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Episode 331: Rory McIlroy's Grand Slam Mentality · The Growth Project

• 0:00
  You.
• 0:03
  Welcome to the Growth Project. This is a podcast brought to you by amylose a performance psychology practice in Greenville, South Carolina. I am Doctor Milt Lauter joined by Doctor Corey Schafer today.
• 0:14
  And we're about a month out from the Masters, and a remarkable accomplishment by by Roy McElroy. And I know we are always intrigued. The story behind the story.
• 0:26
  We are not obviously the experts on the course, man. Or simply breaking down, the strategy.
• 0:32
  But what we wanted to bring today was kind of a breakdown of the mindset,
• 0:36
  that it took to accomplish something that Roy's been battling for a long time. So set the stage real quick. 2011 Maurya young prodigy.
• 0:46
  Takes the 54 hole lead at the Masters. Four shot lead into the final round. Gets to the 10th hole.
• 0:52
  Still has a lead. Triple bogeys dropped six shots. Is the final round 80. Battles back from that a couple years later. Wins the PGA Championship in 2014 at Valhalla. And you know the rise, Rory. The meteoric rise. Like all like golf and next superstar going to win all these majors. Keep up with Tiger Woods and one on an 11 year drought and it was fascinating to kind of watch this masters unfold year after year after year.
• 1:21
  And Rory not able to win the Masters, Rory not able to complete the career Grand Slam.
• 1:25
  and really what we're breaking down today, it was really just this press conference, the thoughts behind the mindset, what it takes to accomplish something that is really difficult and something that you've always dreamed of accomplishing. So there's kind of set the stage your thoughts on what we hope to accomplish with our podcast today.
• 1:43
  the plan is for us not to go shot by shot. You know, even the final round or over the course of, you know, the, the tournament,
• 1:52
  really focusing on any other players. This is about Rory. This is from his perspective. And you mentioned the press conference.
• 1:59
  You can find it on YouTube. It's about 25, 26 minutes long.
• 2:02
  But within it are so many just great talking points. And that, I think, is what we want to bring is just sort of our take our viewpoint on some of what he's saying, hopefully
• 2:14
  fill in the gaps and connect some of the dots between, you know, sort of the broader story here, as you just mentioned,
• 2:20
  as well as I think some of the moments
• 2:22
  throughout the tournament that, you know, resulted in him winning and completing the career Grand Slam and so on.
• 2:27
  So and I think it is important because even in how you set this up,
• 2:33
  and this, I guess, what kind of lead us into our first talking point, but it's not like for the last 11 years, Rory hasn't been winning. Yeah, right. He's he's still been one of the best players in the world. Yes. I would love to see, his worst ranking in that in that time span because he I mean, in my mind, he probably never was that worse than 20th in the world.
• 2:54
  Oh, yeah. Easily. Right. Or something along those lines. So he's been such a phenomenal player for a long, long time. He mentions in the press conference he's been coming to Augusta for 17 years. That's hard to believe, right? That's hard to believe.
• 3:07
  But again, he's still winning golf tournaments. You know, I went, to the players in 2019 and he won the players, which is considered like the fifth major.
• 3:17
  And it's not going to count toward, you know, a Grand Slam or anything. He came off of a win at the players. You know, a couple months back a month before the Masters. So he's been winning.
• 3:27
  But it's the in the majors major, like at the US open last year. Got the lead. You know, the majors were the were the focus here and especially Augusta.
• 3:36
  It had it had gotten to the point where it really did become a thing. But that's part of why this sort of was just looming and growing. And the weight was getting heavier and heavier year after year because he was winning. Yeah, he was winning all these other tournaments. But when it came to Augusta, it seemed to just bring out the worst in him, for a long time.
• 3:56
  So again, all that just the to sort of set the stage here in the, in the context for where we're headed. Yeah. And one disclaimer I should have made earlier, you know, we are a performance psychology practice. We operate in the field of corporate America and individual leadership and development in sports. And one of the things we believe, the mental skills that make you successful in sport, make you successful in business, make it successful in life.
• 4:21
  And so I thought this press conference and the breakdown of this story, gave us a perfect, perfect glimpse into Rory's humanity. And I think from that is where I really connected and resonated with the story. And we hope to show you with those, thoughts and ideas today for you to put into practice in your own life.
