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Coffee Smarter: Refractometers and Welcome Back! · Coffee People Podcast

0:00
No comment on my mask virtually, I wore it special for you.
0:04
You know, some people you just want to wear a mask even if
0:07
you're only seeing them over a zoom feed, I obviously I like
0:12
notice it. Well, that's interesting that I
0:15
was like, you know why, I even bother this is just, this is
0:19
just the world right now, I guess and with the mask on it
0:25
and I've learned to project. Hey, good morning everyone.
0:42
I am Ryan Walton, welcome back to the roast West Coast coffee
0:46
podcast, where I bring you the stories of coffee professionals
0:49
and Entrepreneurship and coffee education.
0:52
This is the first coffee smarter session of the season.
0:56
And my personal coffee Sensei, Chris O'Brien, the founder of
0:59
coffee cycle. Roasting is back.
1:02
He'll be covering the first half of the season for us.
1:04
And during that time, we'll get all coffee science.
1:07
Delve into some coffee Theory and coffee Trends and even dive
1:11
deep into how to develop flavors on the roasting side.
1:15
This episode is heavy on the science, as we talked about what
1:18
the f are refractometer, is and why someone might use it in
1:21
regards to coffee. I'm going to tell you up front
1:24
that I really struggle with coffee science.
1:27
I struggle with science in general and as such I have to
1:30
learn and relearn and relearn again a lot of those aspects
1:34
that help create a better understanding of Coffee.
1:37
It's one of the reasons I love doing these shows with Chris and
1:41
with Siri simran Khalsa of lofty coffee and the other guest
1:45
experts because not only did they teach me and you but they
1:48
somehow managed to break down complex ideas into bite-sized
1:52
pieces that are much easier to understand.
1:55
I got lost for moments at a time during this chat with Chris, but
1:59
he always brought it around to a point that made sense me even to
2:01
me. I'm assuming that you're here
2:04
right after listening to the season for feature interview.
2:07
With Danny Riggins of Altria coffee, and tea in San Diego.
2:10
If not be sure, not to miss that, because it was a really
2:14
great first episode of the Season.
2:16
Danny was honest and vulnerable in a way that I think will
2:19
really set a tone for the rest of the interviews.
2:21
We do this season, you can listen to that episode and all
2:25
of the roast West Coast coffee smarter and interview episodes
2:29
from the beginning on your favorite podcast platform or
2:32
just head to roast westcoast.com to stream the show and read the
2:36
news. Letter now, fill your mug or
2:39
refill, your mug, pull a shot of espresso and turn on the mood
2:43
lighting because it is time to get coffee, Smarter on the roast
2:47
West Coast coffee podcast. It's one of those things where
3:02
like if you can't laugh about this now, like I'm never going
3:05
to laugh about it, you know. Exactly.
3:08
Exactly. I went to, I went to a local
3:11
coffee shop this morning to get this coffee, I'm drinking right
3:14
now, which is lovely. And I was actually really,
3:18
really surprised. Like I had been there recently
3:20
where there wasn't a lot of mask-wearing going on by
3:22
customers but today, almost everybody was except for one guy
3:28
who Didn't have his mask on and then as he would like move
3:32
around, say to go pick up his coffee or look at something on a
3:35
shelf, he would take a mask that he had in his hand and like,
3:38
hold it up in front of his face. And I was like, I'm sure you're
3:43
doing something here like to prove a point or I don't even
3:46
know what you're doing, but be a lot easier just to put it on,
3:49
like, 4, the 5 signs, you're in the snort?
3:51
It was entertaining for me. I feel very strongly and fairly
3:55
confident that my n95 is are doing their job.
3:58
Bob, I've trimmed my beard down enough that I think that they
4:02
are staying in place. Yeah.
4:04
I mean, you're losing a lot of the advocacy.
4:07
Have you seen the the CDC approved facial hair II?
4:12
Just wanted it was very funny. I have seen that, and it's
4:15
actually why when I am out and about, I do have my 95, and then
4:18
I actually wear like another mask, over the top to, like,
4:21
hold it in place, and make sure it's like solid and it's a
4:24
little uncomfortable, but it's more effective.
