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Female Firsts: Bertha Parker Cody · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Smithla and welcome to stuff
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: I've never told you precture. I heart you, and it's
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: time for another edition of a female First, which means
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: we are once again joined by the insightful, the inquisitive Eves.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Welcome Eves. Hello, thank you for the intro of course. Well,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Eve's always good to have you on. How have you
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: been since we last spoke.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: I have been good, so chill. Not many updates, not
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: much going one over here. To be honest with you,
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: the best update dates I have is that now I'm
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: using an electric blanket underneath underneath my bitch Jeeves. That
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: is my comfort. Everybody take comfort in my comfort in
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: the eaves right now. Thank you very much. That's what
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: I got to say.
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: Look, I am a big fan of electric blankets. Brag
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: about it to any often because I will be like
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: that is my favorite thing is to sit somewhere and
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: just be tucked underneath an electric blanket when it's super
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: super cold. It makes me feel like I've won something.
• 1:14
  Speaker 4: That's a good way to put it. I like that.
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: It's nice.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Eaves was describing the whole setup to me before we
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: started recording, and that sounds very like a luxurious comfort
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: that you can It feels luxurious, such a nice thing.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: You can get into your bed and it's nice and toasty. Well,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: I am so so excited to talk about who you
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: brought today, Eves. I actually know the answer to this
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: question for Samantha, but I was curious if you have
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: any experience with archaeology, or if you ever went through
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: a phase where you were really interested in it.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: So yes, I have, and that was because of a
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: module I did in one of my classes when I
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: was in elementary school. So it wasn't that I thought
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: I wanted to be an archaeologist or paleontologists or anything related.
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: It was just that I thought it was cool.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: And this was around the time of like Magic Treehouse books,
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: and I was like super into the Magic tree House books. So,
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: if anybody doesn't know there were like elementary age books,
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: super thin. I don't think they were illustrated, but they
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: were about time travel through this treehouse that the character
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: would go to and so they went all to all
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: these different kinds of civilizations and times, and so they
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: went to ancient Egypt, the pyramids, all those things, and
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: so I think it was like I was in that
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: phase where I was learning about that. I also did
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: have modules that I was doing on things like ancient Egypt,
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: and so there was some interest that I had in prehistory.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: Loved dinosaurs, still loved dinosaurs. Those are things I was into.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: So I was kind of orbiting around it. And you
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: know what's funny, I was thinking while I was looking
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: up everything for this episode, I was thinking about dinosaurs,
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: which is kind of how I got here, and I
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: remembered I had this flash of a memory where I
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: had this kit that was a big piece of dirt.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: It was like a big chunk of dirt and you
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: bought it from somewhere and you could dig up bones
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: like you could dig up a fossil in that kit,
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: and I had one of those. I have no idea
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: where I got it from, because I feel like I
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: don't know if it was just like a Walmart or something.
• 3:30
  Speaker 5: That had it.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: I feel like it wouldn't, but I don't know where
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: it came from. And I had that little memory, so
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: I was definitely a little bit into it, but not
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: super super into it.
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: What about y'all, I'd.
• 3:42
  Speaker 6: Like to imagine that was a gift to you because
• 3:44
  Speaker 6: they knew you so well.
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: It could have been. It very well could have been.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking the do you all remember the Discovery Store.
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: Oh, yes, it's that. I loved that place.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: But it could it seems like it could have come
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: from there, like.
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: A museum, yeah, yeah, or firm bank, like I could
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: see like them.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: Yes, and the firm banks. I loved the firm banks
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: when I was young. Oh yeah, I mean, I guess
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: that's an important thing to bring up if everybody doesn't
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: know the Firm Bank, the Firm Bank. There are a
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: couple museums in the Atlanta area, and so I did
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: they have giant dinosaur bones their replicas of them that
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: you can see there, and just things about natural history
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: and biology and science. And then they have a science
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: center as well. I went to both of them as
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: a child, have lots of fond memories of going to
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: them with my class. And did I spend the night
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: in that museum? I know I spent the night in
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: the zoo once, but I feel like I might have
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: spent the night in the museum, but I might be
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: remembering misremembering that. But yes, that that alighted my interest
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: in natural history and like prehistory as well.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, firm Bank's awesome. I think they retired one of
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: the like dinosaur walks recently and they I think so. Yeah,
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: they like did a whole celebration about it, like a
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: goodbye party because.
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: It was so beloved.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: And tickets cost they have the amount of the date
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: it opened, which was very cheap.
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I remember this.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: This is bringing up so many memories, but I remember
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: that's where I first touched a squid because it was
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: a dead squid that.
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: They passed around. I know, it's getting weird, it's getting weirder.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: Boy the word they passed around a dead squidiums.
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I know one of the auditoriums they did.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: Yes, Oh yeah, they did do that because I think
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: the squids were one of the things that we dissected.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: So I missed the day we did the dissection of
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: the squid module.
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: It's okay.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: It's okay that I miss that when I was which
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: is great. But I think that's probably why squid was
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: getting passed around. I have no idea what the reason
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: for that.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: Is, but them poor squiods. So many memories being uncovered.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: I love it. Yeah, well, Samantha, uh you, I hope
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: I'm not misremembering this, but you actually have some experience.
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you you're very correct, because I think we've
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: talked about this with our activists around the world when
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: we talked about archaeologists. But we had a whole project
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: ease in our middle school year. I was in like
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: a specialized grade where they were experimenting with us, so
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: we had teens and for some reason, we had some
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: interesting things that we did, including the fact that we
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: actually started doing an archaeological dig in the back of
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: our preschool, which was an area that indigenous First peoples
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: were there and lived there before you know, the massacres
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: and all of the uprooting, but that we found so
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: many things back there to the point like we had
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: like I think it was like four feet by four
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: feet plots. And this is how you have to start
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: it is to do excavations and then to see if
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: there's an't anything there, and then if you do find
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: things there, you continue to dig. And we actually found
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: so much, including what looked like remnants of a whole village,
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: and so they made us we were allowed to do
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: it for like two to three years. Like we were
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: able to grow it because we got to spread it around.
