Latest / One Voice Many Conversations / Crushing Strongholds #057 Special Guest Tom Snow-Head of Just To Be Clear Teaching Series

Transcript

Crushing Strongholds #057 Special Guest Tom Snow-Head of Just To Be Clear Teaching Series · One Voice Many Conversations

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Hello everyone.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to another great episode of Crushing Strongholds.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is a podcast where we turn pain into power, trauma into triumph, and a place where we get to expose the lives of the enemy.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: And how do we do that?
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: We do that through people's testimonies and sharing their faith and their stories of how they have overcome and crushed strongholds in their own lives.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing more powerful than hearing the enemy get annihilated through people's deliverances, through people's testimonies, through people's stories, and through the authority of Jesus Christ.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I just absolutely love to share what people bring to the table.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: And today I have an amazing guest.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: He's a conservative believer, not part of any organized religion or denomination.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: He has many stories about the miraculous power of God and working in and through his life for the past 56 years.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so I want to welcome to Crushing Strongholds, Tom.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: So Tom, welcome in.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I know we already started our conversation early, but let's jump back in and why don't you tell everybody about yourself today?
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you for having me.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, I'm uh kind of my story.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: I grew up in denominational churches.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: I actually have a Jewish history from both sides, but didn't know about it till many years after this situation.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and it was hidden because of persecution.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: So my parents had quote unquote become Christians to hide right after World War II, during World War II.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm growing up in in the uh 50s and 60s, raised in denominational church, uh, didn't know anything about the gospel, just knew that God was real in heaven far away, and uh that I believed.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, somewhere along the way, my mother did actually meet the Lord.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: She was quite a strong believer.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: We still were stuck in denominational churches that didn't teach that.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: And um so that's good, good news.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: Well, at about also, you know, when I was a teenager, I had a very big ego.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: I had to to please my father.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: My father didn't pay attention, he didn't play ball with his boys.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm the youngest of three.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: He didn't, you know, take his fishing, he didn't do anything.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: But he loved he was an engineer, double major engineer.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: And if if I would sit at the kitchen table and learn trigonometry by the time I was in the sixth grade, then I was always in his good graces.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, that's the way I was raised to please my father that way.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: And in which point it created a big ego because he had a patent and I had to find something to do to prove that how you know smart I was.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, that's you just the ego is playing on you, and you're just a teenager.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: Well, at 14, I had just won my school up to the state science fair the year before for an experiment.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: But at 14, I'm like, I had just learned about the dangers of asbestos, and I stopped and thought, this is before the internet, so we can you actually had to go research, you know, one of those things they call library, and you have to go through the things they call books.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: An encyclopedia.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's this long.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, that whole set of encyclopedias.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, we just learned about the dangers of asbestos, and it dawned on me, what are car brake shoes made of?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: Asbestos.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: From the early 1900s till 1997, they were made of asbestos because it's strong, heavy, fire retardant.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but were we paying attention to all the fibers going in the air?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I did a little math, and it meant 60 million tons of asbestos was being worn off of brake shoes, brakes on cars every year, and a lot of that's going in the air, and asbestos dust actually goes in and destroys the lung, uh, alveoles, and it uh you know, each cell, each little fiber will destroy a cell, but then causes cancer and heart disease and all these terrible things, and that's why asbestos is so dangerous.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's why now any nowadays, since the probably last 20 years, if a ceiling tile breaks, they call in hazmat, if there's any chance that there was asbestos in that ceiling tile, you know, um, because and they're all suited up because it one little fiber.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: We were breathing tons of it.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: Well, so I created an invention that would encapsulate around every brake system on each of the four wheels on a car.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: And as you're driving down the road, the wind blowing through would be the energy source that would then pick up all the dust and put it into a deposit bag in the back that then could be, you know, empty.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: Well, created that invention and uh won my state science fair.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: Uh to do it though, I created the model.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: I would go to local brake shops and say, Can I have brake dust?
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: They'd be laying all over the floor.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, just piles.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's nobody cared in the 60s.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: And they'd say, sweep it up, have at it, here's a broom, saves me cleaning it.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know, have fun.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you're gonna run it through your machine, you can't run with sawdust.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: They don't weigh the same.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: Asbestos dust is very heavy, and so you had to run with the real thing.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, as much as God gave me a great, intelligent mind, as a teenager, there was no common sense.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: And the thing I'm talking about is I while I, you know, knew the theory this is gonna hurt you, I'm blowing mounds of dust, asbestos dust, as because this isn't a perfectly sealed system.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm 14.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: And it's blowing it through, you know, in a town, and it's in the basement of our home.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: And my mother was the only source of love.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: My father was a very hard rock person, as I told you, the only way he got his attention was at the kitchen table.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: My two older brothers were scorned because, and they were compared to me, right?
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: Because he would always diss on them and then compliment me because I would spend all those hours with him to learn math and engineering.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: That shouldn't be what a child has to do, but but we also have that great desire and need to be loved by our parents, and so that was my way to learn to adapt.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: Well, my mother was the source of love, and she'd come down the basement and she'd I'd say, you know, I want to show you, and I'd show her how it works and all this stuff, and she would just cheer me on while mounds of asbestos are flying around while I'm telling her.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that all well and good, won my state science fair, all my ego was big.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: My father and I checked and it was patent pending.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was patentable, nobody had ever created it, and I my ego is real big until my mother comes down with cancer.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: And the cancer riddles through her body in about a year, and she double massectomy, hysterectomy, gets in her lymph node system, out of control, ends up in her liver, and she dies.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: And now, all of a sudden, my ego meant nothing, and my great invention meant nothing because as now at a 15-year-old, I have the trauma that I have just killed my mother.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: For my own stupid ego to please my father, to win a science fair, to get an invention, I have just caused my mother's death.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a whole lot of trauma that is hard for anyone to handle, let alone a 15-year-old.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: One month after she passes, I noticed a rock hard knot in my abdomen round where my liver is.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I knew because I knew because I knew, like we as Christians can know, I thought I wasn't a Christian yet.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: I hadn't met the Lord.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: But I didn't have a praying mother who prayed for her boys.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: That I didn't know all those facts, but I knew that she loved God loved the Lord.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I knew that this little tumor about the size of a walnut was cancer.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: That I had the same thing she did.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: I had liver cancer, and you know, I decided I deserved it.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I wasn't gonna tell anybody because I didn't deserve to live.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: I killed my mother, and I have the guilt and the trauma of all that, and I deserve to die.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, now I'm fearing death.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm 15 years old, getting ready to die, and you know, yes, there's God up there somewhere far away, but will but will I get to heaven?
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: Because I don't deserve it.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: I just did an awful thing.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so I would for about four months, I was the only one at home.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: My other two brothers uh were gone to college and military, and my father's working 16-hour days, so I'd come home to the house alone forever, you know, from school, and I'd sit in my family room and I'd literally close my eyes every single day, and I could see a vision from God.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: Now we can get visions, but I wasn't a Christian yet, and I'd see a vision of cloud puffs from one end of the horizon to the other, just like little cotton ball, but a little bigger, you know, puffs.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: And on top of every puff was a scene in life, and I'd stare to the far end, and when that puff got a hit on top, I'd look at it, and there was a scene.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: Except the scene when life was people, some I know, some I didn't, but I wasn't in the scene, and then that would go off to there, and I'd stare again, and I'd wait till and on top of every cloud puff, I could literally watch this for hours.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: All I'd do is close my eyes, and on top of every scene was a scene in life without me.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: And it it scared the bejeebies out of me because now not only do I have all the guilt from my mother, but now I see eternity is gonna go on forever, and the world doesn't revolve around Tom.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: When Tom dies, the world isn't gonna stop.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm just you know, I I I'm now at a point of, you know, and and this tumor's growing.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean now it's probably the size of a softball.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I won't tell anybody, I don't deserve it.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and I didn't like I don't like pity, and I'm I was a real loner, and I didn't want anyone to know, and you know, don't want my father to know, but don't want anyone to know.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: So at the end of about four months, one day, sitting there in my family room, middle of the afternoon, just got back from school, watching the progression of clouds, the Lord spoke to me audibly.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: First and only time in my life I've ever heard the audible voice of God.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: We all can hear the still small, quiet voice of God anytime if we pray and we listen, you know, the Holy Spirit can speak to us.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: This was audible.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: It was so loud that it shook the building.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: It sounded like a roaring train coming through the family room.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: Except it was so full of love.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: It was so full of love.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: There was no fear, it was just his booming voice and so full of love.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: Love that was made my mother's love look so small.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: The love of God.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean the amazing, like the peace that's in Philippians 4 7.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: The peace, not a piece, uh not a piece, the love, the peace.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: So wonderful.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: And in that moment, he said two things.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: He said, I love you, and someday I'll provide you a perfect mate for you.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: And the first one made was well, the first one is like, you love me, I feel that love.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's there's no question, like I feel that love.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: Now the God of the universe took a moment from his big duties and he came to visit me, and it was amazing.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: The second part, someday I'll provide a perfect mate for you.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, God, I know you're busy, and maybe the angels didn't have enough time to give you the memo, but I'm out of here.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna be six feet under real soon.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: So this perfect mate thing, I kind of gonna just let that one go because the love part is obvious.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: There's no question.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: The second part is God, you didn't get the memo.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: I know you're in charge of the universe and everything, and you spoke everything into being, at least according to what you know the Bible says.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, okay, you just didn't get the memo.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: That's all.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: You're too busy, got it.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: Even though he says he has every hair numbered on her head, didn't know that at the time.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Every in and out about you, yeah.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: Knows everything when we comb it and lose it, he knows the number.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: So, but you know, at that moment, I didn't, he was just the God way out there that had just visited me.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: And now I'm like, oh, how do I get to meet that God?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: How do I get to meet you?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: Because heav, you know, I gotta decide heaven and hell.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't want to go to hell.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: I want to go to heaven, I want to be with you.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: And my time's up soon, so how do I reach you?
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: How do I get to know you?
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: A month later, my brother Bruce came home from college.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: His friends had talked him into doing an LSD trip, second one a year earlier than this one.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: He had had flashbacks on the first one for nine months.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: His friends, he's gullible and his he said he'd never do it again.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: His friends talked him into it.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: This time he's on an LSD trip.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: Now we're 1970.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: And um he, when he was on this trip and he's freaking out, he had gone to some churches with some friends, had had preached the gospel.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so on that trip, he called out on the Lord, and the Lord saved him, brought him down sober off the trip.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: Bruce got the Star Spangled Banner, like all the bells and the whistles.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: He came home to tell my father and I that afternoon.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I think it was on a Saturday, so my father was home or Sunday.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: He probably worked on Saturday, and um, he came home, and you know, in our home, upper middle class home, 1970, nobody did drugs, you don't joke about drugs, and marijuana would be in trouble, let alone LSD.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's like for the drug addicts, and that was you know, my father's perspective, obviously.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: And my father disciplined with the fist.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: And Bruce coming home and making a telling this, you don't make a joke about that with my father.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: My father knew he probably drank in college, but that was even a hush-hush.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: But Bruce told us, and all of a sudden I knew this has to be true because he just put his beating on the line, you know, because my father could beat him, but we were both so flabbergasted, my father didn't do a thing.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the next day I'm asking Bruce, how do I meet the Lord?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: And he told me the gospel, and he led me into the passages and the scriptures, and you know, then repent and ask the Lord to come into your life.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I did that, and for a day and a half I kept saying, you know, I repent and Lord, come into my life.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the scripture tells us, I didn't know then, that we were when that happens, we're sealed in our innermost being with the promised Holy Spirit, but our innermost being, our spirit, is deep within us.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: We don't feel from that, that's below our soul.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: We feel out of our soul and our body.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: In our soul, we have heart, mind, uh, feelings, you know, thoughts.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's the soul.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: The body, obviously, is physical feeling.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so I wouldn't feel anything.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: Bruce got the star-spangled banner, and I got uh, you know, I got goose eggs.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: Well, at that point, now I'm like, what's going on?