• 4:38
  kind of setting the stage, Cory, we've kind of painted the picture to me. You talked about the major. Sometimes the harder you try to accomplish something, the further away you get, and so one of the first lessons we want to talk about and Rory, kind of right out the gate in this press conference, the greatest battle often lies within.
• 4:58
  And sometimes it's easier to see that in golf than maybe in other sports. But. But when you hear Rory talk about his greatest challenge was in his own mind, what stood out to you in that process? Yeah, again, you mentioned just the humanity.
• 5:13
  he was extremely vulnerable in talking about how hard it has been and how much it just wore on him over time.
• 5:22
  And he was pretty honest, I think even coming into the tournament, this wasn't some revelation that came, you know, right after he put the green jacket on, he had been pretty open and more and more so I think in recent years about, the challenges that Augusta presented him and largely, just the weight of expectations on him that he felt.
• 5:44
  And because of that, I think, as a younger player, even going back just a few years, how that drove him to probably try too hard and to press into force. Yeah. And anybody who's ever played golf knows, and you mentioned it, but just man, the more you try to force birdies, probably the further away you're going to get.
• 6:02
  When I try to force bogeys about my, my skill level, usually the further I get. So anyways, yeah, I just just big picture. Is that it just he was so willing to discuss how hard it's been. And I think that's important for, for us, just the viewers, the general public to see, you know, these guys are not bulletproof, as you mentioned.
• 6:24
  They are human. And their willingness to share in that, I think, is really, really important perspective. You know, I think to me, he talked about the emotion and sight that he felt. And we know it's just the body's stress response when we're faced with something with which we're uncertain. He talked about he couldn't eat. If you watch him during the ball, he has a difficult time breathing.
• 6:46
  And he talked about the physiological response to stress. And he said, I think those are good things. And so to me, we talk a lot in our world about how we interpret those emotions and how we interpret those reactions. And to him, his interpretation was, hey, I'm trying to do something really difficult. I'm trying to do something really special and is supposed to feel this way.
• 7:06
  It's so much better than being apathetic, and I think too many people are disengaged, age in their work, disenfranchized with their life, and and they try to avoid the excitement and the pressure of doing something. I
• 7:18
  I remember watching the Jon Bon Jovi podcast or documentary, and they were kind of go back on their 40th tour, and I just never forget what Bon Jovi said, he said, I still want to do something great, but I don't want the pressure of having to do it.
• 7:32
  I think so many of us can resonate with that in life, is that anxiety is so overwhelming we avoid it. But Rory had to step into that and feel that anxiety and feel that pressure. And at the end of it, be proud of how we accepted that challenge and the challenge. Can I stay focused on what I can control?
• 7:50
  Can I hit the next shot? Can I give it my full attention? Can I stay within myself for 18 holes? Is what I kind of was taking from it? Or as long as it takes? Yeah,
• 8:00
  The greatest battle lies within. You could almost hear how back and forth this sort of tug of war was within himself of, you know, hey, it's a good thing that I have these nerves in this mean this matters. And, you know, I'm excited for this and that.
• 8:17
  And trying to be optimistic and reminding himself, like, I'm better, I'm a better player now than I ever would have been in the past.
• 8:24
  And but then also, how down he got after certain moments,
• 8:29
  how hard it was to stay patient, to stay positive and how emotionally draining, you know, especially that last round was just the ups and downs, like all of it. Again, there was just there literally was this back and forth that he had to fight.
• 8:42
  Yes, all day. And he said, I don't even said something along the lines of like, I don't even know how well I did with it, but like, I got it across the finish line essentially. Right. Like I did just enough, and I thought that was just a fantastic way to, to basically get straight to the heart of this idea of he he was playing against him all day.
• 9:04
  He wasn't playing against Justin Rose or Bryson DeChambeau or anybody else. So again, it was really, really interesting, kind of fascinating to hear him talk. You know, over these 20 plus minutes because you heard both sides of the coin. Yeah, yeah. And I think that's a humanity that we can all resonate with. I think specifically after, you know, hole 13, he's trying to play smart.
• 9:26
  Right. And kind of that's a par five. He's supposed to dominate the par fives. I know you didn't want me to get in specific shots. You know lays up and hits a wedge shot. You and I would hit in the creek. And and that fine line between playing smart and playing scared, playing your game and playing to win versus playing not to lose.
