Latest / The Delicious Culture with Jon Francois / Eye Health Is Delicious w/ Sally Murray : Amblyopia, Strabismus & Pediatric Vision

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Eye Health Is Delicious w/ Sally Murray : Amblyopia, Strabismus & Pediatric Vision · The Delicious Culture with Jon Francois

• 0:00
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  .com. Once again, that is urofficestaff .com.
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  So before eight, surgery, glasses, prisms, whatever
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  we're doing, we're trying to align the eyes to
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  prevent the brain A, from ignoring an eye so
• 0:59
  the vision doesn't develop correctly, and ideally,
• 1:03
  we want them to have their eyes straight so their
• 1:06
  brain learns to use the eyes together as a pair,
• 1:11
  and the brain doesn't reconfigure. There are
• 1:14
  certain people that don't use their eyes together,
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  which is fine, but our line of work, we're kind
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  of really excited about people using their eyes
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  together. Hello, delishies. Grab a plate and
• 1:29
  taste the delicious culture. I'm your host, John
• 1:31
  Francois. We are feasting on food, pop culture
• 1:33
  and lifestyle with child and adult vision expert,
• 1:37
  Sally Murray. Is it Murray or Murray? I'm sorry.
• 1:41
  Murray. Yep. Murray. Okay. Okay. All right. Wonderful.
• 1:44
  Sally is one of the members of the American Association
• 1:47
  of Certified Ortho, or wow, I should have checked.
• 1:52
  No, it happens every time. I was literally qualified
• 1:57
  for six years and my mother still couldn't pronounce
• 1:59
  it. So you have done what everyone does. It's
• 2:02
  orthoptics. Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah,
• 2:05
  pronunciation is one of my weaknesses. This is
• 2:09
  a recurring theme in the podcast, so I thank
• 2:11
  you for making me feel good about that. Sally,
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  can I ask if you're in Ireland? No, I'm Irish,
• 2:17
  but I actually live in Portland, Oregon. Did
• 2:20
  I see you drink a cup of coffee? I think Portland
• 2:22
  is known for having good coffee. No, I'm tea.
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  I'm sorry. I even have it in my Irish cup from
• 2:29
  my mother -in -law. It was very sweet. I think
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  this is to show that she supports my heritage.
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  So, and I even, you can even make a coffee, an
• 2:39
  Irish coffee cake in a mug. I've never tried
• 2:42
  it. I've just used it for tea, but there you
• 2:45
  go. Irish coffee cake in a mug. So, so many questions
• 2:49
  about that. And I promise we're going to get
• 2:51
  to the talking points, but now you've piqued
• 2:53
  my curiosity. What's an Irish coffee cake and
• 2:57
  how can you fit it in a mug? So apparently, as
• 2:59
  I said, I've never done it. It kind of scares
• 3:01
  me because microwaving a cake just seems sacrilegious
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  to me. Anyway, so it's a quarter cup of flour,
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  an eighth of a teaspoon of baking powder, a pinch
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  of salt, a tablespoon of butter, two tablespoons
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  of sugar, two tablespoons of applesauce, a few
• 3:17
  drops of vanilla, and then a drop of green food
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  coloring. Where's the coffee? Yeah, I know, right?
• 3:25
  Like you said, sometimes things are called coffee
• 3:27
  flavored, but there's actually no association
• 3:29
  with a coffee. So maybe I misunderstood. Maybe
• 3:31
  you meant that the recipe for Irish coffee cake
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  was on this mug, not that you can physically
• 3:35
  fit an Irish coffee. No, no, no, no. Yeah. You're
• 3:37
  supposed to, if you put that in there and then
• 3:39
  stick it in the microwave. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay.
• 3:43
  Okay. 50 to 80 seconds. Yeah. I, you know what?
• 3:48
  Microwaving cakes in a mug from scratch. That's
• 3:51
  not my idea of a good time either, but, um, you're
• 3:55
  the one advertising it in the mug. So, you know,
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  it's your fault more than mine's. That's okay,
• 4:03
  Sally. That's okay. Um, yeah, that's, that's
• 4:05
  definitely food for thought fittingly enough,
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  but, um, It's not a delicious recommendation.
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  It's not. It's not. But I bet your tea is a delicious
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  recommendation. What kind of tea are you drinking
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  right now? I'm drinking imported PG tips. I go
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  home and I buy, well, I go back home and I buy
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  tea bags and I bring them back with me. Okay.
• 4:33
  There's nothing wrong with that. You made it
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  seem like it was such a guilty thing to do. Why
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  is that so bad? Well, it just seems, it seems
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  a little... you know, ridiculous, but it's tea.
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  I don't think so. I mean, sometimes the best
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  tea comes from home, you know, your surroundings,
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  where you grew up. So can you tell me more about
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  like, what's the flavor? What's the sensation
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  that you get from that tea that you may not get
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  from a tea in Portland, Oregon? Yeah, I think
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  it's more, it's more home. Like in an interesting,
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  like in, I suppose you guys, I feel like the
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  American version is like where you guys get your
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  coffee. Like, are you a Dunkin' Donuts? Are you
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  a Starbucks? We have Dutch brothers over here.
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  So in the UK, it's like which tea, in Ireland
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  as well, like which tea brand you drink, and
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  that makes or breaks it. So it's a particular
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  tea. So PG Tips for me, it's quite a strong,
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  maybe slightly bitter, but for me it's a rounded
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  flavor. But it does taste better with English
• 5:33
  water as well. It's still not quite the same
• 5:36
  here, but it's close enough that I power through.
• 5:40
  Yeah. Dr. Rob Kelly, who is someone who is also
• 5:43
  originally from the UK, but he's now based in
• 5:45
  San Antonio, he was also telling me about the
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  PG brand of tea that goes big in the UK. So that's
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  something worthy of noting there. They have pyramid
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  tea bags. It was a big thing in the 90s growing
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  up. Pyramid teabags. Yeah, so their teabags are
• 6:02
  created so they actually look like a pyramid
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  like they're kind of triangular and the idea
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  is is this the the kind of cone -like shape allows
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  this vortex of tea to circulate and therefore
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  properly permeate the water. That's what PG Tips
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  is famous for. And it does. They live up to their
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  advertising. I don't, I'm also cheap. So I'm
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  like, your normal tea bags, just leave them in
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  the water longer and use it. Like if you lose
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  a spoon, you know, there's way around these things.
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  You mentioned, uh, it's, it's best to have the
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  tea with English water. Is that what you said
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  earlier? So is that water that you can get in
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  Portland or do you literally have to go to England
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  to get? Oh, no, I literally, I go home. I'm actually
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  going home in a few months. I'm really excited.
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  I go home. The first thing I do is make a cup
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  of tea and between like the milk and the, it's
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  just, it's like coming home. Yeah. So what, what
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  about, cause when you say English water, it's
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  literally water that's in England, right? Yeah.
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  From the tap. Yeah. And what's specifically special
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  about that English water that can't be compared
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  to like, I don't know, Portland, Oregon slash
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  American water. People are also funny. I can't
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  believe people are also really funny about water.
