Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / The Two's Sacred Need | Helping, Receiving & Trusting God with Deanna Sudom

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The Two's Sacred Need | Helping, Receiving & Trusting God with Deanna Sudom · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: When they pour so much over and over to be careful and not get exhausted from loving too much, but also getting to the place where they they can ask for what they need.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if we move a little bit into their core fear and what that looks like, um, being unloved specifically or unwanted, uh, that their heart their core desire is actually being loved and wanted from their hearts always breaking from being attuned to others so much and and rarely being attuned to themselves that this ache can become a distraction actually that keeps them from looking inward.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Says you are enough just as you are without doing one more thing because Jesus is enough in you and God created you to love those around you.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast, the Enneagram for real life.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Here is where you'll find conversations where faith meets story and strategy for lasting transformation.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Amy Wicks, here to help you find wisdom and wholehearted rhythms for moments that matter most.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you're learning your type or deepening your spiritual formation, these conversations will remind you that the Enneagram shines a light, but Christ is the transformation.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Deanna, we are stepping into Enneagram 2 months.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: It is the countdown.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: I keep saying it because I'm amazed you've stayed with me.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for being here again to talk all about the Enneagram 2s.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's exciting.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of funny and kind of true because sometimes I thought, oh, another one.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Now we're down.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: We only have one more after today.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that's amazing.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been a great journey.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: I've loved doing this with you.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I think as with most things, we are obedient to the call.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: We maybe have some idea of what we think it's going to be.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then the adventure of it, the journey of it is very different.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: And but it's been wonderful.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: I've loved this touch point coming back to you and I just talking about what we know, what we've personally experienced, what we've studied, what we teach.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so the Enneagram 2, probably not too unlike other types.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's misnomers, misconceptions, generalizations.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: And also, I think for women in particular, this is a type that we maybe have all landed on in our journey.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Or perhaps can I just throw out a stat?
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: This is not research.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: I would say 80% of Christian women have landed on this Enneagram type at one point in their journey, going, Am I a two?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Who doesn't want to be a helper, right?
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think that's the interesting thing because you have the types who don't, and you even have Enneagram twos who shave a little bit against the terminology, but at the same time as uh in typical female roles, helper is expected, anticipated, maybe even demanded a little bit.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, very true.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: And there's such great qualities and twos.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: They're probably, I always think about I've told my friend, this particularly one friend, I've said, you love better than anyone I've ever known in my life.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: There's just this deep capacity to whether whatever intentions it comes from, it still comes out as this great love, right?
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so I know that I know a lot of two personalities, even just in my circle.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think our hearts feel each other as twos and fours.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: As I go there in stress, they go to me in growth.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: And but love and nurturing are actually the gifts that God has given this type to show to the world, and it's pretty evident.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: So this makes some, I think, have extraordinary attunement to others, able to intuitively see needs and scan and read the room, as they say, always wanting to serve and contribute.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, the type two women I know are really naturally sensitive and empathetic.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I have a funny story about that because I led a women's group in the spring, and there were 10 women, and five of them were type twos, which is so crazy.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: We were laughing every time.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: So then we would go.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: My host was actually a type two, and she loved hospitality, she loved having people.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: We were serving supper to women, and she loved everything about it, and she just wanted to bless everybody.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: She wanted them to sit down, don't do that.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: I can do this.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was trying to let her do that because she loves it.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: And but there were four other type twos, and not once in a group was there a time when somebody didn't say, Can I help you?