• 9:46
  But what he said talk about Corey. The ups and the downs. After that he asked the question am I going to give this away again? You know I've lost this in my mind. And we know when we ask those questions from a position of strength, your brain's kind of answering that question as if it's true. And so to be able to say, have I lost this?
• 10:04
  Am I giving this away? Is it going to slip from me but then be able to bounce back from that? That means accepting that challenge that we're talking about, that can you overcome the doubts and fears that exists in your own mind and keep pressing forward one shot or one day at a time? And what's crazy, though, is again, like that's his response in that moment was immediately straight to the negative.
• 10:27
  Yes. And how bad it was. His double bogey on the first hole. The first hole. His response was so good. He said that my first thought was, you know, Jon Rahm a couple of years back, when he doubled his first hole and then went on to win. So immediately he like reframed it and his interpretation was just like, all right, I'm fine.
• 10:46
  You know, essentially there went his lead. I can't remember if you went round right with a two shot. Eight. He lost a lead in the first hole. Right. So like that you know it's completely changed. But he said that actually settled my nerves. You know because of how he framed it up for himself. But then later on, you know, completely different response because he probably felt like at this point, like, hey, things are going good.
• 11:07
  I finally kind of got it under control. DeChambeau was sort of on the way down. Yeah. And then boom, double bogey. And like, did I lose it? Yeah. Yeah. And so the bounce back from that and I think to me go for our long time listeners here we talk about self-efficacy. One way to build that is vicariously. And so to think immediately John Rahm did this meaning so can I.
• 11:28
  That's like area self-efficacy. So that first lesson is how are you, challenging yourself? How are you giving yourself permission to be human? Are you accepting the battle that lies within? And are you trying to get your brain working for you or against you? That's kind of that first piece. How about number two here? Yeah. Number two, this is your language, but this is good language.
• 11:50
  I like. It is, just maturity has to match talent as our second sort of lesson or talking point here. And,
• 11:58
  about a little sooner than halfway through this, press conference, somebody finally asked him the question and basically said something along the lines of, hey, go back to 2011. If you could talk to yourself, then with the knowledge that you have now with the wisdom you have now, what would you say?
• 12:15
  Or something along these lines
• 12:18
  and Rory just gives this great little, you know, oration essentially around, like, you know, what I would see is a young man that didn't know whole lot about the world, somebody who had a lot of learning and growing up to do, somebody who didn't really understand himself, didn't understand how he even got in the position to have a 54 hole lead at the Masters and then probably didn't understand how he lost it.
• 12:44
  So just all that, all this, this, his whole answer is just this package of just incredible self-awareness, growth and maturity, that he's accrued, you know, over these last 13, 14 years since that time period. It's just was a really, really refreshing and awesome, like, honest take from a guy who just did this exceptional thing. But at least for me, just to be just a complete nerd about this kind of stuff, like, that's what I love to hear most.
• 13:14
  Yeah. You guys is like, you see the self-awareness on display here. Like, that's why he's the best player. One of the best players in the world. Yeah. And I loved his first line was not, I didn't know a thing about golf. I didn't know how to win or lose. I didn't know a thing about the world.
• 13:28
  And how much he's grown. And what that means is that maturity, match and talent. There's a few people that can kind of, grab moments of greatness.
• 13:36
  But we talked about sustaining excellence over a period of time there. You have to have the maturity and discipline to match the talent. You know. What did Calvin Coolidge say? There's nothing more common than unsuccessful people with talent.
• 13:47
  And so Rory didn't know the reasons for his success or failure. And I think a lot of us can resonate with that, especially when we're young, that we lean so much on our talent, so much on our strengths, that we fail to get beyond that and really understand what are the variables that are present. When I play my best, how am I going to respond to success?
• 14:05
  How am I going to respond to adversity? How do I maintain unwavering belief? And I think belief based on what are the things I know about me? What are the things I know to be true about my game? Not in comparison to others and not in comparison to an outcome?
• 14:22
  Yeah. And I again, I, I just love and I think more broadly here, it's really interesting because you mentioned a few people can just sort of grab greatness, right.
• 14:34
  And do it, which is such an immense amount of talent. I would argue that's how Rory kind of got on the scene. Yeah, yeah. Right there. You know, he didn't say that. But if you read between the lines, that's what he's saying, right? As I was just so talented at that point. He had won a couple of majors and was in position to complete the, complete the Grand Slam, at like 20 something years old, which is incredible, right.