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  as well. So like depending on, so where my family's
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  from, it's really, there's a lot of lime scale
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  in the water. Like it ruins everything, but it
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  does also - I'm sorry, lime scale? Yeah, like
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  there's a lot of lime in the water. So you get
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  lime scale, they build up on all your like dishwasher
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  and your kettle and it's called hard water and
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  you got to put salt in. You guys don't have this
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  problem over here? Wait, wait, wait. Okay. So
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  you say lime, L -I -M -E, and I'm thinking of
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  the green fruit thing. No, no, no. It's like
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  it's a mineral deposit. And so, you know, based
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  on the topography of where you are in England,
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  and it's quite there and Ireland, the water comes
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  through like different sort of natural filtration
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  systems. And so in where my family is from, the
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  water is really hard. And that, as I said, it
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  ruins like your showerhead, everything, but it
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  does affect the taste of the water. And so if
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  it's something you're brought up on, I suppose
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  you associate that taste doesn't seem weird to
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  you. But if you're from somewhere up north, everyone
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  complains about the taste of the water because
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  it doesn't taste the same. Interesting, interesting.
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  We're not big into filtered water, I think, as
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  well. Like we get our water from the tap usually.
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  Oh. I would fit in so well with Ireland then
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  because for me that's here in the U .S. So I
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  can go either or. I think filtered water tastes
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  great. I think tap water tastes great. I don't,
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  I'm not like my wife. My wife here is very uptight
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  about like, no, I either need filtered water
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  or I need bottled water. I can't do tap. She
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  could get involved though. She could get involved
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  in the conversation of which is the best washer.
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  You see, you might struggle because you'd be
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  like, I don't care. Like, the water all tastes
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  the same. That would be horrifying to most people.
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  Like, the water debate's big. Okay, so is there
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  maybe a slight difference in taste between tapped
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  and filtered water? Maybe. Filtered water, especially
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  when it's cold. I, yeah, there is a refreshing
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  taste to it. I cannot deny that. Um, but, uh,
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  somehow, you know, there are people when they
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  think of tap water, they think, Oh my God, I'm
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  going to have like bugs in my mouth. And they
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  just have that negative association with it.
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  Yeah, sure. Yeah. No, I'm usually, although I
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  don't know that sometimes, yeah, it's, I, I feel,
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  I, I feel safer. I think it depends what country
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  you're in too. This is true. This is true. Right.
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  Yeah. And also like where I'm staying, like if
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  I'm in a nice hotel, I'm going to be, I'm probably
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  like the tap water is probably fine. And again,
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  going back to being cheap, I'm going to drink,
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  I'm going to risk the tap water versus spending
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  $5 for a bottle of small bottle of water. Right.
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  But if I'm in like a hostel, I'm probably going
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  to go with the bottled. Right. Now a hostel in
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  UK terms is... No, probably okay. Yeah. No, no,
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  no, no. I'm asking what a hostel is because I
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  think of a hostel, I think of like some kind
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  of convent where the nuns stay, but like a hostel
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  is somewhat different. So hostels, yeah, no,
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  you're right. So a hostel in Europe is, it is
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  cheap accommodation, but it's what a lot of,
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  where a lot of, I don't know, God, maybe I'm
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  aging myself. Maybe there's that a day now, but
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  in the good old days, when I was a student, a
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  hostel was somewhere where you could stay for
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  like $10, but you were backpacking. So, you know,
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  if you backpack through like, so there's lots
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  of hostels in Asia, right? And you can stay in
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  a dormitory. So there's like the same theme,
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  but it's not a, it's not for people down on their
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  luck. Like you do actually pay to sleep there,
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  but, and there's usually varying degrees. So
• 10:51
  you can, you know, go for a private room or as
• 10:53
  I said, for like 20 euro, you sleep in a room
• 10:56
  with 10 other people. Yeah, and so but there's
• 10:59
  varying degrees right there's like the bed bugs
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  and therefore not the tapped wool shirt Or there's
• 11:05
  actually some nicer hostiles. It just depends
• 11:07
  on the experience you're looking for interesting
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  So I just have a question about the visuals that
• 11:13
  I'm seeing here for anybody watching on YouTube
• 11:15
  And I promise you we are going to get to the
• 11:18
  the pediatric talking points Because one thing
• 11:20
  you need to know about me Sally is that when
• 11:22
  I get to know someone it's like I you know I
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  cannot help myself so one I have to say that
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  I, I love, I love the vibe right now. Like the,
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  the hairstyle, the, the glasses, everything like
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  that. You're giving me like a very, um, and I
• 11:38
  don't even know if anybody's told you this, but
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  I'm getting a very, um, I don't know. I'm getting
• 11:43
  a very cool 90s vibe. Is that something that
• 11:45
  you've been told by people like, Or no, like
• 11:49
  kind of like a like a 90s sort of rock star,
• 11:53
  sort of acoustic guitar kind of vibe. You know,
• 11:56
  someone that's really, it is a bit weird because
• 11:58
  when I was younger, it hasn't happened in decades,
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  but when I was younger, people used to tell me
• 12:02
  I looked like pink. Ah, yes, I can see like early,
• 12:06
  like pink. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.
• 12:09
  Okay. Yeah, I have been told I look like pink.
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  Yeah, right now I feel like though I'm looking
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  at myself going God you look like Sarah Sally
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  Jesse Raphael sure I just need the red glasses
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  and I'd be there Yeah, I don't know. I'm just
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  getting like sort of an alternative female star
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  of music from the 90s from you It's it's really
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  nice. Can I ask why do you have a picture of
• 12:32
  what looks like a? Turkey behind you. I think
• 12:35
  you have like a it's like it's like Big Bird,
• 12:38
  but brown. Yeah, it's it's my It's my daughter's
• 12:42
  thankful turkey. Thankful turkey, okay. Yeah,
• 12:46
  it's got a little like placards and it's just
• 12:52
  like, I'm a long little friend and I'm respectful
• 12:55
  to my family and I'm thankful for everything
• 12:58
  I have. It got made in kindergarten and it's
• 13:01
  still there. She's only in first grade, so it's
• 13:03
  not too bad. So your daughter made this as part
• 13:05
  of like a Thanksgiving thing at school and you
• 13:08
  put it up on the wall and everything like that?
• 13:10
  Yeah. And it's just never come down. Yeah, that's
• 13:13
  adorable. That's just the artwork. I don't know.
• 13:16
  Yeah. And OK, so you got the turkey. So is your
• 13:18
  daughter still in kindergarten or is she in first
• 13:20
  grade now? Oh, OK, OK. So I guess we'll replace
• 13:23
  that turkey with whatever other feathered. something,
• 13:27
  celebration comes home. The feathered Santa Claus
• 13:30
  for Christmas, if you celebrate that holiday.
• 13:35
  Okay, so that's adorable. I love that your daughter
• 13:37
  did that. And then right next to the turkey,
• 13:40
  it looks like you have some kind of like Zorro
• 13:42
  face on a portrait. It's cute, isn't it? So that
• 13:47
  was done by a local artist here. So I live in
• 13:50
  a suburb of Portland called Lake Oswego and every
• 13:55
  Ooh, now I'm going to get it wrong. I think when
• 13:57
  more, no, Labor Day, because it's always flipping,
• 14:00
  boiling hot. Every Labor Day, the local artists
• 14:03
  do a art fair. And that we bought, gosh, we bought
• 14:09
  about 10 years ago from one of the local, I just
• 14:12
  saw it and I really liked it. I like this site,
• 14:17
  like the slightly like surreal. I don't know,
• 14:21
  it just really spoke to me. So. I love it, yeah.
