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Part 2 Captured: One Marine's Fight to Survive the Iranian Revolution · Making Shooters Better

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to Making Shooters Better.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: In part one, you heard the moment that Ken realized he was in a place where hope literally goes to die.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: But today the story shifts.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: What happens to you when you're no longer just a captive?
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: But rather a pawn in some dark twisted game, far darker, I think, than anyone could imagine.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Part two isn't just about his survival, it's also about being brave enough, even when completely alone and apparently forgotten to draw that line in the sand and never do or say anything that you think would bring you dishonor.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna pick up with Ken in his cell, asking other prisoners about whether or not they're going to get fed.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: I said, when are we getting anything to eat around here?
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, uh when they feel like feeding you, they feed you.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you got breakfast, lunch, and dinner, you can figure out, okay, breakfast, lunch, dinner, I'm day one, day two, day three, no.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I I crawled up in a corner and you know, just put my ass up against the wall and you know, kept my face looking out at these guys.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody seemed unfriendly, but nobody was warming up to you either.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, some guys were eyeballing you, other guys didn't give a shit, you know, who you were.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: They're just worried about their their own, you know, uh problems that they had there.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: No other Marines on that?
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: I was the only Marine that was wounded, the only the only American that was taken off of the embassy.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then Yeah.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's a fact.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so what happened is that well let me let me finish where I was going.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Is that now what happens is that the uh the first time they come for me, uh they come down and they ask for the American in cell number five.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: American from the from the embassy to Sephiroth and in cell number five, Ponge.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm trying to pick up on Farsi and uh they take me out and I key again, you can't tell if there's breakfast b without breakfast, lunch, or dinner.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: And uh the first round of interrogation comes with a uh with the these guys in in three-piece suits.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Three-piece suits, they date they put they take me into this room.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: It wishes it really wasn't an office room, but they try to make it look like one.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's real damp and dingy, and that smell is just you know still gagging you.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: And uh they they helped me up the steps and they they parked me at the table, and they come in and they were saying that uh, you know, they introduced themselves right away as as businessmen uh from uh whatever Chechistan or something like that.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: And right away I know you're you can't hide a Russian accent.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care where you think you're from.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I said, okay, uh, okay, Igor, I mean, where are we going with this one?
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: And uh he didn't like me calling him uh Ivan or Igor.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: I know he said, we're not on a friendly basis, but we are business, the Russian businessmen that heard that the uh embassy had been uh assaulted and and overtaken, and uh that you know there was a uh wounded mur and wounded person over here.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Then they just wanted to come over and help me out and find out who I was, how I was, and go back and tell the embassy or go back and tell, you know, uh their people, you know, basically they're just bullshitting me and wanting me to find out exactly who I was because no one knew.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even I couldn't tell you who I was, I couldn't prove anything.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: I just they just know that I was from the embassy and I got shot.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'm taken out over here.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: So the Russians, you know, they they basically sitting there trying, and they did these are like one these are retard 101 KGB, you know, dropouts, you know, and uh they're sent over here, the field idiots.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember looking at one, he had a uh fake Rolex watch on, and I'm trying to, you know, have they have the date calendar on it, and I'm trying to eyeball it and lean forward and see that and say, because that'll tell me you know how long I've been here because I know I was shot on the 14th, you know, and basically it's the same thing.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: But he saw me doing that and he pulled his uh he pulled his shirt sleeve down and he goes, You like you like watch?
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: I give you a watch.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: He said, You give me answers, you I said you have watch.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: That how stupid.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: What the f am I gonna do with a watch down in here?
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: Tell time.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, he's trying to uh trying to bribe me.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, it went back and forth, and uh he just saying, Well, I wish we wish we could help you.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I bet I I I probably think in in retrospect, and when the time I was writing my book, what the heck they were doing?
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what were they thinking?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: What did he know?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: But basically, uh they had found out later when I got debriefed at the State Department.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: They had known that when they had once found out where I was, that the normal procedures of Russians that they found out through the Fed Ain or whatever, like, yeah, we attacked the embassy, we did this, we did that, and that uh one of them, you know, we lost a lot of guys, a lot of guys got shot the shit out of.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but the this one guy, this one Marine, he was thinking, oh, we're really well what?
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm speculating at this point, but this is what's being told to me by the suit uh secrets girls up there in the State Department.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: And they tell me that you probably think that uh, you know, you know, you're somebody, they don't know who I am.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: Am I the janitor?
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: Am I the CIA, you know, station chief?
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Am I an ambassador?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Who the hell am I?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm naked and you know, half, you know, half septic, you know, dying over here, no medical attention, and then they're completely confused.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: So that they sent these guys over to find out, you know, let's see who he is.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: So either they're too in uh incompetent to figure it out or get it out of me.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um they weren't in the um torture business, thank God.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: So basically when they left, yeah, when they left, you know, that their tail between their legs, they're convinced that, you know, I'm an idiot, and there's nothing of no value, no intent, you know, I'm not one of the sequel squirrels or anything similar to the to two of the women that were in the uh Caravan Sri restaurant, as opposed to them.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: So uh speculation again, you know, they leave and a thing like that.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: And they took you back to the cell again, and I was talking with uh Abdal and a couple of the other guys that spoke and I said, realize that this A VIN prison was built and for political prisoners and and and criminals and in and the criminally insane.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's got everybody in there rapists, psychos, I mean you you name it.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: But if they didn't like you and you they thought they just thought you were a problem, in you went, you know, and that was it.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: It was a horrifying area.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there was there was bones in there was bones and dirt and and and shit all over the place, and when you look at the bones, you just went like, is that a human bone or is that that left over from somebody's dinner?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: And the dinner when it gets when it fell, or food whenever it came down, was just a they they came down at a cart and it was just a big giant wooden bowl uh barrenge, rice, and with chunks of gray, I don't know what the hell they called a mystery meat.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know what it was.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't gonna be it was boiled, it was nasty.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: It was this it smelled worse than everything else around it.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: You just didn't say, How the hell do you eat that shit?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: I know I called it mystery meat.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I know it wasn't pork because they're Muslims.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: They're not gonna have pork in there.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: I said, they sure the hell ain't gonna spend money on steak or anything, so it's not gonna be cow.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, this looks like you know, I mean, yak anus or something.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what the hell what what it was.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: It was horrifying.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, so uh, you know, they just put that there with two pitches of w you know uh of water, and uh you you just got around the bowl and you stuck your hand in one hand, don't stick both hands in there.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: I got my ass beat for that.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I didn't realize one hand is for cleaning yourself and the other hand is for eating.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you know don't mix them up in the bowl, because they don't like that.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I don't blame them, you know.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I learned that quick.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, they had little little these little red chickpeas inside it.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's just just barely enough to get you by and some water.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's the you know.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, How often do we get this?
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: And Abdal says, we never know.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: I said, so I said, so when I pass out again, I said, uh I said, don't let me miss the next you know, gourmet meal here.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: I said, because uh, you know, the room service sucks.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: And kind of made friends with him, and I realized that you know he was a he used to be a pilot in the Air Force there, and then he also then when he got out, he was a private a private pilot, uh very well educated guy, and uh several of them were.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: One guy was a uh a pharmacist and I know so these weren't just you know rag tags.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: What had happened is that when Comini came in, he opened up all the cells and and let out, except for the psychos and the then the uh and the murderers, he just executed those out of hand.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Boom, killed them right away.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: Firing squad right then and there.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: Take them out in the street, put a bullet in their head.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: I got photos of it.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: Look at the book.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh see uh the uh the ones that he could find something to do with, uh, they he let them out as political prisoners, then refilled the prisons now with all very worked for the Shah or was uh uh suspected of being a Savak agent under the Shah Secret Police, something like that.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: So basically, like any revolution, you come in, you clean house, and then you know you you put all the wannabes back into you and get to talk to each one individually, you know, and figure out, you know, where you're gonna go with them or or execute them.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: And uh they uh he's he was very adamant about, he says, uh, you know, just uh what had happened, and he says, he says sometimes when it's quiet and everybody's sleeping and there's no noise, you can hear the fuselades of the other of the rifles.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: You can hear the pop of the rifles up on the roof.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean that's the firing squad area.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: If you get a picture in the book that you can see the area of on top of uh the flat top area or the roof of uh Edvin prison where it's perfect, I said, look at that.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: It looks like a hockey rink.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's an execution yard, is what that is.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: My second round will come back is that they didn't know uh they brought me upstairs on an I'm gonna say another day, and I break it down, uh Terry, in a book.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: Is it you know, each time they take me in or out or whatever, I call it a day.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know it was a day.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: It could have been an hour, it could have been a week, I don't know.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: There's total deprivation, you don't see light, you don't know how far you're out, you know, you're sick, your your your intestines are hanging out, you can't walk, there's pain coming places that you didn't even know there was going to be pain.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: You didn't, they're telling you that the American embassy had been overrun, everybody had been killed.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh nobody knows any different.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: You got other people from the from the other side, the Russians and other people coming in trying to find out stuff because they don't know, and they're telling you that so you know, and when right when I left, the last thing that I saw within my one good eye was that the the flag was down, the embassy was smoking, and that the Marines were standing with their hands up against the wall.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't see the whatever happened in the rest of the compound.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: So could it be happened?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, could it?
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: I said, yeah, most it's it's probable.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: It really is possible if not probable.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, that leads me to believe that no one knows I'm here.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: No one has a clue.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, even if you went to the ho uh to the uh hospital and and could track me there.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Which that would be miracle number four.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: You back up, there's a famous icon picture in the book of me, and I think I've sent it to you, the one where I was laying in the hospital, where this BBC reporter just happened to pop his head into the in the in there in between where uh Suza and the other gorillas in between where they they popped in and uh he was British and and he asked, you know, he said, uh quick talks.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: He goes, you know, you're from the uh he said, uh were you worth the embassy?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't want to answer him because you know I didn't know who he was at the time, lay in the hospital.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I just looked at him, he said, it's okay, mate, you can talk to me.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I knew then he said, okay, the way he was dressed, and he had a he had a camera.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, No, he said, Oh yeah, he said, Marine.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: I go, again, you know, haircut gives it away.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: And um he's saying, uh said the uh the embassy's been attacked, it's been overrun.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: He says there's no communication going in or out.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so he we had just a couple couple cut uh uh words and not even a whole paragraph between us.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: He says, You know, if I get your picture, I'm laying here, what do you want to picture me for?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: So he took a couple quick pictures.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: That iconic picture shows if it wasn't for that picture, I'd be a dead man today, and here's why.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because while I'm in A Vid prison, okay, actually what had happened, it got overrun, and the Fed Ain had attacked the embassy, being paid by the Russians to attack it, shut it down with that salt, you know, strategic arms limitation.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: You shut down that embassy, we're out of work.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, secret schools are doing nothing.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: They gotta they gotta fli fly the coupe.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: We got nothing left, you know.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: They're basically shut down for intelligence, you know, operations.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, with with that being said, it's uh he's saying, and then the f the the Fed Ayin had taken it, and then Comini's marshals, the Muhaydin, that don't like the Fed Ain, don't get along, had come over and basically saved the embassy and ran them off at gunpoint.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: I said, okay.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Didn't know that at the time, but I learned that later on.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Now, what's important about that is that I when they had a muster call and they figured, okay, let's have a body count, they realized, uh we got a Marine missing here.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, really?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: And they they interviewed uh, I guess they talked and interviewed to um uh Sergeant Ojos and Corporal Locek and said, Yeah, here's what here's what happened.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: And they gave them the uh you know the story.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: And they said, Well, where is he?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody knows where he is.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: So in between then, while that's happening now, I'm being uh I'm I'm being shown uh my second interrogation where it goes in and this is a different chamber, Terry.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: This is something that is so horrifying.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: I had to clean it up a couple times because the publisher wouldn't publish it.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm serious.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: There's no way, there's no words.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: It would be just be uh one disgusting page after the other, and I had to just clean it up.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: And some of the pictures that are in there are gonna appall you.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um saying, well, now some of now you're in the in the in the in the torture chamber where they're they come in, they they they sit you down, they drag you in, and it's it's a dark just a table, and it's kind of like a warehouse kind of uh room.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's a freaky freaky room, different.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: No lights, oh they're just one or two electric lights, and they have this chair, the almighty chair, that's um it's got arms in it, and it's bolted to the floor right over top of a drain.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: And you're looking at it and you're saying, you know, well, what's all this about?
