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John Wooden - The Greatest Coach of All Time? · Dirt Nap City - History's Most Interesting Dead People

0:05
SPEAKER_00: Hello, everybody.
0:10
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to another episode of Dirtnap City.
0:15
SPEAKER_00: I am Alex.
0:17
SPEAKER_00: This is Kelly.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: And I am here to rock your world today.
0:22
SPEAKER_00: Not really.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: Not really, but I'll introduce you to somebody.
0:26
SPEAKER_01: Somebody, somebody I know a little bit about, but not much.
0:28
SPEAKER_00: So if you haven't listened to this Joe before, we take people and they have to have two things.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: There's two distinct qualities they have to have.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: Number one, they have to be deceased.
0:41
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: X.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: X person.
0:45
SPEAKER_00: And the number two thing is they have to be interesting.
0:48
SPEAKER_00: They don't necessarily have to be interesting when they were alive.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
0:54
SPEAKER_00: You can sometimes get more interesting after you die.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes retrospectively interesting.
0:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
0:59
SPEAKER_00: But we're not just going to talk about a boring person.
1:03
SPEAKER_00: No.
1:03
SPEAKER_00: Maybe maybe eventually, once we did a couple hundred thousand of these.
1:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we'll get down to the boring people, but right now we still got a lot of interesting people to talk about.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
1:13
SPEAKER_00: And I tend to shift more towards people that uh shaped my world, and especially people that were influential in the century where I was um um a youth?
1:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, where I was a boy.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, and that would be the 20th century.
1:34
SPEAKER_00: I was born in 1970.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: Kelly was born in 1968.
1:40
SPEAKER_00: 69.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: 67, 67, 69.
1:44
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, so we're similar in age, and we're a couple of old guys that talk about dead white guys, pretty much.
1:51
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we we we get some diversity in there occasionally, but yeah, a lot of them are dead white guys.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: But you know, you gotta you gotta know uh talk about what you know, and we know white guys, and we know dead guys.
2:03
SPEAKER_00: That's kind of our wheelhouse.
2:05
SPEAKER_00: I guess so.
2:06
SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna slow it down a little to for you today.
2:10
SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
2:11
SPEAKER_00: I want to slow it down and um and talk about somebody who is very famous.
2:17
SPEAKER_00: Well, let me tell you this.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: I am doing something that I don't think I've done in a long time, and that's I'm going sports on you.
2:28
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
2:28
SPEAKER_00: Now, Kel, I am famously a um big sports fan.
2:33
SPEAKER_00: Kelly is not as versed into the athletic world.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: True.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I am talking about I'm gonna talk about this person and not try to focus too much on the sports part of it because he had a very he was very influential in a lot of other ways.
2:51
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I did George Foreman, and that was that was sports.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: You've done George Foreman, yeah.
2:57
SPEAKER_00: Uh we did Babe Dietrichson Zaharias.
3:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, did we do Jesse Owens?
3:02
SPEAKER_00: No, we did Jim Thorpe.
3:03
SPEAKER_00: Jim Thorpe, yeah, yeah.
3:05
SPEAKER_01: Um but uh uh no, I agree with you though.
3:08
SPEAKER_01: Sports is not necessarily my expertise, so I like to learn.
3:12
SPEAKER_01: I loved learning about Babe Dietrichson Zaharias.
3:15
SPEAKER_01: I loved living about learning about Jim Thorpe, and and I like the idea of a person having a second act, a second chapter, like George Foreman did.
3:24
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
3:24
SPEAKER_00: Well, this isn't necessarily that, but this person is uh basically set the blueprint for a lot of things that a lot of 20th century living.
3:36
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
3:36
SPEAKER_00: Um, this person, I would say, if you had to kind of intersect him with other people that we've talked about, I would say he is a cross between Mr.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: Rogers, Dale Carnegie, and Johnny Appleseed.
3:52
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so very nice guy, a very uh like like sort of pure, not a lot of scandal, high morals.
4:00
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
4:01
SPEAKER_00: And he so one thing you may or may not know about me is that I'm obsessed with coaches.
4:10
SPEAKER_00: I'm really interested in athletic coaches and um mostly how they act like fools all the time.
4:18
SPEAKER_00: That usually interests me.
4:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm fascinated with like even when my son was younger, we would listen to press conferences together and like pick things out, and and I just am fascinated with coaching.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: This person is not even really an opinion, um, I think uh is the greatest coach of all time, and that's not even really an opinion, he's just the greatest coach of all time.
4:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, you may or may not have heard of him.
4:48
SPEAKER_00: Um he was born in 1910 in Hall, Indiana, and he died in 2010 in Los Angeles.
4:59
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so he was lived to be 99, almost a hundred years old.
5:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know as soon as you say the name, I'm gonna be like, oh yeah, I know who that is.
5:09
SPEAKER_01: Um right, I just can't think of the name.
5:12
SPEAKER_00: Um uh and and and he has an award, Lombardi, Vince Lombardi.
5:18
SPEAKER_00: No, but he does have an award.
5:19
SPEAKER_00: This guy was a basketball coach, not okay.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: So Indiana Hoosers, big basketball.
5:25
SPEAKER_00: Um no, he was he didn't coach Indiana, he coached UCLA.
5:30
SPEAKER_00: Oh, all right, you got me.
5:32
SPEAKER_00: I have no idea.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: His name was John Wooden.
5:35
SPEAKER_01: No idea, never heard of this guy.
5:37
SPEAKER_00: He was known as the wizard of Westwood.
5:40
SPEAKER_00: Uh Westwood being the the town the neighborhood that uh UCLA is in in LA.
5:46
SPEAKER_00: Wait a minute, wait a minute.
5:47
SPEAKER_00: So you're saying this is the greatest coach of all time, and I've never heard of him.
5:51
SPEAKER_01: Right, that chicks out for me.
5:55
SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay, okay.
5:57
SPEAKER_01: Greatest coach in any sport.
5:59
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, better than Madden, better than uh Lombardi.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
6:05
SPEAKER_00: So first I'm gonna establish his bona fide, so you'll uh know that I'm that's not just an opinion, and then I'm gonna talk about um why he was more influential than just that.
6:17
SPEAKER_01: He's kind of I don't even remember the name you said at this point.
6:20
SPEAKER_01: Who is it?
6:20
SPEAKER_01: Well, John Wooden.
6:22
SPEAKER_01: John Wooden.
6:23
SPEAKER_01: That is that is how new this name is in my head.
6:26
SPEAKER_01: I've gotta you gotta say it three times before I'll remember it.
6:29
SPEAKER_01: Say it one more time.
6:30
SPEAKER_00: John Wooden.
6:31
SPEAKER_01: John okay.
6:32
SPEAKER_00: You're right.
6:33
SPEAKER_00: There is an award named after him.
6:35
SPEAKER_00: It's the Wooden Award.
6:36
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like the Heisman Trophy.
6:38
SPEAKER_00: And what's it made of?
6:40
SPEAKER_00: I don't know why that's funny.
6:42
SPEAKER_00: Because it's called the Wooden Award.
6:44
SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, the award isn't wooden, it's not a wood trophy, it's called the Wooden Award.
6:49
SPEAKER_00: It's like the Heisman Trophy of basketball to the top college basketball player every year.
6:54
SPEAKER_00: All right.
6:56
SPEAKER_00: I knew you wouldn't know this person, so I'm not disappointed.
6:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, but what I really want to get into with him is that um he had um he lived his life by the seven-point creed that his father gave him when he was little.
7:12
SPEAKER_00: And um, people that have played for him, he just lived his whole life this way with these seven things.
7:18
SPEAKER_00: And I want to go through those seven things and talk about if there's any value to it.