• 14:59
  But if you look at some of the other guys who have kind of gone down a similar pat like a Jordan Spieth. Yeah, right. Comes on the scene as a 22 year old or something incredible wins a couple times in his first few years. And now he's in a similar boat, whereas and he hasn't won in a long time.
• 15:14
  And it's interesting to just think about, just players, people, I guess, who are on that sort of trajectory where it's almost like they just stumble, they sort of fall into, you know, this incredible position. They reach a certain level, but then finally it like sets in and now they start playing with all these expectations and the burden and responsibility that comes.
• 15:40
  And now you're supposed to act a certain way, like all of these variables get thrown on them. And this sort of dip that can come after that, and how hard it can be to stay patient and keep working through that until you hit the upswing. So. Good.
• 15:53
  just really interesting to think about. I think about what Sarah Blakely said, who founded Spanx.
• 15:58
  We've done a lot of work on her or just not, just understanding her mindset. And she said, sometimes what you don't know can be your biggest asset, right? And so when you come out of school and you're a young prodigy or talent, you know how hard it can be and you think you're going to get to whatever level of success each and every year, I this is easy and I think what the maturity part to me means when you find out life is hard and you find out things are really difficult, what are you going to rely on?
• 16:26
  That perseverance, that determination, that grit, the control, the balls? To me, that's what it was. So cool to see that that now I understand my game. And he says I'm a much better golfer now than I was back then. Right. And I know a lot of people I worked with over the years, they think that 13 or 14 or 15 year old version of them could beat the 15.
• 16:47
  I mean, the 20 year old, 25 year old, because back then they just played free without any pressure.
• 16:54
  All right. What's our third talking point here? Yeah. This is, one I really like to think about because especially in an individual sport, like golf,
• 17:01
  and especially in America, it's so easy to think about that, what we do on our own.
• 17:06
  But but what was so paramount in his press conference is it just reinforced the belief that greatness cannot occur in isolation. Or I would add out of selfish ambition. And so one of the first things they asked Rory is, hey, what was it like to have your buddy Harry on the bag? And he gets emotional talking about I've known Harry his caddy since he was seven years old, and we've been through so much together, the highs and the lows, and so being able to share that burden with someone else, someone that loves you for who you are, not what you do.
• 17:43
  Somebody that continues to believe in you, and somebody that has the gift of reminding you who you are and what's important in those really, difficult moments. And I think the biggest moment is Rory goes into a playoff, you know, he's given away the lead. Justin Rose is playing on fire. They got to go to a playoff.
• 18:02
  Rory just misses a three foot putt or four foot putt to win the don't touch the hole. And so you're thinking man how is he going to regroup. And so they said Rory like how how do you bounce back. And he's like I got to be honest. Harry said to me after scoring we're going to the 18th tee.
• 18:19
  Well pal we would have taken this on Monday. Meaning on Monday morning of the Masters. Before you ever tee off the first hole, we would have taken the play off to win the Masters. And he said, you know, you're. And so that that friend that encouragement came at the right time, that it helped to maintain that perspective. Yeah.
• 18:37
  He he actually used the word like it was like a great mental reset for me, which I thought was awesome. Yeah. So over the course of you know, his 25, 26 minute press conference, I tried to take note, of all the different people he kind of commented on. So he talked about getting a note, from and how Cabrera would.
• 18:58
  And that's the guy that he played with when he essentially imploded,
• 19:03
  in 2011. Yeah. The NFL. Cabrera won the Masters, right? And, you know, lost the big league and so on. Had a had sort of a note, some words from encouragement from inhale. Cabrera you know, he talked about, obviously his caddie, like you mentioned, I thought was fascinating.
• 19:19
  The only time he got emotional, the entire press conference when he talked about his caddie. Yeah. And their relationship. He talked about, you know, Jack Nicklaus and, Gary Player sort of, you know, basically commenting on the like, their expectation, sort of their vote of confidence in him of like, oh, yeah, he's the next guy who's going to, you know, win the Grand Slam.
• 19:41
  They had picked him to win year over year or something along those lines. So on that note right there, just on those great players, those legends of the game anointing him, you know why? He said it was flattering and at one level gives you so much confidence because they believe in you. But the other hand it wasn't very helpful.
• 19:59
  Helpful because that pressure of potential, like the expectation added so much pressure to his game.
