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NEW ORLEANS HOMICIDE DETECTIVE SLEUTHS: 'THE WORST OF THE WORST' · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 2: A New Orleans homicide detective the modern day at Q
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Speaker 2: Poirot slews the worst of the worst. Now hold on
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Speaker 2: right there, Number one, very high crime city, New Orleans,
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Speaker 2: the big easy. So are some murders worse than other murders?
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Speaker 1: How bad can it be? This guy has the answer
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Speaker 1: to that. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I
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Speaker 1: want to thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 3: Detective James Fife began his career with the New Orleans
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Speaker 3: Police Department as a patrol officer before advancing to detective
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Speaker 3: in the fall of twenty twenty one. Since his promotion,
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Speaker 3: he has successfully solved over twenty four consecutive cases, showcasing
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Speaker 3: his dedication and skilled.
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Speaker 1: It's not just dedication, it's not just hard hours.
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Speaker 2: To close twenty four consecutive homicides in a row that
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Speaker 2: takes serious slew thing.
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Speaker 1: Who is this guy? Listen?
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Speaker 4: James Fife leaves his Massachusetts security screening job to follow
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Speaker 4: his dreams of becoming a cop. New Orleans catches five's
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Speaker 4: eye actually circulating help wanted posters amid a hiring slump.
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Speaker 4: Fife begins as a patrol officer in Algiers and works
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Speaker 4: his way up the Fourth District Task Force into property crimes.
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Speaker 4: After time on the Violent Crime Abatement Investigation Team, Fife
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Speaker 4: finally gets a shot in the homicide division, just as
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Speaker 4: Nola sees a huge spike in violent crime.
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Speaker 1: And joining us.
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Speaker 2: Now homicide Detective James five. Detective five, thank you for
1:44
Speaker 2: being with.
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Speaker 5: Us, Thanks for having me.
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Speaker 1: It's an honor, Detective five.
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Speaker 2: Twenty four consecutive homicides, that's extremely rare. Do you recall
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Speaker 2: the first homicide investigated with New Orleans?
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Speaker 5: Of course, yeah, case like that stays with you.
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Speaker 6: I mean each of them really, but your first case,
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Speaker 6: you know, you're you're analyzing every little step, and for
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Speaker 6: sure that's not something you forget. It was in September
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Speaker 6: of twenty twenty one. My first case was a shooting
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Speaker 6: of three individuals on two Lane Avenue outside of a
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Speaker 6: bar at the location, which was successfully cleared.
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Speaker 2: Detective five, what do you recall of that first homicide investigation?
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Speaker 6: Basically every little detail, you know, it's microanalyzing everything I
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Speaker 6: was doing under you know, management of more veteran officers,
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Speaker 6: making sure you don't take any missteps, because that the
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Speaker 6: mistakes are high and on your first case that pressure
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Speaker 6: really sinks in.
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Speaker 2: So that was a triple shooting outside of a bar,
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Speaker 2: I assume at night. I have found in my own
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Speaker 2: investigations it's really hard to pin down bar goers to
3:01
Speaker 2: get a statement out of them.
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Speaker 1: How did you do it?
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Speaker 6: Yeah, Well, in this case, the witness testimony, you know,
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Speaker 6: provided some sequencing of events, but it was mostly video
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Speaker 6: footage and it sort of one thing led to another,
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Speaker 6: and it was one of those cases that unraveled really well,
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Speaker 6: got some momentum. But our shooter was masked at the time,
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Speaker 6: so it wasn't even as though we needed a witness
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Speaker 6: to point to an individual and say that's the guy.
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Speaker 1: It was a masked shooter.
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Speaker 6: Yes, sort of a I mean a hit you could
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Speaker 6: call it. But it seemed pretty pretty planned and partially
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Speaker 6: organized on the part of the perpetrator.
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Speaker 2: Now, when you say it seemed planned, how do you
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Speaker 2: know the difference between your routine bar shooting and a
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Speaker 2: planned hit.
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Speaker 1: See, that's just like you five.
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Speaker 2: You toss it off as your first homicide. When I
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Speaker 2: find out now it was a planned execution.
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Speaker 1: What happened?
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Speaker 7: Yeah?
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Speaker 6: And I don't mean to ever sound flipping about any
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Speaker 6: of the cases. I talk about I think one of
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Speaker 6: the side.
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Speaker 2: Effects that you're modest. I mean it in that way
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Speaker 2: you never take credit for all of your work. You
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Speaker 2: make it sound like I didn't have that much to
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Speaker 2: do with it. It solved itself.
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Speaker 1: But no, you solved it.
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Speaker 2: I didn't know the first case was a planned assassination
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Speaker 2: and execution.
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Speaker 1: What happened.
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Speaker 6: Yeah, And not to digress, but real quick, sometimes it
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Speaker 6: can feel a little like insensitive to sort of celebrate
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Speaker 6: any success in this field, because even when you've done
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Speaker 6: your job well, the worst has already happened and somebody
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Speaker 6: has died, So to take like a victory lap sometimes
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Speaker 6: feels a little tone deaf. But you do have to
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Speaker 6: allow yourself to appreciate the wins when you get them.
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Speaker 6: But getting to this incident, when you watch the video footage,
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Speaker 6: and again it's still in phases of trial, so I
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Speaker 6: can't really speak into too much detail, but the method
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Speaker 6: approach of the incident itself shows that this is not
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Speaker 6: a spontaneous thing. This is definitely, you know, just the
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Speaker 6: dawning of a mask in the use of like a
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Speaker 6: draco firearm, you know, sort of implies that this is
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Speaker 6: something with some level of organization beforehand.
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Speaker 2: To those that are not familiar with a Draco firearm,
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Speaker 2: could you explain.
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Speaker 6: Oh, yeah, it's so, it's it's it looks like an
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Speaker 6: assault rifle, but technically it's an automatic pistol. But it's
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Speaker 6: very much in favor. Or it's a chic weapon. I
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Speaker 6: guess at least it was a few years ago among
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Speaker 6: some of the youth. But it has like a wood grip.
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Speaker 6: It's a very distinctive looking.
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Speaker 1: Weapon, you know.
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Speaker 2: To me, it looks like a Draco looks like a
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Speaker 2: saw off shotgun with a fancy handle, because the butt's
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Speaker 2: not that long.
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Speaker 1: Is it?
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Speaker 5: Yeah?
