Latest / Bookies' Favourite / The Benefactors by Wendy Erskine | Review | Waterstones Irish Book of the Year 2025

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The Benefactors by Wendy Erskine | Review | Waterstones Irish Book of the Year 2025 · Bookies' Favourite

0:10
Hello and welcome to a special bonus episode, a surprise bonus
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episode of Rookie's Favorite. Unfortunately, this week Aaron,
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Colin and Hannah will not be joining me in this episode, but
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very fortunately for me, I am joined with Stacey from
0:27
Apartment. What Stacey?
0:28
Read next and today we are going to discuss the fabulous debut
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novel by Wendy Erskine, The Benefactors.
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This was out in the last month I think.
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So we're it's. Highly topical.
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And we're going to discuss it today and I'm just going to
0:44
introduce you to Stacey. So she's written a fantastic
0:47
review about the benefactors on her Instagram.
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And I read it last week and I thought I would love to have a
0:54
conversation with her. And there's a lot of things that
0:56
she brought up in her Instagram post and I wanted to kind of
1:00
pick her brains about it. She thankfully agreed to speak
1:03
with me about it today. So this is very exciting.
1:06
So, Stacey, how are you? Lucy, thanks for having me on.
1:10
I'm good. I'm so excited to talk about
1:13
this book and I just wanted to introduce you.
1:15
So you have an Instagram. It's called at what Stacy read
1:18
next, and it is actually brilliant.
1:20
So I would highly recommend people have a look at that
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Instagram because you've got some really good reviews and I
1:26
think you always read really good books and you have such
1:28
good recommendations and things. What got you started into to the
1:32
the Instagram stuff the for books?
1:35
Thank you very much. I'm glad that you've been a
1:37
follower and that you've been enjoying the, the post that I've
1:40
been putting out there. I started the Instagram about 18
1:44
months ago now, but I've been a reader for much, much longer
1:48
than that. I've always enjoyed reading good
1:52
literature from basically school and I did a little bit of
1:56
English literature at uni and I've just kept up my, my reading
2:00
ever since then. And then probably about three or
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four years ago, I became even more intense about my reading
2:07
and started reading a lot of books every year and focusing on
2:11
book prizes, which is one of the reasons why I think podcast is
2:14
great and like really great contemporary literary fiction
2:19
had been published. And that's also how it came
2:22
across Wendy Erskine. Actually, I was in a Waterstones
2:26
in Belfast and for the weekend and I wanted to get a souvenir
2:30
and for me a souvenir is always a book, right?
2:32
Our first short story collection, Sweet Home.
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I took it up to the till all proud of myself and the the
2:38
bookseller told me that Wendy actually in that Waterstones
2:41
Cafe quite a lot and does the writing and he told me then that
2:45
she was working on a novel. So I've been excited about this
2:48
novel ever since I first discovered Wendy or Skin and
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that We Waterstones in Belfast. That's so nice.
2:55
I love that Waterstones. I feel like that has recommended
2:58
me so many books in the past. Like all my favorite books.
3:01
I feel like they you when they write like little suggestions
3:04
about books and stuff. I always think, yeah.
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But yeah, like when Wendy Erskine, actually, I I'd heard
3:12
of her short stories, but for some reason I'd never, I'd never
3:15
thought to actually like buy a copy of them.
3:18
And it wasn't until recently that I'd kind of was researching
3:22
books that were Booker like contenders for this next year
3:28
coming that I'd read that she'd got.
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She was releasing a Debbie novel and I found out she was going to
3:36
the Belfast Book Festival. And I was like, I should
3:38
probably like try and read some of her short stories and go and
3:42
see her speak about it. So then I started reading some
3:45
short stories from Dance move and I haven't read them all.
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I've just been kind of I don't like to read short story books
3:51
just from start to finish. I like to kind of gives them a
3:54
bit of time, you know, to to think about them.
3:57
And I was I've really enjoying her short story.
3:59
Still haven't finished it yet. Sorry, Wendy.
4:01
And then I got a copy of the benefactors when I went to the
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Belfast Book Festival and started reading that.
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And I thought this is actually really, really good.
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And I think being from Belfast and being being local to the
4:14
area, you can be a wee bit judgmental of books that it come
4:18
from like your hometown and you can be really critical.
4:20
But I think it was really, really good.
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Really like up there with like Milkman and some of the other
4:25
classic kind of Belfast literature.
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That's kind of how I I came to to want to read the Benefactors.
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And yeah, I know it's a really brilliant book.
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And Wendy Erskine, like listening to her speak about it
4:37
was, I thought I haven't been to many book events in my life, but
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that was really, really good. I really enjoyed her to the
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conversation with them. Lucy Caldwell about the book and
4:45
it was it was really fascinating.
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I have one warning before we proceed with this this
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discussion and that is that the book deals with sexual assault.
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If you have any issues with that I would advise giving the
4:58
podcast a bit of a mess. So for a rough synopsis of this
5:03
book, Frankie, Miriam and Brona are all mothers from a well to
5:06
do Belfast suburb and their sons Chris, Rami and Linus or he's
5:11
also known as a line up are during the course of the book
5:15
arrested for the sexual assault of their friend Misty.
