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Siders Family Update | Fact vs. Fiction After the Gag Order · Justice For

• justice for: The judge has placed multiple gag orders in the Ciders case. I was really hoping this wasn't going to happen, But if we have learned anything from the Idaho Four case, this gag order is not going to stop the armchair detectives from spreading misinformation and speculation. If anything, it's gonna ramp it up. It has. So We are back with you to today to dissect all the misinformation while going through all the legit information that has been released or uncovered. Yeah. Which includes a lot of motions filed by the adult cider's lawyers. But please remember this is an ongoing investigation with sixteen innocent children in the middle of it all, who all deserve compassion, understanding, and above all else privacy. Yes. So welcome back to another episode of Justice 4. We are your hosts. I'm Jackie. And I'm Sam. Before we get into it today, follow, subscribe button wherever you're listening to, watching us, following us on well, if you're following us, you don't have to because you already follow us. But you know what I'm saying. You if you if you're on the Facebook's in the morning, follow us. If you're on the Instagram's in the evening, follow us. When you're on TikTok on the toilet at two A.M., follow us. You can also check out our website, Justice4 Podcast dot com. Yes. We have merch on there, we have case submissions, we have resources, a billion of them. all of our episodes, pictures, how to follow us. If you can't find us on a platform, go on there, just click the t icon and it takes you there. Yep. We're fancy like that. If you have already been following us on everything, leave us a comment, leave us a review, all of that stuff. Cool. Also, I see that you guys see our post. If you guys could just go ahead and just like it for me real quick or react to it or leave a little happy face comment. Apparently we have stars on Facebook. I don't know how that works. If y'all know how to leave a star, leave a star. so i the interaction helps. I'm seeing that a lot more people are seeing our posts. But if you guys could start clicking on it, it's just a quick little quick little doop. Just a little like noop or double tap on Instagram, it'd be so helpful to us. All right. Sam already just told me she's not ready for this, so Yeah, before she even asked. I know she asks every time and I'm always gonna say no. I know. A couple weeks ago we covered a breaking case out of Ohio. While police were executing a search warrant, sixteen children ranging from the ages eighteen months to eighteen years old were found in a twelve by twelve room. Mm-hmm. Four adults living in the home were taken into custody. Seventy three year old Gary Siders Senior, 67 year old Christina Siders, 36 year old Gary Siders Jr. and 33 year old Elizabeth Siders. All four being charged with second degree child endangerment. Since we have released that episode, so much and so little has come out. All at the same time. Yeah yeah. Now that there's a gag order in place, it's a great time to go over what is fact versus what is speculation. While exploring the many complicated layers of this family that sheds a little light on how this all could have happened. We have a lot that we are going to cover today. So get comfy, grab a drink, grab a snack, and don't forget to buckle up. Because the more that comes out or doesn't come out about this family, the weirder it all gets. Yeah. So the first myth we're bustin' is that the children were all confined to that twelve by twelve room. It's definitely looking more like all the kids ended up in that twelve by twelve room when the police showed up. Yeah, that makes sense. But it's Definitely looking like they had free room of the house. Not that you could really have free room of this house, but I'm just saying I don't think they were con it's not looking like they are confined in that room twenty four seven. Yes. Speaking of the condition of the kids. Out of sixteen kids, two were lifelighted in critical condition. Seven additional kids were hospitalized, and one reportedly had to be innovated. It was that bad. That all 16 children immediately received medical attention after being taken out of the house. And that is all we know about their medical conditions, which is beyond fine. And I know I'm gonna start sounding like a broken record here soon. But we do not need to know information about minor children. We do not need to know if they are split up or together in foster homes. We do not need to know where they are, and we do not need to know their names or see their pictures. I cannot emphasize this enough. We do not need any of that about these children. No. At all. No. Leave the fucking kids alone. Leave them alone. Let them start living their lives. Because they are going to have a hard enough life because of how and the conditions they were raised in. Yeah. They're going to need a lot of therapy and they are going to need to learn healthy coping skills. They do not need the public prying into their lives as well. Just let these kids be kids for the first time. Yeah. I watched a great video on law and crime. They had a psychologist on there talking about the kids being placed in therapeutic foster care. Therapeutic foster care, also known as treatment foster care, is a highly specialized clinical form of foster placement designed for children who have experienced profound trauma, abuse, or neglect. Okay. Unlike traditional foster homes, these environments function as active treatment settings. they have specialized training for these foster parents. In these homes, they have advanced behavioral and psychological training to manage severe trauma responses, developmental delays, and emotional distress. These foster homes work closely with a dedicated team of social workers, therapists, and medical professionals who provide intensive ongoing therapy directly to the children. Yeah. Because of the round-the-clock specialized care required for therapeutic foster care, it's significantly more expensive than your standard foster care. It costs about 150 to 250 per child per day. And as we mentioned in our previous episode, Vinton County is a small county, and we have since found out it's the poorest county in Ohio. Not to mention Hamden, where they lived, wasn't even a town, it's a village. Yep. When the county assumed custody of the sixteen children, they instantly doubled the number of kids in the county's custody. They suddenly faced a massive financial crisis, and this on top of Gary Sr. medical needs almost bankrupting the county, which we will get more into in a bit. Yeah, that shit's crazy. Officials put the total annual placement cost of caring for the sixteen children. Estimated costs of $150 to $250 per child per day, totaling $850,000 a year. Monthly therapeutic expenses for all 16 children is projected to cost up to $120,000 per month, totaling nearly $1.5 million over the next year. Obviously, Venton County does not have the resources for this, so they applied for a $1 million emergency state grant. And the Ohio Department of