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Decision Fatigue · I Hate Talking

• 0:29
  I Hate Talking: Welcome to episode 21 of I Hate Talking.
• 0:33
  I Hate Talking: Hi everyone.
• 0:35
  I Hate Talking: So we are going to continue our theme of fatigue and similarly to what we discussed in terms of change fatigue last time, we're going to be talking about yet another type of fatigue related to the human psyche, and that is decision fatigue.
• 0:56
  I Hate Talking: Oh man, So what is decision fatigue?
• 1:00
  I Hate Talking: I would, um, I feel like I have it a lot.
• 1:05
  I Hate Talking: It's when you have to think, or how I describe it, is When you just get exhausted from having so many choices, like, Um, even just the amount of choices we make every single day.
• 1:20
  I Hate Talking: From when you wake up to what you put where, what you have for breakfast, when you leave the house, all these little things could really add up and be exhausting.
• 1:33
  I Hate Talking: And then obviously there's like big decisions too, that you have to make within that.
• 1:38
  I Hate Talking: Yep, so there are probably two different things that you're getting at there.
• 1:44
  I Hate Talking: One is truly decision fatigue, and the other thing that you described at the start of that discourse is actually probably more aptly described as paradox of choice or choice overload.
• 1:58
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 2:00
  I Hate Talking: So what's the difference between those two?
• 2:02
  I Hate Talking: So, decision fatigue, similar to change fatigue, is that one becomes fatigued and overwhelmed just by the sheer number.
• 2:12
  I Hate Talking: Of decisions that must be made.
• 2:15
  I Hate Talking: So, for example, you may make a decision for what you need to eat and what you're going to wear and whether you are going to take lunch or go out to lunch and so on and so forth.
• 2:28
  I Hate Talking: And by the end of the day, you have made so many decisions that you are fatigued by all these decisions.
• 2:33
  I Hate Talking: OK?
• 2:34
  I Hate Talking: The paradox of choice, which is also known as choice overload, is when you are encountering a decision that has A number of different options and those number of different options is what is overwhelming you.
• 2:51
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, I mean, possibly, but I think even just like having to decide another thing.
• 2:57
  I Hate Talking: Yes, that would be decision fatigue as you are have yet another decision before you that you must make some sort of decision.
• 3:06
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 3:07
  I Hate Talking: But perhaps right there is a little bit of overlap there.
• 3:11
  I Hate Talking: So similarly to what we discussed with change fatigue, it's not only the number of changes, but also the complexity or unpredictability of said change and similarly maybe if there are complex decisions or they have this aspect of choice overload that that does cause the decisions to become harder and therefore, even though there may be.
• 3:35
  I Hate Talking: Fewer of them, because they are complex decisions, it leads to higher decision fatigue.
• 3:40
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 3:41
  I Hate Talking: So, what can happen when you do encounter decision fatigue is that the quality of your decision may go down, as well as one just becoming overwhelmed with making yet another decision.
• 3:57
  I Hate Talking: And this can cause people to either become drained or Put off the decision or procrastinate making a decision or in some cases right just have paralysis and making a choice at all and they will uh either abdicate their decision making and uh perhaps uh put that on somebody else or they'll make a decision that is not high quality or like I said, just put that off until later.
• 4:26
  I Hate Talking: Right, OK.
• 4:28
  I Hate Talking: So, are there any particular instances where you've encountered decision fatigue and what are those decisions?
• 4:37
  I Hate Talking: Made up of Well, I think this is a um popular topic in the mom sphere, at least um uh mom groups I'm part of.
• 4:49
  I Hate Talking: Um, Because they'll equate it often when moms are just kind of burnt out.
• 4:56
  I Hate Talking: They'll use that phrase.
• 4:58
  I Hate Talking: Well, you just have decision fatigue, to try to um explain maybe that.
• 5:03
  I Hate Talking: Unexplainable feeling of just exhaustion.
• 5:07
  I Hate Talking: It's like maybe we haven't necessarily done much today, but we're so tired.
• 5:13
  I Hate Talking: Our brains are tired.