5:19
Misty and her family Boogie, her stepfather and her main parental
5:23
figure, her sister Geneva, her born again and quite foil
5:28
mouthed step grandmother Nan D and occasionally her mother who
5:32
lives in Scotland but comes into the narrative at a few points.
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Misty is far from the perfect victim and that's in inverted
5:41
commas and she knows how she'll look in the eyes of the public
5:45
just in regards to this sexual assault.
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So and yeah, it's a, it's a very interesting take on, on sexual
5:51
assault, but we will, we'll dive into that later.
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And aside from the main story, we, we will hear an almost like
5:58
Greek chorus of Belfast community voices.
6:01
And those are short pieces of kind of local perspectives.
6:05
Some of them are like relevant to the story.
6:08
So there's police officers and cleaners and things that that
6:11
actually are involved in the plot.
6:13
And some don't seem like they're involved in the plot at all.
6:16
Maybe they are and I'm just missing something.
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But I'm pretty sure that they aren't.
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And they can be just a couple of lines, some of them and some of
6:22
them are two or three pages. But they're very interesting and
6:25
I would like to hear what Stacy thinks of them.
6:28
One of the main things that I think we should maybe discuss
6:30
first is the cast of characters. They're an absolute gold mine.
6:35
There's almost two sides to the to to the book.
6:40
There's like characters on one side on Misty side and then
6:42
there's characters on the boys sides and it's kind of how they
6:46
interact with each other and it's kind of, it is really
6:50
interesting. And so Stacey, I'm going to ask
6:52
you a big question. Who's your favorite character?
6:55
Do you even have one? I think Boogie's my favorite
6:58
character. Oh, really?
7:00
Yeah. I think he's so understated and
7:04
I remember the chapter when he was introduced and he just
7:08
seemed like such a good guy and you were kind of trying to
7:12
figure out what his story was from the beginning.
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And I'd probably say with all the characters, this for me,
7:21
this book is about the characters more so than the plot
7:25
and the things that that happen. So it's easy to love them and to
7:31
hate them, I think. But I, I really loved Boogie.
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I thought he was just such a good guy throughout.
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And the more I got to know about him, the more I thought that he
7:42
was a character that I could really admire.
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And he's maybe not the kind of person that, if you hadn't was
7:48
your taxi driver from the airport, maybe you wouldn't have
7:51
the same degree of admiration for him as as you get from from
7:55
reading his. Story, yes, definitely I yeah,
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he's such a he has a great character.
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He's the stepfather of Misty and he's he's like a taxi driver in
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Belfast, but he's also really young.
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I think a lot of this book as well is like who raises you is
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kind of a theme throughout it because a lot of the characters
8:14
aren't raised by, you know, your nuclear family.
8:18
Like there there's different versions of mothers and fathers
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throughout it through multiple characters.
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There's something I really enjoyed about how horrible
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Frankie is to various characters.
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She's this, she's a the stepmother of one of the boys
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who's accused and she's basically she's come from London
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and she had a difficult childhood and she's not really
8:41
equipped to be raising two teenagers at all.
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And her her stepdaughter Nina is she's very harsh on her.
8:53
Like Nina seems like she wants to have this like mother figure
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that's and she always like Nina seems to like say things that
9:01
she thinks adults will want to hear and Frankie is just not
9:05
responding to them the way a normal adult would.
9:08
She's actually like there are some of the funnier bits of the
9:11
book. She's really harsh on this
9:12
child. Yeah, I find their relationship
9:15
really interesting because obviously Nina had lost her
9:18
mother and her mother and her mother passed away.
9:22
And so then her mother was replaced by this young English
9:27
woman who didn't really want teenage children, really, did
9:31
she? No So.
9:33
So it's interesting to look at it from Nina's point of view as
9:36
well. Because she's the first kind of
9:38
point of view character that you meet.
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I kind of was thinking, right, OK, so she's a trophy wife, you
9:44
know, who's having to deal with these children that she doesn't
9:46
really want. And she came from a bad
9:48
background. I thought I knew where the
9:50
character was going and I thought I knew what the
9:51
character was going to do. And then I think that Wendy very
9:54
much, she made her this like 3 dimensional character, even
9:57
though in my head I was already kind of writing her off as like
10:01
a trope. But I, I, I think that all the
10:04
characters feel really real as people, which is, yeah, an
10:09
incredibly difficult thing to do as a writer, I imagine.
10:12
I'm not a writer, but. So with Frankie, your least
10:14
favorite character then, would you say no?
10:17
No no because I don't like Brona.
10:19
Frankie at least is honest. Brona is one of the mothers for
10:26
she's lineup line UPS mother so his name is Linus which is a
10:30
ridiculous name. Yeah, Brona for me was a massive
10:34
hypocrite and the whole way through I was really hoping that
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she would recognize that in herself because she seems like
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the kind of character who should be quite self aware and
10:44
enlightened given the work that she does with children and
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children from deprived backgrounds.
