Latest / Legally Brunette / Killer Thriller Docu: A missing teen, 30 years without answers, and the suspect who could soon walk free

Transcript

Killer Thriller Docu: A missing teen, 30 years without answers, and the suspect who could soon walk free · Legally Brunette

• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Hi, you guys.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to Killer Thriller Docu Edition. So Robin Murphy
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: was just 17 when she disappeared in 1995. Police initially
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: believed she may have run away, but as the search continued,
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: disturbing clues emerged, including a connection to Howard John Gombert Jr.,
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: who was a convicted violent offender who was never charged
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: in Robin's disappearance. So now, 30 years later, investigative journalist
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Paul Solitaroff is revisiting the case in The Devil's Quarry 2,
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: digging into the original investigation, the people he's uncovered, and
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: what investigators might have missed, and whether we are any
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: closer to finding out what happened to Robin Murphy.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Hello. Hello. How are you, Paul?
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: Jennifer, how are you?
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us.
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: I'm delighted to be here.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: We are delighted to have you.
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: I'm delighted, at least for the hour we're on. not
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: to be writing or reporting about a pedophile.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: I don't blame you.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: And honestly, I was going to ask you, I wasn't
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: going to start out with this question, but in what
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: you do, do you ever get, and I've asked a
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: lot of my guests this because we do true crime here,
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: but do you ever get nervous? I mean, just reading
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: about some of these just atrocious, disgusting, awful, horrible people,
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: And then talking to people that actually have been interviewing
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: everyone around them. First of all, I should tell our guests,
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: they may already know this, but we are talking about
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: a fellow, well, an investigative journalist, a very famous, important one,
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: but also a podcaster. So guys, we're talking, by the way,
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: about podcasts. That's what the Devil's Quarry is. And by
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: the way, also, your voice is very mesmerizing, my friend.
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Do you hear that a lot?
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: Yes. I mostly hear that I've got a great face
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: for radio. But yes, occasionally someone will throw me a
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: breadcrumb about my voice. So let me answer the question
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: you put, which is, do sociopaths like Gombert scare me?
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: The answer is no. So I've spent my entire life
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: in the gym. I'm a lot scarier. in a dark alley. Really?
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: Well, listen, I don't, I, this guy freaks me out.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: I think in part, it amazes me how he had
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: vetted the law for so long and was walking the
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: streets and just how repulsive he actually was. And I'm
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: just talking about, you know, his behaviors.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Yes. The murders. Yes. But also just, I don't, and
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you questions about it.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: I don't understand how this guy was such a raging
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: pedophile and never got caught for that, but I'm way, okay,
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: let's go. I'm getting way ahead of myself with you,
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: my friend. First, I want to know, tell me how
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: Robin Murphy's case first came onto your radar and why,
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: how did you realize there was still a story to
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: tell 30 years later?
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: Oh my God. Well, first of all, so I've spent
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: the better part of 38 years getting the wrong information
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: convicted out of prison, right? I know.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: I read that about you.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: Amazing. I've walked innocent men off death row. I've walked
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: them out of LWOP, life without parole.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Is that really your passion first? Or is it right?
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, all of this.
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. I am a justice avenger. Some journalists are
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: interested in the exoneration stuff. That's half the job. For me,
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: the full job is extricating the wrongly convicted from prison
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: and replacing them in those cells with the crooked cops,
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: the corrupt prosecutors, the in-the-bag judges who all played some
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: knowing part in these wrongful convictions, typically of young black
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: men from, say, West Philly or South L.A. or Southside Chicago.
