Latest / The Madison Church Podcast / A Guide to Spiritual Maturity and Resilience | Losing My Religion (Part 8) | Stephen Feith

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A Guide to Spiritual Maturity and Resilience | Losing My Religion (Part 8) | Stephen Feith · The Madison Church Podcast

• 0:00
  Stephen Feith: Man COVID began like a year and a half ago. And I went to a church leaders, pastors kind of training conference meetings gathering this week. And that was like, that was a lot of what we were talking about just was just like, pre COVID, what church life was like what leadership was like during COVID. And you make the argument that we're still kind of in it, and then what's it going to be like afterwards? And one of the things that I thought was just so funny, was that not funny.
• 0:28
  Stephen Feith: One of the things that I felt like, Wow, that's so true, was that they would ask the question, Where were you when you found out about the shutdowns when, like, when COVID hit and you found out that like, everyone, you got to just stay home. And the thing that made it funny was that everybody knew. I mean, everybody remembered like, you would remember a big historic event or tragedy, almost everyone remembers where they were, I was in my loft at the apartment at the time. And I saw that the loser center was calling me on my phone. I thought that was weird, because, and meeting there for seven years, I don't think they ever called me and I answered the phone, and it was Shawn, and she said, Hey, we're just letting you know, this was a Friday night. We're just letting you know, you guys can't meet on Sunday, because we're shutting the center now because of COVID.
• 1:19
  Stephen Feith: And I just didn't know a lot. I mean, I don't think I don't think very many of us knew a lot. And I was like, okay, so we can't meet this week. Well, what about next week? I remember asking. She's like, we don't we don't know. We just we don't know yet. Okay. In the back of my mind, I knew Easter was like four or five weeks away. And I was just kind of hoping that this was only going to last three or four weeks. So we could still have a nice easter a big Easter the year before. So you know, my context, the year before we had over 200 people join us for breakfast egg hunt at our church. And so we were like, Easter's awesome. It was super overwhelming that Easter, but it was awesome. And we were hoping to do it again, except bigger and better. And so it was like it was really heartbroken.
• 2:08
  Stephen Feith: Like, I was heartbroken. I was sad. I was angry that we were like doing Easter online, because I felt like we just were missing this huge opportunity.
• 2:15
  Stephen Feith: And yet I remember, I kept thinking like, oh, well, we're almost done with this like, right, like, we got to be coming to the end of this. And you know, there are two, two, really, I think early on types of responses. And it was like some people were like, it's gonna be years years. Like, we're always going to be like wearing masks, and like, we're just gonna stay inside, like forever, life is forever changed. And then there were the other people were like, it's not that bad. And as time has gone on, I think we've kind of settled somewhere in between the two polarizations, where it's like you never go outside again. And it's not that bad. And the reality is, is there's elements of where this is much more in the middle where it is really bad. It is worse than a than a flu. And at the same time, what we've discovered is that, like, we can't stay inside for the next five or 10 years. It's just not feasible. And so the question I want to ask you, and if you're watching or listening online, welcome. We're glad that you're with us. But the question I want to ask you is Do you remember where you were what you were doing, when you found out about COVID and the shutdowns a year and a half ago, about to go on a vacation. And that was really I think, for a lot of us the things like we were at school, and then you had to do school from home. Now, in your case, it was college. And so the transition for going online in college was a little bit more streamlined. Because most universities and colleges have online offerings. And so for them, it was a little bit they were able to make that pivot for those of you or us with young kids to go from maybe being a spring break to having like 48 hours figure out what you're going to do for childcare on Monday, that was stressful. And then you I think that a lot of parents were very still hopeful that by the end of the year, they could send these kids back.
• 4:02
  Stephen Feith: And then horror hit you when you found out the school wasn't starting in person. That's September, and then it just kept going on and on and on for work.
• 4:10
  Stephen Feith: That's very frustrating. A lot of people lost their jobs. And that's a very real pain that happened. A lot of people lost their jobs, they lost income in a very scary time of life. And then other people still had to go to work. And they were scared because at the time we didn't have vaccines. And I think that we're getting new information.
