Latest / Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond / Giles Martin, Part 2

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Giles Martin, Part 2 · Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond

• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Pushkin. Today we have part two of Rick Rubin's conversation
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: with Giles Martin, and before we get too far, I
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: want to let you know that Rick has a new
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: podcast called Tetragrammaton. After about four to five years of
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: recording Broken Record, Rick decided he wanted to talk to
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: more than just musicians, So on his new podcast, he'll
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: be talking to actors, directors, wrestlers, business people, anyone that
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Rick finds interesting. So make sure to subscribe to Tetragrammaton
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: wherever you listen to podcasts. Now back to Giles. In
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: part one a few weeks ago, Giles talked about his
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: delicate work remastering classic Beatles albums. He also explained how
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: we collaborated with Peter Jackson's audio team and used AI
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: while remastering Revolver. Definitely go check out that episode if
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: you haven't already. In part two, we'll hear Giles talk
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: about his dad, Sir George Martin, who never second guessed
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: his own genius. Giles also shares hilarious stories from his
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: time as a teenager living at his father's storied studio
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: that was destroyed by volcano and the Caribbean Plus Giles
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: talks about the time he was fired and then rehired
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: by the legend Martin Scorsese. This is broken record liner
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: notes for the digital age. I'm justin Mitchman. Here's Rick
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Rubin with Giles Martin from Shango La. We're jumping right
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: back into the conversation about the sensitivity around working with
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: the Beatles original recordings. Have you ever had an issue
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: with over time sometimes the sound on the tape changes,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: like the like the top end. I've had that happen
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: even during the making of an album like now it
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: takes two years to make from the time he cut
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: the tracks till the time you're ready to mix it,
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: it doesn't sound the same. Yeah, what's this bizarre kind
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: of like you know, Holy Grail type thing is that
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: the Beatles record on EMY tape and EMY tape was
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: higher quality than other tape, and so there's yeah, there's
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: there's there's tape from the seventies, especially eighties actually where
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: everything the oxides are falling off the tape and all
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: the things happening, especially the twenty four tract tapes we
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: used to have, and what exactly what we're talking about.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: You play at once you can see the tape heads
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: getting darker and dark as you're playing, and you're losing
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: that music and that information as you're playing that you're
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: watching your work disappear in front of your eyes and
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: your rise in you. And then you bake the tape
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: so it seals your sides back on and then you
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: get to play at once, and then that's it. The
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Beatles doesn't happen. Bizarrely, it just doesn't have. We have
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: never had to bake a tape. I mean we we've
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: now transferred I think in super high resolution and everything
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: backed up, et cetera. Escially, we don't. You know, I'm
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: not sitting there listeners and pressing play. You know, maybe
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: people would like me to be doing but I'm not
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: doing that. I'm actually pressing a space bar when I'm mixing.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: That's cool, It's well, it adds to the miraculous nature
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: it is. It is. It is very strange, and even
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: you know, I suppose I'm one of the closest people
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: in the world to it, and in a way which
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: I never thought I would be planned on being. But
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: I still find it miraculous. I still find miraculous that
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: all of these tapes, I mean, there's only there's two
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: songs which don't have the original original multi tracks, of
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: which there's no other band like that in the world.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: And this is a band that studden ninety sixty three
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: and finished in sixty nine seventeen. Everything is there and
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: everything is everything is in the same place, and it's
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: in really concondition. It's like it's like, I suppose they
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: were lucky as they were successful, but there was something.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: There's something about the Beatles, even talking to them, and
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: even talking to my dad. I said to my dad,
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: I was working I do these I do films when
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: I'm not doing blad Juts films. I was working this
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: Kinsman film, sort of spy capers, and I said to him,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: I was I was trying to work on a scene.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: I was struggling, and it's doing with film companies and
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: know what they're like, They're like, I said, were you
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: ever do you ever think you were bad at music? Dad?
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  Speaker 1: He has a strange question to ask me, and he
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: was very sick at the time. I said, because I'm
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: struggling with this. You know, I always think I can't
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  Speaker 1: do something and then I end up doing it. I've
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  Speaker 1: done it, and then I feel like I haven't done it.
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  Speaker 1: And there's sort of like this gallm like mentality of
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: someone going, you can't do this, and then of course
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: you can, and this I fight with my I fight.
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  Speaker 1: He goes and he closed his eyes and he and
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  Speaker 1: he opened them. He said, nine, No, I always thought
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  Speaker 1: I was brilliant and and and I too, reacts to that.
