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Nonprofit 411 with Andrew Cook – CEO of AHEAD Business Support · Nonprofit411 Podcast

0:03
Hello and welcome to the Nonprofit 411 podcast
0:06
where we explore resources and strategies to help
0:09
nonprofit organizations thrive.
0:11
I'm Sarah Barton and today I'm excited to
0:14
welcome Andrew Cook, CEO from AHEAD Business Support.
0:18
Welcome, Andrew.
0:19
Thank you, Sarah.
0:21
So can you tell me a little bit
0:24
about yourself and about your role at AHEAD
0:26
Business Support?
0:28
Sure.
0:29
I am the CEO and founder of AHEAD
0:32
Business Support and we help small businesses, including
0:35
nonprofits, untangle their HR knots and simplify their
0:40
systems so that they have an effective way
0:44
to locate, manage, and staff great people.
0:48
Awesome.
0:50
So, you know, Nonprofit 411 is really passionate
0:54
about sustainability of the nonprofit sector.
1:00
And when you and I met each other,
1:04
I realized, oh, this is such a valuable
1:07
resource that we really need to talk about
1:09
because human resources is often the largest expense
1:13
of nonprofit organizations and sometimes also the most
1:18
neglected area of nonprofit organizations, because maybe they're
1:23
a small staff or they don't think that
1:27
they have the capacity to invest in this.
1:30
So I'm so excited about just offering this
1:33
as a resource to nonprofits.
1:35
So can you tell me a little bit
1:38
about AHEAD Business Support and how it got
1:44
started and what you offer through your business?
1:49
Yeah.
1:51
So we got started a couple of years
1:54
ago, relatively new business, and really it was
1:58
born from, I was doing a similar role
2:01
for another company and all of my clients
2:05
were big, multi-million dollar tech startups, had
2:09
a lot of money.
2:11
And ultimately I kind of realized that my
2:14
why was missing this idea of taking my
2:19
skills, my background and benefiting somebody who really
2:25
had all of the cards stacked in their
2:29
favor anyway.
2:30
And I was working with businesses that had
2:32
60, 70, a hundred thousand, I'm sorry, a
2:35
hundred million dollars, just sitting there that they
2:38
were using to start up a business.
2:40
They didn't have a product, they didn't have
2:41
a website, didn't have anything.
2:43
And they had all this money based on
2:45
this wonderful idea that they pitched.
2:47
And I thought, man, there's, you know, I
2:51
live in a smaller community and there's something
2:54
kind of missing for that journey for me.
2:58
So I thought, I bet I can do
3:00
this for smaller companies, nonprofits as well, and
3:04
really make an impact.
3:06
And that really came partially from this idea
3:08
that if you look at the statistics, small
3:11
businesses, nonprofits, or for-profits really like past
3:15
the five-year mark are on this diminishing
3:19
slope of actually existing, right?
3:22
And the first big piece of that is
3:25
their working capital.
3:27
So whether they have enough money to keep
3:30
the business open over a long period of
3:33
time, but also the second most important piece
3:36
in that equation is experience.
3:39
And so I realize as I walk around
3:42
my community, my wife and I have watched
3:44
lots of businesses open and shut, lots of
3:47
nonprofits start up, provide some support, and then
3:50
the next day they're gone.
3:52
And, you know, while the money piece plays
3:55
a role, a lot of it is, you
3:57
know, people get into opening a business because
4:00
they have a passion.
4:02
Nonprofits are like that.
4:03
You know, I've seen nonprofits for, you know,
4:07
sons and daughters who've committed suicide and the
4:10
parents go out and they started a nonprofit
4:11
because they want to provide meaningful support to
4:15
those families that are in those situations.
4:17
But the passion to do a good thing
4:20
and having all the experience around the business
4:22
side of it are different, right?
4:24
So my thought was, hey, look, I want
4:29
to support those people that are in those
4:31
very passionate roles, but I want to give
4:35
them that experience that I've, you know, had
4:37
over a couple of decades of being in
4:39
the business world and help them be successful.