Youth and Children requested and secured this one million dollars in emergency funding from the Ohio Controlling Board. And this money is in a special fund earmarked strictly for the immediate care of these sixteen children, and that's it. In addition to this, the Venton County prosecutor, William Archer, requested an additional twenty thousand dollars from county commissioners to cover mounting prosecution costs, administrative burdens, and staff overtime. But he didn't stop there. He's publicly urging local leaders to continue lobbying state lawmakers for more aid, warning that the initial one million dollars it's not gonna cover these long term costs. No. So I never thought about the money side of this. No. I never thought about the money side of this. It's crazy, but I'm glad that they're getting it. Yes. So let's go back to the Gary Siders Sr. Okay. He is released on a recognizance bond to the hospital. So technically, Gary Siders Sr. is out on bond, but he remains in the hospital. During Gary's transfer to jail, he suffered a fall while being evaluated from the fall. It was determined that he had serious underlying medical conditions that needed to be treated immediately in a hospital. I'm pretty sure it was a stroke, wasn't it? We're gonna get there. Okay, not bad. Ohio law requires each county to be responsible for all inmates' medical care while awaiting trial and in custody. And it was quickly discovered that the cost of Gary Senior's medical care would exhaust the county's funds and bankrupt local taxpayers. Yeah. So that's the only reason he's out on bond and if he is released from the hospital, he will be on GPS monitoring. But from how the prosecutor said that last part during the press conference, it doesn't sound like Gary Sr. being released from the hospital is something that will happen. and of course due to HIPAA laws, we don't know specifics given on his medical conditions and we won't. The speculation accompanying that is that Gary Sr. suffered a stroke sometime before the arrest, but how long before is speculated to be years to months before. From the pictures we have seen of Gary from a few years ago compared to his mugshot, I can definitely see how this is something floating around, but just to be clear, it has not been confirmed. Yes. Yeah. Something that has been confirmed through birth certificates and birth records is that Elizabeth gave birth to all sixteen children in a hospital. Most had a midwife that signed off on the birth. Yes. Most of them had a midwife that signed off on the births, but there were also doctors who signed off on the births as well. There was a lot of speculation that some of the younger children could belong to the older children. We even discussed that as a possibility in our previous episode. And much to my surprise, it looks like Elizabeth did in fact give birth to all sixteen of those children. Huh. It has also officially been confirmed that on november twentieth, twenty twenty two, Elizabeth gave birth prematurely at twenty four weeks to a set of conjoined twins. They were joined face to face and at the chest they shared an upper abdomen along with vital organs. Unfortunately, Bailey Lee Siders and Faith Lee Siders only lived for an hour due to how prematurely they were born. We do actually have a picture of their gravesite and where they were buried. A lot of people were like, Well, if they didn't have money for this, how can they have money for that? There's actually state programs that help with burials if you can't afford them for children. especially when they are infants in the hospital and stuff. So hospitals possible. They did go through a funeral home and all of that as well. Mm-hmm. So if you've never had to experience the loss of a loved one and had to pay for their funeral cost, it's fucking expensive. It's a lot. It is fucking expensive. So there are good hearted people out there that do donate to help families like that. So let's talk about the fact that officials initially reported that the oldest cider child couldn't even spell their name. Yeah. Which led many of us to speculate that these children never went to school and never integrated into society. Mm-hmm. We now know that the six oldest children were once in school. Once? Mm-hmm. According to an article by WSAZ, court records filed in October of twenty twenty one show six official complaints by Gallia, G-A-L-L-I-A. G A L L I A Okay. Gallia County Local Schools against Gary Junior and Elizabeth. The complaints say that six of their children had missed every day of school that academic year when all six were enrolled at Adaville Elementary. So they were enrolled, but they didn't go. Mm-hmm. The records also show that in January 2022, the six cases were dropped because the court could not locate the parents. The complaints were filed by attendance officer Ronald Hammond, and label the children as habitually truant because they had amounted more than seventy-two hours of unexcused absences. The complaints also state that the parents were warned about the consequences of the children missing too much school. You can get arrested on truancy. Yeah, that is real. The court filing gives a little bit more to the speculation that they were moving around to avoid being detected. The birth records also have counties or addresses that Elizabeth lived at at the time of the births. The that timeline adds up to them moving to the Omer Street house around the time that they couldn't be located about truancy. Huh. So the oldest six of children attended some level of school up to twenty twenty one, which I think is generous. I think they only went to school till COVID hit. Which makes the rumors some of the kids having TikTok accounts a lot more believable. That is true. Law and crime confirm that some of the older children do in fact have TikTok accounts. None of them show videos of themselves or the inside of the house. There are a few videos of cats and it appears to be at the house on Omer Street. Yeah. And based on interactions on the accounts, the people they follow and the interactions with these people, it has been confirmed that these TikTok accounts do belong to some of the Ciders children. Interesting. While most of the videos are reposted videos, meaning they didn't make the videos themselves, someone else did, and they are just reposting that video on their accounts. Yeah. Nonetheless, these videos do give us an insight into what was going on in the house and how it changed over the years. Yeah. You can tell a lot by someone on what they repost. So not me. I'm all over the place, but one video has a caption that reads, How I felt after feeling uncomfortable hugging my own dad. Another video says, Me seeing a little girl spending time slash having fun with her dad. I used to be daddy's little girl. Another states, everyone yelling at me. Like damn, I'm trying. Another shows a scene from a movie or a TV show and it shows a father yelling at his child and the caption says My dad since I started being a teenager because I changed and I'm not the little girl he used to love. I know these are just reposted videos, but it goes to show the older kids can read and have some level of emotional maturity to recognize these feelings. It also shows that maybe it used to be different when the oldest were little and there were less kids around. Mm-hmm. Damn. I don't You weren't ready for that, were you? I was not. I don't know if I have anything that I can give you. Yeah, the TikTok confirmation was wild as I was watching that video. 