Latest / No Mess, No Magic / What If Writing Is Actually Channeling?
Transcript
- Monica Hay: Hello and welcome everybody to No Mess No Magic with Monica Hay. Today I have a really exciting guest, Dani Van Couser. I love Dani, I've been following her work for a very long time. And this interview is gonna be talking all about like the spiritual side of writing and channeling. So I'm stoked to talk about this stuff because I have often not been honest about how spiritual my process is. And I just like love that I can talk about this with some other spiritual folks. So Dani is a writer and energy healer. Her fiction has been published by Non-Binary Review, HAD, Sheep's... Sheepshed? Is that? Sheepshed? ⁓ Sheep's head. Great start. Dani: Sheep's head. Monica Hay: and nightshade publishing and long listed by Uncharted Magazine. Sister Earth is her first novel. ⁓ Thank you so much for joining us, Dani. Dani: Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Monica Hay: Yes, fun fact for anybody who's listening, this is my first interview on the pod, so I'm very excited about this. So I am very curious when you talked about channeling, ⁓ using channeling in your practice. I want to jump right into these questions because I think a lot of writers might have heard of this concept but don't know a ton about it. So can you tell me a little bit about, first let's start with the work you do. Can you tell us a bit about the work that you do with helping writers heal their inner critic and activate their intuition? Dani: Absolutely. Yeah, and it really ends up being all very tied together, right? And so I... got into this because when I sat down to write my first novel, I struggled to actually write. so even though I could see like the whole vision of the book in my head, I had a short story that it was based on, but it was very difficult for me to sit down and write. And even though I had like left a job to give myself time, I was like, now I have time. I should be able to write thousands of words a day and it wasn't happening. So even though I had been a yoga teacher for years, I had not really meditated before. Monica Hay: Mm. Dani: So I got into meditation and one thing led to the next. I was on this meditation app called Insight Timer. People were teaching all of these other practices. And so I started to dabble and then energy healing really jumped out at me. I signed up for a six month long energy healing training, having never had a session. Like I had been to group sessions, had never been to like a one-on-one session. And I was just like, yes, like, I don't know how that happens, but Monica Hay: Mmm. Dani: Clearly something about it just, you know, appealed to me ⁓ and I think it's because like energy healing is a modality that you can do a session with but in the training you learn how energy works which is, ⁓ applies to basically everything. So just kind of understanding, ⁓ you think of like meditation, it's about consciousness and the imagination and inspiration process of writing is very much about consciousness as well. So it very cool to study that side by side with my own writing practice and have a better understanding of what exactly was going on. Monica Hay: Mmm. Dani: And so eventually I kind of went into that to serve myself, but eventually realized that this could be something I could help other writers with. so started to gear, you know, I had done, I had studied astrology as well. So I had done astrology readings and energy healing for people, but then I started to essentially market it towards writers and be like, I can help you with the writing with these tools. And that was a really cool way to bring it together. Because then when I would go into sessions, you know, someone would maybe come in and there's this specific chapter I'm having a really hard time with and I feel like I'm over explaining but I feel like the readers need to understand in order to trust me as a writer. So that would be kind of the issue they'd come in with. And so then what would end up happening is I would start asking questions and then be like, okay, this is actually about this thing that happened in your childhood when you felt like you needed to explain yourself. And so that's... Monica Hay: Mmm. Mmmmm Dani: is like running on loop and creating this, you know, difficulty with world building in your fantasy novel. And so it's super interesting how people would come in with something storytelling related and then it would end up being more of like a mindset issue or yeah, like a more of like a mental emotional block. Monica Hay: Mmm. Yeah. Right? Dani: But then there's the other way as well, where someone might say, I'm having trouble, you know, I think that I have this, this block where I just can't get this out. And then we do like a meditation, which, you know, meditation connects you to your intuition. And so then, in the meditation, like I might ask a question, like, what's one simple change that's going to help my writing process the most? And they come away with, I need to sit at a desk and write instead of my bed. Monica Hay: Hmm. Dani: And it's like, it's not so obvious, but it's like, you don't. Monica Hay: Mmm. Dani: you don't come up with that unless you kind of get silent and get into your intuition. yeah, just like bringing those together and then working with writers in a way where I can toggle between the two and be like, okay, is this something that is more, ⁓ more of like the inner critic emotional issue? Or is it actually just like a practical like, you know, here's what we need to do to write the scene or to structure the book or something like that. Monica Hay: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, this is kind of a tangent, but I have a question about this. Because of course I can't keep with the script that I have in my head. I'm very curious how with the way that our culture is built right now around social media, what kind of struggles that you're seeing your clients have with connecting with themselves over, you know, really being generally distracted by the internet and how they can actually get quiet with themselves. Has that been something you've noticed has been an issue with some of the people you work with? Dani: Mm-hmm. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. I have a client who like literally will find herself sitting there five hours later and be like, what just happened? How am I still on Instagram right now? And someone who is highly motivated to write the book and struggles with that. And this is something that I've really thought about for years because like, A decade ago, I was living in New York working as a journalist for publication and we would have like our, we would have like our writing or editing app on our screen and we would have. like Twitter at the time was what we used, it would be up side by side. And so we were like in between the social media and like, you know, our work itself. And as journalists living in New York, like I was kind of, you know, accepted, like it was it was actually work to stay on top of what was going on. ⁓ And I would see people who were really, really good at it and would, you know, go viral for stuff. Monica Hay: Mmm. Right? Dani: And it's just, it's so interesting because like I would just notice that, you know, when you're on social media, you're getting that ⁓ immediate validation. a dopamine hit from that. And in some sense, like you're seeing, you're able to kind of see what resonates with people and what hits emotional cord, which is really interesting. But then when you write a novel, you have months of like bouncing around ideas and being like, you know, your mind again, to talk about the inner critic, which is a big theme for me. Like your mind is like, well, what's the New York Times reviewer going to say about this? What's, you know, my friend from high school gonna say about this. I mean, that voice is just like really loud when you're trying to write and you don't get to know what people are gonna think about it and you have to write the bad version first. I love the name of your podcast, no mess, magic. Like you gotta get it out and it is messy. Monica Hay: Yeah. Right. Dani: ⁓ and this goes into the meditation as well because ⁓ you do have to kind of build up like this, strength ⁓ going deep on something without knowing how people are going to react. And I feel like when you're on social media, and maybe especially if you ⁓ are good at social media, it ends up, it's like training, training for the opposite sport and building up the muscles for the opposite experience. ⁓ one last thing I'll say about that is one of the biggest changes in my writing came ⁓ I did a 10-day silent meditation retreat. ⁓ that was a very difficult experience, but I walked away from it ⁓ to do a full hour-long meditation daily. ⁓ Monica Hay: Yeah. Mmm. Dani: And I continued that, think for at least six, maybe nine months after the retreat. And during that nine months was when I wrote my novel, Sister Earth. And so in the evening I would meditate for that full hour. And then in the morning, Monica Hay: Mm-hmm. Dani: I would get up and I would write for 90 minutes, take a break, write for 90 minutes and ability to sit still in my chair and write and not be like, what about this? What about this? ⁓ which directly connected with my, the practice of sitting down to meditate. And because that is you're just sitting there and you're having distractions come in and you're letting them go and you're having distractions come in and you're letting them go. And so it really is training the brain for something that's just highly relevant for your ability to focus. Monica Hay: Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yep. Dani: to write, especially like a heavy world building fantasy novel where you need to kind of follow a lot of different threads all at once. Monica Hay: Yeah, and I'm very, I have to ask you something about this retreat. before you went on this retreat, what was your process like versus after you went on the retreat? What did it look like between the two? Dani: It's so I had written, I had written a different novel before, one that's still not published. And so when I was writing that one, I would write. I had to give myself like a shorter ⁓ goal, like just one hour, ⁓ because it was really hard. ⁓ Because I was, I was setting the word count goal too high and then I wasn't able to reach it. And then I was frustrated and it was like, you know, turning into like a, like a cycle, ⁓ a cycle of being angry with myself. So for that one, yeah, I think I had set it at an hour. Sometimes I would go over and then I would Monica Hay: Mm-hmm. Right. Dani: like take a long walk with my dog and like really just like get into nature. And at that time, I didn't know what I was doing because I hadn't done all the energy healing training yet. But it's actually that when you're writing, you're really opening up your intuitive channels and you're processing like a lot of, you're processing a lot of information, which