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Under Canvas Acquires The Fields! Irene Wood Exclusive (Roundtable Discussion) · Outdoor Hospitality Podcast: Glamping, STR, Resorts, Unique Stays, RV Parks, RV Resorts & Campgrounds

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: I love the thrill of the kill, and by the kill, I don't mean the kill of the deal, I mean the kill of execution, like being the best at whatever it is that I do.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like I love that feeling of knowing that I'm a competitor, and I um and I could go back into this space, or I could go do a hotel, or I could be a ho own a restaurant, and I have lots of uh knives that have been my tools that are knives that have been sharpened that would allow me to play a game again.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome back to another episode of the Unique Hospitality Podcast.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_03: I'm your host, Connor Schwab, joined by Nick Berslow.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_03: And we are uh have a huge treat today, and that is the you might have heard there's some industry-breaking news that the fields was just acquired by Under Canvas, which is uh a big deal and one of the first acquisitions of this kind, which is you know big news for all the glamping operators out there for you know a small independent boutique operator to be acquired by a large institutional player.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: The Fields is founded by Irene Wood, who's a good friend of Nick and I.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_03: And today we we get to have her on to dive into you know how that process went, lessons learned, what she's up to now, where she sees the industry going.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um and yeah, man, Irene's just the best.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_03: She's she's she's kind of the goat.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's a great episode.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, this is uh super exciting uh news for you know for everyone in the industry, really.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_04: First of all, you know, very happy for Irene, who's put a ton of work into the fields, which is out in Michigan since I think 2018 it was founded.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um Irene has been on the podcast if you want to go back and listen to a previous episode to hear her story.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so amazing news for her.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_04: Um obviously a lot of hard work paying off.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_04: Interesting actually that it's acquired by Under Canvas because obviously we had Sarah from Under Canvas on who had a similar journey, uh, but she sold in about 2018-2019.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_04: And again, another kind of trailblazer in the industry whose uh hard work core paid off.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_04: So it's all good, always good to see that.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_04: But also exciting news for the industry.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, every acquisition like this is uh validation for you know what we're trying to do.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_04: Makes the industry seem a little bit more serious and and and you know, create uh people will see it as an opportunity to get involved, you know, whether it's private equity or investment firms, uh, which is always good for you know independent operators looking for an exit.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_04: So uh super exciting for them both.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_04: And yeah, we had Irene on today, fantastic guest as ever.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_04: She just the reason why she's been so successful and why the field has been so successful is she just gets what it what it takes to be a top operator.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_04: She lives in Brees Glampen and everything she does, lives in Breeze Hospitality, and she just understands what it takes to create a world-class guest experience.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_04: So that's why um her business has been acquired.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and yeah, it was great to kind of find out how that process came about, uh, the advice she'd give to people looking to kind of follow in her footsteps.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, and yeah, it's always a pleasure to speak to and listen to Irene, who you know is is just so so wise when it comes to operating these businesses.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, I'm um I was super excited to have her back on.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, and I guess without further ado, here's Irene.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome back to another episode of the Unique Hospitality Podcasts.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_03: I'm your host, Connor Schwab, joined by Nick Perslow and a very special guest today, a returning guest, but uh with some very exciting updates.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_03: Irene Wood.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_03: Irene, welcome to the show.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me back again.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Feels like I was just here, I don't know, yesterday, an hour ago, six years ago, who knows?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: Time has condensed.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_03: And uh Nick did an episode with Irene.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, how long ago do you think it was, Nick?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_04: Uh it was 2024, I think.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_04: I think maybe latter half of that year, but you you're Irene, I'm the same.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_04: I've got I've got absolutely no idea.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was like, light screens for you too, so let's have it yourself.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: We're moving at lightning speed.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, so if uh uh Irene uh founded, created, and uh ran the Fields up in Michigan.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_03: And if you haven't heard of the Fields, then I'm not sure if you've had your your head in the sand in this industry, but you know, she's she's very well known in the space, um, very involved in the American Glamping Association at the Glamping Show.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's kind of been a household name in the in the glamping space.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um and recently she became her property, the fields uh in up in Michigan became the first ever acquisition of Under Canvas, which is massively exciting and quite uh, I think uh just a compliment to the work and the the brand and the business that Irene has built to uh attract such a reputable um investor and brand in the space.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_03: So we're really excited to dive into that as well as other things in Irene's world today.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um but Irene, maybe you could just give us a real brief intro on like what the fields is, kind of 60 seconds for anyone who who isn't familiar.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: So like my elevator pitch.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's so weird because it's not mine anymore.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: So to be able to talk about it is a little funky.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and it's funny because I'm just gonna say this.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Do you ever have moments of vanity?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Or am I the am I the only person?
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_04: Oh I know Nick does.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, after I get back from the gym and I'm looking in the mirror, yeah.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_04: Well, he's looking.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, no, so really the whole process.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: So the fields is my baby.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: It started actually after a trip that I had gone and experienced this sort of travel with collective retreats.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: So about eight years ago, my husband and I went out to their property at the time, it was in Big Sky.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: We stayed on their property, we did all the adventure things.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: We white rotter rafted, we float fished, we um played Scrabble at night.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: We just were one of the best vacations we ever had.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I could I could argue that it was a milestone birthday.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: I could argue that it was over our anniversary weekend, I could say there was a lot of factors at play.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: But really what I loved most was we had two type A personalities who were used to perfect weather vacations.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we were like changing itineraries when the weather wasn't going to be good to where we were going because we both worked so hard.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we were just managing every portion of our vacation.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: What I loved about this specific trip was it rained one day, it snowed the next day, the weather was terrible, the mosquitoes were outrageous.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: We had zero control and we loved it.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: We napped, which we never do, we played Scrabble, which we never do.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: We drank wine, like sitting on a bed, which we haven't done since we started dating.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: There was just a lot of the um a lot of the playful things that you get to do when you do a trip like this that you can't do when you're going and staying at a$5,000 night,$4,000 night,$3,000 a night,$2,000 a night location.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember we had gotten back from that trip, and my husband was like, you know, that was such a great trip.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: We should do something like that close to home.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: And lo and behold, nobody had tapped the Midwest.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like the crazy person that I am, and you guys all know me now, I called Pete and I was like, hey, stayed at your property.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um thinking that you should open up one in Michigan and I'll be your operator.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: And he never called back.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then after like six weeks of doing the call, up into including the, hey, we have a mutual friend.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, I stayed on your property, have some feedback.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, like all the things that you would normally think would get you the call back, I didn't get.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I went home one day and I told my husband, I go, I'm gonna do it.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, Do what?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: I go, you know that whole like clamping thing that we did out west?
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna do it in Michigan.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: And he was like, I just thought maybe you were just like daydreaming that.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't really think you were going to do it.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: And um, thus the feels was born.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: So the feels was born out of just kind of the love.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not really an outdoorsy person.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to tell you, I'm gonna be really clear, don't love the outdoors.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: I love what feelings get invigorated when I'm in the outdoors or when I'm doing things that are pretty simple.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: So what I find to be as glamping when I hate the word, but I love it's like life's simplest pleasures, like this return to just simplicity and what that does for creativity, what it does for love, what it does for connection.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: And um, that's the part that I love the most of it.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: So that was what the fields was born on.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: It was born on this love of authenticity, simplicity, and um the slow slowness of life.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then how do I create that in a way that the other irones of the world or people that are similar to me have that opportunity to kind of experience it too?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_04: Not 60 seconds, but you get the and so what did what did the fields become from that that vision?
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so originally, and again, this was I mean, everybody's still struggling in the same spot.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: I started off with 10 tents.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: These were like the typical canvas, Montana Canvas, Safari style tents with bathrooms, and a tiny little pavilion that was our gathering space.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: From there, you know, our business kind of we did a really nice job as a team executing our vision and strategy, and that allowed us to do things like make reinvestments, capital investments, add more units, add more um like ancillary things.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: We put a spa in, we put a restaurant in, um, we put a pool in, we then expanded into cottages so that we, as the consumer experienced us, we were able to layer in new experiences that still had them feeling like they wanted to come experience us at its peers form, but then get the elevated form year over year over year.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_04: And you the episode that you came on last was um with with Ben Wolf umara, and and the the theme of the episode was kind of hands-on versus hands-off hospitality, with Ben's site being uh, you know, pretty hands-off minimal staff interaction, whereas you're on the other end of the scale, uh, and you know, you wanted those spontaneous interactions with guests, right?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_04: Both with with you and your staff, and and that was a core part of the experience.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I can't imagine a world, and I I really believe this.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think Ben's wrong.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I I don't know most people say that about Ben.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: Ben's right in a lot of things, but I think in this particular area, he's wrong.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that hospitality, I can't think of a single brand that has lasted the test of time that has been hands-off.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_04: Should we have a round two?
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_04: Should we call Ben up now?
