Latest / The United States of Us / "Marriage Is Not Consent" | Marital Rape and Healing

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"Marriage Is Not Consent" | Marital Rape and Healing · The United States of Us

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Clair: I just kept thinking, like, well, this is just my life. Like, I didn't
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know anything was wrong, I just thought, this is how life is.
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And honestly, it was when the Me Too movement started.
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And all these women were coming forward of, like.
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saying these things, like, this person did this, and this
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person did this, and in my mind, and I don't… I don't
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want to, like, diminish anyone's…
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story… large or small, but in my mind, I was like.
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that's not a big deal. Like, why is she complaining about that?
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Because in my mind, all that stuff was happening to me.
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Tammy: Hello, hello, hello, and welcome, everyone, to
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episode 19 of the United States of Us.
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We have a very special guest today, and we have a very
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important and sensitive topic to talk about today.
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So, I'm gonna let Lori read a message that we have directed to all
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of our viewers and listeners today, and if you hear yourself in it
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anywhere, just know that there are resources for you. Feel free to
1:12
reach out to us at the podcast.
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Or a local resource that might be available to you.
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Lori: Great. Thank you, Tammy. Yeah, before… before we begin.
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We want to acknowledge that today's conversation touches
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on a deeply personal and often misunderstood subject,
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which is marital rape, or spousal rape.
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We want to be clear about something important.
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Marriage is not consent.
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And love is never an entitlement to another person's body.
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Every person deserves to feel safe.
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Respected, and valued in their relationship.
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Every person has the right to say no,
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regardless of their marital status.
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Their history with their partner.
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Or the promises they made when they married.
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For anyone listening who has experienced sexual
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violation within a marriage or relationship.
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We want you to hear this.
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You are not to blame.
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You did not deserve it.
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And you are not alone.
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You may have spent years questioning your experience.
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Struggling to find words for what happened.
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Or believing that no one would understand.
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Whatever you are feeling, you deserve compassion, support, and the
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freedom to make your own choices about your healing.
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Today, we are holding space for one woman's story.
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We thank you, Clair, for your courage in sharing your experience.
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And we ask our listeners to receive her words with open hearts.
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Without judgment, and with respect to her privacy.
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Our hope is that conversations like this
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can help break the silence.
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Challenge harmful beliefs.
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And remind every person that true love does not demand control.
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Threaten or violate.
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True love honors, respects, and protects.
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Because at the heart of the United States of us.
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We believe that love, connection, and courage can help us
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create a world where every person feels safe enough to be
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heard and valued enough to be respected.
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Tammy: Thank you so much, Lori, for that message.
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It feels very important right now for us to talk
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about this, especially in light of
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Everything that seems to be, becoming uncovered, in what we
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know about people, and what we know about.
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the reality that's happening all around us. We talk
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about the Cornell 57, and how it's possible that
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anything like that could happen, and…
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I know, you know, it's been a few minutes since I was in
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college, but that is something that I heard about happening when
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I was in college, you know? It's nothing new, it's just not
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being covered up as much as it used to be.
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date rape we've heard about, you know, since we were young. And,
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It just feels like there is such a prevalence, and there are so
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many people hurting as a result of this, and not only the women
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are being hurt by this. The men who are perpetuating this sort
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of violence are also hurting.
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And that has been one of our biggest goals, is to help
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bring all of us together. United States of us means
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unity, and we can't heal women
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without healing men. So, I want to make that very clear, that this is
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not a… a session where we're just going to beat up on
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abusive men, we are going to look at all aspects of this. So…
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without, further words from me, I want to introduce Clair,
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and thank you again, Clair, for being with us today. And
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we're just gonna let you start your story wherever you
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feel like your story starts.
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Clair: Okay, thank you so much for having me on
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here today. So, I guess… Recap…
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Well, let's see… where do I want to start?
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the reason… I guess I want to say, like, the reason that my face
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is not shown is for protection of, you know, my…
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ex-spouse, and…
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everyone involved, because I am, like, healed, I've
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forgiven, like, I'm on the other side, and it was…
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Quite the journey to get here, but it's been an amazing journey.
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And, you know, I am… I have a good relationship with him now, and, you
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know, there's been some real healing for both of us, and…
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you know, I don't see him as a bad person, you know, he
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wasn't a great husband to me, but I think he's a great
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husband to his current family, and I think he's… I mean, he…
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I know he's a wonderful person, so…
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You know, it was unfortunate, but it has taught me so many
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lessons, and it has put me where I am now in my life.
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And so, the way that I see…
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you know, my life and the perspective of this
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Earth journey, Is that that was…
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something that was preset before we came to Earth.
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Before… yeah, like, you know, like, we made a deal that I wanted to
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learn certain lessons, and I wanted to become a certain…
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person, or, you know, I wanted a certain journey, I
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wanted a certain soul growth, and that's what…
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he did for me through this. So, but looking back on that, and
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so, with everyone in our lives, I see that. We've… we've had
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these pre-contracts, and I have had a path I wanted to learn,
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and when we come down and we forget.
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It's, it seems painful, it seems like a lot of
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suffering, it seems confusing.
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But…
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it's… when you look back from… from this point, it's so…
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it's… it's a very… it's a cool perspective, and so I look
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back and I see how, you know, I was raised,
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My mom and my dad were fairly,
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misogynistic, which is, you know, they just didn't
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look highly upon women. They just didn't.
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Tammy: Right.
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Clair: the women as, you know, I was in a religion where men were…
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More than women, and women were just here to serve, you know, so…
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So I set… I was set up from there to think less of
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myself, to, you know, to not love myself.
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to think I was beneath men.
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And so, obviously, that was the frequency I had,
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so I attracted that kind of spouse.
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And he proved to me over and over how I felt about myself, which
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was worthless and terrible, you know? Like, because…
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if anyone's had, you know, I think most people, especially
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women, have had some sort of sexual trauma in their life.
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It's just kind of the society we live in.
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Tammy: And…
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Clair: It's… it's unpleasant in all of its forms.
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But it's just, you know, you think, you hear about it so
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often that we've almost even become numb to it.
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But, when someone is doing something to your body
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that you don't want them to do.
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It does something to your mind, where you have to justify
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why would this person be doing this to me? And for me, my
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justification was, well, because I… I'm terrible, and I'm worthless,
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and so why wouldn't he? Like, I'm, you know, I'm… I'm trash, or
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whatever, you know, you have to rationalize it somehow in your brain to…
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To be able to…
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live on, you know, and so that… I made that
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okay. I made that okay, and…
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Let's see, just, like, a timestamp. We kind of, you know,
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it started quickly after we got married.
