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Reimagine Running | Race(s) Recap with Tim Cottrell S1E35 · Reimagine Running

• Tim: you just try to do the best you can on the day that you've got and you hope for the best and some days it's your days and some days it's not. mean, I don't know of any runner who runs a PR every single race. That would be awesome. But that's not the reality of running most Even if you watch Elites, obviously they don't ever do that either. like the feelings like frustrated a little bit that I've put in all this work for these two races and neither race went how I wanted it to go. Am I sad or whatever about it? No, because And if it's your day, it is. And if it's your, if it's not your day, it's not, you just go do the best you can. And you just try to enjoy the whole experience. And, Coach Ryan Head: Running is a strange thing. Some people find it on the sidewalk at sunrise. Some find it deep in the mountains chasing daylight. And some of us find it when life feels heavy and running is the only thing that makes sense. For some, starts with the 5k. For others, it's a marathon. And for a few, it's a hundred miles that changes everything. But somewhere between the first step and the finish line, something happens. Running stops being about pace or distance or medals. It becomes about purpose. I'm your host Ryan Head. And this is Reimagine Running, the podcast dedicated to talking about why we run. Each episode, we'll sit down with runners from every background, trail runners, road runners, beginners, veterans, and talk about their journey. Not just where they've run, but why they run. Because for many of us, running didn't just change our fitness. It helped us find clarity, healing, discipline, hope, and sometimes even ourselves. Whether your why was born on a short loop around the block or somewhere deep inside a long, lonely mile. This podcast is for you. Welcome to re-imagine running. Ryan Head: Alright, everybody, welcome back to Reimagine Running, the podcast talking about why we run. I'm excited. You know, I told myself we were gonna take a break on the season. I don't know when it's coming. We'll just keep plugging along until I don't know, I decide it's just time to take a few weeks off or something. Well no, we'll figure it out. but we're gonna keep plugging along. This will be episode 35 Tim: Okay. Ryan Head: for season one. Very exciting. who knew we'd get this far in season one? I didn't. I thought I would have ended it many episodes ago, but it's been awesome because there's just been great content, great people have come on, and we have some other great, guests coming up here in the near future. So I'm excited. We'll keep chugging along. But I'm excited for this episode, mostly because we are bringing back a former guest and a former co-host Tim Cotterall. Tim: Okay. Ryan Head: As you guys know, he is wonderful. He's a fantastic runner. I want to bring him on because, as most of you know, and as so many of you have been so kind, I did the double this year of the Wasatchin Bear. Well, Tim did the double on the road running side. He did Big Cottonwood Canyon Marathon Tim: Thank Ryan Head: as well as St. George Marathon here over the past couple of weeks. So very impressive stuff. I wanted to bring him on because It's been cool to follow his journey this summer, see the hard work he put in, you know, after he got done with Ogden Marathon. You know what? I'm not gonna spoil it. I don't wanna say any more. I'm gonna let him be the one tells ya. But it's been cool to follow his journey this summer, and heading into you know the fall, all the work he put in and what he was able to accomplish. you know, he accomplished some great stuff, some amazing stuff that isn't easily done without really being dedicated. So I again just excited to bring him on and let's go twenty six point two miles on two different road races. So, Tim, welcome back to the pod, dude. Tim: Thanks. It's good to be back again. Always enjoy spending time talking, running with you and reminiscing about things that have occurred in the last little bit. Ryan Head: dude, it's so fun to hear people, even on my trail races, like the amount of people that will be like, man, Tim's doing this race or t like it's been fun to see his journey. doesn't matter whether it's road or trails, dude, everyone knows ya and you're just an awesome part to this community. you know, I I mean this, it's just really you're a kind person and you care about everybody and you you want the best for everybody and you're constantly like one of the best cheerleaders for everybody. It's cool because I love that about you because You know, you'd think someone as fast as you are and you know wouldn't really give a crap maybe about everybody else, but you definitely do and it and it shows because of your action. So it's so cool and dude, you're just so well respected and loved in the community. so I think this will definitely be a a hit for sure. Tim: I appreciate the kind words Ryan Head: so Before we jump into it, dude, as always, love to give a big plug for our premier sponsor, Fleet Feet for the podcast. If you have any shoe needs, gear needs, nutrition needs, hydration, electrolyte needs, go over, see those guys, they'll get you taken care of. You know, as we're heading into the fall and winter, it's gonna get cold. they've got some great winter gear for people. So make sure you get over there, see Jamie and the team, they'll get you taken care of. So again, they're both located in Ogden and Leighton. ask for Jamie specifically and should. Be taken care of. So, anyways, cool, dude. Well, I just want to start with let's Tim: Thank Ryan Head: let's rewind the clocks back to Ogden Marathon, right? That was your last race before heading into what would be your summer training block and and then your fall races, right? So take us back there. What happened Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: after you finished Ogden and what was going through your head? Tim: Yeah, so really fast. I don't know if I touched on this or not, but really fast leading up to Ogden. ended up getting injured. I tore part of my plantar fascia. I was able to start running again about six weeks for the races also. I just kind of ran that one just to see. ran a 316.05 or something. can't remember exactly what my time was, but something like that. So it wasn't my fastest marathon of all time. Wasn't my slowest either, but it was just one that I just did just to do. just see what happens type of a thing. Through the summer, I was able to stay healthy, luckily. I was worried after that injury that I had leading up to August and that maybe I'd get hurt again, but I was lucky enough to dodge the injury bug this summer and fall. I normally do 12 week training blocks. I just think for me mentally, that's kind of about all I can. I mean, I could do more, but I just get burned out after about 12 weeks of training. So, but this, this, summer and fall, I decided to do a 14 week block instead of a 12 week block, which is kind of a weird number, but I think it was the amount of time I had between Ogden and, and big cottonwood to get ready. I just thought my fitness obviously, probably wasn't where I wanted it to be. After Ogden marathon, just because of the injury that I dealt with. so, I started my training block early and I'm glad that I did. think it did help me, in the long run, but, there's just not something that I typically do. I started pretty conservatively for, what I usually do. think I started training my marathon block and I think that's 52, 54 miles a week. just slowly build up from there. did have one little minor injury scare that lasted a couple of days where I took a few days off. had a, I it was just like an achy hip for whatever reason. So I moved my recovery week to that week just because it was not acting quite normal. But after that week, I was able to get back to it. I crawled up to 70 mile weeks, 80 mile weeks. The month of August actually ran more miles than I ever had in a month. think I finished at 335 Ryan Head: Heck yeah. Tim: miles for the month of August or something like that. And I was, I was doing over 90, I think got up to 96 miles a week in the month of August, just to kind of get ready for my fall marathon. had a huge marathon goal that I wanted to hit. I wanted to try to run a 245. marathon this fall. So was trying to do everything I could to get there. I was doing basically, I was doing at least two speed workouts a week, I do some sort of a, like a tempo type run where I do 60, Ryan Head: Okay. Tim: 70, 80 minutes at a controlled effort or whatever effort that I want to do. And then I was doing VO2 max workouts every week as well. Just try to improve my VO2 max for my training block. And it worked. my VO two max reached the highest that it has ever been. got up to 66, which is a pretty good number, at least for me, I was happy with it. Ryan Head: Wow. Yeah. Tim: and then, so I was a super fit. I'd never been fit that fit before leading into a marathon, race that I had. I