Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / BTK Killer Dennis Rader speaks: A demon made him murder

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BTK Killer Dennis Rader speaks: A demon made him murder · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: crime stories with Nancy Grace. I would get these uh
1:02
Speaker 1: feelings of being woozy. It was really unusual, and I
1:08
Speaker 1: was going to the doctor to find out what was wrong.
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Speaker 1: They sent me to all kinds of specialists. It was
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Speaker 1: after Dennis was arrested, and probably about two weeks later
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Speaker 1: it finally occurred to me, you know what, I'm not
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Speaker 1: having any symptoms anymore. And then it occurred to me
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Speaker 1: that Dennis and I were the only two people at
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Speaker 1: the city who had access to a locked file cabinet
1:36
Speaker 1: for tranquilizer for um animals. And I truly believe that
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Speaker 1: Dennis was petting very tiny drops into my diat popsy.
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Speaker 1: I personally believe, and I have no way of being
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Speaker 1: able to prove this. I was a guinea pig for
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Speaker 1: his ability to use tranquilizer on other victims. You or
2:00
Speaker 1: hearing Mary Capps who worked with a serial killer for
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Speaker 1: seven years, only knowing him as a bad tempered boss,
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Speaker 1: but she came to realize she was lucky to be alive.
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Speaker 1: We are talking about b t K bind torture and
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Speaker 1: kill serial killer Dennis Raider, who was just spoken from
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Speaker 1: behind jail house walls. I Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories.
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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. B t K Buine
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Speaker 1: torture and kill Dennis writer. I knew something was up
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Speaker 1: when I first found out he was a dog catcher. Okay,
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Speaker 1: who wants to catch dogs to haul them off to
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Speaker 1: be euthanized. I mean, is that some kind of a
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Speaker 1: freaky calling. But other than that career choice, he seemed
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Speaker 1: to be normal. To John Limley, investigative reporter, who is
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Speaker 1: b e t K Dennis Raider, and he the guy
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Speaker 1: who terrorized which dot Kansas for seventeen years. We know
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Speaker 1: of ten brutal torture and murder victims. Dennis Raider the
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Speaker 1: oldest of four sons. Though born in Pittsburgh, Kansas, he
3:17
Speaker 1: grew up in Wichita. He went into the Air Force.
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Speaker 1: He worked as an assembler for the Coleman Company, that
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Speaker 1: outdoor supply company. He began to show signs that things
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Speaker 1: were just not quite right as he was growing up.
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Speaker 1: His parents recalled seeing him uh spending a lot of
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Speaker 1: time alone. He was really obsessed with with death and
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Speaker 1: the as so often as the case the death of
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Speaker 1: small animals. Okay, right there, you're as a red bell
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Speaker 1: of alarm. Joining me. John Limley Crime online dot Com
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Speaker 1: investigative reporter. You can find this and all other breaking
3:59
Speaker 1: crime in justice, music, crime online dot com. Dr William Moroney,
4:04
Speaker 1: Stained medical examiner, joining us, author of a brand new
4:07
Speaker 1: book on Amazon, American Narcan Veterans trial lawyer out of L. A.
4:12
Speaker 1: Troy Slayton. He'll come up with the defense even for
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Speaker 1: b T K. Dr Bethany Marshall psycho analysts Joining us
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Speaker 1: from L. A. Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case
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Speaker 1: Investigative Research Institute, and Wendy Patrick, California Prosecutor. When you
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Speaker 1: say tortured small animals, Dr Bethany Marshall, all sorts of
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Speaker 1: alarms go off in my head. Explain absolutely, I mean,
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Speaker 1: you hear budding sociopaths. Um. What what we know about
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Speaker 1: sociopathy is that there is a wish to relate to
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Speaker 1: everybody on the basis of power rather than affection. Sociopathy
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Speaker 1: is a disorder of detachment. So sociopaths that do not
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Speaker 1: attach to other people in a loving way, they only
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Speaker 1: want to dumb anate on them. They have a parasitic
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Speaker 1: relationship with them, They want to take things from them,
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Speaker 1: they want to cheat on others. And so the behavioral
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Speaker 1: pattern we see in children and youth who are going
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Speaker 1: to become sociopaths is that they begin to assert their
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Speaker 1: dominance over animals, often to the point of cruelty, of
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Speaker 1: killing and maiming animals. And so this is really the
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Speaker 1: canary in the coal mine. Basically, clinically, when you want
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Speaker 1: to look back and see if somebody a sociopath, you
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Speaker 1: look at their relationships with animals in their youth and childhood. Okay,
5:35
Speaker 1: those were a lot of words. Dr Bethany Marshall, I'm
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Speaker 1: trying to process Cheryl McCollum, break it down in regular
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Speaker 1: people talk. It's straight out of the serial killer handle.
