08
SPEAKER_01: that.
8:08
SPEAKER_01: But we'll get to it when we get to it, because I do find that really
8:12
SPEAKER_01: interesting.
8:12
SPEAKER_01: How they set that up, even just like the mechanics of it
8:17
because it it was on LinkedIn and then you click the apply and
8:19
it takes you to
8:20
SPEAKER_00: the Google Form.
8:21
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to tell me now.
8:22
SPEAKER_00: We'll talk about it.
8:23
SPEAKER_00: We'll get
8:24
SPEAKER_00: there.
8:24
SPEAKER_00: That is basically what it is.
8:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:29
SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
8:29
SPEAKER_00: Didn't know you could do that.
8:30
SPEAKER_00: So in the... it was kind of cool
8:32
SPEAKER_00: how they did it.
8:32
SPEAKER_00: I was impressed when I went through like their flow.
8:34
SPEAKER_00: In
8:36
SPEAKER_00: the primary responsibilities section, couple of things stood out for me.
8:39
SPEAKER_00: So
8:40
SPEAKER_00: two bullet points here.
8:41
SPEAKER_00: The first is "Act as the primary point of contact for
8:45
SPEAKER_00: partners owning day-to-day communication, issue resolution, and
8:50
SPEAKER_00: overall experience."
8:50
SPEAKER_00: And the other bullet point that stood out for me is "Operate
8:55
SPEAKER_00: resourcefully in a fast-moving environment, making thoughtful execution
9:00
SPEAKER_00: tradeoffs to balance partner goals, quality standards, and internal
9:05
SPEAKER_00: capacity."
9:05
SPEAKER_00: So those are kind of part of your primary responsibilities.
9:08
SPEAKER_00: And for a
9:10
little bit more context,
9:11
there's a call out in the job ad that says partner
9:15
SPEAKER_00: ownership and relationship management.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: So really that's that's kind of your
9:19
SPEAKER_00: job.
9:19
SPEAKER_00: your job is going to be own partnership relationships, manage them
9:23
SPEAKER_00: and grow them over time.
9:24
SPEAKER_00: Now, in isolation, those two bullet points, they
9:28
don't tell us a whole lot,
9:29
but as I get into the other things that stood out a
9:32
bit for me,
9:32
I think that the picture is going to become a little bit
9:35
clearer of
9:36
SPEAKER_01: what this is all about.
9:38
SPEAKER_00: So, in...
9:41
SPEAKER_00: who are their partners?
9:42
SPEAKER_00: Is it the packaged goods
9:45
SPEAKER_00: companies?
9:46
SPEAKER_00: So that's a great question.
9:47
SPEAKER_00: So
9:49
their members are people who are working in CPG companies,
9:51
but their partners and
9:58
they don't actually spell this out in the job ad...
10:00
their partners,
10:01
though,
10:03
SPEAKER_00: are organizations that would be service providers to those companies.
10:07
SPEAKER_00: So, think
10:10
like,
10:10
you know,
10:10
I'm a CPG company and I'm going to bring in somebody who has a
10:17
co-packing plant to do a webinar with us,
10:19
that the members then come to and
10:22
SPEAKER_00: then that partner would be charged a fee to participate in that.
10:27
SPEAKER_00: So, the membership in the community is is actually free.
10:30
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to pay
10:31
SPEAKER_01: to become a member, as long as you work for a CPG firm, but the
10:36
SPEAKER_01: partners are charged fees.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: So, they're serving the members who are free, but
10:40
SPEAKER_01: they're making money from the partnerships,
10:43
SPEAKER_01: Right.
10:43
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
10:45
SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking about other other models.
10:47
SPEAKER_01: We
10:49
SPEAKER_01: talked about something kind of kind of similar before, offline.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: So, I think
10:55
SPEAKER_01: if you recall, that's ringing a bell to me anyway.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to
10:58
SPEAKER_01: talk about it on the podcast, but yeah, this makes a little bit more
11:02
sense to me now.
11:02
SPEAKER_01: It makes me feel like an old, like, "get off my lawn man"
11:08
because I'm like...
11:08
wow you can really make a business out of anything these days,
11:12
SPEAKER_01: you know?
11:12
SPEAKER_01: That's how this feels to me right now because it
11:16
SPEAKER_01: feels very vague and very like... what is that elevator pitch, right?
11:19
SPEAKER_01: Like
11:23
SPEAKER_01: what does your company $#%& do?
11:24
SPEAKER_01: Just tell me what you do.
11:26
SPEAKER_00: If I told my
11:27
SPEAKER_00: mom I was going to work for a company like this, she
11:30
SPEAKER_00: would be like, "Is this a real company?"
11:32
SPEAKER_00: Like that's how it feels right now to
11:34
SPEAKER_01: me.
11:34
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: It's... that's a
11:39
SPEAKER_00: really interesting perspective.
11:40
SPEAKER_00: It's a really interesting perspective, because
11:43
SPEAKER_00: on the face of it, doesn't look like there's a lot here.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: Definitely doesn't
11:47
SPEAKER_00: look like there's a lot that's defensible.
11:49
SPEAKER_00: If you think about an
11:50
SPEAKER_00: entrepreneurial organization, you're building a business.
11:51
SPEAKER_00: You're competing in
11:55
SPEAKER_00: the market against other businesses.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: There's nothing about this model that is
11:59
SPEAKER_00: super defensible.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: What prevents someone else from copying you and doing
12:02
SPEAKER_00: a better job at it?
12:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:04
SPEAKER_00: Nothing.
12:05
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely nothing.
12:06
SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
12:07
SPEAKER_00: In the next section, campaign and event execution.
12:12
SPEAKER_00: So that heading kind of stands out a little bit to me as well.
12:15
SPEAKER_00: You
12:18
know,
12:18
you're a partnership manager,
12:19
but a part of your job responsibilities are
12:23
SPEAKER_00: marketing campaigns and execution, right?
12:25
SPEAKER_00: That's kind of interesting to me.
12:29
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to read out all of the points.
12:33
SPEAKER_00: Lead execution of partner campaigns across multiple activations,
12:37
SPEAKER_00: stakeholders, and timelines.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: Manage partner related event logistics assets,
12:42
SPEAKER_00: and on-site execution as as required.