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: Or they just started helping, or they just, what can I do?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: So that kind of gives a good picture of them, I think.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I like the word that you used attunement.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: And there is this super power for the Enneagram, too, that they can anticipate needs and maybe name the need before you can discern it yourself.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: And they're often already taking action before you could possibly form the words to ask.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: And this is a an amazing gift.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's a wonderful blessing if you're in orbiting often a two, and that two is in your life and anticipating your needs and supporting.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that makes the that's an interesting thread for the two because man, that's a blessing and that's wonderful.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: But the other side is making it part of their identity and it being wrapped up in about what you do or how you're helping and supporting.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: But then the other side is that a lot of Enneagram twos that I know have a hard time in return being able to articulate what they need and then asking and receiving.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's so true.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's um I've witnessed actually, you know, if we move a little bit into their core fear and what that looks like, um, being unloved specifically or unwanted, uh, that their heart their core desire is actually being loved and wanted and or their longing, I should say.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I've witnessed the wrestle in some of my friends where I know when helping doesn't feel optional, but it feels dangerous to release, likely because of the fear of being rejected or unloved.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of gone past the place of health sometimes before they see it clearly and then realize something needs to change.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I've also witnessed where they press into, as I was saying before, they their growth path is a four, that they can start asserting themselves in ways and take back some power.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas if they pla stayed in the state in the stress place, going to an eight, it may come out a little bit resentful or aggressive.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it kind of all flows back to trying to prevent this fear from coming to fruition, right?
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Which I I would want to even just give that hint to a fear of rejection in all of this.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned it before.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: You have that line to the two as a four.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: The two has a line to the four.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: You and I have know a lot of twos.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think part of that is our circles, our a lot of it are faith-centered and around service at the church or church circles in general.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's a natural attraction that I think Enneagram twos have to the faith, but also traditional church structure, because there is that element where the church is oftentimes doing a lot of things to serve the needs.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: And there is a lot of natural channels for for a two to put their energy and see some, um, maybe majored uniquely, but see some return on their investment.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that is such a beautiful thing.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: And again, that's where it comes.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: The two sides to this are uh the fact that maybe they give and give and they're not appreciated as they need to be or desire to be.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: But I think this is how this is where sometimes the twos get in trouble as well, is that they're serving, they're not being recognized appropriately or enough because the church is busy and they're building their programs and they just assume the help.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so it be it becomes resentment, but also I think the twos' internal conflict around that resentment is really challenging because that instinct to go, no, my my need is serving your need.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: They can't even get to the need of, I need appreciation for this way I'm serving.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I also have needs to care for my own that might be missed for this bigger vision, or perhaps even my family is paying or sacrificing a little as well.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because institutionally it feels maybe more rewarding to give and serve at a place that maybe is offering appreciation outside of the demands of our family that just feel like, oh, that's it gets taken for granted all the time.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I think that is a a real sticking point.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: And they just kind of all tie together and flow together and until they move into a place of growing to be able to see, like, hey, like I have needs too.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm important too, and I can do all of these things, or maybe differently, so that the reward is still there, so that their natural gift of being able to help and love people.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know I think it probably all stems from that, that there might be a fine line in that when they pour so much over and over to be careful and not get exhausted from loving too much, but also getting to the place where they they can ask for what they need for or what they need in that space.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: I know I'm not gonna quote it exactly.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna reference to it for those who have an all access pass, but Sarah Jackson taught on the fine line.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought the Enneagram two description and all of that was really poignant and was helpful to see how fine that line actually is.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe it was partially because I had a conversation with my sister who's an Enneagram two, and who's blessed to be a part of the church that uh Sarah serves at.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so we had quite the conversation just around how impactful it was to hear as a two, just those that fine line that needs to be addressed because on the outside, so much of what a two does and how they operate and uh the outside looking in, it looks like they are like they, I suppose the term would be having their act together, but that they're okay.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's because it's not like the threes desire for success or to be seen as successful, but it is as the twos almost this, I can hold everything and I can hold everybody.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to maintain that appearance, but underneath they're really growing resentful and exhausted, and it's becoming a burden that is way too much to bear on their own, and was never what Christ asked them to begin with.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, very well said.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: I want to hear a little bit more of what you would say from the on the sacred need that they have, the idea that their need or their desires or their request for help or even acceptance, right?