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well anyway, these goons bring in this one guy, and they they strap him down in the chair, and they're screaming at him in Farsi, and they just beat this guy unmercifully.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I thought I took a beating and you know, with you know, oh, and the boots could put to me over at the Caravansarai restaurant.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: I said, you know, I can just feel my tailbone and my and my my my sh my my ribs hurting.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Oh God, no, man.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then you know what?
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: The whole thing is I think that they're trying to get the interrogation out of this guy.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: But no, then I come to realize there's no recording devices, there's no nobody taking notes or anything.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: So whatever they're saying in Farsi, if they're trying to extrapolate uh information out of the guy, what are they gonna write down?
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, nobody's this was done just to be barbaric.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Just to basically have me see it and some of the other people see it.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: Or maybe it was it was that end punishment.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe he did do something, you know, to deserve this.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, but no human being needs to be beaten like that.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, at one point they had taken these pair of pliers.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: I I thought they were pliers when they picked them up off the table, but really they looked more like uh uh tile chippers.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: They were they they were they got the weird end on them like that.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: And the guy wouldn't open his mouth, so they took this bar, this long steel bar, it looked like a screwdriver without a handle on it, and push it into his mouth to where it opened his mouth, and this guy grabs hold of this.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um I later became the since he was the one doing all the the uh the torturing, um, just a sadistic bastard.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: I nicked him in I nicked him Torquimado, Torque, as in the Grand Inquisitor from the you know uh Spanish Inquisition.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Just a sadistic bastard.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: If evil could have a face, I mean pure satanic demonic possession, that's what this bastard was, I'm telling you.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen him in my sleep so many times, it's n it's not funny.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, so he would just he'd get on top of this guy and he just he moved back and forth, back and forth, and he's he's screaming at them guys and in in farsi, and he I guess he's trying to pull the tooth out, but when it didn't, when he wouldn't, he'd just snap it right off at the at the gum line.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: See right now here.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: There's one that mine mine got chipped.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: So when it was my turn for the chair, and I was wondering, you know, what when it was gonna be my turn.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: When it came to my turn, it was uh it was I'd say two or three days later, it was probably two or three sessions is the best way to put it.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: I just put it in in days and um in turns in the in the book.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I say, you know, I'm waiting for mine, and you don't know the horror, you don't know the how how you say, oh my god, your eyes like this.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: What the f if this is what they're gonna do to their own people, what the hell do they got in mind for me?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: You don't even want to think about that.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: It conches up possibilities to freak you out.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: So the uh it gets to a point where his mouth is just so bloody and gushing down in sweat, he's pissing and urinating on himself, and uh now I can see why they have it over top of drain.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: The blood and the body fluids they go, hmm, huh, huh?
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: This ain't their first rodeo, you know.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: They they got this down pat.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: So uh they drag him out.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, literally, I don't know, you know, he he's a trail of blood, they drag him out.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if he's his heart stopped, you know, just from the paint or whatever, but once he passed out, you know, there's no sense doing anything to him, you know.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: They looked at me, they looked at me, they laugh, and they took me back downstairs.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this goes on two, three, four more times.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Just intimidation, they bring me up, let me watch.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: The the the two that I talk about in the book that's absolutely just unnerves me to the point where I'm all I've had nightmares about it tonight, is there where there's one guy is they they bring him in, they put him on the table, they wrap his feet up, and then they string his feet up over top of this this this uh pipe.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what goes through the pipe, it was about a two-inch pipe, water pipe, I don't know what kind of pipe it is, through the walls, and and and and pull him upside down uh to about uh chest level, so he's just barely hardened uh at a 90-degree angle, can't even can't breathe, and you can't you know can't get it.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you see that or he's already been beat up.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: He's you know, he's only been worked over a few times.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: And this and Torquimano comes over with this uh it looked like it looked, I thought it was an antenna, an old antenna to a car.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, but actually it was more like a uh a uh a piece of uh bamboo, it's just about as no thicker than your pinky.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: And you just come over and sort of wail on this guy's feet, screaming at him in farse, asking him questions, screaming at him, making more like accusations.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: And you could hear that nasty, scary whips going through the air, and it's just like and it hits this, it hits this thing.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: Every time it hit his feet, it would cut the feet open, and you'd hear him screaming and screaming, and I just thought, God damn, we'll just leave him the frick alone, will you?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Good God.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, and they they beat him, I don't know, I don't know how many times, a hundred times.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: It got to a point where his his feet were like raw hamburger.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Literally, it looked like ground beef.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I went, oh my god.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, That guy'll never walk again, you know, be it's it's incredible.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they took him over, they took, they un they undid that, and then there was this one pipe that was back in the in the back part where it was really dark, and that was a steam pipe, and they threw the they threw this rope over and they pulled him all the way up.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: It took two or three of them to pull him all the way up and then and wrap it off, and they pulled his feet right up against the uh steam pipes, and you see you could smell it cooking.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: It smelled just like burnt charcoal or burnt, you know, you you cook a hamburger and a piece falls through the grill.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's what it's smell it, sizzle it, and it's enough to make you want to throw up.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I hadn't had much to eat anyway, and my mouth was so dry, and I asked for you remember I talked about, you know, a glass of water, please, Av, A V, A V or A V H and Farsi.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's what uh Minacci, God bless his soul, man.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: I well talk about him later.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, so uh, you know, a glass of water, and I couldn't even get the water down when I put it in my mouth and it hit it hit my stomach.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I regurgitated it out, and there was some other green bile and everything.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: I said, what the fuck was that that came out of me?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, that was another torture session with this guy.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: He passes out and they they let him down.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: He's just laying there.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I these they all look dead.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: They all look, there's just lifeless in them.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's nothing.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's it's it's it's bizarre.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: And uh that's about the only thing that smelled worse that was down there was that poor bastard's feet.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh again, we go back to the uh they take me, they drag me back to my cell, throw me back in in with Abdal, and he goes, you know, he says, You're like a yo-yo.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: He says, in English, you're like the yo-yo.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: He says, You come and you go, you come, you go.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: He said, We've never seen that before.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: You're so weird.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: I said, What do you mean?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: He says, usually, you know, they come down here, they get one of us, they take us up, they interrogate us, and uh he says, uh, we either go free or we go upstairs and you know get executed.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: I said, What?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Yeah, that they take upstairs, you know, they for whatever reason they execute you or let you go.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: But basically nobody comes back and in and out, and I'm like you.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Oh, wow, oh my special day, huh?
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um get the VIP treatment.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, he's uh uh they brought me up again to another one, and uh they said, Wow, this guy, man, he he got it, he got it the worst that I of of any that I could talk about in the book.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: And uh this guy was supposedly accused of being a Sabak agent, and they had beat him, they had beat him mercifully.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: You could just tell when they they drunk him in.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: And he was in pretty good shape at one time.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he he was a good thirty five, forty years old, but he looked like he'd worked out, so you know, maybe military, I don't know, but you know, he wasn't a fat, fat, lazy bastard.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, so They he was barely conscious, you could just see when he, you know, talking to him.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: And they they strapped him down on the on this table.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: It was in a different room.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: They they they strapped him buck naked, you know, and he's just just laying there.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Oh no, God, what the hell are they gonna do to him?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm sorry I even asked because uh Torquimato had taken about a four foot length of yellow nylon rope and he pulled out a lighter and he lit the bottom of it.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: And as it started to cook, you know how it, you know, it starts to drip.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: And if you've ever it's like hot wax, you know, I've never had that per se.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: I I've touched it with I've similar touch to it when you know, but it it burns instantly, and it was just dripping and dripping and dripping, and they just wand it all and walked it up and down this poor guy's body.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: And when it hit it sizzled and you could hear it, and he screamed like crazy.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: And you can it it it it burned and it cauterized at the same time, so it wouldn't bleed, it'd just bubble until it cooled, and and then I mean they worked this guy back and forth and back and forth, and I I was I was forced to sit on the edge of this bench, and I actually got so bad I I I whatever was in my stomach, I threw up.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I went I I fell down on the floor in a uh in a fetal position, and I said, I can't take it no more.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: Fuck, I cannot fucking take this no more.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: And you could hear him screaming, and I mean, by the time they got done with him, they picked me up and put me on the uh on the bench, you know, that had to had to watch this.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: And Terry, I'm telling you, this guy looked he he looked like the best way he looked like the surface of the moon.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: He had craters all over him, his face, his body, his testicles, you name it.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Somewhere in there, I think he died because he he just he was out completely, and then they just took the they continued and he wasn't moving.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, I mean, mercifully, I think God, you know, just just took his life, would have been the best thing for him.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: You wouldn't want to go through life again you're looking like that.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so you couldn't be walking in public.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: It was it's just day after day like shit like this.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I go back down, I talked with Abdul and the other guys, and uh I said, you know, don't no, they haven't really picked on me yet.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: And uh the next one was was my turn where they put me in the chair and they was wanting to know, you know, exactly who I was.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, look, man, I've I've been over this for you a dozen times.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: I said, here's my name, my rank, here's everything about me.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's all I can tell you.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: And basically in in uh with Sear schools, they they will tell you to come up with a story that you don't want to tell them that you're you don't want to lie and bullshit and piss them off because they got the upper hand.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: And you don't want to tell them anything that you know they they want to know or need to know.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: You can't.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: But you gotta sell me, you've got to sell them a story that if you can, that you are important enough that they just, you know, you're not the janitor, you're not, you're not useless where they're just gonna, you know, put a bullet in your head right away.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, part of my story was that when I come from Nicosia, Cyprus, you know, true.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: They could verify that if they had anything left over from the embassy, you know, if they had my ID and passport and whatnot.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: I said, and I worked at the uh I worked at the Chancery Building.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't know that.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: They don't I know that they had never been at the embassy.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't know.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't the guys that attacked us.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I worked in a mail room, which we do.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: We have Marines at the mail room that, you know, watch uh we have to do security procedures on packages and you know, for suspicious packages, bombs, etc., etc.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, so he says, uh, how'd you get wounded?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I come up with a bullshit story, you know, that uh when they started shooting at the embassy like that, they they called us back up to the vault room, you know, to withdraw back up and and to uh you know, uh I didn't have a weapon.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: I said I'd I said uh I got shot on the on the way up there.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: So really when I look at it, they uh I guess they figure that since I work in a mail room, I know people and I know who where they work, I know who they are, I know their IDs and things like that.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: I will, you know, uh which maybe they think I was shuffling mail or whatever, or casing the mail.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: But it was a it was a good bullshit story that they could not confirm nor they they they could deny it.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I was of some value.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: So this one worked out another miracle in my favor.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: So this the uh uh my turn in the chair came when uh Torquemado came over and um he just now for when I first time I ever saw he was armed.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody's ever been armed in this place.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: And naturally, it's a fucking prison, you don't armed people, but he had a sidearm on.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, I know I like guns, I I know guns, I'm looking at it.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: It was a cross between a Czech 7-5 or Browning High Power.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: So it was just like that.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: It was hard to see, my eyes were were not that good, it was dark in there, and so and I remember him being left-handed, and he, you know, he uh he he drew the weapon out and he was gonna say, I'm gonna ask you one more time, Marine.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh as if you know, condescending, as if he didn't believe me.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: And and he put it up against my against my mouth, and he started to push.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I go back in a chair, back of the chair, you can only go back so far, you know, you get restricted that that point.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then that barrel, that gun, is going in your mouth.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Whether you open your mouth or he pushes it right through your your teeth, it's going in your mouth.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and the whole time he's screaming, he's got a goon on either side of him, and they're laughing, and the sadistic look he's got is just just insane, man.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: And he's he's staring at me like I mean, I I thought I'm looking at Lucifer himself.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: Unbelievable.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: And he's so eventually it it it's put in my mouth, chips my tooth really bad, you know, the front sight busts off a little piece of the tooth.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: Thank God it was it was it wasn't at the gum line.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't take any more pain, Terry.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Honest to God.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: And he's laughing all like that, and he cocks the pit.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: Bang! I'm expecting any second for the bullet to come out the blow out the back of my head.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: Hammer hits home on an empty chamber.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: I piss a shit all over myself.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: The release in yourself of everything is that you just thought you just got shot.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: You expected it.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: You anticipate it too much, you probably created it in your own subconscious.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: And all he does is sit there and laugh, ha ha ha ha ha.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then the other guys take turns when you're strapped in, they urinate all over you.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, is there anybody more humiliating and degrading?