4:42
And the way that I would do that
4:44
is really through this idea of, you know,
4:46
can we identify your good employees?
4:50
Can we bring them in?
4:50
Can we train them?
4:51
Can we make sure that they have the
4:53
benefits that keep them around, keep them loyal
4:56
to your business, that give them a path
4:59
towards development and growth?
5:01
And really, can we also do that and
5:03
make it easy for you to use?
5:05
Can we make sure that it doesn't cost
5:07
you a bunch of money?
5:08
And the answer really that I found is,
5:10
yes, we can make all of that happen,
5:14
right?
5:14
Like, we can give those great resources and
5:17
ensure you're not just sort of hiring anybody
5:20
who applies, but, you know, you really understand
5:23
what are the skills that are needed, how
5:24
does this person plug into my organization, and
5:26
how do they augment and benefit, you know,
5:30
like what I bring to the table as
5:31
the, you know, the founder.
5:33
I've got all this passion, I've got this
5:35
direction, but now I need support and, you
5:38
know, like we're never meant to be everything.
5:41
So we all have unique skills that we
5:44
bring to the table.
5:45
I have there's a quote, and I think
5:47
it's usually accredited to like Albert Einstein, right?
5:49
And it's sort of like, if you asked
5:53
a fish to climb a tree, you would
5:56
think it was a terrible animal, right?
5:58
Because fish aren't meant to climb trees.
5:59
And that really, to me, explains who we
6:03
are as employees, that some employees are fish,
6:08
and we accidentally asked them to climb trees,
6:11
and then we get really frustrated that they're
6:12
not good at it.
6:13
And then sometimes we find a fish, and
6:16
we're like, this is your giant ocean that
6:18
you swim in, and they're really good at
6:20
it.
6:21
But those things aren't always super obvious, right?
6:25
So that's the, that's my superpower.
6:28
That's what I bring to the is helping
6:31
businesses have the right processes.
6:34
How do they select people?
6:35
How do we keep that affordable for them
6:37
so that they can sustain, like you said,
6:40
that process moving forward?
6:43
Yes.
6:44
Oh, you have given so many good thoughts
6:46
already.
6:47
Yeah.
6:48
So I agree.
6:49
I always say that nonprofits are often started
6:52
by very passionate people who want to change
6:54
the world.
6:56
But they are really just like any other
7:00
business owner at the beginning, they're owning a
7:03
business, and it has a lot of components.
7:06
And a lot of times, they don't realize
7:09
that when they start the nonprofit, and so
7:11
they have to learn it as they go
7:12
along.
7:14
And I really love kind of what you
7:17
said about this is, this is more science
7:21
than guessing, right?
7:24
And so there are sciences in each of
7:26
these areas, and human resource is, it's human
7:30
resources, is definitely an area that there are
7:35
things that are proved and true and make
7:38
it possible to, you know, be successful.
7:41
And so so I'm so grateful that, you
7:48
know, you have this that you're offering to
7:52
the world, because I do think it's, it's
7:54
so important.
7:55
So tell me, you know, tell me a
7:59
little bit about when you work with nonprofits
8:03
and small organizations, what are some of those
8:07
big things like out of the bucket that
8:09
you typically see?
8:11
Oh, we can immediately improve this situation by
8:16
what is that thing usually?
8:21
Really, so one, I'll say, we always start
8:24
with an audit, we always go in, we
8:26
look at all of the systems that are
8:28
actually in place, we evaluate how effective they
8:33
are being at fulfilling their individual missions, that
8:36
there are things that are missing.
8:39
Nonprofits are a little interesting compared to normal
8:41
businesses, because, you know, like as a business
8:44
gets larger and larger, you start to fall
8:47
under, you know, more and more regulation under
8:49
federal laws, right?
8:51
And so you start to worry about compliance.
