Latest / All Figured Out with Andrea Barr: Figuring Out Work, Life and Parenting / 89. Want to raise money-smart kids… but still figuring it out yourself? with Jessica Moorhouse

Transcript

89. Want to raise money-smart kids… but still figuring it out yourself? with Jessica Moorhouse · All Figured Out with Andrea Barr: Figuring Out Work, Life and Parenting

• 0:00
  Welcome back to the All Figured Out podcast.
• 0:02
  My name is Andrea Barr. Thank you so much for joining me
• 0:05
  again this week. Today we are talking about
• 0:08
  something that touches every part of our lives and it's
• 0:11
  something that nobody really teaches us how to handle well.
• 0:15
  And that is money. Not just how to make it or
• 0:18
  budget it, but how to think about money, how to feel safe
• 0:21
  around it and how do not pass our money baggage down to our
• 0:24
  kids like some sort of emotional hand me down.
• 0:28
  I had the absolute pleasure of being joined by Jessica
• 0:31
  Moorhouse, who is basically your go to voice of calm and clarity
• 0:36
  and just rational thinking when it comes to money.
• 0:39
  She is also Canadian, which I love.
• 0:42
  She's a financial counselor, best selling author of
• 0:44
  Everything But Money and she's the host of the More Money
• 0:47
  podcast, which has over 4,000,000 downloads now.
• 0:50
  I actually was introduced to Jessica Moorhouse through my air
• 0:54
  pods or no my my earphones back in the day.
• 0:58
  It was about 7 or 8 years ago. I was making a big transition
• 1:01
  after I quit advertising and I was trying to decide what to do
• 1:04
  next. So I was freelancing.
• 1:06
  At one point I worked with a running room and I was going to
• 1:10
  go back to school as well. So I was feeling tight on money
• 1:13
  and I really wanted to find somebody who was young and hip
• 1:18
  and had some cool thoughts about money, who could teach me a bit
• 1:20
  about budgeting, who could help me in and just make me feel
• 1:24
  better about my money mindset. And so I think I took to Google
• 1:27
  and I found Jessica Moorhouse. I found the More Money podcast
• 1:30
  and it really changed the game for me.
• 1:32
  I remember becoming so obsessed with her podcast and listening
• 1:36
  to it to and from on the train, walking to work and not obsessed
• 1:41
  in a way where I became hyper focused on money, but more so
• 1:44
  just I felt more empowered by listening to her.
• 1:47
  So when I saw that she had a book coming out, everything but
• 1:50
  money I, I jumped on the opportunity to reach out and see
• 1:54
  if she would come on the podcast to talk to this beautiful
• 1:57
  audience who was probably going through one of the most
• 2:00
  expensive phases of their lives, and that is parenting.
• 2:03
  So this conversation is definitely for parents who are
• 2:06
  doing OK on paper, but still maybe feel like they're drowning
• 2:09
  in discussions around finances, the stresses of finances and
• 2:13
  just feeling like I want to leave money for my kids, but I
• 2:17
  don't even know what money means, just all this stuff.
• 2:19
  So we are going to talk about your money passed and how to
• 2:23
  heal it, your money present and which is more about how to stop
• 2:28
  spiraling in this kind of expensive season and your
• 2:31
  future, How to raise money resilient kids without passing
• 2:34
  your baggage down to them. How to talk to your kids about
• 2:36
  money, if and when you should do, if you should be giving them
• 2:40
  an allowance. Jessica has big thoughts on that
• 2:43
  and just how we can just take the air out of the topic of
• 2:49
  money. I am so incredibly excited to
• 2:52
  bring you this conversation. I'm so proud of it.
• 2:54
  I'm so thankful to Jessica for coming on and sharing over an
• 2:58
  hour of her time to talk about a topic she knows best and loves.
• 3:02
  So Jessica Moorhouse, thank you so much for coming on and I know
• 3:06
  you're all going to enjoy. You're listening to the All
• 3:10
  Figured Out podcast. I'm your host, Andrea Barr.
• 3:15
  I'm a career coach for parents, mom of two, and a
• 3:18
  self-proclaimed expert at winging it.
• 3:20
  After 10 years in the corporate world, two major career pivots,
• 3:24
  and navigating life with kids, I've learned one thing.
• 3:27
  No parent has it all figured out, and that's OK.
• 3:31
  Here, we're all about growing personally and professionally
• 3:34
  while keeping family time sacred.
• 3:36
  You'll get practical tips, career strategies and musings on
• 3:39
  life, plus guest experts to help us fill in the gaps.
• 3:43
  So grab a coffee or hide in your car for some me time.
• 3:46
  We're about to figure out this work, life and parenting stuff
• 3:49
  out together. Jessica Morehouse, thank you so
• 3:54
  much for joining me on the All Figured Out podcast.
• 3:56
  Thanks for having me. I gotta say, I'm a little
• 3:59
  starstruck here. You're laughing as if it's not
• 4:02
  true, but it is like. I'm like, I don't know, I read,
• 4:06
  I don't know what you got to be starstruck about, but I'm
• 4:09
  flattered. I when we I OK, this is the
• 4:14
  story. I never go on threats, never.
• 4:17
  Like I think I've been on there twice for.
• 4:18
  Some reason I'm obsessed. Good.
• 4:23
  Nice. It's good.
• 4:24
  It depends on what threads you're on.
• 4:25
  I'm somehow got onto a lot of like, author threads and there's
• 4:29
  some juicy drama that I love. Oh, yeah, there's a whole thing.
• 4:32
  Oh, yeah. It's, it's amazing.
• 4:33
  And then there's lots of great threads of like, you know,
• 4:35
  maybe, you know, you're the city you live in or just other kind
• 4:38
  of interest that you have. No, I I love it because I
• 4:40
  stopped using Twitter like, years ago.
• 4:42
  So it was nice to have a space again.
• 4:44
  To. Save my thoughts and things
• 4:46
  like. That OK, OK, OK.
• 4:48
  Well I happen to go on it. Maybe I'll go on it more now
• 4:50
  happen to go on it and I happen to see you pop up.
• 4:53
  I don't even know if I'm following you on there, even
• 4:55
  though I have been a follower of you for a long time.
• 4:58
  And you said something to the effect of, hey, I'm promoting my
• 5:01
  book and what podcast should I be on?
• 5:03
  And I was like, this is my chance.
• 5:05
  And I wrote you an honest message saying you were pivotal
• 5:08
  in my career and financial journey.
• 5:11
  And I would be honored if you could come on my podcast and
• 5:14
  share your wisdom with my my audience of parents who are in a
• 5:18
  financial thick of it, if we can say that.
• 5:21
  And you said, yeah, let's do it. And you have been so
• 5:24
  professional and kind and just normal to just coordinate with.
• 5:27
  And I just so appreciate you taking the time to speak with
• 5:31
  myself and this audience because I think parents need a financial
• 5:35
  hug you. Know definitely, you know, it's
• 5:37
  funny about that. I, you know, once the blue moon,
• 5:39
  I'll be like, hey, yeah, you know, put the call out.
• 5:42
  What should I be? You know, what should I be on or
• 5:44
  whatever like that? And I'm totally fine with people
• 5:46
  like pitching their own shows. But the thing I think that's
• 5:49
  different is you actually followed up like so many, it's a
• 5:51
  while that so many people are like, oh, on mine.
• 5:53
  And I'm like, if you really want me, you got to actually like DM
• 5:58
  me or find my e-mail, which isn't hard to find.
• 6:00
  It's on my website and actually follow up.
• 6:03
  But no one did besides you. So you win.
• 6:07
  Oh my gosh, isn't that funny? Because you see stuff like that
• 6:09
  and you're like, I was like, oh, she's going to get a million
• 6:11
  messages. Like who lied to me?
• 6:13
  You know, like talk about the mind.
• 6:15
  Gotta shoot your shot. You never know.
• 6:17
  That's how I've gotten some guests, some pretty good guests
• 6:19
  on my show is I just followed up or just sent them an e-mail and
• 6:22
  they're like, yeah, but most people just are like they just
• 6:25
  don't do the follow through. You got to follow through the.
• 6:29
  Fortunes in the follow. Up, yeah.
• 6:31
  Oh my gosh, who's your favorite? Who's they like?
• 6:33
  Biggest? Favorite guest or not favorite?
• 6:35
  Who's the biggest you've ever gone?
• 6:36
  Biggest, best, I'd say at one point, this is year, this is
• 6:40
  going back probably a long time ago now, maybe 5 or 6 years, but
• 6:44
  one that I really, you know, like I saw him on Twitter.
• 6:48
  I'd followed him for years when he had a blog and he was just on
• 6:54
  there and I think he was doing a similar call out or something
• 6:56
  like that. I'm like, I'd love for you to be
• 6:58
  on my show. I was like, sure.
• 6:59
  And so I did follow up. I did the DM, I found his e-mail
• 7:01
  or whatever, and it was Perez Hilton who?
• 7:04
  Was. It yeah, it controversial, but I
• 7:06
  used to follow him, you know, back in like the the early 2000s
• 7:10
  kind of thing, when he was doing all that kind of stuff.
• 7:11
  And he said, yeah. And it was an OK interview.
• 7:14
  He was lovely. He was fine.
• 7:17
  But, you know, it was just like, oh, you just got to try.
• 7:20
  And so now because I've had my show for about 10 years, it is a
• 7:24
  little bit easier for me to get guests.
• 7:27
  Like, honestly, a lot of them just come into my inbox.
• 7:29
  A lot of publishing houses, especially if they have an
• 7:31
  author that has a book coming out.
• 7:33
  So I'd say one that was, I was a bit starstruck and this was a
• 7:37
  last fall was Mary from Selling Sunset.
• 7:40
  I don't know if you ever watched that show, but it's a real
• 7:42
  estate reality show that I've been watching since it started
• 7:45
  like five years ago. And so I know way too much about
• 7:48
  her. I'm like, Oh my God, yes, I want
• 7:50
  her on my show. And it was, you know, more of a
• 7:53
  memoir, but there was so much money talk in her book.
• 7:58
  She was a single mom for a number of years and struggled
• 8:01
  financially. And so to see where she is
• 8:03
  today, where she's like doing very well financially, has a
• 8:05
  very successful career, like, Oh yeah, we could definitely talk
• 8:08
  about this on my show. So that was for me, that was a
• 8:09
  really exciting moment. That's so cool.
• 8:12
  But you know what there's something about like
• 8:14
  interviewing or speaking with people, yes, like Paris Hilton,
• 8:17
  who were totally just out there and maybe seemingly random.
• 8:19
  But like the fact that, you know, something about them, I
• 8:22
  just think make think makes it for a more fruitful discussion.
• 8:25
  Like, yeah, you and I, like you don't necessarily have a
• 8:28
  business surrounding parents. You're not a parent yourself.
• 8:31
  But it's like, but I have followed you for so long.
• 8:33
  I trust your advice. I want to put you in front of my
• 8:36
  audience. And I know that regardless, we
• 8:38
  can just have a great conversation.
• 8:39
  I feel like I know you. I've listened to your podcast
• 8:42
  for SO. Long and I get that a lot like
• 8:43
  it's been actually really trippy going on like I've gone to seven
• 8:48
  different cities and hosted events to promote my book and to
• 8:51
  have people that have been following me for a number of
• 8:53
  years, like sometimes some of them from the early blogging
• 8:56
  years. So I was like, I started my blog
• 8:57
  in 2011. So I'm like, that is a long time
• 8:59
  ago and it's so cool for people like, Oh my God, you sound just
• 9:02
  like you sound on your podcast or Oh my gosh, it's crazy to
• 9:05
  meet you in person. I'm like, I am just a regular
• 9:07
  person, but I'm very flattered because it means that, you know,
• 9:11
  all of the work I've put in these past 13 whatever years is
• 9:15
  actually impacting somebody and they feel like there is a
• 9:17
  connection. And I want there to be a
• 9:18
  connection because that's really what got me into this world that
• 9:23
  I never expected to be my career.