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: And the uh somewhere in between that, I you know, I I I pass out again.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm getting to a point where I'm getting no medical attention.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: I can hardly breathe.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not getting full oxygen in in my body.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I can't stand up and you know, I'm not I'm not eating very well, I'm regurgitating everything out.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's whatever medically could be going wrong with me.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um my blood's probably septic by now with all the you know the way whatever they bandaged up to me, which by the way the bandage has fallen off, and now I can look down and see that they had put some some type of giant staples in it.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: I've got about a foot-long scar on the on my my intestine and my stomach that looks like a NFL football.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's that's the way uh the the st the stitches were that were put in again and again and again.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: So they dragged me back there and uh the uh to my cell and uh he says, What happened?
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I told him he could see my lip was a little you know bloody, and he says, uh you okay?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: And we talk about it.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you get you get to know these guys a little bit, you know, what are you doing in here, a little bit of your your life and and things like that.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just such a a hopeless place.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you know, you're waiting around in God's waiting room.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: You're just waiting for something to die.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's just there's no hope whatsoever.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: There's despair, and you say, No one knows I'm here.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Is everybody still dead at the embassy?
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, you know, I'm underground here for God's sakes, you know.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: And you're wondering, I said, it's gonna keep how long is this nightmare gonna come up?
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: Or have I already been shot and this is like you know, my my version of hell or purgatory?
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, whatever beliefs, uh Christian beliefs you had or religious beliefs you had, you start to play them out in your mind.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: When you just lay there and then you you don't go to sleep, you kind of just pass out, completely pass out.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: You wake up and you guys say, I'm in a different position.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: I rolled over, and you know, I said, I know I moved in my sleep or whatever.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: There's other people have moved in, in it, out.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: Some people have been that were there or gone, and they never come back, don't know what happened to them.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then they come for me again, and the uh this guy, this time, this guy is a uh is a Middle Easterner.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he's in a uh uh kind of like a three-piece suit, but back then he had a nice wide collar and a jacket, but no tie.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: And uh John Travolta type, you know, from uh Greece or something like that.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: Weird looking.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so uh he was saying uh he wants to interview me, so I'm back in another one of those rooms.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: And he's uh he says, uh, I'm so sorry if uh that it was so terrible that you know all that bad things have happened to you.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: I said, but uh he says, Don't worry, we can take care of you now, we can help you.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Yeah?
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh who's we?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: And he says, uh some associates of mine, and I can make all this go away.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: We can make you make you better, we get you medical attention.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: He said, we can help you out.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Yeah, what's the price?
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: I said, there's there's no price.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: He says, we just want to know who you are so we can we could tell the government, we can tell your people, we could tell your your family.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: He said, who you are and where you are, and I said, I know where I am, I know who I am.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: So he said, Why don't you just go tell them you know what it is now, maybe we can work something out here.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: And he says, Well, he says, it's not up to me.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Well, what is up to you?
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: And he says, Well, if you are a Marine, he says, if you are working in security, you they you bodyguard people, you safeguard, you know, uh secure, you know, communications, and you know, we know that there's intelligence people that work at the embassy.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: I said, you would know their operations, you would know how security, how you guys are trained all around the world.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: And he went on and on and on.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: He wanted to know, you know, basically wanted me to turn over as much as I could.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: Either I was who I said I was, and I would have that information.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, how are the Maurice trained?
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what are our protocols, safety, security, you know, et cetera, et cetera.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: How do you bodyguard people?
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: What's your what's your bomb tech, you know, everything we're ever taught, he he wanted to know.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: If I didn't know that, then now I'm lying and I'm full of shit.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, he's gonna take it from there.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Look, pal, I said, I don't know who you are, and I said, I don't know what you want besides what you're asking for.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: I said, But that can't happen.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Nobody knows that I'm here.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I'm probably gonna die in here.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I can't even speak to keep myself awake long enough to talk to you.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: I said, You're asking me to betray my country.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: Do you realize what you're asking me?
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: I said, You want me to give up so-called secrets, things that I'm supposed to know that you would use against Americans all over the world to terrorist attacks?
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: How am I supposed to believe you?
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: I give you anything that I know and you take me out and put a bullet in my head anyway.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm a traitor.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then if you're not, you turn me back over to my country, where am I gonna go home?
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: I can never go back to the United States again.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, No, pal.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: I said it ain't never gonna happen like that.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm halfway dead, no one knows I'm here.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: I said, it might as well just be end up being that way.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I am an American fighting man.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a United States Marine.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: I serve in the forces that guard our country and our way of life.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: I am prepared to give my life in their defense.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: I will not be a traitor.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: I will not tell you anything more.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: You got everything you want out of me.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: We banned back and forth and you know, he tried to he was never really mean to me.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I realized that he's not really he was a Palestinian PLO.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: He wasn't he wasn't uh Iranian, he didn't speak farsi.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh one of the guys that came in they had a a little talk and then he realized he wasn't getting anywhere with me.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: He got up, he walked out, and he said, I tried.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: Don't say that I didn't try.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: You're stubborn.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: And he left.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: So the uh So uh it's strike number three, I know, I said I I can't be any use to this guy.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: I realized, Terry, that it's uh I'm getting to be less useful, less useful, less useful.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: I said it's gonna get to a point where I'm not gonna be any good to them anyway, whether they believe me or not.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then they're either gonna execute me or they're just gonna let me die.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean either one, so what's the difference, you know?
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: And you still don't know how long you've been held at this point.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how long I've been held.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: I have no clue.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: Morning, noon, or night, then no, no, nothing.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: Complete deprivation.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: Least of my problems, it really was.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: Matter of fact, I didn't have any problems.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: The only problem I had was breathing.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: Trying to breathe, you say, I want to get a full lung full of air, but it hurts so much, but then again, it's so stank that I couldn't I can't imagine anything that you know.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: The closest thing I could imagine to it, to to try to describe it, was if you've ever m seen that movie before in prison.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: And when he goes to escape, uh that mile or whatever of sewage that he has to basically swim through.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: And every I can't even imagine that.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's probably about as close as what I can get to uh you know the smells there.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because the toilet that they had here, I asked Abdul one time, I says, Oh, I need to go to the toilet.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: I said, All right, I got cramps really bad, you know.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, What's the toilet?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: And he tells me, you he says, you go down the hallway.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: For now, for me to go down the hallway out of the it I'm crawling because I can't walk.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm crawling through all this this dirt, garbage and bones and everything else that's on that's on the on the ground.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: And he says, Down the hall, there's a at the last door down there, there's a little room that's about the size of a phone booth, an old phone booth, and there's a there's a hole in the dirt uh in the floor that you squat over or or whatever, and there's an old bucket.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it says you you go there and it says you use a bucket of water, you know, to clean yourself.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I can't even tell you about what it's like to crawl down there.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's not it's so disgusting.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: I just have to tell you it's disgusting.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's not something you want to read about in a book.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: And when they make it a move, if they make this a movie, by the way, it's a script and it's already ready to go, you're not gonna be able to put that.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: There's nobody's gonna want to see this.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: Or no, nobody, you can't.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: AI can't even, you know, r r regenerate this.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's pathetic.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: But uh you sit there and say, what is that growing?
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: What is that in that bucket?
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: We're uh talking with Adal after he told me that.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: And now for about the fifth time, they they bring me back down to my my my bed, and uh Abdal's there, he's saying, uh, you're just amazing.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: He says, uh, when and I told him everything that's going on, and he says, you know they want to use you.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he told me exactly what the Russians were, and they want to know what the Palestinians were.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: He says, and the intimidation factor, you know, this did the terror, they just wanted to uh, you know, you know, make you uh you know feel intimidated and you know terrorized.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: I go, well, they they did.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: I said, uh, that area right there, what got worse is that when I was in the chair and uh they had urinated all over me, um uh Torque and Motto had come back and and got in my face and was just laughing, and he stomped his boot right into my big toe, my great toe, and snapped it and and broke it so that you know normally all your toes look one way.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well that my toe was looking like this way.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: And the weird thing is that hurt really bad at first, but then it it was the the knuckle or whatever was broken.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I it didn't feel it compared to all the rest of the pain was going in my body, it didn't hurt that much.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: It just looked grotesque to look at, and you go, you know, that should I would think that that as ugly as it is should hurt a lot more.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't hurt until you put weight on it.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: Now you gotta walk on the side of your foot because your toes, you know, work independently and like little hydraulic, you know, as you walk.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: So when this innate walking, you've stubbed your t pinky toe before, and who hasn't?
