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SPOTLIGHT James Errington · Sass N Sips

• 0:10
  SPEAKER_04: Hi, and welcome to this episode of Assassin's Sips Spotlight.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_04: Today we are talking with sound artist James Errington.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_04: I'm Lisa, I'm one of your hosts, and today I am sipping on coffee.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_04: I'm keeping it simple today.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Is it caffeinated?
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_04: It is caffeinated.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm Agnes, and I am just sipping on a seltzer.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know what seltzer just came out of the fridge.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: A lime seltzer.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: I have errors to run, so I have to be you know.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Thank God for mute.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_04: And James.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm uh I'm drinking some Bailey's Irish cream.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_04: Very nice.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_04: Nice.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Me and my wife, we always joke we have um well I joke that we have the tastes of like a hundred-year-old woman in England.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Sweetened, creamy drinks and uh awful.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_04: You know what?
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_04: If that woman lived to a hundred years old, she's probably tasted a lot of things and knows what she likes.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_04: So nothing wrong with that.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: I want a white Russian, but I was at a bar in Philly and the bartender goes, I have something for you.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: And he made it taste like a Snickers bar.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: He used um frangelica instead of I don't know, whatever.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Taste just like a Snickers bar and it was creamy and cold and nice.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: And next thing I know, I was like, Whoa, I'm really fucked up.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: It was amazing.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was like six shots later, but my friends used to make uh pint of black of uh White Russian, um, sometimes black Russian, usually white Russian, before they went out clubbing.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it was four or five shots of vodka and four or five of Kaluwa, and then usually milk, sometimes Coca-Cola, but yeah, just down that before they went out.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: So nice, terrible.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: It was nice, it was nice, but yeah.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what that does to you, just drinking that much or one go.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I could do that now at my wise old age.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I'm willing to try.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_04: Funny because when I first came of age to have alcoholic beverages, that was one of the first things that I used to order was a white Russian.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was like, We don't say in the big Babowski, I guess.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: My first drink was a long island iced tea.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't say that that was my first drink.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_04: I said that was one of the first things I that was my first legal drink.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we got if you couldn't do it, do it well.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm from um the the bit of England I'm from, we we make uh cider, what you call hard cider.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: So um at the age of 16 or so, we were going out and drinking lots of cider, and I got so sick on it, I yeah, I couldn't even take the smell of it for another five years or so, just ruined it for myself.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_04: But you did go back to it?
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I got over it eventually.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, because sometimes yeah, sometimes you can't go back to it.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_04: I've I've I've had an experience like that with Fireball, and it's been almost 10 years, and I'm like, yeah, no.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_04: No, I can't do it.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Alcohol Induced Podcast.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_04: I'm going to ask you my yeah, cheers.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna ask you my silly question.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_04: What is, according to you, the silliest pizza topping?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've I've kind of come up with a I have an order of dominoes that I make, which I think is um perfect, but I'm sure most people wouldn't like it.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh ground beef, pineapples, and uh pickles.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um I always get that.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: I've found some people go along with it, some people.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: Most people don't, but I'm willing to try it.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_04: I'm willing to try it.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_04: I I I would never have thought of that combination, but I'm I'm a person who as long as the ingredients are things that I eat, I'll give it a try.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_04: It doesn't matter the combination, as long as the ingredients, yeah.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so I would eat that.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well yeah, the other the other one, um, which I I think is really good, but I um yeah, when we were in China, a common thing, well, something you see sometimes is uh durian pizza.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know durian?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's the famous uh the the fruit, it's a giant spiky fruit, and it smells like old sauce.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: So they make duries.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_04: I've never had it, but I know of it.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: And durian pizzas are amazing, but um yeah, you have to kind of get over the the fragrance of them.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: But um, they're so good.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: They're kind of the sweet pizza.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um I use it instead of the tomato sauce, right?
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I'd recommend that to most people.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_04: But um bucket list item.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think we need to try that, Lisa.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: My bucket list is all about food, and it's funny, um Lisa and I don't really not really, we don't know each other's silly question at all.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but since we've been doing that, I have to say our questions have aligned.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: It is so weird.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_04: It's just really weird because my we probably share a brain, or at least some of the cells.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: And Lisa has a brain today.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't need my okay.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: What is a food combination people eat that you just can't get behind?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, in England we don't do uh P, B, and J.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's not a thing in England.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I tried it one time and I didn't, I didn't get I didn't like it.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: This was 30, maybe 35 years ago.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe I, you know, I didn't eat many things at that time, but it didn't it didn't work for me at that point, so I didn't try it again.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I have a question with your peanut butter.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Do you guys have the peanut do you guys have peanut butter like in the jars like we do, or is it like iced peanut butter?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I don't know if there's like okay.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just curious because different and did you textures have it?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_04: Did you have it with grape jelly?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have that kind of jelly.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was it was jam, it was strawberry jam.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: It was creamy peanut butter, I think.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: I don't remember.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_04: Grape jelly is the best jelly for PBJ.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's hard to get in England though.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um I don't think I've even seen it.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: It might be somewhere.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: I could love it.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: You'd rather just come here and try it.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, I still don't like it.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um I'm sure that your food quality will put our food to shame.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_04: They don't care if we die and we're poisoned by our food here.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: It it I think in England we have a weird relationship with food, and because I've been out of the country so much, um, I I see it as weird now, but I think most people in England don't see it as weird.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's um I'll say there's there's lots of kind of good quality food.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: There's you know, the organic or whatever.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but people just they don't really care about food.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's the way I put it.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's just not something that's generally part of people's um like uh when I was in China, if you ask people what what food do you like, they can give you a half-hour speech about it.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I I know people in England who treat it it's like fuel in your car.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's all it is, yeah.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: And um and nothing weird because that gives me upset uh stomach, you know.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: But um that's uh yeah, for a lot and you know, people talk about what they like, but it's always like being naughty or uh health food or uh protein these days, and it's very rarely about enjoying food.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's very rarely what it's about.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I I don't know.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's always a debate on uh like uh social media about uh uh American versus British food, and I feel like it's the second most toxic debate that I see, transatlantic debate that I see.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um probably so it's it's it's bad, it's bad.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and I'm sure you know, ever people people in the US, um, you know, everything is personal, right?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_04: Like this this country is a very narcissistic idea ideology.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_04: I promise there's no alcohol in here today.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like maybe that's the problem.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think that was the problem.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_04: You know, somebody in another country could say, oh my god, like this restaurant makes this food amazing, and someone from the US is gonna be like, oh my god, they don't make the best food, we make the best dude.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_04: Nobody said that.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_04: Like, whoa.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm I'm sure that you have probably seen examples in like many places, but I just know that when discussions around food come up, it's a common occurrence that the ingredients that are allowed to be sold and consumed in the US are a lot more liberal.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_04: I wanted to use a fun word like liberal, because you know how people hate that word, right?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_04: But um, but then when you go to other countries and England included, there you don't see like you know as many roach parts in your food.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's like no, we're not gonna eat roaches here.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_04: We're not gonna eat these chemicals here.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_04: We're gonna make sure our people, hey, whether they like the food or they don't like the food, it's gonna be okay for them to eat.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_04: Like, not like here.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna get worse, apparently.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna get worse now.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because apparently it's the FDA wants to start, and that's our food drug administration.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's supposed to protect consumers.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: They want to base their ratings and fines and whatever on company productivity as opposed to what's good for the consumers instead of health and health.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, it's just gonna get worse.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_04: Well, it's gonna be great until all the people are dead and then no one can buy the product, and then what?
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_04: Or we're just complete zombies.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's complete zombies and just giving us the you know it'd be fine.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's fine, everything is fine.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_04: We're living in a fucking dumpster fire here.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_04: Sorry.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_04: If the flames get too close, I'll excuse myself while I blow them out.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_04: So um looking into no little research.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_04: I just want one now, but thank you.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_04: I grew up on them.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think I even have jelly.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think I have peanut butter.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_04: Anyway, we always have peanut butter and jelly here.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: So a little, so you have a very eclectic life.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: You lived in Prague, lived in China, you went to film school, and now you are now a sound artist.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: Did I get that right?