• 9:25
  I started as a Blogger as a hobby and started a a podcast
• 9:28
  when I was still working full time as a way to connect with
• 9:32
  people because I didn't want to feel alone either talking about
• 9:35
  money. And that's, that's why I started
• 9:37
  out as a Blogger is I want to share my story, but I want to
• 9:40
  connect with other bloggers who were also sharing their very
• 9:42
  personal story. And at that time, it really was
• 9:45
  a personal thing. People were sharing their, their
• 9:48
  income, how they budgeted, you know, some of their financial
• 9:51
  failures, things like that. And there was no way, there was
• 9:54
  no way to monetize that. You did it and you spend all
• 9:57
  these hours and wrote all of these blog posts just to make a
• 10:00
  connection with other readers and get those comments and the
• 10:03
  comment back and go to their blogs and comments and stuff
• 10:05
  like that. Just to have that connection.
• 10:07
  Because it really was. That was the only purpose for
• 10:09
  for The thing is to kind of create this sense of online
• 10:11
  community. Yeah.
• 10:13
  Whoa, Can you imagine? Like that's pretty cool.
• 10:15
  I think that's I think that's why those people that like
• 10:18
  yourself who got into the blogging in those days.
• 10:20
  Yeah, I didn't why you're all so successful is because there was
• 10:24
  no way to monetize it. There weren't influencers.
• 10:26
  And so I think you guys were all coming at it from a super
• 10:29
  genuine. Place yeah.
• 10:30
  And we would call out people who clearly weren't because slowly
• 10:34
  there were kind of ways where you can make money more like
• 10:36
  just freelance writing for other websites or blogs or, you know,
• 10:41
  you can have ads on your website.
• 10:42
  You really wouldn't make that much money.
• 10:44
  But it was we had at that time, we really did kind of self
• 10:47
  police a little bit in just that if you said numbers, you need to
• 10:51
  back it up or, you know, if you just had to be authentic and
• 10:54
  real and honest. And and that was even there was
• 10:58
  the time where lots of bloggers started out anonymously.
• 11:02
  And then there'd be exciting moment of the big reveal.
• 11:05
  It was like, oh, this is who they are.
• 11:06
  This is what their name is, a real name.
• 11:08
  That's how they look like. And that was always really
• 11:09
  exciting. But yeah, the landscape is
• 11:11
  completely different now. It's wild to see because even
• 11:15
  though it's been a long time, like, yeah, I started back in
• 11:17
  2011, it doesn't, it's not like that.
• 11:20
  Like in the grand scheme of things, it's not that long.
• 11:22
  It's only 2025, you know what I mean?
• 11:24
  And so it is wild to see how where I started to now people
• 11:29
  are, I'm seeing this all the time on on Instagram especially.
• 11:33
  People will start an Instagram account and then within a year
• 11:36
  start making so much money they can quit their job and just do
• 11:38
  that as an influencer. Like that did not exist.
• 11:41
  That wasn't a thing. Influencer wasn't even think
• 11:43
  content creator wasn't even a, you know, title.
• 11:47
  So it's it's wild to see how things have click on it's and
• 11:51
  there's good, bad things. So that's a whole other
• 11:52
  conversation, but it's interesting.
• 11:54
  Anyway, it's interesting, Super. Interesting.
• 11:56
  Yearbook everything but money is incredible.
• 12:00
  I've I'm just devouring it. And I'm going to be honest,
• 12:04
  there was a moment where I was like, is this book for me?
• 12:06
  And I think you do such a good job at the very beginning of
• 12:10
  just squashing any of that. And I was just listening from
• 12:14
  different people's positions and hats.
• 12:15
  I was just thinking about my audience too, to be honest, you
• 12:18
  know, preparing for this interview.
• 12:19
  And I was like, oh, Nope, Yep, good for that person.
• 12:21
  Yep, good for that. Oh, I'm just send this to my
• 12:23
  mom, OK? And send this to my sister.
• 12:24
  Like, it was incredible. Like I was just really.
• 12:27
  You were just like. Why did you think that?
• 12:28
  Was it because you had a certain expectation of what the book was
• 12:31
  and you're like, oh, this is a bit different?
• 12:32
  Or was it like, hey, we're going to get rod reel and vulnerable.
• 12:36
  Are you OK with that? And you're like.
• 12:37
  Oh, yes, and both. Yeah.
• 12:41
  Yeah. You know the moment where I was
• 12:44
  like, I'm going to be honest. You were so honest here, but I'm
• 12:49
  gonna be honest too. I did grow up with.
• 12:51
  Money. Hmm, interesting.
• 12:53
  And I have shame around that. And so I felt very seen when you
• 12:57
  talked about that, when you talked about like the people.
• 12:59
  Who are going to shame? Shame, shame, shame.
• 13:02
  It's all shame. Like it doesn't matter where you
• 13:04
  come from. And I was like, so who am I?
• 13:07
  I don't know who am I to. I have my own money stories
• 13:10
  though, like I don't know how to earn it because I've had it and
• 13:14
  I and I have it or you know, Oh my God, it's like.
• 13:17
  Everyone has their things. And sometimes we just, you know,
• 13:21
  we have a lot of feelings about people who have, you know, grow
• 13:27
  up with less or grow up with more.
• 13:28
  The people who grow up with less look to the people who grow up
• 13:30
  with more, with a sense of like, if only I had that, then I'd be
• 13:34
  much happier and have a much better life.
• 13:36
  And then a lot of people who grow up with more, they may feel
• 13:40
  guilt for the position that they're in, but they don't even
• 13:42
  feel like they have a space to acknowledge that or say that
• 13:45
  because no one cares when you have money.
• 13:47
  They're like, you know, you, Ohhh, you, you know, you
• 13:49
  privileged person, how would you?
• 13:51
  How dare you? But The thing is, and like I
• 13:53
  talk about in the book is we all have our own stories and our own
• 13:57
  feelings and they're all valid. And the problem I often see in a
• 14:02
  lot of like online forums, like, you know, Instagram comments or
• 14:05
  Reddit and things like that, or the blog comments back in the
• 14:08
  days, there's so much judgment towards other people and their
• 14:10
  money when really we should just be eyes on your own paper and
• 14:13
  just focus on you and have a lot more empathy than we do for for
• 14:18
  other people's situations. I mean, there's just so much
• 14:21
  judgment, but all of our feelings are valid and the only
• 14:23
  way that any of us can defeat or heal rather is if we come from a
• 14:29
  place of understanding ourselves.
• 14:32
  But let letting us have empathy towards ourselves and others.
• 14:36
  And most people have a hard time doing that.
• 14:39
  Like I explained in my book, I had a hard time kind of having
• 14:43
  empathy because, you know, I came up from a certain
• 14:46
  background. And so I couldn't, you know, an
• 14:49
  empathy is really just looking through life or the world
• 14:52
  through someone else's eyes and understanding that people have
• 14:57
  different life experiences and they're not better or worse.
• 14:59
  They just are. But often we are, I think, told
• 15:02
  by a greater society or just whatever the mood of the moment
• 15:05
  is that this is good, this is bad.
• 15:07
  And if you you, yeah, you come from money, then you shouldn't
• 15:10
  complain because you shouldn't, you shouldn't have any problems
• 15:12
  because you have money, which is the predominant problem out
• 15:15
  there. But well, that's not true.
• 15:17
  A lot of problems come with money.
• 15:18
  And so, you know, if the the story that I shared, that one
• 15:23
  woman who grew up in extreme wealth, you know her, it was a
• 15:26
  great grandfather. I can't remember how far the the
• 15:29
  story goes, but I think it was a great grandfather, came from
• 15:32
  nothing, started a really successful business, grew
• 15:35
  exponentially. And then there is all of this
• 15:37
  generational wealth that kind of flowed through and was
• 15:40
  inherited. And it wasn't simple.
• 15:43
  It was there's a lot of complexities and there was a lot
• 15:46
  of hurt feelings. There's a lot of family strife.
• 15:49
  There is very complicated. And honestly, when I learned
• 15:51
  about her story, like I kind of feel lucky that I grew up in my
• 15:54
  situation. It was a lot less complex.
• 15:56
  And yeah, we didn't have that much money, but we didn't have
• 15:58
  some of those issues. And so, you know, it's not
• 16:00
  necessarily that you have more problems if you don't have
• 16:03
  money. You could have the same amount
• 16:05
  of problems. They're just different problems.
• 16:06
  And we need to allow everyone to have a safe space to to feel
• 16:11
  what they're feeling and go through because otherwise how
• 16:13
  are they going to better understand their their money
• 16:15
  story and how are they going to heal if we don't let them?
• 16:18
  It's so true. And if you have so much shame
• 16:21
  that you can't even talk to. Oh, my God, it's just there's so
• 16:24
  many layers to it. Like you're not supposed to talk
• 16:26
  about money to people that you know.
• 16:28
  Yeah. And then you're so conditioned
• 16:30
  to holding it in that are you really going to feel that
• 16:33
  comfortable talking to your therapist who you don't
• 16:36
  necessarily want to see weekly because you don't want to spend
• 16:38
  that much money making your therapy?
• 16:41
  But then you can't then talk about your generational wealth
• 16:43
  because they're like, well, what are you complaining about not
• 16:46
  seeing me? I don't know.
• 16:47
  There's just maybe I'm making that story up for myself.
• 16:49
  But it's like there's, it's just so complex.
• 16:54
  Who can you share that with? Who can you share that
• 16:56
  information with? Who even a little bit on that.
• 16:59
  I don't think I shared this in the book, but when I was talking
• 17:01
  with that woman, she shared that part.
• 17:03
  She ended up becoming a therapist and one thing that so
• 17:07
  she mainly focuses on working with clients who do come from
• 17:11
  generational wealth. And part of the reason is
• 17:13
  because she saw so many people in her circle, whether that was
• 17:17
  friends and family who were kind of in the same income bracket.
• 17:20
  Be take advantage by people, be like, oh, you have money.
• 17:22
  I'm going to charge you a ridiculous fee even when, you
• 17:26
  know, ethically they should be charging the same fee because
• 17:29
  it's the same service. But they would charge incredible
• 17:31
  amounts of money to these people because they like, well, they
• 17:33
  have the money, but you're like, that's not that doesn't matter.
• 17:37
  Like, yeah, maybe you can, you know, charge a little bit more,
• 17:40
  but not like 100 times more. And so she saw this and didn't
• 17:44
  like how all these people were being taken advantage of.
• 17:48
  And she wanted to be a more ethical therapist for people
• 17:51
  kind of came from that because, you know, again, just because
• 17:54
  you have money doesn't mean that you don't necessarily have what
• 17:57
  if, you know, they are planning on giving away all of their
• 18:00
  money before they die? Or So, you know, it's just, it's
• 18:03
  one of those things. It's like, yeah, again, there's
• 18:05
  problems on all sides. Do we need to understand that
• 18:09
  it's not easy? Never, never you.
• 18:12
  You actually said a couple times in the book like you were
• 18:15
  talking about inheritance and that being a source of wealth.
• 18:18
  And I think we have to start talking about the fact that this
• 18:20
  is a generation that is about to, you probably know the stats,
• 18:23
  but we are this generation is about to inherit the most wealth
• 18:26
  that's ever been passed down. I understood from an article I
• 18:29
  think I read and ever in history, because boomers didn't
• 18:32
  make a lot of money. They were in a position to do
• 18:34
  that. And now this money is going to
• 18:35
  be going somewhere and we're not talking about money still.
• 18:39
  And I know this generation's about to get flooded with money.
• 18:43
  Like, yeah, that's scary. Because like, money isn't always
• 18:47
  the solution. And, and part of the reason I
• 18:48
  wrote this book is because a lot of people think if I just had
• 18:51
  money that I wouldn't have problems.
• 18:54
  And yeah, sometimes that is the solution.
• 18:56
  If it really is an income issue, your income is not meeting your
• 18:59
  needs, fair enough. More money would fix that.
• 19:02
  You can pay your bills, you can pay your rent.
• 19:03
  You won't have to worry about that.
