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Offensive Christianity: Reclaiming Biblical Manhood (ft. Chase Davis) · CrossPolitic Show

• Hey y'all welcome to CrossPolitik 101 with the Water Boy. It's going to be with you this Monday. I hope you guys are already having a good week starting off and you're going to love my time with my friend and pastor Chase Davis coming up on his new book, offensive, Chrissy, and it but before we get there, you guys know I got a couple things I got to bring you up to speed on and I think I talked about this last week, but I want to talk about it again with you. My me my wife show waterbreak are we also air on drug TV and dish and on a number of and of course fight lap fees networking everything we're we're going to be having a waterbreak summit March 27th and 28th here in Moscow. You know hometown of University of Idaho, you know fun college surrounding, you know I was explain our town is like we're like a college town surrounded by farmfield. So and the goal is, you know, people are really paralyzed by and frustrated and really don't know who to trust. I mean, of course, COVID I think exposed a lot of this. And and I think a lot of people are looking for truth and health truth and fitness truth in what we call faith and fitness and health. Kind of buzzword, but we're trying to name and claim it and reclaim the Lordship of Christ over our health, but also bringing kind of just basic back base information to you guys in your health lives. The biggest problem in the health industry and man, I talked to more and more as me, my wife have done this health show we've been connecting more and more to fate to leaders in the fitness industry and health industry is that we've kicked Jesus Lord out of this industry. It's really is time to reclaim Christ is Lord over health and restore basic truth and practical strategies for lasting wellness and that's our goal at this summit in March. Join us at the first ever waterbreak summit March 27th, 28th in Moscow Idaho here from speakers, including Ben Greenfield, Dr. Dr. Tabitha, Barbara, me, my wife, we got other speakers coming just talk to some good guys today and we really hope to see you guys there March 27th and 28th. It's just today true centered full of insights kind of summit and my screen is not going down anymore. I'm going to have to scroll. So let's reclaim a biblical vision of health. There's going to be a VIP limited tickets so you can go to waterbreak.tv waterbreak.tv and click on summit and you can buy regular tickets and VIP tickets to join us the VIP ticket really just covers the dinner on Friday night with the speakers and special guests and everything you're going to it's going to be great dinner. We're going to love to see you there on Friday night to and the summit kicks off that Friday night and then in Saturday. I think it like five o'clock and everything. So it should be a good time here in Moscow Idaho go to waterbreak.tv for more information. Lastly, before chase actually comes on the pen the tensions just growing here. We also have our first business makers network national conference in coming this April joined business makers network uniting hundreds of visionary business leaders nationwide for inspiration collaboration and transformation for our first annual national conference April 7th through the night that Lake Point church in Dallas, Texas for the title of the conference is risk-filled grow. The business of work and the wisdom of making money this conference will ignite your passion equipped with practical tools for business success and expand your Christian professional network nationally expect dynamic speakers from proven Christian business leaders like I guess I'm I me me I'm a proven. This is a little Eric re pass a record if you don't know they started their own AI company very excited about pastor Eric re joining us Brett Craig if you don't know him. They need don't know marketing and storytelling pastor C. R. Wiley pastor Michael Foster. Michael cyford from public square so many more angel cap shots from Red balloon it's going to be a great conference love to see you in Dallas April 7th 8th and 9th and of course stay tuned for more speakers because we got a great line up coming whether you're an entrepreneur starting a venture. Corporate leader employee aligning with your career with your faith with this conference will challenge you to maximize your impact and apply Christ fully to your work join the movement of courageous Christian business leaders reshaping businesses for the good of America join us April 7th 8th and 9th. Go to business makers dot network click on conference from their business makers dot network and we can't wait to see you there folks I'm for our interview today pastor Chase you might already know him he's a pastor of the Wells church and the well church boulder right but the Wells church. The well right singular well don't do an ask it's not it's just one well. This is one well. The Jesus Christ has the living water. I'm not the living water. Just the living water. The inner boulder right that is correct and he's the author of which is the reason for the interview today on offensive Christianity. Chase again man thanks for coming on the show again appreciate your brother. Hey glad to be here glad to have been there before in person sorry can be there in person this time but but glad to be her on the air yeah and so I you know I can to me like when I saw the title I was like that's a fun book to