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: But I think we have entered maybe in a cycle where people are antisocial and they're on their phones and they're looking for a way to like disconnect, disconnect.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: But I think when it comes to hospitality, which this falls under the category of, I think that it is always the missed opportunity when you cannot put a human touch to it.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and especially with, I mean, especially with AI, like, you know, with just so many tasks being able to be automated in such a sophisticated way, particularly like messaging, phone calls, emails, all of that, I think it adds more value to the to the human touch component, and whether that's a check-in or when you're on site or a phone call from a real human, you know, things like that, I think mean more.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_03: And then what what did what did the property look like you know in its final year in terms of I know F and B was a big component, I know you expanded the unit count.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, what did it look like in its in its latest year?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so in the in the year before I sold, which um I'll tell you we we had a total of, so we started with 10 tenths, then we added nine more for a total of 29.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Then what we did was we expanded primitives just to kind of see do we have some people that want to enter the market by the market meaning we'll call our field family, our field guests who are aspirational but can't hit that 400, 450 a night.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: So we put primitives in.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: So then we went to four primitives, 19 tents for a total of 23 units.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Then what we did was we said, okay, guests are starting to evolve.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: Tents are cool, we're in year six with tents.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: We've got to start to meet the next layer of guests.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: The guest that's found us, who I and I always put guests in buckets, but I'm gonna use her name as Maude for an example.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: She's French, she shows up in her Chanel rain boots, and it's stink bug season.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll call stink bug season as if it is one.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's just when they show up, they're there.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: And she doesn't want to see them, doesn't even want to know that they exist.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you do that in a tent?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: You can't.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: So what we did was we worked with an architect and a local designer and we put cottages in.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: So by the time that we ended at the end of last year, we had four primitives, nine, no, ten tents, and then nine cottages.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the cottages had queens, the other cottages had kings, and then we had done the work to do expansion for an additional uh two two additional phases, and those phases included um two more septics and a total of approximately 40 more sites.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_03: This is a bit of a tangent, but I think it's worth it.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: Can you can you tell me a little bit more about what the primitive sites were like compared to the nicer tents?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so they're pretty typical of what you might expect.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: So primitives I would call rustics or so no bathrooms.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: So exactly the same kind of tent.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: King bed, you know, serviced, um, no power.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: So like power would be batteried, battery-packed.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: So we were hitting the guests at the 150 a night range, not at the 450 a night range.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then they would have bag showers, so like solar bag showers, they would go to the, you know, we would behind the tents, we had these little decks with bamboo fences that they could go in and bag shower it or go up to the main building um for a restroom.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_03: So I have a client that I or sorry, I have a theory that I usually tell clients I'd be really curious on your feedback, and that is, and this mostly comes from my work in the R V side of the industry where when RV sites try to add clamping units, there's just a huge price ceiling.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_03: You know, they're not gonna be able to get above 300 a night for a glamping unit, even if the bathroom is super nice at an RV resort, just because it's at an RV resort.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: And so that kind of translated into the glamping space for me where it was like my theory is essentially that like your the the the peak of your price is gonna be somewhat anchored by your lowest priced unit.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I often cache it's kind of like a rubber band almost, like um for the luxury feel of the entire property, could be anchored by the lowest price unit.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: So like if someone's putting in really nice clamping units, I would usually caution them against putting in primitive campgrounds or RV sites or even potentially a unit like without a bathroom that's considerably a lower price point.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um I would just I was curious what your opinion is on that, if you agree or disagree.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: I never it never affected the upper units.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: What it did affect was let's say I have 100% occupancy in the upper two units, cottages, tents, the primitives.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: It was really we thought maybe we would sell out of those, we would get more people in there, or we would get people that were um maybe not of the same, I'm not using the word demographic, but maybe of the same, like maybe somebody who was a little bit more rustic mixing with somebody who wanted caviar and champagne, would that affect the experience of the 75% of camp that has champagne and caviar?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: And what we found actually, the answer that was no, but we also found it was the hardest ones for us to fill were the primitives.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because we, I think some of it was we had already started a brand that everybody had a bathroom.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then we went to everybody has a bathroom, and now people have cottages.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so then the rest of the people, because it's we put them not in the prime locations, like I would call it a subprime location, but we were like, man, we're having a really hard time getting people to come in and stay in these.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: We can manipulate the price even low, but our guess, our clientele is like, no, thank you.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not staying somewhere where there's no electricity, I don't have a bathroom.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: So it was all right, then we we try that for a year, we're not getting the occupancy.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody's wanting those to have bathrooms.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: What does it take for us to get those bath those with bathrooms?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: So phase one and phase two took that area that was primitives that we were kind of testing out how does that feel?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: How does service feel in this area?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: And um, as part of the phase one and phase two expansion from this year forward, which isn't my expansion, but the one that I put in play.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: So whatever undercamus does, they do, but is um all with bathrooms.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_03: Gotcha.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, thank you.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for humoring me.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_03: All right, so you know, I'm sure the the listeners are are dying to know, you know, what can you tell us about your, you know, selling your business to to undercampus?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, I'll start with what can I tell you about selling a business?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think that there is something to be said about selling a business that unless unless you're in the room, you never know what's in the room.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's like giving birth to a child.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: You guys will never know what that feels like.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: Now you can see it through the eyes of your partner, but the reality is you're never gonna know what that pain feels like until you go through it.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll start with if anybody ever wondered what it's like to sell a business, it's painful.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: It is painful in a multitude of ways, and it's something that somebody who has never started a business could never know.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: So when you start a business, like all of you, um you started with a little seed in your mind, and it has stories like where you came up with the name of your business, the location you choose for your business, the unit types, the team that you hire, and all the little intricate decisions that you make, your POS system, your booking platform, where you make your bank account, all of those things that you take for granted because they're burdens to your business while you're running your business, they get um, they're these pieces of memory that just kind of get built up.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I have to assume, um, because at the time, and I'll be really candid, under canvas wasn't the only person looking at the fields.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: We actually had, and I didn't know what was happening, but I knew something must have been in the market, but we had three different, I'll call strategics who were looking at me.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'll start with I was um I'm you're outwitted.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: If you are an independent um person and you didn't grow up around whether it's private equity or banks or bankers or brokers, and that's just not in your day-to-day repertoire.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: There is a lot of um skill out there that takes your business, and I'll use a home or a business, and it devalues it or values it.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll use a home for an example.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: You want to buy a house, you go to a house, they do the inspection, and then all of a sudden, you're for this conversation,$500,000 house is now a$400,000 house.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: You didn't know your roof needed something, you didn't know that you know, the two people that somebody died in your house before that diminished its value.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's like all the all the skeletons come out of the closet.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I'll tell you the whole process of selling took about a year.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it was I learned more in the last eight years of running the business and selling the business than I could ever learn, ever learn again.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'll never have those opportunities to sell your first business, to build your first business, right?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: It'll always, if you do it again, it's always like number two and you you come with different skill sets.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I would tell you, I learned a ton.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: I um I'm overwhelmed with the amount of skill that is out there in the acquisition world.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: I am certainly um, I don't want to say selling is like a little bittersweet, but it's sad sometimes when I mean I'm still connected to my entire team.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: I that it's my team.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I miss those like that playful daily interactions.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: I miss the guests tremendously.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: We had guests that came back year after year after year.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: So there's lots of mixed feelings as it relates to that.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it was time to do one of two things either sell and allow somebody else to grow it, or double down, take another leap of faith and risk with finances, and then do it myself.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it felt like the market that I was in was starting to see the likes of getaway, under canvas, autocamp.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you knew you were gonna start to have to compete with the same number of travelers in an area that potentially was becoming oversaturated simply because that area was being seen as the next area to kind of, all right, the star report looks great.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna go, we gotta go find another spot.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: We've run out of national parks, let's go to South Haven, Michigan.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: When you say, when you say selling was hard, is it do you mean more it was like hard to get rid of, you know, get rid of your baby, or hard in the sense that like it was an arduous process and the the details and the and the the learnings and the processes and the lawyer speak and the numbers and the negotiations, that part was hard.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um both.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: And while you're going through kind of the the second, the ladder that you said, you know, the attorneys, the legal, the accounting, the all of the inspections, I'll call it's like your home inspection, um, which can take months.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: That is, and you're trying to run your business.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: So you're still trying to run and operate a business, and now you've, and as all of you know, when you run this business, the amount of hours free that you have in the day to just do something extra is zero.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: So to figure out what you're giving up to kind of work through that process is challenging.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and then you're showing somebody you know, you're I don't want I almost used the word under the covers, which you can't say, but you're like showing somebody the inner workings of your business that could ease so you're cautious because they could also be a competitor at any time, right?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: You're just there's a lot of um maneuvering that takes place when it's a sophisticated buyer, like any private equity-backed um group.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: When it's a handshake between Connor Schwab and Irene, and you've always wanted to run a glamping set and you wanted to come by the fields, that's super simplistic.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's like two honest people shaking hands and moving forward.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: When you're doing deals that have eight lawyers on a side, that's hard.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's hard.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, I mean on under Canvas is is private equity backed, you know, that private equity, the whole business model is buying and selling businesses.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, it's what they do.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_04: And as you said, you know, you're a first-time seller, there is a huge um imbalance in in knowledge of how to go through this process.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_04: So, how how how does a a first-time seller deal with that and prepare themselves for that huge imbalance when when an offer like that does come in?
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'll start with I don't know how they can do it.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna be really honest.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: I I thought about that through too.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, how can how does a normal person, and I don't mean normal as if I'm I'm normal, but how does a person get a deal done like this?
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: Either they say yes to everything, right?
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you're just kind of the okay, like it's the yes out of flattery, like somebody wants me, okay, I'll say yes, or yes out of desperation.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: I want to be out of this business so bad, just take this business, I'll say yes to whatever you give me.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Or you're in this more of like, is this a partnership?
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: Is this the right fit for us?
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so you're doing this dance.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I would tell you, um, I the reason I was able to survive the process is my husband has done this.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he's been a you know, serial CEO for many years, done lots of acquisitions, but really gave me all the rope in the room or all the rope in the world to figure it out or not.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: And he didn't want me to be regretful that I didn't make decisions that felt instinctive, and he didn't want to take away my opportunity to learn it myself.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: But I remember thinking like month three or month four, you know, when there's deal fatigue is kind of a term that they talk about.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: But I remember thinking to myself, how in the world does like somebody who doesn't have a Kerry Wood next to them do this?
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Who I was using his corporate counsel to review what was provided to me by somebody else's counsel.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that that's some of the other things too.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you have to, because the council in South Haven, Michigan does not know, they're not looking at these kinds of contracts that are coming through from a sophisticated private equity group, no matter which one it is.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: And again, you have to remember we had opportunities with three different ones that we were that we were dual pathing until you get to a certain spot.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: And in those cases, those those legal words and the and that that legal paperwork is overwhelming.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's my nightmare personally.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's definitely a weakness of mine.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_03: Did you um so so you had um your husband's corporate counsel helping you navigate that a little bit?
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I was gonna ask, like, you know, who who would you, you know, if someone calls you be like, hey, I'm interested in buying your business, things start to get complex.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like, who do you call?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_03: You know, who are the people like do you call broker?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_03: Do you call legal?