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She's the one, out of the three mothers that you would really
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expect to be the most empathetic to Misty and what happened?
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Also, there's something about her that I think she's quite a
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tragic character because she seems quite desperate for like
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belonging. And that made me really sad
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because like there's a there's a couple of scenes where it's like
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she's she's on an airplane and she like makes friends with this
11:16
guy who does not seem like he wants to make conversation with
11:19
her. She has this interaction with
11:20
this guy in the airplane. And then throughout the rest of
11:22
the book, she's like remembering back to this interaction she had
11:25
with this guy in the airplane. She's like, I wonder what can't
11:28
remember his name. I'm going to say his name is
11:29
like Stephen or something. She's like, I wonder what
11:31
Stephen thought about this. And you're kind.
11:34
Of like. This man is probably not
11:36
thinking about you, but you. There's a real tragedy in that
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the mothers are really interesting and their
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relationships with their sons are probably some of the some of
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the best. And I suppose they're the more
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like nuclear families, those ones, they're the more like
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standard. Whereas Misty's family is
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opposite from nuclear. She's, yeah, she's raised by her
12:01
stepfather and her mum has kind of abandoned her with her
12:05
stepfather and then gone off to Scotland and she's she's, she's
12:09
abandoned with her and her, her half sister.
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Her half sister is Boogies biological daughter, 7 year old
12:16
Misty is kind of dropped on his doorstep with like a Geneva
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who's a couple of years old and it's kind of like right.
12:23
That's you know, boogie, this is your life you're you're now
12:26
raising two daughters. The whole idea of like a perfect
12:29
victim is, is kind of done in this.
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And and although that is kind of often a theme in a lot of like
12:35
sexual assault based stories, I think it's really, really well
12:39
done in this one. Like because I don't know about
12:44
you, but there there's a whole plot in it about the fact that
12:47
missy's really into makeup and she is like painting bruises,
12:52
which I've seen people do like, but she paints like bruises on
12:55
herself. And a whole big thing that that
12:58
Brona mainly and some of the other mothers kind of pick up on
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is like she's been painting bruises and injuries on herself.
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So how, how could she be bruised or injured?
13:09
It's kind of sad because she explains to the woman that the
13:12
woman who's seeing her in the hospital, she's like, oh, no,
13:14
this is a real bruise. This isn't.
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And it's kind of obvious to know if you're a healthcare
13:18
professional, which one's real and which one isn't.
13:21
And she's not lying at any point.
13:23
But the minute that's introduced, you're like, her
13:26
case is not going to go well. What did you think about the the
13:31
whole that kind of element? I, I feel like there is no
13:36
perfect character in this book anyway, but obviously Misty is
13:41
our our central, our central character.
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And so she comes under so much scrutiny from all the mothers
13:51
and some of the other characters in the story as well.
13:56
I think one of the most interesting things about her
13:59
experience was what she was doing on the website, the
14:02
benefactors, and that whole concept of basically selling
14:08
herself in a kind of only fan style platform that represented
14:14
like the contrast of Misty's character.
14:16
So on one hand, she's actually a very sensitive, creative,
14:20
talented person and on the other hand there is an element of sort
14:24
of desperation. And I think she potentially in
14:28
some ways did appreciate the attention.
14:32
Maybe for me, that kind of led me to think about, you know,
14:36
what is she missing in her day-to-day life that she's
14:38
seeking out? I think something they brought
14:40
up there is just the idea of like there's something missing
14:42
in her life, like her life. Mike, the guy that she's
14:44
speaking to from America, it's like there's something missing
14:46
in his life. And it's kind of like
14:48
acceptable, not acceptable necessarily, but it's like he's
14:51
missing something in his life. So he's going to do this.
14:54
He's going to chat to a random girl from Belfast, whereas it's
14:57
like we don't think, oh, there's something missing from her life.
15:01
So she's going to it's always about money and it's always
15:04
about sexuality. It's always about, it's never
15:06
about actually, you know, she's obvious.
15:10
There's obviously something she's lacking and she's
15:11
enjoying, not not enjoying per SE, but like she's she is
15:15
probably enjoying having these conversations with Mike and is
15:17
enjoying this side of things. But it's immediately like it's
15:20
such a character flaw for her to to have done this.
15:24
Both of these people are have something missing and they want
15:28
to address that. But for one of these people,
15:31
it's a career ending life, you know, because people in her work
15:36
find out about it and they're like, they're like, are you on
15:38
benefactors? Are you on this this site?
15:40
And even the name of it, I thought the name was so on the
15:43
nose. The benefactor is such a.
15:47
It's so accurate, all that. The the way that people in
15:51
Belfast have shortened it to Benny's or the dead on the end
15:54
is also absolutely on the nose. I think.
15:58
The benefactors is as a name, I'm giving you money so that you
16:04
can live your life almost like an allowance, you know?
16:07
And there's the power balance there is completely different.