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Speaker 6: I think you know, it could be argued that it's
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Speaker 6: favored because it's it's concealable for a big weapon. It's
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Speaker 6: still something you can kind of stuff into a jacket
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Speaker 6: or down your pants if need be. But yeah, it
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Speaker 6: could easily be mistaken for something else, like a saw
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Speaker 6: off shotgun or what.
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Speaker 2: I understand that you left Massachusetts security screening to follow
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Speaker 2: your dream of because make a homicide detective. When in
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Speaker 2: life did you decide I want to solve murders.
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Speaker 6: Oh that's a tough one. Not exactly sure, Like when
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Speaker 6: when that switch flipped. But for sure my parents were
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Speaker 6: teachers and social workers, so I've always had like a
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Speaker 6: public service drive. But I think maybe I needed a
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Speaker 6: little bit more excitement to what I chose to do.
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Speaker 6: So wanted policing from sort of since high school, you know,
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Speaker 6: much to my parents' dismay at the time.
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Speaker 5: But chase that down.
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Speaker 6: Those jobs back in you know, the early two thousands
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Speaker 6: a little harder to come by, especially.
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Speaker 5: In New England.
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Speaker 6: But if you do believe in, you know, that mission
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Speaker 6: driven work, I think you're you need to be willing
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Speaker 6: to move where you're needed.
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Speaker 1: At that time. Did you have a family, No not.
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Speaker 6: I was not married, no children at that time yet,
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Speaker 6: so it was a bit easier to pick up and
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Speaker 6: move across the country to to chase something like this.
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Speaker 1: What were you doing in your security screening job?
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Speaker 6: I worked for a federal contract company that was doing
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Speaker 6: background checks for people that needed security clearances like top
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Speaker 6: secret security clearance or.
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Speaker 5: What have you.
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Speaker 1: Guys, listen to this.
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Speaker 4: While many detectives only handle about five homicide cases a year,
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Speaker 4: Fife is assigned to nearly forty cases over three years
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Speaker 4: because he keeps clearing them. Since twenty twenty two, Fife
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Speaker 4: closes twenty four consecutive cases. He is assigned to his
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Speaker 4: coworkers keeping track on a whiteboard they've dubbed the Fifometer.
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Speaker 4: Fife's work helps the homicide division bring its clearance rate
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Speaker 4: from forty percent and twenty twenty two to above seventy
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Speaker 4: six percent today.
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Speaker 2: I know you're probably too humble to comment on the
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Speaker 2: Fife meter of tally that people keep within within your
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Speaker 2: office at Homicide. I never, never, while I was prosecuting
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Speaker 2: counton wins, if you can call them that, and I
8:01
Speaker 2: think it's hard to get but you were alluding to
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Speaker 2: it earlier, Detective five, when you sawve a homicide, or
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Speaker 2: when I would prosecute a homicide and the jury would
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Speaker 2: return a guilty verdict, I didn't really feel any joy
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Speaker 2: or celebration. I didn't go out and have a night
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Speaker 2: on the town. I turn around, you know, feeling half
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Speaker 2: dead myself after weeks of trial, and there would be
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Speaker 2: the victim's family just completely rung out, just having endured
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Speaker 2: so much. And it's not like solving the homicide or
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Speaker 2: getting the guilty verdict fixes things. I think victims' families
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Speaker 2: think that's going to fix everything, and it doesn't, and
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Speaker 2: I never felt I didn't feel like doing it, But
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Speaker 2: in retrospect, I don't think it's.
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Speaker 1: Appropriate to go out and celebrate.
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Speaker 2: When when the victim's family just moves onto their next
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Speaker 2: step of grieving.
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Speaker 1: I agree with you.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's exactly right.
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Speaker 6: You know, sometimes at its worst, this job just feels
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Speaker 6: like we're kind of mitigating the damage that's already been done,
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Speaker 6: trying to provide some sort of reliefs to the family.
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Speaker 6: But you're right, when it's all said and done, the
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Speaker 6: dust settles, you know that loved one's still gone and
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Speaker 6: there's nothing we can do to undo that. I guess
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Speaker 6: it's just about general public safety, making sure somebody who's
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Speaker 6: able and willing to do that can't do it again,
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Speaker 6: among other things.
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Speaker 2: You know, I think we've well, not we, not you
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Speaker 2: and I, but I think the world has seen too
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Speaker 2: many crime shows on TV because.
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Speaker 1: It's not like that at all.
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Speaker 2: You go to a murder saying I've seen a rookie
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Speaker 2: cop start vomiting from the smell of a dead body
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Speaker 2: hadn't even gone into the scene yet, because it really
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Speaker 2: is enough to make you throw up. But when you
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Speaker 2: get in there, it's a lot grimier and dirtier and
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Speaker 2: stickier than any TV show that I know of has.
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Speaker 1: Ever portrayed what it's really like.
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Speaker 2: And you know, on the movies, that's all fake blood,
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Speaker 2: it's all fake. And anybody that's been in the homicide
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Speaker 2: business knows what it's really like. And the celebrations they
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Speaker 2: have in movies and TV when a case is solved,
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Speaker 2: I don't get it. Could you explain what a homicide
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Speaker 2: scene is really like? I try, but I don't think
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Speaker 2: I convey it very well.
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Speaker 6: Yeah, of course, you know, just getting back to what
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Speaker 6: you said earlier, I should say there are moments of
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Speaker 6: like excitement and adrenaline rush in this job that are
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Speaker 6: truly fun, like cracking mysteries, right, But at its core,
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Speaker 6: homicide detective, the work we do is kind of profoundly
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Speaker 6: grim and sad at times, and it takes a good
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Speaker 6: deal of like emotional intelligence and endurance to sort of balance,
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Speaker 6: you know, handling these cases with the sensitivity and the
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Speaker 6: gravity that they deserve, but also not letting it haunt
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Speaker 6: your dreams every night. You know, because you do this
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Speaker 6: job long enough, there are a lot of unsolved cases
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Speaker 6: that continue to follow you. But that said, these cases
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Speaker 6: The crime scenes themselves are hugely varying in what they
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Speaker 6: look like and the issues that are opposed by each one.
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Speaker 6: But in addition to the actual active homicide scenes, we
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Speaker 6: respond to any unclassified death, so just a deceased person
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Speaker 6: and we don't really know what happened to them. We
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Speaker 6: go out and provide support to the district units on that,
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Speaker 6: and some of those, as well as some of our homicides,
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Speaker 6: can be pretty pretty grizzly, especially when it's you know,
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Speaker 6: something that hasn't been addressed for several days, someone's been
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Speaker 6: sitting in a spot, and you get pretty used to
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Speaker 6: so I guess encountering and stomaching the detective five.