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: And all of a sudden I get the little voice whispering in my ear, the devil, and he's going, you know, this whole God thing's baloney.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: Because Bruce got all this sparse bangle banner, and you got nothing.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know what?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think you did it.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even think that is right.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, you think a month ago you heard the voice of God, but I I'll bet you you were just sleeping right there, awake in the middle of the afternoon, right after you just gotten home from school, young athlete.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: No, you just fell over and fell asleep.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: But in my ear, that's probably you probably didn't hear that.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: And you know what?
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: The God of the universe, way up there, he really doesn't care about you.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: And now you're just gonna die.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: So now I've got the guilt on me of my mother dying.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: I now have, I'm now the devil's winning to create anger towards God for being deceived and tricked.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: And the devil's like, hmm, you know, you don't have much time.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: You need to go live your life.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: Go wild, go crazy.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I bought that, bought into that, and for the next eight months, the first thing I did was I wanted to get on a motorcycle, little motorcycle to get around because I thought the wind blowing in my face would fix everything.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: It didn't.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: But to get that motorcycle, I had to agree with my father I'd have to go get a job so I could pay him back.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, this was just a little motorcycle, a couple hundred bucks back then, but hey, I didn't, you know, we don't do allowances, you know, you earn money.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so to go get a job, I used to mow lawns, but that didn't go to pay it back.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: So he's like, you got to go out and get a regular job.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, to do that, 1970, the only thing available to a 16-year-old was food handling.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: Well, to do that, I knew to do my plan to get this motorcycle so I could feel free, I'm gonna have to go to the county clinic and get an X-ray and a blood test, because that's what you need to get a food handle permit.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I knew if I did, my secret would be out.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: The x-ray is gonna show the tumor the size of a softball now, and the blood wasn't gonna show anything contagious in it, but when they see the the tumor, they might do a little further test to find out that it's cancer running through my blood.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: So I knew I'd have to give up the secret to to get my motorcycle, but that was I didn't know how much time I had left, so that was the price I was gonna pay.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I got the motorcycle, I got my food handler's permit, and then the next week, I come a few days later, I come walking home from school, my father's car is in the drive, which is unusual, middle of the day.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: And as I came in the door, I knew because I knew because I knew he had gotten the letter from the county clinic telling about my cancer.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: And he's in the living room and he's burning, got a fire going in 80-some degree in April.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: You don't need a fire.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: He loves fires, but come on, it was middle of the day, and I come walking in, and I see him as soon as he sees me, looks like the cat that you know ate the canary, and he flips this letter into the fire.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I got really sarcastic, and I said, What you doing?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: Burning trash?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: But we don't need to burn trash, we live in the city.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but I I like fires, I wanted to burn trash and just get rid of it.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: That thing you just threw in there looked like a letter.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: Was that a letter?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I swear it looked like a letter.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: No, nothing.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm thinking, wait a minute.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: I've had seven months to process that I'm dying.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: He just found out he lost my mother seven months ago, his wife.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: He now finds out his youngest son is dying.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: And give him a minute.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: Give him a minute, let him process.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm thinking, okay.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm thinking, well, maybe he never could really put his arm around me in real life, but maybe figuratively he'll process it, reach around, you know, maybe ask, give me medical attention.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want it, I don't deserve it.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: But at least figuratively show me some care and love.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I was hoping.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: Week later, I come walking in the door, and now there's two cars in the drive in the middle of the afternoon, my father and two insurance agents.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: So instead of talking to me, no, you can you guess where this is going.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm right there with you.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: So at this point.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, Tommy, come in the living room.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: Want you to meet somebody.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I go in there, and here's these two agents, and he introduces the whole thing.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: And in the back of my mind, I am just steaming.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'm burning.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it's one thing that you can't put your arm around me, but what are you doing taking money out?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: We're an upper middle class family.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, you can afford to bury me.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm thinking, well, maybe he is cheap and he's a Jew, you know.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so maybe, maybe, and I'm a Jew, I'm cheap, so I understand.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: So he, you know, I'm like, well, maybe he just wants to take out a little, just enough to bury me, and then buy a case of beer and drown his sorrow.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna play along because I'm and if anything, I'm very calculating and I'm not gonna give away my cards because, you know, if I have leverage, I'll decide how to play it.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so I uh so he, the agents are, you know, they talk the whole thing through, and finally they go, okay, well, to grant the policy, we need Tom to go to his doctor and get a clean bill of health.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: My father jumps in, no, no, no, oh no, oh, that's not needed.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, uh, Tommy's in sports, and you just had a physical like less than six months ago, right, Tommy?
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that part was true.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I said, Yeah, I did.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: Now, if you know anything about a boy's physical in that day, it was height, weight, blood pressure, turn your head and cough.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's a nothing burger.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so you know, and he goes, I can I could go get uh you know get a copy of that from his doctor and get that to you, would that be okay?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: And they agreed.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: So they granted was it a policy enough just to bury me?
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: No, in today's economy it was worth millions.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, are you I can't say I can't say the bad word, are you effing kidding me?
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: Are you really F and kidding me?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: Are you going to you're going to bank on my death?
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: You're not even not showing me an arm around, you're not even asking for medical help, which I didn't even want.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: And now all you're gonna do is get rich on to the bank.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: I now grew with such hate and anger at him, such deep unforgiveness, that now I'm gonna go crazy.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: Because remember, the devil's going, you should go crazy.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I did, and I became the second biggest drinker in my school at 16.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: I could drink a fifth of whiskey in two hours and then drive home on my motorcycle.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: The problem was is that I would start on the rightmost lane of four-lane, you know, inner city road heading home, and I'd wake up on the edge of the fourth of the other side, the wrong side, about ready to hit the ditch, to all of a sudden just like instantly get shoved right back over and then ride along, and then wake up again.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm way over on this edge, almost in the ditch, get shoved back over.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of badly bruised angels out there by the grace of God who were keeping me alive.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: I then went more crazy.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: I sold everything I owned and everything my father owned that I'd get my hands on, and I bought an old Harley in boxes and I built it into a chopper.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: And my hair's halfway down my back, and I'm a rebel, a drinker, and I now join, start writing with the Hell's Angels at 16.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, if I'm, you know, and the whole life is just spiraling, so this is my last hurrah, who knows how long I have, you know, I'm gonna be out of here.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I started to devise a, you know, my leverage, my plan, which was as soon as I got that hardly running good enough, I was going to blackmail my father and tell him I know about insurance fraud that you just pulled, and I want X thousands of dollars now because I'm gonna take a trip cross country, you know, from Ohio, as far as he knew, California, and I'm just gonna have my last hurrah, then you can come pick up the pieces and collect your money.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: And what I didn't tell, I this was my plan, and what I was gonna tell in my plan was I was actually stopping at the Grand Canyon, and I was gonna ride my bike off.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: I was gonna commit suicide because if I was gonna die, like I'm so full of hate, anger, rage, guilt, you know, my trauma was so deep.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone has different traumas.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: This is mine.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: And if I'm going to die, then I'm gonna choose how, and I'm gonna do, you know, the one big leap right off the bottom.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Evil can evil.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: Evil can evil, with no plan to get to the other side.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I was also planning then to pin a letter inside my clothes so that when they picked up the pieces at the bottom, it would reveal my father's insurance fraud, so he would lose the payout, he'd lose all the money he had to give me up front.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's tough to a Jew.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then I really hoped he'd go to jail.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's how much rage and anger I had towards him.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I never got to start the plan because every time I'd get that motorcycle running, I would be riding around and I'm rooking all the time.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like every time he got near the edge of the city, it's like an angel with a sword.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: Remember Balaam?
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: Would touch the motorcycle and the engine would break.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: I I couldn't get it outside the city.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: Once again, God's graciousness, but keeping the angels busy.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm I'm a bad case, keeping angels busy.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so, long story coming to an end.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, when I was sitting, uh end of the eight months, I'm sitting around on my motorcycle with other biker buddy gang, and we're drinking bottle after bottle of cheap wine, drunk, and uh we had a discussion.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: We'd have discussions all the time.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: But this time we got onto spiritual subjects, and that's unusual.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: We wouldn't do that.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: So then I'm like, Oh, you know what?
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna tell what happened to Bruce, and then they can scoff, and I'm gonna scoff right with them.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so I told them, and they didn't scoff.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, Well, that just made me mad.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: So now I'm gonna tell you my story, you know, and then you'll really scoff, God talk to me, and all this other.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: And as I told him, and I said, when I told him the story, and I said, nothing happened when I'd asked the Lord in my life, in that instant the inner from the innermost being, the Holy Spirit broke through into my soul.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: John 7 rivers of living water flowing from our innermost being, Jesus said, was the Holy Spirit flowing it right through us and out of us.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: And all of a sudden, I had the fullness of that love and that peace and that joy again.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: And all of a sudden, I was sobered, and I looked around and I went, Why am I here?
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and I looked at my biker buddy gang and I went, gotta go.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: Never saw him again.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: Went home, the whole Grand Canyon trip's off.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: I know I'm dying.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: I've been dying for a year and a half.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: My my tumor has grown to larger than a football inside of me, hard as a rock.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: I know I'm dying, but now I know where I'm going.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: I know why my mother wasn't afraid of dying.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: When she was dying, she was not afraid a moment.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: And now I knew.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: And now I knew I was getting to go be with Papa God, the one who had spoken to me, not the one that the lying devil said didn't.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I knew where I was going.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so God graciously led me to a local church where I was able to grow.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I can tell you the rest of that part of the story, or did you want to interject anything?