16:10
With only Fans, the power balance really is with the
16:12
creator, whereas with the benefactors of the name, the
16:16
power is with the people who are spending the money.
16:19
She describes the logo and it's like a fancy person with the top
16:22
hat and I I think class is such an important part of this.
16:26
She's more working class and the, the, the boys are middle to
16:31
upper middle class, possibly upper class, and they have a
16:34
very different lifestyle than her.
16:36
And she's, she seems, and this is the really, I think one of
16:39
the saddest parts is that she's definitely not because they are
16:41
her friends. We'll line up and Chris are her
16:43
friends. Well, she thinks they're her
16:45
friends, but they treat her really badly throughout the
16:48
book, like because she's not from their class and they call
16:52
her like DLA and all those kind of things, but it's like free
16:55
school meals and that kind of thing.
16:56
And she's she's kind of annoyed about it because she doesn't get
16:59
free school meals. But there's this kind of
17:02
dismissal of her. And I imagine at that age,
17:04
having these people in your life dismiss you like this.
17:07
And I think this is probably what makes her want to go on
17:09
benefactors because it seems like a kind of upmarket version
17:12
of like a sugar daddy situation where it's kind of marketed as
17:16
maybe better than what it is. It's, I think it's probably a
17:19
combination of her being someone more working class background
17:23
and also the fact that she's a woman, right?
17:26
And these are three boys. Gandup against her as well.
17:32
I think there's two things are at play there.
17:34
I did find it interesting that Missy didn't seem to have any
17:37
other friends, that the focus was on these, this group.
17:40
I know there were a few other characters as well and this kind
17:42
of wider grips that were going to parties and things like that
17:45
and how she tried to present herself constantly as kind of
17:49
useful or fun around them. Like saying the word, but like
17:52
she's branded it as being, I'd say slightly, slightly sluttier
17:56
than the other girls. And it's, it's, it's not her.
18:00
You can see how she's got herself into this situation and
18:03
she can't really backtrack. There is no such thing as
18:06
perfect victim, but there will always be people who will try
18:09
and look for flaws in the victim to try and excuse the behaviour
18:16
of the perpetrators. So I think it's really
18:20
interesting how much we've even talked about Misty and about
18:23
some of the things that other characters have picked up on,
18:26
but we haven't really talked at all about the three boys and who
18:31
they are and what they're like. And one thing that I noticed is
18:35
you actually like, you do know a fair bit about them, but you
18:38
know much less about them than you know about about Misty.
18:43
And I think that's probably the right balance.
18:46
But it is interesting that, you know, they're not picked apart
18:50
as monsters really. I think, I think maybe line up
18:53
is a little bit I would say like Chris and Rami just totally fade
18:58
into the background a lot of the time.
19:00
Something I thought was kind of interesting on on that line is
19:04
so Rami is Miriam's son and he's kind of not in the grip.
19:09
He's maybe slightly he's he's a bit nerdier and he's he's not
19:12
got as many friends, but he takes like an active role in in
19:16
the sexual assault and he's actually the character that we
19:18
find out most, the most harrowing details about the
19:22
sexual assault, which which isn't there's never it's never
19:28
explained fully. It's like, but there's one quite
19:31
harrowing scene where Rami speaks to his mother Miriam
19:35
about his role after he's been arrested in the events that took
19:39
place. He obviously doesn't believe
19:41
he's sexually assaulted someone. He believed it.
19:43
And this is where the whole kind of consent issue comes up.
19:47
Because I think from reading it, I, I would be like, I don't, I
19:50
don't think she's consented to this.
19:51
But I suppose from the boys perspectives, they and from the
19:55
boy's mother's perspectives, they believe differently from
19:58
this. But he goes into and into detail
20:02
with his mom about his role in it.
20:05
And it's quite. Hard to read, but he's the, he's
20:09
the one that you kind of feel most sorry for at the start,
20:12
Like he's the one that you like most.
20:14
But then when you read about what he's done, it's like, that
20:17
was an awful thing to to to do to another human being.
20:21
I think it was interesting that it's like this character that we
20:23
actually have a bit of more empathy for is the one that
20:27
we're going to go into more detail about.
20:29
Exactly what he did. I felt like of the three boys,
20:33
Lineup was definitely the one that was in charge.
20:36
Is it because of his very wealthy position in life?
20:39
I think he is probably the best of Lineup family or the one with
20:44
the kind of the class heritage and the money.
20:46
Does he have a sense of entitlement that's been passed
20:50
down through the generations maybe?
20:51
And is that why he acted in the way he did?
20:55
You definitely get that feeling because Brona and Donald here
20:58
are his parents. Brona seems to have no real
21:00
introspection on why line UPS done what he's done.
21:04
But Donald, his father seems to be like, you know, I wasn't
21:08
getting up to all this stuff when I was 16 or 18I, you know,
21:12
I had a steady girlfriend and I treated her with respect.
21:15
And Brona doesn't even want to listen.
21:17
But I did feel like Donald didn't really like his son that
21:21
much and was absolutely disgusted by by what he'd done.