was very disciplined. I wasn't perfect, but I was very disciplined on my eating habits. but, Ryan Head: Love it. Tim: That's something I really paid attention to. was very diligent at going to the gym. was going five days a week until probably the middle of August and then just running 95 miles a week and trying to go to the gym five days a week just felt like it was too much for me. So Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Tim: I went down to two days a week. I was doing an upper body day basically and a lower body day just to kind of check all the boxes type of a thing. So that was kind of my routine every week. I'd do a couple days a week I'd run twice a week just to kind of or excuse me twice a day just to kind of get some extra miles in there's a couple weeks where I do three times a week just to Make sure my mileage was or three times. It's gonna be twice a day three times a week to Make Ryan Head: Heck yeah. Tim: sure I got the mileage where I wanted to get up to so Long runs were 20 plus miles per week For a long run, I've been a lot of long runs, just a lot of miles in general. To make sure I was ready to run a 245 marathon at Big Cottonwood in St. George. I did a two week taper. I some people probably do a three week taper. Some do a two week taper. I don't know if there's a right or wrong way. It's probably just more individually on what works best for you. Generally I do a two week. training block. One thing to my last long run, always do it just kind of a simulated race just to kind of see where I think my fitness is at going into a race. can kind of get an idea of what my race will look like. So we've done a few me and Megan and for those who remember Megan, she's been on the podcast, but Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Tim: We had done several runs down big common Canyon, just get ready. She was doing that race as well. But, so my last long run, I did a four mile warmup and then 16 miles that marathon pace. But it was just like one those perfect days, right? Or everything clicked Ryan Head: Yeah. Tim: and. You felt like Superman. I rarely have those types of runs, but it always seems to happen on my last long run of my training blocks for whatever reason. But I was able to run. just really well. ran my fastest 5k time that I've ever ran. Granted, it was downhill, but I think it was like a, I can't remember, 1736, 5k or something, or excuse me. Yeah. And then like a, around a 37 minute, 10k and a one hour and 20 minute half marathon on my last long run hours to 609 pace on that last long run. I felt super ready for, I thought I'd done all the training that I had needed to run a 245 marathon at the Big Continent Canyon. So I done the work I had felt and I felt ready going into Big Continent that we're ready to go hit that goal and see what happens. Ryan Head: That's awesome. Tim: So that's kind what my summer looked like. Just lots and lots of running. Tried to rest as much as could. Tried to eat as healthy as I could. Tried to eat also as much as I could healthily. Just try to do Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Tim: strength train, do all that stuff to just kind of get ready and see what happened on race day. So that was kind of my build up, leading to, to my marathon season here this last couple of So. Ryan Head: Yeah, that's awesome dude. Well, I I gotta there's a bunch of questions I wanna throw at you based off of Tim: Ha ha. Ryan Head: what you said, because there's a lot of really good stuff that I think you you experienced and that you went through. The first question I would say is, you know, and it ca i I know it's been a little bit of time, so I think hopefully you remember a little bit from it, but How did you how did you work through the planter fascia stuff and how did you get that healed up? Because that is a common injury, I think, right? And again, what he's about to say, people, anybody who's listening, he's not a doctor, he's not Tim: You Ryan Head: telling you that this is the way to do it. It's just this is what worked for him to get back to running. So please, I don't wanna me or Tim don't wanna get sued. Please do not come after us for doctor's advice. This is just what what he did. But yeah, how did you how did you come back from that? Because I remember that did KO you. And and obviously Ogden was a little bit slower than you had hoped per se, Tim: Mm-hmm. Ryan Head: but it was cool to see how fast you bounced back and then as you said, as you explained through the summer, what you were accomplishing. So yeah, how what did you do to get Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: to recover from that? Tim: So I did go see a doctor first because it happened at the winter race in series 10 K. I was running that race and got a super sharp pain in my foot about mile four, but being in a typical runner, I'm just going to run through it and finish the race type of a thing. So I finished my race. but like that day and the next day I couldn't really walk on it. it was super painful. was basically, yeah, not able to walk on it. So I called Monday, went and saw a podiatrist. I thought I broke a bone to be completely honest with you in my foot, just because I couldn't put any weight on it. they did some x-rays, there wasn't any broken bones. So after, you know, feeling around my foot a little bit and showing them where it was sore and kind of the symptoms that I had, we didn't do an MRI just because we didn't think we needed one at that time. But, they felt like I had tore part of my plantar fascia. They put me in a boot, so I was immobilized for three weeks, I think it was. And then again, being. Ryan Head: It's equivalent of a dog it's the equivalent of a dog getting a cone on him. Tim: That's a good analogy. And then I went back to the doctor and being the typical runner like so how long is it till I can start running again? And Ryan Head: Yeah, it's awesome. Tim: he's like, well, we can take the boot off, but I wait at least another week before I start trying to run on it again, just to kind of get a little bit stronger after being in a boot for three weeks, you know, walk around on it. But Yeah, don't do anything stupid. He did let me use the elliptical actually, which I was grateful for. so I did use that, every day. And I think I started like 30 minutes to see how my foot was feeling. It ended up getting up to an hour because that was all I could Ryan Head: Yeah. Tim: tolerate on an elliptical about wanting to. Ryan Head: Gouge your eyes out. Tim: That's it. Yeah, that's much better than I was gonna say. So yeah, exactly. So and it felt it felt pretty good most that week. So I'm super careful. I did a run on Monday and I think I went to like a mile and I tried to keep it as flat as I could because uphills and downhills made it painful just because I had to work a little differently. I found the the most cushioned shoe I could find. So I was in my Socony Triumphs and my A6 gel nimbuses just to get as much support as I could for my foot while I was running. It went okay that first run. was, I mean, I could tell I was 100%, but it didn't really get worse. the next day I did two miles just to, and I always had the caveat of if it starts to hurt, I'm gonna stop, because it's not worth going back to that. So. I did two miles the next day and again, felt it was okay. It wasn't spectacular or whatever, but it wasn't getting worse. So Wednesday, I think I did four miles just to kind of see, and I was, just being super cautious with it. I knew I was able to get up to, think like seven or eight that Saturday, I can't remember exactly. And had kind of started to feel normal again. So I'm like, well, I did seven miles on Saturday. So I'm going to start on seven miles, whatever, on Monday. And anyways, I was able to kind of just bounce back that way. I was super careful early. But then I was able to kind of, once I got running again, kind of get my legs under me pretty quick. I was able to get a 16-mile long run in two weeks before Ryan Head: Yeah. Tim: Ogden Marathon. Granted, it wasn't like the fastest run of all time or whatever. But I was super grateful that my foot would allow me to do that. It still wasn't 100%. Like it was still kind of achy, but not like to a point where I was concerned about it. think it was just from the, you know, using that and, not being quite 100 % on the foot, I figured if it wasn't getting worse and if it would allow me to do the miles without, you know, becoming a problem, I'm going to go for it just, and just see what happens. And so I did so, and then I was able to work through Ogden marathon. And ironically, I didn't really have any Ryan Head: That's awesome. Tim: pain at all during Ogden. was very compliant or whatever during the whole race. My legs were the ones that gave out on me on Ogden, like 60 miles a long way, but to run 26 miles after 60 miles of long serenade, I just ran out of Ryan Head: Hmm. Tim: gas in my legs to run the pace. was running, I think was doing 7.15s. It was kind of my bull, I'd run a 7.15 mile and just see how