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: So I've done deep, deep investigative dives into some of
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: the most troubled and troublesome police departments in America. Why
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: this story? After three decades of investigating crooked cops, gang
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: cops in LA, crooked homicide cops in Chicago, crooked elite
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: field narcotics cops in West Philly, there was one itch
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: I had to scratch yet. And that was if it's
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: this bad in big city, uh, police departments. So I
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: often worked hand in glove with the mothership, the innocence
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: project office, the one that started the entire innocence movement, the, uh,
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: the guys, Peter Neufeld, Barry Scheck, Nina Morrison, who not
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: only spearheaded this notion of provable forensic innocence, but have now,
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: I don't know what the latest count is, we're up
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: in the vicinity of 400 people that they have exonerated
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: by use of DNA, by use of of essentially debunking
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: all the junk science that crooked cops, corrupt prosecutors have
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: used in the past. Dental bite analysis, garbage. Really? Absolute garbage.
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: Junk science of a class with polygraphs, photo arrays, photo
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: array lineups in which cops constantly manipulate photographs to lead
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: supposed eyewitnesses to the one picture that they're trying to
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: build the narrative around, the guy that they're framing. So I,
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: over the years, have become good friends and confidants with
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: the the top of the ladder at Innocence Project. And
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: I've been asking them for years, I really want to
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: go investigate small town policing. Please tell me you've got
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: a case. And I'll go anywhere. I don't care. And
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: I'll embed there. They said, Paul, you don't have to
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: buy a plane ticket. Just drive 50 miles north of
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: the Bronx to Putnam County, New York. A community of
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: white flight, blue collar families, formerly of the Bronx, of
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: the outer boroughs like Queens, who when urban renewal was
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: heavily funded by the federal government, suddenly all of these
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: towers went up in the Bronx, in Queens, in Brooklyn,
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: all of those Italian, Irish, Polish, families, cops, firemen, con
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: ed workers, sanitation guys, they all got the hell out
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: of Dodge. Where'd they go? Some of them went to
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: less expensive communities in Westchester, but a bunch of them
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: went to Putnam County, which was barely populated. It was
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: essentially a seasonal county with some bungalows. on these man-made lakes.
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: So Putnam County, for those of you who don't live
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: in the tri-state area, has been designated New York City's watershed.
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: And big chunks of the Hudson River have been diverted
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: to create reservoirs for New York City drinking and tap water.
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: Long story short, these communities that were only during the
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: summer in the 70s, 80s, and 90s suddenly grew from
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: a couple of thousand year-round residents to 35,000 like Carmel,
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: New York, the setting for the Devil's Quarry. So you've got,
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: in bright blue New York State, you've got this carve-out,
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: this blood-red carve-out of New York City cops, sanitation, blah, blah, blah. Well,
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: in 1994, a beautiful young girl who is deeply unhappy
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: at home, who feels neglected, abused, et cetera, and who
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: is taken to wandering the streets of this rural town, Carmel,
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: which barely has a downtown, at all hours of the
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: day or night, disappears on the afternoon of October 3rd, 1994.
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: It's never seen again in town limits. Cops, the crooked
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: cops at the Putnam Sheriff's Office, and typically you don't
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: get guests on here, leading with crooked cops.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: No, we don't.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: But we definitely have had guests that were, that worked
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: with the Innocence Project and their, whose message has been
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: similar and wrongly convicted, uh, you know, prisoners, that has
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: been their passion. So it's some of my favorite because
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: the fact that you actually give a shit enough to
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: say to the Innocence Project, send me to a small town.
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: Like Putnam, where clearly, clearly something happened here. And so
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: please go on.
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: So why do I use the word crooked? Because it's
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: been adjudicated. because we have all of this forensic evidence
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: that the two cops who framed two young boys, Anthony DePippo,
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: 18 when they arrested him, Andy Krivak, 17 when they
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: arrested him, both kids that I call sideways kids, kids
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: with ADHD, kids with low-level drug intakes, mostly weed, occasionally
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: ecstasy and pills. The cops, instead of investigating the disappearance
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: of Joseph Wright in October, November, et cetera, did absolutely
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: nothing on her case.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: Just like with Robin Murphy.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, I couldn't get over when you described her
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: friend actually creating this search group As opposed to the
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: cops finding the real, finding for bad, the first real
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: piece of evidence because the cops weren't doing shit.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: And I just couldn't get over it.