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, I'm I'm enjoying every bit of your conversation.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's quite intriguing.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: I I do feel, you know, you're telling your story about your mom, and I I know that, you know, being 56 years old now you you have more of a understanding but of of how God's love is.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: But I know, you know, blaming yourself and thinking that that was all your fault without really understanding or realizing what you're doing, it really wasn't your fault.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm sure you I I'm sure you've overcome that, I'm hoping by now.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: If not, I'm gonna tell you anyway.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right, you know, no, I do understand it logically.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think if you know in that moment of God's speaking to you audibly and he's telling you he loves you, I think that's a really big sign of clarity that you know that blame, you you can take that blame and not have I mean and not not hold on to that anymore, let it go.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_02: And with my mind, I was able to process that, but the guilt inside that was a deep-seated area, that's a little later, and I'll tell you when when he had me deal with forgiveness towards my father and forgiveness to myself.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I I'll be glad to tell you about that, those strongholds, the healing that happened.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: But before that happened, we have to get to the physical healing.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: And um, so I was birthed uh in, met the Lord in 70.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: In 71 through 77, I was in the charismatic move.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: It was 68 to 77.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: Got to see the power of God, amazing, miracles, wonderful, unbelievable.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_02: We would meet, we joked, we met six days a week and twice on Sunday, and it was pretty much the truth.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: The regular church had two Sundays and one midweek, and the rest were home groups all across the city.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: And literally, we'd go and be in the presence of God for hours.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: We wouldn't go home until 11, 12, 1 at night.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: We, you know, the worship was amazing.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh people think today that, you know, we hear the worship groups in their, you know, song leaders, and and it's all good, except when you've been spoiled.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: And we who lived through that saw the power of God flowing.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: There were no worship teams.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: It would begin with worship on one side of the room and just flow like a, you know, in waves.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: And literally you could worship for hours and think you were there for minutes.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: The presence of God was so thick.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: We saw miracles, we saw all the things, we saw deliverance, we you know, learned all kinds of things.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we'd watch five-year-olds pray for people and watch them fall out and they'd be they'd wake up healed.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, God is not a respecter of those who think they're the most spiritual.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: He had didn't have a lot of positive things to say about the Pharisees and Sadducees.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: But he did say, if you have if you have faith like a child.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so, and even though I might go up to the altar to pray for people, I never felt like the Lord said, go get prayed for.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I already know where I'm going.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm actually happy now because I can't wait to go see Papa God.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like I'm in no rush to get healed because uh, you know, I get to go BC with Papa God real soon.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not afraid of death.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: I can't wait.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so, but anyway, studying the word, uh learning all the time, hearing the still small, quiet voice of God all the time, and just having a great time.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: So one night for one of these meetings, I was riding home on my motorcycle, probably the chopper, and uh I was um as I was heading home, Lord and I were having a discussion, which is normal, wasn't unusual, and he says, So do you see in Isaiah where I said by his stripes you are healed?
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: I went, uh-huh.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: Well, do you see in First Peter where I said by his wounds you were healed?
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_02: I went, uh-huh, and all of a sudden it's done on me, are present to future were past.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_02: And he says, Isaiah was looking to the future, Peter was looking to the past, both were looking at the cross.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: He says, I finished everything at the cross.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: He says, Would you like that healing?
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'm getting ready to go home, be home with Papa God.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: Why do I what do I want a healing for?
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like nonchalant, going, Yeah, whatever.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: If you want to, yeah, whatever.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that's my response.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to get spiritual with God.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: God, God hates our religiosity, hates our false spirituality.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: He loves the good, the bad, and the ugly.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: He likes realism and good, bad and ugly.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I got a lot of bad and ugly.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, if I have any good, it's him in me.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_02: So uh I said, ah, sure, whatever.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: In that moment, I felt a change.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: Within 24 hours, the tumor that had grown from a walnut to larger than a football totally melted, dissipated, and was gone.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: That is absolutely amazing.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: I've I've I've heard of you know similar stories to that.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've I've had some miraculous healing in my own body.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen miraculous healing on other people's bodies.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, people that have been healed of cancer and you know, just various different types of things, you know.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I've had I've also had people question me and say, Well, God healed them, why doesn't He heal everyone?
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Well, you know, he's he's not a res like you said, he's not a respecter of persons, but you know, we all have our own path to walk.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe there's was a path of healing that needed to be, you know, it brings forth a testimony like what you're sharing right now.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you know, just like the woman at the well, Jesus went and met her there.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't meet everyone, every woman at the well.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: He met her, and because he knew that when he told talk to her, she was gonna go and relay the message.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: The woman at the at the at the at the burial when he when they rolled the stone.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um Martha.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: Mary, I mean.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: Mary?
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Mary.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: Not going.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: I said Martha.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, yeah.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, he met her and he said he knew he was gonna meet her and no other person because he knew he she was gonna go tell the story.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, that's that's what he that's who he chooses to meet people.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: The people in the Bible that are chosen are the ones that were willing to go.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't mean we're all chosen for things we all have giftings and we're all gifted in different mannerisms, but um God knows what we're gonna do and what we're not gonna do.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I've explained to people with the Bible, because there's thousands of promises in the Bible, but if he were to hand you every single one of those promises and you would you're you're not at a spiritual level to handle them, they would just go to the wayside.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: So why would he bother to give you every single promise in the Bible right now, knowing that it's gonna go to waste?
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: He's not a wasteful God.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he's very very studious, he's very, you know, diligent in in his planning and thinking and everything that he does.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so I always explain that to people, you know, that's what God does when it when it comes to healing or not healing.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I find it absolutely amazing, and I love to hear stories of healing, just like even my own healing, um, because I had a I have a really weird liver, which is you said you had you know cancer in your liver.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: My my liver um was stingy.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: I call it my stingy liver, and um I was very anemic, and you would touch me and I would just bruise really easily.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: And the doctor's going, Oh, you need iron.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: You need you know, you're an iron deficient.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, coming to find out I wasn't iron deficient, my liver just wasn't releasing it.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: So my liver was had an abundant amount of iron, and if they would have given me iron, it would have killed me because it would have been too much for me.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um and but they didn't find out until later, you know, they were doing all these tests and they found out that my liver was being stingy.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: So they had to work with that.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I went to the um I was running the homeless ministry with another couple, and I went there and somebody said, Hey, does anybody want healing?
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Yeah, I want some healing, you know, I'll take it, you know.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: What what can it hurt, right?
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, What do you want healing for?
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Well, I just found out I have a really stingy liver, and and so if you want to pray for that, I'll you know, that'd be great.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: And he prayed for me and I haven't had a problem with it since.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I do believe in miraculous healings, and right, you know, I've had my own you know stories on that, and I've seen people just just get up and walk where where they couldn't walk, or they you know, people that couldn't, you know, suck on a cane or wheelchair, whatever, now they're using both feet or whatever, you know.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I have to absolutely believe in it, think it's wonderful.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: So praise God for that for you.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, I want you to finish your telling your story.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_02: So well, just just to dovetail on what you said though, because yeah, there are a lot of people who go, Well, if God healed you, why won't he heal me?
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know, why did you get it?
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, why did my mother die at 47?
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_02: She was a loving believer.
• 39:42
  unknown: Right.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_02: Why did he let her die?
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_02: Because she was praying for her boys, he already did the work she needed to do.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: She had put the prayers in place, the angels were in place getting ready for her boys to come.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, um, we can't see what God has.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know, people go, Well, God will answer your prayer no matter what.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: He does, but it's not the way we think.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes people go, well, they want to treat God like He's a genie in the bottle.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_02: And if you rub him really hard with your faith, he'll grant you three wishes.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: God doesn't play that game, he doesn't do the dog and pony show.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: As you said, he will do it when he wants to.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: Three years ago, I had congestive heart failure, and I was so near death it was ridiculous.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: But he brought me back through.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: It was the end of 40 years in the wilderness, you know, uh, for me, and it was wonderful.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: Right now, I'm dealing with prostate cancer and going so you know, going through congestive heart failure, it was done with medical doctors, with prostate cancer medical doctors.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: God's the he's God.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_02: And if we think we can just rub him the right way and get what we want, we're full of baloney.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_02: As I teach my 13-year-old daughter around the house, BS means baloney sandwich.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_02: We all know what BS is, yeah.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_02: But around here it's baloney sandwich.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so the thing is, is that if we had eyes to see, yes, life's hard.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, God set it up that way if we study the Bible, and we have a hundred years plus or minus.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: I almost had 16 and then done.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: But we have a hundred years or less, and this is a testing ground.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's a smattering out of eternity, very little part.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_02: And in this testing ground, he never said life's gonna be easy, a bowl of cherries, puppy dogs, and rainbows.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_02: He lets it be hard because what will we do?
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: Will we seek him through the middle of it, or will we just play religion?
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: Will we go chase all the false spiritual?
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_02: Will we do all these things?
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: Will we pretend that God doesn't exist as an atheist?
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_02: Or we just agnostic and go, we don't care.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_02: Guess what?
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: It all is a testing ground.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_02: And life with him here, let alone eternity, is worth it all.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_02: In 56 years of walking with him, I can tell you, life is wonderful because of him.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_02: Now, sometimes it was footprints in the sand because he was carrying me.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I had a lot of wilderness years, but that's still just the loving father who has every hair numbered on our head.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_02: He knows the number of every atom in our beings.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's beyond comprehension of who and how mighty he is.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I love my wife and my uh children.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, my current wife, I told you earlier, I had a first wife, and that was a troubled marriage.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_02: My second one was the uh when he promised me that that he'd give me my perfect mate.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's her.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know when said the first marriage was supposed to, yeah, you didn't say when.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't say which one.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_02: Didn't say which one.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_02: So the first one was beyond difficult.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_02: We won't even spend time on that.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_02: I talked off camera.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I love my current wife and I love my five children, four from the first and one with the current, and you know, good friends, good believers, brothers and sisters have a won all that, you know, work our jobs, be responsible, pay your bills, all that's part of life.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but walking every day with the true and living God, waking up and being able to say, How are you doing today, Papa?
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's what Abba Father means when it in the Bible when it says it means Papa.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_02: He's Papa God.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_02: Now, there were some years in there where he was just Lord because.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: I was going through such hard times in this wilderness.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: And he wasn't popping.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: Oh God.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, but but some people always ask, why do some people get healed and some don't?
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: You hit it, but I just wanted to dovetail on that.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_02: Then we get on to your next, or you want me to continue on any of the healing of the forgiveness.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I want to jump.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to talk about the organized religion real quick because I think that Okay.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: I I love that you're you have a lot of transparency in that you're you no, I I cannot stand organized religion or you know, denominational churches.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said in before we started recording, you know, being yo-yoed um in and out of foster homes and going through different churches and seeing just different religions, you know, from Mormonism to um you know, Jehovah's Witness to Um Lutheran to Methodist to Baptist.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I could just keep going.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's so many religions, and I was like all over the place, you know.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, what are they doing?
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, what are they doing?
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what's that?
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, because I am so curious.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: And being saved at 10 years old, you know, I went to a Billy Graham crusade.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: And the one thing I remember, I was 10 years old, we were at the very top of the stadium, great big, huge pavilion.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I was with my my foster grandma at the time, and I just remembered I need that Jesus he's talking about.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's all I need.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: I just got to get to Jesus.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't care about nothing else.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: There's thousands of people there.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: And my grandma was like, Oh no, you can't go down there.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: There's too many people.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: I said, You just sit right here, I'll be right back.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I took off because I knew I said, you know, if I'm here for a reason, and that's the reason, if Jesus wants me down there, he's gonna get me down there and he's gonna get me back.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: I said, You I'll be fine.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I I just he I I was so comfortable in going and seeking him.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I couldn't wait to have him.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: I I knew that he was what I needed in my life because I didn't have the structure and like you said, the love and the compassion and and I I wanted everything that Billy Graham was talking about with this Jesus fella, you know.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I couldn't wait to get it, you know.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: But the thing that I didn't receive after that moment at 10 years old is I didn't really receive discipleship.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: I did I really wasn't taught, you know, this is a personal relationship.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: This isn't just here, you know, here's a stuffed teddy bear to keep you comfortable, or here's something that you call out on when you're in need, or you know what I mean, kind of thing like you know, when it's um necessary or convenient.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this is something that you need to build a relationship with.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: And even though I I knew Jesus was with me, he's he's he's protected me.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: There, you know, there's stories I could share, but I won't get into those.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: But I know that when I was older, uh someone had asked me, um, so what is your relationship like with Jesus?
