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The Michael Jordan Conspiracies (Part One) · Conspiracy! The Show

0:10
Speaker 1: Welcome to Conspiracy The Show with your hosts Adam Todd
0:16
Speaker 1: Brown and Connor mcspatn.
0:31
Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, welcome to Conspiracy the Show. I'm Adam Todd Brown.
0:36
Speaker 2: Connor mcspaden is still writing for the Comedy Central roast
0:39
Speaker 2: of Bruce Willis, so joining me as co host today.
0:42
Speaker 2: Adam Ganzer, Yeah, I'm happy to be here. We used
0:45
Speaker 2: to work together at Crack and then the purge happened.
0:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gone before that. Well I was on
0:52
Speaker 1: the early wave of it too. Actually, that's the that's
0:55
Speaker 1: the secret scandal. Remember that Radiohead video that never aired
0:57
Speaker 1: that we made. Oh that's rain God damn it. Yeah. Yeah,
1:02
Speaker 1: if you want to know our thoughts on a moon
1:03
Speaker 1: shape a moon shaped pool too late, it's over.
1:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, I forgot we Yeah, I forgot. We did that,
1:08
Speaker 2: probably because I got fired immediately after.
1:11
Speaker 1: I had other things on my mind. Yeah you didn't
1:14
Speaker 1: think the thought follow it up? Yeah, I don't blame you.
1:16
Speaker 1: So thanks for doing this. I really appreciating me.
1:19
Speaker 2: I was explaining to Adam before this that comedy the
1:23
Speaker 2: the LA comedy community does not produce a lot of
1:26
Speaker 2: sports fans. Man, So with it being sports months still
1:30
Speaker 2: on conspiracy the show. It was tough rounding up a
1:33
Speaker 2: co host, and then I thought, shit, Adam get because yeah,
1:37
Speaker 2: of course Brett had mentioned you for the sports podcast, which.
1:40
Speaker 1: We should talk about after this. I'm excited about that.
1:42
Speaker 1: Do a weekly sports podcast with us. I would love to.
1:44
Speaker 1: When Lebron got traded to the Lakers, like two weeks ago,
1:48
Speaker 1: I legitimately couldn't find a friend who cared about that.
1:52
Speaker 1: Oh wow, And it was like, what, that's what the
1:54
Speaker 1: first episode of our sports podcast was about. Well, that's
1:56
Speaker 1: what it should be. It's like it was huge. Yeah,
1:59
Speaker 1: come on, what are you talking. It's mammoth news. Nobody cared,
2:02
Speaker 1: nobody had a shit, it's big news.
2:04
Speaker 2: I think it was big news in terms of I
2:06
Speaker 2: think Lebron is a trend center in terms of how
2:10
Speaker 2: athletes deal with their relationship to teams, because it used
2:14
Speaker 2: to be a lot of oh, that player's disloyal, but
2:17
Speaker 2: like that team would trade anybody at any moment. There's
2:20
Speaker 2: no loyalty expected from the business side.
2:22
Speaker 1: Correct, And he's the one who's made that the culture. Yeah,
2:26
Speaker 1: it's not just that he was ahead of it. He
2:28
Speaker 1: created that culture, right, I would argue. Yeah, So We're
2:31
Speaker 1: excited to see what happens out here in La. Now.
2:32
Speaker 1: I know I'm a Bulls fan, but oh boy, rough
2:35
Speaker 1: times for you, Yeah, Miss Tibodeau. Yeah, not really.
2:40
Speaker 2: Like here's the thing about the Bulls in basketball, Like
2:43
Speaker 2: we're talking about Michael Jordan today. Yeah, the Bulls owe
2:46
Speaker 2: me nothing else in life. They could have losing seasons
2:49
Speaker 2: the rest of my life, and we won six championships.
2:51
Speaker 2: So right, I'm more worried about the Bears getting their
2:55
Speaker 2: shit together.
2:56
Speaker 1: I would also be worried about that. I do not
2:58
Speaker 1: Like it's the quarterbacks they've been Drafting's not gonna happen
3:01
Speaker 1: this year. Yeah I know that. No, no, no, it
3:03
Speaker 1: doesn't look good. Who's the new coach you guys hired? Oh, Naggy,
3:08
Speaker 1: I don't know. It didn't. I didn't track with this,
3:10
Speaker 1: so I'm not sure.
3:11
Speaker 2: He was an I think an offensive coordinator somewhere.
3:15
Speaker 1: I just saw it the other day. I mean, John
3:17
Speaker 1: Fox is being frozen in cry asleep as we speak. Like, yeah,
3:22
Speaker 1: I thought John Fox was gonna be a good pick.
3:25
Speaker 1: But Denver always seems to know when somebody's done. They're
3:29
Speaker 1: good at getting rid of people right when they're done. Yeah.
3:31
Speaker 1: Matt Nagy, Kansas City Chiefs offensive coordinator, Well, that was
3:35
Speaker 1: a good offense last year. Yeah, I don't know, but
3:37
Speaker 1: you know, maybe maybe not so bad. Well. See, I
3:39
Speaker 1: don't know about Trubitsky. I'm not sure about him. Yeah,
3:42
Speaker 1: that was a weird pick. That was a really weird pick.
3:45
Speaker 1: I feel like there were better quarterbacks available. I called
3:48
Speaker 1: I called schmidty when it happened, because he's also a
3:50
Speaker 1: Bears fan, and he was just very despondent.
3:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been it's been some tough years and so,
3:59
Speaker 2: but today we're talking about the good Chicago sports when
4:02
Speaker 2: when things weren't so bad, when Michael Jordan ruled the land.
4:06
Speaker 1: Well, this was the greatest era of any sports team ever, right,
4:10
Speaker 1: Like it's it's in that conversation. It has to be.
4:12
Speaker 2: I'm almost glad he left for those two seasons because
4:16
Speaker 2: I feel like they were close to I don't know
4:19
Speaker 2: that they were gonna win four in a row.
4:22
Speaker 1: Who knows. It's hard to say, because it came back
4:24
Speaker 1: in one to three, like it was. Yeah, yeah, like
4:26
Speaker 1: it was so easy for him. I don't know.
4:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the refs let him get away with
4:31
Speaker 2: a lot of fouls and traveling and things.
4:33
Speaker 1: But that's every superstar. Yeah yeah, I mean Lebron gets
4:36
Speaker 1: the same calls, Covid got the same calls.
4:38
Speaker 2: And as we'll find out today, Jordan got away with
4:40
Speaker 2: a lot of other shit.
4:41
Speaker 1: Oh god, so much so.
4:44
Speaker 2: We're actually doing two episodes about Michael Jordan conspiracies because
4:49
Speaker 2: there are so many. Yep, there's a lot, and every
4:51
Speaker 2: damn one of them is super entertaining.
4:53
Speaker 1: I love it. They're all I mean, they all hinge
4:55
Speaker 1: around a few key facts that I'm sure we're gonna
4:57
Speaker 1: we're gonna cover, right, But one of the things I
5:00
Speaker 1: haven't seen covered anywhere is at what point did we
5:02
Speaker 1: all collectively turn on Jordan because that happened? Do you
5:05
Speaker 1: have a guest? Do you have a guess for when
5:07
Speaker 1: it happened? In your opinion? For me, I would think
5:10
Speaker 1: when he came back the second time, that's yeah, it's early.
5:14
Speaker 1: I think I think people were still on the Jordan train.
5:16
Speaker 1: I think it was the Hall of Fame speech. Have
5:18
Speaker 1: you seen it? Oh? The Hall of Fame speech. He
5:20
Speaker 1: was salty, he was a monster. It was like they
5:25
Speaker 1: like it's like, hey man, here's like a celebration of
5:28
Speaker 1: your career, and all he did is list a bunch
5:30
Speaker 1: of people he beat. He's like, yeah, man, we know
5:33
Speaker 1: and Michael Hajordan. Yeah, it's like, you're Michael Jordan, what
5:36
Speaker 1: are you doing right now?
5:37
Speaker 2: And that kind of speaks to the topic today because
5:40
Speaker 2: he is psychopathically competitive.
5:44
Speaker 1: And that's maybe the first time those of us who
5:47
Speaker 1: didn't follow that team closely got a real window into that.
5:51
Speaker 1: The news was out, but like us casual fans who
5:54
Speaker 1: like just like Jordan, it was like, what the fuck's
5:56
Speaker 1: wrong with this guy? Yeah? I remember?
5:57
Speaker 2: That really split people. Yes, like some people were like
6:00
Speaker 2: that was fucking great. Those people being.
6:03
Speaker 1: Me sure, probably sure. If he was my guy, I
6:06
Speaker 1: would love him. I have to love Kobe, and I
6:08
Speaker 1: think he's also a monster, but I have to love yeah,
6:10
Speaker 1: you know, I have to.
6:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, but him him coming back to play for the Wizards,
6:14
Speaker 2: I hate.
6:14
Speaker 1: I remember, that's terrible.
6:16
Speaker 2: I don't remember if it was Alex Schmidt or Logan Trent,
6:18
Speaker 2: but they're both from Chicago and one of them posted
6:21
Speaker 2: a stock photo of Jordan and Pippen, but it was
6:26
Speaker 2: when Jordan was playing for the Wizards and Pippen was
6:29
Speaker 2: playing for Houston.
6:30
Speaker 1: That's just the worst.
6:31
Speaker 2: And their caption just said, this is the worst image ever.
6:36
Speaker 2: Is so sad.
6:37
Speaker 1: You wonder if Pippen would have been happy in some
6:40
Speaker 1: in some other situation, like cause, yeah, sometimes he feels
6:43
Speaker 1: a little sad.
6:44
Speaker 2: I did find an article when I was researching this
6:47
Speaker 2: about Pippen. He was pretty happy when Jordan retired. Why
6:50
Speaker 2: wouldn't you be? They was a maniac and he, you know,
6:53
Speaker 2: finally got to be like Pippen's one of the fifty
6:55
Speaker 2: best players. Also, like the NBA officially declared their fifty
6:59
Speaker 2: greatest players.