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that it's not part, that's not being selfish and it's not weakness.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's just being human.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: So speak to that a little bit from almost in a pastoral note of my friends listening who are going, oh yeah, this is so true, but I don't really know what to do about it because helping people serving it's required, it's often requested if it's the need.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't know how to stop that crazy train almost.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think the the wound is often the pain of trying to suppress their own needs.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: So a type two can experience, I think there's deep shame that's underneath all of that if asked to acknowledge their needs.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of a funny place when I've talked to different personality types in a two and or just different people, and how it's really tricky for them to even get to their needs.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, especially if there's been a high level of self-abandonment where they have no, this is what I'm supposed to do, I'm serving, I'm loving, I gotta do all the things.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's a whole level of leaning in and knowing how loved they are by the Lord to even entertain the thoughts of their needs being sacred, especially the two who has been told or told herself that having needs is too much or inconvenient or demanding or unspiritual.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that can tie up a lot when they're in church.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: And when really, as you said, it's just being human.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what it means might feel like for them to name a need out loud without immediately apologizing that they actually have those.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: It sometimes feels wrong for a type two to name the need, often maybe in comparison.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: I had a conversation recently that said comparison, it's not as bad as fill in the blank, perhaps almost martyr-like.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: An example, I can't eat because another person has suffered something and probably doesn't feel like eating to that extreme, you know, that physically even they're ignoring those kind of needs and not eating for certain times or or seasons.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen that play out.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: It becomes personal rather than something that's not even related to them.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then learning the difference.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think this is the big one, probably between being needed, what you provide and do for someone, and being loved based solely on who you are as a person, that God sees you and he calls you his beloved, that it has nothing to do.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: I have always said to my kids, it doesn't matter what you do or don't do, in the years to come, I will always love you.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so I I think if a two can really just envelop that and embody it and know that they're beloved.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: That will help them see the difference in it.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm jumping in here with that thought because we do talk a lot about the belovedness and re and living into that.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: What does it look like to receive it, to step from that gap of I think the two embodies this very easily.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: They love God and they love others.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: But the loving themselves and receiving that love for themselves is the sticking point.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the upstream practice that changes everything for everybody.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: But I think particularly challenging for the two to access.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I would agree.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think probably I remember I had a friend who started to heal and become more aware of her needs.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, therefore, starting to stand up for herself more, and it would take such a little statement.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: She would make in an effort to speak a boundary or speak her own heart, because she didn't quite believe that she had the right to say those things to somebody else.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it felt like an offense for her to say it.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: But the more that she was able to receive that God loved her, that this, yes, I have given you needs.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: You are a human being, you're not a human doing.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: And one of that to me is something, you know, things that she was saying that I probably speak all the time because I'm a little sassy.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, and I remember her saying, this feels so mean to say to someone.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it was unbelievable to me that something like that could feel so it was almost visceral for her that it was it was just this place of learning to assert herself.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: And and it it was sad for me because I I was watching and seeing how little she regarded herself in all of that.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: You hint at, and you maybe even said it before, but the self-abandonment, it's not quite the self-erasure that perhaps the nine and four could maybe do, but the self-abandonment.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: I know there we could spend a whole hour talking about that.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: But I want to just give a little bit more language because I think that it's maybe starts with some codependency, but then it bleeds into the self-abandonment.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: And what do you think some even practical steps would be to come back to themselves and identifying?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there is a process of becoming aware and awake, but maybe even identifying that to know, oh, maybe there's something here that I need to pay attention to and perhaps even partner with a guide who can help me distinguish and access that the truth about um the goodness of standing true to how what the Lord has for me, not out of selfishness, but out of genuine, well, the Lord has given us agency and autonomy and those pieces that He wants to restore back to us.