Latest / After Maghrib 🌙 / Biden to Rishi - Muslims just don't care anymore! (Ft. Aliraza Manji)

Transcript

Biden to Rishi - Muslims just don't care anymore! (Ft. Aliraza Manji) · After Maghrib 🌙

0:00
Welcome back to the Aftermarketing podcast, wherever
0:07
you are listening around the world today, we're going to be
0:10
talking about the forthcoming election in the United Kingdom,
0:13
but more broadly the state of affairs that are concerning
0:16
Muslims in the West, whether you're in the UK or the USA, Of
0:19
course, this is a year where you have ground breaking and really
0:23
defining elections coming up in your country.
0:25
And we feel that this is a really prime opportunity to
0:28
discuss how Muslims engage politically and really whether
0:32
we're doing justice to ourselves in representing ourselves and
0:35
our views in a political system which we expect to represent US.
0:40
So in order to do that, inshallah we are going to have a
0:41
really comprehensive discussion. It doesn't matter where you live
0:44
Bruns sisters, but this is a conversation which you need to
0:46
be a part of. So if you're not in the UK,
0:49
don't stop listening and make sure you continue to listen
0:51
because this will affect you in some way, shape or form.
0:55
Before we introduce our special guest, I am delighted to
0:59
introduce a Co host by the name of Says Ali and Otherwich.
1:03
So Ali Kussain, how's it going at Hamdullah?
1:16
I'm well, Yeah, yourself. Yeah, I'm good at Hamdullah.
1:19
How are you feeling about today's conversation?
1:22
I'm feeling politically unwell. That makes sense.
1:25
Yeah. Like when it comes to politics
1:28
and just based on my life and how I see governments and
1:33
political parties, it's very clouded.
1:35
I feel like they just talk nonsense.
1:38
Like growing up, like politics meant nothing to me.
1:41
But given like the recent events happening, the atrocities we see
1:47
in the Middle East on the people of Palestine and Gaza in
1:50
particular, that has made me want to get more involved in
1:53
politics in terms of with my votes, make a change on how the
1:58
UK foreign policy will be. So that's, that's what I mean by
2:03
political. I don't want like, I want to
2:04
vote, but is there any hope in voting?
2:07
But perhaps we can get into that.
2:08
I think that's the conversation which a lot of us are are
2:10
probably having internally. And I know obviously when we put
2:13
polls out on after Magdev, we had hundreds and thank you guys.
2:16
We had hundreds and hundreds of responses and we'll get into the
2:20
conversation that we had with the audience before this was
2:23
recorded. But to help us navigate the
2:25
conversation, very delighted to introduce Anira Zamanji.
2:28
So I'm good. I'm how you doing?
2:31
Very good. Thank.
2:32
You good, good, good, good, good.
2:34
Why don't for for those who don't know you, why don't you
2:36
tell everyone about yourself what you do?
2:39
So yeah, I am a journalist. I work for Times Radio as a
2:43
producer and as a political reporter.
2:45
So I do a bit of show producing basically.
2:47
Yeah, a bit of show producing for Andrew Neil.
2:50
Of course, for those who don't know is, is the the, the most
2:54
definitely one of the largest, if not the largest political
2:56
voice or commentator in the UK. So you do incredible work and
2:59
obviously you're an expert for for a lot of people who see the
3:03
work of Muslims in the media. Maybe a question which I think a
3:08
lot of people may have is what is your end goal?
3:10
What's your personal end game? I mean, for me, it's always,
3:13
I've always had an interest in pursuing politics to wherever it
3:16
takes me because politics for me didn't start on October 7th.
3:21
Politics for me has been there throughout my childhood.
3:24
As far as I remember, my first political memory was 2010 at the
3:28
election debate, the first election debate, Nick Clegg, who
3:31
then was declared the next day, famously well telegraphed the
3:33
most popular man in Britain since Winston Churchill.
3:36
So that's my first political memory.
3:38
And that has been a thread throughout my life in wanting to
3:41
improve things, wanting to contribute.
3:43
And journalism is a, is a vehicle in that sense to be able
3:45
to hold those who, you know, we feel sometimes don't answer the
3:49
right questions, don't actually work for us sometimes, and to
3:52
make them answer the questions that we want them to answer
3:55
really. And today we have the
3:56
opportunity to ask someone in the media the questions that we
3:58
want to ask. It's always here.
4:00
We've got a nice opportunity. So I know off camera you and me
4:06
talk a lot about the thoughts of people and definitely about, I
4:11
mean, especially on the podcast over the last few months, goes
4:14
without saying, we've tried to include the the genocide in Gaza
4:19
as much as possible. I think this is a good place to
4:21
start because it affects everyone.
4:23
We all have strong views on it. What?
4:26
What do you reckon said? I reckon we all do #1 the fact
4:29
that we're Muslim, we sort of resonate with what's happening
4:32
in Gaza even more, I think, than any other faith group that's out
4:35
there. But just before I speak about
4:37
Gaza, when I first thought about voting, it was just to get a
4:43
mobile phone contract because I remember going to three back at
4:46
that time or they they didn't give their contract and they
4:48
were like, maybe if you vote, you go on the election roll,
4:50
you'll be able to take out a mobile phone contract.
4:53
So politics was nothing to me. But as I said earlier, I'm
4:56
politically unwell and, and I think everyone watching and
4:59
listening, we are a share on Muslim podcast.
5:01
This means the world to us, not just to me, my family and my
5:05
friends, my community and the people I see online, what
5:08
they're saying, what they're speaking, what I'm reading, even
5:10
even you know, people who are not even involved in politics
5:14
have now want to understand how they, as Muslims, can make a
5:19
change to ease the plight of Palestinians.
5:22
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the conversation. Is there a chance for us as
6:27
Muslims to help shape foreign policy in the Middle East?
6:32
I think there's been an awakening is what's happened.
6:34
I think most people can go out through their lives and as you
6:38
say, you did, and they can probably ignore what happens in
6:41
#10 most people can go ahead. They, they, they don't care who
6:44
enters through #10 that's not for us.
6:46
That's for them, and that's not for us.
6:48
Most people can live that life and they can fully accept that
6:51
that's the case. And therefore elections don't
6:54
matter. And, and you know, to some
6:55
extent, this election will be all about apathy.
6:57
I think apathy will be the real winner here.
6:59
But I think Gaza has shown to the Muslim population there are
7:03
issues which count more than any other.
7:05
There are issues that count for us and they are issues that
7:09
matter to us. And so, I mean, there was a
7:11
recent poll that said 80% of Muslims would put this in their
7:15
one, in their top five issues. Gaza, they didn't necessarily
7:19
say that they're different from the British public.
7:21
They didn't say that they're going to vote.
7:23
The NHS wasn't a key issue for them that for example, or any
7:26
other key issue, but they did, they did say Gaza was one of the
7:30
contributing factors. It's why they've taken up to the
7:32
streets. It's why every two weeks we see
7:34
people, millions of people on the streets of London, Paris,
7:38
Berlin, across the world. You're seeing millions of people
7:41
taking up placards, walking. Through.
7:43
It's a global cry. And I think, and I think that
7:46
that's the shift we're noticing is that Muslims previously could
7:50
feel, I wouldn't say they were taken for granted.
7:54
I wouldn't, I wouldn't go that far.
7:55
I would say that Muslims were pretty content to continue
7:58
supporting certain parties in the UK.