'cause it's was it Andrea Levy? Or Adrienne Levy, Vlong Crime. It was her video that she did on that one and her she her sources are when she vet stuff She bets her. Yeah. Like for her to say that she went through those accounts and her team and they went through who they follow and everything, she is very confident that these are the children's that they belong to them. So let's talk about something you should never do, but of course is being done. There have been people going to the house on Omer Street and entering the house to take videos and pictures. At first no one was sure if this was the house or someone trying to pass another house off. But since then these people have gone back and made it clear this is the house. And I can't believe I have to say this, but don't do this. First of all, you don't know if the house is even safe to be in. The mold, feces, and trash alone tell you that. But first responders have said they were scared the floor was gonna give out. The walls have massive holes in them. There's feces and who knows what covering the floor. You could barely walk around the house. Stuff was thrown everywhere. Which I think is partly due to EMS and police trying to get the kids out. Yeah. I'm not saying the house was straightened up by any means to begin with, but I think there's a little bit more space to move around and just how the mattress was kind of like laying up at a slant and baby gates were kind of thrown. From police officers. I just if it looks like police and EMTs were trying to get shit out of the way to get the kids out. You gotta get gurnies. I mean, scooping kids up. I th I honestly feel like they were throwing shit out of the way to get to these kids. That's totally valid. And then obviously after everyone's out. They went in and tossed the place because they were looking for stuff. So yes, it was a horribly disgusting environment, but I feel like we had a little bit more space and movement in there. Not a lot, but They did open the fridge because people had asked about it, and there was milk in the fridge. You could see PD light bottles up on higher shelves. It it looked like a horrible hoarding house that got tossed. It really does. But still awful. There's a little bit of something other than fucking olive oil, like we were thinking though. There, there was also bugs crawling all over everything and insects flying around. And it's and that's just what you saw on the surface. Yeah. You guys Don't fucking do that. I know we we make jokes about like, we live near this, let's go to this person's house, like where this awful crime happened. We're not gonna do that. We don't don't do this. And we're not gonna like break in and take Ugh. Don't fucking do that. this is still trespassing. Yeah. And just because the door is unlocked or open doesn't mean it isn't breaking and entering. Congratulations. You have also become a criminal now. Good job. Good job. Great. And I guarantee if you get caught with those videos, you're gonna get in trouble. and they're on them. Like they literally are showing their faces on them and stuff. Okay. So let's talk about the neighbors and the community for a moment. Yeah. When all this broke, we couldn't believe no one knew the kids lived there. Yeah. Turns out the neighbors never once saw the kids outside or in a window. It could be that they just weren't paying attention. There are reports that the neighbors had been intently watching the house in the weeks leading up to the discovery of the children because they were reporting Gary Jr. for indecent exposure. It hasn't been released exactly what he was doing, but there's a lot of speculation that he was peeing off the front porch all the time, which makes sense knowing how awful the conditions were in the house. Once again, that is speculation. That's what everyone thinks this is for. Because it happened at the house. So but I'm not sure. I just want to clear that up. It hasn't been confirmed what his charges are. Unfortunately with the gag order in place, we're not gonna find out until there's a trial. we'll get to that. On top of that, we know the condition that the kids were found in. So if the neighbors had only just started watching the house, I don't think the kids were really anywhere in sight at that point, you know? 'Cause we obviously have a few kids who were not running around and moving around. If you they're saying had they been twenty four hours later, they would have been dead. They were sick. They were so bad. While the general neighborhood was completely in the dark, employees at the local Dollar General and volunteers at a community food pantry interacted with the Ciders adults on weekly and eventually a daily basis. The ciders were calculated about how they went about these interactions to get what they needed without drawing attention to themselves, the horrific conditions they were living in. They were careful in what they said and how they said it. And something I find odd is that they would often bring one or two children with them when they went to these places. Yeah. For nearly two years, Christina and Gary Sr. visited the Blessing Box Food Pantry in Hamden. They went to the pantry about once a week, so the workers got to know them. According to workers at the food pantry, Gary and Christina explicitly told volunteers they were caring for sixteen grandchildren. The local pastor who worked at the food pantry described Christina during these visits as cordial and sweet. He noted that while he occasionally saw a couple of the children and thought they seemed quiet or shy, they never appeared visibly abused or unclean in public. With pantry workers knowing about her massive family she was helping provide for, they willingly gave her extra food, including large quantities of meat, fresh produce, and bread. So that answers one really big question about how they were feeding all these kids and themselves without government benefits. Pantry. Let alone Elizabeth getting enough calories to sustain pregnancies and breastfeeding. yeah. You don't have any c do you know how much you have to like keep up to ha produce breast milk? You have to keep on top of your eating and your calories and your protein or else you're gonna quit producing. Makes sense. In our previous episode, we talked about the Dollar General employees at the Hamden Dollar General, who interacted with Gary Jr. and Elizabeth almost every single night right before the store closed at ten PM. Storeclerk Ariel recalled that the parents would consistently buy the same bulk items every night. Water, vegetable oil, and sometimes sugar diapers. She went on to say that the parents almost always brought one child into the store at a time, keeping them extremely close. The few children she did see over time appeared painfully