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Speaker 1: You men.
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Speaker 2: These cases, Your case is creeping into your dreams, and
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Speaker 2: I remember that very well. You eat, drink, breathe, live
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Speaker 2: a case. And I don't know how other trial lawyers
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Speaker 2: do it. I couldn't go out to dinner. I couldn't
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Speaker 2: do anything during a trial or preparation for a trial,
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Speaker 2: because you have one shot, you have one swing that trial,
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Speaker 2: and if you don't do it all, try it all,
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Speaker 2: give it two hundred percent, you'll never get to do
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Speaker 2: it again. There's no do over for the state, And yeah,
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Speaker 2: I would dream about my cases a lot, and even now,
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Speaker 2: still all these years later, still dream about some of them.
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Speaker 1: Five.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, I can relate to that for sure. And again
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Speaker 5: I think it's a balance.
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Speaker 6: If you're going to do like what we do or
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Speaker 6: have done for a long and a period of time,
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Speaker 6: you need to strike that balance between compartmentalizing work and
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Speaker 6: your home life, but not getting so checked out or
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Speaker 6: cynical to the point where you know people can can
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Speaker 6: tell and they're like, oh, this detective doesn't care and
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Speaker 6: you're not as invested as you ought to be. But yeah,
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Speaker 6: especially early on, you know, I'm up at night thinking
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Speaker 6: about what I could have missed or just that case
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Speaker 6: that I haven't solved.
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Speaker 5: For sure.
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Speaker 2: When you say you're up at night thinking about what
13:34
Speaker 2: you could have missed, you know, like a lot of people,
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Speaker 2: they leave the house and go, oh, did I turn
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Speaker 2: off the coffee pot or did I close the garage door?
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Speaker 1: What are the kind of things that go through your mind.
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Speaker 2: At not you know, like, oh, my stars, did I
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Speaker 2: fill in the blank?
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Speaker 5: Yeah? For sure?
13:59
Speaker 6: Did I handle that interview the right way? Could it
14:01
Speaker 6: have been this other thing? And when you find the
14:04
Speaker 6: time a lot of it's sort of a juggling act.
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Speaker 6: But you do circle back to you know, your twenty
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Speaker 6: twenty one, twenty twenty two cases in my case and
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Speaker 6: you know, give give them another look, see if there's
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Speaker 6: anything else I could do. But when you do have
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Speaker 6: a city with you know, sort of ongoing case load,
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Speaker 6: it can be hard to sort of jump back and
14:23
Speaker 6: find time to do that.
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Speaker 5: We also have a very effective cold case unit.
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Speaker 6: Here in NPD, which provides some support for that, but
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Speaker 6: there's nothing like the initial detective that handled the case
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Speaker 6: to know the ins and outs and what might have
14:37
Speaker 6: slipped through the cracks. I think anybody who's been a
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Speaker 6: homicide detective knows that there is a degree of luck, right,
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Speaker 6: but followed up by hard work to be opportunistic about
14:45
Speaker 6: the lucky breaks you are given.
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Speaker 4: Detective Fife has cleared twenty four cases in a row
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Speaker 4: stretching back to December twenty twenty two.
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Speaker 6: That's a lot in a row that have some kind
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Speaker 6: of at least short term resolution. You know, they'll have
14:57
Speaker 6: to proceed through court. A clearance is you know, at
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Speaker 6: the detective level, what we're always trying to shoot for.
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Speaker 3: Throughout his time with the NOPD, and Detective Fife has
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Speaker 3: played a key role in reducing crime across New Orleans.
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Speaker 3: His efforts have directly contributed to a dramatic increase in
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Speaker 3: the city's homicide clearance rate, which has risen from forty
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Speaker 3: percent to an impressive seventy five percent.
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Speaker 2: Joining us is veteran homicide detective Detective Fife, who was
15:29
Speaker 2: now racked up twenty four consecutive solves Detective five.
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Speaker 1: Have these cases gone to trial yet?
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Speaker 5: Many not?
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Speaker 6: And it's generous when you say veteran detective. I've been
15:42
Speaker 6: doing homicide work for just four years now, so a
15:45
Speaker 6: lot of those cases are still haven't been adjudicated. It
15:48
Speaker 6: takes several years in many cases for these to actually
15:51
Speaker 6: go through your child.
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Speaker 2: I would say that twenty four consecutive homicide investigations correct qualifies.
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Speaker 1: You as a veteran.
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Speaker 2: It's like saying I've only been in Vietnam for four years,
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Speaker 2: you're a veteran.
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Speaker 1: How did you pick New Orleans?
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Speaker 6: My girlfriend at the time now wife, had moved down
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Speaker 6: here and I followed just for a visit and saw
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Speaker 6: the hiring posters for NOPD and thought I'd just give
16:19
Speaker 6: it a shot, and yeah, it worked.
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Speaker 5: Out pretty well for me.
16:22
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the Second Line shooting.
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Speaker 4: Listen, it seems almost all of New Orleans has turned
16:29
Speaker 4: out for the nine times Social Aid and Pleasure Club's
16:32
Speaker 4: annual Second Line, a parade featuring brass bands and dancers.
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Speaker 4: Dressed to the nines. Thousands of revelers scramble for safety
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Speaker 4: when gunfire rings out Injuring eight, Just forty five minutes later,
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Speaker 4: a mile down the parade route, another shooting, this time
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Speaker 4: killing two. The victims are identified as nephew Rashaan Carter
16:50
Speaker 4: twenty one and uncle Malachi Jackson, nineteen.
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Speaker 7: You know, we can't say that because they were forty
16:57
Speaker 7: five minutes apart, and different kind of approach of how
17:00
Speaker 7: the shooting was, so we don't know could be, but
17:04
Speaker 7: right now don't know that.
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Speaker 2: That is New Orleans PD Commissioner speaking. And that's where
17:09
Speaker 2: my friends at WDSU the so called Second Line shooting.
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Speaker 2: What is the annual Second Line Parade?
17:17
Speaker 1: Five?
17:19
Speaker 6: Yeah, So New Orleans is a city, right is very
17:23
Speaker 6: proud of and kind of protective of their very unique
17:25
Speaker 6: cultural traditions, right, one of which our Second Line parades,
17:28
Speaker 6: which are sort of these big on foot processionals where
17:32
Speaker 6: people can jump in and just march to music and
17:35
Speaker 6: just generally socialized a lot of fun. Highly recommends if
17:38
Speaker 6: anybody's visiting you come check these out. But because this
17:41
Speaker 6: shooting occurred well to actually two separate incidents, but because
17:45
Speaker 6: my shooting, the homicide that you mentioned occurred during one
17:49
Speaker 6: of these events, had a lot of extra scrutiny upon it.