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: Well, wait till you hear season three. So we're now
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: on season two. Season one, for those who are new
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: to the series, focused entirely on the wrongful convictions of
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: Anthony DePippo and Andy Krivak for the murder of Josette Ray,
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: 12-year-old girl. Not only did they not rape and murder Josette,
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: we know who did in any event. Anthony DePippo did
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: the most extraordinary thing I've ever encountered in 30 years.
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: So Anthony could barely read when he went to prison. Again,
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: he had a significant learning disorder. He dropped out of
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: or failed the ninth grade three times. He gets convicted
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: of murdering a girl he met once to offer a
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: cigarette to on the street. He goes to the worst
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: place on earth, what we in New York refer to
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: as up top. When you've committed really heinous crimes, you
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: don't just go to prison. You go to the worst
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: prisons in all of the Northeast. You go to Attica.
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: You go to.
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: Dannemora, you go to Western, you go to Shawangunk. Anthony
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: was at all of those places. So first he taught
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: himself to read in the law library by reading the
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: case law reporter, which is the standard text, which has
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: the summaries and in some cases transcripts. of these legal proceedings,
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: criminal proceedings, murders, serial rapes, et cetera, et cetera. And
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: so he taught himself first to read, then he taught
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: himself to write, and then he taught himself how to
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: investigate his own case. And we're gonna get to Robin
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: in just a second. So the thing about Anthony that's
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: a little different aside from the fact that he turns
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: out to be innately one of the most brilliant legal
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: minds in America.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: And that's not.
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: Me saying it. So America has one lawyer at the very,
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: very top of criminal law. And anyone who's seen the P.
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: Diddy documentary has met Mark Agniflo. Anybody who has watched
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: The Vow about Keith Raniere and that crazy sex cult,
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: Mark represented Diddy, got him off of 36 of 40
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: counts for interstate racketeering, sex trafficking. You got Harvey Weinstein off.
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: I mean, this is a guy who markets himself to
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: those people he says are truly fucked. He got a
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: hold of Anthony's case in 2016, drove up to Putnam
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: County to meet with his client at Putnam County Jailhouse
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: and realized within five minutes that he was sitting there
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: with the second best lawyer in America, even though Anthony,
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: of course, had no memory. And so to get through
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: the post-conviction relief process and get a judge to read
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: your brief that you yourself as a convict have written,
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: the odds are, let's call it one in 100,000, for
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: a judge to then refer your brief to the Court
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: of Appeals where a seven panel, seven justice panel that
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: oversees all convictions in the state of New York agrees
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: not only wrongly convicted, but your lawyer should be disbarred.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: And I cannot believe has not been.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: Has not been disbarred. In fact, Anthony's criminal lawyer, who
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: is himself a criminal, is now a judge in Putnam County.
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: A man who committed the most horrific ethical offense I've
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: ever heard of. He was Anthony DePippo's capital murder lawyer,
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: while he also represented the guy who should have been
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: the prime suspect, the man you've been talking about, Howard
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: John Gover. Right.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: Unreal.
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: Hit that from Anthony, hit it from the judge. It
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: was only when Anthony got a hold of his case
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: file and saw.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: That It was the same lawyer.
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: Leader had represented Gombert in two different rape cases. So
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: in the course of investigating his own conviction, Anthony stumbles
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: across this name in witness statements that had never been
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: raised at his trial by his own shitty lawyer, Robert Leader,
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: the name of Howard Gombert. And Anthony had heard the
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: name before, but he couldn't remember in what connection. And
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: so he hired a private detective to start digging into
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: this man, Howard Gomber. And lo and behold, Gomber turns
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: out to be a one-man sex crime wave in Putnam County.
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: And before Putnam County, New York, 12 miles east in Litchfield, Connecticut,
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: he had raped the when she was 11, 12, 13,
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: another girl. He was convicted in Connecticut of raping a
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: seven-year-old girl. He's now in prison. He's been in prison
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: since 2000, but, and he was sentenced to 30 years,
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: but in Connecticut, 30 years turns out to be more
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: like 24, 25. So he's getting out soon?