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: But we had to finally stop and allow real archaeologists
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: to come in and do digs. But we discovered a
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: lot in that area and had a lot of fun.
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: So I have huge memories. It really did think I
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: was going to be an archaeologist, and then I realized
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: school and I was like, yeah, I can't afford that.
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: But we had like a whole thing in our middle
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: school and it's one of my fondest memories to the fact
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: that I have classmates who did a PBS or GBS
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: because it's, you know, Georgia Broadcasting special about Edawa Mounds,
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: because we were so linked with all of that.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: Which people were advocating for that to become a national park.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: Am I correct in saying that the Edawa?
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: My oh, I don't remember, because in my head I'm
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: getting confused with the fact that the area was a Catoosa,
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: you know, so many things, and there was like I
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: think the Cherokee Nation was the most known in our area,
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: and that's all I remember.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: I have a very important question for you as well, Samantha.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: Were you compensated for the work that you did did get.
• 8:27
  Speaker 7: Of course school, we were still just really excited about
• 8:32
  Speaker 7: the first of all, a we didn't have to do
• 8:34
  Speaker 7: classroom work, and so we were in the back, playing
• 8:38
  Speaker 7: in the dirt, discovering these new things, like.
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: The excitement we had every time we found almost like
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: half pottery, and understanding how old it was was so
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: big that we of course we did not think about
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: anything of that. Now again we knew how important it
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: was and how sad we were when we was taken
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: away from us because it was so significant.
• 9:00
  Speaker 6: And they're like, yeah, you have to stop now.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: See this is the level of my jadedness, because on
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: the surface, yes, this is a very endearing situation because
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: y'all are doing something.
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: You love, you're actually learning and your hands on with it.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: There's probably an element of it where you're learning better
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: because you're actually enjoying your process.
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: But then I'm just like these evil adults, like.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: They're like, I know, we can get them to do it,
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: and they all love it, so why don't we just
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: get them to work?
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: And you know it's do all of the child labor laws. Yeah, yah, yeah,
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: it's for learning. We can just do it.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: And so I'm like, no, there needs to be an
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: s grow somewhere where there is an a dollar amount
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: per hour.
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: That has been calculated and you're gaining interest on that.
• 9:44
  Speaker 5: So what I need you to do is go go
• 9:46
  Speaker 5: back and got The funny is I think my teachers
• 9:50
  Speaker 5: really tricked the school system as well as actual archaeologists.
• 9:57
  Speaker 6: And thinking that there was nothing there.
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: You know, They're like, there might be a little bit,
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: but not realizing what they were uncovering was historical and
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: would be of relevance. So like I think in itself,
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: we kind of booked the system to begin with until
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: it was taken away from us. Like we did get
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: a little credit, but in actuality it's not a credit.
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: And of course there was a lot of dispute because
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: I want to say the area where we dug, which
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: should be preserved, is not because again it was an
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: area that showed an actual culture and village lived there
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: before they were uprooted.
• 10:30
  Speaker 6: And kicked out by white people.
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: But I don't think it was, which is really sad
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: in itself because every time I passed that area by
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: the way, I tell my partner, who's usually with me
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: because we're going to see my family, that I'm like,
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: that's where our archaeology did and.
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: He's like, I know, I know.
• 10:47
  Speaker 6: It's so excited.
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but yeah, but you like, it's definitely I don't
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: know who got like any credit. I don't know what
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: any of this I will say. I know there was
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: a big disci but by a person who said they
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: were from the tribal peoples, and they were like suing
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: for it to be stopped as it wasn't like a
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: burial ground, but it was a village, so like obviously
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: it's important. So I don't know what happened after that.
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I will say that ediwell mounds, as I
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: was looking it up, it really doesn't give them a name,
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: just as Native Americans of the Mississippian culture, So.
• 11:23
  Speaker 6: I don't know what that means.
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: Usually they have actual nationality like nations, So I don't
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: know why they put it like that. We'll take into
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: it further, but yeah, I digrege that because this sounds.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: Like the beginning of a very non PC horror, right,
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: Indigenous peoples as the ones who at once create the
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: horror and also magically solve it through their like you know,
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: exotic powers.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Well, I feel like Samantha's story is such a good
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: segue into the person we brought today. I'll tell you
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: that I didn't have a cool thing like that. I'm
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: incredibly jealous. I would have loved that. I went through
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: a huge dinosaur like Jurassic Park phase of my life.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: I loved fern Bank. I had the little kids too,
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: where you could, you know, put dirt on and then
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: uncover things. But most of mine was yeah, media related.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: But if I had known about this person, she would
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: have been a hero of mine. Yes, I'm so, so
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: so excited to talk about her.
• 12:41
  Speaker 6: Me too.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: So who did you bring it for us today?
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: Her name is Bertha Parker Cody, and she was the
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: first Native American woman archaeologist to be employed.
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: By a major museum.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: But we'll kind of get a little bit more into
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: the context of the first later because she's also been
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: referred to as the first female Native American archaeologist in general.
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so we'll get into that.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: Later after we talk about her legacy and some of
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: the things that happened around it, because, as y'all know,
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: there's often a lot of nuance.
