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Kissing Rings and Killing Puppies · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Jon Lovett.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: I'm Tommy Vitor. On today's show, politicians in both parties
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: get involved in the battle over the Gaza protests on
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: college campuses. More Republicans who've criticized Trump fall in line.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: And Kristi Noem is not sorry for murdering puppies. Proud
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: of it.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Puppy.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Maybe more. We don't know. Yeah.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: She got the taste for blood. That's for sure.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: But first, let's talk about the state of the race.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: We got Donald Trump, criminal defendant who can't seem to
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: stay awake or stop complaining about the temperature of the courtroom.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: And then we got Joe Biden. He's out there cracking jokes,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: taking shots at Trump. sitting down with Howard Stern and
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: pissing off the New York Times by not sitting down
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: for an interview with them. Though the Times did write
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: a favorable story about Biden's strategy here, noting that the
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: campaign wants the split screens comparison between the two candidates
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: and that the president is very much trying to get
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: under Trump's skin by taunting him and calling him a loser.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: What do you guys think of that strategy and how
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: it's impacting coverage of the race? Any risks? Tommy? Sure.
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: I would like to note that our office was once
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: very cold, and I stand in solidarity with my president.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Wow. I think it still goes back and forth a lot.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: It does go back and forth.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: It's possible. Anyway, that's our problem.
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: On the tone thing, I do think it's kind of
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: a fine line. I think it's good to be funny.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: It's good to crack jokes. It's good to get in
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: the news. But ultimately, Biden's kind of founding ethos was
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: restoring the soul of the nation and being the one
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: who can unite a divided country. So you have to
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: be careful that you don't overstep that. I did talk
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: to some folks— on the Biden team who felt like
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: that times article was a bit overstated. They were like, uh,
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: we're doing some message events this week. Like some things
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: are going to be rolling out policies in battleground States.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: Sometimes we're going to do contrast events where we attack Trump.
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: Like it's kind of standard was their thought.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: But yeah, first of all, this is, it was a
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: month ago though. I know we, a month ago is
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: forever ago that we first got wind that this was
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: Biden directed. Remember that like the NBC reported that Biden
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: was wanted to kind of start picking fights to kind
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: of get under Trump's skin. And, sort of to immediate effect,
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: that Trump started responding almost instantly to every time Biden
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: kind of laid an insult. I like it. I actually,
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: we'll talk about the Correspondents' Dinner later, but I was
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: surprised by some of the places Biden went. Like, he
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: hasn't made those kinds of jokes before. He went a
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: little harder than I expected.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: Sharp.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: And I like it. I just, I like it.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: I think that, like, trading too many insults can be,
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: annoying and silly to voters. I also think in this
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: media environment, you really don't have any other choice. He's
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: not going to be able to reach voters that he
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: needs to reach if he just gives speeches, policy speeches
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: with polite contrast. And that's his biggest challenge. That's the
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: campaign's biggest challenge is actually reaching and communicating with voters
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: who have mostly tuned out of politics, are consuming a
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: lot less political media than they used to, And the
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: Biden campaign gets this. I talked to Rob Flaherty, their
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: deputy campaign manager, who ran digital strategy in the White
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: House on offline this week. Check it out. And and
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: he said the same thing. He said this is all
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: of their thinking about every day is just a lot
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: of people tuned out of politics. And how do you
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: break through and actually get them?
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: And Biden kind of gets asked about this in the
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: smart list interview, whether this was a deliberate change to
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: mix it up and punch back harder. And his response
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: is basically like, well, we're responding to what Trump is
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: already doing and we're trying to respond with facts, but
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: we can't match the Trump show. And again, that is
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: another risk with Trump. Like there's no bottom for Trump.
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: You know, he will say the nastiest things about you
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: and we'll take it further than you ever can.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: And so suddenly you're Marco Rubio making dick jokes.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: Right. Exactly.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: Exactly. And you don't want to be that. Yeah. I
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: do also think there's a difference between, well, you might
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: end up being VP, you know, shortlist.
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: You gotta move.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: You gotta move. I do think there's also a difference.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: Hey, Hey, sorry.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: I do think there's also a difference between how Biden,
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: like Biden is now a candidate.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: He is campaigning.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: And I think that is different than how he is
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: in his official remarks. I also, by the way, expect
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: that Joe Biden will continue to make a certain subset
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: of online libs mad by praising Republicans every chance he
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: possibly gets. And I think isolating Trump as worthy of
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: mockery while saying there are many good Republicans, like the
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: kind of rhetoric he's been using in the past is
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: a great way to kind of, I think, make Tommy's
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: point while still trying to get under Trump's skin.
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: Matt Gaetz, fun to party with.
• 4:42
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: Sure. Don't agree with them politically. So the media strategy
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: of reaching voters by going around traditional news outlets is
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: something candidates and campaigns have been doing for more than
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: a decade now, though there has been some recent drama
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: between Biden world and the times after a political piece
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: about how the paper's mad the president won't do an
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: interview with them. We don't have to get into all
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: the drama. Probably most of you haven't heard about it.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: God bless you.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: Hopefully you die without knowing about it.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: God bless you if you haven't. But from a campaign perspective,
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: how do you guys think about the balance between doing
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: traditional and non-traditional media interviews?
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: First of all, I remember I wanted to play this
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: clip because this reminded me of a story. I couldn't
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: actually find the original story, but we have a clip
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: and this is from 2004 when George W. Bush went
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: on Roland Martin's fishing show. Can we play that clip?
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: Roland at a fishing show?
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: Different Roland Martin. Oh.
• 5:38
  Speaker 6: A little bitty guy hitting it. I came out to
• 5:41
  Speaker 6: fish with a fellow who works out here. We caught
• 5:46
  Speaker 6: a bunch of crappie. We filleted them, cooked them, and
• 5:49
  Speaker 6: served dinner to Vicente Fox, the president.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: Of Mexico. So in 2004, it is George W. Bush
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: appearing on Outdoor Life television on a fishing channel. And
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: it was part of a story in 2004 about Republican micro-targeting,
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: that Republicans were going to go find, they were going
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: to go around the traditional media to go find voters.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: And as part of this- Worked.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: It did work.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: Well, and then, and he went on ESPN, which was
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: a big deal at the time. And they, Kerry countered
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: that by throwing out a pitch, which I'm sure went terribly. Yeah.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: Remember, Tommy, when the Senate office, when Obama went on
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Monday Night Football?