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's that's the best way to describe me, although it does usually erase more questions, but those are good questions, so all good.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so my first question is how did you fall into that?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, my first question was gonna be well, what does that mean?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I listen to somebody's podcast, so I mean so maybe that's why I I skipped that part in my head.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, but let's but let's pretend that's forget.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_04: You know what does that mean?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_04: Our buddies who are listening don't know.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, so the my main thing is called Centuries of Sound.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm making a um mixtape is the best word for it.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh uh a mixtape of every year of recorded sound, starting with the earliest recorded sounds in the 1850s and going all the way through to the present day.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's not just music, it's an immersive experience to evoke that time, and it's not the best music of that year or whatever as well.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's you know, um the things that work best, but painting a picture of that year.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's my main thing.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: I do also make some music, I make some have another podcast as well, uh, which is kind of a more experimental kind of thing.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I do some commissions sometimes for things, um, but uh yeah, that's uh a little bit different.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's not my day job.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: I do have a day job as well.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: But we it's getting towards the point where I can quit the day job.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Good for you.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully this year.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_04: I have a I have a side question.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_04: So I know that your personal podcast is called Texture and Artifact.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_03: And that's right.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_04: Artifact is spelled A-R-T-E-F-A-C-T.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_04: Is that like a British spelling?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_04: I was I wasn't sure or if it or if it like signified something else.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, thank you.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: That is something I mean I did when I chose the name, I didn't realize that it was spelled in two different ways.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Or I never knew that either.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I never knew that either.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: So how did they get into it is the other question.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um I always uh I always played around with with sounds.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: I I had I was making mixtapes when I was uh eight years old, maybe.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um that was my favorite thing to do.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: I just never realized it was a job, and all the way through high school and you know, um university, and it was only when I got into my 30s that I realized that this is some like this is the thing that I want to do.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it was just uh I was always messing around with it, really.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I never learned um instruments.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: My dad plays 10 different instruments, and uh I play none.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: I like to say I'm uh multi-talentless as far as music is concerned.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um I love that.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I just oh yeah, I I I've tried to learn piano and guitar a few times, but it doesn't work.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um so uh I think this is this is my way because I I love music and I love sound, and this is the way I see the world is through that.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: And um that's that's the way I can make my contribution to it, I guess.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's fascinating.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: I had a question and I lost it that quick because we you have to write stuff down.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_04: No, but he I know I really bring my handy dandy notebook so I can remember.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_04: All right, Steve of the Plues.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_04: That's why Steve is the Steve is the man.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_04: Let's let's not beat on Steve.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: He said he's not talented.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: I was just like, wait, that's cute.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: I gotta remember that one.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Threw me off.
• 15:52
  unknown: Yeah.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: Stilling me.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm listening to listen, not listening to answer.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_04: I figured I know, I know.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_04: That's right.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_04: It's hard.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: Multitasking is not my forte.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, in the interest of transparency, I had my grandkids last night and two toddlers, huge bed, but somehow between the two kids and the cat, I have nowhere to sleep.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't sleep well.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: It was kind of like one of these numbers.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's taking his toll.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, am I taking a muscle relaxer because I fell down the stairs twice in two days?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's terrible.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_04: It's just been a weekend.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_04: We're gonna need to get you into a house that has one floor and padded walls.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_04: Assisted living, right?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_04: There's some really nice ones around me, just FYI.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_04: Honestly, assisted living?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: Some really nice when I was like, oh, I might not meet the age requirement, but I reached the disability group.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Can I still move in?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, concierge, pool.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_04: So one of the things that you had told us was that you have lived in Prague and China.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_04: Can I ask?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_04: And and and I preface this by saying if there's ever a question that like I asked or she asks, you can say no, you don't feel comfortable asking, and we will edit that bitch right out.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_04: Like to follow.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_04: Like, edit me out, you'll just I won't exist anymore.
• 17:29
  unknown: Sure.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, so how did you come to leave England and what made you go to those places?
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's fine.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I first think I just finished university, it wasn't wasn't a great time, and uh my my friend Jamie, he um he was going to go to Prague over the s over the summer um because he'd been there before and had a good time.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: And um his girlfriend failed her exams, so she had to spend the summer resitting exams.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um so he said, Would you like to have my bus ticket, uh her bus ticket, and we'll go instead.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, Okay, great.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we got to the border.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: It was a it was a 23-hour coach journey from London.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um so we got to the border of the of uh Czech Republic, as well, and um yeah, uh they took our passports off us and then they handed them back, and it was the wrong passport.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: He brought his girlfriend's passport.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um so we were stuck there until it took uh a while for to find the passport and um then to post it over, um, and then to to get the the coach set up.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, we were there two weeks, and it was um I I just I I loved it so much that I didn't want to come home.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I did I did go back, but then I returned kind of immediately the next year and um needed a job, so I became an English teacher almost immediately.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, it was it was a it was I don't know, best time of my life, maybe that that that few years there.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um but do you speak language?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: I yeah.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Czech uh a little bit, not very well.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't really learn that much.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um I didn't know.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: But was it hard?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_04: Was it hard for you to be there without being fluent or was it still accessible?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I I I did have lots of I did have a fair amount of Czech friends, but um I I went to uh I went to a bar every night um which was full of uh mainly non-Czech people, Americans, quite a lot.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I you know I I the people I knew there from all over Europe as well, and um yeah, uh you know it was a very uh mixed kind of group of people and we all spoke English and the young people there speak English pretty well as well.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um was it a welcoming environment?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean I I enjoyed it um not so much because it was welcoming.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of I appreciated the the frostiness and uh uh non-welcome kind of vibe of it sometimes.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um the the lack of customer service, which would annoy so many of my American friends, I thought was kind of cool.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of enjoyed that.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like um you you couldn't get any um you couldn't get any like Western breakfast cereals at that point.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: This is this is like maybe 25 years ago, and um yeah, um somebody found a little shop that sold rice krispies and they drew a map for me to find it, and it was uh three trams and an hour's journey for me to get there.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I got there and I looked I looked around the shop and I couldn't find them.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I I I went I finally got up the courage to go to the uh uh surly looking woman at the front and I asked where the where are the rice crispies, and she said we stopped selling them, it was too busy.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Rice crispies, it was too busy, so they stopped selling it.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was too many people coming in.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she was having a you know, she it was ruining her day.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: She was just trying to have a nice day without any customers.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: I want to experience non-consumer, like I Lisa yells at me because I'm just always so nice.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: I feel that I have to be overly nice because people, you know, people assume things of you when they see you.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like I have to be overly nice to get them to like get.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: know me if that makes sense.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like I walk into a place of business.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, hi.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then I get normal customer service.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: I want to be able to walk somewhere, just do what I got to do and go out without.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_04: I don't want to be, I don't want to be well, it's not that you're nice.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_04: It's that you're too nice, right?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_04: Because this is the thing.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like I have to that's I know you do.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_04: I know that's besides the point.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_04: But it's not you could just say hey how are you and keep it moving.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_04: You're like, hey honey, how was your day?
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like shut up it's kind of like I have to put on it's okay I'm nice.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: You can talk to me.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna rob you.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_04: So that's why I kind of just FYI because the movies up Lisa.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: How about that?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: She likes that though.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: But I kind of want to the experience that I don't I don't expect customer service and they don't expect me to be nice and that's kind of something that I want to be like I guess it's something and you can't yes yeah I I know I know exactly what you mean I I don't you know it I've um not been very good with communication especially when I was younger and I if I go out of the house I want the the minimum of interactions possible sometimes you know and um that was great in Prague because you you can go the whole day without having to make any small talk or anything with anybody because that's that's just how they are so that's that's that's good.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: Is it and I wasn't this nice while back in New York I wasn't saying it's like being in New York City.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_04: Like everyone just side by side goes about their day.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it's fine.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_04: And you're in and out and around people but you're not really interacting.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it's and it's acceptable everyone like here's my money you take this and you can just go not that way in the midwest it's not and it's it's like the mantra London is part of that as well.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the T it's like whatever it's like the typical American tourist that you guys get overseas that's where I'm at and you're like oh oh sorry for your pain like we are familiar I mean we had we had worse English tourists in Prague though they were they were terrible so I had to avoid the area of town where they all went to oh okay so you bottles yeah you're like oh god those are my people like so then what what made you decide to leave prague and head to China?
