Latest / Uncensored Objection / Live: Guy Kawasaki and Mitch Jackson

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Live: Guy Kawasaki and Mitch Jackson · Uncensored Objection

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_02: And by the way, everybody, thanks for joining.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_02: Share this out.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: We're going to dive in.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: I've got Guy Kawasaki live,
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: and we're going to dive in and talk about what Silicon Valley was like back in
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: the day.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: Has it changed?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: Fast forward to today.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: We're going to dabble into AI and security and privacy.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: Guy's book about the Signal app,
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: my book about privacy in America,
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: and really go out of our way to try to answer all of your questions, which,
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: by the way,
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: should we tell them that we're kind of newbies when it comes to live streaming
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: on Substack, Guy?
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: Because I'm looking at the live chat, but I'm hoping we can see the questions, too.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: I see all the people coming in.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Mitch, you know, I don't think we need to tell people we're clueless.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's going to be fairly obvious, so...
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I didn't use the word clueless,
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: but I will say you wrote something this morning on your Substack.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the reasons Guy and I wanted to jump on is figure out the live video.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: And we've been doing this for years.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: So this is really nothing new.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: He's just being humble.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just being silly.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: But, you know, there's some different switches and bells and whistles.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: But Guy,
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: you said something this morning on your Substack and everybody needs to connect
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: with Guy on his Substack.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: And you talked about Understanding and appreciating what AI is bringing to the table right now.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: And for those individuals who are not learning on a daily basis how to leverage
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: and how it works and how it can make your life better and faster and more efficient.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: For example, you're living back in 1994 and 1995 with something we called the World Wide Web.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: And the reason I'm bringing this up,
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: Guy, is guess when we put up our first website at the law firm?
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: Seriously.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, 2000.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: 94, 95.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: If you use the Wayback Machine, it'll take you to a site back in 95.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I happen to know we were on there late 94, so I don't know why it doesn't show.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: But nobody was on it back then.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Can I interrupt and ask a real dumb question?
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: If I just copy the link in my Chrome browser,
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: is that the link I can send to people to watch this now?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: Is it that simple?
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think so.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's a really good question.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe if there's anyone in the audience that can answer
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: that question that's got Substack down,
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: I know I shared this in my Substack Notes guy.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example,
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: if you open up another tab and go to my Uncensored Objection Substack,
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: let's just
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: let it rip.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it'll, you know, just reshare it.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, we'll just let it rip.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: But it's interesting.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I would like someone to first ask a question in the chat.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: I want to make sure I can see your questions while Guy and I are speaking.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: But Guy, let's go back a little bit to your early years in Silicon Valley.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: What was it like?
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: What was the mindset back then?
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: And have you seen it shift?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: I already know the answer to this question.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: Have you seen it shift fast forward to today?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, I started in Silicon Valley in 1983, about four months before Macintosh shipped.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, we were a merry band of pirates in the Macintosh division.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: We worked for, you know, the one and only Steve Jobs.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: Working on Macintosh was a great privilege for me.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: It is a very, if not the most formative experience in my life.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know,
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: we were literally on a mission from God,
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: God being Steve Jobs,
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: that we would create a computer that would improve people's lives
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: by improving their creativity and productivity.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: The epic enemy that we were fighting was IBM...
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: George Orwell, you know, fascism, 1984, all that.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: So we looked at Macintosh as a symbol and a tool of democracy,
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: of free thinking, of meritocracy, you know, all the good stuff.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, we really thought we were making the world a better place.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: It was...
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: It is, you know,
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: I hope everybody has a chance to be involved with something like that that,
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: you know, has such impact.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: It, I think it's safe to say that things might have changed a little bit.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: I know when I was in college.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: When I was in Amsterdam,
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: I was telling you,
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: when we flew over on a family trip,
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: I was kind of done with social after the election.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: And watching the inauguration and all the tech bros on stage and in the audience,
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: I needed to jump back on and do what everyone sees me doing here on Substack.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: But back then,
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: I want everyone to know, Guy,
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: and put this into context,
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: you're an author,
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: you're a venture capitalist, you are the chief evangelist at Canva.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: Your podcast, Remarkable People.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: You've had some of the most interesting human beings on the planet on your podcast,
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: including Jane Goodall,
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: my friend,
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: Haben Girma,
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: who, by the way, everybody, first blind deaf graduated Harvard Law School.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, how do you do that, right?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, you've been around the block when it comes to these topics.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: Would those individuals you got to know and rub elbows with and work with back in
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: the day,
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: what would they think about what's happening right now, just generally speaking?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, I have asked this question of myself many times.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: If Steve Jobs were alive right now, would he be on that inauguration stage?
