Latest / The Diary of a CFO / Taking on roles where you are expected to fix things (with Brenda Hodo-Iddris)

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Taking on roles where you are expected to fix things (with Brenda Hodo-Iddris) · The Diary of a CFO

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Welcome back to the Diary of a CFO podcast, the
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space where you will find real -world insight
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to become a better leader and be better at life.
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I'm your host, Waseya Kaman, and today I'm so
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delighted to have with me a very special guest.
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Her name is Brenda Odo Idris. She is a CFO with
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over 20 years in finance and accounting and operations.
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She has worked in public trading, a for -profit
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organization, and also not -profit. From large
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to small organizations, we spent several industries.
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She decided to focus on craft versus industry,
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so that she always has a transferable skill set
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and knowledge that she can share regarding financial
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strategy and financial operations. So she's able
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at the end of the day to apply that knowledge
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in any organization within any industry. Welcome
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to the diary of the CFO. Thank you. Thank you
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for having me. Your profile, your background
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is so impressive. Would you please share a bit
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of a highlight? What was your journey like to
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where you are now as a CFO? Sure. Simply put,
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undergrad and graduate school, I never had my
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sights on being a CFO. And for me, it was because
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I started out in my career working for really
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large publicly traded companies, you know, the
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100 ,000 employee companies. And then I went
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to work for a powerhouse, publicly traded real
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estate developer. And I was in financial technology
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company, very large companies. And when you're
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in such a large company, having your sights on
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being the CFO of that company, it seems so out
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of reach. Wow. And it was just not a focus of
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mine. I was really focused on being the best
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financial business partner within whatever region
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or division I was in. And it wasn't until I was
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recruited, I was working for a smaller publicly
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traded bank in the city I lived in. I was recruited
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away. I was approached by a recruiter for an
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opportunity to join a nonprofit. They wanted
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someone who had a for -profit business background
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to help develop financial operations in their
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FP &A. And I never thought I would go into nonprofit
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either, but it was a great opportunity. And the
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CFO that recruited me, she was a former 30, 40
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year veteran in the business and she really wanted
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my help. And so I jumped ship and said, okay,
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let me try this opportunity for, you know, a
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couple of years, help them out. I ended up being
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a nonprofit for 10 years. And in that journey,
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she was a mentor of mine and When I speak about
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the CFO track, she told me one day that I had
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everything it took to be a CFO. I had never thought
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about it. I honestly had never thought about
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it. And I went from there. Nice. Wow. Love that
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story because I also got pushed into nonprofit.
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So I was in manufacturing for 15 years before
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joining a not -for -profit. And I understand
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how you say When you work for such a big organization,
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it's hard to see yourself as a CFO. It feels
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out of reach. But then when you switch from business
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size to industry, it's probably easier to get
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there. So besides that first switch to now you're
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in a not -for -profit, what has been that switch
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for you to get to that CFO stage? So I think
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that support and that inkling that she gave me
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and that mentorship like, oh, I do. Because I
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hadn't focused on it, I guess I hadn't really
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studied what it would take for someone to be
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a CFO of that level. I had really admired her
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so much because she was so brilliant and so she's
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very smart. And again, she started mentoring
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me. And so when she told me that and she told
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it to me, it was like we over a cup of coffee,
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like it was written, you know, you didn't know
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this, that you could be a CFO of anywhere that
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you wanted to be a CFO of. And so, you know,
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I just started really paying attention to that
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and joining a lot of leadership groups. I had
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already been in leadership before then. And then,
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so I just started having my sights set on that.
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I'm very aggressive when it comes to my career.
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And so that, I guess, gave me an extra boost
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of confidence. And I began to focus on that path
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and put myself in positions and companies that
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had that CFO track. And can you please share
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a bit more about what you found out about when
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you say companies and roles, what kind of experiences
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did you feel you missed or wanting to do more
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of to get you further ahead? So for me, since
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I was already in nonprofit at the time, the way
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in I thought was to continue that path because
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now a lot of nonprofits are broken in terms of
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financial strategy and operations. carved out
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myself a little niche in that space where I became
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the Olivia Pope, if you will, of finance and
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became the fixer working to repair a lot of their
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operations and help with implementing the right
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financial structure, negotiating debt deals and
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things like that to help nonprofits to survive.
