Latest / Cristy M. Diaz Podcast Conversations from the Heart / Reciprocal IVF with Andrea Mole Part I

Transcript

Reciprocal IVF with Andrea Mole Part I · Cristy M. Diaz Podcast Conversations from the Heart

0:00
Hi everybody. Happy Wednesday and
0:02
welcome to another installment of Mamas
0:03
in Miami. I'm Christy Diaz and together
0:05
we're going to be navigating parenthood
0:07
with unwavering solidarity of one
0:09
another and fierce love. We just had
0:12
technical difficulties a little while
0:13
ago with Andrea Mole who's going to be
0:16
joining us and dropping knowledge on all
0:19
things our IVF. Hopefully we are going
0:22
to have another attempt at connecting
0:24
with her right now. There appears to be
0:27
some sort of hurricane outside and I
0:30
think as a result um we are having
0:32
technical difficulties. Did anybody hear
0:35
the National Hurricane Center report
0:37
anything about a storm? Because if that
0:39
is the case, I have not gotten gas in my
0:41
car. I haven't started my black beans
0:43
and I have not purchased enough toilet
0:45
paper to go around. Um so we're going to
0:47
try now. I know that KASK's without
0:49
power. Not sure if wherever Andrea is
0:51
there's no power. Uh good morning
0:53
everyone. We're going to just try again.
0:55
Okay, so bear with us. Here we
1:10
go. Okay, there we go.
1:16
How are you today? I'm good. How are
1:18
you? Good. We don't know what's going on
1:21
outside with this like last minute
1:23
hurricane, but just a couple seconds
1:25
ago, the sky was completely black and I
1:27
had to turn every light in my room on so
1:29
you could see me. Yes, store alert.
1:31
Somebody just reported. Well, you know
1:33
what, Andrea, I don't have my black
1:35
beans ready. I didn't
1:37
buy. I did not fill up my gas or car.
1:40
It's okay. You're in trouble if there's
1:42
a storm coming.
1:44
We had that weather here yesterday, but
1:46
it's good today. Well, apparently it may
1:49
turn into a depression once it crosses
1:51
state. So, we'll have to keep an eye on
1:53
that. Okay. Anyway, I apologize for the
1:55
technical difficulties, but thank you on
1:58
today and dropping your knowledge. I am
2:00
dying to know what is AR IVF. And before
2:03
I ask what RIVF is because you kind of
2:06
threw that curveball this morning, why
2:08
don't you go ahead introduce yourself to
2:10
everybody?
2:12
Um, my name is Andrea Mole as you said
2:15
before. Um, my wife and I did reciprocal
2:19
IVF, which is what RIVF stands for. Um,
2:23
do you want like a little backstory of
2:24
us or Okay. Okay. So, we been together
2:29
for a very long time. I'm 32 and we were
2:31
17 when we started dating. So, long long
2:34
time. Um, we met in elementary school
2:36
when we were 11. Uh, we became really
2:39
really close friends. Nothing going on,
2:41
just really good friends at the time.
2:43
She moved to Tampa. We were apart for a
2:45
little while. I searched for her
2:48
everywhere, found her on MySpace. So, we
2:51
started talking. I'm sure you remember
2:53
MySpace. We started talking on there
2:55
and, you know, just really great
2:57
friends. And then, like around 17, we
2:59
started dating, but from the very very
3:02
beginning, we knew we wanted kids and we
3:04
knew we wanted to get married. We just
3:06
kind of waited to excel in our careers
3:08
first. Um, I'm a nurse practitioner and
3:10
she's a doctor. So, you know, we did all
3:12
of that. We went to school in Puerto
3:14
Rico, moved back to Florida. Um, we got
3:17
married in a destination wedding in
3:19
2019. Our family was there. It was
3:22
lovely. And then we got our sperm donor
3:24
during CO. Um, and we chose to start
3:28
like that process. And we always knew we
3:30
wanted to do reciprocal IVF. So, so
3:33
please enlighten us for all of us that
3:35
don't know what reciprocal IVF is. What
3:39
it is, it's basically in vitro
3:40
fertilization, but it's reciprocal
3:42
because it's we get to carry each
3:44
other's eggs, each other's embryos. So,
3:47
it's a way for like same-sex couples to
3:49
just have a little more, you know, union
3:51
in the process. Um, so at first we knew
3:54
we wanted to do that and we were like,
3:56
how cool would it be if we could? And
3:57
then we realized it was actually a
3:59
thing. Um, and we found a clinic that
4:02
does that. I think all fertility clinics
4:04
do now. And um, so that's what we did. I
4:06
carried my wife's embryo to start. So
4:09
when in during COVID in 2020, you decide
4:13
right off the bat that you are ready to
4:15
start your family.