• 4:30
  Stephen Feith: It just seemed like every five minutes, there was like a new breakthrough, something we discovered. And so we've never seen anything quite like that in the world. Now I'm going to come back to COVID. I'm not just bringing it up for no reason there is a purpose and it has to do with the church's response.
• 4:45
  Stephen Feith: And what we have to read today in Hebrew. So if you want to follow along in your own Bibles, whether it's on your phone or using the Bibles in your pews, we're going to go to Hebrews chapter eight. And if you're just joining us online or listen Sitting on the podcast we've been in a series going through the middle portion of the New Testament letter to the Hebrews, I mean, we're going word by word and verse by verse, Through this New Testament letter. This is actually the second series we're doing, we had to break it up.
• 5:13
  Stephen Feith: Otherwise, the series was going to be some 30 weeks in a row, and I couldn't do that to you, it could definitely couldn't do it to myself. And so the first part of this series was about seven or eight weeks, we call that finding your faith. And in those first few chapters, the author of Hebrews really was pointing us in the direction of faith, how to find faith, what is faith? What are the benefits of faith? And then we started this series, and we've called it losing my religion because the author of Hebrews has transitioned this message from here's how you find faith grow in your faith, to losing your religion. Now, why would the author cover these kind of maybe two big themes going from finding your faith to losing your faith, and it has everything to do with the original audience, the original audience being Jewish Christians. Now, if you grew up Jewish back then and 2000 years ago, you had some 613 commandments, to obey. That's a lot of rules.
• 6:07
  Stephen Feith: You got to get a lot, right. And then when you did in, and obviously you wouldn't, because it's 613. I mean, kudos to you.
• 6:14
  Stephen Feith: If you can even remember 613 of the rules you're supposed to follow. But when you don't follow a rule that you didn't add, make a sacrifice, had to make some sort of animal sacrifice or crop sacrifice, to get yourself right with God to put yourself back in right standing. And so then all sudden, Jesus comes on the same lives dies raised from the dead, it's sweeping the world, this message of Jesus, these Jewish people become Christians, they're still ethnically Jewish, but they're transitioning now from being like a Jewish religion mindset to a Christian one following Jesus, and things are getting dicey things are getting tough. They live in a world run by the Roman Empire.
• 6:53
  Stephen Feith: And the Roman Empire wants you is really kind of pluralistic, like our society is pluralistic lots of gods. As a matter of fact, if you were a Caesar, somebody who was like a governor in a political position, you were a god. As weird as that is, if you got elected, it was like all sudden you became divine.
• 7:12
  Stephen Feith: And so the Roman Empire was fine with you worshiping whoever you wanted to worship, as long as you also worshipped the Roman Empire. Now the things I'm the thing that made Christianity very kind of subversive in the society, the thing that bugged people, was that Christianity was monotheistic. We believe in one God, the Lord is One, we believe in Jesus. And so now you have these Jewish Christians who are following Jesus, and now perhaps facing persecution for not worshipping these other gods for rejecting the idea that Caesar is God is Caesar God, nope, only Jesus, well, people would be jailed torture to put the death for that. And so then what begins to happen is these Jewish Christians begin to maybe think, you know, what, we were getting tortured, put in prison and killed before Jesus before this newfound faith that we have, let's maybe go back. And the author of Hebrews knows these people. And he's writing them and saying, no, no, no, no.
• 8:14
  Stephen Feith: So first, here's how you find faith. Now we need to lose religion, because you're going back to an old system that honestly guys didn't work. I know, it felt like it worked.
• 8:23
  Stephen Feith: But it didn't. And actually, what Jesus has done is so much better. And so that's where we've been in this series, the first two parts of the series.