• 14:23
  And for the listener who may not be watching
• 14:26
  on YouTube, can you describe that portrait? Because
• 14:28
  I'm trying to figure out how to describe it and
• 14:29
  it's like. Yeah, so the concept is, so it was
• 14:33
  a female artist and it was done in 2016. And
• 14:38
  so it's, I think it's kind of a self -portrait.
• 14:42
  And so the idea was black, white, yellow, red,
• 14:45
  some of the representations she felt of a multicultural
• 14:49
  America. It's basically an abstract representation
• 14:58
  of someone who really loved an America that she
• 15:03
  felt was not present in 2016. It's her brain
• 15:07
  exploding going, what's happening? But I still
• 15:10
  have hope that we're going to come around. There's
• 15:15
  her handprint as well. I don't know, it was a
• 15:17
  very personal, like she just told the whole story.
• 15:19
  So yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a face that's got,
• 15:23
  is separated into quadrants with gray, with black,
• 15:26
  white, yellow and red, and then a kind of fun,
• 15:30
  fireworky explosion for the. head, the rest of
• 15:34
  the head. Yeah. So the explosion in the head,
• 15:37
  it looked almost like a winter Russian hat, like
• 15:39
  something that one of those, like, uh, the Russian
• 15:42
  soldiers would wear during the winter time. That's,
• 15:44
  that's what I was almost getting from that, um,
• 15:46
  that, that, that, that effect on the head. Yeah.
• 15:50
  And the shades of the color on the face, am I
• 15:52
  to, um, assume that like, and that along with
• 15:56
  the, with the spelling of the word hope, um,
• 16:00
  does that represent? the person, uh, like what
• 16:03
  they believe to be a, uh, a welcoming, like inclusive
• 16:08
  diversified America that they did not get in
• 16:10
  2016. Okay. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I think it was
• 16:13
  like that. That's the thing. It's like, that's
• 16:14
  where she thought we were going. And then that's
• 16:17
  not really where we ended up. Yeah. Strangers
• 16:25
  are verbally harassing me on the street telling
• 16:29
  me to tell you to rate and review The Delicious
• 16:33
  Culture with Jon François on Apple and Spotify.
• 16:35
  They have bullied me into telling you this because
• 16:38
  these same strangers imply that as many people
• 16:42
  will find the podcast as possible if you rate
• 16:45
  and review The Delicious Culture on Apple and
• 16:47
  Spotify, preferably positively, or else these
• 16:50
  strangers will come over there and beat you.
• 16:57
  You look like someone I know, Sally. Oh, my God.
• 16:59
  I'm like, I get that. I do get that a lot. I
• 17:02
  do get that a lot. Yeah. Oh, you related to this.
• 17:06
  I'm like, I have no idea who you're talking about.
• 17:08
  Yeah. Yeah. It'll come to me in about two years.
• 17:11
  You know, I am half Irish and the Irish are we're
• 17:13
  quite prolific breeders. So, you know, every,
• 17:18
  every month, every month, it's like we found
• 17:20
  you a new third cousin in, you know, Alabama.
• 17:23
  And I'm like, of course you did. Wow. All right,
• 17:27
  so that's something that I didn't think I would
• 17:29
  know from you today. The Irish are good beard
• 17:32
  ears. And also, if you are Irish, I guess I will
• 17:36
  look at an Irish person and think, oh my God,
• 17:37
  I feel like I know you from somewhere, you know?
• 17:40
  Yeah. And what do you think about the flavor
• 17:42
  of water? What do you think? English, tap, filtered,
• 17:48
  American, what is your flavor? Hard, soft, yeah.
• 17:51
  Oh, I love that. All right, now to get to what
• 17:55
  you came here for, thank you for indulging me
• 17:57
  in this little get to know you session here.
• 18:00
  So yeah, I mean, I'll be vulnerable. I thought
• 18:03
  we were talking about one thing and now we're
• 18:04
  talking about another thing. So I'm going to
• 18:07
  lend the floor to you and tell me like what you
• 18:11
  specialize in, what are we talking about here
• 18:14
  today because I will go from there. Yeah, well,
• 18:17
  let's start with the word orthoptics. So orthoptics
• 18:24
  is straight optics eyes. So we deal with eye
• 18:28
  misalignment for the most part. And since that
• 18:32
  primarily affects children, we usually are found
• 18:36
  alongside pediatric ophthalmologists. We're sort
• 18:39
  of a PA -ish for pediatric ophthalmologists.
• 18:43
  The ironic thing is if you have straight eyes,
• 18:46
  it's highly unlikely that you'll ever see us.
• 18:49
  So we specialize in eye misalignment. Also a
• 18:56
  big thing that we do, which is really important
• 19:00
  in children, is we diagnose and treat something
• 19:03
  called amblyopia. So amblyopia is when the vision
• 19:08
  in one eye does not develop fully to 2020. So
• 19:13
  it's an otherwise completely healthy eye, but
• 19:15
  vision is a learned sense, right? We act like
• 19:19
  the same way we learn to walk, learn to talk.
• 19:21
  We actually learn to see. We're born with the
• 19:24
  blueprints for what vision should be, but it's
• 19:27
  the experience that our eyes and brain get that
• 19:30
  actually cement those pathways. So if one eye
• 19:34
  sees gray and the other eye needs some glasses
• 19:37
  or the other eye is not actually looking where
• 19:40
  it's supposed to do, the brain in child very
• 19:44
  quickly goes, well, there's no point. allocating
• 19:47
  resources to this eye that doesn't do anything.
• 19:50
  So it stops letting that eye learn. And as the
• 19:53
  child grows, you end up with one very good eye
• 19:56
  and one very poor seeing eye. If that is not
• 19:59
  found and treated before the age of eight, unfortunately,
• 20:02
  that vision loss, which can be reversed in childhood
• 20:06
  is actually permanent. And you end up with an
• 20:08
  adult with one good eye, and in some cases, one
• 20:11
  visually impaired eye. Like if they were to lose
• 20:14
  their good eye, they would not be able to drive.
• 20:16
  Eye misalignment. Um, cause you know, when you,
• 20:19
  when you said that term, it's the first time
• 20:21
  I've heard of it. And I was thinking of also
• 20:23
  another term and I don't even know if this is
• 20:24
  offensive or not. I apologize, but like, you
• 20:27
  know, I've heard cross -eyed I've heard about,
• 20:31
  is that essentially what it is? Yeah. Absolutely.
• 20:34
  So it's strabismus is the technical term. Strabismus
• 20:37
  means eye misalignment, and that can be in, out,
• 20:41
  up, down. Actually, you can even have a rotation
• 20:44
  in your eye, and that is hard to find, but severely
• 20:47
  impacts reading. But that's also kind of one
• 20:52
  of the things about pediatric ophthalmology is
• 20:57
  people don't have the terminology. So we'll often
• 21:00
  get a phone call going, my kid has a lazy eye.