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Oh, I pray.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, because you know, and I thought that was it, you know, because I I really did not have the discipleship.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: I did not really realize that I was actually missing the whole picture.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: Even though I I did have a relationship with Jesus, I just didn't have the ultimate relationship with him.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: I did have the connection and the convenience and all of that.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, he said to me, No, what's your relationship with Jesus like?
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Well I pray.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: What you what you getting at here?
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was like, you know what I'm getting at?
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, Well, that's good.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now what's your relationship like?
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I go to church.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, what's your relationship?
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: And he kept drilling me.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, What is your problem, man?
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is what is your deal?
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: And and he's like, You're not getting it.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, I'm making me wonder if you actually have a relationship with Jesus because you can't even speak about it.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because you speak of Jesus, but you don't speak about the relationship that you're supposed to have with him.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: He was like, you know, just because you know a scripture in the Bible doesn't make you a scholar.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: Just because you know a verse, and then I was like, man, but as I started reading the scripture and I I was like, you know, I felt really, you know, that guilt because I didn't know who Jesus was, I just wasn't connecting myself to, I wasn't allowing the intimate relationship with him.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: I was just letting him be my like my little buddy friend, you know, like when I need you, you're there, you know.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that really opened my eyes to, you know, a lot of the religion because I've been through all these churches and not one pastor said, What is your relationship with Jesus like?
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, oh my gosh, that's all that organized religion.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's just, you know, I wasn't taught about the Holy Spirit or any of that.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, I'm an adult.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: I went through all these churches and I don't know none of this.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how is this possible?
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_00: I went to all these churches, you know, and I was just like, man, I just got watered down, watered down preaching, you know.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, there's times I got my toes stepped on, but I'm I just felt like I almost felt a little betrayed, you know, a little bit.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: But then I thought, you know, once I decided I can have a relationship with Jesus without having a church or having anything, it's my relationship with Jesus.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when it became intimate.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's when I realized I had the connection.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because when I when we go to stand before God, and I'm this is for all of the everyone that's listening, when we all go to stand before God, there's not gonna be somebody beside you, behind you, or around you.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's you and God.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: So you might want to make it, you might want to get get right with him because that's where it's gonna count no matter what.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_02: You're right.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I learned that, it made me um straighten up a little bit because I was a tyrant.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was kind of I was kind of playing devil's advocate, if you will.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was like, oh, let me see if I could test the waters here.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't know why I was like that.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: I was just kind of like I was a little punk, you know, for a while and God had to get get a hold of me and straighten me out.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm glad he did, you know.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because now look what I'm doing, but you know, but I love that you you don't you know you don't like or uh organized religion, so I wanted to touch base on that.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I I I I actually at the end of 70 in 77 when the charismatic move ended, and like I said, we were seeing the miracles of God, the power of God, you know, for me I got to see it all those years and it was amazing.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_02: And in 77, the men in charge, put a double quotes, because it can't be men or women, uh they made a decision.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_02: The charismatic move was gonna split into two moves the discipleship movement and the faith movement.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, okay, God was doing something by his spirit that men can't control, but the men were gonna come in and control it.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_02: And they created two denominations, which by the way, killed the charismatic move.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I could see immediately it was gonna kill it, and I watched it die.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_02: Well, my spiritual father came to me and he said, Well, Tom, I know you believe in being a disciple, and I know you believe in faith.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_02: Which one will you join?
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Neither.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_02: And he goes, Exactly.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I said, and by the way, from this day forward, I never want to be known as a charismatic again.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_02: He goes, then what are you?
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_02: I said, from this day forward, I want to be known as a Christian.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's not religion.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's it and it's like I swore off religions and denominations.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_02: And if you really look at denominations, I use Claude AI as a resource.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_02: I don't, you know, it's it's it's a good resource.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I asked Claude the other day, I said, how many denominations are there in the world?
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_02: Because I'm thinking a couple dozen major religions, maybe uh two or three hundred denominations.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_02: Claude came back and said there's between 47,000 to 49,000 denominations right now, estimated to be 64,000 by 2030.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_02: Now, what's a denomination?
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's a split in the body of Christ.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_02: People standing up and going, I'm right, you're wrong.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, we're right, you're wrong.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we're the Baptists, so we're right.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_02: No, we're the Pentecostals, we're right.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we're Lutheran, we're Catholic, we're charismatic.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_02: Even the ones who say we're non-denominational, we're those are just a different kind of denomination.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_02: They're just now we all can meet in 47,000 buildings across the world, whether it's our own home or a church building, you know.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_02: Personally, I'm not into mega churches at all, but you know, even people can meet there.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_02: We can meet.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's been split 47 to 49,000 times.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_02: That should just tell us who's winning when Ephesians says, We battle not against flesh and blood, but against rulers and principalities and high places.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: Where do you think they're battling?
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_02: Is to say in the day of Daniel, and he's praying for 21 days before the messenger angel gets through and says, Hey, we've been up here for 21 days.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_02: Michael and the warriors, they're doing battle, and it took 21 days for me to get through.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_02: They're battling the king of Persia and the king of Syria, and they weren't talking about physical kings, they were talking about spiritual entities that were over the country, the those spiritual entities of Persia and Syria.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_02: What do you do in the church?
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_02: You think that's where the enemies lives now?
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_02: No, he's ruling over the church, he's in the midst of every denomination and religion, and people go, no, Tom, you're stupid.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_02: We have watched Hollywood, and we know, we know so much from Hollywood.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: Church is a Hollywood, that's for sure.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_02: The devil wears a red suit, pitchfork, horns, big old tail.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_02: He couldn't come into the church.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_02: He we'd recognize him in a heartbeat.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_02: And by the way, we've also watched you.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_02: We've watched Exorcist, we've watched all the other movies where you have a priest or and they'll stand up with a cross and the devil will back off going, oh, and and they throw a little holy water and he'll melt like the wizard of Oz.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_02: And we know that if he actually touched the Bible right there, you know, in your middle of your worship, he'd he'd catch you burst into flames.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_02: So we know Hollywood.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_02: So Tom, you're just stupid.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm gonna say, okay, maybe you're right, except let's look at the scriptures.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_02: And the scriptures say that Lucifer, Satan, was the greatest of all God's creation, still is the most powerful of all the finite creatures ever made.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_02: God's infinite, but of the finite creatures, Satan is way up here, and we're down way down here, like an ant compared.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_02: He's also the most beautiful of all creation.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think when he got kicked out of heaven, he turned into a red suit?
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_02: No, he still has that beauty.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_02: Why does the scripture say he masquerades as an angel of light?
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_02: So do his workers.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_02: Because he can.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_02: He's the most beautiful, he can put on any facade.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_02: His demons, who third that fell with him, can put on these facades.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_02: And he has human workers that masquerade.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_02: We have such, we're so fooled.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_02: And we go, okay, but he, Tom, you're still wrong because even when we're worshiping in church, he can't enter in.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_02: He can't be there.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_02: I go, really?
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like there, you can't get that close to the presence of God.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_02: I go, really?
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_02: Then let's go to Job chapter one.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_02: The devil's going to and fro across the earth looking for someone to devour.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_02: And he's kind of sick and tired of the easy pickings, so he goes, gets in God's face.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_02: You mean he went back to heaven and he got kicked up?
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_02: Right into God's face, right in front of God, closer than Moses ever was.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_02: Closer than anyone has ever been except Jesus.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_02: Right in God's face, and goes, If you just let me touch Job.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's that story.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you mean you don't think getting in God's presence in his face, getting in that personal distance two foot away, is not more of the presence of God than you're the best worship we've ever seen.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_02: Because our best worship is about a pittance compared to what the presence of God can be.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_02: On our best worship days, we're just touching, okay?
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_02: As I said, I was spoiled.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_02: And with the charismatic move, I would say this.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_02: I believe nowadays on our best worship, we're hitting about a 1% charismatic move, may have hit a 10%, and there was another 90% to go.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_02: So there's just and our best worship days, we're at a 1% of what we could have with the presence of God.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's just my opinion.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_02: That part's not scriptural.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you say that because it when I when I talk about stuff like that, people think I'm insane.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's scary that they don't even see that.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_00: And um it it it blows my mind, really, because I I I think the same thing.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I love the story of Job.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_00: And um I didn't like the ending though.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_00: But does anybody nobody liked the ending because God doesn't give Job an answer because that's because we always want an answer, you know.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, and I remember just finding myself in those situations where God, I need an answer, but you know, He doesn't have to answer you.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_00: Just like when your kids, you know, say why, why, why, and you don't have to tell them why, you know, like I'm the parent, that's why.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_00: Go to your room, whatever.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think about I tell my kids that illustration, like, I don't have to give you an answer, just like God didn't answer Job.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_00: So if you want to argue about it, go talk to God.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_00: He wrote the book, you know, and they're like, gosh, really, mom.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_00: But no, it's like um people don't see that we we we are missing it, we're missing the mark.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_00: And and it says in the Bible that even Christians are all gonna be deceived in the end.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_00: We are already deceived.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_00: I see it every day.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_00: And when I try to, I you know, and I'm not trying to take in the Bible, I'm not a Bible thumping or any of that, but when I talk the truth, I have another podcast called Truth Be Told, and we just speak nothing but scripture and we just talk about it.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_00: And and we're not trying to, you know, pick on anybody, you know, because God says, you know, you you know, you need to be loving and kind when you're doing this, you know.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, if you were gonna act like Jesus, you know, but Jesus did flip over some tables too.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you kind of got that balance you gotta find.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_00: But we don't really people don't really talk about it, you know, the deception that's there.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_00: And and you know, Lucifer was given the reign over the entire earth.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_00: Do you that doesn't mean he can't set foot in a church?
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_00: So why do people think that?
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and now I do know that it says if you call out on the name of Jesus, he is to flee, but that's if you're addressing him and you know you're addressing him.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_00: But if you don't know you're addressing him, he can be right beside you at any point in time.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_02: And and the caveat with what you just said, agree with what you're saying, is that we have to learn how to walk with the Lord with his Holy Spirit flowing through us.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um in my first book, I have a chapter called In Christ.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, a lot of people think Christ is Jesus' last name.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I love the Greek and the Hebrew.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't think anyone translation is, you know, people are like, you'll have to do King James, or if if you don't, you're not reading the Bible.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry, you think King Jim had it all figured out in the 1600s?
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, no, not before not until after 12 o'clock in the day, anyway.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's there's numerous translations.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_02: I read many of them.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I dig into the Greek and the Hebrew.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_02: I like to know what's behind it.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_02: I don't take anyone's word for it.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_02: Paul said he commended the Bereans because after listening to him teach them, they went, they didn't believe him, or they didn't take it carte blanche, and they studied to see what was true.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_00: Just like testing the spirit, you have to do the same thing.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_00: He that's what he's referring to.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_00: He said, Don't take my teachings for it.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_00: Go test them to the word.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_00: And to Acts 8, I believe that is.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's how we need to be.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_02: And we need to study to show ourselves approved, and we need to learn the word, and then we need to learn Philippians 4 7, the peace that passes understanding, the peace of God that is in Christ.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_02: And in Christ, by the way, you know, I know in the Greek it can say one of the sayings is to translations Messiah.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_02: But people go Christ, like like that's our our you know, his last name, right?
