Latest / The Director's Chair Network / Pawn Sacrifice
Transcript
- 0:04 [Music] [Applause] 0:14 [Music] 0:26 hello and welcome to another episode of zwix flicks the Ed zwick podcast I'm your host Ryan and I have with me 0:32 returning guest host and online friend one day meet in real life friend Craig 0:38 how you doing good Ryan Ryan thank you so much before we get started I got a little bit of a surprise for you please 0:44 because when we talked way back on The Last Samurai episode you were shocked and geod to learn a fact about me and 0:51 Ed's Wick and I want to tell you that it's been remedied about a month ago Target did one of their semiannual buy 0:58 to get one free books music DVD sales nice so I grabbed the glory 4K nice 4K 1:08 wow yeah but yeah so I just wanted to let you know that I remedied that issue now I can say that I've watched you got 1:15 to give us your quick your quick zwick review what did you think I liked it and I got to say that even knowing all the 1:22 behind the scenes with Matthew bradrick I thought he turned in a good performance and I thought his character 1:29 in the film of a perfect amount of time a lot of the issues his mom had I didn't seem to find and that was stuff I was 1:35 acutely aware of while I was watching it I knew the behind the scenes history from the episode you and and Doug did 1:41 and I was looking for it I'm like it's not there you could almost argue that edwick knew what he was doing one thing about watching war movies is always 1:49 seeing how the filmmaker handles War the realities of war the the horrors of war 1:58 the moment where he he died Robert dies it wasn't Grand I mean of course he's 2:03 picking up the flag to but there's no bravado with the camera work or anything 2:09 it's just be shot a couple of times and that's it and then what almost the last 2:14 shot is his body just being disposed of like it's nothing and that was the idea 2:21 though he was part of the black burial yeah he was considered to be black Accord to the enemy there's lots of 2:27 filmmakers that I don't think would have hit as hard as Wick did that was one of the things watching 2:33 this movie man it good war movies make you understand the sacrifice that people 2:39 made when they went to war but then it also just makes you see how pointless it is sometimes like you know it is it is 2:45 point it's rid it's actually ridiculous it's actually ridiculous what they're doing it's the whole thing's ridiculous I agree yeah I'm glad you you shamed me 2:52 when we talked and it's cool that I had it that I was able to add it to the collection and in 4k it looked great 2:57 there was I've never seen in 4K yeah a lot of people talk about with 4K is like film 3:03 grain was there any on this yes there was a nice layer of film grain it was very uh very nice and there's some good 3:09 special features there's actually Ed likes the special features yes it comes with the 4K and the Blu-ray the Blu-ray 3:15 just has a regular director's commentary but the 4K has a video 3:21 commentary with Wick Matthew bradick and Morgan Freeman I've seen it they took 3:27 that from you'll see them they're much younger version of themselves when they came out on DVD they had that for just 3:32 for the DVD version back then so it's a pitcher and picture so you see their faces pop up like a little corner that's 3:38 kind of what they did there but yeah I like it yeah neat and then also one other note on the last of the action 3:44 heroes podcast Network we talked about FX a couple of probably a year or two 3:49 ago one of the Bad Dudes from FX was in this movie he was one of the Union sold 3:55 he was the dick that told his soldiers to burn down the town yeah what was his name again cliff younger something like 4:01 that and he was in a psyrock band in the 60s too that's right I think we got a such but as soon as I saw him I was like 4:08 that's the dude from FX that's right the one thing though is that dude's mustache it didn't convince me oh fair enough 4:15 yeah you know well it's funny because you watch like Tombstone right you you know the classic Western Tombstone and 4:22 like one of the famous things about that movie is all the mustaches in that movie were real CTS was real yeah I'm not sure 4:29 about mascara but the mustache is real and in glory I was like there were times where you could tell you're like yeah 4:34 that's not real facial hair like you know guy couldn't spend I mean I couldn't grow a mustache like that so I 4:39 mean there's no no I can't either mine would be fake mine would be fake no I like hearing your review because I well 4:45 one I value your opinion I think you're very when it comes to movies you're very of sound mind I've done more than my 4:52 fair share of movies reviews with you and I I very rarely would say not that I disagree with you I think we'll have 4:57 different levels of maybe likes or dis regarding films but very rarely am I like I don't see what you're seeing even 5:04 if I don't agree with your outlook or your review of a film you're always well 5:09 spoken about it it's well resar like yeah like it's like okay I get what you're saying I understand what you're saying so speaking of that do you have 5:15 anything you want to plug I know you're Brian to Palma it's been quiet lately no I took off most of the fall uh because I 5:22 I just knew I wouldn't be able to commit to it but in starting in 2025 I don't this episode's probably going to drop 5:28 what mid January by then I there should be new episodes out I think the first 5:33 one's going to be an interview episode that I'm really excited about and then I after that I think the show is going to 5:39 go in a little bit of a different direction until um I'm able to sort of wrangle some guests again you let me 5:44 know yeah yeah no absolutely because I'll probably do a couple of solo shows focusing on movies that I think people 5:50 just don't want to talk about so I like the hard assignments give me a hard assignment there's a channel on YouTube 5:56 called the dama archives what they've done and nobody seems to care about this 6:02 is they've put all the Brian dep movies that are not readily available to stream 6:08 or that never hit DVD the Channel's been up for years it's just one of those things where they're like hey we're 6:14 going to get money anyway but whoever owns those rights doesn't care so most of his early pre Phantom of The Paradise 6:21 movies a couple of post Phantom of The Paradise movies are on the archives so I'll definitely hit you up because I was 6:27 give me a hard one give me yeah give me a hard on and I love those type of films that's what I want well the funny thing about dama is a lot of people credit 6:35 Martin scari with Robert Dao's career but dairo did some of his earliest works 6:42 with dama good old Bobby D that show is easy enough to find if you just search Brian dama podcast or the goat dama you 6:49 have a link tree yes what I always do so folks I'm going to link under Craig's 6:54 name or next to his name the whole link tree so you just go there right now'll have everything you've done do did will 7:00 do I got to build one myself it's ridiculous you've told me to do this too yeah know it's fun because then it's a 7:05 single point of contact somebody links and then you can also add stuff that you might not vocally or verbally plug but 7:12 it's like hey here look at if they want to yeah yeah here's my you know my pot roast recipe or whatever you know sure I 7:18 know I got to work on it all right we talk between episodes that we record together because you know we're friends 7:23 we share things links whatever we might find but you know we were just touching Bas to make sure the recording was still 7:28 good to go for this date and the time you made a quick comment and which we rarely do we try to save it for the show 7:34 if you're a podcaster you try to save all comments you know you want to react to the person you're podcasting with in 7:40 real time you don't want to act it out you want to have real reactions to their thoughts or feelings you sent me a 7:45 comment regarding the film that not say raise a red flag it raised my eyebrows I would oh okay and I can't wait to dive 7:52 into this movie with you regarding that comment and I I won't even say what the comment is because we'll we'll just 7:57 discuss the film as we always do to discuss when the film came out yeah some of the big players in the film and what it's about and of course our feelings on 8:04 the film there will be quote unquote spoilers all that good stuff what's kind of sad I think something that people 8:09 enjoy when they listen to the show Craig and I think my podcast host at the least when they've recorded with me they've enjoyed the audio book from Ed's Wick at 8:17 the end of the episode they enjoy it oh wow does he not talk about this in his book it's sad because it reflects the 8:25 you know we got the glory we got this big talk about Last Samurai and Legend is the fall whole chapter's dedicated 8:31 the title of the chapter was literally called was called Pawn sacrifice Jack Reacher 2 Tri by fire his last three 8:39 feature films and that was the name of the chapter so then I'm listening to the chapter to cut the parts out for the episode that we're going to record today 8:45 we're like now 15 minutes into the 25 minute chapter he hasn't even referenced those three films the chapter