• 19:04
  But for most people that I see struggle financially is not for
• 19:08
  a lot like we work on their budget and we figure it out and
• 19:11
  we can perfect their cash flow. So it's not actually a money
• 19:14
  issue. It's about everything.
• 19:15
  But money has the title. And So what I, you know, kind of
• 19:19
  going off, we are going to see this big transition of wealth go
• 19:23
  to the next generation. And a lot of these people will
• 19:27
  not necessarily have the tools on what to do.
• 19:31
  And, you know, we see this all the time with like lottery
• 19:33
  winners. They think, oh, great, now I
• 19:35
  have millions of dollars that I just won.
• 19:38
  I know more problems. And they the money's gone within
• 19:41
  a year or two because they did not have the tools.
• 19:44
  And by by tools that don't necessarily mean like, you know,
• 19:46
  a budget, though that is incredibly important, but just
• 19:51
  some of the psychological and behavioral tools to know what to
• 19:54
  do and what not to do. And also like how to, to trust
• 19:56
  the right people in the industry to take care of your finances
• 19:58
  for you. I mean, when you have a lot of
• 20:01
  wealth or even just, you know, I do talk to people often when I'm
• 20:04
  just like in my daily life. And they asked me, Oh, you know,
• 20:06
  what do you do? Or if I'm like friends party or
• 20:08
  something, meet someone new and they tell them and literally, I
• 20:11
  put this in the book. It's like they start whispering.
• 20:13
  You're like, Oh, really? I have something to ask you.
• 20:16
  And I, I've had gotten people being like, I actually just
• 20:19
  inherited something from, you know?
• 20:20
  Grandparents and I actually don't know what to do.
• 20:22
  And I'm really worried about making a mistake.
• 20:24
  And that is a very common thing because again, no one talks
• 20:26
  about money and who do you go to?
• 20:28
  And often, you know, maybe you'll think, well, I should go
• 20:31
  to the bank and talk to an advisor.
• 20:33
  But again, that person, it has a motivation to work with you to
• 20:37
  make money off of you. And so there's a lot of people
• 20:40
  you need to be very careful who who should and shouldn't, you
• 20:44
  know, be involved in your finances.
• 20:46
  Who can you trust and who can you maybe not trust because
• 20:48
  they're actually a salesperson, not a planner.
• 20:51
  And so, yeah, that's part of the the reason for the book is we
• 20:55
  need, you need to understand you and money before you are in a
• 20:59
  position where maybe you do inherit, you know, a substantial
• 21:02
  amount of money. So you know exactly what to do
• 21:05
  with it. You know what to put into
• 21:07
  savings, what to pay, you know, pay off your debt.
• 21:09
  Like have that plan, but most importantly, not let emotions
• 21:13
  involved in that plan because that is why people, you know,
• 21:16
  these lottery winners spend all their money is based off of a
• 21:20
  ton of different factors, including their emotions and
• 21:22
  just, you know, maybe people pleasing or all these things
• 21:25
  that they hadn't worked through before that moment.
• 21:27
  Yes, that's a really, that's a really important point is just
• 21:30
  the like what you said about like you have to just you have
• 21:34
  to like uncover everything like look under the hood, look into
• 21:38
  the past. It's icky work.
• 21:40
  I'm sure for a lot of us. It's good for me, I felt.
• 21:42
  Confronted. Yeah.
• 21:43
  It's supposed to make you uncomfortable.
• 21:45
  And like, you know, like I wrote in the book, I'm not just
• 21:47
  telling you to do this. I did it myself.
• 21:49
  I did a lot of therapy during the course of me writing that
• 21:52
  book. It was a big roller coaster.
• 21:56
  It was a very interesting journey of self reflection and
• 22:00
  it was difficult in some moments.
• 22:01
  And I'd have some difficult conversations with my family
• 22:04
  about things that I'd never processed before.
• 22:07
  And but I came out of it so much stronger and so much happier.
• 22:11
  And I have more tools in my toolbox.
• 22:13
  Even personally, you know, say if I'm online and you know,
• 22:17
  there's an influencer that comes up talking about how much money
• 22:20
  they make. And that would always be a big
• 22:21
  trigger. Still kind of is because could
• 22:23
  then immediately compare myself to this person who I do not
• 22:27
  know, don't know anything about, but they're I know they're
• 22:29
  making more money than me. And then I would start to feel
• 22:31
  inadequate. Now I have more tools in my
• 22:33
  toolbox to be like, great, we're going to mute them, We're going
• 22:35
  to block them. This isn't serving me or, or
• 22:38
  when I'm going through those feelings of like, Oh my gosh,
• 22:41
  I'm, you know, I'm not doing so well.
• 22:42
  If this person's making this, I could be like, why do I feel
• 22:45
  like that when I was perfectly fine and happy before I saw this
• 22:49
  piece of content? Oh, right.
• 22:51
  It's because of this, this and this, this goes from my past.
• 22:54
  This is a trigger. This is how I always feel when
• 22:56
  this happens. So now that I'm more mindful of
• 22:59
  this situation, I can, you know, use some strategies to get
• 23:03
  myself back into that place of like calm, peace and connection
• 23:06
  instead of like feeling really anxious or bad about myself
• 23:09
  because it's just not serving me.
• 23:11
  And that doesn't help. But that's something that I I
• 23:14
  practice at all the time. And then you find yourself
• 23:17
  speaking from experience. When I was going through a big
• 23:19
  career change, when I found you in your podcast, I'd find myself
• 23:22
  on the couch scrolling through. They didn't have TikTok then,
• 23:25
  but I'm sure now it would have been TikTok like Instagram or
• 23:28
  like blog forums of like how to make like side hustle.
• 23:32
  I started, I started started signing up for those research,
• 23:35
  like those online research things.
• 23:37
  It's like you can make like this much money per month.
• 23:40
  Oh my God, I was getting all these emails to do these like
• 23:42
  research, service it. I mean, it was out of control,
• 23:45
  right? And only because I saw this post
• 23:48
  of like this person being promoted at work.
• 23:50
  And I was like, what was I doing leaving my advertising career
• 23:53
  that I'd been working so hard in, Pivoted, did my yoga teacher
• 23:57
  training, had no idea what was next.
• 23:58
  And I was like, yeah, The thing is, I found you because I was
• 24:01
  like, OK, we can break this. Down.
• 24:03
  OK, good. I'm glad I helped.
• 24:04
  Yeah, yeah, it's all worked out. But you know, it's it took a
• 24:08
  bit. Why do you think that?
• 24:09
  People say so let's and let's contextualize this to like the
• 24:13
  working parent who is my audience.
• 24:15
  Yeah. Why do you think you know the
• 24:16
  the stressed out parents of like little kids or whatever?
• 24:20
  Why is it that they automatically go to?
• 24:22
  If we just were making a bit more money, this would all be
• 24:25
  easier. Well, in certain circumstances
• 24:28
  that could be true because if you had more money, you could
• 24:31
  hire someone to, you know, do your laundry, do your dishes,
• 24:35
  you know, daycare is so expensive, you could maybe
• 24:38
  afford that. So money sometimes can be like,
• 24:41
  oh, if we had more money, we would then have more resources,
• 24:44
  so which would free up a lot more time.
• 24:45
  So that does make sense. However, at a certain point,
• 24:48
  it's not about that. So you need to figure out is it
• 24:51
  that or is it not really that? Is it that, you know, I see this
• 24:54
  a lot with them working moms especially.
• 24:57
  Is it that you were doing all of the housework and you're also
• 25:01
  working and you're, you know, being kind of the primary
• 25:05
  parent, but you have a a husband or a wife who's there too and
• 25:08
  they're not doing anything. They're not being kind of an
• 25:12
  equal partner. Then maybe that's actually the
• 25:14
  issue is we need to have a conversation about how can we
• 25:17
  have more balance with everything that goes into is
• 25:21
  maintaining a home and our lives.
• 25:24
  I think too often it's sometimes easier to avoid the
• 25:28
  conversation. You're like, I'll just do it
• 25:29
  myself because they never load the dishes or dishwasher
• 25:32
  properly or they don't do laundry how I like it.
• 25:35
  But that's that's a Band-Aid. We need to have those kind of
• 25:39
  tough conversations to be like, if I want to have more time, so
• 25:43
  I'm not just working at work and then at home, whereas, you know,
• 25:47
  my partner has a lot more free time.
• 25:50
  Well, that we need to have a conversation about that because
• 25:52
  that isn't fair. I, you know, that's how burnout
• 25:54
  happens all the time with new moms, especially as they just
• 25:58
  take on too much. And, you know, again, this is
• 26:01
  like going beyond. There's actually a few people I
• 26:04
  know who are like working on books on these kind of topic
• 26:06
  specifically, which is fascinating.
• 26:08
  But you know, yeah, women do have still, you know, still in
• 26:13
  this world where a lot of people like, Oh no, the glass ceiling
• 26:15
  was broken and everything's equal.
• 26:17
  It absolutely isn't. There's still a lot of
• 26:19
  traditional gender roles that just we fall into at a certain
• 26:23
  point and we need to really identify some of those so we, we
• 26:26
  can have, you know, more time. Because I think often it's not,
• 26:29
  we don't need more money. We need more time and more money
• 26:33
  potentially could help with that.
• 26:34
  Or a partner who fills that role so we don't have to do 2 roles
• 26:38
  is actually what we need. It's so it's such a good core
• 26:41
  like high that you're connecting there between time and money
• 26:44
  because those are the 2 as a career coach for parents, those
• 26:48
  are the two levers that come up within minutes of talking to the
• 26:53
  person. Why are you here?
• 26:55
  Boom, I don't have enough time. Boom.
• 26:57
  I need to, in order to get more time, I need more money.
• 27:00
  How do you, even if we start, I guess going towards the past, I
• 27:03
  know that you're kind of like you need to like unravel that
• 27:06
  whole thing before you get into even the future.
• 27:09
  Even thinking about like when should I introduce allowance and
• 27:12
  all that, it feels like we gotta go back.
• 27:14
  How do you advise, you know, a client if they're really
• 27:17
  struggling with that time, money, stress?
• 27:19
  Like where do you even start? Yeah, well, I would say
• 27:23
  especially if you're like a new parent, it really, I do believe
• 27:27
  when it comes to money. And then like how do I teach my
• 27:30
  kids about money when I don't know what's going on?
• 27:31
  We we do need to put like that the, the error oxygen mask on
• 27:35
  yourself first before we can teach anything to our kids.
• 27:38
  So we need to fix ourselves before we can fix anybody else
• 27:41
  or before we could be a teacher someone else.
• 27:43
  And so you need to really understand what is the origin
• 27:47
  story for me and my money? What what was my first
• 27:50
  interaction with money? That was at the beginning of the
• 27:52
  book where I walk you through an exercise to really uncover your
• 27:54
  first money memory to see has that one instance that if you
• 27:58
  can remember something that happened to you that had to do
• 28:01
  with money when you were really young, like four or five, six
• 28:03
  and you're, you know, in your 30s and 40s or whatever.
• 28:07
  That means that really had a big impact on you and probably still
• 28:10
  impacting you. That may have kind of set the
• 28:12
  tone for you and money and you may not have realized it and
• 28:14
  you've just been going along this whole time with like, oh,
• 28:17
  well, that actually answers a lot of questions I've had.
• 28:20
  And so, for example, I, you know, share my own story of how
• 28:25
  I've always had this complex relationship with money and
• 28:28
  shame. And I never knew where that
• 28:30
  feeling started from. And it turned out it was this
• 28:33
  event that happened when I was four years old.
• 28:35
  I stole something and you know, it was caught and it felt very
• 28:38
  ashamed for that whole situation, of course, but I.
• 28:41
  Never didn't hear. It's a gumball, by the way.
• 28:43
  It's a gumball. Anything crazy was like a $0.25
• 28:46
  gum. Boiler alert.
• 28:47
  And all these 30 years later, still really regrets, but, and
• 28:52
  I, I realized, oh, I never let that go.
• 28:55
  I never healed from that little trauma.