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Speaker 1: Do you want to be a serial killer? You're gonna
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Speaker 1: start some fires, You're gonna wet the bed past what
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Speaker 1: we consider a normal age, and you're gonna torture small animals.
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Speaker 1: We are talking about BTK, bind, torture and kill. Take
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Speaker 1: a listen to Dr Catherine Ramsland. But Raider's father worked
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Speaker 1: long hours. He didn't see him a lot. He said.
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Speaker 1: His mother liked to read or watch TV, so she
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Speaker 1: didn't pay a lot of attention to the kids, and
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Speaker 1: she did let the grandparents take over some of the
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Speaker 1: child ry. I got along real well with Ben, but
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Speaker 1: mom always wasn't quite happy in love. He greet it
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Speaker 1: has a little bit of a little bit too correct
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Speaker 1: again small. I'm Dr Catherine Ramsland. I'm a professor of
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Speaker 1: forensic psychology. I've had extensive correspondence with Dennis writer the
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Speaker 1: b t K serial Killer, because I wrote a book
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Speaker 1: with Dennis Rider called Confession of a serial Killer. When
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Speaker 1: he was young, his mother's ring got caught on a
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Speaker 1: couch spring and she couldn't get her hand out. She
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Speaker 1: apparently was terrified and told him to go get help,
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Speaker 1: and he felt the first stirrings of arousal over. This
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Speaker 1: was exciting, Damna see a woman helpless, and it was
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Speaker 1: the beginning of his ideas about women, that what he
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Speaker 1: wanted from them was to keep them trapped and helpless
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Speaker 1: and looking to him in terror. That became imprinted in
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Speaker 1: his mind and became the image he was always after.
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Speaker 1: That is a discussion. You were hearing the voice of
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Speaker 1: Katherine Ramsland. Dr. Katherine Ramsland, who had dozens and dozens
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Speaker 1: and dozens of conversations correspondence with b t K writer
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Speaker 1: insisting there is a quote dark side of him, the
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Speaker 1: demons inside me. You know what, Cheryl McCollum, Wendy Patrick,
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Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, Troy Slaton, William Roney. How many times do
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Speaker 1: we have to see it? So often? When we see
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Speaker 1: horrific evil acts like those of bt K, Dinner Strader, buying, torture, kill,
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Speaker 1: they blame the devil. Oh, the devil made me do it.
