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COVID-19 & Travel Safety · The SHEA Podcast

0:08
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Rapid Response Podcast brought to you by Society of Healthcare Epidemiology of America, promoting the prevention of healthcare associated infections and antibiotic resistance in seeking to advance the field of healthcare epidemiology and antibiotic stewardship.
0:24
SPEAKER_01: I'm Wali Javed, hospital epidemiologist for Mount Sinai Downtown, and I'll serve as your moderator.
0:31
SPEAKER_01: Discussions on this podcast do not reflect Shay's perspective but facilitates communication of multiple perspectives and experiences as we go through this challenging time together.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: Shay is excited to launch this episode of the podcast COVID-19 updates what we know now.
0:48
SPEAKER_01: Today's discussion will focus on COVID-19 and travel safety.
0:52
SPEAKER_01: We're pleased to welcome Dr.
0:54
SPEAKER_01: Carlos Del Rio on our podcast today.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: Dr.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: Del Rio is a distinguished professor of medicine in the division of infectious disease at Emory University School of Medicine and professor of global health and epidemiology at Rowland School of Health.
1:10
SPEAKER_01: He's also Executive Associate Dean for Emory at GRADI TI and co-director of Emory Center of AIDS Research CFAR and co-PI for the Emory CDC HIV Clinical Trials Unit and the Emory Vaccine Treatment and Evaluation Unit.
1:28
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for joining us today.
1:30
SPEAKER_01: Before we start our discussion, I would like to turn it to Dr.
1:33
SPEAKER_01: Jennifer Hanrahan to get us started with a brief news and guidance update for the week.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: Globally, there have been almost 200 million confirmed cases of COVID-19, including 4,235,559 deaths as of August 3rd, 2021.
1:51
SPEAKER_00: There have been almost 4 billion vaccine doses administered as of August 3rd.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: In the United States, 165 million people have been fully vaccinated.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: An MMWR early release on July 30th describes an outbreak of SARS-CoV-2 infections, including COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough infections associated with large public gatherings in Barnestable County, Massachusetts, July 2021.
2:16
SPEAKER_00: During July 2021, 469 cases of COVID-19 associated with multiple summer events and large public gatherings in a town in Barnstable County, Massachusetts were identified among Massachusetts residents.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: Vaccination coverage among eligible Massachusetts residents was 69%.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: Approximately three-quarters of cases occurred in fully vaccinated persons.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: Genomic sequencing of specimens from 133 patients identified the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19 in 89%, and the Delta AY3 sublineage in 1%.
2:53
SPEAKER_00: Overall, 274 or 79% vaccinated patients with breakthrough infections were symptomatic.
3:01
SPEAKER_00: Among five COVID-19 patients who were hospitalized, four were fully vaccinated, no deaths were reported.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: Real-time reverse transcriptase, polymerase chain reaction, cycle threshold values in specimens from 127 vaccinated persons with breakthrough cases were similar to those from 84 persons who were unvaccinated, not fully vaccinated, or whose vaccination status was unknown.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: The delta variant of SARS-CoV-2 is highly transmissible.
3:26
SPEAKER_00: Vaccination is the most important strategy to prevent severe illness and death.
3:30
SPEAKER_00: On July 27th, CDC recommended that all persons, including those who are fully vaccinated, should wear masks in indoor public settings in areas where COVID-19 transmission is high or substantial.
3:41
SPEAKER_00: Findings from this investigation suggest that even jurisdictions without substantial or high COVID-19 transmission might consider expanding prevention strategies, including masking in indoor public settings regardless of vaccination status, given the potential risk for infection during attendance at large public gatherings that include travelers from many areas with differing levels of transmission.
4:01
SPEAKER_00: An article in JAMA on self-reported memory problems eight months after COVID-19 infection describes neurocognitive symptoms in people with post-acute sequelae of SARS-CoV-2.
4:13
SPEAKER_00: In this study, a cohort of 13,001 adults who were invited after having their clinical specimens analyzed for SARS-CoV-2 at four large accredited laboratories in Norway or being randomly selected from the Norwegian population were included.
4:28
SPEAKER_00: The main outcome was self-reported memory problems eight months after infection, and the exposure was SARS-CoV-2 status.
4:34
SPEAKER_00: In this study, SARS-CoV-2 positivity at baseline was strongly associated with reporting memory problems eight months after follow-up compared to the untested randomly selected group.