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Would he have donated a million dollars to the inauguration stage?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: on the day that a guy is killed in Minnesota,
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: would he have gone to the Grand Open of Melania at Mar-a-Lago?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: And fingers crossed, I hope the answer is a big, fat no.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: But you know what?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: You never know because...
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, when I saw those clowns on that stage and it's like Bezos and Zuckerberg
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: and I don't know, whatever the guy's name is from Google.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: But the most disappointing one,
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: the most surprising one, and the most depressing one is Tim Cook.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: I cannot understand how he could do that.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Now, you could make the case that he has to suck up to Donald Trump so
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: that there's not tariffs on Apple Parts and Apple phones.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so his fiduciary duty is to the shareholders of Apple.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: So he's got to suck it up even though he's a gay man and go support Donald Trump.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: I guess you could make that case.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: On the other hand...
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: I would say that if you are one of the richest people in the world running one of
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: the most successful companies in the world,
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: if you can't take the high road and do what's right, who the hell can?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you think a field worker in Fresno is going to stand up to ICE,
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: but Tim Cook cannot stand up to Donald Trump?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what freaking alternate universe are you living in?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I have this theory that whenever people do something
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: that other people find distasteful,
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: like what I just described,
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: the justification is,
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: well, my fiduciary responsibility is to the shareholders of Apple.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: I have to be apolitical.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: I have to suck up to everybody I can because my shareholder responsibility
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what?
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think that is a crock of shit because I think that if you look at
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: in just plain dollars and cents, who gives the most money to Apple?
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: Is it the shareholders or is it the customers?
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: So if you look at the revenue from all the customers,
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: I guarantee you it exceeds all the stock purchase prices of every investor.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I You could make a case if you're talking about fiduciary responsibility.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Your fiduciary responsibility is to customers first,
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: maybe employees second because they empower everything done.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say way at the bottom of the list is to my shareholders.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: Now, nobody in corporate finance is going to agree with that.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: You'd be on the board of directors for less than a year.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: Less than a second, yeah.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it's interesting.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if you look at the Apple Board of Directors,
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: there's no, like, real user of computers there, right?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's all private equity and stuff like that.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, like, just let me into that Board of Directors meeting.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: And the first meeting I'd go, I'd say, okay, so this is an AirTag.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm giving every one of you an AirTag.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm giving you a CR2032 batteries.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: And just...
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Bear with me for a second.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, everybody, first of all, get your AirTag.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: Here's the batteries.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: I want to watch you all change your batteries.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: Just go ahead.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: Go ahead.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'll just watch you all change the batteries on this AirTag.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then this is for extra credit.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Now,
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: I want to see you attach your AirTag to the thing that you're most likely to put
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: the AirTag on, which is your keychain.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, guy, there's nothing to hook the keychain to.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, you got to buy a $29 little bracket to put the keychain and the AirTag together.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: So like,
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: like who in Apple said,
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: we got to make it so that you got to lick your finger to change the battery.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then you got to go buy a little thing so that you can put the AirTag inside that
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: so you can attach your keychain to like,
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: you know, this ain't the end of the universe.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: But like, what?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: What are you thinking?
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: And now you could tell me, right, so AirTag 1, we blew it, guy.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: But AirTag 2,
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: by AirTag 2,
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: wouldn't you think they would say, hmm,
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: my mother and my father and my sister and my brother, they can't change batteries.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we should make it easier to change batteries.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: But no, AirTag 2.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then you really got me sorted, Mitch.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: So now my last thing...
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: I can see I scratched an
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: inch here.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: My last thing about the AirTag is if you look at AirTag 1 and AirTag 2,
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: AirTag 2 is louder and it can operate at a larger distance, okay?
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: But...