• 8:30
  Stephen Feith: And chapter four. And chapter five, the author is talking about Jesus is a new and better high priest, he introduces or he or she introduces the idea for the very first time that Jesus is this new and better high priests using language that if you were a Jewish person, you'd be very familiar with because you had priest. And then after they introduced this idea of, there's this new, better high priest, his name is Jesus, the author goes on a little bit of a detour to warn them and to confront people about their spiritual maturity, because the author is about to go into some heavy content, some deep theology stuff. And he's just warning, hey, it's about to get deep. But before I go there, I want you to stay engaged.
• 9:15
  Stephen Feith: Because if you don't, you'll be spiritually mature. And if you're spiritually immature, you're more likely to drift. And if you're more if you're drifting, you're more likely to reject your faith altogether.
• 9:27
  Stephen Feith: And so the warning was, stay, you know, stay with me here, we're gonna get into some deep stuff. And here's why growing is good, because if you're growing in your faith, you're not drifting from your god, you're moving closer to God. And if you're moving closer to God, you're not going to reject your faith, but you're going to find new life. And then that gets us to where we've been recently, in which the author has begun a series of intellectual arguments and discussions using the Hebrew Scriptures using the Old Testament. As to why Jesus is the better high priest, the author is using their text, their scripture, remember, they did not have the New Testament.
• 10:10
  Stephen Feith: So they only had the Old Testament and they had this letter, which I don't really know if they would have thought of this as scripture. When they're being read this letter from the Hebrews, it's hard to say if they would have said, Oh, yeah, this is, this is scripture, this is coming from God. This isn't just our friend who's advising us. And so the author goes and uses their Scripture, the Old Testament to show that just wasn't only prophesied to be a new and better high priest. But then theologically, what we think about God, what that meant was that there also had to be a new law, or a new covenant. And under that new covenant, you and I are freed from having to make animal sacrifices and memorize the first five books of the Old Testament and follow some 600 laws. Now, does that mean the Old Testament is obsolete? No.
• 11:00
  Stephen Feith: Throughout the entire letter of the Hebrews, this author has been quoting the Old Testament, the Old Testament is not obsolete, rather, the law that we were under the old covenant that we were under, is obsolete.
• 11:12
  Stephen Feith: Does this make sense? Old Testament still valid, still inspired, still useful for teaching us today. But we are not under 600 laws that we have to follow. And then when we screw up, we don't have to come here to this place, and sacrifice animals because of what Jesus did. And so today, we're also going to read we're going to read through the entire eighth chapter of Hebrews. And the reason we are is because this eighth chapter, which books in the Bible didn't even have chapters and verses until maybe, like 456 100 years ago. But this eighth chapter was a summary.
• 11:56
  Stephen Feith: And it wasn't just a summary, it was a transition. We've been very like in the weeds with thinking and ideas and theology.
• 12:05
  Stephen Feith: And the author of Hebrews is about to transition us to very practical stuff, to very this is applicable to your life. And yes, when we're talking, we try to draw out application from the text, certainly. But in this message, the author of Hebrews is going to begin to lay out a ton of application for us in a big sense. And so we're taking the transition here today. And if you're following along, Hebrews eight, verse one here, here's the main point, we have a high priest who sat down in the place of honor beside the throne of the majestic God and Heaven.
• 12:42
  Stephen Feith: There he ministers and the heavenly tabernacle, the true place of worship that was built by the Lord, and not by human hands. He says, there's the main point. Well, we have been talking about the last few weeks we have a high priest, who is Jesus, Jesus isn't having right now with God. And this is kind of a contrast between the physical and the spiritual. See, it's what Jesus did spiritually.
• 13:08
  Stephen Feith: For us. It's who Jesus was, as not just fully man, but fully God, that makes the difference for you and I today. It's because he's not just a physical priest who lived in one time and then died. It's that he is also a spiritual priest, and to this day intercedes on our behalf, he is still to this day, my better priest, you're better priests are better high priest.