4:28
Yeah. She got to do either way, I
4:31
appreciate that you're back here on the show.
4:33
I appreciate that. You're back to help us.
4:34
Get coffee smarter Chris, it's season four.
4:37
We're this is episode 61 give or take.
4:40
I didn't really count. And you've been on like a bunch
4:44
of them because you're the smartest coffee person, that's
4:46
willing to talk to me, you know, every week.
4:49
Wait, we've started a podcast. I thought I don't want to just
4:52
talk to you and hanging out. I didn't know this is.
4:55
Did you get my permission crap but knows who started to okay.
5:03
Yeah, for the record. Yeah, we're on.
5:06
We're on air right now and he didn't know that we were doing
5:09
this state of California because it is illegal to record someone
5:12
without their permission here. All right.
5:14
Well, I will say, I guess clicking the link probably was a
5:18
was subconscious. You know, nonverbal acceptance
5:22
of. Yes, I have a bunch of questions
5:25
for you this season. As always, I send you sent you a
5:30
list of possible questions to cover giving you like 12 minutes
5:35
to think about them before we talk.
5:37
So you generally go into these pretty cold, which is why I
5:40
think there's so much fun, but I want to make sure that we're
5:43
checking in on you and coffee cycle.
5:45
You are what six seven months into coffee cycle, roasting You
5:50
know how things been going? What have you learned?
5:53
The last time I checked in with you at the end of last season,
5:56
people were pretty stoked about what you were doing any changes
5:59
since then. No, everything's been going
6:03
real. Well, you know, I've certainly
6:05
learned a lot of lessons not just about getting the best out
6:08
of the coffee, but just, the whole infrastructure around the
6:13
coffee, roasting side of things, you know, and I have some
6:16
experience seeing that and being, you know, sort of a
6:19
ancillary part of that. But yeah, it's been, it's been
6:22
really, really excellent to learn that and sort of get my
6:25
fingers into like the meat of the, of the process.
6:29
But yeah, great feedback on it. So far, it's a lot of fun.
6:32
It's really interesting seeing for me, sort of the logistic
6:37
challenges in this sort of bridge size between tiny, tiny,
6:44
tiny little Nano Roasters, and decent-sized, you know,
6:47
successful Roasters. And we're kind of just, you
6:50
know, micro mini size where And I guess like the the easiest
6:55
example is that, you know, and not that you really ask for one
6:58
is you know you want to buy some green coffee, bean, green
7:01
coffee. Usually comes in 150 pound bag
7:04
and you think well? Okay, so if I can afford 150 lb
7:07
bag or if my business can afford to sell through, 150 pound bag,
7:11
cool. But then and then there are
7:13
some, some importers and producers that provide you with
7:15
smaller amounts, you know, 66 pounds, or 50 pounds or
7:18
whatever. But even if you can afford a 150
7:21
pound bag. And even if your business can
7:22
afford, You kind of need a minimum of three or four bags on
7:27
a pallet to make the shipping worthwhile.
7:29
This is suddenly to talk about 600 pounds of a single coffee,
7:33
you know? And for like a big cork off
7:36
here, if you're making a lot of Blends or selling a lot of cold
7:38
brew or something like that, if you're really doing some volume,
7:41
that's that's not too bad. But for someone, you know, in
7:44
this kind of smaller size bracket can be can be a
7:47
challenge and so it's been kind of fun to see other learn other
7:51
Roasters and meet other Roasters that are Sort of in that same
7:54
bracket and then how they can team up or working out together
7:58
to kind of kind of overcome that.
8:00
So, yeah, it's been fun. That feels like a very good
8:04
example of why a small coffee roaster would expand because
8:09
there, they by buying in bulk, they're bringing their prices
8:13
down, you know per per unit essentially and by expanding
8:17
into multiple locations, there then be able to distribute more
8:20
coffee than they would if they just have the one it Seems like
8:23
a valid reason for a business where you're not big enough yet
8:28
to really justify all of the purchases, but you are your kind
8:33
of getting in that door and trying to make it work.