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: To China right um well I I broke up with my girlfriend who's um uh she's called Jess from America um and maybe I don't know it all kind of seemed uh it all kind of seemed a bit like like the moment had gone like all my friends had had left and um I I went back to England and tried to live in England for a tiny bit and I worked in a call center and it was horrible and then I just said okay I I'm gonna try somewhere else so I just the the first place I I applied for a job in was China and then I got a job immediately and flew out there like a week later there was a budget airline that flew there at the time so I just flew out there without knowing anything really and just kind of arrived in this uh small city I'm I I say small million people which is small in China uh called Juhai and um there were about a hundred non-Chinese people there out of that million so I was you know instantly a celebrity so you definitely couldn't walk down the street and not have interactions with people like I'd I'd I'd walk five minutes to the supermarket and I'd have to take photos with all these two people every time which can be a novel but if you if you've got a cold or something it's the worst thing you just like don't want to leave the house you know so right because you don't want to talk to people that go like I kind of miss Prague right now.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_04: I'm always so fascinated by stories of you know when people tell their stories about leaving one place and just going to another place and they they don't know anyone and they don't know the language and it's like it's it's so fascinating but like it just shows such bravery because that's har I mean I went from one state to another state but realistically I I moved 20 miles.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean I can throw a rock and hit my old home and and I was scared so just you know the thought of of doing that on such a greater scale is just wow you know I enjoy the feeling of um getting lost that's that's something enjoyable for me and like I I I'll go to a a city if I'm traveling and um it's a long time since I did to be honest but yeah I will uh get a bike and just cycle randomly for an hour and then try to find my way back from wherever I've found myself that's um something I love doing um but yeah um I I don't know I I don't think it's it's brave I think it's just something I enjoy um I enjoy culture shock you know I think it's brave I mean because because I don't think I can do brave for me it would be brave it would take a lot of courage and like my my my my sister I brought her to China one time and um she's got a very different attitude towards it maybe maybe like yourself we went on a sleeper train to um where did we go to um Xi'an uh you know with the terracotta army in that place and um yeah it was a Chinese sleeper train.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't get the luxury one I just got the normal one and um she didn't sleep a wink she couldn't take it yeah not not not good for her but you know yeah I mean to be in the position of your sister I would be excited and you know because I'd be going with you but to be you to go all by yourself I I I really do think that it takes a lot of courage like to to be able to pick up and go I you know I'm just impulsive and don't think about things before I do them and it sometimes works out.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad it worked out so far it has been you know sometimes sometimes not I wonder also where in Europe and they travel to different countries like we travel different states.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_04: So there really isn't they're like okay yeah we just that's true go you know it is what it is like you would pick up and come see me in Wisconsin like it's nothing I know but the language is the same and but but still the travel is the country is the same ish not I mean it's difficult but you know no but I mean it's still it's coming to pick up and change in a you know in a blink.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_04: I just I I I find that so exciting and fascinating and brave and I think that I'm so enamored with those stories because it's something I don't think I can do.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: You could I got faith in you I don't know but I remember what I was going to say before so we were talking about mixtapes and for the few people that are younger than us who wants to explain to non-jit exers what a mixtape is I feel like it's something we take as a I'm sure there's some people younger than us listening to our podcast.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think maybe I don't know they still make um I mean that they say that they make things called mixtapes which is you know like a like an album is that they quite often release them as a mixtape now and I don't know what's the what's the difference between a mixtape and an album but you get lots of artists um releasing things they call mixtapes even now um usually like hip hop related but sometimes not um so they still use the word the word's still out there but um I mean it's kind of it's just come to mean like an album or something like that.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not quite sure.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean back in the day it was a it was a cassette that you put different music on and uh usually to give to somebody else to introduce them to lots of different music or yeah lots of different reasons I guess um and yeah I always made them from mix I love a good mixtape and then there was what um MySpace you had your music on your MySpace page they get the chance to know you as a person like this is the this is my favorite song.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: Now is now you just share your playlist like I just that is it that is intimate as you know someone making a mixtape for you what yeah what episode of your Sounds of the century do you say is probably I don't know your I don't want to say your favorite but one that you actually like resonated with you?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: The one I kind of come back to is 1927.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a an amazing year maybe one of the best years of recorded sound um in general and one that people are maybe not aware of um I've I've done until 1950 and I've done a selection of other ones since then um so it depends what people like really um if they don't want to hear really old music I mean I might suggest they go and check out the two mixes I just made for the year 2000 um because I'm quite happy I'm really happy with those and uh the one I made for 2016 which is where where it all started really um is uh yeah an another one that I think I'd recommend.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah 2016 go and listen to that 2016 and then if you got some balls you're gonna go to 1927.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: I love that yeah 2016 if you're very brave you can go pre-1920 or so but yeah only if you're very brave how did you get the idea for that podcast because that's amazing I I I love the idea.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_04: I love it.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: But how did it come to I yeah well I used to make um uh another podcast which was called last night a DJ Killed My Dog um not an original name but I was what it was called but it was a similar idea but it was it was it was instead of a year it was a theme um I've done all the years of the Chinese Zodiac for example um and you know uh various different the themed mixes with speech and sounds and um it was when was it 2011 2012 I was living in Beijing with my wife and my son and my wife's parents in um well not in Beijing actually that's kind of the point uh somewhere outside Beijing um with no other foreigners around and my wife's family they're they're not really into playing music in the house um so we would always get yeah my my father-in-law he wouldn't turn it off he'd just turn it down so you can hear this tiny whisper in the background so I was headphones computer finding new stuff that was what I was doing all the time and uh I thought yeah I'm gonna make a song for every year since 1900 and then I just did a bit of digging around on um internet archive and things like that and I just found oh the first thing I found was really interesting was from 1899.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: So okay and I won't do that.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I I guess it just kept building up from there.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: I spent two years I think putting together a giant database of uh every different list of music I could find and um yeah I just it was uh 2016 we moved back to the UK and uh I just thought okay now's the time I'm gonna actually start making it um and there we are nice being in China was it hard I so I don't and maybe this is gonna come off as like totally bullshit because I don't know but like I've always heard about um access and like the internet being a little bit restrictive is that um a thing or like did you not have any issues kind of researching it's a big thing now okay I mean it's it's a big thing there but um I mean when I first went to China nothing was blocked really um it was 2006 um but yeah it was uh slowly wrapped up through the years I used to know somebody who worked for MySpace in in Beijing actually um but yeah um I I mean I just relied on the VPN towards the end um everyone everyone had a VPN really um and they've got special setup for China because trying to do so much to try and block VPNs so yeah you just uh you had to invest more and more in VPNs as you as you went on and then um then I left but yeah it's it's very restricted what you can do on the internet there very restricted uh there's no Google there's no Facebook there's no um yeah social media that we use at all yeah I don't know social media okay Facebook fine Google yeah everything really any any website that you go on it's not allowed Wikipedia obviously okay that's tough that is tough I mean it's okay they've they've got their own domestic versions of these things it doesn't really impact most people day to day you know they've um they've got their own Chinese internet um yeah which you know is quite quite controlled but I mean I don't know from a user experience point of view it's not much different to what we have really but then right but then I've heard also so many positive things about how like we in the states are told all of these negative things about China but in reality things are actually a lot better than they kind of make it out to be and and I've you know I've never been to I've never been off of my continent you know so I while I try to learn I've I've not been tra you know I've I've not had the opportunity to travel so I don't know these things firsthand I just know what I you know read and I hear and whatever so I don't know how true it is well you know it's it's hard to sum up at 10 years.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's a somebody said though if you've been in China a week you can write a book and um if you've been there 10 years you can barely write a paragraph.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's um you know I I can I can list lots of great things that I love about China.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: Just I I love like walking around in the nighttime and there's all these like fruit stalls and hairdressers open and just the street feels alive and there's like um old ladies dancing formation dancing to music and stuff.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: I I really like that and in England it's so dead when it's dark it's just there's no there's streets are just silent and there's nothing going on and um yeah it feels yeah not good.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really enjoy it.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um and the food in China is so much better it's it's and not expensive either um and um yeah there's there's lots of things I love but on the downside um we we had two babies in China and the hospitals in China are they they're nicely decorated but they are kind of still third world hospitals um is what it comes down to and just the the fighting that you have to do to get to get things there.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: I had like especially this my second child also that's that was a nightmare that we'll never forget um and you know going to the bank or something like that uh dealing with any kind of bureaucracy it's that that's when you see the the bad side of China I would say um and um yeah I I don't know I could I could go on I've got a list of my 10 favourite and 10 least favourite things about about living there but um I I don't think it's uh I I I'm not gonna move back there.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think uh when the kids are old enough that they've gone off to university or whatever but I think we're gonna leave England but I don't think we're gonna go back to China.