12:45
SPEAKER_00: Ensure all partner activations are
12:47
SPEAKER_00: delivered on time, accurately, and at a consistently high standard.
12:55
SPEAKER_00: So here we're kind of building a story where you're in charge of managing
13:00
relationships with partners,
13:02
the people who are funding the company basically
13:04
SPEAKER_00: through those fees.
13:04
SPEAKER_00: You're also essentially leading the execution of
13:10
SPEAKER_00: events, activations, popups, whatever else it might be.
13:12
SPEAKER_00: Like you're kind of
13:15
SPEAKER_00: the person who is running that show.
13:17
SPEAKER_00: So we can see how these two things are kind
13:19
SPEAKER_01: of coalescing together a little bit.
13:21
SPEAKER_01: Does anything kind of come to mind
13:26
SPEAKER_01: at this point or do you want me to keep going and read more?
13:28
No,
13:28
it just like my initial thoughts are that like this is the kind
13:31
of role where
13:34
SPEAKER_01: you're going to wear many hats.
13:34
SPEAKER_01: So you're going to do a lot, a little bit of
13:37
SPEAKER_01: everything.
13:38
SPEAKER_01: And it also...
13:38
SPEAKER_01: I think the only question that's popping into my
13:42
SPEAKER_00: head right now is what are the people reporting to you going to be doing?
13:48
SPEAKER_00: That's kind of the question that I have.
13:49
SPEAKER_00: But no, absolutely.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: Go on.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I had that question too when I first read through this and the
13:55
thing that came to mind for me was...
13:57
okay the people who are reporting to you,
13:59
SPEAKER_01: this small partnership team, do they exist yet?
14:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm not sure that they do.
14:04
This is what I said at the top of this...
14:05
like do you actually have any direct
14:09
SPEAKER_00: reports yet or are you building towards something?
14:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
14:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:13
SPEAKER_00: And with that 2 - 10 number of employees thing, you
14:15
can start to see this take shape where it's like,
14:17
oh,
14:17
okay,
14:17
so this partnership
14:19
SPEAKER_00: team probably doesn't exist yet.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: You've got to build towards it.
14:21
SPEAKER_00: So it almost
14:24
suggests that you're going to come in,
14:26
you're going to be the only person doing
14:28
SPEAKER_01: this.
14:29
SPEAKER_01: You've got to grow the revenue, the book of business, to be able to
14:32
SPEAKER_01: justify hiring people under you.
14:33
SPEAKER_01: And once you do that, hire people.
14:36
SPEAKER_01: It almost feels like that.
14:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:38
SPEAKER_01: I wanted to be like, "Ooh, I
14:43
SPEAKER_01: think that it's one person in this company,
14:47
SPEAKER_01: hiring their first hire."
14:47
SPEAKER_01: This is what it sounds like to me.
14:49
SPEAKER_01: It's one person
14:51
like the founder,
14:51
CEO,
14:52
founder,
14:52
and they've been doing everything on their
14:55
SPEAKER_01: own and they're like, "Okay, I need to hire someone."
14:57
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes you
14:59
SPEAKER_01: inflate it to make it sound a lot bigger than it is.
15:01
SPEAKER_01: I remember I worked
15:03
for a company and the website said like New York and like all
15:05
these hubs that it
15:10
implied that we had offices there when really it's like,
15:11
no,
15:11
we have one employee
15:16
SPEAKER_01: who works there, like, in that state or that province or whatever.
15:18
SPEAKER_01: And so it
15:19
kind of feels like that,
15:19
and you do it because it makes you sound way more
15:21
SPEAKER_01: important than you are.
15:22
SPEAKER_01: But to me it feels like maybe this is a one-person
15:26
SPEAKER_01: show.
15:26
SPEAKER_01: This is their first role or it's like the senior, what the head of the
15:31
SPEAKER_01: head of partnerships or whatever, that one person is.
15:34
SPEAKER_01: Then they need to
15:35
take a bunch of stuff off their plate and then if this person
15:37
is successful,
15:39
SPEAKER_01: like you said, then they can start building that team.
15:41
SPEAKER_01: Because, again, your
15:43
SPEAKER_00: 2 - 10 employees... that could even be one, because I don't know
15:46
SPEAKER_01: if there's a zero to one dropdown option.
15:48
SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of what it
15:52
SPEAKER_01: reads like.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: Maybe the head of partnerships is the
15:55
SPEAKER_01: founder.
15:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this is what it seems like, right?
15:56
SPEAKER_01: And they and they are doing
15:59
this because they were a networked person and they saw a need
16:02
for this in the
16:03
SPEAKER_00: market and they're like, I'm gonna start doing this.
16:05
SPEAKER_00: Did it say, by
16:06
SPEAKER_00: any chance, when this company was established?
16:09
SPEAKER_00: Do we have a...
16:11
SPEAKER_00: No.
16:11
SPEAKER_00: No, it didn't.
16:11
SPEAKER_00: It didn't.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: If I had to guess though, I would say
16:15
SPEAKER_01: during COVID, and that's completely anecdotal.
16:17
SPEAKER_00: Just based on kind of my
16:20
SPEAKER_00: own experiences being a part of some of these events, virtual events.
16:22
SPEAKER_00: Anyway,
16:25
SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool.
16:25
SPEAKER_00: In the next section, Retention,
16:30
Renewals,
16:30
and Expansion...
16:31
few points in here that I wanted to kind of highlight.
16:34
SPEAKER_00: The first one is "Ensure partners see clear ROI from their campaigns and
16:40
SPEAKER_00: activations and understand how COMPANY drives value for their business."
16:46
Next point is "Identify opportunities to deepen partnerships
16:48
through additional
16:51
SPEAKER_00: activations, formats or programs based on partner goals and performance."
16:55
SPEAKER_00: And
16:56
then the last point that stood out for me is "Stay ahead of
17:00
renewal timelines by
17:02
maintaining strong relationships,
17:04
clear performance narratives,
17:05
and proactive
17:08
SPEAKER_01: communication."
17:09
SPEAKER_01: Starting to sound a little bit like a
17:11
SPEAKER_01: sales role, isn't it?
17:12
SPEAKER_01: It's definitely a sales role.
