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Fighting the Tyrants | UK Column Interviews · UK Column Radio

0:08
Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Charles Mallett with a UK column interview. And
0:11
Speaker 1: today I have with me Sam Bailey, but not for
0:14
Speaker 1: the first time. So it's a very warm welcome back
0:17
Speaker 1: to UK column, Sam.
0:19
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Charles, for letting me come on
0:22
Speaker 2: your channel and speak with you.
0:26
Speaker 3: Well, not at all.
0:27
Speaker 1: And it's an absolute delight to see you again, although
0:30
Speaker 1: these are not the circumstances that either of us would
0:33
Speaker 1: have chosen and absolutely certainly not the ones that you
0:38
Speaker 1: had hoped would unfold. Just talk us through what has happened,
0:44
Speaker 1: because to condense it into the smallest of nutshells, I
0:47
Speaker 1: think I'd be right in saying that you've made, frankly,
0:50
Speaker 1: the biggest decision of all over the past six years
0:54
Speaker 1: in deciding to appeal for help, which is a massive
1:01
Speaker 1: step for you personally. Just tell the audience a bit
1:04
Speaker 1: about why that is.
1:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I am asking for help to pay the
1:13
Speaker 2: medical authorities, the New Zealand Medical Council, 250,000 New Zealand dollars.
1:19
Speaker 2: They have asked this, well, they have charged me with fines.
1:23
Speaker 2: And I have been, like you said, fighting this for
1:26
Speaker 2: six years. It's come to a head because they have
1:30
Speaker 2: basically summoned me to a high court for bankruptcy. proceedings,
1:35
Speaker 2: so to liquidate my assets on the 5th of November,
1:38
Speaker 2: unless I pay them this money beforehand. And I can
1:42
Speaker 2: tell you about the background of why this has happened
1:44
Speaker 2: and all of that.
1:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, that is exactly what I'm going to ask
1:50
Speaker 1: you to do. And I know for those listening, that
1:52
Speaker 1: might sound dry, but the first sort of straight up,
1:56
Speaker 1: the idea that that's the amount of money that you're
1:59
Speaker 1: being hounded for, that this has happened at all, I
2:02
Speaker 1: think will catch a number of people by Surprise. Now,
2:05
Speaker 1: the previous interview that we recorded together, I entitled Facing
2:09
Speaker 1: the Tyrants. And I think it's just worth harking back
2:12
Speaker 1: to that briefly, because first of all, I think that's
2:13
Speaker 1: exactly what you have been doing, but also what you
2:17
Speaker 1: are doing. And I think over the course of this discussion,
2:20
Speaker 1: this interview, it will become clear as to how asking
2:25
Speaker 1: for help to do what it is you want to
2:27
Speaker 1: do and indeed need to do will all make sense.
2:32
Speaker 1: The other thing I think is really worth pointing out
2:34
Speaker 1: is just to remember that after that interview, there was
2:38
Speaker 1: from the UK column audience a massive outpouring of emotion, support, positivity,
2:44
Speaker 1: and I will hope that all of that and more
2:48
Speaker 1: can be harnessed again. But so what we'll do, Sam,
2:51
Speaker 1: is we'll go back in time and we'll just look at,
2:55
Speaker 1: first of all, let's just look at your career as
2:58
Speaker 1: it was even before 2020 started. Just give us a
3:02
Speaker 1: very brief overview of what it is you were doing.
3:06
Speaker 1: And indeed, I think the critical part is what part
3:11
Speaker 1: in the public's eye you played in their life.
3:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, and just, I should also say to begin with,
3:18
Speaker 2: my voice, I have a cold, so excuse me for sounding,
3:22
Speaker 2: I said to Charles before that I sound a little
3:24
Speaker 2: bit like an orc, so.
3:26
Speaker 4: Excuse me for that.
3:28
Speaker 2: Anyway, so going back in time, I worked as a
3:30
Speaker 2: medical doctor for 15 years and my specialty was in
3:35
Speaker 2: clinical trials work, actually, and drug trials, looking after patients
3:39
Speaker 2: later on in the phases of the drug development. So
3:44
Speaker 2: when testing them on people who have the disease and things.
3:47
Speaker 2: And I also worked as a family doctor. And during
3:50
Speaker 2: that time, I started my own online business, online doctor business.
3:55
Speaker 2: And I got headhunted to be a presenter for a
3:58
Speaker 2: TV show, a major network in New Zealand. And so
4:02
Speaker 2: I fronted that and was very popular. So amongst my work,
4:08
Speaker 2: as a doctor and also in the sort of TV world.
4:13
Speaker 2: And that was prior to 2020. That was really what
4:18
Speaker 2: I was doing.
4:18
Speaker 3: Okay.
4:20
Speaker 1: And yet now, according to the Medical Council of New Zealand,
4:24
Speaker 1: you present a serious risk of harm to the public.
4:29
Speaker 3: How on earth has that come about?
4:30
Speaker 4: Yeah, so.
4:33
Speaker 2: I had never actually had a patient complaint in my
4:36
Speaker 2: entire career. And not that I'm perfect, but I worked
4:39
Speaker 2: very hard and I was very well respected by my colleagues.
4:44
Speaker 2: But in, so in leading into 2020, I had started
4:49
Speaker 2: a good friend of mine had asked, said to me
4:52
Speaker 2: that I should start my own vlog on YouTube.
4:55
Speaker 4: So make my own videos.
4:57
Speaker 2: About health topics, and I'd never thought of doing something
5:03
Speaker 2: like that. And she said, you'd be good at it
5:04
Speaker 2: because you can do the TV presenting side. And so
5:06
Speaker 2: I thought, okay, I'll start doing this, and it was
5:10
Speaker 2: for my online business. Anyhow, COVID happened, and I, like everyone,
5:17
Speaker 2: was unsure of what was going on, and lots of
5:19
Speaker 2: people were asking me on my, at that time, very
5:22
Speaker 2: small YouTube channel, could you talk about it? And I
5:26
Speaker 2: was getting so many questions that I ended up asking
5:28
Speaker 2: my husband, Mark, for help with this because it was
5:32
Speaker 2: difficult to get a sense of what was going on
5:34
Speaker 2: and what the difference was between the reality versus.
5:39
Speaker 4: What we were seeing in the media.
5:41
Speaker 2: And so we started researching it and we quickly came
5:47
Speaker 2: into the realisation that there were huge problems. So I
5:51
Speaker 2: started making videos on lockdowns, on face masks, vaccines if
5:56
Speaker 2: and when.
5:56
Speaker 4: They were going to happen.