energetically it's light. It's literally light that you're bringing in. Monica Hay: Mmm. Mmm. Dani: to your energy fields. And so it's like you're connected. And so then if you need to be in the world, you need to reground. And so if you're psychic and you're doing a session with someone, you do like an opening meditation to kind of ground and center, and then you open up the intuition just like you do in writing session. But at the end of a psychic session, you close it off and reground so that your body stays healthy, because it's like, Monica Hay: Mmm. Mm. Dani: It's like our soul is kind of like, it wants to be out there in the stars and like can't operate in our human body if like our soul is kind of like has exited. And just like think about when people talk about creative flow, like that's a really common concept where you don't notice time going by and you're fully immersed in what's happening. It's because it's like your soul is the one that's doing the work. Like you're actually not really there. Monica Hay: Yeah. Mm, I love this, I love this. yeah, I wanna, let's talk about this for a second. So you talk about how creative flow might actually be channeling or kind of channeling. Can you explain what that means for people? Dani: So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so... ⁓ Channeling, if people are familiar with Abraham Hicks, it's maybe one of the most well-known channelers. So it's actually a woman named Esther Hicks and she channels, she calls the like being or entity that she channels Abraham Hicks, because it's like a blend of her. And I think she uses the term Abraham because it's like not tied to a single religion. I think that's why she originally chose that name. So, ⁓ so it's like ⁓ a real human woman, right? But she goes into a meditative state and she is, this other voice is speaking through her. Another well-known one is Bashar is the name of the entity that's being channeled. And I forget the guy's name. But I mean, if you Google it, you'll find videos of him. And when they do this, their voice changes, their tone of voice, know, kind of the words they use. Another one of my... ⁓ Monica Hay: Yes. Dani: psychic teachers is her name's Brie Melanson. And she's amazing. She channels a lot of, ⁓ she channels a lot of ETs, aliens. ⁓ she's really cool. ⁓ but yeah, if you see a video of her, she kind of is like moving her arms around and she's talked about how she's actually very self-conscious of how she looks when she's channeling. But like she's in a state and she's, it's like when they're in a channeling state, they're, it's kind of like you're sitting there listening. Monica Hay: Mmm. Yeah. Dani: and just observing, you're not, you have to be so good at meditation that you can kind of get your into a state where you're not disrupting the process, even when you're saying something super weird or you're like, none of this makes sense. ⁓ So, so basically, you know, they sit down and they choose who am I, who am I going to channel and then Monica Hay: Mmm. Yeah. Dani: like the ⁓ self gets out of the way and the entity you're being speaks through them. ⁓ that's ⁓ classic channeling. Then there's also something called channel writing, ⁓ ⁓ you're not like kind of giving the entity a way to, ⁓ know, use or speak through your body, but you're just again, you're kind of just getting out of the way and listening and just letting your ⁓ letting yourself right. Monica Hay: Mmm. Hmm. Dani: So if people have done The Artist's Way, a really popular book, Morning Pages is a practice in it where you're free writing and you're letting yourself write without critiquing yourself. One my friends recently was like, that's channel writing. And it is. It's like step one of channel writing is to just free write. Step two. Monica Hay: Yeah. Right. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Dani: you do that already and you want to play around with it. Step two would be like, I'm going to write from like my higher self or I'm going to write my future self one year from now, someone who has solved the plot holes in my book and knows how to deal with them. Monica Hay: Mmm. Yeah. Dani: ⁓ can be like, I'm going to channel right from my grandma who's passed away. ⁓ can play around with in those different ways, ⁓ aspects of yourself ⁓ ⁓ know, different, again, different entities, ⁓ you're comfortable with. ⁓ ⁓ know, your, your spirit team is like another, you know, kind of entity. It's like a group that you could ⁓ from. ⁓ so ⁓ thing that was sort of ⁓ for me is that I wrote that Monica Hay: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Dani: first novel? I, there were especially certain days or certain scenes where I really got into creative flow and the story went in like ⁓ somewhere that was not on my outline dialogue that I was like, ⁓ that's, that's interesting. Where, are we going now? ⁓ so it was like sitting down to write, but it was also like sitting down to watch a Netflix show that I had never seen. Like it was just ⁓ itself was, you know, coming from a different place. Monica Hay: Yeah. Yeah. Dani: And so, the writing was like especially good when I was in that state. So when I got to the end of that novel, again, on this app, Insight Timer, I came across a session called channel writing. And when I saw the name channel writing, I was like, I think that's what I'm doing, but I didn't know what it was. And so then I go to the session and then I learned like, okay, it's this practice, you know, blah, blah. Monica