7:00
Speaker 1: Pippen was one of them.
7:01
Speaker 2: Interesting and so he was like, yeah, I got the
7:04
Speaker 2: I got to be the man for a while.
7:05
Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, you didn't win any championships as
7:07
Speaker 1: the man.
7:08
Speaker 2: But I hear you, good art, congratulations on being the man,
7:11
Speaker 2: a championshipless man. But I also clearly remember a shot
7:15
Speaker 2: of Scottie Pippen on the sidelines when Jordan was gone
7:18
Speaker 2: and was talking about coming back, And it was Scottie
7:21
Speaker 2: Pippen holding up a pair of Jordan's and pointing at
7:24
Speaker 2: the air Jordan logo on the bottom and just going
7:26
Speaker 2: come back.
7:27
Speaker 1: Sure, I mean, you know, losing sucks yeah, a season
7:31
Speaker 1: of that'll come.
7:31
Speaker 2: Because that second season they after Jordan left, they tanked. Yeah,
7:36
Speaker 2: well they kind of made the playoff. They made the
7:38
Speaker 2: playoffs the first season right after he left, but that
7:40
Speaker 2: next season they were not great.
7:42
Speaker 1: What was the year? Was that the year that Jordan
7:44
Speaker 1: came back as forty five, right, and he was like
7:46
Speaker 1: it was like, oh, he's not the same because it
7:48
Speaker 1: was like six months where he's.
7:49
Speaker 2: Just yeah, and they were like, well, you can't wear
7:51
Speaker 2: number twenty three and eventually he.
7:53
Speaker 1: Was like we'll see, like just give me the fucking jersey. Yeah,
7:56
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, come on, come on.
8:00
Speaker 2: So on this first episode, we're going to focus on
8:02
Speaker 2: two conspiracies. One is the idea that James Jordan, Michael
8:07
Speaker 2: Jordan's father was actually murdered over Jordan's gambling debts, which.
8:12
Speaker 1: I've heard it many times. I love this and I've
8:14
Speaker 1: heard this maybe one hundred times.
8:17
Speaker 2: And the second theory we're going to talk about is
8:20
Speaker 2: the idea that Jordan's retirement was actually a secret suspension
8:26
Speaker 2: handed down by David Sterne and they just came to
8:29
Speaker 2: an agreement that hey, we'll call it a retirement and
8:32
Speaker 2: I'll come back in a little While I definitely believe
8:35
Speaker 2: one of those, I.
8:37
Speaker 1: Am inclined to believe the suspension one. Yeah, the murder
8:41
Speaker 1: by the bob one is a little tough, but it's
8:43
Speaker 1: fun to talk about the murder. We'll get into it.
8:47
Speaker 2: I don't doubt that the two dudes who went to
8:50
Speaker 2: prison for that murder maybe didn't commit the murder.
8:53
Speaker 1: See, that's the craziest fact to me. That is the
8:56
Speaker 1: craziest fact that they never said shit about that till
9:00
Speaker 1: they're already in jail. Right. Do we always get my
9:02
Speaker 1: skipping ahead? Do you want to like cover it so
9:04
Speaker 1: it's clear now?
9:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well we should point out and we're gonna talk
9:08
Speaker 2: about this guy on the next episode a little more
9:11
Speaker 2: in detail. We kind of mentioned him last time. What
9:14
Speaker 2: is this dude's name, Mike Corzemba or Zemba. He is
9:18
Speaker 2: YouTube's premiere basketball conspiracy theory.
9:22
Speaker 1: I can't believe this is the best YouTube has to
9:24
Speaker 1: offer on that front. I really can't believe that.
9:26
Speaker 2: He's like, he does a good job laying these conspiracies out.
9:29
Speaker 1: For sure, he's good at it. Yeah, I agree with that.
9:32
Speaker 1: It's just that we've been talking NBA conspiracies for my
9:35
Speaker 1: entire life, right, Like, the draft is fixed. That's that's
9:38
Speaker 1: the thing you've heard every year, Yeah, your whole life. Yeah,
9:41
Speaker 1: we did.
9:42
Speaker 2: The first Sports Month episode or the second Sports Month
9:46
Speaker 2: episode was about the eighty five draft lottery, right, which
9:49
Speaker 2: was very clearly rigged.
9:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, the ewing one.
9:52
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, he's got the guy who puts
9:55
Speaker 2: the envelope and bangs it against the side.
9:58
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, that's not so bitious at all. Stern
10:02
Speaker 1: is such a ghoul, like they would Starn is such
10:05
Speaker 1: a goblin man.
10:06
Speaker 2: The NBA in general is a sleezy out a little bit.
10:09
Speaker 2: It's not as it's looking good these days, but like, well,
10:12
Speaker 2: yeah it was sleezy for a long time. Not having
10:15
Speaker 2: players consistently shoot themselves in the chest after retirement will
10:19
Speaker 2: make any league look better. True by comparison, that is true.
10:23
Speaker 2: Football is in a tough place right now.
10:25
Speaker 1: Football is in real danger. This anthem thing is gonna
10:28
Speaker 1: be I mean an even bigger nightmare. That is, it's
10:31
Speaker 1: gonna go worse for the NFL. It's not gonna go better.
10:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, I could see that for sure, which is a
10:36
Speaker 2: shame because football is my favorite sport.
10:38
Speaker 1: Football's I mean, I played it in high school, so
10:41
Speaker 1: I have more connection to it. Yeah, but you know
10:43
Speaker 1: I can't. You can't have this craft going on. No, yeah,
10:46
Speaker 1: not at all. We always forget. By the way, the
10:48
Speaker 1: NBA had ten years where everyone was on cocaine right
10:51
Speaker 1: in the eighties. Like that was like a regular known
10:54
Speaker 1: thing in the eighties, that they were all on cocaine.
10:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, that at one point, it was estimated somewhere between
11:00
Speaker 2: forty and seventy percent of the NBA was doing cocaine,
11:04
Speaker 2: Which it's so crazy.
11:06
Speaker 1: I shouldn't laugh because it's like, my God, get that
11:08
Speaker 1: under control.
11:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, but baseball was the same thing. Sure, Like baseball
11:12
Speaker 2: in the eighth Baseball forever has been stimulants like be it, amphetamines, cocaine.
11:17
Speaker 2: Baseball's been cheating the entire time, right, anybody that gets
11:20
Speaker 2: like high and mighty with me about baseball, it's like, dude,
11:23
Speaker 2: they used to throw brown mall like brown balls that
11:26
Speaker 2: were a little smaller than regular baseball, so you couldn't
11:28
Speaker 2: even see him from a mound like ten feet high.
11:31
Speaker 2: So don't tell me how pure this game is, Like
11:33
Speaker 2: that's my whit. Yeah, they've been cheating forever, But it
11:35
Speaker 2: seems like the NBA of late is getting a lot
11:39
Speaker 2: of accusations about being rigged, especially in the playoffs.
11:43
Speaker 1: Sure, well, yeah, super teams that's the problem.
11:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, super teams that don't get called for fouls in
11:50
Speaker 2: the third or fourth quarter, yeap is a huge one.
11:52
Speaker 2: That's that's an issue.
11:53
Speaker 1: I mean also, and then I do want to get
11:55
Speaker 1: to the topic at hand, but like, as a Laker fan,
11:57
Speaker 1: we got a big conspiracy theory right about that Chris
12:00
Speaker 1: Paul trade. We will Lakers will never let that go. No,
12:04
Speaker 1: you don't remember how this happened. See I remember this.
12:06
Speaker 1: Remember Remember Chris Paul was supposed to go to Lakers.
12:08
Speaker 1: Do you remember that? Yeah? Yeah, So that trade was
12:11
Speaker 1: announced and then this was right after the bargaining agreement
12:14
Speaker 1: where David Stern went on TV and like undermined the
12:16
Speaker 1: players with his like ghoul smile. That whole thing was happening,
12:19
Speaker 1: and so Dan Gilbert of the Cleveland Cavaliers calls up
12:23
Speaker 1: David Cern. He's like, this is why we had a
12:24
Speaker 1: bargaining agreement. So Lakers and these teams like this can't
12:27
Speaker 1: continue to get super teams. This is bullshit. You have
12:30
Speaker 1: to nullify this trade now. Chris Paul was playing for
12:33
Speaker 1: the Hornets, right. The Hornets were owned by the NBA
12:37
Speaker 1: at that time because they they couldn't get somebody to
12:39
Speaker 1: buy the team. Oh shit, So they had an NBA
12:43
Speaker 1: appointed guy who was GM, who was gonna be allowed
12:45
Speaker 1: to run the team without the influence I'm putting air
12:47
Speaker 1: quotes up right, without any influence from the NBA. Then
12:50
Speaker 1: lo and behold, the NBA canceled the trade, and that
12:54
Speaker 1: led to Lamar Odom's whole fucking life falling apart because
12:58
Speaker 1: he was part of that trade. In a series, like,
13:00
Speaker 1: his whole life fell apart. Gasol wasn't the same guy,
13:03
Speaker 1: Like it just devastated our Lakers team. We'll never forgive
13:06
Speaker 1: the NBA for it. Wow.
13:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I didn't know anything about Oh yeah, we
13:10
Speaker 2: can go in. Yeah, the NBA is crazy. There are
13:13
Speaker 2: a lot of most of the episodes. This month, we
13:16
Speaker 2: did one about baseball, about my my theory that Baseball
13:20
Speaker 2: manufactured the steroid scandal to discredit Barry Bonds as.
13:25
Speaker 1: They hated so much he must be a real dick.
13:29
Speaker 2: Oh he had a history of being just an unpleasant
13:33
Speaker 2: fuck stick to fans and media, and I just feel
13:37
Speaker 2: like they were like this motherfucker's gonna break the home
13:39
Speaker 2: run record and we have to do something.
13:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, they must just be like, God, it can't be
13:44
Speaker 1: this guy. Not this guy, like they just hated him
13:47
Speaker 1: so much. Have you ever been to the Baseball Hall
13:48
Speaker 1: of Fame? I have not.
13:49
Speaker 2: I went it was It's like going to a gift
13:53
Speaker 2: shop in the middle of nowhere, a tiny town in Canton.
13:57
Speaker 1: Right.
13:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, it's in Cooperstown, New York, deep upstate New York. Right, Okay,
14:02
Speaker 2: And the Barry Bonds exhibit is so small, it's like,
14:06
Speaker 2: not like Hank Aaron still has an entire room dedicated
14:10
Speaker 2: to him breaking the home run record. Sure, and Barry
14:13
Speaker 2: Bonds just has this like obligatory fuck you wall, like
14:17
Speaker 2: we know we have to mention both. Yeah, pretty much
14:21
Speaker 2: he's on the second stage.
14:23
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, I don't know by what metric you
14:26
Speaker 1: make these decisions, but pretty much any metric, Barry Bonds
14:29
Speaker 1: is the best baseball player that ever lived, for sure,
14:31
Speaker 1: So like, get over it, baseball, I mean, yeah, Okay,
14:35
Speaker 1: he's a dick, Babe. Ruth wasn't that good of a guy. No,
14:38
Speaker 1: Ty Cobb, Ty Cobb was a nightmare. That guy was
14:41
Speaker 1: a horrible person. He was a very bad person. He
14:43
Speaker 1: really was, so like, like, what are we protecting here?
14:46
Speaker 1: I don't understand it? Is it? You know, you don't
14:48
Speaker 1: want to, you don't want to run right to the
14:49
Speaker 1: racism and all that stuff, but you start to. It's
14:51
Speaker 1: hard not to. It's hard not to in some way
14:53
Speaker 1: when is like celebrated the guy Like yeah, anyway, all right,
14:58
Speaker 1: so let's talk about the the theory that James Jordan
15:02
Speaker 1: was murdered over Michael Jordan's gambling debts. We won't watch
15:07
Speaker 1: the Mic cor Zumba video. It's like ten minutes long.
15:10
Speaker 1: We don't have time for that. But it's not terrible.
15:12
Speaker 1: Though I wouldn't say avoided. It's interesting enough if.
15:15
Speaker 2: I would say, go out and watch at least all
15:17
Speaker 2: of the videos we mentioned on these episodes, because he
15:20
Speaker 2: does a good job and he's not the type of
15:22
Speaker 2: conspiracy theorist who believes everything he's saying, which is always good.
15:27
Speaker 1: That's kind of how this show works too. Yeah, that's
15:30
Speaker 1: what you have to be, I think. Yeah, otherwise it's
15:32
Speaker 1: it's not fun if you believe everything.
15:34
Speaker 2: Right, like I after doing this show, I believe Elvis
15:38
Speaker 2: faked his death.
15:39
Speaker 1: Oh very much.
15:40
Speaker 2: Wow, I believe Elvis was an FBI informant who fake
15:44
Speaker 2: his death.
15:45
Speaker 1: I do not believe the moon landing was faked. Sure,
15:48
Speaker 1: that seems stupid. Yeah, there's so it comes and goes
15:52
Speaker 1: like you have to be objective about this shit. God,
15:55
Speaker 1: I want to hear that Elvis story so bad we
15:57
Speaker 1: did an episode about it. I'll go back and listen
15:58
Speaker 1: to you. Yeah, I'll tell you about it after. It's cool.
16:01
Speaker 1: Pretty fucking compouse. I'm really excited about that.
16:03
Speaker 2: So we're talking about James Jordan possibly being murdered over
16:08
Speaker 2: Jordan's gambling debts, and Jordan gambled. This is an important
16:12
Speaker 2: background piece of information. Jordan gambled on everything, every thing.
16:20
Speaker 1: There's luggage would come out first is the one that
16:22
Speaker 1: gets mentioned a bunch.
16:23
Speaker 2: That's a really famous story where not only that he
16:26
Speaker 2: bets on everything, but it also demonstrates how competitive he was.
16:30
Speaker 1: What happened.
16:31
Speaker 2: He was at an airport, the bulls were waiting for
16:34
Speaker 2: their luggage and he bet, I think nine different teammates
16:38
Speaker 2: one hundred dollars that his bag would come out first.
16:40
Speaker 2: And he was like, because I'm the star, of course,
16:42
Speaker 2: my bag's going to come out first, and these players
16:45
Speaker 2: were like, what, yeah, we'll.
16:47
Speaker 1: Take that, but an asshole situation to set up, but
16:49
Speaker 1: yees way yeah, and he ends up winning, which everyone's
16:54
Speaker 1: mind is blown at the time, and then later we
16:57
Speaker 1: find out he bribed an airport employee.
17:00
Speaker 2: To put his bag on the carousel first, just so
17:04
Speaker 2: he would win that bet for.
17:05
Speaker 1: Nine hundred dollars. Like in other stories we're going to
17:08
Speaker 1: talk about at some point on this podcast and maybe
17:10
Speaker 1: the next one, like he throws away twenty thousand dollars
17:13
Speaker 1: just in spite a person he he like, arranged this
17:17
Speaker 1: whole fucking thing for nine hundred dollars. What is wrong
17:20
Speaker 1: with you? One hundred dollars. That's not a lot of
17:22
Speaker 1: money to me, and I'm unemployed, you know what I mean? Yeah,
17:25
Speaker 1: what a dick? Right?
17:27
Speaker 2: I remember, and it seems like he was kind of
17:29
Speaker 2: tight with money to some extent, like he would gamble
17:33
Speaker 2: a lot. But I remember a story about I guess
17:37
Speaker 2: the Bulls did like a gift exchange every year and
17:40
Speaker 2: you would draw names, and I forget who the player
17:43
Speaker 2: was that got Jordan, Like Jordan picked his name, okay,
17:47
Speaker 2: and this player was like, man, I'm getting a land
17:50
Speaker 2: Rover for Christmas, and Jordan got him like a portable
17:54
Speaker 2: CD player. Oh no, like the deepest, same, shittiest gift.
18:00
Speaker 1: At least be Peyton Manning. If you're going to be
18:02
Speaker 1: a piece of shit, you know what I mean, like
18:04
Speaker 1: like when the gift giving comes, you know, pour out
18:06
Speaker 1: the heart man. Yeah, Nope, didn't do it, not for Jordan.
18:10
Speaker 1: I don't think he was tight on his money because
18:11
Speaker 1: he owns it. He owns a basketball team. Now, there's
18:13
Speaker 1: no way he was running low on money. I think
18:15
Speaker 1: I think he doesn't pay up to these people because.
18:18
Speaker 2: No, I'm not like tight with his money like he was,
18:20
Speaker 2: like he holds onto it. Yeah, I got you, I
18:22
Speaker 2: got you. And yeah, there was all speaking of him
18:25
Speaker 2: not paying people. There was a book called Michael and
18:27
Speaker 2: Me that came out in the nineties, and we'll talk
18:31
Speaker 2: a little more about the timing of that book, which
18:33
Speaker 2: plays into this a lot, okay, But it was written
18:35
Speaker 2: by a guy named Richard Aquinas, and he claimed at
18:38
Speaker 2: one point that Jordan owed him nine hundred and two
18:41
Speaker 2: thousand dollars but did not want to pay him.
18:45
Speaker 1: And it was it was golf that they lost. He
18:47
Speaker 1: lost this money. Yeah, how the fuck much money. How
18:50
Speaker 1: much golf did you play? Well? That was okay. So
18:52
Speaker 1: again in this that Charles Barkley story we're going to
18:55
Speaker 1: talk about later, the craziest fact about it is they
18:58
Speaker 1: played forty eight holes of gold. Yeah, that's so much,
19:01
Speaker 1: so much golf. That's like twenty hours of golf. Man,
19:04
Speaker 1: it's so much. Anyway, nine hundred thousand dollars worth of
19:07
Speaker 1: golf is even if it's there's no way they're betting
19:10
Speaker 1: one hundred thousand a hole, right, There's no way they're
19:12
Speaker 1: doing that. I would hope not. I mean, so at
19:14
Speaker 1: least there're been there. It's fifty thousand a hole, right,
19:16
Speaker 1: because eighteen holes, Yeah, I could see that. There's no way,
19:19
Speaker 1: you know, it's like a thousand a hole or some
19:21
Speaker 1: crazy it's you know, it's like, yeah, it has like
19:23
Speaker 1: bill years or something. Yeah, you know.
19:25
Speaker 2: And they finally he like chases Jordan by phone for years,
19:30
Speaker 2: and they finally agree on a three hundred thousand dollars
19:33
Speaker 2: settlement that Jordan asks to pay an installments, not because
19:38
Speaker 2: he's broke, but because his wife will notice if three
19:41
Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars goes missing out of their account all
19:44
Speaker 2: at once, what.
19:45
Speaker 1: A piece of shit. It's just that's just like, it's like, dude,
19:50
Speaker 1: just pay the money, you fucking asshole. Just admit to
19:52
Speaker 1: your wife that you're gambling, and imagine you'd go to
19:55
Speaker 1: these lengths to hide it from your wife. And then
19:57
Speaker 1: the dude writes a book. Well not yes, not only that,
20:01
Speaker 1: there's no way his wife doesn't know. Like he thinks
20:04
Speaker 1: his wife is a lot stupider than she is. There's
20:06
Speaker 1: no way she's not. Like you think he's gump gambling. No,
20:09
Speaker 1: not my Michael, No, no gambler. He's a charity, he said,
20:12
Speaker 1: gentle as a fun at home. No chance, no chance.
20:16
Speaker 1: That's true.
20:17
Speaker 2: And another thing that points to his gambling issues, especially
20:22
Speaker 2: at the time. Yeah, the nineteen ninety three Eastern Conference finals.