5:57
Speaker 2: And during this time, I'm being a TV presenter as
6:02
Speaker 2: well and working as a medical doctor. And it came
6:08
Speaker 2: to a point in September of 2020 where I made
6:11
Speaker 2: a video stating that I wasn't going to have the
6:15
Speaker 2: coronavirus vaccine if and when it came about. I didn't
6:18
Speaker 2: think it was actually going to happen because I knew
6:20
Speaker 2: from drug trials how long that process takes. Normally it's years,
6:25
Speaker 2: and I couldn't see how they could get it over
6:28
Speaker 2: the line this quickly. I thought the pandemic would finish
6:32
Speaker 2: by the time they had the vaccines because, like I say,
6:35
Speaker 2: it had never been that fast before. And I also
6:39
Speaker 2: talked about PCR tests, and that was a big area
6:41
Speaker 2: of interest and another point I used to make a
6:45
Speaker 2: lot of videos on. And this particular video, I got
6:51
Speaker 2: a phone call from the lawyer of the TV station
6:53
Speaker 2: show that I was working with and she said to
6:56
Speaker 2: me to take the video down and I said that
6:58
Speaker 2: I wouldn't and then she said well could you take
7:01
Speaker 2: out the bid on vaccines and I knew straight away
7:05
Speaker 2: what that meant and I said no so I was
7:08
Speaker 2: fired at the same time I was asked to stop
7:11
Speaker 2: coming into my job that I'd had for about 12
7:13
Speaker 2: years in clinical trials I had the medical council had
7:20
Speaker 2: started an investigation because they'd had all these complaints from people.
7:25
Speaker 2: None of them were my patients. They were mostly from
7:27
Speaker 2: people overseas, people that I had never met, making complaints
7:33
Speaker 2: and trying to stop me publishing the videos. So in
7:39
Speaker 2: this process, the medical council continued and basically had the
7:44
Speaker 2: end point in line from the beginning. But what they
7:47
Speaker 2: did in September was they asked me to sign a
7:49
Speaker 2: gag order or a voluntary undertaking, which essentially said I
7:53
Speaker 2: couldn't make videos about COVID-19?
7:56
Speaker 1: I mean, I think people, well, either whether they knew
8:00
Speaker 1: already or have heard that for the first time, I
8:03
Speaker 1: think would be astonished. I mean, the way, I think,
8:04
Speaker 1: in an objective sense, it's a very smooth transition from
8:09
Speaker 1: providing a public service to providing a public service. The
8:13
Speaker 1: only difference is that in the eyes of the state
8:15
Speaker 1: and the medical council, one is legitimate and one is
8:19
Speaker 1: not legitimate. Just go into a little bit of detail.
8:22
Speaker 3: On what grounds.
8:24
Speaker 1: did they at least say that they had disagreement with
8:29
Speaker 1: what it was that you were doing?
8:32
Speaker 2: They said that they had grounds because that I was
8:35
Speaker 2: spreading misinformation. So it was contrary to the New Zealand
8:39
Speaker 2: government's advice. And at that time, the vaccines hadn't come about.
8:45
Speaker 2: So it was, they were talking about them, but they
8:48
Speaker 2: weren't out yet. And there was obviously a huge drive, um,
8:54
Speaker 2: They didn't want anyone speaking against it at all, especially
8:58
Speaker 2: doctors because they were the key points. So at this
9:02
Speaker 2: point I had, so as a doctor you have an
9:06
Speaker 2: indemnity insurer. You have to in order to be able
9:09
Speaker 2: to practice. And they quickly dropped me because I wouldn't
9:14
Speaker 2: sign the voluntary audit and I wasn't going to go
9:18
Speaker 2: along with what the medical council wanted me to do.
9:21
Speaker 4: So essentially... stop publishing.
9:25
Speaker 2: They were terrified of what I was saying and my
9:27
Speaker 2: popularity with the public.
9:30
Speaker 3: Wow.
9:32
Speaker 1: So just describe the relationship between the indemnity insurer and you,
9:37
Speaker 1: the individual, but also do they connect at all with
9:40
Speaker 1: the medical council? Were they, I mean, this might be hypothetical,
9:44
Speaker 1: but were they subject to interference or influence?
9:49
Speaker 2: So yes, the The issue with indemnity insurers in New Zealand,
9:53
Speaker 2: I can't really comment about what happens in the UK
9:55
Speaker 2: because it might be different. I only know what happens
9:58
Speaker 2: in New Zealand. But here with the indemnity insurers, it's
10:03
Speaker 2: quite a difficult relationship because they are essentially funded by,
10:08
Speaker 2: the lawyers are funded by the insurers. So they act,
10:14
Speaker 2: that's their primary client, as it were. And you are
10:17
Speaker 2: kind of this, person that can cause them problems with expenses.
10:22
Speaker 2: And so they very much want to minimise that, minimise
10:26
Speaker 2: what they end up paying for. And I didn't realise too, Charles,
10:31
Speaker 2: in New Zealand, they have this registrar position on the
10:37
Speaker 2: Medical Council who is a lawyer. And the previous registrar
10:43
Speaker 2: simultaneously held a role with both the Law Society and
10:47
Speaker 2: the Medical Council of New Zealand. And this is a
10:49
Speaker 2: huge conflict of interest because of the whole indemnity world,
10:54
Speaker 2: because lawyers do make a lot of money out of this.
10:58
Speaker 2: And so it's in their interest to all kind of
11:01
Speaker 2: work together. So from the very beginning, it was difficult
11:06
Speaker 2: for me because I said, well, I'm happy to go
11:10
Speaker 2: along with this investigation. Firstly, can you define to me
11:13
Speaker 2: what is misinformation? What is it that I have said
11:16
Speaker 2: that misinformation and they.
11:18
Speaker 4: Wouldn't tell me and.
11:20
Speaker 2: It just goes on so it doesn't, they would ask
11:23
Speaker 2: me questions, I would answer it and they'd say we
11:26
Speaker 2: do not accept this and then they move on and
11:29
Speaker 2: it's you're just constantly you realise there's absolutely no justice
11:33
Speaker 2: or anything, it's just a predetermined outcome that is happening
11:38
Speaker 2: and I also, I tried early on to fight them
11:41
Speaker 2: legally but that.
11:44
Speaker 4: I soon realised that this seems.
11:46
Speaker 2: To be Like you said, there's political interference happening where
11:53
Speaker 2: they all seem to work together. Like they were accusing
11:56
Speaker 2: me of practicing medicine without a license at one point
12:01
Speaker 2: when I had let my practicing certificate expire. And I said,
12:06
Speaker 2: how is it the practice of medicine? I'm publishing videos.
12:10
Speaker 2: I'm writing articles, books. How is this practice of medicine?
12:16
Speaker 2: everyone else seems to be able to talk freely about this,
12:19
Speaker 2: except if you're a doctor on the register, on the
12:22
Speaker 2: medical register.
12:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's staggering.
12:25
Speaker 1: You know, I'm obviously being reminded of some of this,
12:27
Speaker 1: even though we've spoken about it before. And we're only
12:30
Speaker 1: a few minutes in, but already we've got this idea
12:33
Speaker 1: of misinformation, you know, which became the critical buzzword from 2020.