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Speaker 6: Besides the fact that two individuals were deceased, which is terrible,
17:57
Speaker 6: this also could have had way more victims when you
18:00
Speaker 6: see that the crowd's present, and I think the public
18:03
Speaker 6: had a very strong interest in making sure that this
18:06
Speaker 6: was dealt with very quickly so that people could feel
18:09
Speaker 6: safe at these second line events again, which again is
18:11
Speaker 6: one of the things that make our city great and unique.
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Speaker 2: Another thing regarding a shooting in a large group like
18:20
Speaker 2: at a festival or a parade, and has its own
18:23
Speaker 2: set of difficulties in finding the shooter. How did you
18:29
Speaker 2: find the shooter? Was there just one shooter or more?
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Speaker 6: Yeah, in my incident there was one shooter, And you're right,
18:36
Speaker 6: hugely chaotic scenes generally, you know everybody is watching and
18:42
Speaker 6: it's broad daylight. But because there's so many people involved,
18:45
Speaker 6: it can be difficult for anyone to sequence exactly what
18:47
Speaker 6: happened or who was responsible. So we had to get
18:51
Speaker 6: at it a different way in this case. And again
18:53
Speaker 6: this is one of those cases that's still in court,
18:55
Speaker 6: so it's not something I can get too into the
18:57
Speaker 6: nitty gritty, But it again got its own moment them
19:00
Speaker 6: and one thing led to another and we were able
19:02
Speaker 6: to make two arrests related to the homicide.
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Speaker 2: Part of Detective five is refusing to comment on the
19:08
Speaker 2: facts of the case so as not to tank the investigation. I, however,
19:15
Speaker 2: can comment on the facts.
19:17
Speaker 1: Listen.
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Speaker 4: Investigators learn of an ongoing feud between Westwego and Marrero
19:23
Speaker 4: where Shawn and Malachi's neighborhood. Surveillance footage and phone records
19:26
Speaker 4: placed Curtis Gray on the Almanaster Bridge at the time
19:29
Speaker 4: of the shootings, and recovered shell casings matchic gun registered
19:33
Speaker 4: to his mother. There is enough evidence to charge Gray
19:36
Speaker 4: with Rashawn and Malachi's murders, and his mother, Ashley Gray,
19:40
Speaker 4: is charged as an accessory for trying to dispose of
19:42
Speaker 4: the gun and fabricate an alibi for her son.
19:50
Speaker 2: Crime stories with Nancy Gray.
19:56
Speaker 1: You know, a Detective five.
19:57
Speaker 2: It's sometimes for some people to blame a mother who
20:02
Speaker 2: is trying to help her defendant son. So let's step
20:07
Speaker 2: away from the exact case and talk about that bond
20:11
Speaker 2: in general. Very often prosecutors and cops are attacked for
20:17
Speaker 2: pursuing a mother or father.
20:20
Speaker 1: Who's trying to protect their child.
20:22
Speaker 2: But on the other side of the pendulum is the
20:26
Speaker 2: victim and the victim's mother and father. So when you
20:30
Speaker 2: get a mother, for instance, trying to get rid of
20:34
Speaker 2: evidence to clear.
20:35
Speaker 1: The son, you got to go after them.
20:38
Speaker 2: And sometimes that's a hard thing to do, to go
20:40
Speaker 2: after somebody's mother.
20:41
Speaker 6: Yeah, for sure, and understandably the motive for that is
20:46
Speaker 6: something a lot of parents can relate to. But I
20:48
Speaker 6: think you know, as a parent, we all have a
20:51
Speaker 6: point at which you know, you need to draw a
20:54
Speaker 6: line and say, no, I am not supporting my child
20:56
Speaker 6: if xyz. And there needs to be community buy in
21:00
Speaker 6: for a lot of these homicides. When you have you know,
21:03
Speaker 6: whole groups or families sort of circling and protecting defendants
21:07
Speaker 6: in some of these cases, it can be hugely problematic.
21:09
Speaker 6: So you need community buy in and everyone to be
21:12
Speaker 6: invested and concerned about the outcomes of these investigations.
21:15
Speaker 1: I think.
21:15
Speaker 6: Our District attorney Jason Williams addressed this issue very well
21:18
Speaker 6: regarding this case specifically in a press conference where you
21:22
Speaker 6: know enough is enough at some point, and if you
21:24
Speaker 6: provide aid to shelter or seek to obfuscate an investigation,
21:29
Speaker 6: even for a loved one, you are potentially culpable.
21:32
Speaker 2: Detective five. Of course, as you know, the state, the
21:37
Speaker 2: prosecution never has to prove motive. The state is not
21:43
Speaker 2: expected to get into the mind of a murder defendant
21:46
Speaker 2: and poke around like you're in Granny's attic and find
21:49
Speaker 2: the motive. However, when you go to trial, very often
21:54
Speaker 2: the jury will want a motive. Here's a good example
22:01
Speaker 2: the Alexi Murdog double murder trial that went down in
22:04
Speaker 2: South Carolina.
22:06
Speaker 1: His wife and son were murdered.
22:09
Speaker 2: And I'm sure that jurors may have wondered, well, why
22:12
Speaker 2: would a dad murder the wife and the son. I mean,
22:15
Speaker 2: we see domestic homicides all the time, or spouse kill spouse,
22:19
Speaker 2: but the wife and the son. The state did not
22:22
Speaker 2: have to prove the motive, but they did. An upcoming
22:26
Speaker 2: divorce would have called for financial legal discovery, and Alexi
22:33
Speaker 2: Murdog's multimillion dollar con on his clients, his family, his wife,
22:39
Speaker 2: and many others. His law partners would have been found out.
22:43
Speaker 2: So his answer, kill them both. Here's another example, Brian Coburger.
22:50
Speaker 2: I'm sure you're familiar with the quadruple homicide in Idaho
22:54
Speaker 2: where the defendant, Brian Coburger, had no ostensible connection, no
22:58
Speaker 2: link to the victims.
23:01
Speaker 1: So what would be the motive?