7:59
It's Labour mostly. They were pretty content with
8:02
where things stand. They're no different from any
8:04
other voter. What the the response to Gaza
8:06
from government, especially Western governments in our in
8:09
certain Muslims eyes has been basically quite slow.
8:13
And when you feel like you're not being listened to, that is
8:16
when people have sort of taken to the streets.
8:18
And yes, you do get a a minority people who come across as more
8:21
extreme than others. That is the nature of all
8:24
demographics. But it is the reason why people
8:27
are on the streets. So it's interesting, obviously
8:29
there's Muslims. I feel like I have a lot to say
8:33
that I feel like today you're going to hear me unload a bit as
8:35
well. But it's frustrating because we
8:38
cry and shout about under representation or even in
8:43
Islamophobia in both of the major parties or in, in, in, you
8:47
know, even in, of course, it goes without saying, but
8:49
innately in the Reform Party as well, which is now back in the
8:52
news again. But when we talk about Muslims
8:56
in politics, what drives me crazy is that we aren't
9:00
representing ourselves. And that's a huge conversation
9:03
to be had. One may argue that it's too
9:06
little too late now for a Muslim to run in politics or to run for
9:09
office because you may say that the parties, some may say are
9:13
innately Islamophobic. Some may disagree of course,
9:17
some may say that the both parties, especially in the UK,
9:19
Labour and the Conservatives or Tories as we'll call them a lot
9:22
today, are pandering towards far right opinions which are
9:25
Islamophobic or anti immigration or what what not.
9:29
Many people also say that Islamic values actually
9:32
represent the best of British values because you talk about
9:36
contribution to Civic Society, Muslims are there.
9:38
You talk about entrepreneurship, Muslims are at the forefront of
9:42
business in the UK. You talk about charitable
9:45
contributions. Muslims are the most charitable
9:47
people in the UK statistically. Family values as well, literally
9:52
family values is that was like a key point as well.
9:55
There's so many things which Muslim Muslims do to contribute
9:57
to society. Why are Muslims not we'll come
10:01
back to Gaza because I think that's very important, but
10:03
especially in this election, why are Muslims expecting to be
10:06
heard but not actually putting themselves at the forefront of
10:10
the conversation as well? I.
10:12
Think, I think for a long time, you know, you see, Muslims have
10:16
been involved. We've never been uninvolved as a
10:19
community since my parents came to this country in the 1970s.
10:22
So they've been, they've been involved, they've voted, they've
10:24
done their, their duty, I suppose, democratically.
10:27
They've always believed in voting, you know, and that I
10:31
would say that they're not, they're not going to read a
10:33
party manifesto covers cover. Yeah.
10:35
But they, they do care about who enters and who leaves.
10:40
And and so I think what's changed in some sense, and why
10:42
we don't necessarily why we're seeing that change now, is that
10:46
politics for some people is that it's a side sidestep.
10:49
It's not natural to us. It's not natural, I think for a
10:52
lot of people to want, you have to have a hell of an ego.
10:55
I have to have an ego to come here.
10:56
But you have to have a hell of an ego to want to go and enter
10:59
politics, put yourself out there like nothing else.
11:02
Your entire life is under a microscope.
11:05
And and so I think for a lot of people, they haven't wanted to
11:09
do that until there was an issue that really mattered that they
11:13
felt that they could own. And we are seeing Muslims come
11:16
out now in a way that we haven't seen previously.
11:19
Because I think that this, the conversation on Gaza is, like
11:22
you said, has been an awakening for a lot of Muslims.
11:25
And with that awakening has come two questions.
11:28
One is, should I be involved? And the 2nd is how much should I
11:31
be involved? So if I am involved, does it
11:33
stop at a protest at Marble Arch or does it go further to vote
11:37
for an independent candidate or even further to run as an
11:39
independent candidate or even challenge one of the other major
11:42
parties for what they're doing and, and you know, scrutinise
11:46
candidates there as well. Because Gaza, I think is such a
11:49
key point. And I think a lot of people want
11:52
to know and maybe you can help us understand not just in in the
11:58
UK, but also in the US as well, why are the major parties not
12:03
seeing light? And why are they not
12:06
understanding that it's a political gamble to risk the
12:09
Muslim vote, especially when they know Gaza is such a key
12:12
issue and that like especially by by and not taking the strides
12:18
that Muslims expect forward when it comes to the ceasefire calls
12:24
And when it comes to calling for humanitarian aid or using the
12:27
word genocide or even plausible genocide, why is that not a case
12:31
which we expect? I think there's an element.
12:34
I mean, if you look at the Democrats in the US, the GOP
12:38
here, you look at the Labour Party, they're all pretty much
12:40
towing along the same line roughly when it comes to this.
12:43
We haven't seen a massive differentiation.
12:45
And as positions change, they tend to go together.
12:48
The UKI mean, as far as I can remember, has voted about three
12:50
times or abstained three times at UN Security Council
12:53
resolutions when it comes to Gaza.
12:55
And I and I think when it comes to the Muslim, there are 4
12:59
million Muslims here in the UK of voting age, probably half
13:03
that maybe. And so the impact we have as a
13:07
community in some sense is not massive.
13:10
If someone doesn't listen to us, it's not going to inherently
13:13
change the results sometimes. But it is noticeable when we
13:17
start, when there is almost, it is noticeable when people are
13:21
starting to amalgamate, come into the areas and you sort of
13:25
see the ability of these independent candidates, as you
13:28
say, or even people running in certain areas trying to deceit
13:31
other people. You start to see the impact of
13:34
the Muslim vote. And that's not been seen before.
13:36
I mean, I'm going to give you an example.
13:37
You will notice anyway the the West Midlands mayoralty, which
13:40
was run for about just a month ago, basically there were 43,000
13:44
votes for Ahmed Yakoub. He's an independent candidate.
13:48
And you'd expect that in the current natural National
13:50
Treasury to be a pretty easy, lately easy Labour take.
13:55
And it didn't, they won almost by just about 1000 votes.
13:58
And that was because the independent candidate took
14:01
pretty much all of Birmingham. He took pretty much all the
14:03
votes of Birmingham. And Birmingham we know here is a
14:06
pretty much a heavily Muslim populated area.
14:09
And so there you are seeing the full on impact of the Muslim
14:13
people coming together and voting on the issue that they
14:17
care around. Because I mean, you said that
14:19
there's, there's not a, there may not be a massive shift made
14:23
by the Muslim vote, but you over 100 seats in Westminster are
14:27
affected by the Muslim vote. And it's interesting because a
14:31
lot of the blue seats, the Tory seats in the UK actually don't
14:34
have a large Muslim population. But it's actually in a lot of
14:37
those safe Labour seats, like you said, in the West Midlands,
14:40
where Labour can be hurt by Muslims voting otherwise.
14:45
Because and a lot of it, like you said, it comes back to Gaza
14:48
and Gaza is such a key issue. But say it as a voter.
14:51
And obviously this is like, I don't want to give away your
14:54
age, but what like your 4th election?
14:56
I'm 32, yeah. So your 4th election or
14:58
something like that, right. So yeah, yeah.
15:00
So based off this, yeah. What do you expect from the
15:05
parties as a voter? Like what what are you expecting
15:07
to be heard? What would change the way you
15:09
vote and and is foreign policy your key issue?
15:13
I think foreign policy for me, as I'm going to keep referring
15:16
to as a Muslim voter is the most key thing now.