• 21:03
  And, you know, what does that mean? And it means
• 21:05
  so many things to different people. It can mean
• 21:07
  an eye turning. It can mean a lid drooping. It
• 21:11
  can mean one eye, you know, they're saying that
• 21:16
  one eye doesn't see as well. Sometimes the drift
• 21:19
  only happens intermittently, right? So like sometimes
• 21:23
  the kid looks great and then other times they're
• 21:24
  like, did we see that? So a lot of times, you
• 21:29
  know, one of the actually, in my opinion, most
• 21:31
  fun parts of my job is sitting down and educating
• 21:34
  the parents as to what they're seeing. Because
• 21:36
  a lot of times they walk in and go, we don't
• 21:39
  really know, we need, we need assistance. Especially
• 21:43
  if they don't wear glasses. Can I ask what usually
• 21:45
  causes eye misalignment? Eye misalignment? Sure.
• 21:49
  There's a host of things. It can happen in adults
• 21:52
  as well. Um, but in children, it's usually one
• 21:56
  thing, it can be glasses, it can be related to
• 21:58
  glasses. So sometimes it's an indication the
• 22:01
  child needs glasses and you, um, bring them to,
• 22:04
  um, a pediatric ophthalmologist, a children,
• 22:07
  young children, especially, they always need
• 22:09
  a dilated eye exam to get the correct glasses.
• 22:12
  Cause children are so, they don't know that their
• 22:15
  eyes aren't right, right? Their brain's just
• 22:18
  going, we need to function as a, as a high capacity
• 22:20
  as possible. So they don't know they're struggling.
• 22:24
  So you need to dilate them to stop them focusing
• 22:27
  to get their true glasses power. And that can
• 22:31
  sometimes stop the crossing because they're crossing
• 22:33
  because they're working so hard to try and see.
• 22:37
  Other times, it's sort of just a bit of bad luck.
• 22:40
  Why is someone's middle finger longer than their
• 22:43
  index finger? It's sort of the way they were.
• 22:45
  it's just them, especially if there can be a
• 22:48
  small genetic component. So if it's present in
• 22:50
  the family, we definitely like to keep an eye
• 22:53
  on the kiddos. It's the chicken and the egg situation
• 22:55
  too. Another very interesting thing is people
• 22:58
  born or who have eye misalignment early in childhood,
• 23:02
  actually if you scan them, if you put them in
• 23:04
  an MRI, the way that their visual brain has been
• 23:08
  proportioned is different to those who have always
• 23:11
  had straight eyes. So some people argue, well,
• 23:14
  those people just got a dodgy blueprint. Like
• 23:18
  their brain obviously didn't get the right instructions.
• 23:21
  And because of that, it was crossing. And other
• 23:24
  people argue the crossing caused the brain to
• 23:27
  adapt and change the blueprints. And because,
• 23:29
  of course, you never scan a normal child to go
• 23:32
  like, what does your brain look like? You don't
• 23:35
  know. You're presented with both facts at the
• 23:38
  same time. So we know that a child eye misalignment
• 23:42
  before the age of eight, if they get that taken
• 23:43
  care of, that is a good thing. And I apologize
• 23:47
  if this just ends up with you repeating information,
• 23:50
  because I'm just learning about this. No, again,
• 23:52
  I love this. I repeat this information 30 times
• 23:55
  a day, and I will continue to repeat. I remember
• 24:01
  saying that to one person. I was like, that's
• 24:03
  why I went to school. Right. I went to school.
• 24:06
  So I have all the answers and you just ask me
• 24:09
  for the right ones. And then when you forget
• 24:11
  an answer, you're supposed to call me back. Like
• 24:12
  that's, that's what I'm here for. So no, no,
• 24:15
  I love, I love all questions. So, okay. And I
• 24:18
  guess what's going on in my mind is like, all
• 24:20
  right, what can we do to, you know, better manage
• 24:24
  to eye misalignment if we can catch it before
• 24:26
  the age of eight. We had mentioned glasses and
• 24:29
  then is there something else or is it just pretty
• 24:32
  much going to a doctor and getting that figured
• 24:34
  out? Yeah, so there's, so pediatricians, there's,
• 24:37
  there's, you know, that was a huge, there's been
• 24:40
  a huge improvement in the treatment of, um, I
• 24:42
  think amblyopia honestly is the kind of the bigger
• 24:45
  one. If there is an IMS alignment because you
• 24:48
  can't like the kid will have one good eye. So
• 24:51
  we'll function completely normally. In fact,
• 24:53
  my brother has untreated amblyopia. And the only
• 24:56
  reason we discovered it was I was getting headaches
• 25:00
  and my mom took me to an eye doctor and they
• 25:02
  were like, well, we have an extra appointment.
• 25:04
  We can test your son. And she was like, he's
• 25:08
  fine. He doesn't need to be. They're like, well,
• 25:09
  you never know. And she was like, fine. Okay.
• 25:12
  Test him too. So of course I go in, I'm completely
• 25:15
  fine. There's absolutely nothing wrong with me.
• 25:18
  And we test my brother and we cover his right
• 25:20
  eye and he does great in 2015, like sniper vision.
• 25:23
  And we cover his other eye and he can't even
• 25:27
  see the top letter. He can't see anything. And
• 25:31
  he's now nine. So that vision is permanently
• 25:35
  gone in that eye. So it's kind of ironic that
• 25:38
  this is sort of what I ended up with. But because
• 25:41
  so many people ended up in that situation. And
• 25:44
  that was, he had a need for glasses. One eye
• 25:46
  didn't need glasses, the other eye did. The brain
• 25:48
  will only dial in one focus. So it focuses the
• 25:52
  easier eye, which means the other eye is constantly
• 25:54
  blurry because it's never dialed in to the right,
• 25:58
  right? The brain can't separate. The pediatricians,
• 26:03
  so a lot of people in our field have worked on
• 26:05
  vision screening programs. So now there's these
• 26:08
  devices that a lot of pediatricians use that
• 26:11
  looks like a kind of big Polaroid camera and
• 26:13
  there's like a smiley face. And those are pretty
• 26:16
  sensitive at finding risk factors for eye misalignment
• 26:21
  and unequal vision in children. So if your pediatrician's
• 26:25
  doing a vision screening and they're passing,
• 26:29
  you're probably pretty good, actually. But, you
• 26:32
  know, there's always, but there's, I see patients
• 26:35
  monthly. The parents are like, I was told they
• 26:37
  were fine. Everything was fine. And I knew there
• 26:40
  wasn't, there was something up and I just put
• 26:43
  my foot down. And so if you really are concerned,
• 26:47
  then you contact your pediatrician and you ask
• 26:49
  for a reference to a pediatric ophthalmologist
• 26:52
  and we'll hopefully see an orthoptist as well.
• 26:55
  And we usually find it, you know. we're pretty
• 27:00
  good at it. So if there's a problem, we uncover
• 27:02
  it. But I would also urge parents, if it's that
• 27:05
  hard to find, it's probably not doing a huge
• 27:08
  amount of damage. Like I don't want parents to
• 27:10
  go, oh my gosh, I'm ignoring something and my
• 27:13
  child is slowly going blind while I have no awareness.