• 6:28
  Speaker 5: Oh, yeah.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: That was a big deal. That was fun.
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: I still don't think Bill Clinton should have played the
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: saxophone that one time. And this is such an old debate.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: The saxophone. Right.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: It was the boxers or briefs thing. Remember, Bill Clinton
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: had the boxers or briefs.
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: I mean, doing Howard Stern is like unequivocally smart. Stern
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: gets 10 million listeners per episode, then they chop it
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: up on YouTube and many, many more people will see
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: it there. It'll live on social media. And it was like,
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: more interesting content. It was like about stories about his
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: life and deeper things.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: I can always tell when something breaks through and like the,
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: the normies in my life, uh, well, like my college
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: text chain, people were like, wait, did you hear Biden
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: on Stern? Biden was good on Stern. And I'm like, wait,
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: we haven't talked about politics here in a while. Yeah. Yeah.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: Also like Howard Stern has just sort of, he's, he
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: has left the kind of, he has no footprint in
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: the media because he just, his, his, his own ecosystem is,
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: He doesn't care that much of it. Like the clips
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: don't really go that far very rarely anyway. But you know,
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: it's reaching just a huge audience of people.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: That aren't paying attention. I also think doing interviews with
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: like traditional network news television, right? Like that's, I think
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: that's worthwhile because you reach a lot of people like
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: print interviews, right? You know, look, if it's maybe a
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: little more useful to the campaign, if the outlet in
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: question releases the full transcript of the interview, which they
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: all probably do now, but like I don't know if
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: your candidate time is like the most precious resource you
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: have on the campaign. And if it's between giving a
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: print interview to an outlet like the New York Times,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: that again is mostly Biden voters reading that. I don't
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: know if that's the best use of time versus a
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: whole bunch of other like creative interviews with different outlets
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: that people who aren't political junkies are consuming.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like, I think I agree with that.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: My only thought on it is that Biden has a
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: specific challenge. I mean, there's a reason that Trump thinks
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: there's value to pretending Joe Biden won't debate him is
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: because it feeds a Republican argument that Joe Biden is
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: not up to debate. Joe Biden has faced, obviously, a
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: lot of questions around his age and his kind of
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: ability to do the job. And so as long as
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: he is doing enough press in traditional sources to kind
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: of relieve that pressure and demonstrate that he's quite capable
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: of doing interviews, including very hard-hitting interviews, print, television, I
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: don't think it matters.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: I think that's the distinction. It's less like traditional versus
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: non-traditional than... tough questions versus all softballs for the whole campaign. Right.
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think if you have something big that
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: you want to roll out to kind of an elite audience, right?
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: If you signed a Middle East peace deal, absolutely. Sit
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: down with the New York Times.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: Let's get them on Hot Ones. Let's get them on
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: Hot Ones.
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: Conan's interview really set a high bar. But I mean,
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: I just like sitting down for a 45 minute interview
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: with the Times or another print publication to just get
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: the shit kicked out of you.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: You might as well do a press conference. Three days
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: of stories.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: Three days of stories. I also... NBC, in their latest
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: poll today, they just ran a story, they broke out
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: which candidate is preferred based on news consumption. Biden's biggest
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: advantage over Trump is with voters who get their news
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: from newspapers, 70% are for Biden versus 21% for Trump.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: And then he also has a big advantage with voters
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: who get their news from network news and from digital websites.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: His biggest deficit with voters is voters who don't follow
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: political news. Trump leads those voters 53% to 27%. People
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: who get their news from YouTube and Google, it's 55-39 Trump. Cable, 53-45.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Social media, 46-42. A little closer on those two.
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, there's a long story in Politico about
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: this fight between the Times and the Biden people. But
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: the part that matters is this weird background quote that said, A.G. Salzberger,
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: the the publisher, is mad that Biden hasn't done an
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: interview and therefore is quietly encouraging all his reporters to
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: write meaner stories about Biden's age. And I read that
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: and my reaction was, wow, that's a dumb thing to say.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: So dumb.
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: Even on background. But also, I kind of doubt that
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: it's true. And I reached out to some former Times
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: people and they're like, that's not how the building works
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: in my experience. Like maybe there's senior editors like passing
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: around notes that the journalists themselves don't hear about, but.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: I doubt it.
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: So I think it was a dumb quote to give.
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: And then it was very weird that The Times escalated
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: it by putting out a statement on the record attacking
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: Joe Biden again. And again, it's like your media outlet,
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: partisan political actors put out statements attacking each other. So
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: don't do that.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: That's very weird. Very strange.
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: The whole thing was just odd.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: You'll all share a cell if Trump wins.
• 10:45
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Everybody should be nice to each other.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: That is very true.
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: And big picture, like, you know, it's not good for Democrats,
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: I think, to run down the credibility of the media generally.
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: I'm not saying that's what the Biden people were doing, but,
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: you know, there's a lot of that online these days.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Two things can be true. Like, I think the Times
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: is great and I don't think it's their job to
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: save democracy. But I also think that from a campaign perspective,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: when you're figuring out strategy and where your candidate's going
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: to go, like, You get to choose which interviews they
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: do and don't do. And you got to do it
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: in the way that's smart for your campaign and is
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: going to make it most successful. Yeah.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, the only the only thing that I still
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: I feel like is just truly an unknown is like,
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: what is the translation? Like, OK, a lot of people
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: aren't going to see there. No one's going to see
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: the Politico story about the Times being furious at the
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: Biden administration. That's for nobody. It's a really small group
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: of people. Biden does a television interview. Mostly people that
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: support him are the people that are going to see it.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Biden does a print interview, even fewer people that don't
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: support him are going to see it. But I still
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: think there is this effect, right? That like the coverage
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: in these places filters down into the conversations people have.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: It filters down into how he's covered, how it affects,
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: what ends up on TikTok, what ends up on YouTube,
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: what ends up in people's text chains, in people's conversation,
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: what questions Howard Stern asks, what questions the smart list
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: guys ask, because those guys are paying attention. And so
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: like that kind of like trickle down, I don't totally understand.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: I don't think anybody fully understands how much of that
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: is still working because that used to be whatever, like
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: that was always the assumption. And now I don't know.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: Well, biggest news out of the Howard Stern interview was
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Biden saying he'd be happy to debate Trump and expects
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: to at some point. This made Trump and his campaign
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: quite happy. Apparently, Chris Lasavita, Trump's top aide, was at
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: the correspondence dinner handing out business cards with Biden's debate
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: quote from Stern. And then on the other side had
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: a Trump quote was Trump's response to this was anywhere, anytime, anyplace.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: And then it said, let's set it up. And there
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: was an email for the Trump press office, I guess.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: Got him. Yeah. Sounds like they're pretty eager to debate.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: Should they be? Yeah.