23:03
Speaker 2: That would have been a hurdle for the state. The
23:06
Speaker 2: defense could have argued, he doesn't even know these people,
23:08
Speaker 2: why would you believe he came in in the middle
23:10
Speaker 2: of the night and kill them slaughtered them. Well, as
23:14
Speaker 2: it turned out, he was a criminology student and was
23:17
Speaker 2: obsessed with murder and what it would feel like and
23:22
Speaker 2: what would go through the mind of the killer.
23:24
Speaker 1: He wanted to feel it, and he did.
23:27
Speaker 2: And I'm very interested in your second line homicide case
23:32
Speaker 2: because no one knew that there was a feud going on,
23:37
Speaker 2: and the defense could have argued, hey, they pulled my
23:40
Speaker 2: guy off a bridge, and now they're trying to pin
23:43
Speaker 2: this on him. You would never have known what was
23:48
Speaker 2: behind it. You had to get to the feud, the motive.
23:53
Speaker 2: How difficult is it for you to ferret out a
23:56
Speaker 2: motive in your cases, Detective Fife.
24:00
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a good question, and for sure you were
24:02
Speaker 6: right to characterize motive not always being available to us.
24:07
Speaker 6: It can be seen sometimes as like a bonus and
24:09
Speaker 6: our investigations. But if the facts of the incident speak
24:12
Speaker 6: for themselves, and if it's clear that this person did it,
24:15
Speaker 6: then a lot of times we don't need to know
24:16
Speaker 6: what was going on in their heads, as you said,
24:19
Speaker 6: but sometimes you get clues to it conversations the person's
24:22
Speaker 6: had with other people. We get a lot of help
24:24
Speaker 6: from social media, sometimes phone record history and such. And
24:29
Speaker 6: in this case, the second Line incident, there was some
24:33
Speaker 6: contextual stuff that we unraveled digitally that sort of did
24:37
Speaker 6: back up what we have been hearing on the street,
24:39
Speaker 6: as it were.
24:40
Speaker 2: And again, if I don't want to push you on
24:41
Speaker 2: any facts sensitive to the case, because that case is penning,
24:46
Speaker 2: and if you were to comment on it any of
24:48
Speaker 2: those facts, that could be a problem, and I don't
24:51
Speaker 2: want you to have a problem. Let's move on to
24:54
Speaker 2: another case, but one of your cases. But before that,
24:57
Speaker 2: I want to go back to the five meter, the
25:01
Speaker 2: tally that is on big whiteboard that other people with
25:05
Speaker 2: a homicide unit are keeping on your cases. You're not
25:09
Speaker 2: worried that, Mike, Jinx. You let me guess you're not superstitious.
25:14
Speaker 6: Well so, just as a point of clarification, that whiteboard
25:17
Speaker 6: exists in our public affairs office and not in homicide
25:22
Speaker 6: per se. But yeah, there's a lot of superstition in
25:27
Speaker 6: the field policing in general, but in homicide in particular.
25:31
Speaker 6: We talk a lot about the homicide gods and what
25:33
Speaker 6: you've done to anger them and which resulted in this
25:36
Speaker 6: terrible case you've.
25:37
Speaker 5: Been given sometimes.
25:39
Speaker 6: But yeah, again I need to take the opportunity to
25:42
Speaker 6: praise my homicide unit.
25:44
Speaker 5: In general.
25:45
Speaker 6: We have I think an eighty percent clearance rate this year,
25:48
Speaker 6: which is very high as I understand it nationally. But
25:52
Speaker 6: we're looking for any source of like enthusiasm or motivation
25:57
Speaker 6: a lot of the times, very supportive of one another
26:00
Speaker 6: successes and reaching out to try and provide help whenever
26:03
Speaker 6: somebody seems to be faltering and you know, keeping track
26:07
Speaker 6: of a clearance streak. Yeah, that that might be seen
26:11
Speaker 6: as a potential jinx. But again I guess it can
26:13
Speaker 6: be something that you know, provides some enthusiasm and motivation.
26:17
Speaker 1: You know, I have found that like baseball players.
26:22
Speaker 2: I was extremely superstitious during every trial, and I would
26:28
Speaker 2: stick to certain behavior, stick to certain rituals before I
26:34
Speaker 2: would go to trial every single trial. Now, I don't
26:40
Speaker 2: know if it's too personal, but do you have superstitions
26:45
Speaker 2: that you follow in your investigations?
26:49
Speaker 6: I don't. I guess some kind of boring in that regard.
26:51
Speaker 6: I'm not a very superstitious person.
26:53
Speaker 5: I do.
26:55
Speaker 6: I find that the best cure for any anxiety about
26:59
Speaker 6: a case to just can't like dive into the material itself.
27:02
Speaker 6: If you spend hours going over something before you have
27:05
Speaker 6: to appear in court, that can kind of calm me down.
27:08
Speaker 6: Nothing's worse than just going into something feeling unprepared. But
27:13
Speaker 6: beyond that, you know, no, there's no there's.
27:14
Speaker 1: No real worst feeling unprepared.
27:17
Speaker 2: Oh two never, never have you ever watched someone work
27:23
Speaker 2: that's unprepared.
27:24
Speaker 1: It's the worst you just see. It's like a slow
27:26
Speaker 1: motion train wreck.
27:28
Speaker 6: Yeah, you need to be master of your your own case,
27:32
Speaker 6: to sort of be be the single best source of
27:36
Speaker 6: that narrative and everything that was done, have an answer
27:38
Speaker 6: for everything. For sure, we all get caught off guard.
27:41
Speaker 6: But I guess you want to try and you know,
27:42
Speaker 6: mitigate that and just be the guy who knows everything
27:45
Speaker 6: about this incident that can be done.
27:47
Speaker 1: Which leads me to the thon view case. Well I
27:52
Speaker 1: shall though, Oh no, are you my sale? That's no
27:59
Speaker 1: way good.
28:02
Speaker 2: She's gonna be a liar.
28:04
Speaker 4: In the final hours of twenty twenty four, Ton Vu
28:07
Speaker 4: tends her supermarket, a pillar of the Nola Vietnamese community
28:10
Speaker 4: since she opened thirty years ago, but three customers are
28:13
Speaker 4: seeking more than groceries. Ton held at gunpoint while the
28:17
Speaker 4: thieves emptied the register and pocket cigarettes. When Ton fights back,
28:21
Speaker 4: she's shot and left for dead. Her killers quickly brought
28:24
Speaker 4: to justice. Angenou, Henny Davis, Adrian Harris, and Nathaniel Carpenter
28:29
Speaker 4: all charged in the fatal robbery, Carpenter confessing to the crime.
