Latest / Pod Therapy / #386: Befriending Coworkers, Ending Therapy, Brainspotting

Transcript

#386: Befriending Coworkers, Ending Therapy, Brainspotting · Pod Therapy

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: So no damn.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: You from fabulous Las Vegas, No mata. This is pod therapy,
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: real people, real problems, and real therapists. You could submit
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: your questions anonymously at pod therapy dot net or email
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: us at pod therapy Guys at gmail dot com. Broadcasting
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: from the chart and that's Jim, that's Whitney.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: I'm Nick.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: It's time for some pod therapy.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: For the end of the story is I'm drunk at
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Hibachi place and I'm like, this is great. I'm having
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: a great time. And my family's like, do you think
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: you could do what the hibachi guy does? And I'm like,
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: I have a fucking Blackstone. I can one hundred percent
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: do what this guy's doing. I can do Gorilla. We
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: almost this is this is.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: To give Peter his dollar.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: I can do it.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: I can.
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: It was like, why does Jim keep bringing up Blackstone.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Because I'm looking awesome at it. So I it online
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: and I order myself a Hibachi hat, like a chef hat.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Good because I don't want to just look silly backyard.
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, pay respect to this.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: So it says it'll be delivered tomorrow, and I'm like,
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: fuck yeah, Amazon, way to go. I'm doing a bachi
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: this weekend. Well, then the next day I get a
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: text from my mom and it's her wearing my hibachi hat,
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: and she goes, hey, did you forget to change your dress? Yeah,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: so mom has a hibachi hat. Good. Good. Now that
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: I'm sovered up, I'm like, maybe I don't care.
• 1:30
  Speaker 4: Also, there should definitely be pictures of your mom and
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: hibachi hat on our patriot.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I could do that right now. I'll just yeah,
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: that should just exist on our patrio. I'll just be
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: this episode patreon dot com slash therapy.
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: Head on over there see pics of Jim's mom in
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: a halbachi hat and nothing else.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: I didn't say it. There's a level we didn't need
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: to because we all knew was you can't just set
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: me up. I'm like Michael Scott, she said, you're just jealousy.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: You didn't think of it first anyway, patroon dot com
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: slash therapy. As we near the end of this magical
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: mental health awareness month, you should know that if you
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: charge that if you are at the thera producer, partner
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: or hire, you get to nominate a name for Emma's
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: new horse. We are putting out a pole on the
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: last day of May. This episode will air with some
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: time to spare. If you are anywhere a member of
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: our Patreon at any level, you will have access to
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: the poll with all the nominee names. You can vote.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: It's winner take all. I am very excited for it.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: This is going to be a lot of fun. We've
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: also had people feeding the pony. It's been great yep.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: So videos have been going up on our Instagram page.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: If you'd like to see this pony eating, go to
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: our pod therapy guy's instagram and you can see videos
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: of Emma feeding I think both the ponies at this point.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: So a sonny boy has just been spamming this fucking button.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: He's just been like feed then, yeah, he wrote in
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: piss because he's like, the button only lets me check
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: out once. It's like okay, and he's like, well, I'm
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: just gonna donate to charity and you gotter fucking feed
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: the horse. Okay, So he sent receipts. It's like, here's money,
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: I gave it to charity for the horse again, so
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: that's pretty great. So yeah, that's available on our store,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: patreon dot com slash therapy. You could see it all
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: up there. If you are out there and you would
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: like a free account. We have had some very generous
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: folks this month donate a gift account, so we have
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: the code ready to go. All you have to do
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: is ping us. You can get hold of us however
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: you want to, just the email us and say hey,
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: I'll take one of those free accounts. We don't ask
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: any questions and we'll send you back the link. You
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: click it, boom, you're in. Nobody will know that you
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: are using a free account, and we will forget within seconds,
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: and it doesn't matter. We'll announce you about to say
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: we also won't know. We will guaranteed forget that this
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: even happened. So thank you to those who have been
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: buying sponsorships. Thanks to those who are using the sponsorships.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: It's a great time and we really do appreciate you.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: But the month is coming to an end, so we
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: want that support. Get on there Patreon, dot com, slash
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: therapy and now you can choose the annual renewal option
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: and a lot of you have been, which is really cool.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: Make May your annual renewal month, and that way every
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: year you'll get around to the May is mental Health
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Awareness month and you'll be like, oh yeah, click the button,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: renew my membership and go for another year. You get
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: lots of extra content on our Patreon Every week, just
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: about every Monday, we release new stuff. Nick, you had
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: an episode where you interviewed the famous, the illustrious Slurpi
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: Kai motherfucker.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like that was a couple of weeks ago.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Last week this week, my second installment of Artificial Intelligence
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: and Psychotherapy aired.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the conversational Slurpy definitely yet.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Slurpee also has a great horse name that he
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: has nominated. It is Slurpy's horse. Do not touch. That's
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: just what he wants. The name. It's pretty solid. Put
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: that on.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: It's a solid move. It's a very good move. And
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: and Manu, if you're listening and we don't use that
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: for the.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: Horse, Yes, that's right. Anything that's like to fine, Jim
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Wi fine with it. Like jokes. He's got a great
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: sense of humor. Rabid horse. Oh that would be great
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: baby Yeah yeah, okay, yeah, oh yeah.
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: Nick, I'm not a Patreon member. I can't nominate names
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: for the horse. Anybody for the baby.
• 5:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's open season anyway, it's not great taste, but
• 5:25
  Speaker 5: anyone could do it.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: They should. Patroon dot com slash Therapy, thank you for
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: all your support this month and for the reviews. Thank
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: you for jumping onto Apple iTunes or on Spotify or
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: on good Pods and dropping us a review giving us
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: those stars. It does help us get noticed out in
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: the world and it's really really great. So thank you
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: for powering the show financially. With your Spirit. We love
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: it and we've got some great questions for it. With
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: their money, we do a spirit. Yeah, your spirit's great. Yeah,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: but they'll take it money. Money. Money helps, That's what
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: really runs the show. Yeah. It turns out the the
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: internet hosting serve that we use they don't take any spirit, right, Yeah,
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: they only try it. Yeah. I keep trying to send
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: them checks with spirit not happening. First question on today's show,
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: Making Friends with a Colleague. Hi Whitney, Nick, Jacob, and
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: Jim Hello. Hello, I've been listening to your podcast since
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: before COVID and it's left a huge impact on my life.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: Thought i'd toss in a question and get some advice.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: I'm a guy who is very easily impressed by people.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: I met someone in a professional setting a year and
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: some change ago, and he is probably the most kind
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: and humble person I've met. We've talked quite a bit
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: since we first connected, and try to hang out in
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: person whenever our schedules allow, though it's not very often.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: As time has passed, I've started to care about him
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: a lot on a personal level. I didn't have a
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: lot of strong male role models growing up, so he's
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: assumed that role for me quite easily. He's probably everything
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: I want to be, and the more I sit on
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: these feelings, the more I want to be around him
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: all the time. I understand that I only witness parts
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: of him and that he's not perfect. That's where the
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: being impressed too easily part comes in, But I want
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: to connect with him personally. I hope you'll believe me
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: when I say that these feelings are just not romantic
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: at all. I guess my question is how do I
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: deal with this mess of feelings? Is it appropriate to
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: propose being friends and not just professional contacts? What if
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: he doesn't feel the same way. It all sounds dumb
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: for a guy who's nearly thirty to be feeling this way,
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: but I lost access to the anonymous Gmail account I
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: used to send in a question a few years ago.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: So this is your pal who was a hoe for
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: Edgar Allan Poe. Oh yeah, I remember this guy. I
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: love you all, especially Whitney. Thanks name that tune there it.
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: Is you are.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: He's pretty damn good. Wow. Yeah, I kind of want
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: one of those to have the trombones. Oh oh, that's
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: a great idea.
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: So they mentioned having an anonymous Gmail account if somebody
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: sends a question in anonymously, though, like we don't see
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: their email, right if they?
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: If they? Yeah, great questions. So if there's a link
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: on our description confused, Yeah, so on the website or
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: in the episode description, no matter how you're listening to
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: the pod. Uh, there's a link to a anonymous Google
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: form and so people can always submit there and we
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: will only see whatever they wrote. It doesn't ask them
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: to log into Google or anything like that. This writer
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: used to go by the name Edgar Allan Hoe and
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: wrote in as Edgar Allan Hoe and had a Gmail
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: account called Edgar Allan and apparently he forgot the password.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: So now I think you just sended in from his
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: regular account. Was like, hey, I've written I met.
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: By the way, if you don't tell us like to
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: read your name in the email. Even if you just
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: send it into the email, We're read it. Yeah, your
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: email could be Jacob Smith at Yahoo. And then you
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: say please identify me.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: Honestly, by the time it gets copied and pasted into
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: our share.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: Don't catch anyway.
