Latest / The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast / The Final Rose Has Its Thorn

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The Final Rose Has Its Thorn · The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: This is the Benn and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: with her radio. It is the finale episode of the Bachelor,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: which means it's the finale episode of like we don't
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: call this a season, but like we're gonna break down
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: the after final rose and the finale here on the
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Almost Famous Podcast Ashley, this is gonna be a longer
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: podcast than usual. There's a lot of details, uh to discuss.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Are you ready for it? Like? Are you comfortable? Do
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: you have a good seat? Are you are you ready
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: to make this thing happen? Not only do I have
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: a good comfy seat, I have my warm socks on,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: I mean my heated my heated socks, my electric socks.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: That's how settled. Well that is special. Uh, well, I'm
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: in I'm currently in Florida, and so it's eighty degrees
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: And this is why you weren't responding to her text
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: last night, sound because he really worse from there at
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: night I'm sounding yeah, because I went to go watch
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: at my friend's house and then by the time I
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: got home, I was time to text everybody our thoughts
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: and then I guess you just hit the pillow. The
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: second after after the final rows wrapped yeah, yes I did. Um,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: I don't last very late into the evening. In fact,
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: that was too late for me. I woke up this
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: morning a little tired. Um, I didn't get my eight
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: hours of sleep, which really is frustrating. But Ashley, Uh,
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: we have some really special guests today. Uh. One guest
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: who's going to start out here is bree You might
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: know her from this season of The Bachelor. Uh, somebody
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: that we're both very excited to talk to. One of
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: my favorites, and I think your favorites throughout the whole season,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Like she was your top three pretty much like from
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: week one on. From week one I called her being
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: top three. Yeah, uh some Really I want to ask
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: her why she's not being considered for the Bachelor atte
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Like why her name was never tossed into the ring.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: That's something I'm interested in because I thought like she
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: would be a great bachelor. Why was she never even
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: talked about like we talked about so many other people,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: so many other rumors were swirling, Breez's name really was
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: never brought up. And also it's interesting but then also
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: later on the podcast, uh, we have just a good
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: friend now it's the almost famous podcast a terrific, a
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: terrific human. Sam Acho, who is the brother of Emmanuel Acho.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: But sam Acho, they're both doing great things in the world.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: But Sam is an author. You gotta check out his book. Um,
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: I will talk more about his book and how I
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: know him through our book processes here and just a
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: little bit. But uh, Sam's gonna come on and break
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: down after the final rose with us, because you know,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: obviously Emmanuel is busy right now, We're gonna have him
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: on at some point. But what better person than his brother. Probably, um,
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: just the second best person, right, That's right, That's right.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: So hey Ashley, to get started. Let's bring Brie into
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: the podcast. We're gonna talk about this episode and then
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: again we have some really important questions for her. Um. So, Brie,
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: come on in, Brie Springs, Welcome to the podcast. It's
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: great to see you not reading erotica. To me, that
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: was wait wait wait wait, please elaborate. So I met
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: Brie on the Erotica writing dates that I hosted, and Brie,
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: there's only if there's like really like it's a whole
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: blur to me. I'm sure it's a blur to you.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: But the moment that sticks out in my mind really
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: wasn't even aired. And that is our now bachelorette Katie
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: humping and that little sete. I forgot about that. I
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: forgot that we were all shocked because she ended up
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: on top of him. Yeah, and that was the first
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: for us, like this happened on the date like that. Yeah.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: I was just going off of my one on one
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: and onto this next group date and I was like, oh, whoa,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: Katie did that? Yeah, you know, it's a good transition
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: point here, brit because there's just something I'm super confused
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: about out. You have to explain it to me. I'm
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: out of touch these days. You You've been in our
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: top three since the moment you stepped onto our television screens,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: like actually and I every week we're like, Breeze gonna
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: be there, um and you like you never disappointed, you
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: were always great. And then we get through this season
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: and like if we can for a second, this whole like,
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, we know what's going on within Bachelor Nation,
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: but then like underneath it all, there's been this conversation
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: about like, Okay, what's next? Right are Is it gonna
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: be a Bachelor's season again? Is it gonna be a
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Bachelorette season or is it going to be paradise? Like
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: all this confusion when it comes to the show stuff
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: was happening, and then all these names started to get
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: thrown out there about the next Bachelorette. Your name was
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: like not at the top of that list ever. And
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: I say that because that was disappointing to Ashley and
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: I it's confusing to actually I why was it? Like
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: were you in talks and it just never got to
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: the press, Like what's going on? Why is your name
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: not like at the top of that list. Yeah, I
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: don't know. That's a great question. It's a it's a
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: really great question. Um. You know, I'm not gonna lie
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: and say that I didn't consider it. Um, I definitely
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: considered it. And it's I don't know. I think it's
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: it's meant for certain people and some people it's it's
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: just not I mean. I was just talking with Nick Um.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: I was in the studio with him yesterday and he
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: made a good point on his podcast last week. He
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: was like, Marie was not meant for for this world.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: And I would have to agree. It's it's hard to
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: put yourself in that situation to be so open and
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: vulnerable and let alone on a reality TV show and
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: the guy that you're in love with is also dating
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: over thirty other women. So it's it's tough, um, And
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: I think, you know, I think personally that Katie and
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: Michelle are going to be great at it. Yeah, but okay,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: what does it mean to not be like meant for
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: this world? Like, yeah, okay, take away the opening up part,
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: because as the bachelorette, you your job is to know
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: the contestants and allow them to know you. But like,
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: what do you mean you're not made for this world?
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: I think you're perfect for you were great onto, you
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: were great for it. Well, I felt like I could
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: be myself and that could come across so authentically and
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: I'm happy about that. But it's just it is. It's
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: a highly produced world, and it was tough. It was
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: tough to to watch back and let alone. I don't
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: I just don't know how it would all play out
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: in the end. I think we all have gone to
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: a point where, you know, we all had high hopes
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: for this season and then now we're watching, you know,
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: as we've been watching it back and see it all
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: play out the way it did. You're just a little
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: bit and shock at how much control you could lose
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: in a situation like that. And that's I mean, that's
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: something that I thought about, um going into you know,
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: if I were to be asked to be the next
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: batchelor At like that's a it's a big responsibility to
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: take on. This week, you made a comment Impress that
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: this season has been mentally and emotionally draining for you,
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: So I would imagine that the Bachelor at process would
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: be even more out. But can you elaborate to us
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: about what specifically has just really brought brought to stress? Yes,
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: I mean I look at. What I meant by that
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: was I look at all of the pain that happened
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: and the mistakes that have happened in order for us
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: to get to this point that we're at now, and
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: at least for me as a black woman, it's it's
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: I look at it and see how far we've come
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: in progress. But then it's just it feels defeating because
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: it's just okay, while we have so much further to go.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think a lot of people could agree
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: that there was a missed opportunity for the show to
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: tackle much larger conversations and really dive into these diverse
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: stories and we didn't see that. Um, so that was disappointing.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: But but I know that they are taking the steps
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: necessary to to do better and I want to see that,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: do you. I haven't asked anybody this yet, and you
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: just kind of brought it up when you're on this
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: sea and like living in that world. Matt James The Bachelor, Um,
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: it wasn't a secret to anybody the opportunity of the
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: show had by having Matt James, the first black Bachelor,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: the most diverse cast ever on television for The Bachelor.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Was there ever a moment while you're in the show
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: that you're like, I feel like they're missing opportunity, Like
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: I feel like they're not doing enough. That's how I
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: felt watching it back. You know, I can confidently say
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: that I had a great experience while on the show. Um,
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: I felt heard, I felt seen, I felt supported. I
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: think it was after the fact, and I don't think
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: it's just me or just the women from our season.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of people, maybe you guys might
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: have felt this after your seasons. But you are just
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: kind of plunged into this world and you don't know
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: how to navigate that after math, like the after the fact. Um.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: So in that sense, I do feel like there could
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: have been more done, more support, more, I don't know,
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: like on a comms man, as a calm professional, I
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: would have liked to have heard from ABC, right, Like
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: I would have liked to have heard like, hey, we're
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: listening to you, like we take this stuff seriously, like
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: we condemn this. Um. But I didn't see that, and
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: that was hard. That's really hard to be a part
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: of this season and not see that. That is interesting,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: isn't it. I Mean we've we've talked about it recently
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: and um with a few people who are at the
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: kind of the heart of everything going on. And you're
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: one of those people, right, You're at the heart of
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: what's going on. You're on this season actually and I
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: removed now, but we still talk about it and we
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: have a lot of friends involved. It's it's it is weird,
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: and it does feel like even in the midst of
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: all these things coming crashing down, that somebody didn't say, okay,
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: but hold up along the way. Can we reach out
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: to the people in the middle like that are in it, Like,
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: can we at least like reach out that that is
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: a weird thing that didn't happen. It's like, you know,
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: that's a good lesson learned. Something that probably should be
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: brought up now is where was the support post show
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: or how can the show best support contestants and leads
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: post show? Maybe that comes from this, Maybe that's one
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: of the lessons learned that it would be if it was,
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: that's a great point then. I mean that's something that
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: I would like to see is just a little bit
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: more accountability from the show in how we can move
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: forward and support you know, cast and leads moving forward,
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: because in my mind, it was a lot of pain
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: of mistakes that could have been avoided. Um, but here
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: we are and hopefully we can take that into use
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: next seasons. I'm hopeful. Three. I always like to ask,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: you know, the contestnce that got really far, how they
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: felt watching the show back? Did they get closure? Did
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: they realize why you were the girls standing there in
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: the end? How did you digest watching the season back? Yeah,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: as odd as it sounds, watching my breakup back gave
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: me the closure that I needed. And I mean, you
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: guys can relate, but you're in this situation after the show,
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: where you're left to kind of pick up the pieces
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: of the puzzle and put them back together to figure
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: out what happened. And there was a lot of scrambling
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: after the fact to try to figure that out. But
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: watching it back, it just became increasingly clear to me
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: where Matt's heart was the entire time, and I think
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: we all could see that very clearly. So it was
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: easy for me to walk away from it feeling like
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: I got the closure that I needed. And this makes sense,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: but up until that episode aired last week, did you
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: still feel like very emotionally attached to him on the show?