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: I I have a couple of little tips, but I just wanted to say this before that, that I I sense that, and maybe this will speak to it because it it ties kind of into the weakness, but that they become so exhausted from their hearts always breaking from being attuned to others so much and and rarely being attuned to themselves that this ache can become a distraction, actually, that keeps them from looking inward.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um so then the cycle just continues, right?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: This can tie into their weakness of pride, which shows up and denying themselves and then confidently inserting themselves in helpful support, thinking they know what's best for other people, because they really do have an intuition about others, but it might get skewed from this lens of pride that shows up, and not pride in the in the sense that we think of like you're so proud of yourself, but just in this sneaky way that that this weakness comes to them.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think little pieces that they could even be able to receive what the Lord has.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think, like you said, having a counselor or tr or a person they can trust to hear them out, they're often verbal processors, the time two people that I know need to talk it out, you know, so they can practice and have a reflection of their behavior and be able to speak their needs in a safe place.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like one little thing that they recognize, hey, I actually need this in my life, or um, you know, letting someone do something for them without then redirecting to their needs.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: Often, often I've seen that if I will do something helpful to a two, it almost feels like they have to have reciprocity or they don't feel complete in that.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: And when really people just want to give to them as well, like they are pouring out to others.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: So also I think just being able to choose rest without thinking they need to earn it first, that it's okay to go lay down for 20 minutes or an hour, or just lay things down, put their phones down, do all of the things that take up their time.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think those are a few little tidbits that maybe could take you off the track.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: I have a daughter-in-law who's a type two, and I just said to her last night, What is one thing you could do to stop the spiral from happening?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: When your brain starts making this turnaround.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And trying to make sense of all the things.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: I said, what's one little thing that you could do?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: So she's thinking about that.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's in process.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think you even and starting that part of the maybe a habit that I've seen, or maybe an unseen pattern that is almost villainous towards themselves as a two, is the self-sabotage or villainous behavior towards themselves can often look like helping other people and supporting other people instead of pursuing their own dream, their own business, their own desire, even if it's seemingly insignificant, like a craft or a fun hobby, that the two, the two's work is never done.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: Just like the three will never get to a point of feeling like they've accomplished everything or reached that elusive goal line that keeps moving, the needs and demands will never stop.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: And if a two thinks that is their quest and that's what they have to do in order to maintain connection, to maintain worth and value, then they never will step fully into what the Lord has uniquely for them, which like for some, you know, for everyone, it's different.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: There is the gift of helps, and there are supporting roles that are the lead role in themselves because they're doing exactly what the Lord has done.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: But more often than not, I've seen a two not even move forward an inch on anything they'd really love to do because the needs and the demands are always there.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm curious how you've maybe seen that play out or what it's looked like to help a two get on the track of like, oh no, I like I can put these other things in past because it'll always the the needy will always be with us.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: That that is very true.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: That is very biblical.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it is.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's true.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think lots of times they're the gifts that God has given them are actually tied into these types of things.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I think even just praying for more discernment in which way to go in what is theirs and what isn't.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually um just spoke this past week, and I really felt like part of what I said would be fitting for today.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so I wanted to just talk about Psalm 23, how it came to mind and what the Lord showed me about it recently as I studied it.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I believe that it fits for a type two in this way as they learn to receive rather than just pouring out all the time.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: Can I read that today?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, please do.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm just gonna actually encourage you if you're listening to stop and if it feels safe for you, and you have the ability to close your eyes and just listen to the scripture, even with a posture of your hands out to receive it.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and then I'll share what I feel like the Lord's speaking about it.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: So Psalm 23, Psalm of David.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: The Lord is my shepherd, I lack nothing.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: He makes me lie down in green pastures, he leads me beside quiet waters, he refreshes my soul, he guides me along the right paths for his name's sake.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: Even though I walk through the darkest valley, I will fear no evil, for you are with me, your rod and your staff they comfort me.