15:20
It never has been to me before because I never knew the effects
15:22
it can have on other parts of the world.
15:25
But I do see the effects it has today.
15:27
And I, and I think 10s of millions around the world in the
15:31
West that live in the West as Muslims have the same thought
15:33
process as I do right now. But I think I've always been a
15:36
Labour voter. You mentioned, like, you know,
15:38
many Muslims always tend to side towards Labour and I and I and I
15:42
and I, I don't think people will stop voting Labour because based
15:48
on the conversations we've had is that if you don't vote
15:51
Labour, there's a chance the Conservatives will stay in
15:53
power. I, I, I don't know how, how
15:57
effect we can, what an effect we can have on these two political
16:00
parties, because I just hear two party system.
16:02
So no matter what you vote, whether you want to vote
16:04
independent or start voting tactically, get this MPR from
16:08
this constituency, nothing will happen.
16:10
You're either going to have Conservatives or you're going to
16:12
have the Labour Party ruling over the UK.
16:14
But if there's anything that will persuade me to vote for
16:17
Labour, it's their position on the genocide that's happening in
16:21
the and I say this why? Because we we heard Keir Starmer
16:25
many, many months ago where he came out and he said he has no
16:29
problem with. Cutting off water.
16:31
Cutting off water stolen, stopping the the the flow of
16:35
aid. So he was for collective
16:37
punishment and this didn't make sense to us and not just to
16:40
Muslims. I think the majority of the
16:41
British public is that if we stand as a country and we tell
16:45
the world we are like the police of the world alongside the
16:47
United States of America, what humanitarian law is, what
16:50
international law is, what are we doing?
16:52
So I don't think we're alone as Muslims when it comes to how we
16:55
will vote if we have always voted Labour.
16:58
But if there is a change in stance, I think if there is a
17:02
possibility of recognition of a Palestinian state, for example,
17:05
I think Muslims will rush back to Labour straight away without
17:08
voting independently or without voting tactically, because this
17:12
is something that aligns with them.
17:13
I don't know, I don't know. I mean, the, the polling does
17:17
sort of match exactly what you're saying in in some sense,
17:19
they're genuinely pretty much money.
17:22
So basically like this was a poll conducted today, All right.
17:25
And so essentially 21% of Muslim voters said it was the most
17:28
important issue for them. That's compared to just 3% of
17:31
people I. Feel like it could be a lot more
17:32
than that. And, and The thing is, it is, it
17:35
is you're wrong, you're right. 44% of Muslim voters said it was
17:39
one of their top five priorities.
17:41
And it's 86% of those polled essentially said that they would
17:44
in fact vote independent if they had to over Gaza.
17:47
And that is the dramatic change where people are seeing it
17:51
through one lens. Yes, we care about all the other
17:53
issues. Yes, Muslims care about NHS,
17:55
they care about all the other key issues that everyone else
17:57
does. We all live this life.
17:58
We all see our power strings tightened.
18:01
We all feel the strain on our public services.
18:03
We all see that. But there, there is something
18:06
here which drives us to want to say, OK, I'm going to vote
18:09
tactically and vote independent this time.
18:11
I'm going to try and stick it to the Labour Party, stick it to
18:13
the Conservative Party because you're not listening to me.
18:16
That is why the Green Party among Muslims is 2% up, Lib Dems
18:20
a little bit up. We're seeing independence up.
18:23
I mean, George Galloway in Rochdale, yes.
18:26
You know, who knows whether he retains that seat?
18:28
Obviously in Rochdale, Yeah. But it's also his endorsement to
18:30
all the candidates nationwide. Yeah, yeah.
18:32
And a key example we we were just mentioning was was W
18:36
Streeting. He's a very senior Labour
18:38
politician, shadow cabinet member, you know, a very
18:42
talented politician, a very good speaker.
18:44
The reality is he's facing a big threat from Leila Mohammed, who
18:49
is Leanne Mohammed, Sorry. Yeah.
18:51
And she's basically running as an independent involved by
18:54
Galloway. And it's Ilford.
18:55
It's, it's got a heavy Muslim population.
18:57
He's very aware of it. And in fact, he said basically
19:00
let's, I, I, I don't want to take Muslims for granted.
19:04
I, I hear you went at the local election.
19:06
He said, I hear you. I understand, I'm listening.
19:08
We want to improve this and it's not.
19:11
And this is, this is my point to you.
19:12
Labour have come out now and you know, they back a ceasefire.
19:15
They've backed it for a few months now as well.
19:16
I think January was when they came out and backed a ceasefire.
19:19
But no one's listening. It feels like that initial
19:22
interview with LBC turned off a lot of Muslim voters in this
19:25
country. Yeah, I think it showed the
19:26
truth of of, of where they stand.
19:29
I think ultimately as well, like we have an additional lens as
19:32
voters in, in the UK or even in the US when it comes to the, the
19:36
elections this year. Ultimately we, we have one extra
19:39
dimension, I think compared to like, you know, wider society
19:42
and, and people we meet day-to-day.
19:44
And that is the fact that we are Muslim and we are going to be
19:46
held accountable. Alas Pontala says we will not
19:49
change the, the state of a nation until you change
19:51
yourself. And the idea being is that we
19:53
understand that ultimately we are accountable to Alas Pontala.
19:56
And this for me has been a personal shift compared to the
19:58
last election where I feel that I am going to be asked what I've
20:01
done with my vote. And yeah, I can maybe deceit a
20:06
good MP or a good candidate which which which may challenge
20:09
a party which I don't like remaining in government.
20:12
But is it selfish for me to say that I I'm going to vote based
20:15
on what my moral consciousness says I should do?
20:18
Because like you said, voting, I really care about economic
20:22
issues. For me, on a domestic level,
20:25
it's like the number one thing, austerity right now and the cost
20:28
of living crisis. I'm a father of two young
20:31
children. It affects my family, my
20:33
society, my community, but ultimately the loss of life.
20:37
You know, whether Labour or Conservatives are in government
20:41
and when it comes to their their, their policy on Gaza,
20:44
both are fairly similar. The, the color of the blood that
20:48
Gazan children bleed is still the same.
20:52
And my vote as a Muslim cannot endorse that.
20:55
That's, that's how I feel now. And I feel that there's a lot of
20:57
people who feel the same way. And for that reason, we, we
21:00
just, we know that voting for a party which is genocidal or
21:04
endorsing genocidal acts by right wing, far right wing
21:08
administration in Tel Aviv is criminal.
21:12
You know, maybe not the vote, but but the endorsement of it is
21:14
criminal. So I think that has to be known,
21:18
which kind of leads me on to the next point about protests.
21:23
So before the podcast, we were saying that, you know, we've
21:26
everyone, it goes without saying, has received dozens and
21:29
dozens and dozens of links to petitions. e-mail your MP.
21:33
Here's a draft. The protests, of course, the
21:37
that we've seen, we are witnessing a genocide on on
21:40
social media day in day out. How effective is protests in
21:44
your opinion? And more so, is protests a form
21:48
of political engagement? I think on the second point,
21:51
firstly, it is, it really is. And I think, I think when you're
21:54
not being listened to by the government, you have no choice
21:56
to some extent to go up, go to the streets, You have to do some
21:59
form of direct action, whether that's protests, sit insurance
22:02
and obviously within the boundaries of the law of the
22:05
land of the place you live. And I think that's all very much
22:09
merited in terms of what has changed, I think because I, I
22:15
said this to you and I'll say, I'll say now is that previously
22:18
before October the 8th, I didn't believe in protest.