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Speaker 1: It's the demon in me. Cheryl McCollum. This guy is
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Speaker 1: blaming the quote demon inside of him, the devil. Remember
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Speaker 1: that old phrase, the devil made me do it. That's
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Speaker 1: what the person chuckles about. It's complete garbage. He doesn't
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Speaker 1: want to admit that it's him, so obviously he's gonna say, hey,
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Speaker 1: it was the devil, because what I did was sobrific
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Speaker 1: and so horrible that was people hear about it. I've
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Speaker 1: got to have an excuse ready, and the only excuse
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Speaker 1: there is is the devil. Take a listen to what
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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Davis, son of one of b t k's victims,
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Speaker 1: has to say. Sitting here before us is a depraved predator,
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Speaker 1: a rabbit animal that has murdered people, poisoned countless lives,
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Speaker 1: and terrorized this community for thirty years, all the while
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Speaker 1: relishing every minute of it. As such, there can be
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Speaker 1: no justice harsh enough for revenge bitter enough in this world,
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Speaker 1: at least to cause the pain and suffering which a
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Speaker 1: social malignancy like this has coming. Therefore, I have determined
9:08
Speaker 1: it for the sake of our innocent victims and their
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Speaker 1: loving families and friends with us here today. For me,
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Speaker 1: this will be a day of celebration, not retribution. If
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Speaker 1: my focus were hatred, I would stare you down and
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Speaker 1: call you a demon from hell who defiles this cord
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Speaker 1: at the very sight of its cancerous presence. If I
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Speaker 1: embraced bitterness, I would remind you that you're nothing but
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Speaker 1: a desperable child, murdering, cowardly, impotent, eunuch and pervert masquerading
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Speaker 1: as a human being. If I were the animal whats
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Speaker 1: you are, I would say that I relish the thought
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Speaker 1: of you being being treated to the same despicable brutality,
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Speaker 1: terror and agony at the hands of your sin to
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Speaker 1: be fellow inmates that you relished inflicting on your defenseless victims.
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Speaker 1: If I respiteful, I would remind you that it is
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Speaker 1: only fitting in a twisted, narcissistic psychopath obsessed with public
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Speaker 1: attention will soon have his world reduced to an isolated,
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Speaker 1: solitary existence. In an eightiescore a foot sale, he had
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Speaker 1: gotten away with lived a normal life, and he decides
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Speaker 1: to reappear. His ego was everything to him and he
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Speaker 1: was the master manipulator. Dennis Raider went into taunt the
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Speaker 1: media and the police. He was mocking them. He started
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Speaker 1: writing the most chilling letters to us. He thanked the
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Speaker 1: news team for getting the word out. Many of us
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Speaker 1: thought that he was contemplating another kill and it could
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Speaker 1: be someone in our station. I didn't know whether I
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Speaker 1: was the next victim. You are hearing right there, local
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Speaker 1: news reporters recalling strange events surrounding the b t K investigation.
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Speaker 1: And I find it very very odd to Windy Patrick,
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Speaker 1: California prosecutor, that he the b t K killer buying
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Speaker 1: torture killed Dennis Rider. Wanted to quote get the word out.
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Speaker 1: Most killers want to keep it a secret. Well, you know,
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Speaker 1: we live in a day and age where unfortunately the
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Speaker 1: notoriety associated with some of these despicable actions as arousing
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Speaker 1: to some suspects and some defendants. We've seen that with shootings,
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Speaker 1: we've seen that with other types of killings. This man
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Speaker 1: apparently was at it for three decades, and so at
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Speaker 1: some point it's almost like he wanted credit for his work.
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Speaker 1: It's it's unthinkable, it's inhumane, but it's in this mindset,
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Speaker 1: and that's part of why Dr Ramsland wrote this book
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Speaker 1: with him. It's this mindset that we want to know
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Speaker 1: in case we see red flags, which which I believably
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Speaker 1: nobody saw in this particular case. That's part of the
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Speaker 1: reason he wanted the story out To CHERYLD McCullum, director
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Speaker 1: of the Cold Case Research Institute, what exactly happened? Maybe
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Speaker 1: let me let me go on one thing real quick.
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Speaker 1: Will you have a killer like Son of Sam or
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Speaker 1: Zodiac or b TK that gives themselves a nickname? That's
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Speaker 1: a window into that person's ego. Of course he wanted credit.
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Speaker 1: There was no other person like this. When he burst
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Speaker 1: as out and he was gonna kill, he didn't choose
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Speaker 1: one victim. He chose a family that he was going
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Speaker 1: to strangle with his bare hands and then proceeded to
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Speaker 1: tell us, you know what, I didn't know he was
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Speaker 1: gonna take that much straight serious flee. That's what his
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Speaker 1: issue was. The needs needed to get in better shape,
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Speaker 1: but he could keep killing. He gaveed himself a nickname.
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Speaker 1: He reached out to the media. He wanted the credit.