17:13
SPEAKER_01: Account
17:15
SPEAKER_01: Manager, sales role.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, kind of tapping into their own potentially existing network.
17:23
SPEAKER_01: But
17:24
SPEAKER_00: yeah, it definitely feels again this is just reinforcing our assumption
17:30
SPEAKER_00: that this is like a wear-many-hats type of role.
17:33
SPEAKER_00: The last five or six points that I wanted to kind of surface for the
17:39
SPEAKER_00: conversation is in the Ideal Candidate Profile section.
17:41
SPEAKER_00: So, one of the
17:45
points says,
17:46
"You're comfortable leading renewal and upsell conversations
17:49
with
17:50
partners,
17:51
including scoping positioning and closing expanded
17:54
partnerships."
17:55
SPEAKER_00: Salesy Sales.
17:58
SPEAKER_00: "Strong operator mindset with the ability to make sound judgment calls.
18:00
SPEAKER_00: Manage
18:01
SPEAKER_00: ambiguity and keep moving."
18:01
SPEAKER_00: Not sales, definitely operations.
18:08
"Commercially minded with a strong understanding of how
18:10
execution quality,
18:13
SPEAKER_00: responsiveness, and trust drive renewals and long-term partnerships."
18:18
SPEAKER_00: Next point is "Comfortable using tools such as Notion, Eventbrite, Canva,
18:24
SPEAKER_00: HubSpot, and other project management platforms."
18:28
SPEAKER_00: And then the last point that
18:30
stood out was "Ability to travel 20% to 30% of the time
18:32
annually,
18:32
with heavier
18:34
SPEAKER_00: travel during major industry event seasons."
18:38
SPEAKER_00: And then there are some other things that, when we break for the
18:41
SPEAKER_00: intermission, and you read the job ad in its entirety, there are
18:45
SPEAKER_00: some other things in there that'll kind of stand out to you.
18:47
SPEAKER_00: But those are the
18:48
SPEAKER_00: ones that I kind of wanted to bring together because we're seeing a
18:51
SPEAKER_00: bit of a narrative here where... and I think it's very
18:57
SPEAKER_01: on point where you said this is probably their first hire.
19:00
SPEAKER_01: To me, this is
19:02
starting to read a little bit like this might actually be their
19:03
first hire and
19:05
SPEAKER_00: they're trying to hire themselves.
19:06
SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you mean?
19:07
SPEAKER_00: Tell me more
19:11
SPEAKER_00: about that.
19:11
SPEAKER_00: Like a duplication of themselves.
19:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:13
SPEAKER_00: Because this, you think about the context, right?
19:15
SPEAKER_00: Like if
19:16
this is an organization that's one person,
19:17
they're doing everything,
19:18
and you
19:21
know maybe they've got like a virtual assistant,
19:22
maybe they've got like some
19:25
SPEAKER_00: kind of freelance contractor support around them.
19:26
SPEAKER_00: They probably do.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: But
19:29
SPEAKER_00: there's really only one person in the organization.
19:32
SPEAKER_00: So they are doing
19:33
everything and they've obviously grown it to a point where it's
19:36
worked,
19:37
and they
19:39
SPEAKER_00: have what they see as a viable business.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: So now they're like, "Okay, I got
19:44
SPEAKER_00: this from 0 to 1, so another me can help get it from 1 to 100."
19:47
SPEAKER_00: And you see
19:52
SPEAKER_00: throughout this job ad, like they're looking for someone who can do
19:56
SPEAKER_00: business development, which is really what partnerships is, right?
19:58
SPEAKER_00: It's
19:59
SPEAKER_00: business development.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: It's long-term relationship building and management.
20:03
SPEAKER_00: They're looking for someone who is also doing events.
20:05
SPEAKER_00: So they're doing
20:07
SPEAKER_00: pop-ups, they're doing trade shows, they're doing these activations.
20:09
SPEAKER_00: They're
20:11
SPEAKER_00: also looking for someone who's doing sales.
20:13
SPEAKER_00: They specifically call out
20:16
SPEAKER_00: upselling.
20:17
SPEAKER_00: They're also looking for someone who can use a web browser, which
20:21
is what you need to be able to do to use Notion,
20:22
Eventbrite,
20:23
Canva,
20:24
HubSpot,
20:24
and
20:25
SPEAKER_00: other PM platforms.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: It's a more modern take on... "can you use Office?"
20:31
SPEAKER_00: But it's still the same thing, right?
20:32
SPEAKER_00: Like
20:33
SPEAKER_00: of course you can or you can learn it.
20:34
SPEAKER_00: Don't be silly.
20:35
SPEAKER_00: But all in,
20:37
SPEAKER_00: this really to me... you think about those different
20:41
SPEAKER_01: capabilities and competencies a one-person company would absolutely, you
20:45
SPEAKER_01: know, they would have those to be successful and your first logical
20:49
SPEAKER_01: thought is like...
20:50
SPEAKER_01: I just need to clone myself.
20:52
SPEAKER_01: I think you're absolutely right.
20:53
SPEAKER_01: Like I think we're both right.
20:55
SPEAKER_01: I think it's a
20:56
SPEAKER_01: one-person team.
20:57
SPEAKER_01: I think they're trying to clone themselves so that they can
21:01
SPEAKER_01: scale that way.
21:02
SPEAKER_01: But I think an important reminder
21:04
for everyone listening is that you do not scale successfully by
21:06
duplicating
21:10
SPEAKER_01: yourself.
21:10
SPEAKER_01: That's actually like the worst thing that you can do.
21:12
SPEAKER_01: I
21:16
SPEAKER_01: think that's just important.
21:17
SPEAKER_01: I think some some folks have figured that out,
21:20
some don't,
21:20
and they just think if there were two of me,
21:22
think how much more I
21:23
SPEAKER_01: could do.
21:23
SPEAKER_01: And that's just not what you're trying to do.
21:24
SPEAKER_01: It's not strategic
21:26
SPEAKER_01: whatsoever.
21:26
SPEAKER_01: Curious to like and I just a lot of what we discuss, there are
21:33
SPEAKER_01: a lot of assumptions that we make because we take the time to deep dive
21:36
SPEAKER_01: into these.
21:36
SPEAKER_01: We maybe try to do a little bit of back searching or research in
21:41
SPEAKER_01: the background.