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: And my God, for the next few minutes, you know, if not longer, you know, you can't even barely walk.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: Try with a broken, with a broken great toe.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's that's why it's it's it's so hard for them to have to come down with goons to help me anywhere I went.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it just makes you feel even more helpless because they're not really, you know, warm up to you.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: They don't help you, they grab you whatever, you know, position they want to grab you with, and you better go along and try to help them as much as possible.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: Don't even think about resisting.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's not even not even an option.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, so they get back and he says, I don't know what uh what else is left to do.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: And he says, Yeah, he says, uh, you're gonna put them in a position where I know they don't know what to do with you.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: And they uh maybe they just let you die.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, that would be a first.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: He's no, he says that would not be a first.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: There have others that uh he says, they wake up dead.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Yeah, that's funny, they wake up dead.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: They do, they just leave them to die there, they don't care whether you they they get uh if they have any wounds, if they die from not getting medical attention for being tortured, we're being raped to death, or or whatever.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's just uh the way it goes on, and that that's a barbaric hellhole, it really was.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: So the uh uh they call me back one day again, and this time a different guy came in, and he's uh I called him number two in my book because he seemed to like know everybody and everybody was uh instantly uh listening to what he is saying, and and he had the goons bring me upstairs, and I went to a completely different room.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: This one, uh again, no no lit no windows and just uh artificial light.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: And this is the funny one that um this guy walks up to me and says um he sits me in a chair, and there's three mullas in the in a and a table in front of me.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: Two on each side have a white turban, and one in the middle has a black turban.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, so the guy walks up and he I guess he introduces himself.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: He's speaking half farse, half English, and saying that uh, you know, that uh this is Islamic uh Sharia law trial and that I'm going to go on on trial for uh for shooting Iranians.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, uh, what do you mean go on trial?
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: I said, yeah, and it's a and then he introduces himself more or less to be my interpreter slash lawyer.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: I said, well, you know, what are you talking about?
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: And when he told me that the the charges were, you know, shooting Iranians, you know, uh killing them, etc.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: etc.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: Everything had that happened over at the embassy.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: I started to realize these guys know what happened on the embassy.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: How much do they really see?
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's no videos or anything back there.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: What did they really see?
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I said, how's this gonna work?
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: And basically, what it came down to is a 30-minute murder trial.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: They just accused me of shooting the Iranians.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: They read that the they read the charges out in Farsi.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: This guy translated them over, and I just got tired of being intimidated, and I didn't give a shit anymore to Terry.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't, I just I try to stand up, you know, and lean on the table.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: I I parked my hands right in front of them, and I and I I I didn't cuss them, but I let them know in the tone of my voice that I didn't recognize this this uh this tribal council, whatever it is, this trial.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: I said, you don't have any power or authority over me.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: And we went on and on and on.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: I said, you know, I even uh degraded them, belittled them for them, guys, taking the laws into your own hands.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: I said, you come come in here and you have uh supposed to be holy men.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: You're supposed to be having, you know, representing, you know, your your God and your religion.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: I said, and then you treat people like this?
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: I said, your really your revolutionary religion here, or r religious revolution is not gonna last very long at all.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: I said it's gonna fall apart, and then in a few months, maybe in a few decades, your ass is gonna be in this pr in this position.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: I said, and you'll lose everything you work for.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know where I got that from, man.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: I just I felt like a like a Perry Mason, you know, my own private attorney.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it just went on and on for a few minutes.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: And they accused me.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I I challenge you or this court to show me any any any photographs of the dead bodies.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: Bring the dead bodies in here.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: Let me see the witnesses, what evidence you have against me.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: You've got this accusations out of nowhere.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: And they they took back and, you know, they were talking to each other, and I guess I I struck a nerve or something because he said something to Farsi to the guy, and he got hold of the goons and they brought me back downstairs.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, um I told Abdal when I got back down in my room uh or my cell, he asked what happened, and I said, uh told him, Hey, look, you know, I was on trial for, you know, and he asked me about the trial, and I told him what the mullets were and he goes uh Mr.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: Ken is as uh it's not very good.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: He said, uh, you were on trial.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, if they find you guilty, you you'll probably be shot.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Well, I know everyone's been th been beating me and threatening me with everything, and and I've seen what they do to their own people, so I mean, you know, they wait another day or so, I'm probably gonna be dead anyway.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so you know, what what what difference is it?
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: So we ended up with that and uh again, pass out some more boiled camel meat or whatever the hell they can they they give you for dinner, and then uh I would call it the next day 'cause it's well you just fall asleep and you wake up.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: And uh number two came back down and he's asking where I was and I could hear him bannered around and he come in and he said uh you know he came in with the two goons and he's saying that the uh the mullahs have found the evidence and the answers to all my questions.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: And he said the trial will not resume.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they have all the evidence and answers they need.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: I said, You have been found guilty.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Okay, what's that mean?
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: He says, uh you'll be executed.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Yeah, right.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, How?
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: How's that gonna?
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I I mean I really it was incredulous.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: You got to a point where there's so much despair, Terry, you just don't care.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: You say, Oh yeah, big, you know, big freaking deal.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: What do you got going for me?
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you just it's it's disbelief, is there's a disconnect with with reality and what what you're hearing is saying.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: And he's saying, Maybe tomorrow, we don't know, but you'll be shot.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: Non nonchalantly just walks out like nothing.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: What customer service?
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's when it hit me.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's when it really hit me and I realized when I laid back down and Abdal understood what was being said and he explained it far seat to some of the other guys and they all just shook their head and that that's where that's where you know you gotta you gotta come to come to Jesus meeting literally and say whatever your faith is, whatever you you you realize, you know.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: You make your peace with God and you say, You've been not that I haven't been talking to him all the time, you know, asking questions, asking, you know, for uh relief from pain, please no more torture.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I don't want to watch anymore, I sure hell damn don't want to go through anymore.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I'm just barely holding on to this.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where you feel the little voice inside.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: I guess it's to me it's it's the uh spiritual realization is that you know, when you got God talking to your when you talk to him personally, it's actually from the Christian point of view, you know, you're talking talking to or communicating with the Holy Spirit, and you're saying, you know, you you're talking with him and you're you're clearing your conscience and your soul.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: Not that I had any any real fear of of death, honest to God, I I don't remember having it back then.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I've gone over this a hundred times with with with the book and with my notes and with my my dreams, my psychiatrists, everybody.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: It that wasn't what was most annoying to me.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: The most of the thing at first was, you know, what's it gonna be like?
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: Are they gonna put a bullet in my head?
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I said, I guess they take you to the top of this, you know, on the roof or something, and uh, you know, they're gonna shoot you with, you know, r uh rifles and you know, are they gonna be a good shot?
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: Are they gonna make a m fucking mess out of it, you know?
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean just all bizarre kind of shit going through your head.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: And and I just said it's uh you know, it's whether they shoot me or not, I'm probably not gonna live through this anymore.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: I said, you know, my blood, my my I'm septic, I can't even see straight, my vision's going, I can't get it, you know, uh uh medically I'm just gonna be, you know, a mess.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: And they're not going to ever give me anything.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, to help out.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I can understand is that like Abdallah told me, he says that they tried to turn you, they tried to buy you, they tried to threaten you, they found out and convinced you, or they're convinced who you were, and now the only thing for them is to be a victor, is that they're going to they're gonna they're going to execute you and then drag you through the streets or put you on TV and you know, your body, and uh that's what bothered me right there.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: Then I realized what Abdal was saying is that I had no say so after I after I was dead and gone.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, a bullet's gonna rip through me, whatever, they're gonna put ten more in my head, make a make an ugly mess out of me.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: No big deal.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: But whatever they put me on television and, you know, for the revolution, for their control, to say, look, you know, we got this commando that, you know, shot shot up up the embassy and shot Iranians and whatever, and we he was put on trial, and you know, Allah has found him guilty, whatever they wanted, they wanted to play that out.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: The bottom line is if they if they were to accuse me of horrible crimes, raping babies or or or doing something, being a murderer, or or any type of heinous crime that they wanted to throw on me, like they did in Vietnam, the pilots that had to get captured, they didn't treat them like prisoners of war.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: They treat him like criminals, bombing schools, bombing villages, you know, murderers, you know, uh from their planes.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't like that, you know.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what really bothered me the most, Terry, is that whatever they said about me, if they ever did find my body, right?
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure that they're just gonna shoot me and and quite be quiet about it.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh hell no, they're gonna get their they're gonna get their mileage out of me on on the media mileage.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: Gonna make them look good, look more powerful, have more control, more fear.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: But if they say things like that, then that's something my family has to live with.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that the Krause name has to, you know, defend.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um the government, the United States government has to come up there and try to bury that or to clear it if they can.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_01: The traditions in the Marine Corps and whatever they said I was a coward or you know that I was uh you know, uh someone that was uh you know raping people in prison and you know, or whatever.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_01: Imagine everything you could think that would be horrifying.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: It'd be left to the Marine Corps, the United States government, my country, and my family to live out live through.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what my prayer was to God.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, look, we made this deal, remember?
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: Lord, me and my Marines for the other twenty-two, my life for theirs.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm ready to do uh pony up and uh pay my end of the bargain.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I the biggest failure so far has been not counting the heads of the people we had that was in my charge in the caravan side restaurant.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: We counted them when we came in, we knew the exact number of people that were there.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: And when they went out the back door, I didn't give the corporal direction to count 'em.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: You wouldn't think so.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, with all the ta with all the chaos and shooting and everything going on and being overwhelmed, you just say count the bodies that went out.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: You wouldn't think anybody'd be hit left behind, would you Terry?
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: You'd think that door opened and be rats getting off a ship.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that's it didn't even cross my mind, let alone be an assumption, you know?
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's a presumption.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: And just to this day, when I realize I should have had a headcount, they all out, and they go, Yeah.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody that was there, they didn't check the if they had had check checked the body count, they would have known they were one short.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_01: And they would have found Menace before they kicked that door in.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I failed him.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: Till this day.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: He died in my arms because I failed a count for his body.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_01: And now this is what the last thing I'm thinking of before I get executed.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm Don't let it happen again, Lord.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: I said, if that's the price tag I had to put on it, so be it.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: Twenty for one.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's gonna be for me.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I said, uh I'd appreciate it if they uh shoot straight, don't make a mess of it.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's only gonna hurt for a few seconds.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_01: I said, and I don't care what they do with the body after that, but don't let them lie about me.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_01: Don't let it embarrass me.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_01: And don't make it any tougher on on the people that have to wear the badge and the honor of being called a Marine.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that was it.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh you know, I I just waited for him to come for me and I fell asleep or passed out again and uh I remember Abel coming up and waking me up and you know, shaking me.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_01: He says, I remember him calling me sergeant.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_01: First time he ever called me sergeant that I remember.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_01: He said, Sergeant, sergeant, they come for you.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Oh, it's about time.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you get a little bit of levity there.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_01: And they had four goons with him this time, and uh number two was there and saying, You f really, four of you?
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_01: I I couldn't fight you I couldn't fight you a week ago or however long ago I was when I was in here.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Oh sure, you know, I said, No, it just took that many to uh actually drag me, you know, down the hallway.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_01: Not that I was fighting, I just couldn't walk.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_01: I was I just drug just drugged my feet along like like uh you know, th they they were they were numb.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_01: They weren't working.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_01: The saving coccyck bone was you know, adjusted out of place.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_01: The toe was pointing in any direction, I don't even remember which direction was it was it wasn't getting along with the other toes, that's for sure.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so they got me up the kept walking me up the steps, and then we went down a different hallway that I don't remember ever being down before.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_01: And we went upstairs and I started to smell fresh air, cooler air, much cooler air.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it's it's fresher air, and I was wonder what that was.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, we're walking down this hallway and we get down to uh a set of gates, gated doors.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_01: They open those up, lock them behind us, and these stairwells now look like something you see aboard a ship.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_01: If you've ever been aboard a ship, a cruise ship or anything, the kind of ships uh the kind of steps, they're gray and they were steel, and they were looked like utility steps.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_01: They weren't something inside a regular, you know, stone or wooden steps.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I could look up and I could see the the top of the the uh top of the steps to the bottom of the door, just a little light coming in, a little sunlight.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_01: First glimpse of sunlight I've had been had no no.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I look at it and I'm saying, oh, and it and it's chilly, it's cold.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's been cold all the time.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, so these two these two guys are telling me trying to get me up these steps, and it's almost impossible because I'm holding it, holding on to the rail, pulling up with one end my my I have to lean on it on a on a broken toe foot on the side, right?