8:54
And it's not that, you know, like small
8:56
businesses and nonprofits don't have compliance issues, they
8:59
need to worry about, you know, like, hey,
9:01
you may not pay taxes, but you have
9:03
to file taxes, you still have like, you
9:06
know, like, there are things that we're responsible
9:08
for, right?
9:09
In the human resource world, it's the same
9:11
way.
9:12
So I think that payroll tends to be
9:15
one.
9:18
Payroll for all kinds of businesses tends to
9:20
be this like, there's a mystery behind it.
9:25
And I think it's because of that crossover
9:26
with taxes, that, you know, businesses are either
9:30
not aware of what they need to pay
9:31
into payroll and what payroll taxes they're responsible
9:35
for, or they pay a lot of money
9:37
to have somebody else just do it, just
9:38
take it off their plate.
9:39
And the reality is, is that a lot
9:42
like, like, I file my taxes online, just
9:47
into it.
9:50
Oh, why can't I think of the name
9:52
of the TurboTax?
9:53
Yeah.
9:53
So, you know, like, in the payroll world,
9:56
there are, there are systems that are sort
9:58
of the effective equivalent of TurboTax, right?
10:00
Like, you can do it, it will guide
10:03
you.
10:04
But it'll help you save some money, and
10:07
it'll still make sure that you're safe and
10:08
that you're, you're filing everything that you're supposed
10:10
to file.
10:11
But, you know, like, if you're just, hey,
10:14
I need to, I know I need to
10:15
pay people, there's, you know, my accountant, well,
10:17
that becomes really expensive right away.
10:21
The other one is hiring.
10:23
I think most people just sort of assume
10:25
that, you know, we post a job in
10:29
the Help Wanted section on, you know, this
10:31
website or that site, and people will send
10:34
us resumes.
10:35
And I just, you know, I pick one
10:36
and we interview, and then I hire you,
10:38
right?
10:38
And then that sounds like a very simple
10:40
process, until we start to realize all of
10:43
the things that go into it.
10:45
And then, like I said, you know, do
10:46
you have a job description that this person
10:48
is applying to, right?
10:50
What are they applying to?
10:51
How do you know what you want this
10:53
person to do?
10:54
What skills are you specifically looking for?
10:56
And then, you know, I can use my
11:00
experience to help pre-filter those.
11:03
And while it sounds like, I want to
11:06
pay Andrew to just read some resumes, the
11:08
reality is, you know, I have clients that
11:11
I do recruiting campaigns for, and I might
11:15
screen 120 applicants, right?
11:19
And so you assume that of 120 applicants,
11:22
each one takes me, we'll call it five
11:25
minutes, right?
11:26
And so you see how like this blooms
11:29
into a lot of time.
11:31
And the business owner, the nonprofit business owner,
11:36
doesn't realize like, hey, but if I'm spending
11:39
all this time, there's something else that I'm
11:42
not doing.
11:43
And ultimately, as an owner, as an employee
11:45
within the organization, the big thing that you're
11:48
really responsible for is driving the mission forward,
11:51
right?
11:51
Like keep you focused.
11:53
And if that is, hey, we need to
11:54
go out and we need to ask for
11:57
donations.
11:57
If you're spending five minutes times 120 applicants,
12:03
that's time that you could be using on
12:06
the phone to talk to potential donors.
12:08
You could be out at meetings to talk
12:09
to potential donors, you know, and that's the
12:12
way that you're going to generate revenue.
12:15
Reviewing resumes is not going to be the
12:17
way that you create value within your organization
12:20
as that founder owner.
12:23
So I see that, hey, we speed up
12:26
the time to hire because rather than seeing
12:29
120 and like trying to compare all of
12:33
that in your head, you get, you know,
12:35
hey, I give you the 10 best, right?
12:38
And I give you notes on this is
12:39
what I like.
12:40
This is what I saw.
12:41
This is where I think the potential is.
12:43
These are the questions I would ask in
12:45
a hiring interview.
12:46
You ultimately do all the interviewing, you make
12:49
your selection.