22:21
I fundamentally dislike people who protest.
22:23
Interesting. And I, I personally just believe
22:26
that what does protest, what has protest ever achieved in this
22:29
country? 2 million people, Yeah, against
22:32
Iraq. My father, one of them, nothing
22:34
changed. He still went into Iraq and,
22:37
and, and, and I think that is something that I never truly
22:40
believed. What difference does it make if
22:41
you walk every two weeks in centre of London?
22:44
Who's paying attention? You're just annoying some
22:46
people. That was generally my view.
22:47
My view changed when I basically realized that the parties were
22:50
on a different wavelength. They're they're not listening
22:53
and there are a bunch of people that are upset, a whole bunch of
22:56
people, a whole bunch of Muslims in this country that are very
22:59
upset and angry about what's happening.
23:02
And how can they show their discontent?
23:05
Yes, the things they should do, e-mail, e-mail and write to your
23:08
MP. Let them know because there are
23:10
some, there were, there are a lot of MPs who basically did
23:13
read the emails from their constituents and if they were
23:16
ministers, they resigned. I'm thinking Paul Bristow in
23:18
Peterborough and there were others as well who brought up
23:21
the points that their constituents were making to
23:23
them. There were others who marched
23:25
through central London and you know it, it made headlines,
23:28
people noticed and it became a thing on TV every two weeks.
23:31
Whatever the coverage was, you did see it.
23:34
And I think ultimately there was a message being made that that
23:37
we're unhappy about what's going on in Gaza.
23:39
We don't know how else to get this message to you and you're
23:42
clearly not listening to what we're saying in our emails
23:44
maybe. And you're clearly not shifting
23:46
your policy to a way we think is reasonable to what we want.
23:50
And obviously, you know, ultimately most people don't
23:53
have a have the control. Not even the opposition really
23:55
can control British foreign policy.
23:56
We have to accept that. But we are saying that we are
23:59
dissatisfied. And that's what changed.
24:01
I think if no one's listening, you have the option to protest
24:04
is ultimately political engagement.
24:05
I think that's also why people are running as independents and
24:08
why people are voting for independent because like you
24:10
said, even if you don't make the change, I mean, no one's
24:14
expecting us to wake up on on July the 5th and have an
24:17
independent Prime Minister or to, to have, you know, hundreds
24:20
of independent MPs. But the idea being is that we,
24:24
you know, change stops from somewhere in 1901 when the
24:26
Labour Party was formed, no one expected, you know, they'll say,
24:29
oh, it's great, very honorable that you, you know, you're
24:31
supporting the poor people and workers rights and so on and so
24:34
forth. But you know, it's, it starts
24:36
from somewhere. And I think there's, and I've
24:38
told you this again, that I feel that there's a void left in the
24:41
left right now, especially after Corbyn leaving the Labour Party.
24:47
And I feel like there's, there's a huge gaping hole in the left
24:51
where people are struggling to voice their opinions.
24:53
And it's being done right now in in the form of independent
24:57
runnings and through the Workers Party and through the Green
24:59
Party and all these scattered votes across different
25:02
directions where people are saying that we need somewhere to
25:05
vote anywhere except the two major parties that govern the
25:08
the two party system, the first past the post system that we
25:11
live in. So yeah.
25:13
You know, you mentioned Jeremy Corbyn and it gives me some
25:16
memories that when he had to step aside, I was actually upset
25:20
because at that point, at that time when, when, when he left
25:22
his position as leader of the Labour Party, I was like, we, I,
25:26
I felt like the UK lost someone that represented the UK,
25:30
represented the people of the United Kingdom.
25:31
Because you know, that slogan for the many, not the few.
25:34
I saw that. And Jeremy Corbyn, he was like
25:36
the only one in Parliament who was willing to stand for what
25:40
the people want rather than self-serve your own party or
25:44
self-serve your own pockets or however people want to say, you
25:48
know, some people are corrupted in terms of politics and stuff.
25:50
But I, I feel like Jeremy Corbyn was like hope.
25:53
He had that sort of hope not just for Muslims, but for every
25:57
single British family who wanted to have a better society to live
26:02
in, who wanted to have a better educational system, who wanted
26:05
to have a better welfare system, who wanted to have politics, who
26:08
listened to the people. Like I felt like he was the
26:10
representation of the United Kingdom because of the people,
26:14
the citizens of the UK. And I felt like it was a great
26:16
loss. And it's interesting, you
26:17
mentioned, by the way, you didn't believe in protest.
26:20
I had that same feeling with boycotting.
26:21
I don't know if I want to take the conversation this way, but
26:24
when it comes to protesting, I feel like it went more and it
26:27
actually became a threat to the government that, you know, what
26:31
these people are making like a shift change in the UK.
26:35
They're changing the minds of the entire United Kingdom.
26:39
So what we're going to do, we're going to use the aid of media to
26:43
make these protesters look like they're terrorists,
26:46
sympathizers, Hamas supporters or whether they are, you know,
26:50
what was the other word that they used?
26:52
Rishi Sunak used? They they go against British
26:54
values. And that's something that really
26:56
confuses me. What is British values?
26:59
What does you being in the political field, I wanna ask
27:02
what is British values? What does Rishi Sunak mean by
27:06
British values? That's.
27:09
The cause of question? I mean, I I think when the Prime
27:12
Minister came out on Downing St. he made that speech.
27:15
Yeah, he was very much referring to the victory of obviously he
27:19
was referring to the victory of George Galloway in Rochdale on
27:21
that. Day.
27:22
Sorry, the word I was looking for was hate marches.
27:24
That's what the media was playing.
27:25
And the no goes on for Jews. And all of these things, yeah.
27:28
So the hate marches basically that that was obviously in
27:31
reference to the protest having happening every two weeks.
27:35
And partially it was down. You know, there is
27:38
politicization of it, there is heavy politicization of it.
27:41
And in some, some sense it, it can tap into Islamophobia and on
27:45
the other side it can tap into anti-Semitism that that is
27:48
ultimately the truth. And, and just if I can add as
27:50
well, the fact that we have like we have to be real.
27:54
We, it's so polarized. The world we're living in,
27:56
Europe is polarizing, the US is polarizing and and the UK is
27:59
polarizing. And we have far right candidates
28:02
who are so popular despite milkshakes being thrown at them
28:05
and all sorts of other things. And we have far right candidates
28:09
in the Netherlands and yeah, in all parts of the world as well,
28:12
even in Argentina. And what we've seen across the
28:15
last few months, the the rise in popularity.
28:19
And on the flip side, you've got then in, in many cases, an
28:22
arguably centrist government or centrist elected official who
28:26
has to pander to that ideology in order to retain any hope of
28:30
re election. So we're going to see it and
28:33
we're going to see absurd connotations like that being
28:35
thrown at Muslims. And we, like I said earlier,
28:38
we've not done ourselves favours as Muslims.
28:40
Yes, we've engaged, our parents have voted, our parents have
28:43
read for manifestos and our parents have petitioned and
28:45
protested and so on and so forth.
28:47
But have our, and I'm not literally directly saying
28:51
blaming our elders because obviously we are now of, of age
28:55
to be running for, for office and what not, But are we doing
28:58
enough as a community, you know, like that?