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: Underneath underneath all of the layers.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: To be not to be too on the nose, and
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: speaking of all of the archchaeology and paleontology things we
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: were just talking about, I'm not gonna lie like this
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: probably did start with dinosaurs, and I was like, wait, like,
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: have we talked about a paleontologist yet? Is there one
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: I have on my long, running, long, long list. And
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: I was like, you know it just I started suspend
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: in these circles and my stomach started to turn as
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: what happens as I do when I'm like thinking about
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: who I want to talk about, and because there are
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: so many problematic things about the field of archaeology, anthropology
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: and paleontology, because we're talking about going into places that
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: may need to be preserved, that are on some sort
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: of potentially historic or they're on cultural lands. A lot
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: of the times it's people extracting from places that aren't
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: their places. So it'll be a lot of British people,
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: it'll be Italian people, it'll be people from places in
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: Europe going to Mongolia, you know what I mean. And
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: they're leading the expeditions, and even in cases where they're
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: working with locals, they're the ones who precipitated the extraction.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: And then once they do get those artifacts, which are
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: extremely valuable, they might go back to outside places. And
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: then in those outside places, like the people who are
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: running the show there just also might be awful people,
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: or they just their focus might not necessarily be on
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: being respectful of cultural heritage, let's put it that way.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: And then on top of that they're like a slave
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: owner or something like that. That kind of thought process
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: is there. So I was just like, oh my God,
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: like and I'm looking through all these first. I like
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: to make sure that I bring a variety of people here,
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: but I also do love to talk about people who
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: are doing who are Indigenous, and who are uplifted for
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: work in their own lands, known in their own countries,
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: in their own communities. I think it's really nice to
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: be able to talk about that, even if their stories
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: are small, even if I don't have access to that
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: much information, I should say, because I don't speak the language,
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: because I didn't grow up with knowledge of this person
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: like somebody in their community might have.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, And I think that's why when I was
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: reading about this person again, I wish I'd known about
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: her much earlier. It resonated with me so much because
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: I do think that that's really really important to have
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: someone who has that aspect to that side to the
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: work that she did. It was just so refreshing to
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: hear about honestly, and we are.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: Going to get into a little bit more about the
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: context later. Like I said, and this might be a
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: little bit of my hindset bias, but you know, the
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: story that Samantha was just telling about digging stuff up
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: at her school, I was just thinking, man.
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: It would be so nice.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: Like when I was young and I was learning about
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: archaeology and paleontology outside of firm bank, this isn't I
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: can't remember exactly what was happening at the like actual
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: institutions I would go to, but from a more like
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: in my own school context, there was no thought process
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: for me of what it meant to dig up remains
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: that are related to a specific culture's heritage. And I
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: feel like you cannot ignore that. What is the age
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: appropriate way to bring that up in context? Because it's
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: not just for me. I was just thinking, oh, look,
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: it's so cool. These are really old things. But like,
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: who's old things? What is the concept of belonging? Who
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: do they belong to? Why do we need to study
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: this over somebody else? So, you know, important to say.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: But all of that said, I'm really glad that we're
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: talking about Bertha Parker Cody today because she's bringing up
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: some of those questions, and she herself was an indigenous woman.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: So shall we start at the beginning of her story.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: Let's do it, okay. So she was born Bertha us Parker.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: I might be mispronouncing that, but it's spelled y e was,
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: And I just want to say that name here, even
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: though throughout the episode I will be referring to her
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: as Bertha, because other people did call her us. She
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: was born in nineteen oh seven, and she was born
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: in Chautauqua County in New York. And she was also
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: nicknamed Bertie. Her mother was Beulah Tamat and her mother
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: was an actor who was descended from the Abanaki people.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: And her father was Arthur C. Parker, and he was
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: an archaeologist, and he was the first president of the
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Society for American Archaeology, a member of the Seneca Nation,
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: and he was director of the Rochester Public Museum. So
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: he had all of these jobs related to archaeology and
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: anthropology and museum. So as you can see where Bertha
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: Parker Cody would be able to get to her first
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: and when she was a child, she often went to
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: excavations with her dad, and indeed she was even born
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: in a tent in one of her dad's excavation sites
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: in New York. But her parents divorced and after that
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: she and her mother moved to Los Angeles, and even
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: though she was around archaeology in the beginning, it kind
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: of went away for a second. It would become a
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: main part of her life later again, of course, but
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: she spent a lot of her childhood acting in Hollywood.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: She was also in the Pocahontas show with the Ringling
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: brother circus, but that was her childhood. It was really
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: centered around Hollywood and acting. In nineteen twenty four, she
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: married a man named jose Palin. I've also seen him
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: called Joseph, but he was an extra in Hollywood, and
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: he was a member of the Kushan nation, and the
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: two of them had a daughter in nineteen twenty five.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Their daughter was named Wilma May Billy Pallin and jose
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: was abusive, so this is a big and awful part
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: of her story. She tried to divorce him in nineteen
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: twenty nine, and he kidnapped her and took her and
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: her mother and their daughter to Mexico. There was somebody,
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: fortunately in their lives.