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's not.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_02: Christ also means in the Greek the anointed one or the anointing.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_02: And it when it says, so it's Jesus Christ, it's Jesus the anointed one.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_02: Jesus the anointing, it's the anointing of the Holy Spirit.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_02: When if we take the word Christ and read all the scriptures we're so used to, and we say it's Christ in you that's the hope of glory, it's the anointing in you that's the hope of glory.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_02: That innermost being, when John 7, the rivers of living water can flow through us, that is the beauty.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_02: To have the mind of Christ, the mind of the anointing.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we we don't have it's not a training our mind, it's us learning to get out of the way and let the Holy Spirit flow.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_02: We have so much that we need.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_02: Jesus said, When I go, I'm gonna send you the helper, the Holy Spirit.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_02: We need that helper flowing through us at all times.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_02: Can I tell you a little uh play on words with the denomination?
• 1:01:31
  unknown: Sure.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_02: I talk about this in my first book.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um denomination.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_02: We talk, and I I love to pick on things that aren't in the Greek and the Hebrew, not even in the Bible, let alone the Greek in the Hebrew.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_02: The word denomination, well, let's back up one.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_02: Religion.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_02: People go, what religion is right, Tom?
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_02: The Baptists, the the charismatics, the Pentecostals, the the you know, Lutheran, who Methodist?
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, the only one true religion, James one says, is to take care of the widow, the orphan, and keep your heart right before God.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_02: You mean Tom, there's no other right religion?
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_02: No, there's not.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_02: Well, why do we have them?
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, let's talk about denominations.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_02: So the word denomination doesn't exist in the Bible, not in the Greek.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_02: And let's take a play on words.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_02: The first five letters, denom.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_02: Switch two letters, it says demon.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_02: Take the next two letters, in, take the next letter, a.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_02: Back up two letters, it says nation.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_02: Demon in a nation.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_02: We don't fight against principalities and powers, uh, but rulers in high places.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's no longer the king over of Syria and the king of Persia, they're ruling over denominations.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_02: The demons are having a great time dividing up the body of Christ.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_02: Why?
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_02: The devil hates God and he hates us because we're God's creation, we're his chosen people to be to walk with him.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's what the Garden of Eden was for, for us to walk with God.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_02: We'll get back there.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_02: But he couldn't let us stay in the garden because if we lived with a silver spoon, we would not know choice.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_02: So we have to have a hard hundred years to choose.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_02: So the enemy wants to destroy, he's ruling over nations.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_02: Now, Tom, you go, that's really harsh.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, somebody out there going, Tom, that's harsh.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_02: So you tell me that there's no church that's okay.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying you can't meet in a building.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_02: You can meet with a group and they call themselves a name.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_02: You can learn what you can learn.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_02: You can study and be a Berean.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_02: Don't take any preacher's word or teacher's word for it.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_02: Study, show yourself approved.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_02: Deuteronomy 29, 29.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_02: That which God, you know, God has his secrets.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_02: That'll have the quote in my head one way, but that which he reveals to us is ours.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_02: And the secret things are of the Lord are his.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's how it begins.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'm not perfect at all, so don't worry about that.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_02: Uh nobody is.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_02: The beauty is we can walk with the true living God in the midst of going to churches or buildings.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_02: But as I say, I'm not, even if I walk into a place that they call themselves non-denominational, because I usually don't walk into the denominations, you know, it's I'm not there to go, oh, I'm gonna become a member of you guys so that I can, you know, do this, and and and you can just get my tithe and you can do all these things, and I'm gonna be under your tutelage.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I think we walk a different walk.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_02: The body of Christ can join with everyone across the world and even across time that have lived and died who love the Lord, and we can walk with Him.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_02: And there's no religiosity and there's no fake spirituality, and God broke me of mine.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_02: And if you want to hear a harsh story, you read chapter two of my book.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_02: Chapter one of the first book starts the whole thing about being healed, you know, being going through all what I said in the beginning.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_02: Chapter two is where I cuss God out for 30 minutes in a row, as loud as I can, because I came to an end of myself in the 80s.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you go, Tom, that's pretty daggone rough.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and I was waiting for God to uh hit me with lightning, and I had was the end of myself.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_02: My marriage and my kids and everything was going to wanna say it, hell in a handbasket, and I was working late and all the time, 80 hundred hours a week to to come home to a wife who just nagged you and carried.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_02: On and you know, just I had hit my limit.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I walked out into the parking lot at 2 a.m., which was normal.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'd work from 9 a.m.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_02: to 2 a.m.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_02: at Bell Labs.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_02: Walking out into the pretty much empty parking lot, few lights, and probably some cameras.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_02: And if they had had YouTube back in the 80s, mid-80s, I would have been a YouTube sensation.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_02: It would have gone viral.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_02: Because here's somebody standing in the middle of the parking lot, and I'm talking to Papa God on my way out there, and I'm like, and all of a sudden I'd had it.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_02: I was no, I wouldn't, uh-uh.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_02: And we're gonna have a we're gonna have it out.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I started cussing him out, going, What in the world are you doing to me?
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I've been loyal to you and I've loved you, and I've walked through this, and I'm trying to walk through all the things you've given me with family and ministry and work and everything and being responsible.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_02: And all I get is all hell.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I am just, I for 15 minutes I ranted and I raved, and I used cuss words I didn't know I knew.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_02: I called him everything in the book that I could think of because I was waiting.
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's like time to hit me with a bolt of lightning.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_02: And if I'm gonna get hit with a bolt of lightning, then I'm going to get it all out.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_02: And when I got done at the 15-minute mark, the Lord quietly said, Are you done yet?
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_02: Am I done yet?
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just beginning.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_02: Am I done yet?
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, and the next 15 minutes of a rant and rave went on, and I did it because it's like, oh, I can't believe you.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_02: And at the end of that 15 second 15 minutes, I'm now exhausted.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_02: I literally couldn't speak, I couldn't say another word.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_02: And the Lord said, Are you done?
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_02: Waiting for lightning to hit.
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_02: And all of a sudden I was surrounded with his love.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_02: That wonderful love.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I began to weep.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Why?
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_02: Why don't you kill me?
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_02: Why don't you strike me with lightning?
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_02: I have cussed you out worse than I would do to anybody, anywhere, anytime, ever.
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_02: Why?
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_02: Because he says, I already knew what was in your heart.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_02: I just wanted you to find out.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_00: You weren't telling him anything new.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_02: And from that day forward, I lost all religiosity, no more put on, no more shows, no more false spirituality.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_02: No, Thomas, you get what you get the good, the bad, and the ugly.
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I got a lot of bad and ugly.
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't care, except that, you know, I give it to the Lord and He can work on it.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not here to please people.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not here to make you feel better.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not here to say, let's go to church and pretend and carry on and put on those fake smiles, Sunday smiles, and let's act like, oh no, the truth.
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_02: The real truth.
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, I'm a real person and I go through real traumas and I go through daily struggles, and it's in every realm.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_02: And we can be real with one another.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_02: The church is the only hospital that judges people for coming in sick.
• 1:09:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's true.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_02: The church is the army of God.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_02: My father, spiritual father, you say this one.
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_02: The church is the only army that shoots their wounded.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good one, too.
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_00: Ever heard that one.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_00: I had a pastor that used to say, and I used to love it, he would say, you know, when we get to heaven, there's not going to be a Baptist and a Pentecostal and a Methodist section.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_00: We're all going to be in the same room.
• 1:10:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you might want to pick where you're going to sit now and just sit down, you know.
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_00: And he goes, and you can't be getting mad because someone's sitting in your seat that day.
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_00: You should be thankful someone else showed up.
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because we all need to be worked on, you know.
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_00: And he's yeah, it's just great.
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_00: I loved it, you know.
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_00: I like it when people talk, you know, you know, they're talk the straight and narrow and not the you know, the the the fake facade that that gets put on sometimes the show, you know, the showmanship and stuff.
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I I feel like we have a tendency to just desi, you know, take what I I think preachers give you what they think you want, not what you need.
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that churches today are really, really bad at that.
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've been to a lot of churches.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen I've been to some good churches where people are actually really telling the truth and speaking it and they're not afraid.
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_00: They're not afraid of hurting your feelings, you know.
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_00: But then there's people that are just not gonna say anything, you know, and and I know a lot of churches don't even talk about hell.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, man, or even the lake of fire.
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, people don't even know there's the it's two different places, it's not the same thing.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_00: They think it's the same thing.
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, well, you know why?
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because they don't teach it, you know, they don't teach you that.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you read the Bible, it'll tell you, you know, they're two different places.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was like, man, we we're missing the boat on you know, teaching and discipleship.
• 1:11:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think it's kind of scary.
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, we need to be careful.
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_00: But the the you know, the word says that we need to be reading the word for ourselves.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's why we're supposed to test the scriptures, we're supposed to test the spirits, we're supposed to test people's fruit, even their fruit that they're producing, is it good fruit or is it you know fake fruit?
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, is that that bowl of fruit on the table, is that wax or is that is that the real you know deal?
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think it's important that we're doing that um, you know, for the sake of I don't know about you, I personally like to stand up for Jesus myself.
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, uh I I'm like you, I'm not perfect, I make mistakes.
• 1:12:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I I have had people say, well, you know, you think you're holier than thou.
• 1:12:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, I absolutely do not.
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's the least thing from my mind.
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_00: I never thought that.
• 1:12:17
  SPEAKER_00: I said, if anybody has a mess to clean up, I know it's me.
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, you know, if you want to come and look in my closet, you go right ahead.
• 1:12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because I ain't got nothing to hide, but I'm messy.
• 1:12:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can I got dirt under my rug just like you do.
• 1:12:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I'm not holier than thou.
• 1:12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Matter of fact, I need God just as much to today as I needed him the day I got saved, all the way to the day I die, I'm gonna need him.
• 1:12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:12:36
  SPEAKER_00: I said, you know, just because I talked to you about Jesus doesn't make me holy.
• 1:12:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I've had you know people really come at me and say stuff like that, and and I'm just like, we you know, maybe you should, you know, check yourself before you wreck yourself.
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I tell people.
• 1:12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Just like I have to do sometimes, you know.
• 1:12:55
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, the Bible says, you know, take that beam out of your eye, quit looking at the splinter in somebody else's.
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't you get on that?
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you were worried about what what you should be worried about, not everybody else, we wouldn't be in half the trouble we're in if we'd start doing that, you know.
• 1:13:09
  SPEAKER_02: I agree with you.
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_00: We really lax it easy.
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_02: And and we can't look at, even as you said, what we would call fruit, meaning the results we see of what people do.
• 1:13:20
  SPEAKER_02: And we can't take that and go, oh, that must be the gospel, because maybe you watch somebody perform a miracle, maybe you watch somebody pray and and you see people healed, maybe you see deliverance and you know, of spirits, and maybe you get to see the power of God, and yet Jesus spoke to the same people because he said, You in my name, like there's some magic by saying in the name of Jesus, and there's no magic.
• 1:13:52
  SPEAKER_02: You got to learn what that means, yeah, in as a position.
• 1:13:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's the most part important part of the sentence is in in the name of Jesus.
• 1:14:02
  SPEAKER_02: This name is Christ, the anointing.