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like who are the people that help navigate something?
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're gonna call a broker, but you're gonna pay a percentage to a broker, but your broker's still not gonna be reading, they they don't have the legal advice to read through a 130-page document.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, so you uh you end up with both expenses.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's it's very it's very tricky.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_03: Uh how big of an advantage was it, you know, my my brother who I consider to be very smart and he's a commercial broker and has been for a long time in development and does deals.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he always said one of the best things that you can have uh in doing deals is options.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um and like in your in your case where you're like, hey, I had three different groups interested in me, how big of a how big of an advantage was that to you?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_03: And also I hear my MBA teachers saying, you know, as soon as someone as soon as someone calls you, you know, and offers your business, you like you say, hold on, let me call you back, you hang up and you you do your own calculation to decide what you think your business is worth to you before they say a price.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_03: And then so you don't get anchored by a price they suggest, and then you immediately think of who else might be interested in buying this business that I could, you know, reach out to or or or sell to.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, how how big of a difference did that make for you?
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, here's what it was.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think again, I learned that with private equity, three different groups could be three different, very different deals.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: I just assumed I lived in a world where, like buying a home.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: If you put your business up for sale, your business sells like a broker, you sell your business and and people bid on it, and you're selling it to the counter schwabs and the knicks of the world.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: What I didn't hadn't grown into or hadn't learned was that there's a whole other person that likes to play the game a little differently.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: They're buying it for a strategic person, uh purpose.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: They're buying it for um, they need to, they have to purchase land, right?
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: They've got to buy women-owned businesses.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's lots of different funds doing lots of different things and purchasing profitable assets for different reasons.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say in all cases, there were three different deals, and each deal was structured very differently than one another.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: And there are some that you have great chemistry with, like you're like, oh, this feels like I could be best friends with you.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: There's others that you don't.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so there's a lot of decision making, and I'll just use it back to a house for sale.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you did an open house for your house and lots of people came through, somebody you may like fall in love with somebody's story and really want to sell to them because they've got two kids and a golden retriever, and you know, I don't know, they're she bakes cookies.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: And there's another one who's willing to pay more, but he showed up in a Maserati and he's an asshole.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that there is like the whole swath of opportunities for business.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: Selling a business is just so different and so unique, and it's really based on the funds structure of deals.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when we talk about this, it's like, I didn't know that language.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they know that language.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, so doing any business with a sophisticated bank, a sophisticated private equity partner, not being in the room or having those knives sharpened.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a great operator, I'm not a great banker or broker.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where you're like, oh man, I I this is a room I'm not even in.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: How do I sharpen tools to be able to even listen to the conversations, know what a worth is, etc.?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_04: Did you want to sell at this point?
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_04: So that presumably would have helped you negotiate a little bit if you didn't feel like you had to.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, no, I didn't.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: I again, I I'll start with I always I um I always did the fields thinking of an exit.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, am I gonna do this forever?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it's too hard of work to do it forever, period.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: End of story.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Especially the way that I was doing it, which is as an owner operator, not as an owner.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think that there's a difference.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: The owners, I mean, they don't, they're not showing up to work when somebody doesn't come in.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: They have a general manager that does it.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: I was the owner operator.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I think to do that for 20 years was not in the cards.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: So um, I always thought about it.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't, I didn't think I hadn't reached full potential yet.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: I still had some developmental milestones in my strategy before I felt like I was hitting full stride that hadn't been realized, that was just starting to come to realization.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I wanted to be able to run with that and have you know a year or two of a run rate with those numbers and that business before I, and I'm gonna say went to market, whatever that looks like in the lamping worlds, right?
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like through a broker, through a banker.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean that's tricky too.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_03: Was was the transaction, I guess, like fee simple basically.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_03: They gave you all cash and they got 100% of the business.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_03: You're look no longer involved.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: Was it just a clean, clean transaction?
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it was clean.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_03: Did you want to be involved or were you kind of like, I'd rather just have it be clean?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's six and one half dozen.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: I would think every owner wants to be wanted.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: There's this like, it's my baby, I want to want it.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, I'm the smartest person that knows all the answers to all the questions you're ever going to want to know.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: There is this other part that says, and especially with private equity groups that have, you know, multiple sites, um, to be able to say, actually, our savings is when you come out of the business.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because they they start to make decisions that are different than mine and um have more resources to move at faster paces than maybe me.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I think at some point there is this.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'll use private equity example.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: We have data that suggests that if we bring an owner on, 10% of the time it works.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just cut paid to start, right?
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like let's just know, let's just move where the data takes us.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: They're much more data-driven and less with like, how does this feel?
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, we really love her.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: She's so sweet.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, actually, nope, we're not gonna fall down that trap.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: 90% of the time it doesn't work out.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna move forward with just clean break, uh, well, yes, transition time, and of course there's a transition time.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, even still today, my team called, you know, and they're like, hey, listen, when this happens, what do we do?
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like like institutional knowledge, um, because you're there to support your team, and you also want a business to be successful.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_04: So we we obviously we've obviously covered the the rise of under canvas pretty extensively, and how you know Sarah Dusick was uh you know, was everything to that, and how it started as a mom and pop operation and then just grew to crazy size.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_04: Does it feel yeah, it's been what six years now since Sarah exited that business?
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_04: Does it feel like an extension of a private equity firm these days?
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_04: Or do you still feel like that that kind of heart of hospitality is still there?
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's a tricky question.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'll say this.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's not, I'll I'll say I don't know, I can't compare under Canvas to maybe how it was under Sarah's regime.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I would tell you it isn't I it's I don't want to call it the field way.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: The way that they do things is different than the way Irene does things.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: But there's a reason that they're much larger and more successful than Irene One Site was.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: But I I would tell you there is, you know, Sarah and I are good friends, and um there is something I think that that's what when I was looking through the list of the questions that you guys were gonna ask today, I was going to say the differentiating factor is glamping is hospitality.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: And hospitality gets very hard to do at scale, and it's matched most perfectly with authenticity and kindness and care when there's a human being behind it that has everything at stake.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think that um you're gonna come in ten years, we're gonna look back and we're gonna go, what was the most successful ones?
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's the ones that crushed it?
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's the brands that have a name with a face.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: Now you can put a lot of money and and marketing and superpower behind it because we hear what Sarah's deal was, and we're all like, oh, we want to be this, you know, we want to have one, you know, three or four sites or seven sites, and we want that check.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: But the reality is that hospitality is born out of this like wanting to serve and wanting to care.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how you do that at scale, which makes it really hard for me to understand a world where the top glamping products out there will be all national brand.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think that they will all favor kind of these smaller um mom and pa shops.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: I do.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_03: It is it is interesting because I believe you, as far as I am aware, I think you are the first or maybe like second or third boutique single site operation to be acquired by a larger brand that I'm aware of.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um do you know of any others?
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_03: Do either of you know of any others?
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_03: I think maybe Wildflower.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_04: But Ben Wolf doesn't class himself as Glampin, same as Isaac French, but you could argue, you know, micros or independent operations.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um true.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_04: I think there's been a few littered about, but no, not a huge scale.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, maybe you're the first canvas-based.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I think it's because when we look back at kind of what the trends are.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Travis Chambers is crushing it, but some of it is that people are attracted to other humans on the other side.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: They want to be in their world.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when you're um, I think of Travis, who really Travis and Ben, in my view, do it the best.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think Isaac does a great job too, but he's exited, so it's hard.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: He's not, it's once you exit, it's hard to be, I'm not using the word relevant, but the consumer changes so rapidly that it's hard to kind of have your grasps on what are my guests experiencing?
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because you don't have guests to experience it to take that as data points.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: But I'll tell you, I'm um I think when I'm paying attention to those businesses that are that are exceeding statistics of national brands or just industry standards, it's these one-off men wolves, Isaac French's, The Fields, Outpost X, Bolt Treehouse.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's those brands that have super high social media followings and like cult-like followings with super fans.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: And they're fans, either they connect with the brand because the brand speaks to them, whether it's based on religion, whether it's based on um location, it's based on theme.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think that those are the ones that become attractive to a national brand because they're like, holy cow, how are they getting that?
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: If we pulled this into it, maybe there's some things we can learn from these, or they're the profitable ones out of the group.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: They're super brands.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, um, I've noticed recently that Bolt Farm have significantly stepped up their kind of founder-led marketing, like um Seth and Tori are doing content all the time now, and it's they don't even mention Bolt Farm at times.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_04: It's kind of focused on them, and it's almost like uh it's like a Netflix show almost.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_04: Like, and they're they're obviously very good at that, that you know, they've both been in the media for a long time and that's and they're super attractive, let's not kid ourselves.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's a lot of things going on with those guys, right?
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that's a bit, and I think sometimes you know it that they've got the perfect storm where it's like you know, not everyone can replicate that, not everyone has the mind like Travis Chambers, for example, where you know he's he's you know, he'll admit he's a little bit crazy, and like you know, not everyone can replicate that, but it's kind of picking up little bits and trying to you know emulate but but put your own spin on it that I think it is the way to go.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_04: But I also you know I've had conversations before.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_04: Obviously, what we're trying to do at Posh is sometimes you know, maybe my business partner will say, Oh, no, we can achieve these rates that Bolt Farm are doing by you know putting these basics in place, but sometimes there is that intangible attractiveness, charisma on camera that you're just never gonna be able to do.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_04: So I think it is important to recognize what you can emulate and what you know maybe is a little bit out of reach.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_03: The amount of times I've had that conversation of people using Bolt Farm as a comp, and I'm like, all right, you're not gonna be able to get those rates.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like well, and not only that, but you may not be able to get those rates now.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that that's where rates go.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm I'm um I just bought tickets to Outstanding in the Field.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: Have you guys heard of Outstanding in the Field?
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's these dinners that flow at all the most beautiful fields and farms in the United States, and you know, they partner up with a local chef, kind of a notable chef, and it's been branded.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's I think it's like in its year 12th year.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: But it's uh I'll call it a super brand, right?