• 28:57
  I was so traumatized and embarrassed by that situation
• 29:00
  for not only being ashamed that I did something wrong, but
• 29:03
  putting shame on my family, making us look that, Oh my gosh,
• 29:05
  that, you know, my mom's kid, you know, she's still something
• 29:09
  that's so, you know, terrible. What terrible kid.
• 29:12
  And so I through therapy and going through all, you know, the
• 29:16
  exercises in my book again, I did all of them myself to kind
• 29:19
  of heal myself. I realized, oh, I have a certain
• 29:23
  story that I've been telling myself about money.
• 29:26
  And, you know, other things have impacted it, some other, you
• 29:29
  know, traumas and life experiences where I always felt
• 29:32
  like I just was not good enough. And I always had to try harder
• 29:35
  to be better or to prove something that no, no, no, I am
• 29:38
  a good person. And I always felt like, well, if
• 29:43
  I get more money, if I'm more successful, then that will be
• 29:47
  the solution that will fix everything.
• 29:48
  But no matter how much I got or where I was at my career, I
• 29:52
  still always felt inadequate because you can always find
• 29:54
  someone who's better than you. And so it wasn't until I really
• 29:57
  started understanding me and my money, my relationship with
• 30:02
  money, that was able to start and really outline where am I at
• 30:06
  right now with money and where would I like to be?
• 30:09
  I don't like to feel icky with money.
• 30:11
  Whereas most people, we do feel bad about money.
• 30:13
  It makes us feel bad when we think about it.
• 30:15
  I don't want to feel like that more.
• 30:17
  That's terrible. Like I'm I'm soon going to be
• 30:19
  turning 40 in a few years and I don't want to feel this feeling
• 30:24
  in that next decade. And so for me, it was really
• 30:28
  about breaking down my relationship with money now,
• 30:32
  writing where I'd like it to be and trying to fill those gaps
• 30:35
  and and see, OK, what are some of those events that happened
• 30:38
  that, oh, this is this happened to me when this, you know,
• 30:42
  trauma kind of resurfaces and I get triggered.
• 30:46
  My behavior is like this and I usually use money as a way to
• 30:50
  kind of self sue. There's all of these things that
• 30:52
  kind of kind of go together that will eventually lead you to a
• 30:57
  place of, oh, that makes so much sense Why no matter how much I
• 31:01
  earn, I never feel good enough or no matter how much I spend,
• 31:05
  it feels good for a minute and then I don't feel good and then
• 31:07
  I have to do it again and I can't get off this hamster wheel
• 31:10
  of overspending. So it's really just about better
• 31:13
  if you would understand your relationship with money, where
• 31:16
  it started, what is impacted it and to really kind of sit back
• 31:20
  and see, oh, that's what's going on.
• 31:22
  You'll be in such a better position to then, you know,
• 31:25
  throw out the bad, keep the good and restructure it.
• 31:29
  So when you're at a point where you do want to talk to your kids
• 31:31
  about money, and I highly encourage you to talk to your
• 31:33
  kids about money earlier than you know, when they're a
• 31:36
  teenager, because they, they know about money.
• 31:37
  They, it's everywhere, right? They see commercials, they know
• 31:40
  about money. Have those conversations and do
• 31:44
  what you wish you had maybe when they were their age.
• 31:47
  So talk about money in a way where there's no shame or blame
• 31:51
  or judgment, but just recognizing, well, money is just
• 31:54
  a tool is something you earn. It's something that you then
• 31:56
  spend to get things that you want or that you need and really
• 32:00
  take the power out of money because it's, it's just a, a
• 32:03
  mechanism, but it's not a character, it's not a person,
• 32:06
  it's not a thing. But sometimes it's such, it is
• 32:10
  kind of such a big character in our lives.
• 32:12
  We allow it to have that power over us, but really we need to
• 32:15
  take our power back. As you were talking, it's making
• 32:18
  me think of just the words. Quiet confidence kept coming up.
• 32:21
  I think I was starting to make it in my head.
• 32:23
  I was starting to do the a little processing myself as I
• 32:26
  was doing when I was listening to your books.
• 32:27
  I listened to your beautiful audiobook.
• 32:29
  Thank. You.
• 32:31
  And, and I was just thinking about quiet confidence and I was
• 32:35
  kind of sitting there was laughing to myself that it's
• 32:36
  kind of like this whole like old money trend, like people are
• 32:39
  trying to dress like old money or whatever.
• 32:40
  Yeah. And what's like funny about all
• 32:42
  of that is that there's something, it's taking the air
• 32:45
  out of it because it's not flashy.
• 32:47
  It's not in your face. It's not talking about money in
• 32:49
  a big way or in a crass way. It's just like this, not
• 32:53
  apologizing for it. That's where I want to be.
• 32:55
  I want to be in a place where I'm not apologizing for it.
• 32:57
  I'm not explaining a situation. I'm not explaining why I have a
• 33:01
  nanny which I fall into that trap all the time and it's a
• 33:04
  weird 1 and I'm like we haven't any cause COVID.
• 33:08
  Oh my God, it's like it's horrific.
• 33:10
  You know, I hear myself and I'm like this is so weird.
• 33:12
  I'm making this weird. Nobody cares.
• 33:14
  Cool, you have any great. No.
• 33:15
  And if they're judgmental about that, that's their thing.
• 33:19
  That is their relationship with money, their judgment.
• 33:23
  Likely they learn something when they were younger about, you
• 33:26
  know, again, we talked about in the book, we all come from
• 33:30
  somewhere and learn things directly and directly from her
• 33:33
  parents. And those include some of our
• 33:35
  our values to do with money. And so a lot of us, if we were
• 33:38
  especially raised lower income, we would look to the people who
• 33:42
  are higher income and have judgments on the things that
• 33:44
  they have. A lot of it has to do with like
• 33:46
  envy. We were envious that they had
• 33:47
  those things and we did not have those things.
• 33:49
  And so we would try to rationalize, Oh, they they
• 33:52
  haven't, well, they have money, you know, as if that's a bad
• 33:55
  thing. And, and I kind of, you know, I
• 33:57
  have a lot of those things I had to rework because those are not
• 34:00
  helpful. Those are those are going to be
• 34:02
  self limiting beliefs. If you feel like having money is
• 34:04
  bad, then you were gonna limit how much money that maybe you
• 34:08
  intend to earn yourself. Or you know, you're going to
• 34:10
  say, like there's this one person I interviewed for the
• 34:13
  book. He came from a low income
• 34:14
  background and his parents had very conflicting values and
• 34:18
  beliefs about money, which was very confusing for him growing
• 34:20
  up where they thought money was the root of all evil.
• 34:23
  And you know, people with wealth, they got it unethically.
• 34:26
  They're all bad people. But also, if we only had more
• 34:28
  money, our lives would be so much better and everything would
• 34:31
  be great. And you're like, so which one is
• 34:33
  it, Honey Badger? Is money good?
• 34:35
  And because of that, he had a very difficult time sticking to
• 34:38
  a budget or never even had a budget.
• 34:40
  And he would spend his money kind of freely because he didn't
• 34:43
  actually want to keep it because he's like, oh, no, I don't want
• 34:46
  it near me. So it's kind of like rejecting
• 34:48
  money because it's like, well, if I accumulate money, then I
• 34:51
  might get into that position of having wealth, and then I don't
• 34:54
  want to be a bad person. But then on the other side, then
• 34:56
  it was spending too much money, and then he got into debt.
• 34:58
  And so he needed to recognize that, yeah, this isn't working
• 35:03
  for me. These beliefs that I got, my
• 35:05
  parents are not serving me. They're actually really hurting
• 35:07
  me. And I actually don't want to end
• 35:08
  up like my parents because I see them now, they're in their
• 35:11
  retirement and they don't have enough savings to to sustain
• 35:14
  themselves. So what can I do now to kind of,
• 35:17
  again, let go of the things that are not helpful And these
• 35:20
  values, they don't really come from me.
• 35:22
  They come from them and their situation, their past, their,
• 35:24
  their childhoods. And what can I adopt instead?
• 35:27
  A better mindset. And so he was able to kind of
• 35:31
  get rid of this idea that money is the root of all evil.
• 35:33
  And also, that's not the Bible verse anyway.
• 35:35
  It's the love of money is the root of all evil, which is like,
• 35:38
  yeah, don't be materialistic, don't be money obsessed, which I
• 35:41
  think we can all agree, yeah, that's not a good thing.
• 35:43
  But also he's like, oh, but if I accumulate more wealth for
• 35:46
  myself, not only will I be able to be in a more secure position
• 35:49
  for me and take care of me, which is great, but then I'll
• 35:52
  also have more resources to help others.
• 35:54
  I can help my community more. I could donate money to charity.
• 35:57
  I can do all these other things because I have more resources.
• 36:00
  And isn't that a good thing? So it's really about reframing
• 36:03
  some of those those things that we don't know where they come
• 36:06
  from until you take a good think you're like, Oh yeah, that's not
• 36:09
  even something I believe in. Why do I still think that?
• 36:12
  It's so funny and it and it sounds like it's also having
• 36:14
  empathy and you talk about empathy in the book, which I
• 36:16
  thought was really cool. And it's not just having empathy
• 36:19
  for others and never knowing what another person's context or
• 36:22
  situation is. We make so many assumptions in.
• 36:24
  That so many assumptions. And how it's, it's sad really,
• 36:28
  but I think it sounds like it's also having empathy for yourself
• 36:30
  and like your little self of like you, however you grew up
• 36:36
  and in whatever context and situation you grew up, that
• 36:38
  wasn't you. It was you, it wasn't your fault
• 36:43
  and it had nothing to do with you because you were a child.
• 36:46
  And so a lot of these things that we have as adults, we got
• 36:49
  when we were children, but they're not helping us.
• 36:52
  They're not serving us, they're hurting us likely.
• 36:54
  And so we need to let those go. But before we do that, we have
• 36:56
  to recognize what the hell are they?
• 36:57
  Because most of us are running on autopilot with our money,
• 37:01
  beliefs and values and feelings. And so that's why the the start
• 37:06
  of the book is really like, let's talk about your feelings
• 37:08
  with money because I guess, no, I bet no one has ever asked you
• 37:11
  how does money make you feel like really feel?
• 37:13
  Let's dig into it because guaranteed it's like there,
• 37:17
  there are, you know, a select few people be like, actually
• 37:19
  feel really good. Awesome.
• 37:20
  You probably don't need my book. But for most of us, we have
• 37:24
  other feelings and they are, you know, shame, guilt, anxiety,
• 37:28
  envy, despair, all these really heavy kind of feelings that we
• 37:32
  need to work through. Otherwise, we're just going to
• 37:34
  be, you know, again on the hamster wheel couple years later
• 37:38
  in the exact same situation. Yes, and you know what, they
• 37:40
  might not need to read your book for themselves, but they should
• 37:43
  read your book for others because I think it does expose a
• 37:46
  huge amount of empathy for those around you.
• 37:48
  You know, like talking about that nanny situation.
• 37:50
  It's so interesting to be like, I have a nanny and my baggage.
• 37:54
  I then try to justify why we have a nanny.
• 37:56
  Yeah, why we have this, why we have that, whatever.
• 37:58
  And then if a person makes a face or kind of has like a a
• 38:01
  look, I start to project what I think their money story is.
• 38:05
  And I'm not acting with empathy. And so then I think they might
• 38:08
  just be thinking or they might smell bad smell or whatever.
• 38:11
  Right, there's so many things there's.
• 38:13
  So many things and then all of a sudden I'm like, Oh my God, like
• 38:16
  I'm justified. It's so you're trying to make
• 38:18
  sense of the world around you constantly and it's just you
• 38:21
  just need to have more empathy. Like you just need to say.
• 38:23
  And also it's none of your business.
• 38:26
  Because money is none of your business and your money is no
• 38:30
  one else's business. And I think again, if someone
• 38:33
  has a judgment, that's on them, it has nothing to do with you.
• 38:38
  But you know, if you, if you're doing the things you're like,
• 38:41
  well, I can afford a nanny, I need a nanny.
• 38:43
  I got a nanny. What's the problem?