is titled 8:52 after yeah so like oh that's not good and then of course at the end of this episode we will play his portion of the 8:59 Pawn sacrifice well it's interesting and I think there's parallels with dama here 9:05 both of them reached points in their careers where I don't know if financing became an issue or their interest in 9:12 making certain kinds of films changed he kind of acknowledged that the films this 9:18 came out 2014 so Pawn sacrifice came out 2014 what was kind of the big films at that time what was peing around that 9:24 time to be honest with you well all the Marvel movies right that's right that's right so he mentioned that he wasn't anything disparaging like Mars gors he 9:31 did with calling those films not films we know that famous quote that he did but Ed basically said you know times 9:37 change audiences change he didn't do Legends of the Fall Or Glory or Last Samurai type films anymore not because 9:44 he didn't enjoy them not because they didn't make money but audiences aren't going to those anymore they're more flocking to them the way they used to 9:49 look at Kevin coster's latest Western film I haven't seen it yet I want to see it I love Kevin CER I love westerns but 9:55 people aren't flocking the way they used to back in the early 90s or the 70s with those films unfortunately you have to 10:01 follow the money you know Studios don't put up money where they used to you're making smaller intimate films which Pawn 10:07 sacrifice is now the question will be is it a good film we'll get into that I almost cut out what he was talking about 10:12 regarding where he was in his career at this time but I didn't just because I'm trying to just stick to the films we're 10:18 talking about not just Ed Wick as a director because I want to you know I want to plug his book I don't want to put his whole book on YouTube I 10:24 recommend people to listen to his book and to hear his thoughts because it was very engaging what he was saying where 10:30 he was at in his career and why he was at in his career unfortunately the films and I'm hoping these last three films 10:36 this one Pawn sacrifice Jack Reacher 2 and of course trial by fire the last three films of his feature films that 10:41 we'll be talking about is it a reflection of I want say downward spr is not the right word but I hope it's not 10:47 that this movie you know we talk about budgets but while watching it I was like what was the music licensing Budget on 10:54 this because they used right tons of period specific well known music that 11:00 had to be hundreds of thousand of dollars of the budget have you heard of prices i' imagine the the licensing 11:07 rights for White Rabbit have to be pretty pretty high sure I would estimate the music budget for this had to be in 11:13 the probably half a million maybe well the budget of the film was $19 million 11:18 that's still a healthy budget to work with it's a healthy budget Pawn sacrifices a 2014 American biographical 11:25 psychological drama film about Bobby fiser now most of our listeners should know who Bobby Fischer is but if you 11:31 don't Bobby fiser was a this is a true story again was a chess grandm and the 11th world champion it 11:39 follows fer challenge against top Soviet chess Grand Masters during the Cold War and culminating in the film The World 11:45 Chess Championship of 1972 where he played Boris spasy I was very intrigued 11:51 and actually I would say I was excited to see the film because it's about chess chess is not generally speaking it's not really an engaging topic unless you're 11:57 chess look I suspect fact if you like chess you probably would really like this film I know how to play chess do 12:03 you know how to play chess I used to it was it was funny when I was watching this movie I remember like the way that 12:09 each piece is able to move but I didn't really remember a lot of the strategy 12:15 behind it and I was never a good chess player by any stretch I know how to play like I actually know how to I I suck at 12:20 it but half a chess is just knowing what you're allowed to do and what the consequences of your moves are so the 12:27 term Pawn sacrifice did you guess what that might mean in in the world of Chess well yeah you're giving up a weaker 12:32 piece to advance your position and potentially get a bigger reward 12:39 sacrifice is to give up something for something greater and so you're sacrificing your Pawn for a greater move 12:44 now I know how to play chess but I don't know the grids but we see throughout the film they talk about the grids you know 12:50 whatever it is G5 to rd4 whatever it is but I recognize those represent the squares and so the idea that chess could 12:57 be played verbally was kind of fascinating to see you know he was prepping with Skarsgard and there's a 13:03 great moment where scarizard Peter Skarsgard he's not part of the Skarsgard family but he's got that name sarsgard 13:12 sarsgard yeah he's talking about like how there's a certain amount of opening moves after those opening moves there's 13:19 more potential moves than there are stars in the galaxy or something cuz there are only so many pieces and there 13:25 are only so many ways the pieces can move and that's the hardest part about Chess when I played it when I was I was younger was those first couple moves is 13:31 like do you move the pawn here or that pawn there or do you jump over with the Knight but these guys are so good 13:38 they're they play games themselves Craig that's how they oh yeah yeah that's weird to me another like outrageous 13:43 moment in the movie and I didn't compare this to the real life games but what in two of the games fiser does an opening 13:51 movie he had never done before right and it throws the Russians for a complete 13:56 Loop because they're like wow all the prep work we did you know stud tap they study the tapes 14:02 yeah exactly but you can say oh he did this move this is how the game goes from there I guess it's like plotting out a 14:08 course on a map like you can pontificate based on an opening move well I guess it's just like any sport I mean there 14:15 was worldwide sports was actually covering these games even though it's not the sport it's a sport of a mind 14:20 it's not a physical sport but I guess sport just means that sport as a competition you know yeah and and I got 14:25 to say that as as good of a job as they they did trying to 14:31 keep the viewer sort of aware of what was going on I I I think you still 14:37 needed to have a pretty solid grasp of the game in order to understand it well that's what I mean I I know the game 14:43 well enough that I was never lost I played a lot as a kid I I wasn't part of the chess club but right now I could 14:49 play the game I don't need to be reminded of the rules I used to think chess was a common knowledge I thought everyone knew how to play chess it's kind of like everyone knows how to play 14:55 Go Fish right so I thought that but I guess not everyone knows how to play play and the problem with this film so I 15:01 agree with you so the problem with this film is the subject matter is such that the game is a big part of the movie it 15:08 is a true story we're going to get into the the actors and the characters they played so we'll talk about those characters and some of their 15:14 developments in the film but the chess is the playground metaphorically that 15:20 this whole movie plays on is is the chess game and understanding it so one thing I didn't ever consider was like I 15:26 said before was you're able to practice chess verbally then that's a fascinating 15:31 aspect because you can't practice hockey verbally in the sense you can talk about the game saying hey next time where you 15:37 know next time buddy comes on the ice and he's going to do XYZ make sure you come out that's what the coaches do on the bench they talk you know they talk 15:43 strategy with the guys but that can't be your whole practice that but chess has 15:49 this fascinating ability where you can do a lot just by talking it's it's amazing that you can formulate these 15:55 plans just by walking down the street together my biggest problem with this movie is it ends with what probably a 16:05 three to five minute recap of Bobby Fisher's life after yeah the the match 16:11 in 72 and the whole time I'm watching that and I and I sort of remember his reemergence I was old enough to remember 16:17 it I lived in in the New York area at the time but the whole time I'm watching that I'm like this is the movie that 16:24 zwick should have made that that was the meteor story to me you know a guy you know sort of ort of reemerging from a 16:30 self-imposed semi in you know semi forced whatever seclusion and and he's 16:36 lost his mind man that's the movie I wanted to watch the other problem I have with this movie is Fisher's not a 16:43 likable character and that's the hardest thing to do I mean you can make movie about challenging people I I don't know 16:50 if it just wasn't framed correctly because he felt like he wasn't financed 16:55 as well as the Russians and it was kind of like the underdog versus the superpower but he came off as whiny and and 17:02 unlikable and for me if I can't connect at all with the character 17:08 it's just really hard for me to really care no you're you're absolutely right 17:13 you can make a film but but unlikable characters I didn't come prepared