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: But then counter it with the ribs and taking a breath.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean it took it took it's taken a minute to two minutes to each and every step to get up there.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was agonizingly slow, and these guys were running out of patience.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm saying, you know, what the hell's wrong with you guys?
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're gonna get me here in a minute.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: What the hell?
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I know I'm headed towards the roof because I can see the light, you know.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, we got about halfway up them steps, and number two comes running back down the hallway, and uh um he's screaming and yelling, and he's opened the gate, you know, and got the got the keys to open the gate, and him, he's talking with the guy that's holding me, and they're arguing back and forth, and ain't far see.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought they're gonna get into a fist, you know, a fist fight.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Well, keep me out of it because I can barely hold myself up on the stairwell, and one of them's got to hold me.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: So if you guys are gonna get into it, you know, um, it's gonna be bad luck for me.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna fall down these freaking steps.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, anyway, number two went out on the argument, and they took me back down the steps and drug me back down, literally drug me back down that hallway, and we turned right and we went up uh up uh above the ground, above ground for once and again, I don't know how long.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_01: And uh uh it started, it was warm and it was it smelled like an office.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_01: It smelled like it didn't smell uh it didn't smell nasty at all.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: It smelled, it smelled nice, it smelled like a shopping center or something, you know.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was nice.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then I realized that once we went through another set of doors, we were in an administrative area.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I could see when I walked past these offices, there was people milling around, all males, I didn't see any females.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_01: I could see that walking past a uh uh uh an office, I could look out, I could see a window.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Oh my god, sunlight for the first time, and it really kind of hurt my eyes.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, the the brighter lights that were there was was a to was was tough on my eyes.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_01: But when I looked at and seen the sunlight, I said, Oh my god, sunlight, you know, where the hell are we going?
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Oh, I g and here I'm thinking, they're not gonna take me on the route, you know, they're gonna take me somewhere else to get shot.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_01: They don't want me being shot with the same guys up there for I don't know what reason.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: Stupid things in my head, like, you know, it was a taboo, or maybe I don't deserve to die with the same of these people, or they maybe wanted to uh make a spectacle of it.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh video it or something.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's my you know, you know, video back at that time, make a film of it, you know.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, up until this time, whenever they were interrogating people, um, there was never uh a scribe in there writing down whatever I would have told them.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_01: I guess I would have intentionally wanted to tell them anything, any secrets or anything I had.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_01: They would have probably gone and had to get somebody, you know.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, so the uh so then uh they they bring me over to the uh an office and it's a regular sitting office, like what you're sitting in right there.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, there's a desk and a phone and and a calendar and all the stuff that you normally see.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, they they put me in this in this chair.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: I sat in this chair and I'm almost falling over, you know, onto the desk to no pass out.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_01: And uh uh the guys left.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_01: They left me sitting there by myself, and I said, God, there's a there's a a a pair of scissors here and a pen and a phone.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I got weapons.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't even pick the pen up, I was so weak.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_01: But normally any other time, you know, if I had been here, again, I don't know how long, how much earlier, I could have uh used those things as, you know, as a weapon and fought, you know, fought.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: These are all the bizarre things that go on in your mind.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then these two guys walk in in suits.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_01: One's in a brown suit, one's in like a black suit.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Oh God, not another set of these bastards.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I'm sick and tired of you noise, you know.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_01: And they come in, they introduce themselves, um, their names, whatever.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_01: One had a German accent, one had a French accent.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_01: And they introduced themselves as, you know, members of the uh International Red Cross.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Oh yeah, sure you are.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: Sure you are.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_01: Kiss my ass.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm tired of it.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_01: You just had me seconds ago thinking minutes ago I'm gonna be executed, I'm walking to my death.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: Now I can read back in here.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_01: Said, have some goddamn decency.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: Quit messing with my head.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_01: You've already broken me, you've already got me down to where I'm just what do you want me to do?
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_01: Beg for the fucking bullet?
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_01: Is that what you want?
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_01: You want I'll get on my hands and knees now.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'll beg for the bullet.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_01: I know what's coming.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_01: Just stop torturing me, will you?
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, no, they show me their credentials and they said you're from the International Red Cross.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_01: And uh He said, the uh Iranians we're here to uh turn you back over to the uh to the American embassy.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: And just for that glint of hope, one second, he went, What?
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_01: Then yes.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_01: He says he showed me his credentials and everything.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_01: What happens is that the Iranians, okay, decided not to execute me, as they had been putting on newspaper.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_01: I have the newspaper articles, the originals, not copies, the originals, hermetically sealed, you can read them.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I show them to you in the book, and it says, it actually says, Amir Entezam, the uh prime minister at the time, the foreign minister, had actually said that I will go on trial uh for shooting, and if I'm found guilty, I'll be condemned to death.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I was.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_01: I was found guilty, and I was on Rafatwa.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_01: And now I'm sitting there thinking, he says, is uh the Iranians now are using me as a tool for PR.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_01: They're not going to execute me because it's not gonna be in their best of interest.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh now the embassy now knows where I am.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_01: Fast track back.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_01: Remember the British guy comes in, takes the picture, he puts it in the newspaper, it goes on the radio.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_01: There's the American that was attacked, and at the embassy was wounded and taken over, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_01: Embassy, the embassy at people see who that is.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_01: Now they go over to the hospital and said, Where's the Marine?
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, we don't know where he is.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_01: We can't see him.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_01: Remember the hood that he put on me?
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody saw the, no, nobody saw the uh this guy, my face, leaving there, right?
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Oh, okay.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_01: So they go looking for me.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_01: They get this picture, they go, here he was.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_01: They got a picture of me, they got a picture of Susan, they got a picture of another Iranian that was there, um, that works there.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_01: I said, We know he was here, and that's where they started squeezing him.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what kind of pressure.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_01: I never got to talk to people in the State Department about that.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_01: But they put the pressure on him to find out where he had been taken.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe they talked to people behind closed doors.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_01: They found out I was in avian prison, especially since the number two guy, you ready for this one?
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_01: The number two guy, Ali Khamani, who President Trump just bombed the shit out of Friday, February 27th, over 28.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_01: He was the president of the regime now, along with about two dozen of his henchmen, got bombed and killed.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_01: I got phone calls for the whole weekend, 27, 28 of February, saying, Ken, did you realize who this?
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_01: He's the Ayatollah Ruhollo Khomeini was the Imam Ayatollah, the head, spiritual leader, 80-something years old.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_01: He was everything everybody is following, but that's just the titular head.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_01: The real one was Ali Khamani, who was the number two guy.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_01: He was the one signing my death warrant and signing all the warrants and running the uh execution squad over there at the Avon prison.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_01: How about that?
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_01: He signed my death warrant, and now I outlived him.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_01: How about that one, baby?
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_01: Huh?
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I stayed drunk 27, 28 February this year, and proud, damn proud of it.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_01: So at that point in there, they had said, this is not speculation, this is what I I didn't know at the time.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_01: What we found out later on is that the the two guys that said, no, it's better somehow that they convince them to the Iranians to turn me over that regime to turn me over to International Red Cross, the PR, the international uh, you know, uh look that you know they're gonna give uh that they are going to be so sympathetic or empathetic, et cetera, et cetera, and that they're gonna be compassionate, you know, towards me, even though you know I'm under a fatwa, you know, of death.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_01: Makes them look good and they get more mileage out of it positive wise than they do if they execute me and drag me through the street naked.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like what happened with our ambassador um in Benghazi, Christopher uh Fox, I believe his name was.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_01: Christopher Stevens.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, so uh, you know, I'm looking at him and I'm I'm sitting here and I'm saying, uh, this can't be real.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_01: I maybe I I just got shot.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_01: I know I've been shot and I'm dead, and this is a dream.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's not real.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh your mind can't get wrapped around it.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm biting the side of my lips, I'm pinching myself, you know.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_01: If it wasn't for so much other pain in my body, I said that's the only thing, only thing that kept me in the twilight zone of realizing I'm not dead, but I don't know think if I'm alive either.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what the hell I am.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_01: And they said, Oh, right with you.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_01: And they they walked out, and I just sat there and I said, Oh, is this more torture?
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_01: Are they just, you know, you can't think of anything.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_01: You your mind's just going, and uh so I look back, I sit back in a chair and I look out, and I see this guy about 50 feet away in the hallway.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh his back is towards me, or he's he's slightly canted, and I'm looking at him and I'm saying, that guy looks familiar.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_01: I can't make him out.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_01: And as he turns around, he's not looking in the office directly at me, but he's looking my direction, and I'm uh I guess in his preferral view.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm looking at him saying, Am I hallucinating?
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I can't see very well with the light in here anyway, and I'm looking at him, and he then he catches me and he and he looks at me and he he gestures and he starts walking over towards me.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_01: And as he's walking towards me, he's saying, I'm saying, ah, that's uh God, that guy looks familiar.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_01: He gets just about near the door and I look at him.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_01: My eyeballs get big like this.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, You're alive! And he says, You're alive.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's Jack Schellenberger, his political officer.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_01: Same guy that found me or picked me up at the airport, still looking for my bags and told me how bad I was dressed when I came to Maribot airport.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_01: What's the freaking odds of that?
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I look at him and I said, Jack, Jack Schellenberger.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, Kenny, God, you look like shit.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Is it really you?
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_01: Is it really you?