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's they have a vehicle, like at this um bus that they take to each location, they they do the same sort of sitting at every location.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: They do great photography, they do great videography.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's like the one night a year that I splurge for a dinner like this.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: And um, the reason I do it is I'm a super fan of the brand.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I know what that feels like, and I know what it's like when I get my friends to treat them to this dinner.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody else is getting that price point for a dinner, not even close.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: And part of it is, but it took them 12 years to ramp up what it was that they were doing, to start a following, to make it very enticing, to market it, to brand it, then to limit it so that people like Irene, the day that the tickets go on sale, booked for the slots that are nearest to me.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that that's maybe social media has this incredible um power that I still think is still untapped.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we just did this class, we did uh masterclass for 10, and Ben came and talked with the group about social media and its impact on his bookings.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when he's getting ADRs of 500 plus, and he's in what I would call the most saturated market in the United States, and he's running at 80% occupancy, the kid's crushing it.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas other people in the same market are doing 10%.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: What's the difference?
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's and you may argue his accommodation.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's him.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: He's a super brand.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_04: Was having super fans a big part in your acquisition?
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_04: Do you think?
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh, I don't think it for them, no.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think for them this was an a location and it was a profitable business.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_04: But presumably having super fans resulted in the or caused the profitable business.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I think superfans um was the reason that we had, you know, we were booked out a year in advance.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: It was the reason that we're able to get the full cycle of a guest, you know, from staying to engage to married to baby, you know, the full circle.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's part of the reason that um they bring their friends along when they come, and so one reservation turns into four.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's part of the lure.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: But but I would tell you, you can't do that without high touch.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: So that those are relationships that have to be fostered, maintained.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: Whether it's, you know, when you think of the people that are performing the best in social media and we'll use influencers as an as an example.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they have to be on there all the time talking to their fans, right?
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to be doing the same thing in it in the same way and not making them feel anonymous, making them feel seen.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: So engaging with them, talking with them, showing them what they're missing, inviting them to come stay, uh, following up after they do stay.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a that's the heavier lift side of things.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, listeners.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: This is Sherry Halala, founder of Sage Outdoor Advisory.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: If you're launching an outdoor hospitality project like Clamping, we can help.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: We offer feasibility studies and appraisals.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: What that means is we look at your specific market and proposed business offering and complete an in-depth analysis to make sure that your planned business will be profitable.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: Getting a second opinion on your proposal and forecasted financials is critical to understand before you spend years of your time and hundreds of thousands of dollars.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: This is particularly important if you are looking to raise money for your project from a bank or private investors.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: They are going to want to see this type of deep dive analysis from an independent third-party specialist in the industry.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: We at Sage have completed well over 250 feasibility studies and appraisals in outdoor hospitality in North America in the last four years.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: So we understand what it takes to bring a project from concept to reality.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: If this sounds like it could be helpful to you, you can go to our website, SageOutdoorAdvisory.com, and schedule a call with our team.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: While you're there, check out our proprietary glamping database map too.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: Now back to the show.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: As you were going through the sales process of your business, what what were you really happy that you had done in the way you set up your business or it was structured that was really very helpful?
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_03: And was there anything you were kind of kicking yourself that you'd wish you'd done?
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I would tell everybody, and we just did this, so back to this masterclass, we used Q.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_03: Q Hospitality with Quinn.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we we used Quinn to do a session on um how they rate properties for management.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like how do we go in and know kind of what levers we're doing really good on, what levers we're not doing great on.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then we can assess from operational perspective, what levers do we think we can move, what levers do we think we can't move for operational excellence?
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because at the end of the day, that's the score that you get judged on by everybody.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's your financial performance?
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: And your financial performance is driven by you guys know this, revenue, cost.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say um, the areas that I think that we I would recommend for everybody is to have a really clear understanding of your financials.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: So clean financials.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're thinking you want to go to market, um, you know, we had quality of earnings.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: So that's you know, where you pay somebody an exorbitant amount of money to go through all of your financial uh years of finances and come up with what is a clean financial report that says money coming in has been reconciled with money going out, and this is what the performance of that looks like, and it's unedited, meaning I can't skew it to say that I do better than I think I can, and somebody can't say you didn't do as good as you have.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: So quality of earnings.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_03: Is that different than just having a certified accountant go through and do your books and accounting each year?
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_03: Interesting.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_03: And so so you just you pay extra for us an even higher level of accounting certification, and that's all based on historicals?
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because your accountant, even though you have like we had um our accountant does our books every year, the way that she does it is if I say, I'll use this as an example, but let's say, and I think a lot of people that are owner operators know this, there's some personal stuff that gets in the mix.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: Or your reporting may not be you're you may be reporting accrual versus cash.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: So what they're doing is they're taking every single credit card statement, um, bank statement, expense, and going through and categorizing it and putting it together so that a sophisticated buyer on the other end on the other end is able to look at um all the financial detail that sophisticated buyers need to see in order for them to underwrite deals.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_03: What what does that cost to get someone to do a quality of earnings?
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: 50,000 for us.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_03: Fuck my gosh.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_03: And even if I assume you had good books going into that.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like, did you have pretty clean and organized books going into that?
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_03: And it was still 50,000.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I would say yes.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: Now my husband would go, I've done 50 deals.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is you gotta go.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're gonna want a quality, any sophisticated buyer is gonna want quality of earnings.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_04: That's super interesting.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_04: Did it turn anything up that you didn't expect?
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: No, because I I mean I no, it just organizes it different for underwriters.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when somebody's giving money to do a project, they've got to figure out, especially, we have to remember a lot of these glamping sites, what's your asset?
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: Sewage, I mean water utilities, because anything above the ground that's canvas is valued at zero.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to be able to say, um, you have to determine how to come up with what the value of the business is based on either earnings, because it's not usually your asset.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I remember this exactly.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, we had 25 sites.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: And Nick, you know this, you just did a project.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, what does your project cost to put in sewer water septic for your sites?
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_04: Well, that was that was the the partner on the ground's job, but it would it was um it became significantly more expensive when they had to put in a fire suppression system, which is why Posh got involved in the first place, because they ran out of money basically.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_04: But um, I don't know the exact figure.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: But let's just say it's a million.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's all that that is worth.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: The the tents are worth nothing.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: So if there's nothing to if there's nothing for somebody to go get a loan against, because there's no asset to go get a loan, you have to figure out what the actual value of the business is.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: Cash coming in.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_03: Does that make you think differently about using Canvas base for like hardwall units?
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: No, because I think hardwall units aren't valued very much differently either.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because what can you use them for?
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like you can turn it into a tiny home community.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: Most of the time, you're most of the time, depending on how you've accounted for it, you've depreciated it pretty quickly.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I would also tell you, let's say you're treating it like a car.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: I bought the unit for$100,000.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: If this business doesn't turn out, I can take this unit and sell it to somebody for maybe$40.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that that's where we did some hard-sided, not because we wanted to increase what the value of it was, because the we weren't charging much more for the cottages.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: So if a tent cost me$20,000 to put up and a cottage cost me$100,000 to put up, but the difference between the two in terms of ADR wasn't significant enough, the actual ROI on a tent is greater than the ROI on a cottage.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_04: So are you allowed to say kind of whether you the business was valued based on a multiple of revenue or profit or or based on cat rates?
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_04: Like are you allowed to discuss that?
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: I would say of all of all of the offers that we received, but and I'm just gonna use kind of forward looking because I'm in conversations, I would say every month, you know, somebody's looking at a project or looking at something either to purchase and how are we valuing?
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody's using cap rate.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody's using a multiple on EBITDA.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_04: Interesting.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_04: And so did did the presumably the value of the land at least came into that as well.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: No, though it's just a multiple on your EBIT.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, those are very those are very similar.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that they're very similar though, like using a using cap rate and an EBITM multiple.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_03: What's what's the differences between those?
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: A cap rate?
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, what's the differences between using a cap rate and an EBIT multiple?
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll use this as an example.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: In if you had a prime location, let's just say it was a$2 million location that you loved, but you were doing$400,000 on revenue, even though you might argue that you could get more money from the land and that could be part of the play, if somebody's only has purchased on a history of the multiple on Ibida, your your the value of your property is fairly low.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: If you spent$200,000 and you got the same amount of revenue, it it's a way better deal for for Irene.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and fundamentally the buyer's looking at it from a cash flow perspective.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's how much money can I make based off the cash flow, right?
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_03: And how much can I increase that?
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: How much money I can make on cash flow?
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um not cash flow.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because cash flow is different than your EVIT duh, but I would say they're looking at the cash flow to them isn't necessarily as important as your earnings.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're not going to be able to do that.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: We're getting deep in the financial speak.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_01: Hang on, I'm I'm looking something up.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because it's because uh a cap rate is essentially valuing a business based off of a multiple of the net operating income.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_03: And the net operating income you know takes into account all uh expenses, including taxes.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um and then earnings earning EBIT does earnings before interest taxes, depreciation, and amortization.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um I think those are are almost the same, almost the same value.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_03: I think there might be like a little bit of a difference, but it's broadly speaking.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_03: And a cap rate is just a percentage as opposed to a multiple, if which kind of serves the same purpose as well.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think maybe it's the difference between depending maybe the who the purchaser is.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you're talking to real estate, because they speak in cap rates, because they're like, oh, it's a two million dollar.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: See, I think that's the difference.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe this is how I understood it is that it's a two million dollar asset doing two hundred thousand dollars in revenue.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's the cap rate versus multiple doesn't care what the value of the asset is, they just care what the multiple is on your earnings.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: So because you're not, you're you could have overbuilt an asset.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: You could have put$10 million into an asset, and is I'm working with somebody right now that has a$20 million asset doing$400,000.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you're never gonna get$20 million for this project, ever.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_01: You overbuilt this project.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I think because you would argue the cap rate would be the$20 million.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_01: This is what my investment is, to the revenue divided by the revenue that I have versus multiple, which is just tell me there's a multiple out there, a standard multiple.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_01: What is your EBITDA?