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You know, the first time, I was, you know, I was not feeling well is
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when it happened, and so I couldn't fight them off.
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Tammy: How old were you, Clair, when you got married?
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Clair: I was 26.
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Tammy: Okay.
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Clair: Yeah, so I was… I was old enough. I was… I was raised
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fairly sheltered, you know, I just…
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And he had attempted once before that, and I fought him off.
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Because I, you know, and in my brain, I was just like, that
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was weird, like, what was that, you know? We hadn't been
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married very long, I was like, I guess…
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you know, I didn't know. So the second time, when I wasn't feeling
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well, and I couldn't fight him off, and afterwards, I was just, like,
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laying there, I was crying, and he had left.
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And I crawled myself into the bathroom to, like,
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sit in the shower, and I was just…
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you know, it's… it set… that kind of was a set point. Like.
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And I… I… because I am a believer that, you know, we create… like,
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we're in charge, and I didn't know then, you know, I have… I have so
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much love for that version of myself, I didn't have the tools I have
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now, I didn't have the knowledge I have now.
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So I just… I was scared, and I didn't know what to do, and…
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You know, we were not at our own home, we were
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at family's homes, so I didn't…
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You know, I didn't want to make a scene, I didn't know, and now,
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when I think back, I wish I would have made a scene.
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screamed and kicked and thrown something and hit him in the face,
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and, you know, I should have made that a bigger deal.
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But because of all of my programming, or, you
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know, and my fear, I just… kind of…
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built with it on my own, you know, I try to love
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Out of the bedroom, and he came in and just kind
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of pretended nothing had happened.
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And… We didn't… we didn't talk about it, like, you
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know, we didn't talk about that.
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For years, or until we were exiting the marriage,
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which was, you know, over a decade long.
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And so that kind of set the standard, like, I need a
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time to heal from that, I need a time to…
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process it, but, you know, in a couple of days, he was ready
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for more, and I wasn't, so he just had… that became the way he
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got intercourse in our marriage, because…
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you know, I was never able to, like, kind of catch my breath, or
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process what was happening. You know, it would happen
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You know, every few days, and so… I had such a desire.
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to be a good wife. Like, I've always wanted to be a
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wife, I was excited to be a wife.
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I really wanted to be a good wife, you know, I, so I figured, okay,
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well, I guess this is what marriage is, maybe, and I need to be the
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best I can. You know, I wanted to support him in his, like, goals
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and dreams. His goals and dreams were my goals and dreams. I was
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just really trying to be…
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you know, now I see that as I was self- sacrificing,
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and people-pleasing, and all of those things now, but
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at that point, I was just like.
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I want to be a good wife, I want him to be a success, I want to do
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what I need to do to help him be the best he can be, and if this
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is what it takes, then I guess I'll just…
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do that. So I was… I got really good at disassociating.
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Tammy: Right?
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Clair: I just would go to a happy place, and just, you know, but
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it got to the point where, like, I would feel sick
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afterwards. Like, my body was sick, I,
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I had to adjust, like, you know,
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it would happen about every 3 days. 3 days, he would get pretty
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grumpy if he, you know, he didn't have sex, so…
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And so we had this kind of pattern every third day.
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So, I would have to alter the way I ate, alter the way I did
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things, because I'm like, okay, it's gonna happen, like, I
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don't want to eat too much, because it made… my whole system
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was just sick afterwards, you know?
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So, you know, I try to, like, Be in a position
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you know, in a situation where it could be… just happen quick and
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be done, like, I just… I just wanted… because then, afterwards, I
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had, like, two days of, like, like, just kind of, okay, I'm okay
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for a couple of days, and then it ramped up, and I'm like, okay,
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don't eat today, like…
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it's just, you know, I was… and in my mind, I wasn't fully aware of
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what was happening to me. I just… because, you know, I had never been
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married before, my parents didn't have a great marriage, I was like,
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maybe this is what marriage is, I don't know.
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So I just kept trying to be that good wife, you know, I cooked
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and cleaned and made up, you know, I'd still get up and make him
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all of his meals and stuff, and I just…
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I…
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Yeah, that was our life. It was… it was just a loop, and I remember
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asking him once, like, we need to, like, do something, like, start
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over. Can we, like, get divorced and get married again? Like,
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because in my mind, I just needed a break. I needed just to stop,
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heal, and then… because, I mean, in my marriage, I wanted to have a
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good sex life in my marriage.
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You know, I didn't hate sex, I didn't… I wanted to have a
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wonderful, intimate relationship with my spouse, like, that was
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something I deeply wanted, but I couldn't get my head above water
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without, you know, being raped again, and so…
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I remember asking him that, and he was like, no, no, no,
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no, it's too much work, too busy, like, you know, so it
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just kind of kept continuing on.
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And… I, you know, I just kind of disappeared into
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myself and accepted this as normal.
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And then, when our child was, born.
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you know.
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things kind of shifted for me, because my focus now was no longer
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fully on him. I had something else to focus on.
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And so I just… I pushed him. I pushed him away. And I
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actually… I left his bed, and I moved into the nursery,
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because I just needed less access.
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And so, you know.
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I'm sure that was terrible for him. Like, now, you know,
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like, looking at his perspective, I just…
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It could not have been.
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easy, but that's how all my brain could figure out what to do. I
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didn't have a lot of support from my family in it, because just of…
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who he was. He was just a wonderful person,
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and… In everyone's mind, and…
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I didn't know what to do, and so I moved out, and then it got worse
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there, because now he'd literally have to hunt me down. He would hide
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in the shadows when I would get up in the middle of the night, or hide
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in the closet when I came out of the shower, or drag me out of my bed.
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You know, like… like, real…
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Weird stuff was happening.
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So,
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I just kept thinking, like, well, this is just my life. Like, I didn't
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know anything was wrong, I just thought, this is how life is.
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And honestly, it was when the Me Too movement started.
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And all these women were coming forward of, like.
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saying these things, like, this person did this, and this
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person did this, and in my mind, and I don't… I don't
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want to, like, diminish anyone's…
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story… large or small, but in my mind, I was like.
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that's not a big deal. Like, why is she complaining
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about that? Because in my mind, all that stuff was
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happening to me. Like, so much of my.
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Tammy: Right.
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Clair: And it was just normal that it was shocking to me that these women
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were coming up and complaining about these things. I'm like, is that a
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wrong thing? And it started making my brain work, like…
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are these things wrong? And I started, like,
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getting… finding stories of
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like, particular situations that had happened between he and I, and
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when he had, like, come home, I would tell him about. I'm like, oh,
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here's a story I heard about on the Me Too, you know?