21:27
And that definitely came in when they were discussing how they
21:30
were going to solve the problem in inverted commas.
21:33
There's there's like a a scene where Nandi is like, we're not
21:39
going to get anything from this. What what we need to get
21:42
something from this because a wrong has happened.
21:45
And in order to correct this wrong, we need like reparations.
21:49
And she wants 15,000 from the boy's families.
21:53
And this is where I think this became a book that really made
21:57
me think because I think if I'd have heard that on the news, I
22:02
would have been like what money grabbers like because it
22:05
wouldn't have been portrayed from their perspective.
22:08
If it was on a news story, you would just read family of
22:13
alleged sexual assault victim who's on all these sites and
22:18
does has all these perceived character flaws has asked for 15
22:24
grand from these boys. You you would definitely start
22:29
to doubt their story that this is where I think I where I was
22:33
like this is my bias in this. I would be like, why have they
22:36
done this right? But reading it from that
22:38
perspective did really make me think, well no, they know
22:42
they're not going to get a legal answer for this, so why not?
22:47
My big actual flaw with that is why was it not more money?
22:51
To me, this whole book is about the perspectives of a wide
22:56
variety of people on the same set of events.
23:00
So and that you've described there how Nandy sort of said
23:04
there needs to be reparations. And then we also get a look at
23:08
what Boogie thinks about that and Misty doesn't, it doesn't
23:12
ever really feel like she really makes a decision.
23:14
Like I'm sure the parents were thrilled that they were only out
23:18
£15,000. Like you say, why wasn't it more
23:21
money? Whereas to Nandy and the family,
23:25
that was a lot of money. So again, that's all about
23:29
perspective for Messy, who was impacted by this.
23:32
He's the one that needs some kind of resolution.
23:35
And for a lot of women who've experienced sexual assault,
23:38
getting a conviction is not on impossible.
23:40
You know, you can just look at the stats on the number of of
23:45
cases that even get to court and then the ones that that are
23:48
successful. And even even if the events have
23:52
happened in these situations, when it comes down to the
23:55
question of often consent, it can be hard to establish in in
23:59
the legal system. So maybe this resolution was the
24:04
way that Misty was able to to move on with her life.
24:07
Possibly. Also something that we haven't
24:09
really discussed is that they drop the money, the, the mothers
24:12
drop the money off outside a large church in Belfast that
24:16
Nandi goes to. And something I really loved
24:19
about it was because you think of it as like a, oh, they're
24:23
paying money to cover up their, their son sexuals.
24:26
It, it, it feels, I think, and again, I've said this a few
24:29
times, like I would have kind of previously thought of this is
24:32
really a dirty way of doing something.
24:34
Like it's really not clean. It's really not.
24:37
But they do it outside of church.
24:38
And I think it's like Nandy's way of saying this is a
24:40
legitimate thing has happened. We're wronging or right, we're
24:44
righting or wrong. And I'm not going to be hiding
24:46
behind something. I'm not going to do this in a
24:48
dodgy car park somewhere. I'm not going to.
24:50
I'm going to go to a church that I go to.
24:53
I loved this aspect of the benefactors because I always
24:58
have a lot to say about religion.
25:00
I won't go into too much here, but I think but but I think the
25:04
fact that something like that could happen in a church car
25:10
park on a Sunday morning just before Sunday service was
25:14
absolute poetry from my perspective.
25:18
You know, I think a lot of churches and religions like
25:22
really preach forgiveness and I feel like, is that what the
25:25
mothers thought they were getting for their boys standing
25:28
in that car park? Whereas like you say, did Nandy
25:30
feel like she was getting justice, which is another
25:33
another topic that you'll read about a lot in the Bible, for
25:37
example? I just thought, like, again,
25:39
coming back to that point around perspectives, I think those two
25:42
groups of people thought they were getting something different
25:45
out of that symbolism. The perspectives, as as you've
25:49
said before, are definitely like the most interesting idea of
25:52
this is like the same thing is happening to multiple people,
25:55
but everybody's kind of taking it completely differently and
25:58
and everyone's coming to it from such a different angle.
26:01
In your review, you discussed character names.
26:04
And yeah, I want to pick your friends about this because I'm
26:07
so interested. I feel like we need to get Wendy
26:09
or Skin on the podcast and get her to tell us why she chose all
26:13
the names that she chose because to.
26:15
Join us, Wendy. Yes, you're very welcome, Wendy.
26:18
We'd love to have you. It's not my podcast, but we
26:21
would love to have you and we would.
26:23
Messy is not a a normal name that you would really hear in
26:27
Northern Ireland. It's a very like American kind
26:29
of name really, isn't it? Yeah.
26:31
And, and it just got reading her name over and over and over
26:34
again just got me thinking, like, what is Misty?
26:36
Like it's something that's a bit blurry.
26:38
It's something that's quite hard to define.
26:41
And I sort of thought that represented her as a character
26:44
really, really well. And then I find, like, her
26:48
sister being called Geneva. It was just like Switzerland.
