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Texas Democrats Working Remote · Pod Save America

• 0:00
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• 1:52
  Speaker 3: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: I'm Jon Lovett.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: I'm Tommy Vitor.
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  Speaker 3: On today's show, we'll talk about Texas Democrats fleeing the
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: state to stop a Republican gerrymander. And one of those Democrats,
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: State Representative James Tallarico, talked to Lovett about what their
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: plan is. We'll also talk about the firm behind all
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: those spam fundraising texts, Trump backing off his campaign promise
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: to cover IVF, his decision to transfer Ghislaine Maxwell to
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: a minimum security facility, and his new favorite actress, Sidney Sweeney.
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  Speaker 3: But let's start with the fact that the economic data
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  Speaker 3: released by the U.S. government will no longer be as
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  Speaker 3: trustworthy because Donald Trump fired the economist who ran the
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: Bureau of Labor Statistics after we got a bad jobs
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: report on Friday. The report showed that the economy added
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: an estimated 73,000 jobs in July, about half of what
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: economists expected. And worse, the report showed that the economy
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: created 258,000 fewer jobs in May and June than originally estimated.
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: On top of that... We've had fairly anemic economic growth
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: in the first half of the year, and inflation has
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: started ticking up again. The reason for all of this
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: is not a huge mystery. As the AP put it, quote,
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: This undoubtedly led to some self-reflection on Trump's part, who
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: promptly decided to shoot the messenger. Dr. Erica McIntarfer was
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: confirmed by the Senate to lead the BLS in 2024
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: by a vote of 86 to 8. Two of those
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: yes votes were from Marco Rubio and J.D. Vance. But sadly,
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: she had to go because she and all the nonpartisan
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  Speaker 3: economists who work for her didn't count up the number
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  Speaker 3: of jobs in a way that made Trump look good.
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: Here he is Sunday offering his trademark nonfactual explanation.
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  Speaker 4: We'll be announcing a new statistician sometime over the next three,
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  Speaker 4: four days. We had no confidence. I mean, the numbers
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: were ridiculous, what she announced. If you remember, just before
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  Speaker 4: the election, this woman came out with these phenomenal numbers
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  Speaker 4: on Biden's.
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  Speaker 3: Economy.
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  Speaker 4: Phenomenal numbers. And then right after the election, they announced
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: that those numbers were wrong. And that's what they did
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  Speaker 4: the other day. So it's a scam, in my opinion.
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  Speaker 4: My opinion is just It's just additional scam.
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  Speaker 1: Was he speaking to a giant swarm of bees? What
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: was that?
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  Speaker 3: Did he say additional scam?
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  Speaker 2: It's additional scam.
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  Speaker 3: Additional? Is that like addition versus subtraction kind of thing?
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
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  Speaker 2: I don't know. I think it's just, hey, new scam
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  Speaker 2: just dropped.
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  Speaker 3: Also, what he said there was completely inaccurate. They announced
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  Speaker 3: the revision in August of 2024, which is well before
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  Speaker 3: the presidential election. So he's just not... He's just talking
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  Speaker 3: about anything that's real there. Kevin Hassett, the ostensibly qualified
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  Speaker 3: economist who runs Trump's National Economic Council, he's taken a
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  Speaker 3: few swings at explaining the situation over the last few days.
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  Speaker 3: Here he is on the Sunday shows. And then on Monday,
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  Speaker 3: apparently forgot his talking points. Let's listen.
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  Speaker 5: Does the administration have any evidence that it was rigged,
• 5:02
  Speaker 5: as the president said? And will you be presenting that
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  Speaker 5: to the American public?
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  Speaker 6: Well, the evidence is that there have been a bunch
• 5:08
  Speaker 6: of revisions that could appear to partisans. Oh, I mean,
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  Speaker 6: the revisions are hard evidence.
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  Speaker 7: The markets seem to believe the revisions in the numbers
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  Speaker 7: more than they believe the original numbers. That's why you
• 5:19
  Speaker 7: saw bond yields tumble on Friday. Are you in agreement
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  Speaker 7: with that? Do you think we are starting to see
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  Speaker 7: a real slowdown in the jobs market?
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  Speaker 6: Yeah, I think the jobs numbers were slower than we expected.
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  Speaker 6: I think that one of the explanations for revisions is
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  Speaker 6: they have more complete data.
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  Speaker 3: And so I think it is likely that the.
• 5:38
  Speaker 6: Revisions are a better read of the data if the
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  Speaker 6: data are not being manipulated.
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  Speaker 3: So I've lost track. Were the jobs numbers rigged or
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: were they bad?
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  Speaker 2: It's strange to have someone just forget himself and actually
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: kind of answer the questions if Mitt Romney were president.
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  Speaker 3: Within the span of 24 hours.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: Kevin has to get trotted out to defend the most
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: hilariously stupid shit. He was also on ABC News when
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: Trump slapped tariffs on Brazil because they were mad that
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: Brazil was prosecuting the former president for leading their own
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: version on January 6th. You guys want to take a
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: crack at explaining why this is such a big deal?
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Crack away. Crack away, cracker.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: That's inappropriate. Listen, maybe you're too hooked on woke jaguar.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: but we're not saying that kind of thing.
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: We will get to woke Jaguar.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: So in June of 2020, come back with me, take
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: a trip down memory lane with me.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: I didn't like it then.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: In June of 2020, the job numbers come out for
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: May and they're surprisingly good, right? They're not good. They're terrible,
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: but they're not as bad as they thought. And the
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: report said that firms had added 2.5 million jobs back,
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: that the unemployment rate was only 13%. But even in
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: the moment, The Bureau of Labor Statistics said, hey, we
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: think we're having a problem collecting data. We think that
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: our Census Bureau takers are putting the wrong numbers in.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: The actual employment rate is probably higher than 16%. Trump
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: didn't threaten to fire the head of the Bureau of
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: Labor Statistics. He didn't say, hey, everybody, be careful. Some
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: of this data may be exaggerated. He was ecstatic. He
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: said the economy is roaring back. Larry Kudlow said that
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: there was a boom, right? And Republicans at the time
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: used this error to slow down any hope of doing
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: more stimulus. Democrats had passed a stimulus bill. A lot
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: of unemployment aid was running out. A lot of emergency
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: measures running out. Democrats were like, we need to help.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: And Trump was like, no, the numbers are amazing. So
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  Speaker 2: we don't need to do this anymore. It delayed aid
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  Speaker 2: for another six months, even though people were in crisis.
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  Speaker 2: We make decisions based on this data. If people are
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: losing jobs, they're losing jobs whether or not the data
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  Speaker 2: shows it or not. They are being hurt whether or
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: not climate change is real, whether you believe.
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  Speaker 3: In it or not.
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  Speaker 2: And Trump doesn't care about how to respond to the
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  Speaker 2: actual facts of what's happening on the ground, what he
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  Speaker 2: can do to make the economy better, what he can
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  Speaker 2: do to bring costs down, what he can do to
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  Speaker 2: increase the number of jobs. He just wants the numbers
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  Speaker 2: to be better. And he's doing that across the board.
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  Speaker 2: It is extremely dangerous to no longer be able to
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  Speaker 2: rely on economic data because we can't trust that this
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  Speaker 2: administration will release any information that puts Trump in a
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  Speaker 2: bad light.
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  Speaker 8: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, this is supposed to be pretty wonky stuff, right? Unemployment, wages, inflation,
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  Speaker 1: like boring data. And everyone relies on this, the Fed,
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  Speaker 1: the Treasury Department, the White House, Congress, financial markets, banks,
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  Speaker 1: small businesses. And so they don't expect the BLS to
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  Speaker 1: be perfect, but they expect the process and the data
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  Speaker 1: itself to be nonpartisan and independent. And if you undercut
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  Speaker 1: that independence, that's a huge problem going forward. Because there
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: have been people that have called the process into question,
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: like Steve Bannon and has been on this beat for
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: a long time. He's always said the BLS is partisan
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  Speaker 1: and it's rigged, but the experts usually understand that this
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: is good data and it's real. If the experts start
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: to question the data underpinning the US economy, that's a
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  Speaker 1: huge problem because the world could decide, I don't know, man,
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: like maybe does the BLS have the courage to put
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: out data that President Trump doesn't like in the future?