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: I did on the show while we were filming. I
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: mean I was blindsided. I was heartbroken and I was sad,
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: and I did not see that coming. But watching it back,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, got it. Like I didn't see his
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: connection with Michelle and I didn't see his connection with
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Rachel in the house, and watching it back, I'm like,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: oh my god, there was so much undeniable chemistry there.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, I even have to ask myself, like, if
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: Serena Pete didn't send herself home, would I have even stayed,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Like would I have gotten that it was because him
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: and Serenapy had a really, really strong, amazing connection. Did
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: you guys ever know that Serena let herself go? I
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: think I think we did. Um. I think it was
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: very UM. I think it was obvious to us when
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: she didn't show up, she sent herself home. Yeah. UM,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: all right, So after watching the whole season and specifically
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: last night, do you feel like Matt is even in
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: a place for a relationship. Is that somebody that you
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: would still see yourself having a successful relationship with. I
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: will say I can confidently say that I'm not still
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: in love with Matt. I think he can probably walk
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: away from this experience looking at it and saying that
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of room for growth here. UM. I
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: was surprised by all of it, though, you know, I
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: in my mind, he and Rachel were so in love,
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: and I thought they were going to really see themselves
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: through this and see them selves at the end of this. Um.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: But I also understand why that couldn't happen, why he
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: didn't feel that that could happen. Um. And he feels
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: like he they need to kind of go their separate
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: ways in order for that growth to take place. It
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: felt like after like watching last night, um, and then
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: even watching Matt on Good Morning America, like you can
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: see the I don't want to cut it, but like
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: just the heaviness in his eyes, like like he's tired.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: He's tired, And I think I think, no matter who
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: you are, you know, you're not used to you know,
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: twelve hour press days and he's in it right now,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: so he's tired. No matter what did you feel like
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: on the show, was he stressed out? Like could you
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: get a sense that he was um running you know,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: thin the whole time? And like just mentally not like
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: like I guess mentally with so close to breaking you
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: mean on the show during filming. During filming, Oh, I mean,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: I think it is completely different. You know. I don't
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: think anyone saw how this season was going to play
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: out the way that it did. You know, in my mind,
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: I think Matt was happy on the show, and I
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: think Matt was in love and again Rachel was his
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: end all beyond that vice versa for for Rachel. But
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: it's been exhausting watching this having to wake up to
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: something new happening every single day and just have it
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: kind of blow up in your face. And I can't
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: fault Matt for not knowing these things. I mean, we
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: can't fault Matt for not knowing these things, but I'm
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: sure he just got to a point now, Like watching
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: after the Final Road, that looked like he was just like,
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: I just want this to be over and done with.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: Do you think that's one of the reasons why they're
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: not together, is like he just wants to be clean. Perhaps,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think like they both owe it to
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: themselves to do what's best for each other, because I think,
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: you know, from an audience perspective, you know, we want,
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: we want to see certain things, but at the end
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: of the day, it's like it's their las, it's their
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: their livelihoods, and they have to do what's what's best
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: for for themselves to move forward from this because it's tough.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: It's tough. My heart broke for both of them. I
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: can't imagine how tired he is. I mean, I like
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: that we got to give that some like um some notice.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: It's just like he's got to be exhausted now, ex
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: before we break down this episode, I know actually has
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: a few more questions for you. It's my question I
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: like to ask anybody came off the show, are you
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: glad you did it. I am. I am really glad
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: that I did it, and I have no regrets, no
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: regrets allowing myself to open up to Matt really fall
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: in love with him, and I can confidantly say that
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: I took a lot of lessons away from the show
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: and even more amazing friendships with the women of this season.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, that was icing on the cake. Honestly, I'll
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: ask my next questions while we go chronologically throughout the episode.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: So first we see Michelle meet his family and his
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: mom's I love the way his mom was so emotional
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: with both girls. However, my tag away from the meeting,
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: the family meeting is that this is when even before
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: his mom said anything about a lifelong commitment and love fading, which,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: all right, let's talk about that for a second. She
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: really freaks him out with this love fading thing. And um,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: there's always a chance that love is going to fade.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: Love is a risk. We can't we can't live in
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: that fear because if we do, then we'll never have
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: a fulfilling relationship. Well, what do you guys think about that?
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: I would have to agree with you, like I, you know,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: all of us entering into this world. We're willing to
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: kind of take that risk, take that leap of faith,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: to really allow ourselves to fall in love. And I
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: think he probably got really scared because he'd never been
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: in a relationship before, or he had never been in
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: love before. So whenever you hear that, you're like, oh, shoot,
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: and I'm about to get engaged tomorrow two days, Like
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: get freaked out, yeah, because everything's already up in like
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: you're already so confused up in your head the way
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: it is at that point, You're like, I could be
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: engaged in two days, and if there's any seat of
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: doubt in that, then, like then you get even more confused,
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: which is probably good. Why that he just said, hey,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: let's just date, because there was that doubt there. I wonder,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: though I don't want to put words in his mom's mouth,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: but I wonder this because I watched that and I
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: what I took from it was what she was saying was,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: you know this is and I'm gonna expound and put
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: words in her mouth more than it ever is healthy.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: But this is what I was thinking, is you know
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: you're in this crazy experience, Matt. There is it is euphoric.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: It is beautiful. You are feeling all sorts of puppy love,
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: like you are just overwhelmed with this sensation of like,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: you know, the angels are singing in the you know,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: the leaves are greener than ever, and there's love in
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: the air. But and I will say that when it
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: comes to a committed love, like love that last, that
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: feeling fades and it comes at times, but it's not
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: a constant, right, like the puppy love, the early love,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: the middle school of fades and when it does, what's left.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: And what's left is that committed loving partnership, that relationship
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: that maybe doesn't feel is like, oh my gosh, this
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: is overwhelming. But what what's left is No, you're my partner,
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: you're my person. We're gonna get through life together. I
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: wonder if that's what she was saying, Like that fades,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: and I would say that's a good note to give
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: your son, is like, look passes on like not as
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: much of like the emotion of what you're feeling now.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: But if if you're looking at one of these women,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: is that somebody you can't live without forever? Yeah, I
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: hope she was saying that. I mean, I hope that's
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: what I would hope that she that's like I said,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: I just put so many words in her mouth, but
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: that's that's what I'm thinking. Okay. So I felt that
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: even for that Love Fads conversation, you could feel the
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: doubt creeping up with Matt because unlike all the other
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: okay not all, but most other leads, when they bring
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: the girls or the guys to meet the family, they
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: are stoked and they are like hanging on like they're
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: on pins and needles, waiting for the advice, um, the
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: feedback from the family after the meeting, and you just
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: feel more passionate. But I feel like Matt was, like
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: he was definitely in the I don't know what I'm
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: doing land and he knew. I mean, that would be
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: a really good question that I to ask Matt, like
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: if he was honest with himself throughout this entire experience,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: because I could see coming into it how you're so
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: open to the possibilities, you're open to an engagement like, hey,
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: that's what I was there to do too, um, And
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: then you just had this like wave of and I
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: mean it was just it was a complete one eight
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: from the conversation I had just had with him on
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: how I at things like I walked away saying, Matt
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: ready for an engagement, like he's reassured me, and then
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: you get there and you you see that he just
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: kind of wasn't. So I could see how it all
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: hits you at a certain point where you're like, oh, shoot,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: like we have been in a bubble. This is not reality,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: this is fantasy. Am I ready for this? That is
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: wild that you brought that up because you asked him
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: point blank on your date the week before, are you
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: ready for an engagement? And what they didn't what I
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: feel like you probably didn't see as whenever I responded
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: saying like that was really round about answer yes or no,
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: and he said yes. I would have to those say
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: to Matt's credit, and I'm a big Matt fan. I
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: think you know, just like any lead he feels short
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: at times. He did great at times, Like I like
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: Matt a lot as a person, but you don't as
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: the lead one. I would disagree with you actually and
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: say I wasn't super stoked to have my family meet
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: the girls. I was super nervous because I knew that
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: they were going to be my parents are gonna be
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: area overwhelmed. I knew it was a lot for them
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: to take in. I knew I was showing up and
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: not seeing them for months, them never meeting these girls
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: and being like, Hey, I'm gonna introduce you to one
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: girl that like I could be with, And I'm not
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: gonna tell you which one because that's not something we
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: can do here, but I'm gonna just tell you, like,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: I'm very interested in Like, it's a lot, and it's
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: it's very it's very it's a very hard situation. The
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: second point that I want to make is when you're
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: on the show, and I don't know if you all
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: felt this way, it kind of like goes in a
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: wave and like you have. You start out and it's
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: a lot of fun and it's exciting and it's new
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: and you're like exploring it, and then you get in
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: the moment like middle ground, where it gets like long
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: and you kind of get tired and stressful, and then
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: you get to the end. You don't actually have to
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: confront the idea that you're going to be engaged possibly
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: at the end of this until like three days before
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: it actually happens. That's what happens exactly. So like you
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: talk about it. You joke about it, like people ask
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: you about it, but like you, it doesn't actually hit
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: you that, holy cow, this is actually happening, And you
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: have to ask yourself, do I want it to happen
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: or not until like the very end? So maybe that's
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: when it hit him. Yeah, And you know what, can
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: I also say something too? Is I think what I mean?
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: Maybe if I could go back and do something a
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: little bit differently, I think I would want to clarify,
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: like what does this engagement mean to you? Because as
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: crazy as it sounds, like, I actually didn't know that
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: had never been in love before. Um, so maybe if
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: that was a conversation that we had, you know, like,
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: is this something that you know, this is the one
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: one time you're going to get down on your knee
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: in your life? Like is that what's all writing on
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: this engagement? And I think that that's a really important
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: question to ask yourself if you're going to go back
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: into the situation. Is what does this engagement at the
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: end of this mean to you? Is it like I'm
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: putting a ring on your finger and making a promise
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: to you and we're going to figure out what comes afterwards,
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: or is it like, this is the last time I
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: want to do this, So I have to know that
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: you are my person and here's what we're going to
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: lay out on the table before. Okay, so you got
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: you have to wrap with us in a little bit
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: like we don't have you forever because it's a busy
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: post post finale. Uh, you know, press say for you. Um. However,
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: I want to get an important question in tell us
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: about Rachel in real life and how you feel like
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: she's handled this throughout the past couple of months. Yeah,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: So Rachel and I Rachel kay, Yeah, Yes, Rachel and
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: I were We're friends. We're friends. We were friends on
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: the show. And as soon as all of the photos
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: and videos started coming to light, you know, I reached
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: out to um check in on her and extend my support,
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: and I didn't hear from her until after, you know,
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: the filming of after the final rows and UM. I
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: think her apology was a step in the right direction,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: and the most important thing that she can do is
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: turn her words into actions, and I think she's starting
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: to do so by sitting down having that conversation that
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: she did with a manual and and seeing how she
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: responded and how she was just honest and she was
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: extremely apologetic. I think she's taking the right steps, and
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: it's just we all want to see action being done.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: And I know she's a good person. Um. I know
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: she has a good heart, and I'm proud of her
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: for being able to handle this and like with stride
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: as she has. UM, I just think there are obviously
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: a lot of learning lessons that she and a lot
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: of other of us can can take away from it.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: It's uh, it's nice for you to reach out to
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: her though. That's a big deal. Thinks. Uh, yeah, it's awesome.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: It's tough. I mean, we and one well, one of
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: the things that I wish people could have seen was
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: the bond that we all had for each other, I
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: mean the women, we all really leaned on each other
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: as a source of strength and support during the season,
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: And I wish people could have seen more than that
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: because behind the scenes, like we all are friends and
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: we're supportive and we're there for one another. That was
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: a massive, massive air like huge, like we want I
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: we should have seen how supportive you all were to
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: each other, Like we didn't see that, right. The takeaway
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: from the season was this is the one group of
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: cast members that never got along, and it's like that
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: you're saying that that was so far from the truth.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: I would I wish it was more balanced, because while
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: there was I'm not going to deny, you know, negative
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: things that I think people saw from audience perspective, my
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: personal reflection was positive with everyone, and I wish people
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: could have seen more. I mean, you saw the dates,
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: for example, the dates that got cut out, like those
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: were so fun and we all had an amazing time.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Actually my group date that was my favorite group date ever.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: So I mean, I think he told a lot about
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: somebody ridiculous. My day got cut down to like two minutes.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: I was there for five freaking days and then all
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: of a sudden, I wasn't wait. I was on the
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: on the days of both of you. Yes you were
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Humkin Patch, the Pumpkin Dames. When I was just yelling
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: at these poor girls that eat more pancakes? How how
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: just absolutely brutal? Is that like awful pancakes? Oh? There
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: were three actually there were three pancakes dry with like
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: nothing to get them down with, like, and these poor
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: girls were like I walked out to see, like, yeah,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: it was it was brutal. Okay, Hey, anyways, you're the best,
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: big fancy you here, um, and thanks for joining us.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: I'm sure we'll be talking to you and seeing you
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: around for years to come. Um. But yeah, thanks for
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: coming to the podcast. And uh, I really appreciate you.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: Thank you, guys, I really really appreciate it. Really nice
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: to see you guys with both again. Ivory, thanks for
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: one last question. Who do you want to be in Paradise?