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  Speaker 1: It's like one is you total bastard, because like I
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: wish I felt like that, and the other one was, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: you were you know. They were like, and I've used
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: analogy before. It's like surfing. You know, I know I've
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: done good things in my life. I know that, but
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: most of the time, and that's surfing. I've been on
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: a wave and it's like this is this is great,
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: But most time, you know, you've surfed way more than
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: I have, but physically and spiritually. But most of the
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: time I'm treading water, I'm paddling getting hit by waves
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: an occasionally might catch one. They were on a wave
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: of the whole time, like they were doing revolvers, like
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  Speaker 1: we've got this idea, let's do this, let's do this,
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: and it all worked for them. It was like it's
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: amazing and they knew that. And then other people knew that,
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: so they preserved what they were doing. There was this
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: momentum that happened with the Beatles that has never been
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: seen since. It's the sort of energy they had. And
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: that's the thing that if I talked to Paul or
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: took to Ringo when I when I like mix an arbor,
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: you know, sit with the capital. We're a capital with
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: Paul and we listened to a revolver together. What he senses,
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: what he misses in his life is that bandy because
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: it was and you know this used they're that brilliant
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: television program with him. Yes, and you're the other person
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: that spent the time with Paul talking about us. It
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: was interesting. It's going back to we're talking about making
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: great records and do with equipments about people. They don't
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: know how they had what they had. They don't know
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: how the four of them managed to create this surfing
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: the wave all the time, and if one of them
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: was going to fall off, they pulled them back on
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  Speaker 1: and carried on surfing. And that's what that's what being
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: a that's what being a great band is that some
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: of the parts is way bigger than the individuals. It's
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: one of the great things I remember that Paul said
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: in the in the three two one series was he
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: talked about the first time that Ringo filled in for
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  Speaker 1: their drummer who wasn't doing who wasn't able to do
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  Speaker 1: a show, and the feeling he said he looked at
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  Speaker 1: John right away and it's like, I hope we could
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  Speaker 1: keep doing this, Like like again, they didn't know that
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: in advance. It happened, and then it's like, oh, this
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  Speaker 1: is what it's this is it? Yeah, And it's an
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: amazing feeling. And we and we have that experience in
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: the studio when we're working on things that we don't
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: really know what we're doing ever, yeah, and then you
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: hear something it's like whoa, there it is yeah, and
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: it's like not because we did anything, but luckily we're
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: able to say there it is when it is yeah.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: I mean I was doing this. I did this Alton
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  Speaker 1: Rocketman film and and we had I got a bandon
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  Speaker 1: for that, and it's a film, so you have money
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: and you have opportunities and answer stuff. And I had
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: to record a bunch of Alton stuff and I got
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: this band and some of his some of his early work,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: some of his records and the band are great. He's
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: got an amazing, amazing musicians. I got this band. It
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: was two young guys and two old guys. This guy
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: robbing back in touches, the main minds, a great guitar player,
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: and these two young guys draw and bass player and
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: the piano player. I used Dave Hartley, and there was
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: this chemistry on that day in the studios, just plowed
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: through like six or seven songs, not even a click track,
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: just like I sat there and going, well, this is easy.
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  Speaker 1: And you have those days and you remember those days.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: We remember those days and you go, you know what,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: whether it's recording Joni Mitchell or or you know those things,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: you just go, well, this is what am I doing here?
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: And that's actually that's one of the things that You've
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: always been inspirational, amazing at Rick is sitting back and
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: letting it happen. And that's I always said it people,
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: what's it like working the artists? And I work with
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: actors more now what were singers? But it's that thing
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  Speaker 1: where you go, you need to tell someone they can
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: jump out of a plane without a parachute and they're
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: going to land safely, because that's what it is. You
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  Speaker 1: need to have that ability to go okay, you're in
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  Speaker 1: a safe space, you know, and the last thing you
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  Speaker 1: want And this is what your work has shown is
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: that I I don't want to work with someone and
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: then put to go back and sing the song in
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: the bath better that night, do you know what I mean?
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  Speaker 1: That's the fear. It's like, this is your and that's
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: what's actually that's one thing that studios do, or occasions do.
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  Speaker 1: That's what's changed. And you can record anywhere. Now if
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: someone comes to your place here, they're going to want
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: to perform. It's brick rubin, for God's sake, and this
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: studio is I'm gonna want to perform. And that's part
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: of the that's bigger than any piece of equipment as well.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: That's so important to be able to have that. And
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: and I suppose the Beatles had Abbey Road and that's
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: why whenever they went anywhere else, and they did, and
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: they made great records. And Dear Prudence was done in Trident,
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: you know, and so was I Want Issue so heavy,
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: and you know, you know, the rooftop concert is pretty good,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: you know, But I love that about Abby a Road,
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: which you know, you we've into it. It's like it
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: can be. It's it's an interesting building. But Studio too
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: is drab. I hate to say it, folks, but it's not.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: It's got a stairwall staircase, but it shouldn't be. It's like,
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: and what happened to pink flow in the beels? They
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: painted the walls with color. Yeah, they didn't need to
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: the music, but the music they were like, had they
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: been surrounded by everything, the records would pretty sounded different,
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? It's kind of interesting.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: And they have those big soft things on the walls.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: It's almost like a room in and Singe asylum a
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: little bit. It's a very big room, not almost it
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: is a room. Yeah, it's a big room, like a
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: big padded white padded room. But it has a magic
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: to it. And you know though, when you walk into
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: that room and you talked, so when your voice changes, Yeah,
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: and there is some again, whether it's physically the space
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: or psychologically in that we know what's happened in this room.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: It doesn't matter you show up to Abbey Road Studio two.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: You're gonna you're gonna do your very best. Yeah. And
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: I always think there's something about you know, walking this
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: walking in the shadows of giants. It's that Glenn Miller
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: and Ella Fitzgerald and like the voices are. I think
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: about sound wave, sound waves never dying out, Yeah, and
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: as reflections of music from the past in that room
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: and in a way, you know, without being too hippie,
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: like a posh hippie. I think that's I think that's true.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: I just think it's true. I think you walk into
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: a space and you're a musician, and you go, I
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: can tell that something special has happened in this room.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: It's like a church. Yeah. No, it's true, and it's true,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: and you can feel you can you can feel it
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: when you're there. And artists are not so different from
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: each other. The reason that artists resonate in a space
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: is because that's a good space to resonate it. Yeah,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: it's true. It's true, and it's different from it's different
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: from being at home. It really is. That's the thing,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: it really is. Tell me about you mentioned earlier being
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: your dad's ears. Talk about that. That's a that's an
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: interesting thing, and I know about it, but I don't
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: really know what it entailed. The nature of music is
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: so language doesn't do it justice. Yeah, so tell me
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: about that. How did it start and what was it like?