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: And like, if you're, if you're like the world, the
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: world could look at our economy and say, there is just,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: too much political risk baked in. It's the tariffs. It's
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: the BLS data. It's Trump's interference with the Fed. What
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: if he fires Jerome Powell? And they could just decide like,
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: I don't know, man, should we buy treasuries? Should we
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: put money in the stock market? Let's just move on.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Let's go invest somewhere else. And historically speaking, that ends
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: very badly. We could talk about the Greek example. We
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: could talk about Argentina. But the long story short is
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  Speaker 1: when you mess with economic data, it leads to enormous pain,
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: both within your country, but also systemically.
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: And just in case people don't know how this all works,
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: Bureau of Labor Statistics, obviously the head of it is
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: appointed by the president and confirmed by the Senate. That
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: is the person that Donald Trump fired. But the rest
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: of the Bureau is just a bunch of nonpartisan economists.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: And they follow very strict statistical methodological standards. They are
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: reviewed by outside experts. They are transparent, the standards they use.
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  Speaker 3: So none of this is like a black box. And
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: what they do is for the jobs numbers, they do
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: a survey of businesses all across the country. And then
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: for the unemployment rate, they do a survey of households,
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: of who's working in the household. And the reason that
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: sometimes you get revisions in the data is because a
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: lot of companies and some households don't answer the survey
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: until after the survey is closed. So sometimes people are
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: just late getting their survey responses. So we've had revisions
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: dating back to 1979 when this whole system was first
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: set up. So it's not unusual at all. It's a
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  Speaker 3: much bigger revision over the last two months now. than
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: at any time since COVID, but also we have had
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: a shock to the economy with tariffs. We have immigration
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: raids reducing the workforce. We've had massive government job cuts
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: because of Doge and other Trump actions. So there's been
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: a lot going on that wouldn't make two months of
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: fairly large revisions totally out of the ordinary. But to
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  Speaker 3: your point, Tommy, the reason this is so important like
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: you said, you've got people who want to maybe invest
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: in the United States, who might want to buy treasury bonds. Also,
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: Jerome Powell and the Fed, they're going to set the,
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: they're going to decide whether they're going to do a
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: rate cut, what the interest rates are going to be.
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: If they can't make that decision based on the data
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  Speaker 3: and trust the data, then that's going to be a
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: huge problem. Also, by the way, cost of living adjustment
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: for social security is based on this economic data and
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: unemployment insurance benefits too. So if Because as you mentioned, Lovett,
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: it's not just jobs numbers. It's also inflation that comes
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: out of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, inflation numbers. So
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: if Trump gets someone in there who gives him an
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: inflation number that's lower than it really is, the government's
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: not going to adjust people's Social Security benefits to keep
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: up with the cost of living, nor are they going
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: to adjust unemployment benefits to keep up with the cost
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: of living. So people are going to get fucked with
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: unemployment benefits and Social Security if the inflation numbers are wrong.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: If this were a one-off, if Donald Trump was a calm,
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: rational actor who had long believed there was a problem
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: with the data collection, and this was a culmination of
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: his longstanding beef in no particular direction with the way
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: the government measures statistics, fine. That's not what's going on here.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: A lot of people pretending that that might be what's
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: going on here, that Trump has always felt as though
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: the Bureau of Labor Statistics was making mistakes.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: We know what's going on.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump has launched a war on how the government
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: collects and disseminates information. In March, Trump's Commerce Secretary disbanded
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: the Federal Economic Statistics Advisory Committee along with another outside group.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: Very wonky stuff. That group exists as a panel of
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: outside experts. It exists for one purpose, to meet to
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: talk about how the government can do a better job
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: of accurately measuring economic information. Lutnick told them that their
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: mission had been, quote, fulfilled. Alex McGillis at ProPublica reported
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: on all the ways in which Doge, targeted data collection,
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: specifically data on drug use, pregnancy, maternal mortality, adoption, accidental deaths, HIV,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: other sexually transmitted diseases, educational outcomes, even just weather balloons
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: not going up as frequently, something that came up when
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: there were those terrible floods in Texas. In Trump's first term,
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: researchers at the USDA reported that Trump's trade war with
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: China was devastating farmers, among other reports that embarrassed the administration.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: What do they do? They take the USDA economic researchers,
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: they move their office under the political wing of the agency,
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: and then they go further. They announce that they're physically
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: moving the researchers' offices to Kansas City. And so they
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: told a bunch of economists in D.C., oh, we don't
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: like your reports. You can quit or you can move
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: your whole family to Kansas City. And a lot of
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: them quit as a result. But the reality was the reality.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: We now know how devastating Trump's trade war was for farmers.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: Bankruptcies went up. Calls to suicide hotlines went up. He
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: gets angry because the headlines are bad, but the actual
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: facts remain the facts. The damage is the damage. He
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: doesn't care about the outcome. He cares about the story.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: And all these people are now going around trying to
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: claim that Donald Trump is just trying to clean up
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: our economic reports, when meanwhile, we're going to end up
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: in a situation where every week we're getting a new
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: story about how our chocolate rations are up, and yet,
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: no chocolate.
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, so he's, on one hand, by doing this,
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: he's going to cause a lot of damage. On the
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: other hand, he's not going to fix his problem because...
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: people are still going to be feeling pain if the
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: economy takes a turn.
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: That's what doesn't make sense about this. Why freak out now?
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: The midterms are a long ways away. You just passed
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: your big economic package. Like the stock market is ripping.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: I just, I don't understand why, I guess maybe just
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: kind of like take out the trash now, like make
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: your structural reform now because you watch Steve Bannon on
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: the War Room rant about this and it inspired you
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: to make a move, but it's kind of just petulant. Also,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, it came right after he I believe, tweeted
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: that he was repositioning two nuclear subs because he got
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: in a Twitter fight with Dmitry Medvedev, the former president
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: of Russia. Yeah.
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: And today he's like watching CNBC and he's tweeting about
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: or truthing about Elizabeth Warren. He's yelling at her. He's
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: just he's I think the Epstein thing is really shaking him.
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: And the look, look. When you look at the last
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: two months of economic data that was revised, the jobs
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: numbers were revised, I think he is thinking, and so
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: probably his administration too, like, oh, maybe the economy is
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: softening here.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: It's a narrative thing, yeah.
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: It's like, you might as well fire the BLS person
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: now so we can start cooking the jobs numbers as
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: things get bad.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: Better to do it now than next year, right, as
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: you're getting closer to the election. It's, by the way,
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: why they disbanded those panels. They don't want anyone from
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: the outside looking in and seeing what they're doing, right?
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: It's part of a plan. They're doing this across the board.
• 16:02
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• 16:41
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• 16:43
  Speaker 3: worry about. Charlie takes high vitamins, has for a couple years,
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: and he thinks they taste great. And they give him
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: all the vitamins he doesn't get from being a picky eater,
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: like they said.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: The other day he solved the twin prime conjecture. which
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: is the question of whether there's infinitely many primes P
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: such that P plus two is also prime. For example,
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: three plus two is five, 11 plus two is 13,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: et cetera. You know, he solved it.
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: Charlie has taught me things about the solar system and
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: the Titanic sinking that I had never known in my
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: entire 44 years on this earth. So I will not
• 17:17
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• 17:18
  Speaker 1: The Navier-Stokes existence and smoothness thing.
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: Again, this comes directly from high vitamins.
• 17:25
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• 17:26
  Speaker 3: So just letting you know. Are you tired of battling
• 17:28
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• 18:12
  Speaker 3: kids the full-body nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults.
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: All right, and another sign that democracy in America isn't
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: exactly alive and well The Republican governor of Texas, Greg Abbott,
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: has threatened to arrest and or remove from office more
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: than 50 Democratic legislators unless they let Abbott fulfill Trump's
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: request to squeeze five more Republican House seats out of
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: Texas just in time for the 2026 midterms. Abbott has
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: called a special session so the Republican majority can redraw
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: the already gerrymandered maps. But the Democrats fled the state
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: in order to prevent the session from taking place since
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: the Texas Constitution says that two-thirds of the legislature must
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: be present to do business. Abbott then released a letter
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: claiming that if Democrats weren't back by the time the
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: session began on Monday, they could be removed from office.
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: He also claims Democrats could face felony charges if they
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: tried to fundraise in order to pay the $ 500 a
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: day fine that comes with missing a session. Most of
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: the quorum busters went to Illinois, where they were welcomed
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: by Governor J.B. Pritzker. Just before we recorded this, Lovett
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: spoke with one of those Democrats, State Representative James Tallarico,
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: about his decision to leave and what happens next. Here's
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: that interview.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Pond Save America, Representative James Talrico of Texas.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: First of all, what can you tell us about where
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: you are?