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: Who was there to.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: Be able to help them out in that acute moment
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: of horror and distress. And he was an archaeologist named
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: Mark Raymond Harrington, also called Mr. So I'll call him
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: that throughout the rest of this episode because I've seen
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: that other people referred to him as Mr. He has
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: articles written. He calls himself Mr. In there, so, although
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: I know that can get a lot of a little
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: confusing for listeners that want to be respectful of what
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: he actually chose to be called. At the time, he
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: was Bertha's uncle by marriage, so her aunt's husband that
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: was married into the family, and he was also a
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: friend of her father. So he rescued them and he
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: brought them back to the States. So at the time,
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: Bertha's mom went back to Hollywood, but Bertha and her
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: daughter stayed in Nevada, and Bertha worked on MR's archaeological expedition,
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: like she that's what she did. She got back to Nevada,
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: it was at this site called Mesa House, which is like, ugh,
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: it's just life becomes complicated like this sometimes. I'm just
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: thinking about the situation that she was in, which was
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: so terrible and so unfortunate, but it was amazing that
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: she had people, she had access to people like this
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: in her life. I wonder how she felt about that,
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: Like this terrible thing had just happened to her, but
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: then she had somewhere to redirect her energy. That felt familiar,
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: probably because it was something that her father did, something
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: that she saw around her all the time, and it
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: was work that she could do. So Mr brought her
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: on to this expedition and she cooked in exchange for
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: room and board. She would spend half of the day
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: cooking and the rest of the day doing archaeological film work.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: So this kind of half and half doing the film
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: work later will come up later again in her story,
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: which is pretty cool, but we'll get to that in
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: a second. So Mr was an archaeologist for Southwest Museum
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: and Los Angeles, And what I'm saying is he was
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: a big deal. You know, he had access. He was
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: starting all these expeditions. Her dad was also a big deal,
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: so he had some sway. He had some power, the
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: ability to put her in places. But I like, from
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: what I can tell from reading about her story, he
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: seemed like he really cared about her success. Soon she
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: became expedition secretary, and she had a romance with a
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: man named Julian Hayden, and he also worked on the excavations.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: He was at Mesa House too. I believe there's a
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: good romance in the story is you know, we love
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: that as part of a story, you know, it help
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: us build it out. And there was conflict in this romance.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately for Bertha. So Julian's dad didn't like that she
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: was Native American. Some of her letters to Julian do survive,
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: and in those letters she talks about having to provide
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: for her mother and for her daughter while studying for
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: school and working. And so Mmar had teased her not
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: for eating, he called he gave her a nickname like
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: I can't remember what it was right now at the
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: top of my head. But that was related to the
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: fact that she didn't eat that much. And she mentioned
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: in a letter to Julian this romantic interest that she had.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: She said, quote, my health is all broken into pieces,
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: and I am far from strong because many times I
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: went without meals so that mother and Billy, her daughter
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: could have plenty. They didn't realize why I didn't eat
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: any breakfast or dinner. Mother thought I wasn't hungry, but
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: I knew we hardly had enough to carry on. So
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: from that quote, it's clear that she seemed pretty self sacrificing,
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: obviously hardworking, and she cared about her family a lot,
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: so she was willing to not eat in order to
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: be able to make sure that she would feed her family,
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: and she was working super hard. And after that letter,
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: Julian sent her most of his paycheck, even though he
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: was also scraping by some Just like, look, the layers
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: are there for the romance, like you know, and the
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: story is probably not gonna work out, and you're gonna
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: be upset about it. But like, clearly there was some
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: romance that was there, but there was also some conflict
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: with Julian's dad. But in nineteen thirty, so we'll put
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: that romance on pause for a second. And then nineteen
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: thirty Mr organized an expedition in the desert near Las Vegas,
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: and that was the Gypsum Cave expedition.
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: So this is a big.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Important expedition in Bertha's story. In an article in a
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: nineteen forty edition of this magazine called The Desert Magazine,
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: Mr said, I have been attracted to this cavern by
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: vague rumors that it might hold something of archaeological interest.
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: He said his interest was peaked.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: Even more when he found quote portions of the floor
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: of the dark inner chamber covered with a thick layer
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: of hard dried dung. Okay, So I'm thinking back to
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: Annie's question in the beginning of like, did you have
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: interest in this? And now I feel like, my Nerd
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: there are there are layers to my Nerd domb okay
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: that are being uncovered slowly that I'm remembering things, and
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my god, i gotta get back to
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: my Nancy Drew game that I'm currently in the middle
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: of that was about her in ancient Egypt. So yes, okay,
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: maybe I was more into archaeological things that I'm letting on,
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: but I'm just thinking about Mr and being like, there's
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: this place in this dark inner chamber. Okay, there's a
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: lot more to explore here. So he sent a sample
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: of the dung that he found to a paleontologist connections
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: at the American Museum of Natural History whose name was
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: doctor Barnum Brown, and Brown confirmed m Mar's deduction that
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: the cave was a den for ground sloths. So that's
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: what he was thinking. It was like, oh my gosh,
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: it must have been ground sloths, and he was correct.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: Then they started finding other things. They were finding these
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: thousands of year old dart shafts, and Mr noted that
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: this initial expedition crew that they have was almost completely
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: made up of Native Americans. So I know your listeners,
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: you know your audience. I feel like they probably know
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: what the deal is by now. But the most of
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: this industry was white men. At the time. It was
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: already difficult for women in the field, so it was
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: fewer women in the field. For the women in the field,
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: it was difficult for them. There were issues of class,
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: there were issues of gender, and even beyond that, it
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: was often seen or thought of that women shouldn't be
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: doing the field work, like they shouldn't be out in
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: the field doing the digging and things like this. And
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: so it was a man who thought that, but it
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: was the women. Some of the women themselves were like,
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: I shouldn't be out there doing the field work. So
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: there are a lot of things that are unusual that
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: are happening here. There are it's this big crew of
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: Native Americans, like that's already alone, you know, different, and
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: then you have these women who are on the crew
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: as well, and then we won't get too much into
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: the crew here. But also it was kind of a
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: ragtag team in some ways, where some of the people
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: were on payroll, which Emar would say, and some of
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: them weren't. And then later people were brought on and
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: all these things. So interesting crew for sure, But the
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: expedition started in January and they had to set up
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: in this heavy snow and they began finding sloth bones.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: They found more bones, and so Bertha she was expedition secretary,
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: so that meant that she was responsible for dictation, typing, cleaning, repair,
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: and cataloging of items. So some of the more administrative work,
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: that was the work that she was not doing out
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: in the field per se. But sometimes she would work
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: in the cave after her administrative duties were done, squeezing
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: into some of those really tricky spots that were there
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: that were hard to get to. And one day, I
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: just want to pause and also say that that makes
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: us feel like it's clear that Mr and the other
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: leadership that was here were like supportive of her learning
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: on the job. Just because her dad was an archaeologis
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: didn't mean that she necessarily had the experience of archaeology.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: You know, she was learning as she was going along
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: as well. She was gaining experience as she went along.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: But yeah, so one day after she was done speaking
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: of that half day, got my duties done. Next half
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: of the day, Let's move on to what I want
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: to do. And what she wanted to do was put
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: on her headlight, down her mask and.