4:44
SPEAKER_00: At follow-up, 267 of 649 participants in the SARS-CoV-2 positive group reported a significant worsening of health compared with one year prior, and 81 of 651 participants in the SARS-CoV-2 positive group also reported problems concentrating.
4:59
SPEAKER_00: Additionally, 59 of 267 participants in the SARS-CoV-2 positive group who reported memory problems also reported worsening of health.
5:06
SPEAKER_00: This study examined the prevalence of self-reported memory problems in a large group of COVID-19 patients who were not hospitalized and had a relatively mild disease.
5:14
SPEAKER_00: Eight months after the positive test, the prevalence of memory problems in this group was higher than in the control group with a negative test or in the untested control population.
5:23
SPEAKER_00: Most of the SARS-CoV-2 positive participants with memory problems also reported a worsening of their health compared with one year prior.
5:30
SPEAKER_00: The authors conclude that the findings suggest that SARS-CoV-2 may negatively impact memory even eight months after having a mild case of the disease, and this can be associated with a worsening of health and post-acute sequality of COVID.
5:41
SPEAKER_00: The findings are a strong impetus to reconsider the notion that COVID-19 can be a mild disease.
5:46
SPEAKER_00: And that's the news for this week.
5:47
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Dr.
5:48
SPEAKER_01: Han Hen.
5:49
SPEAKER_01: I will now move into discussion with our speaker.
5:52
SPEAKER_01: So, Dr.
5:52
SPEAKER_01: Del Rio, on top of the roles you hold at Emory, you're also an infectious disease special advisor to Delta Airlines.
6:01
SPEAKER_01: So you clearly have specific expertise in travel, health safety, and precautions.
6:07
SPEAKER_01: Can you provide our listeners some background into what you do in the role and what other experiences you have with travel health safety?
6:16
SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Wale.
6:17
SPEAKER_02: I first want to thank you and Shay for inviting me to do this podcast with you.
6:21
SPEAKER_02: I think that talking about travel is really important.
6:24
SPEAKER_02: I must say that I got involved in this because I very early in the pandemic, I was talking to leaders here in Atlanta, both business and community leaders here in Atlanta.
6:34
SPEAKER_02: And one of those leaders was Ed Bastian, the CEO of Delta.
6:37
SPEAKER_02: So I established communication with Ed about what we can do.
6:41
SPEAKER_02: And I knew that travel was going to be an industry that was going to be impacted significantly early in the pandemic, you know, as soon as the WHO declared the pandemic an official outbreak on March 11th, shortly thereafter, many organizations canceled travel, airlines stopped.
6:56
SPEAKER_02: And really, you can see that the airlines were going to have a very tough time ahead.
7:00
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, talk to Ed Bastion and we said, airlines are about safety, right?
7:04
SPEAKER_02: The way you think about things about safety of your travelers and your employees, you do safety better than any airline.
7:10
SPEAKER_02: And in fact, those of us in healthcare look at you as a way to think how do we do safety better in healthcare?
7:15
SPEAKER_02: So let's talk about this as a safety issue, not as a health issue.
7:19
SPEAKER_02: And let's think about how we can ensure safety of your passengers and what kinds of things can we do to make travel safe.
7:26
SPEAKER_02: And you know, we quickly came with what I would say is a three-approach prevent, keep, and minimize, right?
7:32
SPEAKER_02: You want to prevent infected people from boarding a plane.
7:36
SPEAKER_02: And therefore you can do screenings.
7:38
SPEAKER_02: And as you can see in the airlines, including Delta, when you check in, there's there's a health screening that happens right there and then before you can able to check in.
7:46
SPEAKER_02: Number two, we can do testing.
7:47
SPEAKER_02: And I can tell you that I don't think we're doing as much testing as we should, but I'll tell you a little more about the testing programs that we've done in Delta.
7:55
SPEAKER_02: The second thing is you can keep the airplanes free of viruses, and you can do that through sanitation, you know, cleaning, disinfecting the cabin, but more importantly, by air filtering.
8:04
SPEAKER_02: And the third thing is you want to minimize transmission in the plane.
8:08
SPEAKER_02: And you do that by masking, and you also do that by decreasing the number of passengers that board the plane, and you do that by blocking the middle seat.
8:15
SPEAKER_02: So I think those were strategies early on that we implemented in order to try to continue to allow passengers to be safe.