29:00
That's the key question. And now finally we're seeing
29:02
some mobilisation in the form of the Muslim vote, who are for
29:05
those who don't know, an independent organization who are
29:08
trying to direct Muslims on where they should vote based on
29:12
as of recently, where the MPs are pro Gaza or not.
29:16
And as of recently has has rescinded their support for
29:19
Labour MPs who are pro Gaza as well if I'm not mistaken.
29:23
So I think it's interesting that there is some mobilisation for
29:27
Muslims as well. However, I still think we're so
29:30
far off the mark where we need to be.
29:33
We don't have any real inroads when it comes to policy making.
29:37
So do you think we should be in a position of power or
29:40
influence? I mean, what's what's the word
29:41
I'm? Going to bring this point to you
29:42
essentially, and it's been a point that's been made many
29:45
times over, if you are not at the table, you will be on the
29:48
menu. Muslims have been on the menu.
29:50
Muslims have been. On the menu for for as long as I
29:52
can. Remember, easy scapegoat.
29:54
Easy scapegoat. Yeah, it's easy to be talked
29:56
about if you're not the one helping to make policy
29:58
decisions. And the truth is there are, when
30:01
there was cases of Islamophobia last year, people like Sajid
30:04
Javid who come from Muslim, Muslim ethnicity, at least they
30:07
came out and they defended Muslims.
30:08
And he said, honestly, this is unacceptable.
30:10
Downing St. needs to act. And similarly, where there are
30:13
Muslims in politics, we have seen them at least descriptive
30:15
representation wise, being able to come out and say, you know,
30:19
hold on, this is Islamophobic, hold on, this is targeting
30:23
Muslims. And you need people to be able
30:25
to say that because ultimately, if no one's saying it, no one's
30:28
listening. Yeah, of course.
30:29
And, and, and, and this is this brings us back to the point
30:32
you're making. We are seeing candidates, we're
30:33
seeing, we're seeing Muslim candidates stand for the
30:35
Conservative Party in this election.
30:38
We are seeing Muslim candidates stand as independence and
30:41
obviously there are many Muslim Labour MPs and we, there are
30:45
some, some Conservative MPs already.
30:47
We're seeing this rise in the amount in Muslims from all parts
30:50
of the spectrum. But that does lead to criticism
30:53
of Muslims themselves. Why are we supporting certain
30:56
parties over others? Should our views not align
30:58
suddenly with the left? Should our, should our views
31:01
simply be off the left because that is where perhaps our
31:04
morality suggests or where our views go?
31:07
And I, I, I basically always, I, I always hold on to the idea
31:11
that, hold on, we are not synonymous with one idea.
31:15
We are all allowed to have different views on different
31:18
things, socially liberal views, socially conservative views, as
31:22
long as they are outlined with our morality.
31:25
And I think the fact there is that there are, there is a lot
31:27
of criticism that goes towards especially, I mean, I'm going to
31:30
name him Abbas Morality. He is running in Harrow W as a
31:34
conservative. He gets a lot of criticism just
31:36
based on the fact that he's running as a conservative.
31:39
Do you think it's just based on on the fact that he's running as
31:41
a conservative? I think there's a significant
31:43
amount of people who would hold him down straight away, whether
31:46
or not they believed in. What he, I don't disagree with
31:48
you. I think he would have a lot more
31:49
sympathy. And obviously we're talking
31:50
about a very specific individual and we're trying not to, to, to
31:53
endorse or critique him because obviously he's, he's, he's a
31:56
member of our community as well. So I think a lot of people would
31:59
be more sympathetic to him if he was running, as you know, with a
32:02
red tie, basically. So I agree with that.
32:05
But I, I also think you said something earlier, but just to
32:07
come back on it, I think people are voting based on, yes, voting
32:12
on morality, but it's also whether, and you know, like you
32:15
said about Muslims who can talk about Islamophobia and so on and
32:18
so forth. But at the same time, it's also,
32:20
you know, whether Muslims can actually achieve progress by
32:22
being at the table in the 1st place.
32:24
We did, just to give you an idea, we did, we asked a
32:28
question on, on Instagram. We got hundreds of responses.
32:31
Do you think practising Muslims can ever thrive in politics?
32:34
55% of people said yes, but not in the current western system.
32:38
The idea being is that in order to even get to a stage where you
32:42
can make effective change and you can effect change, you have
32:45
to the shake the hands, wine and dine with people who are voting
32:48
in favour of arms deals and are voting against cease fires.
32:52
And who are, you know, are like we said earlier, who are playing
32:59
ball with far right opinions. And to get to a certain place
33:02
you need to have those. And that's politics.
33:04
That's why it's called politics in the 1st place.
33:06
But then obviously everything we do has to come back to the
33:09
examples that were left behind by Assalamu Muhammad Sallallahu
33:13
Alaihi. And what did I mean?
33:15
And what minion do, for example, when he was in a position where
33:18
he was faced with absolutists who were against him and who
33:22
were like causing anarchy in many ways and who were going
33:25
against the tenets of of morality in many ways, he stuck
33:28
with his principles. And he did not.
33:29
Yeah, he played games. He played the he played the
33:31
political game, I should say. But at the same time, he didn't
33:34
like waver on his morals. Do you see what I mean?
33:38
And many, many people said that he infiltrated the system and he
33:40
revolutionized himself. So whether Muslims could do that
33:43
or not is the ultimate question, which is why I feel like it's
33:46
such a difficult question to answer.
33:49
My personal opinion is that I think Muslims have the ability
33:52
to thrive in this political system, but I think it has to be
33:55
done in a in a way which is on our own terms, yeah.
34:00
Yeah, I agree. I think ultimately if you're not
34:03
there, you just don't have a say in anything that affects you.
34:05
And ultimately you are. Are you not part of this
34:07
country? If you live in the US, if you
34:09
live in Canada, if you live in the UK, if you live in any
34:10
Western country, you are part of that society.
34:13
Yeah. Well, the rules of that society,
34:15
whether you like them or not, do affect you.
34:18
And the only way to have your voice heard.
34:20
And I'm going to bring up an anecdotal example based on the
34:22
reality that I know of. In November, I think it was
34:26
there was a, a certain amount of Labour shadow cabinet ministers
34:29
that resigned over Gaza. And each one of those had an
34:33
hour long meeting with Keir Starmer to explain why they were
34:36
angry with the government about Gaza.
34:38
And my personal view is that they would, they have had that
34:41
meeting without being there in that room and being able to say,
34:44
look, the we, we want to serve in your government, we want to
34:47
serve in your shadow cabinet. We can't do so because we just
34:50
disagree so heavily on Gaza with you, and I think it's important
34:54
that they had that meeting and they were in that space to have
34:56
that meeting. To get their voice heard.
34:58
And to get their voice heard and represent the people that
35:00
they're talking about us where, you know, the Muslim voters that
35:03
that elected them. And, and I think that sort of
35:08
thing matters because without it, and while, you know, while
35:13
the impact, again, we, we talk about impact as if, you know,
35:15
protest making impact, boycotts having an impact, all, all of
35:19
these things, whether they really matter.
35:21
I think if you're trying to assess impact, you may not
35:25
always get where you want. The truth is.
35:27
Sorry, sorry, sorry. Gone.
35:29
You may not always get where you want.
35:30
You may not see that you're making the endemic aim that you
35:34
want. The point isn't that, though.