thin, completely pale, and had their hair hanging heavily over their faces. The children were strictly forbidden from speaking or interacting with anyone. Quickly the employees knew something was wrong and actually tried to help by donating clothes, deodorant, hygiene products to the family, though they said they never saw the family use them. But I don't think they realized there was sixteen kids at home. She also said there's a highly potent foul odor that clung to the family and lingered in the store aisles long after they left. I have no doubt in my mind. So I wonder if they were giving out like small amounts of that and it was being used, but there's twenty of them in this house. And they're probably like They're probably using it on babies. You think they're using it on the babies? I would if anybody was getting I would assume it's gonna be the babies. I would hope. Yeah. Ultimately, while the food pantry workers knew a large number of children existed, they believed they were being cared for by a sweet grandmother. Meanwhile, the dollar store employees could see signs of severe poverty and neglect, but they had no idea what was really going on. I don't I don't blame them. I don't think anyone could imagine what was being hidden at home. My biggest question is that the pastor and the pantry workers never smelled this odor or saw anything that was red flag like. They also said they were clean. Yeah, but the Dollar General employees did. So we don't have a timeline specifics, but maybe the food pantry was before it got bad enough them to be doing the Dollar General trips every night. Yeah. Vin County prosecutor William Archer had confirmed that only Gary Sr. and Christina were receiving government assistance. They won't say what it was, but I I'm gonna assume it could have been social security and food stamps, but who knows? Yeah. He also confirmed that Gary Junior and Elizabeth were not receiving any benefits and that in the eyes of the government, government assistance programs, these children did not exist. Which is just it's just mind boggling to me. What was the point if they weren't getting money for the kids? That is usually what we see the motivation being. I think in order to understand how all this happened and how it could all have gotten this bad, because having sixteen children isn't a crime. There are large families like this all over the world and have been for hundreds of years. But what is a crime? Is not being able to take care of your children financially, physically, and emotionally, and then continuing to have them. What is a crime is making children live in conditions we wouldn't even allow our pets or livestock to step foot in, let alone live in. It is a crime to not educate your children, whether that be in a public setting or at home. You cannot claim to love your children if you let them live in environments like this. I'm having a thought. Or do you have a spot for me for thoughts? Right now. Go for it. Amazing. So I wonder if they just chose not to look into government assistance because I don't know, for some fucking reason. or maybe again they didn't want the kids they didn't want people to know about the kids. I know we've mentioned that before. I and now that we have confirmed that all of these children were Elizabeth's children. Mm-hmm. I think that Gary Jr. was just Constantly sexually abusing her. She was pregnant nonstop. Non stop. And I know that her attorney has come out and said that her and Gary wanted a big family and God's children and all of this. so I can see how Elizabeth may have loved them, but she couldn't help them. Yes. Because she was also in enduring all of this as well from Gary Junior. Yeah. And for him it was just, that's my wife. I'm just gonna keep fucking her every night. Let me let me help you a little bit. Keep going. In order to try and understand how all this happened, we need to look at the history in these families of teen marriages and pregnancies resulting in very large families. I forgot that you did this. Marriage records compiled by the Columbus Stitch P dispatch Which is a a newspaper. We'll talk about them more in a minute because they they are on it for this case, man. They have revealed a multi generational pattern of child and teenage marriages within the Ciders family. This information coming to light is igniting fierce policy debates in the Ohio Senate to completely ban child marriage under the age of eighteen. Currently, you only have to be seventeen to marry someone over eighteen, but they cannot be more than four years older. And I'm not sure how closely that last part is followed. We have I originally had three and I found a fourth specific documented instances outline the family's history of marrying exceptionally young. First, let's clarify some of that marriage confusion from our first episode. Elizabeth Siders was fifteen in March of 2008 when she married eighteen year old Gary Siders Jr. At the time, Elizabeth had only an eighth grade education and was heavily pregnant with their first child. Gary at eighteen years old only had a ninth grade education. I have since learned that that mishap in ages came from Elizabeth's brother who likes to talk out of his ass and doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about half the time. Which is why we're not gonna talk about him very much in here because half the shit that was wrong came from him because he came out later and goes, yeah, I mean I was a little iffy on the ages and the dates. I hate been in out of prison as well. I fucking hate men. Go on. Since Elizabeth wasn't old enough under Ohio law to marry Gary, they crossed the state border into Mason County, West Virginia to wed in two thousand eight. West Virginia had no legal age minimum for marriage, allowing the union to go through with parental consent and a circuit court judge's signature. Both families were present. In our previous episode we said that just Christina took them. Both families approved of this, and at first I was shocked about that until I learned that this is a family tradition. In 2002, Tessie Wright Siders was only 14 years old and pregnant when she married 48-year-old Richard Siders, who was Gary Sr.'s cousin. Their marriage took place legally in Ohio because this was years before the state instituted stricter age minimums. In 2003, 15-year-old Virginia Siders got married to Joshua Saunders. And I don't have an age for him, but I bet it's not her age. And they were also married in Ohio. Elizabeth's mother, Lori Raines, married Brian Russell when she was just fifteen, and she was pregnant at the time. God wait, do you want to add the obituary for Dorothy Lucille White? Please. Dorothy is Christina Siders' mother. Making her the grandmother of Gary Siders Jr. And her obituary revealed that she had thirty-six grandchildren, one hundred and eight great grandchildren, and thirty-eight great great grandchildren. So clearly this is a generational thing to get married young and have a lot of babies. And hey, I'm not knocking it, but only if you can take care of your kids and afford them. You weren't ready for that, were you? Bro. I wasn't ready for triple