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: It was interesting because I wanted to do music. I
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: want to see music. I remember being on a skiing holiday.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: I was fourteen and my dad was playing the piano
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: in the hotels. He had to do an arrangement for someone.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: My dad was a brilliant arranger. It was snowing. I
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: think I didn't want to go skiing. We're in Austria,
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: and I wanted to hang out with him. And I
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: was sitting there and I was watching him, and he
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: turned to go, So, Charles, what do you want to do?
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: I said, I want to do music that He goes, well,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: I didn't think you can. I said, why not? He goes,
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: I don't think you're good enough? And I was like,
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: I was heartbroken, and but I think I was like
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: I was said a slight punk mentality of you know what,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: F you? I want to do it anyway. So I started.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: I started busking, and I started busking in the underground
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: when I was fifteen. You know, I was playing guitar
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: and playing him. I was playing pubs actually when I
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: was fifteen or sixteen, even though on he knew four songs.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: Me and my makes to go and playing pubs. Us
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: played Issue really going Out with by Joe Jackson, but
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: not in the middle bit because it was too We
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: didn't know the chords, you know, it was like you
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: know American Pie. It was just the songs we played anyway.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: And then what happens my dad? You know, when I
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: was about a year after he started realizing, and it
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: was when they were larning a tape machine. They started
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: playing like fifteen nips to fifteen k He was he
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: sort of meters moving and he realized that he wasn't
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: he wasn't hearing it anymore, and he asked the engineer.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: He goes, what's you know what what the frequencies at
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: ten kularts like I can't hear that anymore, And he
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: started realizing that he had. He was suffering from hearing
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: loss and hearing damage and it was quite fast. But
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: you know, my dad was a brilliant man, lovely man,
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: but he's a terrible businessman. And he didn't he signed
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: a world as royalties from the records, so he needs
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: to carry on working, you know, he didn't working to
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: live like most people do. And he didn't want to
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: lose his job, so he didn't tell anyone. When photographs
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: of my dad does he had long hair, like a
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: long hair wet beyond his ears because he didn't want
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: to hide it. He hid his hearing enge from people.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: And I started becoming his ears. And I don't know
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: how it happened. There wasn't a progressive decision. It happened organically.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: He would play me stuff and I would then listen
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: to it. And here I remember when the first CDs
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: came out, the Beatles and Red Blue albums. He goes,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: I don't think they sound right. And they didn't sound right.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: They sound too bright, they sound digital, they sound I
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: went into have your Own and had a massive argument
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: as a seveneen year old with a mastery engineer and
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: old marsh engineer who also probably couldn't hear as well.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: That's probably the only person who could hear at that stage.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: So that's what happened. He would work on records and
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: I would and he would explain to me. Would sit
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: at the piano and he would play. We would play
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: scale on the piano. He would tell me where the
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: notes would run out for him. He got to the
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: stage where he couldn't at the end, he couldn't hear
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: anything above a middle C on a piano, which is
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: quite low. It's like I can't. I can remember. I
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: used to think as a killer hurts, but it's not.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: It's below that. To begin with, It'd be like I'd
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: be able to read his arrangements and nobody's trying to
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: do and then we'd go and record and he wouldn't
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: never hear the top string lines. And so I knew
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: what frequencies were really and we've sat like doing stuff
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: and I said, you know him is if you know
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: this is, and I can go, this is seven K,
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: this is this is what. I don't solo stuff on
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: a mix at all. It doesn't make any sense to
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: me to do. So it's interesting because because I find that,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: like I'm doing Beetles stuff, I won't work on John's
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: voice and get John's voice sounding good. I'll work on
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: John's voice in the song in the kind always because yeah,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: because I find that, you know, it changes, like like
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: for instance, current it was I think a little healthier friends.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: I mean where Ringo's voice was in the mix, and
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: also how Paul's bass was dramatically affected the sound of
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: ringos voice. Actually, sorry, where's Paul's bass was in the mix?