Hay: Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Dani: But ⁓ so that was a big piece of like why I was drawn to the energy healing training and so on and to understand because I sort of like stumbled into. know, channeling novels and I didn't know that that's what I was doing. Once I knew that was what I was doing, I could then study it and get better at it. And I mean, that became part of the process was like, ⁓ I don't need to like sit down and like work, work, work or like effort. It's more like sit down, get really relaxed and listen. Monica Hay: Right. Yeah. Dani: So it's a very different energy to bring into it and just trust. Like I mentioned plot holes, but like part of my process with that second novel, once I had studied this so much was if I think that I'm, you know, I've hit a dead end and I've messed up my novel and there's no way to like move forward with it, I would just be like, okay, there's 50 ways to move forward with it. Tell me which one is the one. Monica Hay: Yeah. Mmm. Dani: And so it's like I'm kind of having this communication with this other part of myself that's already written the novel or already knows. So very, very different. Monica Hay: Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious, how long, when you started channeling, how much time did it take you to learn, you know, maybe you started channeling and you had to get used to it. Like, was there kind of a period of time where you had to learn to let it work and trust? Was there like a discomfort phase for you when you started? Dani: Yeah, I think because I kind of stumbled into it with that first novel. So it was like, wasn't doing, I wasn't fully in it every day. ⁓ But the way that my writing has been is that like, I'll spend three months writing a draft and then I won't work on it for like months. And then I'll go in and do edits and then I won't work on it. And so I feel like... Monica Hay: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Dani: I feel like this is something you and I have maybe talked about a bit before this, ⁓ fatigue that comes with writing and how that's just kind of like this ⁓ experience that in the writing community you don't talk about, but in the psychic community, you absolutely do. ⁓ yeah. So I feel like it's, it's very, it's very taxing on me. Monica Hay: Yeah. Dani: to be like fully into my intuition in the writing process, maybe because that's the way I'm dealing with the channeling. And so I would take like months away from it, but then it's like, when I take months away from a writing project, my subconscious is definitely like working things out. Cause then I'll kind of, I'll have like a, epiphany or something and then I'll be like, okay, now I'm ready to go back in. Monica Hay: Mmm. Dani: but there is a sense of like, okay, I'm diving back in the deep end of the water now, like ⁓ time that I go into ⁓ or to work on something because, and I'll give you an example from ⁓ earth, novel that is out. ⁓ ⁓ it, had some friends read it at edits, but then I didn't touch it for 18 months. ⁓ then, ⁓ Monica Hay: Yeah. Mmm. Dani: you know, through, through kind of serendipity found this amazing editor, hired someone to edit it. Cause it was like, knew, I knew it wasn't ready, but I didn't know what about it wasn't ready. So hired an editor, got the feedback. And when I went in to do the revisions, it was like a whole new level of the channeling where like sometimes I, cause I needed to write like five more chapters at the end. Monica Hay: Right. Dani: Sometimes I forget what's in there because I feel like, again, it's like, it's not really me. I was just like, ⁓ and this, and then this, and this. And it just like came together so beautifully. ⁓ and I'm like, what, you know, cause also when you're channeling again, how I was saying, you're kind of just sitting there observing and like the writing's just kind of happening. ⁓ my teachers who channel, they record. Monica Hay: Mmm. Right. Yeah. Dani: they record it so that they can listen back because it's like you do it and you don't really remember what happened. Monica Hay: Yep, yep. And you're talking about Nadine, are you talking about Nadine, or the editor? Yes. Yeah, Nadine, ⁓ if anybody's listening and knows Nadine Shaw, she is, she's so fucking gifted as an editor. Like I don't even know how else to describe it. Dani: Yes, my amazing computer. Yeah, yeah, she is. Monica Hay: She is. ⁓ Yeah, I always send people to her because she writes the most incredible, she just gets it. She knows, she has this deep knowing of how to help you a story. But I love this. So when you first started doing it, you kind of stumbled into it. then now, how do you teach people who might be in this intense inner critic stage of not being able to channel all in their their intuition is very cut off to getting in a place where they actually can channel and get to more of a flow state. Dani: Mm. Yeah, yeah, it's a mix of inner and outer. So sit down and understand what what brings you into a relaxed state of like ease and delight, even. So what are those things and what are the things currently in your life that are pulling you out of it? So I had a client who she she doesn't like where she lives. Monica Hay: Mmm. Mmm. ⁓ Dani: And there's like, there were some issues about, you know, other places because of her health, other places she could move, but it's like every time she gets home, she's disgusted. And so to have that as like a recurring element of every single day. Monica Hay: Yeah, fair. Dani: ⁓ or