• 27:17
  If they're passing their screening and you don't
• 27:19
  see anything that concerns you, you're not missing
• 27:23
  anything that you need to worry about. No. What
• 27:26
  is the whole reasoning behind, like, if you're
• 27:29
  below the age of eight and can get this thing
• 27:32
  fixed, then it won't affect you versus if you
• 27:35
  wait until after the age of eight? Like, what's
• 27:37
  the reasoning behind that difference? It's something
• 27:40
  called neural plasticity. So, actually, because
• 27:44
  everyone, I feel like this whole section kind
• 27:47
  of has blown up, right? That you have to keep
• 27:49
  your brain... like fluid and plastic and learning
• 27:53
  new things and adults can learn new things. But
• 27:56
  this was actually all discovered in the 1960s
• 28:00
  by two scientists that worked on monkeys and
• 28:03
  cats. And they found out that there was brain
• 28:08
  changes when they were young, but when they were
• 28:12
  adults, they weren't. And it's just how our brains,
• 28:16
  it's why children, it's why you're supposed to
• 28:19
  give exposed children to Mozart at a very young
• 28:21
  age. It's because the child's brain hasn't yet
• 28:25
  cemented those pathways, right? It's all part
• 28:28
  of the learning process. So while those neurons
• 28:32
  are still firing, you can create new pathways.
• 28:35
  But once you're an adult, kind of unfortunate,
• 28:38
  a little bit like everything, it's harder for
• 28:39
  us to learn. And the visual pathway is not amenable
• 28:44
  to being taught very well after the age of eight.
• 28:47
  So before the age of eight, you catch that there's
• 28:51
  eye misalignment and you can surgically fix it
• 28:54
  to a point where they can have normal vision.
• 28:57
  You can always surgically fix eye misalignment,
• 29:01
  even as an adult. But as an adult, it's a bit
• 29:06
  different because sometimes the adults actually
• 29:09
  had a normal child experience, so their brains
• 29:12
  haven't been affected. And then when they get
• 29:14
  misalignment, they get double vision. because
• 29:16
  their brain, their systems like this isn't working.
• 29:19
  A child doesn't get double vision because their
• 29:22
  brain is still able to adapt and switch that
• 29:26
  eye off. So before eight, surgery, glasses, prisms,
• 29:32
  whatever we're doing, we're trying to align the
• 29:34
  eyes to prevent the brain, A, from ignoring an
• 29:39
  eye so the vision doesn't develop correctly.
• 29:41
  And ideally, we want them to have their eyes
• 29:45
  straight. So their brain learns to use the eyes
• 29:50
  together as a pair. And the brain doesn't reconfigure.
• 29:54
  So it's like what we call camera one or camera
• 29:56
  two. There are certain people that don't use
• 29:58
  their eyes together, which is fine. But our line
• 30:01
  of work, we're kind of really excited about people
• 30:03
  using their eyes together. And when we say double
• 30:06
  vision, we mean one eye seeing one way and one
• 30:08
  eye seeing the other way. Right. Okay. And you
• 30:11
  see two of things. Right? Because as an adult,
• 30:15
  your brain has learned, like I'm seeing, I'm
• 30:17
  technically seeing two of you, right? Because
• 30:19
  I have two eyes. But what happens is the brain
• 30:22
  puts those images on top of one another, right?
• 30:25
  And because there's a slight displacement. Right?
• 30:28
  Like, remember, I always say, like, remember
• 30:30
  drawing those squares? Was I the only kid in
• 30:32
  maths class that would draw a square and then
• 30:34
  slightly draw a display square and then you join
• 30:37
  them all up to make a cube? Maybe. I could be
• 30:41
  wrong. Maybe that's why I really like this job.
• 30:43
  I've just discovered it. Anyway, the brain, you
• 30:46
  know, it puts those two images on and there's
• 30:49
  a depth and that's what gives us depth perception.
• 30:52
  Again, as well, you can't teach an adult brain.
• 30:56
  but the adult brain can't unlearn. So if an eye
• 30:59
  starts suddenly crossing, and unfortunately,
• 31:01
  that can be because of something a little bit
• 31:03
  more sinister, like some kind of brain tumor
• 31:06
  or trauma or lots of things in adults can cause
• 31:10
  eye misalignment. But the brain can't deprogram.
• 31:15
  So when this eye is pointing over here and for
• 31:17
  me looking at a light bulb and this eye is pointing
• 31:20
  straight and looking at you, my brain puts the
• 31:24
  light bulb on top of the head. because those
• 31:26
  two things are supposed to match. And now I've
• 31:29
  got another one of you over here. And so I'm
• 31:32
  seeing double of everything, because this eye,
• 31:35
  even though it's turned, thinks it's straight.
• 31:38
  Just hearing that gives me a headache. So I can
• 31:41
  only imagine how it would be if someone actually
• 31:43
  saw that way. It's devastating. It's really devastating.
• 31:46
  And people are like, oh, just close an eye, which
• 31:49
  it gets rid of the double vision. But then you
• 31:52
  lose... half of your visual field. Do you want
• 31:56
  to drive with an eye shut? You lose half of your
• 31:58
  visual field, and if you've always had depth
• 32:01
  perception, it's really disconcerting. This happens
• 32:04
  more frequently in older adults, the older you
• 32:08
  are. the more likely this is to happen. And so
• 32:11
  then now, you know, you're 70 and everyone's
• 32:14
  like, oh, you're getting on a bit. And now you
• 32:16
  don't have any depth perception. So you're tripping.
• 32:19
  And it's really, it's really one of my favorite
• 32:22
  parts of my job because I get to give those people
• 32:26
  back their life by making their eyes straight
• 32:28
  again. And now they're like, oh, I can step off
• 32:31
  a curb. I'm not worried about breaking a hip.
• 32:35
  Okay, so you're running a trade business, you
• 32:38
  know that the phone always rings at the worst
• 32:40
  possible time. Why? The solution. You are office
• 32:44
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• 32:48
  that answers for you day and night. It will talk
• 32:51
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• 32:54
  It'll check your calendar and even books estimates
• 32:57
  near jobs you already have that day. The details
• 33:01
  will... all be texted to you. You don't have
• 33:04
  to worry about it. Your office staff takes care
• 33:06
  of the texts, the emails. It's only 99 bucks
• 33:09
  a month. Even better, if you try it out, your
• 33:11
  first month is only $10. Go to urofficestaff
• 33:16
  .com. Once again, that is urofficestaff .com.
• 33:34
  pretty sparse on the ground. So you usually have
• 33:38
  to get a referral. There are also optometrists
• 33:41
  that see children, but one thing I would stress
• 33:45
  is really try and make sure there is additional
• 33:48
  training. So pediatric ophthalmologists have
• 33:51
  had an additional year. They go to medical school,
• 33:54
  they do three years of ophthalmology, and then
• 33:56
  they do an additional year just to pediatrics.
• 33:59
  Orthoptists do 24 -month full -time clinical
• 34:07
  placement before we're qualified. So optometrists
• 34:10
  also have a fellowship training for pediatric
• 34:14
  optometry, and I would... stress if you can to
• 34:19
  try and make sure that the optometrist you see
• 34:21
  has that additional training. Because as we've
• 34:25
  already tried to touch on it, the adult thing
• 34:28
  and the kid thing are actually two very different
• 34:32
  beasts. Because you have to factor in brain development,
• 34:37
  and that's what we're very good at. Whereas if
• 34:40
  you're mostly seeing an adult, people gonna get
• 34:45
  uncomfortable with kids because you lose that
• 34:48
  what's vital, what's important, and what their
• 34:51
  responses are is different to adults. All right.