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: If it was central? I think it's left hand side.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: It's not like that. I can't remember. But if I
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: put it central, Ringo's voice would change. And it's that thing.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: So why would I soloway wild solo and then the
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: base changes the voice anyway? All the sort of stuff.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: So I learned about frequencies and became his ears and
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: became we did We did a project at Pete Townshend
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: at hit Factor in New York, and Pete, who to
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: his own omission, has hearing issues. Why should we be surprised,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: he said to me. I mean recently he gave me
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: his book and he's one of the few people that
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: he mentioned me in his book. Like because I was hidden,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: I was I was the person that didn't exist, and
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: no one wanted not everyone wanted George Martin. No one
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: wanted George Martin's son, which is listen, I wouldn't. So
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: I was seeing as this precocious kind of like I
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: want to be hanging around a studio person. I had
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: to be very careful not to you know, not to interfere.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: At the same time, I would have to be responsible
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: to protect my dad. And there was a time where
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: where bands he was working, I mean, I spent a
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: lot of time mons around the Caribbean. He was working
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: on an eighties band called Ultravox, who are very nice guys.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: And the bass player count of the studios as he
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: was going into the studios, and the basse player goes, basically,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: how's it going in there? Georges are going okay? And
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: he went two boiled eggs? He thought, what do you
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: have for lunch? You thought was the question? The base
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: lay realized that maybe you couldn't hear as well as
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: he thought. You know, but the thing about hearing, and
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: I've talked to people about this, is that your hearing
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: ability doesn't mean you can make good records of bad
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: records for sure. And even though when my dad lost
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: his hearing, he could sense things and yeah, you can
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: feel it. I spent to Bob Claymount that this last week.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: Actually we're talking about he's an amazing mixed engineering. He
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: knows that he may not have not not much top
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: end as he had before, but he knows he doesn't
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: make bright reds brights any records. He's trying to work
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: out why that is. Yeah, I think that it's more
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: we hear it not just with our ears, we hear
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: it in a different way. Yeah, yeah, we did. I did.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: I did a forum actually with Andrew Shep's and for
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: kids actually saying yeah, even if you're worried about your hearing,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: it doesn't mean shouldn't inhibit you from making doing this
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: for a living. Like just because you might have perfect
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: hearing or perfect pitch doesn't mean you're make great records.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: We know that, you know what I mean, Like Chris
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Thomas going to hear out of one ear, yeah, you know,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: and he's made great records. Yeah, and they are a
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: great um. You know, Chuck Close is a great artist
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: and he's blind. Yeah, yeah, a great visual artist. Yeah, exactly, yeah, exactly.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: So it's yeah, it's a it's an interesting thing. We
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: have to take a quick break here and then we'll
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: be back with more from Rick Rubin and Giles Martin.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: We're back with more from Rick Rubin and Giles Martin.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Tell me about Monserrat, Well, Monserrat, Monsrat is my dad's dream,
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: Like it's that thing. It's like my dad always did
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: this thing, unless he did he build the studios, He
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: tell me about well, he wanted to build a studio,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: so he my dad's always wanted to build places where
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: things happened, so he wasn't he was. He was at
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: Abbey Road. I was to start working at fifty. He
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: left in sixty six, I think he was still in
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: the Beatles and he built Air Studios, which is a
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: place in Oxa Circus, which I visited and it was incredible.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: It was a great studio. It was a fantastic studio.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: Was it formerly a church? No? No, okay, Air Studios
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: now as a church. And that was one of the nineties.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: The first one was in ox of Circus, right, So
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: that's that's another one of his legacy studios. During the
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: London time, he decided he had some money, which he thought.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: This was very uncomfortable for my dad any money, so
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: he went, he went, you know, I'm going to go
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: and build. He was gonna building students on a ship.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: At one stage he bought a Norwegian even to buy
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: a Norwegian ferry and build the studios on that. That
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: sounds incredible, but then he realized the engine noise again,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: that wouldn't give him what he wanted. So then he
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: looked in the Caribbean Monster at wasn't it was an
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: island which no one went to because it was a
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: volcanic island. It wasn't very tourist and he went perfect okay,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: difficult to get to and he built the studios and
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: he built the studios which was what became was one
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: of the best studios in the world at the time.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: I hadn't need desk. Then later on SSL just when
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: that came in, put in an SSLG series what you'd
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: he built it, you know, nineteen seventy seven was when
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: it started being built open maybe seventy eight seventy nine,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: and it was a studios the same as the studios
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: he had in London, and it became a matched the
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: footprint or same same same idea, yes, so same, but
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: it was living there were living there. There were villas
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: being rented and we had a house that people stayed
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: in residential studios. The Neve desk was a customed need desk.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: I think they're only three built. One went to air
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: and m onement to air and one went to one stool.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: A air at Lyndhurst has has one desk, amazing desk
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: and it became a destination for eighties recordings. Yes, so
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: most of the police records were made there. You know
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: famously that if you look at the video for I Can't,
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: I Can't, there's there a few of their videos you
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: see you seem distinct dancing on the desk or you
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: know there's that, there's that or outside. You know, in
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: the West Indies, it's all ill, Monsterrat, Alton John recorded their,
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Michael Jackson when they're Stevie Wonder was the Earth Wind
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: and Fire, lou Reid, Duran Duran, Iron Maiden, Jimmy Buffett
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: did Volcano did about Monsterrat? You know, every single lastiment
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: de monstrat And this is the inter this thing I
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: talked to Universal about. Now, I go, okay, you've got
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: Adds studios. You've got these studios. You don't have to
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: make money out of studios. You have enough money anyway.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: I don't just come back to the kid that wants
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: to feed the birds and not going to studios. Is
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: where people make make music, not where we make money.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: You can make money out of music, but let's make
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: them create a spaces that artists want to go to
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: inspire people. And that's what my dad did. My dad
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: probably lost about it was eventually destroyed by volcano. You know,
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: don't build next out active volcano would be one of
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: the rules. And he probably lost about two million dollars
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: on Monserrat, and it was it became the destination of record.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: I think there were tax breaks. I think funny enough.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: I think when you were in those days, if you
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: were recording elsewhere, it's when people sold records, and so
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: every artist went there. And as a kid, I kind
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: of lived on Monserrat, you know, me and my sister,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Me and my sister. It was strange, you know what
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: it was. It was really interesting when I was at
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: boarding school. I went to it. I was a teenager,
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: and they would fly me and my sister would fla
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: out on a plane, you know, as as I saw
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: card was an undercompanied minors and you changed Antigua and
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: then get the plane. My parents would meet me and
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: Antigua and then we'd we'd got a Monserrat and it
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: was kind of funny, also kind of lonely as well,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: because you know, everyone was with their mates, but we
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: were with Earthwood and Fire. You know, we'd have been
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: having dinner with these like you know, you remember these
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: like Little River Band Australian band. I remember spent a
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: lot of time with dinners with them, or or Ultravox
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: as I mentioned, or you know, Paul McCartney came out there.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: You know, we knew the police really well because they
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: were there and you kind of were. I was always
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: on duty on the studio. But for me, a studios
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: was were there with your whole family, yeah, my mom,
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: my sister. For us, it was kind of interesting because
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: I always remember like i'd go, I'd be able to
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: go into control on the studios when there was no
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: one there, and there was like a Fender stratocaster on
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: a stand in the live room, and then I knew
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: what I was allowed to touch it, and I like,
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: you know, one day I'll have a Fender Stratic. One
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: day I might have a guitar at this And I
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: found out years later it wasn't actually was it was
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: a copy. It was so just stuck a Fender stratocast
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: like a Japanese thing, But it was. It was an
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: amazing experience that I think the thing for me, it's
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: funny looking back at it, you know, because we're hearing
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: your wonderful studios Lightnary monsrat wasn't like that. The control
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: had a window in it which overlooked the sea, which
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: is beautiful. It was the monster was the top of
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: the hill next to the volcano which then erupted and
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: you could look down the mountain, see the sea and
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: see the sunset if that Stevie Wonder was there and
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: said to my dad, this is a beautiful sunset. My dad,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: yes it is, and then realized that Steve Wonder was
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: just making her jokes and you what time it was?