12:39
Speaker 1: It was as though it just trumped anything. And the
12:44
Speaker 1: way in which you describe it, it's completely staggering because,
12:46
Speaker 1: of course, both positions were hypothetical. The government apparently were
12:51
Speaker 1: hypothesising that a drug that had not yet been created
12:55
Speaker 1: would be beneficial and safe. And you were simply taking
13:00
Speaker 1: a rational view of which was, again, hypothetical, because neither
13:05
Speaker 1: party could know. And yet, based simply on that... I mean,
13:11
Speaker 1: I don't need to spell it out. You've just described
13:12
Speaker 1: the incredible conflict of interest there with the indemnity insurer.
13:16
Speaker 1: I mean, it's quite perverse. And I think I'm right
13:22
Speaker 1: in saying that the campaign of lawfare conducted against you
13:28
Speaker 1: has been significant.
13:29
Speaker 3: And I think the.
13:31
Speaker 1: It's the Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Act 2003, I think,
13:35
Speaker 1: which has got sort of quite a lot to answer
13:36
Speaker 1: for insofar as how it was weaponised against you.
13:40
Speaker 3: Is that right?
13:42
Speaker 4: Absolutely. Thank you, Charles, for mentioning it.
13:44
Speaker 2: Yes, because I think the design of it, initially what
13:47
Speaker 2: it was intended for is against doctors that are causing
13:51
Speaker 2: harm to their patients. That's what it's for. But now
13:55
Speaker 2: what they're using it for in New Zealand, it's the...
13:59
Speaker 2: the linchpin of how they can control doctors' speech, how
14:04
Speaker 2: they control what they say to patients.
14:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that is terrifying, frankly, because, well, I mean,
14:14
Speaker 1: let's go back, you know, in your personal experience, was
14:16
Speaker 1: there ever any other time in your career where you
14:19
Speaker 1: felt pressure to conform to, you know, taking a particular
14:25
Speaker 1: line on a particular subject?
14:28
Speaker 4: Never, Charles.
14:30
Speaker 2: So this was unprecedented since 2020. I mean, it was
14:38
Speaker 2: so confronting because in 2021 they issued a guidance statement
14:43
Speaker 2: in New Zealand which specifically said that you had to
14:47
Speaker 2: recommend the benefits of the COVID-19 vaccine and there was
14:54
Speaker 2: no place for anti-vaccination messaging. So it was clear that
15:00
Speaker 2: if you said anything outside of it, that you were
15:05
Speaker 2: going to get in trouble. And it was soon revealed
15:08
Speaker 2: later that this guidance statement was drafted by a secretary
15:15
Speaker 2: on the dental council. So this had become just gospel, dogma,
15:22
Speaker 2: and And the thing is, everybody went along with it.
15:24
Speaker 2: I mean, there were many doctors that didn't, and there
15:28
Speaker 2: was a very strong group in New Zealand called the
15:30
Speaker 2: New Zealand Doctors Speaking Out With Science, and all of
15:33
Speaker 2: us did not agree to that, and it came together
15:36
Speaker 2: because of this guidance statement. But it was really quite
15:39
Speaker 2: shocking to see how quickly.
15:42
Speaker 4: Doctors fell into line and how much.
15:47
Speaker 2: The blunt realisation was obvious I could see how they
15:51
Speaker 2: can control doctors totally.
15:54
Speaker 4: Like it's not even a little bit.
15:56
Speaker 2: So doctors were so terrified of saying anything that I
16:00
Speaker 2: knew personally, I knew a doctor, a family doctor that
16:05
Speaker 2: would not speak the words, would utter them out loud.
16:09
Speaker 2: So if a patient came in and said, should I
16:11
Speaker 2: get this COVID vaccine? And they would shake their head
16:15
Speaker 2: because they couldn't say anything, but they were terrified of, uh,
16:20
Speaker 2: someone kind of dobbing them in or just getting in
16:23
Speaker 2: trouble for giving it, you know, saying anything about it.
16:27
Speaker 4: So it was very, um, it's, yeah, been a transformation.
16:31
Speaker 2: I don't know if that kind of feeling is still
16:33
Speaker 2: like that cause I'm out of medicine now, but it's, um,
16:37
Speaker 2: it's certainly changed and it's, yeah, it's very Orwellian.
16:40
Speaker 4: Yeah.
16:42
Speaker 1: I think Orwellian is exactly the right, the right word
16:44
Speaker 1: for it. And, um, And sort of beyond that, I mean,
16:47
Speaker 1: so incredibly vindictive. But just take us sort of further
16:52
Speaker 1: through the progression of what happened next. Because I mean,
16:56
Speaker 1: you know, already, you have, in effect, been put in
17:00
Speaker 1: an impossible position. And, you know, what, almost the question
17:06
Speaker 1: must be asked, what was sort of expected of you,
17:09
Speaker 1: because it was quite clear what your point of view was.
17:12
Speaker 1: So it looks very much like, and I think you've
17:15
Speaker 1: already alluded to it, their initial action was meant to provoke,
17:20
Speaker 1: maybe not a particular response, but they had an end
17:23
Speaker 1: state in mind already.
17:26
Speaker 4: Definitely. So I.
17:29
Speaker 2: Decided probably by the end of 2020, I thought I
17:33
Speaker 2: can't keep doing this. It's I just had such a
17:38
Speaker 2: feeling that this is really wrong. And just this, I thought,
17:43
Speaker 2: I don't even know where I can work even. I
17:45
Speaker 2: had a couple of jobs that still let me work
17:48
Speaker 2: for them, but I thought, I don't know how long
17:50
Speaker 2: that's going to last. So I thought, okay, I'm going
17:53
Speaker 2: to let my practicing certificate lapse. This is by mid-May 2021,
17:58
Speaker 2: before even the vaccine mandates and all that stuff happened.
18:03
Speaker 4: And so then... they had started their investigation.
18:08
Speaker 2: And so the medical council, when they started an investigation,
18:10
Speaker 2: they set up a committee which is chosen by them.
18:15
Speaker 2: And so these people are already in the mindset of
18:20
Speaker 2: what the medical council require. And I could see very
18:25
Speaker 2: quickly that this was got, they had this end game
18:29
Speaker 2: in mind. And I tried, I went to the high
18:31
Speaker 2: court and I tried to fight them out against this
18:34
Speaker 2: idea of practicing medicine without a license, and I lost.
18:40
Speaker 2: So I thought, okay, I am completely disengaging from this
18:46
Speaker 2: investigation with the medical council because it's futile. And so
18:51
Speaker 2: they ended up going to a disciplinary tribunal, which is
18:55
Speaker 2: the highest disciplinary procedure that they can do in New Zealand.
19:00
Speaker 2: And Essentially, it's not held in a court or anything.