write. That's a fun book to write and of course everyone starts off an interview this way kind of like you know why why did you write the book but this one seems like kind of more of a loaded question this time like why did you write a book on offensive Christianity. Yeah it deals mainly the book with men and and I've been a Christian like my entire life was raising a Southern Baptist church and you know growing up and even jellicism of the 90s there were lots of kind of boomer I'll say boomer I'm not using that as a majority of just so everyone's clear just kind of that generation. Have these promise keepers conferences and there was an emphasis on manhood read books like wild at heart by John Eldridge yeah and there was always a dissatisfaction and a disconnect between what was being preached on Sundays and what was being encouraged on Friday nights on Friday nights men young christian men are encouraged to go conquer dominate you know ruthlessly eliminate the opponent from the field. And then you would go to evangelical churches listen to popular evangelical sermons read evangelical books in the same behavior that was encouraged on Friday night was often tarnished suppressed even called sinful that's not to say that of course that everything happens on Friday night is a good thing but there's a disconnect in our conversations about what it means to be a man in Christ pursuing the glory of God full of strength full of vigor and so my big thesis in the book is basically that the modern era. And particularly modern Christian churches have been teaching kind of a masculated Christianity they've been teaching a disembodied Christianity where we're it's all about our thoughts and feelings there's not a lot of action there's not a lot of strength vitality. And so that's why I wrote the book it really was written pretty quickly because these are thoughts I've been stoned on for a long time it's not like a research project where it's like I've got to go research this new topic I mean these are things that I've been reflecting upon as a past I've been seen another man you see it in the church today. We have a massive problem with low tea churches that just encourage kind of a latent ephemonycy and men and kind of herald the feminine nature as more spiritual as they're kind of natural instincts or more nurturing more inclusive more tolerant you might say. And and that encourages men to become that way which I think does a great disservice to men in the church and it leads to a host of problems and as Christian men if they are not strong and full of passion for the Lord in the glory of Christ and pursuing great things. The if they're weak the church becomes weak society becomes weak and so that's why I wrote the book that's kind of what's driving it. So kind of the background I guess is your assumption is which I would agree with is that most of the church. And the men and the most of the church mostly in jokal church nationwide is growing up and kind of an effeminate culture and it's rubbing off on them and and so we have let's say 95 percent of church maybe 99 maybe it's because I you know this kind of this concept of masculine men in the church is even I'd say it's maybe more encouraged than it has been in the last 10 years. But still feels like it's just starting to you know the masculinity and men is kind of that that idea is starting to be resurrected in the church. But it seems like you know 98 percent of the church nationwide still is not getting it. Yeah it does seem that way and even a lot of the literature that's out there written two men to equipment to help them. It's really good. I mean Michael Foster wrote the Ford for my book and he wrote a wonderful book called it's going to be a man. He took a long time to write that for it. I mean come on let's be honest. He does that. So you know like a lot of the literature like you said there's a there's kind of a new interest in it. There's a lot of news articles written about our young men returning to church. There's obviously news articles written on the radicalization of young women to the left. I wanted to take a different approach and I wanted to go back to first principles and I wanted to go back to the creation and I want to say like what does it mean to be a man. There's people asking what does it mean to be a woman. You know there's a famous documentary about this. It's a good documentary. But even the answer they give at the end of that is kind of lacking in some ways and then who's addressing them in. What does it mean to be a man. What does it mean to be a man who has a soul and a body and live fully alive to Christ. And that's why I get into a lot of biology in the book. I get into a lot of the creation account and and really questioning the narrative that our bodies are kind of holding us back or their natural impediments of course were corrupted by sin. We will wither you know we're there unless the Lord Terry's we will if the Lord Terry's we will die. But does that mean that our bodies are naturally a problem to be solved right is is our Christian is our approach to Christianity for men basically that their bodies are toxic or bad. And that their natural disposition their biological makeup the testosterone is a problem is in in in in the way of them glorifying God and loving other people and loving God and obeying this commitment. So I get into a lot of that in the book. Yeah. I'm going to ask kind of a parallel question here or use a parallel example to ask this question. On