• 38:45
  There's no problem. And so it's, it's helping your
• 38:48
  life and, and, and you've got your plan and you're doing it.
• 38:51
  And that's wonderful. But again, it's, it's, I think
• 38:54
  we are just so conscious of at the end of the day, I, I think I
• 38:58
  mentioned this in the book as well.
• 38:59
  The reason we behave or feel or think about things is because
• 39:03
  we're constantly just thinking about other people.
• 39:05
  How do people perceive us? I want to be liked.
• 39:08
  Will I be liked or less liked if I reveal this information?
• 39:11
  And so probably thinking if I revealed that I have a nanny and
• 39:15
  don't justify it, then maybe I'll be less likable.
• 39:18
  Or maybe they'll, you know, they won't invite me to whatever
• 39:21
  because I don't fit their idea of what a mom should be in a mom
• 39:24
  should be working 24/7 or something like that.
• 39:27
  But that's just not the reality of it.
• 39:29
  So I think part of it is we are so focused on what other people
• 39:32
  think or, you know, but what I found is most people are too
• 39:35
  busy actually thinking about what other themselves and how
• 39:38
  other people perceive them. You know, they're not really
• 39:41
  thinking about you. They're too busy thinking
• 39:43
  they're in the same position, you know, So Oh my God, you're
• 39:47
  thinking like, oh, are they judging me because I have a
• 39:48
  nanny and they're probably like, Oh my gosh, is she judging me
• 39:51
  because they don't have it any, you know, like.
• 39:53
  I'm like, I promise I spend time with my kids.
• 39:55
  That's that's the next train of thought.
• 39:56
  I'm like, oh, are they judging me because they think I'm some
• 39:58
  like multi millionaire? Or are they judging me because I
• 40:01
  always assume you're judging me and I'm trying to decide which
• 40:04
  one it is? Or are they judging me because
• 40:05
  they think I have money? Are they judging me because they
• 40:07
  think I don't love my kids and I don't spend time with them?
• 40:09
  So then I start being like, it's great.
• 40:11
  We get to see each other at lunch.
• 40:12
  No, no, no, no, Oh my God, it's like it's wild.
• 40:15
  It's. Also just like it's, you know,
• 40:18
  yeah, there's and there's, I don't know, yeah, there's that's
• 40:21
  a complex, that's a complex one that's really complex.
• 40:24
  You. Know in childcare is like.
• 40:26
  Childcare is such a hot topic. It's so complicated.
• 40:29
  I think women especially, we get that judgment of, oh, you're
• 40:32
  deciding to work, you're not going to stay at home.
• 40:35
  I'm like, well #1 how can you afford to stay at home with the
• 40:37
  cost of living as it is? Like we generally need to people
• 40:40
  who have some kind of income stream coming in.
• 40:44
  But also, why would we just we're not judging the man that
• 40:46
  yes, and Annie, he also has the nanny.
• 40:48
  You know what I mean? Why is the judgment always on
• 40:51
  the women? That doesn't make any sense.
• 40:52
  It doesn't make any sense. OK, so we hear a lot that this
• 40:55
  is such an expensive phase of life.
• 40:57
  You know what? You're just in an expensive
• 40:59
  phase of life. And it almost feels like this
• 41:01
  resignation. And I've said it and I heard it
• 41:03
  from my I have an incredible financial planner in my life
• 41:06
  who's, who's empathetic and kind, and he's always trying to
• 41:10
  reassure us. You're in an expensive phase of
• 41:12
  life. And it's helpful.
• 41:13
  And at the same time, it sometimes makes it feel like you
• 41:16
  were talking about that mission, like the vision down the line
• 41:19
  and how important it is to really like understand what
• 41:22
  you're striving for and why. How much do you want to give?
• 41:24
  What kind of beautiful life do you want for you?
• 41:26
  Not based on what the Joneses think or, or perceiving.
• 41:29
  So how do we reconcile those two pieces of feeling like we're in
• 41:33
  it? And it's like tricky.
• 41:35
  And everybody you talk to was talking about groceries and
• 41:38
  everybody's talking about how expensive kids are.
• 41:40
  And everyone's like, oh, baseball's this.
• 41:41
  But like everyone's talking about money in such a negative.
• 41:44
  They're not actually talking about money.
• 41:46
  They're talking about this like ohhhhh isn't this it expensive
• 41:50
  phase of life? And it's like, it's like talking
• 41:52
  about the shitty weather. Yeah, you're like that.
• 41:54
  It's raining, so yeah. It's raining in Vancouver today.
• 41:57
  It's raining. Yeah.
• 41:58
  And at the same time, we're supposed to hold this vision and
• 42:01
  manifest this like future beautiful life.
• 42:03
  But the two things feel so far away from one another.
• 42:07
  How can sole us as parents? How can a parent, um, Oh my
• 42:15
  gosh, reconcile these two huge pieces that we are trying to.
• 42:20
  I'd say one kind of thing that you can try is talk to parents
• 42:25
  who are out of that phase of life, the ones that are the kids
• 42:28
  are in college or they've moved out, and just to see, like,
• 42:32
  what's that like? Because especially when you're a
• 42:34
  mom, you're likely with the similar group of people in the
• 42:38
  same phase. And so that's all you see.
• 42:40
  So that feels like that's the only thing that exists.
• 42:42
  And so I think it'd be really important to.
• 42:45
  Yeah, try to find in some way whether it's through like
• 42:49
  friends, family, who's not, who's in the next phase, and can
• 42:52
  I talk to them about what that looks like, what that feels
• 42:55
  like, what they wish they did? You know, sometimes you're like,
• 42:58
  oh, actually when we were in that phase, it felt like it was
• 43:01
  taking forever. But then you actually, you blink
• 43:03
  and it just went by so quickly. I really wish I enjoyed the
• 43:06
  journey instead of complaining, like, can't wait till this is
• 43:08
  over and now it's over. And now the kids are gone and
• 43:10
  now I'm an empty nester. Now, You know, that's often what
• 43:13
  I hear from people in that phase is they wish they maybe did
• 43:17
  things a little bit differently or enjoyed things a bit more
• 43:19
  instead of just focusing on some of the really tough parts of it.
• 43:23
  So that's one, one thing I would suggest, but also the other
• 43:27
  thing is, especially when it comes to any kind of like
• 43:29
  financial planning, the thing that really gets us through
• 43:33
  those hard times is that vision of the future of when we get
• 43:37
  over this big hump of, you know, we have, you know, 3 kids there
• 43:42
  in school. They have all these
• 43:43
  extracurricular active, everything is just chaotic,
• 43:46
  inexpensive. Oh my gosh, it it, it does feel
• 43:49
  like it's going to last forever, but then it really doesn't.
• 43:51
  I mean, I've got, I'm not a mom, but I've got a, a niece and
• 43:54
  somehow she's six years old and I'm like, how did that happen?
• 43:57
  She was a baby yesterday. She was a baby.
• 43:59
  What that now she's like this child who has is very smart and
• 44:03
  having full conversations with me and I'm like, what?
• 44:06
  And so life, I mean, I find like this, especially to, as I'm in
• 44:11
  my late 30s, life goes by so quickly.
• 44:13
  And so, but what does get you through those hard times is
• 44:16
  having that, that what, what, what are we working towards?
• 44:20
  And how could we also then celebrate all of those
• 44:23
  milestones? So even during those tough
• 44:24
  times, you're probably going to experience some really amazing
• 44:26
  milestones and those amazing things that you see your kids
• 44:29
  able to, you're like, Oh my gosh, I can't believe they, you
• 44:32
  know, pass that test or, or whatever the case is, you've got
• 44:35
  to celebrate those things instead of so it's about
• 44:38
  balancing of being present in the moment, but never forgetting
• 44:41
  what we're working towards. So enjoy what you've got now and
• 44:46
  don't just focus on the negative and maybe catch yourself when
• 44:48
  you are talking like that, especially you and your partner,
• 44:50
  if you're getting into that kind of mode back and forth.
• 44:53
  You need to be like, whoa, whoa, let's maybe change our tune a
• 44:56
  little bit because the more positive talk that we do with
• 45:00
  each other, that actually makes things.
• 45:03
  Sometimes it just makes things a little bit lighter.
• 45:06
  I do that a lot. I am a natural complainer and
• 45:09
  I've had to work really hard on recognizing when I'm doing that
• 45:12
  and be like, oh, I don't feel good when I complain all the
• 45:15
  time because then it just feels like everything's awful If we
• 45:17
  start just focusing on or not just focusing, but having a
• 45:20
  bigger focus on, but what's working, what's going well?
• 45:23
  What are some really things that we could be really happy about?
• 45:26
  And let's talk about those like 80% and then complain 20%.
• 45:30
  That might, you know, be the thing that you need just to kind
• 45:33
  of, you know, get a little bit of a release, but also focus on
• 45:36
  how lucky and privileged and all the good things that are
• 45:39
  actually happening. That's so true.
• 45:40
  So really celebrating some of the smaller milestones along the
• 45:43
  way. Like we all have the the big
• 45:45
  vision. Say there's like the Infinity
• 45:47
  pool or the vacation you want to go on sitting in the pod or
• 45:49
  whatever it is in the first class, but and you can still
• 45:54
  hold that. But it sounds like you're saying
• 45:55
  like, break it down too and enjoy some of those small
• 45:58
  moments. Something else, a question I
• 45:59
  need to ask you is do you ever, do you find yourself kind of
• 46:02
  advising people or hearing people who are in this space who
• 46:06
  maybe actually should light like loosen the purse strings a tiny
• 46:10
  bit so that they can find more enjoyment?
• 46:12
  Like I've actually thought about, you know, an exercise
• 46:15
  that my husband and I did do when we were deciding about
• 46:17
  childcare. There was a lot of factors that
• 46:19
  went into which I know right now I don't need to justify.
• 46:22
  And one of them was like, do you want to ease the burden to the
• 46:26
  best of our ability, not burden of children, but the stuff
• 46:30
  around it. And like, we want to be in our
• 46:32
  house with our kids and we would like to have a little bit of
• 46:36
  extra support around the house. And so in order to show up the
• 46:39
  best way that we want to and, you know, based on the values
• 46:42
  and the vision we have, this was a decision that we made.
• 46:45
  And I'm so like, I'm really thanking my previous self four
• 46:49
  years ago for doing that. Do you find that?
• 46:51
  Are there times where you're like, just allow yourself a bit
• 46:54
  expanded a tiny bit more where you can afford it so that you
• 46:58
  can enjoy the process, not just wait for this, like check out at
• 47:00
  the end? Yeah, absolutely.
• 47:03
  I mean, I see that a lot with especially people who were very
• 47:07
  focused on, say, retiring one day.
• 47:09
  They push all of their dreams and goals into retirement.
• 47:12
  And you know, like retirement could last 30 or 40 years.
• 47:15
  If you're like, it could also last 10.
• 47:18
  And so why are you not enjoying your life while you're saving
• 47:21
  for retirement? I see that a lot with the older
• 47:24
  generations as they just put everything into, I'll do that,
• 47:26
  I'll start painting and write my great novel when I'm retired,
• 47:29
  when you're like, but you can do it now on on, you know, an hour
• 47:32
  a day, or is that whatever you want?
• 47:34
  You can do whatever you want right now.
• 47:35
  You're not you can do whatever you want.
• 47:37
  And so I think it depends. It's a case by case basis for
• 47:40
  sure, depending on on what your financial situation is.
• 47:43
  What I find I talk about this kind of at the end of the book,
• 47:46
  we talk more about happiness and money and the things that
• 47:48
  actually get us happiness. Let's not lose sight of what
• 47:51
  actually brings us long term joy.
• 47:54
  And it's really time and experiences.
• 47:56
  That's what it is. And so if you have the resources
• 47:59
  to help you get more time and those memories, yeah, absolutely
• 48:04
  do it. But if maybe you're too focused
• 48:06
  on, you know, buying those material things again, which
• 48:10
  most of us buy material goods not for ourselves, but for
• 48:13
  others, we want someone to comment on our outfit, our car,
• 48:16
  our house, whatever the joy that that will bring is so fleeting.