21:41
SPEAKER_01: But the hardest part is not knowing.
21:43
SPEAKER_01: The hardest part is not
21:46
SPEAKER_01: knowing if we're right.
21:48
SPEAKER_01: I feel like we are, and I think we've been
21:52
doing this for long enough now,
21:53
like not just the podcast,
21:54
but our own experience,
21:56
SPEAKER_01: that I think that we're pretty Bang-on on most of the time.
21:58
SPEAKER_01: Do
22:02
SPEAKER_01: they mention... there are two questions I have.
22:03
SPEAKER_00: Do they mention the need for a
22:06
vehicle or heavy lifting or moving things,
22:07
being able to stand for long...
22:11
SPEAKER_01: Is there anything about the physical requirements or having a car?
22:14
SPEAKER_01: No,
22:15
SPEAKER_01: they don't.
22:15
SPEAKER_01: They don't actually.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: And given that there is a whole lot of
22:19
SPEAKER_01: travel, that kind of surprises me a little bit.
22:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, me too.
22:21
SPEAKER_01: Me too.
22:21
SPEAKER_01: And I worry for people who
22:25
SPEAKER_01: don't make that distinction that they will go down.
22:27
SPEAKER_01: Like the candidate who's
22:30
SPEAKER_01: into this job and doesn't have a car ain't going to tell you that, right?
22:34
SPEAKER_01: They're going to wait until there's an offer on the table.
22:36
SPEAKER_01: And the hiring
22:37
manager isn't thinking like,
22:37
"Oh $%*&,
22:38
I need to make sure that they have a way
22:41
SPEAKER_01: to like get to these events and stuff like that.
22:42
SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, I'm picking them
22:44
SPEAKER_01: up and we're carpooling everywhere."
22:45
SPEAKER_01: And again, that's where you go back to
22:47
like well,
22:47
you're not really...
22:48
like you don't really want to duplicate yourself
22:51
SPEAKER_01: because like are you both going to the like that kind of thing.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: It is
22:54
SPEAKER_01: really important to make that, if that is a requirement of the job.
22:56
SPEAKER_01: If
22:59
they're doing 20% to 30% travel,
23:00
like that needs to be a screening question in
23:04
SPEAKER_01: their questionnaire that they have linked.
23:05
SPEAKER_01: And if it's not, then
23:10
you will be surprised how many people will apply for a job and
23:11
and seem like a
23:14
SPEAKER_00: really great candidate who don't have some fundamental requirement that
23:18
SPEAKER_00: you forgot to address right from the get-go for this job.
23:20
SPEAKER_00: So, that was one
23:22
SPEAKER_00: of my questions.
23:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:23
SPEAKER_00: Or even even it's... maybe it's not
23:26
necessarily...
23:26
and I would argue actually that it's probably not
23:28
necessarily...
23:28
you
23:29
need to have a car,
23:30
but more so you need to have a license because I can see
23:34
maybe getting by with 20% to 30% travel especially,
23:37
being home-based in New York
23:39
SPEAKER_00: City, where you can fly to where you're going, but you're going to
23:44
SPEAKER_01: need to be able to drive... like do you think that Omaha, Nebraska has
23:50
SPEAKER_01: fantastic public transit?
23:50
SPEAKER_01: It does not.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: You're gonna have to rent a car.
23:56
SPEAKER_01: But then I think about those banners that you pull down and all
23:58
SPEAKER_01: the equipment that you have to bring with you when you're going to these
24:01
SPEAKER_01: kinds of events, trade shows or whatever and
24:04
SPEAKER_01: the lifting thing for sure.
24:05
SPEAKER_01: Right.
24:05
SPEAKER_01: So, so that kind of
24:09
SPEAKER_01: was one thing.
24:09
SPEAKER_01: The other can... you didn't touch on this, but I
24:13
think it might shed a little bit of light when we talk about...
24:15
you'll have a team
24:16
SPEAKER_00: reporting to you or whatever.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: The section that you said is called Team
24:22
SPEAKER_00: Leadership and Systems... what was under there for team
24:26
SPEAKER_00: leadership?
24:26
SPEAKER_00: None of these really stood out to
24:32
SPEAKER_00: me as worthy of... you know, kind of roasting.
24:35
SPEAKER_00: Basically,
24:40
the things that are in this section are you'll lead and mentor
24:44
a small team
24:46
with a focus on kind of showing them how to be impactful when
24:48
it comes to the
24:51
SPEAKER_00: partner experience.
24:51
SPEAKER_00: So basically they're saying like you're going to have to
24:55
SPEAKER_00: build a business development team and mentor them over time.
24:58
SPEAKER_00: Which to
24:59
SPEAKER_00: me suggests like the expectation is you're going to hire young and
25:03
SPEAKER_00: inexperienced.
25:03
SPEAKER_00: It also talks a little bit about remaining directly involved in
25:09
SPEAKER_00: work with the partners on campaigns.
25:09
SPEAKER_00: So again, this kind of says, hey...
25:14
SPEAKER_00: you're going to have a team around you that's not as experienced.
25:16
SPEAKER_00: So even
25:18
though you're training them and leading them and whatnot,
25:20
you're still going to
25:21
SPEAKER_00: have to be kind of elbows up in the actual work for your clients.
25:24
SPEAKER_00: It
25:25
SPEAKER_01: talks a little bit too about building and refining systems, templates
25:31
SPEAKER_01: and workflows.
25:31
SPEAKER_01: So you're putting in place kind of the operational framework
25:34
SPEAKER_01: for your team which kind of goes along with it, right?
25:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:37
SPEAKER_01: But it sounds like potentially for the organization as well.
25:39
SPEAKER_01: So again going
25:41
SPEAKER_01: back to like sales, BD,
25:45
SPEAKER_00: operations like it's that little little bit of everything.
25:47
SPEAKER_00: Okay, that
25:49
SPEAKER_00: that did clarify some some for me but not really.
25:51
SPEAKER_00: So,
25:53
SPEAKER_00: I think to your point that also lends a little bit of weight to
25:58
SPEAKER_00: to the fact that this is all net-new and it doesn't explicitly say in
26:04
SPEAKER_00: the job post that that this role is net-new and it doesn't explicitly say
26:10
SPEAKER_00: that the team underneath this role is net-new.