the flip side of the question I just asked if there is a resurgence of kind of encouraging masculinity in the church and so forth starting to happen. You know when I started cross politics back in 2016. I don't know of a show that was talking about Jesus and politics back in 2016. Now there's you know apology was doing doing some stuff but their their focus was like you know Mormonism, apologetic stuff like that abortion. That kind of stuff. Almola was doing his you know I don't know daily news brief basically but not not really a show like what we were doing. Now everyone's kind of doing it. But I've also found it's kind of hard in the conversation to talk about because now everyone's kind of doing it. Everyone's kind of starting to use the same language a little bit. Yeah Jesus is Lord over politics. Yeah you know. But I'm finding it hard to make the distinctions that are still needed because now everyone's doing it. And in the same way. How are you what how is your book unique in addressing the problem of masculinity in the church in a way that it's actually addressing it and not just talking and using the same words. Is that that question makes sense Chase? Yeah it makes sense. A lot of the literature that's directed towards men in the church is kind of kitschy. And it falls back to kind of masculine tropes about hobbies or what they should prefer and I talk about this in the book. It's totally great for men to enjoy hunting and fishing and starting businesses and all that kind of stuff. But they don't get down to anthropology and that's the big topic in our world. Theologically and it could be a century. I would prefer it not be I'd prefer us to get these things settled faster but this is a century of anthropological investigation. And so that's what I'm really bringing in this book is a theological anthropology as it relates to men. And that's what makes it kind of stand out unique as opposed to kind of relying on just talking about virtues that men should embody or you know wisdom that men should apply. Yes, yes, amen. That's great. But let's get into theological anthropology. Like what does it mean to be a man embodied. You know like what what are our bodies for and how do we put them into good service for the Lord. And that's. You know, I haven't seen any books that really deal with that like mine does. Yeah, yeah. So not only just granting your arguments from scripture but granting your arguments in the garden. That's correct. Yeah. So what we're doing is we're going back to the garden looking at the creation order Paul uses is instructively God designed the creation order to be instructive for us. And what does it mean that Adam was made man. You know, why does that matter at all does it matter at all was Adam toxic from the beginning this kind of nonsense. No, of course not we believe that everything was very good. You know, and we don't know of course Adam's tea levels. We don't know what age he was. These are all speculative things that I'm sure we could have a fun time discussing and debating. Tea levels were probably amazing. Yeah, perfect. I mean dialed in right there perfect. Along with his diet. Yeah, along with this diet. But based on just the expectation of men to have dominion to subdue the earth to name to let his wife to procreate all this stuff is baked into reality. And when the fall happens all that gets corrupted creation groans and cries out for deliverance as we see in Romans. But Jesus Christ didn't come to overthrow creation. Jesus Christ came to redeem all things to himself grace restores nature. And so we don't look at creation as some kind of mistake. It's actually a design. And so we see all throughout the Old Testament the things that men are celebrated for the Old Testament everyone from Samson to David. Moses Abraham the the the embodied virtues that they have are not just ideas. They're not just of course they had faith in God. So they have faith in God. But they're acting they're using their bodies to do things David uses body to throw the rocks with the sling and cut off the glides head. Right. And also dance before the Lord and sing songs and it's a it's a lived. What's something called lived experience right it's it's actually lived out faith. And that's what I'm trying to encourage Christians to do with offensive Christianity is look we need to go on the offense. We need to stop playing defense. We need to go on the offense and don't be surprised when you go on offense that your enemy thinks you're offensive because that's what a good offense does is you're offensive. And so we're encouraging that but we're also encouraging kind of a rejection of long house what what I described in the book long house and others have described dynamics within the church and society. This kind of normalization of feminization in every space that men enter into so typical workplace men in order to workplace there's laws that these workplaces have to hire a certain percentage of women. Otherwise they're discriminatory and then they have to report to HR if they do something that's too edgy or or anything like that and that kind of serves as a like a priestess of the workplace that they have to go confess their sins to them find absolution. And this is the world many men and have it and so I'm trying to encourage them how to live in that world but also how to push back against the darkness that they're encountering when they're not allowed to share their faith when they're not allowed to start a Christian Bible