Latest / Drive with John Perlman / Johnson and Khan get R10 000 Bail Karinda Jagmohan, EWN Reporter

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Johnson and Khan get R10 000 Bail Karinda Jagmohan, EWN Reporter · Drive with John Perlman

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Let's focus our attention on the court center. Rather extraordinary day,
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: although I think it's fair to say after the Madlanga
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Commission appearance of the former head of the Independent Directorate
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Against Corruption in the police, in the National Prosecuting Authority,
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: forgive me, advocate Andrea Johnson after her Madlanga Commission, I
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: think it was fair to say most people thought there'd
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: be trouble down the pipeline. Nevertheless, to see one of
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: the most senior figures in the criminal justice system and
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: indeed somebody who was a potential candidate to head the
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: National Prosecuting Authority herself in the dock. Quite a thing.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Let's get a sense of what was happening in the
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: courtroom and some details on the charges and, crucially, the
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: what next. And welcome to 702 Drive, Corinda Jagmohan, our
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: EWN reporter. Corinda, before we go into the details of
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: the case and what was actually put forward before the
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: presiding officer... An extraordinary situation. I mean, who was there
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: to see Andrea Johnson in this position? And what was
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: the mood in court? I'm fascinated to hear.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Well, good day, John. I did miss the first part
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: of your question, but it wasn't a tax courtroom today. Actually,
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: more media representatives were there than people in the dock.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: But it was quite interesting to see even another magistrate
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: from another court coming to witness the proceedings. So it
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: took a while for the two accused to be processed.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: They eventually appeared just after two o'clock and both sitting
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: on either end of the dock, not very close at all.
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  Speaker 2: And I'm mentioning this because a lot of the accusations
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: around them revolve around the messages that they have sent
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: to each other back between 2018 and 2019. And this
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  Speaker 2: regarding the allegations that Andrea Johnson, at the time that
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  Speaker 2: she was the deputy director of the NPA, had essentially
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  Speaker 2: shared very sensitive information with Thoreau's Khan. So this goes
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: back to July 2018 when Khan was holding the rank
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: of major general at Crime Intelligence. Around the time, he
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: had an argument with a female brigadier, which led to
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: a physical confrontation. And it's alleged that Khan attacked the
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: employee by assaulting her using his hands, using a pen
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: to stab her, to hurt her, as well as a
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: paper file. She sustained injuries and she opened a criminal case. Now,
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: in the days after that, Khan actually submitted a warning
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  Speaker 2: statement to the police without being asked to, which raised
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  Speaker 2: concerns by investigators at the time as to why he
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  Speaker 2: would do this. It then had ultimately emerged after investigations
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: that prior to that, Johnson allegedly had received the contents
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: of the police docket from another source and then shared
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  Speaker 2: the docket with Khan, that docket including the type of
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: investigations that were going on against him, the type of
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: charges he would face as well. And so now together
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: they face four charges and Johnson faces another charge. So
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: the first charge is assault with intent to cause grievous
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  Speaker 2: bodily harm, of course, regarding the incident that occurred in 2018.
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  Speaker 2: And Johnson facing the same charge with a point noted
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: being an accessory to the crime in the aftermath, so
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: essentially her alleged failure to actually ensure that this case
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: would be prosecuted. They're both accused of defeating the ends
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: of justice because of the correspondence they shared, and they're
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: both accused of contravening the NPA Act. Johnson faces two
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: charges in that regard because of the position that she
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: had at the time. So they appeared in court, a
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: very brief appearance, granted 10,000 Rand bail each. and they'll
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: only be back in court in February, on the 2nd,
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: next year.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it really is quite an intriguing case. And, Corinda,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: once more, you know, giving us a strong sense that
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: out of the Madlanga Commission, there are real consequences. Do
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  Speaker 1: you think this is changing the mood? I mean, you've
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: covered crime and punishment as a reporter for many, many years,
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: but somehow things are moving out of Madlanga into the
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: courts and into disciplinary hearings quite quickly.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: Certainly so. I think in the recent months, you know,
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: in the aftermath of the commission starting, we're seeing these
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: cases move with speed. This is a case, John, that
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  Speaker 2: goes back to 2018. You know, it's quite a long
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: time now that they had been investigating it. And only
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: when these allegations of the messages shared between Johnson and
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  Speaker 2: Khan emerged at the commission do we see then the
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  Speaker 2: cases coming to the fore now. The NPA was investigating
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: the issue all along, but only now do we see
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  Speaker 2: not just those cases, but a number of other cases
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  Speaker 2: coming to the court. And from what I hear, from
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: sources on the ground, from sources who are at court today,
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: they say this is not the last arrest. A number
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: of people who have been under scrutiny at the commission
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  Speaker 2: for various allegations, the NPA, or rather the police, as
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: well as the NPA, are now zoning in on them
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  Speaker 2: using some of, essentially, the allegations that emerged to actually
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: carry out arrests. And in some cases... The arrest might
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: not be directly related to an accusation coming out of
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: the commission, meaning alleged capture of the police, but completely
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: different allegations used then, essentially when this person is placed
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: under arrest, to actually conduct further investigations into the other
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  Speaker 2: allegations of alleged state capture. So quite a few arrests,
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  Speaker 2: and this is definitely not the last.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Corinda Jagmahan, EWN reporter. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: I'd like your view to my mind at least. The
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: Madlanga Commission of Inquiries is leading to consequence and significant consequences.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: So it doesn't mean all the stables have been properly cleaned. Actually,
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  Speaker 1: I don't know why I'm bringing horses into that. But
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean? All the mess has by
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: no means been cleaned up. But there's action, there's activity.