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So that is kind of how I built that path and
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start focusing on CFO leadership was through
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nonprofit because I felt it was an easier in
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to get that experience knowing that it's really
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transferable to for profit as well. That's what
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I did. So I got that experience. I worked in
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nonprofit for 10 years. And then my goal was
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always go back to for profit. And I had that
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opportunity three years ago. And so I did that.
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Awesome. So where you are now in that path to
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becoming the CFO you are today, there is a lot
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of things I have to do besides operation with
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strategy overall. And I realize that strategy
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is not something that, you know, you're taught
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typically in school. So how did you get to sharpen
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the strategic skills of being a finance leader?
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Lesson number one, you cannot be a strategic
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influencer. and stay behind your desk. If I don't
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leave you with anything, I want to leave you
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with this. You have to be in the meetings. You
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have to be in the conversations with your colleagues,
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your business partners, because if you're not,
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you're going to miss the information that's needed
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to help guide them and marry with the financial
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strategic solutions for the company. That's one.
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The second thing that I really strongly believe
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helps is to extend yourself beyond the financials.
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You don't have to be limited to staying in your
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place. Financial or CFOs also have great business
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minds and solutions as well for the organization.
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You're just leading the financial operations.
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But you have so much more to offer in terms of
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knowing where the organization needs to go. I
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think we have even more to offer. than some of
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our colleagues because we have the edge up with
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the financial background. The trick is when you
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are in a role, people may see you one way. That's
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why you have to open your mouth and you have
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to be seen and heard and you can't do that unless
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you're in the discussions. Yes. Oh, I love it.
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Now I will say, is that easy to be seen and heard?
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No. Sometimes they want to block you and not
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want you to attend the meetings or discussions
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because they don't want to hear what you have
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your input. But you have to really get them to
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understand when I say them, it's your colleagues,
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your business partners. Invite them to see and
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understand your view. I love what you said about
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you have to be in a conversation. You have to
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go beyond the financials. You have to be seen.
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You have to be to be heard, even though sometimes,
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you know, maybe hard to do it. In all that, you
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were able to niche yourself as the fixer. I want
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to just get back to it for a second because If
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I see you as the Olivia Pope, right, as the fixer
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in that realm of financial leadership, it means
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a lot of people skills that we often neglect
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in finance and accounting. I would agree. How
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did you sharpen those skills, right? The soft,
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so you explain a bit about how you sharpen your
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strategic skills, but then the soft skills, right?
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How do you get people to move when they don't
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report to you? When you're not doing their performance
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review, I can give them a raise. How do you become
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that strategic influencer on the people side?
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I think you have to show your personality box.
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You know, for those that have that, you really
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have to hone in on that. And what I mean is go
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to the lunches that you're invited to or invite
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those to go to lunch with you so they can get
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to know you a little differently outside of your
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background. Attend the company dinners and that
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those type of things. Not forcibly, you know,
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enjoy it. Like I happen to enjoy doing those
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things when my schedule allows me. So that way
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they can see you in a different light. And then
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when you are in the meetings and the discussions,
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participate. Not just sit there and take it all
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in. Have a voice to add to the conversation so
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they can also get to know you a little better.
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and your personality and, you know, maybe bring
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up things that are personal that you're willing
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to share so they can get you to know you a little
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better and see you in a different way. What I
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learned a long time ago when I was first starting
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out leadership is when someone trusts you, and
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this is like business or personal, the lines
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of communication will remain open. The communication
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will flow. I just try to build those relationships
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so that they begin to trust what I'm Helping
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them with and then you know, they'll start to
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come to you for solutions Yes, I love it. And
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the reason I say I love this because when I started
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my role as a CFO So right now i'm in like in
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my 90 days as we're recording this one of the
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things I realized yes Is you have to build that
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trust quickly? Because you come in and there
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is stuff to fix. You come in, there is relationships
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to build, there is inputs needed here and there.
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What are some of your advice for newbie number
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one right here on this call to build that trust
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quickly? Like you don't have time, you were just
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hired. What are some of the quick things that
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you will say will help building that trust, building
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that credibility? You got to get allies. And
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allies do not always come in the form of your
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direct peers. They can come from those below.