12:50
And I've found that that's an incredibly efficient
12:54
process.
12:55
Even if you have to pay me a
12:57
little bit of money to handle some of
12:59
that early work for you, the getting those
13:02
really, really good candidates for some of my
13:06
clients, they went from two, three, four weeks
13:11
to find a good person to literally like
13:13
three or five days.
13:15
So we've cut their spending.
13:19
I think half to a third of what
13:21
they were paying.
13:23
I've seen people that use like staffing agencies
13:25
or they were just trying to do it
13:27
themselves.
13:28
And it really is a place where we
13:29
can save a lot of time.
13:31
The other big one is getting in and
13:34
creating policies just so people know what we're
13:38
supposed to do, right?
13:39
So if you're going to hire a new
13:40
employee, we really want to be able to
13:42
train them.
13:42
We want to be able to say, this
13:43
is how we do business here at our
13:46
nonprofit.
13:47
And a lot of that's just getting things
13:50
documented.
13:51
It's codifying it, making sure it's on paper,
13:54
but that can be difficult to do as
13:57
well, right?
13:58
It's just that it's one more thing that
14:00
somebody needs to do, but how much easier
14:04
is it for us to say like, hey,
14:06
what's the time off policy?
14:08
Oh, we have that.
14:09
Here's where you find that, right?
14:12
And then going all the way back to
14:14
the payroll system, and here's how you submit
14:16
for it, and here's how we track it,
14:18
and here's how you accrue it.
14:20
Having all of that takes you from, hey,
14:24
I'm just a guy who's passionate about whatever,
14:28
preserving fruit trees, to having what I call
14:32
like a grown-up business that pays their
14:35
people, and supports them through benefits, and has
14:40
policies that are clearly outlined, people know what
14:42
they're supposed to do.
14:44
And a lot of times we just get
14:46
frustrated with others because they're not clear on
14:50
what we expect from them.
14:53
So being able to manage performance, right?
14:58
So if I want to tell somebody this
15:01
is what would make you a good employee
15:03
for my business, and this is how we
15:05
measure it, and this is how often we
15:06
talk about it, I want you to know
15:09
as the business owner, I want you to
15:11
know what that is.
15:12
I don't want you to go years without
15:14
ever evaluating anybody, and then the first time
15:17
that you do have to talk to somebody
15:19
is because you're incredibly frustrated, and you feel
15:21
like you're in that termination cycle now, right?
15:25
Like I'm just so frustrated with Johnny because
15:29
he's not doing what I asked him to
15:30
do, I need to fire him.
15:32
Well, if that's the first time you and
15:34
I talk, my questions are, what is the
15:37
process for correcting that behavior?
15:39
How does Johnny know that he's not doing
15:41
the right thing?
15:42
Yeah, yeah.
15:43
And so, you know, like I, in my
15:46
HR brain, I see all of these little
15:48
switches and levers, and I don't want the
15:51
business owner to know all of those things.
15:54
What I want them to know is, hey,
15:56
here is the process that I'm going to
16:00
monthly, I'm going to record your progress, this
16:04
is how I record your progress, this is
16:06
where I go to get that data, and
16:08
this is how I know that you're successful
16:09
or not successful, and this is what the
16:11
conversation looks like, and then they just get
16:14
into that cycle, right?
16:15
Because they don't have to think about it
16:18
or stress about whether or not we are
16:21
at the point where we need to fire
16:22
Johnny.
16:23
We know what that process looks like from
16:25
day one, Johnny didn't do the right thing,
16:27
all the way up to the end, right?
16:29
It's very easy to have that conversation, and
16:33
I've found, you know, Johnny even knows what's
16:37
coming all the way at the end because
16:38
he's had, you know, those prior conversations.