study with the mood scolded for their very nature. And for their faith these are the kind of things that I'm trying to offer men in the book. I tweeted out this week and I think this kind of gets into chapter two what you're doing what we were talking about and arguing for. This week I said in order to obey God you have to be saved by grace through faith first right for say by grace to faith or in order. So you got to be saved before you can genuine low Bay God but in order to be a faithful Christian you have you have to obey God is law and his word for far too long the American church has infused a sort of nozzusism into this question you get what I'm getting there so. And I say Presbyterians to reformers are current modern day Presbyterians talk this way to and there's a such this kind of Iki hesitancy to talk about faith and works. You know because immediately you jump to over say by works or we have some sort of Catholic view of salvation right and in the church I think this this modern kind of sensitivity I understand the we don't ever want to fall in the trap that we're saying we're saved by words. I don't know since it's a tibet of it I want to stay away from that trap but to me the problem that we've the ditch that we've really run into is that we never talk about works we we you know it's like it's like we've kind of separated you know it's like the nostist, you know spiritual good material bad kind of thing and it seems like the same conversations happen with masculinity and in the world. And then you know that I'm thinking of a very different kind of masculinity. And in chapter two you actually getting to Nietzsche getting to the number of areas now. I don't know because just show my ignorance here I didn't read deeply into the book is I have time this week because what I already said offline. And how does that kind of have painted the church into this corner that we're in where we've kind of rejected masculinity. Does that question make sense there yeah absolutely I mean I deal with the topic of kind of a disembodied spirituality so all throughout the enlightenment there's these figures that pop up that basically reduce Christianity and its application of the world to a set of ideas and propositions that you need to believe. And so instead of it being a in fleshed faith we worship a risen God who Jesus Christ has a body and not just his body the church on earth but his body a lot of these philosophies have come in and so it's really trophy today and I don't say trophy to be insulting I just mean like it's it's very common critique to say feminism and I put on the title and the subtitle right. Restoring for the men and feminize age of course but you have to understand that feminism is just one of many things that has come along that's reduced Christianity to some kind of idea or feeling inside of us instead of a salvation that is applied we're supposed to work out our salvation with fear and trembling for it's the Lord who works in us. And so this faith that we have must be applied and we should apply it to both male and female and unique ways not to say that there's not common there's not a common sin problem that we both have that's your common salvation we have in Jesus Christ but the virtues and the fruit of the spirit that we're supposed to live out and produce is going to be applied uniquely to men and women in different ways and so yeah absolutely ideal with no system that that word gets thrown around a lot a lot of people kind of make fun of it which is unfortunate because it's an ancient creed. It's an ancient Christian heresy but it's this idea right that that the body the mature world is on not just doesn't matter it's kind of like corrupt like utterly you know and that the goal is to be free from the corruption and people twist from in seven another places to kind of justify this kind of no stasism but just imagine the average experience of a man going into the evangelical church today most evangelical churches they're an experience a kind of therapeutic environment right where we're going to be in the church. The music is particularly tuned to produce a motion to get you feeling certain vibes they're going to dim the lights we're going to sing songs to kind of a boyfriend in the sky and then the preaching itself is rarely applied to life it's more of a disembodied like good feelings like and you see this most often when cultural crises come up in the world because pastors are trying to keep their congregation unified which is good and principle but applied poorly there in order to do that. We pacify people which is how I often describe this kind of feminized faith it's like a pacifier or spiritual Xanax that is being offered where instead of speaking to issues directly they just go hey everybody get along it's like a kindergarten or the teachers like hey everybody just calm down everybody get along remember love everybody and yeah Jesus have a good week and people walk out and they're like okay yeah right you know and that's what they think it means to glorify God that's what they think it means to follow Christ. Is to be pacified and of course we should find peace in Christ we should find life in Christ but that peace and life does not suppress our natural instincts to to win to go on offense to have dominion does that mean we want to counter setbacks now does that mean we won't have weakness in this life no we'll be tempted all this kind of stuff but we've lost a vision for productivity for accomplishment for