• 9:05
  Speaker 5: Unless you put your name in the text, you notice it,
• 9:09
  Speaker 5: nobody cares.
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: It's very easy to be anonymous. You can be you
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: will be accidentally enough yous. Yeah, unless you identify yourself
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: in your letter, that's right.
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: As far as making friends with colleagues, oh my gosh,
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: my first well, the first job I had out here
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: in Vegas, Eagle Quest. That was like the first big
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: girl job I feel like I had is what I
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: call like, okay, this is like between you were raising eagles. Yeah, yeah,
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: so working there I started and this was probably like
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: twenty thirteen, I guess. So Facebook was like very trendy
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: still and all that stuff, and I was like, there's
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: one case manager that had sent me a friend request,
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: and I was like, I don't do I cross that line?
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: Do I cross that? That's like how how do you decide?
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: Because it's like, you know, toothpaste out of the tube.
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: You can't put it back in. So once you open
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: up that door, it's like you can't really shut it
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: without it being awkward. And I know that's not exactly
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: what this person's sharing, but it can make it tricky
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: to navigate because you don't want to put other people
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: in that position either, like, hey, I think you're really cool,
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: like should we be friends? And then they're thinking, isn't.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: That it's such an interesting energy And I really like
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: that Edgar like gave us that energy. From a masculine perspective,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: it does exist, and we don't talk about it a lot.
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: No, that's true.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: Girls will talk about this. I'm like, oh my god,
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: I have such a girl crush on this chick, Like
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: she's so cool, hang out, hang out, Like I just
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: love this girl. She's the best. And like, I think
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: that that's very like normalized in girl culture. We see
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: that in movies and stuff, and it's like a vibe
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: and like you describe that in other girls. But like
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: I totally you're talking about I've had mad girl crushes.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: We don't talk about that a lot in masculine culture.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: And I really like that the writer talks about it
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: because I think that this is really relatable, Like I
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: do think that you bump to people occasionally with work
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: or just in life and you're like, this person's great,
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: Like I would totally hang out this person anytime they
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: ever called, Like I just I like that person a lot.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you who I most recently remember having this
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: kind of vibe with. It was last scoop Fest and
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: you and I Nick, we went to mcmullins with Scott
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: and I'm just We're hanging out with Scott for like
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: an hour and a half and I'm just like, Scott
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: fucking rules, Like this guy's so fucking cool and just
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: like we're just hanging out, he's telling stories, great vibe.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: I'm just thinking to myself, like I need to make
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: sure that I link back up with Scott. This guy's
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: fucking awesome. But like just a great moment there where
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: I'm like, this guy's great, Like I need to look
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: for an excuse to be friends with that guy again
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: and bump into him. And then I saw him at
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: the Bucket show. It's like, hey, buddy, you know, it's
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: great to see you. And he's like, hey, come with
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: me to the bar, like we're hanging out, Like I'll
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: interest my friend's like okay, and just like it's really
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: cool to see him again. But it's like that kind
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: of energy that you bump into and like, I think
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: it's great that the writer talks about that. I relate
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: to that. Yeah, yeah, like yeah, And I think with
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: male culture it's, you know, you can't be is outward
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: about it, like totally yeah. Girls who can flatter each other,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: it's it's expected to flatter each other With guys, think
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: you have to like be more subdued, you know, and
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: you just don't do that. Nice dick bro, and we're ready.
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: I think beards got like yeah, yeah, just keep touching
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: each other.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: So do you relate to this at all?
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: Yes, definitely, uh someone definitely definitely some Yeah, there are
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: definitely people that I meet and I kind of just
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: kind of like vibe with. I'm just kind of like, oh,
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: we oh, here's a good story. This is funny. So golf,
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna bring up golf.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: On this just people a dollar Nixon bring golf on
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Cook on his blackstone on the golf course. So I
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: was golfing, yea trailer hit on the towing a blackstone.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: So me and uh, what was dangerous by the way
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: that is very should not do that.
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: It just let go down the sidewalk.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: One of the guys that golf with he's from Wisconsin.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: I'm from Iowa.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there go.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: And we were on the driving range and the guy
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: who was next to me at the driving range is like, hey,
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: uh I think I know you. He's like, you play
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: in the v G N right. It's like, yeah, I do.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: And he's like yeah I do too.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: It's like oh yeah, so it's never that, No, it's never.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: So anyway, we got to talk and whatever, and we
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: had a guy canceled the last minute and he was
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: just out hitting balls on the on the range. It's like, well, hey,
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: if you want to play, we need we need another guy.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: He's like all right, cool. So then he joined us.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: He's from Minnesota. So afterwards we're hanging at the bar,
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: you know, talking after the round and just start we
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: go into Midwest culture.
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: Okay, and I got it's like we're connected.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And so I was like, okay, on the count
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: of three, what food do you all miss? The most? One, two, three,
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: and all three was like cheese curds.
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: But so anyway, yeah, so there's there's yeah, there's sometimes
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: you just kind of connect with people like you kind
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: of got a history or you kind of know from
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: the same area whatever. So I totally get that. But yeah,
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: there is a different thing I think between men and women.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: Like if a guy came up to me he is like, hey,
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: can we be friends, I'd probably be like no, no.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: Simply because you asked me that. Yeah, we're business.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: If you would have just been like, hey, let's go
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: grab a beer, I'd be like, all right, cool, let's
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: go do that.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: That's the move. Yeah, that's don't don't confess really well, women.
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: Do that too. It's like let's go get coffee. Let's like,
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: do you want to go to this concert? I don't know,
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: I'm maybe not a concert, but if you all had
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: a connection over music, yeah, probably that's the same thing.
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: I think it'd be more intimate situations than like sitting
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: side by side at a bar or something.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Like I recently did go through something similar
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: with the coworkers, So you and l V I kind
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: of started hanging out with the larger department and like
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: some other like uh departments that that are in this
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: larger college, and so like I definitely met this guy
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: he's really cool. He's from the South, just like we
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: have a lot in common. He's a really nice guy.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: And I started thinking like, man, I just really like
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: again explained to him that I'm a Kentucky colonel and
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: he was like, oh great. And I was like, no,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: I literally carry a card on me at all times
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: to prove this, and he's like, no, I believe you
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: don't show.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: Which is which is a shortcut to we will not
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: be from I.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: Can just like really impress these guys. But oh shit,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: I gotta hang out with Kentucky colonel. But yeah, super
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: nice guy. But like I totally get that energy that
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Edgar's talking about where it's like, all right, dude, we
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: work together, you know, like in our capacities. We don't
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: work directly, like he teaches his classes, I teach mine
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: or whatever. We hang out in the same department. But
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: then it's like the opportunity of like, hey, look, I
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: do want to just like a lot of times, I
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: think coworkers are where you're going to make friends as
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: an adult. Yeah right, I mean just like it's where
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: you spend eight hours a day, you know, it's like
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: where you bump into people. Yeah, So like this advice
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: that Edgar's talking about, like a when you're feeling that
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: kind of emotional energy of like, hey, I really admire
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: this guy. But like Edgar's also self aware and able
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: to say, hey, man, I need to just like right
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: size this because I get like this. You know, I
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: developed the man crush. I think this person's really cool.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: I never had like the elder mentor dude like older friend,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: older brother, and so like, I'm enamored with this guy
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: a little bit. I think he's great, and I just
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: want to be around this dude and I want to
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: hang out with him, and like, but in masculine culture,
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: you can't telegraph that, you know, and here's not usually
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: gonna work.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: Let me clarify, it shouldn't.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: Be that way, right. We should be okay saying that yes, yeah.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and we should be just like, hey, you're cool,
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: I like to spend a time with you, let's hang out,
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: let's be friends.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: I think we have our version of that's it's understated,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: but we have that version where you can kind of
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: use humor, but you've got to be able to lay
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: it on like that where you could say this, you're
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: fucking awesome man, like you know, you and the Wisconsin
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: guy probably like yucking it up at some points, like
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: you're awesome, dude, you have a card or something like
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: I want to stay in touch. We should golf again,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: you know, like you can. You can start that that
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: like nudget into the next like let's bump into each
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: other another time, like this was lovely. There's an energy
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: to that where I think you can celebrate the person.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: But again, you have to keep a lid on that pod,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: like for it to pass the like comfortability time.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: I've always found it too easier if there's multiple people, okay,
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: like hey, we're both into the same same like we
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: both like dungeons and dragons or something like that. Come over, Hey,
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: I got a group coming over. You should you should
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: join us? See something like that. And it's easier sometimes
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: for people to kind of ease into like I guess
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: so you.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: Don't have to explain it.