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: Go to the cave. She did that.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: So she goes to this cave and she finds in
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: room three, this flat slab and what does she do.
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: Of course, she looks under it.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: She sticks her head all the way in, and then
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: when she looks through it, she sees it there's a crevice,
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: and then through that crevice she sees something that looks
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: like bones. She's not fully sure yet, but she's like,
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: I think these are bones. She goes in, she pulls
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: it out, realizes it's a skull, a skull like nothing
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: she's ever seen. And so she's like, I don't know
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: what it is, and Mar's like, I think I know
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: what it is. But they send it to a paleontelligen
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: to confirm what it is, and that paleontologist determines that
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: it's the skull of a ground sloth. For a scientific
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: name that I'm about to butcher. But y'all are going
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: to get what I'm talking about.
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: The name is not throw theoryops, justsensis. It's a ground sloth. Okay.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: Bertha's fine was the most important of the expedition. Emmar
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: said this in quotes, not only in itself, but because
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: it brought us the support of other institutions. So this
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: is a big fine. The California Institute of Technology and
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: the Carnegie Institution comes onto the project.
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: They're like, well, y'all are doing something over here.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: Now that y'all done the hard work. Now that the
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: woman has done the hard work. Specifically, now I'm just kidding.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: Everybody on the team did, but Bertha was responsible for
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: this discovery. Let's be clear. They were clear about it too.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: So now that they've done the work, now we want
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: to get our.
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: Hands into this.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: Y'all have started it, you know, let's become involved. And
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: so they came onto the project. Other people joined the
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: expedition team, including a resident paleontologist named James Thurston. Remember
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: that name. The team soon found more sloth bones, even
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: ones with tissue attached and claws and hair. So I
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: imagine they're getting more excited and more excited. They're finding
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: the bones of other extinct ice age creatures like species
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: of camel and then horses. They're finding the work of
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: basket makers and weapons and things like this. At the
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: time and back then, in this moment that they're in
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: right now, it's debated whether humans migrated into North America
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: by the bearing straight land bridge. So it's a big
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: topic of contention. Apparently they're like, don't say this. If
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: you find this out, don't say this. So there's a
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: lot of murmurings over what happened, But the science is
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: very influx. And then to be a person who is
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: kind of agitating that part of the knowledge at the.
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: Time is kind of like tricky territory.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: But the fact that these sloth remains were found close
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: to ancient human artifacts was evidence that around ten thousand
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: or so years ago they lived in the same place
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: at the same time. That wasn't assumed, That wasn't what
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: people thought at the time.
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: So that was the novel.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: That was novel for them to figure out and have
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: this evidence of it right there in front of them.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: This was also the earliest record of humans living in
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: North America at the time when they found this, those
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: artifacts that they found, this was the.
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: Earliest that they knew of being there.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: And they also found these painted patterns on dark shafts
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: and those were at the time thought to be the
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: oldest known examples of American decorative art. So since then,
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: older human artifacts have been found in North America, the
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: science has There's been more discovery since, but as we know,
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: as we find out things, the information is updated, and so.
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: This was a big deal at the time.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: And if anybody listening once to go and look at
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: photos of Bertha at the site, you know, at the
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: camp and also in the cave at the site exactly
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: where she found this goal, y'all can go look at
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: those photos for Fortunately we have access to those, so
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: that's pretty cool. Bertha at the time, she was credited
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: for the discovery, and she did gain recognition as the
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: first as a Native American woman archaeologist. Okay, let's put
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: it that way. She was getting attention in newspapers. The
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: find was like touted as a historic and important one
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: at the time, So at the time people recognized how
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: big of a deal it was however, she is still
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: a Native American woman. We know how much of the exoticisation,
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: how much of the othering that happened at the time,
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: especially in these media sources, where I mean, come on,
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: it's a low hanging fruit, like, oh, how are they
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: going to position the fact that she was a Native
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: American woman. It's already rare for women to be out.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: There's definitely rare for Native Americans, and it put the
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: to the oh my god, So how are they going
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: to hype that up? They're going to figure out a way.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: So in one field report, for instance, by a man
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: named doctor James ab Sharer, he first, at first he
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: says Bertha was an experienced archaeologist. Okay, he recognizes that,
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: but then he says, quote, they also have Indian blood
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: in their veins of distinguished lineage, and perhaps this adds
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: zest to this pursuit of their calling. So when he
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: says they, he's referring to Bertha's aunt and m R's
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: wife Indica I think her name is pronounced, so she
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: was also at the site.
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: But I'm just like, I have to include this quote, y'all,
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: because it's so many things going on.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: The fact that a lot of the times, how when
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: this othering happens, it's reduced to this very clinical, kind
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: of like a scientific racism element of it all to
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: say Indian blood. Okay, you couldn't have just said Indian.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: You couldn't have just said it. It had to be
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: about the.
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: Indian blood and running through their veins.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: So now you're reducing them to their bodies, to their
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: bodies and their body parts at that point.