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: It's just really but it was. But then the live
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: room had no windows at all, you know, like a
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: seventy studios and they got the whole vibe a bit
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: like casinos. The whole idea about studios there is no
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: one want to know what time it was. Yeah. So
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: then in the Stones, the Stones did a couple of
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: albums there, I think, and they would go there and
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: like they would be up till four in the morning.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: But then all there's a kid on the interesting that
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: happens about because it's residential people that like the drugs.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: And you know, me and my sister was we were
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: staying in our house, which whether we had a house
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: which was which was a guesthouse, an old guesthouse has
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: six bedrooms going down a corridor, and that's where mainly
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: the Rhodes and extra because it wasn't that posh and
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: artist would stay in villas that were rented. And I
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: said to my sister, do you want to get a
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: backcamm And her name was Lucy, and she's great, and
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: she's she's two years old than me, and and she
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: goes yeah, And so we haven't got the backcama case.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: And I swear rick half of this quite large backgame
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: in case had a big bag of white powder in it. Okay,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: I'm like a like a big bag of white powder.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: And I went to my sitomen, that's drugs I must
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: see in an out eleven years old. And I stopped
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: my finger because that's what in the cop shows, you remember,
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: that's what you like to see. You see your finger
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: and you start like I was obviously dabbing cocaine. My
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: parents came down there. What do you do? When I
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: found some drugs? They were like for us, it was
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: like a cop show, and they're like, oh my god,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: you know this is And my dad was like grabbed
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: it and and iban the tossed this bag into the garden.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: You had all these humming birds flying around and looks
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: like smoking cigarettes And actually I used to be having
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: right now I'm an actor or whatever. But that's you know,
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: this is that it was for us. It was kind
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: of it was kind of normal. It was a weird thing,
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: you know. We were we were very kind of British
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: as I am a kid and in an unusual circumstances.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: And tell me about the place. Was there a little
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: town close there was that there was a month rat
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: had had eleven thousand people on it at the time,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: as most people out now find because because the eruption
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: had has a town called Plymouth, which was the main town,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: which was down the road if you like a British
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: film of the colonial British town. Interesting. I went back
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: Arthur volcan erupted and I was loud back in because
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: we owned the studios. And I went there with the
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: head of police and where the chip where there was
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: a clock tower in the town square, a bit like
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: back to the future. Yeah, and you could stand next
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: to the face of the clock because the whole of
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: the volcanic ash piled up. Wow, it's an amazing It
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: was an amazing thing, you know, there's a great there's
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: a great film actually on that, this great woman directors
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: made on Monserrat and the legacy of Monserrat and my dad.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: I found it very sound. My dad's stand at the end.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: It was his dream and he made the great thing
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: about my dad. He made his dreams so beautiful, you
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: know he did. He was and you met him. He
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: was a lovely guy. And he stands at the end.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: He's very very old. He's like, you know, he's not
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: the George Mounty people remember. And he's there standing on
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: the drylic side of what was his dream, the studios,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: and he goes, well, the thing is, you know we
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: all turned to dust in the end, Yes, you know,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: we all that's the thing we all to And it's like,
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: he's fine, it's fine. I found a point of sad.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: But going to monster at and we still, you know,
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: have the studios there for what it's worth it. He
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: wants to buy a studio as a monster. Let me know,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: we ever start a studios there. It's a derelict. No,
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: it's a derelict property, I understand, with things falling through it.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: But it was a dream. It was a it was
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: it was this dream that happened, and and people say
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: to me, would you do it again? I go when
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: there's times different. Now you don't need to We can
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: go with these microphones we have and go to a
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: place and record something now without having to build a
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: build a place, you know, because it was very tough
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: to do for him. And so many people have so
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: many amazing memories of their time, they're beautiful. Do you
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: know what sparked the idea for your dad to build
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: a studio in that place? He wanted to build the
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: studios which was somewhere completely different. He wanted to build
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: somewhere where artists could go and be away from everything else.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: And you think that's because he had spent so much
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: time in London making music that the idea of doing
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: it elsewhere was it would be inspiring to him, and
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: thus he assumed it would be inspiring to other people
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: who've been doing it for a long time as well. Yeah,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: I think there's that, and I think there's also My
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: dad had an element of plunking about him as well,
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: funny enough that despite his stature and the fact he
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: looked a bit like Prince Philip and the fact he
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: spoke like he did like mean I sound like my
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: dad and I'm the same. There's an anarchy that lies
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: beneath us. Yeah, well you can tell from the comedy
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: albums he worked, you can see there's more there. So
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: with EMI, forst my dad, his voice wasn't his voice.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: He changed. My dad was a Cockney when he grew up,
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: he was liked, and he changed his voice because he
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: couldn't get it. He wouldn't have got ahead of the
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: music and see without being an English gentleman, and became
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: almost changed his persona. He was actually more working class
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: than at least two of the Beatles were amazing. That's
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: people don't realize about it. So he went against em I,
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: you know, even on on so many different levels. He
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: didn't believe and he didn't like the corporate world. Yes,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: he liked the artistic world. Yes, you know. So you're