• 13:39
  Stephen Feith: And the author is making a further point, which is that the place in which Jesus reigns, this new tabernacle, this place of worship that they built here on Earth, in the Old Testament, this new place, is heavenly in it, it's better to there's a theme here, right, knew better priest knew better covenant. And now we're told that there's a new, better place of worship, a new tabernacle, and it wasn't made by human hands. It doesn't have flaws. It's perfect because God has created it. We read in verse three and sense that every high priest is required to offer gifts and sacrifices, our high priest must make an offering to, if you were here on Earth, you would not even be a priest, since there already are priests who offer the gifts required by the law. They serve in a system of worship that is only a copy a shadow of the real one in heaven. For when Moses was getting ready to build the tabernacle, God gave him this warning. Be sure that you make everything according to the pattern I've shown you here on this mountain. But now, but now Jesus, our High Priest has been given a ministry that is far superior to the old priesthood, for he is the one who mediates for us a far better covenant with God base I'm better promises. And I love it because we've been talking about a better priest, a better covenant, a better tabernacle better place of worship. And now what we're told is that that makes life better for you.
• 15:13
  Stephen Feith: That's where this application is. All of this makes life better for you and I, the old system wasn't working, the old way of doing things wasn't accomplishing God's purpose. And now we have a ministry, a far superior priest, and that God, Jesus mediates on our behalf. I don't know if you've ever like really sat down and consider that. But when we pray, and we're asking God to do this, or to do that for wisdom, discernment. That's awesome. But have you ever considered that Jesus is somewhere talking about you to God? Like Jesus is somewhere right now you might be talking to God, Jesus is also talking to God. And maybe you're like, I need to sermon, I need clarity I need, I need to feel better, I need a raise, I need a promotion, I need to get out of debt. I need my kid to stop acting up, I need to stop acting up. But to think then, that Jesus is also there, next to God, saying, I see you. And God, would you do this for them. And God would do that for them.
• 16:24
  Stephen Feith: Because Jesus is mediating on your behalf. It's a powerful concept to think that we're not just coming to God and asking him and God's not just pursuing us, but that Jesus intercedes on our behalf as well, verse seven, if the first covenant had been faultless, there would be no need for a second covenant to replace it. But when God found fault with the people, he said, The day is coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah, this covenant will not be like the one I made with their ancestors, when I took them by the hand and lead them out of the land of Egypt, they did not remain faithful to my covenant. And so I turned my back on them, says the Lord. But this new covenant I will make with the people of Israel, on that day says, Lord, I will put my law in their minds, and I will write them on their hearts, I will be their God, and they will be my people. And they will not need to teach their neighbors, nor will they need to teach their relatives saying, you should know the Lord, for everyone, from the least to the greatest will know me already.
• 17:28
  Stephen Feith: And I will forgive their wickedness. And I will never again remember their sins. When God speaks of the New Covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete, it is now out of date and will soon disappear. A lot of that probably resonates and sounds familiar, because it is, again, a summary that the author themselves has thrown in there. But one of the things that I want to keep kind of coming back to is this idea that the author of Hebrews continues to say, the Old Covenant was obsolete, it could not would not do what God wanted it to do.
• 18:02
  Stephen Feith: Which was why that's the question, What did God want to accomplish? Was it that you and I would just be sinless, that we would do all the right things?
• 18:15
  Stephen Feith: Well, there were people who were memorizing 613, some laws, there are people who were memorizing the Five Books of the Torah, there were people who were doing that, right. They're called Pharisees. They were really good at being religious. And yet, we've been told over and over in Hebrews that even if you did everything, right, by the letter of the law, it still wouldn't have been good enough.
• 18:39
  Stephen Feith: Or what good enough for what, and it's the relationship that God wants with you. God isn't impersonal. He's not somewhere far away oblivious to what you have going on in your life. He cares deeply for you. And so this New Covenant comes into effect because of his love for us. And the relationship that he wants with you. And I remember we talked about this concept of how there used to be a priest, who would go and talk to God on behalf of the community. But now because of Jesus, God comes to the community. And we're back at this idea again, of where God is pursuing you and me. God wants to be known. And as we seek God, we can know Him. And one of the things to point out if you're looking for a little bit of deeper tidbit information. The author of Hebrews is going to say that this new covenant is not a surprise because they quote Jeremiah in this passage when talking about how there is going to be a new covenant. So hundreds of years before Jesus, Jeremiah is prophesying writing this down in Texas, they would have considered scripture that there would be a new covenant.