• 19:33
  Speaker 5: Well, I'm in a nondescript hotel conference room. That's all
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: I can tell you. We are in Illinois, and it's
• 19:39
  Speaker 5: appropriate because this is the land of Lincoln. And Abraham
• 19:42
  Speaker 5: Lincoln actually broke quorum back in 1840 when he was
• 19:46
  Speaker 5: a state senator by jumping out of the window of
• 19:48
  Speaker 5: the Illinois state capitol. Thankfully, I didn't have to jump
• 19:51
  Speaker 5: out of any windows in Texas. But we are joining
• 19:55
  Speaker 5: a long tradition in America of standing up to bullies,
• 20:00
  Speaker 5: of speaking truth to power, of causing good trouble. And
• 20:03
  Speaker 5: I know my colleagues and I are proud to do
• 20:05
  Speaker 5: this work, regardless of what consequences may come.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: So let's talk about that. Your governor says you've forfeited
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: your office, have you?
• 20:14
  Speaker 5: No, I'm still doing my job, even though I'm not
• 20:16
  Speaker 5: in the state of Texas. I was actually doing constituent
• 20:19
  Speaker 5: services this morning with my team from this hotel room.
• 20:23
  Speaker 5: And we're also trying to shine a national spotlight on
• 20:27
  Speaker 5: this Trump redistricting power grab that's happening in Texas, because
• 20:30
  Speaker 5: it doesn't just affect Texans, it literally affects every American.
• 20:35
  Speaker 5: Trump is trying to insulate himself from the will of
• 20:38
  Speaker 5: the public. He's trying to shield himself from the voters
• 20:41
  Speaker 5: and from accountability. And if we allow that to happen,
• 20:44
  Speaker 5: if we let power go unchecked in this country, I
• 20:48
  Speaker 5: am worried about where it will lead. And so that's
• 20:50
  Speaker 5: why my colleagues and I felt we needed to take
• 20:52
  Speaker 5: this dramatic step of leaving the state and breaking quorum.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: So as you noted, there's a proud tradition of this
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: in our country and in Texas. This has happened before
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: As far as I can tell, this is the first
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: time a governor, and this has happened to Republican governors
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: in the past as well, has asserted that somehow he
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: has the power to remove legislators from office. Now, the
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: Attorney General, Ken Paxton, said that that would be challenging.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: What do you make of that threat?
• 21:24
  Speaker 5: It's very consistent because the whole point of these rigged
• 21:28
  Speaker 5: maps is to challenge rob Texans of their ability to
• 21:32
  Speaker 5: elect the candidates of their choice. And so now Greg
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: Abbott is literally trying to remove the people's elected official
• 21:40
  Speaker 5: from their office. This is a page right outside of
• 21:45
  Speaker 5: Trump's authoritarian playbook, and he does it with less charm
• 21:50
  Speaker 5: and less humor and less charisma than Trump, but it
• 21:53
  Speaker 5: is still just as dangerous and we should reject it. Now, again,
• 21:57
  Speaker 5: This is not a Democrat thing. All of us should
• 21:59
  Speaker 5: reject it, whether you're a Democrat, an independent or a Republican.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like presumably if your voters are unhappy with your
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: decision to do this on their behalf, even though you're
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: doing it for the right reasons, they have many. There's
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: an opportunity for for you to be removed from office
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: in an election.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 22:16
  Speaker 5: And that's how people change their government is they elect
• 22:18
  Speaker 5: new people to represent them. And that's what these maps threaten.
• 22:23
  Speaker 5: And again, it doesn't just threaten it for Democrats. It
• 22:25
  Speaker 5: threatens it for everyone. And so it's why we've got
• 22:29
  Speaker 5: to push back against this power grab. I should say
• 22:32
  Speaker 5: that gerrymandering happens across the country and it does happen
• 22:36
  Speaker 5: in blue states just like red states. But this is
• 22:39
  Speaker 5: a whole nother level. Usually we adjust district boundaries at
• 22:44
  Speaker 5: the beginning of a decade right after a census comes
• 22:46
  Speaker 5: out because you have to adjust lines based on population.
• 22:50
  Speaker 5: But Trump has asked Texas Republicans to redraw the maps
• 22:54
  Speaker 5: they just drew in 2021 so that he can get
• 22:58
  Speaker 5: five more seats. And it's a little reminiscent of when
• 23:01
  Speaker 5: he called the Georgia Secretary of State and asked him
• 23:04
  Speaker 5: to find 11,000 votes. Thankfully, Georgia Republicans said no. Texas
• 23:09
  Speaker 5: Republicans said, how about Thursday? And it's why my colleagues
• 23:14
  Speaker 5: and I felt the need to leave our beloved state,
• 23:16
  Speaker 5: break quorum, and stop this power grab from going through.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: You know, you're being threatened by the governor. A map
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: would have to be in place or be picked by
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: December to be in place for 2026. How does this
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: play out?
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: What happens now?
• 23:31
  Speaker 5: Well, we're taking this one special session at a time.
• 23:34
  Speaker 5: And the special session in Texas is going to last
• 23:37
  Speaker 5: two more weeks. So all of my colleagues, there's 57
• 23:40
  Speaker 5: of us in total, we have all agreed to stay
• 23:42
  Speaker 5: out of the state capitol for the next two weeks
• 23:45
  Speaker 5: to kill these maps and stop them from going through. Now,
• 23:49
  Speaker 5: the governor can call another special session. He may, and
• 23:53
  Speaker 5: if he does, we will assess our options. But I
• 23:55
  Speaker 5: am hopeful that some of the threats from blue state governors,
• 24:00
  Speaker 5: some threats of retaliation, I'm hoping that can convince Texas Republicans,
• 24:05
  Speaker 5: maybe even Donald Trump, to walk back from the brink
• 24:08
  Speaker 5: because they see that the gains they could make in
• 24:10
  Speaker 5: Texas could be wiped out in a state like California. Again,
• 24:14
  Speaker 5: the goal is not for every state to be gerrymandered.
• 24:17
  Speaker 5: The goal is ultimately to take politics out of this
• 24:20
  Speaker 5: process because It is the rot at the core of
• 24:23
  Speaker 5: our broken political system. But Democrats can't unilaterally disarm. We
• 24:27
  Speaker 5: have to stand up to bullies. We've got to look
• 24:29
  Speaker 5: them in the eye and not blink.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: So I want to ask you about that, because there
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: has been this push for fair maps. A lot of
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: prominent Democrats got behind it. Some of them are sticking
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: with that and saying, no, no, we can't play this
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: game the way Republicans do. Others are saying we have
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: to fight fire with fire. Were Democrats who embraced nonpartisan redistricting?
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: Were they fighting with a hand tied behind their back?
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: That's what Governor Kathy Hochul said today.
• 24:55
  Speaker 5: Well, I just want to say I am proud to
• 24:57
  Speaker 5: be a part of a political party that still has principles,
• 25:01
  Speaker 5: that still has a positive vision for what this democracy
• 25:04
  Speaker 5: could be, how we could fix this democracy so it
• 25:07
  Speaker 5: can actually work for regular people. I am proud of that.
• 25:10
  Speaker 5: But we can't let that vision get in the way
• 25:13
  Speaker 5: of the current reality. And right now, one party is
• 25:16
  Speaker 5: attempting to cheat. by redrawing the maps in the middle
• 25:20
  Speaker 5: of a decade, they are cheating. It's like two football
• 25:23
  Speaker 5: teams coming out of the locker room at halftime and
• 25:26
  Speaker 5: the team that's ahead says they want to change the
• 25:28
  Speaker 5: rules for the second half so they can win the game.
• 25:31
  Speaker 5: All of us would recognize that as blatant cheating. And
• 25:35
  Speaker 5: if they're going to cheat, we're not going to play.
• 25:38
  Speaker 5: And if they're going to cheat, all rules are off
• 25:40
  Speaker 5: the table. And that means blue states are free to
• 25:43
  Speaker 5: respond with retaliation. But this is not the vision. You know,
• 25:47
  Speaker 5: having a descending spiral of partisanship is not what we want.