digits. Jackie. I'm still stuck on the fourteen and forty-eight year old too. What the fuck? Right? What the fuck, Jackie? There are pictures and posts going around of Gary Sr. and Christina, and they look like completely different people from the mugshots and the court hearings we have seen. Yeah. And it looks and sounds like at one point it wasn't like this. At one point they were managing. And I'm not saying the houses were immaculate, but I'm saying that at one point this was probably a Normal hoarder situation with a bunch of kids running around. Yeah. there's a family member that came out, made a post about she's a niece of Gary Sr. and Christina, and talking about how she doesn't know what happened, their house never looked like that. Like this is like she doesn't even recognize them and she loves spending time with them and all of this. And so that it just you know, I've really been thinking about. What all went into this, you know? Mm-hmm. And and I think there are a few catalysts that got us to this point. But before I go further, I want to make it very clear. I am not making excuses for them or saying that what they did or how they lived was in any way okay. What I'm saying is that I think I can see how this snowballed into all of this. Based on the truancy timeline and the birth records that show when the back-to-back twins happen, I think that COVID was the beginning of the end for this family. I think this could be when Gary Sr. had his alleged stroke. There is speculation that Christina has dementia, which could have been setting in without anyone noticing. Yeah. Since they were such a big part of helping care for the kids in the house, the house began to fall behind, then everything else followed. Twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two was the first school year where being out sick for any symptoms and fear of spreading COVID wasn't happening anymore. You just wore a mask. Unless you tested positive for COVID, then you still had to stay home. So they were probably going sporadically to school during the twenty twenty, twenty twenty one COVID school year. Yeah. Then they moved because they had already received warnings about the children missing school. And it wasn't until the following year that the kids missed every day. So I'm wondering if the kids got re enrolled, they never showed up because they had already moved. Yeah. And that their warning was from the previous school year. Mm-hmm. And that's why I don't think they attended a single day. But none of the children were enrolled into another school after this. Over the next four years, Christina and Gary Senior's health could have continued to decline while Elizabeth suddenly began having back to back twin pregnancies. Suddenly there are a lot of people to care for and the two adults that were helping you suddenly can't anymore. Yeah. And I they went from ten kids to sixteen in a couple years. Yeah. With losing a set of twins. And it would have been more. And I'm with every single one of you who is screaming. Why didn't she pick up the phone and call for help? Go somewhere and ask for help. Personally, I think Elizabeth was scared of what would happen. But also she only has an eighth grade education. Yeah. And Gary a ninth grade education. And family history has shown us this is normal. Yeah. In my opinion, Gary is the only one who doesn't look like he was starving, to be honest with you. Period. There is speculation that Gary Jr. was controlling the house and how things went. And honestly, based on what we know, I think that could be a possibility. I know in our original episode we talked about Christina being the ringleader and her just looking mean. Look at us being a part of the problem. But here we are fixing it. Once again, this is just my personal opinion on all of this. We all want the answer to the number one question everyone is asking. How did this happen? Unfortunately, I think this case is less of the pure evil narrative and more about what generational poverty looks like, not only in the Appalachia area, but in America. So what is generational poverty? It's when a family remains impoverished for at least two consecutive generations, trapping parents, children, and grandchildren in a persistent cycle of economic hardship. Unlike situational poverty, which is a temporary financial dip triggered by a sudden crisis like a job loss or medical emergency, generational poverty is systemic and sustained by long term barriers. Breaking free from generational poverty is exceptionally difficult because its causes are deeply intertwined and self reinforcing. To start with the obvious, there's a lack of wealth and assets. Families cannot build equity or pass down inheritances, stopping many from ever owning a home, going to college, or moving out of these areas. Yeah. Schools in low income neighborhoods often lack adequate funding and resources. Children frequently start school with lower academic social skills, creating gaps that rarely ever close. A lack of local corporate infrastructure and low access professional networks limits employment to unstable low-wage jobs. Chronic illnesses, nutritional deficits, and poor healthcare access pres prevent consistent employment for parents and regular school attendance for children. All of this creates a survivalist mindset. The constant economic stress forces a focus on immediate daily survival over long-term financial planning, asset building, or higher education. Once again, I am not making excuses for this family. Nope. But it has become very clear that a lot of people living in America following this case are not aware that there are people all over the country living like this. There are towns without without drinkable water or running water. There are families living in houses just like the ciders, but with holes in the roof and holes in the floor. This is what generational poverty can and does look like in America. Now, I'm not saying everyone in poverty lives like the ciders or has houses that look like theirs. You can live in poverty and keep a clean house and care for your kids. But a lot of children in poverty are living in unsafe hoarding environments, and hoarding isn't just stuff you buy. It's trash. It's things you never throw away. It can be pets, and those are the worst kind. I have been seeing a lot of videos and posts lately about kids who grew up in houses like this and how it deeply affects how they live their everyday lives, even as adults. When they're out of the situation. I personally have experience with this. My mom is a hoarder, and she comes from a family of them. Now it was nothing like this, but I remember the pathways that were made to get to each room, rooms you could only step a few feet into. I was embarrassed to invite my friends over. I remember always wanting to go to their houses and never mine. Fortunately, I didn't live in a house like that for my entire childhood. But the trauma from it, it's still there. Having a lightly cluttered house or dishes piled in the sink or trash that's not taken out causes me anxiety and stress. I get overwhelmed easier when my environment isn't organized and clean. Having watched