19:04
Speaker 2: It's held in a hotel conference room with lawyers, and
19:10
Speaker 2: they have the charges. It went on for a couple
19:15
Speaker 2: of weeks or a week or something, and then they
19:19
Speaker 2: come out with their decision, and that decision was to
19:22
Speaker 2: strike me off and to fine me $ 160, 000 for causing
19:25
Speaker 2: public harm, even though There was no single case, nobody
19:34
Speaker 2: I had hurt. They still haven't told me because the
19:38
Speaker 2: potential for harm is the same to them as causing
19:41
Speaker 2: public harm.
19:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that takes some considerable beating, I think.
19:47
Speaker 1: And to what extent was... your lack of participation considered
19:54
Speaker 1: as a factor in any of this?
19:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, they were not happy with that. And
20:02
Speaker 2: part of their problem with me was because I would
20:06
Speaker 2: mock them. I would make fun of the medical council
20:10
Speaker 2: and my videos because of how ridiculous it is of
20:15
Speaker 2: what they're doing.
20:16
Speaker 4: And of course that made them extremely angry. And the
20:20
Speaker 4: whole thing was, I mean, it's a show. It's essentially
20:25
Speaker 4: the messaging.
20:26
Speaker 2: It wasn't even, it was about me, but most of
20:29
Speaker 2: it was to show other doctors to make me an
20:33
Speaker 2: example so that you know, there's no one else dissenting around.
20:38
Speaker 2: So I'm sure it contributed to the fines, the size
20:42
Speaker 2: of the fines. But again, it's an open checkbook for them.
20:47
Speaker 2: There is no limit on the costs that they can set.
20:51
Speaker 2: So unlike a high court or a lower level district court,
20:57
Speaker 2: there's usually like a cap on how much the costs
21:00
Speaker 2: can be.
21:00
Speaker 4: And that's agreed on.
21:02
Speaker 2: These disciplinary tribunals, it's an open book. So if they
21:07
Speaker 2: want to spend a million dollars on it, they can,
21:10
Speaker 2: and then they pass those costs on to the practitioner.
21:13
Speaker 2: And it's also really important to mention that the Medical
21:17
Speaker 2: Council of New Zealand, I'm not sure exactly they're set
21:20
Speaker 2: up with the GMC as a comparison, but here it's
21:24
Speaker 2: a private, it's a corporate body that runs as a charity.
21:29
Speaker 2: So they have a compulsory monopoly on on receiving funds
21:34
Speaker 2: from doctors in order to practice, you have to pay
21:38
Speaker 2: them money every year, that money is tax exempt. So
21:43
Speaker 2: they can keep whatever they want from that. They're extremely wealthy.
21:48
Speaker 2: So for example, last year they made $ 24 million and
21:53
Speaker 2: they're not accountable for where this money is spent.
21:57
Speaker 4: So it's literally... It's.
22:00
Speaker 2: Got the full backing of the government of the state,
22:04
Speaker 2: but they essentially run like a private organisation where you
22:07
Speaker 2: can't do foyers or freedom of information requests from them.
22:11
Speaker 2: Eight of the 12 members of the medical board are
22:15
Speaker 2: elected by the government. So whatever is the current administration
22:21
Speaker 2: dictates what goes on. So the people very much... are
22:27
Speaker 2: going to go along with exactly what the government want.
22:31
Speaker 2: And regardless, it was so absurd that they were targeting
22:36
Speaker 2: me for my publications and pretending that it was the
22:39
Speaker 2: practice of medicine.
22:41
Speaker 4: This is where it really, to me, is a well-in,
22:44
Speaker 4: where they control.
22:45
Speaker 2: You have people like taxi drivers and DJs and road
22:52
Speaker 2: signers that can say and give advice about whether you
22:56
Speaker 2: should take a vaccine or not. But as a licensed
23:01
Speaker 2: medical doctor, I was not able to say that because
23:05
Speaker 2: that was spreading of misinformation.
23:07
Speaker 1: When you put it like that, it's a position that
23:10
Speaker 1: really doesn't stand up at all. Just go to the fine,
23:17
Speaker 1: the amount of the fine for not committing any sort
23:24
Speaker 1: of harm to the public. How did they justify having
23:28
Speaker 1: arrived at that sum? Is there a sort of scale
23:33
Speaker 1: written down somewhere in a book or was that just
23:35
Speaker 1: plucked from nowhere?
23:37
Speaker 4: Yeah, there is no justification.
23:39
Speaker 2: So other doctors that have gone through this in New
23:41
Speaker 2: Zealand have asked for an itemised list, you know, Xeroxing phase,
23:46
Speaker 2: et cetera.
23:47
Speaker 4: There is nothing.
23:48
Speaker 2: So they just do is on the invoice that you're
23:51
Speaker 2: sent it has cost fines and, uh, disciplinary process. And then,
23:58
Speaker 2: so it's, it's basically for me, that first disciplinary tribunal
24:02
Speaker 2: came to $ 159, 000 and pay it into this bank account.
24:08
Speaker 2: It's essentially what they, what they do. So there's no,
24:11
Speaker 2: I've tried to find out what, what, how, how did
24:15
Speaker 2: they arrive at that figure?
24:16
Speaker 4: But they won't, won't, won't tell me.
24:18
Speaker 3: Okay.
24:19
Speaker 1: Well, obviously we're now sort of to, to the, meat
24:22
Speaker 1: of the discussion in a way because we're talking about
24:25
Speaker 1: the specific sum of money what did you do at
24:28
Speaker 1: that point and in effect what have you done since
24:32
Speaker 1: with regard to the sort of persistent demands or the
24:35
Speaker 1: actions that they've taken i mean obviously we'll break it
24:37
Speaker 1: down but but in the first instance what was your
24:39
Speaker 1: response to that.
24:41
Speaker 2: Yeah so i should also just quickly say um so
24:45
Speaker 2: for people um because i didn't mention it but so
24:48
Speaker 2: they kept me on the medical register and till 2024,
24:55
Speaker 2: when they released this first tribunal decision, so that they
25:00
Speaker 2: could run another investigation into more of my videos. And
25:07
Speaker 2: so that, there was a second disciplinary tribunal that happened, was,
25:11
Speaker 2: I was waiting for, well, I didn't know about it, actually,
25:15
Speaker 2: because I had completely cut off all communication and blocked them,
25:18
Speaker 2: so I didn't even know. But that tribunal has only
25:22
Speaker 2: just been released like about a few, a week or
25:24
Speaker 2: so ago.
25:25
Speaker 4: Um, but that was running.
25:27
Speaker 2: So they had known that they were keeping me on
25:30
Speaker 2: this register in order to, to add more costs to me.
25:34
Speaker 2: But initially when I got that first, um, fine, I
25:39
Speaker 2: was using the process of equity and I thought that
25:43
Speaker 2: this would work in terms of, um, that they couldn't
25:47
Speaker 2: basically get that money from me. Um, I got the
25:51
Speaker 2: invoice delivered to my home, but that was all I received.