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What I would recommend is you start to set up
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meetings and have conversations with the levels
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below. Those middle managers, those working staff
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that's moving the company forward every day on
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the front line, talk to them. Ask them what their
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needs are, the things that they have seen that
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can be improved in the organization. and begin
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to craft yourself a list. And I call it an opportunities
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list. Whenever I start a new role, I don't call
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it the problems. I call it an opportunity list.
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And that list is built or developed by me having
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conversations and getting the insight and perspectives
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of different levels in the company. That's awesome.
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I usually call mine the hit list. So I like it.
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I will use the opportunity list moving forward.
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Thank you so much now follow up on that is the
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hit list or the opportunity list then to get
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longer and longer Okay, I started with a little
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book then got on Excel then on Post -it notes
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and it's kind of hard at some point to get Organized
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with all the things that come now under the umbrella
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of a CFO, right? You have to know a little bit
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about IT a little bit of HR a little bit about
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everything So how do you keep yourself? organized
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That is a great question. I am an organized person,
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so to not be, I will begin to itch. I use a lot
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of, not as high -tech things as you may think,
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but I use a Gantt chart. I use all -inclusive.
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agendas when I have one on ones with my teams,
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I share the agendas in like SharePoint so that
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they can add to it's a fluid document. That really
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helps keep us organized because they can add
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to the agendas and things we need to discuss
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and keep everyone accountable on track. But the
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Gantt charts really work with me a lot. And so
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things that I need to follow up on and manage
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even for, you know, for my own to do, the Gantt
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charts really help me. In terms of moving things
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from that opportunities list, that's all about
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prioritization. So whenever we're in a strategic
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planning period, things that are on that list
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that really need to be focused on, I prioritize
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those in terms of adding them to our strategic
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plan and getting the buy -in of my peers to also
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make it say, yes, we think that needs to be a
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priority. Okay, so that's how I've been able
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to move certain things off of that list now other
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things on the opportunities list I would say
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most things on the opportunity list are more
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tactical operational driven things you just need
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to accomplish and get done with your staff and
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Building things and improving things the more
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strategic things outwardly facing require That
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partnership of your colleague because it's you
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know more organization pushing the organization
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forward and not just improving things within
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the operational and financial realm. So it's
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a little bit of both, moving things from that
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opportunities list can be a day -to -day tactical
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and some things prioritize within the strategic
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plan. Awesome. In that, I can see how there is
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part, like you said, where you need your peers
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and part where you need your team. And how do
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you build a high performing team, a team that
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you probably mentor, you coach that's there for
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you, a team that's able and capable? have the
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capacity to carry that opportunities forward.
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What are some tips there? What's really tough
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is when you're a new leader coming in and you
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inherit your team. I've never been a leader that
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comes in, like throw the... What's that saying?
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Throw the baby out with the bath water or whatever
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that is. Through the ranks, yes. Never that.
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But you do want to come in and observe the skill
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set. And if the skill set is not up to par, identify
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what those weaknesses are. and get them the training
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that they may need, whatever that gap is. If
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that's still not working, then there's some tough
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conversations that probably need to be had, and
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then move on from there. Either way, you're going
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to come back to the same result. To build that
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high -performing team, you have to give the team
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the tools they need to do their job, whether
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that's the skill set or training, technology,
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whatever that is, they will not be able to do
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the job. in the way that you think it needs to
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be done to move the company forward until they
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are provided all of those things. And then once
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they have that support, they need continued support
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from you. They need your buy -in. They need things.
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They need help if they're trying to get through
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to colleagues. They need the support of their
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CFO to back them and what they're asking for
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and that support. I can't tell you enough how
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much that builds trust with your team when you
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can give them that support. when they're trying
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to get things done outside of your division or
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outside of their department. That really goes
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a long way and they will stick beside you. They'll
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perform. I love it. Getting the tools that need
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to perform. One thing you had shared too on LinkedIn
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was how you were sharing the successes of your
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division as well to the executive team. Can you
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please share more about that as well? So being
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a finance and accounting and operational leader,
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we're not so much typically client facing. We
16:27
are focused on the business and that has internal
16:30
and external impact. And so it's not always so
16:35
overt or where everyone in the organization can
16:39
see the or feel the impact of what you do a lot
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of times. Even those internally, you know, the
16:45
top, your boss, your sideways. And so if you're
16:49
not, it is really up to you to communicate. Don't
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assume they know. They could. Let's assume they
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don't. It's really your own -ness, your responsibility
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to communicate what your team has accomplished.