• 1:14:05
  SPEAKER_02: In that place, he says, But in my name, you have performed miracles, you've cast out demons, you you know have done all these things, and then what does he say?
• 1:14:20
  SPEAKER_02: Depart from me, you wicked people, because you never knew me.
• 1:14:29
  SPEAKER_02: The gifts and calling of God are irrevocable.
• 1:14:32
  SPEAKER_02: He gives a gift, so someone has a gift of miracles or a gift of healing, or they can know the authority of God and cast a demon out.
• 1:14:41
  SPEAKER_02: Big deal, not enough.
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_02: He told them, depart from me.
• 1:14:46
  SPEAKER_02: Same words as in the great white throne judgment, depart from me, you wicked, because you never knew me.
• 1:14:55
  SPEAKER_02: That word no in the Greek and the Hebrew has the same depth of meaning as an intimate relationship between a man and a woman.
• 1:15:05
  SPEAKER_02: And he says, You were never intimate with me.
• 1:15:09
  SPEAKER_02: Just because you had a gift, the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
• 1:15:15
  SPEAKER_02: So if he gives a gift and you see a gift happening, big deal.
• 1:15:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, don't get your head wrapped around that, don't get your ego puffed up.
• 1:15:27
  SPEAKER_02: If God does, if God honors a miracle and a healing, he still, we better know him.
• 1:15:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and as and that leads back to where that man kept asking you, what's your relationship to Jesus?
• 1:15:40
  SPEAKER_02: Our relationship has to be knowing him.
• 1:15:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we're the bride.
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_02: Based on religion, huh?
• 1:15:46
  SPEAKER_00: We are the bride.
• 1:15:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:15:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and we he's waiting for us to get prepared and get get our hearts right and be ready.
• 1:15:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, when you go to get married, you you you put on your wedding gown and you, you know, you get ready for the ceremony.
• 1:15:58
  SPEAKER_00: You get ready for that, that, you know, that um that marriage.
• 1:16:04
  SPEAKER_00: And he's waiting for his bride.
• 1:16:06
  SPEAKER_00: And like, I mean, he's been waiting a long time because we are just terrible at getting ready, apparently.
• 1:16:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think poor Jesus is probably like, man, I know, I know, you know, time to him is not as it as it is with us, but still, I think, man, he probably up there shaking his head, like, y'all gotta get it together.
• 1:16:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I I I feel like, you know, we really don't understand, you know, and and again, I'm I'm glad that guy said that to me because I thought I had that relationship.
• 1:16:29
  SPEAKER_00: I thought I knew.
• 1:16:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I did have a relationship with Jesus.
• 1:16:32
  SPEAKER_00: I did believe in him.
• 1:16:33
  SPEAKER_00: I I fully believed in him.
• 1:16:35
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, I still would defend him even at that time, but I didn't ha know that I had to have a relationship with him.
• 1:16:41
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't realize I had to have that intimacy and that, you know, that love, that agape relationship, not just a not just a hey, come to church and hang out for a minute and you know, we could be friends, you know, hey pal, hey buddy, you know, kind of thing.
• 1:16:55
  SPEAKER_00: And um now that I've you know been, you know, I'm I'm so I'm so close to Jesus that people probably think I'm worried because I talk to him all the time.
• 1:17:03
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, and sometimes I'll forget other people who are in the room.
• 1:17:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I'm sorry, I'm just having a talk with God here, you know, you know, I'm like sorry, you know, I spoke out loud, but they're like, Who are you talking to?
• 1:17:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my God, you know, sorry, you know, but I I just you know I find myself doing that a lot, but I guess I'm getting older, they say that happens with age, but start talking to yourself, they think.
• 1:17:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I said, No, I'm talking to God because He's always listening, you know, that's who I talk to, and I feel comfortable with that.
• 1:17:26
  SPEAKER_00: People are just like, that's kind of wacky.
• 1:17:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm like, Well, I'm kind of never I've never been known to be a normal person, but I don't think there is no such thing as normal anyway.
• 1:17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:17:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't think anybody fits that mold except for Jesus.
• 1:17:38
  SPEAKER_00: He was the only one normal because he was perfect, and there's nobody gonna be that.
• 1:17:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I know the society, you know, we label we're labeled.
• 1:17:45
  SPEAKER_00: We're labeled of this and we're labeled that, and they we're we're put on a um a a a scale of what's supposedly normal opposed to anything else.
• 1:17:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I think they've missed the boat on that too.
• 1:17:55
  SPEAKER_00: But um, and I've dealt with, you know, I was a foster parent, I had 151 foster kids in my home.
• 1:18:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I could tell you, I've seen the spectrum go from clear to here to clear down to here, and um they were mislabeled half the time.
• 1:18:08
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of those kids were just put on medication and drugged, and I hated it.
• 1:18:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, I want them off the medication.
• 1:18:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'll work with them without them being medicated.
• 1:18:15
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, Are you serious?
• 1:18:16
  SPEAKER_00: You really want to deal with them?
• 1:18:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Yeah, I want to deal with them.
• 1:18:19
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to deal with the medication.
• 1:18:20
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
• 1:18:22
  SPEAKER_00: 90% of the kids that came in my home, I was able to get them off the medication.
• 1:18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, some of them do need it, but most of them didn't.
• 1:18:28
  SPEAKER_00: They were just it was just easy to hear, you're acting this way, here's a pill.
• 1:18:32
  SPEAKER_00: You act like that, here's a pill.
• 1:18:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, no, you know, let them be who they are.
• 1:18:36
  SPEAKER_00: So what?
• 1:18:37
  SPEAKER_00: They're a little bit hyper.
• 1:18:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I just think our society is missing, you know, so many things, but I also know that God is still in control and he already knows everything that's happening.
• 1:18:47
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes I just go, you know what, God, you can have it because it's all yours anyway, and it doesn't do me good to overthink it, because you know, we're not supposed to worry about today or tomorrow or any other day.
• 1:18:56
  SPEAKER_00: So just supposed to enjoy his glory and his mercy and and be thankful for his mercy.
• 1:19:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm thankful every day for his mercy because I need it every day, you know.
• 1:19:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what we're supposed to be walking in, you know, and I think that it's important that you know we talk about it, share it, and that's why I love this podcast because we can talk about these, how these conversations, and hopefully, you know, the person on the receiving end of this, you know, episode is gonna go, man, that's that's some pretty powerful stuff because because Jesus is pretty powerful.
• 1:19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 1:19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um just loves everybody so much, you know.
• 1:19:29
  SPEAKER_00: But we are we are rap, we need to start wrapping up, but I wanted to hear the rest of your story, so I'm probably gonna have to have you come back for part two.
• 1:19:36
  SPEAKER_02: We're part three and four and five.
• 1:19:38
  SPEAKER_02: There's so many parts, but I'll I'll be glad to talk about any parts you want.
• 1:19:41
  SPEAKER_02: There's yeah, that's great.
• 1:19:43
  SPEAKER_02: There's the healing of forgiveness and to my father, and the and how God dealt with that and with my guilt, and many stories about the power of God, many stories about uh coming through church leadership and church abuse and leadership abuse, and there's so many things that we can cover.
• 1:20:08
  SPEAKER_00: But uh glad to come back if you want me.
• 1:20:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would love to have you come back and um we could just go a few rounds.
• 1:20:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love it.
• 1:20:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think it'd be great.
• 1:20:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I enjoy speaking with you and getting to know you.
• 1:20:19
  SPEAKER_00: And um, like I said, I'm sorry about your mom and and um I I do like you said, I I I think you you nailed it when you said, you know, God allowed her to come and do what she needed to do, and then you took her home.
• 1:20:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I always think, you know, when God takes somebody home, he needs them more than we need them, but we don't always have to understand the whys behind it.
• 1:20:38
  unknown: Right.
• 1:20:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so we just have to know that whatever it is, it's for his glory and it's it's you know, it's for the for the good of you know what he does.
• 1:20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:20:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, God's not out to you know, people think God's out to hurt us, but he's really not.
• 1:20:52
  SPEAKER_02: Not at all.
• 1:20:52
  SPEAKER_02: He's not at all.
• 1:20:53
  SPEAKER_00: He's quite the opposite, you know.
• 1:20:55
  SPEAKER_02: He's the loving father, yeah.
• 1:20:56
  SPEAKER_02: His whole goal, he created us to walk with him in the intimate relationship in the garden, and he wants that, and that's our eternity.
• 1:21:07
  SPEAKER_02: We have that available to us if we want him.
• 1:21:11
  SPEAKER_02: But the real choice comes down to this that which we choose now is what we get for eternity.
• 1:21:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, if we choose to walk with the true and living God every minute of every day, not that we can do that, but you know, if that's a choice that we want that, as you say, you just have conversations through the day, and people think you're weird, who cares?
• 1:21:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know.
• 1:21:35
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the fact that we can have that intimate relationship with the true and living God, walking in his perfect love, his perfect peace, his joy, and that's worth everything.
• 1:21:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's where what we choose now we get for eternity.
• 1:21:57
  SPEAKER_02: Now we have to walk through hell and back.
• 1:21:59
  SPEAKER_02: Don't fool yourself.
• 1:22:01
  SPEAKER_02: Walking with God is not, just for anyone listening, puppy dogs, rainbows, you know, if once I come to God, he's he's gonna heal everything and everything's wonderful and it's all gonna be no, it's not on purpose.
• 1:22:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's not.
• 1:22:15
  SPEAKER_02: On purpose, he let the serpent deceive Eve and then Adam.
• 1:22:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:22:21
  SPEAKER_02: On purpose.
• 1:22:23
  SPEAKER_02: Because we can't, if we had the silver spoon, if we had everything handed to us, we would not choose that intimate relationship.
• 1:22:32
  SPEAKER_02: It we would take it all for granted, yeah.
• 1:22:36
  SPEAKER_02: And God's making us the giving us the opportunity for our years on this planet.
• 1:22:42
  SPEAKER_02: Will we walk with him through hell and high water?
• 1:22:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, okay.
• 1:22:47
  SPEAKER_02: We all, everyone out there has trauma, self-esteem issues, anxiety, depression, different things that have tacked people all through their lives.
• 1:22:59
  SPEAKER_02: Now, about now, not saying everyone's in that all the time, but we all have these terrible things.
• 1:23:04
  SPEAKER_02: We have terrible things that have happened.
• 1:23:05
  SPEAKER_02: Some people probably worse traumas than mine, you know, when I think of abuses.
• 1:23:11
  SPEAKER_02: All of that, though, in the midst of that, will we call out on the true and living God?
• 1:23:18
  SPEAKER_02: Will we come to that intimate relationship?
• 1:23:21
  SPEAKER_02: And even if we do walk with him and we have a gift and we use it, and you just get caught up in the gift and you forget knowing him, that intimate relationship.
• 1:23:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's not good enough that it was God.
• 1:23:34
  SPEAKER_02: I went out and I healed the sick and I cast out demons and I raised people from the dead, and he'll go, depart from me.
• 1:23:42
  SPEAKER_02: I never knew you.
• 1:23:43
  SPEAKER_02: The knowing is the so what the knowing is the key, yeah, that depth.
• 1:23:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so, in the midst of our hundred-year testing ground, plus or minus, this is what it is walking through the difficulties of life and walking, choosing if we want to walk with him.