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: Well, it's funny. We've kind of memory hold the fact
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: that the last time they debated, Donald Trump had gotten
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: a positive COVID diagnosis three days earlier and nearly gave
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: it to Joe Biden on stage and maybe could have
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: killed him.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: It's funny how we sort of forgot about that.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: Biden killed the debate. Trump almost killed Biden.
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think the interesting thing about this debate
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: is normally you have a challenger coming in that has
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: just done a ton of reps because they were in
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: a primary process and they were debating, debating, debating. So
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: they're really like poised and ready for the fight. And
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: you have an incumbent president who has not been debating
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: and in fact is used to people standing up when
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: they walk into the room and not getting a lot
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: of pushback. This time, Trump skipped all the primary debates.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: So he's going to be just as rusty as Joe Biden.
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: So the whole thing Broadly makes me nervous because the
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: stakes are just going to be through the roof on this.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Debate if it happens.
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: But again, like much like the State of the Union,
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: the Trump folks are giving Biden an expectations advantage by
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: accusing him of having dementia every day.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: Just going out on a limb, I don't think the
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Biden campaign is going to have trouble lowering expectations.
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: No, they're low.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: They're low. They're pretty low.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That debate, too, even before we knew that Trump
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: was trying to kill Joe Biden, was the worst debate.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: any of us have ever seen. It was a monstrous
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: and disappointing display that made everyone quite sad while having
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: really not that much of an impact on the race.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: So I expect something like that is probably where we're heading.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: That's the media. I don't know what's above or below that.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: I do think that the Biden folks are going to
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: want to leave it to the commission and get out
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: of these potential one-on-one negotiations with the Trump campaign who
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: are going to ask for a hundred debates and Trump's
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: going to start asking for his own favorite moderators. And,
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: you know, you don't want the whole thing to turn
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: into an episode of The Apprentice. So now there's a
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: commission for this. You send it to the commission. You
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: do your normal number of debates. And that's that. Because
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: you can tell that Trump is just like chomping at
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: the bit to turn this into a big show where
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: it's like a debate every week. Yeah, it's a lot
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: of bravado, though.
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: But I'm sure then he'll come back around with, but
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: only these moderators are acceptable. And it's like Tucker and
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: Sean Hannity and Don Jr.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: I think assuming if you... compromises ed henry i mean
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: even before you get to it whatever he wants to
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: acquire he knows the show's the show's not whatever the
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: show yeah sure he'd want the biggest show possible but
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: even before that what he wants is every conversation about
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: what the debates will look like is a story of
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: trump wanting to debate and him pulling joe biden to
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: those strong weeks and the biden campaign can't have that
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: either that's the show right that's the show the debates
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: are three days in october that show can happen for
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: the next several months.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah well until until the you know, both campaigns agreed
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: that the commission's going to do what they've done for
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: the last however many years. Like, that's the only thing
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: the Biden campaign can say, right? Like, they can't take
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: the bait on this and be like, yeah, no, okay,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: we'll do whatever you want. We'll meet you anytime, anywhere.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: No, of course not. Of course not. But that's just
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: what this is, right?
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaking of the White House Correspondents Center, Joe Biden
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: and SNL's Colin Jost both told, I think, some really
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: funny jokes. Let's listen to a few. Here's some of Biden's.
• 15:46
  Speaker 8: The 2024 election is in full swing. And yes, age
• 15:50
  Speaker 8: is an issue. I'm a grown man running against a six-year-old.
• 15:56
  Speaker 8: The New York Times issued a statement blasting me for, quote,
• 16:00
  Speaker 8: active and effectively avoiding independent journalists. Hey, if that's what
• 16:05
  Speaker 8: it takes to get the New York Times to say
• 16:07
  Speaker 8: I'm active and effective, I'm for it. I had a
• 16:09
  Speaker 8: great stretch since the State of the Union. Well, Donald
• 16:13
  Speaker 8: has had a few tough days lately. You might call
• 16:16
  Speaker 8: it stormy weather.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: What the hell?
• 16:23
  Speaker 8: Eight years ago, you could have written off it as
• 16:26
  Speaker 8: just Trump talk, but no longer, not after January 6th.
• 16:32
  Speaker 8: I'm sincerely not asking of you to take sides, but
• 16:35
  Speaker 8: asking to rise up to the seriousness of the moment.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: Honestly, the what the hell?
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: The what the hell is my favorite part of the whole,
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: what the hell?
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: It's the funniest part. It's the funniest part.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: What the hell is really funny.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: That is actually though the, I think that's the right
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: way to approach humor and For this race. And Biden
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: did this in 2020. I think he did it during
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: that debate at one point was just like, shut up.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: He said something to Trump like, what is this? What's
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: going on with this guy? Yeah. Like, yeah, there is
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: an absurdity around this whole. Yeah. I think that Biden
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: can can make fun of.
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: But his speeches are so short for these things. That
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: was like 10 minutes.
• 17:08
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It was very short. It was mostly serious. He
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: does a few jokes at the top and then he
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: gets to the serious part.
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: I think that's why it's like a half dozen jokes
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: and he gets right to it.