8:23
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, Delta went out with masking at the clubs and the airplanes way before the FDA made a mandate and you know had had a significant cost because it was hard for flight attendants and others to enforce a masking that wasn't part of a federal mandate.
8:37
SPEAKER_02: Going forward, the other thing that Delta has done is, you know, really push vaccination on their employees, but also has partnered with the city and the state in creating a mass vaccination site.
8:47
SPEAKER_02: The Delta Museum has become a mass vaccination site and they're giving thousands of vaccines.
8:52
SPEAKER_02: So I think, again, there's a lot of things that can happen, not only as to make travel safe, but also to be citizens and leaders in the community.
9:00
SPEAKER_01: That's very helpful.
9:01
SPEAKER_01: So arguably, the most asked question, given the continued spread of Delta variant, is it safe to travel?
9:08
SPEAKER_01: Should people be taking the risk even if they are vaccinated?
9:12
SPEAKER_02: So I tell people that probably one of the safest places to be at is inside a plane, a US carrier like Delta, like American, et cetera, where you know you have masking, you have all these other things, the air ventilation.
9:25
SPEAKER_02: The problem with travel is not the plane or the train or the transportation you take.
9:29
SPEAKER_02: The problem with travel is what you do once you get to your destination and what kinds of things you do, right?
9:34
SPEAKER_02: Because you will be maybe at a hotel and that's not a problem.
9:37
SPEAKER_02: Hotels are doing a fairly good job, but you will have to, you know, get in the elevator and then go eat at a restaurant and you see friends and you go to a bar and you go out, and that's when you get infected.
9:47
SPEAKER_02: So the problem is not necessarily the travel, but the traveling that is a problem.
9:52
SPEAKER_02: And I would say that I continue to travel, you know, I limit a lot of my travel, but continue to travel.
9:57
SPEAKER_02: And I do three things to stay safe and still have not gotten infected, besides obviously getting vaccinated.
10:04
SPEAKER_02: I continue to mask all the way and frequently also use eye protection.
10:08
SPEAKER_02: I test 72 hours before I travel, and then I test four to five days after arrival, and both on the way there and on the way back.
10:16
SPEAKER_02: I think testing is a very important strategy to be sure that you are not infected when you travel or that you didn't pick an infection when you travel and then you bring it back home.
10:26
SPEAKER_02: And the third thing is limit the number of contacts that I do.
10:30
SPEAKER_02: So, for example, if I go visit a family member in Mexico City, you know, make sure that everybody there is also vaccinated and tested.
10:38
SPEAKER_02: And we don't go out to restaurants, you know, we try to stay indoors, try to not do other things, try to minimize the contact with others that could potentially increase the risk of transmission.
10:47
SPEAKER_02: I think those are the important things that I think everybody needs to do when you're thinking about traveling right now.
10:51
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Carlos.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: It's really, really helpful, especially in light of the delta variant circulating.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: If we, as healthcare professionals, are seeing a patient and they ask us about traveling, what should we be telling them about safety?
11:05
SPEAKER_01: And I know you have already discussed about using protective care.
11:08
SPEAKER_01: So doing advanced research of their destination and best practices that they can do, like what advice I should give to my patients.
11:16
SPEAKER_02: You know, I give them the same advice I give myself and I give my family, what I just said right now.
11:21
SPEAKER_02: Get tested 72 hours before you get on the plane, and then isolate yourself once you arrive to your destination for three to four days and get tested at day four or five.
11:30
SPEAKER_02: And then be cognizant of the importance of masking and eye protection, and then limit where you're gonna go, right?
11:35
SPEAKER_02: If you're gonna go to, let's say I'm traveling to Europe right now.
11:39
SPEAKER_02: You know, if you're gonna eat, eat outdoors or go to the market, get food and cook it indoors.
11:44
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you you know, you're not gonna be able to do a lot of the things that you would have liked to do as a tourist because you know, going to museums may be limited and other things, but you again need to be careful, and masking all the time continues to be really important.
11:55
SPEAKER_01: That's a really, really great point that the people we advise, they are solely responsible for taking the precautions.
12:02
SPEAKER_01: They also have to follow the recommendations, but they need to use protective care like masking, get themselves tested, and plan in advance.
12:08
SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
12:09
SPEAKER_01: So, what about those thinking about traveling with children under age of 12?