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: Come on, we need that headline. And I don't know
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: if I'm going to paradise someone that I don't. I
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: don't know if I'm going to do Paradise, but I
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: mean I would. I'm just gonna ship this couple because
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: I've been a fan. But Piper and Mike. Oh, that's
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: that's new. That's good. That's good, that's good. It's always good.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: But you put something out there. It's nice to talk
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: about somebody else before you talk about yourself. Because now
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: the headline reads Piper and Mike. I like your style, Bree,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: you get it. Hey, have a good one, Have a
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: drink of water. You've got a wrong day of talking. Alright, Ben, Well,
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: let's continue our part one recap together. The first two
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: hours after the mom and his brother meet with him.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: We go into the dates, but turned into one day
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: because he only went on a date with Michelle. They
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: did the propelling, which didn't seem that scary off of
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: the side of the show. So I was there, it's
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: like five stories tall. Yeah, I was like this I
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: could do. They're really stretching. At this point, my mom
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: was watching it with me and she's sitting there's like, wait,
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: this is scary. She's like, I would do that, Like
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: people do that every day there to like do maintenance
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: on the building. Like that's not scary, Like that was.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: I was like, that wasn't a big deal for me. Okay.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: So then we go to the night time portion, which
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: was just like you knew he was walking into that
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: room to break up with her. And then and then
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: right as he was almost about to get the guts
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: and the words to do so, she goes, wait, I
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: want to show you this gift I got you about
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: taking out the world together. No. Oh, did you see
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: his actual reaction, Like he put his head, he put
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: his hand to his forehead and looked over. It's just
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: one of those moments that you're like, I don't want
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: to be here. I don't know how I signed up
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: for this. I care about this girl. H It's brutal, Like,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, the whole thing was about being teammates, and
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: then he has to like I mean, it's like Lebron
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: leaving Cleveland, Like he has to break up with his teammate. Brutal,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: absolutely awful. It was so bad, uh, And the missus
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: I was like, she pulled out the MR. And I
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: was like, oh God, the mrs Is coming, The Mrs
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: Is coming, and this is gonna be so bad. And
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: there it was anyway, and then we learned that that
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: he you know, walks her out of that room and
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: then she goes back and she's like crying and crying
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: and being being consoled by the producers and they're trying
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: to set up her to have like two minutes of
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: extra time to talk to Matt and he denies it.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: It's weird. Yeah, I don't get it. I still I
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: don't understand that. I'm telling you, I feel like he
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: lost his soul throughout this process. A little bit like
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: so drained happens. I mean, he might have, and he
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: was tired and he was confused, and at this point
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: he's probably tired of talking about it. He might not
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: have been seeing things clear, like he might not have
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: been seeing like, hey, she actually just really wants to
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: talk to you, And it could have just been like
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: what's going to be the benefit? Like I'm not changing
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: my mind and never really know the whole like reason
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: for it. Um, it's interesting too. Actually, as we see
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: here talking about Michelle, how many how many weeks have
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: we had Michelle like on the show? Now? I mean
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: we know her better than like any other contestant, yet
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: she was here like half the time. Yes, she we
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: missed out four weeks on her, but yeah, we definitely
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: feel like I think that I feel like I know
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: her just as much as I feel like Rachel. Right, yeah,
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: I think so. But yeah, I mean, Matt you said
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: it best, like it feels like he lost his soul,
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: And I would say, like, it's not just Matt, that's
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: not like a Matt thing, that's like all of us.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: Like at this point in time, you're so tired that
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: you see the like lighted into the tunnel and you're
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: running for it and anything that's going to distract you
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: from that. I see how you don't want to get
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: involved in it. But I mean, not a good decision,
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: still a bad decision for him, but I can see
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: how it happened. I understand exactly well put Ben well
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: put So, then after Michelle's dumping, Rachel gets a date
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: card to her room that says like, I need a minute,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: can't see you today basically, And at first I really
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: thought Rachel was like, secretly a little excited because I
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: think she knew that meant that he was emotional over
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: dumping Michelle the next day. But then I think she
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: had a bigger realization that like, oh crap, he doesn't
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: want to see me though, so what's he thinking about? Ah? Yeah,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: it would have been really like I don't know how
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: she would have gotten to the place of being excited
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: about this, Like I would have been in my own
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: head thinking about every worst scenario. You weren't no, like
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: I don't think you're you are, but like I know
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: myself and I was like, oh am I be in
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: my own head saying the worst possible scenarios would be
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: going on. So if if she did say think of
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: to herself like, oh, this is a good thing, he
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: like is sad because he let Michelle go And I'm
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: just gonna hang out here and have my coffee and
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: ticket for a few days until he's ready to see me. Great,
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: but like I would have been in my own head
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: for three days. Well, my initial interpretation of this, and
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: it may have been hers too, was like, Hey, I'm
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: gonna take today off, but I'll see you tomorrow. I
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: didn't think we were going to just totally skip Rachel
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: date and go to the big Rose ceremony. Yeah. Do
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: you think that they were going to go immediately to
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: the Rose ceremony? I was. I watched this whole episode confused,
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: Like I didn't think he was even going to go
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: to the Rose ceremony. Like I thought that I had
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: pretty much thought like he at this point was just
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: gonna like say, let's go date. Let's like skip all this,
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: let's get out of here, and that's how the show
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: was going to end. So I didn't know what was
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: coming up next. I just thought, uh, And I honestly didn't. Maybe,
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: and this is maybe how bad I am as a
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: fan of the show and I've been on this show.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: Like when when he when she got the letter that
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: said meet me at the lake, like that gave me anxiety.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: I was like, if somebody wrote me a letter and it
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: it was like see me at the lake. I'll be like,
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: oh crap, this is it, this is over, not even
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: thinking I would have never even thought that that was
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: the final. Like Rose, I would have been just like,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: he just wants to see me the lake to send
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: me home. That's what I was thinking. I was like,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: are they going to tell her to wear the big
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: fancy dress here or is this just a date? That's
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: what I was confused by. Mimi at the lake sounds
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: like let's go have a pick nick at the lake
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: and talk things over, especially since he said I need
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: let's talk right something like along those lines. So I
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: definitely thought this is gonna be more of a conversation
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: unless of they I'm pulling up to the final Rows
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: ceremony because guess what, didn't even meet her at the lake.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: He met Harrison at the lake and then she pulled
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: up to like that big to do. Yes, very complaining.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: I'm not complaining here, but like I feel like she
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: just had no idea what direction this is going in,
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: and I feel confused for her well, And I think
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: I think that's fair because I mean I had no
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: clue either as a fan and like Bree was just
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: kind of saying, there's a lot of things as fans
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: that we have the privilege of seeing that the contestants
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: don't even see, Like we see the whole story play
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: out in front of us. So as the whole story
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: is playing out in front of us, you and I,
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: both who have been on the show and fans the show,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: were confused at what in the world was happening and
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: even how it ended. Um, it was like a tad
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: weird to me too, because it felt like a really
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: beautiful moment, but yet there was no like follow up
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: conversation for Rachel to ask like why like why do
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: you feel like this now? Like why are you just
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: asking to date me? Like what's happened? Like there was
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: none of that, And then that's weird. It was weird
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: that it was done at the podium or whatever you
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: want to call that. Um what is it called? What
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: call like at a wedding? Okay, the archway? Um? Alright? So,
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: but like also and we'll call it a gazie bow.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: How funny were the teases of Neil Lane and trying
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: to get the ring in there, and like is he
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: going to propose? Is he's not going to propose. Basically,
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: he's like telling Harrison I don't think I can propose,
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: and then they're like, yeah, but we quarantine nil Lane
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: for a week, so we're going to get him in here.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: And then he like looks at the rings and he's like,
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: can I hold it? And then like he's thinking, oh,
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: maybe if I feel in the moment, I'll do it.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: And then just moments before so he picked sadder ring,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: puts it in his pocket. He says, can I hold
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: onto this? Then he meets Harrison at the lake and
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: then he tells him I'm still going to like play
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: this by ear if I feel like proposing or not.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: There's no way he was playing it by ear. No way.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: Can we also give neil In a little credit. He's
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: just spent fifteen days in the last four months, so
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: a half of a month in the last no, six
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: months quarantined for the Bachelor franchise because he did it
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: twice with Claren Tasia and then he did it with
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: Matt James. That poor guy fifteen days in a hotel
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: room for his Yeah, the guy. The guy is he
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: must love room service, Like he must just absolutely love
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: the idea of watching Netflix chilling and eating chicken fingers.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: I don't think so. If you know Neil as much
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: as I do, and that's not that much, but enough
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: to know that that man is very eccentric. He needs
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: to be buzzing around doing art creating. I don't know
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: how he handles being in a room. Yeah. Maybe one
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: of the best jobs he's ever done. Though. From Matt
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: James this season was he sat in it. He talked
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: Madd into taking a ring. He responded to questions, I mean,
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: the guy, the guy's is just a fixture on this
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: on this show. Um, and yeah, he we found they
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: found a way to get Matt to take a ring,
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: and there was nobody. Okay, So here's the other thing.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: And and and I don't want to be critical of Matt,
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: because I've made it clear that I like Matt and
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: I know how hard this is, Like there's no perfect
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: way to do this, but here's my thought. And maybe
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: Matt was just so confused, but it was like, and
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: I would I want to ask him this on the
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: podcast at some point, but like, I'm gonna play it
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: by ear or however, he said that in the moment
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: when he had the ring in his pocket. You don't
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: propose to somebody playing it by ear like that is
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: not a thing that happens. I'm just saying for anybody
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: out there listening, if you're like, I have got a
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: ring in my pocket, I don't know she's the one
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: or not or he's the one, um, but like, if
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: I have in my pocket, I'm just gonna play by
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: ear and see if it feels right and see if
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: it's like, that's not how you do this thing. So
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: at that point in time, we should have all known
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: that he's not going to propose, and I'm glad he
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: did it because he wasn't ready for it, Like it
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: wasn't the thing for sure, but that was the way.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: That's a weird thing to say, like I'm gonna play
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: it by ear. I know that Rachel and Matt have
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: been through a lot since that scene was filmed, but
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: let's pretend that nothing has happened, and it's just the
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: day after. Imagine her finding out that he had a
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: ring in his pocket and he just decided by ear
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: not going to get on one. Nay, yeah, just like okay,
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: that's fine, We'll just we'll try to feeling it that
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: intensely in the moment it's not quite there. Well, Ashley, Um,
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: I would say most people I was watching Twitter last night,
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: I'd say most people I thought the final episode was
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: not after the fund of rose piece, just like the
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: airing of the episode was like a little bit odd
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: and off, like there was a lot of emotional like
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: stuff going on. We did get to see the scene
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: that you've been waiting for all season with Matt on