26:52
We're neutral, we're sensible. I would, I could be reading too
26:56
much into this, but that's definitely like what I took from
26:59
it. So.
26:59
Funny, when I read that you'd said that I was thinking the
27:02
exact same thing. I was like Geneva is such a
27:05
weird no but like that Missy and Geneva are not Belfast names and
27:09
they're not Belfast names for like different reasons.
27:11
Even like Boogie is the name, it does not really align with his
27:15
character at all. So I'm curious about sort of.
27:18
Yeah, I know. Yeah.
27:20
He was called that. What else was there line up I
27:24
thought was an interesting nickname.
27:26
There's a lot of things I think you can probably read into that.
27:29
Linus is such a posh name. I I think you've been more fun
27:32
of so much in Belfast for being called Linus.
27:35
I'm not great with different perspective books.
27:37
So when it's chops and changes, I think this is probably one of
27:42
the best ones I've read with that because I think you always
27:46
end up going, Oh, I'm not that into that character or I'm not
27:49
that this is I'm just going to kind of zoom out for a couple of
27:53
pages because I'm not this character is very boring, but
27:56
not you want to know more about each character and each
28:01
character is going through something different or they're
28:03
going through the same things in very different ways.
28:05
And it's like you're always ever there was no character where I
28:08
was like, Oh, I'm have to listen to her for like 10 pages.
28:12
I want to know what were your thoughts on the like I keep
28:15
calling it a Greek chorus, but the vignettes like the little
28:18
pieces of the the story from told from the community.
28:21
Like what? What did you what did you think
28:23
about them? So I wasn't sure how I would
28:27
feel about them going into the book, but just did Wendy and
28:30
you. I liked your short story, so I
28:32
was going to give it give them my all when it came to these
28:36
sections. And I think the way that they
28:39
are initially introduced really helps you as a reader get used
28:44
to them. So the first couple are quite
28:47
kind of random, a little bit easy going maybe.
28:52
So then once you've read the structure over like maybe the
28:55
first 20-30 pages, I felt like I was really used to it then.
29:00
So when the the slightly longer vignettes or the more complex
29:03
vignettes or the ones that maybe did link into the story in some
29:06
way came along, it wasn't as daring or it wasn't a surprise
29:10
for me. It just felt again, like feel
29:11
like the word effortless keeps popping up for me with this one.
29:14
My favorite though, then yeah, it's probably that one that I've
29:19
seen quoted everywhere. It's on page 17 in my book.
29:22
And it's the one that talks about, mate.
29:26
Let me tell you, I've got to the stage of life where if it's not
29:28
about love to some degree, then I don't want to know.
29:33
I think about that line all the time and I only finished a stick
29:37
a week ago and I've been thinking about it ever since.
29:40
I really, I like you wasn't expecting to like these as much
29:45
as I was liking them. And then you kind of, I feel
29:48
like you got into a bit of a groove with them and you're kind
29:50
of like, right, this is this. But and then she threw in
29:53
probably one of the most harrowing stories I've ever
29:57
read. One of them.
29:59
I can't. I don't want to give too much
30:01
away because it I was like, did I actually just read this?
30:06
It was. So it's like a really sad,
30:11
sickening, horrible story that is just thrown in that was.
30:16
It wasn't the fact that you and I haven't discussed that really.
30:20
And I know exactly what you're talking about.
30:22
So it obviously is a very powerful section.
30:26
It's a story about Mom who gave her child up for adoption and
30:32
what happens when she meets him as an adult.
30:36
And it does not go the way that you think it's going to go at
30:41
all in. The.
30:43
Worst possible way. I think the story in itself,
30:46
though, was kind of important because it was like it shows you
30:51
that you can be like geared up for this meet.
30:54
Like she's geared like she's so excited to meet her son and and
30:57
she thinks it's like, I don't think she thinks, oh, it's going
31:00
to be amazing and he's going to be lovely or anything like that.
31:01
But it's such a horrific thing that ends up happening to her
31:06
and you're and you're kind of like, well, you're kind of left
31:09
been like, well, wait, wait, wait, what we want like does
31:12
like this. It has no relevance that I can
31:15
think to the actual. Plot, that character could be
31:19
someone who was sat in the restaurant that Misty worked in,
31:23
you know. And so it's I think that's the
31:25
thing that the Danette really bringing to the story is the
31:29
community element to life in Belfast and probably life in any
31:33
city. Although I think probably there
31:35
is still an element of community in Belfast that doesn't quite
31:38
exist in other bigger cities. Like I live in Glasgow for
31:42
example and I'd say it's in pockets rather than in.
31:45
The. City as a whole.
31:50
So the Benefactors is a book set in Belfast, right?
31:52
And if you said that to anyone who doesn't live in Northern
31:55
Ireland, they would expect it to be a book about vectorianism in
31:58
some way. That that that's our legacy and
32:03
and that's where lots of stories are told now.
32:05
And I think it's brilliant that they are.
32:08
But this book is not about that at all.