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you don't have to be like, hey, I like you,
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: I would really like to be friends. Just say hey,
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: here's this thing that's happening, let's go do it.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: You want to go? You want to go hang out
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: and do this thing? That'd be awesome. So a good
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: line that this professor had used with me, were we're
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: yucking it up to stay away from me. I'm pressing, Yeah,
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: this is the last time I'm gonna tell you so funny.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: He's always making these jokes. But no, we were. We
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: were laughing about something common and we both kind of
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: grown up in the same culture. And then it says
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: something like, dude, why have we not gotten a beer yet?
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: And like that was a great line because I was like, yes,
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: let's let's do that. That's right, yeah, oh great question.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: Let me give you the answer. It was like perfect, yeah, man,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: let's do it. And so he was like, great, when
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: when are you next on campus? Let's go grab your
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: But like it very much turned into and I think
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: it made it a lot lighter. Your point nick about
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: sometimes it breaks a little bit more ice to invite
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: a third it'll be like, oh, yeah, this so and so,
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: and it's exactly what happened. He was like, oh, yeah,
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: this other guy is gonna you know, we were gonna
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: go out this other day watch come with us, dude,
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: we're gonna watch a night's game. And it's like grab
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: a beer and like great, okay, So like everything is advancing,
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: like the friendships are moving along the pipes. Here, you're
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: you're getting more and more comfortable each other, and you have,
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: you know, clearly expressed everybody like you're great. I think
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: this is fun. Let's keep doing this. I like that move.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: So there's enough of it that can be telegraphed that
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: the other human receives as, oh, great, we're getting along. Yeah,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: let's keep hanging out. But it doesn't, you know, need
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: to go much further than that as far as how
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: much praise you're giving them, because you know, sure, I mean,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: we're just not used to that in society. So I
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: think you can be like, oh, am, I mistaken this
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: as a romantic thing, like are you trying to telegraph
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: something more than you intend? And people are just not
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: used to compliments anymore either. Some I think that makes
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: it harder.
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: What I like about that line too, why haven't we
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: grabbed a beer yet? Is if somebody is not wanting
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: to handle like say, they are just being nice, that
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: could be happening to be sure, Yeah, it gives the
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: other person kind of an out to the oh, I've
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: been just so busy out and then but yeah, gosh,
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: I got a lot going on, or I can't really, like,
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: you know, go out with people I work. I just
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: don't cross that line, like I don't know again, sure.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: I don't really, but I'm moving to Africa. Yeah, now
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: you got to follow through on this. Lie. My hair
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: is discussed. I would out, but that's the night I
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: go hunting for scorpions in my back.
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: Do you want to come do it?
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: Yes? That is a perfect guy date right there, Like,
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: oh dude, we should hang out. Hey, man, I have
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: a second pistol. Do you have a gilly suit? Yes?
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: But I like that because it gives a soft out
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: where it's like, hey, we're still connecting. It's cool, but
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: I'm kind of setting a boundary that feels not as
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: like harsh or direct shut down right.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think finding that first like thing to
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: go out and do together helps. Like for Nick and
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: I we started hanging.
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: Out, all start dating, furious.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Having sex in the office. But it was all business.
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: That's why one of you all business.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I think for us it started was like
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: a mullet, the business of the party of the back.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: You can get like your coworker to go to lunch
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: with you. That's a good first step. That's what we
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: would do. Is I just like, you know, hey, you
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: want to go get a What did we used to do?
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: We used to go to that pizza place that uh ship,
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: that was it. We went to that Jewish bagel bagel Mania.
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: Jesus was that chicken place you guys just talking about
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: going to all the time, right, the ranch?
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: That's what it was. Yeah, we went there something yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, great.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: That other sandwich place Grinders remember that, Yeah, that had
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: a really good hogies. I liked that place a lot. Yeah.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: And then there was that other place, Chippendale, so that
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: that was nice too. We went to a lot of places,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: but bagel Mania had that Rami sandwich and that shit
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: fuck it was so good. And anything you ordered came
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: with a bagel.
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: No matter what you got, got a salad then everything
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: that was an appropriately named place.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: They were not fucking around on the bagel everything. So, Edgar,
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: if you can do that move, I think that's a
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: great like mid work week kind of thing of like,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: oh dude, there's you know, find a place that you
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: like in the area that you've heard about, Yeah, like
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: after work anything like that. Yeah, anytime you can parlay
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: it right out of work or mid work day and
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: just start there. I think that's a great way to
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: take that first step of like we're this isn't thing
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: that coworkers would do. We're just kicking it right. But like,
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: and it's also a discrete period of time. It's like, yeah,
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: it's going to be ninety minutes. We got it back
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: up the clock, you know. And so that's nice because
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: like you just get to dabble in it and then
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: you like let them make the next move. They're like, oh, yeah,
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: that was great, man, we go back. You know.
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: You can also just do it like uh, we've talked
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: about on an ice cream social in the past. Matt
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: has especially about you when you're asking someone out on
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: an early date.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: You can keep take kind of a similar tact here. Okay,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: find something that you want to do and invite him
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: because you're going to go anywhere.
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: I want to go play top golf. Yeah, let's see
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: if Bob wants to go play top golf too.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: Okay. I like that.
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think being more intentional because Edgar all and
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: ho Yeah already said that they do kind of hang
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: out outside of work. It's just not very often because
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: their schedules don't align. So it's like, I think, being
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: more intentional and asking a little more often, but if
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: you're still getting like, oh I'm busy and busy, I'm busy.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you got to just take that.
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: And that's really hard to accept. I mean, I've been
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: there too. Is rejection though it's not rejection. I the
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: way I view it, like I've had this happen before.
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: My mentality though, was like, oh my gosh, they are
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: just way cooler than me, Like I don't even deserve
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: to be around them, but we'd still hang out, like
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: in group settings whatever. But I feel like over time,
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: when there isn't that outreach anymore, like your schedules aren't
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: aligning or whatever. It's it's a little bit of like
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: a grief twinge, like oh, you're sad. You're like, I
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: don't know. I guess that's the best way I can
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: word it. It sounds like over dramatic, but it does because
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: you have these connections. It feels like rejection, right, I
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: don't even want to call it, I guess a little bit,
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: But it doesn't feel as direct as rejection. It's more sadness,
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: a little dusting, a little sprinkling of rejection. You're like
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: oh they maybe they I'm not worth it for them
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: to make that extra time. Yeah, but it's more like
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: just sad that it didn't work out for whatever reason,
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: whether they didn't want to just our schedules didn't work out,
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: like whatever.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: But I think it's also a bandwidth thing. So like, yes,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: for me, I have a very limited like I'm an extrovert,
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: I guess, but like I have a very limited bandwidth
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: of how much I can actually be out among people,
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: like even at scoop fests, like usually in the parking
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: lot of scoop Fest, I'll get with other hosts and
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: I'll be like, all right, so at some point, I'm
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: just going to disappear. I'm fine. I'm probably hiding in
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: the hallway, you know, like you'll just see just text
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: me if you need me, like I'm nearby. Yeah, if
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: there's a photo you want me to take or whatever.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Just I'm I'm probably hiding. And it's funny because even
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: as I told this story about Scott, like being at
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: the Bucket show, He's like, yeah, man, come over here,
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: we're gonna do We're doing like this thing my buddies
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: a river here, I'll introduce you. My wife's serimeter. I'm like, great,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: so I come over there, I say hi to them.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: I left within ten minutes and then just went home
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: like I didn't do it, but that was a lot
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: for me. I was like, yay, like I did things.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: I said hi to new people. Bye. I got the
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: hell out of there because I was like, I don't
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: know what I'm doing. I don't just stand here right,
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: I don't want to make some all talk. I feel uncomfortable,
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: so I ran. So, yeah, a person could still have
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: like a very limited bandwidth and like that have nothing
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: to do with them pulling away from you. It's just
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: like they're just not going out a lot, you know,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: And so like you got to take that as sort
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: of like all right, I may already be this person's
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: most regular hang that I see them infrequently, like every
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: once in a while, Like okay, that might be it.
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree. I think just kind of grappling with
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: those feelings can be tough. But I think, like what
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: Jacob said, asking them to a few more things and
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: feel it out, and if they really aren't responding, the
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: kind of back off a little and just work on
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: accepting the that I guess rejection.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I definitely like looking for opportunities, especially like, oh,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: we're all going to get together and watch the NBA
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Finals or like some something that has that like kind
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: of third party angle to it that like, oh, this
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: isn't about just hanging out. It's a collaborative thing. You're
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: welcome to come over.
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Like I think that's a great way to do.
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: There's a new pizza place. We're all going to check
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: it out.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: Go check out the splace, go into this brand new
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: Naked City pizza today. I don't care for Naked City.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: I don't care for you.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: There's several locations down there.
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: They mainly sell out of bars and everything.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they usually do that, Yeah, kind of sublet a bar,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: which I think it's a fine bar food like for
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: it style pizza.