• 17:16
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: I like the serious part. I like the praising of Collins.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: He did a whole nice thing about Colin Jost's family,
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: which I thought was very, very good for Biden. I
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: liked the, I thought it was a good imposition to
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: the journalists.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: The New York Times joke was funny.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: He could have gotten too snippy and instead he sort
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: of made fun of himself a little bit there.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: I was actually like, I was genuinely surprised by how
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: well that joke did. I really, I was actually like,
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: the crowd really liked it. And I, we've sort of,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: you know, over the years, like I think, we've come
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: to learn that that audience is less keyed in than
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: you'd expect a lot of the time, but not on
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: journalism stuff. They were, that room was completely fully aware.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: Of the fight. They read the Politico story and then
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: the responding New York Times statement to the Politico story
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: and then the Puck story about how the Politico story
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: happened with the New York Times.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they were all ready. They were ready for that joke.
• 18:06
  Speaker 5: I was surprised.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: They digested it all.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: I was surprised.
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: And they tend to be very sensitive to anything media related.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: That is also true. That is also true. All right,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: here's some of the jokes from Colin Jester.
• 18:15
  Speaker 9: I have to, I have to admit it's not easy
• 18:17
  Speaker 9: following president Biden. I mean, it's not always easy following
• 18:20
  Speaker 9: what he's saying. Can we just acknowledge how refreshing it
• 18:24
  Speaker 9: is to see a president of the United States at
• 18:27
  Speaker 9: an event that doesn't begin with a bailiff saying all rise.
• 18:31
  Speaker 9: It's also wonderful to be back in Washington. I love
• 18:33
  Speaker 9: being in Washington. The last time I was in DC,
• 18:36
  Speaker 9: I left my cocaine at the white house. Luckily the
• 18:42
  Speaker 9: president was able to put it to good use for
• 18:44
  Speaker 9: a state of the union. I lost my grandfather this year,
• 18:49
  Speaker 9: as you alluded to, a firefighter, William Kelly. And I swear, Mr. President,
• 18:56
  Speaker 9: this is not an age comparison. You remind me of him.
• 19:02
  Speaker 9: Some of your best qualities remind me of his. And
• 19:07
  Speaker 9: I will say he was 95 and he was still
• 19:09
  Speaker 9: great at stairs. I think it's because he didn't try
• 19:17
  Speaker 9: to run up them. He voted for you, and the
• 19:25
  Speaker 9: reason that he voted for you is because you're a
• 19:28
  Speaker 9: decent man.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: Bring that guy on the road. Yeah, I like that.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: I really like that.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: That was a nice little endorsement.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know there was like, I guess the Times...
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: just unhappy with everyone on that day wrote a piece
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: saying they didn't think he was a success I thought
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: I think that he.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: Times with that piece and then like every Biden White
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: House official wrote back and be like he was the
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: funniest person ever and I'm like oh now this is
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: a thing?
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: It's Biden-Jost 2024. But I thought the, I think that
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: like the first half, like there were good jokes, but
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: they were kind of, it was like, I think he
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: took a while to ramp up, but that second half
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: I thought was just like really excellent. And that, like,
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: I do think like if there's any value to that dinner,
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: In terms of like the like the like beseeching the
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: press that the president and then what Colin Jost did
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: is that in some small way, I think like reminding
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: them that even even the ones that I think don't
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: believe it is their job to save democracy for Joe Biden,
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: reminding them that like their actual values and morals are
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: at stake and they are aware of them, even if
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: they try to push them aside. I like I just
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: I appreciate that whether it's effective or not. I don't know.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: I appreciate it.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not their job to save democracy. It is
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: their job to take this whole thing seriously and not
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: treat it completely as a game all the time. I
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: think that's a fair criticism.
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a nice ending from Colin Jost. It
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: was a bit of an endorsement vibe, which doesn't help
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: the kind of clubby liberal bias in the media sentiment
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: that's out there.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: I'll take anything at this point.
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: I mean, I thought Colin Jost did a pretty good
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: job of being hard on both of them and making
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: fun of both of them. And Biden, to his credit,
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: laughed and took it.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: He did. He did. He left a lot. Two quick
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: housekeeping notes. Some very exciting news from our friends at
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: Strict Scrutiny, Cricket's excellent legal podcast. The show just launched
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: its own YouTube channel. To subscribe, just type Strict Scrutiny
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: into your nearest YouTube search bar and tune in for
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: new episodes every Monday. Also, if you need a break
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: from the political chaos, treat yourself to some completely different
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: political chaos over on Pod Save the UK. Each week,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Nish Kumar and Coco Khan are joined by politicians and
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: experts to unpack the latest news out of Parliament. New
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: episodes drop every Thursday. Make sure to follow wherever you
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: get your podcasts. On to a topic that's less fun
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: but more important. The college protests over the war in Gaza.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: After the president of Columbia University testified before Congress... and
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: then called the police on April 18th to clear out
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: an encampment of pro-Palestinian protesters that led to more than
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: 100 arrests. Dozens of protests and encampments have sprung up
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: at colleges all across the country. Many of the protesters
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: have been peaceful and respectful. Some of the protesters have not.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: Many schools have allowed the protests to continue. Some have not.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: There have been more than 800 arrests so far, a
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: mix of students and non-students. Some police have used excessive
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: force to break up the protests. Some colleges have suspended
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: students and threatened expulsion. And now politicians in both parties
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: are getting involved. President Biden has condemned both, quote, anti-Semitic
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: protests and, quote, those who don't understand what's going on
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: with the Palestinians. The White House also condemned one of
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: the student protest leaders at Columbia who called for Zionists
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: to die and has since been suspended. Donald Trump posted
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: an all caps truth on Monday that said, stop the
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: protests now. Easy, done. Speaker Mike Johnson held an event
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: at Columbia with other House Republicans last week where they
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: called on Biden to send in the National Guard and
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: threatened to pull federal funding from colleges that won't stop
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: the protests. Progressive Democrats like AOC and Jamal Bowman have
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: visited the protesters in solidarity, while 21 other Democrats just
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: sent a letter to Columbia demanding that they break up
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: the protests. which they are currently trying to do. Basically,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: huge mess. Tommy, I thought you and Ben did a
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: great job last week on Pod Save the World talking
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: about what's going on with these protests. I would encourage
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: everyone to listen. I thought we could talk a bit
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: about how they're affecting national politics. Here's the latest headline
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: in the Washington Post. Trump GOP sees on-campus protests to
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: depict chaos under Biden. What's your take on that? And
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: what do you guys think is the best way for
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: Biden and Democrats to handle all this?