other clients, sometimes it's like, you know, someone at work or something like that, but figuring out what are these, these like daily triggers that are kind of pulling you out of this, like relaxed state. And then if it's setting boundaries with a relationship or making a real change in your life. and also, cause you have to understand like, okay, this is affecting my writing. So those outer changes. And then also, you know, adding in some kind of spiritual practice, you know, which doesn't, again, when I say spiritual practice, it doesn't have to be silent meditation. could absolutely be a walk in nature or taking a bath. A really good one for scrub with like the scent. Monica Hay: Hmm. Mmm. Dani: physical pleasure of it, really just gets my body into this very relaxed, like, I'm happy to be here kind of a state, ⁓ which makes a big difference if I sit down in journal after doing that. It's just like, I'm so much, so much more connected. So yeah, so it's making the outer changes and then having those inner practices. But then the other part that I feel like is a really big block for people is that when the inner critic comes up, they Monica Hay: Hmm. Yeah. Mmm. Yeah. Dani: feel like they're doing something wrong. And so they're like, ⁓ I'm just bad at writing. This isn't worth it. And for me, actually, I mean, definitely the writing, but also when I started my podcast, I Monica Hay: Right. Dani: Anytime I'm in the act of doing something creative, it pushes the edge and it's like, kind of brings up the garbage. so, and if we use the, the language of energy, if you're bringing in more inspiration, that's more light, but it's creating more contrast. And so it's like, if you're like, ⁓ I've got this beautiful, you know, couch in the attic, but then you go up there, you turn the light on and you see like, there's some rats, there's some dust, there's some junk up there. Monica Hay: Mmm. Mmm. Dani: the couch, you've got to get rid of all that other stuff that's in there. And so it's like, it's a frustrating part of the process, but it ultimately is a very healing part of the process that Monica Hay: Yes. Dani: When we sit down to write a book, it opens our intuition and it exposes what's in our subconscious. And a lot of the stuff in our subconscious is not very pretty. So the act of writing the book is going to bring it out so that we use it for good, but it's going to be uncomfortable. You're going to notice that there's a head that's just like throwing tomatoes at you and... Monica Hay: Mmm. Right. Dani: It's just now for me, I just know this is part of the process. These insults are not real. Yeah. Monica Hay: Yeah. Yeah, I think that's really interesting because you're kind of saying that there's these pieces of ourselves that we have to clear that away and give it space before we can actually get to the stuff that we're excited about. It's like you have to clean your kitchen at night or those types of things. What do you usually recommend for people to actually do the clearing? it doing a brain dump before they write? What kind of stuff? could that look like for helping clear things out of your subconscious? Dani: Mm-hmm. Yeah, definitely. I've had some clients have a lot of success with sitting down to free write and actually starting with writing all the things that I hate, all the things I'm upset about. They do that for 30 minutes and just be really honest about it. And then it's like it shifts and then they're like, and then this is what I love. And it's just natural. And it's super interesting. Monica Hay: Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. Dani: I think because in spiritual circles, there is a lot of talk about being positive and being high vibe. But one nuance of that is it's very high vibe to be honest and let that stuff come out and have full acceptance. This is a little nuance, but I can accept that I hate this part of my life. Monica Hay: Right. Yes. Dani: and like I can accept that about myself and then it's like it just lightens the whole thing. Monica Hay: Yes, I love that you brought that up because I, for many years, I was very into like the spiritual community, which I still am, but in a different way. And I got into this like very toxic relationship with my own negative thinking and feeling. And in the last, I would say four or five years, I've learned how to incorporate my negative feelings and my negative self-talk ⁓ through parts work with my therapist. And now I like, Dani: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Monica Hay: actually, you know, all have like a parts work meeting. And for anybody who's listening who doesn't know what parts work is, it's like the idea that we all have parts of ourselves. If anybody's watched Inside Out from Pixar, that's based on parts work. And, you know, I'll have like a little meeting with myself and I allow these really like, these pieces that I would rather shove away, like a lot of times spiritual communities call them shadows, right? in the therapy world, I think they might call them exiled parts. But I would have these exiled or shadow parts that want to come up and like be angry or talk about what they're going through. And so often for so many years, I wanted to shove them aside and just be like, this is not helpful. This is keeping me from my dream life. And truly it's been so incredibly healing to actually give those parts space and to like treat those parts as a whole of me. Because so often, Those parts are just gonna come back fucking louder later