winning for ambition for desire for big dreams and so yeah a lot of it comes from that attacking this kind of detached. Disembodied faith that I think propagates and plagues the church today and you know one of my big convictions is that our civilization is crumbling in many ways there's two things our civilization is crumbling in many ways because Christian has been reduced connect to a disembodied faith and to if the church doesn't speak to these matters plainly today instead embraces this feminized faith it is no wonder that young men are going to go looking somewhere else and looking outside the church for voices that will speak to their nature. Well it's in their nature to do these things so I'm going to go listen to business coach I'm going to go listen to these other voices and set up the church taking front and center and say no this we know from God's word we know how to talk about these issues and I'm just hoping that the church will many people buy the book and be equipped and know how to talk about these issues young men. Yeah I'll ask this question now what what do you think are the issues today that young men need to be discipled on as it relates to you know not just masculinity but like I mean no one's talking about it we need to be that we need to be the type of these young men no one else is talking about it. Yeah I think I think strength fitness health I think these things are crucial for our embodied existence not a lot of pastors are talking about it. There's kind of a joke I don't know why like I'm a boulder so there's a lot of fit people so it's really not a obesity is not a huge problem in boulder but like you know the comment rope is like there's all these sins that we address we never talk about the son of glutney but that would be a great one like talk about the son of glutney talk about what he needs to enjoy good food and enjoy good drink but have control and have self control and have to many over your body and control it and put it to good use and that's the other one would be controlling your passions and it's not a big deal. So I think that's the only way to get the passion and emotions and emotions and really mastering your own body is is fundamental and so as a Christian man you've got to learn to master those feelings of despondency depression anger whatever may be and govern yourself as Christ governs you and submit to his law and every fast of life including your passions and so really that fitness component encouraging young men to be strong. This is one thing that young men are often you know looking for instruction on because we live in a very slavently society where people don't dress well. Hey, what does it look like to live out kind of a male existence while we honor God's creation while we honor our own bodies because they are temples and we honor that and we adorn ourselves appropriately before the Lord and a lot of people don't talk about that because they're scared of either becoming you know modesty police or something like this or they just like it's not a big deal. Or they just like ignore it completely and just say you know it doesn't matter you come to church see this on every church website come however you want you know it doesn't matter how you dress all this kind of stuff instead of giving clear instruction like hey this is what the expectation is if you show up not able to wear this or whatever we don't have this on our website but I'm giving an example that's fine but like we're not giving clear instruction like it's good for a man to have broad shoulders it's good for a man to look fit it's it's a normal and then I talk about discernment. Discernment as well and in terms of this is natural to to the human existence it's not wrong how we discern things just by parents many times of course God sees the heart but we have to discern by appearance because we're human and so you're the way you dress the way you carry yourself the way you talk the way you behave all these things haven't have an impact on other people and a lot of churches and a lot of Christians just aren't thinking about it talking about it instead there's a lot of voices outside. The church and a lot of people that are not Christians that do talk about it and that's why young men are drawn to them. Most real estate transactions happen at pivotal moments in life both happy and sad like a growing family or the loss of loved ones a story real estate buying and selling homes isn't just closing deals the folks over there know that it is a big life moment. Now if you're love serving people through these types of moments story real estate is looking for great people to join their team their website is story real estate calm and if the mini tab is selected more information can be found there to join the team. So I asked you what issues what are some of the hot button issues that you think men need to be young men need to be cycled on right now and you said fitness that's that's a little I guess shocking. To start there actually you know after I think about okay less you know father hunger you know bunch of issues and you start with fitness why do you think fitness is such a high area of focus that we think that you think the church needs to hit on as it comes to the cycling and I come and I actually I got a bunch of thoughts on this with we do me my wife do a health and fitness show called water break. Water break our summit in March I will actually be addressing kind of the big health and vision of I think for where we're at