20:25
Speaker 2: I remember this, yeah, because I remember hearing it and
20:28
Speaker 2: being like, we're still gonna fucking win.
20:30
Speaker 1: And we did.
20:32
Speaker 2: But he was spotted in Atlantic City at a casino
20:36
Speaker 2: at two thirty in the morning the same day he
20:39
Speaker 2: had a game in New York, which is two hours away.
20:42
Speaker 2: So at best he's getting back to New York around
20:45
Speaker 2: six am.
20:46
Speaker 1: That's twelve hours from that game, right, Yeah, I mean
20:48
Speaker 1: I get that. It's a story. I get that he
20:50
Speaker 1: shouldn't be doing it, but at the.
20:52
Speaker 2: Same time he could sleep it off. Of course he can. Yeah,
20:54
Speaker 2: that's why he's doing it. He knows, yeah, you know.
20:57
Speaker 1: But it's still like that does show a real lack
21:00
Speaker 1: of judgment.
21:01
Speaker 2: It's just not a thing the league is gonna want
21:03
Speaker 2: to see anyone doing no, especially not its biggest star.
21:08
Speaker 1: That would probably be a big story today if it
21:11
Speaker 1: had if Kevin Durant was doing it today. Oh yeah,
21:14
Speaker 1: it would be a big story, Yeah, for sure, you know.
21:17
Speaker 2: And so all of this stuff kind of happened around
21:20
Speaker 2: the same time. There was also they found a fifty
21:24
Speaker 2: seven thousand dollars check that Jordan had written to a
21:27
Speaker 2: drug mule named Slim Booler, and they found.
21:31
Speaker 1: That after the Slim Bueler great great name. Yeah, you know,
21:36
Speaker 1: you're getting into and you're hanging out with a guy
21:38
Speaker 1: named Slim And that's that's kind of the point of
21:40
Speaker 1: this my Corzamba video, is that not only was Jordan gambling,
21:44
Speaker 1: he was hanging out with some really unsavory people in
21:47
Speaker 1: this Slim Booler is an example of that.
21:50
Speaker 2: The Feds end up raiding his house at one point,
21:53
Speaker 2: yep and find this fifty seven thousand dollars check that
21:57
Speaker 2: Jordan had written him, and at first Jordan said it
21:59
Speaker 2: was a low as if that's better. Oh, I just
22:03
Speaker 2: loaned this drug dealer fifty seven thousand dollars, that's all.
22:06
Speaker 1: I mean. Echoes of Trump here, yeah, like like bigtime
22:08
Speaker 1: echoes or Trump. Also, I just have to say just
22:11
Speaker 1: side note, Korzen. But the guy whose video this is
22:14
Speaker 1: said the word king drug kingpin. He said that phrase
22:17
Speaker 1: so many times. Yes, I haven't heard that phrase said
22:20
Speaker 1: more since like fucking Dick Tracy.
22:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just drug kingpin and drugs drug kingpin.
22:26
Speaker 1: He just kept saying it.
22:29
Speaker 2: And yeah, Jordan, finally he was called to testify in
22:32
Speaker 2: this guy's trial, and that's when he had to admit
22:36
Speaker 2: that the check was for gambling debts.
22:38
Speaker 1: Because he was under oath, right, so he tried to
22:40
Speaker 1: lie his way out of that, and then finally the
22:42
Speaker 1: court cut up to him. Yeah, yeah, that's probably a
22:44
Speaker 1: pretty embarrassing thing to admit to in court. Yeah, I
22:47
Speaker 1: wonder how the wife felt about that, right, at what
22:50
Speaker 1: point is his wife like you're a gambler, Like come on,
22:53
Speaker 1: you know. There was also Eddie Dao who was a
22:55
Speaker 1: bail bondsman who was murdered. Police found three checks from
23:00
Speaker 1: Jordan and Dwa's briefcase for a total of one hundred
23:03
Speaker 1: and eight thousand dollars, also for gambling losses. Yeah, I mean, okay,
23:08
Speaker 1: so just just said out how much money you think
23:10
Speaker 1: Jordan's making right now in this era a year? Sixty
23:13
Speaker 1: million at least something like that, got the endorsement deal,
23:17
Speaker 1: That's what I mean. But they were way less back then. Yeah,
23:19
Speaker 1: probably not a lot less because he was Michael Jordan
23:21
Speaker 1: and the.
23:22
Speaker 2: Whole world yeah around him, I'd say fifty sixty million easy,
23:25
Speaker 2: that seems a year, Yeah, it seems right.
23:27
Speaker 1: So this is still chump change to him, right, Like
23:30
Speaker 1: all this money that's like a big problem is like okay,
23:33
Speaker 1: so but he'd still pay it off.
23:35
Speaker 2: But they're pretty easily, one would think. But for some
23:38
Speaker 2: reason he doesn't pay it off.
23:40
Speaker 1: That because he's a prettyqickly Yeah, because he I mean,
23:42
Speaker 1: I think it's all like I can get away with this.
23:44
Speaker 1: I think that's the kind of guy he is, Like
23:46
Speaker 1: I can fucking get away with this somehow. Yeah, I'll win,
23:49
Speaker 1: I'll win my way out of this problem, right.
23:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so that is kind of the background that
23:56
Speaker 2: leads up to what happens to James Jordan on July
24:01
Speaker 2: twenty third, nineteen ninety three. He pulled over on the
24:03
Speaker 2: side of a highway to take a nap, which, come on, dude,
24:08
Speaker 2: get a hotel.
24:08
Speaker 1: James Jordan. Well, maybe he was unable to drive. Well,
24:12
Speaker 1: maybe he's being a responsible motor you know, could be.
24:16
Speaker 1: I doubt that, but but yeah, probably not, could be
24:18
Speaker 1: sure of. Fair enough, he's like, my son has lost
24:21
Speaker 1: all this gambling money. I can't afford a motel right now,
24:24
Speaker 1: just real quick. How did they figure that out? How
24:26
Speaker 1: do they figure out he was taking a nap since
24:28
Speaker 1: the next time we all saw him he was dead? Yeah,
24:30
Speaker 1: that I don't know.
24:32
Speaker 2: I guess maybe the people who killed him said they
24:34
Speaker 2: walked up and just saw him sleeping.
24:36
Speaker 1: Maybe, Well that leads to that's a really important detail
24:40
Speaker 1: for later in this conversation, right, I'm just gonna come
24:42
Speaker 1: back to it later. Yeah.
24:43
Speaker 2: So, according to the official account, Daniel Green and Larry
24:48
Speaker 2: Demery spot the car and decide to rob James Jordan.
24:52
Speaker 2: They end up killing him, dumping his body, and they're
24:55
Speaker 2: finally caught the same way so many early nineties, criminals
24:59
Speaker 2: were caught on forensic files by making a cell phone call.
25:03
Speaker 1: It's like, what like that from.
25:06
Speaker 2: A car phone a car from a car phone from
25:08
Speaker 2: James Jordan's car, Like everyone's so intrigued by car phones
25:12
Speaker 2: in the nineties.
25:12
Speaker 1: It's it's like a fucking bear to a honeypot. Yeah,
25:15
Speaker 1: they just can't avoid it, like I gotta and it was.
25:18
Speaker 2: It was before that time I brought up forensic files
25:21
Speaker 2: because there's so many episodes of that where they're they're
25:24
Speaker 2: dragging it out, like this investigation took a while, and
25:27
Speaker 2: then at some point they're just like and after three
25:30
Speaker 2: days we subpoened phone records and that was it.
25:32
Speaker 1: Like this guy had no idea he should have turned
25:34
Speaker 1: his phone off. He was literally at the place where
25:37
Speaker 1: the murder happened when it.
25:38
Speaker 2: Happened, confessing it on a phone call. It's like, this
25:41
Speaker 2: could have been a five minute episode. Man, this could
25:45
Speaker 2: have been real crime as cell phone files and that. Yeah,
25:49
Speaker 2: that caught a lot of people back then, and that's
25:51
Speaker 2: how these two were caught. But then a few years later,
25:54
Speaker 2: Green changes his story says, I didn't kill him. It's
25:58
Speaker 2: cut and dry. It's it's not like I was even
26:01
Speaker 2: there when he was right. That's that's the sentence that
26:04
Speaker 2: is creepy about. Right, what do you mean you weren't
26:07
Speaker 2: there when he was killed?
26:08
Speaker 1: Right? What does that mean he was already dead when
26:10
Speaker 1: you found him. That's what he's implying, Right, that is
26:13
Speaker 1: what he's implying. He said, I feel like both of
26:15
Speaker 1: us are pawns in a game. Basically, Okay, I think
26:18
Speaker 1: his his claim is that these two were tasked with
26:24
Speaker 1: getting rid of the body and getting rid of the car,
26:27
Speaker 1: and whoever asked them to do that basically framed them
26:31
Speaker 1: for murder, probably by saying, Hey, call me from his
26:34
Speaker 1: car phone when you're done, to let me know you
26:36
Speaker 1: got all this. That would be that would be very clever. Indeed, Yeah,
26:40
Speaker 1: it is weird that these two guys decided to rob
26:43
Speaker 1: a car. I'm putting that in air quotes again because
26:46
Speaker 1: that's a strange decision. It is for a robbery, and
26:50
Speaker 1: they went right to murdering because robbery and murder are
26:53
Speaker 1: very different things.
26:54
Speaker 2: And where were they, like, were they road? Were they
26:58
Speaker 2: walking on the highway?
26:59
Speaker 1: That doesn't make sense.
27:01
Speaker 2: No, but if you're driving, you're not automatically for robbery.
27:06
Speaker 2: Opportunities pull over and stop just because the cars stopped.
27:09
Speaker 1: It's weird. That doesn't add up. It doesn't add up.
27:11
Speaker 1: And again, this is the point where I bring up
27:14
Speaker 1: the fact that how do we know he was taking
27:15
Speaker 1: a nap? Yeah? Is that? Is that in some way
27:18
Speaker 1: like a euphemism for he was already unconscious? You know
27:22
Speaker 1: what I mean? Like? What? Right? I mean? You know,
27:24
Speaker 1: I just think that's curious.