8:36
What's the fastest way to get more coffee out of the world?
8:39
Have more places to distribute? Well, I mean economies of scale
8:44
is obviously, you know, play there.
8:47
But I mean if someone has been encouraging me to expand my
8:52
business, but Paramount recently I can't help but hear a little
8:57
bit of, maybe maybe intentional, pushing their pushing pushing,
9:03
no, that was not intentional to push you into doing that.
9:06
I just think it's a, it's a reasonable thought to say.
9:10
Well, if we're spending this much money and we can and we
9:13
need to buy more product, we need to find out where we're
9:16
going to put with that and I think you brought up a kind of
9:19
a, you brought up the shipping part of it.
9:21
And obviously there's nobody that isn't aware of shipping
9:24
logistic issues in the world right now, but it's like a good
9:28
reminder. Like you're not just buying this
9:29
off of Amazon. There's not like free next day.
9:31
Shipping like this is coffee. That's being traveling around
9:34
the world. In some cases and is on boats
9:37
and being handled by multiple people in order to It to your
9:40
shop. And so, there's this, this
9:43
calendar, this schedule that you're following that at least
9:46
for right now, may not be as efficient as it normally is.
9:50
Yeah absolutely. And yeah I mean obviously
9:54
overseas International Trade Logistics are crazy right now
9:59
and I'm just finding that in all kinds of different areas.
10:03
But yeah, you just do just adapt and move on and what else can
10:07
you do? I mean that's that's always been
10:09
the case of business and just because the world is a little,
10:11
you know, extra crazier in certain ways.
10:13
These days doesn't mean that we can't can't find a way around it
10:16
and find a way to move move forward.
10:20
Well, I think that's a good turning point to start asking
10:23
you some coffee questions. This comes up and shows all the
10:27
time and I think it came up in our show with you and I know
10:31
that when I've been in your shop, there have been people
10:33
talking about it, I want to know what what the heck a
10:38
refractometer is? And how does it help
10:42
specifically, make better coffee or measure coffee?
10:47
I did Google it and read that it is a Tool designed to measure
10:51
light, refraction through liquids but I don't understand
10:55
where you go from there. What does that even mean and why
10:58
do we care about that when it comes to a cup of coffee?
11:01
So I'm wondering if you can kind of help guide us through that.
11:05
Absolutely. So yeah, light refracting
11:08
through a liquids is the the base of it and one of the
11:11
interesting things about a refractometer in general is that
11:14
it's been in use in a lot of Industries for a pretty long
11:18
time, especially the Beer and wine industry, the liquor
11:22
Industries for sure and refractometer shines, the light
11:28
through a sample of liquid to give you some information about
11:31
what's in that liquid and that information can allow us to do
11:34
some data driven things with it. So basically, when we're
11:39
extracting coffee, when we're and a refractometer is used
11:43
there different types of refractometer and a
11:46
refractometer is used both at the farm level and at the Say
11:50
level and in coffee. The really cool thing is that we
11:55
didn't have a refractometer for use and at the cafe level until
12:01
maybe fifteen years ago or so. Sometime in the mid or early
12:05
2000s that VST a company that makes scientific devices came up
12:12
with the coffee. Refractometer, that was
12:14
affordable for use at the cafe level and at the time I think it
12:18
was something like a thousand dollars.
12:20
So affordable is is a relative term, you know the refractometer
12:24
that we use in our shop costs, a little over $300.
12:28
It's not by V St, it's a different brand but it's still
12:32
excellent. And VST is generally considered
12:34
the leader for the cafe level refractometer.
12:39
But the light is refracting and off of different compounds and
12:44
molecules inside the liquid. And so your refractometer can
12:50
Liberated to give you different information.
12:53
The refractometer that we use in the shop.
12:55
Gives us two different numbers. It gives us a number called
12:58
bricks and it gives us a number of T, DS & T, DS, stands for
13:04
total dissolved. Solids and Bricks is a rough
13:09
estimate. On how much sugar is in the
13:12
liquid because bricks is a measurement of how much the
13:16
light is refracting off of sucrose and sucrose.