• 1:24:06
  SPEAKER_02: And if we do, we can have, as I'll repeat again, Philippians 4 7, the peace of God that passes all understanding, all comprehension given to you in Christ.
• 1:24:22
  SPEAKER_02: The peace is not the same as a peace.
• 1:24:27
  SPEAKER_02: A peace is when your spouse and you don't have uh any troubles going on, or the kids are quiet for the for the day or the moment, using a day, or you know, no problems at work, or you just ate a Thanksgiving meal, you can have a peace, and the devil, the ruler of this earth, can give a peace in everything.
• 1:24:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but he cannot give the peace, the peace that passes understanding, a peace that's so deep, you're uh no understanding and comprehension.
• 1:25:02
  SPEAKER_02: And when you can walk in the peace through the midst of the traumas and hardships of everything of life, that's worth its weight in gold.
• 1:25:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:25:17
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 1:25:18
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 1:25:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's um so important that we understand it, especially when I think about that part, you know, department department for me because you never knew me.
• 1:25:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and we want to we want to take the credit for oh, but I I I cast out a demon or I I healed somebody in your name.
• 1:25:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not our credit to have anyway.
• 1:25:40
  SPEAKER_00: We're not supposed to take the credit, you know, we're just supposed to do it because it's it's an act of service and obedience to God.
• 1:25:46
  SPEAKER_00: But it's not anything we're supposed to pat, you know, like we said, the pat on the back.
• 1:25:49
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, we need to humble ourselves and um give all that glory to God.
• 1:25:55
  SPEAKER_00: And there there's times, there are there are times when, you know, um I've witnessed healings and I've witnessed, you know, laying hands on people and and seeing, you know, the miraculous work of God.
• 1:26:07
  SPEAKER_00: But I didn't run out of the room going, oh, but God, I did this for you.
• 1:26:10
  SPEAKER_00: I did this for you, because God would probably knock me right down.
• 1:26:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you do and knock it off?
• 1:26:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I just I don't know, I think a little bit differently than some people because I I think of it as being so ridiculous, you know, and God just probably thinks, gosh, you know, I can, you know, I try to think what God would think sometimes.
• 1:26:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, man, he probably just thinks we're just knuckleheads, you know, at times.
• 1:26:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure we are knuckleheads at times, I know I am, but um I'm thankful he understands us and he knows that.
• 1:26:36
  SPEAKER_00: But I, you know, I also do think that he has a lot of mercy for us.
• 1:26:38
  SPEAKER_00: And like I tell, you know, when I used to teach Sunday school, and I've told this to grown adults actually, I said the things that we're we're gonna stand before God for are gonna be the things we we didn't repent for and that we truly did not repent for.
• 1:26:51
  SPEAKER_00: But because I like you said, some people they use um salvation as um a free, a get out a free card.
• 1:27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like I can do this, I can do this.
• 1:27:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, oh, you better be careful, you better not be doing that.
• 1:27:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, and yeah, if you make a mistake and you do something again and again and you're working on that sin, like Paul, he said, you know, that thorn in his side, he couldn't get rid of it, and God didn't take it away either.
• 1:27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:27:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you know, there are some times that you're gonna have stuff that you have to deal with, and God knows what that is.
• 1:27:19
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're literally going to the bank and literally doing it on purpose because you think it's a get out of free card, then you're in a lot of trouble.
• 1:27:26
  SPEAKER_00: And you will answer to God for every bit of that if you don't repent for it.
• 1:27:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I tell people, you gotta make sure that whiteboard is clear every day, clear it.
• 1:27:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I told my Sunday school kids, you know, hey, you know, I say, let's write your sin that you did just today.
• 1:27:40
  SPEAKER_00: Talked back to mom and dad, didn't put your shoes on, didn't clean your room, just little things, you know.
• 1:27:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I go, those are simple little sins.
• 1:27:46
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's pray about them, ask God to forgive you.
• 1:27:47
  SPEAKER_00: We forgive them.
• 1:27:48
  SPEAKER_00: They turn around, they wait, they lift up their heads, and I the whiteboard's clear because I wiped it off.
• 1:27:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, That's what God does with our sin, but only if we ask him, only if we ask him.
• 1:27:57
  SPEAKER_00: But we now when we go home, now we've got to try to be.
• 1:28:00
  SPEAKER_00: Better.
• 1:28:00
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't mean we get to do it again, you know?
• 1:28:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, and yeah, we're gonna mess up, but I think the ones that are like, oh, well, if he's gonna forgive me, I can do this all the time.
• 1:28:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we we can't be looking at it like that.
• 1:28:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I know some people can't treat him once again.
• 1:28:15
  SPEAKER_02: People want to treat him uh as the genie in the bottle, and they want to say, okay, um, there's people who go, once saved, always saved, and then there's people say you have to work out your salvation every day.
• 1:28:29
  SPEAKER_02: Guess what?
• 1:28:30
  SPEAKER_02: The scriptures back both.
• 1:28:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, they do back both.
• 1:28:34
  SPEAKER_02: They do.
• 1:28:34
  SPEAKER_02: Because you know what it is?
• 1:28:36
  SPEAKER_02: Once saved is when you ask the Lord to come into your life, he seals our innermost being, our spirit, with his fullness of the Godhead.
• 1:28:46
  SPEAKER_02: Did you know?
• 1:28:47
  SPEAKER_02: Do I know?
• 1:28:48
  SPEAKER_02: We have the fullness of the Godhead inside of us, who the one who spoke the world into being that holds it together by the word of his mouth.
• 1:28:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna tell you, none of us know that.
• 1:28:58
  SPEAKER_02: None of us know that we've tasted it.
• 1:29:01
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes when the rivers get to flow, we can sense the beauty of that.
• 1:29:06
  SPEAKER_02: We none of us know the level of that, none on this earth.
• 1:29:10
  SPEAKER_02: So saved, yes.
• 1:29:12
  SPEAKER_02: And it says, those who he justified, saved, he also will glorify.
• 1:29:16
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, good.
• 1:29:18
  SPEAKER_02: What's in the middle?
• 1:29:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because glorification is in the end.
• 1:29:22
  SPEAKER_02: In the middle is called sanctification.
• 1:29:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's where you work out your salvation with fear and trembling.
• 1:29:30
  SPEAKER_02: Because that is the choice in life, whether we're gonna walk with the true and living God or not.
• 1:29:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because what we choose now is what we get for eternity.
• 1:29:39
  SPEAKER_02: And you go, well, Tom, but I'm saved, so I get to go to heaven.
• 1:29:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you study the scriptures enough, it'll be in one of my future books, of the difference between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven, because you're gonna find out that uh the gimme that we think we've been told isn't so gimme.
• 1:29:59
  SPEAKER_02: And you to get to stay in the presence of God is has to do with this whole sanctification from the day of your birth in the Lord until you physically die, and that window is what he's going to judge.
• 1:30:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then we could do all the miracles and power of God and then live like the sinner, and God will say, I never knew you, depart from me.
• 1:30:23
  SPEAKER_02: I don't care that you did things for me.
• 1:30:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's you know, if we understand it's the Spirit of God who worked in you to do those things, works through me, our ego, if we really understood it, would go away.
• 1:30:37
  SPEAKER_02: We go, well, maybe we were just good enough servants that it's like okay.
• 1:30:41
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's not.
• 1:30:41
  SPEAKER_02: We weren't good enough servants.
• 1:30:43
  SPEAKER_02: The gifts and calling of God are irrevocable.
• 1:30:46
  SPEAKER_02: So he gives them and people can misuse them.
• 1:30:49
  SPEAKER_02: So it's the intimate walk with the true and living God, and that is what needs to be.
• 1:30:56
  SPEAKER_02: So when we repent, it's just to say, like, I don't believe people should get under, you know, there's therefore now no condemnation, you know, Romans 8 for those who are in Christ.
• 1:31:09
  SPEAKER_02: We're not to live under condemnation, but it's not a Paul says that's not a license to sin.
• 1:31:16
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 1:31:17
  SPEAKER_02: And we're to walk with the Lord.
• 1:31:19
  SPEAKER_02: And when I screw up, I go, sorry, Papa, I screwed up again.
• 1:31:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he goes, Okay, I forgive you.
• 1:31:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I go, and and then I don't believe we are to make false promises.
• 1:31:32
  SPEAKER_02: God, I know this was only the 10,000th time, and I'll never do it again.
• 1:31:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's just the enemy lying in our ear, going, You need to say that, because God can't do it 10,000 and one.
• 1:31:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's you've you've been pushing your luck.
• 1:31:46
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'm sorry.
• 1:31:49
  SPEAKER_02: He forgives, throws it as far as the east from the west.
• 1:31:53
  SPEAKER_02: We don't, but it's the walk.
• 1:31:56
  SPEAKER_02: You don't make a false promise to God, you just go, I screwed up and helper, Holy Spirit, help me to try to change inside of me so I don't keep doing all the same screw-ups, but it's walk.
• 1:32:11
  SPEAKER_02: If we could just see the simplicity and the beauty is just walking with him.
• 1:32:19
  SPEAKER_02: And if the whole body of Christ was doing that, then they could come together and maybe put a bride's dress on.
• 1:32:24
  SPEAKER_02: Right now we're so split apart the dress wouldn't fit.
• 1:32:29
  SPEAKER_00: We need to go on today.
• 1:32:30
  SPEAKER_00: I also like what it says in Revelations when it talks about, I think it's Revelations 3, if I'm not mistaken, but it says, um, be hot or cold, but don't be lukewarm or I'll spo you out of my mouth.
• 1:32:39
  SPEAKER_00: And and I I like that scripture.
• 1:32:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a constant reminder for me.
• 1:32:44
  SPEAKER_00: It helps me on a personal level to go, you know what, I don't want to be, you know, lukewarm.
• 1:32:49
  SPEAKER_00: I want to be either on it or not.
• 1:32:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if I need help in it, I'm gonna go to God and get help.
• 1:32:53
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm gonna not do it anymore, I'm not gonna do it anymore.
• 1:32:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm gonna try to be really obedient in that area.
• 1:32:58
  SPEAKER_00: And um, it's really helped me to to stay out of that that lukewarm area because that's the last thing I want is God to spit me out of his mouth, you know.
• 1:33:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, you know, it's a metaphor, but it's like it's crazy when you think about it because you don't want to be that person that's gonna be the disappointment, you know, and and kind of like when you don't want to disappoint your parents, like you would sit at the table and you wanted to please your father.
• 1:33:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is our heavenly father.
• 1:33:24
  SPEAKER_00: How much more is he to us, even than our own parents, you know?
• 1:33:27
  SPEAKER_00: How much more does, you know, that should we glorify him?
• 1:33:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I think about that because he's our all almighty father.
• 1:33:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I also like the fact, you know, of course, like I said, I was raised in foster homes and what have you.
• 1:33:38
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I was adopted.
• 1:33:40
  SPEAKER_00: He adopted me in the kingdom, and you know, I knew that it was the ultimate love that I would, you know, always longed for and wanted, and and he gave it to me.
• 1:33:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't deserve it.
• 1:33:48
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't, you know, I was a little tyrant and a little hoodlum rat, and you know, I, you know, had a really bad mouth and still still swear once in a while.
• 1:33:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I'm not gonna lie, you know, I and I'm like, oh gosh, I gotta don't say that.