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's got thicker and everything.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: It's very thick. Yeah, it's very bratty. Which I didn't
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: know that was Detroit. Okay, I believe there. I believe
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: their style is considered a Detroit style. All right, Well
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: it is distinct, so I would not. Will you do
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: a Chicago style pizza the deep Dish? Yeah yeah, okay, yeah,
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: like when I want that, when I want the pizza
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: soup and it's awesome. It just like, yeah, all pizzas
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: stacked together. You've got to order. We're going with the
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: average of your preference to go to.
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: I'm like, I just want it to be like as
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: long as it's good, I'm really I want that. Then
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: Christ Crispy those are really good?
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: Is that tops are?
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: It's a restaurant. There's two locations in Vegas. They import
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: their ingredients from Italy.
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really good.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Wire like Neapolitan chocolate, strawberry and vanilla.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: Correct, right, exactly. That's pretty cool man from Italy to anyway, Edgar,
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: good luck with that. Order your ship online and buy
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: it from Italy. Take a quick break. When we come back,
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: we're talking about therapy. Why not.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: Therapy? Today's episode is brought to you by which had
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: a record Scratchberry, Kevin Chamberlain, Jim Stanley, Adam Hathaway, Dan Martin,
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: lib Heyo, and Andrew Langmead. And if you'd like to
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: sponsor the show, you can become a therap producer by
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: signing up at patreon dot com.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Slash the Mental health Awareness month for a year.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: We got some y two k trivia.
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: I've been listening to throwback music all week the last
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: week and a half. It's like two and nineties, like
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: popular song.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: That's my standard playcast. My standard playlist is hits from
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: the early two thousand.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: I was just recently, actually this morning, listening to a
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: mix of summertime eighties hits.
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: Okay, such an eighties baby that.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: S Cruel Summer by Nanorama.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Cruise okay.
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the remake, that's what I was.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay. By the way, I found a kazoo a
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: minute ago. Oh yeah, good. It has an electronic pick up.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: He's gonna go right into this, right into the console
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: my distortion. Yes, dude, you're going to be cramming out
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: solos like you need to do that. I do an
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: album Bird.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: That's a great idea.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: That's what this podcast. Honestly, who else has that. It's
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: a new intro music all the free Bird.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: Anything.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: Every episode he just picks the longest fucking the extended
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: version of American Pot.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: I'm only gonna record free Bird. I'm not playing it
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: everywhere all of Hamilton.
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: I've never seen it before.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: You like it?
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: It was good. It was a little hard to understand.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an English English.
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I just think we're deaf because we're old. I'm like,
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: what did he say?
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: You got to go one of those horns?
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: Yeahs y two k okay Whitney, which low low carbohydrate
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: diet trend, originally created by a cardiologist, became popular in
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: the early two thousands for people trying to lose weight.
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: I'm going for two ats.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: Correct.
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: The Santa Clarita die Ja's face looks like the most
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: that I would not have died.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: But I didn't know a single one of those details.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: Jacob Yes, Which city hosted the summer Olympic Games and
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: the year two thousand celebrating the start of the new millennium?
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: Oh boy, Athens, Oh final guests gotta be it? No god, I.
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: Think maybe it was like an Olympic Centini that they
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: didn't I think it was.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: It was around the t thousand and four or something.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: Ship comes to me. I'll take options. I guess I
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: don't know this one either Athens.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: Okay, not that on Sydney. Probably Atlanta or Beijing.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, oh boy, I remember the Beijing thing
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: being big, but I don't know if it's two thousand,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: wasn't ninety?
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: Atlanta?
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was so I'm gonna take Atlanta off the list,
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: in Beijing off list that leave Sydney. I'll go with Sydney.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: Correct y, give me that one. Okay, back to Jim.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: Which brands Mesh Trucker hats became a celebrity trend in
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: the early two thousands.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: I often seen seen.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: On stars like Ashton Kutcher or Paris Hilton.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm gonna need options.
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: Can I steal it before you?
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: I wish I need answer? Okay you okay, just write
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: it down on your phone.
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: I will know because I could delete it.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: All uh all stall for time.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: Trust it's fine.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: Von Dutch, Nike, Gucci, Ed Hardy.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: Oh fuck and stuff between Ed Hardy and Von Dutch.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: I feel like a shit. I think I think you
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: had Hardy was T shirts is like into the douchebag
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: Ed Hardy shirts. Give me Van Dutch.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry it was Von Dutch. So close, that's all right,
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: so close. I'm just happy to be almost not even fair.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: Definitely end of round one.
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. Peter used to buy Christian and ed
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: Hardy ship and wear it to the casino just to
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: piss people are like his personality wouldn't even have to
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: change just sitting there. People be so pissed if he
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: want like out of table, They're just like, go all
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: in and thank you for he was worth the investment.
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: He went on eBay and bought it all so great trolling.
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: Think he had shiny gold shoes to go Oh.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: Good, Yeah, he knew the assignment ending therapy. Hi everyone,
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: thank you for this wonderful podcast. What a fabulous combo advice, empathy,
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: humor and nonsense. My question for you all is is
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: there a rule about how long to stay in therapy?
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: My wife has been going to the same therapist for
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: over a year, and in that time she's functionally improved.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: She's happier, engaged in hobbies, getting more done. Recently, her
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: therapist brought up graduating from therapy, a concept that's new
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: to me, and I've been weekly. I've been in weekly
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: therapy for over five years, and my therapist never.
• 33:48
  Speaker 5: Mentioned what this emotion is called. Yeah, and you know
• 33:59
  Speaker 5: that if you worked harder.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: My wife doesn't want to stop going to therapy, but
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: at the same time, from what she tells me, it
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: seems like these days they are just kind of checking
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: in and talking about life. Cats, video games. Her therapist
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: told her that she doesn't meet medical necessity because she's
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: not clinically impaired anymore, and that this is a good thing.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: But my wife feels sad to lose a regular place
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: to share her stories and feel supported by a kind
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: person who knows her so well. At her last session,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: her therapist brought up creating an aftercare plan, and this
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: made the impending loss feel super real. Another factor here
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: is that we use Medicaid to pay for therapy, and
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: her therapist has mentioned that insurance doesn't usually cover long
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: term therapy. So why have I been able to get
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: therapy for five years? Is this just different therapists philosophies?
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Should my wife try to convince her therapist to keep
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: seeing her Thanks for that thought, Sincerely, forever on the couch.
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: Let's tell your wife we will never leave her.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: That's right, the show has been going. We'll just replace
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: the other. Whatever your cope is, make patriotch.
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: Medicaid?
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: Well, no cop but I still send money, you know
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: I couldn't help it. I was like, well, well, insurance, Wow,
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: if I know one thing, it's insurance.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: This is something that can feel awkward sometimes for me
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: as a clinician with clients, especially taking insurance, but to
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: be honest, even with my clients who uh, maybe they're
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: out of pocket, because I have a few, if they
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: reach a point or when they reach a point that
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: I do feel like we're kind of just chatting. I
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: mean yeah, when we reach that point, I'll basically check
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: in with him and ask them. Usually I taper so
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: I'll be like hey, instead of just like a hard
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: all right, we see it every week, you know, no more, Yeah, well,
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: we'll kind of taper down, like you're doing well, let's
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: see how you do every other week for you know,
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: two months, and if that feels good, like let's try
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: every three or four weeks, like depending on how they feel.
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: I've even going to suggest yeah yeah yeah. And then
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: I have one client right now this is a little different.
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: She just checks in every like three months right now
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: because she was doing so good. And it's like when
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: they come in and they maybe don't have much to
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: talk about or it turns into just like shooting the shit,
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: it's like, yeah, we have to show improvement because insurance
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: does want to see that. I guess I don't know
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: about medicaid specifically, my opinion, the little bit I know
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: about Medicaid, they would appreciate that, Like they're asking for
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: medical necessity for that often, so you're asking for units
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: of therapy, and so if you ask for less, that
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: looks like improvement. So within like that ninety day period,
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: if you're not meeting every week then or twelve sessions
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: or whatever, they'll.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: Usually give you a basket. They'll say, this is you
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: have twelve sessions. You can use them at the speed
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: you want to. But it's also kind of a trap
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: because if you're using one a month, they're gonna go
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: how could this person be medically required to see a
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: therapist If their condition is so low acuity that they
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: can go three weeks without seeing you, right then you
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: usually need to go back to back and go week
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: to week to week. That is the course of treatment.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: But then medicat or any insurance eventually starts to say, hey,
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: look you can do it. Like where are we going
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: with this? You know, is this patient getting better? Is
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: this patient getting worse? If they're getting worse, do we
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: need to start talking about getting them into an iop
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: or something, or do they have a unique long term
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: chronic condition that you feel like they're always going to
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: need treatment for and is that something you're documenting. A
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: lot of times we're not, Like a lot of times
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: we're like, no, this person went through an episode depression
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: or it's kind of episodic and like sometimes they need
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: to jump back.