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: I mean, I do think the chaos message from Trump
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: about Biden is a little bit of a Mad Libs
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: at this point. You know, it's usually it's the border.
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: Sometimes it's just liberal cities generally.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: Just cities being cities. Yeah. So, you know.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: Somebody stole Schiff's bags out of his car. No. I
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: literally saw it because I watched a Sean Hannity clip.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: That's the only reason I found out. My feed wouldn't
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: tell me that.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: Lock your car, shifty ship.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: I think.
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: Trump is right to think that any issue that divides
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: the Democratic Party or suppresses Democratic votes could be beneficial
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: to him. I don't know if that's happening right now.
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: I mean, I suspect a lot of the protesters, at
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: least at the New York schools, aren't necessarily Democrats. A
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: lot of people don't, you know, they don't affiliate, not
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: affiliated with the party or they're in the DSA. Certainly
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: they're part of the Democratic coalition that you'd like to
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: see turn out for Joe Biden. defeat Donald Trump. It's
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: also not really clear to me if this issue is
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: broken through to the country more broadly. I think if
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: you're a Fox News consumer, you are probably marinating in
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: this feeling that campuses are overrun and Hamas is protesting
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: in Colombia or whatever. But I do think Biden has been,
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: I think it's right to condemn anti-Semitism where it's popping
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: up and when it's been egregious, but you have to
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: be really, really careful, I think, not to cross the
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: line into a bridging free speech, which is why, you know,
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: Speaker Johnson going up to Columbia to kind of demagogue
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: what's happening makes me really nervous. It's why Democrats sending
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: that letter to the president of Columbia makes me nervous
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: because there is a very fraught debate about where anti-Zionism
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: constitute anti-Semitism that we can get into more if we
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: want here. So I think like bigger picture for me
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: from a political perspective is What makes me far more
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: nervous is the prospect of this war continuing for months
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: and months and months through the conventions, through the election
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: and not campus protests in April from a political sense.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, denounce anti-Semitism and violence, defend the
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: right to peacefully protest, point out that all of these
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: Republicans spent years denouncing snowflakes and trigger warnings, but are
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: now cynically inserting themselves into campus rules and procedures of
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: private Northeastern universities and in order to soak chaos and
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: shut down speech that they don't like.
• 26:06
  Speaker 7: I'll be pointing that out.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: And then it's like, should Columbia students be suspended after
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: two warnings or three? What is the line between anti-Zionism
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: and anti-Semitism? What is the speaker's lineup at the USC commencement?
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: These are important questions for some people. They are not
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: important questions for the Speaker of the House. They're not
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: important questions for national politics. And they are ultimately a
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: distraction and a distraction with purpose. It's such a classic us.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: It's like there is a devastating and awful war taking
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: place in Gaza. I am sure that I disagree with
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: a lot of the larger goals of many, if not
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: most of the students on those campuses, but they have
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: been very successful at drawing attention to what is an
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: urgent international crisis. They have done it. With bravery, they've
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: put themselves at risk. They may pay for that risk.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: It seems like when you put yourself in a position
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: to draw attention by breaking rules, you will also draw
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: attention when those rules are enforced, which seems to me
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: ought to be the goal from the very beginning. Most
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: Democrats agree that there is an urgent need for there
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: to be a ceasefire. Most have said that even if
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: you believe Israel has a right to defend itself, that
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: it is right to be critical about the inhumane way
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: in which Israel has conducted this war. And I think
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: any way in which you can just call out The
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: Republican kind of cynicism on this while being unabashed in
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: asserting your position, denouncing anti-Semitism while defending the right to protest,
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: I think is a fine place to be without getting
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: dragged into the muck that these Republicans want to drag
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: us into.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: They're so opportunistic on this. It's so cynical. I mean,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: it's like they don't. They don't believe in free speech.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: They believe in right-wing free speech. They don't believe in
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: speaking out against anti-Semitism. They believe in speaking out against
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: left-wing anti-Semitism, right? When it comes from the right. Trump
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: was out there over the weekend. Forgot about this. It's
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: called Charlottesville. A little peanut. Weird thing to say. I
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: think he meant small peanuts compared to this. But he
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: said it's nothing compared to the kind of hate you
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: have here. Charlottesville. Literal Nazis. Literal Nazis. Woman was killed.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: Woman was killed, right? Greg Abbott in Texas. He just
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: sent in police, committed all kinds of excessive violence and
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: excessive force. And he only did it. And he basically
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: said he only did it because he didn't believe in
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: what the protesters. It wasn't about how they were protesting.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: It's about why they were protesting. Right. That's what Greg
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Abbott did. Right. So I think the Republicans are bullshit.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: I think as a Democrat, you're right. Like you have
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: to stand up for the right to protest and the
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: right to free speech. And especially, like you said, the
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: most important thing is there is a horrific war in Gaza.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: And if you believe that the war should end and
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: you're not getting anywhere right near congressmen or posted about it, like, yeah,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: go out and protest. You should. It's good. I do
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: think you also have to speak out against violence, intimidation,
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: threatening behavior. I really think you have to speak out
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: against anti-Semitism, just as you have to speak out against
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: any form of religious, ethnic bigotry. And I do think
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: that either dismissing or minimizing anti-Semitism is the kind that's
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: been seen and heard in some of these protests. Like,
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: it isn't just wrong. It detracts from the more urgently
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: important argument about the Israeli government's conduct in Gaza. Because
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: I do think there is this tendency to be like, obviously,
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: anti-Semitism is bad, but, right? And then you just sort
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: of like pass over it. And when you really look like,
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: we don't have to quantify how much, what percentage it
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: is or whatever else. Like, it could be just a
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: small group, whatever it is. When you see it, you
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: call it out. It's bad. It's horrific. It's garbage.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: Well, I think the issue, right?