12:14
SPEAKER_01: Given that more children are impacted by Delta and there is not yet a vaccination for this age group, should healthcare professionals be telling families with children under 12 to think very carefully about traveling?
12:25
SPEAKER_02: Uh yes, you know, I think so.
12:27
SPEAKER_02: I think you you would still, I mean, if you need to do the trip, you can still do it, but you need to think about what are you going to be doing?
12:33
SPEAKER_02: What's the safest way to travel?
12:35
SPEAKER_02: Again, you know, thinking about masking and thinking about testing being critically part of what you need to do.
12:41
SPEAKER_02: But I see, you know, the summer vacation, people are taking trips and you can do it, but you need to be sure how to do it in a safe way.
12:47
SPEAKER_02: And how do you prevent maybe it's time to think about going to a national park or a place outdoors instead of going to a place that you're going to be mostly indoors?
12:54
SPEAKER_01: That's very helpful.
12:55
SPEAKER_01: Can you tell us about the data for transmission spread in airplanes, trains, and buses?
13:01
SPEAKER_01: What is the safest mode of travel?
13:03
SPEAKER_01: Very curious on this one.
13:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's, you know, there's several descriptions of outbreaks that have occurred and transmissions that have occurred in flights, many of those happening on long haul flights.
13:14
SPEAKER_02: And there's several things that we have learned about the earth circulation and about what happens.
13:19
SPEAKER_02: I think a really important thing is I tell people if at all possible do not take off your mask during travel.
13:26
SPEAKER_02: And I know that's really hard in a long flight.
13:28
SPEAKER_02: If you're in a long haul flight, you're going to have to eat, you're going to have to uncover and take your mask off at some point in time.
13:34
SPEAKER_02: Well, make sure when you do it, it's not at the same time that the person sitting right next to you is doing it.
13:39
SPEAKER_02: So, in other words, maybe staggered eating, in which you eat a certain point and the other person eats at another point.
13:44
SPEAKER_02: The earth circulation, I've learned a lot about air circulation inside cabins.
13:49
SPEAKER_02: And the earth circulation, the air filtering inside planes is really interesting.
13:52
SPEAKER_02: The exchange, you know, now it happens about 20 to 30 times per hour, and the air circulates from the top to the bottom, and then it goes up and then comes down again.
14:02
SPEAKER_02: And really the being forward-facing in a seat effectively creates a barrier.
14:06
SPEAKER_02: So, one of the things you want to be is be as forward possible.
14:10
SPEAKER_02: So I try to get either a bulkhead or a very, you know, somebody that nobody's sitting in front of me, because that will limit the air circulation that is happening.
14:19
SPEAKER_02: You also learn in outbreaks is how important it is that the people that are moving a lot, right?
14:24
SPEAKER_02: And people, somebody who's infected who may be going to the bathroom or moving up and down.
14:27
SPEAKER_02: And again, when somebody's coming by me in the aisle, be sure that I have my my mask and have my air here, you know, my goggles or facial or something in place when that happens.
14:37
SPEAKER_02: And that's why I tell people that to me the riskier point in air travel is not during the flight, but it's actually the boarding and deplaning when everybody stands up and everybody's against each other and there could be a lot more contact.
14:49
SPEAKER_02: So take patience and either sit at the front as much as possible so you can de-plane before everybody else, or wait for others to get off or do it in such a way that you're not in a crowded environment.
14:58
SPEAKER_02: Trains are very similar, but buses, trains and buses, the challenge that they have is they don't have the air circulation that planes have.
15:05
SPEAKER_02: But in buses or in cars like an Ubers, opening the window, and there's some nice studies showing how, at least in automobiles and cars, opening the rear-built window and the front passenger seat window creates an airflow that actually will be very important.
15:19
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, opening the window instead of having the air conditioner in an Uber or in a taxi will be important.
15:24
SPEAKER_01: Keeping the windows open in the taxis possibly would be helpful if the temperature allows.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
15:31
SPEAKER_01: I think what you spoke about the airplanes, it's it's pretty interesting about the airflow.
15:35
SPEAKER_01: I was wondering if they have any filtration.
15:37
SPEAKER_01: Do they have any level of filtration in airplanes?
15:40
SPEAKER_01: I've never heard about that.
15:41
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, they do.
15:42
SPEAKER_02: They actually have installed uh pretty significant air filters.
15:46
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, again, I'm not an expert in this area, but they call they have what's called the MERV 17 HEPA quality or greater filters.