• 5:15
  I Hate Talking: And I think like I was saying earlier, like, just from what meals to cook, um, what clothing to put on you and the kids, what chores to do, like all these little tiny choices add up in our brain.
• 5:33
  I Hate Talking: Um, so, like, popular recommendations are to have like a menu, um, like a weekly meal schedule.
• 5:45
  I Hate Talking: Thought out ahead of time, so that way when 5 o'clock comes, you're not like, oh.
• 5:52
  I Hate Talking: What do we need to eat for dinner?
• 5:54
  I Hate Talking: You just look at the calendar and say, oh, it's Friday, it's pizza night, or something like that.
• 6:03
  I Hate Talking: Little changes like that can really just take those tiny decisions away and free up Um, our mental space, or free up our, um, even our emotional space to do other stuff.
• 6:19
  I Hate Talking: Precisely, and that actually is interesting that you mentioned food because that is one of the most often cited examples within this topic of decision fatigue is choosing what to eat.
• 6:33
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, that's so hard.
• 6:36
  I Hate Talking: I love all those memes that um will say things about like, I hate waiting for mom to cook dinner, and then I realized I'm the mom and I have to go cook dinner.
• 6:48
  I Hate Talking: Cause I feel that.
• 6:49
  I Hate Talking: I'm like, I just want someone to tell me what to cook and when, and I'll do it.
• 6:54
  I Hate Talking: I don't want to have to be responsible for 3 meals plus snacks, 7 days a week.
• 7:00
  I Hate Talking: Exactly.
• 7:02
  I Hate Talking: So, making decisions on meals and what we are going to eat, perhaps something that is more in the forefront of our mind as we are trying to make decisions in our everyday life.
• 7:14
  I Hate Talking: Uh, it's interesting to note that the American Medical Association actually has some estimates that an average person makes 35,000 decisions per day.
• 7:29
  I Hate Talking: Oh wow.
• 7:30
  I Hate Talking: That sounds intense, but I guess if you're counting, like where they count, like, do I brush my teeth first, or do I wash my face first?
• 7:39
  I Hate Talking: That would be a decision, right?
• 7:42
  I Hate Talking: Would those count?
• 7:43
  I Hate Talking: Yes, those would count, those minute decisions in terms of order of operations or if you're even going to do something, I think they would also count a number of decisions that we make when we are driving.
• 7:56
  I Hate Talking: Am I gonna go in this lane or that lane?
• 7:59
  I Hate Talking: Am I going to use my turn signal or not?
• 8:02
  I Hate Talking: Am I going to Go through the yellow light or slow down and all those tiny micro decisions that we make uh on a daily basis are included in that number.
• 8:14
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 8:14
  I Hate Talking: They also cite that.
• 8:18
  I Hate Talking: Life has become more complicated and that in fact part of things that companies do in order to try to sell us things is to give us more choices and therefore fulfill the niche of a particular consumer so that in fact, you know, we could get a burger with cheese or no cheese or onions or no onions or, you know, we could have it our way, uh, so to speak, that uh that that actually.
• 8:47
  I Hate Talking: Adds to decision fatigue just because there are certain sales cycles that actually will try to increase the number of decisions that we have in order that they can make that sale.
• 9:02
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 9:03
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 9:04
  I Hate Talking: Um, uh, restaurant chain in and out is, um, I've always appreciated it because it's, the question is, you get a burger.
• 9:13
  I Hate Talking: Do you want cheese on it?
• 9:15
  I Hate Talking: And are you hungry enough for like two patties?
• 9:18
  I Hate Talking: And there is like a whole, quote unquote secret menu there that you can add other stuff to it.
• 9:24
  I Hate Talking: But just as a whole, it's, do you want french fries?
• 9:28
  I Hate Talking: Do you want a cheeseburger, hamburger?
• 9:31
  I Hate Talking: Do you want a soda or milkshake?
• 9:34
  I Hate Talking: And those are your choices, and it's just easy and comforting.
• 9:38
  I Hate Talking: And it's nice when you have a group too, because you're not taking a billion orders.