long I could hold on. I think I made it. 18 or 19 miles and is like, all right, time to slow down a little bit. So, but Ryan Head: Huh. That's awesome. Tim: yeah, so I was able to bounce back that way. And I don't know if I'd still say it's 100%. I still have days where it's still kind of achy, Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Tim: but not consistently or anything like that. It comes off and on. Sometimes when I do a really hard speed workout or like doing those big long runs down Big Continent Canyon where it's requiring a little different type of force on the foot. It'd be a little achy that way. But that's just what I did. I was super careful, put in a boot for three weeks, elliptical for a week after, just kind of get the movement back into it, and then super careful when I started running again. So that's kind Ryan Head: Yeah. Tim: of how I worked through my plantar fascia issues this spring and into the first part of the summer. Ryan Head: Dude, that's awesome. Yeah. I I love that. I think, you know, I mean the lesson I take away from all that as, you know, you're talking about it is I just like, you know, yes, you people we want to run, that's what runners do, right? We want to get out and get going. But the reality is, is like you gotta be patient, right? You have to you have to take the time off. You gotta let your foot heal. because right, if if you hadn't, what what what would have happened, right? You you could still Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: be dealing with major issues. I know even now you're like Yeah, you can I can still kind of feel it type of a deal. Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: But what would have happened if you hadn't? You know, that's what I always say is I'm like, it could have probably been way worse. So I love that. I love Tim: Absolutely. Ryan Head: I love that you were patient and you were just like, hey, you know, Ogden's not gonna be my all-time PR. That's okay. I've got Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: to get feeling better so I can have a decent end of the year. So that's awesome. Tim: Yeah, for sure. Ryan Head: My next question is, and it's always the question everybody wants to know. We've talked about it before, but Tim: Okay. Ryan Head: might as well bring it up again. You talk about doing VOT VO2 workouts and what that entails. Tim: Thank Ryan Head: Explain what those are and dude Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: share some that you did and what that did for you as you were going through the summer. Because I'll tell you right now, like we've talked about this in the other episodes that me and Tim done we that we did regarding like training for road races and stuff. You gotta do the speed work, you've got to do these things. If you don't, you're not gonna get fast. Like, you know, and I know there's other tr trains that thought out there and there's other mindsets but at the end of the day if you're not doing the speed work if you're not running the the times you're looking for if you're not doing the volume you're you're gonna struggle and that's just if all the elites are doing it then that tells you all you need to know. So but Tim: Okay. Ryan Head: yeah I mean what did that look like on your side sh and share kind of what that looks like. Tim: Yes. Yeah, absolutely. So I started pretty basic. My first VO2 workout or whatever you want to call it was one minute on one minute off. I think I did 20 of them just to get 20 Ryan Head: Heck yeah. Tim: minutes of worth or whatever of speed work. And I was trying to do about 5k pace because that short you really the effort you really can't judge because it's not long enough to get your heart rates up high. And so I'd do one minute on one minute off and then I went to a quarter mile repeats or 400s, whatever you want to call them. After that, did, I can't remember, 12 of those, 12 by 400s with a minute or two rest in between. I don't remember the exact number that I was doing, probably two minutes to start with initially. And then I'd go up to half mile repeats. Again, same type of thing at 5K pace. Give myself two minute rest in between. And I'd do eight to 10 of those. And then I'd do K repeats, 1K repeats. Same again, same thing. 5k effort basically. And I do yeah, 878 those start. don't know. I don't remember the exact how I started out, but and then I do my repeats and then I took a and again is that 5k face? So run a mile at 605 610 something like that. Depending on the terrain then I then in between those I'd also take an occasional rest week. But then towards the end of. my training block, like my last, VO two max workout, did 20 times 400 or quarter mile Ryan Head: Yeah. Tim: repeats at six minute mile pace roughly with a minute rest in between and did a two mile warmup and usually like a two mile cool down. I was doing usually those workouts. I was doing about 14 miles worth of total running, you know, to my, my warmup and my, my repeats and my cool down stuff. was doing about 14 miles worth of running on those. So I just build it up gradually. So with one week I did, you know, eight by 400, the next time I do 400, they'll do 10 or 12 or whatever the number might be just to increase my endurance at running at that effort for longer, essentially. So I could get more fitness built in for my marathons that were coming up. So that's kind of what my VOT max workout was fit in. Yeah, I try to do longer ones. Generally I rarely did. I only did the one minute on one minute off on my first one because that while it's a good workout for marathons, probably not super most ideal. At least in my opinion, just because the duration is a long one. So I always try to do half mile repeats or K repeats or mile repeats just to kind of build up that endurance for being able to do it for that long. So But yeah, that's kind of what my VO2 max workouts were like and I do them for me. They worked out on Thursday, so I do them on Thursdays, couple days for my long run. They give me a day in between to. Kind of rest up a little bit and then go back at it again on Saturday in my long run. So that's what my VO2 max workouts look like during my training block and they were tough. There's my hardest workout of the week by far, obviously, but they helped so much. think during my. my training block to just get me back to the fitness which where I wanted to be because I had fallen behind because of the injury that I had had. So yeah, they were super beneficial in my opinion to get me back to being fit really fast. Ryan Head: That's awesome. One, I I'm not gonna I'm not gonna elaborate on heat training again because we've talked about that so many times on here. because Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: obviously you train through the summer, it's important. Go back and listen to some of our older episodes with me and Tim. We t we elaborate on on heat training as well as I talk about it with other guests that I've had. it is super important. But the one last thing I wanna talk about with your training this summer, because I think personally It's a huge game changer what you did. this one last thing, because i I've always been a volume guy. that's important to me. The more volume could get, it's just gonna make you I mean this the statistics show it. I mean we're not making this up pe things up people. Like you look at the stats, look at look at the the elites. The more miles they get, the more volume they're getting, they're they're they're accomplishing great things, right? And and so the last thing I want to touch on with you was just your the days when you're running twice in a day. and Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: you did that it wasn't just once a week. You're like you already mentioned, you're doing that multiple times a week. How did those how how did those go for you and what like give a bit of advice that you'd share to anyone that's like you know you're they're trying to get faster and how to incorporate that because you know right you're not you're not necessarily going out and doing 20 miles on two runs you know that's impossible people I mean Tim: Yeah, yeah. Ryan Head: not it's not impossible I mean can it be done sure but you know you're being strategic about those two runs but yeah how did you do those and yeah share share a little bit of information on those Tim: Yeah, so what I did and you probably hear this a bunch, like keep your hard days hard and your easy days easy, right? So maybe this sounds crazy. Maybe it makes sense to me. But so on the days that I do my speed workouts, that's when I'd run twice a day. do, Monday would be one of my speed workout days. So I do, you know, between 10 and 14 miles or whatever of speed workout in the morning. And then I'd come home after work and I'd go do another workout, another run in the afternoon. Usually my runs in the afternoon were just super easy. Obviously I'm running the heat now, right? It's summertime, so it's 90 degrees or whatever or warmer. But they were super easy runs just