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: I think what happens is- And some of it is,
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: and you're right, the anti-Zionism, anti-Semitism line is thin here,
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: but Jews go back to Poland, that's pretty clear.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: Yes. I think the reason, I think what you see, right,
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: is this desire to say that, but is a desire
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: to identify yourself, not just with your own views or
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: the views of the protests you agree with, but with
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: the protests themselves. But like, there's always going to be,
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: a protest is always going to represent a vast array
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: of different views. And again, like, even if you disagree
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: with the vast majority of the larger, like, even if you,
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: the proximate cause of these protests is the war in Gaza,
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: but the BDS movement long precedes it and is not
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: just about attacking, right? Like at Yale, they're calling for
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: divestment from companies directly profiting off the war. But a
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: lot of these protests are calling for larger divestments that
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: really are meant to attack the legitimacy of Israel itself.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: A lot of people find that abhorrent. A lot of
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: people disagree with that strongly. I disagree with that, right?
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: But I still think you can say- But they wanna
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: do it. If that's what they believe, that's what they believe.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: Where I agree with these protests is that they are
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: doing something brave to call attention to what is the
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: current emergency- which is doing whatever we can to push
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: the administration and to push for a ceasefire, which is
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: what the actual crisis is. The crisis is not the
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: performance of our feelings or desires or politics in the
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: United States. It is all about a real and ongoing
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: struggle and war.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: I will say this though, the guy who was one
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: of the leaders of the encampment in Columbia, one of
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: the students who was leading the protest in January, Is
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: it a disciplinary meeting where he says, you're lucky I'm
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: not out there murdering Zionists. You're lucky I'm not just
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: killing them. And then that was in January. And then
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: the video got resurfaced by some right wing asshole.
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: Which is how we all know about it. But like what?
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: They didn't they didn't feel the need to discipline him then.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: And like he still was the leader of the movement.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: Like that's that's just bad. It's just bad. It's not
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: about divestment. Like that's all totally legitimate, even if you
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: disagree with it. That's bullshit. That shouldn't have been the
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: protest leader.
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: Well, you need clear rules of the road on policy.
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: These schools need clear rules of the road and policies,
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: and they need to enforce them equally, no matter who
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: is the speaker, no matter what the circumstances. The broader
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: challenge for protest movements and social movements like this is
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: you have a core goal, which is to end the
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: war in Gaza. And you have this huge movement of
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: people with different views and differing perspectives. And some are
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: more maximalist, some are more scoped. Inevitably, the conversation is
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: going to become about the tactics or offensive things being said.
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: And the question always is, if you're part of this movement,
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: how do you keep the focus on that core goal,
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: which is getting to a permanent ceasefire, getting a negotiated
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: hostage release and.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: Ending the war in Gaza, right?
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: And so I do think that's incumbent on everyone who's
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: at the protests to make sure whatever you're doing is
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: advancing that core goal. But it's also kind of the
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: risk inherent in the the broader process.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: Well, and it requires incredible discipline and it also requires
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: like letting go of the fiction that you can control,
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: like you said, everyone in the movement, right? Because there's
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: a lot of leaders in there who are probably like, yeah,
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: of course, this is the right message. This is the
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: best effective tactic. And then you have like a couple
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: people who either join from outside or join from the
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: campus who, you know, say something stupid and say something
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: horrible and anti-Semitic and then that gets lifted up and
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: it sucks. Yeah, I'd say it.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: First of all, the flip side of Republicans spending years
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: calling Libs snowflakes and then calling for protests to be
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: shut down is campuses reacting to anti-Semitism differently than they
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: react to other kinds of hate. And that is, I think,
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: when you have a student saying something like that and
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: there are not being consequences until it becomes an embarrassing
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: public spectacle, I think that tells you something about not
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: having policies that are clearly enforced. But I also think
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: this is in many ways an unsolvable problem that will
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: be with us. I am sure... That if we had
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: the kind of social media we have now when there
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: were anti-war protests that, again, were completely justified and in
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: hindsight prescient when George W. Bush was invading Iraq, we
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: would find despicable views among those protests. We did find
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: despicable views among those protests. But now it would be everywhere.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: And it would have been used if we had TikTok
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: and Instagram and Twitter and social media that we have
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: now when those protests were going on. It would have
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: been used to delegitimize what was ultimately a righteous protest
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: movement against that war. And like, I don't know what
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: the answer is, but like.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: I would say that this is an interesting one where
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: I think the public opinion, the tied public opinion against
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: the war in Gaza turned long before these latest protests.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, the inciting incident for what we're talking about
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: now was this April 18th, Columbia University president goes to Congress, testifies,
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: has the police come, and then suddenly there are these
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: solidarity protests all over the place. So this is an
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: interesting one where the public opinion changes first because I
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: think some of the very brave reporting about what was
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: happening on the ground in Gaza, and that probably, I think,
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: shaped public opinion more than these protests.
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, look, this is a very familiar problem.
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: In 1968, anti-war movements at Columbia University had people chanting
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: in support of the Viet Cong, right? So there will
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: always be views expressed at protests that we don't agree with.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: And by the way, there will always be 20-year-old idiots protesting.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: who deserve the chance to grow as well.
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: Or 80-year-old idiots. I think what we're seeing, though, I
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: think is the result of a festering problem that no
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: one can figure out how to make go away, which
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: is the war in Gaza. And it's like, I don't know,
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: people are... Day after day, when you're seeing reports of
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: another hundred, another thousand people died, and it feels like
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: the government isn't doing enough to stop this war, people
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: are going to take increasingly drastic action.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: And also, if you feel that way, and you... we'll
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: see news coverage. That's all about like protests and how
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: they're going wrong. It's going to make you angrier, rightly so. Right.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: Because like, it was like, we, you know, we haven't
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: talked about this yet, but like the, the real issue
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: is the war. It's not these protests, but the, but
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: it's going to, this is what, this is what happens
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: in politics. And now that all the politicians are involved,
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: it's become.
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: A bigger, my initial reaction when reading about the protests was,
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: I just felt like, okay, like credit to the protesters.
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: I support you.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: I support your goal.
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: I wonder if sit-in on campus is the most effective
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: way to raise awareness about the concern. Like, why not go,
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: you know, stage a sit-in in Congress or go to
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: the White House? You know, that was sort of like
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: my initial instinct. But now, because these universities cracked down
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: on these kids so hard and the arrests were so
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: brutal and unnecessary, the protests have spread and it's increasing
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: solidarity and you're seeing more of it. And now it
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: is this nationwide story. So it has been effective.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: And by the way, And just in terms of what
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: the impact is of the conduct of the war on
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: our politics, you now have people that are horrified by
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: the way they see unfolding in Gaza being drawn into
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: a movement that isn't just about ending this conflict, but
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: about attacking the larger legitimacy of Israel as a state, right?