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They should require that of you to push their
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accomplishments and make them exposed. Because
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when it's on paper, let me tell you. It's eye
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-opening, especially for someone on the outside
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looking in, your peers, the top president, CEO,
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when they see it on paper, it's like, oh, wow,
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okay, well, we thought you were busy, but this
17:27
is really confirming it. And thank you for pushing
17:30
things along, you know, in this way. What we
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do, what we lead, you may not realize the train
17:36
is moving because we're just so good at that,
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but when something goes wrong, They really know
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that. Yes. Miss a paycheck. Miss a quarterly
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reporting. Yes. They'll notice when things are
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wrong. That is so true. And I love how you are
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very intentional about, if I can say bragging
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and sharing about your team, because what I realized
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too is easier to get funding on training when
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people know what's going on. Absolutely. Yep.
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Yep. And you know, your team is really what make
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it happen. So. you really have to highlight the
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things that they've done. And now as a CFO, I
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know you mentioned you give them the tool, you
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give them the time. And as a new CFO, I'm like,
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whoo, my time is like, whoo, whoo. Where is the
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time? So what are some of the things that help
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you? still be involved in your team and involved
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with the rest of your organization when it comes
18:34
to time. Do you rely on consultant, executive
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coaches? What does it look like for you to be
18:41
able to achieve this, that balance? For me, I
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really achieve that balance through my one -on
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-one discussions I have with my staff during
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the month. That's just the time where I can give
18:51
them dedicated attention. And I always tell them,
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they rely on me to craft that agenda. That's
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why I share it. I'm like, no, this is your time.
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You have some things I may need to talk about
19:00
that come up during the week or the month, but
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this is really your time for you to share the
19:06
things you need to share. Get that time with
19:09
me for consulting, whatever it is. This is your
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time. So make the agenda what you need it to
19:14
be. And I also make sure that they understand
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I'm not just available during your one -on -one.
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Like if you need me outside of that time, you
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absolutely let me know. We can schedule a separate
19:27
call, a meeting, whatever that looks like. I
19:30
like how you said the one -on -one is your time.
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That's something that I wish I had known earlier,
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that how you use your one -on -one with your
19:40
boss, with your peers, like just that, that whole
19:43
thing about one -on -one is something you can
19:46
really use to accelerate your career. You really
19:49
can, yeah. And don't just have the one -on -ones
19:51
with your boss, with the up and down. Have them
19:54
with the sideways, your colleagues as well. Going
19:57
back to your question about being new in your
19:59
role. And I said, you know, have meetings with
20:02
everyone. Another thing that I did was make sure
20:04
that I had, I don't do them so much as now. I've
20:07
been almost three years here, but having that
20:10
routine discussion with that VP level that's
20:14
right below the C -suite, because you need to
20:17
understand the things that they're putting forward.
20:19
and that they're leading in those other divisions
20:22
and departments. And so I would have one -on
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-ones with them routinely, not just when I was
20:27
starting out learning. I had probably for the
20:30
first year, I had a monthly one -on -one with
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those VPs. Nice. That's awesome. With all that,
20:38
what would be like one piece of wisdom that you
20:42
want to pass along to the next generation of
20:45
leaders? Because I love your story. I love how
20:47
you talked about a mentor, really your boss that
20:50
spoke something into your life that got you to,
20:53
yes, I want to be CF when you went for it. What
20:56
are some of the things that you can share with,
20:58
you know, aspiring leaders? What I would say
21:01
is you can do it. Own what you know. What I mean
21:05
by that is when you really, really know something,
21:08
be steadfast in that. You got it. Don't let anyone
21:12
make you think that you don't have it, that you
21:15
don't have that knowledge because you do, and
21:17
just be strong in that right and know that you
21:21
can do it. Secondly, I would also say don't be
21:25
afraid to move to different industries. That's
21:28
really worked for me. I recommend that because
21:32
when you are in finance and accounting, that's
21:35
one beauty of being in this career field is you
21:38
can move in and out like a chameleon to different
21:42
industries and apply your skill set. Because
21:45
if you think about, we really are consultants,
21:48
internal consultants and strategic consultants.