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I tried to get up to get to to get towards him, and I fell forward.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, my rib wouldn't hold, my butt wouldn't hold, I mean, nothing would nothing would hold me up, my toe, anything.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I fell into his arms and he catching me and he went down on one knee, and he's holding me, and I'm holding him, and I'm hugging him, and I'm crying.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_01: And he says, uh, we're here to take you home, Ken.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_01: I said, home.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_01: He said, Yeah, all the way home.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I still didn't believe it.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Let me smell you.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_01: Let me smell you.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_01: I I couldn't, I was holding the guy, and I just I knew if I could smell, I thought if I could smell cologne or smell something that smelled American.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_01: Smelled real.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, No, Ken, we're gonna take you home.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_01: All the way home.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, he helped me up and the other guys helped me up, and they came in, they gave me a change of clothes, they, you know, cleaned up cleaned me up a little bit, gave me a shoe, and and they said, sorry that they're so big, you know, the the the shoes that they gave me.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_01: I said, No, that's good.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_01: He says, the toes are fitting a normal, normal shoe anyway.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm glad it's a little bigger.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, they helped me out to the the the front the front and main lobby doors, and I remember looking back and everybody's just staring at me.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I walked out and then there was an outer vegetable area, and then they had steel doors that open.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_01: And and uh it was so bright I couldn't even see.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the sun that was there, it was sometime during the day, maybe two or three o'clock in the afternoon, and it was just so bright I couldn't see anything.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Hold me up, hold me up.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I can't see where I'm going.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I'm I'm blinded from the light.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_01: And my pupils were just so constricted, I could I just couldn't see what was going, and it hurt.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_01: Plus the emotion, I was just so over overwhelmed.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_01: And till this day, the fear that I had, Terry, the fear is that they're gonna, oh, I I d I just know they're gonna shoot me in the back, they shoot me in the back of the head, you know.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_01: I hope that doesn't shoot Jack and then these other two guys that are with me.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_01: And got us in this little Russian Pecon car, and Jack sits to my left, another guy uh sat to my right, don't know who he was.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_01: He had a driver and I guess he was a bodyguard anyway, and uh, you know, this uh I'm covering my eyes, and uh this guy puts a cassette, the old you know, cassette tapes in.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a story of a uh uh unstory, it was it was a song it was called Don't Let the Sun Catch You Crying by Jerry and the Pacemakers.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_01: His 60s song, you know, British, British group, I think.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_01: Until this day, I went when I got back home, I went and I said, I'm gonna find that song.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, it was the most amazing, weird song, and the at the time it's just so coincidental.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_01: And we just we drove off and I looked back at that shithole of of a man I never saw before.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I asked Jack and I said, uh, what happened?
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_01: I thought you were all these questions, and and he said, uh, we've been looking for you, we didn't know where you were.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_01: I said, How long have I gone?
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_01: He said, A week.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_01: I said, A week?
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_01: Just a week?
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_01: It feels like a month.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, The deprivation, he says, the torture, the pain, he says, the loss of time.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_01: I said, It's I I can't I can't even begin to explain it to you.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_01: Just a week, I said, What happened?
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Uh we're getting back we're going back to the embassy, the ambassador wants to see you and he's got some questions for you.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Well, I got a few for him too, you know.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'll bet.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: And he says, Yeah, and I'll bet.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so we got back to the embassy and we got there, and there was uh uh the Marines were there, but they weren't armed.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_01: The arms are they had disarmed the Marines, they were still doing whatever kind of security they're supposed to.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_01: But uh there was also armed guards, the the the Muheddin that looked just like the Fetayin that had attacked us.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think they're the same guys.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_01: You can't tell me they weren't.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um just a different command.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_01: Stood there and uh we got through the gate and uh went up uh towards where the uh uh chancery building was I could still see, you know, where it had been.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_01: I was true.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_01: I could see the uh the shots, the the the the bullet holes that were about 50 caliber in some of the steel um reinforced windows.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_01: And uh we drove over to the ambassador's house and uh Marine Guard opened the door and you know helped me out.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember him saying, Man, you go like shit.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_01: I said, You're about the third person told me that today, and I'm damn good, glad to hear it.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and uh, you know, so I you know they helped me in and uh the ambassador came in.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_01: He uh I remember that we went uh got a a doctor got a hold of me and you know went in and clean, you know, changed my clothes, cleaned up my wounds, sponge bathed me, and and we finally got down to uh try to eat some dinner at the table at the ambassador's house.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_01: He had some other um uh U.S.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_01: military.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_01: I could tell by their they were civilian clothes, but you could tell by just the way they carried themselves and their haircuts and stuff.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, maybe they weren't allowed to or weren't supposed to be wearing military uniforms, that's why they were civilians.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_01: And we went over basically what had happened and uh just a a short synopsis about what I'm telling you, who attacked and this and that and the other thing.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_01: Now, whether they didn't really actually know or were they bullshitting me, or whether that's what I need to know now for you know what's now, I don't need to know any special details.
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the cover story I got.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_01: And he had said that uh, you know, he says, uh, we didn't know where you were for a week.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_01: He says, uh once they found out they put they published your picture in the paper, and he gave me that picture, he says, here it is, here's an cayenne, and I had that paper, and the uh I said, Oh my god, and the Tehran Journal, that's me, right on a big picture on the on the front, and it says it, my picture.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then the next day two more came out, and they just got pictures of the Shah's I'd say the generals that were in charge of mostly uh they'd be the equivalent of our joint chiefs of staff, and it shows them being tortured and riddled with bullets, and they posted it.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_01: I had that.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_01: They posted it in the newspaper.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_01: This is your father, your your your your dad, your your your husband, your your and uh your brother, and they they it's it's just a bloody mess.
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I was in the same prison that they were convicted to by the same court.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just if they had taken any more time to get to me at A Ven prison, Jack Schellenberger, or if those guys were able to just pick me up and throw me over their shoulder, carry me up the steps to hurry me, I I wouldn't be here, but I'd have been executed.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's miracle number five.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, so we talked with the ambassador and uh I wanted to lay down, but I I couldn't sleep in a bed.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it's just uncomfortable, and I didn't like that the Marines weren't, you know, didn't have any weapons, and that the uh the same guys that had attacked us are now supposed to be guarding us.
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I was f I was freaked out.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I realized that they told me what the uh the severity and the seriousness of being under a fatwa was, and that they have 24 hours once they let me they turn me over to the International Red Cross, you know, and then the Red Cross turns us over back to take me home.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_01: He said, I got twenty-four hours to get me out.
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_01: They told the United States, or they were gonna um enforce the uh execution.
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_01: So uh they said uh you know uh I I it's weird because I slept in the closet in the ambassador's house.
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_01: I put the pick chair up against the door because I didn't trust anybody, and I'm so so so used to sitting sleeping in that position that I felt better that way.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's weird.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_01: I I can't explain why.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Psychiatrist got reasons for it.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it anyway, so the uh uh the uh one of the officers came up and got hold of me and I said, uh, you got a phone call.
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I got a phone call.
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Yeah, I just couldn't gone down here.
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_01: He brought me back downstairs.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Doctors had bandaged up everything up, and man, when they took that they took that bandage off of my stomach, it smelled so bad, and he had to clean it up.
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_01: I said, he says, You're about one step away from gangrene.
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_01: I said, You're nasty.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_01: And he says, You're gonna get some shots, and they says, uh, you know, whatever the frigy gave me and gave me some shots.
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, so they went down and they they put me at this little desk and they uh brought me a phone and plugged it in the wall.
• 1:10:40
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, says, Okay, the ambassador was there and two of his entourage was there, and he says, uh, they took the phone call and he said, Yes, yes, Mr.
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_01: President.
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_01: They hand me the phone.
• 1:10:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's President Carter.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_01: He says, and he he he covered the phone like this.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_01: He says, President Carter.
• 1:10:58
  SPEAKER_01: He said, Hello, is this Sergeant Krause?
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, Mr.
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_01: President.
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_01: You can tell it's his voice, and then nobody's gonna be bullshit about this.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_01: And he just uh we had about a 60-second conversation and said, Glad you're welcome, you know, you you're okay.
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, you know, I'm beat up, but I'm all right.
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm not gonna make make light of what's going on here.
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, Glad to see you, no, job well done, and we're gonna contact your mom and your family and tell them you're on your way home.
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_01: You'll be out of there in the morning.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, yes, sir, thank you.
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, three bags full, and we'll simplify, and that was it.
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_01: And he just, you know, welcomed me, you know, back to the embassy.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_01: I went back to sleep in the closet.
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_01: I woke up the next morning, and uh, there's a another iconic picture, and it's in the book.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_01: Got a picture of me uh at the airport, Maribat Airport, and you got guys on either side of me with weapons, and they're holding on to me, and they bringing me over to this this Mullah that's reading me the Riot Act, and uh it's it being interpreted.
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_01: And basically I was told that picture I have in several different newspapers that went around the world.
• 1:11:59
  SPEAKER_01: They said that it's uh I'm being evacuated out.
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_01: No, I was being deported.
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_01: I was being deported under a fatwa, and then if I ever returned to Iran, uh I could be executed on the spot, no questions asked, just ready to go.
• 1:12:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I told him, I said, you know, if I ever come back to this shithole, it'll be in a B-52.
• 1:12:19
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't know if the guy understood what I was saying, but he got the sarcasm, you know.
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he got the idea real quick.
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_01: So uh we boarded the plane, they helped me up the plane on the steps of the plane.
• 1:12:30
  SPEAKER_01: I sat there in that window just staring at the, you know, waiting for the the pushback, and the whole time I kept my finger right up against the window so they can they can see, like, yeah, you're number one too.
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's just I still couldn't believe that I was I was leaving.
• 1:12:43
  SPEAKER_01: I still couldn't believe that, you know, I was out of there.
• 1:12:45
  SPEAKER_01: It was just like hours ago, hours ago.
• 1:12:47
  SPEAKER_01: I was this is a dream.
• 1:12:49
  SPEAKER_01: I I I couldn't get it.
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_01: And we was uh I think it was a French aircraft, but it was a it was a I think it was a Pan Am flight.
• 1:12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, um the uh as we started rolling down the runway, you know, it's just I can't believe this is the kind of and the wheels took off, and as and you could feel when the when the wheels rotate under, you just and the wings start to you know pick up the the lift, and you're saying, Wow, I'm actually gonna leave here.
• 1:13:15
  SPEAKER_01: God.
• 1:13:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm laying over on my seat.
• 1:13:17
  SPEAKER_01: I open up the seat there and I lay down, and uh they had um all the stuff that he had given me, the newspapers and the things that wanted me to basically smuggle out of there, they were wrapped up in a in a sweater that I was supposed to be wearing, but I covered it up.
• 1:13:29
  SPEAKER_01: I and that that that picture in the uh in the Marabart airport of me being deported, you'll see it, it's up under my arm.
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_01: Thank God they didn't check it.
• 1:13:38
  SPEAKER_01: It kicked me out, and as the plane's taking off now, I I I fall asleep, and then I got uh I hear a little commotion or something a little while later, and uh, you know, I say, What's going on?
• 1:13:49
  SPEAKER_01: And there's some other people on the plane, and we're heading towards uh they say Wiesbaden, Germany, but I I I understood it to be Frankfurt, but Germany's Germany.
• 1:13:58
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, so uh there's some commotion going on, and I went, okay, what the heck was this?
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_01: And they were talking about pointing to the windows, and I overheard them and saying, There's Iranian jets on our wing, and I went, What?
• 1:14:11
  SPEAKER_01: And sure as shit, I look outside on both sides.
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_01: There's two F-4 phantoms on both wing tips of the plane.
• 1:14:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, close enough where you can see the pilot.
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_01: And oh my God.
• 1:14:21
  SPEAKER_01: And they got ordnance underneath.
• 1:14:22
  SPEAKER_01: They were, they were loaded, they were but they were bomb-heavy.
• 1:14:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I went, oh my god, they're gonna shoot us down.
• 1:14:28
  SPEAKER_01: First thing I think of, I'm not getting out of this alive again.
• 1:14:30
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna take me to the border and they're gonna shoot us down.
• 1:14:33
  SPEAKER_01: And oh, it was a mistake, you know?
• 1:14:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, friendly fire or whatever it's gonna be.
• 1:14:37
  SPEAKER_01: And who are you gonna hold accountable for?
• 1:14:38
  SPEAKER_01: Some pilot you can't ID?
• 1:14:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, would they, you know, blow a whole jet out of the sky?