on. You're not getting rid of them. You're just silencing them for a little while until they like come back with a vengeance, which is what happened to me a years ago. It's like parts were just like, ⁓ cannot, like you need to stop shoving us away. And so I love that you're talking about, ⁓ kind of like going to your journal just like talking some shit for a minute for like, you know, to get all the stuff out. Dani: Yeah. Monica Hay: because it's not that you're like complaining or being negative, it's that you're giving space to these parts of you that if you exile them, they're not gonna go away. They're only gonna get louder and more painful. And giving them space also helps you get to the good stuff and the channeling and the writing that you want to do. I love that. Being honest is high vibration. I haven't heard that one, I love that. Dani: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Monica Hay: Yeah, I am ⁓ curious. So. When somebody is, a lot of anxious writers ⁓ really struggle to understand or to listen to their intuition because sometimes their fear voice or the anachronistic voice feels like their intuition. Is there a way that writers can learn to distinguish between intuition and fear and anxiety? Dani: Mm hmm. Yeah, this is such a good question. And I feel like there are so many layers to it. The way Yeah, I know. Well, yeah. And like, so I'll, I'll say like, from my experience, I try to tap into, like, does it feel like light like, ⁓ or does it feel like ⁓ about like taking an action? Monica Hay: Yeah, it's not an easy question to answer. Mmm. Dani: because again, with like my experience moving through like the spiritual community and healing and everything like that, a message that I hear a lot is to do what lights you up. Laying on my bed lights me up, like, you know, launching a podcast brings out my inner critic and makes me feel like shit. So it's just a little bit confusing. Monica Hay: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yes. Mmm. Yes. Dani: because the things that our soul is drawn to are bringing up the healing and so they can feel pretty uncomfortable. So it's sort of like, do I feel resistance towards this because it's not for me, it's not my path or because it's just uncomfortable, but it's something that I need to move through. So I think... Monica Hay: Right. Dani: know, ⁓ are lot of practices around tapping into your body so you can kind of do a meditation and then ask yourself the question and then just see if your body feels kind of ⁓ or like and like feel into different parts of your body. ⁓ another practice is like starting out by like, so I'll do a meditation and then think of my dog who I love, see what that feels like. Monica Hay: Mmm. Mmm! Dani: And then think of like stepping on a snail, which is gross. What does that feel like? Right? So like what's like yay. what's, uh, uh, so there's a lot of practices around that, but then I would ultimately say, because anxiety specifically is about like the not knowing how things are going to go. And the only way that you can resolve that is just to take an action in one way or the other. Monica Hay: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Dani: because you can action, you're going to get new information and then it's going to be a little more clear. even like, think getting comfortable with taking the wrong action, coming back to self-acceptance because building your intuition is just. Monica Hay: Yes. Yeah. Dani: It's not about just figuring it out and just knowing it. It's like riding a bike or like I compare it to like ice skating. Like it's like something that takes some skill and you've got to like practice and you've got to be okay with falling down. You're never going to learn to do the spin or whatever until you do it and fall down a bunch of times. So just saying like, you know, I'm learning to follow my intuition. I'm learning what that feels like sometimes. Like I followed my intuition and like applied for this job. I wasn't sure. Monica Hay: Right. Mmm. you Yup. Dani: wanted it but I felt like I had gotten a sign that I should apply for it and like something happened in the interview that was very uncomfortable and I cried for like the entire weekend and I was just like why why did I do that? Monica Hay: Mmm. Dani: ⁓ It was very strange and like I honestly can't give you like a logical answer for it. Like wasn't my intuition kind of setting me up for that discomfort or was I, did I misread my intuition? Ultimately, it doesn't really matter. That's just me falling and like you just have to keep, you know, tracking what feels like intuition, take one little baby step in a direction and then, you know, learn from like the data point. Monica Hay: Yeah. Mmm. Yeah, yeah, it's like trial and error, right? And I think a lot of times when we get caught up in anxiety, like any kind of trial and error feels like, oh God, this is so unsafe. But ultimately, you know, like it's not a big deal if you have to rewrite a chapter or scene or, you know, something happens like that. I'm very curious. So what, tell us about... Dani: Mm. Yeah. Monica Hay: When you first started learning about intuition and creativity and you said you stumbled into it, how did you, when you first learned about channeling, did you recognize like, ⁓ I am channeling and I can learn how to access this more quickly and more easily. And so when you learned about it, I feel like I'm like, trying to explain my question very well. Basically, when you learned about it, were you