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: the herb and and now it makes sense to why
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: he was so upset and why it was so hard
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: for him. Um, let's take a break here. You know,
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: we have Sam Acho coming on to talk about after
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: the Final Rose. Uh. Emmanuel Acho's brother, Sam again is
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: an author, a tremendous dude. He's gonna talk through us.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: He watched the episode, he watched The Bachelor for the
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: first time. I believe um this week not only watch
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: his brother, but to kind of break down after the
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: final Rose with us. So let's just take a break here.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: When we come back, we'll have Sam Acho on the
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: podcast and we're gonna talk about after the Final Rose. Hey,
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: this is Becky Tilly and Tanya rad Rad. That's me. Yeah,
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: and we have a podcast called Scrubbing In Yeah, we do.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: We are two best friends and we love Grey's Anatomy,
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: hence the name scrubbing In exactly. And this week we
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: have one of Grey's Anatomy's very own, Anthony Hill, who
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: plays Winston in the podcast, to chat about what's been
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: going on. If you follow Gray's Antomy, you know that.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's just a lot to talk about. There
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: are sudden deaths, people are coming back this season. There's
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: a whole lot going on. It is a huge season
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: for Gray's Anatomy. So I highly suggest you tune in.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: And you're not just gonna get Gray's Anatomy. I mean
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: we have girl talk. It's just girl talk. It's like
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: you're talking with your best friends on the couch. Yeah,
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: except not with your best friends. You're talking with us,
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: your virtual best friends, virtual bfs. That's right. So listen
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: to scrubbing In on the I Heart Radio app, on
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm super
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: pumped today. A little backstory here, as all of you know, um,
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: because you've been listening to this podcast and I talk
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: about it endlessly. I came out with a book uh
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: in early February called Alone in Plain Site Go to
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: Ben Higgins book dot com to purchase right now. But
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: a part of that journey, uh was with my my publisher,
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: Thomas Nelson, and they said early on in my experience
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: of kind of promoting to say, Hey, there's this guy
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: that I think you're really going to get along with.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: I think you're really gonna like He's a great dude,
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: an incredible story. Uh, he has a book with us
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: as well. You should talk to him. And I was like,
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: all right, what's his name is? Said Sam Acho, And
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: I said perfect, and so Uh, Sam and I were
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: able to connect. Uh, they're right. Uh, this dude has
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: been a massive we'll talk about it with him in
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: just a second. He's been a massive part of my
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: life in the last time, I would say five months.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: I don't know how long it's been, as if time
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: flies and you're having fun, um, but it's been an
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: incredible experience. Where his brother is Emmanuel Acho, who you
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: might to watch last night on After the Final Rows.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: Sam is with us right now to discuss so many things. Sam,
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: thank you for joining the Almost Famous podcast. I'm glad
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: to be here. Van and Ashley, good to meet you.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: We were talking a little bit offline here and y'all stories.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: So I'm super excited that I'm almost famous. I am
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: almost famous, right. My brother hosted hosted after, so like
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: he's the favorite. I'm almost famous. So I think this
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: is a very fitting fitting episode. But Samy, you're also
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: like kind of famous because football plat you are? You know,
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: you're an NFL player, you do commentary? What else do
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: you do? Like what are your jobs? Because I know
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: you have multiples? Yeah, definitely. So I played the last
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: nine years in the NFL for the Arizona car Nos,
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: Chicago Bears, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. I just wrote a
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: book called Let the World See You that dropped prep
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: before Christmas. I saw him an author working on some
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: other books as well. I do some TV stuff for
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: uh locally in Chicago because I live out here in Chicago.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: But also I've got some stuff and do some stuff
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: in Canada, like for This Canada Show and and also
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: some like other new stuff like on ESPN, et cetera.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: And so that's kind of what I've been doing. And
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: then last piece of nonprofit stuff as well, right, so
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: nonprofit called Athletes for Justice and also have a new
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: podcast called the Athletes for Justice podcast, which I was
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: just on with the any f downs. It was a blast.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: It was it was good, like we could have gone
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: for hours, right like, it was a good podcast. Um,
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: it's fun to talk to you. You know. Also, you
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: didn't mention he is the better looking brother of the
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: Acho brothers. I would say that mostly because I know
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: him better at this point. Uman, he's a smile that smile.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: I wish everybody could see that through their audio. Hey,
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: I love that you can hear the smile through that
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: people actually saying like I could, I could hear you.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: I love that though, because my brother Emmanuel, he's the
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: most like pretty boy is a strong is strong right,
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: but he literally like everything is like to the t
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: and always feels like he's got to be. And I
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: was out we were doing ESPN together, and uh he
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: said something like, well, he's the better looking Acho and
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: I was like, bro, I'm good. I gotta wife, the
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: three kids and so and it actually was this our
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: seven year anniversary yesterday. Yeah, thank you so much. I
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: like I'm doing I'm doing more than just something right.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: So you're the single one. I'm the guy with the
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: wife and kids, so my looks are a okay, I'm
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: doing just fine. Well. In fact, when a man when
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: I was connected with Emmanuel through Sam, I think my
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: text him was, hey, uh, you know, it's nice to
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: meet you through your better looking brother or something. But
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: you know, the Acho brothers are are everywhere right now,
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: and we're here to talk about you a lot on
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: this podcast, but also talk about kind of last night.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: I know last night was the first time you've ever
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: watched The Bachelor or the Bachelor app and so we
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: do want to discuss kind of that whole thing in
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: your opinion on it all. But again I want to reiterate, like,
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: you're up to a lot in this life. Uh, let
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: the world see you. It's a tremendous book that I've read,
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: that I've dug into with you a couple of times
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: on different podcasts that we've been able to connect on
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: and and even on the phone. What was the process
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: like of writing this book? Why did you write it?
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: And for anybody out there listening that's like, hey, I'm
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: thinking about checking it out, why would they want to
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: check it out? Yeah, Well, if if anybody put it
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: this way, like I think a lot of people go
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: through like issues of insecurity and nobody wants to talk
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: about it. Nobody wants to talk about some of the
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: fear and the shame and the guilt that we've experienced,
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: and so we try to suppress those things. And so
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: this book is really about bringing our full selves to
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: the table, because what happens is when you suppress your fear,
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: your shame, your guilt, your insecurity. You suppress those things
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: thinking that I can just cut those out and I'll
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: be able to just live life fully. But like when
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: you cut off one emotions, you you cut off all
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: of them, and so like you can't pick which emotions
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: you cut off. So if you're trying to cut off
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: that fear and say I'm just not gonna get angry,
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: we're probably not gonna be so happy either. Right if
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: you cut off the shame, I'm just gonna feel that, well,
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: you're not gonna be able to experience those true moments
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: of life and of love. And so this book is
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: for anyone who wants to understand what it's like to
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: be seen, to be known, to be loved. And so
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: if you pick up the book, that's what you'll get
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: from it. Right, if you go to it's on Amazon
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: and sam Acho book Dot com wherever you if you
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: go get the book, that's what you're gonna learn. And
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: even for me, like I'm learning how to name my emotions,
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: because that's one thing that I think people don't do
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: a great job of, whether it's like, man, I'm angry,
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: like I'm that made me really upset or that hurt
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: me right, I'm learning to do that because I've noticed
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: that when I don't, I usually just kind of crumble
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: on the inside. And so like for me, like last night,
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: I was doing something and I literally just picked up
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: the book and started reading it out loud, and it
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: was almost like this reminder of the love that was
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: washing over me. And so I think that's what you'll
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: get when you when you read the book or listen
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: to the audio book, you remember that you're that you're loved,
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: that you're known, and that you're seeing the best parts
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: of you. Well, you sound like a fantastic guest today
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: if you're able to name your emotions, because we need
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: to name some emotions that went down during after the
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: Final Rose yesterday. But before we get into Matt and
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: Rachel Michelle's emotions, let's talk about your brother for a minute.
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: How did he prepare for this role. Oh that's a
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: great question. So my brother Emmanuel hosted the show. And
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: it's funny because he's been preparing his whole life for this.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: We were talking the other day and he has a
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: daily show on TV on on Fox Sports called Speak
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: for Yourself. It's literally every single day for about two
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: hours a day. He's been doing that for about a
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: year or so. Before that, he was on ESPN for
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: about two or three years. Before that, he was on
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: long Horn Networks, like doing TV stuff year after year
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: after you're even making videos by himself for social media
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: to digest during COVID. So he's been doing it and
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: preparing for years. And he said something to me the
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: other day. He said, if, like if this was a ten,
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: like like hosting that show was a ten as far
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: as difficulty and like the skill and like everything that
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: went into it. He said, everything else I've been doing
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: was like a four. And so we and so we
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: talked about the idea of like peak performance is when
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: you have to bring your best to the table. It's
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: when like all your gifts and skills and abilities meet
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: the challenge. And he said hosting that show for him
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: was experiencing peak performance. Right, The sports stuff he does
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: and he's been doing it at a high, high level, phenomenal.
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: The other stuff he does on on social media Twitter, Instagram,
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: makes videos phenomenal. Even his uncome terrible conversations that he's
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: had with with tons of people phenomenal. But he said
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: this was different. He's like The Bachelors the most most
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: watch uh, non scripted show on TV. So I'm over
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: here like having to make not necessarily made people cry,
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: but like listen to them as they cry, change the subject.
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: Even that moment where he said two to Rachel, hey
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: are you ready to see Matt? And she was like no,
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: and he was like, well he's coming out anyway, you
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: know what I mean, you don't have you know, and
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: like and even and even like the production piece to
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: like he actually was like in a lot of those
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: production meetings, like saying, hey, this is what we need
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: to say, how it needs to go, even to that
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: specific point. Right, Initially they had it edited to where like, hey,
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: are you ready to go see Matt? She said no,
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden Matt was just coming out.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: They cut out his line about that and he's like
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: no, no no, no, I can't just like, come on, dude,
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: Like I can't just make her do what you don't like,
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: you have to say, you have to put my part
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: in there. So, like even the production piece, he's been
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: ready for this for a really really long time, and
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: and it wasn't like he was like chasing after it.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: He actually has been trying to produce his own show
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: that's like I think similar to The Bachelor, I forget
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: what it's called. He's been pitching that to different people
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: in l A. And so the fact that this came
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: about was perfect. I heard that it was a seven
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: hour long recording. Did he say that he was concerned
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: that it was going to be chopped down too much?
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: Because normally after the final rows is like forty minutes
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: live and this was a lot longer than that and
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: not live. Was he worried about certain things being cut
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: out that are important to him? Yeah, I don't think
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: he was worried because he was involved in that decision making. So,
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: like even with the with the video series he's been
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: doing with the Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man, like
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: those will be three or four hour conversations and will
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: cut it down to twenty minutes. Some of them might
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: be two hours and we'll cut it down like twelve minutes.