13:20
Like molecules. And so that bricks number is
13:25
really used very commonly at the farm level in wine.
13:29
It's used to measure how ripe the grapes are.
13:32
And so with coffee it can be used to measure how ripe.
13:36
The coffee cherries are just to clarify there when you saying it
13:41
like a grape or a cherry, they're using it to see how much
13:44
sugar is in there. So that assuming there's more
13:47
sugar, it's going to be a rapper for Right, right.
13:51
So, you know, with coffee extractions, sort of similar to
13:56
fruit ripening, you know, you kind of want to get all this
14:00
good stuff and then no bad stuff.
14:02
If I leave fruit on my countertop on my kitchen table
14:05
ripening for too long, it's going to rot and mold, there's
14:09
going to be bad things. So, if I take like a banana, and
14:12
it's all green, and I let it sit there and ripen on my
14:14
countertop, it gets a little, like, brown spots on it and the
14:18
brown spottier banana. Has are sweeter than the green
14:22
bananas because sugars have sort of developed as it's been
14:25
ripening. Bricks can give you actual
14:28
number four, how many sugars have developed?
14:31
And obviously, if you let it over ripen, other things happen.
14:35
Usually you're going to have microbial activity going on
14:38
rotting and so on so forth. But the other number that we're
14:43
looking at the cafe level is total dissolved solids.
14:46
And so, you know, when you take your ground Dry coffee grounds
14:52
and you add them to water. While the end the water has
14:56
become Brown. And is no longer clear.
15:00
And that's because some of those dry brown coffee grounds are now
15:06
integrated with the water and have become the liquid beverage
15:10
that we know is coffee. That means that if we were to
15:13
take those now wet used grounds and we were to dry them back out
15:17
to the moisture level that they started at pretty dry that we
15:22
would actually have less coffee grounds there than when we
15:26
started because some of that coffee grounds is Ali dissolved
15:30
and made its way into our liquid beverage, right?
15:34
That just that just blew my mind.
15:36
I'm sorry for like the idea that the amount, I think I knew that
15:40
and like when I look, when I throw grinds away or recycle
15:43
them or, you know, put them in with the plants.
15:46
I think I knew that like part of me knew that like there wasn't
15:49
as much there as when I started but hearing you say it out loud
15:53
kind of just exploded something in my brain, right?
15:56
And it's sort of like kind of tricky to grasp it you know out
15:59
of this kind of visceral level that you're talking about now
16:02
because those grounds, Retain a lot of water.
16:05
They're not dry when you throw them in your compost from your
16:08
trash or whatever, they're still wet.
16:10
And those grounds are going to retain somewhere between two and
16:14
three times. There are starting weight in
16:16
water. So if you start with 20 grams of
16:18
dry coffee grounds, you brew up your cup of coffee those.
16:23
Those wet coffee grounds. At the end, are going to weigh
16:26
something like 60 + G, because 40 + G is going to be water and
16:33
a little less than 20 grand. G is going to be what your dry
16:36
coffee grounds would have been, but it's not 20 grams anymore
16:39
because some of it is found its way into your liquid coffee
16:42
beverage. This TDS number that we're
16:45
talking about is total dissolved.
16:46
Solids is a way of figuring out exactly how much of those
16:52
grounds have made their way into your liquid beverage but we're
16:56
not putting our whole cup of coffee into the refractometer.
16:59
We're only putting a small sample of it in there.
17:02
And so that TDS number is actually a percentage of the
17:05
liquid that is dissolved solids. So a number, you might get in a
17:10
brewed cup of coffee would be like a 1.3% TDS.
17:15
And so that means that 98 Point whatever percent of your brewed
17:21
coffee is still water. That's most of a cup of coffee
17:24
as water, but that small one percent was at one point, dry
17:29
coffee grounds and is now part of your legal.