7:22
SPEAKER_00: But also, then I want to go through and I've kind of taken the opposite of these seven things and seeing if you could live your life that way, too.
7:29
SPEAKER_00: Because I believe that in the 21st century, people almost live their life in the inverse of the seven-point creed.
7:35
SPEAKER_00: So a little different today.
7:37
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna first talk very briefly about his sports athletic achievements, just so you can kind of see what I mean by the greatest coach of all time.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: All right, yeah, if I do that, all right.
7:48
SPEAKER_01: No, no, please.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, sports for a few minutes, and then we'll get off of that and we'll talk about more life things.
7:54
SPEAKER_01: And John John Wooden.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you every time you act like nobody should know this name, you're you're showing your ignorance.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is a very famous person.
8:05
SPEAKER_01: I'm just saying I've never heard of him.
8:07
SPEAKER_01: And right, and you never heard of Dave Dieterson's Arias either.
8:10
SPEAKER_01: True, but but I repeated the name so I'd remember it.
8:14
SPEAKER_01: That's how you remember names, Alex.
8:15
SPEAKER_01: You say the name over and over again, Alex.
8:18
SPEAKER_01: I think you had heard of Jim Thorpe.
8:20
SPEAKER_00: Had you?
8:20
SPEAKER_01: I had yes, absolutely.
8:22
SPEAKER_01: I'd heard of Jim Thorpe.
8:23
SPEAKER_01: I I knew he was a Native American and I knew he was a sports guy.
8:27
SPEAKER_01: That's all I knew.
8:27
SPEAKER_00: And you knew Satchel Page because your mom loves Satchel Page.
8:30
SPEAKER_01: That's right, that's right.
8:32
SPEAKER_01: But John Wooden is totally new territory for me.
8:35
SPEAKER_00: So just to give you a sense of when he was around, he was um uh the UCLA men's basketball coach from 1948 to 1975.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so that was a long time he was the coach there for a long time, and that when you think about what America looked like in 1948 and what it looked like in 1975, especially in athletics, there was a that was a huge time to a huge a lot of changes going on, right?
9:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, from television to integration to uh to just you know um shoes, you know, uh equipment, all that kind of stuff, right?
9:12
SPEAKER_01: They were all wearing kenneys in the early days.
9:14
SPEAKER_00: Sure, sure.
9:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh actually he he stopped being coach in 1975.
9:20
SPEAKER_00: They might have still been wearing kennies or or um actually probably Chuck Taylors, Chuck Taylor's a lot of those guys were wearing, yeah.
9:26
SPEAKER_00: So he won 10 national championships in a 12-year stretch.
9:31
SPEAKER_00: Wow with that, yeah.
9:33
SPEAKER_00: In a 12-year period, he won 10 national championships and seven in a row from 1967 to 1973, he won every national championship from 1967 to 1973, seven in a row.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: Now, to give you an idea how rare that is, no one else has ever won more than four in a row, and he did seven in a row, and ten in a 12-year stretch.
9:57
SPEAKER_00: At one point, he had an 88-game winning streak.
10:02
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
10:03
SPEAKER_00: 88 games.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: Now you only play about 30 to 40 games in a season.
10:08
SPEAKER_00: So 88 games is like you go years.
10:11
SPEAKER_00: People were students at UCLA that would go like their whole their whole uh uh academic career and only see like one or two losses.
10:20
SPEAKER_00: It was just a just a buzzsaw that were just running through the uh all their opponents like a buzzsaw.
10:26
SPEAKER_00: He had four perfect seasons where he went 30 and oh where they never lost a game.
10:31
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
10:31
SPEAKER_00: Um and what's cool is that when he was a player, uh he was also great.
10:40
SPEAKER_00: He was the first person to be an all-American three times.
10:44
SPEAKER_00: He played at Purdue in Indiana.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, and he was inducted, he was the first person to be inducted in the Basketball Hall of Fame as a player and a coach.
10:54
SPEAKER_00: He was inducted in the uh as a player in 1960 and as a coach in 1973 while he was still coaching.
11:01
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: And when he was in high school, he was known as the Indiana Rubber Man.
11:06
SPEAKER_00: Okay, because of the way not the rubber band man, not the rubber bandman.
11:12
SPEAKER_00: Nope.
11:12
SPEAKER_00: And um, it was because of the way he dove after balls on the court, and then when he finished college, there was no NBA back then.
11:21
SPEAKER_00: He went played pro basketball in the NBL, National Basketball League.
11:26
SPEAKER_00: They eventually became the NBA, but that's how long ago we're talking here.
11:30
SPEAKER_00: He made it uh 134 consecutive free throws in um in when he was in the NBL.
11:38
SPEAKER_00: That's still a pro record.
11:40
SPEAKER_00: No one's done that ever in the NBA.
11:42
SPEAKER_00: I think the record is like 94.
11:44
SPEAKER_01: They used to do it from like three feet away, though, right?
11:46
SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
11:47
SPEAKER_00: Same distance, same distance as it is now.
11:50
SPEAKER_00: And you could say, well, for any other kind of record I could give you, you'd say, Oh, their opponents were bigger and stronger.
11:56
SPEAKER_00: Free throws are the same as they always were.
11:58
SPEAKER_00: Okay, and he made 134 in a row as a player.
12:03
SPEAKER_01: The rim wasn't bigger back then.
12:04
SPEAKER_01: No, there was no, no, no.
12:06
SPEAKER_00: The ball wasn't smaller.
12:07
SPEAKER_00: Nope.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: He was um the cool part is he's not really known these days as a player, he's known as a coach, but that's still he still holds the pro record for consecutive free throws, is pretty cool.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
12:21
SPEAKER_00: So after he got out of college, he coached some in some high school ball, and then he coached at Indiana State, and then UCLA, who had was not very good in basketball in the 40s, they hired him in 1948.
12:35
SPEAKER_00: They gave him a three-year contract worth about six thousand dollars over three years.
12:41
SPEAKER_00: Now, in today's money, that's about eighty thousand dollars.
12:45
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: For three years, just to give you an idea, the current coach of UCLA makes six point one million dollars every year.
12:55
SPEAKER_00: Dang, and he's making in today's money eighty thousand for three years, so even then, by today's money, he would be, you know, but but basketball didn't have the revenue stream it did back back then, right?
13:08
SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, today it's got advertising, it's got branding, it's got merchandise.
13:13
SPEAKER_00: The current coach of UCLA is not near the coach that John Wooden was, right?
13:20
SPEAKER_01: You kind of wonder though, Alex, you kind of wonder if if it is a perfect time and place kind of thing, like could he be that kind of coach today?
13:29
SPEAKER_01: Or or just you know, we talked about this with Ron Popeel.
13:32
SPEAKER_01: If he was if he was just starting out and starting to do advertising and infomercials today, would he be as popular and and has done as well?
13:40
SPEAKER_01: I don't think so.
13:41
SPEAKER_01: I think it has to do with your talent and the time.
13:46
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we I think we talked about this with Dick Clark.
13:48
SPEAKER_00: You know, if Dick Clark comes out today, he's a YouTube influencer, but he's not the guy that he we all knew, you know, when there's only three channels and all that, definitely.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: But you know, people today, coaches today try to emulate his style, and the ones that do are kind of successful because he just had simple rules that you could remember and but hard to hard to follow, easy to remember.
14:17
SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, I mean things are more difficult.
14:21
SPEAKER_00: He probably wouldn't have the same numbers that he had before, but I think you'd be successful.
14:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
14:27
SPEAKER_00: He was immediately successful.
14:28
SPEAKER_00: As soon as he got to UCLA in 1948, he was successful.
14:32
SPEAKER_00: He was immediately took them from a loser to a winner.