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: Here's a power tip for all you AirTag users.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: The only way you can tell if you're using an AirTag 1 or AirTag 2 is to turn it over
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: and look if the text is all caps.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: If the text on the back is all caps, it means you have an AirTag 2.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: Which is,
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: it's like saying, oh,
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: so I bought a new Porsche and the only way I can tell that
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: the new Porsche is not last year's model is the VIN is now all in caps.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I do not understand that.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, okay.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: End of sermon.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: No, we're just getting started because we share a similar perspective,
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: which is kind of what brought us together.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: And You mentioned the CEOs today for the major tech companies.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's not unlike,
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: and I want to stay on technology and not get into politics,
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: but what you described- Yeah, no, you don't.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: No, but I do.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: I really do.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm good with that.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: I enjoy it.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: Life's too short, right?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: We enjoy this stuff.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: But when you look at politicians today in Congress,
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: they're elected to help- You know, the citizens of their state to help our country.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yet what we're seeing is we're seeing perceived power and profits dictate
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: the decisions that they make and who their alliances are with.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: Very similar to what you described with today's tech bros as opposed to back in the day.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: And as an evangelist for Apple,
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: back in the day guy,
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: If you saw these things changing,
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: would you have any influence as to the direction and the decisions that Steve Jobs
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: and his board of directors were making as we're discussing them today?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: Or do they just listen to what you're saying and then kind
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: of go down their own profit-motivated path?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: How does that work?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, Mitch,
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want people to get the impression that I was some kind of big mogul back in
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: the Macintosh division.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: I was just a cog in the machine.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: I was an important cog, but a cog nonetheless.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: You were a key cog.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was a key cog, but it's not like I could pull Steve aside and say, Steve, come here.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like how this is progressing.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: That would last about 10 seconds also.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, I mean, I don't think anybody foresaw the sort
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's even beyond dumbing down.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's like evil down.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't know how these people can, like,
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: when you wake up in the morning and you say, yeah,
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: I supported the administration that's taking away women's rights,
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: that's taking away the rights of minorities,
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: you know, they're getting people off SNAP.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: they're like,
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: they're telling people to take Clorox and,
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: you know, they're saying that Tony Fauci made the COVID.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like Tony had nothing better to do with his life, right?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Or wake up and find out Los Angeles and San Diego are nuclear targets.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: I hope Tony Fauci gets a freaking Nobel Prize.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he was on my podcast and, you know, he is just an awesome person.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: Mitch, my only—and people are going to think,
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: God, you're hallucinating, which is
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: not completely unlikely.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that the only explanation for what is happening right now is
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: that we are living in a simulation.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: And this simulation is controlled by God.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: And God has a really, really wicked sense of humor.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I am just hoping that at some point...
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: She
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: gets bored of this simulation and decides to fix things up a little.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if you want to even go deeper into my hallucinations...
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think that she has made this decision and she sent us AI because she now knows
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: that man is so delusional that the only way they can accept anything is to believe
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: that they created it.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: So God, she, sent us AI in order for AI to help us out of this and not end the human race.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: But she let us think that we invented AI when really she did it.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I want to be perfectly clear on one point.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: This is not me saying that Sam Altman is Jesus.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just get that established.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: Well said.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I got a text from her who reminded me to remind all my friends to vote
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: in the November midterms.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's what she wants us to do.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: She also, and by the way, we had some nice comments here.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: Fortuna, thanks for the kind words.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: And John...
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: Steve McLaughlin
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so what Mitch is alluding to is that I made a post that said,
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: ChatGPT is the toughest editor that I have worked with.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: And if you don't think that ChatGPT can improve your writing, you are clueless.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I regret saying that part because,
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: and all of a sudden people took it as a personal attack because,
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: you know, okay, so I don't think it will help me.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: So Guy is calling me clueless.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: So that was regrettable.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it also proves that ChatGPT did not write that comment
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: because ChatGPT would not have let me do that.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, so I have published 19 books.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: I've been in Macworld, Macweek, Forbes...
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: Harvard Business Review,
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: let's just say that I'm not a 40-year-old guy living with his mother sitting on
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: the sofa playing Grand Theft Auto all day.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I have worked with editors.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: I have worked with publishers.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I am telling you that no editor,
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: no editor has ever been tougher on me than ChatGPT tells me
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: that it doesn't make sense.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's insipid.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't add any value.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: People can get this advice anywhere.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it just rips me to shreds.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: And And then I post this and then all these people,
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: first of all,
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: based on that thread,
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: they just said, oh,
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: you're an idiot,
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: you're stupid,
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: you're a thief, you're condoning the end of water and blah, blah, blah.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then they're saying, yeah, well,
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: if you think ChatGPT is a tough editor,
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: you haven't worked for the New Yorker or the Atlantic.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: To which I say, you know, can you just read my comment carefully?
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I have never had a tougher editor.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: I did not say that you didn't have a tougher editor.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: I did not say that there is no such thing as a tougher editor.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's this big conflation that I said that I use ChatGPT as an editor.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: And somehow in their brain, the word editor...
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: Was substituted and changed to Ghostwriter.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: I do not use AI as a ghostwriter.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: I use it as an editor.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: And there is a difference.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, so yeah, I took a lot of heat there, but it's okay.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: I broke my personal record.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: I had 200,000 views on that.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: I had like 750 comments.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: But here is the most interesting thing about that.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: I had about 150 likes, right?