• 25:50
  Speaker 5: We ultimately want fair maps and fair elections for every
• 25:53
  Speaker 5: state and for every American.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: So you're apparently going to be fined $ 500 per missed
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: day of the session. Abbott says he'll bring felony charges
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: if anyone fund-races to cover that. What are we going
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: to do? What are we doing about this expense here?
• 26:09
  Speaker 5: Well, my colleagues and I are going to pay these
• 26:10
  Speaker 5: fines ourselves. And I should say, state representatives in Texas
• 26:17
  Speaker 5: We're part time. We earn $ 600 a month before taxes
• 26:21
  Speaker 5: for our work in the legislature, which means we have
• 26:23
  Speaker 5: to have day jobs to make ends meet and to
• 26:26
  Speaker 5: pay our bills. We're leaving those day jobs to break quorum.
• 26:31
  Speaker 5: We also have colleagues who are leaving young children, some
• 26:33
  Speaker 5: that are leaving aging parents. So this is not a
• 26:36
  Speaker 5: decision we made lightly. And we knew there were going
• 26:39
  Speaker 5: to be consequences, financial, political, possibly even legal consequences. But
• 26:45
  Speaker 5: we're willing to pay those because we believe so strongly
• 26:48
  Speaker 5: that this power grab in Texas is a threat to
• 26:51
  Speaker 5: the future of our republic.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: So obviously you hope that Abbott and the Republicans back down,
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: but they may not. What kind of arrangements did you make,
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: did some of your colleagues make, for this to potentially
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: last for not days, not weeks, but potentially months?
• 27:09
  Speaker 5: We recognize that. And we know going in that this
• 27:13
  Speaker 5: could be longer than two weeks. We're trying not to
• 27:15
  Speaker 5: get too lost in the hypotheticals, because who knows what
• 27:18
  Speaker 5: will happen in two weeks? Who knows what Texas Republicans
• 27:21
  Speaker 5: are going to do, what Donald Trump's going to do,
• 27:23
  Speaker 5: what blue state governors are going to do, what the
• 27:25
  Speaker 5: American people are going to do. Part of the goal
• 27:28
  Speaker 5: of this quorum break was to inspire action across the country.
• 27:32
  Speaker 5: I do think that courage is contagious. And I think
• 27:36
  Speaker 5: once people see someone standing up, it makes it easier
• 27:39
  Speaker 5: for them to stand up, whether that is them volunteering
• 27:43
  Speaker 5: whether it's them protesting, whether it's them donating to this
• 27:47
  Speaker 5: quorum break to help us fund the food and the
• 27:49
  Speaker 5: travel and lodgings, that is a form of action that can,
• 27:54
  Speaker 5: I think, push back against this kind of power grab.
• 27:57
  Speaker 5: And we're going to have to see that action multiplied
• 27:59
  Speaker 5: a lot in the next election if we're going to
• 28:02
  Speaker 5: protect the democratic process and fix this democracy going forward.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: Representative Tallarico, thanks for stopping by. I appreciate it. Good
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: luck wherever you are.
• 28:10
  Speaker 5: Thanks for having me.
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: That was Representative James Tallarico. What do you guys think
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: about this whole situation? Tommy?
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: I think we're in a tough spot. I mean, the
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: ball is firmly rolling in Texas, even if it doesn't
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: get done in this special session, because these guys are
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: out of town. Abbott can just call another one. Republicans
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: in Texas have pulled the ship before. They didn't really
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: face any political consequences. Five seats is a huge deal
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: in the midterms. So I wish we lived in a
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: world where Texas voters across the political spectrum were outraged
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: by the fact that Republicans... are more focused on, they
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: called a special session to do two things, flood relief
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: and redistricting. They put redistricting first. They're not prioritizing the
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: actual needs of their states, but I just don't think
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: we live in that world and have it as a leverage.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: And these lawmakers have day jobs and the, you know,
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: families and obligations that can't be on the run forever. Like,
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It feels like we're in a bad spot.
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: They just have to hold out till December. They can't.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: It's August 4th. It's look, the three months, it's very like, it's,
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: These are day jobs. These are human beings.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: It's such an old school and practical... We got rid
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: of the real filibuster, so we have these virtual filibusters,
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: so everything is game theory and gamesmanship. But this is
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: a real... Why don't they do this for other votes
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: they're going to lose? Because it's really hard to do.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: You have to physically leave the state. You may not
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: be able to come back until a special session is over,
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: and Abbott can just call another special session. There's a
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: lot of ways these have ended. These have happened in
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: Texas in the past. They've happened in other states in
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: the past. Sometimes you get concessions and people come back.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: Sometimes your bluff is called and they just wait you out.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: And eventually people have to go home because that's where
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: they keep things like, you know, their families and jobs
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: and life.
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: The jobs thing is the tough one because... It's a
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: part-time job, Texas, the legislature. And also now you're paying
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: $ 500 a day, which they say they're going to pay
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: out of their pockets because, you know, he's threatening that
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: any kind of money they take is for bribery. And
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: that's how they could probably get the feds involved. Right
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: now they can't get the feds involved in being in
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: the other state right now.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: Until Donald Trump's like makes a call to ICE or
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: his buddy Kash Patel at the FBI. Like I wouldn't
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: surprise me.
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: What does Jalarico say about what they're?
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: He's basically like they're taking it. They're paying it themselves.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: They're all trying not to think past this special session.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: They're putting a lot of hope on the fact that
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: this is creating public pressure. They're putting a lot of
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: hope on the fact that blue state governors are stepping
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: up to threaten retaliation. But a lot of it is
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: just hoping that Abbott will back down, which doesn't seem
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: particularly likely, and not thinking more. I asked him specifically,
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: are you prepared to do this through December? And he
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: just wouldn't go beyond saying they're doing it through this
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: special session and not trying to be in hypotheticals.
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: And I should say the reason I mentioned December, the
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: reason December is getting thrown around is they would have
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: to redraw the maps by December in order to get
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: it done in time for the midterms in 26 for
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: the ballots and everything else. So if they could hold
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: out to December, but you're right, it's three months. So
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: that's the tough part.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: And then I think, look, the hope is that, you know,
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: this OnlyFans, they're all starting, is going to generate the
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: revenue because there's no crime against that. To be clear,
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: like Abbott.
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: I guess they could take it. Yeah, I guess they
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: could take other jobs.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: They could take other jobs.
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: Or they could work remote. Yeah.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: Some of them I'm sure can work remote. You have
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: to have a hybrid work model, whatever their real day
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: jobs are. But Abbott's threat here, Democrats did this in Texas.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: Rick Perry was the governor. And there are all kinds
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: of threats and people say they're going to be punished
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: when they return to the legislature. But no one said
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: that they could suddenly forfeit their jobs or that the
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: governor could usurp the power of the voters and suddenly
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: remove people from office. That wasn't an option in the
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: past that they suddenly discovered because of some non-binding opinion
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: by Attorney General Ken Paxton that even Ken Paxton says
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: the governor's reading too much into.
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: And it does seem like that threat, the remove them
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: from office threat, is a bluff. I think that the
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: best case for this is not going to work is
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: they have to get home at some point. But not
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: only is there no binding legal opinion that he can
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: remove them from office, But they would have to file
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: that in all 50 districts, some of which are very
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: Democratic districts. And then they would have to hold special
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: elections to, you know, replace them. And all of this
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: has to get funded by December. So I think that's
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: pretty bullshit. The whole, like, we're going to remove you
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: from office thing. And then the felony thing for the bribes,
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: who knows? That's where you get into the feds.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: But this is where, like, Paxton is going further, right?
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: He's going further by doing this mid-decade redistricting. But he's
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: also going further by, like, trying to make this... illegal
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: when it is not illegal to break quorum. What they're
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: doing is not a crime.
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: Texas Supreme Court has already decided that.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: And so he's frustrated by the fact that what they're
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: doing has been not just historically justified, but also just
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: not breaking the law. So he's looking for any excuse
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: he can find to try to prosecute these people.
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So it seems like the most likely way for
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: Democrats to fight back is Democrats in other states to
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: do this themselves. We have talked about this a little bit. Newsom, obviously,
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: Tommy and I talked to Newsom about this and sort
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: of laid out his plan. here, which is maybe calling
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: a special election to change the Constitution. Kathy Hochul is
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: now saying that she might try to do something, though
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: it appears she can't really do anything until 2027.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't sound like they can do anything. Changes
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: through their process would take until 2027, which doesn't help
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: us in the midterms.