• 19:54
  Stephen Feith: So once again, the author of Hebrews goes back to the familiar to what they already respected, honored and new, to prove a point. And so our challenge tonight really is that if we want to lose our religion, we have to take this kind of warning this message of the author of Hebrews, seriously and find balance between the spiritual and the physical.
• 20:21
  Stephen Feith: That's what we need to do. Where you and I, we're not just physical beings, we're not just physical persons. But you and I, we're not just spiritual, either. You're not just a spiritual person, you are also physically not just physical, but you're also spiritual, you're both and that is way easier said than done. Because most people that I've ever met in the history of my life, tend to lean toward one end of that or the other. And what I mean is that it's all physical.
• 20:52
  Stephen Feith: Everything is physical, and I just got to do a bunch of good stuff. And I just got to try to be a good person. And it's all physical. And what I see is the reality, and that is it. And on the flip side of that, we have people who are just all spiritual. They can go and do a bunch of terrible things physically, but in their minds, they're spiritually fit. So it's okay, they read their Bible, they pray, but then it doesn't matter. But they're like, Well, I have faith. And this is a problem. James, the brother of Jesus observes that this was happening even 1000s of years ago, when James writes, Dear friends, do you think you'll get anywhere in this if you learn all the right words, but never do anything? Does merely talking about faith indicate that a person really has it? For instance, you call upon an old friend dressed in rags and half starved, and say, Good morning, friend, be clothed in Christ be filled with the Holy Spirit, and walk off without providing so much as a coat or a cup of soup?
• 21:51
  Stephen Feith: Where does that get you? Isn't it obvious that God talk without God acts is outrageous.
• 21:56
  Stephen Feith: Nonsense. See, the truth is you and I, we are fully physical people, but we're also fully spiritual people. And what James is talking about is that we need both, we need to have faith, we need to have that spiritual side, we need to be aware of it, we need to prioritize it. We also need to be aware of physically what's going on. And we also need to prioritize it.
• 22:19
  Stephen Feith: Now I opened up with COVID. And that's where we're going with this balancing between spirit and physical. We've seen a massive divide, I think, over the past year and a half, within churches across North America, in the United States, specifically, since that's what I'm more familiar with. But we've seen a massive divide between physical and spiritual priorities. And I think the virus has revealed where our leanings were, I mentioned that people either lean towards spiritual or physical people make up communities, and the church is a community. And so when we're talking about community, a church leaning a certain way, we're talking about people. And so when the pandemic first began, and we're supposed to stay at home, you got those orders, stay at home, don't go out. There are churches that still met their churches and still met. And they kind of applauded themselves, because to them, the emphasis was the spiritual. And they were like, you're not going to stop us from worshipping.
• 23:20
  Stephen Feith: Mm hmm, we're going to worship no matter what. So they got together and they worship, they ignored those orders, they ignored the physical orders and what ended up happening. We know a lot of people got sick. A lot of people have died of COVID.
• 23:34
  Stephen Feith: And a lot of these things have been connected with churches and, and people of faith and communities of faith. Because there was such an emphasis on the spiritual, we're going to do this. And we're going to completely ignore any sort of like medical or health advice from people who know that stuff.
• 23:50
  Stephen Feith: Because we're just we need to get together and pray and worship Jesus. Okay, so there's the emphasis on spiritual. We've seen this divide, I think, on the other side, with people who seem to have given up on their faith all together. In the last 18 months, the emphasis was so physical, I'm never going outside ever again. Just kidding. go grocery shopping, because I have to. And the priority was physical. But then what we've begun to see is that even though there were options for like online and digital stuff, people didn't engage or didn't stay engaged. And that emphasis is so physical that even though they would say, Well, I can't go to church right now, because the pandemic's bad.