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: So this means that 150 people agreed with what I said,
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: whereas, I don't know, maybe 500 people disagreed with what I said.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: And quite frankly, my follower count went up and so did my subscriptions to Substack.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: So all these people are telling me, I'm never going to read your freaking writing again.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm never going to buy your book, blah, blah, blah.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: And really, I want to say to them, like, you know, cry me a river.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: You were never going to buy my book anyway.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, what's the net loss to me?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Zero.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, so,
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: you know, I mean,
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: it's not like I was so sly to create this controversy,
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: but I did get more subscribers to both my Substack newsletter and my account,
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: which is like...
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, frickin' Louya.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: Well, but you were speaking, look, you were speaking from the, two things.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: You were speaking from the heart and it resonated with the right people.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of friends of mine back in the day,
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: Guy, you know, Mitch, why are you posting about politics?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: Why are you sharing your thoughts on these breaking news stories?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: Aren't you going to lose clients?
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: Aren't you afraid of what people are going to say?
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever, right?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: Best thing I ever did was just be real and do what everyone sees me doing because,
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: to your point, it connected me with other people who I have more in common with.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: It filtered out people in my life that I don't want anything to do with
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: and I wouldn't represent a million years, right?
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: There's another component to what you just said.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: You and I have been around the block.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: We were around back in the late 80s and early 90s when a lot of this tech was being developed.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: And as a lawyer, people were saying, well, Mitch, you know, why do you have a website?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: What if something on your website's misspelled?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: What will people think of you?
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: I walked into a courtroom guy for an opening statement during the morning break,
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: set up my laptop, and the judge was fiddling around on the bench.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: This was late 80s.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: And it wasn't PowerPoint, but it was something like PowerPoint.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: And what are you doing, Mr. Jackson?
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm going to be doing an opening statement with some big diagrams blowing up
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: behind me on the screen.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: The judge goes, what is that?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's called a laptop.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: He goes, you're not using that in my courtroom, okay?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: So just put it away.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so this is the way it was back then.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: You post and you write and you think based upon what you've observed back in the early days.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: So do I.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: We both know, fast forward to today, something's going on right now that we can't disregard.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: And you can't be afraid of,
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: but it's also something where you shouldn't be afraid to talk about it.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: By the way, Mitch, was that judge's name Alito?
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: No, it was Cannon.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: It was Cannon.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then she moved to Florida.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: Because of me.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: This is just an aside,
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: but I saw an interview of Sam Alito this morning and the interviewer asked,
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: so as a Supreme Court justice,
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: whatever,
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: blah, blah, blah, you know, what particular decisions took a lot of courage to do?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: And...
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: I swear to God, Mitch, he said, well, the Dobbs decision took a lot of courage for me.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, you took away women's rights and you're the badass, Sam.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: So that's an old white man.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: You're so brave.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's hurting his relationships with his friends.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: Those are his words.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: It hurt his feelings,
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: and it's an interesting dance and it's a dance, though,
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: that I wouldn't change for anything,
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: like doing what we're doing, watching what we're doing.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: Caroline Elephant just joined us, guys.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: She's a strong proponent of using AI in the legal world,
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: primarily for appellate briefs and research and really being more efficient
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: and adding more value to our clients.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: And actually was part of two amicus briefs,
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: which I was a part of when Trump administration was suing the law firms
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: to keep them out of court and out of federal buildings.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: Some of us signed these amicus briefs headed up by Caroline to support the law firms
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: that stood their ground and ended up winning in court.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: Let's do this.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: Let's back up.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: So hi, Caroline.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: And if you guys have questions, definitely.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you guys ask questions if you have any.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: So you both save $10 million then?
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we do our little part.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: I think I got a cup of coffee out of it, but it was worth every sip.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: Guy, you wrote and co-wrote with Madison,
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: who's I think a friend of yours from Surfing,
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: and she heads up your Remarkable People podcast,
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: if I'm not mistaken, a book about Signal.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: What got you interested in Signal?
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: Why is privacy so damn important in today's world?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: And what's our takeaway?
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, I...
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: I started looking into,
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: just how secure and confidential things like email and text messaging is,
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: and they are not at all secure, right?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: So then I started going this whole like, so, you know, what is secure?
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: Then I kept hearing, yeah, all the mafia people use signal.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: I said, hmm, you know, that's a good test if the mafia uses signal.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: You mean literally?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: Are you talking about the government?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: So then
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: I often go to South by Southwest and I do fireside chats.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: One of my guests was the president of Signal, and she is a brilliant woman.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so I found out that when everybody blows smoke about...
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're end-to-end encrypted,
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: which means that as your message is traveling through the world,
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: it's all scrambled up so nobody can just get the scrambled stuff and de-scramble it
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: and read it.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: Only the sender and the receiver can.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I said, yeah, okay.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: But then they said, but yes...