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so she's talking a big game, Kathy Hochul. And look,
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: maybe she could be right about Yeah, if she can't
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: get it done in the midterms but they do this,
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: she's going to go ahead and try to do it
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: for the future. But it's not going to help with
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: the midterms. And then J.B. Pritzker.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: That's a tough one.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: I think our real options are Gavin Newsom. We talked
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: about the options he has to go on offense. There's
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: a chance to pick up some seats in Illinois. There's
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: maybe one seat in Maryland. I think Governor Wes Moore
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: is deciding whether to go to his legislature to talk
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: to them about trying to change the maps and get
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: us another seat. But there's a long-term perspective. problem that
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: could be even bigger. Like our buddy Brian Tyler Cohen
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: interviewed a democratic lawyer named Mark Elias a couple of
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: days ago, where he kind of laid this all out.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: And the gist though, is the Supreme court is reviewing
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: whether section two of the voting rights act violates the constitution.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: And if it does, if it gets struck down, Republicans
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: could redraw dozens of congressional districts and get rid of
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: like all of these black majority districts, especially in the South,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: which means you have a state like Alabama that could
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: go from having five Republicans to Democrats and to just
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: seven Republican districts. So there's like this massive, scary, scary
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: threat looming down the pike here if the Supreme Court
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: goes the wrong way.
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the long-term challenge here is that Democrats just don't
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: control as many state legislatures as Republicans do.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: And look, I mean, what's happening in Texas is kind
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: of enabled by Donald Trump's recent success with Latino voters
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: and their ability to rethink how to draw those districts
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: based on that success.
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: And now that might be a reason for optimism or
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: that they have miscalculated. I think Dan and I were
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: talking about this. I can't remember who I talked to
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: about anything anymore. But, you know, these are like Trump
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: plus 10, Trump plus 15 districts. But that is in
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: the presidential election and in the midterms, even in the midterms.
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: Dan was pointing this out that Beto lost to Abbott
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: in 2022, Beto O'Rourke. He still won the Latino vote
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: by like 15, 20 points more than Kamala Harris did
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: in 2024. So, you know, it could screw them for
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: the midterms. But either way, if you're starting to go nationwide,
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: it's it's pretty bad.
• 35:37
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, look, also, more broadly, they can redraw the maps.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: They can also accidentally draw Republicans out of their seat
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: is if they try to over gerrymander, try to make
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: too many seats for themselves based on a projection for
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: 2024 or just not understanding the electorate. All of a sudden,
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: in a wave election, which hopefully we can generate In
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: the midterms, all of a sudden they got a little
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: too cocky and a little too greedy, thought they could
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: draw themselves a couple extra seats. And then those Republican
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: plus three, plus five, plus seven seats all of a
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: sudden swing and they've lost some races. I mean, the
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: deeper problem here is Democrats live in too few places too.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: We have really big, big majorities in these concentrated areas
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: and Republicans have still large, but slimmer majorities in tons
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: of rural places. And that gives Republicans more of an
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: ability to draw these favorable maps.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: But in Texas specifically, I think the new proposed districts
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: make 30 districts places where Trump won by 10 points,
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: which is up from 25. So that's a lot. And
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: also just in Texas, Biden won Latinos by 17 points
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: in 2020. Trump won by 10 in 2024. It's a
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: big swing. Probably will not swing like that without Donald
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: Trump at the top of the ballot. I totally agree
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: with that. But I do think in Texas, it feels
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: like they're pretty well protected with this version of the
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: gerrymander and it's uh it's tough i don't know we'll
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: see not for midterms is much different but um but
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: we'll say trump plus 10 is tough trouble yeah well
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: two yeah three or trump plus 10 two or trump
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: plus 15 or it might be the other way the
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: 15s seem pretty tough but the 10s 10 in a
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: midterm dan was saying he thinks that could be over
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: all right i'll take i'll take hopeful ban Pod Save
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• 38:58
  Speaker 3: In other Democratic campaign news, it turns out that all
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: those fundraising texts and emails we love to complain about
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: aren't just incredibly annoying. They also may be incredibly ineffective
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: unless you're a big consulting firm that takes a huge
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: cut of the money. Over the weekend, an investigation from
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: independent data journalist Adam Bonica at the On Data and
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: Democracy Substack found that a single firm, Mothership Strategies, founded
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: by former digital staffers for the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee,
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: is behind most of these spam packs. According to Adams'
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: review of FEC filings, Mothership has taken in $ 678 million
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: from individual donors since 2018, and they've pocketed at least
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: $ 159 million of that, reporting it as, quote, consulting fees.
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: Even more depressing, of that $ 678 million, only $ 11 million
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: has gone to actual campaigns, candidates, or Democratic committees. That's
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: two cents on the dollar. We reached out to Mothership
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: to ask about this and got the following quote. This
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: substack is completely inaccurate and contains numerous false and misleading
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: claims about Mothership and our clients. The truth is that
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: Mothership supports Democratic campaigns, PACs, issue advocacy organizations, and more,
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: and raising critical funds. We have directly raised over $ 400
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: million for dozens of campaigns and member-connected PAC clients. Further,
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: a majority of the funds that are reported by the
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: FEC is going to Mothership or pass-through funds the company
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: actually pays to our clients' other vendors, including advertising partners,
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: to support their programmatic work. So just reading the statement now,
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: but it doesn't seem to conflict with anything in the
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: actual Substack piece.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think what they're probably quibbling with is
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: how much goes to the company as profits versus what
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: is paid through the company. But look, the broader point
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: is that like all this money just goes to perpetuate
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: the fundraising cycle. And that is the problem. It's like
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: I did a just stepping back. I did an episode
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: on this a few weeks back and why it's impossible
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: to get the fundraising text to stop when you when
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: you text stop every I've text stopped five times today.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: Have you guys gotten a flood today? I've gotten like
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: 10 fundraising solicitations.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: It's relentless.
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: I just got one that said, John, I'm trans.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: I got one that said, John, I'm trans.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: Okay, so the reason it never stops when you press
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: stop is because that removes your number from that campaign
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: or super packs the list. There's no like do not
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: spam registry or like universal do not spam list. And
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: so if you've donated even to like one candidate in
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: your life, that can go into a list that gets
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: sold to consultants or data brokers and they can sell
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: your list and your information over and over and over
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: again in perpetuity, which is why it is, can feel like,
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: and maybe is impossible to get off these lists. And
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: I think the problem is like when you press party
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: leaders about how annoying and damaging these fundraising tactics are,
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: they just kind of shrug their shoulders and say, well,
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: they work. But what this article suggests is that they
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: don't work. They're incredibly inefficient, enormous amount of money goes in,
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: but very little goes out to the causes. And obviously
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: the people at Mothership Strategies kind of quibble about how
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: much is going to them versus other vendors. but all
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: of this money is going to do more fundraising, right?
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: It's like not a lot of it is going towards
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: the actual political causes.
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: And they're not saying that in the statement, by the way,
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: that they're not trying to argue that actually more is going.
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: They're just saying, it's not all going to us. It's
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: all going to some vendors as well. Or at least
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: that's what the statement says.
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: Or maybe some share of it is going to advertising
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: and it's being counted in the wrong way.
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: Who knows?
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: They're claiming this is largely inaccurate.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: We'll see.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: But like stepping back, this is a stupid way to
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: run a fucking party, right? Like let's say more of
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: it is going out, uh, than this article claims or
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: some way in which he's, he's over counting something, right?
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: First of all, I don't think you're gonna land at
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: the end and be like, wow, it's actually really good.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: But put that aside is there was this report that
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: came out that, uh, Democrats send a far greater share
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: of their fundraising dollars to safe seats than Republicans do. Uh,
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: and one reason is that fundraising has become this sort of, uh,
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: scorched earth kind of, uh, uh, hammering Democrats over and
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: over and over and over again with requests. And in
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: that kind of environment, more charismatic figures, more sensational opponents, right?
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: Less strategic decisions are going to be made about money.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: And yes, I am sure that sending out a blast
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: of fundraising texts, you get a report back saying like
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: we sent out texts and $ 100, 000 came in or $ 40, 000
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: came in. You do that again and again and again,
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: it starts to become real money. But the cost is
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: that this big group of hyper-engaged Democrats who have been
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: funding the resistance for almost a decade now are exhausted
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: and angry and mistrustful of this entire process. And these
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: are the people you want not just to donate to you,
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: but to advocate for you on their social media, to
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: believe in you, to believe in the process. And all
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: of this is just so cynical.