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: Is that what you're saying?
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: He's getting out in less than three months. This monster.
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: This is why I came back to do the pod series. So,
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: Robin Murphy. Robin Murphy disappears exactly six months after Joseph
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: Wright does. Again, a small, white-only town where there is
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: no violent crime. Part of the problem, Jennifer, is that
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: these mall cops, these rented cops, who were never trained
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: to be cops... were suddenly tasked with solving not one,
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: but two murders of girls in their town. And because
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: they've never done anything like this, the sheriff's department says, well,
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: fuck it. Let's just hang the murder on two of
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: the kids we hate. And what's the difference? Well, the
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: difference is, had you investigated and caught The actual perp,
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: when Joe's head disappeared, Robin Murphy would be alive. Well,
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: we'd know where she is. Yeah. Robin worked with Gombert's
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: long-suffering baby mama, who we called Anne Marie.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: Okay, so let me just stop you because he was
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: 30 and she was 16.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Is that what I'm remembering?
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: Approximately?
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm not understanding. In these towns, 30-year-old man
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: is getting with a 16-year-old girl. He gets pregnant. That's
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: the part I haven't understood. Where were the parents? Where
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: were the cops when that was happening?
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: There is a culture in Putnam County, and I don't
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: want to globalize it. I don't want to say that
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: this is what small-town white America looks like because you
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: can't extrapolate from one example. But what I have seen
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: over and over and been told over and over by
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: Robin's girlfriends, by Josette's classmates, is if you were a
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: girl growing up in Putnam County, in the town of Carmel,
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: in the town of Brewster, in the town of Patterson,
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: the cops would fuck with you relentlessly. If you were
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: one of those kids who smoked a joint and ditched class,
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: they always found you. If they found you with a joint,
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: if they found you ditching school, if they found you
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: in the woods drinking a 40 at 2 o'clock in
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: the afternoon, this is what I've been told again and
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: again and again. This is what season three is going
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: to be about. The boys would get arrested and forced
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: to snitch and set up their friends for a drug
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: deal so the cops could bust them too. And the
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: girls had to blow the cop at the wheel to
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: get out of the back of that street. So this
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: is the culture of this godforsaken county, Putnam County.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: And now I'm picturing Robin being kind of this goth girl.
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: That's right. She already stood out as a kind of
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: ringer in this scruffy working class town. Right.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Easy target.
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: An easy target, but also this monster had a nose.
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: He had a sixth sense for vulnerable girls and lonely
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: single mothers. And lonely single mothers were Howard Gombert's delivery
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: device for their daughters. So, He did this with the
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: girl we call Rachel R. He did this with Sarah Lindley,
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: her real name. We know that Gombert was a machine.
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: We also know that Gombert had been working up to
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: these horrific sexual assaults from an early age. He was
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: what the FBI wanted. calls a sexual burglar. Have you
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: heard this term before?
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: No, I haven't. Please, tell us.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: Then you break into someone's home to steal watches, cameras,
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: cash if there's cash on hand, small appliances you can resell.
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: The first and last thing you want to do is
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: get the hell out of there as quickly as possible
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: because you're not just risking your liberty as a burglar,
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: you're risking your life. If by any chance someone's home
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: and you think the house is empty, A sexual burglar
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: is someone who goes in to rob the place but
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: sticks around to rummage through the lingerie drawers of his victims.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: And Gombert didn't just steal panties and bras. He had
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: duffel bags full of them when they finally searched his
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: dwellings in the late 90s, early 2000s. He literally... They
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: found so many stolen bracelets, watches, cameras, purses, handbags, but
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: what they found were girls' and women's intimates amassed over
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: we don't know how long. Long story short, Robin worked
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: as a cashier at the Shopperay in Carmel. At the
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: next register was Anne Marie, Gombert's former 16-year-old baby mama,
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: now 19, and she had just filed rape and sodomy
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: charges against this monster. I won't go into why those
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: were dismissed.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: Why, by the way, because you say that also on
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: the pod, that you don't want to go into it.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: Is that just because it's not the timing? You don't
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: screw anything up for the future?