26:11
SPEAKER_00: But I think we can kind of
26:14
SPEAKER_00: conclude that that's what's going on.
26:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
26:18
SPEAKER_00: So, here we are at, I would say, probably my favourite part of the show.
26:25
SPEAKER_00: The part of the show where Jen gets to guess the salary.
26:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you get to guess the salary.
26:31
SPEAKER_00: Now, this is New York City.
26:33
SPEAKER_00: Salary is going
26:35
to be in USD,
26:35
2 to 10 people,
26:36
small organization,
26:39
and basically an industry
26:42
SPEAKER_00: organization.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: It's not a nonprofit, it's a for-profit, but it's kind of in
26:48
SPEAKER_01: that same vein.
26:48
SPEAKER_01: This is a senior level role.
26:49
SPEAKER_01: At least it's titled as a senior
26:51
SPEAKER_01: level role.
26:51
SPEAKER_01: What do you think this is worth?
26:55
SPEAKER_01: I don't even... couldn't even tell you.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: Is it
27:00
SPEAKER_01: listed as an annual salary or hourly?
27:01
SPEAKER_01: It is listed as annual.
27:05
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
27:05
I mean kudos to this person,
27:06
we are assuming as one person to build this out
27:11
SPEAKER_01: and to get it to a point where they can pay someone an annual salary.
27:16
SPEAKER_01: It's interesting, because you said like considering this is a senior
27:19
SPEAKER_01: manager role.
27:20
SPEAKER_01: Is it?
27:20
SPEAKER_01: I don't think it is.
27:21
SPEAKER_01: I really don't think it is.
27:23
SPEAKER_01: It's
27:24
SPEAKER_01: an inflated title.
27:24
SPEAKER_01: They're giving senior, hoping to try to get, you know,
27:31
SPEAKER_01: increase that candidate pool.
27:32
SPEAKER_00: Paul, I we know.
27:32
SPEAKER_00: I hate this so much.
27:33
SPEAKER_00: I
27:38
SPEAKER_01: hate I... Why do I hate it?
27:39
SPEAKER_01: I think I hate it because it's so embarrassing.
27:41
SPEAKER_01: Like
27:42
SPEAKER_01: I think I like it so much because you hate it so much.
27:45
SPEAKER_01: I really think that's
27:46
SPEAKER_01: what's going on.
27:47
SPEAKER_01: I hate it so much.
27:47
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
27:51
SPEAKER_01: USD $65,000
27:54
SPEAKER_00: That's my guess.
27:54
SPEAKER_00: You think?
27:55
SPEAKER_00: Oh, higher.
27:55
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you
27:58
SPEAKER_00: think it's higher?
27:59
SPEAKER_00: It's you're looking at it right there.a
28:02
SPEAKER_01: USD $80,000 - USD $85,000?
28:04
SPEAKER_00: You're close.
28:05
SPEAKER_00: You're close.
28:05
SPEAKER_01: So the range that they posted, and this is in US
28:07
SPEAKER_00: dollars, is USD $90,000 to USD $115,000 based on...
28:11
SPEAKER_00: No, they can't afford it!
28:14
SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah...
28:17
SPEAKER_00: I... that.... this is something that
28:20
SPEAKER_00: raises some question marks for me, if they're going to pay that much of a
28:25
SPEAKER_00: salary for this role with this small of an organization, they've either
28:29
uncovered phenomenal leverage points or this partnership model
28:33
is bringing in
28:36
SPEAKER_01: a good chunk of change and they've realized they're on to something.
28:38
SPEAKER_01: Now,
28:39
on top of the salary range,
28:40
they're also saying that a part of the comp package
28:44
SPEAKER_01: is a performance-based bonus.
28:45
SPEAKER_00: No more details on that question.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: I was like, is
28:49
SPEAKER_00: that salary including a performance-based bonus or is
28:56
SPEAKER_00: that...
28:56
SPEAKER_01: The way it's written, I don't think so.
29:00
I think the performance bonus is on top of the salary range,
29:03
just based on the way
29:04
SPEAKER_01: it's written.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: But you could be right, right?
29:05
SPEAKER_01: I can see it fitting that
29:09
range if they are including what they estimate to be bonuses in
29:13
there,
29:15
but as
29:16
SPEAKER_00: a base salary, I am sorry.
29:16
SPEAKER_00: I don't think you can afford it and you need to
29:23
SPEAKER_00: rethink that.
29:24
SPEAKER_00: Now, here's another thing...
29:28
SPEAKER_01: It also says that they include medical, dental, and vision
29:31
SPEAKER_01: benefits.
29:31
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
29:33
SPEAKER_01: And in the US, that is not cheap.
29:34
SPEAKER_01: That is not cheap.
29:34
SPEAKER_01: And if you're a small
29:38
SPEAKER_01: company, it's really hard to get good packages, because they want you...
29:44
SPEAKER_01: the bigger the company, the better the packages.
29:45
SPEAKER_01: So, it's, this... is a huge
29:48
SPEAKER_01: investment into this.
29:49
SPEAKER_01: And that's why I asked
29:52
about how long they've been doing this for because if they've
29:54
been doing it for
29:55
SPEAKER_01: a while and they've been successful, that's great.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: But it makes me think a
29:59
little bit about...
30:00
you know like when you watch in Canada it's Dragon's Den in
30:04
SPEAKER_01: the US it's Shark Tank or whatever.
30:07
SPEAKER_01: When the person's in there and
30:11
SPEAKER_00: they're like, "I've been doing this for 25 years and I've
30:15
SPEAKER_01: invested, you know, $3 million of my own money."
30:16
SPEAKER_01: And you're just like... noooo,
30:22
SPEAKER_01: you can't afford that.
30:23
SPEAKER_01: Stop, honey.
30:23
SPEAKER_01: No.
30:24
SPEAKER_01: And this is how I feel.
30:25
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, why
30:26
don't you just make it a little bit of a more junior role and
30:28
pay it a little bit
30:32
SPEAKER_01: lower because I worry for this company or this person.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: Again, making up a whole
30:36
SPEAKER_00: narrative in my head about who this person is.