25:55
Speaker 2: So I thought, okay, it must have gone, I don't know,
25:58
Speaker 2: it's gone away, or not gone away, but just I
26:01
Speaker 2: don't know what's happening with it. And I wasn't, I just,
26:07
Speaker 2: I felt that it was so wrong, and this is
26:10
Speaker 2: obviously what we talked about last time, about paying them
26:15
Speaker 2: this money for Because I feel like I haven't done
26:18
Speaker 2: anything wrong.
26:19
Speaker 4: So why should I pay these people, an institution, so
26:25
Speaker 4: much money? Anyway, what ended up happening was last year
26:31
Speaker 4: I was shopping for some stationery.
26:36
Speaker 2: And none of my bank cards would work. And I
26:41
Speaker 2: thought this is really strange. So I went to the bank.
26:45
Speaker 2: And the bank teller wrote on a piece of paper,
26:48
Speaker 2: have you been recently made bankrupt?
26:51
Speaker 4: And I said, what?
26:53
Speaker 3: No.
26:54
Speaker 4: Should I? I would know about this, wouldn't I? They
26:57
Speaker 4: would have told me. And she's like, yeah.
26:59
Speaker 2: And then I looked online on the insolvency, so the
27:04
Speaker 2: register of people that are bankrupt.
27:06
Speaker 4: And my name was on there.
27:08
Speaker 2: And they had declared me bankrupt in a high court
27:12
Speaker 2: three days earlier. And what I found out subsequently was this,
27:17
Speaker 2: the lawyers for the medical council had basically lied to
27:25
Speaker 2: the courts and made out that I lived overseas and
27:28
Speaker 2: so they couldn't serve me. And they did substituted service,
27:32
Speaker 2: which is a basically email. But I had blocked all
27:35
Speaker 2: of their emails since.
27:39
Speaker 4: 2021 when I was not engaging with their processes.
27:42
Speaker 2: And so it ended up we financed to go to
27:45
Speaker 2: the High Court to have this bankruptcy annulled. And I
27:51
Speaker 2: won because they hadn't done their process. And then the
27:55
Speaker 2: Medical Council basically started back to zero and, you know,
27:59
Speaker 2: trying to get this money again. And so that's what's
28:02
Speaker 2: been happening up until now, today, where it's just been
28:08
Speaker 2: more litigation and back and forth. And again, this process
28:12
Speaker 2: of equity, common law, I've tried every way that I've known,
28:19
Speaker 2: could know, to not pay them this money. And essentially,
28:25
Speaker 2: it just keeps going for me.
28:26
Speaker 4: It hasn't worked.
28:28
Speaker 2: I'm not sure in entirety, like Mark, they were going
28:31
Speaker 2: to start a prosecution against him. My husband, Mark, who
28:34
Speaker 2: was a doctor as well, but he'd left in 2016.
28:39
Speaker 4: He made a video or he was.
28:40
Speaker 2: Interviewed by someone and they were going to charge him,
28:44
Speaker 2: and he did an equity notice and immediately was taken
28:47
Speaker 2: off the register and let go. And I don't know
28:49
Speaker 2: why it worked for him, but it didn't work for me.
28:52
Speaker 2: But regardless, this is, yeah, where I am today.
28:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that makes terrible listening, Sam, for not
29:01
Speaker 1: just you, but obviously Mark and your family. And I
29:05
Speaker 1: think the point you raise about equity is just so jarring, really, because.
29:12
Speaker 1: It follows immediately discussion around the arrival of a fine
29:16
Speaker 1: of a particular figure that is not at all justified
29:20
Speaker 1: and that in effect goes back into the coffers of
29:24
Speaker 1: an organisation that bears no scrutiny. So equity, the fact
29:30
Speaker 1: that the principle of fairness may not be brought to
29:34
Speaker 1: bear in this situation, in a way tells you all
29:38
Speaker 1: you need to know But just go further into the
29:42
Speaker 1: specifics of the bankruptcy and how it's possible that that
29:49
Speaker 1: was the sort of next step taken. I mean, how
29:51
Speaker 1: on earth do they even have the power to do that?
29:54
Speaker 1: What are the sort of ramifications of it?
29:58
Speaker 2: So with the, in New Zealand, with the legislation of
30:00
Speaker 2: the HBCAA that you mentioned, the Health Practitioner's Competency, so
30:05
Speaker 2: once a disciplinary tribunal makes the charges and issues, says
30:10
Speaker 2: this is the cost and this is the fine, it
30:12
Speaker 2: essentially goes straight to, they took it to a district
30:16
Speaker 2: court to get a summary judgment straight away. And it's
30:19
Speaker 2: a rubber stamp exercise because there's no, I can't fight
30:23
Speaker 2: it and say that that decision was wrong.
30:25
Speaker 4: I have to appeal the.
30:27
Speaker 2: Disciplinary process itself there's a time limit for that the
30:31
Speaker 2: whole process is unfair so it's there's no justice with
30:36
Speaker 2: how that's conducted it's essentially like I say a rubber
30:40
Speaker 2: stamping exercise so I wasn't entirely sure of what they
30:45
Speaker 2: were going to do I thought that they would try
30:48
Speaker 2: and apply to a court for an attachment order or
30:52
Speaker 2: something along those lines I didn't expect that they would
30:55
Speaker 2: do Bankruptcy but that was What happened and because I
31:00
Speaker 2: wasn't Notified or anything It was just a sudden total
31:04
Speaker 2: Shock to our family And When you've never Obviously when
31:11
Speaker 2: people want to Go into a state of bankruptcy I
31:14
Speaker 2: totally Identify with that and it's the only way out
31:17
Speaker 2: But when you don't Want to go into that state
31:20
Speaker 2: It's a major shock because I mean you can talk
31:24
Speaker 2: about that Soon but there's a lot of things that
31:27
Speaker 2: go along with being made bankrupt.
31:29
Speaker 4: I think, to be honest with you, Charles, that the.
31:32
Speaker 2: Main reason that they did that was to be able
31:35
Speaker 2: to control my work, so to stop me publishing. That was,
31:40
Speaker 2: I think, why they went that route. They haven't done
31:45
Speaker 2: that with any other doctor in New Zealand, even though
31:47
Speaker 2: there's been some high fines. Usually other doctors that have
31:52
Speaker 2: had the same situation, they'll... agree to certain terms and
31:59
Speaker 2: ways of mitigating it. So whereas I was very much, no,
32:05
Speaker 2: I'm not going to give them any money and I'm
32:08
Speaker 2: not going to do it. But I soon realised that
32:11
Speaker 2: that was impossible, that they will get their money one
32:14
Speaker 2: way or another.
32:16
Speaker 3: It is a system.