• 48:21
  And so we really do need to shift like the idea of how do we
• 48:25
  spend our money and why? And will it really produce the,
• 48:29
  the, the biggest impact in a positive way?
• 48:32
  And so for you, you found a way that, OK, we do have the
• 48:35
  resources to free up some more time, then let's do that.
• 48:39
  That's amazing. But I wouldn't necessarily
• 48:40
  recommend like, oh, you've got some more resources.
• 48:42
  Yeah, you can buy that more expensive car because I'm like,
• 48:45
  will it give you exponential happiness compared to say, like
• 48:49
  a family trip? Honestly, the data shows no,
• 48:51
  it's not going to make you that much happier.
• 48:54
  Hits that really hits. Yeah.
• 48:57
  And it's so funny how there's so much, I think you said it maybe
• 49:00
  in the book or just in general, like it's just so much of this
• 49:03
  is stuff that we know. But when you contextualize it
• 49:06
  and you remind yourself, like, yes, we know that materialism
• 49:10
  isn't, isn't at like the best thing in the entire world.
• 49:13
  Yeah, we all know that. But you just you definitely need
• 49:15
  to be reminded because I mean, of course you need to be
• 49:18
  reminded because literally everything external, there's
• 49:21
  advertisements, there's TV shows, movies, social media,
• 49:25
  they are all advertising to us telling us, no, no, no, you do
• 49:28
  need that material thing. Your life will only be complete
• 49:30
  if you buy this new thing or this new thing.
• 49:33
  And believe me, I get caught up in that too.
• 49:34
  I'm like, well, if only I get a better coffee maker or something
• 49:37
  like that. And you're like, that actually
• 49:38
  is not going to change anything. Though I do love my Nespresso.
• 49:41
  That was a game changer for me. But I don't need a brand new
• 49:44
  one. You know, they would come out
• 49:45
  with versions and like, I don't need a new version.
• 49:46
  This one is going to last me until it breaks.
• 49:49
  I don't need the pink one. I don't need, I don't need,
• 49:51
  yeah, I don't need all of my appliances to be the same
• 49:53
  colour. That's fine.
• 49:54
  You know what I mean? It doesn't matter.
• 49:56
  Literally no one rarely do. I have like people coming over
• 50:00
  every weekend and they would never critique my appliances.
• 50:04
  No one cares, right? But we often focus on the wrong
• 50:07
  things because everything externally is telling us what to
• 50:10
  think. And so we really do need to kind
• 50:12
  of, you know, police ourselves a little bit to be like, whoa,
• 50:15
  whoa, what's going on here? Oh, I'm being like, I've been
• 50:18
  saying this in my mind. Sometimes I'm like, Oh my gosh,
• 50:20
  I just got influenced. It happens.
• 50:22
  It's real. Influencers really do influence.
• 50:25
  So it's just like everybody else and you need to be like, is
• 50:29
  this, you know, again, there's nothing wrong with buying
• 50:30
  something through an influencer. If it's something that you want,
• 50:33
  you need, you can afford and it fills, you know that again, it's
• 50:38
  it's going to help you get more time or some, some something
• 50:41
  that will give you that long term joy.
• 50:42
  But most of the time they're trying to hack something that's
• 50:45
  you're going to get and they're like, I was happy for an hour.
• 50:51
  Now what? Now why you will never get that
• 50:53
  money back. Great.
• 50:53
  No. Amen.
• 50:55
  The fear of wealth. Hmm.
• 50:58
  Is an interesting one I know. So depending on so if someone's
• 51:02
  doing this work and they're kind of hitting up against this
• 51:05
  interesting phase of life where they're like maybe on the brink,
• 51:07
  they're like camp I'm healing my money story.
• 51:10
  I'm getting to a point where I can feel it coming.
• 51:13
  The vision is maybe on its way. We're kind of getting to the
• 51:16
  maybe especially is this like this audience of maybe 2 income
• 51:20
  earners in a house. They might be reaching almost
• 51:22
  their peak of what's what's the word income.
• 51:26
  Income. Yeah, I got it.
• 51:27
  Money. Coming in money, money.
• 51:31
  When they start to have this, like maybe they're self sabotage
• 51:35
  or there's like a fear of like what happens if I gain the
• 51:40
  wealth? Like what then?
• 51:42
  Yeah, I mean, well, the, the self sabotage, I see that a lot.
• 51:46
  I, I see that a lot with it's very visible with people who are
• 51:50
  like on debt repayment journeys. So I saw that as a lot when I
• 51:52
  started blogging, there is a lot of specific categories of
• 51:55
  personal finance blogs. Some of them were just debt
• 51:57
  blogs. They would talk about their debt
• 51:58
  journey, paying off debt and often what would happen because
• 52:02
  sometimes those blogs but go dead and then they would be
• 52:05
  revitalized a year or two after because they're back in debt is
• 52:08
  because they focus so much on paying off this debt.
• 52:11
  They never learned the skills at the same time on how to save or
• 52:14
  invest. And I think they also maybe got
• 52:17
  so stuck in this idea that I am in debt.
• 52:20
  That is my identity. They didn't know how to then
• 52:23
  identify to well, you're no longer in debt, you're debt
• 52:26
  free. Now you're a saver.
• 52:27
  Now you're an investor, now you're building wealth.
• 52:29
  And so because they didn't maybe do that inner work and figure
• 52:32
  out their money story or how did you even get into debt?
• 52:35
  Because I guess, you know, spoiler, most people don't get
• 52:37
  into debt because they are frivolous or they're bad with
• 52:40
  money or they just overspend. Well, no, it's there's always
• 52:44
  something that is pushing people to it could either be just like
• 52:48
  that's the situation. They were low income, all these
• 52:50
  things were not working to help them get out of poverty.
• 52:53
  And so it's just a very difficult situation or people
• 52:57
  that maybe came from, you know, middle income families or even
• 53:00
  higher income families and they're in debt.
• 53:03
  I mean, it could be for a number of reasons that are maybe more
• 53:06
  internal, such as like, if again, I talk about this in the
• 53:08
  book with if you have any kind of trauma, you may use money is
• 53:12
  a way to soothe yourself. And so that's why there's a lot
• 53:15
  of people out there who are shopaholics.
• 53:18
  They're not shopping because they don't know that they can't
• 53:21
  afford. Like they're not doing it
• 53:22
  because they're like, well, I just like to shop and I just
• 53:24
  have a problem. I have a shopping addiction.
• 53:26
  No, no, you were trying to soothe something internally with
• 53:30
  money and you just need that dopamine hit and then it goes
• 53:32
  away and then you need it again and again and again.
• 53:34
  And so until you really figure out what is actually the cause
• 53:38
  of this situation, then you're never going to be able to kind
• 53:40
  of figure that out. So I think if you have like a
• 53:43
  big actual fear of accumulating wealth, you need to figure out
• 53:47
  why. And it could be that, well, you
• 53:51
  know, even though I'm doing probably better than anyone in
• 53:55
  my family, I'm actually kind of ashamed of that because everyone
• 53:57
  in my family isn't doing so well financially.
• 53:59
  And I don't want them to judge me because they're very
• 54:02
  judgmental with people who have wealth.
• 54:03
  And so I never want to bring up money.
• 54:05
  I kind of hide how well we're doing all of these things.
• 54:09
  And so me maybe self sabotaging makes me feel a little bit
• 54:13
  better because then I'm not this person that I'm afraid to become
• 54:16
  because of all this judgment and shame that I have wrapped up
• 54:20
  into that. So there's always something
• 54:21
  deeper. There's always something deeper
• 54:24
  layers. Who do you advise people?
• 54:26
  So someone's like, Oh my gosh, this is just hitting home.
• 54:30
  How do you choose someone to maybe unravel the psychological
• 54:33
  side of this, but then also like the practical, logistical, let's
• 54:37
  look at your account and let's like really open up the hood?
• 54:40
  There, yeah. So the back of the book or the
• 54:43
  the end of the book I kind of talk about there is a a
• 54:47
  credential called financial therapist.
• 54:49
  It only exists in the States, not in Canada or any other
• 54:51
  country, but if you are in the US, may be someone that you want
• 54:56
  to look into because they can kind of help with both the, you
• 54:59
  know, money mindset stuff and also maybe some of the practical
• 55:01
  stuff. It depends.
• 55:02
  Everyone's different. Like to get that designation,
• 55:04
  you have to either be a financial planner or a therapist
• 55:07
  and then they kind of teach you the financial therapy component,
• 55:10
  which is helping people kind of work some of those blocks and
• 55:13
  things like that. So they may or may not be
• 55:15
  actually someone to be like, oh, I can help you make a financial
• 55:17
  plan because if they're not CFP, then they can't actually do
• 55:20
  that. But in Canada we don't have that
• 55:23
  designation. Basically it's 2 completely kind
• 55:26
  of different segments got therapists and then we've got
• 55:28
  financial planners. And so for the practical how to
• 55:31
  money stuff, that's when you want to talk to either either a
• 55:34
  QFP. So that's the designation.
• 55:36
  Qualified associate financial planner.
• 55:39
  Those are great because their fees are probably a little bit
• 55:42
  lower than a CFP because CFP certified financial planner,
• 55:46
  they typically you get that designation because you want to
• 55:49
  work your way up in the financial industry.
• 55:50
  You want to work with high net worth individuals and so find
• 55:55
  either a QFP, CFP or my designer.
• 55:57
  I'm working towards my QFP right now.
• 56:00
  But you could also work with an accredited financial counselor
• 56:02
  Canada. Those would be someone may be
• 56:04
  good for a little bit less complex situations, more cash
• 56:08
  flow, debt budgeting, kind of just nothing too, too complex.
• 56:13
  But if you just need someone to like kind of give you a jump
• 56:15
  start, create a foundation that might also be a credential you
• 56:18
  want to look into. That's for the money kind of
• 56:20
  part for like how do we structure things?
• 56:22
  What am I not doing financially that I need to?
• 56:24
  And then for all the mindset stuff, the in inner working
• 56:27
  stuff, that's when you want to work for with a therapist.
• 56:30
  Now they may not be able to help you specific like again, I
• 56:33
  worked with I think three different therapists, am I
• 56:37
  right? Three, I think 3, maybe 4 while
• 56:40
  I was doing the book. Yeah, maybe it was 4.
• 56:43
  And I did a couple of different forms of therapy and I told them
• 56:46
  I'm working on a book, but this is also for me.
• 56:49
  And they're like, oh, I don't know anything about money.
• 56:52
  And they're actually actually, I have some questions about money.
• 56:54
  So, so they won't be able to help you specifically, I think
• 56:57
  with money quote, UN quote, but they will be able to help you
• 57:01
  unpack. Like if money is this thing that
• 57:03
  is, you know, blocking you in some way, they'll be able to
• 57:07
  help you figure out how can we unblock it.
• 57:09
  So just like, again, your thing, if your thing isn't money,
• 57:12
  that's not the issue. It could be food, it could be
• 57:15
  body and image, it could be all these different things.
• 57:17
  A therapist can help you with those things to try to figure
• 57:19
  out. Well, like at the end of the
• 57:20
  day, it's never actually about the thing that you think it is.
• 57:22
  It's always something deeper. And so that's when you want to
• 57:25
  find that out and then also find out what is the form of therapy
• 57:28
  that works for me. And so, you know, there is a
• 57:32
  cognitive behavioral therapy, there's regular talk therapy
• 57:34
  that is kind of like the typical one that we always kind of think
• 57:37
  of when we think about therapy. I did 2 that were really great.
• 57:42
  EMDR, which is specific for trauma for it's, it's to kind of
• 57:46
  help you reprocess trauma so you can heal from it, which is
• 57:49
  really great. And IRS internal family systems,
• 57:52
  which I loved, which is really better understanding, kind of
• 57:56
  like they don't use this term, but to most people understand,
• 57:59
  like your inner child, that kind of stuff, really understand the
• 58:02
  different parts of you, what are their roles?
• 58:05
  And again, what is, what's the block, what's going on?