• 1:14:43
  SPEAKER_01: In a heartbeat.
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_01: And just as we were looking at that thing, I started freaking out.
• 1:14:47
  SPEAKER_01: You could feel my heart beating.
• 1:14:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm saying, oh my God, it if they if they peel off and get up underneath, they're going for a missile shot, probably.
• 1:14:54
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I reckon I could be an air traffic controller, I could tell you, and F-4 Phantoms were American-made birds.
• 1:15:00
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, you can see a sparrow, you can see a sidewider, you know what they are.
• 1:15:03
  SPEAKER_01: And you went, oh fuck, they're gonna shoot us down.
• 1:15:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then just as they peel off, I think, oh, they're coming, they're going, you know, back in for you know for a missile shot on you.
• 1:15:12
  SPEAKER_01: And we're waiting, we're waiting, we're waiting, we're waiting.
• 1:15:14
  SPEAKER_01: And next thing you know, the pilot says, we have exited Iranian airspace, we have just entered Turkey, Turkish airspace, and he dipped the wings of the plane back and forth like that.
• 1:15:24
  SPEAKER_01: The place went bananas, man.
• 1:15:26
  SPEAKER_01: It was crazy.
• 1:15:27
  SPEAKER_01: The uh the uh the first female that I've seen in I don't know when uh was on the plane.
• 1:15:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh, we called them stewardesses back then, but now they're flight attendants.
• 1:15:37
  SPEAKER_01: And uh she went into the area where they had uh all those little bottles of liquor like that.
• 1:15:42
  SPEAKER_01: She was handing them out left, right, up and down.
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I I said, Yeah, I'd be glad to take some.
• 1:15:46
  SPEAKER_01: We toasted it.
• 1:15:48
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, I mean, I just that was the greatest feelings that up and say, is there any other way for them to traumatize me or to get to me and kill me today?
• 1:15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:15:58
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I I went to sleep and then you know woke up uh landing in Frankfurt, Germany.
• 1:16:04
  SPEAKER_01: Entourage that was there, and uh went over to see some more medical people and uh Marine the Marine contingent got me, they gave me a a a general briefing of what you know was gonna happen and that um the haircut cleaned me up and did their best to get me a uh a uniform and then the very next day, uh the February twenty-third, I think, would be um they flew me out on a C-141 Starlifter.
• 1:16:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I had a big long debriefing that you know probably have to leave that in the book for you because that was the that was the stuff that was semi-classified at the time.
• 1:16:41
  SPEAKER_01: Not confidential or secret or anything, but it was not for public dissemination either.
• 1:16:45
  SPEAKER_01: The correct type of shit.
• 1:16:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it explained what had happened, and I said, uh that's not what I remember, that's not what I say.
• 1:16:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's what you're going to remember, that's what you're going to see, and that's what you're going to talk about.
• 1:16:56
  SPEAKER_01: Got it?
• 1:16:56
  SPEAKER_01: Get it?
• 1:16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Good.
• 1:16:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, yeah.
• 1:16:59
  SPEAKER_01: So they told me, I said, look, man, uh, while you were there, here's what happened.
• 1:17:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, when you're there's gonna be a giant entourage at Andrews Air Force Base in Washington.
• 1:17:07
  SPEAKER_01: I said, the president said it's gonna be there, and you're gonna be given a medal, you're gonna be committing this and this and this.
• 1:17:13
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Whoa, whoa, whoa, time out.
• 1:17:15
  SPEAKER_01: What what what's all this shit about?
• 1:17:17
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, No.
• 1:17:18
  SPEAKER_01: He says, uh, he says, um, he says, you're gonna be, you know, uh decorated for you know what you went through and having a presence of mind to one for being shot, you know, and beat, and cut, and stabbed, you know.
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, that that'll be your purple heart.
• 1:17:33
  SPEAKER_01: You're probably gonna get a Navy accommodation battle for having a presence of mind to uh make a deal and sacrifice yourself for all those other people.
• 1:17:42
  SPEAKER_01: If you realized who they were, uh you could appreciate it.
• 1:17:45
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I I have an idea.
• 1:17:47
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, uh he g he read the entourage who's gonna be there.
• 1:17:50
  SPEAKER_01: I said, he can't believe it.
• 1:17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, when we landed, it was uh it was raining out there, and the the president had been called away.
• 1:17:56
  SPEAKER_01: He had been planned to go there.
• 1:17:58
  SPEAKER_01: So he had sent a uh Secretary of Def the Secretary of Defense, uh Secretary of the Navy, Graham Clater, uh the Commandant of the Marine Corps, uh Senator Robert Hines from Pennsylvania, Heinz Ketchup folks.
• 1:18:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he was our senator at the time, my mom and the uh whole entire Eighth and I Ban Corps, the President's own band, 200 man uh band and an honor guard.
• 1:18:21
  SPEAKER_01: And uh this colonel that was on a plane had been debriefing me, and he says, Here's what's gonna happen.
• 1:18:26
  SPEAKER_01: He says, You're going to uh you know walk down those steps.
• 1:18:29
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Your mom's gonna be down there, your people are gonna meet you and greet you.
• 1:18:32
  SPEAKER_01: He said, We understand.
• 1:18:34
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I'm not gonna be able to salute much.
• 1:18:35
  SPEAKER_01: I can't get my I can't get my arm up.
• 1:18:37
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I can't salute all these 20, 30 people that are gonna be laying down there.
• 1:18:41
  SPEAKER_01: He says, No.
• 1:18:41
  SPEAKER_01: He says, just uh just salute the flag.
• 1:18:44
  SPEAKER_01: I said, salute the the uh commandant.
• 1:18:46
  SPEAKER_01: He said the rest of them will be meet and greet and just shake and you know move on.
• 1:18:50
  SPEAKER_01: And we spent another hour and a half, you know, with the meet and greet and pin the medals on and I asked about the other Marines that were there, and I said, you know, it's just they they they're working on that.
• 1:19:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I kind of pressed them on it a little bit and was saying it's on a need-to-know basis.
• 1:19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Of course I don't need to know.
• 1:19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, we uh we finished up there in Washington and uh I was totally exhausted.
• 1:19:15
  SPEAKER_01: Terry, I couldn't I couldn't think, I couldn't do anything.
• 1:19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Senator Hines had his uh private jet, took my my mom and my my three sisters uh and we flew us back to the Naval Air Station, Willow Grove, Pennsylvania, which is the closest military base to our hometown, just a few miles away near Philadelphia.
• 1:19:31
  SPEAKER_01: And there was another entourage there and some more questions and photography sessions and then um had a police military escort all the way home.
• 1:19:39
  SPEAKER_01: Driving into the uh I I really couldn't call it home because it's uh I was my home was uh the Marine Corps, Nicosia, Cyprus was the last place I called home, you know.
• 1:19:49
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, but my mom and I live with my sisters, and you know, when they when they dumped me there, I said, Where else are you gonna be?
• 1:19:54
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Okay.
• 1:19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so uh the whirlwind of you know talking on the news, it was again a political year, an election year, and they were about to get their uh media mileage out of me.
• 1:20:09
  SPEAKER_01: So everybody, his brother and his dog that wanted to be seen with the new hero now, you know, it was uh it's a warm and fuzzy feeling, it really was.
• 1:20:17
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I mean I was I was assigned a a a PIO, uh public information officer, who's a f a grade, a field grade major, Vic Burlingame.
• 1:20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Shout out to him.
• 1:20:29
  SPEAKER_01: And uh wherever I went on uh talk shows or radio or TV shows or anything, he was right there.
• 1:20:35
  SPEAKER_01: He was saying all the questions that I could answer, some of the questions I can't answer.
• 1:20:39
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, I was still an active duty marine, they owned me.
• 1:20:43
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, that's uh that's uh that's the historical record part of it from there.
• 1:20:49
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I stayed in the Marine Corps for till 1982.
• 1:20:53
  SPEAKER_01: That put me eight years active in four re and then I went into the reserve for four years.
• 1:20:57
  SPEAKER_01: They disbanded the uh the uh reserve unit that I was in when I got out of the Marine Corps.
• 1:21:02
  SPEAKER_01: I went to uh Albuquerque, New Mexico.
• 1:21:04
  SPEAKER_01: It was a recon unit there, and then they disbanded that or actually moved it over to Amarillo, Texas, and I went to work for the Department of Energy as a nuclear courier, um, special weapons and tactics officer.
• 1:21:16
  SPEAKER_01: So uh, you know, I was wondering what where what I was gonna go, what I was gonna do, because I didn't uh I didn't want to go back into Marine Corps.
• 1:21:25
  SPEAKER_01: They said you weren't going back on embassy duty, but uh basically uh you know we could use you on recruiting or we maybe the drill field or I know at the time I said no.
• 1:21:35
  SPEAKER_01: I had above I had enough about, you know, the special operations type of programs.
• 1:21:40
  SPEAKER_01: I met my wife at that uh at the time and uh we just started a family, so you know, I said, look, you know, I'll I'll take the four years reserve and I said if I feel like it I'll come back in.
• 1:21:51
  SPEAKER_01: But uh I said I took a promotion and I said that's fine.
• 1:21:55
  SPEAKER_01: But uh I feel felt kind of robbed is that, you know, from the the point of my when I first wanted to be, like I said, a uh not a hero, but a leader.
• 1:22:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean to lead men in combat and uh you know bring them home, get the mission done.
• 1:22:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um I feel I got robbed from the opportunity, Terry.
• 1:22:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean that's what pushed me towards uh law enforcement.
• 1:22:14
  SPEAKER_01: So after I got out of the Rincorps, I've been another twenty-two years as a police officer here in Georgia and just retired it in twenty fifteen.
• 1:22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Your turn.
• 1:22:23
  SPEAKER_00: Once you got home, how long was your recovery?
• 1:22:26
  SPEAKER_00: I assume they let you have time at home with your parents at that point.
• 1:22:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh three months, and then I was assigned to the naval air station at Willow Grove, my backyard.
• 1:22:37
  SPEAKER_01: They asked me, said, look, you're not going back out on posts, you're too popular, you're a hot potato.
• 1:22:42
  SPEAKER_01: This is 1979, it's barely five years after Vietnam has fallen.
• 1:22:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um this is uh we haven't had any of the uh the uh the real heroes yet.
• 1:22:51
  SPEAKER_01: We haven't had Panama with Noriega, we hadn't had Grenada, we hadn't had a chance for America hasn't seen uh you know uh American hero per se, uh uniform uh in Vietnam that they liked.
• 1:23:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you they were baby killers and nobody nobody really loved them.
• 1:23:08
  SPEAKER_01: And nowadays it wasn't like they have today.
• 1:23:10
  SPEAKER_01: Proud of your service, thank you very much for your freedom.
• 1:23:12
  SPEAKER_01: They understand it now that we had it took what, half a million men and all the equipment back over there and kicked the shit out of Iran.
• 1:23:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean uh so damn insane.
• 1:23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:23:22
  SPEAKER_01: You got rid of a maniac like that, storing, you know, all kinds of weapons and stirring up shit in the Middle East.
• 1:23:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know.
• 1:23:28
  SPEAKER_01: So once the American people started to see that we had real leadership in the uh in the White House and in our Congress, and that there is evil in this world, and sometimes, sometimes, not all the time, and definitely I wish it was less, but sometimes violence is the answer.