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: In something you can't predict if that's going to be
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: long term, you know, you're like or.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: Sometimes those symptoms go into remission and we're just sort
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: of like, well, I'm just kind of keeping it in
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: remission for right now. And you're telling the insurance like, hey,
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: all cards on the table, like symptoms are low, and
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: I consider this in remission and we're working on it,
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: and sometimes the insurance will go cary, you know, like
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: our current administration in this state is pretty pro just
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: doing mental health, so like we're not nickel and diming you.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: But it is writer very common among anybody who builds insurance,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: especially but especially federal insurance is like Medicaid and Medicare,
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: they're highly scrutinized and so like they are going to say, hey,
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: we should only be doing this when there's a medical necessity.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: And by the way, there's a strong argument and I
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: think many many therapists in our field believe this, and
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: I think there's a strong point to this where they'll
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: say that is what is not just correct, but is ethical,
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: that is the right. We are healthcare providers. You know,
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: if your patient's like, boy, you're my favorite regular doctor.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: I want to come in every week and just get
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: my temperature taken by you and just kind of check in,
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: you would say, hey, are you doing harm to this
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: patient by doing that? Like you're giving them space on
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: this thing. You're providing a healthcare service when they don't
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: need it, when they're well. Is that correct? And so
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: there is a philosophy and an ethical argument that says
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: we should be wrapping this up as soon as is realistic.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: But I know for a lot of us, like for me,
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: my model is completely non insurance. And part of that
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: is because I fundamentally philosophically disagree with that argument. I
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: do not want the insurance telling me or the patient
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: how often we're going to utilize this. But I also
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: establish at my practice I don't do weeklies, so I
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: don't tell them you're my Wednesdays at four. I tell
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: them that was you know, this was great. I'm happy
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: to work with you. Here's my recommendation for what you're
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: going through right now, Like here's how often I think
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: we should be seeing each other. But then I leave
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: it completely open and I'm like, here's the website, here's
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: the calendar. You make an appointment whenever this is on
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: your mind and you feel like I want to keep going,
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: and that way, like I will have people that kind
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: of go on to more of the carousel approach where
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: I was seeing them every week and then they self taper. Yeah,
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: but like we never had to talk about that. They
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: just don't need to come in again. And then I'm
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: like great, And then all of a sudden, I'll see
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: them a month later and I'll go, hey, it's been
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: about a month. Let's get caught up and how thing's
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: been going. They're like I was going really good for
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: three weeks and then things got weird. I'm like, okay,
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: great man, let's pop right into it, right And so
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: like that for me, ease something I'm allowed to do.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: And I can have people quote unquote for years, but
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: I'm not seeing them weekly for years, but like I've
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: they're under my care for years and we just never
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: invited insurance be part of that relationship. So like we
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: have that freedom. But when you do have insurance as
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: a big part of this relationship, right, this is a
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: normal and ethical thing for them to want.
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I always joke with my clients. I'm like, I'm
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: putting myself out out of a job.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're like, oh, out of a job.
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that approach because it's clinically based, not
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: managed care base, you know. And the thing is too,
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: it's like to kind of put this in like a
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: medical perspective. What you're doing is you're providing the right
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: dose at the right frequency.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: There it is.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: So it's not you know, because a lot of times,
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: and this used to be very big back in the day.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: It's less so now. But there was always a fail
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: first philosophy. Oh I know, yeah, before you can do
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: this intensity, you have to fail first at this one, right.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: And it's like, well, we don't do that in any
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: other healthcare model.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: Oh the patient died at chemo one, Yeah, we don't
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: do that.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the person's got a broken arm. Okay, well we
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: have to try to in a splende before we can
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: do a cast. Like that's absolutely ridiculous. You're providing the
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: right dose at the right frequency. Based off the condition
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: of the of the patient, and as the condition of
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: the patient changes, then you modify treatment, you know. And
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: this is where I did already talk about golf. So
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: the other thing I have to talk about is treatment planning.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: This is where having a treatment plan is incredibly useful.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: So you can you can track stuff like this and
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: you can not get lost in the weeds and just
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: being just kind of like, all right, what are we
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: doing today? What are we talking about? But we can
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: actually say, okay, here are our goals. These are the
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: things that we're trying to accomplish. We can track and
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: monitor this over time, and then it gives us something
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: to like shoot for, and we know that we can
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: decrease our sessions because symptoms are decreasing, functioning is improving,
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: and we're achieving our treatment plan objectives, right, you know,
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: and so you can you've got something that you can
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: go off of. Now I get it like from you know,
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: your wife's perspective, that like, yeah, you've been doing this
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: for so long. It's kind of your it's your your comfort,
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: part of your man It's yeah, yeah, it's what works
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: for you.
• 42:23
  Speaker 4: And it sounds like your wife made real You say
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: your wife made real progress in this in this therapy.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: So I mean, I imagine she has fond feelings for
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: the for.
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: The therapist and for the experience of going to therapy
• 42:37
  Speaker 4: or whatever frequency she's going right now. So I mean,
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: if you tell me, like, hey, this thing that you
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: enjoy doing that you do regularly, I would like you
• 42:47
  Speaker 4: to not do it regularly anymore.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: Sure, it is a weird thing to ask if somebody
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: with anything.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: It's a weird philosophy to be like, oh, this thing
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: works really well, let's stop doing.
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: Stop doing it.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we wouldn't do that with medication.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: Right right, But no, this you're that is exactly Yeah,
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: that's good. No, but you just nailed it, Like, we
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: would not do this with antidepressants. We would not be like, great,
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: so you've been on these antidepressants for five years and
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: the symptoms haven't come back, so let's stop them. Let's
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: but the insurance would make that argument with therapy, but
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: they would never dare to make that argument with anything else.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: But oh, it's still working, keep doing it, you know.
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: But like thinks so much of you guys, that's it.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: They want to like these people are capable of just
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: fixing these problems. That's right, like a genie. Yeah, it's
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: a good out into the world. Yeah, be free. So writer,
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: I mean as far as your side of the street
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: where you're looking at this and going ha, you know,
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: I too, amusing medicaid and here we are, I'm five
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: years deep with my therapist. We're not talking about me leaving.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: There can be multiple reasons for that. You you mentioned
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: one of them, which is like the philosophy of the provider.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: So and again it goes down to like, I definitely
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: know providers who are very strict about this, and they're like, look,
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: usually the insurance is going to be the first one
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: to bring this up. They're gonna be because every so
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: many uses of therapy, the therapist has to go back
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: to the insurance and say can I have another twelve
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: And every time they do this, the insurance usually will say,
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: you have some explaining to do, like let's get on
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: the same page, make sure that we know what's going on.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: And so the the therapist will usually only be willing
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: to go back to the well so many times because
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: every time they do they kind of get harassed a
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: little bit more. Yeah, it's a lot of work and
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: so in this case, writer, I would get the impression
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: that maybe your therapist isn't getting any business or any
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: any rough business from the insurance. They're not getting harassed
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: at all, and maybe the diagnosis they have for you
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: is something chronic and something that the insurance just has
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: a policy where they're like, yeah, that's fine, you know,
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: Like I don't know. I mean like some states have
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: different like policies where they're targeting certain issues. So like
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: I know that Nevada started being very aggressive with opioids,
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: you know, and like dealing with painkillers, because we're of
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: the only states that it's actually increasing, like opioid over
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: deaths or overdoses or increasing. So like for our medicaids
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: in our insurances, they're like being a lot more generous
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: with how many units they're approving for that, and they're
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: asking a lot less questions because I think they're looking
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: at that and they're like, dude, if you are a
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: painkiller addict who's just doing weekly outpatient therapy, cool, You're
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: the cheapest you'll ever be for that insurance. Like they
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: are psyched, yeah, like stay sober forever, Like just you
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: could you can marry this therapist and keep them. We'll
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: pay for the wedding, like it is cheaper than you
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: go into the er one time. You want to go
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: to Aruba and get married there. Fine, it's all inside.
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: So it could be something right where it's like in
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: your state for whatever reason, the code that's written down
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: by the therapist is just something that that you know,
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: insurance or just doesn't really question right now, they don't care.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: It could be something where your therapist just has a
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: little bit more of a looser philosophy. They don't mind
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: going to the well over and over and until somebody
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: stops them, there's going to keep doing it or there's
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: no pressure. And that's another thing too, Like if you're
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: showing up and the therapist feels like, hey, you're using therapy,
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: we're not just gliding, then they're not you know, gonna say, hey,
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: we should stop seeing each other. And like I've definitely
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: told patients like, hey, even though I see you pretty irregularly,
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: I do think we're at a stopping point and we
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: should go ahead and pause this work and resume it
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: in the future if you ever need to. I've had
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: that conversation not because of any external pressure from a
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: third party payer but because I've sized up the case
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: and thought, Okay, I think that I'm just a security
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: blanket at this point. I think it's in your best
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: clinical interest to do without this for a while and
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: let's see how that goes, you know, because I want
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: you to sort of learn how to swim on your
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: own here and then come back and let's come back
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: in a quarter and find out how that went for you.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I would definitely. I don't know from the
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: writer's perspective, what is it that you feel like, do
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: you feel like you can kind of start to take
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: a break, Do you feel like you can kind of
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: start to step back, or are you afraid of doing that? Like,
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: I'm not really sure from the writer what they want,
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: But one thing I will say is, don't compare your
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: treatment to your good point.