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: Not not for us really.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: My wife doesn't want to especially for example.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so she doesn't want to so you've got to follow suit got it I mean I I I would it wouldn't be you know I my my plan when I went to China was like okay this is this is me now I I work for a year and then I go traveling for six months and I work for a year and I go traveling six months and that's gonna be my life from now on.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I work for a year and then I met my wife so yeah you kind of screwed that food you kind of changed shifts real quick I love that yeah yeah so yeah what are you gonna do anyway uh how many years seven years until the youngest is off to university so just count it but who's counting right me I'm counting oh I don't I don't love I don't love living in England I never have and you know I was so happy to leave England when you know it was just like the the clouds opening and the sunlight coming out like kind of literally literally because you know the whole have you given any thought about where you would go next um yeah I I mean we we've we've talked about various different places um I I think my wife is keen to be going somewhere which is developed put it like that um but I I I'm not sure we we went for our first holiday since we moved to England this summer and we went to Turkey and it was so good.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_04: So I don't know maybe Mediterranean is is possible somewhere Mediterranean I support that have to learn another language to sell there that's it's one of the places on my list too for when I need to flee you know yeah well yeah yeah yeah but um joking aside um I'm I'm I'm like enamored to hear about travel stories because it's just like you just learned so much from being immersed in other cultures and and I think that so I'm fortunate in a sense because I grew up in New York City um but at the same time travel is hard you know so while I can experience a different culture because I live amongst my neighbors and I talk to people and you have the opportunity to learn not everyone like offers the same um I'm sorry I'm trying to like think about how to phrase it like like not everyone gets the same um Jesus Christ.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_04: There's a lot of people still stuck in their own little bubble yeah but also like you just you just there's like comparison right like you can have a friend from Country X and and you can be in their home and immersed in their language and see their decorations and eat their food but it's never going to be quite the same as if you actually went and visited their country and maybe not just visited right but visited with them and and and have the local experience versus the tourist experience right so if if I go to China I will more likely than not have the tourist experience instead of the local experience because I'm not getting on the transportation.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not like commuting back and forth to work.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not going to the supermarket I'm not looking for a job I'm not paying bills I'm not going to the hospital I'm not going to the bank so there's so much more that you get when you immerse yourself and I think that that's such an invaluable experience like it's so great.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't think I don't think everybody who I think I I'm thinking of example a a friend of mine is actually from uh Wisconsin and is back there now um maybe you know and he was also uh I don't know bro so it's a big place isn't it um but he was um uh he was in China longer than I was and also also married to a a Chinese woman who I introduced him to um and he uh he only ate like um american uh fast food he wouldn't eat Chinese food at all um in more than a decade there he he he just kind of refused to and he didn't really learn the language And um he didn't uh he kind of immersed himself in in his stuff that he was interested in.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: His wife joined him as well, and um that was fine um for them.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: They had a nice nice life there, and I don't want to judge them on that, but I don't know, it's it's not it's not what I would have done, it's not my take on things.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's lots of there's when when you when you live somewhere like Beijing, for example, there's there's lots of uh expats, especially you know, uh Americans, British, Australians, so on, um, living in a kind of bubble um where they just kind of meet each other and they're they're not kind of challenged.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of a soft landing for them.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_04: And that's that's a pretty American concept.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I'm sure other countries fall into it as well, but like, you know, everything revolves around us here, clearly.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's you know, it's I don't know.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: I I can understand why.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, when I was in Juha when I was in Juhai in the south of China, there was uh uh couple from Australia who were there for what uh I think two and a half weeks, three weeks, they they moved there, and they were just disgusted by everything.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: They just had this look of revulsion on their faces at everything.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: And kind of my fault, I took them to the wet market on their first day there because I was just yeah, I'm gonna show them my favorite places and see what they think.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: That was a bit edgy, a bit edgy of me at that age, I'm afraid.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: And uh the the the woman was just it's thorough, it's just thorough.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like that was that was what she said all the time.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I remember we had a big meal, that's there's always big meals, um, and she refused to eat anything, and she just had the bowl of rice, and she she grabbed what she thought was a bottle of soy sauce, but of course it's vinegar, and poured it all over her rice, and then took one spoonful and then grabbed her husband.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: Her poor husband was just more uh say a word, and um grabbed him and said, Okay, we're leaving, and uh they they they were gone the next day.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um they they didn't like it, so you know that's some people's experience, I guess.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, because if you look at it the other way, Lisa, like there's a lot of I don't I why is this worth I feel like it's dirty now, but anyway, some of them comfort no, we have a lot of immigrant, like there's in New York, and they and they have they're all they have they they settle down in neighborhoods where there's other um cultures for the same cultures, I think it's the same premise, and we don't think we so when you have an English speaking uh Denison, American, English, Australian in another country, they're gonna probably stick through that soft landing to yourself also.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_04: But at the same time, if if you travel to another country with the intention of living, whether it's for a week, a month, a decade, I think that it's only fair or beneficial that you try to even even if you're like, okay, you know what, like I don't speak the language and I feel very uncomfortable.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_04: So I do want to be with people who can who I can talk to, who I can write, like fine.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_04: But then try new food or try, you know, so it's like yeah, you gotta challenge yourself a little bit just past actually physically being somewhere else.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like I couldn't, I mean, I might just be eater.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I couldn't imagine living somewhere and not giving it my all.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's just me personally, but everyone is different.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm like, okay, if I fail at it, at least I know I tried I tried this for 20 years and it didn't work out.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_01: I gave it the whole hoo-ha try, you know.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh let's go to another country, let's try that one.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: But that's just who I am.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_01: And some people, especially I don't know if that couple did they travel because they wanted to, did they travel because they had to?
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, sometimes they just that's true.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't know.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I should track them down.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of I'm very interested to to see there.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, but when they were leaving, I'm so glad to get out of this shithole.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I I love it here.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: What are you talking about?
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's amazing.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, I I don't know what why they came here in the first place, it's true.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but it sounds like to me you had a much better experience because you were a lot more open to the experience, and it just worked out better.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I mean, I feel like that's that's like everything in life, right?
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_01: When you're a little bit more receptive, it sometimes works out a little bit better.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_04: It usually works out better, right?
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_04: Like or it doesn't end so bad so fast.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: So bad, so fast.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's yeah.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: As opposed to you are forced, like your job, like you are moving to this country because we you've you you don't want to go, but you're forced to.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, fuck me.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: And you go there like this, and and on day two, of course you're ready to go home because you know, but I think some people really like new experiences, and some people uh just don't like changing experiences, yeah.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's to do with that.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think you know, specifically one thing in China is Chinese people don't have the same ways to socialize as people in England or America, they don't go to bars, really.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's not not really um like if if you are somebody that goes to a bar in China, you're uh like by yourself and not for like a work party or something, then you're a bad person.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: That'll that'll be like a picture of a bad person that they tell their kids.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um I had no idea.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_00: And Chinese bars are not and not Chinese Chinese Chinese bars that are not like expat bars are weird and bad.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, generally speaking.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've been to one or two that's okay, but it's like there's a dance floor with a a model dancing on the dance floor and nobody else, and then there's all these cubicles, and in every cubicle, it's a boss with his employees and drinking shots of by GL, it's like vodka, um, and with mixed with green tea from a bottle, and uh um just yeah, uh what happens is that they will go to the dance floor at some point.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: If you know this, it's all power systems there.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: So they'll go and dance on the dance floor, and there's they'll be uh a tourist uh or an expat will go and dance with uh a woman from a work party, and then the her boss will come over and there'll be a fight.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's what are you doing dancing with my employee?