to give examples of such such a film I'm 17:20 just trying to think of one at the top of my head where somebody is quote unquote unlikable but it's an engaging 17:25 story I see here's the thing like you I didn't know Bobby Fisher I didn't know him I I knew that he was a chess Prodigy 17:32 that he played this game at at the level that he did so I did learn things and 17:38 like you I agree they should have started the film with the final match 17:43 now imagine if that was the beginning of the film so right away you're already there with Bobby 17:49 fiser winning the championship against Bas so that's the beginning and then we 17:54 see cuz you're right the whole epilogue at the end of the film with the real foot footage with him escaping being 18:01 like the the US was arresting him for playing illegal chess having these passports now granted we see in the film 18:07 he's listening to conspiracy tapes like he's basically on X in the film yeah yeah like listening to all these Jones 18:14 type tapes of the of Jewish people they're controlling the banks it's all in this in the movie and he is Jewish 18:21 which is the J position so that's fasc but he's listening to How there's you know there's Israeli Jews versus the 18:27 American Jews and this so we we're getting that subplot throughout the film which is that's the engaging part is 18:33 that we see a guy who's paranoid who thinks this and that about the governments and then he goes kind of 18:41 insane like that guy in the 1800s went insane so we'd have this you could almost have like a uh even more engaging 18:48 film you could almost go flashback to the other guy remember they like a par a 18:53 parallel story like Godfather Two or something yeah that's right almost have like this guy went insane with his chess 18:59 genius because he he had voices in his head but he's a genius and then see the parallels with Bobby fiser kind of going 19:05 in say the same way this other guy went and saying who was at the time the Bobby Fisher of his time in the late 1800s 19:12 yeah that would have been an interesting film don't you think oh yeah absolutely 19:18 that's my biggest issue with this film is sure there's just like there's several different ways to open a chess 19:25 match yeah there's several different paths this movie could have taken and you think about the potential moves 19:32 that the movie could have made and you get disappointed it's weird that two schlubs 19:38 like us could come up with a better story and I honestly think I I would challenge anyone who has seen the film 19:44 here's our criticism would disagree I hate to but I would die by that sword the metaphorically speaking that I that 19:52 the majority of the people who heard this Chris would disagree like no no that's not a more engaging you know him 19:57 going on the Run and Exile and all that stuff because that's a fascinating piece of History you know where he's going 20:03 baddy it's like a beautiful mind right that that fil that that was a parallel I thought about I thought of that movie 20:10 and I was like yeah someone who's maybe not that likable but who's a genius so you admire the genius and that's where I 20:16 did admire Bobby Fisher's genius his ability and so I was rooting for him the sense that not that I wanted basy to 20:23 lose because just because he's Russian in fact basy the character portrayed in the film seemed like very likable 20:30 easygoing personality I liked his personality but even he showed signs of his genius kind making him paranoid 20:36 which I like too that I don't know if Bobby was rubbing off on Basi but there was that remember he's looking at his chair his chair might have listing 20:42 devices he had his chair yeah I think has said at least on Wikipedia said that 20:48 he didn't approve of the portrayal of himself in this he said that his main his main gripe 20:53 was the way they presented him agreeing to continue the match with 20:59 fiser was not accurate to why he actually made the decision in real life 21:05 and he didn't go into any detail about it but he said it wasn't it wasn't presented in the movie in an accurate 21:11 way so okay I don't know interesting enough though interesting enough both uh 21:16 Basi and Bobby remained cordial and friendly their whole life there was no animosity between them and Alive yeah 21:23 he's still alive okay yeah 1937 he was born yeah oh wow wow good for him so 21:30 he's still kicking around okay so yeah and and in the what in the early 2000s he was beat by a teenage girl oh 21:38 really wow yes so the the so I agree the 21:43 problem with this film and though it did it though it did what it was supposed to do it portrayed Bobby in an unflattering 21:48 light which is fine it's okay that you're that character but I guess maybe because I didn't know that's what Bobby 21:53 was like I was thrown off like I don't like this guy and so now I'm kind of watching a film about a person I don't really care about like I don't relate to 22:01 him chest isn't that engaging for me and but then the movie did like we said ends 22:06 with his epilog well there you go there's your story and so his childhood 22:11 and his whole relationship with his mother wasn't really fleshed out I didn't understand why why see his family and a sister when all we get out of that 22:17 is that they cheer from him in the end final game like wow great they were still watching their brother and son 22:23 played the game at the end it was silly and him being paranoid looking at you know stuff in the phones and it's been 22:28 done before again start the film that way start it that way the way it almost did it actually started with him looking 22:34 at the phones and tearing up his hotel room then it goes back and then we get there later you know three quarters way 22:39 through the film back to that you know the opening shot of the film wasn't being paranoid they should have stuck with that they should have just landed 22:45 us as an audience right in the middle of that action and then see the Exile the states wanting to arrest him and why and 22:52 him going to Iceland and dying there and him and bosy playing could be a Hollywood Trope but he could have them 22:58 playing a a private match with no audience where it's just a a private match we don't know who the winner is in 23:03 the film Cuts something like that I don't know what about what do I know obviously you know they made the movie 23:09 they wanted to make right they did the okay so let's talk about the cast for me 23:17 this movie was really really sort of made by The Supporting Cast there were 23:24 some great supporting players here well guy that played carine 23:30 Nigro he's a real life person he was the the person that kind of trained he was 23:36 like the Mickey so to speak to to Bobby Fisher when he was a kid he was the one that you know Beat Bobby at the 23:42 beginning but then Bobby came back played and we see a little Montage of them growing together and training him 23:47 to become a better chess player so he was a real person that so that was a real person within the film as a real 23:53 life person he was played by a guy named Conrad pla Conrad pla I don't recognize him for 23:59 anything else but he's been in a lot of stuff like if you look at his credentials he's he's been acting in 24:04 television up to 2022 and film up to 2018 so he's you know busy actor in his 24:10 own right Spanish Canadian yeah formerly a professional kickboxer yeah he didn't seem to me like 24:17 he was the kind of guy that would kick ass and take names but but here we are hey 26 Pro fights who's ranked third in 24:23 the world at one time good for him I I wonder if Jake Paul has uh has his name on a list of of 24:30 people he can fight yeah he's not old enough he's gonna get 24:36 a little bit older I think all right now this next actress I did recognize did you ever see Deadwood uh I watched the 24:44 first season of Deadwood I never committed enough to it but yeah oh I love Deadwood it's such a great I me as 24:50 you know I'm a huge western guy and Deadwood was just like G such a good 24:55 Western show she played on that show Calamity Jane okay so that's the same actress 25:01 that played Bobby's mother in this film so I recognize her right away she always looks so different because in Calamity Jane she's she's really unded up like 25:09 she looks terrible so to speak but again kind of a thankless role we sort of see his his upbringing and things like that 25:17 and it seems like the film tried to paint it like it had a way more of an impact on 25:25 his mental health than than we probably think yeah because he says the one scene when 25:30 he's a boy like where's my father who is he like you're just you're just slubbing all these other guys where's my father 25:36 and we never get the answer or it's never really you're like welcome to the club kid you're one of the millions of 25:43 kids who didn't have a dad growing up sort of speak she seemed like a decent enough mom but she just I guess liked you know sleeping around and she was 25:49 part of some sort of communist club or something other than that I don't know like did you get anything that he was mistreated anyway 25:56 or not really I mean it was just that was the first indication that he was kind of a 26:01 jerk yeah yeah yeah he told her did he didn't he curse at her or 26:07 something yeah and actually that kid had a had probably