my family struggle with this, I understand it's not as simple as telling somebody to get rid of stuff or just clean more frequently. It's mental. They need therapy to work through what is causing this and to learn coping skills needed to not let this happen anymore. Mm-hmm. But I did not grow up in poverty. I grew up in middle class. Hoarding is just not a poverty problem. It can happen in any income bracket. Yes it can. This is just so much more common than people realize. Yes, it very much is. And this case is really making some people's privilege show. Mm-hmm. According to the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine, roughly one-third or 34% of children who grow up in low-income families in the United States remain in poverty as adults. The federal baseline for poverty in America is $33,000 in annual income for a family of four. Meaning millions of families are trapped in multi- in a multi-generational cycle below this threshold. The length of time a child spends in poverty directly dictates their financial outcomes later in life. Chronically poor children, approximately six point four percent of children born into poverty will spend their entire lives below the poverty line. One in ten children spend at least half their childhood, nine or more years living in poverty. Unfortunately, Appalachian, Ohio. suffers from entrenched systematic generational poverty that lags behind both the state average and national economic benchmarks. The region's isolation, historic decline in manufacturing and coal industries, and structural barriers create a cycle where escape from poverty is uniquely difficult. The difference between Appalachian, Ohio and the rest of the count country is evident across several core financial metrics. The poverty rate across thirty-two counties comprising Appalachian, Ohio Sits at seventeen percent, where the national US average is notably lower at thirteen percent. the Appalachian Regional Commission or ARC reports that the median household income is roughly eighty two percent of the national US medium household income. Which means eighty two percent of thirty three thousand a year. Yeah. Which already isn't enough for one person. Yeah, that's let alone a family of four. I cannot imagine. No. That's not my boss pointed out that's not even rent for a year. It's not. Thirty three thousand dollars a year does not even pay your rent for a year. I like half I'm half tempted to do the math on my rent right now. Yeah. This poverty strikes the youngest demographics in southeastern Ohio the hardest, making upward economic mobility for future generations a steep uphill battle. Approximately twenty two percent of children in Appalachian, Ohio live below the federal poverty line. Reports by organizations like the Children's Defense Fund of Ohio consistently show that the top eleven to twelve counties with the highest rates of child poverty in the state are located entirely within the Appalachian border. Due to a lack of livable wage jobs, the regional need for SNAP is severe. For Appalachian families with children, SNAP participation climbs to twenty one percent, nearly three percentage points higher than the rest of nation. Poverty in America is an epidemic that continues to grow as the income class system breaks down. With gaps between the classes growing larger and larger, it's making it harder and harder for these kids to break the generational poverty cycle as adults. So before we get into where this case stands legally with gag orders and motions that have been filed lately, Sam, what are your thoughts on this part that I know we have kind of been opposites on? My whole it's less evil and more gener like we're less turpin and more just very layered effects of generational poverty. I guess my thoughts are like I see, I see it. I lived in the Midwest for a long time and it's rough out there. And you understand, yeah. I understand that for sure. And I completely understand what you're saying. And absolutely like even if the eighteen year old wanted to leave, she couldn't. No. She had nothing. She would not be able to go. I mean her family was always there for her and we're gonna talk about that later. And she could have always gone to her family. But those kids. Not Elizabeth. The eighteen year old child. hurt, got you. I thought you were talking about Elizabeth at each I mean Elizabeth also couldn't. Okay. I thought you were talking about Elizabeth. Sorry, sorry. Okay, say that again. I apologize. You're good, you're good. Like Elizabeth could have tried to leave, her family would have been there, but I guarantee her mom would have like, No, go back to him. Like, which also makes me upset with her mom being like, I posted it every year on her birthday to see if she would see it. You allowed this. You literally allowed this. Yeah, and with given how much like how large of a family, and they literally all lived in this area. Yeah. like on I don't think I know it later, but I did read like Christina Siders never lived outside of this area of Ohio. She has never been like her attorney was doing this in order to get her bond taken out. She has never been outside of this area. Listen, there is people in the county that my family is from in West Virginia who have never left the county. Okay. Yikes. Okay, just you you have to understand in this area there are people there's could you imagine never leaving Caldo Springs? Ever. There are people who are totally content with never leaving the county they live in. Yeah, no, that's wild. To be fair, color is because it's massive though. Whereas this is a village. Yes there's nothing. So s so yes, I I completely understand what you're saying. I genuinely do. Especially because they probably felt they had nowhere to go. They had no one they could turn to because they would just be like, no, go back. This is normal. Yeah, exactly. This is normal for them. But at the same fucking time, dude, I can't It feels like there's something else here. Like there's there's something like else missing that we haven't heard of yet or hasn't been said. Like I feel like there's some missing puzzle piece that's going to make this somehow make sense. I just don't know what it is. Like you have said, there's tons of families out there that are huge, huge families but they still fucking take care of their kids. And they still take care of their houses, w whether it be Mike's aunt has ten kids. Mike's aunt had ten kids. That house was always clean. But with that also being said, like all of those big families on that have become like famous for being like John and Kate plus eight, the Duggars. Those are horrible examples because both of those both had abuse in them. But you know what I'm saying. The thing is though, those big families like that, there's always this kind of thing happening. Yeah, there's always something happening in it. There's always something happening. So it's like I don't know. It just I just can't fucking fathom how someone could let their family live like this. I can't. And whether it seems normal to them or not, this wasn't their normal before. No. Why is it normal now? Yes. And I think a lot of it has to do