4:17
Did you go to the fertility clinic
4:20
before you started looking for a sperm
4:22
donor or does that happen once you have
4:24
your initial visit? How did how did you
4:26
even get paired with your clinic? So it
4:30
honestly everyone has a different order.
4:32
There's no right and wrong. There's some
4:33
people who find their sperm donors first
4:36
and then um go to their fertility
4:39
clinics or go to their fertility clinics
4:41
and get their sperm donor. It really
4:42
depends. I just did a ton of research,
4:45
you know, thanks to social media. I
4:47
found other couples that had done it. I
4:49
looked for clinics in Tampa. I found uh
4:51
Shady Grove Fertility, which I think
4:53
they have some locations in Miami. Um
4:56
they had pretty good reviews. I found
4:58
other same-sex couples that had
5:00
successful stories with them. And so I
5:02
decided to go along with that clinic.
5:04
But before I chose to even schedule a
5:07
consultation, I did some research on um
5:10
sperm banks and I came across two
5:13
different ones. There's really not many.
5:14
There's like three top sperm banks that
5:17
are used within the US and
5:18
internationally. We used California
5:21
Cryobank. Um and we just it's kind of
5:24
like a catalog where you go on you
5:26
create an an account and you start
5:28
looking for different sperm donors. So,
5:30
we chose to get that first and have that
5:33
and then schedule our consultation with
5:35
the fertility clinic to move forward.
5:38
And when you chose your sperm bank, it
5:41
was it just process of elimination
5:42
because you mentioned that there weren't
5:44
so many of them to choose from or was
5:47
there a deciding factor that led you to
5:49
that bank? I actually found like a
5:51
couple who um she shares her story
5:54
online. she did reciprocal IVF and she
5:56
shared that sperm bank. Um, and I it had
6:00
wonderful reviews and what it has that's
6:02
great is that it has like um photos from
6:05
when the donor was small and then
6:07
grown-up photos and then it has a full
6:10
genetic um panel that they run on the
6:13
donors before they can even submit a
6:15
sample. So, it was just it it was a good
6:18
bank and um we chose to go with that
6:20
one. We looked at two different ones,
6:22
but um there's not many options for I
6:24
feel like good sperm donors. So, it was
6:27
tough. I I I wouldn't have thought that
6:30
it was such a hard um when you choose
6:35
your sperm donor, is there any
6:37
identifying factors that you're looking
6:38
for characteristics in terms of features
6:41
or or was it really you wanted to be a
6:44
mom and and it didn't matter to you? So,
6:47
it doesn't matter at the end of the day,
6:49
but like when you start the process, um,
6:51
you know, you're really excited when you
6:53
start looking for a sperm donor and
6:55
because, you know, you're going to start
6:56
your family and then you start looking
6:58
on the website and it's like there's an
6:59
elephant in the room. You realize, all
7:01
right, I have to use someone that I
7:03
don't want to in order to start my
7:05
family, right? There's I only wish that
7:07
my wife and I could create this baby
7:09
together without using sperm, but we
7:11
need it. So the only thing that we were
7:13
really looking at was that it kind of
7:16
looked like us. You know, we wanted him
7:18
to have similar features. So like the
7:20
same skin tone, eye color, same hair
7:22
color. Um just so that it resembled us a
7:25
little more. And then in reality, just
7:27
the family history, you know, genetic
7:30
testing to make sure that they had
7:31
complete genetic testing and that that
7:34
was it. And then, you know, we were
7:35
really caught up on someone that had
7:37
photos when they were little and then
7:39
older cuz when you look at baby photos
7:41
and then you look at adult photos,
7:43
you're like, "Oh my god, they look
7:44
totally different." So, at first we were
7:46
set like on that. We were like, "It
7:48
needs to have an adult photo." But
7:49
again, there's not that many options.