• 20:06
  Throughout the week, his sports psychologist guy by the name of Bob Rotella, many, many people will know the name, just from reading his books and even the weekend Warriors out there trying to save a shot or two after game.
• 20:18
  Sure, you guys are familiar with Rotella, but
• 20:21
  you know him being in his corner. And one of the things I wanted to comment on here because I thought was really interesting is,
• 20:27
  Bryson DeChambeau mentioned after the round, of course, they played that final round together. Somebody ask him a question about Rory. And he was just like, yeah, I don't know.
• 20:36
  He didn't say a word to me all day. And somebody they like followed up and press me just like, no, he wouldn't talk to me like, I don't know. And so Rotella had mentioned then in one of his own little interviews of like, oh, yeah, I know that was a conscious decision on our part. He didn't want to talk to anybody, like he wanted to just sort of stay in his own.
• 20:56
  And so if you think about greatness can occur in isolation, like he knows he's got his caddie there, essentially his best friend. Right? This guy has known him for years. He knows he has all these people in his corner. But he was also deliberate about making sure he didn't let anybody else sort of penetrate that little zone, that little bubble that he had created for himself.
• 21:18
  I thought that was really interesting. So when we say, you know, greatness can occur in isolation, that doesn't mean you're just inviting everybody to the party, right? Like he knew what he needed in order to play at his best and or in order to win. And part of that meant, like, I'm not going to talk to the competition.
• 21:33
  I just thought that was an interesting little thing. Yeah, that that those reminders of who you are or what you can do, what the game plan is, people that you trust, people that believe in you, people that know your game. And I love to tell his language. That was our game plan. Not. Not Rory's not mine.
• 21:48
  That was our game plan. We're a part of a team. The other thing that I thought Rotella said was we talk about catching people doing something right, he said, I thought Rory won the tournament on Friday. You know, he had two double bogeys on Thursday, he said. I thought his response on Friday is what won the tournament, and so he had already recovered from adversity of having a couple of double bogeys previously.
• 22:10
  So when that happened again on Sunday, I mean, no champion ever has had four double bogeys in a tournament except Rory. But nobody ever had, you know, 30 threes either. I think, was part of the deal. And so when we started with six straight threes on Friday, so, so people kind of that third party affirmation, that third party confirmation sometimes can really build your confidence.
• 22:35
  Yeah. The the final talking point here. This is more just a fun one, but I think it's it's worth noting,
• 22:41
  so Rory, his ball marker that he uses, it had a quote on it from his daughter, and this actually just happened within the last couple of months, about a month or so, maybe heading into the Masters.
• 22:53
  As the story goes, Rory was leading, for a swing lesson with another legend, Butch Harmon and his daughter Poppy. Asked him, like, where are you going, dad? And his response was, just go. I've got to go get a golf lesson. And her response was, you already know how to play golf. Yeah. So he got that stamped on his ball marker, and that's a ball marker that he has used since the player's he having to win, the players having to go on to win the Masters.
• 23:22
  But I can't imagine him setting that ball marker down right anytime he gets on the green and not in his mind seeing those words from his. I don't know if I was the oldest, other is maybe 4 or 5 years. Yeah, we're in that range. Yeah.
• 23:35
  So I throw that out there. I think that, that's just a little thing, but probably a cool thing to have that perspective and a little bit of wisdom from his.
• 23:44
  Rory's quote was something along the lines of, like, it's the best piece of advice I've heard in years. And so there's like, to me, back to maturity, match talent means, can I maintain a sense of curiosity? Can I learn from everybody? Can I have a sense of humility that it's not all about me and I'm open to learn and take suggestions, but that reminder you already know how to play golf.
• 24:04
  So sometimes under pressure moments and big situations, it's so easy to focus on who you are not and what you haven't done instead of who you are, what you can do. And we let what we don't know or what we haven't done limit what we can. And so I love that little reminder on the ball. Mark. Hey, you already know how to play this game.
• 24:24
  Go be you. Remember who you are. Go play your game. Go play free. And from the mouths of babes, can become such great encouragement.
• 24:33
  our final, sort of lesson here. Talking point just about keeping things in perspective.
• 24:39
  You know, this is pretty simple. Somebody asked him, towards the end of this, of the press conference, just like, where does this rank in the best days of your life?