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's a catch here.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: And the catch here, there's two components to a message.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: It is not just the message itself, which everybody now encrypts, but it's also the metadata.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: And the metadata is telling you,
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: who sent it,
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: when it was sent, where it was sent, you know, all these kind of little data.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: And people think, ah,
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: it doesn't matter if Mitch sent me a message from San Diego on Monday morning
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: at 8 a.m. What can they do with that?
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's just the metadata.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there's another famous quote that somebody from the Pentagon said,
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: which is something like, We conduct executions based on metadata.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean,
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: if you think about it,
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: so the metadata shows that Mitch was in San Diego at 8 a.m.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: and he sent 30 messages in five minutes to the same person who bombed the Department
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: of Justice.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, the metadata points towards Mitch.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm, you know,
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: they didn't have to read the message to construct circumstantial evidence
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: that Mitch is a terrorist, right?
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: So then I said, well, so who hides the metadata?
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: And the person, the company that hides the metadata, the absolute best is Signal.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's absolutely signal.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: So then just as I'm learning this,
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: there's all these ICE raids and,
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: and people are creating these groups so that they can warn people about ICE coming
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: and all that.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm thinking, oh, my God,
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: I hope they're not using Apple messages because Apple is basically one tariff
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: and inauguration away from saying,
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: yeah, you can have our metadata as long as we don't get tariffs.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: I said, my God, I got to tell people all signals.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: So that was the genesis of the Signal book.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: And it's an important book and an important topic.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: If you don't mind me just telling everyone, this is why I wrote mine, for the same reasons.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: This privacy in America, everybody...
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: 21 chapters, 251 pages.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: That wouldn't have happened had what Guy just described with ICE and with the taking
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: of our privacy rights, our First Amendment rights by this administration.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: Had that not been happening, I wouldn't have had the motivation to write this book.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: This is an important time in our country.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_02: Guy, I don't think people realize that we're being monitored 24-7.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: Every single day,
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: you guys,
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: this thing right here,
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's sending over 744 bits of information to not only for me,
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: Verizon, but to third-party companies I've never heard about.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: Where am I?
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: How fast am I going?
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: What's my speed?
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: Who am I talking to?
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever it may be.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: And Guy,
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: a lot of people don't realize your cars are sending 25 gigabytes
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: of data every single month.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: So much more than our phones to third-party suppliers
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: that are selling this information private.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a big problem.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: So to your point, your Signal book resonated with me.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: And the only way we communicate with our retained clients,
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: clients who retain us,
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: is through Signal.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's through the Signal web.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: We don't do email.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: We don't do text.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it starts off that way.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: So you got to direct people back over to it, right?
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: Because I don't think they realize, hey, by the way,
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: how easy and simple is Signal to use?
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: I got to say, Mitch,
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: I really know a lot about email because,
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: man, I had email before most people listening to this were born.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: I started with Apple back in 1985.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Forget the encryption, forget the metadata.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: If you just looked at Signal as an email client, It is extremely well-designed.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's extremely well-designed.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: I would make the argument it's more well-designed than Gmail or Apple Mail.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, so listen, so the name of the book is Everybody Has Something to Hide.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason why I called it that is because many,
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: many times I talk to people and I say, listen, You know, you're a divorce lawyer.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: You should only use Signal to communicate with your clients because text messages
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: and email are not private enough.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: And they say, ah, I have nothing to hide.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then you tell that to everybody and everybody says, I have nothing to hide.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so let me burst that bubble, right?
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: So first of all,
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: Depending on who's running Washington, D.C.,
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: and in particular,
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: who's running the FBI,
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: when the Winter Olympics are not on and they're not at the hockey game,
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: who decides what is worth hiding or not?
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know,
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: so you have nothing to hide and your granddaughter just texted you,
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: I miss my period.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: I miss my period, Grandma, and I cannot tell my parents.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what to do.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then so now people read that message and then,
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: you know, Oh,
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: we see that she flew from Texas to California and then she never mentioned it again.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe she flew to California and had an abortion.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm a district attorney in Texas and I want to be a congressman.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I am going to charge her with murder.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: Now, you're the lawyer.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: You can tell me if that's total bullshit or could happen.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, it is happening right now.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, play it safe and encrypt everything.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: Here's what people need to understand is whether or not you're using Signal,
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: when your phone data is being monitored by third-party companies,
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: they can locate you within literally one to two meters,
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: depending on the settings of your phone.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: And if for whatever reason you're purchasing, what are you buying at the pharmacy?