21:50
And if you think about the consulting industry,
21:54
they consult with many clients in a lot of varied
21:58
industries because of why. people desire or seek
22:02
out the knowledge that you have about the craft,
22:06
not the industry so much. Wow. I love that. I
22:10
actually never saw it that way, but it is so
22:13
true because you bring with you that breadth,
22:15
I should say, of perspective to really any transactions.
22:20
Thank you so much for sharing. And my last question
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for you would be... What's your advice to other
22:25
CFOs, right? There's a lot of things going on,
22:28
whether it's with AI, with, oh my gosh, the economy.
22:33
You've been in banking, so you know the impact
22:36
of interest rates on so many things. What do
22:39
you think CFOs should pay attention to in this
22:42
environment? Wow, you know, you have to be data
22:46
-driven. I'm a data -driven CFO. I like to make
22:50
informed decisions by using data and not assumptions.
22:53
data -driven and solutions -based. Don't complain
22:56
about all the problems that you see and it has
22:58
to be fixed. Find and identify and bring those
23:01
solutions forward. Recommend the right solutions.
23:05
Those solutions may not always get the funding
23:07
or the prioritization. It is our job to make
23:12
the upper levels understand why we need to prioritize
23:16
them, but they may not always get the funding
23:17
because they're competing with a lot of other
23:19
things. bring those solutions forward and not
23:23
just point out what the problems are. That is
23:26
not going to get you far at all. You have to
23:29
bring the solutions. And the reason I mentioned
23:32
the data driving it is because that can't be
23:35
negotiated when you have that data that's informing
23:39
because that's a part of the package of identifying
23:43
that solution and getting the buy -in for the
23:44
solution. Can you drill a little deeper into
23:47
what you just said about data -driven and solution
23:50
-based? Like, can you provide an example, something
23:53
to really bring it home when you say a data -driven
23:57
and solution -based CFO? The data, looking at
24:01
all the reports and the different analytics that's
24:03
set up in your dashboard and all those things
24:05
that you're looking at and analyzing in the results.
24:08
Things that you're seeing in the market, because
24:10
CFOs need to study the market as well. You're
24:13
not just internal. looking at all that information
24:16
and what the data is that information is telling
24:19
us. For example, you're analyzing some monthly
24:21
results, even on the business intelligence side,
24:25
not just the financial data points. If our results
24:29
are telling us that clients that are leading
24:33
in one industry are doing really well, performing
24:36
well that year, do you know what we need to focus
24:38
on that industry more? What's happening in that
24:41
industry that we just sold? X amount of dollars
24:44
of product to these clients that's really carrying
24:47
us this year in this industry. What's going on
24:50
in that industry? So it helps you to focus on
24:53
the right things and make decisions based on
24:56
that information. Love it. Yes. That's what I
24:59
mean about data driven using that information
25:01
you have. That's awesome. And I love how you
25:05
say you have to know what's going on in the market
25:07
Not just your market, but what about the market
25:10
of your biggest customers, right? Because if
25:12
something goes wrong with them It's going to
25:15
come back to you and you won't be able to sell
25:17
to them. Correct. Yes So love that perspective.
25:21
Oh my goodness. Do you have anything else to
25:24
say because I took notes You cannot see my notes.
25:27
I took so many notes from this episode. Thank
25:30
you so much for being on the show. Any last thing
25:34
you would like to share with us today? I think
25:38
I left it on the table. Just say what you mean
25:41
and mean what you say. I'm always saying that.
25:44
Say what you mean and mean what you say. Wow.
25:47
That takes a lot of courage and confidence to
25:50
do that. Well, you know what? I'm glad you mentioned
25:54
that because female CFOs, we have to have that
26:00
confidence. is typically a position reserved
26:03
for males. And I will go so far as to say white
26:07
males. And so, you know, I'm an African -American
26:11
CFO, female, and my journey has not been always
26:16
an easy one. I do have that confidence to speak
26:21
on the things that I've shared with you. And
26:23
so that is why I really believe in saying what
26:27
you mean, but it's how you say it. But say what
26:29
you mean. and mean what you say. Wow. Love it.