15:53
SPEAKER_02: And they actually have very, you know, in the bottom of the plane where the luggage is, so below you, there is this unit, their air mixing unit.
16:01
SPEAKER_02: So the air collected in the cabin goes first into this air conditioning unit that has HIPAA filter, and then that air is then mixed with fresh air coming from the outside, and that fresh air coming from the outside is mixed with that filtered air in that air mixing unit and then pushed up to the top of the cabin and then it comes down.
16:18
SPEAKER_02: It basically comes down right next to where the luggage compartments are.
16:21
SPEAKER_02: So the safest place for you to be sitting is actually the window seat.
16:26
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'll remember that.
16:27
SPEAKER_01: So, Dr.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: Del Rio, a lot of people have been asking me about going on cruises, and my simple answer for the last one year and a half has been no.
16:36
SPEAKER_01: But what do you think?
16:37
SPEAKER_01: What is your advice?
16:38
SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, let me just start by saying for full disclosure that I have also been working as an advisor to Royal Caribbean cruises.
16:46
SPEAKER_02: So I've also gotten to learn a lot about cruise ships and transmission of pathogens.
16:51
SPEAKER_02: And again, when I started working with them, I was very clear from the very beginning saying, look, you guys have dealt with things like this.
16:57
SPEAKER_02: You have dealt with norovirs, you have dealt with other things, you know how to do these kinds of things.
17:01
SPEAKER_02: And I've been really impressed about how seriously they've taken the issues and how seriously they have confronted the problems.
17:07
SPEAKER_02: I think right now cruises are really doing an incredible job to increase safety.
17:12
SPEAKER_02: And again, it's the same things.
17:14
SPEAKER_02: You know, they have essentially vaccinated 100% of their crew.
17:17
SPEAKER_02: They essentially, many cruises are asking for 100% vaccinated passengers.
17:21
SPEAKER_02: They're doing testing, they're doing contact tracing.
17:24
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, while there have been a couple of infections that they picked up because they're doing so much testing, there have not been any outbreaks recently.
17:32
SPEAKER_02: So I think between increased sanitation, vaccination, testing, you know, many of the ships are now equipped with very sophisticated testing on board that they're able to test passengers right away and know exactly what's going on.
17:44
SPEAKER_02: And they have now isolation cabins where they can put up passengers and isolate them there.
17:48
SPEAKER_02: I haven't gotten a cruise ship yet, but I would be much more comfortable getting on a cruise ship today than I would have been at the beginning of the pandemic.
17:56
SPEAKER_02: I think things have changed dramatically.
17:57
SPEAKER_02: And I tell you, my experience working with many of them is I've been impressed about how much they have worked together to not only make cruises safe, but really to learn from each other has been really, to me, a wonderful learning experience to see the different industries working together to make cruising safe.
18:13
SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: This is very, very helpful.
18:15
SPEAKER_01: How should healthcare professional advice thinking about taking an international trip?
18:20
SPEAKER_01: Is there more to think about than just domestic travel?
18:24
SPEAKER_02: You know, I think in an international trip, you have other things to consider, right?
18:27
SPEAKER_02: Many international destinations like Europe and others are requesting proof of vaccination.
18:32
SPEAKER_02: So be ready to take your vaccination card with you and to show it frequently.
18:36
SPEAKER_02: In France, for example, you needed to go to the restaurants and other places.
18:39
SPEAKER_02: New York City just implemented something very similar.
18:42
SPEAKER_02: So it's not just only internationally.
18:44
SPEAKER_02: Number two is you need to be ready to be tested on the way back.
18:47
SPEAKER_02: And I've done a couple of international trips, three since the beginning of the pandemic and since the CDC implemented the testing requirement back in January.
18:55
SPEAKER_02: And it's really easy to get tested coming back, but you need to put that into your travel plans, right?
19:00
SPEAKER_02: 72 hours before I come back, I need to be tested.
19:03
SPEAKER_02: And it can be a PCR or an antigen test, but you need to be tested, and then you need to test it in a lab that is recognized in the country.
19:10
SPEAKER_02: And then they send you something that you then upload to your phone and allows you to get to security and check in and do other things.
19:16
SPEAKER_02: So testing becomes also an important issue.
19:18
SPEAKER_02: And then you need to really, you really need to check to see, you know, what's your insurance issue?
19:23
SPEAKER_02: Because let's suppose I got infected overseas.