surprised that that's what you were doing? Or were you like, ⁓ yeah, that's what I'm, you know, I knew this was what I was actually doing the whole time. Dani: think initially, initially I was a little bit surprised. Well, I would just say I just didn't trust. would say like when I told you that story, when I saw channel writing, I was like that, you know, like that. think that was I was doing. But I was like, okay, but no, no, I've never trained in that. I'm not skilled at like, I wouldn't be doing that, you know? And so I went to a class that was on... Monica Hay: Mmmmm Yeah Right. Dani: creative, was maybe just intuition and creativity. And I think I just asked and she was the teacher was like, yeah, like everyone who's creating art is channeling like that they don't they might not know it. But that's what they're doing. And it's super interesting because, like I do think of like, you know, TV shows or books that are a little bit they end up being kind of predictive. Monica Hay: Mmm. Mmm. Dani: And it's like, a lot of writers are actually channeling and have no idea that they're doing it. Monica Hay: Mmm. Yeah, yeah, there could be some ego getting in the way of like, no, this is like my creation, right? Like, you know, I don't think the ego is necessarily bad or good. I think it's just a neutral thing. And sometimes we like give a bad rep to the ego. But, you know, I do think that it's interesting to accept that like maybe it's not coming from me, right? Like that's that delicious flow state that so many of us we get into. And I know that when I write and like sometimes I'll just be like, I have no... Dani: Hmm. Yeah. Monica Hay: what's going on and where this is coming from. Like this is amazing and it's a vibe and like that's one of the reasons I don't like to outline is because when I write that's pretty much what's going on is I just have no idea what's coming to the page and I just trust that it's coming. What would you tell to like people who might be a little control freaky about their work? Like how to like let go and have some faith while they're writing to channel? What would you tell them? Dani: Uh-huh. Yeah, well, I like kind of what you were mentioning about the ego because I think maybe some people have the takeaway of like, ⁓ if I'm channeling, it's it's not my work or it's not from me. And like, it's that's not that's not true. Like it's coming through you. And you are available for it. And so like you are, you still get the credit. A lot of work to like let something come through you in that way. Monica Hay: Mm-hmm. Yes. You're like the vessel through it, yeah. Yeah. Dani: So, like that's the first thing I would say is like still give yourself the credit for those things that you've written. Monica Hay: Love it. Yeah. I'm curious. So tell me about your book. I'm very, I want to hear about what this beautiful book is that you wrote. And I want to hear also kind of your story on, did you say you wrote it before you learned what you were actually doing or did you write it after you learned that you were channeling? curiosity. Dani: Yeah, so my book is called Sister Earth. And so I wrote a different book first, and that one's not published. And then Monica Hay: Beautiful. Dani: once I got, I failed, like I queried a hundred agents, failed to get an agent with that one, hired a different developmental editor who was, who was also very good, got feedback, still haven't gone back to revise the previous novel, but learned so much from it that Monica Hay: Mmm. Dani: and had also done all the spiritual training and everything. Then I wrote, I applied all of that to write Sister Earth. So second novel I've written, first one I've published, and it is the one that's out. ⁓ So Sister Earth is about a futuristic matriarchy. It follows three women who are approaching motherhood. they live in an entirely intuitive society where people are living in harmony with nature ⁓ their ⁓ their economy is entirely based around art. So a lot of books ⁓ all the books and movies about the future show like destruction and conflict and ⁓ like ⁓ it was like let's put women in charge and then let's see like let's go in the exact opposite direction. ⁓ Monica Hay: Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Dani: and see how we can like imagine a beautiful future and what that would look like. And then of course, you know, there's, there's still some drama because you got to have some kind of plot. there's still some issues. but actually that was part of the exploration for me was like, if women were in power, would they be toxic, but maybe in a different way than men would be toxic power. So. Monica Hay: Yes. Yeah, for sure. Dani: That's what I was playing with, but it is interesting, you know, because my own journey was about connecting to my intuition in the writing process. But then I'm also writing about a character who's intuitive in an intuitive society, and ⁓ she's creating art. So there is like some parallels between like her journey and my own journey in writing the book. Monica Hay: Mmm. Mmm. Hmm, I love that. I love that. So I have one final question. A lot of, so I feel like you might have heard this before, but a lot of writers would be like, oh, my characters are like talking to me. When people tell you that, what do you think is happening in moments like that? Dani: Yeah. Yeah, well, I think it's interesting that you do parts work because I think that there's a pretty strong parallel there. Someone who took a writing class with me also does