the best accent in the 26:12 movie the kid that played young Bobby fiser did a great job yeah I thought he 26:18 did actually did a great job well there were two of them yeah there was two of them that's right you're right it 26:23 actually threw me off when he grew up a little bit they got two actors look very similar it threw me off I was like wow 26:28 you know is this one of those what's that director that film that movie boy or whatever was life of a boy or what 26:34 was called oh yeah Richard Len letter yeah that's that's I haven't seen that film have you no yeah I I like him as a filmmaker 26:42 but I haven't seen it I don't know why it doesn't interest me it should interest me it's an interesting experiment for our listeners it's 26:47 somebody that he directed a film like in 10 or 12 years like it took 10 years to film because he was filming as the boy 26:54 was aging it's an interesting experiment yeah well you better make sure you have 27:01 your your blocking because you can't go back and re-shoot something that's right 27:06 okay now this next guy he had a big role in the film he looked semi-familiar his name is Michael 27:11 stalberg do you recognize him for anything you saw I had to look him up yeah he was I think he was in one of the 27:18 men and black movies but he also did a Cohen Brothers movie that is probably 27:23 not a well-known Cohen Brothers movie but called the serious man he was the 27:30 okay yeah I've seen that film I have seen I've seen every Conan film brother okay tremendous film it's it's probably 27:38 in my top five favorite Cohen Brothers movies oh wow okay I don't think it's in my top five but yeah I mean a Coen 27:44 Brothers film is a Coen Brothers film it's never a bad watch but yeah interesting okay that was him okay I 27:50 don't my my brain was tickling like you've seen him before where is he Men in Black 3 I mean I've seen the film but 27:57 so in recent films I'm just trying to see here nothing that I would have seen him recently so but again he's one of 28:03 those people he's always in film he's got two being filmed right now he's been in television oh okay he was in 28:10 Boardwalk Empire which I watched the whole thing he's one he had a main role in that that's where I saw him then he played Arnold rosstein in that 28:19 oh okay yeah he's a he he's a great actor movie is really elevated by The 28:25 Supporting Cast yeah agreed so he was part of that support now we're getting to the actors where I didn't have to or 28:31 I wouldn't have to like look them up who they are so Peter saror sar's guard we 28:37 mentioned him he played a real life person that was part of like this individual like has his own Wikipedia 28:43 page he was also an American chess Grandmaster chess writer teacher and a former former Catholic priest and I 28:50 guess during the events of this film he was still a Catholic priest because they really made you know that he's walking 28:55 around wearing the Garb throughout the whole film which like almost like a like a superhero costume throughout the film 29:01 to remind the audience this is a Catholic priest what did you think of Peter sarsgard both as an actor and his 29:07 and his time on this film again I I think he elevates this film I think he's a a good sort of meat 29:15 and potato supporting actor the one thing I'll say is his character really 29:20 was sort of the every movie sort of has this right 29:25 the the character that the audience is going to sort of get a lot of their information from yeah yeah that's so I 29:33 think he was tasked with conveying a lot of the exposition or the information the 29:40 audience needed to know so he was the voice of the audience you know he point out the chess moves to sort of help us 29:47 understand what was going on there so yes and I found that fast I found that fascinating at the end so for our 29:53 listeners if you haven't seen the movie when they had the big final chess match at the end like Craig was saying Peter W 29:58 well Peter sarsgard his character the what's his character's name I apologies William Lombardi was the real life 30:04 person so he was he was kind of like the the Bobby Whisperer so when Bobby was 30:11 having a really hard go or you know freaking out the Catholic priest played 30:17 by Peter would come in and talk to him off a ledge and he was kind of like the soft voice for Bobby even at times T 30:25 cold heart truce or like hey snap out of it what are you doing so he was like the go- between between the sponsors and 30:32 Bobby type thing so that's kind of how I took him but he himself was a very 30:38 prolific and good in real life chess player and so when we get to the final matches we as the audience because chess 30:45 there's no talking like when the when the opponents are playing they're not yapping at each other there's no bickering there's no arguments or 30:51 discussion like what the hell are you doing that move for like you don't it's it's I guess it's part of the rules you don't talk to each other it's all just 30:58 moves and so we don't know what's really kind of happening right we don't know what the thoughts are so we go cut to 31:06 the both the Russian teams and the American teams have you know people with their own chess boards and they will move the 31:13 pieces the same way that their players have moved their pieces so we can see the game inside like what's their 31:19 thought process this is what they're doing oh I see what he's doing so this is the dramas we like oh he's doing I 31:25 can't believe he's doing the move what is he doing it's suicide oh I can't it's all this talk about a chess game and but 31:30 that's what it does you're right so all this me saying all this is saying that we as the audience we can now hear the 31:38 thought process that Bobby is doing or how we should respond to these moves that the audience can't talk out loud 31:44 because it's rude to talk during the game but then they get to do it for us you know behind the wall there um yep so 31:50 Peter sarsgard he's another actor I've mentioned this numerous times doing this podcast he's an actor where I've never 31:57 gone to see hey Peter stars's got a new film coming out I can't wait to see it however when 32:03 he shows up I'm like oh yeah this guy he's a good guy he's a good actor you know he yeah every time I see him he 32:09 just seems to do just fine as an actor and I I think it's not a bad place to be 32:14 so what are your thoughts on do you have any like fandom with him or you just or 32:19 do you kind of feel the same way like I've seen tons of his like if you look at his filmography you've seen a lot of his films yeah and and I've got to think 32:27 that it's probably better career-wise to be to be him 32:34 because you're never going to be expected to carry a movie you're never going to be expected to open a movie 32:40 yeah you're gonna do a lot of behind the scenes or at least you know non obvious heavy lifting character work but I think 32:47 that keeps you employed my first real recollection is probably like Garden State maybe he played the gravedigger 32:56 friend that Zack Brad sort of reconnects with when he goes back to Jersey or whatever and he's kind 33:02 of a not a great person or whatever he he played that role well yeah I mean he 33:08 doesn't have to go to bed at night worried whether or not Pawn sacrifice is GNA open big enough to make the 33:14 investors happy no I I've said it before in other episodes whether it's this show 33:20 or other ones where that's the that's the career I'd want to have because you can go you still go go to the 33:26 supermarket or Disneyland with your family you might have people say hey you're that guy I've seen that's okay I 33:33 I would say something to the effect if you can tell me what movie I've been in I'll give you an autograph but no you're 33:39 just you're just that guy I'm like that's perfect I'm just that guy for example here's the you're talking about Green Lantern that came out in 2011 was 33:46 that movie a box office to critic success or no no did he play Brainiac he played Doctor Hector Hammond yeah 33:52 Brainiac so what's that's what I mean nobody is on his case regarding green L 33:59 who are they on Ryan Reynolds yeah exactly so if if a movie fails no one's 34:04 P sarsgard you're in that you that movie bombed because of you another one that he was in night and 34:10 day I like that movie it it's a fun movie but was it a box office success like was it a I don't think it was a 34:16 bomb but for Tom Cruz film it wasn't you know it wasn't a huge film so again that's another example of no one saw 34:22 that film and blamed or criticized Peter they would have thrown their ey at Cameron Diaz or Tom Cruz right so that 34:30 it's a great place to be where you're just like I'm working I got a job and I got a next film and he's got another film right now that he's filming and 34:36 it's probably not going to ride on his shoulders either oh actually speaking of which ah 34:42 I say this as I say this guess who is writing and directing and starring in 34:47 that film Mikey Gillen hall now why I say that because that's his wife oh okay wow 34:56 I didn't realize that they were yeah they've been married for quite some time so his wife is writing directing 35:02 producing the film so megie Gillen Hall they've been married now for 15 years so 35:07 his brother is Jake dot dot dot Jake starred in the