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think the problem is with direct mail,
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: like the old school way, there would be literal costs.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: You'd have stamps, you'd have envelopes, you'd have paper, right?
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: And with just hammer and like a file full of
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: text numbers or emails or cell phone addresses, like there's
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: zero cost to that. And so you can just go
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: after these people over and over and over again. And again,
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: we don't know about the top line numbers in the story,
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: but there's one example that seemed pretty egregious to me,
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: just that got at the, the waste and the self-dealing here,
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: which is, um, there is a super pack called end
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: citizens United, which I've definitely gotten, right? So apparently that
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: pack was created by two principles from mothership strategies. So
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: of course, And Citizens United then hires Mothership Strategies to
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: do their text and email and fundraising. So at the
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: end of the day, like and Citizens United PAC raises
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: a ton of money from like well-meaning people that largely
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: goes to pay the guys who started the PAC for
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: the services. And so that doesn't really benefit anyone. And
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: it's also like you said, you are it's not just
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: that you're annoying people and harming the Democratic Party brand.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: You're hurting the people who care enough or care the.
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: Most who are willing to give money. You're also raising expectations.
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: It made me think of this because of the name.
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: You're raising expectations for people who have no... End Citizens United?
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: You're not going to end Citizens United? Change the Supreme Court.
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: That's what's going to happen. You're going to wait around
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: and we're going to have to get a whole new
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: court to have a chance to end Citizens United. So this...
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: That one, all of the ones that they listed, all
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: the packs they listed in the sub stack are all
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: like I recognize most of them. They're all on our phones.
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: They're all constantly.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: And they're all ridiculous. And the fundraising pitches all sound ridiculous.
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: The emails sound ridiculous. It's like it's crazy.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: And by the way, like I am sure in the
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: deluge of text we're getting, there are legitimate requests from campaigns.
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: I'll either want to or will ultimately donate to. But
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: I have to ignore all of these messages because, first
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: of all, you don't know if they're reliable or not.
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: You don't know if they're true.
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: Like for every dollar that's going to mothership strategies, who
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: knows how many fake tests are going to kind of
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: guileless senior citizens who have been horrified by Trump and
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: want to help and are watching MSNBC and are super
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: engaged and, and just donating on their phone to random numbers.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: It's a, it's a stupid and ridiculous system and more
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: democratic politicians need to stop participating in this process. And
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: maybe it requires a little bit of, there is like a, a,
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: a a little bit of like a network effect and
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: sort of a sort of collective action problem. But there
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: has to be some alternative, including Democrats working together to
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: figure out some other way of reaching voters that's less
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: of a deluge and less sort of a kind of
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: like winner takes all, everyone going after everybody all the time.
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And I think that, and I talked a little
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: bit with Ken Martin about this, the chairman of the
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: DNC when I interviewed him for YouTube. Check it out,
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: Pod Save America YouTube. And he does seem like he seemed,
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: and this was before the story came out, but he
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: seemed like he wants to do more to call them out.
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: And remember the Harris campaign. I've heard he's pissed about this.
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: He's pissed about it. He was very pissed when I
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: talked to him about it. And also I think the
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: Harris campaign in 2024 did call out some of these
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: spam packs as well. Yeah.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's spam packs that are like horribly spammy, right?
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: Like whenever someone's running, it's Marjorie Taylor Greene. There's always
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: some candidate that will raise like $ 20 million and it'll
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: all go to consulting services that somehow benefit them. Then
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: there's also packs that will send out texts and emails
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: that include photos of politicians that are in no way
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: connected to the PAC. That's really predatory. There are people
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: that get locked into recurring donations in really deceptive ways.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: What's sad about this is it's even worse on the
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: Republican side. What they do to their donors is disgusting.
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: This is everything Trump does. Everything that Trump does.
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: But I do think the candidates working with firms that
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: do abusive practices need to cut ties with them. And
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: they also need to recognize that you end up feeding
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: your online donors into this ecosystem and churn of fraud
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: and self-dealing and you're harming your own people. And I
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: also think like the article, this article claims that this
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: firm Mothership Strategies is kind of insulated by its connections
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: with senior elected officials in the Democratic Party. And those
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: officials say, you know, basically it's no big deal because
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: the tactics work and we need the money and everyone
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: benefits at the end. And like, I've been in meetings
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: with you guys where we've heard that directly from top
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: officials in the party. They're off the record conversations. We're
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: not going to name names. but it's sort of like
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: a shrug, like, well, it works. And, you know, if
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: an annoying text is the worst thing in your life, like,
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: you know, you got bigger problems. And I just think like,
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: that is bad. We need to take this seriously and
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: not brush it off. And like my advice- It sounds
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: like it doesn't work. Well, right. And my advice to
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: listeners is like, never give to someone that texts you
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: or emails you. If you care about a cause or
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: a candidate, research it, go to their website, give directly.
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: Make these texts so inefficient that they go away.
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: Yes, for sure. Yeah, I can't, yeah.
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: Is anybody... That's what's also hard to... I don't know
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: anybody that's donating via these texts.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: Because it's old senior citizens.
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: It's old.
• 48:27
  Speaker 5: People.
• 48:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 48:34
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• 49:42
  Speaker 3: first month at betterhelp.com.psa. That's betterhelp.com.psa. So, at this point,
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: Trump has broken so many campaign promises, it's hard to
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: keep track. But there's one in particular we wanted to flag.
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: You might remember Trump saying a lot of things like
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: this during the 2024 campaign.
• 50:02
  Speaker 8: I'm announcing today in a major statement that under the
• 50:06
  Speaker 8: Trump administration, your government will pay for or your insurance
• 50:11
  Speaker 8: company will be mandated to pay for all costs associated
• 50:17
  Speaker 8: with IVF treatment, fertilization for women.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: We are going to be paying for that treatment. So
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: we are paying for that treatment. All Americans who want it?
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: All Americans that get it.
• 50:29
  Speaker 4: All Americans that need it.
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: Oh, I want to talk about IVF. You don't hear
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: that every day.
• 50:36
  Speaker 4: I'm the father of IVF, so I want to hear
• 50:37
  Speaker 4: this question.
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: That was always so weird. So strange. The father of
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: IVF thing, I remember that.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: Didn't make any sense.
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: So on Sunday, the Washington Post reported that the Trump
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: administration does not plan to require health insurance to cover
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: fertility treatments and IVF, nor have it mandated in Obamacare,
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: nor provide government subsidies to make the procedures more affordable.
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: A White House spokesperson told the Post that the Trump
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: administration is, quote, committed like none before it to using
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: its authorities to deliver on this pledge. So one survey
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: from last year, one in eight women or their partner
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: said they needed some form of fertility treatments in order
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: to get pregnant, but only one in 10 had received it,
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: and about 2% of all babies born in the U.S.
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: are a result of IVF specifically. You think Trump ignores
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: this promise at his own peril? Yeah, I do.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of people care deeply about this,
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: and I think the political cost is cumulative. There's a
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: critical mass of lies like this. And just for those
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: that don't know, IVF is insanely expensive. The average cost
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: of a cycle is $ 14, 000 to $ 25, 000, depending on where
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: you live in this country. Many patients have to do
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: multiple cycles. So you could be talking $ 30, 000, $ 50, 000, $ 75, 000.
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: And that is just way out of reach for a
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: lot of people. But it's not a small thing you're
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: trying to get, right? This is about having a child, right?
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: This is deeply painful and important to people. And I
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: think a lot of folks in the political world were
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: skeptical of this promise because the timing, how cynical it
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: was and how expensive it was. But for a lot
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: of people, like a lot of voters heard this, and
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: this was their only hope of ever being able to
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: afford IVF and potentially having a baby. And this is
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: a life-changing, massive, broken promise that is not a small thing.
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: It's not something you'll forget. It's not insignificant to someone's life.
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: And I think it is outraging a lot of people.
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: And we saw like Andrew Schultz, the host of the
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: flagrant podcast, like he has talked about how he and
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: his wife went through IVF, how this was, he was
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: sort of like a single issue voter in some ways.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: And this was really important to him. Uh, and he was, uh,
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: posting about this over the weekend. Like a lot of
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: people are profoundly hurt and betrayed.