16:41
Somebody actually sat down with him, somebody showed
16:43
him the data on paper here, you know,
16:45
like you did not make enough phone calls
16:47
to donors this month, this is the expected
16:50
metric, you didn't get there, and that sounds,
16:54
you know, you know, I'm passionate about, you
16:58
know, saving fruit trees, I know, but, you
17:02
know, this is how we make sure that
17:03
your business stays healthy, thriving, you know, that
17:07
all of your employees are doing what they
17:09
can to support your mission and your vision,
17:12
right?
17:12
And that's not really going to happen if
17:16
people are not held accountable, they don't know
17:18
how to do their job well, they're not
17:20
trained appropriately, they don't know the tools that
17:24
are available to them.
17:25
And so, yeah, I think that hiring somebody
17:29
like me and, you know, like the easier
17:31
place for most people to get to it
17:33
is in taxes, right?
17:35
Because we instantly look at taxes and go,
17:37
I need an accountant.
17:39
But really, there are so many like small
17:43
functional areas within businesses that owners should be
17:47
thinking right away, I need, you know, an
17:50
HR person, an accountant, I need a tech
17:53
person, I need an IT person who can
17:55
help me with my website and my computers.
17:57
And I need somebody to help me with
18:00
capital campaigns.
18:02
I need somebody to help, you know, bring
18:04
in money.
18:05
How do I get it?
18:06
Where does it come from?
18:06
Who's the who are the people that are
18:08
passionate about the thing I'm passionate about?
18:10
How do they give me money?
18:13
Lots and lots of help.
18:16
And I think the, the myth that, you
18:18
know, we should be able to go out
18:19
and do all that ourselves, or the delusion
18:23
might be too nasty of a word.
18:25
But you know, like, if we are tricked
18:27
into believing that just passion behind something will
18:31
make it work, I think that that's a
18:35
really rough road.
18:36
And it's not impossible.
18:37
But it's just it's, it's difficult.
18:40
And it doesn't keep people in that space
18:43
where they are really passionate about things, because
18:46
they're always rushing around trying to, you know,
18:49
keep the plate spinning, rather than going the
18:52
journey and in getting to feel good about
18:55
the good work that they do, right.
18:57
And you and I talked about, you know,
18:59
small nonprofits have this maybe immeasurable, outsized impact
19:08
on the communities that they serve.
19:10
You know, I, I talked to my normal
19:13
business clients about, you know, I work in
19:15
communities where one restaurant closes up because they
19:21
can't keep the doors open.
19:23
And that community loses 33% of all
19:27
of the restaurants in town.
19:29
Yeah, yeah.
19:30
And you could imagine Chicago, New York, Los
19:33
Angeles, and you close a third of all
19:36
the restaurants in town.
19:37
That one restaurant really has such a bigger
19:42
impact on their community.
19:43
That one nonprofit has such a bigger impact
19:47
on their community, because you pull that safety
19:50
net away that one resource.
19:52
And suddenly the community is decimated of those
19:56
resources.
19:58
So it is really important that, you know,
20:01
those smaller businesses who don't have access to
20:04
an internal CEO, a CFO, you know, a
20:08
CIO, that they have access to somebody like
20:11
me, like you, to help them stay on
20:15
their feet, because it matters.
20:17
It really does.
20:18
Yeah.
20:18
Well, yeah.
20:20
And I think, you know, you, you mentioned
20:21
a couple of things in my work with
20:24
nonprofits.
20:26
I do think that growth is very organic.
20:31
And, you know, so sometimes we don't realize
20:33
we're growing, but we are growing.
20:35
We add that extra person.
20:37
And maybe the first time we add a
20:40
person, we're really aligned and we're capable of,
20:44
you know, maybe doing some of these things
20:47
a little less formally.
20:48
But then as the organization continues to grow,
20:51
we try to continue the informal, you know,
20:55
processes and it doesn't work.
20:56
It doesn't, it's not scalable.
20:58
Right.
20:58
And so having these processes and policies in
21:02
place helps make it scalable.
21:05
The other thing that you mentioned that I
21:08
really resonated with for nonprofits is that, well,
21:15
you kind of mentioned, you know, having them
21:18
in place so that if we have to
21:21
fire Johnny, we have, you know, everything in
21:24
place to be able to do that.