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it yeah, that's that's the what happens, unfortunately.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, uh we say you know the British went to Africa, for example, and built all these bars, social clubs and bars, and now Chinese are working in Africa building railways and things, they they build um they well they they quite often change the same buildings into uh table tennis and badminton halls.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um so you can see what's the difference what's the big difference there and uh the way they approach the world, yeah.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_04: So is that is that like how is that the social scene in China?
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_00: Is it hard to say what the social scene is?
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_04: Sports related, yeah.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um sports related, I mean dancing.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, people go and play sports or they uh like in the south, people have play mahjong as well.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um going for meals, going for meals is the big thing.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_04: So if I if I if I had a trip to China planned next week and me address, what would we do for fun there?
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_04: Like what would be acceptable or inappropriate?
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_04: Eat.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_04: I'm okay with eating.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this is why this is this is the question because it's you know, my my uh my father-in-law came over to England and he was like, What do people do for fun here?
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody's having fun.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, well, they're they're going out to the pub.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: But you won't go to the pub because like what go out to a bar and drink alcohol?
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: What yeah, that that's the objective, it's our subjective to what you find to be fun.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah, so they like they you know they go out for meals together, that's that's the big thing.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_00: And um, it's it's odd to them that we all drink without eating.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's like, why why would you drink and not eat?
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it does it's true, I do kind of understand that.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_00: It does seem a bit odd now I think about it, but um, yeah, that's that's our culture, it's not theirs.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_04: Right, you can drink without eating, but you don't eat without drinking.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, you said like not necessarily alcohol, but but yes.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_04: Like right now we're sitting here, we have drinks.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_04: You know, not not all.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean even cafes.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, even cafes are that's not about food as about coffee in China, I would say.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's it's just a yeah.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um these are the things in culture that um you know, that don't really clash and people don't really uh consider until they're until they're living there, you know.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I don't know, I know people who've been there a year or two and didn't consider it either.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_01: So do you have any okay, I have two questions.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's a two, it's a your next episode, what year or decade are you doing?
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm putting together 2025 right now.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_01: Alrighty.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like that's gonna be interesting to put down on like to listen to because it's more than just music.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure you're putting a lot of different things in there.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: So that's no, I no.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm I for the for the new episodes for the present day, I'm going quite uh I'm not putting in too many speech clips.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm mostly just mixing music.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's my that's my big thing for these.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um I don't know why it's just gonna work out that way, but the it's hard to do the research on the on the year that just happened, you know.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um what are what are the big films, the important films of last year?
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: What are the you know, they used to do clip shows of the events of the year on New Year's Eve, but they don't do that anymore.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's very annoying.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_00: No one wants to remember the place for me to get stuff from.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_01: But nobody wants to remember, and I think that's part of the problem.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um is when you are including music and sound and clips, is it from all over the world as well?
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, in in theory and so quite often in practice, but um, I mean, especially for the next year, I've got lots of music from um lots of music from the Far East and from Africa in my selection pool right now.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, I'm that's um editing down slowly.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, um, you know, America and Europe do tend to kind of dominate um just because of the the sheer mass of stuff there, and especially with speech, because you know, if it's not in English, I I probably don't understand it.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_00: So that is an issue.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I mean, I don't know.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the the the sourcing of speech clips takes me a lot of time, and um I I've kind of been getting into kind of uh dead ends with it, but I've ended up spending massive amounts of time with it, you know, um downloading big archives of radio shows to look through for clips that could be useful and um like hundreds of hours of radio shows that I'm I've I have to get through, and um I need to rationalise that a bit because it's crazy, doesn't make sense.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_00: If somebody could go out there and find them for me, that would be great.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_00: But that would be part of my creative process lost, and I think probably I wouldn't be happy with that either.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, yeah.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_00: So how much time do you spend?
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_00: No, uh go ahead, go ahead.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_04: No, I was gonna ask how much time on average do you spend researching and prepping for one episode?
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_00: I don't separately do them, but they're all part of a process, so it's really hard to say.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I'm listening uh approximately a year ahead.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm due to make 1951, but I'm about to listen to 1961, for example.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um so you know, um, I I I did used to have them out at once a month, but it's it slowed down quite a bit as I've got into difficult years, big years.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm I'm I I mean getting past the Second World War was great because that was way too depressing.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I'm I'm enjoying having, you know, I've got the 50s coming up now, so that's there's a lot of good music in the 50s.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um wasn't wasn't so much in uh the war years, I would say.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean of the 50s as far as the music, like going back there wasn't definitely an upswing.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_01: They were like the the beats were a little bit more like joyful, a little bit more yeah, I think, you know, yeah, as opposed to, you know, what was the one?
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um under the boardwalk, and it's just like love and just chill.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_01: Was that 50s?
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_00: That is 50s, I think.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that is 50s, right?
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not bad.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm not losing all my marbles.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_01: Most of my marbles.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't tell you exactly when, but uh, yeah, that is 50s.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_01: Drifters is a right answer.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_01: What does 2026 look for look like for you as for this for your sound artistry?
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I have a big project, but I've been uh I I I I don't want to say I'm doing it for sure, and I don't want to jinx it by announcing it yet.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's not gonna happen until August.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_00: So um, but uh the exciting thing that I've been uh uh given the chance to do.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I've I've I've got um as far as centuries of sound goes, I've got uh 2025 coming out, and then I've got 1951, it's probably a two-parter for 1951.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've got uh a mix for the year of the horse coming out next month as well.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh beginning of the year of the horse.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh horse-related music.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, um, it's uh those are a bit silly, but uh fun, you know.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I can't paint a picture of a horse here, you know.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it's always just reference and stuff on the centers.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um and um yeah, on to 1952.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_00: I I do a Halloween mix and a Christmas mix every year as well.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so there'll be uh 60s, 70s Halloween and Christmas mixes coming up as well.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um some texture and artifact if I can find the time to do it.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_00: I've got um uh sound recordings from a local football game I'm gonna edit together.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_00: And um I've got uh my wife talking about us moving to the UK gonna finish editing and uh uh cassettes that uh tapes that me and my cousins made in uh the the ghost club I'm gonna put out.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_00: Edited that's to be fun to listen to.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_01: And for our American listeners, he's the local football game.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh, he means I'm assuming you mean soccer?
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_01: Us American listeners.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_01: No, yeah, football.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_01: You're right, because you hit the case.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_00: We're just we're just we're just next door to Cambridge United, so yeah, uh the the the bit where you kick the ball with it with your foot.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, and that's it makes sense.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_01: It makes sense that that's actually football, honestly.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that soccer is football, and we call soccer soccer.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_01: Why do we do that?
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's gonna be difficult.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_00: What people don't um so so you know, uh the thing with the word soccer, it is used in England, but it's used by upper class people.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's got that kind of it's got that kind of upper class coding in in England, which you know uh people will will take against because we don't like upper class, yeah.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_01: Got you.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I did not know that.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_01: I just got a winkle in my brain.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, you know, that was it was a a famous private school, and they said there's there's two kinds of uh football, there's association football and there's rugby football.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_00: So rugger and soccer.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_01: Got it.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because your rugby is more like our football, but a little bit more manly.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I I don't know, just they don't they don't wear the the helmets, so their faces get kind of mashed up and they're they call them cauliflower ears and things like that.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's what it is.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's a little bit sexier to me.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, a little I don't know.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_00: I I hated at school.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be honest.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_00: I hated rugby at school.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_00: It was just like um the the one bit of the week where you okay, we're gonna switch it up now and we're gonna encourage the bullies to just brag on you.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_04: We had in the 80s, right?