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: It's also like extremely cynical. It's not like it's a
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: broken promise where a lot of politicians broken promises like, well,
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: we tried and we sent a bill to Congress and
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: it didn't work out. Or we tried to do some
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: executive action. Like, Back in February, they released an executive
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: order in action or a proclamation or something that was
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: directing all of the federal agencies to come back in
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: 50 or 60 days and let the president know what
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: they could do to make IVF more affordable. Those days
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: have come and gone. Nothing. We haven't heard anything about it.
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: It was basically just done in February just to get
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: a headline that the Trump administration was going to do
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: something about it. And then until the Washington Post called
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: them up and asked them about it, we heard nothing.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, look, it was cynical at the time, right? And
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: it was sort of along the lines of the promise
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: on no tax on tips. It was on the line
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: of sort of some of the other promises he was making,
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: trying to appeal to a broader, beyond the sort of
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: Republican coalition that had existed. But this was such a
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: kind of half-baked promise, right? IVF is incredibly expensive. It
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: would be a big deal if you mandated that insurance
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: companies cover it. It is also controversial on the right.
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: There are a lot of anti-abortion Republicans who are opposed
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: to IVF. This story was kicked off because of a
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: ruling in Alabama that suddenly called the possibility of IVF
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: into question in that state and jeopardized the ability of
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: women to access IVF if they wanted it. And it
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: was extremely unpopular. It was extremely damaging. It was the
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: natural consequence of the court's abortion ruling. And all of
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: a sudden, Trump faced this terrible news cycle and says,
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: I'm the dad of IVF. whatever the fuck that means.
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: And I'm going to make sure anybody who wants IVF
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: can get IVF. Even for policymakers, it's a difficult question.
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: How many cycles do you cover? How do you mandate this?
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: It's expensive and it's important and it's a hard policy.
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: And he just sort of went off half-cocked to win
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: these votes and they had no intention of following through
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: on it. And this is the end result. And it's this,
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: it's a whole bunch of other issues where he's done
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: the exact same thing. By the way, I think part
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: of it is the the promise to release the Epstein files.
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: He's not going to release the Epstein files. Like all
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: these promises that he made, he had no intention to solve.
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: But I do think to Tommy's point, like for a
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: lot of people, this was something that was going to
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: change their lives and it's just not happening.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: In that last clip we played, I remember watching that.
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: It was a Fox News town hall in Georgia. They
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: built it as like a women's town hall. You could
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: hear Harris Faulkner, I think her name there, just like
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: so unbelievably credulous. Everyone knew that that announcement was bullshit.
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: The math didn't add up. There's no way they could
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: afford to pay for it. It was not part of
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: any of his plans. He called himself the father of
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: the IVF. It just was a reminder of how terribly
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: Fox News treats its own viewers and voters. They treat
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: them like idiots.
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: What do you guys think is going to happen if
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: he gets the question on this? Do you think he's
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: going to say, we're looking into it. A couple more weeks?
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: We're going to have a plan on that in two weeks.
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: You're fake news. Why are you asking me that question?
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: How dare you?
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: That's a terrible question. That's a hateful question. Yeah, maybe
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: he won't get the question because, you know, it's just
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: all Marjorie Taylor Greene's boyfriend. Yeah.
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: By the way, you're talking about the next head of
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: Bureau of Labor Statistics.
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: Speaking of Trump's broken promises, the one that's been getting
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: the most attention these last few weeks was his promise
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: to release the Epstein files. Instead, Trump's DOJ has just
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: released Epstein's convicted co-conspirator, Ghislaine Maxwell, from a federal prison
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: in Florida to a minimum security facility in Texas known
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: as Club Fed. Sounds nice. According to Bureau of Prisons regulations,
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: sex offenders like Maxwell are supposed to be held in
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: facilities like the one in Florida, not the minimum security
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: camp in Texas. Naturally, when Trump took questions for the
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: first time since the transfer was announced, he got some
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: probing questions on the controversy that everyone's talking about. Sidney Sweeney.
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: It came out this weekend that she.
• 56:29
  Speaker 5: Was a registered Republican.
• 56:30
  Speaker 7: Any thoughts on that?
• 56:31
  Speaker 4: That who was?
• 56:32
  Speaker 7: Sidney Sweeney.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: She's a very hot actress right now.
• 56:34
  Speaker 4: She's a registered Republican?
• 56:36
  Speaker 8: Yes.
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: Oh, now I love her ad.
• 56:38
  Speaker 4: If Sidney Sweeney is a registered Republican, I think her
• 56:43
  Speaker 4: ad is fantastic.
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: Thank you very much, everybody.
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: Great question. Great shot of question. Glad we got him
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: on the record there. No Ghislaine Maxwell question. Trump followed
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: that up with a Monday morning post praising Sweeney. attacking
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: the car company Jaguar for a new supposedly woke ad.
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: Wasn't that like a year ago?
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: I have no idea. I didn't even look into that one.
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: I remember that a while ago.
• 57:03
  Speaker 3: And he also claimed once again that Taylor Swift has
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: stopped being popular since she endorsed Kamala. She did a
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: $ 2 billion grossing tour.
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: It changed the economy of Sweden. We're seeing a bump.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: This Taylor Swift bump in the Swedish economy can't be
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: counted on next year.
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: Before we get to Sidney Sweeney, Thoughts on the latest
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: in the Epstein case? We got Maxwell. Just no explanation.
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: It's worth just repeating that Ghislaine Maxwell is not a
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: good person. She groomed these 14-year-old girls. She abused them herself.
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: She sought out girls who had been abused themselves or
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: confided in her. One Epstein victim, Virginia Giuffre, said about
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: Ghislaine Maxwell, I think this was on CBS, she's a monster.
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: She's worse than Epstein. She was vicious. She was evil.
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: I know that woman. Virginia Giuffre died by suicide in
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: April of this year. So this is fucked up.
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: So there was a report from other prisoners at Club
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: Fed who were there for theft and other nonviolent offensive
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: who are personally disgusted to have to be with Ghislaine Maxwell.
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: And I'm sorry we have to look to these people
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: for their moral leadership. But Ghislaine Maxwell is not a
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: nonviolent offender because she participated in sexual abuse. That is
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: a violent act. She is a violent offender. She should
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: not be in a place for white collar criminals. Just
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: because it was a rich person and took place on
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: a fancy island doesn't make it a white collar crime.
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: She is a violent criminal offender. And where we're at
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: now is we know Trump was in the Epstein files.
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: That's what his attorney general told him. We know that
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: he dispatched his former personal attorney to meet with Ghislaine
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: Maxwell and for, what was it, eight and a half hours?
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: Over two days. We know that Trump has been asked
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: about whether he will pardon Ghislaine Maxwell. He won't say
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: he won't. He won't address it. And then we find
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: out with that explanation she's being transferred from a less
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: pleasant facility to what's known as Club Fed. A previous
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: controversy years ago was when Trump said that he wished
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: Ghislaine Maxwell well, right? And so what conclusion are you
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: meant to draw other than Donald Trump's lawyers are currying
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: favor with Ghislaine Maxwell, dangling a pardon in the hopes
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: that she'll absolve him of any culpability given that his
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: name appears in the files and he had a long-term
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: relationship with Jeffrey Epstein?
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: Again, we're recording this Monday afternoon. We got this news
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: on Friday about the transfer. And no one, no responses
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: from the administration on this, from the DOJ, from the
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: Bureau of Prisons, from the White House. We have no
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: idea why she was transferred. We have no idea what
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: Todd Blanch talked to Ghislaine Maxwell about over the course
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: of two days. So we just don't get these questions answered.