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: That is, I think, like a dangerous ramification of people
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: rightfully seeing this unfold and thinking something has gone terribly
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: wrong and wanting the Biden administration to do more, wanting
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: this to end. feeling like they're helpless or feeling like
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: they want to have some voice in it.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: Finally, before we go, quite a few Republican politicians proved
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: over the weekend that their party is just as weird
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: and cultish as ever. Some beclowned themselves when they were
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: asked how they squared their past criticism of Trump with
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: their current support for the guy. And one of Trump's
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: potential running mates is making an unusual pitch for herself.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: Here's Bill Barr, Lindsey Graham, Mitch McConnell, and a story
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: about Kristi Noem.
• 37:31
  Speaker 7: I actually don't remember him saying executing, but I wouldn't
• 37:34
  Speaker 7: dispute it. I mean, it doesn't sound... The president would
• 37:38
  Speaker 7: lose his temper and say things like that. I doubt
• 37:41
  Speaker 7: he would have actually carried it out.
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: You're going to vote for someone who is facing 88
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: criminal counts. Well, look.
• 37:49
  Speaker 7: The 88 criminal counts, a lot of those are, and.
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: I've said- Even if 10 of them are accurate?
• 37:57
  Speaker 7: The answer to your question is yes. I'm supporting the
• 38:00
  Speaker 7: Republican ticket.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: David Pecker, who ran the National Enquirer's parent company, testified
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: that he paid to catch and kill stories about Trump,
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: specifically to help his presidential campaign.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: You don't have any concerns about that?
• 38:16
  Speaker 6: You know, apparently a lot of people do this.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: Arnold Schwarzenegger, Tiger Woods. No, I think the whole thing
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: is a crock.
• 38:24
  Speaker 5: The issue is what kind of influence, even if I
• 38:27
  Speaker 5: had chosen to get involved in the presidential election, what
• 38:29
  Speaker 5: kind of influence would I have had? You're one of
• 38:31
  Speaker 5: the most powerful Republicans. I'm the Republican leader of the Senate.
• 38:35
  Speaker 5: What we do here is try to make law. I
• 38:38
  Speaker 5: like us to be in the majority.
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: This morning, South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem, considered to be
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: in the running to become former President Trump's pick for
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: vice president, is responding to the backlash over a story
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: in her upcoming memoir. In the book, Noem says she
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: shot and killed her 14-month-old puppy named Cricket for bad behavior.
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: Conservative media personality Laura Loomer saying she can't be VP now.
• 39:03
  Speaker 4: You can't shoot your dog and then be VP.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: Hard to argue that an unapologetic puppy killer safe to
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: say she's off the short list guys.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: You guys just don't know what it's like to live
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: on a farm it's just you gotta kill puppies they're
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: always killing puppies you ever read charlotte's web that dot
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: that most of that book is about killing puppies.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: Old yeller he got it He's old.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: It's in the name.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, what's amazing about this.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: Thank you, John.
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: This didn't come out because of some investigative journalist pouring
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: through her life. She wrote it in her own book.
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: That's... Yeah.
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: That is the amazing part.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: That's why the whole you don't know what it's like
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: to live on a farm thing is just... That has
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: nothing to do with anything. You bragged about it.
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: Hillary Clinton wrote a book called Hard Choices that was
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: about negotiating with North Korea and shit. This woman thinks
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: that her.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, when Hillary Clinton kills a dog, she keeps it
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: to her fucking self.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: That's the difference. Because she gets politics. That's the difference.
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: Kristi Noem thinks her medal is proven by murdering a
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: puppy and then was so inspired by the results that
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: she went and got a goat she hated and shot
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: the goat, but missed the first time and had to
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: walk back to her car to get another shotgun shell
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: to shoot the goat again. You're not even a good shot.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: You're psycho. This is some John Wick shit. It's really bad. Also,
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: I mean.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: I would say this.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: It has not been a good week for Kristi Noem.
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: That the combination of basically saying that she doesn't believe
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: in exceptions for rape and incest, followed by saying she
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: murdered a puppy for not being good at killing birds
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: one day and then being too good at killing birds
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: the next day. That's the other piece of this. So
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: the dog wasn't good on a pheasant hunt.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: Wouldn't hunt.
• 40:45
  Speaker 9: Right.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: Right. Then the next day tried to kill some chickens.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: Maybe it was trying, you know? Right. It was confused.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: Give it a chance.
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: Michelle Vick.
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: Michelle Vick. I did like that.
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: In the arms of an asshole.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: I went with that too. You've been churning out some
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: great content on this, Tommy.
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: It's some content.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: In the war between the Dakotas for who's going to
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: get the nod from Trump, Doug Burgum now, North Dakota
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: is just, is now edging out South Dakota because apparently
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: Doug Burgum is climbing up the list for Trump shortlist
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: because I guess he's boring, loyal, and absurdly rich.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: And Trump needs money. He can write a big check
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: to himself. Yeah. Who would have thought that was coming?
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: Doug Burgum over Kristi Noem. He's perfectly boring. I would
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: not have guessed that. I would not have guessed that.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: Say that dog don't hunt.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: That dog don't?
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: That dog don't hunt. That dog don't hunt.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: Dog don't hunt.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: That dog don't hunt.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: Okay. I do think it's dead because she murdered it
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: in a ditch.
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: She didn't kill it.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: Dead in a ditch.
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: In front of some construction workers.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: She said too, which is, the whole story is very weird.
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: The other quotes from those people are Graham, Barr, et cetera.
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: That is like the kind of mindless partisanship that people
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: actually hate more than anything in this country, I think.
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, well, you know, I'm supporting the Republican nominee.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: That's like the closest you get to just like state
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: TV propaganda kind of shit. Like communist. It was just,
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: it was, it's listening to Bill Barr being like, the
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: answer is I support him.
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: The answer is I support the Republican nominee.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: And then Mitch McConnell. What kind of influence do I have?