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: That information is available.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's not private.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so you need to be very careful about using this stuff.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: And real quick, Los Gatos, Sin Madrid, appreciate the kind words about privacy.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: And that's one reason Guy and I connected because on his Substack,
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: he's talking about things of interest to him,
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: remarkable people and things like this.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: You've had some experts on your podcast,
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: Guy, talking about some of the issues that we've Glossed apart across the day.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's just awareness.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: People need to understand that there are no federal privacy laws right now.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: There's no blanket federal privacy law that's protecting you.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: You have to take your own actions to protect your privacy,
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_02: your family's privacy, and privacy at your business.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I think Signal's a great way to communicate to help do that, right?
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's not the final solution, but it's a step in the right direction.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: What are your thoughts about people you know in tech and in an AI guy
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: about people typing personal information into AI chatbots?
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_02: What have you read about or heard about that?
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: Are you worried about that at all?
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: Because from a legal standpoint, there can be some issues.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: Person allegedly killing her mother,
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: she did a Google search for how do I dispose of a body, right?
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's entered as evidence, right?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you go to chat GPT and say, I'm thinking of murdering my mother.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: She's 60 years old.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: She wears 105 pounds.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: I live in, you know...
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know where.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: And how can I dispose of her body?
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: If I throw her in the ocean, will she float up when she starts deteriorating?
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: And for all you know,
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: maybe this person is an aspiring author and is trying to write a murder mystery,
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like...
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I want to have an authentic chapter on how the bad guy disposes of the body.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: So let me ask ChatGPT, what are ways to dispose of a body?
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: Or, you know,
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: can I murder somebody by freezing a block of ice and making a sharp object out
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: of ice?
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I stab the person and the ice melts, there's no fingerprints.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you can see I have a pretty sick mind.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, I've been reading too many...
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: Jack Reacher and Da Vinci Code books.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, so, I mean, it could be completely innocuous, but, you know, I mean...
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: But you have to spend the time and the money to defend yourself
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: from these innocuous... Like,
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: for example, you take a picture of seashells on the beach that say 8647, right?
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: Or you stick your hand...
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: The pool, yeah.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm not planning on murdering anybody, so I don't ask about how to dispose a body.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: Let the record reflect.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'll give you an example.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: Mitch, I will be the last person in the world to use Muse.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think that is, I don't care how useful it is.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: The thought of, okay, Muse, okay, Mark,
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: here's my Gmail,
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: here's my bank,
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: here's my everything,
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: you be my agent, you go spend money for me, you go buy things for me.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: From the company called Meta.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: From the company that helped Cambridge Analytics.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: From the company that said,
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: oh, you can turn off this kind of disclosure, but it's 16 menus down.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: From the company that said, oh, there was a bug.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: Somehow people got your phone number.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then the CEO is on the inauguration stage donating a million dollars
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: and is going to the Opening of the Melania movie and like,
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: yeah, that's the person I'm going to have run my agent.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: Sounds like a good idea, right?
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: Sounds like a great idea.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: What could go wrong?
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: So for all of our viewers, both live and recorded, I've looked at the TOS agreement.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: For all these major platforms.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_02: And what people need to realize, and this is premised on 40 years of practicing law, everybody.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_02: What people need to realize is the TOS agreements and
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: the privacy policies are written in a way where the companies can make
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_02: a unilateral decision to modify and expand those provisions.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's not set in stone.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: And Guy,
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: there was a case in Texas where Facebook slash Meta got spanked
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: for several hundred billion dollars, I think.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like with a B,
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: because of something that Zuck said back in the day
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_02: about we will never share your personal private information back in 2012
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: to what's been happening since, right?
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I don't know if that case is going to be overturned on appeal.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: The damages will probably be reduced.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: But these companies have the right to change everything.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: Now, having said that,
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: because I like technology and I write about this stuff,
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_02: I've been playing around with Muse, right?
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: I've played around with all the platforms, right?
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: You've got to be careful with what you put into these platforms, everybody.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: And what can Muse do for you?
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're not going to like my initial feedback.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's by far...
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: The easiest, friendliest, fastest, most efficient.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I believe that.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like for what I'm doing with it, along with ChatGPT.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: Which is also an agent that runs computers in the cloud.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what makes these things so unique.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: They're on the right track.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: Did you say agent or Asian?
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: I said agent with a T. I'm just making sure you didn't say Asian.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: You got to check me every now and again.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: Check me up against the boards.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm used to it.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: I married a lawyer, guy.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm used to it.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, my daughter went to UCLA with your son.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: So she's now in her eighth year at Shepard Mullen.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: So it's funny how time passes.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I also, my daughter ran in a cross-country meet at your old high school back in the day.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: So her Dana Hills High School team in Southern California in Orange County,
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: cross-country, was invited to participate in an invitational.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_02: My daughter was a junior, and guess who had the fastest time of the day?
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: She takes after her mother.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: And this was in Hawaii?