to kind of just build general fitness. So for example, I do like my last week I did 14 miles in the morning and then come home after work and I do four more miles or assuming five more miles in the afternoon. And then I'd always do strides at the end of my excuse me at the end of my. second run as well, just to get a little bit more fitness into my training blocks. that's, then Tuesday and Wednesday were easy run days for me. I, if you ever watched my straw, it's kind of funny to look at my, my paces on my easy runs. They're like five minutes per miles slower than what I'm doing my speed workout that. but, so I do keep my, Tuesday was an easy day, Wednesday an easy day, and Thursday I do my VO2 max workout. And then I would do a second run in the afternoon, again, another five miles. Wes strides again after that to just get the miles. And so that was my whole thing. Keep my easy runs. Easy days, easy. Hard days, hard. And then obviously Saturdays are my long runs. So that's how I structured it. It felt Ryan Head: Thank you. Tim: like it worked well for me to. have those easy days in between just to kind of let my body recuperate a little bit. I'm getting older now. it's just, it worked out really well for me to have it structured that way. Ryan Head: Yeah, that's awesome. And and again, right, I I'm not saying that every person here has to do, you know, two runs three times a week. That's not what we're saying, right? It's Tim: Thank Ryan Head: just that's Tim has seen success doing that, right? And, you know, you see a lot of the professional athletes that are doing this, right? They're doing double runs in a w you know, in a day and It it it it helps like it's gonna make you faster. I get right, Tim's not only doing a speed work in the morning on a Monday, but then like that night he's going out not that night, but that afternoon he's going out in the heat and now he's getting heat training. So he's he's just putting more p pennies in the piggy bank, right? He is putting more to where he can cash out that, you know, cash that out when it comes to race day because he's doing he's getting the volume, he's getting heat training, he's he's adapting his body to to the circumstances, like all the stuff right and it's just all coming together really really nicely and you know that's the thing that I would say it was really fun to kind of follow you along this whole training block because you kept getting just these crazy fast times I was like my gosh Tim: Okay. Ryan Head: like it's insane and like you mentioned that last long run you had before BitCon would I still remember because I was near you doing a stupid run myself up up near Desolation Lake Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: Almost gets struck by lightning. We we've shared that story a couple times already on the set on this podcast. But I still remember looking at your times for that day, and I was like, my gosh, like you were so fast flying down that, and you and Megan were just hauling. And I thought to myself, like, dude, you're so ready for whatever comes your way. because that was just impressive, it was just super, super impressive how fast you did that. and so it was fun to see all this work because you know, obviously, I knew about your injury that you Tim: you Ryan Head: see. sustained and then I remember when your hip was kind of giving you a little bit of grief during during during the summer as well. And and listen, I mean like you said we're all mo a lot of us at least me and you, we're getting older, right? And don't worry everybody who's listening to this, if you're in your 20s, don't worry, father time's undefeated. So it's coming for Tim: Hahaha Ryan Head: you. Even if you don't think it is, it is. It's gonna get you eventually. And so You know, that's that's just kind of the deal, sadly, is that, you know, as as we're training for this stuff, you know, you start to sustain some stuff. And, I haven't shared this with anybody this year, but I yeah, I had the same injury that I've had in 2024 on my left knee. just some severe pain kind of underneath the k kneecap and and I don't know what's going on there, but I did it about three to four weeks before Wasatch. Yeah. I was like, you know, this is just kind of the deal and like you like you, I took like kind of a recovery week that week after it happened. it was still there. It's still there. I can feel it now as we're talking. but you know, sometimes you you put you gotta put the work in, right? You just say, Okay, well, you know, as long as it's not something very severe, I mean, you just keep going. You just go because the we love the sport and we wanna push ourselves to be the best. Again, I'm not saying to run injured, I'm not saying that, you know, only tough people do that. I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is sometimes you just assess it and you say, okay, I've dealt with this before, like I can run through this, I'm gonna be fine. And then there's times where you're like you did, you go see a podiatrist and you're like, I gotta get this fixed because there's something severe going on here. And I think that comes a lot of times with just knowing your own body, right? You you've done this enough times, you're just like, okay, I know this is okay, or this is not okay, and I need to do something more. So, but Tim: Yeah, for sure. Ryan Head: Well cool dude. Well take us to take us to the Codwood, man. How did that go? I mean you Tim: Okay. Ryan Head: Yeah. Take us to the day before and take us to race day, man. I I know we're all excited to hear how these races went for ya. Tim: So the day before was good. I took the day off of work. It's kind like I always do so I can just kind of I went down early to get my bib and get all that stuff squared away early so I could kind of relax for the rest of the day. Nothing too crazy or out of ordinary, you know, that I did for that. I ate and drank, you know, tried to hydrate, tried to get carbohydrates or whatever in me like I usually do. yeah, so nothing too crazy the day before race day comes. And I was super stoked about, my race just cause that long run I'd had a couple of weeks ago. I mean, I was in the best shape of my life. Had the best run of my life. Basically. I thought I was ready to rock and roll and get that two 45 marathon that I was after. race goes off. I'm feeling all right. I'm not feeling spectacular, but we're doing OK. I think I averaged a 6.05 mile. If you've ever done big cottonwood, those first three miles are really downhill. So I was just trying to not push, but kind of take advantage of the elevation drop just a little bit, even though you're at 9,500 feet or whatever it is at start. I was trying to just be a little conservative, but again, take advantage of the Of the terrain that I was dealt with. So I feel like my heart rates, it wasn't super high. think I was in the one I one forties, maybe low one fifties to the those first three miles. if you've ever done big cottonwood marathon or not, there's a big climate mile, but just after mile three, climbing up to bright and to get, do the Brighton loop. And then you go back down and I always take that mile. I don't ever change my effort. My pace will change. But I keep my Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Tim: same effort. I don't think it's blowing up my whole race for that one mile to try to maintain a 615 pace or whatever up that climb. So we get around the Brighton Loop and I'm still feeling OK. But so we start going downhill and I'm like, OK, now's the time to kind of start pushing a little bit because I have what 16 miles of downhill basically or 15 miles, something like that, 14 miles of downhill. I start pushing and but not I'm not trying to kill myself either because I know that from mile 13 to about mile 18 is where the most drop happens on that course. I was trying to save some energy for that, but I was trying to run about a 615 pace, 620 pace somewhere around there. And I was I was basically holding on there. I think was more like a 625 pace, but it was just weird because I never felt. Like I did that a couple of weeks ago before that where I just felt super strong like that. that long run that I did, I felt like I could conquer the world basically that day. And I wasn't quite feeling that way on race day, which I was, I was, I don't know, discouraged, but I was a little frustrated like, can't I felt like I did a couple of weeks ago, but things were moving along nicely. was, I mean, I wasn't way off pace. was right where I kind of wanted to be through the first half of the race, hit the half. Marathon mark moving fine. And I was like, okay, now it's time to start kind of pushing a little bit. So, mile 13 to 18, I was doing about a six five pace, just kind of take advantage again of the train, but not so much that I was, you know, hopefully not blowing up my mind the rest of my race. And I got out of the canyon, getting my heart rates weren't super high. I was probably in the low one fifties again. I don't know if you guys fall heart rates and whatnot, but I I keep tabs on it just to kind of see how hard I'm But anyway, so I came out of the canyon and I was averaging a 618 mile, which basically means if I want to run a 245 marathon, I have to maintain that pace for the rest of the race. was like, this is going to take some work. So I held on to about my... 21 or 22 and I actually I mean I was running like 621 620 so no that hit 618 buzz right there like I was it's fine but then The the terrain on the course and I know. I just didn't have it that day I pushed as hard as I felt I could without Totally blowing up those last few miles My pace to drop I think I was averaging 650 miles the last four or five miles of that race So my 245 goal is obviously kind of out of the picture at that point. So I was just trying to push hard as I could and see what time I could run, hopefully get a PR still of some sort. I ended up falling about a minute short, a minute and half short of my downhill marathon PR around a 249.32 there last year or something like that. I it's 250. 