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: And he's the one actually cutting down and and figuring
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: out what needs to be in there. And so I
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: don't think he was concerned, but he wanted a little
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: bit of that creative opportunity to make sure that the
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: story was told the way that it needed to be told.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: It's interesting because one of the back stories here and
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: I have a lot of of love for Sam, and
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: I think he knows that. At this point. Um, when
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: when everything went down with Chris and that interview with
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: Rachel Lindsay happened, I was on a car ride and
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: I was like kind of like freaking out for a
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: lot of reasons. Right, Chris is a friend, Uh, and
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: this is blowing up on my phone. Everybody's asking me,
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: you know. Uh. And and then also like the the
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: weight of everything that was going to be kind of
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: happening afterwards that we all kind of knew was gonna
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: be coming. And and I was like sitting there and
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: I was just kind of praying through a car ride,
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: and I called Sam. I had like an hour to
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: talk and uh, and Sam and I were able just
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: to kind of like, I mean, he was just incredible
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: to me in the way that like I was able
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: to just like kind of share my heart and him
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: to you know, correct and to speak truth into me
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: and to give me encouragement. It's weird for me same
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: and I don't know if we haven't been able to
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: really dive into it. It's weird for me now to see,
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: like from that conversation that happened, I don't know, twenty
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: four hours after that interview, to not knowing what the
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: future was gonna look like with Emmanuel being the host
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: of the show just a few months later. Like how
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: this whole thing has gone full circle in your in
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: your life and mine. Right, you don't even know about it.
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: When I called you, You're like what happened? And I
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: had to explain it to you, and then somehow someway
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: your brother becomes the host. Yeah. No, it's it's funny
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: because like you texted me and you're like, hey, this thing,
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: and I was like, I don't know what. I haven't
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: watched the show, um and that. And then when we
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: talked and I went back and watched it, and I
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: was like, oh, that's that's not a good look, right,
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: And I did it just from from what was said
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: and what I saw just wasn't a good look and
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: so um, and I think we texted and like maybe
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: like with Chris and all the kind of things and
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: um and then and then my brother was like, hey,
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: I'd love to do an uncomfortable conversation with him. I
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: like to have him on my series. I think that'd
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: be amazing. Um, and I think they talked about it.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Then I think y'all know more about kind of how
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: this stuff goes. And I do the what do y'all call?
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: Like your the powers that be in the Bachelor Nation team? Okay, cool?
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: The production team. I like powers that be a lot better.
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: The powers that be were like, hey, we want him
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: to get the exclusive on Good Morning America. First, so
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: Emmanuel was like, well, hey, come on, let's do the thing.
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: And then it was like Chris couldn't. He couldn't because
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: like the powers that be, you know, they're like, hey,
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: we want to do with this route. And so my
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: brother's like, all right, cool, and then all of a sudden,
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: his start his phone starts getting blown up. And I
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: don't know all the details, like he'd have to be
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: the one to tell you, but they're like, hey, I
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: think there was interest in him hosting it and so
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: like so so like Emmanuel still wanted the mom but
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: he had to wait for the Good Morning America thing
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: and I think by then maybe it had I don't
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: know if it had been announced or not yet. Um.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: And then so anyways, like so like they're like talking,
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: and I think they're both trying to like they're both
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: like figuring this out at the same time, right, because
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: it's one of those things where it's like, okay, like
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: can you come on, can you not? Like what's you're
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: what's gonna happen? And like I think some of the news,
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: like Emmanuel find out the news about I don't. I
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: don't know what news have been announced something maybe bachelorette
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: or whatever, and like he'll text Chris and be like, oh, man,
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: like you know what I mean, Like this happened, you
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: know what I mean. And so they're both, from what
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: I understand, they're both kind of walking in this thing
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: like trying to figure it out. Yeah, it's cool, it's
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: cool to be I guess for me, you know, knowing
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: Chris as a friend, knowing you, I don't. I've talked
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: to Emmanuel a few times. Um, it's interesting to see
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: now the behind the scenes of it all. And also
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: though like, yeah, they have been talking, which is why
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: when Emmanuel was announced as the host of the show,
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: like I would imagine, I don't want to speak for Chris.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: I have no clue what his opinion was on that,
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: but he's like, hey, like this is a dude that like, hey,
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: after something I've invested twenty years and two, like, this
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: is a dude that can do that. Like I I
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: you know, I know he he wants to do this well,
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: I know that he wants to make sure that like
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: everything is talked about. I don't know how that felt
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: for him, but I would imagine it's kind of a
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: weird thing to be like, wait, I'm also texting with
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: the guy now that's gonna be sitting in that sea,
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: and like he's only texting with him because Sam, who
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: Chris doesn't know, and Ben Higgins says, hey, you should
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: talk to Emmanuel, Like I just can't imagine what that
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: feels like or what's going on behind the scenes in
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: those kind of conversations. Yeah, I feel like it's like
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: and it's I'll use like a sports example, it's almost
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: like you've got like two quarterbacks trying to get the
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: starting spot right or like wanting to be on the
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: team right, and it's like, hey, coach, make the decision,
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: you know. But it's like, hey, I'm still gonna be
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: friends with you, Like I'm not gonna like and like
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: I know Emmanuel's heart, like he's like, dude, I'm not
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: gonna like like I think he understands like life, it
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: has a long trajectory. So like with anything, the last
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: thing you want to do with sale, let me try
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: and figure out a way to kind of get by
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: on this guy. He's like, dude, like I mean, I'm
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: for you. You know what I mean, I'm for you know.
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: I haven't watched all the interviews that Emmanuel's done or
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: have all the ones that Chris has done, but I
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: mean I even saw some of the interviews Emmanuel said.
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: And it's not he's like, hey, I should be the
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: next you know what I mean, Like he's more you know,
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: and so um so anyways that it's almost I see
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: it like I'm almost like a quarterback controversy, like hey, coach,
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: make the decision. We're trying to hang out, we want
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: to kick it, we want to be friends. But like
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: what what's what? What is this? What's happening? What is this?
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: You know, do you think that Emmanuel would have been
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: the host if it weren't for Rachel Lindsay's recommendation. That's
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: a great question. I don't know, Like I said, like
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: the powers that be, so I don't know like how
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: they operate, Um I do. I did see that Rachel
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: like said hey, he'd be a great host, um and
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: actually talked to him about that, you know, and he
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: was like, dude, like I didn't ask Rachel to do that,
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: Like I didn't, you know, like I was honored that
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: she that she said that, but it wasn't like, hey, Rachel, um,
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: go put in this good word like and then she
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: got not crucified, the strong word, but she got kind
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: of thrown to the wolves after that. And so anyways, UM,
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I'm sure
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: that um, Rachel's voice matters a ton, And so I
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: think about like her putting her reputation on the line
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: for somebody I think is a is a really big deal.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: It's uh, it's just it's the whole thing. The whole
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: process has been intriguing, and you know, one thing I
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: wanna say here is well, interesting fact is you grew
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: up going to church in the same church with Rachel Lindsay,
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: which is kind of a random connection, right like in Dallas, Texas. Um,
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: but you and your brother both uh are incredible humans, right,
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: and like to be on television, to be hosting stuff
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: and be able to be professional athletes at the same time.
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: That's a skill that's a trait like um. But also
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: just like I know from my personal story, like the
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: way you've helped me navigate or the way that this
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: whole thing has been navigated, where I can call you
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: up and you're a trusted voice that I can listen to,
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: and you you not only share with me like insights
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: and encouragement and prayers, but you're also very uh, you know,
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: clear and direct when I maybe am off target? Right?
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: Where does that come from for you and your brother? Like?
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: How how does that happen? Where you have two incredible
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: brothers both running these incredible lanes and able to speak
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: so much truth into the world. Yeah, that's a really
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: good question. So I think about our parents, right, People
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: talk about that all the time. Right. My parents have
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: been married for thirty seven and thirty eight years um
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: and like a strong marriage so much so that like
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: they go on date nights every Friday, right, Like I
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: don't kids, y'all do your thing? Yes, Like my dad
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: takes takes my mom on a date every single Friday. Right.
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: They celebrate things. There's this idea of like parents like
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: celebrating their children, Like that's big. I think about education
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: and as well, Right, he went to a school, a
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: really really good school. It's like the number one rated,
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: you know school in the nation, number one rated private
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: school in the nation in Dallas, Texas. So I think
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: about that piece as well. I also think about our faith, right,
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: Like I think for me and I know Emmanuel, like
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: our faith drives us. And so that's where it comes
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: to it. It's not about me winning and dominating and
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: destroying and just what it's like, how can I love
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: you well? And like when man, when I think about you,
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: I'm like, dude, how do I love you well? Think
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: about my brother? How do I love you? What when
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: I think about people who I know, like how do
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: I love them well? Even with the um even like
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: with this whole like navigating this new lane right, Like
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: when you and I texted, I didn't know Emmanuel was
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: trying to you know, had a option opportunity to in
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: the batch and stuff like I don't know his his
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: producer people, I don't know his uh his powers at
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: the you know. I was just like, hey, man, like
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: come on the show, you know, because he wanted to
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: Chriss on the show. And I think he knew like
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: what Immanuel said to me and y'all got to just
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: have him on here. But he was like, man, like,
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: this could be a good opportunity just to like for
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: Christal lack a bit of terms like clear clear his name,
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like just like let it
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: all out, um. And so anyways, I think I think
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: that comes from our faith, at least from my faith.
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: Like I'm like, all right, God, like my faith in
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: Jesus period, like trying to honor him and love well
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: and serve well. I go back to the education, right,
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: the school was big and even like that sport piece too, right,
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: being able to live in a couple of different worlds. Right.
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: He went to this predominantly white school, but a predominantly
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: black church. You mentioned. That's a church that Rachel, you know,
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: and her Rachel and her family went to as well,
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: and then like home parents who loved and cared and supported,
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: you know. But even with that piece too about Rachel,
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: Emmanuel uh going to church agre like they've been friends
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: for a long long time. Before his uncomfortable conversation started,
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: he was actually gonna do it with Rachel. This is
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: like six eight nine months ago in June. He was like, hey, Rachel,
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: let's do this thing together, like they were just friends.
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: And she couldn't do it because she was in l
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: a and he was in Austin. But She's like, hey,
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: I know I can't be there, but you go for it,
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: you know, And he went for and all of a
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: sudden blew up. And so I think about their friendship
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: and sacrifice, you know what I mean. Like, actually to
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: your question of what Immanuel have gotten the host without
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: Rachel's recommendation, Maybe maybe not. I don't know the powers
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: that be, but I do know that was a big sacrifice.
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: And do you know that carried heavyweight? Do you think
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: about football? Right? And I'm going back to these football examples.