28:33
Speaker 2: That original sound from our friends at Fox eight Detective five,
28:37
Speaker 2: what happened to than View?
28:40
Speaker 5: Yeah, that was a tough case.
28:41
Speaker 2: Again.
28:41
Speaker 6: We try not to qualify any of our murders, you know,
28:44
Speaker 6: none are any better or worse than any others. But
28:49
Speaker 6: ms Vu was sort of a fixture of the Vietnamese
28:51
Speaker 6: community in the New Orleans East area and was a
28:54
Speaker 6: longtime owner of a convenience store at that area that
28:57
Speaker 6: had stood the test of time. Other businesses opened and closed.
29:00
Speaker 6: That store has has been around for as long as
29:03
Speaker 6: many people can remember it. And this is sort of
29:05
Speaker 6: just one of those senseless, you know, botched robberies as
29:08
Speaker 6: we understand it. Again, this is another one that is
29:11
Speaker 6: still in court proceedings. But you had the right of it,
29:14
Speaker 6: as you explained that there were three people charged with.
29:17
Speaker 2: Us, Detective five, I don't like what you just said.
29:23
Speaker 2: You refer to the murder of than Vu as a
29:29
Speaker 2: botched robbery. I don't like that terminology going forward, because
29:36
Speaker 2: somehow it lessens the degree of intent to have a
29:43
Speaker 2: group of men enter a grocery store and confront an unarmed,
29:49
Speaker 2: defenseless female and in order to rob her and she
29:56
Speaker 2: got shot.
29:57
Speaker 1: Like what, the gun just went off on its own.
29:59
Speaker 1: That was big accident. I botched that bs. That is
30:04
Speaker 1: an intentional murder.
30:06
Speaker 2: Under the law, the time for formation of intent can
30:11
Speaker 2: be as brief as a twinkling of a moment, the
30:14
Speaker 2: blink of an eye, much less in time it takes
30:17
Speaker 2: to raise the gun and pull the trigger.
30:19
Speaker 1: That was intentional.
30:22
Speaker 2: And I take umbrage at anyone describing as, oh, it
30:30
Speaker 2: was a botched robbery.
30:32
Speaker 1: She's dead wrong. They pulled the trigger.
30:37
Speaker 6: Right, and it's no less terrible the context or the
30:42
Speaker 6: motive behind it. But that's just I suppose, in the business,
30:45
Speaker 6: one of the ways in which we would describe a
30:46
Speaker 6: certain type of incident. But you're right that you know
30:49
Speaker 6: that just as culpable as any other homicide, whether it
30:53
Speaker 6: was a robbery or somebody that you just loathed and
30:55
Speaker 6: wanted to put out of this world, just as bad.
30:59
Speaker 1: Hey five, you know what hurts me?
31:01
Speaker 2: On top of dealing with crime victims, in my line
31:06
Speaker 2: of business, it was always a violent felony either homicide,
31:12
Speaker 2: family left behind, rape victims, childless station victims are some victims,
31:19
Speaker 2: but it made it worse.
31:21
Speaker 1: For me when.
31:25
Speaker 2: The victim would come from a part of our world
31:30
Speaker 2: that is not really represented as.
31:33
Speaker 1: It should be.
31:34
Speaker 2: It could be a minority, it could be a woman,
31:39
Speaker 2: an infant in this case, the Asian community, many of
31:45
Speaker 2: them not advocated for as strongly as for other people, right,
31:55
Speaker 2: And so it kind of heaps insult to injury, pain
32:00
Speaker 2: on pain. When I saw nun vu Von's husband speaking
32:07
Speaker 2: and he said I saw the blood on her head,
32:08
Speaker 2: I told myself, there's no way she can still be alive.
32:14
Speaker 2: They must sometimes feel like no one cares about them.
32:22
Speaker 2: Do you ever hear that from minorities or women?
32:28
Speaker 6: Yeah, for sure. I mean the data is out there.
32:30
Speaker 6: There are certain demographics that are affected more by violent crime,
32:34
Speaker 6: and those groups are it's really important to make inroads
32:38
Speaker 6: with them and sort of establish some trust. And that
32:41
Speaker 6: can be hard when you know, certain groups don't feel
32:46
Speaker 6: like they've had the support of police or the colinal
32:48
Speaker 6: justice system in general in the past. So you have
32:51
Speaker 6: to sort of find a way to show somebody you
32:53
Speaker 6: do care and you are invested and look, I'm here
32:57
Speaker 6: to help, not to hinder, you know, not just write
33:01
Speaker 6: people off, because maybe that's what they've been getting up
33:04
Speaker 6: until now.
33:05
Speaker 1: Did they defive?
33:06
Speaker 2: The vast, vast majority of victims that I represented in
33:10
Speaker 2: felony court were women, children, and minorities, and they felt
33:19
Speaker 2: like nobody cared about them.
33:22
Speaker 1: And that nobody would fight for.
33:24
Speaker 2: Them, and that nobody cared about their cases. So on
33:27
Speaker 2: top of trying to investigate and prosecute the case, I
33:32
Speaker 2: felt this burden of trying to convince them that someone
33:36
Speaker 2: did care. That's a big burden that you are now
33:41
Speaker 2: carrying and I want to talk about another case that
33:45
Speaker 2: you handle, which is dear to my heart, the case
33:48
Speaker 2: of Raven Francis.
33:51
Speaker 4: I missed my mama a lot.
33:53
Speaker 7: She's pretty funny.
33:54
Speaker 1: She was a nice person. She loved us very much.
33:57
Speaker 1: She would do anything for us, and she will always
33:59
Speaker 1: be with me.
34:00
Speaker 4: Raven Francis, a mom of four, enjoys one of her
34:03
Speaker 4: first nights out since welcoming her youngest six months ago.
34:07
Speaker 4: Raven and friends head to the Shamrock, but an argument
34:09
Speaker 4: breaks out with another group and the friends try to
34:12
Speaker 4: escape in their car. As they pull out, gunfire erupts.
34:15
Speaker 4: Raven's sister is just grazed, but Raven is shot in
34:18
Speaker 4: the head, bleeding profusely, and the resulting panic, the driver
34:22
Speaker 4: clips a fire hydrant, flipping the car. By the time
34:25
Speaker 4: first responders can get everyone out, Raven is gone.
34:28
Speaker 1: That was from my friends at Fox eight Crime Stories
34:38
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace.