previous film to this one 35:14 with Love and Other Drugs directed by Wick I wonder if there's some sort of connections there where it's like 35:19 because you could imagine Jake's on the film set with Ed's Wick Magie probably comes over to visit the set Peter 35:26 probably goes with with Magie the film or the or the premiere you know and Ed's 35:31 like hey I got another film you might be interested there's probably a little bit of that Jake probably had a good time with Ed and so Peter's like yeah I'll go 35:37 do a film with Ed yeah so not much more to say about Peter he was the voice of reason both for Bobby and for the 35:42 audience we like Peter sar's character and we appreciate him as one would with a Catholic priest all right so the next 35:49 the next credited person person I recognized by face but I did look her up because like oh man she looks so 35:54 familiar her name is Lily Rabe if I've seing her name right she plays Joan fer 36:00 that's Bobby's of course sister it's weird that she's credited third in the credits I thought that was weird because 36:07 according to the Wikipedia listing which is usually pretty close to the credits that they do in the films because 36:12 Michael stalberg who plays that guy that goes with Bobby he's the one that's kind of the lawyer type person or the 36:18 business side of the house he's in the film a lot but it's just weird that his sister's third credit and this is when 36:24 you get into the business end of the movie business there's all probably all 36:30 kinds of you know like oh we you know we'll take this level of pay but we need 36:37 this you know this credit or whatever you know or or you know this level you know who knows it's who knows no I hear 36:44 you and she's she was good I mean she's fine but odd again underutilized not 36:50 really sure great you have a sister cool I mean what there were there were maybe three scenes together well the big scene 36:56 was her saying like talk again to Paul Marshall played by Michael stalberg at the restaurant where she's like I'm 37:01 getting these letters from he's my brother take care of him at first I like is that the mother I was like oh that's the sister 37:08 absolutely yeah I'm like I was so confused oh that's the sister anyways so 37:13 her name is Lily Rabe the reason why I know her because I'm a big fan of this TV series she played reoccurring 37:19 characters on seasons of American Horror Story yeah uhhuh okay did you know her from anything else or same thing I 37:25 didn't know her from anything in particular I'd like to say that I knew her from the you know the theatrical version of the The Merchant of Venice 37:33 but I I did not yeah so she's been in a lot of stuff but I I've watched every 37:39 season of American Horror Story and she's been in the majority like 70 episodes so that's where I saw her face like oh that's where I've seen her of 37:44 course she another Gillen Hall connection she actually plays in four episodes of the miniseries Presumed 37:51 Innocent starring Jake gal it's based on the novel that Harrison Ford starred in the same film oh right okay 37:58 yeah they just flush it out for miniseries on Apple TV with Jake it's it's on my to watch list because I 38:03 actually really like Jake gal I think he's a great actor yeah I I dig him I love Donnie Darko of course you know 38:09 yeah yeah he not did another great movie called Nightcrawler have you ever seen night crawler not yet I know I've heard 38:15 it's oh my goodness yeah it's like a Paparazzi type film uh oh man you have 38:21 to watch Nightcrawler like immediately if you're Jake I know I thought you could say did another great film Road 38:28 did you watch Road House no I couldn't I couldn't bring myself to watch it okay I allow myself just enjoy a film just 38:35 because just because like I know it has the title Ro house I know the original with Patrick S is beloved I get all that 38:41 stuff but if you have the power to do so to watch the film and pretend that the Original Roadhouse never existed like 38:48 just don't don't compare it it's not even a remake it's just a reimagining it 38:54 just takes the same idea they shouldn't even call it it's a it's a fun I enoy 39:00 and they do that they do that because they know that whatever percentage of 39:07 the viewership will increase because of the connection to I get it then I still don't understand like the economics of 39:14 it I think gyllen Hall and Doug Lyman director were pissed because it didn't go to theaters at all and they they 39:21 thought it was so like I just always wonder about streaming and I know sort of in our our group chat with the 39:27 network Shawn Malloy always talks about how are these movies benefiting anyone unless they're doing theatrical openings 39:34 overseas and that's where they're making their money from Doug Lyman right after the Roadhouse another film I haven't 39:40 seen yet but he had two films in 2024 go straight to streaming the other one was the instigators with Matt Damon and 39:45 Casey Affleck okay yeah yeah so there must be money in 39:51 streaming yeah I don't know if these movies are opening overseas and they're doing enough money overseas to justify 39:58 it or if there's some kind of tax write-off you know component I I don't 40:04 know Doug lyman's another interesting director though that's a dude who his 40:09 career you could do many series on him yeah his career did not go the way I thought it would he started swingers 40:17 second film that was the second film his first film was getting in yeah swingers kind of put him on the map and he 40:23 followed it up I think with go that's right which is like one of those Tarantino sort of inspired that 40:30 Tarantino boom but he did like Mr and Mrs Smith before that he did the born identity yeah that that was the trend 40:37 where it's like oh let's take a hot Indie director and make a big budget action film but then I didn't he also do 40:42 night and day no no who did night and day oh who did that it's director I know 40:48 too we'll get back to that I love this I love these discussions this is what I love about this series so he did he did a jumper Mr and Mrs Smith jumper that 40:57 a lot of people like jumper I haven't seen it but I know in the the online Talk of the films people kind of get a 41:03 kick out of Jumper did you like it yeah I also read the book it's it it was based on no it was cool and Hayden 41:10 Christensen was perfect for that movie and he's he's also able to play really unlikable characters to be something 41:17 he's sort of leaned into a little bit but yeah Doug L his best you're you're forgetting his best film Edge of 41:24 Tomorrow oh yeah the Tom Cruz film that's legit good film that's underated 41:30 I I think of it as Live Die Repeat uh it's called edge of tomorrow 41:36 but it was originally called live die and repeat yes yeah that they kept it for the film tagline though yeah I also 41:41 think when it came out on home video that was very prominent yeah that's a good movie James mangle directed night 41:48 and day that's right okay yeah who just did the Bob D movie that just came out I was say the indana Jones film too yeah 41:55 and he did he did Logan James Mangold is another one cuz he made Copland Cop Land well you know what here's the funny 42:00 thing the fact this is actually very interesting that we're doing this and this is actually I'm not just saying this when I wanted to do a director it 42:07 was the idea of it was not every film this director is well known edwi but we could talk about his like people no 42:13 glory Legend the fall that's what I mean there's films that like oh he did those films and that's exactly what we're doing with these other directors is like 42:20 oh he did that film but they're they're films that people know and I didn't want 42:25 to do a step Spielberg for Nolan yeah yeah yeah we get it we get it no offense to my one of my guest calls quent 42:32 Tarantino you know you because these are films that we get it they're quent everyone loves quent every you know or 42:37 they have a huge fan base we don't have to sing their accolades So Much Anymore yeah I wanted to get these sort of like 42:43 oh that guy did that film it's almost like the it's like this Peter sarsgard sarsgard of directors oh that director 42:50 you know so like very few people go to a film because Ed Wick's in it you know they're not going because he's in it but 42:56 they're like oh he's directing it it might be good and so far so far maybe this film was his first real hiccup I've 43:03 really enjoyed his films this might be the first one so i s that Craig because funny enough I'm looking at James 43:09 mangled I'm looking at Doug Lyman I I kind of agree with you these are other directors that have like a you know it's 43:16 not like 30 Films I could do another miniseries but okay so back to the back 43:21 to the the actress because now we're on Liv Sher or sorry as pronounced by we 43:27 found out later I don't know if you heard the episode that I did with Scott on defiance did you hear that episode I 43:33 haven't listened yet okay it's Le though isn't it that's right it's Le I always pronounce it live or live or whatever 43:39 but when I heard the audio book and I heard edwick pronounced it leev I'm like oh I have been corrected so so leev 43:46 shriber I already said all I had to say about leev on my Defiance episode was Scott so