7:51
So, you're like, you start getting so
7:53
picky. Oh, they look like this, they
7:55
look like that. And the reality is when
7:56
you meet someone, you don't you don't
7:59
worry about those things. you know, if
8:01
you get pregnant accidentally, you're
8:02
not worrying about their family history,
8:04
what they look like, or you kind of just
8:06
happens. So, we got less caught up on
8:09
that. And I honestly was at the point
8:11
where I was like, let's just pick
8:12
someone. Um, and we just did that. We we
8:16
made sure that it had the same features
8:18
as us, good um genetic background, and
8:21
at the end, I didn't want to know what
8:23
they look like as an adult. So, we kind
8:26
of chose someone just based off of a
8:28
baby photo and we're hoping that it's,
8:31
you know, a really good-look guy. Sure.
8:33
Um, but yeah, so that was one thing I
8:35
noticed as I started the process. I
8:37
didn't want to know, you know, because
8:38
it's something that I would think about.
8:40
So, I rather just kind of go with it and
8:44
yeah, we chose like that. And when
8:46
you're choosing a sperm donor, are you
8:48
already thinking in mind that you want
8:50
to give your child siblings? And if
8:52
that's the case, do you want it to be
8:54
from the same donor or are you okay with
8:57
multiple donations? How did you even
9:00
process that? So that's that's a a big
9:04
one because we do we want them to have
9:06
that genetic, you know, link. Uh we'd
9:08
like them to be siblings no matter what
9:11
they're going to be, but we want them to
9:12
have that genetic connection. So we
9:14
wanted to make sure that we got enough
9:16
of the same sperm donor to be able to
9:18
fertilize both of our eggs. Um, so the
9:21
way that that works is if so there's
9:24
some people that choose to do IUI, which
9:25
is just artificial insemination or in
9:27
vitro fertilization, which is what we
9:29
chose for that. When you do IUI, one
9:33
vial um is just for one try. So you need
9:37
a lot of vials. IUI is less likely to
9:40
stick and so there's people who have to
9:42
get up to eight to 10 vials. But we knew
9:44
we wanted to do IVF. And so for every
9:47
round of egg retrieval, which I'm sure
9:48
we'll talk about how that works, um you
9:51
only need one vial of the sperm donor.
9:54
So we knew that we would each do one egg
9:56
retrieval. Hopefully it was successful.
9:58
So we got two vials there. And then just
10:00
in case, we got two more. Um and that's
10:04
kind of how we did it. Four samples from
10:06
the same donor from the same donors so
10:08
that we would have enough for our
10:10
process. If you don't mind our asking,
10:13
just to the finances involved, how much
10:16
would one vial cost a family looking to
10:20
start a family? $1,000. Like that's the
10:23
range, but I know it's gone up. We we
10:25
purchased it four years ago already, so
10:27
I think it's gone up. I think it might
10:29
be 1,200,400, but per vial. So if you
10:32
have people who are doing IUI, it adds
10:35
up, you know. Sure. And does the donor
10:38
have a limit to how many donations he's
10:41
allowed to give? Yes, they do. I'm not
10:44
positive how many, but there's a limit.
10:46
And I think there's a limit on how many
10:48
families can use that donor as well. But
10:51
in the US, you're not including how many
10:53
families can in Europe and here and
10:55
there, you know. Oh, interesting. It
10:58
adds up. Is there a world where you can
11:01
say I do not want my future child to
11:04
have siblings outside of the siblings I
11:07
give them? So is there like a a sample
11:11
that a donation where you could say I
11:14
don't want the donor to give to anybody
11:16
else? I I'm not truthfully I'm not aware
11:20
from what I know that that doesn't
11:22
exist. um you go and this donor has a
11:25
certain amount of vials and anyone is
11:27
free to go and purchase them. Um I think
11:29
there's a cap like in the US for example
11:32
only a certain amount of families can
11:33
purchase from one donor but no I I don't
11:35
think you can do that. I I don't know if
11:36
you'd have to purchase all of their
11:38
vials or what but who can afford that?