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_01: And that's and you know you're in this range.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_01: Now let's go play with the numbers within this range.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_03: One thing I do want to clarify is that cap rate, cap rate valuations are based off net operating income, not revenue.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: I thought it's based on your asset value.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_03: That's how you come up with the asset.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_03: That's how you come up with the sales price.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's the the NOI divided by the cap rate.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_01: So the cap rate is the rate of return on a property or an investment, but you have to determine what the value of the investment is.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: So if I bought a building for a million, you have to establish what the original investment is to figure out what the cap rate is, right?
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_03: So people use the cap rate to figure out the purchase price.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you can work, you can right, if you have two of the knowns in the equation, you can figure out the third, right?
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_03: So you can use it in different ways.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_03: So like it, yes, it's the cap rate, it's the net operated income, and it's the property value.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're missing any one of those, you can figure out what that missing thing is and solve for it.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_04: We move away from the technical questions.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_04: Irene.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_04: Irene.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_04: Irene, how big was the party when you uh when you signed the contract?
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we didn't have one.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_04: No.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: No, and it was interesting.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_01: My husband said that's not, he goes, normally when we do a deal, both sides come to the table and you kind of like shake hands and share champagne and and do it.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it could be, again, I I wasn't expecting a party.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure they, you know, I'm I'm fairly new of an acquisition for them, that whole acquisition kind of realm.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_01: Winter had, you know, when we were throat in the throes of winter.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: So we did it.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it was just really my husband and I kind of ting tinging, and um that was it.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_04: That's kind of what I was getting, you know.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_04: I wasn't I wasn't asking like, you know, the the party with the private equity types.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_04: I was thinking, you know, after you've done, you've gone home, the champagne was popped, presumably.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think it's hard.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_01: I I mean again, I'll start with everybody starts a business thinking they're gonna sell a business, right?
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: Or they're gonna run it in perpetuity, it's their life, it's been their family legacy.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it does not feel the same.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_01: It it has there's a lot of mixed feelings.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it's interesting.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_01: I talked with Sarah about that.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: Just she and I were just kind of sharing um those, not just those, but like I'm actually doing a trip, a couple trips with her.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_01: With her, I'm I I'm super down the rabbit hole with her business view and far.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think she's brilliant, and we just kind of were chatting about purchase.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what does it feel like?
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_01: It is um for entrepreneurs, there's a lot of void that's created, right?
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because you've your space has been filled with your business and all the thoughts and all the worries and all the things we like to complain about, but every single facet of your being is touched by your business.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: And in one day that changes.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_04: I also think you know that works on not just acquisitions, but any any kind of project where you're fixating on the endpoint and you think you're gonna feel amazing and set have a huge celebration when it's done.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_04: You know, we were um you know, we did a three-month-long campaign to launch our first five units at Skyridge for Posh.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_04: And um, you know, I was thinking the day we opened the booking calendar and fingers crossed it went really well, that would be it.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_04: We'd made it, gonna go mad, you know, have a great time.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_04: And by the time the day we opened, it went really well.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_04: We did, you know, about just under 300k Canadian of bookings in in uh 24 hours.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, and I was just exhausted.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_04: Like I didn't I didn't really want to go out partying.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_04: I was just you know, we had some champagne and that, but it it it never feels quite as you as you'd expect.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that's pretty common whether it's an acquisition, a smaller project, um, and you know, it's cliche, but it kind of is the when you look back, it is more the journey rather than the actual destination that I think you do look back on.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, oh yeah, yes.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_01: And those that are entrepreneur, I think that that's so there's something that's different about that.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_01: There are people that are um entrepreneur who love the beginning, the middle, the start, does don't need to be closers.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_01: There's other people that are closers, right?
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_01: They come in when somebody else has started something, they wrap it up in a different boat, they you know, close the deal, the project, the renovation.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_01: That you know, I think that there's different phases and each phase needs the other.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: It just um it just was it felt different than what I had thought it might feel in my mind, if that makes sense.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and I think you know, having having not just in in this space, but I've listened to uh you know entrepreneurial podcasts and read entrepreneurial books since I was you know 15, 16.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_04: That's kind of why I ended up in this space.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_04: And ever every entrepreneur says the same.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_04: It never never you're chasing a feeling that you'll never actually get, um, which sounds pretty depressing, but you know, it's it's motivating, but yeah, yeah, I I just wouldn't expect, I would never expect it to feel quite as as you would as you would think it would when you reach the end point.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and there's a lot of it's like um, you know, I've I don't want to use the word grief because I think grief comes with like a whole nother level of sadness.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I use that word kind of like void.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_01: There's just this spot that's just a little bit quieter.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and all the all the things like your team, decision makings.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the other day a guest texted and was like, hey, can't tell my husband October 18th, would love to make a reservation.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_01: Can we do it over the phone?
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, screenshots, send it to somebody else.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like all the things that you're involved in and the growth that takes place and the learning.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I would tell you, um, I absolutely loved every single minute of running it.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_01: So while I would argue that I've had some crazy moments and I escaped death many times, um, I love that, like I thrive on that pulse in my throat feeling, you know, where you're just on the edge all the time.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_01: Just, you know, like you're putting the car together as it's going 100 miles an hour down the road.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_01: Love I thrive in the case.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_04: We've basically lived like that for the last year.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_04: I needed a break from it.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_01: But somebody like me does not work well in a system that is really defined where there's a role, and you're like, let me go ask so-and-so over the wall if we can do that, because that's their lane.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'd be like, get the fuck out of the way.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have time for this.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's like time is money.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_01: Let's move on.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_01: So um, there is a little bit of that.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_03: We were chatting a little bit before the show about how you gotta go boating two days in a row over the weekend, and you're like, wait a second, I haven't been able to do that since like before the fields, before being a mom.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's been like 20 years since I had two boat days in a row.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I know.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_04: How are you finding that genuinely?
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_04: The the extra free time.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's so interesting because I'm sitting on the precipice of opportunity.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_01: And every day my husband's like, like, where you're where's your head at?
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_01: What are you thinking?
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_01: What are you thinking?
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what, like, where what do you want to do next?
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's your decision?
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_01: And um, this past weekend was so summer has finally sprung in Michigan.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's been hot, you know, people are getting in the lake.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's like your typical Michigan summer.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_01: And um we had we hosted friends and we got out on the water, and I we jet skied.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I just remember like laughing and giggling, and and my husband, because he's really sweet, he was like, Oh my god, I'm having so much fun just watching you have fun.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you're in the business mode and you guys all know this and you've got money at risk and you've got employees, you there's this different set of seriousness that comes about you.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say it feels I feel like a teenager again.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't feel the I don't feel the heavy weight of motherhood, which keeping children alive and healthy and getting them through high school and college, for those of you that haven't done it, um, it's the greatest, it's the hardest job I've ever had.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_01: Really, like the constant motherhood, making sure everybody's good, safe, educated, doing activities, growing, learning.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um But I went right from there back into the fields.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, I missed a lot of weekends, friendship nurturing, relationship nurturing, visiting with family.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I got to go see my dad.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_01: I actually drove in a car for 14 hours because I had the time to do it, which I never would have been able to do and fished with him.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I've been able to do some life's simplest pleasures, which has me, I just feel so grateful to be able to be it's afforded the opportunity to be able to do that.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know I've I've lived a life of working two jobs and I've lived a life of working, you know, 20 hours a day.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_01: I so I do know what conversely that could look like.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_01: So to be on this side, there's this part of me that's like the entrepreneurial journey is fun.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_01: It is very costly in a lot of ways that it's very hard for people to understand if they don't do it.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just empathizing with those that are already in the throes of it.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_01: It felt very weird and guilty, but I loved it every minute of it.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_04: I I really don't know how you did it genuinely as a as a mother as well, because um, you know, I I you know people listening to this will know that I've you know been working hard for the last three years or so, but I've been single, no responsibilities or anything like that.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_04: And I've been able to just put everything into it.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know how you work around all the other important parts of your life.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_04: So, yeah, how how do you do it?
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um I think what it is is that um sacrifices 90.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_01: I we say this in our house, it drives my husband crazy, but I'll say 90% is still an A.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_01: So if I can go um to work and I can execute, but I've got to tap out a little early.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't crush it to 100%, but I got it to 90%, it's still an A.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_01: If I my husband's like, listen, I want to do dinner, like if it's you know, Thursday night, and I know you're gonna be busy Friday, Saturday, and I'm like, okay, I can do dinner, but dinner's gonna be instead of in his mind, this unspoken expectation is dinner is at six.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_01: If I got guests situated in camp was good, but I got like I'm gonna commit to dinner at 7:30, maybe eight, but you'll have my undivided attention.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a lot of um therapy, like learning tools from people that have worked with entrepreneurs.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_01: So there's lots of people in our life that have expectations of us that are unspoken.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it's learning for them to be able to ask what the expectation is of you.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then the next one is is the commitment, the same commitment that you would have to a guest in deliverance, you need to provide for those that are the closest to you.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_01: So um, just lots of open channels of communication.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like I mean, I miss college move-ins, I missed prompts, I missed birthday parties.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um so there's a lot of misses, and I'm not doing it to be a martyr.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_01: I actually were my grandparents were um came, were immigrants.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_01: My mom was an immigrant.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think I grew up in a world where everybody worked to provide for their family.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I actually find a ton of pride in it, and I love watching other people do it.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_01: I say it out of empathy.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like I see you, I know how hard you're working, and I know what that commitment is.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_01: So really it's just asking those that love me and care for me, just if there's an expectation, let me let me meet that for you, but let's be reasonable and and and I'll be I'll execute in the same way I would for a guest.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_04: Would you uh like a bit more balance in your next venture, whatever it may be, or are you preparing to go straight back into the deep end?
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_04: Full tilt.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I'll start with I'm an empty nester now, like fully empty nesting.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I have a husband who has a career, so if ever there was a time to be able to start a business, actually, it's now.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I would also tell you it, there was a lot of I'm I'm debating.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_01: I love the thrill of the kill.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_01: And by the kill, I don't mean the kill of the deal, I mean the kill of execution, like being the best at whatever it is that I do.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like I love that feeling of knowing that I'm a competitor and I'm um and I could go back into this space, or I could go do a hotel, or I could be a whole owner restaurant, and I have lots of uh knives that have been my tools that are knives that have been sharpened that would allow me to play a game again.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_01: There is this other part that said, okay, what is something you like?