14:36
SPEAKER_00: And then after two years, he was there for two years, the Purdue job came open.
14:41
SPEAKER_00: Remember, that's where he went to school.
14:42
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
14:43
SPEAKER_00: And he wanted to go back and take it.
14:46
SPEAKER_00: His wife didn't like Los Angeles, they were Midwestern people, simple Midwestern folks.
14:51
SPEAKER_00: He grew up on a farm with no running water and no electricity, and he was just a simple farm kid.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: That Purdue job came open, and UCLA reminded him that he had signed a three-year contract, and that bothered him.
15:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, because he thought that leaving would be like going back on his word.
15:12
SPEAKER_00: You know, you can get out of these contracts, you know, there's buy-out causes and stuff.
15:16
SPEAKER_00: And Purdue offered him more money than he was making, they offered him a car and a house, in addition, but but um he thought that leaving would be going back on his word, and that was in 1950, and he stayed until 1975.
15:34
SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, he was very serious about this.
15:37
SPEAKER_00: He never in his career made more than$35,000 a year, and he never once asked for a raise.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: And I told you how great he was.
15:46
SPEAKER_00: I mean, he was winning 10 championships in 12 years, it probably would have been very easy for him to you would think after like number four or five, he'd be able to say, Hey, by the way, guys, I need I need a little more.
15:57
SPEAKER_00: I mean, just talk about leverage.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there wasn't a college in the country that wouldn't have paid him more money, and he probably got offers.
16:05
SPEAKER_00: In fact, the the Los Angeles Lakers um offered him uh a position, they offered him to be the head coach and making 10 times what he was making.
16:17
SPEAKER_00: 10x.
16:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and he turned him down because he just hadn't felt like he had an obligation to UCLA, and I think he liked the teaching part.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: He didn't consider himself a coach, he considered himself a teacher and a molder of young men, and a lot of college coaches do this.
16:35
SPEAKER_00: A lot of college coaches see themselves as mentors, not even mentors.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: In fact, a lot of it, there's a downside to a lot of it.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: A lot of them have kind of this really paternalistic view of taking guys and turning their lives around, and I think they they talk themselves into taking sometimes guys that that don't have high character because they think they can turn them around because they are good athletes.
17:03
SPEAKER_00: He wasn't like that though.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: Character was really important to him.
17:07
SPEAKER_00: So, some of the guys that you might have heard of that played for him was like um a guy named Lu Al Cinder.
17:13
SPEAKER_00: Have you ever heard of Lou Alcinder?
17:15
SPEAKER_00: I have not.
17:16
SPEAKER_00: He later changed his name to Kareem Abdul Jabbar.
17:19
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
17:20
SPEAKER_01: He was on an episode of Dave.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: That's the only way you know Kareem.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:27
SPEAKER_01: And Dave wrote a song about him.
17:29
SPEAKER_00: I know you're kidding about that.
17:32
SPEAKER_01: Oh, no, I have heard of him, yes.
17:34
SPEAKER_01: But but no, I'm not kidding about Dave wrote a song about him, and he was on an episode.
17:37
SPEAKER_01: You remember that, right?
17:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: Kareem Abdul Jabbar.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: So the interesting thing about Kareem was Kareem was seven feet tall, seven one, something like that.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: And when he while he was in college, um the NCAA outlawed the dunk.
17:56
SPEAKER_01: Wait, the NCAA or the N.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: The NCAA.
18:01
SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
18:02
SPEAKER_00: The the governing body of college athletics, they outlawed the dunk.
18:07
SPEAKER_00: They said that was an illegal shot.
18:09
SPEAKER_00: You could not dunk anymore.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: And he had the seven-footer on his team.
18:13
SPEAKER_00: And um, the dunk was actually outlawed for 10 years from 1967 to 1977, which was a lot of that time when John Wooden was coaching, you could not dunk.
18:26
SPEAKER_01: Was that a was that an NBA or a oh, there wasn't a what were there was pro at that time, right?
18:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
18:31
SPEAKER_00: It was not illegal in the pros.
18:33
SPEAKER_00: Just in college.
18:34
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
18:34
SPEAKER_00: Just in college, right?
18:36
SPEAKER_00: The other thing that wasn't that didn't happen in college um was freshmen didn't play.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: They had a freshman team, and you weren't eligible to play when you were a freshman.
18:47
SPEAKER_00: And in fact, one of those teams, one of those teams that was undefeated, um, they did uh when they opened the arena, the new arena at UCLA, they had an exhibition game where their varsity team played against the freshman team, and the freshman team beat them, and that's the only loss that they had all year.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: Oh, dang.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: So that tells you what he had coming up behind them, right?
19:13
SPEAKER_00: The freshman team was good enough to beat the varsity, and nobody else in the country was good enough to beat the varsity.
19:19
SPEAKER_00: A lot a lot of raw talent.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: So um he he I'm gonna tell you about the seven points in a second, but just to give you an idea about kind of where he um his philosophy, he wrote a book later in life called Be Quick But Don't Hurry.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: Finding success in the teachings of a lifetime.
19:43
SPEAKER_00: So that gives you an idea.
19:45
SPEAKER_00: Be quick but don't hurry.
19:46
SPEAKER_00: A lot of these kind of things that you have to think about.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: It's very zen.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: A lot of this is like you have to give it a second to think about what he really means by these things.
19:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:57
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I the thing I like about him and Johnny Appleseed and Dale Carnegie and Mr.
20:05
SPEAKER_00: Rogers that I think these all guys guys all have in common, is I think they kind of have life figured out, you know what I mean?
20:13
SPEAKER_00: Like for them, like they lived by a code, they lived by a certain creed, right?
20:21
SPEAKER_00: And they followed that, yeah, and they were happy because of it, and they were trying to tell other people that look, I don't know if this is gonna work for you, but this works for me, right?
20:32
SPEAKER_00: And it worked.
20:34
SPEAKER_00: So I'm not saying if everybody did these things, they would find success, but he found success and it really helped him be a co a good coach and it gave him peace of mind.
20:44
SPEAKER_00: And he lived almost to be a hundred, and you can't really argue with that, right?
20:48
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, yeah.
20:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, so when he graduated from grammar school, grammar school is what, like elementary school?
20:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it yeah, like through grade grade 12.
21:00
SPEAKER_00: I think maybe when no, I think grammar school is like oh, through grade five or six, yeah.
21:05
SPEAKER_00: I think maybe in when you're in a small town, they call it grammar school.
21:09
SPEAKER_00: But his dad gave him a card and it had the seven the seven-point creed written on it, and he carried that card with him every day for the rest of his life, and had these seven things.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna read you all seven things, okay, and we're gonna go through each one kind of one by one and talk about what you think about these things.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
21:31
SPEAKER_00: Number one, be true to yourself.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: Number two, make each day your masterpiece.
21:38
SPEAKER_00: Number three, help others.
21:41
SPEAKER_00: Number four, drink deeply from good books, especially the Bible.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: Number five, make friendship a fine art.
21:50
SPEAKER_00: Number six, build a shelter against a rainy day.
21:53
SPEAKER_00: And finally, number seven, pray for guidance and give thanks for your blessings every day.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: So you could see just by those, he was a religious man, but those aren't really uh super uh grounded in scripture or anything.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: They were just the seven things that he lived by.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: Now, it like I said, those are simple to remember, easy to talk about, very hard to live, though.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: Very hard to live by.
22:20
SPEAKER_00: And especially when you're coaching a major college basketball team and getting guys from all over the country with different backgrounds that may not, some of them don't have father figures, some of them have never heard any of this kind of stuff before.
22:35
SPEAKER_00: It could come across as corny, quite frankly, right?