11:40
These
11:41
donors they donate a lot. Um so no so
11:45
you always run that risk. Is that a
11:48
$4,000 charge on your credit card or is
11:51
there payment plans that can be placed
11:52
for it? How does that work? It's it's
11:55
the onetime
11:56
payment. So, it could get pricey. Oh,
11:59
yeah. Sperm's expensive.
12:03
How do you go through the process of
12:05
receiving your sample? Um, so it depends
12:08
if you're doing the insemination at home
12:10
or in a clinic. We did it in the
12:12
fertility clinic. So when it comes time
12:14
to do the egg retrieval, um we ship it
12:18
to the clinic like 3 4 days before,
12:20
nothing crazy, and then they store it
12:22
there. And it costs I want to say like
12:25
120 or less than 200 to ship, but um you
12:29
have to pay for for it to get to your
12:30
clinic. And do you receive all your
12:32
vials at once or No, no. No. So we only
12:36
I only ship two. My wife and I almost
12:39
did our egg retrieval the same day. We
12:41
were a day apart, so we could have used
12:43
one vial, but I didn't want to risk it.
12:45
And thankfully, I didn't. We were two
12:48
day a day apart. So, we we transferred
12:50
two vials. And so, we still have two at
12:52
the clinic at the clinic in California
12:55
or the clinic in the California clinic.
12:57
The fertility. And is there um were
13:01
there any legal implications that you
13:03
had to deal with with the donation of
13:05
the sperm? No. They have a very
13:08
organized process for all of this. I
13:11
mean, you sign a ton of paperwork when
13:13
you purchase it, but it's all there. Um,
13:16
and that's it. And once you purchase it
13:18
and you sign all the forms, like that
13:19
sperm is yours and you you can do
13:21
whatever you choose with it, you know.
13:23
Would you be open to your child the day
13:26
that he turns 18 for him to say, "I'd
13:29
like to meet the person that uh
13:32
donated." Are you have you even consider
13:34
that? I know the baby's so little still.
13:37
No, no. you talk about all these things
13:39
um before you have a baby. No matter
13:41
what, you don't want to again and like
13:43
you know um I think about it and it it
13:45
sucks, but you you always talk about
13:47
that. So at first we were very adamant
13:49
about doing a closed um like ID donor.
13:53
So you can get one that's open um or
13:56
closed or someone who for example right
13:58
now you can't contact but when our child
14:01
is 18 he can reach out to the clinic and
14:04
get all the information. Um, at first I
14:06
was set on it being anonymous, nothing.
14:11
But then I realized one were very
14:13
limited. So there were barely any
14:15
anonymous um, donors. And also, who am I
14:19
to take that right away from my son? Um,
14:22
so even though we'd hope that in the
14:24
future there's no need for him to reach
14:26
out because this is not a father, this
14:27
is simply a sperm donor, um, if that
14:30
curiosity ever were to come to surface,
14:33
he's open and I'd be supportive about
14:35
it. And my wife as well. That's great.
14:38
So you you spoke about just a medical
14:41
screening when you received your sperm
14:43
donation, but you don't really think
14:46
about what happens when sperm and egg
14:48
unite if there's a genetic mismatch
14:50
between you and the donor itself. And
14:53
here you're telling me that it's a
14:54
reciprocal where both of you are
14:56
extracting your eggs. So it's double the
15:00
probability of there being a genetic
15:02
mismatch. Uh is that is there some a
15:06
risk involved? Well, obviously there's a
15:07
risk involved. I guess the question is,
15:09
do you get a a discount and I'm sorry,
15:12
this ferm does not match both of us. I
15:15
to get somebody else. Is that even
15:17
something or is it I'm sorry, you bought
15:19
it. You you lost. No, they they work
15:21
with you. So, I think you're able
15:23
to switch if there ends up being some
15:26
sort of genetic abnormality that you
15:29
can't use the sperm donor. But there's a
15:31
there's fees. There's a bunch of fees,
15:32
you know. um you have to pay you don't
15:34
it's not like you get a 100% of your
15:36
money back and you choose a sperm donor
15:38
um you choose a new sperm donor you have
15:40
to pay a certain fee and then you're
15:42
able to to change it but that's a risk
15:45
you take when you pick it first you know
15:48
so that's why some couples wait to go to
15:50
a fertility clinic start the process and
15:52
then choose the sperm donor is there's
15:55
involved that might not work out as well
15:58
um other than something like that than a
15:59
genetic abnormality between sperm and
16:01
egg or there's like um a virus that they
16:05
always check to see if you're positive
16:06
for CMV virus and so they tell you if
16:10
the donors are positive or negative and
16:12
then you don't find out if you're
16:14
positive or negative till you do blood
16:16
work with the fertility clinic. So
16:17
that's something else that you'd have to
16:19
take into consideration if you're both
16:20
positive. Um and that would work the
16:23
same way with the the clinic. They'll
16:25
work with you to choose a new one, but
16:26
you still have to pay. That's good to
16:28
know that they'll work with you
16:30
considering that there's so few out
16:31
there and I had no idea that that was
16:33
the case. There's a It's not that
16:35
there's a few. There's a lot, but when
16:37
you narrow it down to someone that has
16:39
your skin color, there's not much.