34:42
Speaker 2: I think another issue and I want to find out
34:45
Speaker 2: how you deal with at five or the tangental murder victims,
34:51
Speaker 2: the collateral victims of murder, like Raven's ten year old
34:56
Speaker 2: little boy. I mean, okay, when the twins were born,
35:02
Speaker 2: they were extremely premature in my children, and I would
35:05
Speaker 2: pray every night, Lord, please just help us out of
35:07
Speaker 2: the hospital.
35:07
Speaker 1: Please help us out of the hospital. Okay, we got
35:09
Speaker 1: out of the hospital.
35:10
Speaker 2: Then it went to Lord, please let me get them stabilized.
35:13
Speaker 2: Let me get them eating lucy weigh two pounds five
35:17
Speaker 2: two pounds, as small as a kit.
35:19
Speaker 1: All right.
35:20
Speaker 2: Then we get to one, you know, like, Lord, please
35:22
Speaker 2: help me get help me get them into school. Just
35:25
Speaker 2: let me live long enough now is let me get
35:27
Speaker 2: them through high school. There it's going to be college.
35:29
Speaker 2: Let me get them, help me, help them find their
35:31
Speaker 2: I mean, it never ends so for a mother to
35:34
Speaker 2: be wrenched away from her children, and this little boy
35:38
Speaker 2: just ten years old. I mean, when you get in
35:42
Speaker 2: your car and you leave the crime scene. There were
35:46
Speaker 2: times I'd have to pull over on the side of
35:48
Speaker 2: the road and just sit there and try to process
35:51
Speaker 2: all the suffering one bullet caused.
35:55
Speaker 1: How do you deal with that?
35:58
Speaker 6: Yeah? Sure, there's almost a little bit of like survivor's
36:02
Speaker 6: guilt in this job sometimes if you let yourself really
36:05
Speaker 6: think about it, like what right do I have to
36:07
Speaker 6: be unaffected.
36:08
Speaker 5: By violence like this?
36:09
Speaker 6: You know, when you go home and if you have kids,
36:12
Speaker 6: like hug your kid after something like this and just
36:15
Speaker 6: you know, feel it. But yeah, you're right that so
36:22
Speaker 6: many are affected by these murders beyond just a victim.
36:24
Speaker 6: And that doesn't really always clear immediately, but as you
36:28
Speaker 6: start talking to family, you establish that relationship, it really
36:31
Speaker 6: becomes evident. And then you know, these cases take years
36:34
Speaker 6: in court. Sometimes I'll show up to court and I'll
36:36
Speaker 6: see a kid that's grown up, like hugely in the interim,
36:39
Speaker 6: and it, like you said, it really just hits you
36:42
Speaker 6: that this timeline that this child is going to live,
36:45
Speaker 6: you know, their whole life and grow up in all
36:46
Speaker 6: these milestones without a parent. It's hard to stomach, especially
36:50
Speaker 6: once you have kids of your own.
36:52
Speaker 2: We were just showing photos of Raven Francis, a mom
36:55
Speaker 2: of four renched away from four children.
36:59
Speaker 1: And then there is a teen girl, Leah Perry.
37:03
Speaker 4: Leah Perry, seventeen, is the latest victim in a string
37:06
Speaker 4: of drive by shootings. Leah, mom to five month old Peyton,
37:10
Speaker 4: was clearly not the shooter's intended target. Surveillance footage shows
37:13
Speaker 4: a newer model Infinity with no plate in dark tint,
37:17
Speaker 4: pull up to the teen and fire several shots. Detective
37:20
Speaker 4: Fife digs up more video of the alleged driver wearing
37:23
Speaker 4: a distinct pair of striped red pants. The same exact
37:26
Speaker 4: pair Kenn Salisbury posts photos in with a gun tucked
37:30
Speaker 4: in the waistband. Salisbury, already behind bars for two other shootings,
37:34
Speaker 4: charged with an additional count of murder.
37:37
Speaker 1: So five, I'm not going to ask you to comment
37:39
Speaker 1: on the facts of the case. I'll do it.
37:41
Speaker 2: Idiot, idiot, So he's posting online the red striped pants
37:46
Speaker 2: with a gun stuck down the pants.
37:49
Speaker 1: I had a guy that wore a.
37:51
Speaker 2: Red leather ensemble the night he gunned somebody down dead.
37:57
Speaker 1: He was a dope lord.
37:59
Speaker 2: He came to court some idiot, another idiot, there's so
38:03
Speaker 2: many to pick from.
38:04
Speaker 1: Gave him a bond. Five. What did he wear on
38:09
Speaker 1: day one of court? The red ensemble. I was so happy.
38:14
Speaker 2: I stood behind him and like was literally pointing to
38:17
Speaker 2: him in front of the jury. So sometimes they throw
38:24
Speaker 2: you a bone. Heaven just drops a fact in your
38:28
Speaker 2: lap for you to run with those red striped pants.
38:31
Speaker 1: I'm sure that's something you'll never forget. Five.
38:35
Speaker 2: I know you have to leave the studio and get
38:37
Speaker 2: back to the streets, but I want to understand how.
38:43
Speaker 1: You deal with a crushing case load.
38:47
Speaker 2: I remember I had been on trial for about three
38:49
Speaker 2: weeks straight, and I would take all my evidence, all
38:54
Speaker 2: my files with me.
38:56
Speaker 1: I would carry them around on rollers.
38:59
Speaker 2: And those giants postal white plastic boxes that sit around
39:03
Speaker 2: the courthouse and the mail people leave and stack them
39:06
Speaker 2: up and take them back and forth to my car
39:08
Speaker 2: after court because I didn't want to leave them anywhere
39:11
Speaker 2: for them to be tampered with. Long story short, I
39:13
Speaker 2: wasn't back in my office for about two weeks.
39:16
Speaker 1: I just go straight to the courtroom. That said.
39:20
Speaker 2: When I got back to my office there was still
39:22
Speaker 2: a jug of milk in there that I had left
39:24
Speaker 2: there two weeks before. Uneaten Krispy Kreme doughnuts, and every
39:32
Speaker 2: other day the Indictment Division Record the court records would
39:37
Speaker 2: bring in new files while I was on trial, and
39:40
Speaker 2: the stag I had gotten so tall on my desk
39:44
Speaker 2: it had fallen over like an accordion and started going
39:48
Speaker 2: down the side of my desk.
39:49
Speaker 1: When I walked back in, I'm like, how am I
39:53
Speaker 1: going to keep up?