I won't repeat myself as an 43:52 actor but I want to hear your thoughts on him as an actor did you mention that he played Chuck webner 43:57 you know what's funny I didn't I didn't men that yeah yeah Chuck he played Chuck I like Le shriber he's had an 44:03 interesting career as well he he played sabertooth in some of the X-Men movies which I thought was funny he was in the 44:10 latest one which was disappointing are you talking about Deadpool and Wolverine yeah they used the other the other 44:15 saber-tooth for that I don't even think that was Tyler M though I think it was was it yes uh because the toad guy they 44:22 didn't get Ray Park for toad they didn't get the dude that played Juggernaut so it's it's weird Deadpool and Wolverine 44:28 they were like we'll get lookalikes but either way the thing about Le of shriber for me is he's such a sensitive actor 44:36 and it was just always weird that he played Sabertooth and then also Chuck webner but I think his biggest strength 44:43 is always sort of that that sensitivity and God I'm just thinking back now he 44:48 was in he was in Scream and scream too he was caught weary he was the guy that 44:55 was originally accused of killing Sydney Mom that's right that's a great poll Craig thank you for that it just it just 45:01 popped in my head all the films we didn't mention but yeah great that's why I like your thought no I I I've always liked him and again he is of great 45:09 benefit to this movie his role it's very subdued it's 45:14 it's a quiet performance but there's that whole sequence where he's in his apartment or 45:20 he's in his hotel room and he knows that he's being listened to so he's talking to all of his handlers in Russian 45:28 and it sounded like a good authentic Russian to Accent to me okay the fact 45:33 that you're bringing that that's why I ask if you listen to the Defiance episode I'm shame on you for not listening to it yet I hope you do it 45:38 it's only been out for what like like less than two weeks how dare you you listen right away when you see that episode drop I need those numbers Craig 45:45 I need them I'm counting on you you and Kate and Doug you're my top list I always look forward to your guys' 45:51 comments because like oh good they like it okay but during that episode we mentioned or we didn't mention Ed on his 45:57 audio version of that film he had a lot to say on that film so I'll save it for your listen and for my audio go back 46:02 listen but you mentioned the Russian dialogue or dialect it's cool that you caught that on your own actually 46:09 because Ed mentioned that when leev did the Russian talking with other authentic 46:14 Russian actors I think there's other authentic Russian actors with him they thought he's spoke Russian they thought 46:19 he was Russian they thought they could get conversational with him he was that good at it they thought oh he speaks 46:26 Russian we mentioned too in that episode we figured that LE of seems like he's highly intelligent as a pro like if you 46:31 were to measure his IQ he just seems like he might be a smart guy absolutely absolutely and I also think that's a a 46:38 sign of a committed actor you know that a lot of 46:44 actors would be like it's good enough or the dialect coach would be like it's good enough right but it seems like he's 46:50 the type of guy that puts in that extra couple of hours by himself I agree you know and I I always admire that it's not 46:57 something that I I don't notice and don't appreciate yeah so again check out that 47:02 episode folks if you want to hear more about our discussion about Le of shriber I wanted to hear Craig's thoughts on I'm not surprised you feel that way about 47:08 him solid actor great actor and I know I know I need to see Ray Donovan I heard it's a good show yeah you know what that 47:14 was a Showtime show right yeah I'll have to watch that too because we have the Paramount plus with Showtime yeah I've 47:19 heard good things about that show I don't know why but he reminds me of like the alpha male version of Tom Hanks yeah yeah yeah I I I can see that 47:28 yeah yeah he just seems like a meteor be the guy's a big dude like I think he's like 47:33 six3 well yeah like I mean he was able to play Chuck webner so I mean like yeah yeah yeah so yeah he's 57 now if you can 47:40 believe it but yeah great guy great actor he again he was I think I I said it for him that he's one of those actors 47:46 where I don't think I've ever gone to see a Le of shriber movie but when he's in it you're like oh he's a great actor 47:53 I'm glad he's here yeah okay drum roll please we're not going to talk about the star who played Bobby fiser himself we 47:59 have yet to talk about him on our on our podcast The Flicks podcast Toby McGuire 48:05 he is actually my age I think we're both born in 75 yeah he's about just a few months older than me we all know who 48:11 Toby McGuire is so the question now is did he play a good Bobby fiser so well 48:19 that you found yourself being irritated by Toby McGuire because that's kind of how I felt I like I was like boy he's 48:26 doing a good job or is his acting annoying or is Bobby Fisher annoying or all the above what's 48:31 your over thoughts about Toby McGuire as Bobby fer you made some interesting points in the runup there but for me 48:39 Toby Maguire is the weak Link in this film sure at the end of the film when they show the real Bobby Fitcher you 48:45 hear his voice and you say okay that's what Toby was trying to do but Toby's 48:52 got this problem that a lot of actors have and a lot 48:57 films sort of have I think a famous example would be like The Devil's Advocate with Kiana 49:05 reev they do a voice but the voice is not consistent throughout the 49:11 film either do the voice or don't I don't think you need to sound like Bobby 49:16 fiser to do the Bobby Fisher movie and getting 49:22 back to Jame James Mangold if you look at the Johnny Cash movie he made Walk the Line 49:27 right wae Phoenix doesn't look like Johnny Cash he doesn't sound like Johnny Cash right but in that movie he was 49:34 Johnny Cash yeah and I think the problem with Toby and McGuire's performance here is he seems to try and mimic too much 49:42 and for me it always seemed like a performance 49:47 that was inauthentic don't disagree with the weakest link comment and your 49:53 reasoning the sound in fact I I think it was the the film I think we're about 49:58 two-thirds of the way through the film he's walking down that Gravel 50:04 Road when his Handler and I think it was just the Handler guy comes up to him and 50:10 says hey they've they've accepted your offer whatever it is to play in the room the ping pong room or whatever and he 50:15 turns around to walk back instead of going to the car it was actually at that moment when 50:21 I was like is Toby mcer a good actor I don't know 50:27 and and I felt bad because I'm sure he's a sweetheart of a guy this again this has nothing to do with him as a personality I don't think he has any 50:33 real scandals in his life I don't think he's a bad person I I don't know I don't know enough like I don't fall the towboys on everybody but the point is it 50:41 didn't even dawn on me because I don't watch Toby McGuire films I've seen a lot of them I've seen the ice storm I've 50:48 seen I know you've seen fear and lo in Las Vegas but I don't think he had a big role in that of course Pleasantville was a big one I think is one of his bigger 50:55 films was Pleasantville but I probably saw it because of ree Withers spin of The Cider House Rules he was in Ride 51:00 With the Devil he was in I've seen those of course Wonder Boys I've seen so there's a big span there he in these big you know 51:07 very I want to say artsy films that's the right word but just like drama films 51:12 like Oscar worthy type film or Os he was in seab biscuit of course we we all know 51:18 he was the Spider-Man now I will say here's my good things to 51:25 say about I think he's a great Peter Parker I think he did a great job absolutely yeah okay so I think he Nails 51:32 Peter Parker and the Spider-Man character in fact when I saw Spider-Man no way home and of course they had that Multiverse with the Spider-Man I thought 51:39 all three guys did a great job it just goes to show you that many actors can play the same role I like that idea that you don't have to have a favorite 51:45 necessarily just like there's more than one Batman there's more than one Spider-Man more than one Superman the character is too important in my books 51:51 well whoever that character with Joker is the same thing I like all the different versions because the characters too important not to tell 51:57 stories about on the big screen just because a certain actor nailed it like I want to see more Superman films I want 52:02 to see more Batman films because I like the character I I read comic books all the time as a teenager and I I knew what 52:09 a different artist would draw my comic book I knew oh that's so and so that's so and so so I knew the styling was 52:14 different but I didn't care I even had ones I didn't like as much as others but I like the character too much to not 52:20 read about the story okay the point is it just dawned on me on this film 52:26 watching Toby McGuire outside of the Spidey suit I don't know if he's a great 52:31 actor I don't know I think he's been a good films I think he's had good directors