32:17
Speaker 1: I think this is clear now from the way in
32:20
Speaker 1: which you have described things to this point, regardless of
32:23
Speaker 1: whether anyone had heard about your situation before. it is
32:27
Speaker 1: overwhelmingly clear that the situation, the system is, it's not
32:31
Speaker 1: just that it's not fair. It was absolutely turned and
32:36
Speaker 1: targeted towards you in order to create the worst possible
32:42
Speaker 1: outcome for you. I asked you before we were recording,
32:45
Speaker 1: I asked you about the extent to which the bankruptcy
32:51
Speaker 1: had happened sort of taken effect in terms of bank
32:55
Speaker 1: accounts and whether it only applied to those that were
32:59
Speaker 1: within New Zealand.
33:00
Speaker 3: And you told me that that wasn't the case.
33:04
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, it had effects wide ranging.
33:07
Speaker 2: So I had some international accounts and they stopped that
33:15
Speaker 2: because the thing is the official SINE, you become managed
33:20
Speaker 2: by someone. so you become like an infant and that
33:22
Speaker 2: you can't do your finances. So someone else manages things
33:26
Speaker 2: and they go through everything. Um, and so they had
33:29
Speaker 2: seen that I had an international bank account. They wrote
33:32
Speaker 2: to them and that was suspended, even though I didn't,
33:35
Speaker 2: they didn't have jurisdiction, but it didn't matter. Um, so I, yeah,
33:39
Speaker 2: literally I had no ability to, uh, get, uh, have
33:45
Speaker 2: a bank account. You can't do online banking. You can't
33:49
Speaker 2: have a, a bank card that does paywave. There's all
33:52
Speaker 2: sorts of things like that.
33:54
Speaker 4: They had very wide-ranging.
33:58
Speaker 2: Travel becomes a problem where you need to ask permission
34:01
Speaker 2: to be able to travel, and they just decide arbitrarily
34:05
Speaker 2: whether you can.
34:07
Speaker 4: Or not.
34:09
Speaker 2: They didn't take any funds because it has to be
34:13
Speaker 2: over a certain amount for me, so they actually didn't.
34:17
Speaker 2: And because I was contesting the bankruptcy from the beginning,
34:20
Speaker 2: I knew that I was going to, I applied as
34:23
Speaker 2: soon as I found out about it, I applied for
34:25
Speaker 2: the annulment.
34:27
Speaker 4: I didn't engage with the, you have to.
34:29
Speaker 2: Do statement of affairs and all sorts of documentation about
34:33
Speaker 2: what you work, what you do.
34:34
Speaker 4: It's a big deal.
34:36
Speaker 2: And one of the most kind of frightening things for
34:40
Speaker 2: me personally, was that when you're on this register, it
34:44
Speaker 2: lists your home address and it's publicly available so anyone
34:48
Speaker 2: can look that up and come to your house. And
34:51
Speaker 2: so it's just, it's a major deal to have to
34:54
Speaker 2: go through that bankruptcy.
34:57
Speaker 4: State.
34:58
Speaker 2: You're not actually allowed to go. I don't know how
35:01
Speaker 2: it worked because I managed to, but you're supposed to
35:04
Speaker 2: have reduced legal standing so you can't even.
35:08
Speaker 4: File anything in the district courts.
35:11
Speaker 2: You have to have permission that has to be organised
35:14
Speaker 2: through your official assignee.
35:16
Speaker 4: And because I was asking for annulment, they allowed it.
35:21
Speaker 4: But it.
35:23
Speaker 2: Was really strange to be put into that all of
35:28
Speaker 2: a sudden, no warning, and you literally become dependent on
35:32
Speaker 2: other people for money.
35:34
Speaker 1: You know, that's sort of where you've got to. So
35:36
Speaker 1: let's just come up to sort of the present day.
35:38
Speaker 1: You've been given... a hard deadline with a specific sum
35:43
Speaker 1: of money. And as I said at the beginning, and
35:46
Speaker 1: as you confirmed, this has been the point at which
35:49
Speaker 1: you have gone through all the options and identified that
35:54
Speaker 1: the only one that makes any sense is to do
35:57
Speaker 1: what you had in effect resisted for six years, which
36:00
Speaker 1: was to ask anybody else for help.
36:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's really hard, Charles. I won't deny asking
36:09
Speaker 2: for help when you You'd rather not. It's not like
36:11
Speaker 2: I want to pay the medical council anything. They don't
36:14
Speaker 2: deserve it. What ended up happening with that second disciplinary
36:18
Speaker 2: tribunal process was that I was issued with a further fine,
36:21
Speaker 2: which was for $ 87, 000 New Zealand dollars. So the total
36:25
Speaker 2: came to $ 250, 000 New Zealand dollars, which I think is about,
36:28
Speaker 2: what did we work out? $ 140, 000. or something along those lines.
36:36
Speaker 4: Maybe I'm thinking of US dollars. It might be less
36:38
Speaker 4: in pounds.
36:40
Speaker 2: Anyway, I've had quite a few people ask me, why
36:43
Speaker 2: don't you just go into the state of bankruptcy and
36:45
Speaker 2: let it happen and let the money, you know, the
36:49
Speaker 2: debts be discharged?
36:50
Speaker 4: And unfortunately, it's not that simple.
36:52
Speaker 2: Basically, once you come into bankruptcy, they will sees assets
36:57
Speaker 2: and they go through everything so it's not the official
37:00
Speaker 2: assignee has a lot of power the greatest thing I
37:05
Speaker 2: fear with that process is that the medical council will
37:09
Speaker 2: win because they can then control whether my work so
37:15
Speaker 2: publishing online videos even though this is not this is
37:21
Speaker 2: not the practice of medicine or anything else but it's
37:23
Speaker 2: they they can decide that so I.
37:28
Speaker 4: Do not want to be put into that state.
37:30
Speaker 2: So basically the medical council will get their money, but
37:33
Speaker 2: I will be personally heavily punished. And the truth of
37:38
Speaker 2: it is, is that I have fought them for six years.
37:41
Speaker 2: This has been a battle of litigation for six years.
37:45
Speaker 2: And to me, it's strange because my youngest son, who's five,
37:50
Speaker 2: is longer than his entire life.
37:51
Speaker 4: And you feel, well.
37:54
Speaker 2: How can I steal the thunder from the Medical Council?
37:57
Speaker 2: What is it that they want to do? They want
38:00
Speaker 2: to financially punish me. But I'm asking for help because
38:06
Speaker 2: this takes it away from them. It basically says, here's
38:10
Speaker 2: the public who I have stood up for, I have
38:13
Speaker 2: spoken the truth for.
38:16
Speaker 4: They are standing in the place for me.
38:19
Speaker 2: And I think that optically, it's terrible.
38:23
Speaker 4: For the Medical Council.