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's kind of apples and oranges. Everybody's going
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: to be a little bit different.
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: It is, yeah, worth asking therapists.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and a really great question. You know. It gives
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: us a chance to talk about something that's very important
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: to the whole process, and it is very in the weeds.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: It is very confusing, and here you have, you know,
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: a medicaid to medicaid. Example, husband and wife literally going
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: long term, and yeah, getting different recommendations at this point
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: and getting a different administrative experience that will happen. But
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: the fact that both of you found good therapists that
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: you've partnered with and have real success with. I love
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: reading that, you know, because a lot of times it's
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: not the story we hear. So that's huge, writer, and
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: I'm really glad for that. And if your wife doesn't
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: already listen to pod therapy, now's the time. Patreon dot
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: com slash therapy for as little as a buck, you
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: could just be part of the show, or you don't
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: pay anything. Turns out the show's free. Also, we mentioned
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: bingo cards. If you go into this episode description. If
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: you're listening on the main show, go into the episode description.
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: There is a link to a live bingo game that
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: you can play while listening to pod Therapy. It is
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: called Jim Neurotic Bingo. It was made by Manu and
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: Jim a long time ago, and so a lot of
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: the squares are probably things that were relevant in like
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty one.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Blackstone.
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: For one.
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's kind of the free space.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: It probably needs an update is is there a mustache talk?
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I think it predates the mustache. Oh,
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: I think it does. I think there's a lot of
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: like references to Pellow before the mustache on there. No
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: that he was just the boy back then, who wasn't
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: the strapping man that he is today? Building wasn't the house.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: It's just the child back They're just a wee lad. Anyway, writer,
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: thank you for this question on this and hopefully this
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: is something that you know, you continue to get the
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: help that you need and and you know your wife
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: kind of finds the next thing and that might be
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: a support group, It might just be something that is
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: a little less clinical but still gives her that ability
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: to kind of get engaged. Yeah, that's it, you know,
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: with with a community, and that honestly could be our discord.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: A lot of people just use our discord for that. Anyway,
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: we're in to a quick break and when we come back,
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: because of Whitney, we're talking about brain spotting and trauma.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: You're listening to pod therapy.
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: Today's episode has brought to you by Robert Brownie Junior,
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: Men's Kayla Lansbury, Kevin Chamberlain, Men Stanley Adam Hathaway, Dan Martin,
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: Live Hey Yo, and Andrew Langmead And if you'd like
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: to sponsor the show, you can become a therap producer
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: by signing up at patreon dot com slash therapy.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: Why to kizzl Okay Whitney?
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: What hairstyle popular among guys around nineteen ninety nine to
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: two thousand and one, especially boy band members oh involved
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: bleaching the tips of spiked hair and light blonde a
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: light blonde color.
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: There's a name for it.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: Hell yeah, there's a name for it. I'm offended.
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: I haven't.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: I'll bet you I could find a photo.
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: I totally when I was in middle school, in eighth grade,
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: I totally had my boyfriend at the time over a
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: week dyed his hair with my friend in our kitchen, Like, yeah,
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: what is that called? I mean, I have a guess what.
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: I'm worried now because it just sounds like frosted tips, but.
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: Go frosted tips frosted many weeks?
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: Okay, I was. I didn't know there was a name.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: My high school girlfriend who I later married, uh was?
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: I married everybody for pretty much because that was my
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: pattern for a while.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: I was married girlfriend slash landscape. You've never been married
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: because he hates you because he didn't ask. That's pretty
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: much it.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah. She was a cosmologist Cosmo Space for the Soviet Union.
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, so I had I had the frosted tips.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: I pulled it off. Yeah, yeah, frosted.
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: I can't see gym. I mean I kind of can't
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: because you look like sugar Race.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: Yes, thank you with the lip ring. Let's not forget
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: the lipper I had the I did not have tips
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: frosted with the lippering. Got the lilippering freshman year of college,
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: and frosted tips was probably sophomore year of high school. Okay,
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: everybody was doing it, Jacob, No, I never had frosted tips.
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: What was your hair?
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: Never made love to a snowman?
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: No?
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: No, never did?
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: Uh?
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: What Like high school? It was always like kind of shaggy.
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: My hair has always grown really fast, so it's always
• 51:37
  Speaker 4: like I've never really I've never really been super.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: I feel like you could rock up. I've never gotten
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: a perm.
• 51:43
  Speaker 4: I've curled my hair several times, but never like full
• 51:46
  Speaker 4: on perm cornrows.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: Definitely, that's yea. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I figured. Yeah, I
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: didn't happen regularly.
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: The app iPod, a portable music player that helped revolutionize
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: how people stored and listen to music, was true unveiled unveiled.
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: Unveiled in October of which year. Well, this is called
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: two K, so it's going to be two thousand the
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: first iPods.
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: We're guessing first iod Jesus.
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: Didn't the iPhone get revealed.
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: In I phone was like six?
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: So was it not later than that? Yeah? I think
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: you're right, it was right, iron I don't know.
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: Give me options ninety nine two thousand, two thousand and
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: one or two thousand and two.
• 52:42
  Speaker 4: To use a fifty to fifty yeah, and eliminate two
• 52:44
  Speaker 4: of those possible choices.
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'm gonna eliminate the right one and I'll give
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: you two wrong choices.
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: That's fine, whatever I can get. Yeah, nine to uh
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: to two I.
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: Will sorry, that is really it is?
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it is. I mean the cross the tips.
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she did you want to hunt? Yes, you said
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: you'd never forget. Oh n Prince, Yes, there you go.
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: That is.
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: A day that shall live in Infama two thousand and one,
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: two thousand, Space Odyssey. Most interesting thing that happened?
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: Okay, Jim, which iconic mobile phone introduced in the year
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: two thousand, became ship famous for its durable a durability
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: in the game Snake to.
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: Oh okay, if you don't, you need to get the
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: fuck out of that.
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: I know the brand, but I wonder if that counts.
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: What's the brand I'm going with the Nokia? Is that
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: enough to win it.
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: Behind?
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: It's gonna be like the Nokia T one thousand or something. Ship,
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: All right, give me options.
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: Then if is not enough, the Nokia thirty three ten
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: O the Nokia thirty three. Damn it's then Nokia thirty twelve, asshole.
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: The Nokia thirty three thirty By the way, are not
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: the options that Emma gave the options.
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: We're going to go?
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: What were the other.
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: The other three on was Emma put in? Here?
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: Were the Motorola Razor V three, the BlackBerry eight fifty
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: or the Sony Ericson T sixty eight.
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you this right now, Joe, I had one
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: of these phones. Oh yeah, I did too. I had
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: no idea what it's called.
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: I I didn't even remember it was a but I
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: know I had.
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: I knew it was a Nokia indestructible. It was so good,
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: all right, So they're all Nokia thirty three something something.
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: I'll take the first one.
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: Thirty three ten.
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: Ye, that's not it correct, Yeah, because he had to
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: make up the rest. So I think we're going to
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: start with the only one that was read correct. You
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: don't have to know the answer each other.
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just read him.
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: You'll get it right, all right. Jim's in the lad
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: Last question brain spotting and trauma from Kathy.
• 55:19
  Speaker 4: Oh good, I thought you said train spotting. We're going
• 55:21
  Speaker 4: to discuss the film train Spotting relevant.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for the helpful information about losing
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: a client to suicide. Very helpful, and I listened to
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: my letter this morning. I wonder if I should tighten
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: up on my professional boundaries. Lo o, l my life, Okay,
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: real question. I work in an impatient substance abuse treatment facility.
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: Traumatic experiences are prevalent when it comes to helping people
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: with substance abuse. Although I believe in a holistic approach
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: where I can use multiple modalities, I'm not an expert
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: by any means. Can Whitney share more about brains spotting
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: and how that is used to help clients with PTSD?
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: Thank you kindly, fuck me sideways and twice backwards A
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: k A Kathy, It was ak a mom. I don't know.
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: To check that out.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: There's a number, Kathy.
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. Her letter implies that I am a expert.
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: You're going to have Well, I've heard a lot about
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: brain spotting, and I think I've heard about the technique.
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: So what is this? What is brain spotting?
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: So brain spotting was created or I guess developed by
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: David Grand and he got it from E. M.
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: D R. So it started with you long ago. Yes, yeah, them.