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: rebelled against Abbey Road built air st under food for
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: associated independent recorders. He wanted to be independent. There's even
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: a Beatles Christmas message where they go George has got independent,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: you know, because he wanted to be away from that
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: system of the factory, if you like. And then he
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: wanted to build a place where artists could go and
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: be away from the record label and be free and
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: be free and make and it worked for him. I
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: think the records that were made a monster probably have
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: made a you know what, one half billion dollars worth
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: of you whatever it is, I mean like a Brothers
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: and Arms loan was you know it was? Did he
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: produce all of the music? Adams the artists worked there,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: you know, And it's and it's funny meeting people from
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: that era, Like there's a bunch of engineers and producers,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: so I like Hugh Pagam and Neil Drseman and that
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: era of and they couldn't believe in those days and
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: it sounds so hard. They would go somewhere where you'd
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: have to get a plane to Antigua, get either a
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: charter plane or a small boat to get to this place,
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: and they'd walk into this room and it would be
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: like walking into one of the best studios in the world.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: And my dad loved that. He loved the idea. I mean,
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: there's the stories that have been in monstrat I mean
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: there were drivers, for instance, they would drive the band
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: around and one of the there was always bell falling
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: out with one of the drivers fill out with another
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: driver or fill out with a band member probably probably
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: one of the musicians was route to him. He stole
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: the pool but the white pool ball from the pool
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: table in the studios because because he knew the band
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: like playing pool, and they couldn't get another white pool
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: ball because it was you can't get anything on the island.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: How long would it take to get supplies of any
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: kind if you needed something? A couple of weeks? Yeah,
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: so so like just equipment and stuff like that. And
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: you know, they just imagine the logistics of bands going
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: out there and flying flight case of stuff. And I've
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: been making albums different places in the world and it's
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: still uh yeah, it's still a challenge. Yeah, and and
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: and and in those days it was more because also, yes,
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: the scale of what was needed was some tape bigger
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: than it is now define define shift from the tapes back. Yeah,
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: it's it was, but it was it was, it was
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: worth it, do you know what I mean? Absolutely? I
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: love it. Yeah, I love it. It does sound like
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: a dream come true. Yeah, And like most of these
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: love the main problem is that weren't actually the bands.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: It was like problems the band's girlfriends and managers and
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: you know, people getting bored and getting drunk and fall
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: into swimming pools. And I remember that as a kid.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: That was always there was always a drama happening with
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: someone getting drunk and crashing a car or it was
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: always that kind of thing that would happen. But I
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: think what artists liked about it. I mean I spoke
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: to Elton about it. He liked the fact that he
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: wasn't It was such a he wasn't anyone there. Yes,
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: because that's why my dad chose it, because which was
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: really very rural, if you like, and also because it
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: was a very black art and that sortimes ridiculous because
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: the Western Indians, but you have to bear him on
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: the Westerns has a huge sense of colonialism. And it
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: wasn't touristy. So only if like if Stevie Wonder came here,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: that was that would be interesting. But if Alton John
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: was one of the streets or Stinger was one of
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: the shot, if they knew he was, they didn't care
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: about who he was. So Alton John, there's a chicken shack,
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: you know. Everything was like they're doing enough of restaurants.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Alan used to love this chicken shack, you know, I
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: used to go down there and it was bizarre. I
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: mean I remember was a kid. There was one boat.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: There was one of like it's like a thirty five
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: sailing boat that a guy called Ken used to take
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: people around to a beach on and we went with
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: Alton and Ronata was the tapop was she was the
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: assistant engineer. And then I got back to school and
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: then it was like Alton's marrying Ronata and I was
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: like they weren't even together. Yeah, it's funny, like as
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: a kid, you lived this kind a weird, you know,
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: and now you know things that I ended up working
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: on Alton john Life story film. You go and see that,
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: see his version of the events. But it's kind of
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: and she was great and still actually still hear from her,
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: but it's so strange. As a kid, you I think,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: one thing you realize you work around musicians with great
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: around the musicians, you realize that adults really are as
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: as bright as you think. It's something I stand by today. Yeah,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: I think in general that's the case. It's not it's
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: not we don't really get that. To musicians. People are
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: just crazy, yeah, exactly, and a little crazy goes a
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: long way. That's the other thing. Yeah, that's the other thing.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: You know, that's there's an acceptance and and that's why
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: my father had he was he had acceptance and liberalism
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: to his approach. And yes, and he didn't you know
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: that the preconceived ideas of George Martin and the reality
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: were two very different things, like you know, and you know,
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: he just loved music. You know, it's like, you know,
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: his closest ally was Quincy Jones, because there were two
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: sides of the same coin. Yes, interesting enough, we have
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: to pause for another quick break, but we'll be right
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: back with the rest of Rick's conversation with Giles Martin.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: We're back with the rest of Rick Rubin's conversation with
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: Giles Martin. Can we listen to something from from the
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: new album? Yeah, absolutely, due to mix or you want
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: to hear the sessions, whatever you recommend. I want to
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: hear what you think is going to be most interesting.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: It depends with like a new mix or a session
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: of two different things. What's your favorite song for Bolva?