with Gary Sr. and Christina's decline in health. That's fair. I think that's gonna be the key to where and when this broke down. I think that really is the change that happened. It absolutely could be. And I Because Gary ain't clean in house. I think Gary Junior was too distracted about getting his fucking dick wet all the time. Personally. Yeah. than giving a shit about his family. And also we have two people with an eighth and ninth grade education playing house and grandma and grandpa are enabling it. Yeah. So I feel there's just there's too much involved. We can't blame it one way or another. Like we can't blame it as gener generational poverty, but we can't blame it as just mental. We c like it's a combination. Yes. It's almost like a perfect storm. Absolutely. And I'm just happy that they got f fucking caught. Before any of these kids died. Yes. Also, I have seen rumors going around that two of the k kids died. Clearly that's not true. Yes, because we would have had other charges brought forward. Yes we would and yeah, that's not so if you have seen any of those rumors, that ain't real, y'all. I've not seen that. And if it has happened, they are doing really good shit with that gag order in place. Great shit hidden. That could be why the gag order happened. It could be so it could But we don't know. I haven't personally seen that. But yeah, no, I've I've seen But that's also why we're doing this episode because there's stuff like that going around. It is pure speculation at this time. Yes. With the gag order in place. I know you're gonna say this. Mm they can't release shit, you guys. That's what a gag order is for. But yeah, they've been releasing things, that's kinda funny. Judge Lena Rogers has approved two separate gag orders in the Siders case, as well as motion for competency hearings. while formal felony court dates remain paused pending grand jury indictments. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So let's talk gag orders. On july fourteenth, Gary Siders Junior was granted his gag order, and on july twenty third, Christina Siders was granted her gag order. These orders ban all lawyers, investigators, support staff, law enforcement, and court employees from publicly discussing the Kate's merit or evidence. Mm-hmm. That's a lot of people to be included in a gag order. Normally we don't have that many people included in a gag order. Usually it's just a handful. This is a lot. This caused the Columbus dispatch. You know that newspaper I was talking about? To file two civil complaints with the Ohio Supreme Court challenging the constitutionality of both gag orders. Ha. Experts argue that Judge Rogers bypassed state protocol by failing to hold a public hearing to consider less restrictive alternatives before cutting off public information. God damn. So yeah, so when I told you earlier that the Corpus dispatch is going hard, they are going hard. How dare you keep us from the news that we put out? Right though I like it. They're like, excuse me, I was collecting that. Thank you. Elizabeth and Gary Senior's legal teams have not requested any gag orders as of late July 2026. On july twenty ninth, twenty twenty six, Judge Rogers approved new motions ordering formal psychiatric competency evaluations for Gary Jr. and Christina Siders. Gary Sr. was granted a competency evaluation as well earlier in July. All of this is very telling. the Southeast Ohio Regional Jail has been given 30 days to have a court appointed psychiatrist evaluate both Gary Jr. and Christina. These evaluations will determine if they are mentally fit to understand the charges and assist in their own defense. Elizabeth Siders is currently the only one who has not had a competency evaluation ordered. although her defence attorney is actively considering requesting one. Huh. So they're Their competency should be done soon. In the next thirty days, yes. When was that? Do we know when that was So 'cause they were On the twenty ninth, she approved the motions for the competency hearing, so they have thirty days from the twenty ninth. Got it. Okay. For theirs too. Gary's was earlier, so I think he had thirty days from when his was approved. Okay. So within the next two to three weeks. Yeah. Okay. Gary Jr.'s attorney is trying really hard to keep all of Gary's mental health documents sealed from the public. Fortunately, the Venton County prosecutor, William Archer, successfully opposed this and the judge denied the motion to seal the competency request. Hmm. There are currently no trial dates scheduled for the child endangerment charges because all four family members waive their preliminary hearings on july seventh, twenty twenty six. The entire felony prosecution is paused until a Venton County grand jury convenes. Unlike larger counties, Venton County's grand jury only meets once every month or two. You and I don't understand why we can't have an emergency grand jury. Like why can't we just call this shit together real quick? Ugh. 'Cause politics are weird. The Ohio Attorney General's office and local prosecutors are still preparing evidence to present to the grand jury for formal indictments. I also feel like that's why I do. Like I said earlier, we still don't know exactly what Gary Jr. was doing outside the house on Omer Street in May of twenty twenty six that led to indecency charges being filed against him. Yeah. This is what we do now. The pretrial conference was originally scheduled for july ninth, then it was delayed to july twenty third, and the Columbus Dispatch reports it has now been continued a second time to august thirteenth at ten AM in Venton County. Gary Jr.'s defense attorney, Lee Roberts, Junior it's really funny that a junior's representing a junior sorry. Filed a formal discovery motion regarding the indecency allegations. Roberts indicated he wants a full review of the evidence behind the exposure claims before advising Gary Jr. on whether to accept a plea deal or take the misdemeanors to trial. Here's where it gets tricky though. Because Judge Rogers just ordered a thirty day psychiatric competency evaluation for Gary Jr. on july twenty ninth, it remains unclear if the august thirteenth indecency hearing will proceed, or if it will be paused alongside his felony child endagement case pending the medical results. Hmm. Right? Okay. Huh. Both Elizabeth Siders and Christina Siders have officially filed separate motions requesting the court to modify their $300,000 bonds to recognizance bonds so they can be released from jail custody. Elizabeth's attorney Tommy Stoly no Stoly Stoly Stoley filed a bond modification request arguing that keeping her held on a $300,000 cash or surety bail violates her constitutional rights due to her inability to pay. I didn't know that was a thing. I I know it's a thing when it's like millions of dollars, but I didn't know it was a thing when it was like three hundred thousand dollars. that was only a thing when it was really high. Stop breaking the law. He further stated that because all sixteen children have already been legally removed and placed into state care, there is zero risk of Elizabeth interacting with or posing an ongoing danger to the