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies, you anoint my head with oil, my cup overflows.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: Surely your goodness and love will follow me all the days of my life, and I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: So notice what it says.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: Listen to what God says through this psalm.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: He makes me lie down, he leads me, he refreshes me, he guides me, he is with me, he comforts me, he prepares a table for me, he anoints me, his goodness and love follow me.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Our part is to follow our shepherd and to learn to dwell in his presence.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to earn his care and rest.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: Type twos.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: You simply have to receive it.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is so good, Deanna.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking about how often sometimes it's either misheard or misstated.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: But there can be the thought for the two that God needs me.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm needed here, and I need to partner with him, and I need to do this.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: And and instead, I think as Psalm 23 highlights and invites, is like he wants you and he wants to partner with you, and he's preparing good things for you, and he wants you to enjoy and receive.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the overflow that he desires for you to share with others, but to not manufacture or contrive or push until you're exhausted and depleted and have more, no more to give and all of that.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, there's I there's a lot of different things that I feel like we still haven't said, and I feel like we've like skipped to an end element here of where we would normally like to close and wrap up.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that I want to, I want the friend to hear whether you are confident you're a two or whether this just is hitting in a place where it's like you're like I resonate with this.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: I I think I'm a three, I think I'm a seven, I think I'm a six, but hearing this is touching my heart and compelling me and inviting to me.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel tears welling up.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: I would say just receive that.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think as women in general, the yoke we've sometimes placed on ourselves as helper and that title and that role and that demand.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of us feel this and also come into a place where we keep giving till we're exhausted and we need to be reminded that, oh, but you're meant to receive first.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what God, what the Lord's love is all about, what the Father's love is inviting us to, not to create workhorses out of us or little soldiers to do all these things.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's so true.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: I just had that song go through my head.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: Onward, Christians.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: We're getting out to war.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: Who were they writing that about?
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, but I know exactly what song you're talking about.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: And may we understand that it's if we're gonna soldier anything, may it be the invitation.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I let me think of Valentine's, throwing out Valentine's of Love.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: May we go out and that's what we're tossing about and thrown about.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: I know that there's a lot of different conversations that we're gonna have this month that highlight and celebrate more about the two and give the journey of what it looks like to be victim, villain, hero guide, and what it looks like to say yes, because I don't know about you, Deanna, but what I've encountered is that I think Enneagram twos are probably the least amount of type I've ended up coaching.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: Not that I know or not that I'm friends with or related to, but who have said yes to coaching.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's an interesting fact because being guided or coached requires time and the acknowledgement of need.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I I'm curious for you, have you encountered that?
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because five would be a close second, but I think I've coached more fives than I have to in a formal way.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: I would agree with you.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: I was going through like the filing cabinet in my head.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, me too.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, I think if it was, it was maybe a type two friend who maybe saw the value of coming to getting some Enneagram coaching that has had maybe more awareness or um some growth that's happened.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I would say that maybe that's a little bit of a sticking point.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: I might have to agree with you on that.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: That kind of goes back to the idea of the self-sabotage to my engage in that thwarts them from the dream that they might have in the back of their mind or they've had simmering behind the scenes for a long time, that getting help and getting the support to get to that point, or to just to be able to sit in a posture of receive.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: I just think that's a really tough thing.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess that's maybe where I would even go.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: My friend who's listening right now, you're two, you know, you're two, you resonate with it, even though everyone's like, well, of course you think you're two, you're a Christian woman.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: But but all of this, you're like, no, that's I see it.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: But then I guess I want to take that next step and go, don't just listen to the podcast and share it with your friend.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why what is next for you?
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to think for you, what does it look like to receive the support and care and someone to help you in your journey wherever you're at?