32:10
Apart from there's 2 pages, 2 vignettes, one side of either
32:16
side of one page and that like reference, you know, like a
32:20
Rangers top and a O'Neill's top. And I thought that was just
32:23
really well done to look hint at it in the story and in the in
32:29
the experience, but not touching on it in any other way.
32:33
And I think that's where names are interesting too, right?
32:36
Because obviously you have certain names that might sound
32:40
like they're from certain difference.
32:43
For us as Northern Irish readers, we would probably pick
32:45
up on that. But I imagine if you were a
32:48
reader from anywhere else, why would you even think about that?
32:52
Too, I really was kind of like like thinking about my own bias
32:56
in, in, in Belfast because I was, I was like, I am totally
33:00
reading this going, are they Catholic?
33:02
Are they proud of them? And it's such a bad thing that I
33:04
do and that a lot of people do in Belfast.
33:08
But I was like a lot of them, you actually wouldn't.
33:09
You wouldn't have any clue it is.
33:11
Actually relevant to the story, like you don't need to know that
33:14
for this story, whereas a lot of other set in Belfast that you
33:17
really you kind of would sort of need to know that because it
33:21
would be key to the sectarian element of of the story.
33:26
So I thought that was really refreshing.
33:28
That's really well done in Milkman, the Anna Burns novel
33:33
that won the the Booker Prize is kind of it's very anonymous.
33:36
And so that's something that you've kind of brought up with
33:39
in your in your review of benefactors is the the anonymity
33:43
of the the characters and that kind of thing.
33:45
But, but Milkman, like none of the characters have names and
33:48
you're not. Yeah.
33:50
I mean, if you're from Belfast, you clearly know where it's at
33:53
and, and that kind of thing. And that's another thing with
33:54
this. It's like we were discussing
33:57
this before, but it's like you read places in the benefactors
34:00
and you're like, right, I know where exactly where that is.
34:01
I know she does. She does mention places that
34:04
definitely exist, like the Ulster Folk and transport
34:06
Museum, which she goes to with Frankie and Nina go to in an
34:11
interesting scene. It's like I, I wonder what it's
34:13
like for people who who are aren't reading it from Belfast.
34:17
I've. Spoken to a few people on
34:18
Instagram who's read an arch in Northern Ireland and they have
34:23
they probably have a slightly different perspective on it, but
34:26
they still really, really enjoyed it.
34:27
Like, I don't think you have to be from that fast or no Belfast
34:31
particularly well to get a whole lot of value from the story.
34:36
And, and I, I'm really proud that someone from Belfast has
34:40
created something that can travel as well as this.
34:43
And obviously speaking to to people who are from there and
34:47
can appreciate some of the references that maybe others
34:49
might not get. Look, I think this is a
34:51
universally brilliant novel. And if you're, if you're reading
34:55
it somewhere else in the world, you will still get the vast
35:00
majority of what we've got from it.
35:02
And so I think we can be very proud.
35:05
It's very Belfast, but it's also extremely relevant to anywhere
35:10
else in the world. And I think it's hard to being
35:13
from Belfast to like disentangle yourself.
35:15
But it's interesting reading other people's reviews and these
35:18
people are from from way different places and they're
35:20
like us is an amazing book and this is really great.
35:23
And that's it's so nice to hear. Anything else?
35:26
Success or the benefactors? We're going to talk about Booker
35:31
Pass. I really hope that it's in the
35:33
long list. I really want to say in the long
35:35
list and I think it has a good chance of being in the long
35:38
list. You said that.
35:40
Do you think that Booker nominated Book should be have
35:44
something to say and say it in a really interesting way or like a
35:48
really, I'm sorry, I'm paraphrasing something.
35:50
I don't know if. That's I love, I love being
35:52
quoted back to myself and agree and agreeing.
35:57
I think, I think the great Booker book has to be something
36:02
that has a big message and and tells it in an interesting or
36:08
different way. I think I'm struggling to think
36:10
about a winner from the last sort of 5-10 years and I'm I'm a
36:15
big Booker winner. I've read, I think over half of
36:19
the winners since it started. All the previous winners I can
36:22
think of, they speak about things that are kind of of their
36:25
time, right? So some that you read from like
36:27
the 80s and 90s, I'm sort of a bit like, oh, I don't really
36:30
know if the big message. There is a big message now, but
36:33
it wasn't the time. And the way that it's told is
36:38
what's interesting. And it doesn't always have to be
36:40
the writing style. Sometimes it can be the context
36:43
or the characters or something like that.
36:45
I will be outraged if the is not on the long list and the long
36:50
list is announced on my birthday.
36:51
So if it's not there and I might read on my birthday, we can't
36:55
have that. Have you any other ones that you
36:57
would like to see in the long list?
37:00
So I think there's some, I mean, every year there's amazing Irish
37:04
literature that can go on her long list.
37:06
And obviously we've had a series of Irish winners over the last
37:10
10 years as well. So thinking of specifically
37:13
Irish stuff that I've read in the last year that could be
37:16
eligible, Open Heaven by Shaun Hewitt is getting a lot of
37:20
attention and it is really beautiful.