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: I played for the Chicago Bears. The first Indian American
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: coordinator has now been hired for what I understand in
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: the NFL. His name is Shan Decide and he's been ready, right,
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: He's been ready to be a coordinator in the NFL
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: for years. But a lot of times, at least in
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: those circles, it's about who you know, and most of
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: those coaches are white or white men, so they just
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: hire people who they know, who they look like. And
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: so I remember, and and Sean decidedn't ask me to
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: do this, or didn't like text me and say hey,
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: putting a good word. I just remember like speaking out
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: for him at a video and shared it and said, hey,
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: like this guy is ready, and I just left it there,
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: and all of a sudden it caught wind and he
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: got hired. I don't think. I don't know if I
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: have that kind of power, influence or whatever, but I
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: just needed to say something because it was true. It
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: was true that Sean Decai was ready to be a coordinator.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: All these other coordinators were getting hired left and right,
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: and Sean was just getting past. It was true. And
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: so with Rachel, I think what she said, Rachel lindsay,
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: it was true, like you got the first black bachelor,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: and then you have the person who we chose is
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: has made some racially insensitive comments. You've got this guy
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: who's like literally like best friends with Oprah, doing book
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: deals with Oprah and having uncomfortable conversations with Matthew McConaughey
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: and and Chip and Joanna Gaines and Chelsea Handler and
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: the whole like l a police department. Like if anybody's
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: fit for this conversation, this guy is fit for now
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: if you want to, if you want to hire him, great,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: if you don't, great for this, but like, he's fit
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: for And I think there's something to be said about
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: about saying something and sacrificing something that it may cost you,
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: but let it. Even though it's true, a lot of
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: people wanted to see Chris on the show on after
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: the final Rows having an uncomfortable conversation with Emmanuel. Was
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: that ever on the table? If you know, Oh, I
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: have no idea, I have no idea. Yeah, I think
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: you got to have the powers that be Ashley powers
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: that they don't anything. Yeah, yeah, I don't think. I
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: don't think. I don't. I don't know. I don't think
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: that was on the table though, I think, um, yeah,
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know. And this is my first time watching
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: the show, so I don't know, like if that stuff
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: that happens but just happened on The Bachelor. Yes, I
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: know Emanuel is trying to have that conversation, but um
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: with him on the on the on his show, right right? Okay,
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: and all right, well let's I think we should dive
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: into like the macro of last night. What do you
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: think then? Yeah, let's take a break here, Let's take
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: a breather. When we come back, we're gonna break down.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: We're gonna like, we're gonna walk Sam, who has never
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: watched the show before, through a breakdown of an episode.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: It's going to be fantastic. Uh, he's gonna be along
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: for it. But let's take a break first. We'll be
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: back with almost famous podcasts. So, Sam, first episode you've
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: ever watched. The thing about finale episodes is often the
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: first two hours are like kind of negated by the
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: after the final rows because many things changed within three months.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: How did you feel overall about the episode? And then
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: what are your feelings about what was unveiled at after
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: the final rows? Yeah? So quick disclaimer. I think like
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: in high school, I might have watched a couple of episodes,
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: but not like the full thing. So I've seen kind
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: of it before the first concept bingo bingo. So and
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: also a second disclaimer. I knew Emaniel wasn't gonna be
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: ONTI that last hour, so I kind of waited until
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: I caught I caught it. I caught like the second hour. Okay,
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: so then what do you think that the conversation went? Yeah, well,
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: I just thought like when I was watching and you know,
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: no intention to offend. Actually I didn't ask questions because
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: I was like, this gotta be scripted. It's gotta be
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: because I'm like the way that, like the way that
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: Matt was like I believe that together. I'm like, God,
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: is that how people actually talk? Like? But I guess
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: when you're in the middle of the emotions. But he
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: was like, you know, and like why get the ring?
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: You know you're not about to marry her? Like did
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: they make him get the ring? Like the person was
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: coming in showing these different rings for a whole week
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: he was going to make his scene. Like I'm like, bro,
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: you know you just said you're not about to you know,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: you're not, Like I didn't all I know. All I
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: know is that you see he sent Michelle home. I
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: think Michell all right, he sent Michelle home and then
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: he said he went about to be with Rachel, so
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: why are you getting a ring? You know? And then
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: also I was like in the woods and I don't
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: know if I like y'all might have gone to say,
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: I'm like, how are you wearing high heels and a
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: dress in the woods? Like those things going through my mind,
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: like what are we doing? And so like I'm like
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: this is gonna be, you know. And then he was
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: like I don't think that you know, my my parents.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: And I'm like I'm like, okay, so are you gonna
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: marry or you're not? And then he's like we can't
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: be together or something, and then but let's date. I'm like, huh,
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: all that for this? And so I was and I
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: got y'all that might just be the thing. When I
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: was and I haven't watched, you know, so I was like, Okay,
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: what's gonna happen? You know? So but what I did love.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: What I did love was how Michelle came after and
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: after the final rose and she was like I was
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: heartbroken and I just wanted two minutes, no producer, just
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: too but just to talk and you didn't give me that.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: So that right there. So I loved that piece because
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: you gotta get you gotta chance to get behind the scenes.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, man, so I was low key mad
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: and mad, like mad, you didn't give her two minutes.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: But then I get it, like he's like, Okay, she
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: might change my mind or whatever. Um. But then and
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: I care about little things, little things, and you shouldn't
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: have hadden me on this podcast. And I'm like and
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: I'm like, why did he hug why did why did
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: why did you like she hug him at the end
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: if she was still mad, I'm like, I'm about to
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: hug you. You You didn't give me my two minutes. I'm
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: not about to sit next to you. I'm not about
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: to hug you. I'm about to sit on the other
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: side and just let you explain your piece before you
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: you know. But then, but then, but then with Rachel,
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: when they said okay, you know, Emmanuel was like, there's
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: one last chance for an embrace, and he looked at
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: her like, man, I'll know you. You know that was
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: that was wild. That was something we've never seen before.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: First off, I sort of laughed when he said your
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: last chance for an embrace, And I was like, that's
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: very interesting. But then they didn't do it, and I
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: was like, holy, can we can we just mentioned for
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: a second here? One uh side comments Sam. This is
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: how fans of The Bachelor start is by asking all
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: these questions. You're asking and be like I don't get it,
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: I don't get it. I don't get it, and then
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: you watch next season to see if you can get it,
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: and you never do for twenty years. Um. But the
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: second piece is, can we just give a little credit
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: to your brother and to this episode for how much
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: uncomfortable for lack of you know, uh irony here, uncomfortable silence.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: There was like there was moments here like for that
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: when he's like you can embrace and they just sit
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: there and your brother has to sit in that with
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: him as they just like sit there in silence, or
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: when they do like when they transition into the up
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: to the conversation, uh or the after the final rose
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: and there's just this uncomfortable silence like that just pains
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: me inside. It's so hard to watch. We can I
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: ask another question? And I know, I guess I'm becoming
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: a fan now. I don't know. No, no, no more questions,
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: No more questions, Okay, so when Matt, what is happening
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: to me? How do I know everybody's name? Now? So
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: when Matt left Michelle uh or maybe it was Rachel,
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: when you're sitting outside the hotel as a hotel or
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: somewhere sitting outside of the hotel, and then Chris came
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: and he was asking, like you know, like what it
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: was like, Yeah, you're you're you're probably confused and you're
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: probably there there probably It's like if it was me
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: and I was in matt shoes, like I feel like
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: because I feel like he had to agree with him.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: Whoever the host, you have to yeah, you're probably feel
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: like confused, you probably need to take some time to whatever.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: Can he say? No, I'm not confused. I just know
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: I don't want to be with her, like like I
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: just it was like, yeah, you probably should this, and
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: you got a lot of emotions and and Emanuel did
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: that a little bit too on the after the final
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: So I think it's like a host thing. But I'm like,
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: know what, like what would it be like if you
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: know you probably need to take some time. No, I
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: don't think i'm any time. I think I know exactly
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: what I'm doing. I think you know, can that because
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: that's what I would do. I think that's why I
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: couldn't be one of these shows. Tell me if I'm
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: confused or not. I don't know exactly what I want.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: It definitely depends on the personality, Like I think I'm
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: Ben or Matt. Personality is gonna be like, yeah, I
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: really am confused, and I'm gonna be like no, I
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: just don't like him. Up. Is that how you were
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: on your episode? To go back and watch how to
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: go back and watch this? No? No, you know I'm
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: down here. See he's so in He's all right, Well,
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: let's get to the Rachel and Matt stuff. So there
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: were rumors before that they weren't going to be together,
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: but how their breakup unfolded was interesting to me. So
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: he says that they had a honeymoon period, of course,
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: as many should have after the bachelor process is over.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: And then he said that there were rumors coming out
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: about her, but he just kind of like hoped they
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: weren't true. What I found interesting about that is they
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: weren't so much rumors as they were physical pictures. Um,
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: So it just made me go. And then he said,
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: once her apology came out. Once Rachel's apology came out,
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: that's when he realized he couldn't be with her anymore.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: How did you what were all your thoughts on this? Well?
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: First of all, so this this is filmed like three
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: months ago, right all the other stuff, so yes, and
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: then after the final rose just to clarify for the
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: viewers recorded last week, but did people know that Rachel
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: had one before yesterday or before like last week or whatever?
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: It was not for a fact. No, there was high
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: speculation in this case, just because there's been so much
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: press about her. Okay, yeah, because I was I was
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: kind of confused on the timeline, like okay, like did
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: you know whatever? Because I'm thinking this is film before,
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: but this is happening in real time. Kenny, is he
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: allowed to say anything about it? As Sheila? I didn't
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: really know that piece. So but anyways, yeah, like I
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: think I was just kind of after seeing him not
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: proposed and say like, hey, let's date, I was like, oh, yeah,
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: I've just been dating. Like this isn't even anything, you
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like I think it's been. It
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: would have been different if it was like let's get
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: married and what I don't know, it was like, hey,
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: let's date and then so so like literally like I
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: was catching up on it yesterday. Yeah. I I mean
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of people assumed the timeline was
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: weird for me as well. But you just said something
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: makes sense to me because initially, my my first reaction
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: to that when he was having a conversation with her
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: was like, come on, Matt, like this is this is
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: your partner, like you know you love each other, Like
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: are you guys breaking this off? You know? She apologized
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: why do you why are you now gone? Once the
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: apology happens, Like that was my first reaction. Now you
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: say they're dating, and I get that a little bit more.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: Now it's like, ano, they're just dating and this isn't
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: the girlfriend, right, He's made no commitment to her that
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: he necessarily wanted, and like I feel like it was
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: his girlfriend. Yeah, that was his girlfriend. They were committed couple,
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: and committed couple. He had an opportunity need to propose,
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: and he was like, man, I'll pass. Like what is
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: if that doesn't if that doesn't say anything? What does
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: like for me at least as a dude, Like it's
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: like the opportunity and maybe it's like I need more
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: to get engaged after eight weeks. I feel like it
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: was the eight weeks he didn't feel comfortable with. You mean,
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: like as a hell on the show goes for So
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: then why is anybody So let's blow up this whole thing.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: Why is anybody proposing after eight weeks? Like that's my issue?
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: Why does any like so, why do you know what
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: I mean? I get it, maybe the powers that be
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: need is to happen, but like, why is anybody proposing
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: after eight weeks? Like I knew you you know what
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, my bad band? Now did you prose that?