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Speaker 1: That's how you become famous, you know. To Troyce Layton,
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Speaker 1: veteran defense lawyer, how are you going to defend this
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Speaker 1: raider known as bt K by torture kill actually wants
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Speaker 1: dressed up as one of his victims. I'm looking at
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Speaker 1: the photo now, it's of him wearing that looks like
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Speaker 1: to be kind of a dress, and he's tied himself
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Speaker 1: all up, and he's wearing uh, blonde freaky wig and
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Speaker 1: he looks like he's got on doll mask with its
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Speaker 1: solid white with black and out eyes and red blobs
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Speaker 1: on the cheeks for rouge. And interestingly, he has tied
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Speaker 1: a blue binding across his own mouth. I'm looking at
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Speaker 1: the picture right now, Troyce Layton Defense. This is clearly
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Speaker 1: not somebody who is in control of all of their
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Speaker 1: mental faculties, Nancy. But aside from that, in a case
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Speaker 1: like this, really because he held down a job as
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Speaker 1: a dog catcher and was a leader in his local church.
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Speaker 1: Uh a former church leader who hid his killings from
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Speaker 1: his wife and two children. Um, what about Nancy, What
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Speaker 1: do you mean he's insane? He the Constitution of the
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Speaker 1: United States of America protects everybody. And I know you're
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Speaker 1: in trouble, Wendy. They're in tvel when they start quoting
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Speaker 1: the Constitution, because there's nothing in the law that's going
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Speaker 1: to protect this cy Wendy. When they start when the
14:07
Speaker 1: defense starts quoting the Constitution, I know they're in deep
14:11
Speaker 1: doo doo. That's true. You only start, you only go
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Speaker 1: there when you have nothing else. And it's you know,
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Speaker 1: it's because it's indefensible. It is indefensible. Comes with the
14:22
Speaker 1: constitution again, Come at me, man, I'm ready. What the
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Speaker 1: defense attorneys need to do here is try and save
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Speaker 1: his life. And so what we are looking to do
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Speaker 1: is to have to save his life. We're looking to
14:39
Speaker 1: take the death penalty off the table. And so the
14:43
Speaker 1: entire purpose of the defense is to not try and
14:48
Speaker 1: have him be found not guilty, but it's to try
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Speaker 1: and spare him from the death penalty. You know, it's
14:56
Speaker 1: amazing how some people would interpret this is God getting
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Speaker 1: up in the middle of it again, because he was
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Speaker 1: actually tracked. He was ultimately brought down by a floppy
15:10
Speaker 1: disk that led police to trace it back to his church. Okay,
15:16
Speaker 1: so he by by Sunday mornings. Is this church goer,
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Speaker 1: worshiping family man. The whole time he's out as a
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Speaker 1: dog catcher tracking scoping out victims in various neighborhoods all
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Speaker 1: over town. To John Limley, Crime online dot Com investigative reporter,
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Speaker 1: tell me about his crimes, Nancy, the really interesting thing
15:46
Speaker 1: is to go back to the very first of those
15:49
Speaker 1: crimes and two of two for a moment. Take this
15:53
Speaker 1: from the point of view of the survivors and the victims.
15:59
Speaker 1: Charlie o Terra was a fifteen year old boy. He
16:03
Speaker 1: had had a great day on this January afternoon. He
16:07
Speaker 1: had aged. Okay, when you say something like that, John,
16:10
Speaker 1: I know something bad it's about to happen. When you
16:12
Speaker 1: say he had a great day, or like it was
16:15
Speaker 1: a sunny afternoon, that's how you always do it, John Lily,
16:19
Speaker 1: and you stabbed me. Go ahead, a Sonny, Okay, go ahead.
16:22
Speaker 1: So as Charlie o Tera is crossing the street to
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Speaker 1: his family's white bungalow, he sees that the garage door
16:31
Speaker 1: is open and his mother's car is missing right there.
16:36
Speaker 1: He knows something is not right because his mother is
16:39
Speaker 1: always there to greet him when he gets home from school,
16:43
Speaker 1: so he walks around back trying to figure out what's
16:45
Speaker 1: going on. The family dog then runs toward him across
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Speaker 1: the snow. No one ever let this dog, a German
16:53
Speaker 1: Shepherd mix, Lucky, out of the house outside alone. At least,
16:58
Speaker 1: Charlie walks into the kid notices a half made peanut
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Speaker 1: butter sandwich sitting on the table besides an empty lunch lunchbox.