• 24:48
  Right. Sort of a typical media type question. And Rory's response again shows, some wisdom and some maturity and, just again, probably how much he's grown up over the years,
• 25:01
  but essentially says, you know, this is nothing compared to, getting married to having a child. But he said, this is the best day of my golf life.
• 25:12
  Yes. So again, just that answer, I think, encapsulates probably quite a bit the the arc of Rory in his career and just where he's at in life, the ability to,
• 25:24
  sort of separate golf from everything else and just, you know, understand that the bigger picture here is like, I'm a husband and my father golf is great, but it's not going to compare to that stuff.
• 25:38
  It is so hard for all of us to do, but especially those in a performance based world where the world knows what you shoot, what you make, what your status is. But if you can learn to separate who you are from what you do. That's what I took from that last question that he was proud of who he was.
• 25:56
  You know, they asked him, what are you going to be proud of? And it wasn't, hey, I'm proud that I won the Masters. I'm proud that I won that career Grand Slam. What he really said is I'm proud of how I shot. I never gave up. I kept dust myself off. I kept battling back. I overcame hard times.
• 26:11
  And so I'm proud of who I am and how I responded. Not so much what I accomplished, even though he's only one of 5 or 6 people to do it in the world ever. And I think that's what stood out to me is. And so if you can learn that art of enjoying what you do, but not letting it define you and not letting those expectations take away your joy.
• 26:34
  And I think as you look back on your life, I think it's really important to kind of think about the disappointment you've been through, the adversity you face. And how has that dimmed or put a damper on your dreams? How was that kept you from trying and moving forward? How has that kept you from pursuing your goals?
• 26:52
  Things? That's what I took from that last question is, hey, this is awesome, but I'm really proud and I have peace of mind that I never quit that I never quit believing. And so when I look back on my career, I won't regret, that I did. I just quit. Or just didn't quit, I guess is the right way to say that, right?
• 27:14
  Well, any any final thoughts or kind of takeaways? I think to me, the checklist that I would want our listeners to do, and that I've been thinking in my own mind, are these four lessons I would love for you to kind of take some time, our listeners and reflect. So we think, okay, the greatest battle lies within the question I would ask you or your thoughts working for you or against you, how are you answering the doubts and fears that exist for maturity?
• 27:37
  Matching talent? Where's the discipline and maturity in your life that I'll let you, stay focused on? What's important, to let you persevere during difficult times? Do you need to raise your level of self-awareness? The third part, the team. I think Corey is so important, right. Who's who are you listening to? Her. You inviting in to be a part of your team?
• 27:59
  And are you celebrating with your team and showing some gratitude for those that have stuck with you along the way? And then the last piece of how are you? Like, what's really important in your life? And what is it that you truly want and what are you going to regret? And can you be proud of how you showed up?
• 28:15
  So that's how I hope our listeners look at this as you and I did of okay, what what can we learn from this and how can we apply this in our life? How about you? What are your final thoughts? Yeah. No, I, I think that's all sad. I guess for me, just kind of looking ahead and even, you know, where Rory's, career kind of goes some from here will be pretty fascinating.
• 28:39
  You know, there's this truly kind of freedom up, in a way, that we haven't ever really seen him before. Does he get on a run here?
• 28:49
  if I want to say The Open Championship is in Ireland or. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so things are sort of lining up like, man he could have this legendary season. And it'll be really fascinating to see if he, just kind of unlocked something within himself there where he doesn't feel any type of burden anymore and he can just go out and, kind of be the best version of himself and play really good golf.
• 29:10
  And does that mean he wins every tournament? No, because there's some stinking good players. Yes. Right. But, I wouldn't doubt it if we saw the best version of Rory. You know, for a guy who's now pushing 40 as opposed to, Once upon a time, a young prodigy, in his early and mid 20s, who was dominating the field, like, now you got a guy who's older, wiser, as good as he's ever been and playing more freely.
• 29:38
  Yeah, like, oof, that sounds like fun. And I hope that's what you know. I hope I can go back and listen to this press conference and manage the expectations. Remember why he plays. Remember that he knows how to play the game. And he he finds joy in playing the game and not not the burden anymore. So we appreciate you joining us as always.
• 29:56
  Please, if you will, if you like what you're hearing, please, like us or, give us a review or rating. That feedback is welcome to us and always, if you have any questions, please reach out. And until we meet again, please continue to pursue better and be better.