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: This is at your high school in Hawaii.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_02: Elon.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I've got the plaque in her room.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_02: I showed you the plaque when we did a show with Peg Fitzgerald or Fitzpatrick.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_02: But it's not the school that Obama went to.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's the other high school, right?
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: No, Obama couldn't get into Iyalani.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: He had to go to Punahou.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where her cross-country team went.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_02: But it's a small world.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_02: Let me ask you a question.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: So one of the reasons we jumped on here today is we wanted to kick the tires
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_02: on Substack live video.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: You're focusing, I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you're focusing...
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so...
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: So listen,
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: if you just did a sort of top-down count of followers,
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: I probably have six or seven million.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: Now people think, oh my God, guy, you have seven million followers.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: So if you tell seven million people to buy your book,
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: Conservatively speaking, 700,000 people will buy your book.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: Try seven, maybe 70.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not Kim Kardashian, and I'm not Mr. B, so I'm not any of those people.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: So if I tell you by lipstick or my book, you're not going to listen to me.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I literally do not know how to monetize my social media.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: And next, I have about, I get about 30,000 downloads on my podcast per month.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then,
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: if you went to most podcast advertising companies,
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: they say, yeah, so we're like $5 CPM.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: So 30,000, which means you have 30 downloads.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: So you take 30 and you multiply that by 5.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: So my God, guy,
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: you can make $150 a month with your podcast,
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: which means that I would only lose $9,850 from the cost of my podcast.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm looking at this and knock on wood, Canva has been very good to me.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: So podcasting and writing is a very, very expensive hobby for me now.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I have told my wife, I don't do drugs.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: I don't do gambling.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have a mistress.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have boats.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have art.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of don't have cars.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't play golf.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: So Podcast is my drug.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, yeah, I guess, you know, when you say it that way, it's not so bad.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so anyway,
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: so I'm telling you this sad story that I'm not making a penny on,
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: you know, social media or podcasting.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then I looked at that and I said, well,
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: these people from Substack,
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: which is really, I could use advice here in the live chat.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: So they tell me, guy,
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: if you have 18,000 free subscribers,
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: if you up the quality and you make them have compelling reasons to convert to paid,
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: you roughly get 10% of the people.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: So 10% of 18,000 people is 1,800.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: Cross my heart and hope to die.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just round up because I'm not that good at math.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: So let's say that 2,000 people sign up for the paid version.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's $10 a month.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: $10 a month times $2,000 is $20,000.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: $20,000 times $12,000 is $240,000.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: Honey, honey, podcasting is not a hobby anymore.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's a revenue source.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: So the question is, will 10% of $18,000 sign up?
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know the answer to that question.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't either.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: And it's interesting because this isn't why you're doing it.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_02: In other words,
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_02: your podcast,
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_02: you get to meet some really amazing people, reconnect with old friends, share value.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what your books are all about, helping people, sharing value.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_02: Wise guy, right?
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_02: I like doing that from a lawyer's perspective,
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: my things I've done in my life,
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: the mistakes that I've made, the success that I've had.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: I like kind of helping people along a little bit.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: You're going to like this.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_02: Not too long ago, I was giving a closing argument and we had law school students watching.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, Mr. Jackson, how did you know to ask, to focus on that one juror?
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: How did you know that's where the attention needed to be, right?
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: How did you know to say what you focused on in that case?
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_02: And they wanted me to tell them it was an app or a pill or something, right?
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, it's from doing this for 35 to 40 years.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's like reading the room.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know what it was from?
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_02: I said, it's from waiting tables and being a bartender in college.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: What?
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just reading the room and people skills, right?
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_02: And it takes time.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_02: And your wisdom,
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_02: all of the years you've been doing this,
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_02: you're sharing it back through your podcast,
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: which I believe you're repurposing – Podcast content now in Substack, right?
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_02: Are you doing that?
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, I'm exploring all things.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: All options.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: I ran a poll and I said, okay, see, these are the three things I could put in my newsletter.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: I could have summaries of my podcast.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: To my point.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: To my point.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: First person essays or, you know, whatever.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I let people vote and basically everybody,
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: half of the people,
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: the largest group by far was we want first person guy stories,
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: not generic, you know, advice like smile when you meet people.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: Great
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_02: video at Stanford though.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's a classic.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, Peter, the reason why I wear a maple leaf is because I love Canada.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: I have never met a Canadian that I did not like.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: And prior to me falling in love with surfing, I loved hockey.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: I used to play hockey three times a week.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: I went to that first outdoor game that was negative 40 in Edmonton.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: I went to the Vancouver Olympics.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: I have played hockey with...
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: Some very famous hockey players, Peter Stasny for one.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so not only do I love hockey,
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: I love Canadians, I love maple syrup, I love Tim Hortons, and I love donuts.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_01: And if...