35:35
This is where my view changed. The point isn't always about
35:38
impact. The point is sometimes about
35:41
being there and showing you care about the issue, showing your
35:45
support of whether that's voting in election, if that's, if
35:47
that's your thing, vote in the election.
35:49
Don't, don't reject the election because you're rejecting
35:52
democracy or rejecting the opportunity.
35:54
Whatever you want to vote, you're, and this is the key
35:56
point. You're rejecting the opportunity
35:58
to tell the tell the parties that I disagree with you.
36:01
If you want to spoil your ballot, go ahead, spoil your
36:02
ballot. If you want to vote Green, vote
36:04
green. Vote whichever party you want
36:06
to, but that is your opportunity to send a message in, in the
36:10
most democratic forms where people, parties do analyse, they
36:13
look at these things, they do realize that they've lost votes
36:15
here. You know, I've always had the
36:17
thought that Muslims should never be involved in UN Islamic
36:21
governments. I think prior to this
36:24
conversation, I think I still help hold that view.
36:27
But my, my view is changing last year and a little why?
36:29
Why now what? The reason why I'm saying
36:32
Muslims shouldn't get involved is because there is so much you
36:34
need to compromise to fit in. And there is so much that you
36:37
have to, you know, just throw down the drain in terms of your
36:40
Muslim and Islamic principles and values.
36:43
Just so that there is some leeway where you can be noticed
36:46
or heard or, you know, have an opportunity to have a position
36:49
of influence or power. And it's risky.
36:52
And what do I do as a Muslim? Let's say I now join the
36:54
conservative, Conservative Party as an example.
36:57
I have to deal with, for example, the laws of abortion.
36:59
I have to deal with, for example, the rights of LGBTQ.
37:02
What do I do as a dilemma as a Muslim?
37:04
What do I do? On the other hand, now you
37:06
mentioned the example of if you're not on the dining table,
37:09
you're pretty much on the menu. And you mentioned what did they
37:12
do? And that's what Allah sallallahu
37:13
alayhi wasallam and God be thinking while you two are
37:15
having this talk. And I'm like, you know what?
37:17
I think you're right in that aspect because if Muslims are
37:21
not in that position of influence or change, or when it
37:24
comes to, you know, being a decision maker with laws and new
37:27
changes to old laws, possibly what happens if they bring a
37:29
hijab ban? What happens if, for example,
37:33
they stop you from practicing your faith freely?
37:35
For example, you know, recently, like here we see locally in the
37:39
UK, we see not domestic issues, not foreign policy when it comes
37:43
to, for example, praying publicly in schools.
37:46
It's become a hot topic recently amongst Muslims.
37:49
And now it's it's been it's been part of the British
37:51
conversation. Should we allow people to
37:53
practice their faith freely or should we not give them any
37:55
praise space at all? So that's one example.
37:58
And then you mentioned the debate and I'm thinking, yes, he
38:04
ruled during his caliph as 4th caliph.
38:08
But during the three caliphates prior to his leadership role as
38:13
caliph, he was still advising, he was still part of answering
38:20
questions. He was still part of, you know,
38:22
helping the Muslim. So he still, he was still
38:24
involved, possibly not directly in their rule politically, but
38:29
he didn't shy away from it. They came to him directly and he
38:32
would answer even if they were the leaders, he would help them
38:35
in a system. Then I was thinking, you know,
38:36
Imam Ali Salaam, he took the position of.
38:39
Ali. He took the position position of
38:41
Crown Prince. Yeah, it does.
38:43
What does that make you think as a Muslim?
38:45
Like yes, perhaps not take leadership roles, but you take a
38:49
role where you can benefit. I'm not going to say selfishly,
38:52
but benefit Muslim. What, what what is the purpose
38:55
of politics? This is this is what you're
38:57
talking about. What is the purpose of public
38:58
politics? Public service.
39:00
Yeah. To be in the service of the
39:02
public. If you're elected as a Muslim,
39:03
if you're elected as you're a Muslim, you're elected.
39:06
Great. You're not just there to serve
39:08
your Muslim constituents. You are there to serve the
39:11
people, the people, whoever they are in your constituency, in
39:15
your area. And ultimately, that is your
39:18
duty. And in some sense, that is that
39:22
is the inherent nature of public politics and public service.
39:26
And that is why we elect politicians.
39:27
We ask them, you need to be our voice.
39:29
This is why when we have key issues, we write to them.
39:31
We let them know we care about this.
39:34
And that is the nature of public service.
39:36
And that is the nature, you know, some and some politicians
39:38
do forgo that many we've as we've noticed lately.
39:41
But the point being is that that is what the core of it is, that
39:44
you're serving your constituents.
39:45
You're serving the people who have elected you, whoever they
39:47
are. Yeah, I think it's, I think to
39:50
summarize that the points I think you guys are making is
39:53
that you have to have your voice heard as Muslims.
39:56
And I think it goes without saying that we undoubtedly and
40:00
without hesitation really, really encourage and strongly
40:06
recommend that everyone uses their vote on July the 4th in
40:09
the UK for the general elections because you have to have your
40:13
voice heard. And regardless, like you said,
40:14
who you're voting for or what your personal opinions are.
40:18
You have to make your voice heard and the the starting point
40:20
for that, at least in the current system that we live in,
40:23
is to vote. And you not voting won't make
40:26
you heard for not voting. It would just be a case of,
40:30
well, how can I listen to someone who hasn't spoken in the
40:33
1st place? If you're in a room full of
40:35
people arguing and you feel that you will be the loudest person
40:38
in the room by sitting in the corner and not saying a word,
40:41
you're not getting a point across and no one's going to pay
40:43
attention to the fact that you're not saying a word.
40:45
You see what I mean? So the analogy still stands.
40:48
I now want to kind of shift towards media.
40:50
OK. So obviously we, we've talked
40:52
about your work in, in mainstream media and the
40:54
incredible work you do. You've met a lot of really
40:58
interesting guests. A lot of people with different
41:01
levels of power in government and outside Muslims are highly
41:07
frustrated with Western media. I think goes without saying.
41:10
We feel demonized, we feel ostracized, and I think in many
41:14
cases the marginalization that Muslims have felt, especially in
41:17
the last 20 years, give or take, has meant that we now boycott
41:22
mainstream media and are looking for or starting alternative
41:27
forms of media, independent forms of media as well.
41:30
The main question which I have is when it comes to the the way
41:34
media is run as a whole, OK, how is it run?
41:38
Is it decisions that are made by individuals like yourself who
41:42
are day-to-day I'm going through running orders and arranging
41:46
bookings and speaking to guests and whatnot?
41:49
Or is it very top down And does the does the direction of media
41:54
in the country come from executives who are, you know,
41:59
making making decisions based on their own game?
42:01
I think there's AI think I would argue there's more of the it's
42:06
not necessarily top down. That's where I'll start.
42:08
So I on my day-to-day, I'll explain you what I do.
42:11
I make phone calls, I get people on to come on shows.
42:13
It's really fun. And I basically you.
42:15
Know sounds like awesome. Yeah, it was.
42:19
It was weird to be on the other end of this.
42:22
That's what I do. I call people, I get them to
42:24
come on the shows and I I work out how I want to editorialize
42:26
and how I want to treat a story. Yeah, how I want to cover it.
42:29
What? What is the best way to do it?
42:33
And I think to some extent in media, and this is being, being
42:36
fairly open, I think that sometimes can be group think.