• 34:56
  Sally, this was wonderful information. Thank
• 34:59
  you for imparting that on this podcast. I usually
• 35:02
  have three delicious questions that I ask all
• 35:03
  my guests. Are you up for answering them? Sure.
• 35:06
  All right, wonderful. So first, what is the delicious
• 35:09
  meal you've had lately? I think... It's going
• 35:12
  to have to be the Kosoi from my local Thai restaurant.
• 35:17
  I worked in Singapore for two and a half years.
• 35:21
  It was my first job. And I really loved the laksa,
• 35:24
  which is sort of the Malaysian version of Kosoi.
• 35:27
  And I've yet to find laksa, but Kosoi, it hits
• 35:31
  the spot pretty. pretty well, so yeah. Retreat.
• 35:34
  I should be more familiar with the Thai menu.
• 35:37
  Can you break down what koi soi is? Yeah, it's
• 35:41
  sort of a curry noodle soup. It's kind of spicy.
• 35:46
  Yeah. And yeah, so it's a, but yeah, the broth
• 35:50
  is a curry and it's noodles and I like to have
• 35:53
  tofu in mine. And then there's usually some pickles
• 35:56
  on top. Yeah. Like egg noodles. They're so cool.
• 36:01
  The Thai restaurant I go to, they give you half
• 36:04
  cooked egg noodle and half crispy egg noodle.
• 36:09
  I get the different textures and then you've
• 36:11
  got the tofu and then the crispy noodles soak
• 36:14
  up. Yeah, it's really delicious. All right. I'm
• 36:19
  getting the vibe of like, if it's a cold day
• 36:21
  and I want to warm up, but I also want to wake
• 36:23
  up from the spice of it all, it seems like that
• 36:25
  Kosoi is my favorite. Yeah, and it definitely
• 36:29
  is a good, it's not terribly spicy, but it's
• 36:32
  enough for a sinus cleanse as well. Oh, thank
• 36:36
  God. I'm tired of taking the Sudafed. Let me
• 36:38
  get that. Yeah, exactly. Just the Kosoi. Um,
• 36:42
  I'm so basic. I mean, I usually get drunken noodles
• 36:44
  or pad thai. I need to like expand my thai palate,
• 36:46
  so to speak. Yeah, yeah. But it's not available.
• 36:49
  It's not available in all places. I'm just, I'm
• 36:52
  not a pad thai. Yeah, pad thai for me is. Now
• 36:55
  explain why, explain why you just judged me there.
• 36:58
  No, I think, do you know what? I just think I've
• 37:00
  had so much bad pad thai. The worst pad thai
• 37:03
  I ever had was in Thailand, actually. Now why?
• 37:06
  Am I in Thailand of all places? I've never forgiven
• 37:09
  Pad Thai for it. It was in Phuket, which is my
• 37:12
  own fault. So for people who don't know, Phuket
• 37:15
  is like the party central, one of the party centrals
• 37:20
  of Thailand. It's an island. And we went to get
• 37:25
  lunch on like the kind of tourist strip. And
• 37:29
  I got given Pad Thai, and I'm not kidding you,
• 37:32
  it was made with like off -brand tomato ketchup.
• 37:34
  Ew. I know. It was like sweet and a kind of red
• 37:37
  yuck. Anyway, so I think that's all right. It
• 37:40
  was my own personal trauma. I've never gotten
• 37:42
  over it. And that was like 20 years ago. Is Pad
• 37:44
  Thai usually made with ketchup? I don't forget
• 37:46
  that. No! Yeah. No! I was gonna say, I was like,
• 37:49
  that doesn't sound right. In Thailand, I was
• 37:52
  like, are you, I'm like, is this because I'm
• 37:54
  traveling with Americans? What is going on? This
• 37:56
  is sacrilege. Yeah, there is something about
• 37:59
  like when tourists come to a country, the people
• 38:03
  that are from that country may like say, let's
• 38:06
  kind of dumb down the recipes. It's like some
• 38:07
  of the worst past I've ever had has been in Rome.
• 38:12
  Okay. So, what about the other Pad Thai experiences
• 38:16
  that you've had? What are those? Are they putting
• 38:19
  cheese in it? How can we go lower than off -brand
• 38:23
  tomato ketchup? No, that was the worst, by far.
• 38:26
  All right. But I think every time I hear or think
• 38:31
  about Pad Thai, I'm just teleported right back
• 38:35
  to that dodgy restaurant in Phuket with the tomato
• 38:38
  sauce, and I just can't do it. It certainly doesn't
• 38:41
  describe the pad thai that I've had here in Vermont.
• 38:43
  No, no, no, no, yeah. Where you would not imagine
• 38:46
  like, oh yeah, this is the place of quality thai
• 38:48
  food. But like, no, I mean, you know, I hope
• 38:52
  that one day you'll have that negative association
• 38:55
  off your brain and that you'll know what good
• 38:57
  pad thai tastes like. I can enjoy pad thai once
• 39:00
  again. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, what about drunken
• 39:03
  noodles? Do you have the same kind of like disassociation
• 39:06
  from that? No, that one's more. I like the pad
• 39:09
  sea as well, which I think is a lot like drunken
• 39:12
  noodles. Oh, okay. It's the flatter noodles with
• 39:15
  the broccoli and the beef. I see. I mean, there
• 39:18
  is a kick. There's usually a nice spicy kick
• 39:20
  to drunken noodles that you may like. Well, you
• 39:23
  see, the thing is for me, I've got two kids at
• 39:25
  home. So I think maybe that's also my problem
• 39:28
  is a lot of my noodle choices at Thai at the
• 39:31
  moment are like zero spice, which makes it kind
• 39:34
  of sweet because otherwise my kids won't eat
• 39:36
  them. Your kids are not a big fan of spicy. Yeah.
• 39:38
  It's not for everybody. It's not for everybody.
• 39:41
  And they're young, but like, I would rather they,
• 39:43
  as a mother, I'm like, I'd rather get out of
• 39:46
  cooking you dinner than fully enjoying my Thai
• 39:49
  meal. That's the sacrifice I'm willing to make
• 39:51
  as a mother. I love that. What is a delicious
• 39:54
  piece of pop culture that you're obsessed with?
• 39:57
  So anything that you're watching or listening
• 39:58
  to that you love and want to share? Robert Galbraith.
• 40:01
  I have got hooked. Cause I had the, yeah, Robert
• 40:04
  Galbraith. What's that? So Robert Galbraith is
• 40:08
  the Cormoran strike murder mystery novel series.
• 40:10
  Tell me more. So it's up to book nine. So it's
• 40:17
  Robert Galbraith, which is a pseudonym for J
• 40:20
  .K. Rowling, actually. But she's written these
• 40:24
  and they are not children friendly, by the way.
• 40:28
  Do not listen to these with a child in the car
• 40:30
  because they're pretty. So J .K. Rowling under
• 40:32
  another identity is writing these books. Yeah.
• 40:35
  Oh. All right. She's calling herself Robert Galbraith.