how we got here and what we need to be doing move forward so I'm thinking about this and so that's why I'm asking the questions kind of coming from there too why is that such a high on the chart of discipleship for young men. To the degree that our bodies have been taken advantage of or we've done harm to our own bodies through what we consume in our lifestyle or laziness or a society it will impact our ability to honor the Lord in other areas and I think that a lot of for a lot of Christian guys they do want to deny sin they want to kill their sin they want to put to death loss they want to they want to be a master of these things but they're not filling it with with a lived embodied. The bigger for the Lord in all areas of life and I think fitness is one of the key areas where if they would say no to lust say we're not going to do that and then fill it with activity productive activity fitness is one of the easiest ones go like going for a run which I hate running but you can go for a run to lift weights compete on front of me like a dog on that ball yeah. But as you as you busy yourself doing something like that you are you are learning to control your body which is you're teaching yourself to control like you have to many know for yourself that's going to teach you how to have to many know for your emotions as well and a lot of our so use kind of a fake word kind of our dysfunction but to use a real world word or sin a lot of the kind of sin pattern sin habits that people have developed over time need to be. Need to be killed but a lot of times men aren't helping themselves by consuming junk food and being fat and lazy and not getting fit these other works so there's got to be of course i'm not denying that we should work out to the glory of God we should all things the glory of God but master in your bodies one of those key things in the reason it's important today in our industrialized society so many men are stuck in a cubicle the stock minus screen there pushing buttons on a blue screen to make somebody reply to them on a blue screen you know it's very good. Boring tedious work for many many day and so in prior ages we could have just said go work in the field you know like do do normal work and today fitness I think it's so important because we're trying to offset a lot of the natural consequences of sitting all day and not being active and so I think fitness is just one of those key ones where look we need to be fit the other area I would say fitness matters is that we need strong men to defend our families we need strong men to defend our churches and we need strong men to defend our nation. And Christian men should be embodying that strength that we have in Jesus Christ it should be applied and all throughout the Bible we see of course we see weakness addressed we see temptation addressed we see all this kind of stuff and and being fit and being strong is not going to save you these things are not going to keep you from the temptation it's not as if you just get fit all the temptation will cease but I've seen so many men grow in their faith once they become masters of their body once they get their tea levels increase because weightlifting does that once they get their diet and check and they're not eating ice cream every night all this kind of stuff leads to a host of other solutions and helps in their life where they can better glorify God. So the common verse that's brought up and I believe this verse I think it's very good I think there's a lot of wisdom in it but this is just again maybe just kind of like a counter question really you know the first Timothy says God the exercise profits little I mean God the exercise is the is the bigger issue we should be focusing on the physical exercise profits little kind of thing how in the context of how you're ranking this how do you address that that scripture. Yeah so it says it does matter so we get that's a yeah it's a first principle so we're starting with the text we're going look he says it does matter he uses all sorts analogies elsewhere to talk about the runner running the race you know people boxing all this kind of stuff all these analogies are used. It's not soldiers all this kind of stuff and so of course godliness is fundamental is fundamental we never want to minimize that talk about that in the book as well. But in our age the temptation of the church is to just not deal with physical training physical fitness embodied existence is to just deal with godliness and that godliness is offered off often offered and disembodied form so it's often offered especially in reform circles as knowing more right reading more getting your doctrine dialed in which is great love that gets your doctrine dialed in and what you were asking earlier applies to this. That godliness must be applied in your life and so I still think it's of some value we see all throughout the Bible that strong men do great deeds for the Lord there can also do great harm for the Lord and so of course we want to have our lives submitted to Christ we want all of our life to be submitted to Christ but our physical bodies do matter and we don't live in some kind of hope that the world is just going to burn that our bodies going to burn and will be set set free from a body is where to call to have dominion over our bodies. So this goes back a little bit to the title so far to me I haven't heard anything really offensive. Maybe I'm just a tough audience or something for you for me. You know are you what are you