22:38
SPEAKER_00: So you had to kind of have guys recruit guys that could buy into this and be able to live it.
22:45
SPEAKER_00: And he would like he was he he did not compromise the stuff.
22:50
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I don't know if you've ever heard of the guy, um, Bill Walton.
22:53
SPEAKER_00: Have you ever heard of Bill Walton?
22:55
SPEAKER_00: He was a great college, some say the greatest college basketball player of all time.
22:58
SPEAKER_00: No, and he was he was telling him one time, he's like, Um, I can't um uh I forget what it was that he told me.
23:05
SPEAKER_01: But he couldn't do he he played for Wooden?
23:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: He was also seven feet tall, great player.
23:12
SPEAKER_00: And um he was saying that he couldn't couldn't come to what was it?
23:17
SPEAKER_00: He was he had trouble like um oh he wouldn't cut his hair.
23:21
SPEAKER_00: He had he was very strict about things like cutting your hair, um tying your one time he had an entire practice where all they did was practice putting your shoes on, putting your socks and shoes on.
23:34
SPEAKER_00: Like it was all about the little things add up to the big things, and if we don't do the little things right, we'll never get the big things right.
23:41
SPEAKER_00: And so he spent an entire practice just putting shoes on and and and your socks.
23:47
SPEAKER_01: And that was before Velcro, probably.
23:49
SPEAKER_00: Right.
23:50
SPEAKER_00: Bill Walton came to him, and Bill Walton, this was in the 70s, he was a hippie, big, grateful dead guy, and he had long, he was a he was a seven-foot giant with red hair, long hair, and a big beard.
24:03
SPEAKER_00: And he said, Um, the first thing you guys gotta do is you know, have your hair at shoulder length, you know, it's real important.
24:10
SPEAKER_00: And Bill Walton said, Coach, I'm not doing that.
24:13
SPEAKER_00: You know, that's that's it.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: And he says, Well, you know, Bill, um, I respect your um wishes, and we're gonna miss you.
24:21
SPEAKER_00: Well, okay, but we're gonna miss you, like you're thrown off the team.
24:26
SPEAKER_01: Wait a minute.
24:26
SPEAKER_01: What was what what was number one on his list?
24:29
SPEAKER_01: What was the first point?
24:30
SPEAKER_01: Uh the first of the seven points.
24:32
SPEAKER_01: Be true to yourself.
24:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there you go.
24:35
SPEAKER_00: But not if it doesn't, not if it means not cutting your hair, hippie.
24:39
SPEAKER_01: I get I mean, I mean, you know, I think he should have thrown that back in his face and said, uh, be true to yourself.
24:44
SPEAKER_00: Well, back then you didn't really throw things in coaches' faces, right?
24:48
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
24:48
SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna miss you, Bill.
24:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, but you're right.
24:52
SPEAKER_00: And I think you've actually landed on something really important is that some of these things do they contradict each other?
25:00
SPEAKER_00: And if you, like I said, if you take the opposite of these things, you could also make a case for the opposites.
25:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:06
SPEAKER_00: So maybe, maybe for each one of these, we'll talk about, and then I'll talk about the opposite and how you could also say so.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, but for each one of these, I'd like you to talk about maybe how you whether or not you tend to live this way or not.
25:21
SPEAKER_00: Okay, be true to yourself.
25:22
SPEAKER_00: And by being true to yourself, that means be more concerned with your character than your reputation.
25:28
SPEAKER_00: And honesty and hard work matter more than showmanship.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: And in basketball, that's kind of a big deal because you can either like be the you know, the guy who's who's the me, me, me guy, right?
25:41
SPEAKER_00: But if you want it to be all about the team, you have to kind of you know swallow some of that and be more of a character guy than worrying about what other people think about you.
25:51
SPEAKER_00: Is that how you live your life?
25:55
SPEAKER_01: Um I think it's a good goal.
25:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think I told you earlier that I was the one that was worried about what the neighbors would think if our grass was too long, not my parents, you know, and so so that's a little bit of the concern about what people think thing.
26:12
SPEAKER_01: But as far as you know, being a team player and not being uh like the sh like wanting the team to win, I guess I would ask you this.
26:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, from a perspective of the podcast, how do you feel about that with you and I with our relationship on this in this you know sort of semi-business slash social media venture?
26:34
SPEAKER_01: In terms of being true to myself?
26:36
SPEAKER_00: No, no, no, in terms of me being a team player versus just uh versus just uh I think you go back and forth on being being um not being true to yourself, but being um so I guess if the opposite of being true to yourself is reinventing yourself constantly, right?
26:56
SPEAKER_00: Um I think we both do that, right?
27:01
SPEAKER_00: I think you in some ways you kind of being true to yourself in the really strict sense of never change, never you know, never taking anything, or yeah, or sure that could be the the downside of that, right?
27:20
SPEAKER_00: If you're all if you're being so true to yourself that that you're never going outside your comfort zone to use today's language, I think that's a problem.
27:29
SPEAKER_00: And today we talk a lot about authenticity, right?
27:33
SPEAKER_00: Um if the authenticity is what's holding you back, if being true to yourself is what's holding you back, then that's bad advice.
27:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right?
27:42
SPEAKER_00: If being true to yourself means being timid or being too afraid to take a chance on something, or then and never and never actually being willing to or not having an open mind, um, then that can hold you back.
27:58
SPEAKER_00: And being true to yourself can be detrimental um in in that respect.
28:02
SPEAKER_00: I mean, was it being true to yourself when you had blonde hair for your uh wedding?
28:08
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: I I think that's actually a hundred percent, yes, because I was actually doing it because I wanted to do it.
28:16
SPEAKER_01: It was something I wanted to do, and I didn't care what other people thought.
28:21
SPEAKER_01: You know, I got a lot of grief for it, and it was like, hey, I want to do this, you know.
28:25
SPEAKER_01: So I I think it actually was.
28:27
SPEAKER_01: It was a different side, but I was trying something new, right?
28:31
SPEAKER_00: Sure, sure.
28:32
SPEAKER_00: So is that being true to yourself or is that reinventing yourself?
28:36
SPEAKER_01: Um I think it's trying something new, which is yourself because you want to do it, like not letting other people stop you.
28:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
28:47
SPEAKER_01: And and again, I see what you're saying.
28:48
SPEAKER_01: It's it's not authentic because it's not actually what your hair looks like, you know, in real life.
28:54
SPEAKER_01: But it was just like, hey, this looks like fun.
28:56
SPEAKER_01: I didn't expect anybody to think it was real, that it was actually, you know, that's actually what it looks like.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: So you know, but if you're a true self is the type of person that does impulsive things, then that is being true to yourself.
29:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I I don't think I do that very often, you know, impulsive things, but the the interesting thing, if you get back to music, you and I have talked about this a lot.
29:19
SPEAKER_01: Part of the reason I never liked heavy metal or um hair bands was because I felt like they were fake.
29:26
SPEAKER_01: I felt like they were posers, I felt like they were putting on this facade, this act, you know, this kind of like hair and makeup and all that stuff.
29:34
SPEAKER_01: And I much preferred the guys that just wore flannel t-shirts, you know, flannel shirts and t-shirts, and just played the music.
29:42
SPEAKER_01: And and and so, so I guess I it was a little out of character to do the hair, but it was something I just thought would be fun.
29:52
SPEAKER_00: Do you think David Bowie was true to himself?
29:56
SPEAKER_00: 100%, yes.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: So, but he was also that was all like he was playing characters, right?
30:03
SPEAKER_00: But it's what he wanted to do, right?
30:05
SPEAKER_01: It was it was it was something that he enjoyed and something that he felt was uh his talent, right?