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And I just watched his face, because I wanted to see if
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there was any recognition of, like, oh, shit, that's
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what I'm doing, you know, like…
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I… and so I would tell him these stories, and I kind of… he was kind
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of like, oh, that's so terrible, but I think there was some
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recognition, because, you know, it had become so normal for us that
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it was just how things were. So, that was a big movement for
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me, to kind of realize what was happening.
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And to… like, I didn't know even how to get
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out. Like, honestly, my way out…
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I just kind of decided to shut down my body.
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Like, I didn't want to kill myself.
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But I didn't want to live anymore. It was too much, and it was all,
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like, the truth was coming, and I was clair on what…
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was happening, and I was just like, I need to get out of this,
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you know, and I mean, I had a child, and I was like, I don't
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want to leave this child, but I can't… I don't know where to go.
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I didn't have support from my family, like, I couldn't have gone
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to stay with any of them.
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I don't think anyone would have really believed me, like, I just… I
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felt so stuck that I just kind of told my body, like, let's… let's
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leave without leaving, right? And so I did, like, I lost…
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I got very, very underweight. My skin was turning gray.
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And eventually, that's kind of what…
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like, he noticed, he's like, I'm afraid you're gonna die,
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you know? And I was like, I'm okay with that, like, that's
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kind of the plan here, like, you know?
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Tammy: Interesting.
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Clair: So that was, the end of the marriage,
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like, you know, you know, we…
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Tried to talk about stuff for a minute, and
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that's… and that was the point when
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We finally brought up that very first time.
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that was the time. I mean, it had been over a decade since it
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happened, and we hadn't even… that was the first time we kind
20:22
of talked about it, and he, you know, acknowledged that
20:25
that's what it… you know, like…
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Tammy: Right.
20:28
Clair: So, I found, you know, a friend that helped me kind of get out.
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And I knew, like… okay, you know, I need help,
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because my mind is not alright, and
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I just wanted to get healed quickly. I didn't want to be… you know,
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I'd already spent a lot of time in that situation.
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And now I wanted to be healed. I wanted to be done with that
20:54
part of my life. So, you know, I started going to therapy, I
20:58
started to look at, you know, any kind of
21:00
Healing modalities just to, like, help me.
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Heal as quickly as possible, and…
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Therapy helped for a while, because, you know, I gotta get my story
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out, I gotta, like, tell somebody else to kind of…
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Get it out of my… my mind, but after a while.
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it didn't help. Like, it… actually, I felt like it hurt, because now
21:22
I… I kept talking about it, and I needed, you know, like, I would
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wake up, and the whole… my whole life would kind of just ruminate in
21:29
my head all day, like, that was just what my… was going on, the movie
21:33
that was playing in my mind.
21:34
Constantly.
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And so, I mean, there's some…
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like I said, therapy did help for a while, and
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then I just started, you know.
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Doing my own research, searching and reading and watching a lot
21:48
of great, like, teachers and stuff online, and…
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Just, like, piecemealing.
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a healing modality for myself, like… And,
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mostly, you know, I think it was the… just the
22:04
shifting of perspective that helped the most.
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Because when I… once I… you know, and it was always… even, like,
22:11
when I first left, I didn't… we didn't really speak about anything
22:15
besides, like, the essentials for, like, a year.
22:19
And then… after I'd felt like I kind of got my bearings in.
22:24
you know, I talked to him, and then I told him, like, my goal here is
22:28
to be on good terms with you, on… be friendly, like, have everything,
22:32
you know, like, that's what I truly want, and, you know, I know I need
22:36
to do some healing, and he needed to do some healing.
22:40
And, you know… So…
22:44
that was the goal I had in my mind. It was never to hurt anybody,
22:48
or, you know, I had already been hurt, no one else needed to feel
22:52
like I did, no one else needed to hurt.
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So… I just started shifting and changing, and like, yeah, I
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mean, I don't… I can't pinpoint a certain…
23:02
person that helped me the most, because I just took
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I mean, I was just, like, a…
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learning sponge. Anything, anything that resonated, I just
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deep dive into, and just… I'm just, like, really…
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want to, you know, I had such a strong desire to
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just make it… make me, you know…
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be… have that in the past, and… and rearrange how I
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saw it, and move on with my life. So…
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So, yeah, that's… so if you have any questions, I guess, that's
23:36
kind of just the rundown. And so, like I said, now here I am, I'm
23:41
healed, we've got a good relationship, like, I feel… I feel really
23:45
good about where we are, and so…
23:48
you know, I guess, you know, I'm proud of myself,
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and I've… I've raised my… my child to…
23:54
To see these different perspectives as he's growing up,
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and so they'll know… A little… I don't know.
24:04
Tammy: Well, I just want to say, Clair, that I honor and validate you
24:09
for what you went through, and for having the clarity and the
24:13
self-awareness to know that healing is really what the end
24:18
goal was for you and for him.
24:21
I think it's easy for us to, especially…
24:26
Now, when it feels like we as a society are very divided, it's really
24:32
easy to just stay angry about the things that happen to us.
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And… The problem with that is that it keeps us
24:42
in that low vibration, and it's…
24:46
it blocks the healing for us, and it blocks the healing for
24:50
others, and it blocks the connection. And just like you said,
24:55
you have a child with this man, and, you know, how can you
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look at your child and not see him?
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So, I just really want to honor the work that you've done
25:08
for you, and… and the effort, and the outlook
25:13
and the goal that you set for doing that work. I
25:17
think that's really important, and
25:21
I'm very inspired by that, so thank you for that.
25:26
Clair: Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you.
25:28
I guess a couple of things I did want to touch on is Like… after…
25:35
You know, like, talking about it is always a strange
25:39
thing, because when you tell anybody.
25:42
But that's, like, what happened to you. I think
25:45
there's… there's such, like, stigma and stereotypes
25:48
attached, or assumptions of, like…
25:51
you know, oh, well, you must have been, like, a prude or never
25:54
wanted to have sex, so he was forced to do that, you know? And
25:57
maybe in some cases, maybe that's it, but…
26:00
I think, you know, for my case, and probably many others, is, like I
26:04
said, we were stuck in that loop. Like, if we would have taken, like,
26:08
a month off and, like, talked about it and healed, we could have
26:11
started at a different point, but since we never did.
26:15
You know, and that's on both of us for not talking about it.