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: And then you have to hype it up.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: You got this distinguished lineage thing, so you got this, well,
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: they have chiefs, and you know, they have these mystical
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: hierarchies that I don't really know about, but I know
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: that there are high people there. And also this gives
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: them a little bit more credit because in whatever their
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: system of recognition is, that they're hiring it, so that
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: means something.
• 34:29
  Speaker 4: They're not the lowly ones. And then you have this.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: Last little cherry on top of the zest in the
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: pursuit of their calling, which is just a great word.
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: That's just a great word. So obviously you had that.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: I'm sure there was a lot of other examples of
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: that kind of othering in the media about her, but regardless,
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: she was getting a lot of attention in the newspapers.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: She also has stuff going on in her own life
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: at the same time, so there's this big discovery happening,
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: but she's got her own romances that she's involved in.
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: So back to Julian.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: By nineteen thirty one, Bertha and Julian decided to move on.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: But as this is a great story still, it was
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: such a love story, such a romance that Julian later
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: told Mr That he wasn't Overberththa and that he said
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: this quote there never was and never will be another.
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: Girl like her in this world.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: And so I'm waiting on the pulp fiction about their romance.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: But yeah, so it was it was clear that he
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: still loved her. But Bertha did move on. There was
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: in a letter that she wrote to him, she said
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: something like, she said, but we must move on. You'll
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: find someone better for you. Also, her dad didn't like Indian.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: She was too Indian for him. She was so quote
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: unquote Indian for him. He didn't like her Indian this
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: so she was like, you're that doesn't like me anyway,
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: And I'm just thinking of this as a person who knows.
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: How that goes.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: You know, when you have to when you have to
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: deal with that, when you're the person who's in any
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: sort of relationship with their's experience in the levels of
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: oppression or ways in what you're oppressed, then you have
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: to worry about the other family members and how they
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: feel about you, And often the burden is going to
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: be on that person who is othered in whatever way
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: they're othered to subsume the depth of whatever hurt.
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: Comes with that.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: It's like, wha, we love each other, so I'm going
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: to be the one that has to deal with your
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: dad being like I don't like Indians, you know. I
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: imagine she was like, yeah, she did say this specifically,
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: like you'll find someone who's a better fit for you.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: And in my head, I'm thinking, I imagine that felt
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: really good for her.
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: I'm sure there were probably.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: Plenty of reasons, but if that was one as a
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: known way that things work, then that could have felt
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: like a big burden off of her back. But she
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: did move on and James Thurston comes back into the picture.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: So in nineteen thirty one, Bertha and this paleontologist that
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: I mentioned earlier, James Thurston, they got married. Unfortunately, that
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: didn't last long because the next year James had a
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: heart attack and died, and that.
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: Was in the field.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: I believe he was like lifting up a rock or
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: something like that, had a heart attack and he died. Yeah,
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: very very tragic. And then not long after his death,
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: Bertha got sick. She went back to Los Angeles, and
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: even though she was often sick, at the same time,
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: the Great Depression was happening. So we're thinking about what
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: time it was. This was the early nineteen thirties. The
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: Great Depression was happening. A lot of institutions like this
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: would have been suffering because of it, and the museum
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: she was working at was, but Bertha kept working there
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: because she was that girl, you know, she was she
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: was integral to the situation. And they said as much
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: in writing. She was like important to the operations. What
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: she had did at these excavations was really important. So
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: they acknowledged what she had done in the past and
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: also were aware of how much of an asset she
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: could continue to be in the future. And I'm sure
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: they're just like, you know, like she was good at
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: her job. But after James died, the people on the
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: expedition that she was on, that big Gypsum Cave expedition.
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: They didn't want to continue work.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: The soft Bones ended up going to Caltech where they
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: stayed uncataloged, unfortunately. But she continued work and she was
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: working as an assistant archaeologist and ethnologist at the museum.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: She began visiting and researching the Maidu people. I believe
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: I'm producing that correctly Maidu. She published articles on their
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: culture and their history in the museum's journal master Key.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: She would often also credit the women that she interviewed
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: as her collaborators. And she did get married again, So
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: in nineteen thirty six she married Espera Oscar de Courti
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: or Iron Eyes Cody, someone she had long known from
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: Hollywood since they were like teenagers. He's been described as arrogant,
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: has a big ego, also been described as being a flirt.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: But their marriage was fine and apparently he supported Bertha's
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: work and she started getting more involved in Native rights activism.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: So she was moving away from this archaeological work, doing
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: more of this asnological work and you know, going out
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: to visit people, becoming more active in this activism, and
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: she hosted and co organized the first meeting of the
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: California Indian Rights Association, which was held at the Southwest Museum. Unfortunately,
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: there was another tragedy in her life. In nineteen forty two,
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: her daughter Billy died from an accidental gunshot when hunt
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: with her grandmother, So that really affected her.
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: Bertha left her.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: Position at the museum, even though she kept working with
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: them as a consultant. So that is pretty much kind
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: of where her work on the archaeological side of things
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: has started to dwindle and she's starting to move back
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: into some of her Hollywood work. She worked with her
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: husband in a consulting business that advised projects on Native
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: American culture and wardrobe. Now this is something that I
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: was not expecting to be the case in this story,
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: but things like this like to surprise you, and he
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: her husband iron eized Cody was ironically passing as Native American.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: He wasn't actually Native American, but he was accepted as
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: a Native American and he did get jobs for Native
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: Americans in Hollywood. I think his heritage was like was
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: it Irish or Italian? One of them somebody will know
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: from that name Sortilian Sicilian?