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Speaker 1: It seems that his fourteen year old brother and thirteen
17:10
Speaker 1: year old sister had returned home just minutes before him
17:14
Speaker 1: and Carmen the girl comes running and says, come quick,
17:18
Speaker 1: Mom and dad are playing a bad joke on us.
17:20
Speaker 1: It's anything but a joke. From the doorway of his
17:24
Speaker 1: parents bedroom, Charlie sees his dad on the carpet by
17:28
Speaker 1: the bed. He has been strangled with a belt. Um.
17:32
Speaker 1: He's a handsome guy, but his features were grotesquely swollen.
17:37
Speaker 1: His mother lay on the mattress of some clothesline, clinched
17:42
Speaker 1: and cinched around her neck. Both of them had been
17:45
Speaker 1: bound with thin cord at the wrists and ankles. And
17:49
Speaker 1: at this point, uh, they think that another brother and
17:53
Speaker 1: sister are still at school, but they'll find out differently. Unfortunately,
17:58
Speaker 1: when you say that, it just breaks my heart because
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Speaker 1: it makes me think of my own children coming in
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Speaker 1: to find such a horrible thing. I want you to
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Speaker 1: hear from his own mouth. Dennis Writer, describing very unemotionally
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Speaker 1: the Otero family his first victims. You really talked to
18:29
Speaker 1: me about, uh, you know, giving the car and whatever money.
18:32
Speaker 1: I guess he didn't have very much money. And D
18:37
Speaker 1: there I realized that, you know, I was already I
18:41
Speaker 1: didn't have a mask on everything. They already could I
18:43
Speaker 1: d me and made it made a decision to go
18:49
Speaker 1: ahead and shut them down. I guess I'm strangling. I
18:54
Speaker 1: had never strangled anyone before, so I really don't know
18:57
Speaker 1: how much pressure you had to put on a person,
18:59
Speaker 1: or how long would a strangle Mrs Ltarrell And she
19:03
Speaker 1: went out or passed out. I thought she was dead.
19:06
Speaker 1: She passed out, And I strangled Josephine she passed out
19:11
Speaker 1: or I thought she was dead, and and then I
19:14
Speaker 1: went over and put uh and then put a bag on.
19:19
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19:23
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21:32
Speaker 1: Case closed? I rest He only talked to me about, uh,
21:38
Speaker 1: you know, giving the car and whatever money. I guess
21:40
Speaker 1: it didn't have very much money. And there I realized that,
21:47
Speaker 1: you know, I was already I didn't have a mask
21:49
Speaker 1: on everything. They already that I d me and made it,
21:55
Speaker 1: made a decision to go ahead and shut them down.
21:59
Speaker 1: I guess the England. I had never strangled anyone before,
22:03
Speaker 1: so I really don't know how much pressure you had
22:05
Speaker 1: to put on a person or how long it would
22:07
Speaker 1: take a strangler. Mrs Oltarrell and she went out or
22:11
Speaker 1: passed out. I thought she was dead. She passed out,
22:14
Speaker 1: and I strangled Josephine. She passed out or I thought
22:18
Speaker 1: she was dead, and then I went over and put
22:22
Speaker 1: it uh and then put a bag on. Junior said,
22:27
Speaker 1: you are hearing bt K bind torture kill, serial killer
22:31
Speaker 1: Dennish writer The Dog Catcher, describing with very little emotion,
22:36
Speaker 1: how he quote put him down, how he killed the
22:40
Speaker 1: Otero family. But that's just the tip of the iceberg.
22:45
Speaker 1: Listen to what he says next. Josephine had walked back up.
22:49
Speaker 1: I took her to the basement and eventually hung her.
22:54
Speaker 1: I had some sexual fantasies, but that was after she
22:58
Speaker 1: was hung. M to the house kind of cleaned it up.