alleged victims while waiting trial. He further emphasized that the thirty three year old mother has absolutely no prior criminal record and that she is fully willing to cooperate with the strict court mandated conditions including wearing a GPS ankle monitor and submitting to home checks, which would be at Elizabeth's mother's house because her mom is fully committed to helping Elizabeth in any way she can. I'm on the fence a little. Christina Sider's public defender Kendra Roberts' argument for getting her bond reduced is the following. Documents filed by her attorney state that Christina was the sole responsible adult holding the family together. She legally paid the rent, managed the utilities, and bought the necessities for the household, further stating that the defense has received and I quote scant evidence. tying Christina to any violent acts of abuse or physical harm. She argues the state has only proven that Christina lived in an unsanitary house, which does not warrant an unpayable three hundred thousand dollar bail. Of course, ending this argument with Christina's advanced age and serious underlying medical conditions, she poses no threat to the public or flight risk. Which goes back to the fact that she's only lived in this area of Ohio. She does not have any family members or anybody outside of this area, so she's not a flight risk. My thing is where's she gonna go stay? I mean I know she has her family everywhere, but no one's going back to that house. No. So we have been surprised they haven't just completely condemned it yet. Right? So we have not had a ruling on their bail reductions, and there are no further court dates scheduled as of this recording. But that's all I have for you. I I know this was a lot, but it was necessary because I feel like info is constantly coming out and it's hard to tell what's fact and what is speculation. And I don't think we will have another deep dive on this case like this. I think they'll be more featured in WTF episodes. Yeah. Which by the way y'all are getting one this week. Surprise. But what day will it be? You'll have to you'll have to like, follow, and subscribe so you don't miss it. Crazy. but yeah, so that's that's pretty much all I have. for our updates. I know that was a lot of information. I know I threw a lot of statistics at you guys, but I feel like there's statistics that need to be told. Yeah. But I mean Our first episode we really weren't far off. There was a few correction things we needed to make. We understand where the varying with how old she was in her pregnancy and if there was an older child outside the house. Yeah, it's because her brother's an idiot. So I I was gonna add in here stuff about him, but the more I started looking at other stuff, I was like, You guys can just go look up the posts and the videos that he's made and things. a lot of stuff he's had to go back on or change and I just You just you have to be careful when you get Like siblings involved, 'cause obviously they're gonna have biased opinions and I mean like at our Alo Wind episode. Precisely. So like you just gotta take what some people say with a grain of salt unless it's like factually proven. Yes. So we weren't far off, I feel we just we did it so quickly after the news had dropped that We didn't really know what we were looking at yet. Yeah. So a lot of that episode was speculation. We have some facts this time. We still have a lot of speculation though, just 'cause like we're not getting answers because we can't. Yeah. So like she said, I think a lot of the information that we're gonna be putting out is going to be not full deep dives because I it's gonna come out so slowly. Yeah. With all four of these, with how many motions that they're already putting in. We'll just probably start compiling them into WTFs. Yeah. I will say though the gag order motions And the competency hearings? It's very telling. It really, very telling. Mm-hmm. They've also released video of them being booked into custody and like Gary Siders in his wheelchair and Christina's sitting there and and we'll have links to that as well. I don't know if I'm gonna put it in here. Was he always in a wheelchair? No, I don't think so. It was the one they got him? He had the fall. So I don't know if the fall had to do as they were taking him in. Okay. Interesting. But he was ha he physically his mobility was not there. I don't think it was there before they took him out of the house. I think he was really struggling anyway. So It'll be very interesting what else comes out, but I feel like we now have a much better fact versus speculation and other things for this. Also in the episode pictures that you can find on our Facebook and on our website, I'm gonna have one broken. I'm gonna have that thing that has the birth records for the dates and the counties they were born in. I I do have that and I will put that in those pictures. That's crazy shit. So alright, jury, I would like to know what you think. Either in the comments, in a review, anywhere that you can. I know you can leave comments on Spotify and YouTube, leave it in the review on Apple, Facebook, or on our Facebook discussion post or Instagram post. Do you think this was calculated abuse? Do you think this is a severe result of generational poverty? Or do you just think this was straight neglect this was always just how it was gonna be? Ugh. I don't know, man. Yeah. But that's I mean, I have my own thoughts on it. It's just I don't know, it's a difficult situation, especially 'cause we don't have all the information. And and I think what makes it harder and worse is because there it doesn't really even look like there was any like abuse in the house. Yeah, it was just straight neglect. Yeah. It feels like and and I feel like that's more so I think what our brains are struggling to wrap around. Unless hold on. That TikTok repost that you said about daddy yelling all the time. I mean, yes, that is still it's emotional abuse. Exactly. Emotional abuse is still abuse. It's a hostile environment. It's so fighting. Just because it's not physical abuse doesn't mean it's not abuse. Valid. Valid. It could also be mental abuse. Yes. Being stuck, not being able to go outside. Things like that. Who knows if those kids were having to take care of the other kids because they were too busy doing whatever the fuck they were doing. Like there's there's so much involved in it that I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. It's gonna be interesting what comes out. It is going to be interesting. So all right. That's all I got. Great. well then, I hope you guys have a lovely, lovely week. Make sure you're like, follow, subscribe so you can see that WTF that is coming this week. We're just not telling you when. Yes. But next week we have a actually the next few weeks we have very interesting episodes coming out for you. we'll discuss it with you next week, which means you have to come back next week. Yes, next Tuesday. Period. So we will catch you guys next Tuesday with an all new episode. Stop killing each other. Lock your doors. Stop leaving your friends. All that jazz. You know what we do. Okay. Love you. Bye.