26:18
Like, there's no blame of, like, who was at fault there. I
26:21
wasn't great at communicating, and we needed to…
26:25
To do that, but, like, because there was such a desire for me to
26:29
have, like, a healthy sex life in my marriage.
26:32
And so, it was sad that, you know, and it still is something that I
26:36
look back and I'm kind of sad on, that all those years…
26:40
Like…
26:42
my sex life was so sad and trauma… traumatizing and not fun and
26:46
connecting like it should have been. So, you know, there's… I'm
26:51
sure there's a million reasons why people do it, you know? Why this
26:56
happens in a marriage. It's gotta be…
27:00
You know, as many reasons as there are people, but,
27:04
it is hard to talk about when people look at
27:06
you, like, I've had people be like.
27:08
Literally say to me, like, you can't… you were
27:11
married, you can't be raped.
27:12
And I'm like, that's, you know, that's the…
27:16
misconception, I guess, but, you know, it's…
27:19
you know, and like Lori said before, it's everything, it
27:23
needs to be consensual. These are our bodies, like, these
27:26
are our bodies that our souls live in.
27:28
know anything, you know? Getting slapped on the butt, that… that's not
27:32
okay if we're not consenting to it, like, being slapped in the face,
27:36
being grabbed in the shoulder, like, these are our… our, like, sacred
27:40
vessels here on Earth, to have anyone
27:43
try to hurt them without, you know, or touch them, or do anything
27:47
to them, without our consent is… is not okay. Like…
27:51
Tammy: Listen, I'm gonna go so far as to say I don't even want anyone
27:54
speaking to me harshly. You don't even have to physically touch me.
27:59
But I don't want your energy. I don't want that energy directed at me,
28:04
and if I haven't consented to that, it's not welcome.
28:08
And, I agree. I'm gonna be the first one to say that I have never
28:14
considered myself sexually prudish at all. I've probably swung a
28:20
little further the opposite direction.
28:24
But I have experiences in college where I didn't
28:31
consent, and and… At some point.
28:36
You just get tired… for me, I'm only speaking for me
28:41
when I say this. At some point, I just got tired of
28:46
fighting, and I just let it happen.
28:49
just give up and let it happen, and I suspect that that is not so far
28:56
off the mark of where you were too, and you can only…
29:02
Say no so many times.
29:06
Before, like you said, you just accept it as, this is the way
29:12
it is, and this is what's supposed to happen, and your body
29:17
always, always stores the trauma of that.
29:21
Your body always stores the no in every time
29:25
that your no gets conflicted.
29:30
Clair: Yeah, and sometimes, like.
29:33
sometimes I didn't feel safe to even say no. I didn't want the anger,
29:37
I didn't want… and so I… but my body was saying no in so many ways,
29:41
like, literally trying to turn, trying to get away, like…
29:44
And so I teach my, my kid, like.
29:48
words are not the only way that, you know, people speak. Listen to
29:51
people's body language. I show them that with our cats. I'm like,
29:55
look at the cat's body language. Do you think they want you to be
29:58
doing that? Like, because they can't speak.
30:01
So, Jen.
30:02
Tammy: Absolutely. Absolutely, and that is not even…
30:06
that is not limited to sex.
30:09
Clair: Yeah, no.
30:10
Tammy: I've had experiences with men in my life, and with women as well,
30:16
where I didn't, you know, I just… I don't need to say the words,
30:24
And I also knew that The conflict was going to cost
30:28
more than the acquiescence of whatever.
30:32
Clair: removes.
30:32
Tammy: happening. And it doesn't have anything to do with sex. Sometimes
30:37
it can just be a confrontation, or a conversation, or a direction
30:42
in which you are being asked to go with another human being, you
30:47
know? It doesn't have to be about
30:50
sex, and… and there have been many times when I have…
30:57
not honored myself because I didn't want the conflict.
31:04
Clair: Yeah, no, I hear that.
31:06
Like, the concept of stealing a kiss, right?
31:09
Like, I think about this a lot, like.
31:12
is it cute? Is it romantic? Or, like, people who have stolen kisses
31:16
from me, I get upset. I'm like, I didn't, like, I wasn't wanting
31:20
that, I wasn't giving you any signs for that, and now you've just,
31:24
like, taken something from me that, you know, like, it's not, it's
31:28
not cute, it's not okay.
31:30
Lori: Well, it's more than just taking something. I mean, that person is
31:34
coming into your energetic space, and they're putting an imprint
31:39
into your energy field. It's more than just a stolen kiss, and it's
31:43
things that we have not been taught.
31:46
I mean, sex is sacred energy exchange, is what it stands for.
31:54
And throughout all of our upbringing, our parents,
31:58
everyone, you mentioned programming, Clair, that
32:02
I mean, everything is so over-sexualized and
32:06
overstimulated, it keeps people into that, you know,
32:12
That primal need of reproduction and control and
32:16
all of the things, instead of…
32:19
Allowing all of us to understand what a beautiful exchange it can be
32:25
of energies, because it should be a consensual exchange between, you
32:32
know, individuals who happily want to engage in that.
32:37
Because we don't see it, but on an energetic layer…
32:42
level, I mean, we are exchanging energy. So…
32:47
do I consciously want to take on this other person's energy?
32:50
I mean, had I known that about some of my partners, I don't
32:54
know that I would have even said yes.
32:56
Clair: Right.
32:58
Lori: I understood that, you know, I'm not… not only am I picking up a
33:02
piece of them, but people they have been with.
33:06
And what was in their energy field?
33:10
And I'm going, I don't know that I would have even
33:13
consented to that. So, it's such…
33:16
It's such a big thing.
33:20
In society, for all of us.
33:23
And the way… I think, you know, probably the Indigenous people who
33:27
don't have the same programming, they probably see it in a very
33:32
different way than how it's been taught to us.
33:35
Plus, you know, people don't know how to release their emotions
33:40
or express what they're feeling, and so they end up in this
33:45
primal control state of frustration for many.
33:48
For many of the men, and they don't know how to get out of
33:52
that. So, I mean, there's so many layers to this.
33:56
Clair: There is.
33:57
Tammy: And underneath, it still feels like a craving for connection. You
34:03
know, a man wants to connect with a woman, a woman wants to
34:08
connect with a man, and we just get so confused about how to
34:13
actually do it. How to ask for it, how to…
34:16
Be present in it, how to initiate it, how to end it.
34:23
Just all of the pieces that go with it are really a… a
34:29
request, a begging for connection.