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: Gombert was a compulsive archivist of his sex crimes. He
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: always took Polaroids of his victims. He had boxes and
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: boxes of Polaroids of underage girls, naked or scantily dressed.
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: He had compiled a photo album of pictures of Anne
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: Marie bound, gagged, with foreign objects wedged inside her. And
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: he showed, his lawyer showed that collection of photos to
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: the ADA in Anne Marie's rape and sodomy case. And
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: convinced that ADA that this was evidence that the Gumbert's
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: rapes and sodomies were consensual.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: I couldn't believe when you said it. I was in shock.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: Only in Putnam County would someone's lawyer provide evidence of
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: the crimes that their client is charged with. And the
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: ADA going, yeah, you know what? You're right. I'm wrong.
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: She obviously is a hoe and consented to all of this.
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: And that's what happened with Anne Marie's case. So Anne
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: Marie fled to a shelter.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: And he followed her, right? He's a smart motherfucker.
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: He's a smart motherfucker, but he is so obsessive. Once
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: he has his thumb on a girl, he never lets
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: her go. whether he's with someone else, whether he's three
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: times removed from that assaultive relationship, he stalks, surveils all
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: of his victims. Long story short, she had fled to
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: a shelter. He tracked her to that shelter. She ran
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: to another shelter. He tracked her to that one. She
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: was driving home one day in Danbury, Connecticut, when suddenly
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: he puts his fist against her windshield. For some reason,
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: she rolls down her driver's side window. He sticks a
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: knife to her throat and says, shove over. She screams,
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: starts blowing the horn. The motorists behind her start blowing
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: their horns. He runs away. Within a month of that happening,
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: Robin Murphy disappears. And nobody except her friends and her
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: family give a shit. Mind you, There's a dead girl
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: in the woods who has just disappeared six months earlier.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Paul, where were that?
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: Where were, because you don't talk about them a lot
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: on the pod. I'm sure there's a reason for that.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: But where were the parents in this?
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: They were fighting tooth and nail to get the cops
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: to do their job. They never hauled Gombert in for
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: a grilling in the interrogation box. They did it with
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: Robin's stoner friends. They did it or kept trying to
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: haul in her father and her older brother for hostile questioning.
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: The one person they didn't interrogate was Howard Gomber. Now,
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: the question you're going to ask me is, how on
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: earth does a man who has been charged with rape
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: five times in police filings, many more that we know of,
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: how is it that every cop in Putnam County knew
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: who he was, knew what he did, and allowed him
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: to go on hunting?
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: That certainly is my question.
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: I have an answer. I can't say it on the air.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Oh, come on.
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: Why?
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: Can you say why you can't say it? Are there
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: legal reasons?
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: Well, it's something I can't yet prove.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: I'm saying, okay, fair enough.
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: I ask cop after cop, what was your training? If
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: you're a New York City cop, if you're a Philadelphia cop,
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: if you're an LA cop, six months of academy. Plus,
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: if you want to do any specialized work, if you
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: want to be a narc, If you want to work homicide,
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: if you want to work major robberies, you have to
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: go for, first of all, you have to pass a
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: sergeant's exam. Second of all, you have to sit for
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: intensive detection coursework. There is this constant learning, this constant
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: skill sharpening, at least for cops who actually solve crimes.
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: The vast majority of cops on any city force do
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: absolutely nothing except stand there and look scary. But the
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: folks who actually solve the crimes in every city are
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: the top 20% of the cops. And by the way,
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: the folks who commit all the wrongful shootings, the wrongful arrests,
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: the racial incidents, they're the bottom 20%. You've got the 60%
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: in the middle. In Carmel, nobody got trained to be
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: a cop. Not sheriff's deputies, not, and so, No one
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: ever told them that they could be anything more than
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: bullies with a badge and a gun. And as we
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: say in season one, Putnam County is a place where
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: no bad deed goes punished.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: Just in terms of Robin, right, for a moment, because
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: that case is still not solved. This girl died, was
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: murdered 30 some odd years ago, right? And here, I
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: don't know how Robin's character are dealing with this because
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: I'm sure that they now believe that Gambart is the
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: one that did it.