30:11
SPEAKER_01: It's what he could bring to the world, yeah.
30:14
SPEAKER_00: So that's where I think that it is that this is a little bit of a circular thing.
30:20
SPEAKER_00: So you could say if you're Bill Walton, you could say, well, that's who I like you said, that's who I am.
30:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm the guy with the long hair, I'm a hippie, I'm being true to myself, but that clashes with well, I don't want guys that stick out, I want people to function as a team.
30:37
SPEAKER_00: I don't want, you know, I don't want showmanship.
30:39
SPEAKER_01: I don't want but I but I think you can function as a team and still be in uh still be unique and authentic collection of characters.
30:47
SPEAKER_00: I think you're right.
30:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
30:49
SPEAKER_00: I think that's what I think.
30:50
SPEAKER_00: I think Wooden would disagree with.
30:51
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we we look at look at Dennis Rodman, right?
30:54
SPEAKER_00: We've we've proven that.
30:55
SPEAKER_00: And he would not play for John Wooden, like that's not a one guy.
30:59
SPEAKER_00: No, and a lot of this is very kind of old school thinking, and that's why this is so interesting to me because you still see that in older coaches, and a lot of older coaches are getting out of the get whatever game they coach, they get out right now because things are changing too rapidly for them.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: And this is one of the one of the ones.
31:23
SPEAKER_00: This be true to yourself is a really interesting conundrum that I think if you're a coach, you have to decide what's where you stand on this.
31:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, do you let your guys be individuals or do you is that detrimental to a team?
31:39
SPEAKER_01: Well, you don't have a choice, you don't have a choice anymore as a coach, right?
31:43
SPEAKER_01: Back back then, you probably had a little bit more autonomy and there were more traditional ways of looking at the world.
31:49
SPEAKER_01: Today, if you kick somebody off the team because of their hair, you would get sued, you would get canceled.
31:55
SPEAKER_01: Well, they would they would trace they would transfer.
31:58
SPEAKER_00: You wouldn't even worry about that.
31:59
SPEAKER_00: They would transfer, they would go to another school.
32:01
SPEAKER_01: But if they didn't want to, and you forced the issue, I don't know if you'd have the ability to say, I'm getting rid of this guy because so so this um what was the what was the long-haired guy?
32:13
SPEAKER_01: What was his name?
32:14
SPEAKER_01: So where did Bill Walton go?
32:18
SPEAKER_00: He came back the next day with with cut with his hair cut.
32:21
SPEAKER_01: Oh, he cut his hair.
32:22
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so he absolutely yeah, you didn't tell that part.
32:25
SPEAKER_01: So uh no, yeah.
32:27
SPEAKER_00: I mean he he um called his bluff.
32:31
SPEAKER_00: Okay, and he said, We're gonna miss you.
32:33
SPEAKER_00: Because he thought, you know, this is a seven-foot guy who's the best college player in the nation.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm not nobody's gonna no man's gonna tell me what to do.
32:42
SPEAKER_00: And he said, Bill, we're gonna miss you.
32:44
SPEAKER_00: That meaning that I you're not bigger than this team, yeah.
32:47
SPEAKER_01: And if I, you know, so yeah, I I I get it.
32:50
SPEAKER_01: It was a program he was running.
32:51
SPEAKER_01: It's just um it might have been right for the time, but I think it's outdated.
32:59
SPEAKER_00: The not be true to yourself, but the whole be don't be individual.
33:05
SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
33:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let's move on to the second one.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: The second one is help others.
33:11
SPEAKER_00: He saw himself, like I told you, he saw himself as a teacher, not just not a coach, and his real meh job was helping people become better people.
33:21
SPEAKER_00: He would refuse to curse at players, he was all about people.
33:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, not that that really gets into the helping others, but like he was all about people.
33:30
SPEAKER_00: Um part of being a man or part of being an adult is helping other people.
33:38
SPEAKER_00: Is that a good way to live your life?
33:40
SPEAKER_00: 100%.
33:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, more we less me.
33:44
SPEAKER_00: Is that because it's a good it makes you feel better or because it's better for the world?
33:50
SPEAKER_00: Both.
33:56
SPEAKER_01: No, no doubt.
33:57
SPEAKER_01: I mean that that in my mind is I that is a very true thing for me.
34:01
SPEAKER_00: So the opposite of this would be look out for number one.
34:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm not a fan of that.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: Set boundaries, say no, and put your oxygen mask on first.
34:11
SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay.
34:12
SPEAKER_01: So so hold on.
34:13
SPEAKER_01: Let me let me go back to that.
34:14
SPEAKER_01: If you don't put your oxygen mask on first, you can't help other people, right?
34:19
SPEAKER_01: You have to survive, you have to feed your family.
34:23
SPEAKER_01: You have there's certain things you have to do in life.
34:25
SPEAKER_01: Self-care.
34:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
34:27
SPEAKER_01: But that doesn't mean when you have an option or when it's something that is, you know, um gonna make you a little bit richer or a little bit um whatever at someone else's expense, I wouldn't do that.
34:44
SPEAKER_01: I would, I would definitely, I again, more we less me is is how I see it.
34:50
SPEAKER_00: Which on a team sport, really, if you uh especially if you're taking guys that have only been selfish, you know, uh up to then, trying to instill this in them.
35:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, you could see how if that could be life-changing for somebody if they see the value in helping others, they really feel like they've grown as a person.
35:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, probably probably you know feels weird the first time you try it.
35:17
SPEAKER_00: Um, but if you have a coach and a mentor there, uh the first time you do it, it feels really good, right?
35:23
SPEAKER_00: Helping somebody else, and then if that becomes your routine and a habit and part of your life, other people are helping you too, is the other side of that is that you've got a team now, everybody's got your back.
35:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think, you know, we both had kids that played sports in high school.
35:43
SPEAKER_00: And one thing that I really liked about having a uh a son playing sports in high school is I I didn't have to worry as much about him getting bullied because I knew there was a I knew there was a team that had his back.
35:56
SPEAKER_00: Right.
35:56
SPEAKER_00: I knew there was a bunch of guys that would would defend him and would take up for him.
36:01
SPEAKER_00: And as opposed to being kind of a loner, um those those kids can get bullied, you know, and that's being a part of a team is a nice thing, and people are helping each other.
36:13
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I I'm down with that one too.
36:15
SPEAKER_00: I like that one.
36:16
SPEAKER_00: Cool.
36:17
SPEAKER_00: Number three, make each day your masterpiece.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: He hated wasting time.
36:24
SPEAKER_00: Like to him, he had every second scheduled, or at least every minute scheduled on um, like every practice was scheduled down to the minute.
36:34
SPEAKER_00: I told you about taking the you know, tying your shoes, your shoes and your socks.
36:38
SPEAKER_00: And if you do the small things right, then eventually you'll do the big things right, and uh detail matters, but no wasted days, don't waste a day.
36:50
SPEAKER_00: What do you think about that?
36:52
SPEAKER_01: I I think it depends on your definition of wasted days, um, because I do think um I I tend to be very like like to get things done, like to multitask, like to have a plan for every day, like to feel like I've accomplished something.
37:12
SPEAKER_01: But then every so often I just feel like hey, I'm just gonna watch TV for a couple of hours.
37:18
SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna play video games for a couple of hours.
37:20
SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna I'm just gonna lay in a hammock and just like look at the world or read.
37:24
SPEAKER_01: You know, is reading considered wasting time?
37:27
SPEAKER_01: I guess he has a thing about that as well.
37:29
SPEAKER_01: But my point is that I I think that you should the words are treat it like a masterpiece, right?
37:40
SPEAKER_01: And so so your masterpiece could be totally different day to day.