34:33
And we just don't have it right. We just don't…
34:37
we haven't figured out to honor
34:40
The sacred in each other.
34:46
Clair: Yeah.
34:47
Yeah, and you bring up… And you got the…
34:49
Lori: internet now to where, you know, pornography's
34:53
so readily available. I mean.
34:55
what some of the various sites are free. Nothing's free,
35:00
everything's an energetic exchange. So, for people who were going
35:05
out and, you know, watching these images, these…
35:09
what have you, I mean, that frequency bandwidth is being fed.
35:13
And I'm even gonna go so far, Tammy, as to say, okay, someone
35:17
goes and looks at a video, and it's, you know, just one man,
35:21
one woman together, what have you.
35:24
well, was it consensual? Did they both, you know, are they their
35:28
consenting adults? Is there… you know, what's underneath that?
35:32
And so, somebody's viewing that, that's an energetic exchange.
35:38
The person's watching them, so whatever's energy is in that.
35:42
is attaching themselves to that person. And then, it's
35:45
all those dopamine hits, you know, the feel-good hits
35:49
that the body will give off.
35:51
And it just starts a really tough cycle for people to break
35:56
out of that, because it can be an addiction.
35:59
Tammy: Oh, absolutely.
36:01
Lori: not only is it an addiction, but it takes more and more for some
36:05
people to hit those dopamine highs. They may need to have, you know,
36:09
watch something that has multiple people in it.
36:13
Different types of sexual encounters. Younger people.
36:18
They may not even realize they're looking at
36:21
something that's underage.
36:22
Something that is non-consensual.
36:28
I mean, something that's brutal.
36:31
It's just… and it feeds that frequency, and I'm gonna
36:35
say it even feeds the frequency of the child sex
36:38
trafficking that's out there now.
36:40
We may think, oh, we're not feeding any of that, we're not the
36:44
perpetrators, we're not the ones gathering the children, we're not
36:47
the ones that are participating in the events. But if we're looking
36:51
at it, if we're feeding it in some manner.
36:54
We're feeding them atrocity. We are.
36:57
And so…
36:57
Tammy: I'm gonna take it a step further, too, and
37:01
say that not only are we
37:03
feeding it by that. We are feeding it by not having these
37:07
conversations with our daughters. We are feeding it by not
37:11
having these conversations with our sons.
37:14
We are feeding it by just thinking they're gonna figure it out,
37:19
nothing's gonna happen to them, we don't need to talk about… we
37:24
don't like to talk about sex, that's so uncomfortable. But the
37:29
thing is, sex is just the act.
37:32
The craving is the connection, and until we teach our children
37:36
how to connect to each other as human beings.
37:40
As spiritual beings, we're never gonna get the sex part right.
37:48
Clair: Isn't it interesting how,
37:52
Like you said, no one wants to talk about sex, it's
37:55
uncomfortable to talk about it, but…
37:57
sex is literally everywhere. You can't turn on the radio without
38:01
hearing sex. Like, people aren't uncomfortable about talking
38:04
about sex. They're talk… they're uncomfortable talking about,
38:07
like, the, you know, proper ways to go about it, but, like,
38:10
literally, sex is everywhere. It's being talked about in the
38:13
halls of schools, it's just…
38:15
Tammy: statement.
38:15
Clair: but it's… it's being demeaned a lot. It gets talked in a derogatory
38:19
way instead of, like, a beautiful, connecting way. And I think
38:23
that's the shift that needs to happen, is to…
38:26
See a different, like, sex is great, and…
38:30
you know, shine a better light instead of just, like, it's
38:33
a thing that you are owed, or you are… or you're, you know,
38:37
like, oh, he bought me dinner, I've got to give him sex
38:40
now, like, you know, like…
38:41
Tammy: But that it's just a rite of passage, and you
38:43
get to figure it out on your own.
38:45
Clair: Yeah.
38:46
Tammy: Like, that just is mind-boggling to me. And
38:50
honestly, until we moved abroad,
38:53
I never really… like you said, that's what we grew up with.
38:58
It's… why would it seem abnormal? I mean, that's…
39:01
The way our parents did it, it's the way our parents taught us. I'll
39:06
never forget my mother. The sex talk with me when I was a child from
39:10
my mother was that it's when a man messes with you.
39:16
Clair: That was a sex…
39:17
Tammy: That was the sex talk!
39:19
I'm like, I don't, what does that actually mean, right?
39:26
Clair: So many interpretations.
39:28
Tammy: We get here, and… it's just not…
39:32
Like, we have a nude beach near our house, and we
39:37
see families out there together.
39:40
And it's just not a… you know, women on our beach here, on a
39:46
regular beach, can go topless, and men don't walk by an ogle
39:52
because her boobs are out, you know? It's just… it's not an
39:57
event. It's not an occurrence.
40:00
And… That is so foreign to what we are taught.
40:05
In… in the U.S, I believe. There's no repression or
40:10
oppression around sex. Now, it's not perfect here, don't
40:16
get me wrong, you know, women are still
40:20
considered subservient to men, and I believe that's
40:25
a worldwide thing, but… there's no…
40:30
You know, it's not taboo here.
40:33
Which doesn't automatic… automatically make it interesting.
40:37
to children, or mysterious to children. It's just, this is a female
40:42
body, this is a male body, and that's it. That's just it.
40:51
Clair: Yeah.
40:52
I… something kind of popped up for me that I…
40:57
think is a good message to get out is just with, like,
41:00
dating apps. Like, you know, there's a lot of pressure,
41:04
you go out with a guy, and he buys you
41:07
something, a drink, a food, something, you know? And
41:09
then there's this pressure on women to be like, well, I
41:12
have to give them something back.
41:15
But, you know, like, if you look at it in, like,
41:19
kind of a crude manner, that's…
41:22
So you go out, he buys you a $13 drink, and you have to give,
41:26
you know, do something sexually. So that, if you're looking at
41:29
prostitution, that's pretty cheap. That's a… that's a cheap
41:33
end, right? Even a $100 dinner.
41:35
And you have to sleep with someone because they bought you a
41:38
$100 dinner and you feel bad. Still, if you're working the
41:41
streets, that's the cheaper end. Like, you're prostituting
41:44
yourself out, but it's on an app, so it's…
41:46
it seems like that's okay, because that's how it is, but it's,
41:49
you know, men would be forking out a lot more money if they were
41:53
actually getting girls off the streets and having to pay for the
41:56
services that they think buying a dinner for them is. So I
41:59
think, you know, if you start looking at it that way, it kind of
42:03
is like, oh, yeah.