17:31
Good coffee beverage and so if you take that percentage of the
17:35
liquid that is was one solid total dissolved solids and you
17:40
kind of work some math on it with the ratio of the liquid
17:44
beverage that has come out on the dry coffee grounds that went
17:47
in, you can get this number, that we refer to a lot in coffee
17:51
extraction and it's the extraction percentage.
17:55
What percentage of our dry coffee grounds.
17:58
Is gone and has manifested itself into this liquid, coffee
18:03
beverage instead. And generally, what we're
18:05
looking for is 18 to 22 percent in our in our brewed coffee, or,
18:10
or in our espresso, we want about 20% of those coffee
18:14
grounds, too low. No longer be in what you throw
18:18
in the compost, but now, to become a part of your of your
18:21
drink, and so, in some of our other episodes, we talked about
18:25
how coffee gets extracted and since I'm now teaching this
18:30
intro, coffee 101 class that I go over.
18:32
These, you know, principles of coffee extraction that I sort of
18:35
came up with, or extrapolated from much of other things.
18:38
I don't know exactly what we talked about on the show here.
18:40
Want to talk about in that class.
18:42
But, you know, basically, we have these very easy to extract
18:46
compounds acid, salts caffeine that sort of thing.
18:50
And then we have, you know, these bigger heavier complex
18:52
molecules sucrose fructose. These sugars And we want to
18:56
extract all the easy stuff. We want to extract all the way
19:00
up until the point. We get the sugars and then we
19:02
kind of want to stop then we don't want to continue extracted
19:06
using this refractometer refractometer device we can get
19:10
a hard number for how much of our coffee has been extracted
19:14
and we can have an idea of. Did I extract too much?
19:16
Did I not extract enough and sneak peek?
19:20
Most of the time, especially with lighter roasted coffees.
19:24
We're not extracting enough. If usually we want to extract
19:27
more, we're always trying to extract more.
19:29
It is possible to extract too much.
19:33
If you've sat and forgot your French Press, sitting on the
19:35
counter, you probably done something where you extracted
19:38
too much. And I'm like, well, I wish I
19:40
hadn't done that, but I'll still drink this cup of coffee today
19:42
because I need to wake up, but the refractometer gives us hard
19:46
data. Hard information that says this
19:48
is good in this isn't good and it's not It's not everything.
19:52
All right, you can start with having that data.
19:55
But at the end of the day, what you like and how you like the
19:58
taste of it always matters and so some people like under
20:02
extracted or over extracted, you know, to a certain degree.
20:07
But at least it gives us some kind of hard data points to work
20:09
off. And when we're talking about
20:12
that part of it is this, something you're doing as a
20:16
roaster as you're testing out roasts to see if You've roasted
20:22
it properly or is it something you're doing after the Brewing
20:25
process in the shop and an extension of that question would
20:29
be, is this something that is that a normal like an at-home
20:33
coffee person might do on a regular basis, just for
20:35
themselves. If you're at home you have to be
20:39
really into this this next level of coffee, coffee nerdism, I
20:45
guess you could put it, I do have a customer's you know, a
20:49
friend who does Use a refractometer at home, actually,
20:53
two or three that I know, but there I tend to know some pretty
20:57
esoteric Lee inclined coffee people.
21:01
And so, I know some folks that have really, really gone down
21:04
the rabbit hole with copy science because they find it
21:06
interesting and they're passionate about it.
21:08
And they have the resources to dedicate to that for, you know,
21:13
most most most home coffee, people know, I do not recommend,
21:16
you need that. But as far as do we use it to
21:20
control the roasting a Spokes or do we do it just to control the
21:23
brewing and aspect the generally falls on the Brewing aspect.
21:27
So, you know, if the Roasterie is providing a product, then the
21:33
cafe part of the business needs to make sure that they're
21:35
presenting the product appropriately that being said
21:39
and that, that being established, that the
21:42
refractometer is mainly used to ensure that the quality control
21:47
of showcasing. The Roaster is product is done.