• 1:23:47
  SPEAKER_01: Just take a look at that equ uh that that iconic picture of uh the men going ashore at D Day at Normandy.
• 1:23:54
  SPEAKER_01: Could it have been done any other way?
• 1:23:56
  SPEAKER_01: Was Hitler going to talk about any other way?
• 1:23:59
  SPEAKER_01: You bet your ass he wasn't.
• 1:24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes you just have to, you know, lace up the boots and stomp on the door.
• 1:24:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd rather them I'd rather us bring the fight to them and destroy their country and let them know what we're capable of rather than ever that ever happening here in America.
• 1:24:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've seen some of the worst places and after Iran and after a Middle Eastern type of revolutionary war.
• 1:24:23
  SPEAKER_01: I I can't go through that again and I don't want to go through it again, and I wish they would train people to know what they're going to have to go through if they ever get captured or put in the same position.
• 1:24:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you start to learn, you know, languages, and when we went to uh war with uh Iraq what was it, 1990?
• 1:24:42
  SPEAKER_01: You look at the map, we didn't even have maps.
• 1:24:44
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't even most people couldn't even find it on the newspaper, in the news.
• 1:24:48
  SPEAKER_01: They go, where's Iraq?
• 1:24:49
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't even find where Iraq was on the map for the most part.
• 1:24:51
  SPEAKER_01: Then in shortly after that, you got uh before that you got in 1980, Iran goes to war with Iraq, and now you go again, you got two more big countries.
• 1:25:00
  SPEAKER_01: One's all full of uh Russian NATO Russian uh Warsaw pack equipment, and then you got Iran holding our hostages over there, and they've got American equipment.
• 1:25:09
  SPEAKER_01: What a what a conjury.
• 1:25:12
  SPEAKER_01: What a problem.
• 1:25:13
  SPEAKER_01: And we've been having at it that troublemakers over there, that regime, not the people, not the people of Iran, that regime for 47 years.
• 1:25:22
  SPEAKER_01: They lie, they bullshit, and now they got new tactics that they don't they got the the uh the proxy people in there, you know, they use Hezbolla to uh you know satisfy their desires to want to destroy Israel, and they use them as a proxy to, you know, uh uh bankroll and train Hamas.
• 1:25:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, you know, you get rid of the regime, you shut down Hezbollah, Hamas doesn't get any money or guns, and now you might get some people in there, you know, to represent the Palestinians that can sit and talk.
• 1:25:56
  SPEAKER_01: And you're really gonna get some peace.
• 1:25:58
  SPEAKER_01: But as long as you got them murdering mullahs, the maniacal maniacs, you know, just stirring the pot all the time, Israel's getting along with Jordan, and Israel's getting along with Israel.
• 1:26:07
  SPEAKER_01: Every other country that wants to have peace with it, okay?
• 1:26:10
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to love them, you just gotta get along with them.
• 1:26:12
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 1:26:13
  SPEAKER_01: This regime cannot be allowed under any circumstances to develop nuclear weapons or weapons of mass destruction.
• 1:26:22
  SPEAKER_01: You see what they're doing to their own people, they're murdering them in the streets.
• 1:26:27
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen what they can do to their own people.
• 1:26:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay?
• 1:26:30
  SPEAKER_01: I've lived it, I've smelled it, I don't ever want to even think about it again.
• 1:26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay?
• 1:26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure that they don't get their hands on stuff that can make all our lives miserable.
• 1:26:42
  SPEAKER_01: You think the price of oil's now that they're gonna close the straight of her moves?
• 1:26:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
• 1:26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, well, they sit back and give them about ten years, and now they got a nuclear weapon, and they don't even have to close the straight of her moves.
• 1:26:53
  SPEAKER_01: They just say this or else we slaunch we launch scud missiles or uh ballistic missiles like they're launching now, or put one on a drone or something.
• 1:27:01
  SPEAKER_01: How hard's that gonna be?
• 1:27:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, bottom line, in intellectual-wise, when you look at it, I don't know if they're gonna come after us.
• 1:27:10
  SPEAKER_01: They'll definitely go after our allies.
• 1:27:12
  SPEAKER_01: And bottom line is Israel cannot afford that option.
• 1:27:16
  SPEAKER_01: So either we go in and take out this regime now, in my opinion, when they are down and out and on the ropes and we have allies, or you waiting ten years when they get strong again, and maybe have some backdoor help from uh the Russians or the Chinese, and they have their hands on nerve gas or nuclear material.
• 1:27:35
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 1:27:36
  SPEAKER_01: Then you explain it to your children and your grandchildren why they're living under that threat.
• 1:27:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's my take on it.
• 1:27:42
  SPEAKER_00: Most people don't have your perspective, nor do they obviously have your experience.
• 1:27:46
  SPEAKER_00: But it's something that they need to hear because it's only through the lens of somebody like you and the experiences that you unfortunately had to endure that we all get clarity on why some.
• 1:28:00
  SPEAKER_00: Something like Iran has to happen because if they're willing to do that to their own people, they'll have absolutely zero qualms about doing it to us.
• 1:28:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I like to say that I am English by birth and American by choice, and after sitting and hearing what you went through as a US Marine in service of your country, I don't think I've ever been prouder to be an American.
• 1:28:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know what else there is to say, honestly, with that.
• 1:28:35
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for your service.
• 1:28:38
  SPEAKER_00: I apologize on behalf of the rest of frickin' humanity that with House Sick and Twisted, there are parts of the world that are like that.
• 1:28:49
  SPEAKER_00: And we have to be grateful that through the service of individuals like you and other servicemen and women that we do not have to worry about that here for the most part.
• 1:29:00
  SPEAKER_00: But it can be difficult, I think, for people from the outside looking in to understand the justification for what is happening.
• 1:29:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it's only through hearing these types of experiences that we all get that type of clarity.
• 1:29:17
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Terry.
• 1:29:18
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate that.
• 1:29:19
  SPEAKER_01: And from my point of view, the feelings inside is that I use this as therapy.
• 1:29:23
  SPEAKER_01: I go over it again and again, and I I don't have to justify what I did.
• 1:29:29
  SPEAKER_01: It was my duty.
• 1:29:31
  SPEAKER_01: I don't look at it as a hero because there's some areas there that I failed.
• 1:29:35
  SPEAKER_01: Minacci was one of them.
• 1:29:37
  SPEAKER_01: But it has changed me in the areas where I become so anal about certain things is that when I have to count something again that I'm responsible for, money or I don't care what it is, I count it.
• 1:29:50
  SPEAKER_01: I double count it, I triple count it.
• 1:29:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it's when I when I worked as a uh detective, crime scene investigator, forensic detective, never lost a case, never even come close when it comes to uh evidence.
• 1:30:02
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if you want to lose a case because you're a you're a lazy district attorney or something, you know, you checked it out in Atlanta, they're full of them.
• 1:30:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, or if they just don't want to prosecute it, or if they want to make all kinds of deals, that's fine.
• 1:30:15
  SPEAKER_01: I have no say so in that.
• 1:30:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's above my pay grade.
• 1:30:18
  SPEAKER_01: But throughout my life, when it comes to being responsible, I take responsibility very, very seriously.
• 1:30:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because there was a day in my life and a moment that uh when Manashi stepped in front of me that I realized, you know, where my failure was and that it'll never happen again if I can remember that.
• 1:30:36
  SPEAKER_01: So whatever, whatever it took to uh bring me to my senses there, and sometimes uh that's what the uh circumstances and or the the the dear our dear Lord will sometimes show you that even though it was a for instance I was in so much pain with my toe and with my with my hip and my my sacred and coccyc bone, it was exactly that that slowed me down from climbing up those steps.
• 1:31:03
  SPEAKER_01: Another miracle six number six when you read the book and you sit there.
• 1:31:06
  SPEAKER_01: I said it's gonna make a heck of a movie.
• 1:31:08
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I know I got a script ready, and I'll you know, you get me a hungry producer, we're gonna make a lot of money with this, but it's gonna tell you um it's gonna not so much that we're looking for that, it's just get the get the story out that it's not just me.
• 1:31:22
  SPEAKER_01: I said I have friends in the Iranian-American countr um uh club here in America, and that we're fighting hard to get the notice to get, at least, if nothing else, the world to see what's going on over there, and that there's no way that they need to live like that.
• 1:31:36
  SPEAKER_01: The Iranian people, along with any country of their own people that want to live differently and pick and choose who they uh uh want to call as a religious leader or who they want to uh you know practice their religion should be their choice and not mandatory like some kind of slave.
• 1:31:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't wish that upon anybody, and if there's anything I can do to help out or or give a talk about it, I never charge any money.
• 1:32:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's always therapy for me.
• 1:32:05
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it might cost you a lunch or a couple of drinks, but that's the most I've ever asked for anything.
• 1:32:09
  SPEAKER_01: But thank you because it's therapy for me, it reminds me just what I went through, and that there's no reason whatsoever to ever doubt the good Lord's there.
• 1:32:20
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes when you understand why it could it be, what's this for?
• 1:32:24
  SPEAKER_01: He couldn't explain it to me.
• 1:32:25
  SPEAKER_01: But now later on you say, Thank God for your broken toe, thank God for some of the things that you went through, because it would have gone the other way.
• 1:32:33
  SPEAKER_01: It was horrible.
• 1:32:34
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, always look up, always, always have faith.
• 1:32:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, when there was there was I had lost hope.
• 1:32:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I had basically given up hope.
• 1:32:43
  SPEAKER_01: For every rational, logical reason, I gave up hope.
• 1:32:46
  SPEAKER_01: But deep inside, I wouldn't want to quit.
• 1:32:50
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't want it.
• 1:32:51
  SPEAKER_01: I just wanted one little spark of maybe somebody's gonna come in here and find me, maybe somehow.
• 1:32:57
  SPEAKER_01: But no matter what, that I was gonna take that to my grave with me.
• 1:33:01
  SPEAKER_01: So don't ever give up.
• 1:33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Find something to believe in and work hard for it.
• 1:33:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's why you got oxygen and that's why you're breathing on this planet.
• 1:33:07
  SPEAKER_01: You have a reason to live, and you have a reason to share other things to help other people want to live.
• 1:33:14
  SPEAKER_00: Before we started the interview, that your book, A Marine in Dura's Hell, is available on Amazon for those that would like to read it, and I think everybody should read it and give you an entirely different perspective on life and the struggles that you might be facing.
• 1:33:30
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for today and for sharing your journey.
• 1:33:34
  SPEAKER_00: Incredibly powerful.
• 1:33:36
  SPEAKER_00: And really, there are no other words.
• 1:33:39
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for joining in today and listening to this episode.
• 1:33:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh support the channel, like, share, subscribe.
• 1:33:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great way to support us and keep us bringing you the guests that you want to hear from for now.
• 1:33:51
  SPEAKER_00: Stay safe, be thankful for where you live, and I'll see you in the next episode.
• 1:33:56
  SPEAKER_00: Cheers.
• 1:33:57
  SPEAKER_00: Take care, Terry.
• 1:33:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:33:59
  SPEAKER_01: God bless.
• 1:34:00
  SPEAKER_01: Semprify.
• 1:34:01
  SPEAKER_01: Semperfy, brother.