encouraging in this moment about men being offensive or about offensive Christianity what what is particular to the moment that needs to be. Offensive yeah Christian and need to get comfortable calling out the sins of the world I mean bottom line they need to get comfortable in conflict that's part of the low to epidemic that's why focus on the body is because as your tea levels decline you are unable to reason well. You're unable to deal with conflict and we have a hostile world we're living in some people called it a negative world right and we need Christian men who are able to reason biblically and have the right emotional attunement their passions are tuned to the Bible to hate what God hates and love what God loves and that's going to require them to get active to get involved to get involved in politics business anything and everything you can name it they that that's not to overwhelm in. With the problems face that I think many Christmas see the problems face that face today but they're neat going to need to have confidence and and it's it's fundamental to have confidence in Christ you must be found in Christ but that confidence in Christ can also be played out in our bodies has to be. And part of the problem interfacing is because of the lack of vigor the lack of encouragement about fitness and strength in the environment there around they just don't know what to do with it. Or it goes sideways or they must use it and some encouragement to get involved politically to confront the idols of our day like for example Michael Cassidy who endorsed my book went to Iowa and took down that St. Tannic statue right. These are I'm not encouraging any kind of violence or breaking of the law I am encouraging Christian men to look when you see a Hindu statue in Texas you should call a legislator and say hey this isn't good for me my kids or my neighbor. I don't think this is right right if you have any kind of political power exercise that political power to promote godliness in our land and that's what it's going to mean to be offenses so what we're going to do is we're going to call out the idols of our day we're going to talk about issues pertaining to immigration and all this kind of stuff abortion and we're not going to be. So nuanced about it that it's never clear and it's just muddy and we're just trying to keep people happy and so one of the key battlegrounds for men Christian men is the home of course there's a lot of wisdom so called wisdom offered by older generations like happy wife happy life and of course all good godly men want their wives to be happy ultimately happy in the Lord right. But we don't worship our wives right we worship the living God and so learning how to navigate and apply that biblical wisdom that we need and leading our homes and loving our wives well that's also going to be a challenge because it's going to require men to tell their wives know sometimes right it's going to and that's going to be perceived as offensive and so when when Christians just stand for the truth in the public square or at the school board meeting or whatever it may be. Men need to be okay with being perceived as offensive because that's what they're doing as long as they do it for the glory of God and according to God's word and so that's what I'm encouraging men to do is get active get involved and push back the darkness that's ever encroaching in our land we need more Christian men of strength and holiness and godliness to push back against darkness everywhere it's found yeah seems like like every virtue there's a ditch. And especially it seems like and our times I don't know the ditches seem very wide right now and you know an 18 year old comes to you or 22 year old comes to you and says okay. I had no dad. I kind of grew up in the church kind of rejected the church you know got tired of them turning the lights off and I was trying to worship whatever. How how would you disciple a young man in this moment and also help them avoid you know ditches of like you know the macho is on the the the kind of masculinity that is more about shouting in chess bumps than it actually is about true masculinity masculinity it seems to me it's easier to kind of encourage people away from the effeminate men away from the effeminate ditch. But then once you get them on the trajectory is like you know how do you disciple him to be kind of virtue healthy and in the masculine that God has given him. Yeah it's a good observation and you're hitting on something I think Aristotle talks about in the Bible talks about it as far as the ditches but when we think about manhood and we think about men living virtuous lives onto the Lord Jesus Christ if a young man were to come to me with that kind of thing which we do get because we're in a college town. So that's not uncommon at all the first thing we're going to do is encourage them to submit their lives to the living God right Jesus Christ so we're going to encourage them to get involved in the church to kill their sin and take personal ownership over their life own life and we're going to encourage them to get a job if they don't have a job to work if they're in college then study hard you know try to get top grades. We're going to encourage them to find a spouse again none of this is like macho stuff and then we're going to encourage them to find fellowship with other guys so we have men's nights a lot of our guys at the church work out we're going to encourage them to get involved with with other guys at the