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: Well, I can give you an update there. So Robin's
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: poor parents were so tortured by the disappearance of the
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: family star. I mean, this girl was so bright. She
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: was beautiful. And she just had... that it.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Did she?
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: I'm glad you're telling us because I just, I know
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: she was, it sounds like she was smart. Even the
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: manager at ShopRite or whatever it was, talked about how
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: she was never late and she was so studious and
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: there was something, she seemed like an introvert, but really
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: she was, you know, she was commanding the room, right?
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: But she was very goth. I wonder if that was
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: part of this in terms of the cops.
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: We were not supposed to have the case file. We
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: have the thousand page case file. I don't want to
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: say how we got it.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: I don't want to know how you got it. Right. Okay.
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: You cannot believe what you as a lay person are
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: reading page after page after page, thinking to yourself, all right,
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: I've seen law and order. I've seen homicide life on
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: the streets. I've seen, you know, NYPD blue. I know
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: exactly what they should have done next. And every single
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: time they did something else. Every time they should have
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: gone right, they went left.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: And Robin's poor parents are, what happens now?
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: So Robin's father, who was an elevator repairman in New
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: York City, commuting back and forth, wound up essentially drinking
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: himself into the grave.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: At a very precocious age. He died of cirrhosis, I
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: assume cirrhosis could have been liver cancer, exactly 13 years
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: to the day after his baby disappeared. His mother now,
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: her mother now lives upstate. The entire family is so haunted.
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: So mom, Judy, in her and her frustration and her
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: grief began writing to psychics. She saw on the Sally
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: Jesse Raphael show. She saw on Dr. Phil. And she
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: got them to come to Carmel and lead the cops
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: around by their noses. And the cops, who wouldn't actually
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: interview witnesses, but did anything and everything that these crackpots
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: on Sally Jesse Raphael suggested they do, spent three years
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: chasing their own tails to go investigate this body of
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: water or that barren patch of woods or when all
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: along the killer was sitting in front of them. But
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: he had lawyered up. He had lawyered up. And in Carmel,
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: if you have a lawyer, we can't touch you. When
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: the cops went to talk to Howard Gombrich, he had
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: just tried to kill himself on the lawn of his
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: father's house five days after Robin disappeared. You can't have
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: a more blatant act of what lawyers call consciousness of guilt.
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: It is like a deathbed confession, right? Swallowed a bunch
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: of sleeping pills, washed it down with vodka, wound up
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: in a semi-coma on his father's lawn. Almost confessed twice.
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: while he came back to his senses. So when they
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: go interview him at the hospital, they ask him, you know,
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: can you reconstruct your movements that night? Can you? No,
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: you know, this guy is the prime suspect. You grab him,
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: you cuff him, you take him to your precinct and
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: you sweat him until he breaks. That's what you've done
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: with every child you framed or you know, sent to
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: rehab or to juvie, but you can't do it with
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: this guy? Well, the day after they completely blew their
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: shot at him, he called his lawyer, Bob Leder, who
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: was a public defender, and said, well, well, well, the
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: cops are after me. He sent them a cease and
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: desist letter saying, do not speak to my client unless
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: I'm there. Had he sent that letter to a New
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: York City detective, he would have said, Here's the address
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: where you can see your client. It's called the Tombs.
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: We're arresting him and we are interviewing him at 9A.
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: By all means, attend. But we're getting that piece of
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: shit on the record about what he knew, where he was,
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: and who or who cannot provide him an alibi. The
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: cops never did that.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: They were just so intimidated that he had this lawyer.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: That was, I mean, I think it sounds, It's not
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: just that. Clearly, they had dealings with him that started way.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: Before his disappearances.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: But then that was just their MO that if you
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: have a lawyer, you're untouchable. I mean, I know it's
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: a small town. I get that there wasn't a lot
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: of money around, but that is crazy.