50 this year. So I was a little, I don't know. I don't know how to say this. I don't know. Like, disappointed isn't really the right word, but it kind of was like, I haven't expected much more than that. I thought I was going to run even on a bad day. thought I'd run 247, 248, something like that. And, you know, it still would have been a great race. 250 is still a great race. But I Ryan Head: Yep. Yeah, yeah, totally. Tim: just. I was just a little frustrated that I didn't have the same type of run I did, you know, a couple of weeks ago when my, when my legs are tired, man, I already put 80 miles on my legs for that, you know, that week or whatever, I 70 miles or whatever. And then to go run that, you know, awesome run on my last long run. Then this week, you know, my legs were all rested and I can't get the legs moving like I did a couple of weeks before that. So. I don't know, like frustrated. Yeah, maybe a better word than disappointed. I don't think I was disappointed, Ryan Head: Yeah. Tim: but I kind of was at same time. I had honestly thought I'd run better than that. So it is what it is. I mean, I tried my hardest side. I was definitely out of gas at the end. My legs were especially if you've done that, that marathon, your quads are very sore at Ryan Head: Yeah. Tim: the end of that race. And So I can't say that I'm disappointed in what I did because I certainly tried my hardest to run the best race I could, but I was a little frustrated that it wasn't the outcome. had put more miles in that training block, done more speed work than I had ever had before. And for whatever reason, it just didn't pay off on race day that day. So it was bittersweet a little bit. Yeah. I'm never sad about running a race or whatever, because I'm just grateful that I can still do it and do it at a pretty good level for me, I think. But when you expect something and it doesn't come to fruition, you go back and think about what you could have done better and things like that. maybe it's a good thing. I've already learned a lot, think, from what has happened that race. Yeah, a lot of self reflection after that type of an experience during the race for sure. Ryan Head: Yeah, that's awesome. and and like you said, I mean, you didn't hit the exact goals that you wanted, but it was still a great race, dude. Like a two fifty Tim: For sure. Ryan Head: is a two fifty is amazing, so right like one you bost and qualify yet again, for your for your age group. I mean you would boss Tim: Yeah. Yeah. Ryan Head: and qualify for any age group with that pace, but Tim: Thank Ryan Head: but you but you boss and qualify didn't exactly do what you wanted, but you still had a great day. and like you said, anyone who's done the Big Cottonwood Canyon Marathon, it it's tough, man. That's a tough race. You got five thousand over five thousand feet of drop. and it's tearing you apart the whole time. And then like Tim said, you come out at mile eighteen and you feel like it starts to kind of level off a little bit more. And when it does, Tim: Mm-hmm. Ryan Head: it feels like now you're going uphill because you're not doing this, you're not doing this downhill Tim: Totally. Ryan Head: any longer, and you're like What the freak is going on? Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: Anyways, so it's just impressive. Like you said you come out of that and you're like, okay, I gotta try to, you know, average, and you did it for like four more miles and you know, 620 or 22 or whatever number it was. And Tim: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Ryan Head: that's impressive, dude. Like that's really cool that you're able to still pull that off and then like you said, you just got to a point where you're like, I'm kinda gassed, and so I'm gonna 650 it the rest of the way, and still a fantastic Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: pace and and time. I remember that day 'cause that was the the second day to Wasatch. Was Tim: Good yeah. Ryan Head: it hot? Was it hot for you guys at that time or had it had it started getting warm? Because Friday was not hot on Wasatch. Saturday, Tim: Yeah, yeah. Ryan Head: holy moly, it got hot and it got hot quick. Yeah, how was that for you, the weather? Tim: Yeah, it was definitely warmer for sure. mean, I think, I mean, it wasn't hot until probably, yeah, I got out of canyon. I remember a little bit, there was a few times where I thought, it's kind of little bit warmer than I'd like, you know, mile 16 or whatever, but it wasn't, I don't know if I consider it hot at that point. I just remember coming out of canyon because the canyon provides a lot of shade for you just because of how the canyon is, at least at your back. So you're not really feeling like you're, you know, in a sweltering heat or whatever. But when you get out of the canyon, just having the breeze and all that stuff in there just kind of keep you a little cooler and then you come out and you just don't have it anymore. You're running on the streets and you know, the asphalt's warm and whatnot and you're climbing. It's not like big hills, but a lot of rollers. You have a lot of turns and know, going through the neighbors and stuff, I don't know. You're the same way if others are, but turns are really hard on me later on in races. I don't know if it's cause I'm old or what, but. trying to turn and then try to get your momentum going again to run that certain pace is hard for me, especially on that type of a course, we have so much downhill. So yeah, the last few miles for sure, it was certainly warm. I remember, I think it was about mile 23, just thinking like, man, I'm rusting out here on the road here. But yeah, I'd done the training for the heat. And I knew that would happen, the chances of it. were likely that it'd still be pretty warm on race day. So I tried to prepare the best I could for it. I did at least three runs a week in the heat just to kind of get ready for it. So I just don't think my legs were wanting to do what they need to do those last four miles Ryan Head: Cooperate. Tim: to get the goal that I wanted. it is what it is. Ryan Head: Yeah. Yeah. It is what it is, and you still had a great day and and it's cool. I mean, I I appreciate coming and talking about this be on the on this episode because yeah, I mean, not every run is gonna be perfect and not every race is gonna be perfect, but yeah, you like you said, you take you take what you you you know you get from those and and you say, Hey, I'm gonna learn from it and grow and see what we can do on the next one. what is one thing maybe you learned from that race that you're like, Tim: you Ryan Head: and not maybe that you applied it to Saint George because you know Saint George was so quickly thereafter, but what's something that you're gonna you're gonna do different moving forward. Tim: Yeah, so I'm actually working on an Instagram post about it right now. But so the one thing I, and it's funny, I don't know why I did this, because I never preach it. But so a lot of my runs, my speed work this year is effort based and not pace based. And I think just not running long miles at marathon pace is what ended up doing me. I had, I had a mindset, like I my Monday runs are like my temple workout type of days where I try to run, you know, at a certain amount of effort. So, and my, my whole thought process was I was doing six 25, six thirties on, those days. And I thought, well, I'm downhill. I'll be able to hit the six 15 mark and it'll be fine. Right. Well, it didn't end up coming to fruition that way. It didn't spell out that way on race day. And if you would told me, you know, after my last long run, yeah, I freaking nailed that training block, right? Like I ran unbelievable on that last long run. But I think that was the main difference for me is I was running off of effort, not pace. mean, ultimately, if you want to run a certain pace at race day, you have to train at certain, at that certain pace on race day. so knowing that going in St. George, I knew I was kind of in trouble a little bit