21:25
But the goal really is to be able
21:28
to equip and empower our employees so that
21:32
we can keep them for a really long
21:35
time.
21:35
And with burnout being so high amongst nonprofit
21:40
leaders and employees, you know, I think that
21:44
is so vital that we provide for our
21:49
staff and we equip them with everything that
21:53
they need for success and that we're really
21:55
open to having those processes.
21:59
I think processes help alleviate a lot of
22:04
stress for employees because then they're sure, right,
22:06
then they're sure of what they need to
22:08
do and they're sure of when they're successful.
22:12
And so, you know, I think that that's
22:14
a really, that's a really great point.
22:16
Now, I want to make sure that we
22:18
talk about something that you and I talked
22:20
about the last time that we met, but
22:23
I think is really, really vital for nonprofits
22:26
to hear and that's benefits because benefits in
22:30
the nonprofit world, you know, it's a huge
22:34
expense and it's a real challenge to find
22:38
competitive options just out there in the world
22:41
for businesses.
22:44
And you told me that you actually have
22:46
a solopreneur, you know, a person who's just
22:50
a party of one and you helped him
22:53
with benefits.
22:55
I would love to just have a little
22:57
chat about benefits because this is an area
22:59
that I believe nonprofits just need to learn
23:02
more about.
23:03
You know, they may think that they just
23:05
absolutely can't afford them.
23:07
And while that may be true, maybe there
23:09
are some options out there that do make
23:11
this affordable or doable, or maybe you have
23:14
seen some other really creative solutions to benefits.
23:20
Yeah.
23:21
So, I mean, I, A, I think it's,
23:23
that's a great conversation.
23:25
One, because the, you know, like when all
23:30
of these organizations send out a human resource
23:32
or employee satisfaction surveys, right, they're all over
23:36
the place.
23:36
And largely what we see is something like
23:39
pay doesn't typically come in at the top
23:42
level for like what keeps somebody in a
23:45
position or what attracts somebody to a position.
23:48
It usually is benefits.
23:49
That's the piece of the puzzle that sort
23:52
of all things being equal, people would rather
23:54
have better benefits and a little less pay.
23:58
They're willing to make that trade-off.
24:00
And yeah.
24:01
So, I'm not a benefits broker and that
24:03
actually puts me in a really nice place
24:05
because I get to advocate on behalf of
24:10
my clients rather than being worried about what
24:14
I take away.
24:16
You know, like what's my, my pay or
24:17
my cut out of that negotiation.
24:20
Right.
24:21
But because I have almost two decades worth
24:25
of negotiating benefits packages or putting packages together
24:29
and seeing the creative ways that people can
24:31
get some, some benefits or some coverage that
24:35
it really has allowed me to look at,
24:39
you know, something like, Hey, yeah, I've got
24:41
one guy who's all by himself.
24:43
He's, he's, he needs benefits, right.
24:46
He and his wife need benefits that I
24:49
can go out and I can start asking
24:51
those questions and talk to people who can
24:53
get him those benefits under some really creative
24:55
programs out there.
24:57
Really far too many to talk about specifically,
25:00
but I can say, right.
25:02
Like that, if you had a nonprofit and
25:05
they were looking at how can we add
25:07
some benefits that are really meaningful?
25:10
One, you know, I think it's actually really
25:12
important to ask your people what benefits they
25:15
need.
25:15
Because what you may find is that if
25:19
your employees are largely second bread earners or
25:22
second earners in the family, that they may
25:26
not necessarily need the major medical insurance, but
25:29
maybe their primary doesn't carry dental or vision
25:34
insurance, or maybe they really just need something
25:38
that is sort of like a health reimbursement
25:41
account.
25:42
It's not coverage, but it helps to bridge
25:46
the gap on sort of higher deductible plans.