16:42
There's really not. Maybe it's because
16:43
you're so picky in the moment or you're
16:46
so you know that. But there's there's
16:48
really not as much as I thought there
16:49
would be. I see. Okay. So, you have your
16:53
sperm donor chosen. You purchased four
16:57
vials and you're saying that you did
17:00
reciprocal IVF where you and your wife
17:02
both went to extract eggs. Yes. You
17:05
mentioned that you your son. So what h
17:10
so I'm assuming it's lette your wife
17:12
let's Where is your egg? They're frozen
17:17
at Shady Gro right now. Poor babies.
17:24
Okay. So you both extract eggs one day
17:28
apart.
17:30
Yours get frozen. Well, how many eggs
17:33
were you able to extract? So um we both
17:37
started it's cycle based. So we both
17:38
started the process together. Um I had
17:41
my extraction on the 8th of December and
17:43
she did on the 9th of December. So I had
17:45
about it was over 30 eggs extracted and
17:48
she had like 20 something. I we had a
17:50
lot of eggs extracted. out of that
17:52
amount only 20 or something fertilized
17:56
the next day. Um and then after a few
17:59
days after that only a certain amount
18:02
kept growing. So at the end I remember I
18:05
went from like 30 something cuz I don't
18:06
remember now the number. I went from
18:08
like 30 something to 12 and then five
18:11
and then all of a sudden the last day
18:13
cuz they monitor them for 5 days. All of
18:16
a sudden, the last day, six decided to
18:18
wake up and I had 12 eggs, embryos, I'm
18:21
sorry. Um, and my wife had, I believe,
18:25
like 14 embryos. 13 14. So, together we
18:29
had we had quite a bit. So, are all
18:32
those frozen? They're frozen. Yeah. Wow.
18:34
And your wife's extra eggs are also
18:37
frozen. Yeah. Wow. We didn't expect We
18:41
We were truly lucky. We didn't expect to
18:43
have that many embryos um make it, you
18:47
know. So when you say embryos, this is
18:50
fertilized from that one vial already.
18:52
Yeah. So each So for example, they
18:55
extracted my eggs. They mix those eggs
18:58
with the one vial of sperm like in a
19:01
petri dish or however they do it and
19:02
then they fertilize and those eggs turn
19:06
into embryos. And so that's what you're
19:08
left with at the end. So that was one
19:10
vial. And then my wife's eggs were were
19:12
fertilized with the other vial and then
19:15
we got those embryos. So you have So it
19:16
was one vial per I'm sorry. Two used
19:20
vials have already been used have
19:21
already been used. That's it. Yeah. And
19:25
so you So you you drove your wife one
19:29
day to get her eggs retrieved and then
19:31
day Yep.
19:35
Yep. That's what we did. Oh my goodness.
19:38
And then when do you implant? So then uh
19:41
it's fairly quick after that you decide
19:44
if you want to do PGTA testing which is
19:47
genetic testing on your embryos or not.