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: Okay, Sicilian, so very very uh.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: That's a very interesting part of their story. They also
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: had a TV show about Native American history and folklore
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: today given deeper on this, like to make this a
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: little bit weird knowing the fact that he was doing
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: this passing thing, and she also started acting again. She
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: posed for painters in the nineteen fifties. They adopted two children,
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: and she died in nineteen seventy eight. Her grave marker
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: just said missus Ironeyes Cody. So also like even it
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: feels like even more salt to the wound knowing that
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: he was passing. However, it's not I will say, I
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: know it is kind of like absurd.
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: A lot of things like this happened.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: But being familiar with reasons for passing and for black
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: people as well, it's like, oftentimes there's a lot of
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: nuance to it. People are they're trying to save themselves
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: in different ways. And there seemed to me, based on
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: work that people who know a lot more about Bertha
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: and her history and a lot more about the reasons
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: he would do it is like he was actually putting
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: people on in Hollywood. So this work that they were
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: doing together was really uplifting a lot of other Native
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: American people who wanted to work in Hollywood. It was
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: getting them jobs, and he was a great business person,
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: so he was able to contribute to the community in
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: that way, and he had a different kind of social
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: currency because he was passing. So I'm not sure I
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: know that people knew that he was so other Native
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: Americans in the community, I'm unsure how aware, like the
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: Hollywood execs and all the other people who were making
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: the hiring efforts were.
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: Of it, which feels like kind of a play.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: It's like almost like in a way, they sent him
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: out as an agent, and he was willing to be
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: an agent for them, And in the meantime, he was
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: not just putting people on in Hollywood, but he was
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: like helping out people on a more interpersonal level, like
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: paying for funerals when people couldn't pay for them in
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: the Native American community and doing things like that.
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: So it's the theme of the show layered.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: But also just very you know, fascinating to think about.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: But anyway, like I said, her grave Marker just said,
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: missus ironized Cody references to her, and media often did this.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: They diminished her accomplishments in favor of uplifting the men
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: that were around her. And it was clearly a lot
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: of men around her, and these men were people of stature,
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: so they were doing things like saying she was the
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: wife of Ironized Cody or the daughter of Arthur Parker
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: and all of that. Another funny part of this related
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: to Ironized Cody is that after she died, he published
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: an autobiography which was actually ghost written, where he said
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: that Bertha partied a lot and drank a lot, and
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: so this at first, when I read this, I was like,
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: I'm throwing the chair across the room. I'm flipping the table,
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: like you know, okay, like I let it go before,
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: But what's up with that? That feels just because it
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: feels so familiar. We've heard stories of like men partners
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: maligning their women partners behind their backs after they're dead,
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: after not together anymore, and so my first thought was like,
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: this could be nothing but malicious intent. But a lot
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: of what's made up in this autobiography, which by the way,
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: is called I haven't read it, but it's called Ironized
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: Cody my life as a Hollywood Indian, But a lot
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: of it is made up in there. There's some truth,
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: some untruth, but a lot of it about her was
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: made up seemingly it was a kind of meta commentary
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: about on the act of myth making and performance in Hollywood,
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: and so essentially this book functioned as part of his act.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: And this is something that Margaret M. Bruce Shak said
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: about this situation, about this autobiography, and so I wanted
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: to wait to share her name until the end because
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: there's so much in this that I'm talking about that
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: has been uncovered by Margaret M. Bruces Shak, like she
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: has a book called Savage Kin, Indigenous Informants and American Anthropologist.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: And if you like this story, you want to learn
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: more about Bertha, then you'll go you can go there.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: I'll say that again in a second. Let's just finish
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: the first story, because we're almost there. So this book
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: was apparently part of that act. This Society for American
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: Archaeology ended up creating the Bertha Parker Cody Award for
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: Native American Women, which supported women in gender non conforming
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: people who were studying archaeology or museum studies.
• 46:05
  Speaker 4: And they already.
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: At that point had a scholarship in honor of birth
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: as a father who saving this for the end, was
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: the first male Native American archaeologist.
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: So I ran in the family.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: Okay, so yeah, it's particularly upsetting to see how her
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: accomplishments were diminished by this kind of lack of saying
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: her name specifically or the overshadowing of her work because
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: of all these prominent men who surrounded her. It was like,
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: you know, all of these tall figures, and she 's
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: this one, like crouched down in the middle.
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: Because of the way other people have spoken.
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: About her, written about her, her legacy, and we see
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: this a lot on these episodes of Female First, but
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: it just felt so it felt so particularly it felt
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: like a needle specifically here for me, just because even
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: at the time, people said this is the biggest archaeological
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: find in North America at the time, this is a
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: hugely this is a huge upheaval of information that might
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: completely upend how we thought about how humans migrated and
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: where they were at a specific point in time. They
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: knew it was huge, recognized it as such, and so
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: it just felt like just a lot of salt on
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: the wound to think about how her accomplishments were just
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: pushed to the wayside because of the men who were
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: around her, and that her name wasn't said specifically, they
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: didn't call her about her name. And also it feels
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: like the amount of easily accessible information about Bertha doesn't
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: match her stature because of how big this discovery was.
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: Of course, like I said, people like Margaret brushak I
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: have helped bring that to light. But it's just like
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: so many people, all of.
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: The white women who I've done a lot of.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: Work in archaeology and paleontology and anthropology, you can find
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: a million articles written by major publications on them, and
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: you just don't see that same level of volume about
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: her and that and not even feels it is a
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: slight to her legacy, and it just shows how much
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: more like work has to be done in order for
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: her to gain that same kind of limelight. Is just
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: such a huge discrepancy of what she's done as a
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: pioneering archaeologist, and like you know how much she's been
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: honored in the year since. But I'm so glad I
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: could talk about her today because in the beginning I
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: felt like, do I have enough to bring? And every
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: time I feel that way, first of all, oftentimes I'll
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: like find all these amazing, extra cool facts about the person.