39:55
Speaker 2: And then I realized I couldn't, So I just took
39:58
Speaker 2: the next homicide CA and started working, because that's the
40:02
Speaker 2: only thing I need to do after I threw away
40:05
Speaker 2: the milk and the Krispy Kreams.
40:07
Speaker 1: But how do you deal with a crushing caseload?
40:13
Speaker 6: Yeah, I can totally relate to that, and it's, you know,
40:17
Speaker 6: the caseload itself. You're right to is just focus on
40:20
Speaker 6: the task at hand and then sort of juggle some
40:22
Speaker 6: time and bounce back to other cases when you can.
40:26
Speaker 6: But beyond that, it's you know, when you don't solve
40:28
Speaker 6: these they continue to follow you and they haunt you,
40:33
Speaker 6: and the families parents of those cases will call, you know,
40:37
Speaker 6: sometimes weekly for an update, and you have to tell
40:40
Speaker 6: them this parent every week for years that there are
40:44
Speaker 6: no updates on the case, I'm sorry, and that can
40:47
Speaker 6: that sort of collects and it's like more of a
40:50
Speaker 6: burden on your shoulders every year you do this job.
40:53
Speaker 6: So it's about not giving in to apathy's cynicism or
40:57
Speaker 6: just treating it like it's an assembly line, you know,
40:59
Speaker 6: try to maintain that whatever optimism you can and not
41:03
Speaker 6: come up with any dramatic conclusions about the nature of
41:05
Speaker 6: mankind or.
41:06
Speaker 5: Anything like that.
41:07
Speaker 6: And then beyond that, everybody has their organizational tricks. You
41:10
Speaker 6: have to really know how you work and what makes
41:13
Speaker 6: you effective as an investigator, what your weak points might be,
41:17
Speaker 6: and just try to tread with water and hope for
41:20
Speaker 6: a time when the murder rate is down.
41:23
Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting to me five well, so many things,
41:26
Speaker 2: but we always hear about police conspiracies. For instance, that
41:31
Speaker 2: Lapdate framed OJ Simpson.
41:33
Speaker 1: That's a really good example.
41:36
Speaker 2: And my experience, I was inundated, like a tidal wave
41:42
Speaker 2: after wave after wave.
41:44
Speaker 1: Of new cases.
41:46
Speaker 2: I didn't have time to even think about framing somebody.
41:51
Speaker 2: I could hardly keep my nose above water handling all
41:54
Speaker 2: the cases I was given. Right, what do you what
41:58
Speaker 2: is your reaction? And yeah, I know they're dirty cops.
42:01
Speaker 2: I know that they're there. But all the theories that,
42:06
Speaker 2: for instance, there's a theory right now that Brian Coberger
42:09
Speaker 2: was fryed.
42:10
Speaker 1: Really he just played guilty. I don't get it.
42:14
Speaker 2: What's your response when everyone points back on the police.
42:19
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I think not with that, not totally
42:22
Speaker 6: without justification to be suspicious of the criminal justice system.
42:26
Speaker 6: Sometimes if you go back and look at our history, yeah,
42:28
Speaker 6: there are plenty of incidents of you know, egregious actions
42:32
Speaker 6: by many of our you know, DA's police. But that said,
42:38
Speaker 6: one of the frustrating things about this line of work
42:40
Speaker 6: is that the systems often seen as like this monolithic thing,
42:44
Speaker 6: like you know, they're There are so many different departments,
42:47
Speaker 6: all with varying levels of oversight and different relationships to
42:52
Speaker 6: their communities that it feels sometimes unfair if something happens
42:57
Speaker 6: in you know, Oklahoma, and then the community here in
43:01
Speaker 6: New Orleans now loses trust in police. And it's a
43:06
Speaker 6: hard thing to sort of to pitch to the people
43:07
Speaker 6: that know we're different.
43:09
Speaker 5: Because you know we're not.
43:10
Speaker 6: Then I'm a person, We're owned department, Please trust us.
43:15
Speaker 6: But when police are all in uniform and sort of
43:18
Speaker 6: seeing as the same thing, yeah, those a lot of
43:21
Speaker 6: those scandals sort of follow all departments in the country.
43:25
Speaker 6: It's sort of like we were all in this together
43:26
Speaker 6: as police. Don't screw it up for the rest of
43:28
Speaker 6: us by doing something awful.
43:30
Speaker 1: You know.
43:31
Speaker 2: Five, When I heard about all the specials about you
43:37
Speaker 2: and your solve rates so far knock on web product,
43:42
Speaker 2: I didn't know what to expect. I'm glad to know
43:46
Speaker 2: that you're not a show horse. You are a workhorse,
43:53
Speaker 2: and I'm very proud.
43:58
Speaker 1: That you are humble. I notice you never take credit,
44:03
Speaker 1: and you're right.
44:04
Speaker 2: You wouldn't be where you are if it wasn't for
44:08
Speaker 2: what they are doing.
44:10
Speaker 1: It's a team.
44:12
Speaker 2: I would never have won a single case if it
44:14
Speaker 2: weren't for my investigator, Earnest, trudging out in the cold
44:18
Speaker 2: and the rain, sometimes of snow, going through crack houses
44:22
Speaker 2: and whorehouses and strip bars.
44:24
Speaker 1: And you name it, trying to find witnesses.
44:27
Speaker 2: Combing through a shooting scene for any ballistics left behind
44:32
Speaker 2: up at one o'clock, two o'clock, three o'clock.
44:34
Speaker 1: In the morning.
44:35
Speaker 2: I could never have done it without him, right, So
44:41
Speaker 2: I really appreciate you saying that it's your unit, and
44:47
Speaker 2: you just happen to be in the chair right now
44:49
Speaker 2: talking about these cases. I wish you the very very best,
44:56
Speaker 2: and you're ongoing struggle against the violent crime and one
45:01
Speaker 2: of my favorite cities, New Orleans. God bless you and
45:06
Speaker 2: stay safe to take to Fife. And thank you for
45:09
Speaker 2: your time.
45:10
Speaker 5: Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It's been
45:12
Speaker 5: a pleasure.
45:15
Speaker 2: We stop now and we remember an American hero, Sergeant
45:18
Speaker 2: Thomas DuRane el Reno, PD, Oklahoma, killed in the line
45:22
Speaker 2: of duty after fourteen years leaving behind a grieving wife
45:27
Speaker 2: and children with no dad. American hero Sergeant Thomas Durant
45:34
Speaker 2: Nancy Grace signing off