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_04: Or um Red Rover.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_00: Red Rover.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I don't know that well.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so you would have your group or your class in our case.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_04: And it would be two lines.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_04: So, like if there were 20 people playing each line, you'd be standing across, and and you'd be like holding on to your like 10 and 10, and you'd be holding hands or whatever or arms sometimes, depending.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_04: And you would say, like, Red Rover, we call like if Agnes was on the other team, we'd say, Okay, Red Rover, we call Agnes over.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_04: And Agnes would have to try to run across and break the line.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_04: Their line.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_04: But what would that usually end up happening is that end up bouncing back and Agnes would get clothes lined and end up on the floor.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's some that's basically British Bulldog.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_00: We played that.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_00: That was banned at my school.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_04: It was banned in our school.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_00: So many kids kept getting injured, yeah.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_04: Eventually, yes.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_04: That indicable they were not allowed to.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_00: When I when I was at when I was at secondary school, uh high school, whenever 13, 14, that age, um, we used to play something called kabadi because there were so many Pakistani kids at my school.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_00: My my friends introduced me to kabadi, and kabadi is it is is kind of like that, but you've got to keep you've got in order to hold your breath, you keep under your breath going kabadi, kabadi, kabadi, kabadi, like that.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_00: If you can't do it anymore, you have to go back.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, it's basically the same game as well.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's a major sport in Pakistan.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_04: I I I feel like I want to look that up now.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh with a KH starts.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_01: Wait till yeah, wait till the kids get older.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's oh yeah.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_00: My my younger son just gets himself injured.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_00: He just throws himself around like a foal, you know, like a newly born foal just running around hitting himself on things, and it's just please stop.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_01: What is it with boys?
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, my daughter is like, she has a she has this.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, she's like, Do I take him every time he hurts himself or I don't take him?
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because they're gonna call CPS on me.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_01: But he just literally, the youngest just throws himself off of shit.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_01: He does he has no fear.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, I'm jumping, and you know, and he gets right back up again.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like, I don't know.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_00: He he um he was chasing his brother and he jumped over this vacuum cleaner and banned his his eyebrow and on the side of a chair right there and got a big cut there.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_00: It was bad.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then a week later, he was at school and he was spinning round for no reason at all, and fell over and bumped his head on the uh a wooden table, wooden benches, and like exactly the same thing.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_03: Like we were saying smile, yeah.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_00: And we had to go to hospital and get it sewn up, and the woman in the hospital, she was so nervous.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was like her first day, she got uh this plastic gloves stuck in the glue.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_00: They did they used to glue it together, so we had like a bit of gloves stuck in it.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's still got you know, like how uh some people like do you remember uh crisscross in the 90s?
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_00: They got like a they had they had that line shaved across the line.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it looks like that's kind of no hair grows there.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_01: Oh poor baby.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you're so sorry for the for your son or for the nerves.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_01: She wasn't Horrified.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's not funny.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's hysterical.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's sorry.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_00: I just know, like, as I told him, like, one day you're gonna have kids and you're gonna be 24 hours a day worried about them injuring themselves, and you're gonna know what you put us through.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_00: And how old is he?
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_00: He's 11 now.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um calming down a bit, maybe.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, his brother never did that stuff, Sent.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_04: It's always the second one.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_04: If they did it, if the first one did it, you might not make it to the second one.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, since the second one is the the second one.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_04: That's what my mother says, because I'm I'm the first.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_04: My mother says, You were so easy, and then your sister came along, and she's like, Yeah, they lull you into that false sense of security with the with the first kid, thinking like, oh, this is good, and then you have the second one, you're like, What the hell?
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_04: See, I stopped at one.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_01: I was not stupid.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I guess I was stupid because I have three, so yeah, you were yawn stupid.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_01: But you had three great girls.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's one more than I would do.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_04: And my youngest is.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we said after the second one.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_00: Mine are 11 and about to turn 15.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, yeah.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_01: So you're almost done.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_04: You can't.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_04: I have I have all girls though.
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_04: I don't have boys.
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_04: So I I I don't get to experience that same level of hyperactivity.
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_00: You've got some other things to deal with.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, do I?
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_04: Can can I ask you to talk about the commune that you mentioned in your Oh yeah.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I I feel like it's it's kind of well, it was basically a commune when we moved in there.
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_00: So this is 1983.
• 1:08:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I I was all of like four years old, maybe three years old, maybe it was earlier.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it's not quite my earliest memory.
• 1:08:31
  SPEAKER_00: It yeah, it's it's not quite my earliest memory, but it's it's it's it's getting off my earliest memory.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_00: We just yeah, moved down to this.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's uh a huge Victorian mansion in the countryside that was owned by a guy who ran the biggest vinegar factory in the country.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_00: He had it built.
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, that you know they couldn't afford the upkeep, so they sold it to a group of families who uh took it over.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_00: And the days we moved there, it was it was more like a commune.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_00: And if I go there now, it's more like just a housing association, it feels like.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we did have quite a few communal, but they did have parties together and communal meals and stuff, and we all went to school.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like the the local the village school was more than 50% kids from the commune, so um, but yeah, it's it's I I I wonder whether I should label it that as or not, but it was uh we you know we had our vegetable gardens that we we dug stuff in and we did we were always in each other's houses.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_00: It was like you know, as a as a kid there, it wasn't like this is your family house, just stay there.
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_00: It was like you you went round everywhere, and we were like my my house, my my my apartment in there at num number 13, we had uh we had a black and white TV with a with a dial, and the other kids didn't have a TV, so they would come around to our house to watch TV.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_00: It was you know um not developed as as much as most people's houses were at that time, I would say it was kind of a like a building site as well.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_00: So it was um amazing place to grow up.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_00: I I really love having lived there um and always gonna be a very special place to me.
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_04: How long did you live there?
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I I lived there completely until I was about nine, ten years old, and then I was my parents broke up and I was of my in the week, I would be with my mum in Worcester, and then at the weekend I'd go back there.
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um until I went off to university, so then 19.
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um I was still going at the weekends.
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_04: That's amazing.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_04: It's such a unique experience, I imagine.
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's it's you know, it the people there were, I mean, some of them were kind of hippies.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_00: There was no there was never kind of any ideological religious basis to people being there.
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a a weird mix of people.
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Some of them were kind of hippies, and like I had my share of uh savory tarts and with wholemeal flour and stuff.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's fat yeah, um but it was, you know, I like the biggest profession for any people there was builder.
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_00: There were quite so it was it was surprisingly, you know, and the I I don't know if I can describe it, it's it's it's the West Midlands, so it was um I I and halfway between that and the the countryside, so it's it's it's kind of a second-tier kind of working class uh slash countryside kind of area.
• 1:11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, it's hard to describe in kind of an international way, but it was it wasn't um based on any kind of idealism or anything, so it was very uh strange mix of people, I would say, who wouldn't normally be thrown together, but I ended up throwing up with them and um with our own kind of mixed culture.
• 1:12:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still in touch with a couple of people, but not really so much.
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've just you know I've been away so long that you just lose touch of people.
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's how it goes.
• 1:12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Facebook's been a little good for that, but now it's unusable.
• 1:12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, um, so it's I don't know, I sometimes speak to them, but you know, there's not much to talk about really.
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking of making a radio series.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna try and pitch a radio series about it, the about the place.
• 1:12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's it's one of a number of things I'm gonna pitch, and there's not guarantees we made more or less.
• 1:12:48
  SPEAKER_00: But um, I'm hoping to make it in the next two years.
• 1:12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we will bring you back, if not before, but definitely by then.
• 1:12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
• 1:12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'd I would like that to get out there, you know.
• 1:13:01
  SPEAKER_00: That'll be good.
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Throw it out to the universe now.
• 1:13:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sounds so interesting.
• 1:13:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to manifest it.
• 1:13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Is that uh I was I was listening to uh a podcast series about um Scott Adams um this the last few days and he was big into uh manifesting things.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_00: That was his that was one of his things.
• 1:13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, because he thought the universe had fated him to be like the the most clever and successful person in the world.
• 1:13:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, that's that was an odd guy.
• 1:13:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's back it brings it back to the law of attraction.
• 1:13:38
  SPEAKER_01: What you put out is what you get back, what you get in.
• 1:13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean my um my wife is uh uh acupuncturist and Chinese herbalist, and um as part of that, she's a Taoist.
• 1:13:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I so I I know a fair amount about Taoism from from her, and uh I think it's if I was going to have a religion, which I don't think I am, although I was raised Catholic, you know, um I think Taoism sounds like the the one that makes most sense to me.
• 1:14:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I think you know, I'm not I'm not closed mind to it, but I think it's uh there's a lot of uh a lot of people out there who uh try to sell self-help books and courses who are keen on some of the ideas, and so I always have to be a bit suspicious of them for that reason, I guess.