25:49
And there are some things that we can,
25:51
you know, a company can offer even semi
25:54
self-insured that the company just puts some
25:57
money aside and pays the, you know, pays
25:59
sort of those plans independently.
26:01
And then there's a, you know, the insurance
26:04
above and beyond that, if something really catastrophic
26:07
happens.
26:08
So there are, there are really, really great
26:10
ways getting involved in organizations like a chamber
26:16
of commerce.
26:16
Like sometimes they offer really, really good benefit
26:19
packages that just get overlooked because most people
26:22
just think like, Hey, we're a business, we're
26:24
going to have like a normal group plan.
26:27
And really most insurance companies are happy to
26:31
write that because they're probably going to be
26:32
pretty expensive in the grand scheme of things.
26:35
But yeah, that's a great conversation.
26:38
Certainly one that if you've had, you know,
26:40
had a listener that really wanted to talk
26:42
about that, that I would love to just
26:46
talk with them, meet with them.
26:48
You know, like for me, those conversations are
26:50
largely free.
26:51
I want to be a connector, right?
26:52
Like that's, that's where I provide value.
26:56
And really that's, it's not a large outpouring
26:59
of my time, but I can connect them
27:02
to a really good broker who can talk
27:06
about some of those lesser known plans or,
27:09
or just is willing to listen to what
27:11
you want or need rather than, you know,
27:15
if you call Anthem Blue Cross, they, they're
27:19
going to tell you what size foot you
27:21
have, because they have a certain size shoe
27:23
to give you, right.
27:24
And it's not always the best approach, especially
27:28
with really small businesses or nonprofits that are
27:30
really trying to be good stewards of that
27:33
money, because ultimately most of that money should
27:36
be going to support their, you know, their
27:38
population or their mission rather than necessarily their
27:41
people, even if people end up being expensive.
27:43
Well, and I, I think it's really important
27:46
for nonprofits to know that there are options
27:48
out there because sometimes we assume that there
27:50
just aren't options available, but that's, that's great.
27:53
So I would encourage any of our listeners,
27:55
you know, if, if benefits is something that
27:57
you haven't had conversations about, but you're interested
28:01
in learning about, that would be a great
28:03
one.
28:03
The other thing is that I think, you
28:06
know, there are some really creative strategies out
28:08
there and you're right.
28:09
If, if insurance, health insurance is not the
28:13
primary need, I actually had a guest on
28:17
Sean from the nonprofit fixer who talked about,
28:22
you know, the four day work week, like
28:26
for him, it was like time off, you
28:28
know?
28:29
So there's a lot of great options out
28:31
there that can, can be really positive.
28:35
Yeah.
28:35
And that's a great, you know, like we
28:37
typically think of benefits as being the major
28:40
medical, the eye, the vision, the health insurance,
28:42
the life insurance.
28:43
But, you know, like you said, sometimes flexibility
28:47
is a really good benefit.
28:50
Sometimes, you know, more time off that we,
28:53
that's why I think that early, like asking
28:55
people what they need is so important because
28:59
you'll, they'll tell you what's going to be
29:02
most valuable to them.
29:04
And that, you know, like that idea that
29:07
somebody's willing to listen to me and give
29:10
me what I asked for is a really
29:12
powerful motivator for staying put.
29:15
Right.
29:15
Like if you know that the conversation that
29:17
you can have, that is a motivation to
29:20
be loyal.
29:21
Yeah.
29:22
Yeah.
29:23
Yeah.
29:23
So thank you for all of the insight.
29:25
I do hope that, you know, our nonprofits
29:28
listening, you know, just take a little bit
29:30
of time and consider human resources for their
29:33
organization.
29:34
I just know that it's often a topic
29:37
of sustainability that is left out of the
29:40
conversation, but it's such a vital resource before
29:44
we exit.
29:45
Is there any last advice or last thoughts
29:48
that you'd like to share with the listeners?
29:51
No, I don't have any final thoughts other
29:53
than hey, I really appreciate you having me
29:57
on Sarah.
29:58
And I.