38:25
Speaker 2: So yeah um both Mark and I have spent tens
38:31
Speaker 2: of thousands of dollars on legal well particularly with the
38:35
Speaker 2: High Court um when I did the annulment we won
38:40
Speaker 2: some costs but it was essentially the third of what
38:42
Speaker 2: we'd spent um in order to fight it so it's
38:45
Speaker 2: not like it's been an easy run and it's just
38:48
Speaker 2: also personally and emotionally it has been really tough like
38:53
Speaker 2: I won't deny it it's you feel like I want
38:56
Speaker 2: it to come to an end. Anyone who's gone through
39:00
Speaker 2: litigation for any length of time will know what I'm
39:04
Speaker 2: talking about, where it's every day.
39:06
Speaker 4: You can't get away from it.
39:07
Speaker 2: So that is why I'm asking for help in anything,
39:11
Speaker 2: anything small.
39:12
Speaker 4: It makes such a difference to me.
39:13
Speaker 2: And I've felt so blessed, Charles, because I've released the
39:18
Speaker 2: fundraiser three days ago and it's already reached 62%. and
39:25
Speaker 2: what we've raised. So it's just been phenomenal. And people
39:29
Speaker 2: are really standing behind me. And when you, it's a
39:33
Speaker 2: leap of faith when you do this, because you don't
39:36
Speaker 2: know what, if people will help or not. And, and
39:39
Speaker 2: I'm so grateful for Honestly, it brings tears to my
39:43
Speaker 2: eyes to read what people say and how they help
39:46
Speaker 2: you and they're total strangers, but they can see what
39:50
Speaker 2: you're trying to do or what the risk, what the
39:53
Speaker 2: personal cost it has been to me.
39:55
Speaker 4: So I'm so grateful.
39:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure you are. And that comes through as
40:00
Speaker 1: being very sincere and very heartfelt. And I think anyone can.
40:04
Speaker 1: viewing or listening until now, will have a very, very
40:07
Speaker 1: good idea of why this is quite so important, not
40:10
Speaker 1: just to you, but, as you say, the wider optics
40:14
Speaker 1: of the situation. Well, I have to say, I didn't
40:16
Speaker 1: realise that it had got to 62% already, and I'm
40:19
Speaker 1: so pleased for you that that is the case.
40:22
Speaker 3: Obviously, what you.
40:24
Speaker 1: Hope, what I hope, what I'm sure now anyone listening
40:27
Speaker 1: or watching hopes is that you will hit that target
40:30
Speaker 1: in short order.
40:32
Speaker 2: Now....
40:34
Speaker 1: Where do people go in order to find out more
40:37
Speaker 1: about it and to actually be able to help out
40:39
Speaker 1: if they'd like to do so?
40:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the fundraiser I've set up is with Give, Send, Go,
40:46
Speaker 2: and it's Can You Help Dr.
40:48
Speaker 1: Sam?
40:49
Speaker 2: Is basically, but I'm sure the links will be in
40:51
Speaker 2: the show notes. But equally, and I understand everybody is financially,
40:58
Speaker 2: it's a really, really difficult time, and I completely understand
41:02
Speaker 2: If you can't do that, one thing I will ask
41:04
Speaker 2: you from Dr. Sam is if you can write to
41:08
Speaker 2: the medical council and give them feedback because they accept
41:13
Speaker 2: all sorts of, in my case, the complaints came internationally.
41:19
Speaker 4: So I know that they receive emails from people.
41:22
Speaker 2: From international waters over the sea.
41:26
Speaker 4: So if you can write to.
41:27
Speaker 2: Them and give them pushback, That to me is worth
41:31
Speaker 2: more than anything because I think that is the only
41:34
Speaker 2: way things actually change is for them to see that
41:38
Speaker 2: the public are against this because it's wrong. It's not
41:42
Speaker 2: happening to just me. I mean, there's lots of examples
41:46
Speaker 2: in New Zealand and in the UK. And I know
41:50
Speaker 2: how I've spoken personally with or interviewed other doctors that
41:55
Speaker 2: have gone through hell with the GMC as well. And
41:59
Speaker 2: so I feel like this is an international problem because
42:02
Speaker 2: the medical councils all across the world are now controlled
42:06
Speaker 2: by a small number of people, by organisations such as
42:12
Speaker 2: the Federal State Medical Boards, the IAMRA, International Associated Medical
42:18
Speaker 2: Regulatory Specialty, I think. So these organisations are quite dark
42:25
Speaker 2: and it's basically funded by Big Pharma. And that's the
42:31
Speaker 2: control arm. And so all doctors are under these same rules.
42:35
Speaker 2: And that's why you have the difficulty when you go
42:38
Speaker 2: to a doctor and they can't tell you things. They
42:40
Speaker 2: can't tell you the truth because of this control. So
42:45
Speaker 2: giving them pushback, you know, is so important. So if
42:50
Speaker 2: you can't support, you can help me by writing to
42:56
Speaker 2: the New.
42:56
Speaker 4: Zealand Medical Council.
42:57
Speaker 1: I think that's a great message. And I think the
42:59
Speaker 1: only thing I would follow up with is if you
43:00
Speaker 1: are able to support financially, please also do submit a
43:05
Speaker 1: message to the Medical Council. And yes, absolutely, there will
43:08
Speaker 1: be a link to both of those things in the notes.
43:12
Speaker 1: And Sam, you know, I think personally, obviously, I really
43:16
Speaker 1: do commend you for making that decision, but also for
43:20
Speaker 1: going through this for making it public because it's it
43:24
Speaker 1: is very very easy to see you know the emotion
43:26
Speaker 1: in your voice and written all over your face it
43:29
Speaker 1: is this is a seriously difficult thing to do and
43:31
Speaker 1: I and I absolutely sympathize and I'm sure anybody listening
43:34
Speaker 1: would to to go public and in effect ask people
43:38
Speaker 1: for money is a very very difficult thing to do
43:41
Speaker 1: and and I really do applaud you for taking us
43:44
Speaker 1: through all the stages that have put you in a
43:47
Speaker 1: position where you consider that it is really the only
43:49
Speaker 1: option for you and your family.
43:52
Speaker 2: Yeah no oh I just am so grateful for the
43:54
Speaker 2: opportunity and just uh I think it's um I mean
44:00
Speaker 2: all of us are trying to shine lights trying to
44:03
Speaker 2: show the truth uh you know UK Column is a
44:06
Speaker 2: classic where you're you can't, sometimes you're not even aware
44:10
Speaker 2: of some of these things that are going on until
44:12
Speaker 2: you have independent people that don't have quite evil organizations
44:19
Speaker 2: behind them, you know, so it's biased and you can't
44:23
Speaker 2: trust it. And one thing I've seen myself is, yeah,
44:28
Speaker 2: like some of the comments is that thank you for
44:30
Speaker 2: standing up and thank you for speaking the truth.