42:04
Like, I, you know, you gave me $50 in food, like, you
42:08
gotta… like, that's… that's nothing, like…
42:11
I don't know, like, have more value.
42:13
Tammy: about my kid, who is 26 and female, and, she… this was a few years
42:19
ago, but she said, Mama, when a guy asks you out, are you supposed to
42:26
pay for dinner? Are you supposed to pay for your own?
42:31
And I said, well, you know, what do you think about that?
42:35
And she said, well, I don't think I want to pay for my own
42:39
dinner. I mean, I'm perfectly capable of taking myself out
42:43
to eat, and I enjoy my own company.
42:45
You know, if somebody asks me out, I think they should pay for it.
42:49
For… for my company, during dinner.
42:53
And I was like, well, that sounds fair to me!
42:56
So, go for it, and that's… that's sort of the way that she
42:59
thinks, too. She's just… and it's not about sex. She doesn't
43:03
feel pressured for sex, it's just a…
43:06
That's great! If you want to ask me out, if we're gonna go
43:09
out as friends, I'm happy to pay for my share. I'm happy
43:13
to pay for you if you need me to.
43:15
But if you're asking me out on a date, I'm
43:18
gonna expect you to pay for me.
43:22
And, when I was dating, I was…
43:31
this has been well over 10 years ago, because I've
43:35
been married for 10 years now, 9 years.
43:39
But I was dating women.
43:43
And went on a date with a woman, and had a nice time. It was
43:48
a really, you know, it was just a nice date. It was just a
43:53
nice date. And at the end of the date,
43:57
She walked me to my car, and the whole stealing a kiss thing
44:01
came in. Like, she leaned in and kissed me.
44:04
And I've pulled back, and later…
44:09
She said, you know, I'm sorry if that offended you.
44:13
And, you know, my first response, because this is how we're
44:16
programmed, is to say, oh, it's alright, there's nothing wrong,
44:19
and I didn't. I said, you know, I was offended.
44:22
Because I didn't give you permission to kiss me, and I didn't
44:27
ask you to kiss me. And while I can appreciate the initiative
44:32
that you took, it wasn't welcome.
44:35
So, you know, you may want to keep that in mind. Next time
44:40
you go out on a date with someone, just ask.
44:44
Clair: Yeah, or yeah, make sure you're getting clear green light signs, like,
44:48
you know, I think when someone wants to be kissed, there's clear
44:52
signs. It's not arms folded, standing back, trying to lean away,
44:56
that's not a time to try to attack someone, but…
44:59
Tammy: Or just ask, you know? We get to use our words.
45:03
Clair: We get to, yeah.
45:07
Lori: Yeah, and I'm gonna say sometimes our, our words,
45:12
Might betray us, depending on what kind of mental state we're
45:16
in, what kind of, substances we have in our body.
45:20
Clair: True.
45:21
Tammy: That's a good point.
45:23
Lori: It's never okay if someone is impaired.
45:26
And if someone is taken advantage of, ever.
45:30
True. I found myself in a situation where that almost happened
45:34
with me, and I luckily had a couple friends show up.
45:38
Because I was not in a state where I could have responded at all.
45:43
Tammy: Yeah.
45:44
Well, and Clair was right, too, in the way that she's teaching
45:49
her son with the cats. You do get to listen to more than just
45:53
words, because I'm gonna tell you from personal experience as a
45:58
woman in the professional world.
46:00
There have been many times when I have felt pressured.
46:06
To do something that even a boss may be asking me to do that
46:11
has nothing to do with sex, not sexual at all. But there,
46:15
when someone is in a level of power.
46:19
that is greater than the level that you are at, there
46:24
is an unspoken pressure to acquiesce.
46:28
For your own safety, whether that's to keep your job, to get
46:33
a promotion, to… Be considered professional.
46:38
Because I think all of us as women have
46:41
been in situations where we've
46:45
Done things that we did not want to do.
46:50
That our whole intuition and gut instinct were telling
46:54
us was wrong for us. And we've done it because there
46:58
was a threat of losing something.
47:02
Lori: And you're in survival mode in that.
47:04
Tammy: I'm late.
47:04
Lori: And so, you're… you feel you don't have another… another choice.
47:09
When in fact, we do have other choices.
47:13
It may not be easy to see in the moment.
47:17
But yeah.
47:19
Clair: I think, that's a huge… Topic to acknowledge, also, is
47:26
when you're in survival mode, you know? Like,
47:29
there were things that I did.
47:31
because I was in survival mode, like, my whole life, just
47:35
because that's what I knew to do. And so, you can look back at
47:38
it and, you know, be like, well, that was your fault, because
47:42
you didn't do this, or that was your fault. And I was like, I… I
47:46
wasn't really connected to my mind. I was solely trying to,
47:49
like, get through the day.
47:51
without being hurt, you know? Like…
47:53
Tammy: Right.
47:54
Clair: And your mind is different. Like, I don't know if people who haven't
47:59
experienced being in prolonged survival mode don't realize
48:04
How your brain is different, how things aren't clear, how you're just…
48:09
you're willing to do things you normally would not, just because you
48:13
want the situation to be over, or, you know…
48:16
So, I think…
48:17
Tammy: So that you don't want to be outcast.
48:20
You don't want to be separated from the group, or from
48:24
society, or from the family, or whatever it is.
48:31
Clair: Yeah.
48:33
Lori: I mean, that brings up that group of, what was it, 57, wherever it
48:38
was, the people all on the text messages or messaging board. And, you
48:42
know, nobody stepping up and saying that this is wrong.
48:47
stepping up and stepping in, because you know there were people in
48:51
there feeling that in their bodies, and they were getting the
48:55
messages, this is wrong, but yet they're not stepping up. That's
48:59
called willful blindness. I mean, and you're not excluded from
49:03
that. You're just as responsible.
49:05
For not speaking up.
49:07
But that…
49:08
Tammy: That is another, from a victim standpoint, that is another
49:12
case of not wanting to be outcast from the group.
49:16
Lori: That is true, absolutely.
49:17
Tammy: Always. It's both sides.
49:21
Lori: Yeah. Yeah.
49:23
And it's just like, I'm ready for us to get to the point
49:27
where we all can just speak out and take care of each
49:30
other. If we see something wrong.
49:33
Tammy: Let's so good.
49:33
Lori: and say something. And yes, there may be something
49:36
that's happening around us. That's not for us. You'll
49:40
feel that, but if somebody is being…
49:42
Attacked, injured, hurt, you know, if there's something we can do to
49:46
help, let's… if it's nothing else but just yelling and bringing
49:50
awareness and attention that something is happening.