30:39
SPEAKER_00: Maybe there's no need
30:41
SPEAKER_00: to worry, but I am flabbergasted at the salary.
30:45
SPEAKER_00: It is.
30:45
SPEAKER_00: I was really surprised that it is what it was because that's a pretty
30:53
fair range for what I'm seeing in this job description and the
30:56
fact that it's
30:57
SPEAKER_00: like 2 to 10 employees and it's an industry association.
30:59
SPEAKER_00: I was
31:01
SPEAKER_00: shocked that they were paying like fairly.
31:02
SPEAKER_00: Now, it might be a 2,000 hour a
31:06
SPEAKER_01: week job, so maybe it isn't that great based on the amount of time that
31:12
SPEAKER_01: you'll have to put into it, but on paper doesn't look too shabby.
31:15
SPEAKER_01: They're betting
31:16
SPEAKER_01: on this person.
31:16
SPEAKER_01: Like it sounds like they are betting on this person and willing
31:21
SPEAKER_01: to put their money where their mouth is.
31:22
SPEAKER_01: Is that the
31:26
SPEAKER_01: saying?
31:26
SPEAKER_01: So it sounds like that I, I'm
31:32
SPEAKER_01: very...
31:32
SPEAKER_01: I'm happy and impressed.
31:33
SPEAKER_01: But I think that when we go back to a lot of
31:37
times people trying to duplicate,
31:38
clone themselves to scale their company then I
31:43
SPEAKER_00: get concerned.
31:43
SPEAKER_00: I go back to being concerned about them and whether or
31:46
SPEAKER_00: not this is the right move.
31:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:47
SPEAKER_00: People at home who are thinking of
31:50
starting a business or who are starting to scale their
31:54
business,
31:54
don't clone
31:55
SPEAKER_00: yourself and count on that for success, because it amplifies not only
31:59
the good things,
31:59
the qualities that you have that have really helped you be
32:05
SPEAKER_00: successful.
32:05
SPEAKER_00: It amplifies the bad things and the gaps too.
32:07
SPEAKER_00: And you have them.
32:08
SPEAKER_00: We
32:10
SPEAKER_01: all have them.
32:10
SPEAKER_01: When those gaps get amplified, it creates more risk inside
32:14
SPEAKER_01: the organization.
32:15
SPEAKER_01: So look for people who balance out what you're good at, not
32:18
SPEAKER_01: people who add to what you're good at.
32:19
SPEAKER_01: This is it.
32:19
SPEAKER_01: You're already good at it.
32:23
SPEAKER_01: That's fine.
32:23
SPEAKER_01: Like phenomenal.
32:24
SPEAKER_01: But really identify, be honest with yourself.
32:27
SPEAKER_01: What
32:28
SPEAKER_01: are my gaps?
32:29
SPEAKER_01: Where have I struggled?
32:30
SPEAKER_01: Where have I failed?
32:31
SPEAKER_01: What do I find
32:32
SPEAKER_01: really hard?
32:33
SPEAKER_01: Like what makes me what drains my battery?
32:35
SPEAKER_01: and then go find
32:37
SPEAKER_01: someone who... who... yeah fills all of those gaps.
32:39
SPEAKER_01: And then then you're going to
32:43
start to see and then and then when they start hiring their
32:46
team,
32:46
you want to
32:48
SPEAKER_01: make sure that they're doing the same thing.
32:49
SPEAKER_01: They are looking to hire people
32:51
SPEAKER_01: who fill their own gaps, and supplement what it is that they don't
32:55
SPEAKER_01: bring to the table.
32:56
SPEAKER_01: Like that's how you scale and that's how you
33:01
SPEAKER_01: don't just have a whole bunch of, like, bros
33:04
SPEAKER_01: doing the same thing, right?
33:04
SPEAKER_01: I picture in my head that room of, like,
33:10
monkeys smoking cigarettes and they all have a typewriter and
33:12
it's like they're
33:14
SPEAKER_00: all just doing the same thing over and over again.
33:17
SPEAKER_00: Don't do that.
33:18
SPEAKER_00: Like expand,
33:19
SPEAKER_00: diversify and grow and scale successfully.
33:24
SPEAKER_00: Fantastic segue for us to go into our intermission.
33:26
SPEAKER_00: We're going to take a
33:28
SPEAKER_00: short break.
33:31
Jen and I will both read through the job ad, verbatim, and we'll
33:33
come back shortly with the final scores and some advice and wrap-ups.
33:37
Stay
33:49
SPEAKER_00: Okay folks, we are back.
33:49
SPEAKER_00: Jen has had
33:53
an opportunity to read through the job ad,
33:55
and I gave it a little skim through
33:57
SPEAKER_00: myself.
33:57
SPEAKER_00: Time to come up with the scores.
33:59
SPEAKER_00: So, Jen,
34:01
SPEAKER_00: you've read through this.
34:01
SPEAKER_00: What do you think this job is scored at?
34:04
SPEAKER_00: What would
34:09
SPEAKER_01: you score it as, from the perspective of the job ad itself, how
34:15
SPEAKER_01: was it written?
34:15
SPEAKER_01: How was it structured?
34:16
SPEAKER_01: Was it effective in communicating?
34:17
SPEAKER_01: How
34:18
SPEAKER_01: would you score that part of it?
34:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it was effective in
34:21
SPEAKER_01: communicating.
34:21
SPEAKER_01: I'm just, like, there are certain parts that were redundant.
34:25
SPEAKER_01: Like, they have an Ideal Candidate Profile, but then they have Preferred
34:30
SPEAKER_01: Qualifications.
34:30
SPEAKER_01: And I find that they're like repeating themselves a few times
34:32
SPEAKER_01: there.
34:32
SPEAKER_01: So, they could have... there's some some trimming and stuff that they
34:39
SPEAKER_01: could do.
34:39
SPEAKER_01: It's the layout as well is interesting to me.
34:41
SPEAKER_01: Under primary
34:45
responsibilities...
34:45
then they have these other categories,
34:47
but I don't know if
34:48
SPEAKER_01: those should have just been under... are they meant to be under Primary
34:52
SPEAKER_01: Responsibilities?
34:52
SPEAKER_01: Are they a different kind of like part of the job?