37:45
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't always have to be checking boxes off and getting things done.
37:49
SPEAKER_01: It could be it could be literally a day with nothing where you just like think, or where you just reflect, or you just spend time with someone, or you just you know what I mean?
37:59
SPEAKER_01: And so I think back then people thought that busy was effective and that busy was important and that busy was good.
38:07
SPEAKER_01: And I think today people realize that you can be very busy all the time and still be running in a circle.
38:15
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, so I think I agree with the masterpiece part.
38:19
SPEAKER_01: I don't agree with the the don't waste a second, at least from the perspective of how I think he thought of it.
38:24
SPEAKER_01: I think he thought of it as you know, just just laying in a hammock with your wife was wasting time.
38:30
SPEAKER_00: Probably right.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: Well, and I think the 21st century is is against this.
38:36
SPEAKER_00: Like I think today there's a lot of focus on taking mental health days, and creativity needs downtime, and sometimes masterpieces are built on wasted days, you know, and that in order to be healthy tomorrow, you have to rest today.
38:50
SPEAKER_00: And that's a very 21st century way of looking at it.
38:53
SPEAKER_00: I think you're right.
38:54
SPEAKER_00: I think you grew up on a farm in the 1920s and 19 in the teens.
39:00
SPEAKER_01: You are out there, you know, milking the cows, and you're not wasting any you didn't you didn't have time to just read or sit around or or whatever.
39:08
SPEAKER_01: Um, but but yeah, it it and but the word wasted is a very negative.
39:14
SPEAKER_01: It sounds like you just aren't doing anything, you aren't you aren't committing to anything, you aren't accomplishing anything.
39:20
SPEAKER_01: Whereas I I feel like you could use a different word, you know, it's like um downtime, it's recharge, it's you know, other kinds of connections.
39:29
SPEAKER_00: I think I'm stuck between these two worlds because at the end of each day, I do evaluate my day, and I beat myself up a lot for not being as productive as I wanted it to be.
39:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, and um, like when I hit my head on my pillow, when I've had a good, productive day, I really feel good, and when I haven't, I really feel bad.
39:53
SPEAKER_00: And it's probably a remnant of this kind of thinking.
39:57
SPEAKER_00: You know, this 20th century thinking is that every day has to be a masterpiece, and sometimes my days aren't masterpieces, and I get mad about that.
40:06
SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't but again, masterpiece that's a very subjective word.
40:11
SPEAKER_00: That's his word or his dad's word.
40:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, imagine giving this to a grade school kid, though.
40:18
SPEAKER_00: Like, here you go, son.
40:20
SPEAKER_00: He graduates from grammar school and he's like, All right, make every day your masterpiece.
40:25
SPEAKER_00: That seems like so much pressure as a little kid to like, you know, make every day your masterpiece.
40:31
SPEAKER_01: I I I view that more as, and this gets to the I think number seven, um, appreciation for every day, appreciation for the opportunity.
40:39
SPEAKER_01: Don't, don't, even if you don't do anything or accomplish anything in the traditional sense, appreciate the fact that you have that opportunity every day.
40:47
SPEAKER_01: Like, wake up, rise, you know, a live alert, awake, enthusiastic, rise and shine.
40:54
SPEAKER_00: Do you find too that some of these it's easier, and this is where kind of the coaching comes in.
41:00
SPEAKER_00: Some of these, when I read them, I'm like, oh yeah, these are things that I used to tell my kid to do, but I don't necessarily practice them.
41:08
SPEAKER_00: Like, I want them, like that's the coaching part, right?
41:11
SPEAKER_00: Like, these are good things to tell other people to do, very hard to actually do.
41:15
SPEAKER_00: Do as I say, not as I do.
41:19
SPEAKER_00: Number four was the thing about the books.
41:21
SPEAKER_00: Drink deeply.
41:22
SPEAKER_00: I love the word drink here.
41:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, drink deeply from good books.
41:27
SPEAKER_00: And he used to quote poets in practice a lot.
41:30
SPEAKER_00: You know, he he was really into literature and poetry.
41:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, you you made up a good point before.
41:38
SPEAKER_00: There's some there's there's this idea that reading is not wasting your time, but watching TV is, you know, when these days it's similar muscles that you're using if you're thinking about you know characters and stories, and and now when you're when you're listening to a book, is that the same thing as watching a TV show, or is the same thing as reading a book?
42:00
SPEAKER_00: And I wonder what he would think about audiobooks.
42:02
SPEAKER_00: Is that the same thing is right, exactly.
42:05
SPEAKER_00: So I know you I know you're a reader.
42:08
SPEAKER_00: He was a little um probably snobbish or pretentious when it came to his, you know, it says drink deeply from good books.
42:17
SPEAKER_00: He didn't want you reading trash.
42:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, he probably would hate like reality TV, yeah.
42:23
SPEAKER_03: Kardashians, right?
42:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, I know you get value from from reading.
42:30
SPEAKER_00: What do you what do you get from reading?
42:33
SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, I do a lot of it.
42:35
SPEAKER_01: Uh there's probably two main types of books that I read, and one is um historical books about people, you know, Olive Oatman or Teddy Roosevelt or um Neil Armstrong, whatever.
42:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then the other one would be a lot of business books and kind of like um self-help kind of books, more about yeah.
42:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, I I it's funny, I actually got this book called Let Them, and it's about kind of letting people do their thing and not trying to get in the way and stop it.
43:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's an audiobook.
43:08
SPEAKER_01: Jody and I share the Audible account, and she started listening to it, and she's like, Did you get that for me?
43:13
SPEAKER_01: And I said, No, I just thought it sounded interesting.
43:16
SPEAKER_01: You know, it was something that I thought would be, and she's like, It is, it is, it's really good.
43:19
SPEAKER_01: My point is that I think you should always be curious, you should always be trying to learn.
43:26
SPEAKER_01: And so I, you know, back then reading was the only option, right?
43:30
SPEAKER_01: TV wasn't his his father, TV wasn't an option, podcasts weren't an option, YouTube wasn't an option, all that.
43:37
SPEAKER_01: But most of the time what I try to what I try to gain from it is educational.
43:43
SPEAKER_01: So I want to learn.
43:45
SPEAKER_01: I'm curious.
43:45
SPEAKER_01: I want to learn about a person, I want to learn how to do something, I want to learn how to be better at something.
43:52
SPEAKER_01: And so that's what I get out of it is is almost rarely out of fiction.
43:57
SPEAKER_01: Fiction.
43:57
SPEAKER_01: No, no, very rarely, occasionally.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: Like science fiction, I like some science fiction occasionally, but even that I feel like is kind of like stretching my mind creatively.
44:08
SPEAKER_01: Um, poetry, I I like poetry, I like listening to it, but not something that I would necessarily think he was really into poetry and fiction and the classics.
44:20
SPEAKER_01: Um but can I can I can I throw in something?
44:23
SPEAKER_01: Can music be considered poetry?
44:25
SPEAKER_01: Because I think a lot of it is very poetic, and I'll listen, I listen to lyrics very closely and very critically.
44:34
SPEAKER_01: And so when I hear something that really resonates lyrically with me, I almost feel like that is poetry.
44:40
SPEAKER_00: Sure, sure.
44:41
SPEAKER_00: I think I think his he would probably have said, or his dad would have said, that you know, when you when you consume this kind of stuff, it you know, metaphors help you look at life in a different way.
44:56
SPEAKER_00: And music's full of metaphors.
44:58
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
44:58
SPEAKER_00: No, yeah, I I agree.
45:00
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I mean, I again this is a different time when he's getting this thing in the 19 teens.
45:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm not sure the quality of music or even the ability to listen to music was that common.