I think this is a situation 52:38 where I don't know if he's a great actor because he did not save this film he was the weakest like here's a movie about 52:44 Bobby fiser and Toby's performance is the problem I hate that I feel that way yeah 52:53 again I think it's the point where it's the mimic you know the the the 52:59 attempt to mimic and you mentioned fear and Loa and I know that you haven't seen that movie and you're not really interested in it but Johnny Depp he was 53:07 Hunter S Thompson in that movie right he spent a couple of weeks living with hunter in Colorado and Aspen and there's 53:14 no point in that movie where you watch Depp's performance and say oh this is mimickry it was Johnny Depp was Hunter S 53:21 Thompson whereas in this movie it always seemed like you could sort of see the SE in the performance it was mostly based 53:29 on the fact that he tried to do that accent that I don't think he needed to do hot take Johnny Depp's a really good 53:35 actor he is he's a really good actor what he playing Captain uh Pirates of 53:41 the Caribbean captain was Jack right Jack Sparrow yeah Jack Sparrow yeah like he he's fun he's a great Jack Sparrow 53:47 and then when he but when he's playing the like the Donnie Brasco they're like he's so good Edward sister hands let me 53:54 go on and on John D is a great actor he can actually actually act and be different characters and that's what I'm 53:59 getting at is Tobin Maguire a good actor J Depp is not every athletes Michael Jordan I 54:05 think we sometimes forget that that just because you're in Hollywood doesn't mean you're at the same level as other actors or actresses just because you're in the 54:11 NBA not everyone's LeBron James there are levels of ability acting is no 54:17 different I think Toby McGuire is a bit of a benchwarmer and I hate to say it I think he had a great time and a great 54:23 job as playing Peter Parker I think he nailed it I think he's is the right look the right time with the right director with Sam Ramy but I don't know outside 54:31 of that if I can name any real true Toby McGuire performers like they there you go I've talked about Leo DiCaprio for 54:37 example in this Brad Pit there other actors I've talked about on this podcast where I'm like yeah these are rules I 54:43 like Leo Leonard DiCaprio I don't think I could name you five bad films he's been in I don't know I don't know what 54:49 he's done bad he's just he's good at what he does when you watch his film like boy that guy can act you know so I 54:54 don't know what are your thoughts overall in to I guess before we close that chapter just Am I Wrong Am I going crazy here or no you're not you're not 55:01 at some point zwick I I mean I think It ultimately falls on him I I wish he had 55:09 pulled Toby aside during rehearsals before they film and said you know what 55:15 let's not do the voice okay well speaking of zwick let's we're at the part of our podcast now where we hear 55:23 the man himself Ed Wick talk about his film and experience and what you just said said there might tie into what you you're thinking usually the segment 55:30 takes anywhere from half an hour to 40 minutes at the end of the episode well I don't think it's going to take that long 55:35 today here we go on Pawn's sacrifice Toby Maguire and I banked heads at times but his 55:42 performance is very special and we came away good friends I only wish more people had seen it now Ed is a gentleman 55:49 like I've noticed he's he has this I noticed throughout the book where it's almost like he 55:55 doesn't have anything really bad to say he won't say anything at all or if he does have something glowing to say he 56:00 will very much say that Denzel he you know he glowed about Denzel he glows about Tom Cruz when regarding Last 56:06 Samurai and of course well Matthew brck you know even during that time he kind of put a more the onus on the mother you 56:12 know here he said that yes he and the main star banged or buted heads throughout the process so I think we see 56:19 that on the screen I think we see a discombobulated performance because you might have an actor who has a role to do 56:25 so you know he's a Prof Prof I'm going to fulfill the contract I'm going to do this but it seems like there might have 56:31 been like you said you saw it on the screen or in the film there seems to be some sort of a disconnect between what 56:38 we're seeing as a viewer and what we're getting from the actor so maybe he was doing a performance where Ed was like 56:44 you gotta tone it down because Ed will do that he actually has told his actors I know I forget which ones but he's told 56:49 them you know to reain it in and maybe he tried to tell that to Toby like you're maybe you're being two 56:55 whatever and then I don't know what who knows he doesn't say he says they've remained friends what we've all said is 57:03 like he felt I wish more people saw this film let's just listen to the next clip here LEF shriber performance in it as 57:09 miraculous too just as it was in defiance if I'm lucky we'll get to make a third movie together although I 57:16 suspect he might prefer that this whole part not be in Russian okay that's funny so he mentions 57:22 that no more Russian because Defiance was in Russian as well so he was speaking Russian in defi so he's doing 57:27 two Russian films in a row with Ed I thought that was kind of funny but he said he loved work with so here we go he talked about Toby didn't have the best 57:35 experience he already spoke a lot at length regarding Leah what he thought of him kind of like what we've done with today's episode like he didn't repeat 57:41 everything he already said about the actor on the previous movie that he had a good time he wants to work with him again is what he said he he had have no 57:47 problem with that so he called the performance miraculous which to me is 57:53 means something between the two leads Le killed it and you could almost sense with leave 57:59 as a this no offense to to I I don't know Toby but is this there's something about him I don't know what it is I've 58:06 seen people like filming him I know you're an actor but because comes with the territory he seems kind of grumpy I 58:12 don't know if that's true he was he part of the brat pack with Leonardo DiCaprio part of yeah they they had a film that 58:18 they oh they were called the PE Patrol like the p word Patrol what they called that when they were young I know there 58:24 was a like a movie they made made together that they went to court over making sure it was never released that's 58:30 right that's right I think you can find it I think you're able to watch it and I'm not trying to say anything disparaging about again there's always a 58:37 difference between your job and the person so like at the end of the day being an actor is just just like 58:43 sometimes I'm not the best person at my job but don't don't rate my whole personality in life because I might suck at my job sometimes it's a job 58:49 performance and the personality are two different things I don't want to disparage Toby as a person he doesn't 58:55 seem like he very much anymore have you heard why that might be where he's semi-retired or just doesn't care wants 59:01 more money or he just has M well he's got the money I think I think he's got the money but you just keyed in on 59:06 something that made that like sort of reminded me sure me and a friend of mine used to have this sort of theory about 59:12 Mark Wahlberg because okay Mark Wahlberg is I think a very similar actor it's an actor 59:20 that is director dependent because there's amazing Mark wallberg 59:25 performances Boogie kns is is one of them but then there's also atrocious performances and Toby Maguire is very 59:32 similar is he is gonna give a performance that is as good 59:40 as the environment he's in and that we're doing an Ed's Wick podcast so I'm not by any means saying that it's okay 59:47 Ed Wick is the reason his performance is bad but I think connect they didn't connect though that's exactly exactly it 59:54 might also be that Toby and McGuire is made for a certain kind of movie but at the same time I'm thinking back to seab 59:59 biscuit yeah and I don't remember any negative thoughts about his performance 1:00:04 in seab biscuit I think he's a fine actor in the sense of sorry fine actor like serviceable I hate to say it like 1:00:10 that he's not horrible but it but like I said the natural question can't look I can't control what my brain does when 1:00:17 I'm watching this film I said to myself is he a good actor I don't know now I'm questioning no no I I definitely think 1:00:24 it's more of that Mark Wahlberg syndrome where it's got to be the right role like 1:00:29 Spider-Man yeah exactly it's role dependent because how can you make Boogie Nights and then make like the big 1:00:36 hit one's an amazing performance in an amazing movie and the other is a performance in a movie and I think 1:00:42 it's probably the same thing with with Toby is it's got to be a a perfect storm of a a great script and a a great 1:00:49 character and just all the all the stars align whereas for somebody like Leo 1:00:55 shriber it's like I'm going to do my prep work and that's all it takes it's not going to be left to the the gods to 1:01:02 sort of determine whether or not my performance is going to be good well you're right about Toby he's fine 1:01:07 