church so they can find fellowship they can be encouraged. One thing that is very hard to find today for young man is spaces where they can just be men that's very rare because it's kind of an outlawed in our world you can't find like male only gyms and so many spaces that they can belong to and be men and be sharpened for for a young man that that wants to grow that has ambition i'm going to be careful that I don't squash what is godly ambition but channel that good godly ambition whether it's like I want to make a hundred million dollar company or you know I want to dominate this industry whatever it is I want to of course keep an eye on any kind of ungodly ambition but at the same time we want to channel that to the glory of god and so no network him I want to connect him with other people who might be able to mentor him because I don't I've not started a hundred million dollar company. And so so yeah those are yeah so I want to just encourage basic stuff and that's what's so been been so forgotten that's why talk about in the book is a lot of the stuff that was very common like wisdom stuff Bible applied 300 years ago has just been forgotten and it's just normal stuff we just we won't have a job get married to one of church be a productive member of society. And then from there once we got those building blocks in place then we can talk about other you know avenues of of attack or going on the offense or that kind of thing and we're going to equip them with any kind of resources they need to stand strong for Christ and the workplace or on college campus so those are kind of basic things. I know you got to go last question here how much is this you know book kind of written from your own I know lack of experience growing up at the church. Yeah it's mainly written from my own dissatisfaction of what was not talked about in the church so you know I never speak I try not to ever speak ill of the church I was raised in or my father my I have a great dad provided generously to me providing me with a Christian education but yeah a lot of it had to do with like I had questions you know I had questions and that's why I sympathize with a lot of people who ask ask questions in church say that's why I like being a pastor a lot of people have questions. And so like one of the that's why I talk about aesthetics in the book and beauty in the book so much is like one of the questions that is a young man as young tager was like why can I wear sandals to church you know that doesn't make sense Jesus for sandals that does make me sense and and all the questions that all the answers I got were just like we'll just don't. And like you know it was fairly unsatisfying there wasn't like a first principles approach or biblical approach or kind of a vision. For why we should dress up all the kind of stuff it was just like obey the rules and so yeah a lot of it did stem from a little bit of dissatisfaction there but I never want to give that to much credit it's more of a positive vision for you know what I want my sons to live by how I want my sons to grow up and how I would love to see more Christian men kind of embody the Christian life and in every aspect of their life. Yeah so you could maybe even describe this book as like a positive vision for biblical masculinity yes absolutely definitely a positive vision even though we're going on the attack and attacking things left and right yeah that's very good pastor chase man thank you so much for coming on cross Paul to go on one with me man appreciate it thank you so much for having me glad to be here yeah well hope you guys enjoy the interview makes you share the show oh I forgot to ask pastor but probably the best place to buy the book is either Amazon or founders that's likely actually bring pastor chase back on here it's working. Where's the best link that you like people to go yeah go over to founders press look up a fantasy Christianity it's on pre order right now hoping to ship those in May probably so really yeah so it's all pre order right now so go pre order so we know how many to get out there and then yeah once it comes out it'll be in other places but go to go to the pre order on founders press website guys in the pre order stuff is very important for authors and for the publishers man make sure you guys go to founders press dot org is that right dot org founders press press dot founders dot org slash shop slash offensive dash Christianity you can find the link for the right now make sure you get a pre order so it looks like it'll be coming out April maybe at the latest May make sure you get the pre order get going and I'm a offensive Christianity are you doing like booklets any kind of you know Bible study is kind of booklets or something as a result of this is there anything else kind of coming out along with it. Yeah we'll see I'm getting some speaking opportunities I'll be speaking up in Washington state and obviously speaking our men's conference here in Boulder I podcast over full proof theology and I'll be talking about the book and the themes related to the book over there. So yeah we'll see we'll see what unfolds what got has for me but for now go pre order the book today awesome if for speaking request what's the best link there your church website. Yeah go to J chase Davis dot com and reach out to me that way say that again J chase Davis dot com J chase Davis dot com all right pass chase Lord bless you have a good week everyone make sure you share the show and we'll see you next week.