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: But this is what bad policing looks like. There are
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: police departments, and I've written about great cops. I believe
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: great cops... are artists. I have written about five or
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: six extraordinary cops in my career, and I've basically erected
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: statues to these guys. They tend to be federal cops,
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: but great homicide cops, great armed robbery cops, they are
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: artists at criminal detection. Bad cops are the most dangerous
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: people in any community. Because there are the crimes that
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: they themselves commit. I'm about to report a season about
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: one crooked police department in Putnam County. What these cops
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: did to one woman. It's coming.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: And then there's Robin.
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: And then there's Robin and Josette.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: And Josette.
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: I'll remind you. So I haven't told you about my
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: conversation with DA Robert Tendi when I spoke to him
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: two weeks ago. I asked him to confirm what his
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: task force had told me, that they are actively investigating
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: both cold cases. He said, no, we're not reinvestigating the
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: murder of Choset, right? We got the guys. I said,
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: what do you mean you got the guys? Have you
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: released the identities of these perps to the public? He said,
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: we tried them. They were acquitted, but we got the killers.
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: I said, do you mean the young men you paid
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: upwards of $ 40 million to? Are those the killers you're
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: referring to? The two young men who were not just
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: exonerated by the jury, by Pottham County juries, they wanted
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: to indict you. They wanted to indict your star witness,
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: Denise Rose. So what do you mean you've got the killer?
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: What does that mean?
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: It means he is pathologically unable to admit that he's wrong.
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: that he fucked up. And it's not me saying he
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: fucked up. It's two separate juries who said, are you
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: out of your mind you convicted these guys?
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: These poor guys. These poor kids. They were kids. Okay,
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: so It ain't over. And I don't just mean... No,
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: it's not.
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: It ain't over.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: I want to know what happens now. So these two
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: cold cases and these parents, and I haven't even... We're
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: supposed to be talking about Robin. I want to talk
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: about Josette also, of course. But do they have an
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: idea about what's coming?
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: Is it.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: I know that this pod, because I've seen the effect of...
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: documentaries and pods like this and what they can do.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: So I know that this is going to take off.
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: Oh, it's taken off already. We've been top 20 ever
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: since we dropped season one.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: So wait, so we are waiting for season three to
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: come out for the shit to hit the fan?
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: No, we haven't started. No, in fact, we're still near
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: the end of the production of season two. We have
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: dropped the first three episodes. The Fourth will be out
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: next Tuesday. The eighth and final episode will not be
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: released until we know what's happening with that monster and
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: his pending release from Cheshire Correctional Facility.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: Well, what could be happening? What's on the table?
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: He thinks he's getting out, signing a piece of paper
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: that says, yes.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: Forget about what he thinks. What do you think?
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: There's what I know. And can't say because.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: You don't want to get in the way of it.
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: No, I have been sworn to secrecy by the folks
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: working this case.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: So it's not just you, right?
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: No, no, no, no.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: There are folks working this case now.
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: Not just this case, but Colt. of his in other states.
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: As I say, this man was a one-man crime wave.
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: He got caught in Connecticut.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: Are the other cases murder cases?
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: They are rape in the first cases.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: Children.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: He's only been convicted on one case. There's only one
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: girl that he did time for.
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: He's still doing that time. For some reason, they convicted
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: him of attempted rape in the first of a seven-year-old girl.
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: Why they didn't convict him, why they didn't charge him
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: with rape in the first, which is life without parole.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: What about statutory rape with Anne-Marie?
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: So statutory rape is that has... an expiration limit. What
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: does not have an expiration limit is rape in the first.
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: So what is rape in the first? In Gombert's case,
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: where the victim is under 13 and there is at
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: least a two-year age gap, meaning he's at least two
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: years older, he is permanently at risk of arrest, trial,
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: conviction for rape in the first. which is a minimum,
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: mandatory minimum of 30 years. But there is also an
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: abundance of what is called CSAM material. You know what
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: CSAM material is? Child sex abuse material. What do I mean?