26:34
And any advice now, now that you said, I told
26:36
you, the more you speak, the more I'll be asking
26:38
questions. Okay. Last, last question. Any advice
26:42
for the female CFOs now that you said, and it's
26:45
very true, our path is going to be different.
26:48
We wire differently and the roles are being traditionally
26:51
almost tailored fit for males. So how do you
26:55
build that confidence? How do you build the strength,
26:58
the courage, the boldness to do that? Well, you
27:01
got to start with knowing your stuff. Get that
27:03
craft. Really, really get all the education you
27:06
need, whatever that means for you, the licensing,
27:10
all of those things to help you to support your
27:14
path. You got to get the education and then you
27:17
got to really make sure you get that experience.
27:19
Don't give up on that. Putting yourself in the
27:22
roles and the positions to get that experience.
27:24
Put in the hours, put in the work. so that you're
27:27
seen. So once you have that craft really strong
27:31
and developed, then you're ready for those leadership
27:33
roles. You got to develop that skill set. That's
27:35
a whole other level. And getting leadership skills.
27:38
But it's a continuous education. Once you've
27:42
got those down and you're really strong and confident
27:46
in that right, you can confidently move forward
27:50
in that to arm yourself against those who will
27:53
try to make you think that you don't have it.
27:57
And when you know you do have it, you can easily
28:00
combat the naysayers. Oh, that's awesome. I love
28:03
it. Some of the things that helped me, at least
28:05
in my career, most recently was working with
28:08
an executive coach and having my finance sisterhood
28:12
community where we would help each other. Have
28:15
you also? have those kind of help, or are you
28:18
like, oh, I'm doing this? No, I've had executive
28:22
coaches along the way over the years. I've had
28:24
leadership development. I belong to organizations,
28:28
different financial or leadership organizations.
28:31
To bounce things off of, we don't know everything,
28:34
and it's always evolving. Learning is always
28:36
evolving. Oh, yeah. So, you know, I belong to
28:39
the Leadership CFO Council. Oh, nice. That is
28:42
a really, really great... organization for CFOs
28:47
to come together, get insights, bounce ideas
28:51
off of when new things emerge in the economy
28:55
within the organization. Like recently I was,
28:59
well maybe a year or so ago, I was developing
29:01
a deposit structure. It's time for us to implement
29:05
a deposit requirement for certain clients, for
29:07
certain size deals. In our industry, I wanted
29:11
to learn a little bit more about what's typical
29:13
for this type of structure in our industry. So
29:16
I started asking folks, you know, within the
29:18
groups, sending, you know, just in chats and
29:21
getting some insight that way. That type of network
29:24
and community can really help you even be stronger
29:28
when you're looking for reference points. You
29:30
got to have a community around you. Always belong
29:33
to some type of financial group. Another good
29:35
one that I belong, I was a member for four years
29:38
is Association for Finance Professionals. Oh
29:42
yes yes yes yes that's awesome really good group
29:46
yeah yes and yes i've been part of the cfo leadership
29:49
council just getting the the chat and seeing
29:52
the kind of questions others ask right um has
29:56
been very helpful yep you can get some nuggets
29:59
and takeaways yes things you never consider and
30:02
you're like I never thought about this issue
30:05
and I wouldn't know what to do if I was faced
30:07
with it. So definitely a great group. You're
30:10
so right. Thank you so much, Brenda. That's it
30:13
for today's episode of the Diary of the CFO.
30:15
Thank you so much, Brenda, for all the great
30:18
advice and insight you shared. I'm sure this
30:22
will definitely help. other leaders become better
30:25
leaders and be better at life. Thank you so much.
30:28
Thank you so much for being here. If you enjoyed
30:31
this episode as much as I did, don't forget to
30:34
subscribe, like and share it with family and
30:36
friends and actually leave a review. I'm going
30:38
to pause right here. I need reviews guys, please.
30:43
Don't forget to do that. And if you have any
30:46
topics that you'd like me to cover or any special
30:49
guests you'd like to recommend on this podcast,
30:52
please send an email to ask at the diary of a
30:55
CFO .com. Again, the email is ask at the diary
30:59
of the CFO .com. All right. Can't wait to see
31:02
you soon. Cheers.