49:53
Let's stop.
49:54
Clair: Yeah.
49:54
Lori: of each other!
49:57
I mean, like Tammy's mentioned before, we're all wounded souls walking
50:02
around this planet, and we're all here doing our best to make our way
50:08
through and find our way back home after this place.
50:12
The least we can do is love each other, and be here for each
50:16
other, and hold space for each other, like, clear, that's what
50:20
we're doing with the three of us today, holding space together,
50:24
and allowing your very vulnerable story to be shared, letting
50:28
other people know you're not alone.
50:31
you know, ask for help. There's people out there, and it's amazing
50:35
to me what I've seen when people actually speak out, just into the
50:39
universe, and they're ready for the help.
50:42
Speak it out, and this universe will move. People will come into
50:46
your life, people will show up that can help you.
50:49
like Clair mentioned, different modalities, different things
50:53
that resonated with her during her healing journey after this,
50:56
and I know you're still healing, we all are.
50:59
But…
51:00
you know, you take what resonates. You put yourself there, and you're
51:04
like, oh my goodness, this is speaking to me. And then at some point,
51:08
you may have what you need there, and another teacher or more
51:11
information will show up when you're ready.
51:14
Tammy: Yeah.
51:14
Clair: It truly does work like that, like, you just…
51:18
you're not ready for the final, like, if, you know, like, you had to
51:21
take the little steps, and they're… they can be frustrating, and it
51:25
can seem like it's taking forever, and you have to, you know, learn
51:29
all these little lessons along the way, like…
51:31
patience, and self-love, and all of the… you know, these are
51:35
all, like, little subtopics of… of the big healing, but
51:39
without them, you're… you're not… you don't have the weight
51:43
when you're done. Like, you're just…
51:46
You have to go through all of that tedious little steps by steps.
51:51
And, you know, the more… the more…
51:56
Well, I lost that thought, but… yeah.
51:59
It's just, you know, I think it's so important, like you said,
52:02
people on that call, I don't know what you're talking about,
52:05
because I don't really watch the news, but…
52:07
we're filling in their body, and I think that's
52:10
something, you know, I know I teach my child, and…
52:13
is to really feel in your body. If… does that feel good in your
52:17
body, or does it feel like it might feel good socially.
52:20
It might feel good, like, your friends are gonna think you're
52:24
cool, but does it feel good in your body? And to, like, really
52:28
follow that instead of fitting in, and, you know, like, it is
52:32
hard, because no one wants to be ostracized. We are, like, a
52:35
community species.
52:37
So to be the one that's like, hey guys.
52:40
let's not do that, you know, that's… that's gonna ostracize you.
52:44
They're gonna turn on you, and now you're the point of focus of
52:47
people, you know, and that's a terrifying thing at any age, but
52:51
especially when you're younger and just learning social skills.
52:55
It's, you know, you don't want to be the…
52:57
pariah of any situation, and so you just keep your mouth shut, or…
53:02
you know, I was teaching him the other day, like, if
53:05
something happened, if all his friends were, like.
53:08
Picking on someone, you know, like…
53:10
what to do in that situation, and not necessarily, like, you don't
53:14
need to, like, have a lecture and be like, guys, you shouldn't do
53:17
that, you know, just be like, hey, let's move on, you know? Like,
53:20
let's… distraction, just kind of move them away from it, you know?
53:23
You don't have to… you don't have to teach them a lesson if that's
53:26
uncomfortable, just, like, suggest a different activity, you know, like…
53:30
Because kids have these tools in their toolbox.
53:34
to know, because these situations come up, you know, and it's
53:37
awkward, and you feel that heat in your body, like, oh, I need to do
53:41
something, and, you know, to be able to execute that, and just, you
53:44
know, who knows? There's probably other people in that group that are
53:48
feeling the same, and if you do it.
53:50
I think it's gonna be easier and easier for more and more people to
53:54
stand up until we all are in a place of, like, sovereignty.
53:57
that we can stand up for ourselves, even in a group. Like, then, you
54:01
know, that this group mentality doesn't need to be any longer. It
54:05
can be, like, we're all individuals gathered together, and, you
54:08
know, just because this guy said something doesn't mean that that's
54:12
what I believe, or, you know…
54:14
Like…
54:15
Tammy: Right. And, you know, we talk about the cost for doing things, and in
54:20
a situation like this, one of the first things I think of is
54:24
accountability. We all are big to say, we need to hold somebody
54:29
accountable, they need to be held accountable.
54:32
And yes, they do. However, there's another cost that comes
54:37
with staying silent. There's another cost with going against
54:43
what your body is telling you is clearly the right path for
54:48
you. The cost is that disconnection.
54:52
This sacred connection that we are craving with each other,
54:57
men, women, whatever, this connection that we're craving is
55:03
something we get further and further away from every time we
55:08
dishonor our own knowing.
55:13
Clair: Yeah.
55:22
Lori: Well, I just love how there are so many, and so many people are waking
55:28
up to a lot of this, Tammy and Clair, as far as, you know…
55:32
We've been so made to be distracted and disconnected
55:38
And of course, you know, you'll hear me say also put in a
55:41
state of being overweight and living in fear, and remaining
55:45
ill because of the things that we take in our bodies. So
55:49
we've got all kinds of things that…
55:51
are influencing us.
55:54
And… I mean, for me, the biggest thing that helped me
56:00
along my path was turning off the TV.
56:07
I mean, you think… you don't even realize it. There was… my
56:10
husband had it on one day, and I don't know, it was on some sports
56:14
thing, and some comment was… or no, it was just a movie. And he's
56:17
like, oh, I'm not even watching it, but the person made the
56:21
comment in the movie, and I'm not gonna say this verbatim, right,
56:24
because that's, you know…
56:26
I don't have it in front of me, but it was basically something
56:30
to the effect of, I don't have any self- confidence or self-love
56:34
or self-worth, something to that effect.
56:37
And he's like, well, I'm not saying that, and I went.
56:41
No, no, no, it's on closed captioning, it was just written out on the
56:45
screen. I happened to turn around and see it up there, so I took that
56:49
in. And my subconscious doesn't know the difference that somebody else
56:53
is saying that versus what I just read.
56:56
So I just told my subconscious that.
57:01
Tammy: Yep.
57:02
Lori: All the sexual things that are in everything are subconscious.
57:06
Clair: consciousness.
57:07
Lori: It's taking all of that programming in.