• 40:38
  I don't know why. But maybe because it's very
• 40:42
  different. There are murder mysteries and they're
• 40:46
  a little impossible. There's always a bit of
• 40:49
  a weird twist to them as such. But just the writing
• 40:55
  is fantastic and the character development. I
• 40:59
  didn't realize that I hadn't listened to the
• 41:02
  last two. and I've recently got some time off
• 41:04
  work. So I have literally got through book eight
• 41:08
  in three days. It's 30 hours long. And I'm like
• 41:12
  four hours into, I'm yeah, slightly obsessed.
• 41:15
  Now has JK herself confirmed that she's using
• 41:19
  this pseudonym or did you find out? Yeah. So
• 41:21
  what is the point in using it if we, if we know
• 41:23
  it's going to be JK Rowling anyway? You know,
• 41:26
  I love Harry Potter and I, and I love the, this
• 41:29
  series, but For the actual author, I feel like
• 41:32
  there's several things that J .K. Rowling has
• 41:35
  done that I'm like, why? I'm just going to put
• 41:38
  it in that list and go, you puzzle me, but these
• 41:42
  books are fabulous. If you listen to it as an
• 41:46
  audio book, the speaker, the narrator, he's just
• 41:52
  got this for you. The voice that really takes
• 41:55
  you into the murder. Yeah, and he's good at the,
• 41:58
  he's good at the, you know, he's good at the,
• 42:00
  um, um, character voices as well. Right? Like
• 42:05
  there's, I listened to another audio book before
• 42:08
  I realized that I had these two to listen to
• 42:10
  and have now stopped living my life. But I would
• 42:12
  listen to another one and all the... all the
• 42:15
  male voices, it was a female narrator and all
• 42:18
  the male voices had the same voice. So it was
• 42:21
  important. I was like, who? I was like, why is
• 42:23
  this person here? And then I was like, oh, it's
• 42:25
  a different guy. So yeah, no, he doesn't, he
• 42:29
  doesn't make the job. Yeah. When a narrator knows
• 42:31
  how to get those voices down, that's a, that's
• 42:34
  a big key. Like I don't want to judge because
• 42:36
  I couldn't do it, but I don't do it. So yeah.
• 42:40
  Yeah, bad voices, that'll take you out. I'm thinking
• 42:42
  of, I don't know if you're familiar with the
• 42:45
  former late night talk show host, Arsenio Hall.
• 42:48
  He had like a big show back in the late 80s,
• 42:50
  early 90s. And he would put on his idea of female
• 42:57
  voice whenever he wanted to like, you know, be
• 42:59
  in the voice of like a producer that he worked
• 43:01
  with and to hear him go from... Just think of
• 43:06
  how a male exaggeratingly puts on a female voice
• 43:11
  and that's what he did and it just completely
• 43:12
  took me out of it because I'm sure that's not
• 43:15
  how the female says. I've had the same problem
• 43:19
  when men... Like male narrators do a female voice.
• 43:22
  And I'm like, it's just, it sounds like they
• 43:25
  make like, I'm like, stop. You don't need to
• 43:27
  make it sound like a drag queen. Like you don't
• 43:29
  need that. Like just work on it a little bit.
• 43:33
  Like, yeah. Or maybe even just like have your
• 43:36
  voice. I mean, you could like, you know, up the
• 43:38
  pitch a little bit, but keep it as close to your
• 43:41
  natural voice as possible and it'll still work.
• 43:43
  You know what I mean? Like, just change it slightly,
• 43:45
  but yeah, no, it got really. I usually grin and
• 43:49
  bear it, but there was one or two where I was
• 43:51
  like, I absolutely, I do not care about the ending
• 43:55
  of this story enough to listen to it. Yeah, yeah.
• 43:57
  I'll give an example. I have baby carrots with
• 44:00
  me. If I went like, oh, I'm Marsha and I have
• 44:02
  the baby carrots, that's just stupid. And I guess
• 44:05
  on the flip side, when I've heard some female
• 44:07
  narrators do like, oh, I'm Marsha and I have
• 44:09
  the baby carrots, it's just like. Yeah, it doesn't
• 44:12
  work. We don't need to do that, but yet it is
• 44:15
  done. Alright, so you're like me and you're like
• 44:21
  I need to have a podcast with people I can talk
• 44:23
  to so I don't feel so lonely and weird But you
• 44:27
  don't know where to find guest after guest after
• 44:30
  guest you're like me Maybe you're releasing a
• 44:33
  podcast episode once a week twice a week It is
• 44:37
  a consistent beast that needs to be fed and that's
• 44:40
  where pod match comes in pod match gives you
• 44:44
  a wide pool of guests to choose from based on
• 44:47
  your specific type of podcasts, based on the
• 44:49
  specific type of guests you're looking for. They
• 44:51
  give you three matches every single day to choose
• 44:54
  from. And guess what? You publicly release those
• 44:57
  interviews. You get paid from pod match as long
• 45:01
  as of course you prove it. Don't, don't be, you
• 45:03
  know, uh, talking to yourself and claiming that
• 45:07
  you talk to Bob Johnson. from The Milk Company
• 45:11
  when it's just you, Scammer. Podmatch. Get paid
• 45:17
  to release interviews from guests found through
• 45:20
  their platform. Join Podmatch using the link
• 45:23
  in my show notes. Lastly, what is the delicious
• 45:28
  thing that's happened in your life lately, Sally?
• 45:31
  I don't, well, I feel like it's come, I'm really
• 45:34
  excited. I booked yesterday, I booked my tickets
• 45:37
  to go home for a week. To Ireland? To England,
• 45:40
  actually. So I'm half Irish, half English. So
• 45:43
  I'm split down the middle. So can you tell me
• 45:48
  what part of each have you spent time in, in
• 45:52
  terms of it being your poem? So I was born in
• 45:55
  Hong Kong. So that was the first seven years
• 45:57
  of my life. China? Yeah, but it was under British
• 46:00
  rule. So I was born in 1985. And so Hong Kong
• 46:04
  was still a British colony up until 91. No, 95.
• 46:09
  I did not know this. I'm so sorry. This was a
• 46:12
  thing. Well, why would you? So we left in 91.
• 46:17
  So 85 to 91, I was in Hong Kong. Then 91 to 2004,
• 46:24
  I lived in Walsherford, which is in the southeast
• 46:27
  corner, sunny southeast. Hilarious. Wait, tell
• 46:33
  me why. No, no, no, no. I'm not going to stop
• 46:35
  you there. What's so hilarious about that? Oh,
• 46:37
  it just rains all the time. I got married. I
• 46:41
  got married in Ireland on the 12th of July. Yep.
• 46:45
  And it rained. Yep. Yep. I had an Irish guest
• 46:49
  not too long ago on this podcast, uh, you know,
• 46:51
  tell me about the frequent rain, but I will say
• 46:53
  she did say that like you guys have like the
• 46:56
  longest daylight in the summer. It goes until
• 46:58
  like 11 PM. Um, but also in the winter, your
• 47:02
  days are like what? 9 AM to 4 PM. So it's kind
• 47:04
  of like a nice trade off there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
• 47:08
  Anyway, so I'm sorry. So England, you are going
• 47:12
  home there. You just book your tickets. When
• 47:15
  are you going? Can you tell me your full itinerary?