37:23
So I wouldn't be surprised to see it on there.
37:26
And I think it deals with growing up and exploring your
37:31
sexuality and love in a really interesting way.
37:33
So I think that one could be on there.
37:35
One that I've not heard mentioned in relation to the
37:39
took her long list, but I would love, love, love to see is the
37:42
Boy from the Sea by Derek Carr. I don't know if he's from
37:45
Belfast, but he certainly teaches at Queen.
37:48
So that was an incredible novel. I thought set and Donegal really
37:53
scenic but also very tense characters were just so
37:59
interesting and that talked about kind of found family and
38:03
things, which fascinating to me. Those three I would love to see.
38:07
I'm sure there's another one by a female author that's totally
38:11
such a ride. Oh, Nesting by Rosin O'Donnell
38:14
has been talked about a bit. I think that was more of a
38:16
women's prize book. And that's not, that's not to
38:20
say to be kind of negative. I thought it was incredible.
38:25
I'm not sure it's bickery enough, but you could be right
38:29
and I'd love to see it there if it was.
38:31
We we were discussing this earlier in the week and I
38:33
actually I kind of agree with you because I I saw it on like
38:36
the number one in some list about Booker eligible books.
38:40
And I do agree with you when, when we're saying like what you
38:44
think makes a Booker prize. I I think the book is really
38:48
good. I think like it's a great read,
38:50
but I think it doesn't really do the second thing.
38:53
Again, there's no detraction from it as a book, but is it
38:56
bookery? It could be on the long list.
38:57
I doubt it would make more list or or to.
39:00
Win. It has a, it has a really
39:01
important message and that's for me.
39:04
That's the reason why everyone should read that.
39:07
Yeah, my number one is the benefactors.
39:10
If it's not. That's so good.
39:12
I'm, I'm in total agreement with you there.
39:14
I'm like, I will throw all my toys out of the prom.
39:17
I will cry. I'm, I'm totally with you on
39:20
the, the Irish front. I have bought so many books that
39:23
are Irish that are eligible for the Booker Prize and see if in a
39:27
month's time there's no Irish books on this.
39:29
Longest I will dream. We haven't said anything
39:34
critical about this book and normally and normally you guys
39:39
will find something. I know it's like I think that
39:44
she's she is lucky and that I'm the person reviewing her book
39:47
because I think if Aaron, Colin and Hannah were involved, they
39:51
would they would be tearing it to shreds because that is what
39:54
they do. I think this is a fantastic
39:57
book. I think it's so good.
39:59
One more thing before we go. We have our pool still open
40:03
until next Friday evening. And the books that are
40:07
available, and this will be the book that we will read and
40:09
discuss after we've read Glorious Exploits next week.
40:13
And the books that are available are The Safekeep by Yale van der
40:17
Wooden, Hounding by Xenobi Purvis, and Confessions by
40:23
Catherine Airy. So if you would like us to read
40:25
any of those books, vote in the poll for those books.
40:28
That would be ideal. And Stacey, I believe that you
40:31
have read one of these. Yes, I've read the safe keep
40:33
recently and I really enjoyed it, but do not let that
40:37
determine your vote because I don't want to be seen to be more
40:40
than drama amongst the. Bookies favorite.
40:43
It's actually the only one I've read as well.
40:44
And yeah, no, it's a good book. I think it'll be an interesting
40:47
one to chat about. We I think we can speak for both
40:49
of us when I say that we both really, really enjoyed this book
40:52
and thank you so much to Wendy for writing that.
40:54
That was it's absolutely excellent.
40:56
And I recommend that everyone goes and picks up a copy of the
40:59
benefactors by Wendy Erskin also, um, Wendy got in touch
41:03
there, um, not that long ago just to, to say that, uh, her,
41:07
her room is untidy in her hotel at the moment.
41:09
She's on a book her. So I hope that all goes really
41:12
well for you, Wendy, and I really hope you listen and, um,
41:15
you enjoy what we said and you can get in touch if everything
41:17
that we've said is incorrect. Thank you so much, Stacey for
41:21
being on the podcast side. That was really interesting.
41:23
I'm so glad that we could have this conversation.
41:25
Well, thanks Lucy, it's been lovely to meet you and it's been
41:27
even more lovely to talk about this amazing book and I'm sure
41:31
we'll have lots of reading discussions in future as well.
41:34
Where can we follow you on Instagram?
41:36
You can find me on Instagram at What's Stacey?
41:39
Read next for lots of great reviews of literary fiction.
41:44
Thank you everyone as well for joining us today.
41:46
And I know it was a bit different from the usual, but
41:49
hopefully everybody enjoyed it. And if you've just come first
41:53
for the first time, you can look through our we have a whole
41:56
series on all of the shortlists for the international Booker.
41:59
Also, just to say, we have an Instagram where you'll find our
42:02
poll and it's at Bookie's favorite Book club.
42:05
We also have Goodreads at Bookie's favorite book club
42:09
again. And so next week we should be
42:10
with you with a normal episode with glorious exploits by Ferdia
42:14
Lennon.