27:26
Speaker 2: And so they have his lawyers have called for a
27:29
Speaker 2: retrial just this year. They filed like a two hundred
27:32
Speaker 2: and five page document and one of the things that
27:37
Speaker 2: they're pointing to is the crime lab that and there's
27:41
Speaker 2: been so many instances of this in recent years. The
27:45
Speaker 2: crime lab that tested the evidence in this case has
27:49
Speaker 2: since come out and admitted that in at least one
27:52
Speaker 2: hundred and ninety different cases, they either falsified evidence or
27:56
Speaker 2: just gave like shitty evidence to help the police seal
28:01
Speaker 2: their case.
28:02
Speaker 1: It sounds like some LA confidential shit over there. Yeah.
28:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, And this is one of the cases where they
28:08
Speaker 2: admit that they weren't exactly honest about the physical evidence.
28:12
Speaker 1: Well, I think they're alleging that, right, I don't think
28:15
Speaker 1: that the I don't think that the lab has said
28:18
Speaker 1: we fucked up the evidence in this case. The lab
28:21
Speaker 1: knows how many cases they fucked up? Is that what
28:24
Speaker 1: the detail was? Okay? Because the thing I was confused
28:26
Speaker 1: about here is like, is this just an opportunism thing
28:28
Speaker 1: where it's like, oh, this lab that this happened at
28:32
Speaker 1: is suspect now because of the way they did shit,
28:35
Speaker 1: or is it they actually fucked up this case? Yeah?
28:37
Speaker 1: I couldn't.
28:38
Speaker 2: It seemed like they were implying that it was this case, okay,
28:42
Speaker 2: and I'll accept that. If that's true, he should definitely
28:45
Speaker 2: get a retrial.
28:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would think.
28:48
Speaker 2: But if it's just well, maybe they falsified evidence, then it's.
28:51
Speaker 1: Not That's what I would want to know that before
28:54
Speaker 1: I had a really passionate take on it.
28:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I mean, it seems like a weird thing,
29:00
Speaker 2: but it's there's no way this is probably ever going
29:03
Speaker 2: to be proven. And I think these two are just
29:05
Speaker 2: going to be in prison the rest of their lives.
29:09
Speaker 1: If they if they're if what they said is true
29:12
Speaker 1: that they are, if what we're implying about them is true,
29:15
Speaker 1: that they were set up by let's call the mob.
29:18
Speaker 1: I guess I don't know where we got the mob for. Yeah.
29:19
Speaker 2: He also says the mafia in this video, and it's like,
29:22
Speaker 2: I don't think the mafia was in Charlotte at the time.
29:25
Speaker 1: How did we get to the mafia? You know what
29:27
Speaker 1: I mean? Like from a shady drug kingpin to the mafia.
29:30
Speaker 1: I guess. Anyway, let's say that some crime overlord is
29:33
Speaker 1: in fact set them up, they should be happy there
29:36
Speaker 1: in jail then, I mean, because like getting free isn't
29:39
Speaker 1: going to be the solution. No, You're gonna get murdered. Yeah,
29:42
Speaker 1: I mean, if he can kill Michael Jordan's father, nothing
29:45
Speaker 1: happens to him or her. I guess, could be a
29:47
Speaker 1: female overlord. Let's say Michael Jordan's father, that's the other
29:53
Speaker 1: that's the next conspiracy, the next conspiracy. Weird. No, but
29:56
Speaker 1: like you know, you don't want to you don't want
29:58
Speaker 1: to spring free if if you're the the fall guy, right, yeah,
30:01
Speaker 1: probably not. You want to live. That's not gonna be
30:03
Speaker 1: the safest thing.
30:05
Speaker 2: He's like that Paul Manifort situation, Like what's that guy
30:08
Speaker 2: do flip on Trump and then get murdered by Russia.
30:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the real problem is Yeah, I think so, Yeah,
30:14
Speaker 1: he's gonna get some radioactive tea or some shit. What
30:17
Speaker 1: a cool way to die. I mean, what if it
30:19
Speaker 1: just gives you powers. You hate admiring anything these Russians
30:23
Speaker 1: are fucking doing, but their use of chemicals to kill
30:26
Speaker 1: people right now is like some real spy shit poop.
30:29
Speaker 1: It's very admirable.
30:30
Speaker 2: Putin is a fascinating figure just in general. One of
30:35
Speaker 2: my favorite things about him is he is aggressively late
30:40
Speaker 2: to meetings with everybody, and they say it's just like
30:45
Speaker 2: they assume it's like a power thing, where he's like, well,
30:48
Speaker 2: I'm Putin, so you Queen of England are gonna wait
30:51
Speaker 2: a few hours for me to show up?
30:53
Speaker 1: He made those hope wait for two hours?
30:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, well yeah, I see that. Two hours late to
30:59
Speaker 2: meet pope. That's fine.
31:01
Speaker 1: I think it's more that's more of a tone thing, right, yeah,
31:04
Speaker 1: you know, like I don't want your I don't want
31:05
Speaker 1: what you're pedaling here. Yeah, you know, pedaling.
31:09
Speaker 2: Ah wait, there's the airhorn that deserved that was worth.
31:21
Speaker 1: Waiting for it. I'm glad we did that. Uh yeah,
31:24
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, in either case, it's strange that
31:27
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan, the vindictive man that he is has never
31:31
Speaker 1: done much about this, right, that's also an unusual omission. Yeah,
31:37
Speaker 1: he he has not spoken on it. Wouldn't you think
31:39
Speaker 1: he'd want somebody's balls and of ice somewhere like somebody
31:43
Speaker 1: crucified in public, unless unless he knows why, unless he
31:47
Speaker 1: knows there was more to this, right, and doesn't want
31:50
Speaker 1: it to come out that his father got murdered over
31:52
Speaker 1: his gambling debts. I mean, maybe a tragedy of this
31:55
Speaker 1: magnitude is bad enough that even somebody like Michael Jordan's like,
31:58
Speaker 1: I just don't want to deal with it, you know, Yeah,
32:01
Speaker 1: because that's that's the legitimate thing that people were peddling
32:04
Speaker 1: around with. This is like his father's death is what
32:06
Speaker 1: actually made him retire from basketball.
32:07
Speaker 2: Because which is what I assumed it happened. It makes sense,
32:11
Speaker 2: like I figured, yeah, that's that's why he's quitting.
32:14
Speaker 1: That makes sense. It didn't explain him playing for the
32:16
Speaker 1: White Sox. No, nothing can explain that. Also, what's with
32:20
Speaker 1: every athlete when they leave the sport they do they
32:23
Speaker 1: think I'll give baseball a shot. Why does everybody think
32:25
Speaker 1: it's so easy to play baseball? Yeah? And it's not.
32:28
Speaker 2: And he was already thirty, which in baseball years ancient,
32:32
Speaker 2: even though players play forever, if you're not major league
32:35
Speaker 2: level by thirty, they're like, nah, you're.
32:37
Speaker 1: Not gonna make it. It's so hard to get a
32:39
Speaker 1: major league contract for these guys who come out of
32:42
Speaker 1: high school, and they'd right till they're twenty eight before
32:44
Speaker 1: they finally make the bigs. That's ten years of making
32:47
Speaker 1: thirty grand a year, travel around your jeep or whatever.
32:49
Speaker 1: Ough it would be the fucking word. It's a really
32:51
Speaker 1: rough life. Man. I loved playing baseball as a kid,
32:54
Speaker 1: but it's fun. Yeah, But like I don't know why Jordan,
32:57
Speaker 1: just because he's great a basketball things, suddenly I'm gonna
32:59
Speaker 1: able to hit home runs. That's a different skills. He
33:01
Speaker 1: could not No, he could not bet at two O
33:03
Speaker 1: two Was that the number? Something like that in the
33:05
Speaker 1: minor league. Yeah.
33:08
Speaker 2: So the the end of this video, though, I feel
33:11
Speaker 2: like Mike gets a little exuberant in shooting.
33:15
Speaker 1: This theory down.
33:16
Speaker 2: Definitely, probably because he doesn't want to potentially be murdered, or.
33:21
Speaker 1: Because he doesn't want to be the guy who really
33:23
Speaker 1: hung his hat on something this outlandish unless he was
33:26
Speaker 1: certain and it's it's actually he kept using that word
33:30
Speaker 1: like outlandish or like this was. But it's not that
33:34
Speaker 1: crazy to think that a guy with massive gambling debts
33:39
Speaker 1: might have gotten his father killed over that.
33:42
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not the crazy. It wouldn't be the
33:43
Speaker 2: craziest motive. It's a murder.
33:45
Speaker 1: It's not like it hasn't happened in history, right, it
33:48
Speaker 1: would be crazy for it to happen to this man
33:51
Speaker 1: in this time. Yeah, like probably the most famous man
33:54
Speaker 1: in the world except for the president. Yeah, Michael Jordan. Yeah,
33:58
Speaker 1: maybe Bill time was more present, more famous maybe, right, Yeah,
34:02
Speaker 1: than Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan was fucking huge. Jordan's like
34:05
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson, Like like that's the level we're talking about.
34:08
Speaker 1: For his father to die so suspiciously or or I
34:12
Speaker 1: guess the other for for a mafia member to take
34:14
Speaker 1: him out by this, you know, fucking strange cloak and
34:17
Speaker 1: dagger shit is pretty ballsy. And it would also like
34:22
Speaker 1: Jordan's really not going to pay you then? Fuck no,
34:25
Speaker 1: already you know they already already collected on the debt. Man,
34:28
Speaker 1: he killed his dad, He's not going to fucking pay
34:30
Speaker 1: you after that. That's worth nine hundred grand at least. Yeah,
34:33
Speaker 1: you know, like, he's not paying the debt after that,
34:35
Speaker 1: why would he so this? I don't I don't know
34:38
Speaker 1: about this. I think probably not. I still think it's
34:42
Speaker 1: I still think there's something amiss about it in that
34:46
Speaker 1: I think the move from robbery to murder by those
34:48
Speaker 1: two guys, yeah, is really weird.