• 47:17
  What do you plan to do there? I am going, I'm
• 47:20
  flying into London Heathrow and then I'm going
• 47:22
  to get myself a little, into a little, very little
• 47:24
  car. And then I drive about three and a half
• 47:28
  hours west to Glastonbury, which is where my
• 47:31
  family's from. So my family's from Somerset,
• 47:34
  which is farming country. But Glastonbury is
• 47:39
  kind of cute. Glastonbury is like the epicenter
• 47:41
  of all the mythical, spiritual. There's a lot
• 47:45
  of wizards and witches and stuff like that. Glastonbury
• 47:50
  is weird, which is hilarious because I live in
• 47:52
  Portland, Oregon, which also prides itself on
• 47:54
  being weird. So both my home bases are like,
• 47:58
  we're really weird and we're proud of it. There
• 48:00
  you go. There you go. So you're just going to
• 48:03
  go there and bask in the weirdness? I'm just
• 48:05
  going to bask in the weirdness and I've got to
• 48:07
  sort out a few things and the joys of being a
• 48:12
  permanent resident here and all that. So there's
• 48:15
  a part of it that's kind of a bit boring and
• 48:18
  add many, but there's also a cup of tea and good
• 48:23
  chocolate. Oh, the chocolate. I didn't know this.
• 48:26
  Chocolate is really good in England. Tell me
• 48:29
  about it. It's funny. When I first moved here,
• 48:32
  um, when I first moved here, I lost 20 pounds
• 48:35
  and, um, people were like, how, where you've
• 48:39
  lost, you've lost a lot of weight. Like, how
• 48:40
  did you lose the weight? And I was like, I moved
• 48:42
  to America and they're like, huh? That's not
• 48:44
  usually how it goes. And I was like, but I have
• 48:48
  a sweet tooth, right? So the savory stuff doesn't
• 48:51
  get me. It's the sweet stuff. No offense, but
• 48:55
  Hershey's chocolate. Oh, I'm sure. Yeah, yeah,
• 48:57
  yeah. So what is, you know, tell me more about
• 49:00
  English chocolate, because the only thing I've
• 49:03
  heard about English and anything having to do
• 49:05
  with eating is the terrible stereotype that English
• 49:09
  food doesn't really have much seasoning. You
• 49:11
  know, and can I just spend a moment arguing about
• 49:14
  that for a second? Please do. Oh my God. So when
• 49:18
  I was in Singapore, in Singapore, there's actually,
• 49:21
  you can rent apartments that don't have a kitchen.
• 49:23
  Right? That's quite common. And the reason is
• 49:26
  it is so cheap to eat out. You just eat out.
• 49:30
  You eat out your three meals a day. Right? For
• 49:32
  like five bucks a meal. And it's good. It's soups.
• 49:36
  It's right. Like it's homemade food. It's flipping
• 49:38
  amazing. And Singapore is obsessed with food.
• 49:41
  They're all foodies. So nothing survives in Singapore
• 49:44
  if it's not good. Right? So you don't have to
• 49:48
  Yelp review anything. If it's open, it's going
• 49:51
  to be good. and I moved to America with that
• 49:54
  mentality. Oh, no. It depends on where you are.
• 49:59
  And my first, and also England though, England
• 50:01
  has got really, England's pub food is amazing.
• 50:06
  So you can go to a pub, you can get a lamb shank,
• 50:09
  you can get a steak, there'll be a fish pie and
• 50:13
  it will be like homemade, good, like soul fulfilling
• 50:18
  food. And then I came here and I went, to like,
• 50:21
  you know, a chain pub, which I didn't, isn't
• 50:24
  even a thing for me. And I got like a cheeseburger
• 50:27
  and tater tots. And I was like, what is this?
• 50:32
  And then I started working and they're like,
• 50:33
  oh, you're from England. The food over there
• 50:35
  is awful. And I was like, because the food here
• 50:40
  is. Yeah. So I guess, but it comes down to like
• 50:45
  what your palate is used to, what you grew up
• 50:47
  with. Maybe that's, that's what it is. Yeah.
• 50:49
  Yeah, probably. But also like just, you know,
• 50:51
  like you guys and vegetables, weird. Like for
• 50:54
  us, if you go to a restaurant and you order a
• 50:57
  meal, like you're presented with a side plate
• 51:01
  of like, you know, sugar snap peas, baby carrots
• 51:05
  and like broccoli and then potatoes. Like that's
• 51:08
  every meal. My brother came to visit with his
• 51:10
  family and they were like, this is the first
• 51:13
  piece of broccoli we've seen in a week. Uh, yeah,
• 51:20
  Americans don't like their vegetables. I mean,
• 51:22
  I don't mind it. I could definitely use more
• 51:23
  vegetables in my diet, but, um, yeah, that's,
• 51:27
  you know, we should take after you. I now my
• 51:30
  perspective has changed. Now I'm going to go
• 51:32
  from, Oh, English food seems terrible to like,
• 51:34
  Oh no, actually it might be better tasting. And
• 51:38
  more health conscious than American food with
• 51:39
  the emphasis on vegetables with every meal. Yeah,
• 51:41
  yeah. Oh, no, now we have started getting a few
• 51:44
  chain pubs, which is a bit weird. But like last
• 51:47
  time I went home and we got to chain pub, like
• 51:50
  all the calories, like the calories and the salt
• 51:52
  content and the fat content is all, which kind
• 51:55
  of ruins a good fish and chips, in my opinion.
• 51:58
  Right, right, right. They're trying to... Yeah,
• 52:01
  they're big into public education and awareness,
• 52:03
  right? Because public educating the people, it's
• 52:06
  how everyone learns and, you know. You would
• 52:08
  think so. The world gets saved. Exactly, exactly.
• 52:13
  One eye patch at a time. Oh, Sally, this was
• 52:19
  so much fun. I'm so glad that we got a chance
• 52:22
  to talk. Now, for anyone who is listening or
• 52:25
  watching this conversation and they want to get
• 52:27
  in touch with you directly, is there a way to
• 52:29
  do that, like through social media or a website?
• 52:31
  Do you have anything that they can contact you
• 52:33
  with, or are you going to keep it professional
• 52:34
  and just be like, oh, just go see your doctor?
• 52:39
  Well, we're always so you could, so if you go
• 52:43
  to, for some reason with our website, you have
• 52:45
  to put the HT... TP in for some reason, but if
• 52:49
  you go to www .orthoptics, O R T H O P T I C
• 52:55
  S dot org. Um, that's our, our, our website.
• 53:00
  Um, and that's got patient education on us, but
• 53:02
  also you can reach out, absolutely reach out
• 53:05
  to us. Um, and we can, you know, sometimes ask
• 53:08
  the questions or sometimes just put you, you
• 53:10
  know, in direct, cause we can be, we can be tough
• 53:12
  to find. So depending on you, where you are,
• 53:15
  it might actually just be easy to reach out and
• 53:16
  go, okay, I'm worried about my kid. What do I
• 53:19
  do? Where do I go? And we're, we're small, but
• 53:22
  we're passionate. So. If there's a kid in need,
• 53:25
  we're probably going to go, we'll figure it out.
• 53:28
  Give that website again? www .orthoptics .org.
• 53:36
  I really enjoyed this conversation, Sally. You're
• 53:38
  quite a vibe. I hope we can do this again sometime.
• 53:41
  Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And for all of you listening
• 53:44
  and watching, until next time, let deliciousness
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