57:10
all of it, from when we're kids. I mean, it's like in the
57:13
Disney movies and stuff, too. I've seen all kinds of subliminal
57:17
stuff that's showing up in Disney movies.
57:20
You know, the word sex up in clouts.
57:23
That's a subliminal message. Why does the word sex and clouds in
57:27
a Disney movie, what purpose is that other than.
57:31
Clair: We're.
57:31
Lori: our children.
57:33
I'm just gonna say what it is.
57:36
We do not consent to any of that.
57:41
Tammy: We do not consider…
57:42
Lori: it. I'm over it. And so.
57:44
It's just, it's been embedded in so many things, and our
57:49
programming becomes our operating system, and until we turn it
57:54
off and change how we are programming ourselves.
57:58
I mean, we have to take ownership of
58:00
ourselves, each and every one of us.
58:03
And that's the best way we can show up in this world.
58:07
And for the people who are the perpetrators, the ones who are,
58:11
you know, doing the things, there's something underneath there
58:15
for them, too. There's… there are wounds, there… there is
58:18
possibly past life trauma, there's contracts, there's all kinds
58:22
of things that may be coming in.
58:25
But we still get to make a choice.
58:28
We still get to choose, all of us.
58:32
And I do say, if you find yourself in a situation that's
58:35
uncomfortable and it's not healthy for you, ask for help.
58:39
Find a way. Ask God, ask your guardian angel, your
58:44
spirit guides, just ask the universe.
58:48
And then be willing To accept the help when it shows up.
58:53
Because it will.
58:55
It will show up. Tammy, what else do you have?
59:00
Tammy: I think that we are reaching the end of our meeting today, so, Clair,
59:05
is there any last word… are there any last words that you would like
59:10
to share with us before we end our session today?
59:14
Clair: I think…
59:15
We didn't really touch on, kind of, the men's
59:19
side of how they can, you know, how…
59:22
I kind of mentioned it, like, in my situation, how it was kind of…
59:27
it just became a loop and a pattern, and so… but also to have a
59:31
loop and a pattern from a male perspective.
59:34
like that, it can be frustrating, you know? Men are more sexual than
59:39
women a lot of times. They need it physically more. And so, I am, you
59:44
know, in my healing, I have been able to put myself in
59:48
his perspective, and see how frustrating that must have been, and
59:52
how, you know, he didn't really know what to do either. We were kind
59:55
of locked in this situation. So, I just, you know, I don't want to… I
59:59
don't want it to end with any kind of…
1:00:01
energy of blame, or… or hate, or… or any of that.
1:00:05
Like, you know, like, we… we're both…
1:00:10
In a state where that's what was happening, and…
1:00:13
Also, I just… one last thing about healing, like, when that stuff is
1:00:17
happening to you, you do learn to disassociate, like, you learn really
1:00:21
well to dissociate, and so a part of the healing
1:00:24
Was to return to my body.
1:00:28
Which is a strange thing to do, like, a lot of the way that happened
1:00:33
is I would have injuries, because when you have an injury, you're
1:00:37
very much in your body, you feel that pain.
1:00:40
And so, it's a way to look at a lot of the injuries I've had
1:00:44
in gratitude, of like, you know, I've had, like, I've had a
1:00:48
sore foot, and every step you have to think about, every move
1:00:52
you make, and I'm, like, I've…
1:00:54
I've been brought so much into my body, and so I'm
1:00:57
grateful for that experience, too.
1:00:59
You know, that's further healing to… to be in there, so…
1:01:03
Tammy: Right, right. That's a very good point, Clair, and I want to
1:01:11
expand on that as well. For me, I feel like…
1:01:16
Addressing the situation for both men and women around
1:01:21
really listening to what your body is telling you, listening
1:01:26
to what your intuition is telling you.
1:01:29
And understanding that there is a cost when you make a
1:01:34
conscious choice for not listening to that.
1:01:38
And… To… to use your situation as an example.
1:01:45
you could hear your body, but you had no way to help him
1:01:50
hear your body. And he could hear his body.
1:01:55
But he had no way to help you. So, it's… it still comes
1:02:00
back down in my mind, which is very simplified, to that
1:02:05
sacred craving for connection.
1:02:09
And…
1:02:10
We… we have to figure it out, whether that's through higher
1:02:15
consciousness, whether it's through language, whether it's through,
1:02:21
just caring enough to hear what each other are
1:02:27
saying. We get to… figure out…
1:02:31
How to hear each other.
1:02:38
Yeah, so I… I don't want to end this either on a
1:02:44
note of, blaming or accusing or,
1:02:49
I don't want to… Bastardize men. That is
1:02:56
not the goal here. All of us
1:03:00
need the healing. For women to heal will require men to heal, and
1:03:05
we get to figure out how to do that together, and I think it's
1:03:10
extremely important that we do that together.
1:03:15
Clair: And that there have been men on the other side of this. Like, men
1:03:19
have had… been the… the receivers of rape and sexual abuse as
1:03:23
well, like, so, it's not just a man-woman thing, it's just the
1:03:27
perpetrator, and women have been the abusers, like, you know,
1:03:31
like, it's just perpetrator and…
1:03:34
And victim, like… that… that dynamic needs to
1:03:38
change. It's… it's not sex… Specific.
1:03:42
Tammy: It's not gender-related, honestly.
1:03:45
Yeah, that's why I mentioned. Okay. Well, and
1:03:48
I guess if you think about it,
1:03:51
maybe, in many cases, it is gender- related, just simply for the
1:03:57
physical fact that men are stronger than women, and can overpower
1:04:02
them in most cases. Women are much more emotionally
1:04:07
adept than men, and can use that as a power to
1:04:12
emasculate and ambassadize men. So it ends up being a
1:04:17
really, a vicious cycle, I think.
1:04:20
Clair: Yeah.
1:04:21
Tammy: And we all get to acknowledge that. We get to acknowledge our
1:04:25
part in that, and where we are unwilling to…
1:04:29
Listen to our own selves, and where we are unwilling to make
1:04:35
a choice about just doing the right thing.
1:04:38
As it relates to us.
1:04:43
So, Clair, I want to thank you again for joining us. This has been
1:04:47
an amazing session, and I'm so grateful for it. Lori, as always, I
1:04:51
love you so much, and I'm so grateful for you.
1:04:54
For our viewers, thank you for sticking with us through a
1:04:58
very important and sensitive topic, and we look forward to
1:05:03
seeing you here again next week with us.
1:05:07
Clair: Thank you. Thank you for having me.
1:05:10
Lori: Thank you.