34:55
SPEAKER_01: So, it's a
34:56
SPEAKER_01: little bit... it could have been structured a little
35:01
SPEAKER_01: bit better, but it is by no means the worst that I have seen.
35:05
SPEAKER_01: It has a
35:08
SPEAKER_01: reporting structure.
35:08
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mention
35:14
SPEAKER_01: accommodations or use of AI or anything like that, but they do post the
35:18
SPEAKER_01: salary.
35:18
SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, definitely not the worst I've seen.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: Just a couple of
35:23
little changes here and there in terms of how they've
35:25
structured it and some of
35:27
SPEAKER_01: the wording.
35:27
SPEAKER_00: So I would say to me it's probably like I don't know six and
35:32
SPEAKER_00: a half...
35:32
SPEAKER_00: I'd say seven.
35:32
SPEAKER_00: That's for the job posting itself.
35:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:39
SPEAKER_01: How about the role design?
35:39
SPEAKER_01: Thinking about the role, how it was
35:41
SPEAKER_01: structured, the responsibilities, you know, the reasonableness of it, the
35:45
SPEAKER_01: sustainability of it.
35:46
SPEAKER_01: How would you score that out of 10?
35:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that I think
35:49
that the biggest issue that we're we've both touched on is that
35:52
it seems like
35:55
SPEAKER_01: it's a replication of someone's existing skill set.
35:57
SPEAKER_01: We don't know much
36:02
SPEAKER_01: about that team... that team that they might have.
36:05
SPEAKER_01: How many people are
36:07
SPEAKER_01: there?
36:07
SPEAKER_01: It is a little bit all over the place... like they call it a
36:12
SPEAKER_01: Senior Manager, Partner Success, but it seems like it's not quite that.
36:17
SPEAKER_01: That doesn't seem to be quite the appropriate title.
36:19
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what
36:22
SPEAKER_01: would be, but it's a mixture of sales.
36:25
SPEAKER_01: I almost wish that they did call it just
36:29
a sales...
36:29
like call it for what it is and just actually really hone in
36:32
and focus
36:35
SPEAKER_01: on it being a sales role.
36:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know.
36:38
SPEAKER_01: Just keep it
36:41
SPEAKER_01: for what it is, because that's what it reads like.
36:42
SPEAKER_01: But it's got operations,
36:44
SPEAKER_01: it's got BD, so it's got all sorts of stuff in there.
36:47
SPEAKER_01: And I would...
36:47
SPEAKER_01: I don't
36:48
SPEAKER_01: know out of 10, what would I rate this?
36:50
SPEAKER_01: Maybe like
36:54
SPEAKER_01: a five-ish.
36:54
SPEAKER_01: I want this person, whoever runs this company to succeed and do
37:00
SPEAKER_01: well.
37:00
SPEAKER_01: And I think that they're trying to do right by this role.
37:01
SPEAKER_01: So, they they
37:04
SPEAKER_01: have like I don't know.
37:04
SPEAKER_01: I care for them.
37:05
SPEAKER_01: I don't know who they are, but I care
37:08
SPEAKER_01: for them.
37:08
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, that would be the rating.
37:09
SPEAKER_01: I guess like a five or so
37:12
SPEAKER_00: because I don't know that that's going to work out for them if they're
37:15
SPEAKER_00: going to do it this way... going to hire this way.
37:17
SPEAKER_00: So I think that they
37:19
could have gone in a different direction and probably would be
37:21
more successful.
37:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I had some similar thoughts.
37:24
SPEAKER_00: So on the the job ad itself, the structure
37:28
SPEAKER_00: of it and whatnot, I'd give it an eight.
37:30
SPEAKER_00: Probably being a little bit
37:32
SPEAKER_00: generous, you're right.
37:33
SPEAKER_00: There was some duplication like the difference between
37:36
SPEAKER_00: the ideal candidate qualifications and the preferred qualifications.
37:43
SPEAKER_00: That didn't really make a lot of sense to me.
37:44
SPEAKER_00: Like maybe they were trying
37:46
to say with preferred qualifications,
37:48
this is the minimum that we will accept.
37:50
SPEAKER_00: If that's the case, they should have said it.
37:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:54
SPEAKER_00: Like you could have been very honest
37:57
in that part of the job ad and said,
37:58
you know,
37:59
nothing against you but don't apply
38:02
unless you can demonstrate A,
38:03
B,
38:03
and C.
38:03
I would have given them more credit for
38:09
SPEAKER_00: that rather than this duplication.
38:11
SPEAKER_00: But other than that, I thought it was really
38:13
SPEAKER_00: well written and structured... like there there were no typos.
38:16
SPEAKER_00: There was no goofy
38:18
SPEAKER_00: stuff.
38:18
SPEAKER_00: It seems to me that whoever wrote this ad sat down and wrote it and
38:25
SPEAKER_00: gave it some thought and some consideration in how they wrote the job
38:28
SPEAKER_00: ad itself.
38:28
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it worked for me.
38:30
SPEAKER_00: Role design, though...
38:36
SPEAKER_00: not as much, not as much.
38:38
SPEAKER_00: The role role design is logical, through the
38:42
framework of,
38:43
you are now going from 1 to 100...
38:44
like you've gone from 0 to 1,
38:50
SPEAKER_00: you've proven that this is a thing and you know you you've kind of found
38:54
SPEAKER_00: traction.
38:54
SPEAKER_00: So your logical conclusion is like, alright, let's hire
38:58
SPEAKER_00: somebody who is senior and we'll fill in underneath them, like a lot of
39:04
founders who are scaling,
39:04
they think that way and there's nothing wrong with that
39:07
that can work,
39:07
but the way that this role is structured is pretty much a
39:10
magnet
39:14
SPEAKER_00: for burnout.
39:14
SPEAKER_00: You're saying that you're going to be traveling around the country
39:19
20% to 30% of your time,
39:20
but you're also in charge of maintaining relationships
39:24
SPEAKER_00: with your partner network.
39:26
SPEAKER_00: And you're also in charge of eventually building,
39:30
mentoring,
39:30
and kind of scaling a team,
39:32
but that team is never really going to
39:35
SPEAKER_00: fully own the work as it's written here.
39:36
SPEAKER_00: You're still going to be hands-on in it.
39:39
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, how much lift is that going to give you?