• 9:42
  I Hate Talking: You can just say 4 cheeseburgers with onions.
• 9:45
  I Hate Talking: Indeed, and I think in those simplistic menu choices, I will actually typically get the exact same thing every time.
• 9:53
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, uh, especially in and out cause we don't get it very often.
• 9:57
  I Hate Talking: It's not local for us, but we have our, uh, Many we could tell Instantly what we wanna eat.
• 10:05
  I Hate Talking: Conversely, another popular restaurant that has the opposite is the Cheesecake Factory.
• 10:12
  I Hate Talking: Their menu is pages long.
• 10:15
  I Hate Talking: Uh, so, I know we don't eat there very often, but would you feel like you eat, would have a harder time choosing at the Cheesecake Factory, or would you feel like you would choose something different every time you go?
• 10:30
  I Hate Talking: So I think at a place like that, it would, to some degree depend on uh what diet or what mode of diet I am on.
• 10:40
  I Hate Talking: So I'm sure at some point we will have an episode on the keto diet and other things because we've mentioned it many times, but never got exactly to that particular point.
• 10:51
  I Hate Talking: But nonetheless, I think that in some of those scenarios, I will go to Not even look at all the sections, but I will actually just go straight to a section that has food that I typically will eat.
• 11:06
  I Hate Talking: So perhaps in that instance, either the salad section or the burger section and just limit myself just to those sections and choose within those specific sections.
• 11:18
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 11:19
  I Hate Talking: So the other nuance thing that I think plays a part in terms of maybe how I experience decision fatigue is also not only the number and the complexity of the decision, but also trying to consider how I might impact either positively or negatively, the people that would be affected by the said decision.
• 11:44
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, well, that brings a whole different weight to the Choices that Based on what you're thinking about and who it impacts, is no longer a trivial thing at that point.
• 11:57
  I Hate Talking: Cause there's some decisions that are trivial.
• 12:02
  I Hate Talking: Um, and it won't really impact you necessarily in 10 minutes, but there's other things that will impact.
• 12:10
  I Hate Talking: Generations from now.
• 12:13
  I Hate Talking: Yes, I suppose there could be.
• 12:16
  I Hate Talking: What are you thinking about when you talk about generational impact?
• 12:21
  I Hate Talking: I don't know, you were just saying some of it's weighty, you feel the weight of it.
• 12:25
  I Hate Talking: And I was like, yeah, like, -- I -- don't know, I wasn't thinking of something that weighty.
• 12:29
  I Hate Talking: Well, what were you thinking of?
• 12:32
  I Hate Talking: I was thinking more in terms of, yes, in terms of like a big decision on like relocation to another state or taking another job or but that impacts generations too.
• 12:46
  I Hate Talking: Because our kids are living in a different state than most of them are born in, because you took a different job or because of your job.
• 12:56
  I Hate Talking: And they have friends here, if we went to another state, they would lose those friendships, or they'd only become online or, uh, you know, writing letters or FaceTime.
• 13:07
  I Hate Talking: And so that would impact those relationships and all that.
• 13:13
  I Hate Talking: That is true, and that would impact future generations.
• 13:18
  I Hate Talking: However, those future generations would have no place in the decision making in my mind.
• 13:25
  I Hate Talking: It would only be the existing relationships and the existing people.
• 13:32
  I Hate Talking: I would not really, I think give much or any consideration to theoretical future.
• 13:40
  I Hate Talking: Relationships or people.
• 13:43
  I Hate Talking: That's interesting.
• 13:45
  I Hate Talking: I definitely would because um my, you know, thinking of like where my family grew up and where I grew up, and, you know, like, if you go back for a reunion or whatnot.
• 13:58
  I Hate Talking: Um, my family.
• 14:01
  I Hate Talking: would not likely all come here because we're quite a ways away from all of them.
• 14:07
  I Hate Talking: Uh, I have aunts and cousins and uncles that live in a pretty local area.
• 14:14
  I Hate Talking: To each other I grew up with my family in a different area of the country.