44:33
Speaker 4: And when you I've always felt that you have to
44:39
Speaker 4: do the right thing.
44:40
Speaker 2: You know, the reason I started speaking out was because
44:44
Speaker 2: in the beginning of 2020, I could see that this
44:47
Speaker 2: was wrong. And I was looking around thinking, why aren't
44:50
Speaker 2: there any doctors saying anything?
44:54
Speaker 4: When are people going to.
44:54
Speaker 2: Start talking about this? And I thought, I have to
44:57
Speaker 2: do it. I have to start speaking up. And I
44:59
Speaker 2: didn't know, obviously, what was going to come. But I
45:02
Speaker 2: still don't have any regrets. And the beauty of this,
45:06
Speaker 2: Charles has been that it has, oh my gosh, has
45:11
Speaker 2: brought our family into such a much better place. You know,
45:15
Speaker 2: the things that came out of COVID, of actually losing
45:20
Speaker 2: false friends, finding new ones. We homeschool our kids now.
45:25
Speaker 2: I've got three sons and I homeschool them. And we
45:29
Speaker 2: live on a small like farm and have our own food.
45:32
Speaker 2: And I have my own dairy cow that I milk
45:36
Speaker 2: every day. And you think these amazing things that are
45:39
Speaker 2: so beautiful that wouldn't, I would be in a very
45:43
Speaker 2: different world. And I could have easily stayed as a
45:46
Speaker 2: medical doctor.
45:47
Speaker 4: On a very good income.
45:49
Speaker 2: Like another criticism I get is that I did this
45:52
Speaker 2: in order to sell books or something. I don't think
45:55
Speaker 2: people realize that you're on quite a good income as
45:57
Speaker 2: a medical doctor. Why would you give that up if
46:01
Speaker 2: money is in your mind, you know? It wasn't about
46:05
Speaker 2: that for me. I just felt like I had to
46:06
Speaker 2: say something and I'd do it again.
46:08
Speaker 4: And I'm grateful.
46:10
Speaker 2: And it's also brought me into contact with people like you, Charles,
46:13
Speaker 2: and other such amazingly impressive people.
46:18
Speaker 4: So, yeah, I'm grateful.
46:21
Speaker 1: Well, Sam, I mean, it's really heartening to hear you
46:24
Speaker 1: say that you would do it all over again, bearing
46:27
Speaker 1: in mind what we've just heard.
46:28
Speaker 3: I mean, that is phenomenal to listen to.
46:30
Speaker 1: But I think also the other message that I really
46:32
Speaker 1: hope that people do take away and embrace is exactly
46:35
Speaker 1: what you say about the strengthening of your family unit,
46:37
Speaker 1: the way in which you've modified and adapted your life, frankly,
46:41
Speaker 1: to overcome what you've seen unfold before you. And that
46:45
Speaker 1: is a terrific tale. I mean, it's a terrific tale
46:48
Speaker 1: on its own, but when you set it against the
46:50
Speaker 1: extraordinary persecution that you have been subjected to, then that
46:55
Speaker 1: is a huge credit to you and your family, I think.
46:59
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.
47:00
Speaker 2: And I think sometimes you're not even aware of what
47:03
Speaker 2: you can, the spirit or what you're capable of, because
47:10
Speaker 2: some of the real nasty stuff that's happened, Charles, is
47:13
Speaker 2: that we've had Really recently, a family home, the border
47:19
Speaker 2: of a family home was broken into by a process server.
47:21
Speaker 2: This was to serve the bankruptcy summons. And it was
47:28
Speaker 2: honestly awful what happened. And you think all of these things,
47:34
Speaker 2: you feel like you want it to end. But at
47:37
Speaker 2: the same time, I know that it's made me personally
47:40
Speaker 2: a lot stronger and more resilient and And things don't
47:43
Speaker 2: faze me so much. And maybe that's part of it
47:46
Speaker 2: is facing tyrants. As you go, okay, how can I...
47:49
Speaker 2: I know I can't take it all on myself. But
47:53
Speaker 2: how can I improve myself and let it... And also
47:58
Speaker 2: be someone that my children can see what I'm doing.
48:03
Speaker 2: So that at least they can learn how to handle
48:05
Speaker 2: this as well. So it's been really, really positive. And
48:10
Speaker 2: it thankfully... My husband, Mark, he's been amazing. He's a
48:14
Speaker 2: rock and nothing fazes him. And it's brought us so
48:19
Speaker 2: close together and I feel very grateful for that too
48:21
Speaker 2: because I know this whole thing that's happened in 2020
48:24
Speaker 2: and beyond has split up so many relationships. But for us,
48:28
Speaker 2: it made us so much stronger and given us such
48:31
Speaker 2: a sense of purpose. So, yeah, I think there is
48:34
Speaker 2: something for standing up to, you know, to the Goliaths.
48:38
Speaker 4: And feeling like.
48:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm not going to, once these fines are gone,
48:46
Speaker 2: it's not like I'm going to, I'm not finished with
48:49
Speaker 2: the medical council.
48:52
Speaker 4: They better watch out because I've got more for them.
48:55
Speaker 3: Well, that is good.
48:56
Speaker 1: And we will convene when you've decided upon your specific
49:00
Speaker 1: plan for them. But look, let's... Let's draw to a
49:05
Speaker 1: close now because I think we've encapsulated all the big
49:09
Speaker 1: stuff and there really is some big stuff there. So
49:12
Speaker 1: I thank you for being quite so candid in going
49:15
Speaker 1: through it. Of course, I as I said we will
49:18
Speaker 1: put the link to the crowdfunder and to the medical
49:23
Speaker 1: council sort of how to get in touch but but
49:26
Speaker 1: what I should also do is ask where can people
49:29
Speaker 1: go to find out what you are doing uh besides all.
49:32
Speaker 2: That yeah so if people would like to um follow
49:37
Speaker 2: um my work and my husband's work It's at the
49:40
Speaker 2: best place is really our website. It's the UK column.
49:43
Speaker 2: You're constantly doing a bit of a dance. I am
49:46
Speaker 2: on YouTube, Dr.
49:47
Speaker 4: Sam Bailey.
49:48
Speaker 2: But if you can go to drsambaley.com, then you'll be
49:54
Speaker 2: able to find we provide 90% of our work. We
49:58
Speaker 2: provide for free content, videos, publications, articles.
50:04
Speaker 4: And, yeah, it's a pleasure. Yeah.
50:09
Speaker 3: Good.
50:09
Speaker 1: Well, look, Sam Bailey, I think I speak for UK
50:12
Speaker 1: Column and its entire audience in wishing you the very,
50:16
Speaker 1: very best of luck, but also in thanking you a
50:19
Speaker 1: huge amount for giving this interview at this time.
50:23
Speaker 3: And we'll really look forward to talking to you again.
50:24
Speaker 4: Thank you, Charles. It's been a pleasure.