financially he has a net worth of 75 million so he's doing okay doesn't need to work a day in his life or like more 1:01:13 but speaking of films so he did at that time PA sacrifice in 2014 later he was in the movie The Boss 1:01:21 baby playing a voice and the narrator in that film yeah okay then four years 1:01:28 after that he does Peter Parker again and no way home so between Pawn 1:01:34 sacrifice he didn't have live action until he played Spider-Man again then the year then a year later he was in the 1:01:40 movie Babylon yeah you see that babon no I did not see it yeah I know I'm the 1:01:47 same I've heard great things about it and I've heard comparan his comparisons to Boogie Nights um but sometimes I see 1:01:54 the runtime on movies and I'm like unless it's a filmmaker that I simply adore like Quenton I could watch a 4our 1:02:00 Quenton movie no problem exactly but the other thing that I think is interesting that you brought up here is I almost 1:02:06 wonder if Pawn sacrifice killed Toby mire's momentum as a 1:02:15 non Marvel actor his screen time since pwn 1:02:21 sacrifice has been almost zero because again voice actor work supporting role in no way home Babylon he's like 20th on 1:02:29 the credit list he's one of the celebrity people yeah or whatever like he's not like he's third Bill like he's 1:02:34 like 10th to 15th build probably has like a five minute roll and a three- Hour film yeah that's it yeah that's it 1:02:41 Craig like and nothing on the horizon according to Wikipedia yeah I I almost wonder if if if Pawn sacrifice hurt him 1:02:48 more than it helped him more like Yan sacrifice all right okay well I think I don't know 1:02:55 that might be it let's see if there's any more clipss here Jack Reacher never go yeah there 1:03:01 you go that's it w to Jack spoil alert Jack Reacher next and that's the speaking of what you are actually on the 1:03:07 next episode of this podcast if you're still up for that are you okay with that a absolutely it's a movie I've watched 1:03:12 at least twice so I'll be watching it for a third time for that episode awesome okay all right so yeah I mean 1:03:19 there we go folks that is Pawn sacrifice 19 million it made six in the box office 1:03:25 I I feel bad for Ed because I think this is officially his first kind of bomb and 1:03:31 unfortunately it might not be his last I I feel kind of bad to see again someone with such a track record of again Glory 1:03:37 Legends of the Fall Last Samurai The Siege you know like these big films that 1:03:43 did so well now it's like yeah I'm gonna think of two examples here it's sure 1:03:49 Tarantino saying he wants to retire after his 10th film whatever that's going to be because he doesn't want to 1:03:54 become the guy that you look back at his career and and say oh man you know he started missing 1:04:02 his step and also deama dama has said and he made a movie back in 2019 by so 1:04:08 by no means is he sort of sticking to this but dama has always said that like after your 50s as a director it's really 1:04:16 hard because it's it's a demanding job and the's of the opinion that after 1:04:23 you're 50 you really really have to put in the extra bit of work to really 1:04:29 do what you did much easier when you were younger so tell Clint Ewood yeah well 1:04:38 exactly well did you see drawer number two yes I have seen that film why did I 1:04:44 watch it and I did see it just recently last like this it hit Max the other day so we watched it okay what did you think 1:04:52 I I just didn't see the point of it that's a good way of saying yeah why yeah I mean that's the thing either you 1:04:59 know what's that line from The Dark Knight either you uh live your you know long enough to see yourself become the 1:05:05 the villain hero you're the hero for a while but if you live long enough or something you become the villain yeah 1:05:10 yeah yeah it it happens that famous line in Rocky Balboa right where you know Mason the lion Dixon criticized him 1:05:17 being older and he says you'll get there you'll get that you know I mean that's a perfect summation of it it's like yeah 1:05:23 I'm not who I used to be but then you've got you know guys like Martin scores he's almost 90 years old relas Scotts in 1:05:29 his 80s and he's it's crazy you know just put out Gladiator too so I think this film overall I think at the end of 1:05:35 the day what we can say is it looks good it doesn't look bad like it's a good-look film it's got a great 1:05:41 Supporting Cast and that soundtrack dude we didn't talk about a lot of the music but it was loaded I mean yeah it didn't 1:05:47 look like a cheap film the problem start at the top not that Ed failed but he 1:05:53 didn't connect with the main actor the way he did with Denzel the way he did with Leonardo Tom Cruz there was a 1:05:59 disconnect for whatever reason they didn't get along probably they but well they buted heads and Edward probably say 1:06:04 you know what this film's not worth it maybe and funny enough David Fincher was looking to direct this at some 1:06:11 point I can almost see that I can too in my head I I can picture David Fincher's 1:06:19 Pawn sacrifice when I was watching this film I knew that trivia and I was thinking to myself this not a sight on 1:06:24 Edwards Wick but the whole psychological weird drama Beautiful Mind schizophrenia 1:06:29 whatever I could see a David fer spin on this it might have worked a little bit better but then again how do we start 1:06:35 the action with the final match and then the later life of Bobby that's a more interest and people don't talk about that much but that actually is the more 1:06:42 film like for for watching the film yeah it's about Chess but at the same time it's not about Chess I forget the guy's 1:06:48 name but they mentioned the real life chess player in the past they could have done this parallel the same downward 1:06:54 spiral that was mentioned in the film is now happening to Bobby and this guy all 1:07:00 right well there you go Pawn sacrifice folks I still recommend seeing it if you're joining us I know people are 1:07:05 actually watching the films Craig that that people are watching the films as we talk about them so if you're doing 1:07:12 that yeah it's on tub so it's easy enough to watch for free you just have to you know deal with the commercial 1:07:18 breaks if you're in the states it's on 2B if you're in Canada it's on a a 2B platform but it's called Plex PL X it's 1:07:25 another tub like program I have tub as well but even tub Craig has different country agreements it's weird so I I 1:07:32 went to tub wasn't there but it was on a a thing called Plex I have AB Blocker on my PC I watch on my PC so when I watched 1:07:39 it on my PC I don't get ads that includes tub I don't have ads oh wow it works it's called it's just your adg 1:07:46 guard a yeah adg guard it actually works for it doesn't work for YouTube anymore used to work for YouTube but YouTube is 1:07:52 like ah we see it I pay for you premium anyways but so do I when I did a swing 1:07:59 shift with Katie on her show okay I watched it on YouTube and we have premium so I'm just not I'm not used to 1:08:05 watching ads on it anymore and I think on the episode I said to her I'm like yeah you know it's on YouTube without commercials and she's like no there's 1:08:12 commercials and I was like oh I've got premium yeah Katie she listen to this podcast Katie come on Fork up the money 1:08:19 YouTube I can't go back what I can't go back I I got to say that YouTube premium is 100% worth it it is it is the one 1:08:26 thing if if I had to get rid of every single app like one at a time to save money let's say yeah thankfully I'm not 1:08:32 there but if I had to get rid of apps one at a time YouTube premium would be the last one the thing I think a lot of people don't realize is you get YouTube 1:08:39 music as part of your premium subscription so like you don't need itunes anymore what's that yeah yeah you 1:08:45 don't need that or Spotify or whatever and I mean so yeah for me it's just like you know not having to watch the ads is 1:08:50 one thing but then also you get you get a music service as well when you're on your phone for example like when you 1:08:56 listen to a podcast on your iTunes app yeah you can turn off your phone like your home screen and walk around with the screen off yeah 1:09:02 YouTube yeah yeah it'll stop playing if you do that but with YouTube premium you can turn off yeah it's great you can 1:09:08 download stuff too yes you can download if you want on an airplane ride or whatever yeah you can have stuff downloaded on your phone okay all right 1:09:15 well Craig as always is an absolute pleasure but we're not G have to wait long folks because Craig will be back because and he also agreed to do Jack 1:09:21 Reacher 2 which is going to be an interesting one to talk about regarding edwick and his journey these films spoiler he talks 1:09:28 less than he did about Pawn sacrifice with Jack Reacher too so you and I are going to have to bring the commentary 1:09:34 not our not our man Ed okay so Craig again link your stuff and check out 1:09:40 Craig's link tree in the show notes he he has a lot of great wonderful podcasts and Craig again thank you so much for 1:09:45 joining me today oh thank you uh you're one of my favorite people to uh sit down behind the microphone with too kind 1:09:52 thank you sir 1:10:13 [Music]