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: But the DOJ did have time to leak to Fox
• 59:50
  Speaker 3: News that they're going to a grand jury to conduct
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: an investigation into the Obama administration for this Russiagate bullshit
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: that you can't even figure out what the crime might
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: be or what law might be broken. So they were
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: able to let Fox know that they're conducting this investigation,
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: but no answer on Glenn Maxwell.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: And we also know that a thousand FBI staffers worked
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: 24 seven to review something like a hundred thousand documents
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: in the Epstein files. And we know that they spent
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: a bunch of time redacting Donald Trump's name. And now
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: we're not going to get to see those files according
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: to Donald Trump. So nothing shady there.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: No answers on that either.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 8: Nope.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 3: No, no one, uh, no questions on that. No answers
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: on that. Just, we're just all flying blind here. Whatever
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: the Trump administration wants to tell us about what they're
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: doing with Ghislaine Maxwell or the Obama administration or Russiagate
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: or the jobs numbers. That's, that's what we have to
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: deal with. There's the, the, and then they, and then
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: they just fucking trolled us all with that. I don't
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 3: know if you guys saw the post today from the
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: white house that said most transparent administration in history. That's just,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 3: they know they're not. And they just said, there's just
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: a fuck you to everything. It's, uh, Just a big
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: fuck you. To their base, too, by the way.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: Mostly, yeah.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: Right. Well, they put a lot of attention on sort
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: of trying to win the kind of crank vote and
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: appeal to a bunch of conspiracy theorists. And they put
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: Kash Patel and Dan Bongino in these positions of authority
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: to people that espouse some version of conspiracy theories, which
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: at this point I think are true, about Epstein and
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: about QAnon, claiming there's a vast global pedophilia ring. run
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: by the powerful and the elite. And the next thing
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: we know, Donald Trump is president, and they are laying
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: out the red carpet for one of the most notorious
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: sex traffickers in American history at this point, who participated
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: in terrible crimes for a very long time. And there's
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: just no accountability for it. All these Republicans are silent
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: in the face of it, and it's disgusting.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: More importantly, would you guys like to weigh in on
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: the Sidney Sweeney discourse now that we know she is
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: a registered Republican reportedly. And now that the president of
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: the United States has weighed in on this multiple times.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: So it is just a pun on the word jeans.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 8: Yep.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: It is just a pun, just a pun on the
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 3: word jeans, good jeans, but it's not, it could be
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: jeans inherited or it could be jeans that she's wearing. See,
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: it's funny.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: It is a very dumb and annoying story. There's also
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: something to be said about the fact that like the
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: white house is able to kick this stuff up whenever
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: it wants. It can be like, Six people commenting on
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: like a TikTok creator. It's like, you know, it's like
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: that genre of really annoying internet story. It's like the
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: internet is furious about this new Sydney Sweeney ad. It's
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: like some people commenting over on Blue Sky and suddenly
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: it's an article and suddenly all of the MAGA media
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: ecosystem is talking about it and the White House is
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: releasing statements.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: Like, when do we get to do that? Yeah, there's
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 3: a stopover though with, you know, random style writer's opinion.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: Like it was, there was a Washington Post piece about it.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: There's a whole bunch of things. So it's like, that's
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: where it starts. And then it goes from there to the,
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: to Fox, right? And then they're all talking about on
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 3: the five and then it goes to Donald Trump. It's
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: like a whole.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: Well, we made, we made a commenter president. I mean,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: that's the problem. He is, he is one of the
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: commenters beneath the story, but he also happens.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 3: He's the commenter.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: He's America's chief commenter. Uh, I will say the woke
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: Jaguar ads.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 3: So why are they woke and what are they?
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: Well, first of all, I just would point out that
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: Jaguar is a British company. It's not really, I don't
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: think it's been really affected by America's woke problem, according
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: to Trump. But they redid their logo and it's very ugly.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: And that's for non-woke reasons. The new Jaguar logo was
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: very bad.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: This happened in late 2024, by the way.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's quite old.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 3: It's so old.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: And everyone was like, hey, you did a bad job
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: on your logo.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: That's the other problem with Trump is like, we've lost
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 3: all sense of time, whether we've done this thing before.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 3: Have we already seen this episode? Are we back to
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 3: the episode? When did the Jaguar thing happen? He's talking
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 3: about Taylor Swift again. What is happening?
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: Do you think the person who just like, you know,
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: that Dylan Mulvaney, what a brave person. I find what
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: she's doing really interesting and I like her. I'm going
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: to send her a six pack of Bud Light. Do
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: you think that person knew that two and a half
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: years later, the president of the United States was going
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: to be like, that fucking Bud Light's got to be stopped.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's going to be Kid Rock machine gunning
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: Bud Light cans or something.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: Anyway, that's Sidney Sweeney. That's what we're dealing with now.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 3: This is day 13 or 14 of the discourse. Let's
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: see how long we can do.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: And she was pardoned for her involvement in January 6th.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: That's one of the reasons this is so controversial. Or
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: is it just the ad?
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 3: I can't remember. She is in the Epstein files. All right,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: two quick things before we go to break. After unsuccessfully
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: seeking asylum in Canada, Love It is back with new
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 3: shows at Dynasty Typewriter this Thursday, August 7th, along with
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 3: you've got a special guest. You have Ken Jennings?
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: Ken Jennings and Amy Schneider, two Jeopardy! legends, plus Tim Heidecker.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: That's awesome. I didn't realize he said yes. I'm finding
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: out from this. We had a great show out this
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: weekend with Patton Oswalt and Alice Wetterlin and Peppermint. and
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: Ashley Nicole Black. Also, we put the monologue from Love
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: Relieve It on the Ponce of America feed.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: We just call it mono now? Is that just like
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 3: an industry term?
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: It's our internal term for it.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: Now I'm embarrassed.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: I couldn't name it after a disease that puts you
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: out of.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: The kissing disease, Tommy? Has the kissing disease come for you?
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: It gives you like a six-month nap.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: Remember when we both got mono at the same time?
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: That was weird.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: I have never had mono. Okay.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 3: Calm down. Calm down. We never had mono.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: You got it.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: You got it, buddy.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: Mic's are on. Never had a monologue.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 3: You're both just down for the cat.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: Incredible.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: Just two weeks off. Very tired. Pre-COVID. Anyway, but I
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: was really proud of the monologue we did this week
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: because we talked about Epstein and we talked about Gaza
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: and talked about all the conspiracy theories, which is on
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: the Pond Save America feed if you want to check
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: it out.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 3: Crooked.com slash events if you want to go see Love
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 3: It in person at Dynasty Typewriter. Also, a reminder, speaking
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 3: of events, we announced our first ever CrookedCon last week
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 3: and tickets are already going fast. CrookedCon is a chance
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 3: to hear from smart people inside and outside the crooked
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 3: universe about how to galvanize the pro-democracy movement. As if
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 3: it needs galvanizing. We'll be in Washington, D.C. for two days.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 3: We're going to kick things off with Pod Save America
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 3: Live at the Warner Theater on Thursday, November 6th. Then
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 3: on Friday, November 7th, we'll be at the Wharf. The Wharf. Anyway,
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 3: it's going to be really fun. We're going to have organizers, strategists,
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 3: politicians that aren't annoying.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: James Talreka's going to show up with his clothes on
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: a bindle because he's been on the road.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 3: Riding the rail to DC. Oh man, if they can
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 3: make it till then, we will give them, well, we
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 3: won't pay them because we don't want to do any
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 3: of the felony stuff, but you know, we'll give them
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 3: food and water.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: I think legally it has to be finger food.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 3: Commodities. Anyway, hold on till then guys.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: Lobbying wise, I think you can sit, you can eat,
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: but if you're standing, it's a snack.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 3: We'll invite their families so they can say hi to
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 3: their families. I haven't seen them in a couple months.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: Everybody gets one phone call.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 3: Tickets are on sale now. Head to CricutCon.com for tickets,
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 3: lineup announcements in the coming weeks, and more. That's C-R-O-O-K-E-D-C-O-N.com.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 3: We've also got a limited amount of discounted tickets when
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 3: you use the code FREEDOMANDCONTENT. Again, that's one word, all caps, FREEDOMANDCONTENT.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 3: So get your tickets soon, and we'll see you there.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 3: That's our show for today. Dan and I will be
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 3: back with a new show on Friday. Talk to everybody then.
• 1:07:15
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• 1:07:17
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• 1:07:21
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• 1:07:24
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• 1:07:27
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• 1:07:30
  Speaker 3: review to help boost this episode and everything we do
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 3: here at Crooked. Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 3: Our producers are David Toledo, Emma Illich-Frank, and Saul Rubin.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 3: Our associate producer is Farah Safari. Austin Fisher is our
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 3: senior producer. Reed Cherlin is our executive editor. Adrian Hill
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 3: is our head of news and politics. The show is
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 3: mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Cantor is our
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 3: sound engineer with audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 3: Matt DeGroat is our head of production. Naomi Sengel is
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 3: our executive assistant. Thanks to our digital team, Elijah Cohn,
• 1:08:02
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• 1:08:05
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• 1:08:08
  Speaker 3: the Writers Guild of America East.