42:39
I think if one person said it, suddenly it's true.
42:42
If one person reports it, suddenly that is the way we're
42:44
going to report it. And I think partially sometimes
42:47
that comes down to a lack of, truthfully, it comes down to a
42:49
lack of independent journalism, a lack of funding for
42:52
journalists. And that that's where I would
42:54
leave that point in terms of someone coming and telling me
42:57
from the top, this is what you're doing.
42:59
It's actually never happened. No one's told me.
43:01
This is what you can and can't do.
43:04
Often the way I decide to treat something is my decision
43:08
alongside with the presenters I work with, my colleagues, my
43:11
editors. You would often discuss it and
43:13
say, look, this is what I think will work.
43:14
And you know, you might get a yes, you may get a no.
43:16
And that's the nature of every job.
43:20
But you've, I've never had someone tell me, no, this is the
43:23
way you're doing it. You can't do it this way.
43:24
You're not allowed to discuss this.
43:26
You're not allowed to mention this.
43:27
And I think that's the truth. I think, you know, there is
43:30
scepticism. There is scepticism.
43:32
And sometimes you look at the front page of papers over the
43:34
last 10 years, even I can remember multiple front pages,
43:37
front page of the Daily Mail, for example, front pages of
43:40
other papers where you see Islamophobic tropes deployed
43:46
fairly frequently. I'm sure we can all think of a
43:48
few. And you, you basically see that
43:50
and you think, why is it that no one represents me in those
43:53
papers? Why is it that they're targeting
43:55
me? And I think partially it comes
43:58
down to a lack of Muslims in the room.
44:00
I think there's the, the truth is we we've come back to it.
44:02
There is, if there's a lack of people there who know what
44:05
you're like, you've got a bunch of people doing groupthink.
44:08
So this is the view they've taken on board.
44:10
This is the view they're going to report.
44:11
They know who their audience is. The Daily Mail knows that it's
44:14
got a 1,000,000 plus audience. They know what that audience
44:17
reads. They know what that audience
44:18
engages with. They know what they're going to
44:19
feed their audience. The more people you have in
44:23
these institutions, the view starts to shift.
44:25
They start to take on board that there are people here of that
44:29
background, they're not like the way we're saying that they are.
44:32
And that is it time, Over time that will change and you are
44:36
seeing it shift. But you are equally only going
44:39
to see that change by working within it, as opposed to
44:43
despising the system and saying Nope, they're not for me, Yeah.
44:47
Yeah, so they're more Muslims that get involved in media.
44:49
Yeah, will just benefit us as Muslims.
44:52
I I think it will. And I, and I think in my own
44:55
experience, when people say certain things, and I'm going to
44:58
tell you, I'm going to say another rough anecdote.
45:00
I was having lunch with a certain MP and I get on with him
45:04
very well. And I would consider him a quite
45:06
a close friend of mine. And he said to me, and this is
45:10
the one I knew very well. Like I said, he said to me, your
45:12
people. And so I went to him and said,
45:15
my people, who do you refer to as my people?
45:18
And of course he was talking about Muslims and I sort of made
45:22
it. And I said we are all one in the
45:24
same in the sense that I'm Muslim, but I'm also an, an
45:27
individual. And equally you don't know all
45:29
the other 4 million Muslims here in the UK.
45:32
So don't scapegoat them like that in the, in the way you are
45:35
referring to them. And I, you know, I think you can
45:37
only make those points to people and you can only make that in,
45:40
in the way that they, if they know you, you need to make
45:43
people know you. You need to make people realize
45:45
you, that you exist. You're not just numbers on a
45:48
page. You're not only people write
45:49
about from the top down view, You need to be there when
45:53
they're writing that story about you.
45:54
So for the for, for the for the many youth at home who are maybe
46:00
disenfranchised and really, really apathetic from the state
46:06
of politics and even the state of media, your advice would be
46:11
to engage rather than to disengage, because it's more
46:13
beneficial to engage when you are frustrated than to not.
46:16
Yeah, in some sense I'm, I'm quite happy to see the vast
46:20
majority of peace loving Muslims like we are, you know, engaging
46:24
in the system in the way they know how.
46:26
And that's only happened since October the 8th.
46:29
That's there's a fact in there. I think if you want to keep
46:33
engaging, the best thing to do is actually get involved.
46:36
Don't just protest, write to your MP, speak to your MP, learn
46:40
about what they're doing. You know that most, most MPs are
46:43
quite open to getting to know you to something and and it'll
46:46
only benefit you. So get to know them, build up
46:48
relationships, tell them what your concerns are and build up
46:52
that relationship because only through that can you really have
46:56
your voice represented in Parliament.
46:57
Only through that will people listen to what you say.
47:00
And I think that's what matters. And when it comes to to getting
47:02
involved in the media, it's hard to get into the media.
47:06
Yeah, I had a brief stint at the beginning of my career.
47:10
A lot of friends I know maybe interned or shadowed or did work
47:14
experience in the media and mainstream media for a bit as
47:17
well. At least I found that getting
47:20
into media when, when I was younger was, was, was difficult.
47:24
And for for you and I, we both had the same kind of people, all
47:28
the same people in some cases who helped us get into certain
47:30
roles. If you don't have that, how do
47:34
you pursue it? And what advice would you have
47:36
to some someone who is interested in pursuing a Korean
47:38
media? I mean, I, I think we probably
47:40
went through both, went through the similar struggles and the
47:43
struggle being is that there's no one like me.
47:46
You look at the TV, you don't see anyone like you don't see
47:48
anyone with similar background. You see with similar name,
47:51
barely a similar colour. That's some will change these
47:53
days. But now you look on TV and there
47:55
are people more like you and descriptive, like we've been
47:58
talking about matters, descriptive representation.
48:00
Now in terms of getting involved, it's, you know, start
48:03
inquiring in your local newsrooms, you know, everyone
48:06
has a local paper, Give them a call and say, look, I just want
48:09
to come in, see what it's like. That's where I started.
48:11
Just gave them a call, said look, I want to come in for a
48:13
few days. Work experience.
48:14
I did 48 hours of work experience and I did probably
48:17
about ten of those over the course of about two to three
48:19
years unpaid, all of them. And that's how I managed to
48:22
progress one step by step to eventually, you know, starting
48:26
to make some progress in this into this industry.
48:28
So it's not easy. And unfortunately, I, you know,
48:31
I don't come with the contacts in the world.
48:33
I didn't come with that. I didn't come with the sort of
48:35
silver spoon contacts that most some people may have.
48:37
And that's totally fine. But it's being willing and you
48:42
need to just start engaging. And you know, people are more
48:44
than willing to help you. Ultimately, you just have to
48:47
take that first initial more more than anything, brave step
48:50
and your your conceptions of the media like mine did shift from
48:54
where they were at the start to where they are now.
48:55
Interesting. Yeah.
48:56
So there isn't like a narrative as we all have in our minds.
49:01
Perhaps there is no, but you're very right.
49:04
I mean, it's it's it's a very easy thing to say.
49:07
Just blame the media and we're being misrepresented.
49:10
And, you know, things like, I think we do need to get more
49:12
involved. And I think we are seeing the
49:13
rise of this, especially also now given what happened, what
49:17
happened on the center of October and beyond until today.