• 14:21
  I Hate Talking: I think it does impact it because my family, My mom's side of the family are from one part of the country, and even though she moved away from there.
• 14:33
  I Hate Talking: Uh, we'd still return back, cause that's where most of her family were.
• 14:38
  I Hate Talking: So for holidays and that sort of thing, we got together.
• 14:41
  I Hate Talking: And even last year, we were able to go back and see our cousins and see, um, you know, my, we call them nieces and nephews, but my cousins' kids, and all that, um, and now they're getting married.
• 14:56
  I Hate Talking: My cousin's daughter was our Flower girl, and we're just about to celebrate 15 years of wedding together, and she's gonna get married the week before our 15th anniversary.
• 15:09
  I Hate Talking: Which is awesome and also crazy that our flower girl is getting married.
• 15:14
  I Hate Talking: But, you know, like, as they have kids, all of those family interactions will be at that location.
• 15:22
  I Hate Talking: We will have to go back there.
• 15:24
  I Hate Talking: So the question would be like, we live here, at least currently, is this where our home base is and our grandkids, great grandkids, great great grandkids come back here for our reunions?
• 15:37
  I Hate Talking: It very well could be, or maybe it won't be.
• 15:41
  I Hate Talking: We do not know at this juncture.
• 15:43
  I Hate Talking: And I think that is.
• 15:45
  I Hate Talking: Probably why I don't give a lot of weight to that is because there are so many variables that would play a part in that aside from a decision that I am attempting to make.
• 15:59
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 15:59
  I Hate Talking: And I think that those are the big weighty decisions in terms of, you know, a job or relocation or uh things of that nature, but I think that in terms of a daily decision making process that The decision fatigue is exponentially or at least multiplied by the number of people that I am considering when I am making that decision.
• 16:31
  I Hate Talking: So for example, if I'm making a decision that is exclusively to Myself, for example, going back to the food example, if I'm going to eat breakfast or just have a cup of coffee that only really impacts myself and therefore would be a relatively easy decision.
• 16:49
  I Hate Talking: But if now you are going to be the one that either has to cook me that breakfast or make that cup of coffee, perhaps I will choose the simpler option so that I can try to save you some time.
• 17:02
  I Hate Talking: And then if we are now considering all the kids and if they're going to eat breakfast, well then maybe it would be actually easier to make a large platter of food and then we would all share that and therefore that would be the easier option.
• 17:17
  I Hate Talking: So a lot of more variables to consider as well as the interest of others when you are adding these things into the decision making process and therefore adding to the decision fatigue.
• 17:29
  I Hate Talking: Right, yeah, that makes sense.
• 17:31
  I Hate Talking: And I think, I wonder, OK, is this part of the decision fatigue or is this routine?
• 17:36
  I Hate Talking: I guess what's the difference between decision fatigue and routine?
• 17:41
  I Hate Talking: Cause as you're giving those examples of food, I'm thinking about even just our little nuclear family, we have some food sensitivities, we have food preferences, and it's not hard for me at lunch to be like, oh this person loves sandwiches, this one really loves salad.
• 17:59
  I Hate Talking: And I'll make a sandwich for him and a salad for him.
• 18:02
  I Hate Talking: So that's a good segue into the last thing that we will talk about in this particular episode in terms of routine actually helping to combat decision fatigue.
• 18:15
  I Hate Talking: So that if you know that there are certain things that people can or cannot eat or are going to be more aptly accepted in terms of their meal for that particular day, that you can make that the plan.
• 18:30
  I Hate Talking: And therefore do not even have to make a decision about that particular thing.
• 18:34
  I Hate Talking: Right, OK, so you'd say that's not.
• 18:36
  I Hate Talking: A decision then.
• 18:38
  I Hate Talking: Like a, um, very tangible example, again, going back to food, maybe we're hungry, I don't know, is one of our kids does not like cheese.
• 18:50
  I Hate Talking: They're not, it's not an allergy or anything, but he doesn't like cheese on anything.
• 18:57
  I Hate Talking: And he can like suss it out, like he can tell instantly that there's cheese on something, even if we try to hide it.