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: I'm only the leader of the Senate.
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: Who could have impeached.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: The Republican leader of the Senate.
• 42:20
  Speaker 5: Wild.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: And then just like Lindsey Graham being like, I think
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: Tiger Woods fucked somebody once. Nobody's talking about that. You're right, Lindsey.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: What an important point.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: Also, Ron DeSantis. Remember Ron DeSantis? Yeah, they could have
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: done it. You know, all these people, if you kiss
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: the ring, then Trump likes you. It doesn't matter how
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: awful you are as a Republican. If you go kiss
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: the ring, they like you. Well, he wouldn't kiss the ring.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: He met with Donald Trump over the weekend. Donald Trump
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: just truth before we started recording. He's happy to have
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis' endorsement. Everything's all good with him. So there
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: goes Ron DeSantis.
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: Speaking of state TV, I mean, we talked about this
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: a little bit last week, but all the revelations that
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: have come out in the hush money trial about the
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: way the Trump orbit worked with the national inquirer to
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: not just catch and kill stories, but also fabricate and
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: place articles about his rivals is really incredible. Like Ted
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: Cruz has five mistresses. Like no one would have believed that,
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: but it's, it works, right? Like it sticks with you.
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: Propaganda like that sticks with you. It works.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: It has an impact.
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: You have to respond to it. And I just can't
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: even imagine what it would be like to be running
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: a campaign and have like a, house media outlet like.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: That i know i i said this to dan and
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: he was like he had he had a good retort
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: which is like uh fox news i guess they have
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: fox news yeah but not like that that's what this
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: is even more way different this was like gonna call
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: you up you're gonna place the story or like here
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: i'll pay you off to kill this bad story.
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: About glad they're not better at it because i think
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: it is not plausible to believe that there are six
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: people on earth that would fuck ted cruz that is.
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: True but i mean as we learned you know fox
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: does have to be worried about libel You know, they
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: got sued and they lost. And I mean, just manufacturing
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: stuff like this is incredible, incredible weapon to have.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: We talked about Joe Biden's comedic chops today. I do
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: want to give Donald Trump his due because on that
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: Bill Barr interview, during that Bill Barr interview, Caitlin Collins
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: also read to him Trump's truth where he accepted Bill
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: Barr's quasi endorsement. And so this was the truth. Barr
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: has endorsed me for president despite the fact that I
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: called him weak, slow-moving, lethargic, gutless, and lazy. Based on
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: the fact that I greatly appreciate his wholehearted endorsement, I
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: am removing the word lethargic from my statement. Thank you, Bill.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: That's really funny. Right? That's really funny.
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: It's just funny.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: That's just really funny.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: Beating puppies. And then she reads that to Barr, and
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: then he laughs, and he goes, classic Trump. Classic Trump.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: Zero soft respect. Talking about how he wants to execute people.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: Trying to overturn the election. I'm in.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: It really is just the way these people will give
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: up their dignity for some political gain or access or
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: maybe some ability to get some job as a lobbyist.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: It really is just like, you need therapy. You need
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: to understand what the values and important things in life are.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: You need to get in touch with those people. But
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: I don't think these people can be saved. I don't
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: think Lindsey Graham can be saved. I don't think any
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: of these people can be saved.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: No, they just, they just like being in politics too much.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: And they like the job. They like the power. They
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: like the title, whatever. They like being on TV. I
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: don't know.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: The people that go into politics at a very young
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: age and literally never leave, never get like a couple
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: years in adulthood outside of it to look back. Like,
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: I think I've benefited from having that time for sure.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: Like I, the idea of like having gone, if you
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: go into politics at 17, 18, you know, think about
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: it all through college, go to get your first job.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: You never, ever leave it. Like, I think if you're not,
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: I think plenty of people can do great that way,
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: but there are people that, like, clearly need fucking space
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: from this.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: It's also, even if it's not about themselves and they're just, like,
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: deep believers, you know, like, you can tell Mitch McConnell's like,
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: I just love right-wing judges, right? That's what he loves.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: But it's like, that is the danger of, like, that
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: extreme ideology. It's like, you like your fucking judges so
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: much that you're sitting there being like, man, well, I
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: hated the guy who tried to overturn the election and
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: almost ended democracy, but, look, We're writing laws here. I'm
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: in the majority. I want to get more stuff passed.
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: I also think just your entire existence is built around
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: this one thing, which is your affiliation with the Republican Party.
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: It's all your friends. It's your coworkers. It's your entire
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: peer group. And over time, like in the moment.
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: What? In the moment.
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: In the moment, these guys all knew what Trump did
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: was wrong because we watched them give speeches about it
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: on the Senate floor or comment in the press at
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: the time. But, you know, they just get worn down
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: and they give up after years and years of people
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: being like, come on. Come on sides, just endorse them.
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: And they learned from Trump that there is no longer
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: a penalty for shamelessness in the Republican Party. So they
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: can just, you know, do whatever they do on TV
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: and embarrass themselves. And that's that. All right. That is
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: our show for today. We will be back with another
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: episode on Wednesday. Levitt, I believe you're hosting. Yeah.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: Tim is back.
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: There's a former Republican who's done the right thing.
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we found one. And we made him do pods
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: with us.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: You know what? And it's fun. All right. We'll be
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: back on Wednesday. Bye, everyone. If you want to get
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: ad-free episodes, exclusive content, and more, consider joining our Friends
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: of the Pod subscription community at crooked.com slash friends. And
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: if you're already doom-scrolling, don't forget to follow us at
• 47:24
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• 47:27
  Speaker 1: to full episodes, bonus content, and more. Plus, if you're
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. Our show
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: is produced by Olivia Martinez and David Toledo. Our associate
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: producers are Saul Rubin and Farah Safari. Kira Wakeem is
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: our senior producer. Reed Cherlin is our executive producer. The
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Cantor
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: is our sound engineer with audio support from Kyle Seglin
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: and Charlotte Landis. Writing support by Hallie Kiefer. Madeline Herringer
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: is our head of news and programming. Matt DeGroat is
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: our head of production. Andy Taft is our executive assistant.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: Thanks to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Haley Jones, Mia Kelman,
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: David Tolles, Kiril Pallaviv, and Molly Lobel.