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_01: My daughter today, she was like, Mom, if you had one superpower, what would it be?
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_01: She's 25.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was like, I think I'd like to learn to fly.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, wait, what's stopping me from doing that?
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_01: Or what's stopping me from going to law school?
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_01: Or all those things that I didn't do because I was raising children or starting a business?
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what could I revisit?
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm being really careful about what I'm revisiting.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I'm making sure I'm not doing it out of spite or wanting to get like, does that make sense?
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like sometimes you make decisions and you're like, I'm gonna show you how valuable I am, I'm gonna do this out of spite.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really trying to say, I'm gonna do it out of a place of where do I really want to grow?
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_01: Where do I really want to learn?
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_01: And where do I really want to foster and nurture?
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_01: And in those areas, that's where the decision will come from.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_01: So every time a decision comes up and somebody's like, hey, you want to look at this project?
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, do I do I just want to compete to show relevance again?
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_01: Or am I doing it from a place of I actually love this idea, I love this group, I love these people, I love this project.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of um gut checks.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_04: Are you leaning towards anything at the minute?
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I have two that I really love.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the market's unique right now.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I um the whole hospitality industry, but I'm gonna argue glamping is stressed.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_01: There's lots of um operators, there's lots of volume both in locations and sites and operators, and there's um there has to be I don't know that there's enough consumers for the volume that's in there right now.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so if everybody's fighting for the same thousand people, somebody's gonna survive and somebody's not.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_01: And who's gonna survive?
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's the people with the biggest cash, who's gonna suffer?
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's the people that you know leveraged everything to make a project off, you know, get off the ground.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_01: But there is this, and capital is expensive.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I just was looking at if I had to finance a deal, what does it look like right now?
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_01: Interest rates above 7%.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_01: And we want 25% down of the total project.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, how many people can afford that?
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_01: 25% down of a total project and then cash flow it while it's up and running.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I think for me, because I'm conservative, because I don't want to um, you know, take on a project that I don't know that's not gonna be a home run, there is this level of caution.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_01: And there's certainly, in my view, a level of caution in this industry.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, you know, when you look at the new travel trends, it's not outdoor hospitality, now it's wellness.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, how are you converting everybody that did clamping site or is in this unique stay and then catch the wave of the newest traveler in wellness?
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's if that's all that architectural digest is talking about, and outdoor magazine is talking about, and Vogue is talking about, and you know, Condé Nast is talking about, no longer are people going to see these accommodations that we're all thriving in or we're thriving in.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna start to see the latest and greatest.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think um we're at a precipice of pivot, in my view.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_01: And um I'm nervous for those that are levered in the old without the ability to be able to pivot to the new, which makes me have being cautious about what project I sign up for.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I love the the conversation of saturation.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_03: I'm glad you're here because I feel like you've you've been on that journey, particularly in your market.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I find saturation such a fascinating one because primarily when you look when you look at a market and you start the conversation about saturation, like I always look at the number of hotel rooms and you look at the number of short-term vacation rentals, and those are usually, let's just say like an Austin, you know, that might have 20,000 hotel rooms and it might have 10,000 short-term vacation rentals.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_03: And then you look at you know, real glamping properties, maybe it's 10 and each of those have 50.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_03: So maybe it's 500.
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe it's 500 real legitimate glamping units in the Austin market.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_03: So you look at that and you say, well, obviously, you know, people have described Austin being being saturated, but like how do you how do you come at it from a quantitative standpoint?
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_03: And then you also look at those offerings, and a lot of them are super different.
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_03: Well, maybe there's a lot of tented stuff there.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_03: But like, you know, I was I was just at Yofsemane, it's like, all right, we have you know an autocamp, which is going to be airstreams, and then we have an under canvas, which is canvas, and then we have um uh these uh mu modern cabins and these and like a getaway, right?
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_03: Like, do though are they all having a different enough offering where it's like, hey, there might be 500 glamping units in this market, but there's only one player who's offering airstreams.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_03: So like is that market saturated for airstreams or is it saturated for glamping?
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't know, how do you think about that?
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_01: So, and I'll say how we look at it now, because we're starting to look at projects like what is a roll-up of could we take some of these independents and roll them up and call and put a product on it and call it something?
• 1:09:39
  SPEAKER_01: Can we just roll them up and call it under a brand?
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, we'll use that as an example, and you get the you get the benefit of synergies.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I would tell you when we're doing the comparables and we're doing data, and we're doing those data with, and again, it's different when it's Irene's money versus when it's somebody else's money.
• 1:10:01
  SPEAKER_01: When it's somebody else's money, they're looking at them all the same.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Unique stays, glamping, um, they're comparing it to STR data, they're comparing it to hotel data.
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they're pulling all of those data points to come up with a simple set of data that they can use to kind of go, is this a market we want to be in?
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_01: And do we feel like we have a strong enough marketing pool that we can pull the lion's share?
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then those that will fall beneath the line will be we'll call mom and pa, but independent owners.
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_01: It is known widely that national brands outperform mom and pa's by like I the like the latest statistic was 25%, but I would argue that that number is probably even higher just simply because they have more market share in terms of marketing.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_01: They're just able to go and they have brand affiliation, which makes somebody who's normally stays with a Hyatt or a Hilton or a Marriott look under the portfolio and go, I can use my points here, I'm just gonna do that.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_01: So they get double the whammy that somebody like Irene would get if I was going to market.
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I would tell you, especially now with AutoCamp adding in cabins and tents, they're the same as under Canvas.
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_01: And under Canvas adding in cabins, whether it's through the fields or someplace else, the same as autocamp.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so really what you're doing is as brands, you're defining who is my consumer and how can I have them have brand loyalty.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_01: So when they come and stay at an auto camp, they're staying at the auto camp at all the locations, and I'm outperforming them moving from autocamp to under campus.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_01: And similarly with under campus, how can I keep them brand loyal to under campus and not hopping over to autocamp?
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because once you lose them, you likely lose them.
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_01: So when I say a market is saturated, I'm saying that the demand for the experience, even if it is um that there isn't enough demand for the amount of units for that experience.
• 1:11:59
  SPEAKER_03: Let's let's just say for your perspective, you know, Irene Wood's thinking about investing and building a project or buying a project in a market.
• 1:12:07
  SPEAKER_03: How do you how do you decide if something is saturated or you know there's still appetite?
• 1:12:13
  SPEAKER_01: I would look at so how I go about kind of determining whether or not a market is hot or not.
• 1:12:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:12:19
  SPEAKER_01: I I look at underserved markets.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I wouldn't go to a market that already had something there.
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_01: I would go to underserved markets where naturally people are either traveling to because they naturally travel to, or because it's becoming the new destination that they don't know.
• 1:12:34
  SPEAKER_01: So right now, Lake George is really hot.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_01: You can see a lot of the travel press is like Lake George is out, that lake is outperforming like the Great Lakes of Michigan.
• 1:12:44
  SPEAKER_01: So because people say that, they're going to have an influx of people going, all right, I'm gonna invest, I'm gonna put some accommodations in there to meet the demand.
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_01: And if you got a five-year runway on somebody else, at least you made your return on investment and some cash along the way.
• 1:12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I would have a hard time tapping into any market that already had national brands in it.
• 1:13:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'd stay away from them.
• 1:13:04
  SPEAKER_01: Or I would steer away from areas where when I look on the website, they're not sold out.
• 1:13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm like, if somebody could choose, and I'll use Texas Hill Country, I like to pick on them a little bit, um, you know, it's 120 degrees and they can choose to stay in a tent or they can choose to stay in an Airbnb.
• 1:13:20
  SPEAKER_01: I even if they wanted that experience, they're conscientious consumers, they're like, I'm gonna go where the creature comforts actually are.
• 1:13:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's kind of funny because when we were, you know, we've been doing feasibility studies for basically four years now.
• 1:13:31
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, 2022, you do a feasibility study for, you know, Austin or Zion or um, you know, any of these big or Yosemite, you know, those you could say those were great home run markets, and then someone goes into those markets, and then two years later, you know, right?
• 1:13:50
  SPEAKER_03: It takes it's gonna take you at least two years to develop, almost certainly.
• 1:13:53
  SPEAKER_03: By the time you find a property and build it and get it open, that's almost always gonna be two years, probably longer.
• 1:14:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um you know, and then as we've seen, and maybe it's more pronounced because of COVID and how crazy that was and what that did, but you know, it's almost like by the time, you know, if you're finding the market that's not saturated, by the time you build and get open, then oh, maybe it's too late.
• 1:14:15
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how does one navigate that?
• 1:14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know that you do, and I think that that's being wise.
• 1:14:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll argue that the way that you can compile information is there's information you could get through Connor.
• 1:14:31
  SPEAKER_01: Then there's other information that Connor's not maybe you are digging through, but you're not digging through.
• 1:14:36
  SPEAKER_01: So let's just say, for instance, I wanted to build in South Haven, Michigan.
• 1:14:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I would go to the planning commission and I would go, how many people have pulled permits for this area?
• 1:14:47
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they haven't built yet, but they're thinking of building.
• 1:14:51
  SPEAKER_01: And they'd go, we've got four permits in there, but we have no building permits yet.
• 1:14:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, all right, I've got four people who think they want to do this business, haven't pulled building permits yet.
• 1:15:01
  SPEAKER_01: Where's their location?
• 1:15:02
  SPEAKER_01: Is it a better location than mine is?
• 1:15:04
  SPEAKER_01: Is it closer to traffic?
• 1:15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Will somebody see that before they see mine?
• 1:15:08
  SPEAKER_01: How could I differentiate based on their location?
• 1:15:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that there's other layers of diligence that I think um sometimes get missed when you're doing you're doing a feasibility study that isn't so micro-specific, where I think somebody who lives in an area can really understand an area and dive deep into both what is coming down the pipeline, what has already been approved, so that you don't find yourself buying a piece of property, building next to somebody who's two years ahead of you.