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: Let me? So cut that out. So like like you
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: need somebody, you need somebody for eight weeks, and then
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: like two weeks after the eight weeks or three weeks
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: after something new happens. Oh, this is new information. So
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: like I don't want to date you anymore because we
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: were just dating. That's that's the way I see it,
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: and that and that's what I'm saying. That makes sense
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: to me, Like when I watched it, you know, in
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: my head, you know, it sometimes works. I think it
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: can people get because it's the it's the weird part
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: of the show, right, nobody's gonna claim it is the
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: most effective, healthiest way to get engaged, but you know
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: it works, Like for Ashley, it worked like the show
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: worked for her, uh four times in an introduction sense.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: But the point is that, like now it makes sense
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: to me because like they were just dating and like
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: now they broke broke. He broke it off because of
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: the stuff that he found out, the new information that
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: he found out during their dating relationship period. And that's fine.
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: But I was watching it last night, I guess with
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: the perspective of like, and I never even thought, but like, oh,
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: they're engaged. You're breaking off something that you've committed to saying, Hey,
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: like I love you, I'm your partner in this, I'm
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: gonna be your teammate in this, I'm gonna i'm your
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: writer die in this. Like and as soon as you
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: make an apology then he's like, no, I can't do it.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: But if they're dating, then I guess it's it's a
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: little it makes a lot more sense to me. Now, Yeah,
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: only two things for me, and these are like my
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: only two things. I think I've said more than two things,
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: but these are going to be the two things. Um,
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: you like this show more than you're admitting to Sam.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: I know I'm not. I refused to get sucked in
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: to the powers that be. The powers that be. Now
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: I'm getting like, so the first thing was like I
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: think he knew, like let me, let me, let me
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: just get to know you. That's what it seemed like
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: at the proposal in the woods with the heels and
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: the dress, right like, let me get to know you,
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: That's what it seemed like. And so I was like, okay,
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: like people get to know people, so like that's information
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: that the part I didn't understand that I felt was
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: scripted and actually, maybe you can speak to this because
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: I know what's I think. I know it's not scripted.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: Maybe I gotta watch more to find out. But but
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: she was like, you know, both Michelle and Rachel, we're
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: like I couldn't imagine life without you, or like Michelle
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: brought out the jerseys. I don't know the significance of that.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: I think I know he played football, but there's something
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: like basketball jersey, you know, and my future and forever.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: And then Rachel was like, you know, all I see
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: in my life at this moment is you. I'm like, bro,
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: you know only for eight weeks. I could be a
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: mass murder, I could be a serial killer, like not
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: a serial but it's like there's no way, like in
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: my mind, you don't know me, So how do you?
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: How can you say that I couldn't imagine my life
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: without you, like to me, if it was me and
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: I'm a competitor, It's like, I'm gonna say what I
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: need to say to win. So what do I need
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: to say to win this guy's heart? And if I
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: need to, if I need to say that I can't
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: imagine my life without you, then I'll say it. If
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: I need to, if I need to, you know, say that,
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: hey I got these jerseys and Mrs James and Mr James,
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: then I'll say it. I just it just wasn't registering
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: to me that there's no way that y'all could just
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: be madly in love with this dude. Like and I'm
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: sure back Torett is the same way. There's no way
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: these dudes can be madly in love with this guy.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: And obviously has ever been in the bubble before you
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: go in the bubble and you'll understand. But but I
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: just need to I want to talk to you about
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: do you think that Matt broke up with Rachel solely
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: because she needs to do work on her own. Do
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: you feel like that is truly the reason that they
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: broke up, just based on what you saw last night. Yeah,
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: so based on what I saw last based on what
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: I heard I heard him say. Um, I heard him.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: I heard him say, like the work, you need to
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: do some of that work on your own. That was
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: what I heard, And I was like, Okay, I can
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: respect that, right because I think sometimes in relationship it's
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: easy to say I'm gonna change and do all these things,
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: but just so I can win. I want to win.
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: I want to win your heart. So, like I heard
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: him say, I I need you to do some of
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: that work on your own, which makes sense, but to
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: the other piece as well, like I think that there
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: needs to because I have a ton of friends and
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: interracial relationships. Um, you know, even my brother he had
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: he had Jamie and Aaron Ivy who have kids who
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: are they're white, but they have kids who were black.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: And even he had some other couples Lindsay Van and
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: uh p K sub Suban and another couple who were
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: in interracial relationships or Rachel and her You know her
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: significant other, and so I think what I know in
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: any whether it's a relationship or a friendship or even
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: with your a parent, it's like there needs to be
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: an area of understanding, of understanding and willingness to learn, right,
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: not just to say I'm willing to learn, but to
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: actually be willing to learn, right, even with the friendship. Right,
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: Ben hit me up about the thing, you know, hey
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: with Chris months ago or a month of I don't know,
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: and I never watched the show. I was like, Hey,
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: this is my friend. Let me like, let me learn.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: And I'm over here watching Extra and watching things, whether
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: or any of you know what I mean, because I
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: wanted to learn because he's my friend. And so some
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: people have that, some people develop that, and then some
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: people are like, I don't really care so much about that.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: I don't know, Like I said, I haven't. I don't
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: even know if Rachel is on social media, right, I haven't.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know what she's said or hasn't said, or posted,
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: tweeted or whatever, And so I really can't speak to that.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: But I do know in any relationship or friendship or anything,
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: it's like I want to learn about you and I'm
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: willing to, Like, I'm willing to learn about about whether
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: it's your being black in America or hey, how is
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: it being a woman in America? Or how is it
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: being a celebrity? Right, Like, I don't know actually said
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: you're married, right, I don't know if you met you
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: said you met your husband on the show. But it's like,
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: let's say you met somebody who wasn't on the show,
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: Like I would hope that they would say, like, hey, like,
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know what this world is like, but I
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: want to learn. I want to. I want to I
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: want to learn more. And so so anyways, I can't
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: speak to what he said because I don't know if
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: she has taken those steps, but you have, people have
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: to take steps to learn about other people. Well, you know,
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: we sit in a place and now though, and it's
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: it's super interesting. So we watched last night's episode. I
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: want to get your overarching thoughts because we only have
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: a few minutes left with you. Um, your overarching thoughts
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: on how last night went like with the conversations that
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: your brother was able to kind of facilitate, Um, what
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: you saw on the show, do you believe I guess
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: to ask the question to help it make it easiest
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: to answered. Do you did you find that last night's
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: episode was helpful or was it hurtful? I thought it
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: was extremely helpful, Um, just from the perspective of someone
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: I gotta come from my perspective because I'm not like
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: in the nation or whatever, so like from somebody who
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: I had been hearing about these controversies. Uh. I thought
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: it was extremely helpful. Number one for Michelle to address
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: Matt on the piece of because I caught that, like, hey,
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: whatever was a comedy said it's nice to hear I'm
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: glad you think that way or whatever that comment is, Like, hey, dude,
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: like what was the comment? Do you remember? It was?
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing? Thank you for sharing? Right, Like
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: it's like, hey, man, like guys, we gotta like actually
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: like speak up or listeners, so it's not just like, okay, well,
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: thank you for sharing. Right. So I thought that was
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: interesting on that piece. But from the racial reconciliation piece,
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: I thought it was phenomenal because Matt shared his heart,
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: Racial shared her right, and Emmanuel was asking hard questions
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: that a lot of people may not have been ready
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: or willing to ask, right because you say Okay, maybe
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: Chris somebody, Like there could have been somebody else who
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: hosted the show, and that person probably would have been
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: having those conversations. So like, from my perspective and even
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: now right actually like okay for Matt to be like, hey,
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: don't understand any of my black not understanding my blackness, Like,
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: let's talk about it, Like these are things that people
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: haven't talked about, So let's talk about it, because there
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: is a deal about being black, being a black man
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: in America, and that's like a real thing. But also,
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: as Ben can attest to you, I had Annie on
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: him and Annie on my podcast earlier, the Athletes for
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: Justice podcast, and I didn't realize that Anny downs just
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: this phenomenal woman. She's a she's a phenomenal woman. She's
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: a podcaster or New York Times bestselling author, amazing, but
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: she had some of the same fears that I have.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: M So I was like, oh wow, because we were
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: willing to go there and have those conversations. Yes, Annie,
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: whatever else, understand my blackness, but let me understand your
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: your woman nous. Let me understand that, because that's a
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: real thing. Actually, Like I don't know, like I'm not
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: sure what college you went to, but like like rape
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: culture is real, Like so I couldn't. I literally will
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: be on campus and we'll see, uh when I was
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: in college, even now walking about, we'll see a young
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: woman like walking and like in my mind, I'm like, oh, dude,
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: Like I'd be scared because I'm like, dude, what if
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: some random dude comes in like does something you know?
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: And that's a real thing. So in the same way
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: like as a black man, like driving like and then
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: we talked about this on the on the podcast, like
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: I have a fear of like driving at night by
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: myself because I'm like, if I get pulled over by
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: the wrong cop who's in the wrong mood and maybe
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: he has maybe he's racist, maybe he's racially insensitive, maybe
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: he's just scared, but I am in danger. I'm thirty
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: two year old black man. This thirty something year old
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: white woman has that same fear. And so I think
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: that I thought yesterday's episode was phenomenal because we were
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: able to have these conversations that many people are not
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: willing to have, and now we're able to ask the
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: questions and really go deeper. When I don't think anyone
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: else I don't think anyone else was fit for that conversation.
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: You know. It's it's interesting you bring up that podcast.
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: I remember any talking about putting her keys between between
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: her fingers to walk to her car um and how
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: I learned that When she said it right, I had
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: no clue. That's not a part of my life. And
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: I have to admit to that, like that's not a
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: thing I worry about. It's also not a thing I
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: worry about to drive at night, like that's something. But
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: it's helpful to have two friends sitting there telling me
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: this so that we can start to get a better
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: and I can start to get a better understanding of
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: what your lives look like like, what it is that
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: goes on because ultimately, like you said, when you bring
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: into relationships, when you go into relationship with people, you
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: want to start learning about them. That's the thing. That's
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: what the cool part about relationships is Now my question,
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: and this is gonna be it's it's it's not a
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: good question, but the conversation is now started, as we
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: finished up at the last minute here, how do we
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: continue the conversations in a healthy way from here? Like
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: we've we we've started these conversations. Let's say a month
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: ago when this interview came out, right, Um, you and
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: I both know Chris behind the scenes has continued these
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: conversations with people that we know, Um, and now you
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: know your brother sits on. After the final rose last night,
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: everybody starts talking about this. How do we not let
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: it stop here? How do we not say? How do
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: we move forward? So it feels like we're just jumping
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: to the endpoint and saying, Okay, it's all good now, right,
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: like everybody can come back and we're like going to
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: celebrate and have fun. No, Like, how do we do
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: this in a healthy way? Step by step to make
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: sure that the change is needed and done. We have
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: to be willing to be open and not take sides.
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: It's easy when you see someone like Rachel, so no
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: matter what the scenario is, just to take her side.