34:50
Speaker 2: I don't discount that these two might not be complete,
34:54
Speaker 2: might be somewhat innocent, well not innocent, I mean, they
34:58
Speaker 2: disposed of the body in the car, But I don't
35:00
Speaker 2: doubt that someone might have pinned this murder on them.
35:02
Speaker 2: I just don't know, because James Jordan wasn't the most
35:07
Speaker 2: savory character.
35:08
Speaker 1: Oh was he a shady dude? Yeah he was.
35:10
Speaker 2: He was a shady dude who had some shady dealings.
35:13
Speaker 2: I think he was actually I think he was facing
35:17
Speaker 2: like charges for something at this time also or under
35:21
Speaker 2: investigation for like some weird business dealings. So it might
35:25
Speaker 2: have been a weird murder that someone got away with.
35:28
Speaker 2: But I don't know that it was necessarily tied to
35:31
Speaker 2: Jordan's gambling.
35:33
Speaker 1: I mean, I think we're just trying to make a
35:34
Speaker 1: connection because it dovetail so nicely with his retirement.
35:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, because it seems like these people that
35:41
Speaker 2: he was Jordan was betting with, they were obviously getting
35:44
Speaker 2: close enough to Jordan to take hand written checks and things.
35:47
Speaker 1: They should have just killed him. I don't know if
35:50
Speaker 1: Slim the the drug mule had just shown murdering Michael
35:56
Speaker 1: Jackson Jordan. Excuse me, I don't know about that. So
36:00
Speaker 1: that's one of the theories.
36:02
Speaker 2: Now, the theory I do believe, yeah, yeah, yeah, is
36:05
Speaker 2: the theory that Jordan's retirement was actually a secret suspension
36:10
Speaker 2: that David Stern handed down over Jordan's gambling debts. Either
36:15
Speaker 2: Stern suspended him or Jordan was just like, let me
36:18
Speaker 2: just quit for a couple of years, yeah, and then
36:21
Speaker 2: we'll talk about it later and I'll maybe come back.
36:23
Speaker 1: This feels like exactly the kind of thing David Stern
36:26
Speaker 1: would do, right, like tone with yeah, he is after
36:30
Speaker 1: the Draft Lottery episode. I'm I'm on board with almost
36:35
Speaker 1: every NBA conspiracy theory just watching him talk. Yeah, apparently
36:39
Speaker 1: you'll just enjoy this detail. So a friend of mine
36:42
Speaker 1: apparently like served him in some like party back when
36:45
Speaker 1: he was commissioner, and apparently he's like obsessed with pigs
36:48
Speaker 1: in a blanket, Like he thinks it's not a party
36:51
Speaker 1: if there's not pigs in a blanket, and he gets
36:53
Speaker 1: really upset if they're delayed. Wow. Yeah, he's like David
36:56
Speaker 1: Stern's just obsessed with pigs in a blanket is a
36:59
Speaker 1: fact I heard via the grapevine from my friends. That's
37:02
Speaker 1: crazy and they're not that good. No, that's like, that's
37:06
Speaker 1: like casse roles. It's like caring about something like that.
37:09
Speaker 2: It's like, it's like, don't fancy up a hot dog
37:11
Speaker 2: with puff pastry.
37:13
Speaker 1: Get the fuck out of here. It's just caring about
37:15
Speaker 1: an old way of doing food. Yeah, it's like being
37:17
Speaker 1: a meat loaf lover. I don't see that, man, it's
37:21
Speaker 1: just from a different time. I do like meat loaf though.
37:23
Speaker 1: Fair enough, fair enough.
37:26
Speaker 2: So at either point in this story where we're at
37:28
Speaker 2: the point where Jordan's dad is.
37:30
Speaker 1: Murdered, yes he died. There's no way he didn't get murdered, right.
37:34
Speaker 1: I don't want to be like totally stupid about this,
37:35
Speaker 1: but no, yeah he was. He was definitely murdered.
37:37
Speaker 2: Okay, fair enough, And so at the time he was murdered,
37:41
Speaker 2: all of this gambling stuff that we've just mentioned was
37:45
Speaker 2: starting to come out. Right, Like, this was a pre
37:48
Speaker 2: social media era where athletes and actors could just be
37:54
Speaker 2: horrifying people behind the scenes and we would have no
37:58
Speaker 2: fucking clue.
38:00
Speaker 1: They really protected Michael Jordan. He's one of the most
38:03
Speaker 1: protected stars I can think of.
38:06
Speaker 2: And that's kind of the argument here that he was
38:09
Speaker 2: protected from not just him though the NBA would have
38:13
Speaker 2: taken a hit, oh, absolutely suspended.
38:16
Speaker 1: The NBA was growing by leaps and bounds during this
38:18
Speaker 1: era because of Jordan. Yeah, I mean we I think
38:21
Speaker 1: we started expansion teams around this time, or like maybe
38:24
Speaker 1: a few years later.
38:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, it would have been like early nineties. I remember,
38:28
Speaker 2: like the Timberwolves and when was in all those It
38:31
Speaker 2: was late eighties, early nineties.
38:32
Speaker 1: Okay, so yeah, around this time, and you know, capitalizing
38:35
Speaker 1: on it's the fame of Jordan. He's one. You know,
38:39
Speaker 1: even John Magic Johnson and Larry Bird didn't expand the
38:42
Speaker 1: league to that degree. Yeah.
38:44
Speaker 2: We talked about that on the NBA Draft episode. Yeah,
38:48
Speaker 2: the like Bird in Magic Johnson. That mattered to Lakers
38:53
Speaker 2: and Celtics, sure, but to just the general public people
38:57
Speaker 2: didn't so much give a shit. It was when Jordan
39:01
Speaker 2: came out, like where people forget like long shorts in
39:04
Speaker 2: the NBA Jordan, everyone was wearing nuthuggers before that, and
39:09
Speaker 2: he refused shoe contract shoes the tongue out, which I
39:15
Speaker 2: was like, you're going to cut your tongue.
39:16
Speaker 1: I know, someday it's really weed. He never did. That
39:19
Speaker 1: thing just came out a foot out of his head
39:21
Speaker 1: and everyone was afraid somehow.
39:24
Speaker 2: And so at this point, Jordan had won three championships
39:29
Speaker 2: in a row, and now all of this gambling stuff
39:32
Speaker 2: starts coming out. We had no idea as a fan base,
39:36
Speaker 2: like there were rumors about it.
39:38
Speaker 1: When you say come it came out, you mean that
39:40
Speaker 1: it was excepting, like you could find it if you
39:42
Speaker 1: were looking for it. It wasn't the nine story, It
39:45
Speaker 1: wasn't the main story national news.
39:47
Speaker 2: It was being reported on. And then the book the
39:50
Speaker 2: book came out around that time also, and so the
39:54
Speaker 2: NBA launches an investigation into Jordan's gambling, and and that
40:01
Speaker 2: part everyone like the world was told and we were like, oh,
40:06
Speaker 2: what's gonna happen next? But then Jordan's dad gets murdered
40:10
Speaker 2: and four months later he retires. Two days after he
40:14
Speaker 2: announces his retirement, the NBA drops their investigation, but not
40:19
Speaker 2: only drops. Their investigation says they found no signs of wrongdoing, which.
40:26
Speaker 1: That's some Ray Rice shit, is what that is? Yeah,
40:28
Speaker 1: you know, like for the that reference doesn't scan when
40:30
Speaker 1: ray Rice beat his girlfriend, which really launched the domestic
40:34
Speaker 1: violence conversation that currently having about the NFL. The first
40:39
Speaker 1: suspension he got was two games, and people lost their
40:42
Speaker 1: fucking mind because it was like, that is not enough
40:44
Speaker 1: for the video footage we have of this, and then
40:47
Speaker 1: they basically suspended him for the year and that was
40:49
Speaker 1: the end of his career. I would say that this
40:52
Speaker 1: investigation into Jordan's gambling is the equivalent of the two
40:54
Speaker 1: game suspension for ray Ris, right, It's like a slap
40:57
Speaker 1: on the wrist, you know, yeah.
40:58
Speaker 2: Because you have to There is in all of the
41:02
Speaker 2: details of Jordan's gambling, there is someone who reported overhearing
41:07
Speaker 2: a conversation where the conversation made it seem like Jordan
41:11
Speaker 2: was betting on games, and.
41:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, that he overheard the lines plus seven is the
41:17
Speaker 1: sentence he heard, right, And the thing about basketball like
41:22
Speaker 1: it goes like football.
41:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess football and basketball happened at the same time.
41:29
Speaker 2: When does basketball season end? It ends in June and
41:33
Speaker 2: it starts in like November. It overlaps, yeah, overseason, so
41:37
Speaker 2: he could have been talking about football also. I mean,
41:41
Speaker 2: depending on what time of year.
41:43
Speaker 1: We could have been talking about baseball. If it was
41:45
Speaker 1: in the middle of the playoffs, would there be a
41:48
Speaker 1: plus seven in a baseball game, It could be. That
41:51
Speaker 1: is wild, that would be you know, the Cincinnati Reds
41:55
Speaker 1: are playing the twenty four Yankees. But sure, yeah, you know.
41:58
Speaker 2: But that's a big deal, especially if he was betting
42:01
Speaker 2: on NBA games. That's a huge deal. That's what got
42:03
Speaker 2: Pete Rose kicked out of baseball for the same thing.
42:07
Speaker 2: And there's another great conspiracy that Pete Rose had a
42:10
Speaker 2: secret deal in place with Bart Giamatti, that Bart Giamatti
42:15
Speaker 2: was going to kick him out, but then a few
42:17
Speaker 2: years later let him back in.
42:19
Speaker 1: And then not long.