• 48:55
  Speaker 4: After I like do more digging.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: But then also I have to step back and remind myself,
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: and I feel like it's also good to offer this
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: sentiment to people who are in your audience, Like that's
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: a perfect reason to bring that person to the table, right,
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: that is a perfect reason to do that.
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: So glad we got to talk about her today.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: And I'll say again the name of the book Savage
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: can Indigenous Informants and American anthropologist. The author is also
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: an Indigenous anthropologist. Her name is Margaret M.
• 49:29
  Speaker 4: Bruce Shack.
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: Go to that book and read it because I touched
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: on the surface of birth the story today. There's so
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: much more that's cool about her story, but also her parents'
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: story is in that book too, also.
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: Very very cool. And m R.
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: Harrington, who was a white guy by the way, I
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: don't know if I said that, but he was a
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: white guy who was advocating for Native Americans in this
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: way like bring them all here. Like he seemed to
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: be a person who was very impassionate about the work
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: but also impassionate about making sure that Indigenous people. I
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: had to say, in the work that they were doing
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: of digging up you know, these artifacts that were on
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: their land, and a lot of these were artifacts from
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: different Native American nations to that that they were finding
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: when they were at these sites.
• 50:14
  Speaker 4: So go look it up. Really interesting.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, listeners, go look it up. I want to
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: look it up. This first of all, Eves, You're an
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: excellent storyteller. I was so riveted. There's a lot of
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: twists and turns and romance in this one. I wasn't
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: expecting the like surprise additional first at the end.
• 50:40
  Speaker 4: There you go.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: It's great. It's great, And as always, appreciate all the
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: nuance you provide and the context you provide. And I
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: feel like we say this all the time, but really, HBO,
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: what are you doing?
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I was going to say, this is a
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: mini series waiting to happen. Even with her later in life,
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: ironized Cody. Yeah, like because as I was like, when
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: I was looking her up, his picture popped up and
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: I was like, wait, what is this actor and not
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: realizing that they had gotten married, and then realizing this
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: is the dude that kind of represented like it was
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: the poster person for indigenous peoples for a while, and
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: realizing he didn't get out until late nineties. Yeah, in
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: real life, for not being indigenous one also that he
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: changed his name to a character name in order to
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: sound indigenous.
• 51:34
  Speaker 6: I was like, wow, and she was like, you.
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: Know what this helps my people, We'll do this like
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: probably giving yeah, well we'll say that all that, but
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: also yeah, the fact that she also had that love
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: triangle for a little bit.
• 51:47
  Speaker 4: She had them wrapped around her fingers.
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, come on, yeah, no, it's right. I was
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: thinking the same thing. I think this one, particularly though,
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: just like really would be a super cool I think
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: limited series would be good for it because I think
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: it's so character based, Like it's a lot of interesting
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: characters to explore that a limited series would definitely do
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: it justice. But it's also like iron nice Cody. He
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: feels like a very nineteen sixties performance art character. And
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: Margaret Bruce Shach mentions performance art and that once she
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: said those words, I was like, I can totally totally
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: see that, Like he leaned into the role and that
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: benefited everybody. It benefitted him because he made more money,
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: but that also meant it benefited the community, and so
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: it's kind of like it kind of started to feel
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: like while at first I was all incensed, it started
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: to feel like he was taking one for the team
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: and at the same time it was selfish, but also
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: like I am kind of fascinated with these kind of
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: performance art people who really live that weirdo world, you
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: know what I mean, Like they live in it, so
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: these things.
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: He wore these things in real life in order to
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: really like in his everyday life.
• 53:06
  Speaker 6: I had to.
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: I have to imagine he was getting most of his
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: information from her, like He's like, Okay, I'm going to
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: do this. Is this what your you know, family would
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: have whatever whatnot. But it did, it did help her
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: in him, except for the fact that it kind of
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: somehow outshadowed her amazing works, which by the way, the
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: scenes in my mind of like her going to this,
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: like the narrowest spots and everything, that's a that's action
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: right there.
• 53:28
  Speaker 4: I mean the absolutely action.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: You got tension by environment, tension by the story, the content.
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: And also I'm just thinking so much it is just
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: so cinematic. I mean, her story in itself is very interesting.
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: All the people that are in her orbit have their
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: own stories that are so in depth. But also I'm
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: just thinking about that Hollywood, that old Hollywood layer of
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: it all, and how much Native Americans had to go through,
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: how they were presented, how they were othered, How you've
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: got this other ring of the black people happening in
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: Old Hollywood, You've got this orientalizing happening in Hollywood. And
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: then you have this element of where they're doing the
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: whole Indian stick in Hollywood and still do.
• 54:14
  Speaker 4: It in a lot of ways.
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: We don't call help the properties right now they have
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: that element of it. And then I just think about
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: how you think about Indiana Jones and all of the
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: ways in which excavation has been portrayed in Hollywood, Old
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: Hollywood up into New Hollywood, and just the opportunities there
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: could be for like doing a set of a dig,
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: but also her going to a dig within the story
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: would be super cool.
• 54:42
  Speaker 4: So there's just there's Yeah, I think there's so much there.
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, it feels like a three arc structures already there.
• 54:51
  Speaker 4: It is. Wow.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: Somebody get on this please, yes. But in the meantime,
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: thank you as all always Eves. This was wonderful. I'm
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: so happy to know about this and we always love
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: to have you.
• 55:06
  Speaker 4: Yes, thank you.
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: Where can the good listeners find you?
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: Y'all can go to my website which is Eve's Jeffcote
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: dot com. That's y v E s j E F
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: F c A T dot com. Y'all can also just
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: go to Instagram I'm at not Apologizing and you can
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: go to my link and my bio there get to
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: all of the things, or just hit me up if
• 55:29
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