• 24:34
  Stephen Feith: But we'll still take a trip to Disney World, or we'll still go to the bowling alley and sing karaoke. We'll still do this because why? The emphasis, being physical, I'm going to do what physically feels good. So I'm going to go and do these things.
• 24:52
  Stephen Feith: That feels good. And what happened was that spiritually got neglected and what I want to say about this, and I Hope I'm not making all of you mad because that'd be a shame. But like, what I'm trying to say is that as people of faith, who hear the words of Jesus who hear the words of the author of Hebrews, we need to say yes, physical is important. So when there is a mask mandate, we're going to require that people wear a mask, because that's just not an argument that we're going to have. But we're also going to emphasize the spiritual we want to gather and worship. And I think we can do both. And it's just been really sad that over the last year that it seems like arguments and our opinions on some of these things, are what's not just dividing our communities, but they're dividing our churches, churches that are supposed to be united and prioritize both the physical and the spiritual, are fighting over which one is better. And it shouldn't be because they're both really important. And why is this even more important for us today? Research shows far away that people have quit the church, people have left the faith, people who have nothing to do with Christianity anymore would reconsider. They were asked they found a bunch of people who fit that category.
• 26:06
  Stephen Feith: They're asked what would it take for you to reconsider faith joining a church being a Christian? They didn't say a better argument. They didn't say more proof. They didn't say more evidence. When asked what would it take for you to reengage your faith? They said if Christians had a better reputation, if Christians had a better reputation, you know what, if the people who follow Jesus looked more like Jesus, I might be interested and being a part of that. And that's convicting.
• 26:44
  Stephen Feith: And it's hard. Because on the one hand, we're imperfect people, right? We talk about that all the time. Well, I could never live up to Jesus because he was perfect. And I'm not. And at the same time, what has happened, or I can't live up to here. So I just bought them out.
• 27:02
  Stephen Feith: I'm just a terrible, horrible person with a bad reputation.
• 27:07
  Stephen Feith: And oftentimes, I think that that's what happens when we get in these battles of spiritual and physical. So instead of having a better reputation, instead of working for the good of our communities, we sit and we argue, and we fight about something like mass, but something like online church or in person church. And while we're having those arguments, which I think are I think it's foolish to have these arguments, people are looking at us bickering and saying that's supposed to be the United Church. And we're contributing to our own bad reputation. Look, your mask isn't gonna save anyone's soul. But fighting about it could cost someone there's the mission of God is too important. And when people are telling us is I want to know Jesus, I just don't like the church. And where his bride wears body, we're supposed to reflect Him, and we come up. So short, people get confused when they see pictures in the news of people protesting in our own in the protest their crosses, which is this religious symbol of freedom and death and resurrection. And in the same picture, there's a noose.
• 28:20
  Stephen Feith: And the world says, Why would I ever want to be a part of that.
• 28:25
  Stephen Feith: And I get that. And that's where as the church, we have to be bold and stand up. And we have to be way more selective of the fights that we are picking in society. Let's not fight about mass. But let's talk about the problem. When we have a cross na news in the same protest in the same act. Let's not fight about mass, let's talk about why Jesus is the Lord and can give people freedom from the addictions from mental illness from physical problems from spiritual spiritual bondage. Let's talk about that. Let's be more strategic in the fights that we pick with society as we as a community prioritize not just the spiritual, but the physical and not just the physical but the spiritual and so as I close this, how you and I, let's examine our lives, where do you lean? And tell you where Eileen Eileen physical. I can see it, I feel it could touch it. I see it every day. Where do you lean? Is it physical? Or is it spiritual?
• 29:38
  Stephen Feith: And what would it look like for you to take a step to challenge yourself to say, You know what, I've been over prioritizing this at the cost of this. What would it look like to make that balance out, not for the sake of being centrist? Not for the sake of being a moderate? But for the sake of saying I am both, and I'm really robbing myself, my family, my neighbor My community my city my church when I prioritize one at the cost of another