21:49
Well, it can get give some valuable data back to the
21:54
roasting side of things and that is in the aspect of determining
22:00
solubility. So some coffees extract easier
22:04
than others. There's some noted Origins that
22:07
tend to have higher solubility, Sumatra coffees, Brazil coffees
22:13
tend to extract fairly easily, comparatively and some, do not.
22:18
And so, if I have the same extraction numbers as far as
22:24
Brew time, grind setting and ratio and temperature.
22:29
And if one coffee extracts, at a higher percentage than another,
22:34
I can infer that that coffee is more soluble as more easily
22:38
extracted than the other. That can be useful for
22:42
determining sort of cut off points for what is severable and
22:46
what isn't survival. So, you know, we do a lot of
22:48
pour overs in my shop. So our Sumatra coffee tends to
22:51
be very soluble. We tend to extract it all the
22:54
way, you know, 21 + % often. I really enjoy that coffee at 18
23:00
to 20 percent extraction. And generally, for us, we're
23:04
pretty comfortable serving in a range of Ideal extraction.
23:09
And not saying that every cup is As perfect as it needs to be.
23:12
Because a professional taster might say that this particular
23:16
coffee is best at 20% every time with this ratio for us.
23:23
We say hey look most people don't have the palate to
23:26
determine those incredibly subtle differences but we know
23:30
the tween 18 and 22. This coffee is quite good.
23:34
So if the Sumatra starts draining down very quickly and
23:39
not having as much contact time with the coffee, Well that's
23:42
okay because I know that even if it extracts faster or the Brew
23:47
time is faster than the other coffees that were serving, it's
23:50
still going to cross that 18 percent threshold because it's a
23:53
very soluble coffee so that can give good data back to the
23:57
Roasterie to say, oh, well, this coffee might do better at a
24:02
slightly different roast, but that's not usually the way that
24:05
we're using it. Usually when we find out the
24:08
different, solubility is of coffee its most Useful for
24:11
determining, whether we're going to blend that coffee.
24:15
Because while we love to celebrate single Origins and the
24:20
origins of the farm and the variety.
24:22
And the processing, it can be nice to blend coffees, it can be
24:27
nice to blend them to provide a cup that has either deliberate
24:31
tasting notes, or specific balance of tasting notes that
24:35
can't be found in your current offerings of single Origins.
24:39
But if you're blending a very insoluble coffee, with a very
24:43
highly soluble coffee, then you're going to either under
24:46
extract, the element of the coffee, that is insoluble and
24:50
properly extract. The one that is very soluble or
24:53
you're going to over extract, the one that is very soluble and
24:57
properly extract. The one that is insoluble or
25:00
you're going to make a mix of both of them and you're going to
25:03
over extract one and under extract the other.
25:06
So this really comes into play mostly with a spray.
25:09
Blends and since we focus on doing single origin espressos
25:13
and sing large and pour overs, it's not really you know, super
25:17
relevant for us but it is Data, that's nice to have just to say,
25:21
okay, the Sumatra is draining down, a little fast that's going
25:25
to be fine. Today, we can, you know, adjust
25:27
the grind setting and slow it down.
25:29
But even if we didn't do that, we know this cup is still very
25:32
servable, still an excellent, 19 percent, or 18 and a half
25:35
percent extraction. It's just, every time I talk to
25:39
you, you I'm just overwhelmed by how much science goes into
25:42
drinking a cup of coffee and for someone like me, who is very not
25:46
sciency for the record, I stopped taking science sophomore
25:50
year of high school, all of this stuff, seems so crazy.
25:53
But then when I'm actually thinking about it, I do a lot of
25:56
things. You know what?
25:57
I'm making my coffee that are based in science and I just
26:01
don't see them that way. And you being on that side of
26:04
things, being a roaster and a cafe owner, you see the science
26:08
of it. It's actually valuable to making
26:11
a better product and that's just such a unique kind of cool
26:13
thing. I feel like that's as much
26:16
coffee smartening smartening, smarter smarter ring, coffee
26:21
order, Anning getting coffee smarter that I can handle today,
26:24
Chris, but before we go, I want to ask you something.