49:20
And we have one example, like I think brother Mehdi Hassan,
49:24
that's a big example of how he has made shock waves in, in in
49:28
the media world, especially across across the pond on the
49:30
across the Atlantic and the USA. Now he's goes on his own brand,
49:33
his own news channel, and people are tuning in and people are
49:36
watching. And he has provided an
49:38
alternative. I was someone who is to always
49:41
read BBC News, keep up with the news.
49:43
But the way I saw they were portraying what's happening in
49:47
the Middle East, I knew it was majority, not full on lies, but
49:52
just misrepresentation of the truth.
49:55
So I needed an alternative. And I haven't opened the BBC
49:58
News app I think for over four months now.
50:01
Because if there are alternatives, if Muslims are
50:03
going into this field, there will be an opportunity where we
50:06
will be heard, we will be represented and insha'allah we
50:09
will be a faith where we can inspire people to come towards
50:13
Islam. Because the media at the moment,
50:14
I would say scares a lot of people.
50:17
Like let's go back. Let's let's go back to the USAI
50:21
remember very famous interview with then President Donald J
50:25
Trump when he told the the host of the interview that Islam has
50:32
a problem with us. I don't know if you remember
50:34
that this point. And it went viral and everyone
50:36
was like, you know what, he's right.
50:37
Muslims do have a problem with us.
50:39
Muslims do have a problem with the West.
50:40
And I think if we can have our own outlets, we can actually
50:44
present the truth as it really is.
50:46
And I think just to add to that as well, it goes to show why
50:49
funding is needed in media and that's why everyone at home
50:53
should support our sponsor, Takalane Media.
50:56
Check out what they're doing, guys.
50:58
There's incredible work. Support them.
50:59
They're doing incredible. You can visit them, download the
51:01
app Takalane Media and go to the support tab on the bottom.
51:05
This was an organic plug. Yeah, it was organic.
51:07
Plug, but no, it's really important because look, you
51:10
talked about Mehdi Hassan and Zeteo, although Mehdi Hassan and
51:13
Zeteo came about kind of in in in a good way because his time,
51:17
his airtime got cut. And obviously he wanted to speak
51:20
on such critical time. He actually came out and he'd
51:23
probably done more benefit than he thought he would have had he
51:25
stayed in his mainstream media role.
51:27
And the idea being is that he's now being able to give the the
51:29
this the airtime to issue that he thinks deserve it.
51:33
And he's representing, of course, a fabric of society or
51:35
ideology, which he feels hasn't been heard enough.
51:38
And he's now galvanized like minded people in different
51:42
industries, whether they're politicians or activists or
51:45
journalists or whatever they might be, and allowed them to
51:47
speak their thoughts on centrally, of course, Gaza, but
51:50
obviously the US elections and otherwise as well, especially
51:53
somewhat here and there in the with the UK as well.
51:56
But that's a classic example of why independent media also needs
52:00
support. I strongly believe whether
52:02
that's after Mughal, whether it's obviously we are a
52:05
different form of media because we're, we're providing a form of
52:07
entertainment or religious upliftment or whatever we want
52:09
to call it. But in terms of journalism as
52:11
well, you, you, we have to back it.
52:14
I had a I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm just going to say, I know it's
52:18
obviously a separate conversation, but say, Jawad
52:22
Kozwini had a podcast with my cast last week.
52:24
Shout out to them. Incredible podcast.
52:27
But he mentioned on this podcast, he said that our
52:30
institutions should think tactically about how we spend
52:33
our money because in many ways our organizations will spend
52:37
hundreds and thousands of pounds every Ramovan, for example,
52:41
making rice and Curry and show our mind this and that when we
52:46
can reinvest that money. And he used the example of
52:48
social media. I would even go further and say
52:51
we can invest into lobbying and think tanks or we can pull money
52:56
together for training for young and up and coming British or
53:02
whatever American teenage Muslims who are showing an
53:06
interest in media or in mainstream politics, but don't
53:09
have the training necessarily or maybe lack the qualities or even
53:13
the funding to get to and from places of work and what not, but
53:16
supporting them, university grants, scholarships, so on and
53:19
so forth. But investment on a grassroots
53:22
level. And the Muslim communities,
53:23
we're way behind on that. We're way behind.
53:26
And there's so many other communities, without naming
53:28
them, other religious communities, which put so much
53:30
emphasis on this and as a result, now dominate certain
53:34
circles. Do you see what I'm saying?
53:36
And when it comes to especially Shia Islam, we believe we have
53:39
the answers. You know, we talk about Imam
53:41
Hussain and we talk about quality of a quantity and doing
53:44
the right thing and standing against oppression and and so on
53:46
and so forth. And yeah, we love to make our
53:49
voices heard with banners and placards on protests because we
53:53
believe in rebellion and revolution and, you know,
53:55
standing up for the right thing, but on a more gradual level
53:59
through engagement. And that's a huge flaw which we
54:02
have. And I'm sorry to say, I feel
54:04
like that falls on us because we end up supporting causes which
54:09
are worthy causes, but are then saturated basically, or
54:13
receiving too much support, maybe in some cases, and not
54:18
directing our funds elsewhere. Maybe that that comes from a
54:21
leadership perspective or not directing us as donors maybe in
54:24
the right way, but it just comes back to literacy and
54:27
understanding like where we're slacking.
54:32
So yeah, it's, it's a much broader conversation, I think in
54:34
terms of the the growth and the development and the the, the
54:39
thriving of Muslims in society, be it media or politics or
54:43
otherwise. But it's definitely a
54:46
conversation that needs to be had.
54:48
Yeah. Any final thoughts for people
54:50
who are maybe now hopefully by this point in the podcast, like
54:55
a bit more convinced to to vote in the election or any last
54:58
comments I think. I would I would encourage.
55:03
All. Basically all.
55:03
Brothers and sisters, you've heard what we have to say here.
55:06
You've heard I've I've brought, I've brought everyone around.
55:09
We're all on my page now. We're all saying the same thing,
55:11
but I I think what needs to happen is on July the 4th, he
55:16
just, he makes a good politician.
55:17
Yeah, maybe it's training you need on July the 4th.
55:23
The main thing is people just need to go out there and you've
55:25
made your voices heard on the streets every Saturday a lot, a
55:29
lot, a great deal of you. The main thing you need to do is
55:31
just go out there and put a check in any box, whichever box
55:34
you want. But that is the way to get
55:37
started. And then anything further you
55:39
want to do, you know, there are plenty of ways to go out and do
55:42
that and that we've discussed them on the podcast.
55:45
Thank you. There was.
55:46
I really really really. Appreciate having you on and I
55:49
think you'll agree. Said we learnt a lot.
55:51
We did. I did I know some.
55:53
Things I I held have changed so well done and thank you for
55:58
enlighting us and allowing, I think the audience, I mean, I
56:01
mean myself to learn more about politics.
56:04
Absolutely, guys. Next week we have a really.
56:06
Fascinating conversation with a guest.
56:10
I think you'll all be very interested by someone who's out
56:13
actually not a Muslim and he's exploring Islam for the first
56:16
time and he's coming all the way down to London to engage with
56:19
us. He's extremely well known
56:21
online. So that's not a podcast you want
56:23
to miss. Inshallah.
56:24
We're recording it in the next few days, so let's just pray it
56:27
actually goes ahead. And we managed to get him on.
56:30
But make sure you tune in next week.
56:31
And also thanks once again, make sure you subscribe guys to After
56:34
Maghlib and follow us on all social media.
56:37
We will be back next week. Salaam Alaikum.