already. because you can't change anything really in that quick turnaround of a time. But I've certainly learned what's a stat because I already knew that, but I don't know why I thought I'd be okay to get away at this time or whatever. But yeah, that's my big takeaway for sure. Ryan Head: So take us to in between Wa in between Wasich and Bear. We're not talking about ultra running Ryan. take us take us to take us Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: to the three weeks in between Big Cottonwood and St. George. Like what Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: did recovery look like for you? What did you do to try to get feeling better? to get some mileage, re sharpen the saw with some speed a little bit. Yeah, what did that what did that three weeks look like for you? Tim: Yeah, so I always take a week off after a marathon just to let my body heal up. Everyone's different and there's difference of opinions and whatnot. Like I know you, you do a very good job being able get out there pretty quickly after a race and able log miles. And I just, I just can't do it. I've tried it before and I got injured the one time I did it. So I always take a week off after the race and just try to rest up as much as I can. After that week, then I'll start running again. So, but I'll do kind of like a reverse taper. So like the first Monday back, I'll do three miles. It's kind of get my legs back under me. And then Tuesday, I'll do four miles and then Wednesday, six miles, et cetera. I get up, I got up to, I did a 14 mile long run the week before St. George, just kind of get the legs. feeling like they could handle that type of miles again. And it went actually really good. had a, I felt really strong that day and my legs felt good. I yeah, just really good run. I felt like I was kind of back after that. Again, it takes Sunday off for, just to rest or whatever. And then race week, I did just like a six mile easy run Monday. And then I did a speed workout Tuesday, just kind of get the legs moving again and see how they could feel. running at the pace I was wanting to run at again. And then, yeah, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday is like, yeah, it's six miles Wednesday, four miles Thursday, three miles Friday, listen strides. And then it was time to rock and roll for St. George. So Ryan Head: Heck yeah. That's that's awesome. Well, I go ahead. No, you're Tim: Yeah, that's how I do my three weeks. Sorry. That's how I handled my time in between the races. Ryan Head: Heck yeah. No, I like that. I like that you take that time off and then you kind of try to go back out and resharpen the saw a little bit with fitness and a little bit of speed. our our dear friend Lindsay Nielsen, she would tell you if you would have got up on the trails, you would have been a little faster. So anyway, it's got I know, I know, trust me. I'm fully aware in many ways. that's awesome. That that's that's funny. Tim: She loves to pester me on that. That's funny. Yeah. Ryan Head: So yeah, dude, take us to St. George. How did how did that go? And and Tim: Alright, yeah. Ryan Head: before you do, I I swear this is the year of heat for races, but why don't you make a good emphasis on heat because the amount of chaos I've heard about the heat this year at St. George has been absolutely insane. Like Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: I anyways, y you don't need to make it a big point, but I would at least try to mention it 'cause it's crazy, Tim: Yeah, no. Ryan Head: dude. The amount of people who struggle because of heat was was chaotic. Tim: Yeah, I mean, if you go look at Instagram, you all people that I follow and probably that you follow on Instagram, I think I can only think of. one person who had a race that went how they'd hoped and that's Kinsey. She had an unbelievable day down there. if you look at, at least everyone else that I follow, I think most people had a tough day down there in general. I think the heat, I mean, you can't blame it all on the heat, but it was certainly a factor. I mean, the starting line, was over 60 degrees at the starting line. Yeah, Ryan Head: Holy holy crap. Tim: so it was pretty warm. you know, to begin with, I love having marathons start at like 45 degrees. So Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Tim: starting at 60, 61, 62 degrees to begin with, you're already fighting the battle. I mean, you have five miles kind of before the sun comes up and then you're just kind of in it at that point. Ryan Head: Dude, the craziest thing about That was I remember was talking to a couple of my athletes who were running it, running St. George, and I remember telling them, hey, Central, which is the name of the city, Central, Utah, where the race starts. It looks like it's gonna be like 44 degrees at the start. So I was like, dude, you're gonna want to bundle up, take extra clothes, and then it's freaking 60, dude, like at the start line. Like, Tim: Yeah. Yeah. Ryan Head: not good. Yeah. Tim: Yeah, it was hot. so you obviously like it was sitting around because my bus is at three 45 in the morning, right? So I had to get up at two o'clock in the morning to get ready and, and we weren't staying in St. George. So we had about a half hour drive to get to where the buses pick, where you get on the bus to go up to the starting line. So early morning, get up there, sitting around for a while or whatever, right? It's trying to relax and hang out until the race starts. race gets going. My goal was, so after, you know, going through big cottonwood marathon, I had a, you know, it's kind of a goal. was going to run to bail at about a six 25 pace, which, was pretty within my wheelhouse that too many issues generally, at least with my fitness right now. ended up running six 35. through to when I got, by the time I got to Vail, my pace saw is already a little bit behind, but I wasn't super worried. I was like, that's like a minute. Like that's not that big of a deal. Right. And then my goal, went to hit Vail is just because from seven to about, you know, it's 12 or 13, it's super hilly. There's yeah, Vail Hill, which is a really big climb. but I think people don't realize or they forget about there's a big old climb about mile 10 to do as well. It's pretty relentless. might be, I don't know if it's as steep as Vale, but certainly right there. So my whole goal was to just kind of work through that as best I could, same effort. I mean, my pace is going to change, obviously, just because of the terrain or whatever. My hope was I'd get through there at about a halfway mark, about an hour and 25 minutes. I ended up getting through halfway about an hour 30. So I was five minutes behind the clock. He's bearing down on us again, you know, already. And so my goal before the race is I'm going to run a, so my goal was 125 first half and a one 20 second half. That's kind of what I was going to do. Cause the second half, as you know, St. George is way more downhill than the first half of it. And there's lot of, lots of downhill. So I was hoping I could, really take advantage of the terrain on the last half of that race. So I start moving and I was pretty close. I was running, well, I guess I shouldn't say that. I was running about between 618 and 622 pace for miles, about 13 to 17 or so. But I needed to be going 605 pace basically to run a 120 half marathon. my gap that I needed to run my two 45 marathon was still growing. Obviously I wasn't making up ground at this point. I wasn't necessarily losing a whole bunch either a couple seconds, you know, but wasn't really gaining ground either. And that's having, you know, a thought of playing the game of do I push as hard as I can risk blowing up in the heat and having just a horrible last few miles or do I push it an effort I know I can tolerate and just see what happens the rest of day and go from there. And I toiled with that for several miles trying to decide what route I thought was best. I'm not a mantra person or mantra person. A lot of people use them. I'm not one of those people for whatever reason. Maybe you are, Ryan. don't really use them. But the only one, the one I do love And I actually don't abide by it by a whole lot, but I think it's funny is PR or ER. And so I was hoping, you know, I could just push super hard that last half of the race and just go for it and see. But I got to mile 18 where the ledges is. And I just knew like I could probably get a couple of miles, six minutes, six or five pace. And I would have been in trouble. So I ended up not following my mantra PR or ER. said, I'll just run the best race I can given the circumstances. My legs were, I know, I thought they were recovered from, from big cottonwood. Maybe they weren't. just didn't feel like I had the energy to move at six minute mile pace for the last half of the race. so I just did the best I could. I didn't want to blow up like I did at big cottonwood. I just want to have a solid. race, I guess, and finish strongly, I guess you want to say, and just have a decent run. So that's what I did. I ended