a lot of parts work and also I would say she's definitely, she has this fantasy world that she's written like a script and a short story and she's explored it for like, I think more than 10 years. Monica Hay: Mmm. Mmm. Dani: super fascinating, but this is something I noticed as well is like, it's not like one character is based on me. It's like each character is a different part of my psyche. I get to play into, you know, different elements. yeah, so I do think, because when people say, especially writers, know, mainstream writers who have said the characters are talking to them, Monica Hay: Yeah. Dani: I don't know ⁓ conscious they are of the process. They might not know. ⁓ would say that they're channeling. I would also say that we're all channeling on some extent. ⁓ just how deeply are you channeling, which comes down to like, how, you know, ⁓ immersed do you feel in the process? Like how you were describing your process. Like that's essentially like a spiritual connection that you're, that you're, you know, the writing becomes like its own spiritual practice because you're getting to. Monica Hay: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dani: connect to inspiration, which, yeah, it feels amazing. So, yeah, I think people are having conversations with actual like entities. Monica Hay: Mmm. Dani: be its own podcast to really understand what that means because spiritually speaking like trees have consciousness, the ocean has consciousness, a rock has consciousness. So like yeah your invented characters have their own consciousness. It's sort of a projection of your consciousness but it's separate enough like when you're doing parts work and you're talking to these different parts of you, talking to your characters is really just the same thing. Monica Hay: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm Yeah, I love that. Yeah, it's very interesting that you there's parallels to it. Because I find parts work very healing. ⁓ It'd be interesting to open a parts work of my characters and see what they have to say for different things. Dani: That would be, I do that and then teach a class on it. Cause I think it would be so helpful for people. Cause people really do. Yeah. It can really open up like, again, like you get into that space and it can open up new pathways in terms of like where the story can go. It's super interesting. Monica Hay: That would be very interesting. Yeah. When you start, ⁓ when you show up to write, how long does it usually take you to get into the channeling state? Dani: It varies, but I would say, like, if I am writing a novel draft, the way that I've done it is, I clear everything else away, and that's what I'm doing for three months. So when I'm in the flow, like, day by day, ⁓ and I'm doing that meditation in the evening, like, it can be pretty quick. But I would say, so even with Sister Earth, this most recent novel, Monica Hay: Mmm. Dani: I would get up in the morning and I would sit in a chair with my coffee for like an hour beforehand and maybe I'd be journaling a bit. So there was kind of like a lead up to then it's like, I'm sitting there with the coffee until I feel myself kind of tap in and then I'm like, ⁓ wait. And once the ideas start flowing, then it's like, go and sit down to. Monica Hay: Mm, yeah. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. I do you have like a you're not looking at any kind of external things like social media or like, you know, the internet and stuff like that. Dani: No. Yeah, it's not in the morning. So maybe I look at it in the afternoon, but I also, I'm having difficulties with mental health or I'm needing to write something, like I was working on a short story back in January. And so I would go like four days without social media or email in order to like really get into the short story. Monica Hay: Yeah. Mmm. Yeah, got it. Yeah, if ⁓ I'm curious, there for anybody who's listening, who's like, can't not check my email for four days because of my job or like, you know, whatever it might be. What are some some easier like ways that you can still tap in even if you have to be using these devices and like going on the internet to do work and stuff like that? Dani: Yeah, I mean, yeah, if you have to check it, I would say, decide if it's going to be like 30 minutes or an hour and set a time like so it's going to be 5pm for 30 minutes, I'm going to check in respond to anything essential. And then I would also ⁓ bookend it with a spiritual practice. So some like deep breathing beforehand and then afterwards, like some more deep breathing or stretching or ⁓ Monica Hay: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Dani: Just something like that to kind of bump your consciousness back into the present moment. Monica Hay: like that. Yeah, like bringing your center back and bring yourself back to center. I like that. So where do people find you if they're curious about working with you? Dani: Yeah, so my website, dannyfanghauser.com, ⁓ one of the links at the top says work with me and so you'll find info on coaching. I also do book editing myself. So all of the info is on that page. And then also just Instagram, I'm posting a lot of stuff about my novel there and other, you know, I just started a literary open mic in Laguna Beach that... Monica Hay: rules. Dani: been doing, so sometimes I do online events as well. So yeah. Monica Hay: Nice, I love it. Well, thank you so much, Jenny. This was so fun. Dani: Yeah, thank you, Monica. Amazing conversation. Great to be here.