42:20
Speaker 2: After Pete Rose got kicked off, Bart Giamotty died somehow,
42:24
Speaker 2: Pete Rose is like, I can forget that deal.
42:26
Speaker 1: I'm never gonna be back in base Well, see, I
42:29
Speaker 1: mean there is a tangent, but I'm gonna take it.
42:31
Speaker 1: Pete Rose could have been back in baseball if he
42:33
Speaker 1: was if he just wasn't an asshole. Yeah, again. And
42:36
Speaker 1: I feel like Jordan could put all this shit to
42:38
Speaker 1: sleep if he just wasn't an asshole, right, Like, you know,
42:41
Speaker 1: you don't hear anybody talking about David Robinson, you know, right,
42:45
Speaker 1: Like that guy's a nice guy. Yeah, like nobody says
42:47
Speaker 1: shit about him. Yeah, Pete Rose.
42:49
Speaker 2: And I think Pete Rose, all he's ever had to
42:51
Speaker 2: do was admit that he bet on games, and I
42:53
Speaker 2: think he's never never wanted.
42:55
Speaker 1: To admit that he's not gonna do it.
42:56
Speaker 2: And Pete Rose, Holy shit, did you see the I
42:59
Speaker 2: think it was a VH one movie about Pete Rose. No,
43:03
Speaker 2: but I said, God, I feel like it was VH one,
43:06
Speaker 2: But I could be wrong about that. But at one
43:09
Speaker 2: point in his career or after his career, Pete Rose
43:13
Speaker 2: would sell people the bat that he broke the all
43:16
Speaker 2: time hit road with. And at one point someone came
43:21
Speaker 2: to his agent with one of these bats and his
43:23
Speaker 2: agent was like, look, he has sold hundreds of those bats.
43:27
Speaker 2: He will sell a bat that he claims he broke
43:30
Speaker 2: the hit record with to anyone who wants one.
43:33
Speaker 1: He's buying it down to sports Chile Man and signing it.
43:36
Speaker 1: That's all that's happening, right, now.
43:37
Speaker 2: So, yeah, Pete Rose was kind of a piece of
43:39
Speaker 2: shit too, but is currently is.
43:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, that guy's gonna die, and then we're gonna put
43:44
Speaker 1: him in the Hall of Fame because it's like it's
43:46
Speaker 1: just a museum. Yeah, he has to be in it.
43:48
Speaker 1: He's too good not to be in it, and he's
43:50
Speaker 1: a dick, so we're going to deny it to him
43:51
Speaker 1: while he's alive. Right, that's how this ends. And Pete Rose,
43:55
Speaker 1: here's this and kills himself. I guess I'll just stare
43:59
Speaker 1: blankly at the like then he wants to be in
44:02
Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame then still being an asshole, you
44:05
Speaker 1: know what I mean, like, or kill yourself.
44:08
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, so yeah, all of the the suspension or
44:12
Speaker 2: the this investigation happens, and then Jordan just retires. And
44:18
Speaker 2: the thing about Jordan retiring at the age of thirty,
44:23
Speaker 2: he was at the top of his game, absolutely, and
44:26
Speaker 2: we're talking about one of the most competitive people to
44:29
Speaker 2: ever walk the earth.
44:31
Speaker 1: There is.
44:34
Speaker 2: No I to me, I can't picture him genuinely walking
44:39
Speaker 2: away from basketball and risking the impact it would have
44:43
Speaker 2: on his legacy, especially.
44:46
Speaker 1: By he couldn't if he had a choice, you mean.
44:48
Speaker 2: Right, And especially to do that then go play baseball,
44:53
Speaker 2: which because then you're just saying, okay, well you still
44:56
Speaker 2: want to compete and you still want to be an athlete,
44:58
Speaker 2: but you just don't want to play basketball anymore.
45:00
Speaker 1: There's no version of this where Michael Jordan is so
45:04
Speaker 1: arrogant that he believes he is talented enough to have
45:07
Speaker 1: conquered basketball and then thinks he could conquer baseball even
45:11
Speaker 1: though he's wrong about that. I could see it.
45:13
Speaker 2: There's no version of that true, like it's that's definitely possible.
45:18
Speaker 1: But just him walk.
45:21
Speaker 2: I feel like he had to know see if he
45:23
Speaker 2: was gonna quit and do and play a sport professionally.
45:27
Speaker 2: Even at the time, I was always surprised it wasn't
45:29
Speaker 2: golf because.
45:31
Speaker 1: He is probably No, he's not good enough at golf.
45:32
Speaker 1: He's lost enough money doing it. I've always heard he's
45:35
Speaker 1: a really good golf wise, O nine hundred thousand dollars
45:38
Speaker 1: to fucking whoever the aquainnas, Mike Aquas. That's a good point,
45:42
Speaker 1: Like that guy's not I mean, that guy's not Jack Nicholas. No,
45:45
Speaker 1: you know what I mean.
45:47
Speaker 2: And so it's the competitiveness that makes people wonder. But
45:51
Speaker 2: I think that is a good point. He could also
45:53
Speaker 2: be like, well, I'm just gonna go be the best
45:54
Speaker 2: of baseball for a while.
45:55
Speaker 1: It takes a certain kind of delusion for a man
45:58
Speaker 1: to switch sport. It's this way for sure. I think
46:01
Speaker 1: he's gonna be equally good at both, right, Like I
46:04
Speaker 1: understand that we had Dion Sanders and Bo Jackson around
46:07
Speaker 1: that time, like maybe ten eight years before or whatever,
46:10
Speaker 1: so it's not like we didn't have crossover athletes. But
46:13
Speaker 1: like Jordan's starting from zero, you know, Yeah, he's like
46:17
Speaker 1: Tim Tebow trying to make the Mets right, which you
46:19
Speaker 1: know is probably not gonna happen. I hear it might happen. Actually, yeah,
46:23
Speaker 1: I did see, Like he's doing well, I know, doing well.
46:27
Speaker 1: He's I love it, Yeah, I mean, good for him.
46:30
Speaker 1: I like, yeah, he's super religious, but who fucking cares.
46:34
Speaker 1: He's a nice guy. Yeah, it could be worse. He
46:36
Speaker 1: could be could be worse, could be Aaron Hernandez. Also Hernandez,
46:40
Speaker 1: that is accurate that I would rather be Tim Tebo definitely. So.
46:46
Speaker 2: Another weird aspect of this is Jordan's retirement speech, yes,
46:50
Speaker 2: where he says five years down the line, if that
46:53
Speaker 2: urge comes back, and if the Bulls will have me,
46:55
Speaker 2: and this is the important part, and if David Stern
46:58
Speaker 2: lets me back in the league, I may come back.
47:02
Speaker 2: The fuck do you mean if David Stern lets you
47:04
Speaker 2: back in the league. It is a suspicious thing to say,
47:08
Speaker 2: because what choice would David Stern have. Oh, he could
47:11
Speaker 2: tell you you can't come back, even if if you
47:13
Speaker 2: just retired.
47:14
Speaker 1: I think so. I think he I think he has
47:16
Speaker 1: some oversight there. Yeah.
47:17
Speaker 2: Maybe, but that's still like, what would make anyone assume
47:21
Speaker 2: David Stern wouldn't let Jordan back in the league.
47:25
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure at the time it played as
47:27
Speaker 1: being deferential. Yeah, I'm sure it played that way. It
47:30
Speaker 1: is a strange thing to say, So there's no going
47:33
Speaker 1: around that.
47:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a it's a really weird thing to tag on.
47:36
Speaker 2: Yeah to that sentence. It certainly adds to the fuel
47:40
Speaker 2: to this. Yeah, and yeah, that's that's another thing that
47:44
Speaker 2: makes people think this was a conspiracy. And I I
47:48
Speaker 2: don't know if every aspect of this story is correct,
47:52
Speaker 2: but I do feel like there was probably some secret
47:55
Speaker 2: back deal, like backdoor deal that got Jordan out of
48:00
Speaker 2: the league in a way that didn't make everyone look awful.
48:03
Speaker 1: This hinges on like a couple of key facts, like
48:07
Speaker 1: all this does. One is, none of us really agree
48:10
Speaker 1: with the narrative that Jordan just got tired of playing basketball, right,
48:14
Speaker 1: none of us really believe that. All of us are
48:16
Speaker 1: looking for a different answer than that. I think I
48:19
Speaker 1: agree with that, Like, that doesn't fit who Michael Jordan is. Yeah,
48:23
Speaker 1: especially not since he came back and three peed it
48:25
Speaker 1: again and then came back again and played as a
48:27
Speaker 1: wizard when he owned that team.
48:29
Speaker 2: And then there's a conspiracy we'll talk about in the
48:31
Speaker 2: next episode. Yeah, really blows the idea that Jordan would
48:35
Speaker 2: walk away from competitiveness in any form.
48:37
Speaker 1: No, I don't need that one bit, not one bit.
48:39
Speaker 1: After that Hall of Fame speech, I was like, this
48:41
Speaker 1: man will kill anyone to be to be a little
48:44
Speaker 1: better than you. Yeah, did he kill James Jordan? Dude?
48:47
Speaker 2: You know it was like this gambling shit A big story, right,
48:51
Speaker 2: I need a bigger story.
48:53
Speaker 1: I'm gonna murder my dad. I'm gonna I'm gonna mob
48:56
Speaker 1: murder my dad secretly, Yeah, and then called.
49:00
Speaker 2: The sheriff's deputy son from my dad's car phone, which,
49:04
Speaker 2: by the way, that's who these whoever called that from
49:07
Speaker 2: that car phone, They called a sheriff's deputy's kid who
49:11
Speaker 2: later ended up being arrested for as also a.
49:14
Speaker 1: Drug mus drug king king pitting. Okay, so that's one
49:19
Speaker 1: of the facts. I mean, also the fact that David
49:21
Speaker 1: Stern is just fucking sleazy and like nobody believes him. Yeah,
49:25
Speaker 1: you know, that's another quality to this. But frankly, uh,
49:29
Speaker 1: I think I think this whole thing just hinges around
49:32
Speaker 1: the gambling facts, right, And why would he ever retire?