19:49
If you don't you can do a fresh transfer
19:51
which is just a few days after the
19:54
extraction but we chose to do the
19:55
genetic testing. So then you have to
19:57
wait a whole other cycle. So, um that
20:01
was in December and in February I was
20:04
supposed to transfer um the genetically
20:07
tested embryo. Um but as you do that
20:10
process, you know, there's a bunch of
20:11
hiccups down the line. So, literally the
20:14
week I was getting ready to um transfer,
20:17
they found that I had like a polip. So,
20:19
they has they had to remove that. So,
20:21
then that set everything back and we did
20:23
our transfer in May. But once you
20:25
extract the the eggs and you get your
20:27
embryos, it's fairly quick. It just it's
20:29
determined by whether you're going to
20:31
genetically test it and if your your
20:33
uterus uterus is ready, you know, it's
20:35
all psycho based. Cycle based. So
20:37
everything's like a month apart pretty
20:39
much. So you're going every 28 days. You
20:42
never know what's really going to pop up
20:43
because you've got all these hiccups
20:45
that come along the way. Yes. I thought
20:47
I was ready. You know, we were ready to
20:48
transfer February 23rd and then like 3
20:51
days before they were like, "Oh no, we
20:52
got to remove this." So it was like a
20:54
setback, but it it was meant to be. And
20:56
then April 24th, um, I'm sorry, May
20:58
24th, we transferred Oliver. Yeah.
21:02
Amazing. And did you know Oliver, did
21:05
you know his gender? No, we we didn't.
21:07
We chose not to know. You can if you
21:09
want. When you do the genetic testing,
21:11
they give you a form with all the
21:13
embryos. They're graded by how strong
21:15
they are. And then on the side, it tells
21:17
you like the sex. But we chose We chose
21:19
not to know. We wanted like the
21:21
surprise, of course. Was there ever an
21:24
option given to you to join uh to carry
21:26
two at once? No, they they don't they
21:29
don't really advise that anymore. Um
21:31
because no matter what, twin pregnancies
21:33
are high risk. So they just advise
21:37
against it. So that it's just one at a
21:40
time and hope it implants. Yeah, I'm
21:43
sure there's there's always, you know,
21:45
it's a base case. Like I'm sure
21:48
sometimes depending on your age and
21:50
stuff, if you're a little older, they
21:51
will implant too. Um, but we honestly
21:54
didn't even consider it in the
21:55
beginning. We knew it'd be one at a time
21:57
and we were ready for that. Um, and so
22:00
yeah, Andrea, I have a question. I don't
22:02
know if you heard our conversation with
22:03
Ana week, but he mentioned that when he
22:06
went through his invitro process down in
22:08
Bahankia, Colombia, they would not
22:10
implant uh dual genetic uh embryos. So,
22:15
in other words, um his husband's
22:18
fertilized egg and his fertilized egg,
22:20
is it the same in the United States? So,
22:23
I I saw that live and I found that
22:26
interesting because I didn't know that
22:27
either. Um we actually at first didn't
22:30
even want to know which embryo was
22:32
implanted. We wanted it to be a
22:33
surprise, but it like he said the
22:36
legality of it. So, at the end there's
22:38
so much paperwork. I just don't think
22:39
they know what to do in those cases. So,
22:42
that's why it's not advised. But that
22:44
would be beautiful because then you
22:46
wouldn't know if if it works, you have
22:47
one of each. Wonderful. And if it
22:49
doesn't, you don't know which at the end
22:50
doesn't matter. You know, care your
22:52
children no matter what. Yeah. I only
22:55
did my egg extraction because my wife
22:57
kept telling me like, "No, I want a
22:59
little you." But I would have totally
23:01
just done her eggs. To me, there was no
23:03
need for that genetic connection. And
23:05
now that I have Ali, I can tell you it
23:07
really doesn't matter. Well, there there
23:09
you go. And just that 30 minutes fly. We
23:12
are at our Oh, wow.
23:16
telling Andrea when we were prepping for
23:18
this call, you have no idea how quickly
23:20
30 minutes fly. Yeah, it does go really
23:22
quick. It really does. So, I hope you'll
23:25
be back and tell us about your actual
23:27
now we're talking about the invitro
23:28
journey and how you brought Oliver into
23:30
this world. We'll be back to discuss
23:32
that on Friday, everybody. So, for now,
23:35
please stay dry with whatever it is
23:37
that's going on. Um, keep your coffee
23:40
strong and your sanity in check,
23:42
everyone. Have a great week. All right.
23:44
Bye bye. Thank you.
23:47
[Music]