19:26
SPEAKER_02: You know, will my insurance cover me if I end up in the hospital overseas?
19:29
SPEAKER_02: If I need care, what is the availability of care at that country I'm going to go to?
19:34
SPEAKER_02: And if I need, for example, evacuation insurance, will I need to get additional insurance for evacuation?
19:39
SPEAKER_02: So those are the other things I tell people to look into.
19:43
SPEAKER_01: Those are really great points, especially traveling abroad where one would not have the same insurance coverages.
19:49
SPEAKER_01: It's important to plan ahead about the travel.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: If someone does decide to travel domestically or internationally, what are the most important considerations for them?
19:58
SPEAKER_02: Well, again, I tell people to remember that there's still a pandemic out there, right?
20:02
SPEAKER_02: And it's not just during COVID, but every time people tend to be more risky and do more stupid things when you travel, right?
20:08
SPEAKER_02: I may not necessarily be ready right now to go and jump off a parachute, but all of a sudden I'm traveling.
20:14
SPEAKER_02: And guess what?
20:14
SPEAKER_02: I, you know, I may decide to do that.
20:17
SPEAKER_02: You do more risky things when you're traveling.
20:19
SPEAKER_02: And because of that, you're going to be increasing your risk of exposure.
20:22
SPEAKER_02: And I just tell people, besides all the things we talked about, continue remembering that you will be doing more things that will put you at higher risk, and therefore you're more likely to get infected.
20:33
SPEAKER_02: So always keep that in the front of your mind, right?
20:35
SPEAKER_02: If I'm going to be going to a city and I really want to be at a restaurant and I'm going to eat, well, should I eat outdoors?
20:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, probably should eat outdoors.
20:43
SPEAKER_02: You need to modify your plans because there's a pandemic out there.
20:46
SPEAKER_02: Also, if you're traveling internationally, you may be going to many countries where we don't have remotely the kind of vaccine coverage you have in this country.
20:53
SPEAKER_02: So you're going to be exposed to more unvaccinated individuals and therefore more individuals likely to transmit to you.
20:58
SPEAKER_02: And quite frankly, if you haven't been vaccinated, I would not recommend you travel right now.
21:02
SPEAKER_02: I think really, you know, it will be a significant mistake to travel if you have not been vaccinated.
21:07
SPEAKER_01: That's such an important point to consider vaccine as part and parcel of the travel plan itself.
21:12
SPEAKER_01: What do you think is the future of traveling, both in terms of numbers and what it will look like?
21:18
SPEAKER_01: Testing, masking, vaccine passports, et cetera.
21:22
SPEAKER_02: I think the airline industry is recovering because leisure travel is coming up, but business travel is not coming up in the similar way.
21:29
SPEAKER_02: And remember, when you get on a plane, the airlines live from the business traveler.
21:34
SPEAKER_02: It's from the expensive ticket that the business traveler buys at the front of the plane in the first class and pays a lot of money.
21:39
SPEAKER_02: And those of us traveling for leisure can then benefit and get out, you know, I can get a fairly cheap ticket to go someplace.
21:45
SPEAKER_02: Well, because business travelers are not coming back, and because the airlines have had significant financial losses, you're going to notice that the price of tickets is going to go up significantly.
21:53
SPEAKER_02: You're going to notice that planes will become very expensive.
21:56
SPEAKER_02: So, in the short term, you're going to be paying a lot more for your tickets.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: Than you thought is reasonable to pay.
22:01
SPEAKER_02: And you're going to get sticker shocked, tell you that right away.
22:04
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you're going to all of a sudden say, Well, why am I paying this amount of money for this ticket that in the past used to cost me half or less?
22:10
SPEAKER_02: The second thing is I think masking will continue to be something that even when it's removed as a mandate, I think we've continued to see people that will continue to mask complaints, whether it's required or not.
22:21
SPEAKER_02: They're going to feel more comfortable having a mask on them when they travel.
22:24
SPEAKER_02: So you're going to see more masked passengers.
22:26
SPEAKER_02: The next thing you're going to see is probably more testing becoming a requirement or something that is available when you travel.
22:32
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, CDC implemented testing for arriving international passengers.
22:36
SPEAKER_02: And I've always said to them, why not for every passenger?
22:38
SPEAKER_02: Why just internationally?
22:40
SPEAKER_02: If I'm traveling from St.