49:36
Speaker 1: Why would he ever do that that? It doesn't make
49:38
Speaker 1: any sense. Nobody thought it made sense at the time.
49:40
Speaker 1: We were all let down. Yeah, it's like why you're
49:43
Speaker 1: I hated him because I was a Lakers fan, Andy,
49:45
Speaker 1: I still didn't want to be lave.
49:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I fucking I was broken when mikelat
49:51
Speaker 2: tired because I was a Bulls fan and we were
49:53
Speaker 2: like in the thick of it.
49:55
Speaker 1: But I was also that last championship before he retired,
49:59
Speaker 1: we just barely won. Yeah, yeah, like it was tight,
50:03
Speaker 1: and I don't know, I was worried if we went
50:06
Speaker 1: a fourth year in a row, we weren't gonna win.
50:08
Speaker 1: It's I mean, have we seen more than a three pat.
50:11
Speaker 1: I mean we probably have with Bill Russell's team somewhere, right.
50:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, because Bill Russell, way back in the eleven championships,
50:17
Speaker 2: You've never.
50:17
Speaker 1: Fucking played anybody any good. I don't want to hear
50:19
Speaker 1: anyone as Bill Russell. It's like, fuck Bill Russell. I'm sorry,
50:23
Speaker 1: I'm just not having it. Everyone, Like I'm sure he's
50:26
Speaker 1: one of the best ever. I'm not. And he seems
50:28
Speaker 1: like a great guy, but like, I'm tired of the
50:30
Speaker 1: Bill Russell, Like, well, you won eight hundred championships. Yeah,
50:33
Speaker 1: who are they playing? Right? You know they're not playing
50:35
Speaker 1: fucking Charles Barkley. Yeah, you know they're not playing against
50:39
Speaker 1: Shaq and Kobe or you know what I mean. Yeah,
50:41
Speaker 1: that's true. Anyway. Uh yeah, I think I buy this.
50:45
Speaker 1: I think I buy this conspiracy. Yeah, this one seems believable.
50:48
Speaker 1: It's better than the alternative, which is that Michael Jordan
50:52
Speaker 1: was tired of playing basketball and then thought he could
50:55
Speaker 1: conquer in baseball, because that's insane.
50:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, and even the him playing baseball makes sense in
51:04
Speaker 2: that at that time, I believe Jerry Krouse also owned.
51:09
Speaker 1: The White Sox. Interesting, and that allowed Jerry Krouse to
51:13
Speaker 1: keep paying Jordan. That's interesting even though he had quit.
51:17
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if he was making minor
51:18
Speaker 1: league money. Probably not, I assuming he was making a
51:22
Speaker 1: little more. You don't quit your NBA star player salary
51:27
Speaker 1: to fix your gambling problem. That's not how you fix
51:30
Speaker 1: a gambling problem. Sure, you know what I mean. So like,
51:33
Speaker 1: don't give me that as an explanation, but like, oh,
51:35
Speaker 1: he's trying to fix his gambling debts. No, no, you
51:37
Speaker 1: make more money to fix gambling problems, not less.
51:40
Speaker 2: And it also set him up, presumably to make merchandise money. Yeah,
51:44
Speaker 2: on jersey sales and T shirt sales. So yeah, the
51:48
Speaker 2: baseball thing always just seemed strange to me.
51:52
Speaker 1: Nobody wanted him to play baseball. No, I didn't want
51:54
Speaker 1: him to play baseball. If he's good at it, I
51:56
Speaker 1: don't care, especially not playing for the White Sox. Fuck. Yeah,
51:59
Speaker 1: Cubs fan? How really? Oh yeah, you're the only person
52:02
Speaker 1: from Chicago I know that's a Cubs fan. Oh yeah,
52:05
Speaker 1: because White Sox Schmidt is a White Sox is a disgusting,
52:09
Speaker 1: nasty White Sox fan.
52:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm a Cubs fan. I have a plaque in
52:13
Speaker 2: the studio. Look at that I cried when they won
52:17
Speaker 2: the World Series. He should they Yeah, yeah, that's great.
52:21
Speaker 2: So yeah, I believe this one too, Like I think
52:25
Speaker 2: I don't know about the James Jordan murder.
52:27
Speaker 1: That's so much to believe.
52:29
Speaker 2: And honestly, it's the less interesting of the two to me,
52:32
Speaker 2: even though James Jordan was murdered and that's sad.
52:35
Speaker 1: I like the glad handing of this. I like that
52:37
Speaker 1: David Stern is like, I can't afford for Michael Jordan
52:41
Speaker 1: to be punished for his mistakes, right because my job
52:44
Speaker 1: is to make money for these owners and this hurts that.
52:47
Speaker 1: So this guy is actually too big to fail, Like
52:49
Speaker 1: this is a bailout for him. What if Stern killed
52:52
Speaker 1: Jordan's dad, would you put? He didn't he didn't bring
52:55
Speaker 1: pigs in a blanket to their meeting, Yeah, you know exactly.
52:57
Speaker 1: Stern just like just looked at him with his frog mouth.
52:59
Speaker 2: He knew he needed a cover story to get Jordan
53:01
Speaker 2: to retire, and he's like, I.
53:03
Speaker 1: Got it, you gonna kill his dad? Just shut up
53:07
Speaker 1: to David Stern. David Stern is the best Evil commissioner
53:11
Speaker 1: that isn't Vince McMahon. He's the best at that. Yeah,
53:14
Speaker 1: like he was the first one getting booed and like
53:17
Speaker 1: just just drinking it in. Yeah, like making him stronger.
53:20
Speaker 1: I love that shit.
53:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, he fucking adores it and he's been commissioner for
53:24
Speaker 2: a long time.
53:25
Speaker 1: Well, he gave it up a few years back for
53:27
Speaker 1: Adam Silver, who's done a nice job with it. Oh yeah,
53:29
Speaker 1: Adam Silver got rid of Donald Sterling as his first
53:32
Speaker 1: major act. Oh that's right, which was a big move.
53:34
Speaker 1: You know that was a good move. Yeah. I remember
53:37
Speaker 1: after the Donald Sterling thing, I saw the Clippers play
53:40
Speaker 1: the Celtics on MLK Day and I was like, this
53:44
Speaker 1: is tense, but also is this like the NBA paying
53:48
Speaker 1: the Clippers back? Like how about you beat up on the.
53:51
Speaker 2: Team from racist town on MLK Day for in exchange
53:56
Speaker 2: for the Donald Sterling.
53:57
Speaker 1: Also strange because their coach was coach of both the Clippers.
54:00
Speaker 1: Coach at that time, Doc Rivers was coach of the
54:02
Speaker 1: Clippers and then before that the Celtics.
54:04
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there's like a lot of history in in
54:07
Speaker 2: that matchup. Oh basketball, Yes, such fun. So yeah, that's
54:12
Speaker 2: that's this episode. I say fifty to fifty on the conspiracies.
54:17
Speaker 2: I don't know about the James Jordan thing.
54:19
Speaker 1: But I don't believe that one, but I but I
54:20
Speaker 1: do think by the retirement. I do think he got
54:23
Speaker 1: a handshake retirement here.
54:25
Speaker 2: And next week we're going to talk about some other
54:28
Speaker 2: Jordan conspiracies, one of them being the craziest one I
54:33
Speaker 2: think of all and also kind of believable, which covers
54:37
Speaker 2: his time as a GM and working in the front office.
54:41
Speaker 2: I'm really excited about this. The Bobcats element. Yeah, it's
54:44
Speaker 2: gonna be great. Until then, what do you have anything to.
54:48
Speaker 1: Plug before we get out of here, Well, you can
54:49
Speaker 1: find me on Twitter at the Real Games and also
54:52
Speaker 1: I'm co host of a podcast called One Upsmanship with
54:55
Speaker 1: Mike Swain on the Small Beans Network. Very nice, everyone,
55:00
Speaker 1: check out the Small Beans Network. I gotta get up
55:02
Speaker 1: a sway moved recently. I think we live closer together,
55:05
Speaker 1: so I gotta get over there and do some podcasts. See,
55:08
Speaker 1: we'd love to have you play games. You game much?
55:10
Speaker 2: Not really okay, but I know that there's like, yeah,
55:12
Speaker 2: you do movies and stuff. I do movies and I
55:14
Speaker 2: do depression, so I could do either.
55:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, you'll fit right in. They'll love that.
55:20
Speaker 2: Also, speaking of Patreon, Patreon dot com slash on pops.
55:24
Speaker 2: You can sign up there for all of our podcasts.
55:27
Speaker 2: We do so fucking many. Oh my god, it's insane.
55:31
Speaker 2: We have twenty different shows.
55:32
Speaker 1: We put out fifteen episodes a week, and some of
55:36
Speaker 1: those are episodes you can only get on Patreon. We
55:39
Speaker 1: do seventeen Patreon only episodes a month, all for five dollars,
55:44
Speaker 1: you cheap bitches, sign up for that. Seems like a
55:48
Speaker 1: good deal.
55:49
Speaker 2: And at Adam Todd Brown on Twitter and Instagram, and
55:53
Speaker 2: don't fucking follow me on Facebook.
55:54
Speaker 1: Man's doing that anyway? Yeah, I don't even check it anymore.
55:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, I still have so I can message comics about
56:01
Speaker 2: booking shit, but I don't use it for.
56:03
Speaker 1: The message and for event invites. Yeah yeah.
56:06
Speaker 2: And even then, if you've invited me to something on
56:09
Speaker 2: Facebook recently, I'm probably not coming. I doubt that I
56:12
Speaker 2: saw that invite and I'm sorry in advance.
56:16
Speaker 1: All right, let's get the fuck out of here. At
56:18
Speaker 1: say goodbye audio, thanks for having me, goodbye everybody. We
56:21
Speaker 1: love you people. Your probably has to be