39:41
SPEAKER_00: Oh, and also, by the
39:43
SPEAKER_00: way, you're setting up the events.
39:44
SPEAKER_00: You're making sure that everything at
39:47
SPEAKER_00: the events are being set up and torn down and everything.
39:49
SPEAKER_00: Oh, and also you're
39:51
SPEAKER_00: managing these marketing partnership campaigns, which are virtual.
39:57
All these things are being squished together in ways that they
39:59
kind of make
40:03
sense in your mind,
40:03
but the reality is that this person's not going to be able
40:08
SPEAKER_00: to really excel at any of those areas.
40:10
SPEAKER_00: They might be able to be like 30% or 40%
40:14
SPEAKER_00: effective, maybe less in all of them, some of the time, not all the time.
40:18
SPEAKER_00: So
40:20
SPEAKER_00: this person... like, big job, probably going to burn out.
40:23
SPEAKER_00: It's not going to be
40:24
SPEAKER_00: sustainable.
40:24
SPEAKER_00: One of two things will happen.
40:25
SPEAKER_00: Either this role will get
40:29
SPEAKER_00: modified within six months to be something else and some of this stuff
40:34
will get shifted on to other people or they'll hire to kind of
40:36
do other stuff
40:37
SPEAKER_01: or this person will just flame out and leave.
40:38
SPEAKER_01: I would give the role design five
40:42
SPEAKER_01: and a half, six out of 10.
40:43
SPEAKER_01: So for me, job ad eight, role design six.
40:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're right.
40:47
SPEAKER_01: And you mentioned something that
40:52
SPEAKER_01: I'm kind of suspicious of.
40:55
SPEAKER_01: I wonder if this person, this one- person show... that we are making a
41:00
SPEAKER_01: lot of assumptions here.
41:01
SPEAKER_01: If they need a break, I wonder if they want to take a
41:05
SPEAKER_01: little bit of a step back.
41:06
SPEAKER_01: I wonder if they want to go on vacations every once
41:08
SPEAKER_01: in a while and they haven't been able to.
41:10
SPEAKER_01: That's what I'm thinking.
41:11
SPEAKER_01: And
41:13
that could be why they are willing to pay so high for this role
41:16
that because
41:20
they themselves are going to take a bit of a step back,
41:22
they can reduce their
41:24
SPEAKER_01: own salary and give some of it to this person.
41:26
SPEAKER_01: Like that's kind of what
41:28
SPEAKER_01: it feels like for me, a little bit as well.
41:30
SPEAKER_01: So again, we've made up this whole
41:34
SPEAKER_00: story about this organization, but I'm curious, would you, you know, if
41:39
this,
41:39
if you had kind of the skill set,
41:40
the experience for this,
41:41
would you apply
41:44
SPEAKER_00: for this role?
41:46
SPEAKER_00: Great question.
41:46
SPEAKER_00: I think that if I
41:51
SPEAKER_01: was eligible to work for this company, because
41:56
SPEAKER_00: it's US only, so obviously I wouldn't be able to.
41:58
SPEAKER_00: The assumption
42:00
SPEAKER_00: you're eligible.
42:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
42:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
42:01
SPEAKER_00: If I was eligible, I would give it
42:04
SPEAKER_00: serious thought.
42:04
SPEAKER_00: I would give it serious thought.
42:06
SPEAKER_00: Sales... not really my
42:10
SPEAKER_00: bag.
42:10
SPEAKER_00: Relationship management.
42:10
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
42:11
SPEAKER_00: Business development.
42:12
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
42:12
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
42:15
SPEAKER_00: Operational stuff.
42:15
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
42:16
SPEAKER_00: But in reading through this job ad, like the things
42:21
that they want to fit together,
42:23
they don't really fit together all that well
42:26
SPEAKER_00: in my mind.
42:26
SPEAKER_00: So, I would be asking kind of some of these same
42:29
SPEAKER_00: questions and being like, am I going to be successful in this job?
42:32
SPEAKER_00: And for folks
42:34
at home who are looking for jobs right now and reading through
42:36
job ads,
42:37
that's
42:38
a pretty good exercise to go through yourself when you're
42:39
reading these job
42:42
ads,
42:42
like you read through the job ad and think about it with what
42:43
you know
42:47
SPEAKER_00: from that job ad and say, will I be successful in this job?
42:49
SPEAKER_00: Why or why not?
42:52
SPEAKER_00: Like, what are the kind of deficiencies?
42:54
SPEAKER_00: What are the questions that come up
42:55
SPEAKER_00: here?
42:55
SPEAKER_00: And that mental exercise can actually generate really intelligent
42:59
SPEAKER_00: questions for you to use in the interview.
43:01
SPEAKER_00: We know that hiring
43:03
SPEAKER_00: managers... when you ask good questions, they're impressed.
43:06
SPEAKER_00: Like you
43:07
SPEAKER_00: stand out far more than candidates who don't ask questions at all or have
43:12
SPEAKER_00: nothing to say.
43:12
SPEAKER_00: So it can be a useful exercise.
43:14
SPEAKER_00: To answer your question
43:15
SPEAKER_00: though, I don't know if I'd apply for this or not.
43:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'd be torn because the mission
43:22
SPEAKER_00: of this organization aligns with my values side.
43:23
SPEAKER_01: I think that I would drive
43:25
myself a little bit crazy trying to do absolutely everything,
43:27
because that's
43:28
SPEAKER_01: my personality.
43:29
SPEAKER_01: It just... it's not going to work in
43:33
SPEAKER_01: a structure like this.
43:33
SPEAKER_01: I think that's such a good point.
43:34
SPEAKER_01: I
43:35
think that there are...
43:35
there's nothing indicating in the job posting that there
43:39
SPEAKER_01: are any guardrails in place to prevent you from doing everything.
43:43
SPEAKER_00: So, you would end up doing everything.
43:44
SPEAKER_00: It's just designed that way.
43:46
SPEAKER_00: I think
43:47
SPEAKER_00: that's why we both rated it so low for job design.
43:52
SPEAKER_00: Well folks, that is another job post
43:55
SPEAKER_00: roasted.
43:55
SPEAKER_00: Really interesting one.
43:57
SPEAKER_01: Join us again next week when we are back
44:05
personally. See you then.