23:02
Speaker 1: It's called the right handed Early you go from a
23:04
Speaker 1: river room. UM picked everything to up. I think I
23:07
Speaker 1: took Mr Carroll's watch there. I guess I took a radio.
23:12
Speaker 1: I forgot about that, but apparently I took a radio.
23:15
Speaker 1: Did you hear what he just said? He's talking about
23:19
Speaker 1: killing Mr and Mrs Otero, but then he goes on
23:23
Speaker 1: on to talk about killing very dispassionately Josephine O Tero. Josephine.
23:33
Speaker 1: He hung Josephine. She was just eleven years old. He
23:39
Speaker 1: hung her in the basement. Josephine O Tero to John
23:46
Speaker 1: Limley Crime online dot Com investigative reporter. I'm looking at
23:50
Speaker 1: photos right now as they haul out on a gurnee,
23:56
Speaker 1: A little body covered with a blanket and just slow
24:00
Speaker 1: like the brother says, there's snow outside. It's just you know,
24:04
Speaker 1: a suburban home. They're walking up the path. A body
24:08
Speaker 1: is being removed from the scene of B t k's
24:11
Speaker 1: first known murders, Joseph, Julie, Josephine, and Joseph the Second,
24:24
Speaker 1: all four of them found dead in their home. I'm
24:30
Speaker 1: looking at them, and I'm looking at the little boy,
24:32
Speaker 1: Joseph Tero the Second and little Josephine. How was Josephine found?
24:40
Speaker 1: John Lemley Joey had been asphyxiated with a plastic bag
24:44
Speaker 1: in his bedroom. Josie's partially clad body was hanging from
24:49
Speaker 1: a pipe in the basement. Dr Bethany Marshall's psychoanalyst, joining
24:53
Speaker 1: me from l A. He said he had a sexual fantasy.
24:59
Speaker 1: He's line. He lived out that sexual fantasy. That little girl.
25:06
Speaker 1: He lived it out, that little girl hanging in the basement. Nancy,
25:12
Speaker 1: you know, we know that certain animals are born with
25:16
Speaker 1: a predatory instinct, like say a lion on the savannah
25:19
Speaker 1: might eat a Springbok and not think twice about it.
25:23
Speaker 1: It's lunch. It's bad for the Springbok, but Line doesn't
25:26
Speaker 1: think much about it. That's what we call cold blooded.
25:30
Speaker 1: And this is very rare amongst humans. But some human
25:34
Speaker 1: beings are born with a very strong predatory instinct and killing.
25:40
Speaker 1: It's just like an animal that's trying to get its lunch.
25:43
Speaker 1: It's that inconsequential to them. And when I hear the
25:47
Speaker 1: BTK killer in court and then these interviews say, yeah,
25:51
Speaker 1: I had to apply a little more pressure. Oh you
25:53
Speaker 1: know what. He he tore the bag that was over
25:55
Speaker 1: his head, so I put another bag over his head
25:59
Speaker 1: just to make sure he was dead. I hear something
26:02
Speaker 1: called alexithymia, and alexithymia is when a person uses the
26:07
Speaker 1: same words you and I might use, but the meanings
26:10
Speaker 1: are very thin, like put a bag over his head,
26:13
Speaker 1: hang her in the basement, apply more pressure. These will
26:17
Speaker 1: be horrifying things for us to say, but they have
26:21
Speaker 1: absolutely no meaning to the bt K killer. And then
26:24
Speaker 1: you put that sexual overlay on it. That for a
26:28
Speaker 1: human being who cannot feel, there are no emotions about anything,
26:33
Speaker 1: this kind of a sociopath is going to have a
26:36
Speaker 1: very difficult time with sexual arousal because he's not going
26:38
Speaker 1: to be able to feel sexual arousal in normal ways
26:42
Speaker 1: with with a same age sex partner. So what he's
26:45
Speaker 1: going to do is inflict cruelty on his victims in
26:48
Speaker 1: order to enhance his sexual arousal. And and and this is
26:51
Speaker 1: this is the distinction of literature between sociopaths and psychopaths.