• 1:14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know what I mean.
• 1:14:30
  SPEAKER_01: I concur.
• 1:14:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think ultimately though, when it comes to that frame of thought, you give out good, you get good, just be a good person.
• 1:14:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's it, you know what I mean?
• 1:14:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's like the that's the crux of all yeah, my brain shut down.
• 1:14:48
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't get the words out.
• 1:14:50
  SPEAKER_00: No, I know I I know what you mean.
• 1:14:51
  SPEAKER_00: We were in a bit of a difficult a difficult time when there's um I I don't know.
• 1:14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um I you know, uh there's there's there's bad actors out there and they're not playing by the rules, and it's you know, um we keep trying to keep everything by the rules that they were before.
• 1:15:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's just less and those rules don't exist anymore, unfortunately.
• 1:15:17
  SPEAKER_01: So you gotta Yeah.
• 1:15:19
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's the proviso I would have there.
• 1:15:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's I think everyone should be kind to each other.
• 1:15:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a basic thing.
• 1:15:28
  SPEAKER_00: But when when other people are you know, I I I heard this horrible phrase toxic empathy that's being put out by certain people on the internet right now.
• 1:15:37
  SPEAKER_00: That is that is awful that they've decided that that's a thing.
• 1:15:40
  SPEAKER_00: They're trying to paint empathy as toxic now.
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_00: Scary times, scary times.
• 1:15:46
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing is not even the positive is turning negative.
• 1:15:49
  SPEAKER_00: So at this point, it's yeah, and on that note, so it's it's hard, it's hard not to turn things around.
• 1:16:00
  SPEAKER_00: It really is.
• 1:16:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's hard because that it permeates every aspect of your every aspect of your it's weave it's woven into every the fabric of our lives, it affects everyone, whether people want to admit it or not.
• 1:16:13
  SPEAKER_01: So no matter what you're talking about, it it's it's hard not to discuss it.
• 1:16:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:16:17
  SPEAKER_04: The only way that I could ever agree that empathy could be toxic is if it somehow prevents a person from living their life authentically.
• 1:16:35
  SPEAKER_04: But even then it would I I mean, that would be so hard.
• 1:16:40
  SPEAKER_04: I think empathy is part of the human fabric because it's an important thing for us to have in order to understand and relate to one another.
• 1:16:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I can't unless you're using the empathy, like, oh, I under I feel your pain, but I not could do about it.
• 1:16:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care.
• 1:16:59
  SPEAKER_01: But then that's not incorrupt.
• 1:17:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's with people using it incorrectly.
• 1:17:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 1:17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I empathize with you, but nothing I can do about it.
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think I mean sometimes you can.
• 1:17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:17:11
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, what you're losing what you're you're being hauled away and disappeared.
• 1:17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, can't do anything for you, but that must hurt your family.
• 1:17:20
  SPEAKER_01: I can see how I I can see where the the terminology is kind of coming into play.
• 1:17:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 1:17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I mean, um it's no, I I don't I don't think I don't think it's anything so well thought through.
• 1:17:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's just I mean, I my uh you know, I I've been an immigrant most of my life, and my wife is an immigrant now, and um the anti-immigrant feeling in in England right now is uh getting a bit scary.
• 1:17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um and of course worse than I mean similar in America, but we've got it pretty bad here.
• 1:17:51
  SPEAKER_00: And um I think it's it's you know that they're just trying to change the language to um make sim make feeling sorry for people into a bad thing.
• 1:18:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, you shouldn't feel sorry for that's how they get to you.
• 1:18:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's that's why they that's why they've invented empathy phrase, you know.
• 1:18:10
  SPEAKER_01: Got it.
• 1:18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it's yeah, it's it's um yeah, I I think it's um I don't know.
• 1:18:17
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't I don't go on Twitter anymore because it's horrible now.
• 1:18:22
  SPEAKER_00: And um same yeah, um I yeah, uh that's that's where I saw that kind of thing.
• 1:18:28
  SPEAKER_00: So um it's new to me.
• 1:18:30
  SPEAKER_00: You can't you can't completely ignore it at the same time because you know, uh you have to know what's happening in the world.
• 1:18:39
  SPEAKER_04: Right, and you know, you can't go onto Twitter or onto Facebook or I mean really onto any kind of social media platform and expect to change someone's mind.
• 1:18:49
  SPEAKER_04: That's it.
• 1:18:50
  SPEAKER_04: Like it at that point, yeah.
• 1:18:52
  SPEAKER_04: The you know, the the thought has passed, it's already out there, it it is what it is.
• 1:18:57
  SPEAKER_04: The people who agree will find it and love it, and the people who hate it will argue it.
• 1:19:02
  SPEAKER_04: But at the end of the day, it's the same thing, right?
• 1:19:06
  SPEAKER_04: Like they still believe theirs and you still believe yours, but I think that it still is important to talk about, and you know, maybe you can't have a constructive conversation with a stranger online, but maybe you can.
• 1:19:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that like I mean, I haven't yeah, I I I've I've had lots of very important to me discussions online, but they've not been antagonistic and taking two sides and trying to persuade each other, you know, change my mind.
• 1:19:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's never been like that, it's always been people who are on the same side as me discussing things, and I have yeah, well, basically on the same side, on the side of you know, um being kind to people.
• 1:19:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a good way to sum it up, I suppose.
• 1:20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, um, yeah.
• 1:20:02
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I I don't know, there's also talk about oh being in an echo chamber or something like that, but you know, I I don't want to I don't want to join a debate club.
• 1:20:11
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't want to go out there and do that.
• 1:20:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's it's not like and that's like I don't know that that's my that's my problem with Reddit, that it's it's this this debate me bro kind of atmosphere there, which is just I I can't I can't do it.
• 1:20:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't want to have a discussion about these things.
• 1:20:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's like I know what my idea is, and like you're not gonna change my mind by uh trying to get me to find go and find some facts.
• 1:20:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's like no, I'm not gonna go and do research.
• 1:20:40
  SPEAKER_04: I know.
• 1:20:41
  SPEAKER_04: And the truth is, like, I like a discussion, I like to be challenged because that's where we learn, right?
• 1:20:47
  SPEAKER_04: That's where we grow.
• 1:20:49
  SPEAKER_04: But it also depends how it's done.
• 1:20:53
  SPEAKER_04: So when someone is respectful and says, Hey, I never thought of it that way, why do you say that?
• 1:20:58
  SPEAKER_04: And and you have, you know, whoever, right?
• 1:21:01
  SPEAKER_04: And then you can share your thoughts and your reasons and say, Well, this is you know, why?
• 1:21:08
  SPEAKER_04: And and it makes me feel like this.
• 1:21:11
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, I I I don't have to agree, but at least now I can understand and I can appreciate the perspective for more than just being like, Well, that's dumb, because that's usually my response.
• 1:21:23
  SPEAKER_04: Well, that's stupid.
• 1:21:26
  SPEAKER_04: But everything is challenged.
• 1:21:28
  SPEAKER_04: I completely off topic, but not.
• 1:21:31
  SPEAKER_04: I went on Reddit and I was looking at somebody writing something about the show Fraser.
• 1:21:37
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm not sure if you're familiar.
• 1:21:39
  SPEAKER_04: Um, who was Niles' second wife.
• 1:21:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, vague memory, yeah.
• 1:21:51
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, and so someone responded how they felt bad for Mel that Niles ran off with Daphne, right?
• 1:22:01
  SPEAKER_04: And I and I commented and I said, I think that while you can feel sorry for someone who's in pain, I don't feel sorry for Mel because I think that she was written to be more or less an unlikable character so that you can love the Niles Daphne um relationship.
• 1:22:26
  SPEAKER_04: And maybe not like verbatim, right?
• 1:22:27
  SPEAKER_04: But and my god, it was like, what did I say?
• 1:22:32
  SPEAKER_04: Like we're talking about fictional fucking people here.
• 1:22:35
  SPEAKER_04: Like I don't agree.
• 1:22:37
  SPEAKER_04: You don't have to agree.
• 1:22:39
  SPEAKER_04: I I would love actually to hear why you disagree, but we don't have to agree, and also this is fake, so just relax, you know, like chill.