26:28
I just want to learn a little bit more about you and I know a
26:31
lot about you but I keep finding that there's a lot.
26:34
I don't know. So why am I worried?
26:39
No, I want people to know you you're on the show a lot.
26:42
We learned a lot about you at the end of last season, but
26:45
about your journey and coffee, but I'm wondering about you and
26:48
your personal life, you're an avid cyclist daily.
26:52
Commuter type of cyclists, you love coffee.
26:55
What else are you doing for fun? Out in the world, when you're
26:58
not doing those two things, which I know is, like, ninety
27:00
seven and a half percent of your time.
27:03
Well, I did go to the zoo yesterday, which was a ton of
27:06
fun. But I'd say my number one,
27:09
Directivity outside of cycling and coffee.
27:11
Which is, you know, as already established is, I love to read
27:14
and I read a lot of Science Fiction and Fantasy and that's
27:18
been kind of my go-to hobby ever since I was a kid and I just, I
27:23
just love to just get lost in a book.
27:25
It doesn't have to be a book about making yourself better.
27:28
I like, you know, Wizards and dragons and lasers in space, but
27:34
yeah, I love to just get lost in a book and, you know, book in a
27:37
cup of coffee, is one of my Favorite favorite ways to start
27:40
a day or two, you know, have have a nice relaxing time.
27:43
And, yeah, that's that's kind of my go-to.
27:46
I feel like you are the type of person who would read a science
27:51
fiction book and then watch the movie that was made based on
27:54
that science fiction book kind of with the sole purpose of
27:58
judging that film based on what you read in the book.
28:02
You know, it does happen a little bit.
28:07
I will say that, you know, recently at least there was
28:10
those one fantasy thing when I was watching that that I thought
28:13
was better than the book so you know that critical critical
28:17
aspect can actually flip around and that's something that, you
28:21
know, an e-book readers out there.
28:22
Don't hate me for saying that. All right, I like to think that
28:25
it's possible, and I do think it did happen once, but I don't
28:28
want to mention the specific one in case I get, Backlash.
28:34
If I did, if I guess it. Will you tell me if I'm right?
28:37
I don't know if it's time for you to go through all this.
28:40
I just wonder, I'll just make one.
28:42
Guess my guess is the expanse. No, I actually really enjoyed
28:48
those books and the show, I watched a little bit of but I
28:52
wasn't crazy about, it wasn't bad, it was good.
28:55
But really interesting series because it's you know, it's not
28:58
written by an author, it's written by two authors on their
29:01
one pen name and they both have kind of some experience in
29:05
writing with the goal of televising.
29:09
So, you know, they're there. There's certainly an
29:12
intentionality to their their novels that That translates very
29:17
well to show. So I think I was a good guess.
29:20
But no, I actually like the books better get to know, I'll
29:25
share the link to those. I've actually been reading those
29:27
as well, a friend of mine turned me on to those and they are
29:30
engrossing. But they are frustrating because
29:33
you'll read for a month and you finish a book and then you like
29:37
there's seven more of these. Like I want to know what happens
29:40
in the end but it's kind of like life where there's a Continuing
29:44
Story and each book leads into the next.
29:46
Thing in the next thing and the next thing and I love that but
29:49
there's a weird. I don't want to say weird, I'm
29:51
sure it's intentional, but there seems to be a lot of overlap
29:55
between the politics and economy of our current world.
30:00
Except, you know, in that book. It's in space.
30:04
Well, you know what I've long thought that?
30:06
That's when one of the things that really draws me to Science
30:10
Fiction and Fantasy is, it's basically an excuse to explore
30:14
some fullest Topical questions and moral questions.
30:19
If we have the power to do this, if this thing doesn't matter
30:21
anymore. If you know, the world is
30:24
different in this way, how does our innate Humanity respond in
30:28
that situation? And you know, interesting is
30:31
coffee is nothing is more interesting than people.
30:35
We are the most complex, weird strange and unfathomable of
30:41
anything that you can explore and so much.