• 19:05
  I Hate Talking: He'll always get a hamburger.
• 19:07
  I Hate Talking: Most of the family will get cheeseburgers, he will always have the hamburger, and I don't even think about it.
• 19:12
  I Hate Talking: It's just such a natural thing.
• 19:13
  I Hate Talking: Or if I'm making a sandwich, there's never cheese on his sandwich.
• 19:16
  I Hate Talking: But I have to tell other people, specifically, like, no cheese on that, please.
• 19:22
  I Hate Talking: And then that then does become a decision, right?
• 19:26
  I Hate Talking: So it's not so much as a decision because the decision has already been made.
• 19:33
  I Hate Talking: So for our particular instances of ordering food, we know that we are not going to have to decide between a cheeseburger or hamburger for this particular child.
• 19:45
  I Hate Talking: It will always be hamburger and therefore we do not have to make a decision.
• 19:50
  I Hate Talking: Nor will it explicitly be a decision when we are informing someone else of what their particular dietary choice is because that choice has again already been made.
• 20:03
  I Hate Talking: However, it does require mental capacity and therefore maybe plays part in another type of fatigue that we will talk about in our next episode.
• 20:14
  I Hate Talking: Mental load cause I like talking about that.
• 20:18
  I Hate Talking: Perhaps, -- perhaps -- not.
• 20:20
  I Hate Talking: We'll have to decide.
• 20:23
  I Hate Talking: OK, so routine, so.
• 20:26
  I Hate Talking: Not eating cheese for him is our routine, so we don't think about it.
• 20:32
  I Hate Talking: Is there other things then that um Like, I always brush my teeth first thing in the morning.
• 20:40
  I Hate Talking: That's the first thing I do.
• 20:41
  I Hate Talking: So that's not, does that count in the, what would you say 32,000 decisions?
• 20:48
  I Hate Talking: Was that the number?
• 20:48
  I Hate Talking: -- 35,000 -- 35,000.
• 20:51
  I Hate Talking: Does that count though in that 35,000, even if I'm not intending, like making that conscious choice to brush my teeth, I just wake up, go in the bathroom and brush my teeth.
• 21:03
  I Hate Talking: The particular article does not say, I would say that that is not really a decision because At least in terms of how we are talking about decision fatigue, when you remove that choice from the routine, it no longer fatigues you to partake in that activity or perform that activity.
• 21:25
  I Hate Talking: So you've already decided many months ago or years ago that you are going to brush your teeth first thing in the morning and therefore you don't have to decide that in that daily routine.
• 21:38
  I Hate Talking: Now, the article maybe is counting that because subconsciously you're making a quote unquote decision that are you gonna follow your normal routine or are you not, but in terms of the mental capacity that it's taking to make that quote unquote decision is far less than if you actually don't know what you're going to do when you wake up.
• 21:59
  I Hate Talking: OK, well, like driving a car, right?
• 22:02
  I Hate Talking: You get in, you put your seatbelt on, and you Like leaving my garage, I would have to put the car in reverse.
• 22:11
  I Hate Talking: I don't really think about that.
• 22:14
  I Hate Talking: I mean, I checked to make sure everything around me is safe and ready.
• 22:17
  I Hate Talking: But I don't have to think, oh, put it in reverse, don't put it in drive.
• 22:21
  I Hate Talking: Like it's an instinct, it's so natural, I know, put in reverse.
• 22:26
  I Hate Talking: Exactly, and perhaps that's a deficiency in that article is that that 35,000 decisions includes making those tiny micro subconscious decisions, but when it really comes down to the practical application of decision making, it doesn't really matter because that is not consuming mental capacity and therefore not fatiguing you if you know that you have to go in reverse to exit the garage.
• 22:50
  I Hate Talking: OK, yep, I'll buy that.
• 22:52
  I Hate Talking: So in terms of preventing decision fatigue, that is the top recommended thing is that you remove choice from these elements of your life wherever possible.