• 58:08
  And so, you know, get interested in, oh, there's more than one
• 58:12
  type of therapy. There are.
• 58:13
  And for me, it was the EMDR, the IRS that really moved the needle
• 58:18
  because I was doing talk therapy for years before that.
• 58:21
  And we never talked about like my childhood or trauma before.
• 58:24
  And it was still helpful, but it didn't for me give me that kind
• 58:29
  of, I guess, breakthrough until I did those other forms of
• 58:32
  therapy. So, so just take a look at
• 58:34
  what's out there to see what might actually be like.
• 58:36
  Oh, that might work. Thank you so much for opening up
• 58:39
  and like and sharing all of that, because I think that the
• 58:42
  gold like takes a village. Yeah.
• 58:45
  Lol but like, but truly, I think we have to really, I, I'm just
• 58:49
  so into really expanding what we see is what that village is,
• 58:53
  whether you're a parent or not, This is a parenting podcast.
• 58:55
  It's like who's in your who is on your board of directors is
• 58:58
  that's what I say with clients a lot.
• 58:59
  I love that it was in that was in that for you.
• 59:01
  And there's, you know, maybe your best friend, there's your
• 59:03
  parents, There's the I have three sisters.
• 59:05
  I call one sister for one thing, I call another.
• 59:07
  Sister Another thing, I've got two sisters and they have
• 59:09
  different roles for. Sure, your friends have
• 59:12
  different. One I send crazy memes to, the
• 59:14
  other one, she's not even on Instagram, so yeah.
• 59:17
  There's always the one system not on Instagram and it's it's
• 59:21
  so true. And I love that you're even
• 59:23
  saying like with therapy, you can diversify your portfolio
• 59:25
  there. And yes, that was an intended
• 59:27
  joke because I'm talking to Jessica Moorhouse.
• 59:30
  Diversify everything. I think it's so it's like the
• 59:33
  people who are like, I go to my chiropractor for everything and
• 59:36
  my chiropractor like heals my inner child.
• 59:38
  I'm like. Yeah, he shouldn't.
• 59:40
  Or they shouldn't. Try to hide my eye roll here but
• 59:43
  like. You're not qualified to do that.
• 59:45
  No. One thing I mentioned in the
• 59:48
  book is also be careful with the term coach because a lot of
• 59:51
  people find, oh, you have a life coach.
• 59:54
  I'm like, they are different than the therapist.
• 59:55
  They do different things. So if your life coaches therapy
• 59:59
  using you, you probably shouldn't be working with them
• 1:00:01
  because they are not qualified. That believe me, I'm not a
• 1:00:04
  therapist at all. And I make it very clear in my
• 1:00:05
  book. I'm like, I'm not a therapist,
• 1:00:07
  even though I talk a lot about psychology and therapy in this
• 1:00:09
  book. So don't come to me for therapy
• 1:00:11
  because I cannot help you, but I can't help you with your money
• 1:00:13
  and just exploring other aspects.
• 1:00:14
  So really know who you're you want.
• 1:00:19
  Yeah, on your board of directors and who is a good fit?
• 1:00:21
  For that life coaches, I think have a specific like a great
• 1:00:25
  role for certain people, but they do a very different thing
• 1:00:27
  than therapy. They can help you like set up
• 1:00:29
  your foundation and help you prioritize and and goal set and
• 1:00:33
  things like that. But you know that just, yeah,
• 1:00:36
  just be aware of that. I 1000% and since you talk.
• 1:00:40
  About money coaches too, because there's I gave those financial
• 1:00:43
  designations and there's people who call themselves money
• 1:00:46
  coaches. Money coach is not a license or
• 1:00:49
  anything. Anyone can call themselves
• 1:00:50
  somebody, coach. And so, yeah, yeah, there's no
• 1:00:53
  regulation or anything like that with that term.
• 1:00:56
  And so, again, if you're like, I want a financial plan, I heard
• 1:00:58
  so and so money coach. I'm like, well, you, you really
• 1:01:01
  should always ask like, what's your background?
• 1:01:03
  What's your experience? What are your credentials to
• 1:01:04
  know if they are qualified to do the things that they're trying
• 1:01:07
  to do? You don't want to like, pay a
• 1:01:08
  bunch of money and you're like, I didn't get anything.
• 1:01:10
  It's like, Oh yeah, Because they weren't qualified to do what
• 1:01:13
  they said they could do, right? And there's a scope of practice.
• 1:01:15
  I think it's, I think I just need to say this.
• 1:01:17
  We're running out of time, but I do.
• 1:01:19
  And we're talking no, no, no. I'm like trying to be respectful
• 1:01:22
  of your time because you're just giving me too.
• 1:01:27
  This is my we're going to be fast friends the the whole
• 1:01:31
  coaching thing. So I love, I'm going to put in
• 1:01:32
  the show notes, the the certifications that you shared,
• 1:01:35
  because I think it is so important to be prudent.
• 1:01:38
  And I think you're you're so right about the coaching thing.
• 1:01:40
  Like I've gotten on my soapbox about this before.
• 1:01:42
  I am an international coach, federation certified coach and
• 1:01:45
  went to school, went to Royal roads.
• 1:01:47
  I did it almost a year long program for this.
• 1:01:49
  And I I huge, they beat it into us, our limitations and our
• 1:01:55
  scope, right. Like not to be they weren't
• 1:01:57
  trying to be negative. They're just like, know your
• 1:01:59
  boundaries. Yeah.
• 1:02:00
  And I think that's the most important thing I took out of
• 1:02:03
  becoming a certified coach, an executive coach, is knowing my
• 1:02:07
  boundaries. And I think the problem is when
• 1:02:08
  you're working with somebody who doesn't have any sort of
• 1:02:11
  foundation or training of which they would beat in every
• 1:02:14
  designation has a. Whole, you know, multiple.
• 1:02:17
  You cannot. Do what you can and cannot.
• 1:02:19
  Do like, even for example, if you have QFP or CFP, that
• 1:02:23
  doesn't necessarily mean that you're also licensed and
• 1:02:25
  qualified to give investment advice.
• 1:02:27
  So right, it's like you're working with the CFP and they're
• 1:02:30
  like, Oh yeah, no, I can manage your investments.
• 1:02:32
  They may not be licensed. And so you, that's illegal and
• 1:02:35
  we don't want to do that. It's terrifying.
• 1:02:37
  And I think it's so important for people to know these things
• 1:02:39
  because you're like, oh, but the person's great.
• 1:02:40
  They seem really knowledgeable. They've been in finance for 25
• 1:02:43
  years. It's just, it's just, you just
• 1:02:45
  have to know. You just have to be like, it's
• 1:02:47
  like hiring a life coach who didn't go to any sort of school.
• 1:02:50
  That's totally fine. I actually think I've gotten to
• 1:02:52
  a point where I think that's fine as long as you know.
• 1:02:55
  What? You know what you're getting.
• 1:02:56
  Yourself, you know, but and what are you bringing to the table?
• 1:02:58
  Like I don't think you should talk to them about suicidal
• 1:03:01
  ideation. You absolutely should not.
• 1:03:03
  And if that person, if you are that person's not saying have to
• 1:03:06
  stop right here. And they should be referring
• 1:03:08
  you. To they should be referring you
• 1:03:09
  out like that's problematic, right?
• 1:03:11
  So just you just have to be intuitive.
• 1:03:12
  You just have to do your research.
• 1:03:14
  Just just know before you go, I have to ask you couple tips,
• 1:03:18
  practical takeaways for the parent listening who's feeling a
• 1:03:21
  bit overwhelmed by money. They're like, they're going to
• 1:03:23
  read your book. They're going to start like
• 1:03:25
  really figuring out where their money stories come from.
• 1:03:27
  But today, this weekend, this month, yeah.
• 1:03:30
  What are a few things that they could just like focus on or do
• 1:03:32
  to just feel a bit better or practically set themselves up?
• 1:03:35
  Oh my gosh. And we have to talk about, I'm
• 1:03:37
  talking to kids about money too. So if we can wrap.
• 1:03:39
  That in there, I'll try to I'll try to put that all together.
• 1:03:42
  So first thing for a practical thing, and I do have a section
• 1:03:44
  of my book that I break down how to create a spending plan.
• 1:03:48
  That's just a nicer word for budget because a lot of people
• 1:03:50
  hate that term budget, which I completely get.
• 1:03:52
  And so if you don't currently have a plan for your money, a
• 1:03:56
  spending plan, money coming in, money going out and what's going
• 1:03:59
  to savings, investments, expenses and tracking your
• 1:04:03
  expenses and your net worth every single month.
• 1:04:05
  That's kind of the three things. Create a spending plan, track
• 1:04:08
  your spending, track your net worth every single month.
• 1:04:10
  Not only, I know that sounds arduous and like I don't have
• 1:04:13
  time for that. I promise once it's set up,
• 1:04:15
  which may take, you know, an hour or two, you don't have to
• 1:04:17
  spend more than maybe an hour, hour and a half per month on
• 1:04:20
  that. And we all have that kind of
• 1:04:22
  time. We can find that time.
• 1:04:23
  If we can find time to do all these other things, we can find
• 1:04:25
  time for that. Because again, this is your
• 1:04:27
  part. I always tell people this is
• 1:04:28
  part of your financial Wellness. You're it's, you know, financial
• 1:04:30
  self-care. And so when you have clarity
• 1:04:33
  with your money, you naturally become less stressed and anxious
• 1:04:37
  about it because you know what's going on.
• 1:04:39
  Why we get anxious and stressed about money is often because we
• 1:04:41
  actually don't know what's happening.
• 1:04:43
  You're like, do I have enough? I don't know, maybe it's worse
• 1:04:46
  than I thought. And then sometimes, you know,
• 1:04:47
  when I'm working with a client will look at their situation,
• 1:04:49
  they're like, oh, that's not so bad, like, right.
• 1:04:52
  So when you know, if you have that information, it will just
• 1:04:55
  help you feel a lot more grounded.
• 1:04:58
  OK, talking a little bit more about the kids.
• 1:05:01
  So honestly, OK, so I don't talk too much about this in the book,
• 1:05:06
  but I do have a friend of mine who just came out.
• 1:05:08
  She's Canadian. She just came out with a book
• 1:05:09
  called Making Bank. I'd say it is more for like you
• 1:05:13
  give it to your like your teenager, your preteen and they
• 1:05:16
  learn about money, which is great.
• 1:05:17
  There's no other book that's really about that's like for the
• 1:05:20
  kid, like written for the kid. So that's a great resource.
• 1:05:22
  I'd like to kind of tell you about Shanley Simmons.
• 1:05:25
  She's amazing and she just came out with that book.
• 1:05:27
  But for allowances, that's another thing you again, you
• 1:05:30
  have to do that inner work because if I had like, you know,
• 1:05:33
  there was a time when me and my husband think about having kids
• 1:05:35
  and I'm like, Oh, I would never give my kids an allowance.
• 1:05:37
  And the reason I said that was because I never got an
• 1:05:39
  allowance. And it wasn't because my parents
• 1:05:41
  didn't believe in it, but that's what I thought because that's
• 1:05:43
  what they said. They're like, we don't believe
• 1:05:44
  it. They couldn't afford it once
• 1:05:45
  they couldn't afford allowances. And so I thought, oh, well,
• 1:05:48
  that's what pushed me to, you know, be so focused, you know,
• 1:05:51
  ambitious. And I want to start working
• 1:05:53
  early. No, I think allowances are
• 1:05:55
  honestly a pretty great tool to help teach your kids how to
• 1:06:01
  budget early, how to to earn and feel like, Oh, well, you know,
• 1:06:04
  get that self, that financial independence and just to learn
• 1:06:09
  the things that most of us never learned schools and wish we did
• 1:06:13
  and then had to figure it out in adulthood.
• 1:06:14
  If you could teach your kids, you know, how to earn money, how
• 1:06:18
  to put some of it away for savings, some for like, you
• 1:06:20
  know, charitable donations or giving back, some for, you know,
• 1:06:23
  just playing around fund money and some for like your needs.