30:44
As I said that I like to read These things because, you know,
30:47
they don't necessarily make me a better person or, you know,
30:49
improve my understanding of anything in particular.
30:53
I do. I do love to explore those.
30:55
Those moral boundaries, and those philosophical questions in
30:58
novel form. Chris, thank you for being back.
31:03
I'm excited to have you back for season 4.
31:06
Thank you again, for all of the time and effort.
31:09
You put into this show. I'm going to talk to you again
31:12
soon and get everyone coffee smartening, or It was a treat
31:16
today. Ryan, thank you.
31:18
And appreciate you letting me stumble through some half-baked
31:22
thoughts. As I'm finishing my morning
31:24
coffee here, somehow, Chris turned using
31:39
refractometer, 's and coffee. And a question about what he
31:43
does in his free time into an I need to point out the joys found
31:47
in the complexity of humanity in what feels like a very chaotic
31:51
moment in the timeline of History.
31:55
Well done, and I really do feel coffee smarter today to recap.
32:01
Refractometer is our scientific tools, designed to measure
32:04
light, refraction through liquids for coffee and
32:07
particular. They are often used on the
32:09
Brewing side of an operation, to measure two things, TDS or total
32:15
dissolved. Solids.
32:16
Meaning the amount of coffee grounds that have fully
32:19
dissolved into the water, at it to the brew and Bricks spelled
32:23
Bri X, which measures sucrose or sugar content.
32:29
So? Okay now we've learned about
32:30
refractometer 's, what does that mean for our daily coffee
32:34
consumption? For me not much will change
32:36
other than I might appreciate the wonders of what is
32:38
happening, a little bit more while in the moment.
32:41
So much science goes into a cup of coffee and since I'm the one
32:45
making the cut, Of coffee each day by extension.
32:48
I think that makes me a scientist and it probably makes
32:51
you a scientist, hang on. I'm adding that to my resume.
32:57
And speaking of great podcast, transitions some awesome coffee
33:02
professionals and fellow scientists support this show
33:06
because of all of you who choose to pay for all of this coffee
33:09
content, which is Amazing. By the way, this podcast gets
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Content you are why the show keeps getting bigger and better
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our industry Partners can all be found on the website or in this
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Coffee Roasters, who is our newest partner Cafe litter in
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Solana Beach where they do donut, Wednesday's mostra coffee
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company which inspires with their continued growth and
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Innovation and coffee cycle. Roasting as mentioned on the
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show. Chris is now hosting coffee
33:50
smarter classes with in-depth introductions to Coffee
33:53
chemistry. The economy of coffee around The
33:56
world and coffee flavor profiling.
33:59
You can find tickets to upcoming small group classes on coffee.
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Cycle roasting.com. Also, check out leap coffee who
34:06
has a new Cafe space at Sabre Springs.
34:09
Zoom bar, coffee and tea, Maria coffee who offer premium online,
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subscriptions steady-state, coffee, roasting, who have
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kindly invited me in to explore as well as Inspire with their
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own attention to detail. And don't forget roast West
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Coast will be at Camp, coffee company, in February March.
34:26
Or calendar, Saturday morning, February 19th from nine to noon.
34:29
I hope you come and join me and let me know why you love coffee,
34:33
finally. Thank you to Cape Horn coffee
34:35
importers. And to first, like, whiskey, for
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being sponsors of this show had to roast westcoast.com for all
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of those links and check out the other coffee content, including
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some updates, some coffee news, some coffee education, and
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please be sending your coffee questions on Instagram at roast
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West Coast. And I'll ask our coffee experts.
34:54
As many as I can. Chris is going to be back next
34:58
week to talk about developing flavor profiles during the
35:01
roasting process. Thank you for listening
35:04
everyone. This episode of the roast West
35:06
Coast coffee. Podcast is was has been written
35:10
produced and recorded by me Ryan Walt.
35:12
I hope this show has found you happy healthy and with at least
35:17
enough sanity and coffee to make it through the day.
35:20
Please always tip your Baristas now more than ever and be sure
35:24
to drink. Good coffee.
35:55
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