• 1:15:43
  SPEAKER_03: That is that is super important, and that is something that that we look at as well.
• 1:15:47
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, for any of the listeners, like call your city planning, county planning, adjacent counties, adjacent cities um to find out what's what's coming online.
• 1:15:56
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, that that is the best way to look into the future and say, hey, what might be coming online in the next two years?
• 1:16:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because if you had, I mean, we opened um in 2018 and then off map opened, I think 2019, just up the road, and then getaway and then auto camp.
• 1:16:14
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a been a lot of it.
• 1:16:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think had I known, I it didn't matter because I was first, but had I shown up to the party this year and I looked around and I went, hey, listen, am I gonna do this?
• 1:16:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, no, and there's seven more in the queue.
• 1:16:26
  SPEAKER_01: There's no way I'm gonna build.
• 1:16:27
  SPEAKER_01: There's gonna be more tent sites than there are people that want to do this experience.
• 1:16:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna go find something else to do.
• 1:16:34
  SPEAKER_01: And really being honest, I think, and Connor, you know this too.
• 1:16:37
  SPEAKER_01: You guys have sat in situations where somebody's like, I really want to do this, and you're and the and the desire and the passion is greater than the common sense for the project.
• 1:16:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then you keep throwing money at it and money at it and money at it, which just creates a different problem, a different day, and and things get affected, like quality of life, um, your relationship with your family, because you borrowed money that you can't pay back.
• 1:17:01
  SPEAKER_01: So those are some other things too.
• 1:17:03
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 1:17:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:17:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:17:04
  SPEAKER_03: You can get into hot water really easily.
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_03: Is there a scenario where someone could say, hey, like, you know, I'm gonna go into a market that is saturated, but you know, I'm just confident that we're gonna execute or invest, and you know, like the Austin market isn't going anywhere, the Yosemite market isn't going anywhere, and like, you know, it might go through ups and downs, but like we're gonna be different and we're gonna execute so it's all gonna work out, or is that still ill-advised?
• 1:17:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I always say, and I've had to really adjust my demonstrative feeling about this.
• 1:17:43
  SPEAKER_01: I have a very um different threshold of pain.
• 1:17:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I also have this mindset if I'm not making this much money, I don't do that.
• 1:17:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'll I won't do that project.
• 1:17:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I forget that there are some people that are um, we just did this master class.
• 1:18:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna mention it like 65 times.
• 1:18:04
  SPEAKER_01: But in this class, we had a wide range of people making different kinds of money.
• 1:18:08
  SPEAKER_01: So people like on hip camp who've been operating and maybe they have four sites to people that have, you know, large 75-site locations.
• 1:18:16
  SPEAKER_01: And the person on four sites, if you just did math really quick in your head, you can come up with roughly what you think their season of 110 days look like at$400 a night at 60% occupancy.
• 1:18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, for me, that's like not feasible.
• 1:18:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's not financially, that isn't a feasible project for me, but for somebody that might be augmenting a lifestyle for them.
• 1:18:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I think when, or on the other end of a spectrum, you could have a$20 million build-out asset not doing enough revenue.
• 1:18:44
  SPEAKER_01: You may not care because that could be a fun project for you, and you've always wanted to have a camp and your friends use it when guests aren't there.
• 1:18:52
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a wide range of performance thresholds.
• 1:18:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so I always say it's hard for me to push my own thresholds on other people because they're thresholds maybe a little differently.
• 1:19:05
  SPEAKER_01: But when we talk about markets like Austin, um, which I feel like I have a pretty strong understanding of that market, when you're looking at the performance of those that are in a two-hour radius of it, if 80%, 70, 60% aren't crushing it, what gives you the thought that you're going to be not in the general population?
• 1:19:32
  SPEAKER_01: Unless you have crushed a brand and people are begging you to come.
• 1:19:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, how did um in Waco, Texas, you know, Chip and Joanna Gaines?
• 1:19:41
  SPEAKER_01: They made Waco, Texas on the map again because they had such a strong brand that they could throw the brand there.
• 1:19:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you have a strong brand, you can probably put your brand in a parking lot and people will show up.
• 1:19:49
  SPEAKER_01: Boldhouse shows up, parking lot, Detroit, sold out.
• 1:19:53
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know that if an average person who hasn't developed a brand could do that.
• 1:19:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, I I try to tell people like that is the kind of just like you said, like that is the tried and true way.
• 1:20:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like if you're not sure whether to go into market, go into the top five players and be like how drive there, how full are they?
• 1:20:10
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and what rates are they charging?
• 1:20:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like that, that is the bet there's a lot of different things you can do about population growth and you know, property uh prices and traffic counts and you know, um median household income and seasonality and national park visitation.
• 1:20:24
  SPEAKER_03: You can do all that.
• 1:20:25
  SPEAKER_03: But like if your competitors are having really low occupancy andor really low rates, like you know, that's that's kind of the the best indicator for you.
• 1:20:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:20:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and is the project feasible?
• 1:20:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like you may argue I can come with, yeah, the project is feasible.
• 1:20:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you can catch some of the market share at what price point, at what occupancy, with what capital.
• 1:20:45
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's feasibility as a spectrum.
• 1:20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:20:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:20:50
  SPEAKER_03: Well, um, I've got a question for you.
• 1:20:52
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm actually working on a study right now that has that wants to do fine dining.
• 1:20:56
  SPEAKER_03: I know that was a really big I know that was a really big um piece for you.
• 1:21:01
  SPEAKER_03: And we've had a couple big projects lately that want to do F and B.
• 1:21:04
  SPEAKER_03: And one of the numbers I always struggle with or just don't have a grounding in is like what percentage of guests do you rely on that are gonna purchase like a fine dining, you know, on your property or like, and then for I guess maybe could you tell us a little bit about what the setup was like at the fields and yeah, what what your experience was?
• 1:21:22
  SPEAKER_01: So um I love to talk about this, Connor.
• 1:21:25
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason I like to talk about it is because if somebody's really passionate about adding this to their portfolio of revenue, some things to consider.
• 1:21:33
  SPEAKER_01: So a couple things that we talked about was weather, you know, like can the weather support fine dining?
• 1:21:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, outstanding in the field does it, and outstanding is a really great example.
• 1:21:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think I I think the tickets are$375 for one ticket.
• 1:21:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I think some of it is when we did the feasibility for it for the fields, what we said was is there a demand for restaurants in the area?
• 1:21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Or are rest backs in its occupancy, or are restaurants full and there's really not a demand?
• 1:22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And what we were finding is actually in our area, the amount of dining was being constrained, restaurants were getting pulled out, restaurants are hard to staff, and especially hard to staff in a seasonal area because you have employees that want to be employed all year round.
• 1:22:14
  SPEAKER_01: So we felt like we actually had to offer dining because we were offering such a high ticket price.
• 1:22:21
  SPEAKER_01: How can we have food that mirrors what the experience is?
• 1:22:24
  SPEAKER_01: We can't send them to town and get Wendy's.
• 1:22:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like then we can't get the dollar amount that we want for the overnight stay.
• 1:22:32
  SPEAKER_01: So for us, um, once we realized that the demand, people were waiting, you know, hour, two hours to go eat in town.
• 1:22:39
  SPEAKER_01: They were driving 30 minutes to the next town where there were not enough restaurants to support the number of guests.
• 1:22:44
  SPEAKER_01: We said this is gonna be really easy for us to fill the amount of seats that we need to fill in order to support it.
• 1:22:50
  SPEAKER_01: So the way that we came up with the number of seats was how many guests do we have on site?
• 1:22:55
  SPEAKER_01: Can we build a business plan just around the number of guests that we have when we're sold out?
• 1:22:58
  SPEAKER_01: If we can build it around that, then what we'll do is we'll offer to guests first.
• 1:23:02
  SPEAKER_01: If guests don't take it, then we'll offer it to outside people who'd be willing to pay to have that experience on site so that we could level and plan our restaurant around 40.
• 1:23:14
  SPEAKER_01: And for us, it was 40, 40 people.
• 1:23:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so um that makes staffing easier because you're you always know you're never gonna have more than that.
• 1:23:24
  SPEAKER_01: We had them pre-booked, so we they were already paid for it.
• 1:23:26
  SPEAKER_01: So if they didn't show up, it didn't matter.
• 1:23:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then what we did was we um we had we didn't want refrigeration, freezer refrigeration for 200.
• 1:23:38
  SPEAKER_01: When some nights we would have 20, and some nights you would have 60.
• 1:23:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I think for us, we just said, let's build this business around the number of guests that we have and let's just try to sell this experience to the guests and we'll take care of them first.
• 1:23:49
  SPEAKER_01: In the case that we have some openings because occupancy is lower, or just for some reason somebody isn't experiencing it, it will open up to the general public, and then all we have to do is fill these shorter, like two people, four people, six people.
• 1:24:02
  SPEAKER_03: Is it set menu?
• 1:24:03
  SPEAKER_03: They just paid ahead set menu.
• 1:24:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 1:24:05
  SPEAKER_03: What was like a price per head and we're 75 bucks?
• 1:24:08
  SPEAKER_03: 75 bucks per head.
• 1:24:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, and it was at the same time, so everybody dined at the same time and it was coursed out.
• 1:24:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then 75 was not inclusive of beverages.
• 1:24:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, and we felt like that was the I could move that lever easier than having more accommodations um once we got our liquor license, which we got like October 24th of 2024.
• 1:24:34
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh, I mean, this is like when you can make cocktails and really have a bar program and now open up to the general public so you can get all that additional revenue.
• 1:24:45
  SPEAKER_04: And how how how significant of a part of the business was it financially?
• 1:24:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was um, I can quantify it.
• 1:24:52
  SPEAKER_01: It was I would 20 to 25 percent of the business.
• 1:24:56
  SPEAKER_04: Did it require 20 to 25 percent of the work, more or less?
• 1:24:59
  SPEAKER_01: No, because we were already doing breakfast for guests.