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Whether that's help being a parent, help in your marriage, help with your business, help with this dream that you have, or the spiritual care that you need.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess that's a little bit of my my charge and what's gonna look different than the unique to the two conversation here, because um, I know it's hard.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: And before you go off proving you're a two to the world, how what would it look like for you to receive from the Lord in a way that your heart uniquely needs?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's really good.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: I was thinking about that even in my direction of stress when I move to a two.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I get to that place, I think I'm glad I'm not always a two because I just go.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: This is like when I'm and let let the record say I love twos more than a a lot of you know different types of people, but I think I just go, like it's just within no consideration for myself.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just helping, I'm feeling, I'm doing all the things to not feel what I need to feel at that time, usually is what drives that.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so I know when I feel like I'm on a roller coaster and I can't get off, I am like, okay, something needs to shift here.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, even just recently, I've decided I needed to go back to counseling.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: I need somebody to help me to derail that space where and help me to work through the feelings that I have stuffed down for way too long.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm just resonating with the hearts of the two and how it can just become this, you know, the hamster wheel that keeps on spinning.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I invite you to listen to what Amy said and just kind of step outside of that, put your foot down, make the wheel stop, and put the brakes on and really pay attention to who he wants you to be right now, who he wants to, how he wants to speak into you.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just thinking, even as I think we're getting near to close, right?
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're good.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to give my own charge there, but I I just thought, my, you know, you're so deeply loved, my two sisters.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: You do not have to hustle for it.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, like my shirt says today, you can't see it says, you are enough, just as you are without doing one more thing, because Jesus is enough in you, and God created you to love those around you, but not to your detriment, just from the overflow of what he pours into you.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I encourage you to find your safe people, practice loving and knowing yourself.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: I know one thing that I've seen work in some twos that I know is making a list of their favorite things and keep adding to it, keep it as an ongoing list just to be able to go back.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: And if someone says, What do you like?
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: even if they can't come up with it in that moment, they're like, Hey, I have that written down here, and I can reference it.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: So believing that your presence trumps doing, that you don't have to fix all the things or the systems or the people to have value, that he is El Roy E, the God who sees you.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I just encourage you to rest in him.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's so beautiful, Deanna.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a beautiful way to close.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, in the end, I want to just highlight an image in the book, wholehearted Enneagram.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: And for my friend who is newer to my world, if you haven't heard about it or read the book, I used trees to depict uh the beauty of our types in nature that we're able to experience and see seasonally and the shifts and the changes.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I got this fun story from a reader who had thought maybe their type was a two, and um, but maybe six or a three was trying to figure it out a little bit.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: And she read the book and with jaw on the floor, she recognizes herself so clearly in the Enneagram two description of the story that I wrote and in the tree.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: But get this, Deanna.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: This is was so fun.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: She sent me a picture of a portrait that they had commissioned an artist to paint of their oak tree in their yard.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Now, this is a North Carolina space, and so it's this giant, gosh, I don't know, hundred-plus year old giant oak tree that is just stunning.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: The depiction is stunning.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: And the oak tree was representing the Enneagram 2 in the book.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: And not uh similar as well.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: She had written an article for a group project that she shared with me.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: And she thought she's just said, wow, I if I wasn't sure it was a two, now I am because I read your story and I I'm gonna share with you the one I wrote.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like you read it ahead of time or read my diary and just articulated it so well.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought that was a really fun.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was a fun for me moment as a writer and someone reading my book, but also for just wanting the twos to be seen and heard and known and just realize their unique story while oftentimes mistyped or misassigned, and also maybe just pat it on the head a little bit.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're just so good and you're such a giver.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: Hear essay, we know that title is nuanced and that label can feel really heavy sometimes.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: But may this be part of the invitation that says, hey, receive and and don't be afraid to get all that you need before you go help a hurting world that you are really good and gifted at helping.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Deanna, for being with me once again.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm pretty sure that I'm not gonna let next month's episode about the ones be our last on the podcast.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: I am making plans for 2027, but for now, thank you so, so much for being a part of today's conversation.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, you're welcome.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: My pleasure.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for joining me for the Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: If this conversation spoke to you, please share it with a friend.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: You can also visit simply wholehearted.com to take the free Enneagram quiz and also get your personalized podcast playlist specific for your Enneagram type.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: And remember, friend, your starting point doesn't have to be your stuff point.