• 1:33:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's crazy, but um, you know, I I'm working on stuff and I know I'll work on stuff until the very end.
• 1:34:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why it's it's interesting when you know we gotta be careful we're not supposed to slip up around people because they then they look at you like, oh, you're not a Christian if you did that.
• 1:34:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, actually I am, but I'm not a perfect Christian because God said I'm never gonna be perfect.
• 1:34:18
  SPEAKER_00: If I was Jesus, then you can call me a perfect Christian, you know.
• 1:34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Until then, you know, but no, I mean, you know, but I'll be having a talk with him later because now I have to go repent because I really, you know, I made a mistake, but I you know, I there's no perfection.
• 1:34:31
  SPEAKER_02: I I I don't mind letting people know that I have ugly.
• 1:34:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like I don't hide it.
• 1:34:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:34:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm not, you know, we're not it's not a facade you have to put on for church.
• 1:34:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's not the fake face, the Sunday smile.
• 1:34:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, there's my second book really gets into the whole false belief systems, uh religious Stockholm syndrome that happens in the churches, Egypt in the church, because we have been taught to put on these facades, and therefore we can't be real with one another because we're afraid of the judgment that comes, because those who are under the Stockholm syndrome are there judging because they were raised that way by their pastors' leaders and other Stockholm inductees, and they all have to live the facade, and so you we walk in and we want to be real, and we want to go, you know, I have a tough time in my life, and I screw up here, or you know, I have these temptations or I have these problems.
• 1:35:38
  SPEAKER_02: And when someone's getting saved, the church reaches out and goes, Oh, no problem, you'll be forgiven.
• 1:35:44
  SPEAKER_02: But if a Christian's been a Christian for a while and you walk in and you tell that, that's where the army wants to uh shoot their wounded.
• 1:35:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's where the church as a hospital judges you for coming in sick because we're living in such a facade.
• 1:36:00
  SPEAKER_02: And the real truth, you know, Jesus walked.
• 1:36:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's funny, he didn't have a lot of good things to say about the Pharisees and Sadducees, kind of like brood of vipers, wicked, horrible, the worst.
• 1:36:15
  SPEAKER_02: And those same Pharisees muttered at him because he ate with the tax collectors and the harlots.
• 1:36:22
  SPEAKER_02: He'd sit at table them, and they're like going, well, maybe doesn't he know who they are?
• 1:36:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like, he if he's supposed to be this great leader, why isn't he in the temple and and where we are?
• 1:36:34
  SPEAKER_02: Because we're the religious.
• 1:36:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:36:37
  SPEAKER_02: And Jesus ate with the tax collector and the harlot because he doesn't, as he said, he doesn't go to where people don't think they need him.
• 1:36:47
  SPEAKER_02: He goes to people like he goes to to where people know who they are, and if they listen, many of those tax collectors and harlots came to know him.
• 1:37:00
  SPEAKER_02: So we're so screwed up as a church, the church, but in churches, judging, judging one another, and it's time to set the divisions aside, the judgment aside.
• 1:37:15
  SPEAKER_02: If we were all walking with the true and living God, with the peace of Christ ruling in our hearts, studying his word so we have something to compare to, and then we walk with the peace, we would have a single body of Christ.
• 1:37:30
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:37:31
  SPEAKER_02: But until we get there, right now we have some who do walk in the middle of any building, and we have those who don't.
• 1:37:39
  SPEAKER_02: And the prayer would be that uh those who can hear would hear that that call from the Lord.
• 1:37:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:37:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I do I think that there are people that um are not walking in their calling, but um you know, because you know, there's a lot of deception out there.
• 1:38:01
  SPEAKER_00: People are deceiving.
• 1:38:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um they can do that, you know, um you know, just like Jesus or God sent one third of all the angels with Lucifer, so there's a lot of deception in the world.
• 1:38:13
  SPEAKER_00: But we have to be careful.
• 1:38:14
  SPEAKER_00: It says to be prepared in and out of season, you know, we have to have our eyes open.
• 1:38:18
  SPEAKER_00: And um and how do we do that?
• 1:38:19
  SPEAKER_00: We stay in the word.
• 1:38:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if we're in the word, we'll see it.
• 1:38:22
  SPEAKER_00: If we're not in the word, we don't recognize it.
• 1:38:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if the devil devil's sitting, like you said we earlier, if the devil sit beside you, you won't even know it unless you're in the word.
• 1:38:29
  SPEAKER_00: You you know, that that doesn't mean that you know you're gonna, you know, like start bashing somebody, but you're gonna be aware of it, you're gonna know who to hang out with and who not to hang out with, you know.
• 1:38:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um you can't.
• 1:38:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so we do have to know the word people.
• 1:38:44
  SPEAKER_02: We do have to know the word, absolutely.
• 1:38:46
  SPEAKER_02: And here's the thing though, we have to recognize the devil knows the word better than us.
• 1:38:51
  SPEAKER_02: Does he've been around since the beginning, he's really good at it.
• 1:38:55
  SPEAKER_02: He doesn't know all the word of God, yeah.
• 1:38:59
  SPEAKER_02: Guess what?
• 1:38:59
  SPEAKER_02: He'll use that against us, so that's why we have to have the peace of Christ to counterbalance it, because knowing the word, if we don't know the word, well, then he could just deceive us all day long, right?
• 1:39:11
  SPEAKER_02: Because, you know, but if we have the peace that he can't give, then that can confirm his word to us.
• 1:39:21
  SPEAKER_02: Remember when Jesus fasted 40 days, and I know we need to conclude.
• 1:39:25
  SPEAKER_02: When Jesus fasted 40 days, and he stood him on the pinnacle of the tower, and he says, If you cast yourself off, he's quoting Psalm 91, if you cast yourself off, the angels will catch you on that fall and keep you from you know falling.
• 1:39:47
  SPEAKER_02: He told the truth minus one little bit.
• 1:39:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like he actually like takes 99% truth and just throws 1% error.
• 1:39:59
  SPEAKER_02: Jesus caught it after fasting 40 days.
• 1:40:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think after fasting 40 days, I'd be good to be alert in any sense.
• 1:40:07
  SPEAKER_02: So never fasted that long.
• 1:40:09
  SPEAKER_02: So Jesus caught it because Jesus said, You don't tempt the Lord your God.
• 1:40:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what does Psalm 91 say?
• 1:40:19
  SPEAKER_02: It says, if you fall, not if you cast yourself off.
• 1:40:23
  SPEAKER_02: Satan says, if you cast yourself off.
• 1:40:26
  SPEAKER_02: No, Psalm 91 says, if you fall.
• 1:40:30
  SPEAKER_02: The devil will lie, and we can't just take the word.
• 1:40:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's why deception happens in all these denominations, religions, false belief systems.
• 1:40:40
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I'm really with you on all that.
• 1:40:42
  SPEAKER_02: And the second book talks all about that.
• 1:40:45
  SPEAKER_02: The third book talks about the false spirituality.
• 1:40:47
  SPEAKER_02: I encourage people to read them.
• 1:40:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not here to sell books.
• 1:40:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like Paul, I'm a tent maker.
• 1:40:53
  SPEAKER_02: I have my own businesses on the side.
• 1:40:56
  SPEAKER_02: I wrote books because the Lord told me to.
• 1:40:58
  SPEAKER_02: And my goal is to help people.
• 1:41:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's not the 99 cents I can make off of Amazon.
• 1:41:04
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I make a couple bucks.
• 1:41:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, it's not to sell books, but it's what God's done in me in 56 years that I feel He wants brought to the body of Christ to equip the body.
• 1:41:18
  SPEAKER_02: And that's my goal when I'm out here selling books.
• 1:41:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not selling them to get rich.
• 1:41:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm selling, I want to share that equipping.
• 1:41:27
  SPEAKER_02: And if it can have any value, please go get my books.
• 1:41:31
  SPEAKER_02: I don't care about the couple dollars I make.
• 1:41:33
  SPEAKER_02: I really don't.
• 1:41:34
  SPEAKER_00: So, with that note, as we're wrapping up here, can you tell them uh where that is?
• 1:41:38
  SPEAKER_00: Is it just on Amazon or yeah, I know you have a website.
• 1:41:41
  SPEAKER_00: You want to tell them about your website?
• 1:41:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:41:43
  SPEAKER_02: So the website is just to beclear.com, and it's the number two.
• 1:41:48
  SPEAKER_02: So just number two be clear.com for the just to be clear teaching series.
• 1:41:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you can see all three books that are published out there and 10 more that are lined up to eventually someday maybe come to fruition when Papa God says.
• 1:42:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then you can find them on Amazon without there's clip, there's links right off of the website to click on to Amazon.
• 1:42:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'll also give you things for your show notes if you want to put put you know with the show.
• 1:42:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um but links to Amazon and yeah, they're in the other major uh you know links online, and uh you can all the major retailers online you can find them.
• 1:42:33
  SPEAKER_02: But I usually just give the Amazon links if people want to find it on Apple or Barnes and Noble, but you can.
• 1:42:41
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 1:42:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you for that.
• 1:42:42
  SPEAKER_00: And again, thank you for the conversation.
• 1:42:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's been wonderful and I've enjoyed it very much.
• 1:42:48
  SPEAKER_00: And um I we do need to wrap up, but um again, I would love to have you come back and we could talk some more and maybe a few more times, and I I want to get the rest of your, you know, you could tell the rest of your story um and finish up with that.
• 1:43:02
  SPEAKER_00: But um I like I said, I could talk about Jesus all day long.
• 1:43:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think it's wonderful to to be able to share um Jesus with everyone, you know.
• 1:43:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's a big part of what Crush a Stronghold is about.
• 1:43:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so um I thank you for for being here and participating with this conversation and you're great to talk to.
• 1:43:22
  SPEAKER_00: And um I'm going to tell our listeners that um go to the website, check out the books, um and then the ten that you're working on are coming maybe soon.
• 1:43:34
  SPEAKER_00: I was reading about that.
• 1:43:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but um the the three that are out there, the the trilogy, um, look like great books.
• 1:43:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um definitely want to get wanna get on there and uh grab a couple and start reading them.
• 1:43:45
  SPEAKER_00: And also if you are struggling with some strongholds in your life, um anxiety, depression, um abuse, trauma, abandonment, rejection, self-identity, any of that, you can also reach out to me to crushing strongholds, and I'll be glad to have a talk with you.
• 1:44:00
  SPEAKER_00: And um, if you need prayer for anything, I have um a place on my website where you can reach out and I will pray with you.
• 1:44:06
  SPEAKER_00: And if you need any um information, just you can find me at crushingstrongholds.com.
• 1:44:11
  SPEAKER_00: So that's where I'm at.
• 1:44:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um for those that already follow me, they already know that.
• 1:44:15
  SPEAKER_00: But for those that don't, there's the information for you.
• 1:44:17
  SPEAKER_00: And we just want to say thank you very much for listening and um we're thankful.
• 1:44:21
  SPEAKER_00: We hope that you stuck stayed with us to the very end because it was great and wonderful.
• 1:44:25
  SPEAKER_00: And again, Tom, just want to say thank you again for coming on the show.
• 1:44:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a pleasure having you.
• 1:44:30
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having me.
• 1:44:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:44:32
  SPEAKER_00: All right, everyone, you all take care, and we'll be talking to you again soon.
• 1:44:35
  SPEAKER_00: God bless you.