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: And I get that, because it's also easy to see
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: someone like Matt and no matter what the situation is,
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: to take his side. And I think we have to
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: be willing to like open up our fists like that
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: that we have clinched up, ready to pick a side
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: and fight this battle and literally listen, like my dad
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: would say, listing he's from now your listen to me. Listen,
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: like literally listen, because I think when you listen, you
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: have the ability to learn. And like that's like a
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: heart thing because even if sometimes we as you talk
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: about these issues, your heart starts to feel a little
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: bit like hot. Like man, what like I'm ready to go,
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: ready to fight from my friend or whatever. But it's
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: like what if you could be in someone's corner but
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: still love them through it, not cancel, but like imagine
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: like a boxing ring, right you're someone's in someone actually
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: is in the fight trying to win the fight. Like
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: what if we could be in their corner and say, like,
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: if you're in the corner and they're not punching, where
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: we're gonna say, here's a better way to punch. Hey,
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: you gotta like dodge a little bit, Hey, rest a
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: little bit as opposed to like jumping in the ring
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: with him and swinging and we'd be disqualified. It's like,
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: but you got to speak truth to the guy who's
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: in the fight. Nothing. That's what I was trying to say,
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: man when we first saw it, Like, hey, like what
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: if there's a way to speak truth to your friend? Um,
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: so he doesn't get beat up, you know what I mean.
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: So my final question goes off that, Um, Matt says that,
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: you know, he wants Rachel to educate herself and your
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: your brother asked if there was any chance for reconciliation
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: down the road after she's done that work. He didn't
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: seem super enthusiastic about that chance. Do you feel that
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: Matt is somebody who is ready for a relationship seeing
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: the three hours that you did yesterday? M what saw
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: like an hour and a half? Because um, yeah, I
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: think the short answer to no, Um, just the little
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: time that I saw black, Hey, I think you should.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know how old he is, but I think
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: he's still trying to figure out life, you know, Um,
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: you know. But also, how does how does somebody do
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: that in eight weeks? Like, how do you get ready
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: for a relationship in eight weeks? It's impossible that it's
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: not it's rare. It's rare. It's uh, you know what,
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: we saw a lot last night. There's a lot of
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: the thing that I love most about this show is
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: when um, the show hits reality and we're seeing Matt grow, which, Hey,
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: that's not a bad thing, right, Like I you know
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: all of us have grown just by living another day.
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: We saw your brother host I would say tremendously well, like, uh,
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: just as as good as what I could have even imagined.
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: I watched it on the edge of my seat. I was,
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: you know, I was learning, he was he was sensitive.
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: He also, like I mean, outside of everything else, Like
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: the dude really played up this bachelor hosting role. Like
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: he let people sit in silence and he was like,
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: you can embrace now, and he just sat there and
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: like in the awkwardness, like he really he owned it
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: last night. Um, Sam, you're You're the greatest man. I
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: appreciate you a lot, and I really appreciate you coming
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: on here to the almost famous podcast this this is
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: something super special for Ashley and I. Before we let
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: you go, I do we just want to mention one
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: more time. Uh, your book, Uh Let the World See
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: You is an incredible book. If you've loved listen to
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: the same, you're gonna love his book even more. UM
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: go out check it out, purchase it. Um. Sam, thanks
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: for spending some time with us today. Thank you for
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: for being there for for this podcast. And uh and
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: we'll be talking really soon, buddy. Thank you so much.
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Hey, happy anniversary. Also, that's a big deal.
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: You just celebrated it. Um awesome thing. So yeah, you're
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: just you're the best, dude. Thank you. I appreciate it, dude.
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: A Hey, Sam um Man, thank you for coming on.
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: I know it's we kept you a little longer than
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: you wanted, but um but just thanks, buddy, No, thank
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: you do you Thanks for thinking to me. And I
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: literally like, I think you texted me right around as
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: I was going to that trip, like you gotta go.
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: You gotta go because it's gonna be like water for
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: your soul. Yeah, so I'm gonna. I'm gonna, Yeah, I
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: have a couple of things I want to talk to
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: you about that. I want to talk to you about
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: that of Annie's deal. So yeah, I'll call you, so yeah,
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: hit me up. All right, buddy, Bye, It's another week,
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: which means another session of Bachelor headlines. There are many
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about him. Actually, you're our resident expert,
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: so here we go. Chris Harrison not returning to the
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: Bachelrette next season. Tasha Adams and Caitlin Bristow to co
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: host Disaccording to People, all right, well if Chris isn't
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: coming back. These girls, in my opinion, will do a
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: dandy job filling in for him. We know that you
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: guys know that we are huge fans of these two ladies,
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: Like how much did I fan Girl over during her season?
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: And Caitlin has been a friend of ours for years.
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: This is very exciting for for the two of them,
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: and I do think that there'll be great support systems
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: for at least Katie, who we know they're doing Katie's season,
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: um throughout this It's gonna be nice to have like
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: two girls to like kind of lead them. They lead
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: them with the advice throughout the process. Actually, I'm gonna
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: pause headlines here and ask you a question that I
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: think a lot of people are wondering, especially myself. Maybe
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: I'm the only one wondering this. Why do you Okay,
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: how is this gonna work? So they have Katie and
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: Michelle both announces bachelorrettes. It's not going to be the
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: Caitlin Britt situation where they have to pick and choose.
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: It's gonna be two separate seasons. So it's just so
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: explain this to me in a few minutes as short
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: as you can. Why they chose to do two bachelorette seasons,
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: which means I'm assuming they're not doing a Paradise I'm
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: making these assumptions. Tell me when I'm wrong. No, tell
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: me when I'm wrong. And right here, uh, two bachelortte
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: seasons is not doing a Paradise season. Who knows in
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: the Bachelor seasons happening? Haitlyn and Tasia around for both.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: So this means they're like working for the next six
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 1: months straight. Just just help me understand what is going on? Okay, Well,
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: the little slice that we got from them last night
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: on stage definitely didn't explain everything in the best way.
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: Their Instagram did the explaining. So first, we're gonna have
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: Katie in this s summer spring, whatever you wanna call it,
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: and then we're going to have Michelle's season in the fall.
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: But I believe that Paradise will be smushed in there.
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: And so yes, production will be working absolutely NonStop from
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: now because they start filming Katie season this week until
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: early December, literally filming every single month because it'll be
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: March and April and a little early May with Katie.
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: Then they'll jump into Paradise and do a full June shoot.
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: Then they'll be shooting July and August Michelle season, and
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: then they'll be doing the Bachelor and it's normal September
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: through November. Spot why are they doing it this way? Like?
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: Why two bachelortte seasons back to back? I guess they
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: wanted these two girls to both have opportunities. So interesting, right,
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: I mean there are rumors out there? Should I address rumors?
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, let's let's what are the rumors? What
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: are you what are you hearing? The rumor is that
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: they want The rumor, okay, you guys, is that they
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: wanted Michelle to be the Bachelorette, but she is committed
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: to teaching throughout the rest of the school year, so
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: they thought they would film with Katie during their normal
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: time slot and then then they create a new time
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: slot for Michelle. That makes sense. I mean, hey, good,
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: good on Michelle for keeping with her commitment to teach.
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: So it's amazing if that is true. If that's true,
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: it's it's it's at least an idea. Um alright, Ashley,
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: So final rumor, and you just have to help me
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: understand this. If they are going to do a Paradise
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: and I would assume now because they've already said that
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 1: Caitlin and Tatia are going to be the host for
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: the Bachelorettes, that Chris Harrison is not going to be
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: around for those, then what happens with Paradise we have
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: no clue. Okay, well, uh, speaking to Chris Harrison. The
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 1: Bachelor at co host Tasha Adams spoke with Chris Harrison
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: about replacing him. Her quote is, according to US Weekly,
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: he was so kind. Well, that's nice to hear Tasia
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: talks about how, you know, she's so honored to be
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: given this opportunity. She said that I talked to Chris
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: the other day and he was so kind and congratulated
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: me for being part of the next season. It meant
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 1: the world. With that being said, y'all, let's freaking go. Well, UM,
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: obviously there's gonna be a lot around Tasia and Caitlin
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 1: that we'll be talking about. I mean, I feel like
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: we've talked about Caitlin and Tasha for a long time.
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, Tasha as a last Bachelor and Caitlin with
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 1: Dancing with the Stars. I mean, why not just continue
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: to talk about him? UM, as they code, they're not
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: calling it hosting. UM. They're guiding supporting the bachelor's through
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 1: with the pros. It's gonna be interesting style that looks well.
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: Speaking of Tasha, fans were starting rumors that Tasha and
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 1: Zach broke up, which would break my heart if it
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: did happen, because she was seen without her ring. But
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 1: she went on I G Instagram for all those out
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: there Monday, March fift morning, stating, uh, what the ring?
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 1: Why the ring wasn't on her finger? What's going on? Ashley? Well,
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: she was like, first, guys, you were looking at my
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: right hand, so you were messed up about that in
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: the first place. But the truth of the matter is
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: I didn't even have my ring on my left hand
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: because I finally went out to l A. I went
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: to Nei Line store. They are cleaning it and sizing
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: it because this thing has felt like it's going to
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: fall off my finger for months. Now. Well, good for her.
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 1: Then that's an expensive ring and not only do you
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: get it insured, you also have to get a resize.
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: I would say the idea that she's getting at re
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: size is a good sign for their relationship. She's seeing
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 1: this thing as a long term commitment, which, hey, I'm
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: pumped about I really liked him Together to another big
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: rumor in the relationship category, Claire Crawley and Dale Moss
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 1: ruled out a long term future together after reunion. This
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: according to the News, Ashley, I'm really interested here to
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: hear what you think. Why did they get back together
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: in Florida? And then why are they ruling everything out? Okay, Well,
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: I really don't know, but a source apparently does. This
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: is a source to E News says at this point
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: in time, Claire and Dale aren't getting back together, despite
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 1: the fact that they did spend that week of February
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: sixteenth together hand in hand walking around the pool in Florida,
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: it says. The source says, they want to be friends,
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: they do want to see each other, but I don't
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: think they have a long term future together. Claire is
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 1: trying to move on, but she's still in contact with
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: Dale Um. Dale had regretted everything that happened between him
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: and Claire and has been reaching out to her recently.
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: She finally caved and decided to answer his calls and
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: talk it out, which I think led to the Florida trip. Um.
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: But she's been trying to move on and it's been
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: very hard but she did want to like see him
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: in person to have that conversation, So that's why she
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: flew to Florida. So all for all of you Bachelor
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: Nation fans out there, there's a little clarity about that relationship. Well, actually,
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: that's all the headlines we have for you today. That's
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: our podcast. It's another season in the books now, one
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: that will remember forever that we're all going to continue
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: to learn and grow from. Conversations have been started. As
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: sam Acho uh said, I Almost Famous podcast. There's been
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: a lot of podcasts in the Bachelor world over the
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: last few months, but we hope here at the Almost
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: Famous Podcast that will all be better for them, that
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: will learn and grow together. But Ashley, uh, hey, where
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 1: we did it? One more season the books, But we're
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: gonna be back starting up. It sounds like pretty soon
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: with another Bachelorte season and talking about everything Bachelor headlines
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: from here on now we're gonna bring on some awesome guests,
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: aren't we along the way? We sure are. You know,
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: this is in depth season for us, so we we
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: get very excited. Yeah, it's really fun for us, Bet
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: and I feel very fulfilled by that. Yeah, it is
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 1: well Ashley. Uh, we'll talk next time. We'll be back
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 1: next week. Thanks for listening to us. Uh. This has
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: been the almost famous podcast and I've been been signing off.
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: I've been Ashley later, guys. Bye,