45:13
SPEAKER_00: I think Bill Walton would tell you that yeah, he probably reads a lot, but he was also a deadhead, you know.
45:20
SPEAKER_00: Um and um would probably tell you that he that number four is uh all about, you know, um music and poetry is is the same thing.
45:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think I think that's fine.
45:33
SPEAKER_01: And and going back because part of it mentions the Bible, right?
45:36
SPEAKER_01: Um going back to the Bible, I feel like the Bible is a guide to a moral life, right?
45:44
SPEAKER_01: It's it's stories and parables and commandments, and thou shalt and thou shalt not, and be attitudes.
45:49
SPEAKER_01: It's all it's all it's it's a guide to a moral life, and so back then again, not a lot of options.
45:57
SPEAKER_01: It was a book with a lot of stories about how to be a good person, how to be a giver, how to love similar to these seven screen, these seven creeds, right?
46:06
SPEAKER_01: I mean, this yeah, the seven habits of highly affected people.
46:09
SPEAKER_01: I mean, those are you know, that's that's another Stephen Covey.
46:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
46:14
SPEAKER_00: Now I I guess the opposite of this would be, you know, the things that we do today in terms of doom scrolling and watching junk things, not everything has to be classics.
46:26
SPEAKER_01: I hate that.
46:27
SPEAKER_01: I I do it sometimes, but but generally, if I catch myself doing, I really try to stop.
46:32
SPEAKER_01: I as a matter of fact, it's funny.
46:34
SPEAKER_00: What doom scrolling or just like just like going through Instagram or TikTok or something?
46:41
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I don't ever look at Instagram or TikTok, but I do watch a lot of YouTube because I have a presence on YouTube.
46:48
SPEAKER_01: And so, but I find myself recently I've been trying to be more proactive because you can actually go on YouTube and you can say, not interested, or don't show me this channel again.
46:58
SPEAKER_01: And so I've been doing more of that to try and get I love like home repair stuff, I love bike stuff, I love drone stuff, I love music stuff.
47:08
SPEAKER_01: There, there's a lot of city shorts.
47:10
SPEAKER_01: Dirt Knap City shorts are amazing.
47:13
SPEAKER_01: Good job, Chris.
47:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, I mean they're funny and they're and they're a good teaser, and it's you and me.
47:18
SPEAKER_01: And so so I guess I try to be selective in my scrolling, um, but that wasn't an option for them back then, and so it's it's kind of a hard comparison, not an apple status.
47:30
SPEAKER_00: It is not only is it a hard comparison, but the idea of entertainment that that lasts 15 seconds.
47:39
SPEAKER_01: Well, but they didn't have those they did have those little little things that you turn the crank and it was like a horse running or you know sure, or a jack in the box.
47:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it was like it was like a little animated gif.
47:51
SPEAKER_01: It just did the same thing over and over again.
47:53
SPEAKER_01: Um, but but I do I do feel like he was saying, don't I mean I consider that stuff brain rot, you know, to to watch some of those things is just just brain rot.
48:06
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm that is one area where maybe I'm a bit old-fashioned.
48:10
SPEAKER_00: Is that an old guy, just an old guy talking, though?
48:13
SPEAKER_00: Because that's the way our parents talked about MTV, you know.
48:16
SPEAKER_00: Uh not my parents.
48:18
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
48:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, number five, make friendship a fine art.
48:24
SPEAKER_00: I actually love this one.
48:25
SPEAKER_00: Um and for for coaching, it's it was really important that his teams weren't built around superstars, they were built around team chemistry.
48:34
SPEAKER_00: And just the whole idea about team chemistry, I think he kind of originated that idea that he felt that his players had to care for each other as people and not just as athletes.
48:45
SPEAKER_00: And um that was really important to him.
48:49
SPEAKER_00: The biggest thing for him though, and this is this is very I might make you cry here when I talk about this.
48:56
SPEAKER_00: His marriage was his greatest friendship.
49:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, he married his high school sweetheart.
49:02
SPEAKER_00: They met when they were freshmen in high school.
49:04
SPEAKER_00: They got married in 1932.
49:06
SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
49:10
SPEAKER_00: They were married for 53 years.
49:12
SPEAKER_00: His wife died in 1985.
49:16
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, he lived to 2010.
49:19
SPEAKER_00: Um she died on the 21st of the month, and then on the 21st of every month after that, he would write a letter, address it, sign it, fold it neatly, and put it on her pillow.
49:33
SPEAKER_00: And he kept her pillow exactly intact as it was when she was alive.
49:38
SPEAKER_00: And on the 21st of every month, he would put that note on her pillow.
49:42
SPEAKER_00: And they would be like updates on his life or reflections on their marriage or how much he was uh he was uh thankful for their love and long for when they would be reunited.
49:55
SPEAKER_00: He did this every month for 25 years, um, 260 times.
50:02
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so here's an example of one of the notes.
50:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, it would say, I don't try to say much, honey, because I can't write what I feel.
50:10
SPEAKER_00: What I feel is so much more than I can ever say.
50:13
SPEAKER_00: I miss you so much, and I love you forever.
50:15
SPEAKER_00: Your old partner, Johnny.
50:18
SPEAKER_00: Like that's just cool, right?
50:20
SPEAKER_00: It is nice, yeah.
50:21
SPEAKER_00: Um it wasn't about just reminiscing, it was about continuing the relationship.
50:26
SPEAKER_00: Even after she was gone, he would he was continuing this friendship, this relationship.
50:32
SPEAKER_00: Um he said, if I ever if I were ever offered the chance to coach again or have his wife was uh Nelly or have Nell back, I wouldn't hesitate one second.
50:43
SPEAKER_00: I'd pick Nell every time.
50:46
SPEAKER_00: Um and I think that whole friendship as a fine art, you know, extending to his relationship with her, yeah, his old partner.
50:55
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
50:56
SPEAKER_00: I think making a friendship of fine art is uh is a really important thing in life.
51:02
SPEAKER_00: What do you think about that?
51:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, I agree with the the concept.
51:08
SPEAKER_01: I feel like the letter thing is a little sappy and sentimental.
51:12
SPEAKER_01: And like I don't even like sending people cards or getting cards, like like birthday cards or that's his thing, not your thing.
51:20
SPEAKER_01: No, I know, but I'm just saying I I I guess to me there's a difference in friendship as a fine art.
51:26
SPEAKER_01: Like, like yeah, I I I don't know.
51:31
SPEAKER_01: I I I don't disagree with the concept of it, but I would never probably do what he did in that situation.
51:39
SPEAKER_00: So the opposite of this is go it alone.
51:43
SPEAKER_00: That the idea that solitude and independence can be really powerful, and if you have a small inner circle, it could lead to less drama and more focus on what's important in your life.
51:55
SPEAKER_01: I so I don't think go it alone by any means, but I do think a small inner circle is good.
52:01
SPEAKER_01: I I I personally feel like I don't have enough time for my friends that that I want to spend time with, and so having more friends and meeting new people and going out, I I try to be very selective about that.
52:14
SPEAKER_00: I always thought if you have a lot of friends, it's almost the same as having no friends, probably.
52:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because you can't possibly maintain all those relationships right unless they're very superficial, right?
52:27
SPEAKER_00: You know, right?
52:28
SPEAKER_00: Um so but you can probably do both.
52:32
SPEAKER_00: You can probably have a small inner circle and make friendship.
52:35
SPEAKER_00: In fact, maybe the only way you can make friendship of fine art is if you have a small inner circle.
52:40
SPEAKER_00: If you're on a basketball team and you've you've just got the guys on your team, that's a pretty small circle, right?
52:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
52:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and it doesn't mean you can't be nice to people and you can't socialize with people and you know just have have those sort of more superficial relationships and help other people out, but but you know, you want to be I don't they say that you are the your personality or who you are is sort of an average of the five people you spend the most time with or something.
53:11
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I believe that or not, but maybe I mean there's that it's it's not maybe not exactly, but I think there's some truth in it.
53:20
SPEAKER_00: Number six, build a shelter against a rainy day.
53:23
SPEAKER_00: Um, I know you like this one.
53:26
SPEAKER_00: Um don't let yeah, it's raining right now.
53:30
SPEAKER_00: Don't let making a living prevent you from making a life, is what he said.
53:35
SPEAKER_00: Um he he lived in the same two-bedroom condo his whole life, lived and drove an old beat-up car, he clipped coupons, and you know, um guys today in his position are making you know six, seven million dollars a year.
53:52
SPEAKER_00: Um I personally don't live this um frugally.
54:01
SPEAKER_00: No, I think that for me that that would be um that doesn't make me happy.
54:10
SPEAKER_00: Saving doesn't give me that joy.
54:12
SPEAKER_00: Spending gives me joy.
54:14
SPEAKER_00: I mean, not spending above my means, but I don't feel any satisfaction from saving money.
54:22
SPEAKER_01: You do um you know, it's interesting you say that because I I've been in situations where it's really tight and really tough, and I hate that, right?
54:35
SPEAKER_01: It's it's uh it's it's it's a tough spot and it's very mentally draining and very emotionally draining.
54:41
SPEAKER_01: So to to not put yourself in that position, to kind of build up enough of a um you know buoy around you that you will never fall into that position.
54:52
SPEAKER_01: That's important to me, you know, at this point in life.
54:55
SPEAKER_01: I I realize that that would I rather have a fancy car or a new car or not have to worry about finances.
55:05
SPEAKER_01: I'd rather not have to worry about finances.
55:07
SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, yeah, I love gadgets.
55:10
SPEAKER_01: I love um, you know, I love spending time with friends, I love taking trips and making memories with my kids.
55:17
SPEAKER_01: You know, I feel like there have been trips that we've taken, my wife and I, with our kids, that are irreplaceable and they were a lot of money.
55:25
SPEAKER_01: Could we could could we have saved it?
55:26
SPEAKER_01: Could we have put it into an IRA?
55:28
SPEAKER_01: Could we have put it into a 401k or or 529 for college?
55:32
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
55:32
SPEAKER_01: And and uh that might have been the smart financial move.
55:35
SPEAKER_01: But do I regret taking the trip and like having those memories?
55:39
SPEAKER_01: No.
55:40
SPEAKER_00: Right.
55:40
SPEAKER_00: So remember, I guess the key is I didn't say he didn't say be frugal.
55:46
SPEAKER_00: He said build a shelter against a rainy day.
55:49
SPEAKER_00: So then the key is to figure out what does that rainy day look like and when and how likely is it to come, and how much would it have to rain in order to make you wet?
56:00
SPEAKER_01: Well, and that that might also be that's not just financial, right?
56:03
SPEAKER_01: That could be about the kind of friends you have and the circle of people you have around you and your support system, and I mean it and and also physical, right?
56:11
SPEAKER_01: Is is keeping yourself in good enough shape that you you know you can weather physical things too.
56:18
SPEAKER_00: So I think prepare for the worst, right?
56:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
56:21
SPEAKER_01: Plan for the best, but prepare for the worst.
56:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's true.
56:24
SPEAKER_00: And then if you think about that, then the opposite of that isn't necessarily treating yourself or eating dessert or whatever or YOLO.
56:33
SPEAKER_00: Um because saving pennies, as we've just said, can sometimes make you lit miss life.
56:41
SPEAKER_00: Like yeah, you can't take away.
56:44
SPEAKER_00: No, you're saying just build a shelter against a rainy day, you know, yeah.
56:48
SPEAKER_01: I agree, I agree.
56:49
SPEAKER_01: But but you're right.
56:50
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's like it's like you only get to do this once, and so the yellow, right?
56:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, and if if I hadn't done some things with my family and my kids, and and my parents and my sister and you know, my everybody else, I wouldn't have those good memories, you know, and those things those things were could have been considered extravagances, you know, in some books.
57:15
SPEAKER_00: And the final thing you touched on it earlier.
57:18
SPEAKER_00: Um pray for guidance, but most importantly, give thanks for your blessings every day.
57:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, I love this quote of his things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things turn out.
57:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, I love that.
57:33
SPEAKER_00: Um a few years ago, I think it was about four or five years ago, I made a conscious decision to practice more gratitude in my life and to tell people thank you a lot more than I had been doing, and making it a daily habit of thanking people when they do something that I appreciate.
57:56
SPEAKER_00: Wait, wait, yeah, did I miss this?
58:01
SPEAKER_00: As soon as you do something I appreciate.
58:06
SPEAKER_00: Um it made a big difference in my life, actually.
58:09
SPEAKER_00: Like making that conscious choice to do that.
58:13
SPEAKER_00: Um and I didn't even really understand at the time that it was gonna make that difference.
58:19
SPEAKER_00: I was just kind of mad that like I had missed a couple opportunities in a row.
58:24
SPEAKER_00: Like, oh man, I should have thanked him for that, or I should have told her that I enjoyed that.
58:29
SPEAKER_00: And then I decided to consciously do that, and then it like took off.
58:34
SPEAKER_00: And now it became kind of a habit.
58:36
SPEAKER_00: And I really love that part of my day.
58:38
SPEAKER_00: Like that when I sit down at the end of my day and think about the things that I enjoyed for that day, it was usually like those kind of things.
58:47
SPEAKER_00: Like I remember to thank her for making my life easier by doing this, or I remember to show that tell that person that I appreciated this.
58:56
SPEAKER_00: And those are like the little gifts in life that uh the little hidden gifts that if if you're not careful, you'll miss it, right?
59:05
SPEAKER_00: But you they like make life worth living.
59:08
SPEAKER_01: Well, and and and I think when you do that, it spreads like it makes the other people more conscious of doing that themselves, you know.
59:15
SPEAKER_00: It's paying it forward, right?
59:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it is a pay it forward kind of thing.
59:19
SPEAKER_00: And and when you're on the receiving end of that, when somebody thanks you for something, it really, really feels nice, right?
59:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, especially when you aren't expecting it, you haven't prompted it.
59:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's sincere, you know, and it's authentic.
59:33
SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
59:34
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Alex.
59:36
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for the podcast.
59:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you for for doing it with me, man.
59:40
SPEAKER_01: I couldn't think of a better co-host.
59:43
SPEAKER_00: So if you want to know more about John Wooden, I mean he does a whole pyramid of success that I didn't get into, more of a what he shared with like business folks and how to get competitive greatness.
59:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, today I wanted to focus on the seven ways to live your life.
59:59
SPEAKER_00: Like I said, I would kind of end this stuff with Dale Carnegie and Mr.
1:00:03
SPEAKER_00: Rogers and Johnny Appleseed.
1:00:05
SPEAKER_00: It's just people that kind of have have life figured out.
1:00:08
SPEAKER_00: And I think as we age, I think we're kind of looking for that.
1:00:12
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I like to impart wisdom of other people, so I'm always trying to find out where I can.
1:00:17
SPEAKER_00: Again, this might not work for you, but if you're born in 1910 in a farm in Indiana, worked out pretty well for a guy that lived almost a hundred years.
1:00:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, so thanks for your uh attention uh to this uh to this podcast, and uh see you next time.
1:00:34
SPEAKER_02: Go out there and live your life the best you can from Indiana's place.
1:00:53
SPEAKER_02: Unbound by the chance.