up running about, I think in my last half I was running about 640 pace for the last half of my marathon. And I ended up finishing in 257 and change was actually even my fastest St. George marathon. My fastest one is 256 something earlier. times. But so it was an interesting race. I mean, certainly the heat was a little bit of factor. Was it the main factor? No. Did I have an awesome training block to what I thought would get me to a 245 marathon? I thought I had done the work. I think I still did the work. I think maybe my focus was a little off on how I did the work. was I recovered enough in between from Big Continent St. George to run? the 245 pace. I don't know if I was it doesn't seem like maybe I was quite there physically to be able to do that. I don't think St. George's there's just a lot of variables in play. And most of it probably self inflicted, which I understand. And, you know, you just try to do the best you can on the day that you've got and you hope for the best and some days it's your days and some days it's not. mean, I don't know of any runner who runs a PR every single race. That would be awesome. But that's not the reality of running most races. Even if you watch Elites, obviously they don't ever do that either. So again, and it's kind of like the cottonwood, like the feelings like frustrated a little bit that I've put in all this work for these two races and neither race went how I wanted it to go. Am I sad or whatever about it? No, because then, mean, ultimately in the grand scheme of things, it has no bearing on. you what I do or I'm not, it's not my livelihood on the line by running these races, right? It's just fun to see what you can do on race day. And if it's your day, it is. And if it's your, if it's not your day, it's not, you just go do the best you can. And you just try to enjoy the whole experience. And, but I wouldn't lie if I was saying that I was a little frustrated on how it played out. for those two races, despite the amount of miles and the work and all that stuff that I put into trying to run my fastest marathon times ever. Ryan Head: Yeah. Well, I I mean, I get where you're coming from, I hundred percent do, and and I'm I'm grateful that you came on here and shared this just because, right, there's so many people who are in the same boat as you. ever like my first seven years of running marathons was exactly this. I was like, I have worked so hard and I still can't Tim: you Ryan Head: get faster. I'm like, what am I doing wrong? you know, and I obviously I figured that out over the years and stuff and you know, finally got some stuff going in the right direction. But even then there's days where it just isn't your day. And that's just how it goes sometimes. It's just not Tim: Yeah. Yep. Ryan Head: your day and you know it sucks, but it is what it is. And you can't you can't beat yourself up. You can't be like, my gosh, like I'm gonna give up on this, like this is stupid, like Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: whatever. Like we all have bad days, right? We're all gonna have days that it doesn't come together nicely the way we want. The beautiful thing is is you got to experience it, right? You like you said, you were like I you know, as you were talking about like Saint George and you shared that with me before, it's just like you're like I was wrestling with the idea of like do I go all out and have a miserable time? Or do I just enjoy it, keep it a comfortable pace that I can survive? And and I think that's awesome, dude. I love that you're like, you know, maybe Maybe my health isn't really the thing I wanna sacrifice to maybe hit the time I want 'cause you were still, Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: you know, as you know, you were you were a little bit off and it was only gonna get Tim: For sure. Ryan Head: harder. It's only getting harder each mile. Ever every second you're there it's only getting harder. And so I Tim: Right. Right. Ryan Head: I love that you took that you took that choice. I mean, yeah, it's tough, especially with how hard you worked this summer, all the effort you put in. But, you know, given everything and all the circumstances, I think you had two amazing races. I mean, right? How many people Can say that they've bossed and qualified in back to back races within three weeks. Like, not Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: many people can. And and and that's the thing is, and I know it's kind of a bittersweet thing for me maybe to say to you, but it's like it's cool because I'm like, dude, I don't know anyone outside of maybe you. And well, I honestly I don't know anyone else who would do two marathons back to back in three three weeks and boss and qualify. I honestly don't know if I know anyone that's done that besides you. Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: I know some great runners who can ball boss and qualify on one marathon, but But they're not gonna go do two of them back to back and and absolutely rip themselves apart doing it. And you did that, dude. And like that just shows like all the work, all the effort, you know, the dedication, the commitment, you know, the speed work, the VO2 max trainings, you know, all this stuff, like all that came together for you to be able to do two races and have just a great day. And I it just speaks a lot to your character, it speaks a lot to your dedication, your commitment, like I said, and and it's just it's awesome. I'm I'm impressed. Like I know it's tough. It's maybe not the pill you want to swallow, but Tim: Yeah Ryan Head: but it still is just impressive, dude. And it just you know like I got I as I was telling so many people, I'm just like, dude, you know, say what you want about me running back to back hundreds, like running back to back marathon, road marathons, is dang near hard too. Like, don't I would never discredit like the physical pain Tim: No. Ryan Head: that you go through to to accomplish that. So I'm just impressed with you, dude. congrats. Congratulations on two great races. I know again, Tim: Thanks. Ryan Head: not not necessarily the time you wanted, but overall, you know, 26 miles under a six hour time limit, or fifty you know, fifty-two almost fifty-three miles under six hours. Like, congrats, dude. Like, that's epic. Like, absolutely epic if you look at it that way. Tim: Thanks. Yeah. Ryan Head: So super cool, most impressive, and definitely just dude, you're a good man. You're it's cool to hear these stories from you and just you know. what what all the work you went through and yeah a little bit disappointment but also you're you're okay. You've got other big you got bigger fish in life to fry. There's bigger things and and yeah you of course you love this sport. You're gonna come back, you're gonna try again next year. You're gonna do whatever but you know you're not gonna dwell on this. You're not gonna be like, my life sucks. I you know all this. It's just like hey life goes on. Like we move on. You know, some races just aren't aren't your deal. So you just move on. So but Tim: Yeah, I mean, did I have fun trying? Like, absolutely. Like, it's awesome to go out there and just see what you can do. Yeah, so I hope I'm not trying to portray like I'm not sad about it. Like, I had an awesome time. There's still fun. And it's cool just to go see it. Some days, like I said, it's your day, and some days it's not. yeah, I mean, was I expecting something a little different? For sure. But yeah, it's all for fun. And like you said, there's always next time. I'm still healthy. you know, next week we can start doing some fun runs and, you know, start dinking around for the rest of the winter time until who knows what we do again, you know, next year or whatever. But like, yeah, I mean, I still had a good time and it's always cool just to see what you're capable of on any given day. And there's your day and some days it's not. know a lot of people struggle mentally or emotionally when they don't have a race that goes their way and it beats them up, you know. They have a hard time digesting it or dealing with it emotionally. maybe I'm not an emotional person, but I don't really struggle with that. It's still fun. It's cool. And it didn't go out my way. Am I frustrated by that? Sure. Did I learn a lot from it? Yeah, for sure. Am I going to change some things in the future? Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, it was still fun. I had a good time. And I just wish it had gone a little different, was all. Ryan Head: Yeah. Well, I know I was like I I was like as we we were just going over, you know, as we're talking about, you know, you're you're gonna get back at it next year and all this jazz. I was like, you know, I honestly don't know what you plan to do next year in twenty twenty seven. And I don't know if you've even figured it out, but it's one of my favorite You have zero idea? Okay, let's Tim: I have zero idea. Yep. Ryan Head: put it this way. What's something that you would like to do you think would be kind of fun? Like n any race. Like it can be even Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: if it's ones you've already repeated. What would be something fun you would like to do in twenty twenty seven? Tim: So maybe this sounds weird, but I love the winter racing series so much. it's my favorite, maybe not my favorite, but it's Ryan Head: Heck yeah. Tim: certainly one of my favorite things to do every year, just because it's so different than what I typically do, right? Like usually I do marathons or whatever. So doing a 5K and a 10K and a 10 mile or a half mile, it was just so different than my typical routine. I really, really love the Ogden Marathons winter racing series. So if you guys are toying with the idea, If you need something to do the last little bit of winter or whatever, and you're in the Northern Utah area, I'd recommend at least taking a look at it. It's super fun. It's just a cool event. Sometimes the weather's just insane and you're running out there in the snow and whatnot, but that's what makes it cool. Like, don't love it. I love those types of adventures. It's a, you know, you're trying to run as fast as you can, but you got your trail shoes on because there's six inches of snow. And so you need a little extra traction and things like that. honestly past that, I don't know what I'm going to do. I mean, I don't know. I don't know to be completely honest with you. I have kind of a, rolling yearly St. George marathon. think I've ran the full marathon there more than any other race. I, I've done Ogden a fair amount, but I did the half usually a lot more Ogden at least initially than the full, but St. George, think that was my seventh or eighth time. Ryan Head: Thank you. Tim: doing the St. George Fall and I've done the half once. So I kind of like that little tradition a little bit, just to kind of get away a little bit. It's like a vacation built in with it. I Ryan Head: Yeah. Heck yeah. Tim: honestly have no idea. I don't know. I have no idea what I want to do. Zero. So. Ryan Head: Heck yeah. No, that's cool. No, hey, we'll figure it out, dude. I'm sure you'll you'll get some time to think about it and you'll come on again here soon and you'll be like, Kid, this is what I decided to do in twenty twenty seven. So yeah, no, that's cool, dude. Yeah. Tim: I think the thing for me right now is just mentally, because I've done so much, just so much running in the last couple months, like my brain is like, just, I don't want to think about any of Ryan Head: Stop. Tim: that right now. Like, let's just go have fun for a couple months and then we can regroup and decide what we're going to do next year. So yeah, Ryan Head: Yeah. Tim: mean, there's a couple, yeah, I just have no idea. Ryan Head: I I second ya, like I'm the same way. Like I mean you've talked about it countless times, but I've talked with so many others and I'm like, I just need like two or three months to not worry about races and Just I mean I got one race this weekend, but it's I'm doing it for fun. I'm I can't push. I don't have it in my legs right now. It's not gonna happen. So I've I know, I know, weird, right? Tim: What? Weird. Ryan Head: I'm like, I've been running the last couple of days. I'm like, dude, that it's not there. Like there's there's nothing there. Like there is no kick. I'm like, well, I'm just gonna have a good time Tim: You Ryan Head: and let it be what it's gonna be. Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: And so I'm with you. Like I'm so looking forward to just easy fun runs, like go do our thing. And, you know, we'll do some group runs, invite people and whatnot. But I'm with you, man. I'm so excited just to be like, I just want to have fun. I don't want to think about it. I don't want to think too hard about this. So so looking forward to that. Tim: Yeah, I mean as much as I love, sorry, as much as I love training for things, it's nice to just get away for a little bit and just do whatever. Ryan Head: Dude, it's so awesome. So. Tim: Yeah. Ryan Head: Well cool. Last parting question I'll throw at ya. Cause why not? Because we always gotta make fun of Nate. Tim: I'm Ryan Head: Enya, dude. Like, what's your take Enya? Do you like Enya or are you? Dude, c dude, come on, bro. Like, I don't I don't know about that. Come on, dude. Like, I have s I have the Tim: I love Enya, I grew up with Enya. Enya is damn down. I'm down with Enya. Some orinocal flow or whatever. Ryan Head: Yeah, I have I have a lot of respect for you with r music, but bro, that's not gonna that doesn't help your standing. No, I'm just kidding. It's as you know, as so many of these episodes, we we're on this whole thing and Nate gets so much grief about being an Enya fan and listening to Enya on races. I mean he's like he's like prancing through the forest listening to to Enya on his hundreds and he he Tim: Thank you. Ryan Head: he'd get mad at me if he was here. He'd be like, I don't prance through the you know, he'd give me grief, but I'm like, what is it with you in like Enya and Mountains, dude. He's Well it's like Lord of the Rings. I'm dude, that's just weird, man. Like, I don't I don't know what you're doing. It's Tim: I like any, don't have any of it on my playlist though. Ryan Head: That's good. Smart. Good man. Yep. Tim: So yeah, but yeah, I grew up with it. My parents listened to it on repeat. Ryan Head: Mine too. Tim: I felt like growing up. So maybe that's why I like it. Ryan Head: Yeah, if I ever if I hear Sail Away one more time, I'm gonna lose my absolute mind. I'm not kidding. Like, I was the same way as you. Like, it was Tim: You Ryan Head: non-stop and I'm like, geez, like anyways, so that's awesome. Will Cole dude Tim: Yeah, that's funny. Ryan Head: Well, cool, dude. Thank you so much for coming on again, dude, and going over your two races. Like, I think this was really Tim: Yeah. Yeah, thank you. That was fun. Ryan Head: good. It's it's good to have you give feedback, tell how it went, go over some of the tactics that you employed, and just how your races went, dude. I think it's really cool to hear that from you and and for you to just be, you know, honest, you know, like wasn't the best of days, and maybe you didn't accomplish what you wanted, but you're also not gonna let this take you down and and keep you down for forever. So I appreciate the honesty. I appreciate you just sharing that. And I think it's gonna go a long way to help many people who you know, may especially those who went to St. George this year and maybe didn't accomplish what they wanted and they're beating themselves up right now because they feel like I'm not good enough and I put all this work in and you know, it's there's so much Tim: Yeah, no doubt. Ryan Head: more to life. There's so much more to life than running. And you know what? Running will always be there. Come back next year, try it again. You you're gonna be just fine. So, anyways. Tim: Yep. Yep. I mean, the weather could be perfect down in St. George next year and you just have an unbelievably fast marathon down there just because of the weather's just that little thing changes your mindset, everything like I just, it can change so much. So you never know. Ryan Head: Yep. Well I've been waiting for four years on I've been waiting four years for that on WAFSA and I still haven't got it yet. So maybe one day, maybe one day. Tim: We thought this was going to be it this year, but not quite. It was looking like it Ryan Head: Nope. Tim: early. Ryan Head: There was and then it switched yet again to being hot. So yay yay yay. So anyways, god. Yeah. Tim: Yeah. So here's what you do. Don't sign up for it this year and then the weather will be perfect. Ryan Head: I you you know how many times I think that that's exactly what I think. I'm like this will be the year it's good. I'm like, dude, I can't sign up. I have to sign up because this will be the year. And then I I Jacob always says that to me. Jacob's like, dude, if you Ryan Head signs up for a race, it's gonna be a hot race. I'm like, shut your mouth, dude. Like, don't put that crap into the universe. And he just laughs. So it's it's Tim: That's funny. Ryan Head: probab it's actually probably a hundred percent true. So anyways, Tim: That's funny. Ryan Head: but well cool, dude. Well we'll wrap up. Thank you so much again for coming on and sharing Tim: Yeah, thank you. That's fun. Ryan Head: your sharing. Sharing your race recaps, man. Tim: Yeah, thank you. Peace. Coach Ryan Head: Hey runner, thanks for hanging out with me today on Reimagine Running. I'm grateful you're here and a part of this great podcast. I just want to remind you, if you ever feel stuck and unsure or just want someone in your corner, I do offer coaching for runners at any distance, whether you're starting out with the 5K or you're chasing some crazy big goals and dreams like the marathon or the 100 miler, I'd love to help you. Please reach out and I'd be happy to set up a time to go over options and plans and goals with you. Well, until next time. Take care of yourself, trust the process, stay disciplined and keep chasing that Y.