• 1:06:27
  If you teach them that early on, they will be set up for life
• 1:06:30
  when they're in college and university or as an adult.
• 1:06:34
  And having conversations about money early on, like don't do
• 1:06:38
  what most of our parents did, which is money is taboo.
• 1:06:40
  Let's not talk about it because we know how that ended up like
• 1:06:43
  we're all uncomfortable talking about money and it just kind of,
• 1:06:47
  you know, stifled us a bit. So have those conversations
• 1:06:49
  about money and and listen to their questions.
• 1:06:52
  And if there is something that they ask you, like how much do
• 1:06:56
  you and mom make and you're uncomfortable about it, don't
• 1:06:58
  just say, well, that's inappropriate.
• 1:06:59
  You shouldn't, you know, just be like, you know, listen and give
• 1:07:03
  an honest answer. But like, you know, that's a
• 1:07:04
  great question. It's not really something, you
• 1:07:06
  know, just find some way to be like we're not going to share
• 1:07:09
  that information. But what we can share is in this
• 1:07:13
  particular role that I currently have, let's look online the role
• 1:07:17
  that that has typically you can earn between this and this.
• 1:07:20
  Because maybe your fear is like, I just don't want him going on
• 1:07:23
  schoolyard and telling everyone how much I ask for my back gets
• 1:07:25
  back to the parent. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:07:27
  But. You know, if like, the parents
• 1:07:29
  can easily find out what your role is, you know they could,
• 1:07:32
  they probably already have an estimate of how much you make.
• 1:07:34
  So just, you know, listen, encourage questions, and give
• 1:07:39
  thoughtful answers. Yeah, I love that and the and
• 1:07:42
  the term like they're phrase we can't afford that.
• 1:07:46
  Or try to get rid of that. Let's try to try to because
• 1:07:49
  again, that was something that was in brand.
• 1:07:51
  That's it's, I'm still working through in my mind to tell
• 1:07:55
  myself, yeah, you can afford that, Jessica, it's fine.
• 1:07:57
  What can you say instead? Such as, you know, that's not
• 1:08:01
  really in our, you know, the goals that we have right now for
• 1:08:04
  our money. Or will we have a specific
• 1:08:06
  family budget right now? And that's not really in there
• 1:08:10
  at this moment. But you know what great thing
• 1:08:12
  that you brought up that you want to go to Disneyland.
• 1:08:14
  Let's talk about that in the future.
• 1:08:15
  Let's put it on our like future goals list and keep the
• 1:08:18
  conversation going instead of just saying no, we can't.
• 1:08:21
  Even if that's the truth, we cannot afford it.
• 1:08:24
  What's something else we can say that's kind of more positive and
• 1:08:27
  encourages more conversation? Doesn't make them feel bad for
• 1:08:30
  asking the. Question because it's also, but
• 1:08:32
  then it's not shutting yourself down either.
• 1:08:34
  Like if you're saying no, we, we can, we can't afford that.
• 1:08:36
  People like us will never be able to afford that.
• 1:08:38
  Or people like now that now that's part of your identity and
• 1:08:41
  that it's not something that you can change people like us.
• 1:08:44
  But again, money is so fluid and it's anyone can change their
• 1:08:49
  financial situation. Again, sometimes it's easier for
• 1:08:51
  others and some other people. And there's a big part of my
• 1:08:54
  book talks about privilege. But, you know, I think sometimes
• 1:08:58
  saying, well, we can't afford that right now or that's not, I
• 1:09:00
  don't even like the forward part.
• 1:09:01
  It's like, well, it's not in the family budget right now, but
• 1:09:04
  thanks for bringing that up. And we'll definitely consider it
• 1:09:06
  and figure out maybe we can make a plan for that in the future
• 1:09:09
  because then there's like hope and then you're thinking about
• 1:09:11
  solutions. How can we figure that out?
• 1:09:13
  And maybe they'll, you know, come up with their own idea of
• 1:09:15
  like, you know, if we just did this, this and this, we could
• 1:09:17
  afford that. And that is what you want
• 1:09:19
  because as an adult, you don't want to, you know, be in a
• 1:09:22
  situation where like, well, I can't afford that.
• 1:09:24
  Instead of trying to find what's the solution for this problem?
• 1:09:26
  Yes, yes. And it feels like there's just
• 1:09:28
  so much like Doctor Becky's, you know, very prolific figure in
• 1:09:32
  the parenting space right now. It's very much like, how can we
• 1:09:34
  use some of her language around like, you know, not using like
• 1:09:38
  really harsh, finite, like answers to things, asking
• 1:09:40
  questions and like exploring like at their level, age
• 1:09:43
  appropriate, how to talk about these things.
• 1:09:46
  And like it's it's like that thing that we're learning now.
• 1:09:48
  We're like, you could have arguments, say in front of your
• 1:09:51
  children, if that is the way that you communicate with your
• 1:09:54
  partner, for instance, but but tie it up.
• 1:09:56
  So it's like you have a financial discussion with a
• 1:09:59
  partner in front of your kids. Wrap it up in a in a positive,
• 1:10:03
  affirmative way versus being like, you know, throwing.
• 1:10:06
  It's all easier said than done. But yeah, these are just things
• 1:10:08
  that I think work really well together.
• 1:10:11
  Yeah. And just yeah.
• 1:10:12
  Think back of what did I not like about money when I was
• 1:10:16
  growing up and how could I do something currently as a parent
• 1:10:19
  now? Yes.
• 1:10:20
  OK, Jessica, I asked this to everybody.
• 1:10:22
  I have to ask you now, what is something?
• 1:10:25
  And every time I'm like, there's there's got to be nothing,
• 1:10:28
  There's nothing. But what is something that you
• 1:10:30
  would say you're still trying to figure out in your own
• 1:10:33
  relationship with money? That's a great question.
• 1:10:37
  I mean, I don't know if there's anything particularly new from
• 1:10:42
  the stuff that I because I again, went through a lot of
• 1:10:44
  introspection for the book. There's a lot of stuff I'm still
• 1:10:47
  practicing. So I've been like on a lot of
• 1:10:48
  podcasts and saying, I know I say this in the book and guess
• 1:10:51
  what? I'm still working through this
• 1:10:53
  myself. And so, you know, again, a lot
• 1:10:56
  of the I'm not good enough. The negative self talk that was
• 1:11:00
  very loud before I did all that therapy and was starting to
• 1:11:03
  write the book. It's not as loud now, but it
• 1:11:05
  still creeps up. And so I always have to catch
• 1:11:07
  myself. So I'm, I'm practicing when I'm
• 1:11:09
  preaching, so to speak. And so I'm a, I'm a work in
• 1:11:12
  progress myself. And so that's what I think
• 1:11:14
  that's encouraging for people to know though, because, you know,
• 1:11:17
  I'm not, oh, I'm, I'm secured. I'm.
• 1:11:19
  Perfect. So I'm still working through it
• 1:11:21
  because we're all humans and it takes a long time for us to to
• 1:11:25
  heal and to change our brains and, and just some of the
• 1:11:28
  thoughts. So, Oh yeah, I'm just, I'm still
• 1:11:30
  working through things, but I'm much happier recognizing the
• 1:11:34
  things I do need to work through and know that oh, things are a
• 1:11:37
  little bit better. It's a little bit lighter now
• 1:11:39
  compared to where I was before doing any of this.
• 1:11:41
  Work and maybe kind of like the spending plan when you're
• 1:11:44
  looking at your finances once a month, like when you're doing
• 1:11:46
  that introspection, I find that it, I can move through things
• 1:11:49
  quicker. Yeah, when I have the support in
• 1:11:51
  the tools and the people of my board of directors, it's like
• 1:11:53
  you're doing the therapy. You still feel the feeling.
• 1:11:55
  But I find I can move through things quicker because I have
• 1:11:58
  the tools. And maybe that's maybe that's
• 1:11:59
  kind of what you're saying too, is you're like, I've got the
• 1:12:02
  tools. I've got the tools, I didn't
• 1:12:03
  have them before, but we have to use the tools and we still have
• 1:12:06
  to work with them. Yes, OK, Jessica working
• 1:12:10
  everybody find everything but money.
• 1:12:12
  You're beautiful best selling book that you've got out.
• 1:12:15
  Congratulations on that. And where can they find you
• 1:12:17
  online if they want to learn more from you?
• 1:12:19
  Yes, So my website is, no, it's not everything but money.com
• 1:12:23
  though, I think I probably, I think it was smart enough to buy
• 1:12:25
  that domain. I think I bought it just to
• 1:12:28
  redirect Jessica moorhouse.com. If you go to
• 1:12:32
  jessicamorehouse.com/book, it has a bunch of information about
• 1:12:35
  where you can purchase the book no matter where you are and some
• 1:12:39
  upcoming events that I'll be doing.
• 1:12:42
  So working on some more events that I'll be doing in the
• 1:12:44
  future. You can find me on Instagram at
• 1:12:46
  Jessica I Morehouse. And I also have a podcast myself
• 1:12:49
  that is more money centric called More Money podcast that,
• 1:12:53
  you know, we talk, we don't honestly talk, we talk about
• 1:12:56
  money, but we don't talk about like how to money.
• 1:12:58
  That's not that kind of podcast. It really is everything around
• 1:13:02
  money, how you feel about it and just, you know, it's, it's a
• 1:13:05
  nice, a nice listen just to get comfortable with money.
• 1:13:07
  So you can check that out as well.
• 1:13:08
  It really is, and thank you for being such a force for this
• 1:13:11
  topic in Canada especially. That is what drew me to you
• 1:13:14
  initially and why I've been waiting to find the perfect
• 1:13:18
  person to come on this show to talk about money.
• 1:13:20
  But talk. About it from a Canadian
• 1:13:21
  perspective and you're a young woman we're the same age like
• 1:13:24
  it's just it's you're such a breath of fresh air and the more
• 1:13:27
  money podcast is incredible and you can search on podcast apps
• 1:13:31
  now. So if there's a topic that you
• 1:13:33
  want to explore it actually encourage you to do that on
• 1:13:35
  Jessica's podcast because that's a really cool way to do it.
• 1:13:37
  But the the book is definitely this foundational Bible.
• 1:13:41
  Just it's a really fun read too. I was, I'm going to be honest, I
• 1:13:45
  also was like, oh, is this going to be like like No 7 habits of
• 1:13:49
  highly? Effective.
• 1:13:50
  I love story driven. Yeah, it's story driven.
• 1:13:53
  There are some like takeaways, you know, that are really
• 1:13:56
  structured at the end of each chapter because you might be
• 1:13:58
  like, what what happened? Yes, here's the takeaways.
• 1:14:01
  But no, I love books that are narrative first.
• 1:14:04
  And so that's really what it is. And I wanted it to be that you
• 1:14:07
  pick up this book. I'm not just slamming you with
• 1:14:09
  information is some information, but we it's really focused on
• 1:14:13
  people and their stories. So you can see yourself and
• 1:14:15
  hopefully somebody's. Story 100% I feel like you're
• 1:14:18
  like hiding it. You're like hiding the broccoli
• 1:14:19
  in the Bolognese because you're. Likely.
• 1:14:22
  I'm like, oh, I don't. You're not doing stats and
• 1:14:24
  figures. And like, here's a balance
• 1:14:25
  sheet. Let's talk about the accounts.
• 1:14:27
  I don't like books like that. I'm so sick like that myself.
• 1:14:30
  So no, I love a good narrative. So yeah.
• 1:14:33
  And. It's beautifully written here.
• 1:14:35
  Beautiful writer. So thank you, thank you.
• 1:14:37
  Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
• 1:14:38
  I appreciate you. Thanks for having me.
• 1:14:42
  Thank you so much for listening and since you made it this far,
• 1:14:46
  please share this episode with a fellow parent who you love,
• 1:14:48
  respect, and want to support. And while you're at it, hit me
• 1:14:53
  up on Instagram at All Figured Out.
• 1:14:54
  Andrea, I would love to meet you and hear what you are trying to
• 1:14:58
  figure out these days.