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: I like them all. I like the albums. I don't.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: I don't listen to songs that way. I listened to Bold,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: I listened to whole projects typically. Yeah, well that's how
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: to play one track. Listen to. She said, because I
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: think it's quite a great this is quite interesting. This.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: I think it's just it's one of those songs that
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: you forget about, but it's cooler. Yeah, she said, I
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: know what it's like to be done. I don't want
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: it is to be sad. And she's making me feel
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: like I've never been born. I said, I put all
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: those things in your hand, things that made me feel
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: that I mind, and then making me feel like I've
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: never been born. She said, you don't understand what I said.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: I said, now, no, no, you're wrong. When I was
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: a boy, everything was a line, everything was right. I said,
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: even let you know what you know? I know that
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: I'm ready to me because you're making me feel like
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: I've never been born. She said, me, don't understand why
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: I said. I said, now I know you're wrong. And
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: I was a boy, everything was a right, everything was right.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: I said, even let you know, watch you know, I
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: know that I'm ready to me. You match the fades, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: that's important. What would it be like if you left
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: them longer? Or or you think that's also part of
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: maintaining what it is. That's part of that's part of
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: what the band wanted. Yeah, do you know, I mean
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: it's part of that. Yeah, yeah, that's where the song ends. Yeah. Yeah.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: A lot of people ask me about that, and quite
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: often they're right as well, do you know what I mean?
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: That's thing is there's a reason why the fade happens there,
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: and hope people go to what happens after that? You go? Well,
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: to be honest with you, not much yea. Yeah. And
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: and you know, on the out techs and stuff. I
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: mean I never put out takes on that. We should
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: just like, here's the song with just no fade on it,
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: because then it's like you have to have the horse
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: on to get to the bit they want to hear.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: I try and match all of that stuff, So I
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: didn't want in a bizarre way, I kind of like
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: the idea of people not noticing I've done nothing. Yes,
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: I always have this theory. I worked on this George
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: Harrison film Living the Material World with Scorsese and Martin Scorsese.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: Like a lot of people rightfully will say, you know,
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: what the hell is this guy doing? Why is he
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: remix and stuff? You know, don't And after four weeks
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: they fired me from the project. I was like, okay, cool,
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: I don't mind. I mean, you know, that's what you know.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: And then Olivia Harrison foam and said, we listened to
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: the stuff and it sounds really bad in the cinema
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: in our playbacks. What I said, well you did fire me,
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: and they went, okay, well you and Martin needs to
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: meet and we met in Delane Lee was the film
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: studios in Soho in London, and I played him all
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: things must passed there was. He had a button on
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: the desk of the amba in the room and he went,
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: this is the one I remember. I went, this is
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: the one that we've mixed with the film, and he went,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: why I don't unerstand it as well, because music isn't
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: necessarily always the way you remember it to be, and
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: that kind of weird. I kind of like the idea
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: of mixing it how you remember it to be. Yeah,
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Oh absolutely, And that's like
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: I want you to listen to while this is I
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: remember it being in my perfect world and not some
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: fandango modern remix of it. Yes, I mean, that's that's
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: kind of there's an arrogance that comes with that, I suppose,
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: because it's like, well, maybe it's how I remember it being,
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: but but there is the thing where you go it's
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: never quite how you remember it, and sometimes it's better
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: and sometimes it's worse. But as long as it makes
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: you feel the same thing, as long as you get
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: the same that's the key. It's like, listening to that,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: it felt I felt a rhythm. It almost felt like
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: it was faster. I know it's not faster, but there
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: was something something I was hearing, something that gave it
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: the feeling of forward motion that I don't remember being
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: in the original. And it felt good. Yeah, nobody's But
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: also the other thing is like it sounds younger, and
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: Ian sounds younger. It sounds like the band's younger. Yes,
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: you kind of what I want to get. These are
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: twenty five year ols planing room, and they'll always be
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: twenty five years playing a room. Yes, then they are.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: They are younger than Harry Styles is now. Okay, and so,
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: and that's the thing about records and recording what I
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: do is like it is time travel. You're going back
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: to that time when we're listening to a twenty bunch
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: and twenty five rods in a room in the same
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: way that we recorded them. Now they'd be bunch twenty
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: you know, twenty five rolds. It's timeless, that's the whole point.