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: If America goes to shit, I am going to move to Vancouver and I'm going to surf in Torino.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why I'm wearing that.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: Now, on the other hand,
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: maybe this is going to be the symbol of the 51st state of the United States.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I got both bases covered.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, you're playing your cards on both sides of the table.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, real quick.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_02: RT2026, graduate of Danny Hills High School.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_02: I see your comment.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_02: And then with respect to...
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_02: Where is it in here?
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_02: John, we talk about AI and privacy.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_02: We did.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: We may circle back to it.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: We'll probably be wrapping this up in a few minutes.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_02: So it's at the beginning of the recorded show.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_02: I gave a keynote to a lawyer group up in Toronto, Guy, and Peter...
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_02: Who lives in Toronto came by and we had lunch together.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_02: We'd known each other online, right?
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_02: Super nice guy,
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_02: super bright marketing expert,
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_02: kind of retired now, but doing some amazing photography, early morning photography.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_02: He comes by and,
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_02: you know, he's everything I thought he would be from basically doing shows online.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_02: And he told me that he's got one or two couches available if we ever need to head north.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_02: And have a place to rest our hats, right?
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, listen,
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_02: I want everybody to,
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_02: if you have suggestions for Guy on tweaking the Substack platform,
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_02: I've shared my two cents worth as what's been working for me.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I know that, Guy, your content is what we need more of.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_02: It helps people be better people, right?
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_02: And it comes from the heart.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I was giving you a hard time.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_02: That survey you did, yeah,
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_02: people want to hear your experiences,
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_02: good and bad, what you learned and what we can learn from those experiences.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I think Substack's a great place to do it.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_02: What I've noticed, everybody, is 80% free complimentary content.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_02: If you want to monetize it, 10 to 20%.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_02: 20% monetized.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_02: And then being active, that's the hard part.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_02: Engaging, just like anything else.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_02: It takes time.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_02: That seems to have been the secret for me, and it's working pretty well.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_02: Guy, wrapping things up,
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_02: moving forward from it,
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_02: let's just focus on from an AI,
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_02: security, privacy perspective, what you see with the platforms, with the industry.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_02: What would you...
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_02: I think I would say that artificial intelligence is here to stay.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_01: It is a game changer.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_01: It is the most useful technology I have ever encountered in my career.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_01: That is not to say that there isn't dangers,
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_01: but there was dangers starting with the wheel,
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: starting with fire,
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_01: starting with the printing press, starting with the internet, starting with Twitter.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_01: There's been danger all the way along now.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I think an important concept is that you compare apples to apples,
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: which means that when you read these stories that,
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: AI could start World War III because America's LLM gets pissed off with China's LLM
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: and they start a nuclear war.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it might be able to do that.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: But if you were to ask me, like, what's the most likely scenario for nuclear war?
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's not ChatGPT getting pissed off.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_01: It is some fascist dictator saying, ah, I got to get myself out of this war.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think I'll just nuke that country.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I am much more afraid of humans than chat GPT.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to pay you a compliment, Mitch,
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: which is there is a Guy Kawasaki theory that everything in life can be explained by
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: a two-by-two matrix.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_01: And the 2x2 matrix is that across the horizontal axis,
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_01: you measure whether something is not valuable or valuable.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: And on the vertical axis, you measure whether the thing is common or unique.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_01: And the secret to life is that you have something that is unique and valuable.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: An example of that was the first iPod because the first iPod was unique and valuable.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_01: It was the only way in a device you could put in your pocket with a user interface
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_01: that a mortal could use that you could get music legally in large quantities,
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: large selection for 99 cents.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing else could do that.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_01: All of this bullshit is leading up to me saying to you,
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: Mitch, that there are probably people who understand the technology better.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: There may be even some people who understand the privacy law better.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_01: But there's nobody in the world that understands privacy and law like Mitch Jackson.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_01: So Mitch Jackson, you are the iPod of privacy and law technology.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_01: And the implications of that on normal people's lives, you are the iPod of that, Mitch.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_02: I will take that.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_02: Little did I know when I first started playing around with my first iPod
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_02: that this would come around full circle with Guy Kawasaki.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_02: My friend, this has been fantastic.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate your time.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_02: I want everybody to, and thank you for that.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_02: I want everyone to connect with Guy on Substack,
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_02: share his content, learn his content, digest it.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe someday we'll get out on
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_01: the water together.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_02: I know we'd rather be surfing right now.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'll bring my paddleboard.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: That is where I'm going right now.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_02: Be safe out there and have fun.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Guy.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, everybody, for joining us.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_02: Appreciate it.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_02: Bye-bye.