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: DR, the my movement, yeah, the I movement desensitization and reprocessing. Okay,
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: there's new listeners or me okay, okay. But in EMDR,
• 57:02
  Speaker 3: it's a lot of bilateral movement with your eyes and
• 57:06
  Speaker 3: so you're tracking. Usually it's a light beam or a
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: laser I think some people use, and basically your brain.
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: It's your eyes are absorbing what it's seeing and it's
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: it's being interpreted by your brain. So it's hitting on
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: these parts of your brain that are have been through trauma,
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: like the mid part of your brain where we are
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: trying to protect ourselves when we go through trauma. So
• 57:33
  Speaker 3: it kind of lives in there and we don't always remember.
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: So why some people talk about like not remembering what
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: they've been through, but we still have the effects of it,
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: Like we still might have panic attacks or our bodies
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: responding to certain things and we don't know why. So
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: when we talk about PTSD, this comes into play there.
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: So brain spotting. This guy, David Grand he was working
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: through EMDR with his clients and he realized that as
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: their eyes were tracking back and forth, they would sometimes like,
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: oh gosh, what sword it would like wobble or freeze okay,
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: And so he was like, what's up with that? So
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: he would sit with it with his clients, and that's
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: where kind of brain spotting was born, because it's kind
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: of like picking a spot on your brain when your
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: eyes are moving and sitting with that.
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: So your eyes kind of glitching out for a second
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: or movement and he's like, oh, like.
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: Your brain, I guess that your eyes are you there? Yees? Okay,
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: So your clinician is noticing, like how you're responding to
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: this moment, so instead of doing the bilateral stimulation, they
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: will just have one point. And so what I've read
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: about it is that a therapist can use either a
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: like spot on your screen or even their fingers just
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: to point to different areas. And actually I attended an
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: EMDR conference like years and years ago when it was
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: kind of becoming a new thing, and they did this
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: in the conference because it was before twenty twenty, so
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: we had in person conferences. Jim's goal, that's one of
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: your goals on your list, but showing up to that,
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: they kind of asked us, amazing if.
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: He didn't get any of that list done, I know
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: she was not going to. I've almost finished the Quentin
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: Tarantino movies.
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: I gotta, I gotta.
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I would have bet that he would finish like
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: three or four movies.
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: Or I'll take the Yonder, I got time, I got bloody.
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: The only reason he's going to finish it is if
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: we remind him on here. Yeah, I do forget.
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: I remember on the very last day, he's going to
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: be watching pulp fiction while writing a Dolphin Dolphin.
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: I'll get them.
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: So yeah. Basically, brain spotting the clinicians working through identifying
• 59:50
  Speaker 3: where you kind of stop and pause because that's telling
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: them information. So once you find that spot, it's like
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: a target spot. Then they're trying to process okay and
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: ask you like what did you notice? What did you feel?
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: What my understanding is that you don't even have to
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: relive the trauma. They're not asking you to like dig
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: up this memory and share it like some other therapies
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: or modalities. It's more like just getting in touch with
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: what your brain is physically dealing with, which is why
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: I think it's kind of cool. It's like very different.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: What's the experience? Not necessarily what's the trigger? Right?
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: How can we just stabilize our central nervous systems a
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 3: little bit? Right?
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: You focus a lot more on like grounding and like
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: processing this, which is useful in the now.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, some of the benefits that I read about too,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: or that it's kind of it's quicker, It can be
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: quicker than traditional therapies. And also it doesn't have to
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 3: involve a lot of talk therapy. So if there's some
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: clients who just don't want to they have a hard
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: time sharing, like even with the therapist, Yeah, then they
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: can kind of go into therapy and have this experience
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: and still be healing and improving without having to talk
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: through all of their their issues.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 4: The value to that and what percentage of this therapy
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 4: would you say? And including zero percent. What percentage of
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 4: this therapy would you say, ishui?
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: I guess I haven't. Yeah, I looked into like actual
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: the like hardcore studies, just to be really honest. But
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: you're interested in I am very interested in it because
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: I like.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: That it is a little more of it's certainly interesting.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: What's the word I'm trying to say, like hands ongibangible?
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, this is let's comment on the science
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: for a second, because like there, I do think that
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: there's a lot here to figure out, because there's definitely
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: as there are with all things. Even CBT has these
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: people that overhype it, right, and they're swearing allegiance to
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: it and the question it's a form of religion to them,
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: and I don't like that. And I definitely have seen
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: a little bit more of the woo woo people, you know,
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: gravitating into the MDR camp and now the brain Spotting camp.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: It's new, it's sexy, it's exciting, it's got an air
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: of mystery to it. There's this sort of like invisibility
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: thing that's happening but maybe not happening, and it's all
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: happening in the brain, and like, none of this can
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: be like validated by the fMRI machine, but like sure
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: hypothetically or describing different parts of the brain and why
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: not that that makes some sense and the eye movement
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: and it's fine, but like when you look into the
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: science of it, that the research that I've seen basically says, look,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: what works about e M d R is not new,
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: and what's new about em DR. We've not seen objectively
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: that that would work, but there is value to it.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: And and like that statement I think can be scientifically true.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: And yet I would still completely endorse using brain spotting
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: or em DR. And one reason why, especially at a
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: rehab level, what the writers talking about here fucked me
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: sideways and twice up and down or something that I
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: think she wants. I think she's just dying to get.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: Not the name. Oh you mean like the impatients. Yeah,
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: I think that the impatient. I think she's clearly yes,
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: she's clearly trying to question train ran here. But no
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: like a spotting Oh yeah, we got to write that down.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: But no, like on this point about in impatient, I
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: like it because a lot of times, what I'll do
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: an impatient if I can, if I know I'm gonna
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: have them for a while I like doing trauma timelines
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: and I like having some group work that is starting
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: to get into this, but it can be a heavy
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: lift and sometimes like we're not gonna get I mean,
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: you're gonna get more attention and impatient than you will
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: in most places. So if you're decompensating or regressing with that,
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: I'm kind of glad we're doing it here, and I
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: think there's value to that. But what I like about
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: brain spotting and DMDR is that it gives somebody something
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: physical that they're doing in this process. And it's not
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: especially brainspotting. It's not necessarily trying to drill down and
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: get you to reprocess the memory itself. It's very comfortable
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: with the effect of the memory and you just grappling
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: with that in a conscious.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: Way, kind of like desensitizing. It's how I see it
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: it is.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: I like that, and I think it gives you a
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: way to sort of quote unquote metabolize this energy, but
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: also in this new tangible physical way, which I definitely
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: think there's a lot of value to do. I think
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know that I would completely find myself believing
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: wholesale the theory that your eye is having a jitter,
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: and this implies something I don't know, maybe, I mean
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: maybe subconsciously. If I'm sitting here telling you a story
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: about my childhood and my dad and like some bad
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: stories I've got, at some point, you probably could pick
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: up a physical tremor.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 3: Right, there's gonna be like your blink RT. There's gonna
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: be all kinds of something gay.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, we know galvonic responses have been there since
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: fucking Rogers, you know, so like this is old news.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: And if the eyeball twitches and gives away something as
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: you're like carefully moving across a visual plane, I wouldn't
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: be surprised by that. And if that's one more way
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: to indicate something, and you've got patient buy in and
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: they're like that's fine, Like did my I jitter? Okay,
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: I'll go deeper on that, and they're just like buying
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: in on this and like, yes, let me just participate. Great,
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: And I could totally see that being valuable in inpatient setting.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 3: I will tell you one of the personal negatives that
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 3: I feel like I've heard from other clinicians just kind
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: of out in the community is that they will make
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 3: like a side comment when we're talking about em DR
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 3: saying some version of like, well, it's great too, because
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 3: like your client's doing a lot of the work. Oh
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: that and you're not. Because that's true. I'm like, yeah, yeah,
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 3: you should still be present. I don't care if you're
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 3: not actively talking, like that's their time.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: I had a therapist say that to me, and I
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: just remember, it's like my respectometer just that's yes, I
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: love em DR. And I was waiting for him to
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: explain to me, like lives changed and stuff, and he's like,
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: it's so easy. I mean, I just give them like
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: the paddles and they just talk and I'm basically just
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: monitoring them.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 3: And I'm like, what I've heard that before, dumb?
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: Really you think that's going to come in the funk on?
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: I know, I don't, like I've heard in the hands
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: of a good therapist, though, even a shitty therapy is effective,
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: which is why we need to train great therapists and
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: do theory.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 3: Second, yea, I will say I last week met with
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 3: a new therapist for myself for the first time, and
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 3: they mentioned in their bio and in our consultation that
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 3: they mainly do talk therapy, but they are becoming trained
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 3: in brain spotting. So that's I don't know if I
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 3: mentioned that last week, but that's why I've been on
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 3: my radar a little bit more because I was already
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 3: very intrigued by it. I think exactly how you just
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 3: described it, Jim, is what intrigues me about. I'm like,
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 3: I'm not totally sold. It's like horoscopes.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: It's I don't need it. I don't need it to
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: be the hard core.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 3: I'm just saying Peter's a virgo.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: His hats and their golden shoes. Yeah, I don't need
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: it to be the hard chorus of science. I don't
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: even need it to have a really great, plausible explanation.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: I'm fine with a pretty thin justification of if you
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: have trauma, you're going to somehow exhibit bit that and
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: we're looking for any tells we can to dig a
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: little deeper. Will you play along with this?