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: The pictures.
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: He's an archivist. He keeps not just pictures, he kept
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: the panties of his victims. So when the when the
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: Carmel PD cops finally, finally, years, six years after Robin's disappearance,
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: searched Howard Gombert's dwelling, they found a suitcase. And in
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: that suitcase were 12 pairs, not nine, we report nine,
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: but there were 12 pairs of girls' and women's underwear, lovingly,
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: painstakingly separated, and sealed in vacuum-locked plastic bags.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: Grow up. Why?
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: Why do serial pedophiles do this?
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: Same reason. I've heard the serial killers, too. It's a
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: pride thing, right?
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: It's not pride. It is, first of all, their way
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: of remembering the victim, remembering... their helplessness, remembering their suffering,
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: it is also the most potent way for them to
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: re-experience the rape, to re-experience the violation. Why? That underwear
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: is unwashed. It's taken from... So, yeah, and You know,
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: we spent a lot of time talking to FBI profilers.
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: One in particular was very good on why men like
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: Gombert always stage these rituals with his victims. They were
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: always bound, very often had their soiled underwear shoved in
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: their mouths as gags. and their bras tied around their
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: eyes as a blindfold. And he was an extraordinarily skillful outdoorsman,
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: someone who had grown up sleeping in a tent because
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: he'd been kicked out of his father's house at 15
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: and 16. And he literally overwintered in the thick of
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: a northeast winter for years in the woods behind his
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: father's house in a flimsy tent with just a blanket
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: and whatever he was wearing for warmth. And so this
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: is a guy who knows those woods like the back
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: of his hand. This was particularly important in the jokes
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: at Wright Murder, because when I went into the woods
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: where she was buried, I am telling you, Jennifer, you
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: could not get there from the road. It was so dark.
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: impossible to get through the thorns, the stickers, the rock walls.
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: It took me a half hour with three private detectives
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: and two veteran woodsmen to get to the scene of
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: where Josette was buried. It was so impenetrable.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: And the fact that he... So it's just Moore, as
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: if Moore is needed, to say.
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: Not many.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: young boys, not to Pippo, not that it's, it's a right.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: We're already.
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: Tell me this. He's getting out in January.
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: 11th is the date we hear.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: So my question is, so now thank God he was
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: so steadfast about keeping these poor fucking girls tokens. And
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: tell me now that you have that. I'm picturing he's
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: going to walk out of the jail. He's going to
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: get picked up by the police and they're going to
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: deposit him right back in. I mean, I'm picturing that
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: is what's going to happen.
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: That is not only the hope, but the plan. But
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: there are still three months and there are multiple, multiple
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: things going on in the background that I just can't
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: talk about.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: And tentacles.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: And it seems as if this is not just going to,
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: he's not the only one going down. I mean, that's what,
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm, I'm getting, I'm picking up from what
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: you're putting down here, but Paul, I cannot believe it's,
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: it's a.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: Very different thing.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: Listening to this, listening to the pot and getting to
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: talk to you like this. We have three episodes out,
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: three or out, three out the eighth. We're not, you're
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: not putting up.
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: And unfortunately, because we've had so little time to make
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: season two, it took us, 13 months to make season one.
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: We've had four and a half because the series was
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: so popular. We wanted to come right back with season two.
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: But so we've got seven episodes that are either written, produced,
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: recorded or in process. And then the eighth will save
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: until the click of those manacles go. Yes.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: So when you come back though, and we can discuss
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: it now, maybe in three episodes or something, we'll give
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: it three more.
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's horrifying. It's horrifying. It's sad. It's appalling.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: It's infuriating, but it's so, I love doing pods like
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: this with people like you who are, so it's making
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: a difference, but you really are.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us. I'm in awe.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: So we'll see you in about three more episodes. Okay.
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: You've got it, my friend.