• 1:25:01
  SPEAKER_01: So if you already have the staff and you were doing breakfast for it, now you're just doing dinner and charging for it.
• 1:25:07
  SPEAKER_01: And the margins were you can charge a high higher margin on food in a unique setting.
• 1:25:13
  SPEAKER_01: Outstanding the field's an example.
• 1:25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if you have something unique and beautiful for them to look at, because I do think that people are empathetic to what a lift that is.
• 1:25:21
  SPEAKER_01: And you have, and for us, we have a high touch staff, you had underutilized staff, especially at dinner time when all the guests are captive.
• 1:25:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not like they're taking care of things uh elsewhere in camp.
• 1:25:33
  SPEAKER_01: You're just redirectionalizing the work and the staff during that condensed period of time.
• 1:25:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't like we had a staff, you know, um a ton more for that experience.
• 1:25:44
  SPEAKER_03: Did you analyze to see like the profit margin of the F and B relative to accommodation?
• 1:25:50
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we we always kind of joke that F and B is usually the the L on a PL and that it's it's hard to turn to profit.
• 1:25:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, our we we we made a ton of money on food, beverage, tons.
• 1:26:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I would say that that's if I not that rooms weren't.
• 1:26:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't rooms make money, but there's a lot of cost in rooms, right?
• 1:26:09
  SPEAKER_01: There's and I'm not arguing that you're not gonna burden it all with your insurance and your uh licensing and permitting and housekeeping and heat and electricity and all those other items, but that's sunk cost.
• 1:26:23
  SPEAKER_01: So you're gonna pay that whether or not somebody dines with you or they don't.
• 1:26:26
  SPEAKER_01: The incremental expense for dining was the cost of food.
• 1:26:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, if you have a smart chef, they're playing the market just like you would a stock market.
• 1:26:35
  SPEAKER_01: They're buying food when pork is lower or chicken is lower or fish is lower.
• 1:26:41
  SPEAKER_01: They don't have a set menu to be able to control some of the pricing for you.
• 1:26:45
  SPEAKER_01: And they're also staffing in a way that you're utilizing staff that is underutilized on your camp that's just naturally sitting there waiting for a guest to come back from something.
• 1:26:55
  SPEAKER_01: And they're um, you know, you're able to just upsell and it's a captive audience.
• 1:27:01
  SPEAKER_01: So they're going to buy whatever you give them because they're already sitting on site.
• 1:27:05
  SPEAKER_01: And if they're not gonna buy it, somebody who's in the area who doesn't want to wait two hours for a dinner and goes into open table and sees that they can get dinner on your site is going to choose it.
• 1:27:15
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 1:27:16
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 1:27:17
  SPEAKER_03: Executed so beautifully.
• 1:27:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um always impressive.
• 1:27:21
  SPEAKER_03: I I guess we kind of chatted about this a little bit, but so you're you mentioned you're on the precipice of opportunity.
• 1:27:28
  SPEAKER_03: I think now that you've got one successful, uh, you know, growing, scaling a business and an exit, you're so much more dangerous, you know, as an operator, as an entrepreneur, as an advisor, um, which is really exciting.
• 1:27:40
  SPEAKER_03: But do you any other clarity or color on like what's next?
• 1:27:43
  SPEAKER_03: And do you have any asks of the audience?
• 1:27:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, I um what's next is, I mean, I can't, I'll just say this.
• 1:27:50
  SPEAKER_01: I can't imagine working for somebody.
• 1:27:53
  SPEAKER_01: I can imagine partnering with somebody, but really working for somebody when I know tough decisions need to be made for the benefit of a project.
• 1:28:03
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people don't love that.
• 1:28:04
  SPEAKER_01: They don't like the conflict, they don't like the pushback.
• 1:28:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say anything that I would do, I would command, which sounds like lead, organize.
• 1:28:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think the other thing too is I want something that feels larger and at scale, you know, where you're you're managing running one site, frankly, even two, would be like shooting fish in a barrel.
• 1:28:30
  SPEAKER_01: Almost frankly, too easy.
• 1:28:31
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't feel challenged.
• 1:28:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it would have to be something that was like multi-site with lots of different challenges.
• 1:28:37
  SPEAKER_01: I love regulation challenges, I love neighbor challenges, community challenges, I love um animal challenges, staffing challenges.
• 1:28:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like I like that.
• 1:28:46
  SPEAKER_01: I like to take that because I think um I'm really good at being a team lead and having team members um follow direction and get along on the strategy.
• 1:28:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a I I can take a strategy and execute it very well.
• 1:29:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um but there's also this part that has, you know, like I told you, I just wrapped up a six-week masterclass with Ruben where we went through with operators to kind of help tweak their business so we could see measurable improvements in their business, whether it was through occupancy, ADR, really those two main ones, but cost, you know, I mean, I customer satisfaction, guest satisfaction, those sorts of things.
• 1:29:29
  SPEAKER_01: But so I don't know.
• 1:29:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm hoping that a unicorn shows up and lands in my lap, and I'm like, and that's it.
• 1:29:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's the one I'm gonna get my head wrapped around.
• 1:29:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I believe in that one so much, or I love the team that's putting that together, and they just need an operator to kind of help round out the team.
• 1:29:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because there is this unique part that I'm learning is that there's a lot of people that run businesses.
• 1:29:54
  SPEAKER_01: There's not a lot of operators that run their business, right?
• 1:29:58
  SPEAKER_01: They're when we talk.
• 1:30:00
  SPEAKER_01: About hotels, you know, there's property owners, opcos, they come in, but they don't own it in a way that has their money at risk, their family at risk, like all the things that just make it a little bit more juicy.
• 1:30:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I like that part.
• 1:30:16
  SPEAKER_01: But I just want to do it at scale, like large.
• 1:30:18
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe a roll-up, you know, finding some.
• 1:30:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess maybe if there's some independent operators out there that are like, you know what, I've reached kind of the end of my season, I'm tired.
• 1:30:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um I could I could see myself taking 10 or 15 and rolling them up under a brand and then kind of pushing the brand out in a way that's uniform and symbiotic and speaks to you know people.
• 1:30:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, or if there was a team that was like, hey, listen, we should take this over.
• 1:30:52
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't think this this wasn't as much fun as we thought.
• 1:30:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think I could do that too.
• 1:30:56
  SPEAKER_04: Well, if there are any unicorns listening, um, how do they get in touch?
• 1:31:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, well, I always say this.
• 1:31:05
  SPEAKER_01: I share my phone number, my email address.
• 1:31:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but really the best way, and I I like to push this, is that all of my contact information is on the American Glamping Association.
• 1:31:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I I owe a lot of credit to the association and the connections and contacts that I've made.
• 1:31:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's such a community.
• 1:31:22
  SPEAKER_01: Really, it is.
• 1:31:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's like Ruben at the helm, and I think lots of organizations take on the character of its leader.
• 1:31:34
  SPEAKER_01: And Ruben is just such a great advocate for the space.
• 1:31:39
  SPEAKER_01: So anytime I can say, go to EGA and you can find me there.
• 1:31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Cause then you can just click on the link, and at least Ruben thinks that I'm doing my work for him.
• 1:31:48
  SPEAKER_03: So we will uh the glamping godfather.
• 1:31:53
  SPEAKER_01: I know he is, he is, he's so great.
• 1:31:55
  SPEAKER_04: We will uh we'll include a link to the AGA uh in the description of this episode, so go ahead and check it out.
• 1:32:00
  SPEAKER_04: Irene, it's always a pleasure, always, and always very valuable.
• 1:32:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, listen, I don't know if it's valuable, but I'm happy to just chat through my own kind of interpretations of the space, experience, all that stuff.
• 1:32:15
  SPEAKER_03: I uh it's such so such a pleasure and privilege having you on.
• 1:32:19
  SPEAKER_03: You're just the goat, and I'm I'm so pumped that you got acquired, and hopefully uh we could celebrate in in person sometime.
• 1:32:25
  SPEAKER_03: I'm super happy for it.
• 1:32:26
  SPEAKER_01: Are you guys gonna be at the glamping show this year?
• 1:32:28
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 1:32:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:32:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:32:30
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll have to celebrate.
• 1:32:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think Ruben and I were just talking today.
• 1:32:33
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna have a reunion for our master class, but I was like, you know, we probably there is some of us that are, I'm not gonna use the word that are OGs, but there's just some in the space that have been around and are doing stuff.
• 1:32:42
  SPEAKER_01: OGs for sure in the space.
• 1:32:44
  SPEAKER_03: We could say that.
• 1:32:44
  SPEAKER_01: I just think, yeah, we just need like a little OG reunion or an opportunity to maybe the word is suffer together or just explore the space, you know, because we're all still in the space, and it's hard to leave it when you're passionate about it from a multitude of angles.
• 1:32:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:33:00
  SPEAKER_03: Oh well, man, thank you so much.
• 1:33:03
  SPEAKER_03: I'm enjoy your summer with with all your free time.
• 1:33:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I can't wait to hear what I do with myself.
• 1:33:08
  SPEAKER_03: I I can't wait to hear uh what kind of projects you get uh you jump into in the next you know few months or few years.
• 1:33:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:33:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean it'll unfold as it should.
• 1:33:20
  SPEAKER_01: Just trying to be really patient.
• 1:33:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard not, it's hard to, and and you guys all know this when you own your own business and you're moving at breakneck speed to like slam on the brakes and be done.
• 1:33:30
  SPEAKER_01: That your body, there's so much inertia still going forward.
• 1:33:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, how do we put it to work?
• 1:33:34
  SPEAKER_01: So, should you guys need anything, as always, just reach out.
• 1:33:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm happy to help in any way.
• 1:33:39
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 1:33:40
  SPEAKER_04: Well, we would say best of luck, but we all know you won't need it.
• 1:33:43
  SPEAKER_04: So it would just say thank you again for your time and your contribution.
• 1:33:47
  SPEAKER_04: We we we hugely appreciate it.
• 1:33:48
  SPEAKER_01: You got it.
• 1:33:49
  SPEAKER_01: Anytime, guys.