• 23:02
  I Hate Talking: So if you know that you have a particular morning routine or know what you're going to order at a particular restaurant, or you know that these are the things that you're going to do as part of what you are doing in your daily routine.
• 23:17
  I Hate Talking: That that will prevent the fatigue from having to make those decisions because those decisions have been made once, and that is what you do on a daily basis.
• 23:26
  I Hate Talking: I was at Starbucks recently and I was in the drive-through and I ordered rattled off my order, and then they gave me like, OK, your total is such and such, drive around.
• 23:38
  I Hate Talking: And then I realized like, shoot, that's not what I wanted to do.
• 23:41
  I Hate Talking: Like, I was gonna get something different, but that I got what I always order.
• 23:45
  I Hate Talking: And so I didn't even like, the second the speaker came on, I just gave my normal order, and then I was disappointed because I was like, oh, like, I was gonna get something else this time.
• 23:57
  I Hate Talking: There you go.
• 23:58
  I Hate Talking: So, uh, just like another recommendation from our last episode, it does say that sleep is critical for overcoming or preventing decision fatigue.
• 24:11
  I Hate Talking: And I think that has to do with more just preventing fatigue in general.
• 24:14
  I Hate Talking: If you're well rested and have a consistent sleep pattern, not only does it eliminate the decision on when you're going to go to bed or when you are going to set your alarm or when you're going to wake.
• 24:25
  I Hate Talking: But furthermore, you'll actually have more mental capacity to make decisions because you will be well rested.
• 24:32
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, you'd be more alert.
• 24:34
  I Hate Talking: Unlike my Starbucks order, I was not alert enough to order the proper thing.
• 24:39
  I Hate Talking: Precisely.
• 24:40
  I Hate Talking: The other thing that is specifically recommended is building downtime into your day, where if you are in a high demand decision making role or lifestyle that you actually build in some quiet time where you are explicitly not making decisions.
• 25:03
  I Hate Talking: So perhaps you're doing something else like exercising or reading.
• 25:08
  I Hate Talking: Uh, it could even be watching something on your phone or TV and just having that restful period where you do not have to make a particular decision.
• 25:22
  I Hate Talking: Would that count for like having other people make the decision?
• 25:27
  I Hate Talking: Or would that not be restful?
• 25:30
  I Hate Talking: I guess that depends on your particular temperament because I think there are some people that would find that that would be relaxing and remove some of that stress, whereas others may see that as a loss of personal control and therefore actually be more stressed from that.
• 25:49
  I Hate Talking: Is this um I don't know if this is the right time to say it, but it makes me think of when you can't decide between one item or another, and they always say like, flip a coin, and then before the coin lands, you realize which one you want because you're like in your head, you're like, oh, I hope it's this one, or, I hope it's not blah blah blah.
• 26:11
  I Hate Talking: And then they're like, oh, well, I did know the answer after all, but it was hard to make that decision until the last second, or until it became critical or became important.
• 26:24
  I Hate Talking: Yes, and that is one of the tricks that you could use in terms of trying to actually determine what your preference really is.
• 26:32
  I Hate Talking: I think that is in a similar vein where if you do have this.
• 26:37
  I Hate Talking: Paradox of choice or choice overload that you can limit the number of choices that you have by choosing broader categories that then limit the number of choices and therefore make that decision making process easier and less taxing and uh perhaps even when you're offering a choice to others.
• 26:58
  I Hate Talking: Not overloading them with choice, but giving them only a few options rather than the entirety of all the options.
• 27:06
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 27:07
  I Hate Talking: Any other tips on there?
• 27:10
  I Hate Talking: There are some workplace tips in terms of delegation and decision making in the workplace, probably not as much in view in terms of what we are discussing today.
• 27:22
  I Hate Talking: Uh, but those are some things that, uh, perhaps if our listeners would like to get more in depth with, we can consider that for a future or bonus episode, um, but those are, I think, the main things that we can consider with the very most critical one being establishing routine to eliminate the need for decision making at all.
• 27:47
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 27:48
  I Hate Talking: So, from your friends at IHTalking until next time, remember, it is only through talking that we begin the journey to understanding.