• 1:22:50
  SPEAKER_04: It's okay, like we'll we'll we'll all be okay tonight.
• 1:22:54
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, it's crazy.
• 1:22:56
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:22:56
  SPEAKER_00: I I I taught um critical analysis of uh of media as one of my jobs before, and um it's uh the the state it's in now of you know it it's kind of obsessive fans or people trying to recreate it through TV tropes, and that's it.
• 1:23:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it feels like that's that's not critical analysis, that's not that's not what it is.
• 1:23:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's just um right.
• 1:23:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it's no fun as well.
• 1:23:27
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't want to list tropes or defend something to the death because it's my thing.
• 1:23:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's that's not an interesting way to approach it.
• 1:23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Is that right?
• 1:23:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not enjoying this conversation.
• 1:23:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's not I don't want to be the dead horse at this point because like and that's the thing, most people don't want to have understanding, they just want to prove their point, they want to argue though, so why they want to be right, and disagreements can be um I I don't want to say entertaining because it's not quite the right word, but disagreements can be valuable, that's the right word.
• 1:24:03
  SPEAKER_04: I don't we don't have to agree, but but we're both allowed to have a perspective, we're both allowed to have an opinion, and if you want to share that opinion, I would love to hear why you feel the way you do.
• 1:24:17
  SPEAKER_04: It I can respect your opinion and still not agree with it when we don't have to agree.
• 1:24:23
  SPEAKER_04: I mean it's like it's not like me and my husband decided that we're on the same page about raising children.
• 1:24:27
  SPEAKER_04: That's something we have to agree on.
• 1:24:29
  SPEAKER_04: But your feelings on a show and my feelings on a TV show do not have to align for us to get along, you know.
• 1:24:37
  SPEAKER_04: Human rights may be a little different, but yeah.
• 1:24:40
  SPEAKER_00: No, people need to phrase it better.
• 1:24:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I'm I'm kind of tired of reading that was good, that was bad, that's underrated, that's overrated.
• 1:24:48
  SPEAKER_00: I want to just like how did it affect you?
• 1:24:51
  SPEAKER_00: What was your portrait?
• 1:24:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right, that's a conclusion.
• 1:24:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's much more interesting, yeah.
• 1:24:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I don't want to hear your conclusion, I want to hear your reasons.
• 1:25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 1:25:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, um it's the prelude to the uh portrait of Dorian Gray used to have in my university room very pretentious of me, but um there's this that's uh what one thing in there says he said the the I I should be able to quote it for Bethan should know, but it's uh the um the uh the highest and the lowest form of criticism is a form of autobiography, and that's that's what I like to think about when I'm doing criticism.
• 1:25:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's you know, I'm um I'm an individual taking in this piece of media, and it's all about my the the way I connect to it.
• 1:25:36
  SPEAKER_00: The artist doesn't really come in there, you know.
• 1:25:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's you know and the way they made it and the way they use some different tricks, it's like this that doesn't come into it either.
• 1:25:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's just what's what's my experience of it, and what does that tell me about the art and what does that tell me about me?
• 1:25:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's the way that's the that's what I want to hear from other people about any kind of art, you know.
• 1:25:59
  SPEAKER_00: And if somebody likes music that I don't like, I I want to quiz them and find out what it is for their hearing there because I I really want to find out because you know there was a guy with sorry, if sorry if you don't like sorry if you like, I mean, uh Bon Jovi recently, and I really want to understand why he likes Bon Jovi.
• 1:26:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I was kind of quizzing him about it because it's never been something I I enjoyed.
• 1:26:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's the most recent one I can think of.
• 1:26:26
  SPEAKER_00: But I I don't mean that's a moral position for everyone, but I think it's like I mean it's not practical for everyone because it's my hyper focused obsession rather than anything else.
• 1:26:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that's much more interesting, like if you can express what it is that you see in something.
• 1:26:42
  SPEAKER_00: I want to hear about it.
• 1:26:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I want to hear about it.
• 1:26:45
  SPEAKER_04: And and I think that we have a normal human inclination towards finding towards being um like agreeable, right?
• 1:26:54
  SPEAKER_04: To to being validated when you say, Oh, I love Bon Jovi, and the next person is like, Oh my god, I love Bon Jovi too, and then you feel validated and you feel like okay, we have a common shared interest.
• 1:27:04
  SPEAKER_04: And somehow when the person says, Okay, but I don't like Bon Jovi, all of a sudden it's like an attack.
• 1:27:15
  SPEAKER_04: And it's not, and I think that that's where where a lot of the disconnect comes in because it's like suddenly expressing your different opinion is a personal attack, but it's not, it's it's just a different opinion, and we can still both like pizza.
• 1:27:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, whatever because some things is okay to disagree with, you know, some things are just opinion-based, some things aren't.
• 1:27:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:27:43
  SPEAKER_00: And if it's opinion-based, you could be yeah, to be to be honest though, if somebody says they hate one of my favorite bands, I I don't like it.
• 1:27:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that feels bad.
• 1:27:55
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, of course.
• 1:27:56
  SPEAKER_00: I yeah, and like I I I think other people seem to get over that much more easily than me.
• 1:28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, oh, oh, sorry.
• 1:28:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think my ears are too big.
• 1:28:11
  SPEAKER_01: It starts hurting my ears.
• 1:28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Please couple before I Oh, so you're not the only I'm not the only one, right?
• 1:28:19
  SPEAKER_01: It starts like hurting your ears to No, after a couple of hours.
• 1:28:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it's I because I need this to do m my stuff, so It's really annoying.
• 1:28:26
  SPEAKER_00: I can find if anyone can recommend headphones that don't hurt after a couple of hours, then please get on that at least.
• 1:28:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:28:35
  SPEAKER_04: Before we wrap up, do you have any last words for us or listeners?
• 1:28:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 1:28:42
  SPEAKER_00: No, sorry.
• 1:28:44
  SPEAKER_01: I thought you'd come to be really profound indeed.
• 1:28:46
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing prepared.
• 1:28:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:28:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:28:49
  SPEAKER_00: That should do.
• 1:28:49
  SPEAKER_00: I know we used to always say we didn't tell you before.
• 1:28:52
  SPEAKER_00: What was it?
• 1:28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh nobody lends money to a man with a sense of humor.
• 1:28:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 1:29:00
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:29:01
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:29:02
  SPEAKER_00: I would say what it is.
• 1:29:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's a quote from the monkeys movie Head, and it's supposed to be like it sounds like it's meaningful, but it means nothing.
• 1:29:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's the whole point of it.
• 1:29:11
  SPEAKER_02: I got close to that.
• 1:29:12
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:29:16
  SPEAKER_04: Before we wrap up, um, if you wanna one more time, like just let everyone know where they can find you and your your work.
• 1:29:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so just search for centuries of sound with a centuries, not century.
• 1:29:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I I'd used to be on podcasting platforms, but it's just a placeholder there, really.
• 1:29:36
  SPEAKER_00: So if you find my website, centuriesofsound.com, that's the easiest place to find everything.
• 1:29:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, all the links are on there.
• 1:29:44
  SPEAKER_04: Cool.
• 1:29:45
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 1:29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well that's about it.
• 1:29:48
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 1:29:49
  SPEAKER_04: We thank you for hanging out with us and for doing a spotlight episode and for sharing so much of yourself with us and our listeners.
• 1:29:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's okay.
• 1:29:58
  SPEAKER_00: Talking about myself is always uh something I need I do too much, maybe.
• 1:30:06
  SPEAKER_04: We remind everyone to drink responsibly, not to drink and drive.
• 1:30:10
  SPEAKER_04: And you can visit us at assassinsips.com for more about us and our guests.
• 1:30:15
  SPEAKER_04: And until next time, I'm Lisa.
• 1:30:18
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm Agnes.
• 1:30:21
  SPEAKER_04: Do you want to say I'm James?
• 1:30:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm James.
• 1:30:25
  SPEAKER_00: Bye bye.
• 1:30:28
  SPEAKER_04: And we are out.
• 1:30:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:30:30
  SPEAKER_04: See you later.
• 1:30:31
  SPEAKER_04: Bye.