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: And so if you can go with a second, these
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: guys are really like pumping and hitting their instruments, and
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: yes they are. That's because they're a great band, and
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: that's what you want to hear. Yes, that's the exciting bit.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: And I was really lucky because the first thing I
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: did really was the Love Project. And I'm good at
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: if I'm good at one thing, I'm good at combining
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: things in my head, like in that sort of process.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: But this, this will work with this, and the Love
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: Shows kind of starts with the drum solo from the
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: end she goes into get Back. It's like there's his drums,
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: the drums, ringos drums. So it goes in the end
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: to get back and there's a string crescendo, and I
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: knew in my head this was to work. But then
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: I did what people would do, right, I put a
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: grid out and so there's like one twenty two point
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: five bpm and it had like and really that was
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: the first year and it sounded terrible. It's like Ringo
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: was in time and he never and Ringo is a
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: great drummer, but he should never be put No, it's
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: his feel. Is that the thing? That's the thing In
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: the same way that people go, you know, did you
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: ever chin the vocals or I was like no, no,
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: not not fair. It's not not for any moral standpoint,
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: just the fact it's not going to sound as good. Yeah,
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: it's not going to be as good. It's not gonna
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: it's not going to be it'll be less believable. Yeah. Yeah.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: And there's things like, you know, when I did Let
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: It Be and when we did the Get Back, I
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: mixt let it be. And there's the thing on the
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: piano as a mistake on the piano I heard for
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: the first time, it's like great. I mean, if it's
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: been there, you know, that's that's that's a human playing
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: the piano. Yeah. You know, have you ever DJed, because
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: what you're describing in knowing what works with what, that's
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: really what it DJ does does. I've always thought about it.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: It's fun. Yeah, it's that and it's and I was
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: in a place the other then that's a great djai.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: I was thinking the ability to. I just think my
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: brain works fast enough. Have you seen Aba Voyage? No
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: oh worth seeing because it's truly like time traveling. Yeah yeah,
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: I mean they come out on stage and it's nineteen
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: seventy nine minutes ago. It's surreal. Yeah, a few minutes
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: ago and see it. I just haven't haven't gone to
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: see it yet. I kind of like it's funny. It's that.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: And obviously because the Beatles, like I asked about this
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: kind of stuff all the time. I think we can't
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: cheat time, but we can travel time. Yeah, you know
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: what I mean. Yeah, you can visit and anything anything
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: makes anythink anyone like you got Aba Voyage and if
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: it makes you feel elated and you're there with them,
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: that anything makes people feel stuff is great. But you
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: know what I mean, that doesn't harm you. No, no, no,
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: it's fun. Yeah, it's fun. Yes, I I don't think
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: it's sacrilegious at all. No, no, no. And also what
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: we can be the most people sort of have pretentious
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: views in this People aren't people that on there there
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: are preservations of discovery and learning doing what I mean
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: by that, it's like it's like, you know, my kids
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: listen to music in a complete different way that I did.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: I have two teenage daughters and they'll go, hey, have
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: you heard this band? They're really good. They're called Fleetwood
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: Mac And you go, yeah, I have. How can you've
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: heard of them? Think well, and you don't want to
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: kind of say because they've been around. Yeah, but it's
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: like that's great, that's great. You know, it's like yes,
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: you know. I remember my daughter saying listen to the
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: chain and like going this this, you know, the breakdown,
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: the baseline, the base section. This should be used for
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: television programs like this was used for the beginning of
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: Grand Prix in Britain formul one. But all of my
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: life that was and it's that you just go. And
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: it's the same way if the Revolver comes on, you know.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: I remember we listened to Liverya Rodriguez. I mean, that's
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: a good album, and then we're listening to Arctic Monkeys
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: and then Yes Yesterday comes on in the car and
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: I go Yesterday and my daughter guess it's a good song, Dad,
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: and you go, yeah, it is. It's timeless. That's the point. Yeah.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: I can remember when I was a little kid going
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: to the record store at that time, I was only
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: buying seven inch singles. There were albums obviously in the store,
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: but I was buying songs. So all of the things
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: that I were buying were things that I heard on
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: the radio, and they were just like they were the
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: songs of the moment. Yeah, And I didn't really understand
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: what all the other records were. And I remember I
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: heard a Chuck Berry song on the radio, and then
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: I went to the store and I got the chuck
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: Berry single and I went to the front and I said,
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: as Chuck Berry made an album yet, yeah, And they
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: walked me over to this section and chuck Berry had
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: fifty albums. I was like, that was my first experience, like,
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: oh oh so this it's not only just the single now,
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: but that's the thing. It's like, but that's you know,
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: it's great. It's great, like even now discovering new stuff
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: or I love when someone puts on music yeah, opposed
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: to be being freed from it or then you go
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: what's this yeah, and just being open. So it's best. Yeah,
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: it's the best thing. It's like, I want is this?
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: This is great? Yeah. I also I get mixed up
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: between records that I've worked on and not worked on
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: just because I listened to so much most of them.
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: Usually yes, but sometimes I'll be somewhere and I'll hear
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: something it's like, wow, where do we make this? And
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: then I'm listen thinking it's like and then I'm listening
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: closer and it's like, no, no, that's Led Zeppelin. I
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: wasn't there. It's like, it's so weird. And then the
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: other side, I was at this hi fi convention. I
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: heard the song that was incredible and I had no
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: idea what it was and I she zammed it and
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: it was something that I produced and just completely blocked
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: it out. Yeah, or you get I get told about
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: something I've done. Yeah, I don't, well go oh, you know,
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: you know when you're just like, I don't know, but
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: you don't. You just move on. You make stuff and
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: you move on, and exactly, there's a big volume of
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: stuff going by. Yeah, it's it's just it's just a fact.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: Just to be in work is nice. I mean, you know,
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: there's the thing you can't forget that. Yeah, thank you
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: so much for doing this. Thank you, Rick A pleasure.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: I hope it was okay with you were fantastic. Yeah,
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: it was fantastic and I look forward to us doing
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: this again whenever where, whenever the stars listen, listen, I
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: will be happy to talk to you, recorded or not recorded,
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: Actually the same thing for you. Now. It's might tend
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: to ask you questions I would love to do. We'll
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: do that. Thanks again to Giles Martin for sharing some
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: stories and the process behind remixing the Beatles Revolver. You
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: can hear that new Revolver mix along with other songs
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: he's produced at broken Record podcast dot com. You can
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: Broken Record Podcast, where you can find all of our
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: new episodes. You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: Broken Record is produced with helpful Lea Rose, Jason Gambrel, Ventaladay,
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: and Eric Sammon. Our editor is Sophie Crane. Broken Record
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: and uninterrupted ad free listening for four ninety nine a month.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and if
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: you like the show, please remember to share rate and
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: review us on your podcast. App Our theme musics by
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: Kenny Beats, Justin Rishmin,