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: Like, yeah, that's great, right.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: So, yeah, she brought that up to me, you know,
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 3: and without I'm obviously not going to share any of
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 3: my traumas on here, but I would definitely love to
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 3: check in. But no, I would love to. I mean,
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 3: if we eventually get into that, I would definitely love
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 3: to share just that experience for me personally.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 3: Oh, because when I did that training on EMDR, they
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 3: did a little mini like it seemed more like brain
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 3: spotting to me because they pointed all over. It wasn't
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 3: just this you know, bilateral consistent eye movement thing and
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 3: they were watching or not watching, sorry, It was actually
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 3: more like they were asking the client like where do
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 3: you feel like as I point what, what do you
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 3: feel the most in your body? And so then that's
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 3: where they'd be like, oh my gosh, like there when
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 3: I looked like up to the right, that's where like
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 3: when all my stuff starts coming to the surface. So
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 3: they would hone in on that. So it was a
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 3: little bit like that, which was kind of interesting.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: I've heard some comments on this bundle of actions, so
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: like you're brain spotting your MDR or somatic therapy the
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: where do you feel the anxiety? Where do you feel
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: the trauma? And I think what I've found the most
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: arguable as a good idea about these and the most
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: attractive to me is when they talk about how right,
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: wrong or indifferent. These approaches externalize some of the therapy
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: process so that it isn't all just happening in this
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: invisible plane inside of you that's immeasurable. But you're being
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: asked to check in on your body. Yeah, you're being
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: asked to think you're being asked to move and you yeah, yeah.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: And I think that also kind of it helps because
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: if trauma is like this very like bright light that
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: you're staring right into, these techniques kind of allow that
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: light to bounce off the wall a little and you're
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: not staring right into it. Yeah, because I'm talking about
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: this thing that's really difficult, that is, by definition of
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: trauma indescribable. It's very hard for me to talk about
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: and stare right into. But you're giving me something else
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: to think about. While I'm doing this, I'm moving my
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: eyes at your request and waiting for you to tell
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: me that something's happened. I'm occasionally scanning my body and asking, oh,
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: what did my left knee just feel, you know? And
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: like all of that I think allows us to just
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: kind of blunt the force of like engaging with your
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: trauma head on, which I think for a lot of
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: people is a great way to approach it.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 3: I do want to share as well. I've had other
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 3: clinicians try this with clients who are somewhat high functioning
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 3: but on the spectrum and that does not go well.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so eye contact or eye tracing stuff is just
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 3: not their jam usually, So just throwing that out there,
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 3: you're not a failure. If you think, oh my gosh,
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 3: that would never work for me, that's okay. There's just
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 3: different therapies out there for you. And if you're a clinician,
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 3: please don't try and force that with a client that
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 3: may not do well with eye contact or things like that.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, good thoughts on that. Any fear nick about like
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: trauma work at an impatient setting, Yes, I mean, I
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: don't know.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: In some cases there's there's pros and cons. The prose
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: of addressing trauma in a residential setting is that you
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: do the session and they're still within your care afterwards. Right,
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: So if throughout the day you notice that they start
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: to decompensate or something like that, you're right there. You
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: can address it, you can bring it back in. We
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: can you know, they're still in a safe environment as
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: opposed to on an outpatient level, like we just tear
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: open this wound, especially if we're talking about drug and
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: alcohol treatment, you tear open this wound and then you're like,
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: all right, see you next week.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: Stay. Yeah.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like it's that's going to be really tough.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: So it nice in that sense. Now, the downside, the
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: thing that you need to look out for is how
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: much time are you going to have with them and
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: will you be able to maintain this relationship with this
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: client after they have transitioned out into a lower level
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: of care. If not, then that's going to be dangerous. Like,
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: there are some places that I've worked well that you've
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: worked as well, where we have these folks for residential
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: treatments because they came from out of state and when
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: they leave, they're going back to Georgia, Kentucky, or wherever
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: they came from. And so you're a little more hesitant
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: about like how deep are we wanting to tear open
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: these wounds, knowing that we're just going to have to
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: put them on a plane in two weeks and send
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: them across country to somebody else who may or may
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: not know what we've gotten into with them. Yeah, so
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: you kind of have to weigh those options.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you do. And it's tough because you know,
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: the bullets have to be pulled out I mean that
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: work does have to happen. It's very case by case
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: because sometimes you look at it and go, Okay, I
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: think if we start to open this, we will not
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: close this wound in the time that we have together.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: Let's focus on coping, you know, that's probably the best
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: using relapse prevention. But and then hopefully a follow up,
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: you know, and stepping down levels of care. But Kathy,
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: great question. This is fun to have other therapists right
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: in and and kind of give us a chance to
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: nerd out about theory and approach and levels of care.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: And we really appreciate that. I still am flabbergasted that
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: other professionals listen to this show. I just honestly don't
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: think anybody should be listening to the show. Kathy.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: Right back in, when you want more information on ASAM
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: Criteria fourth.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: Edition, Y's yeah, you actually should do a deep on
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: that because you did the old a Sam. Yeah, I
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: don't think you've done an updated one.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: No. Yeah, And it's a little complicated.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: Do we all have to be using it like? Yes,
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: I mean I do. I just want to make sure everybody. Yeah,
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: that's the rules of life people, life coaches do what
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: we won't. That's right, We're gonna take a quick break
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: and when we come back, we were wrapping up the show.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: You're listening to Pod Therapy.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: Today's episode is brought to you by Robert Brownie Junior Men's,
• 1:13:12
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  Speaker 1: There we go. I think one year we should just
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  Speaker 1: start saying random ass websites as the official one, and
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: then just listeners have to buy that website as fast
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: as possible and pointed to Patroon, which actually has happened
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: in our Michael Jordan, that happened with our pod therapy
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: bait shop. Like we we jokingly called it the pod
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: Therapy bait shop and never took the time to buy
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: that ur L. So the listeners did and then pointed
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: it towards the store. Yeah, then we take out pod
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: therapy dot com, which was pointed to a picture of
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: Jacob for about a year and a half. Yeah, that
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: was great. It now points to the website. I'm still
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: mad about that. Yeah, so yeah, but feel free buy
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: more websites, more trivia. Are we good to wrap? All right? Good?
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: I'll just take the double Yeah. I think its just
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: the tips.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: That's Whitney's nickname, Frost Tips tips kind of.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: She's got the blonde going twos across the board. There
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: it is. As we wrap up the show, we want
• 1:14:35
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• 1:14:37
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• 1:14:43
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• 1:14:46
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• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: new friends that have joined us at patreon dot com
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: slash Therapy. Who's new to the therap party? Nick?
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: We got two new therap pods, Joshua Visso, hey, I
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: think I'm that. I think those double l's are a yo,
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: so Joshua, John Henry Strong, I'll take another, Okay, I'll
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: take another chance. I don't know John Henry Strong. Okay,
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: I'll bet he's a guy you don't want to funk with.
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: I don't think Yeah, like if people, if we still
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: built railroads. He's definitely the guy that built.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: When John Henry joined the Discord, his first like when
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: you join it, just joins is whatever your natural Discord
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: name is, and said John Henry. What John Henry just
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: a railroad builder. Yeah. I think that's why I made
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: the cat, I think. And then he changed his name
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: immediately in the Discord to some reference to railroads and
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: like something like that, and I was like, oh, fuck yeah,
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: and like, yeah, so guy's just a fan of railroads,
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: might be maybe a badass. I think he's a hugger.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: Maybe he's a model railroader. I think I had a
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: model railroad too.
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 3: It was model railroader.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean you were thinking sex, right, that's like, yeah,
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: the model John Henry and Kathy together, it's all going
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: to work out. Thank you new friends who have joined us.
• 1:16:23
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• 1:16:27
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• 1:16:30
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• 1:16:38
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  Speaker 2: And if you'd like to hear this episode uncut and unedited,
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• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: Well that's all the time we got for this week's session.
• 1:17:32
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  Speaker 2: Do you want to submit a question of the show?
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:18:01
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• 1:18:05
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  Speaker 1: I'm Nick Tangement, I'm Jim.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: Thanks, and we'll see if your appointment next week.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: Frosted tips, Yeah, Whitney, frosted tips. Is that what I
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: said the episode title was? Or do we pick something else?
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: I don't guess.
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: That's the best centipede that was, Bye Bye.