22:41
SPEAKER_02: Louis, Missouri right now to New York, you probably want to get me tested, right?
22:45
SPEAKER_02: So I think you're going to see more testing.
22:47
SPEAKER_02: I think you're also, unfortunately, going to see more rowdy and disgruntled, and I would say dangerous passengers.
22:52
SPEAKER_02: We've heard a lot of passenger range and many things like that.
22:55
SPEAKER_02: So I would say also stay calm and don't get angry because there's a lot of people that are going to be releasing their anger on a flight.
23:02
SPEAKER_02: And we've seen events of that already happening.
23:04
SPEAKER_02: And finally, vaccine passports are going to be a reality or whatever you want to call them, vaccine certification.
23:09
SPEAKER_02: And for those of us that have done a lot of international travel, this is not new.
23:12
SPEAKER_02: We've been using our yellow card for a long time.
23:15
SPEAKER_02: We have had our yellow card and our yellow fever vaccination with us.
23:19
SPEAKER_02: So we don't see this as something unique or different.
23:22
SPEAKER_02: And I think vaccination passports, vaccination certificates are going to become part and parcel.
23:27
SPEAKER_02: And many of the companies like Clear and Pass One and many others are already working on ways to do that.
23:32
SPEAKER_02: But I can also tell you that many airlines, including Delta and others, are looking at ways that you can actually upload your vaccine certificate into your profile in such a way that it appears in your app when you need it.
23:43
SPEAKER_02: So I think you need to get used also to vaccination passports being part of one of the things that you are required to show at some point during travel.
23:50
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: Do you have any final words for our listeners?
23:54
SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, I mean, my final word for you listeners is that this pandemic has expanded my horizons.
23:59
SPEAKER_02: It has allowed me to work with industries that I only use as a customer, right?
24:03
SPEAKER_02: The airline industry or the cruise industry, but I had never worked with them.
24:07
SPEAKER_02: And first of all, it's been an incredible learning experience for me, but also it has allowed me to see that they have amazing professionals absolutely dedicated to the safety and well-being, not only of their passengers, but also of their employees.
24:20
SPEAKER_02: And that to me has been a unique opportunity.
24:23
SPEAKER_02: So what I would tell your members and your listeners is there's opportunities for work and for sharing your expertise and your knowledge outside of the hospital walls.
24:31
SPEAKER_02: And I think if one thing is going to happen out of this pandemic, is many of these businesses and the travel industry is one of them, are going to need your expertise going forward, are going to benefit from your expertise and your knowledge and get involved with them.
24:43
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it is a great opportunity to do something that I think for me has been incredibly rewarding and something that I never thought I would get involved with.
24:51
SPEAKER_01: I think you're 100% right.
24:53
SPEAKER_01: I've gotten myself involved in several things, even schools for the kids and all that.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: There's so many opportunities that presented themselves in these challenging times.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: So you're right.
25:02
SPEAKER_02: And it just talks about the value of ID, right?
25:05
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we we keep on talking about the value of ID.
25:07
SPEAKER_02: Well, if we don't capitalize and make people realize outside the healthcare setting how important ID is, then we really missed a huge opportunity.
25:16
SPEAKER_02: I think everybody now needs to know the value of ID.
25:19
SPEAKER_02: And this pandemic is showing it.
25:20
SPEAKER_02: And again, it's not just to our CEOs and our hospitals, it's really to the business leaders of America.
25:25
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
25:26
SPEAKER_01: I think you're 100% right.
25:27
SPEAKER_01: And I think this is the time to kind of also show that we are involved in uh public health and that there is a lot of value even beyond the hassle that an ID clinician brings.
25:38
SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much, Dr.
25:39
SPEAKER_01: Del Rio.
25:40
SPEAKER_02: It's it's very, very helpful.
25:42
SPEAKER_02: Thank you again, and thanks, Chef, for everything that it's done and everything that the members have done.
25:46
SPEAKER_02: I think the hospital epidemiologists have been incredibly busy.
25:49
SPEAKER_02: I've seen them work, and I just want to say thank you.
25:51
SPEAKER_01: This podcast can be accessed on Shea's online education center, Learning CE, under the Rapid Response Program.
25:59
SPEAKER_01: You will also find other resources which include recorded webinars such as the SHA COVID-19 town halls.
26:06
SPEAKER_01: This concludes today's episode of Rapid Response Podcast.
26:10
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for tuning in.