26:56
Speaker 1: Sociopaths are just mean, heartless they commit crimes. With the hycopath,
27:00
Speaker 1: you have the additional the addition of cruelty and the
27:03
Speaker 1: commission of the crime. To Dr William Maroney, medical examiner
27:07
Speaker 1: joining us an author of a new book on Amazon
27:10
Speaker 1: American Narcan, Dr Maroney, he speaks Dennish writer B. T. K.
27:15
Speaker 1: Speaks so dispassionately, so unemotionally in court it's like he's
27:21
Speaker 1: reading a medical document about how he murdered his victims,
27:25
Speaker 1: including hanging the nine year old little girl before having
27:28
Speaker 1: a sex fantasy on her. Dr Maroney, what does the
27:32
Speaker 1: victim live through when they are strangled dead? Strangulation is
27:37
Speaker 1: part of a much larger cole morbid condition called asphyxia UM.
27:44
Speaker 1: I try to simplify that down. Asphyxia is the lack
27:49
Speaker 1: of oxygen to the brain. Blood brings oxygen to the brain.
27:55
Speaker 1: Asphyxia is caused by obviously strangulation, uh, carbon monoxide, drowning,
28:03
Speaker 1: drug overdose, any other kind of gas that replaces the environment,
28:07
Speaker 1: respiratory disease, sleep apnea. But here strangulation is the cause
28:12
Speaker 1: of asphyxia. So you slowly kind of wander off into
28:18
Speaker 1: the fog and then you never wake up. But in
28:21
Speaker 1: a strangulation there is the violent struggle. You are physically
28:28
Speaker 1: being assaulted to shut down the blood to your brain
28:34
Speaker 1: by the assailants. And while he's this passionately talking about
28:40
Speaker 1: this in court, it's a very active, full contact, negative experience.
28:48
Speaker 1: But we should never really forget this man tortured animals
28:55
Speaker 1: as he was growing up. Torturing, Q means was just
29:01
Speaker 1: the next logical step in some sick pathway. So he's
29:06
Speaker 1: b t k T stands for torturing. Strangulation is torturing.
29:12
Speaker 1: He tortured animals as a child. This is why we
29:15
Speaker 1: tell our kids leave the catalone, leave the dog, don't
29:19
Speaker 1: you know, ignore that, don't don't pour gasoline on the
29:23
Speaker 1: ant hill and burn the ants. We we try to
29:26
Speaker 1: preserve the message of life around our children and create
29:30
Speaker 1: more positive things so that we don't lead them to
29:34
Speaker 1: the path of strangling families. But he tortured animals growing up,
29:39
Speaker 1: and he had a fetish about women's underwear his whole life.
29:44
Speaker 1: Mixing those two things, it's it's not surprising the strangled
29:49
Speaker 1: people and he had sexual fetishes. There's a lot of
29:52
Speaker 1: negative things here, But suffocating people, asphyxiating people, they they
29:59
Speaker 1: fall away on left. It's strangling. It's violent, and it's
30:03
Speaker 1: a very full contact experience. Isn't true? Dr Maroney that
30:07
Speaker 1: when you recover a strangulation victim's body, sometimes their neck
30:15
Speaker 1: is like um three or four inches wide. Their whole
30:20
Speaker 1: neck has been contorted and constricted so much it stays
30:27
Speaker 1: that way. Well, there's a big part of the neck
30:29
Speaker 1: that compresses. The blood vessels are full of blood. Ordinarily
30:34
Speaker 1: they're pumping, and you shut them down. You close them
30:39
Speaker 1: so all the blood that's in the head that has
30:41
Speaker 1: no oxygen is stuck there, and all the fresh blood
30:45
Speaker 1: below the belt or the rope or the grasp of
30:49
Speaker 1: the hands. So it is basically plumbing and you're shutting
30:55
Speaker 1: off the oxygen that that's carried by the blood and
30:59
Speaker 1: if you strangle somebody hard enough, you squeave them down
31:04
Speaker 1: to the bones of their throat in their spine. Listen
31:08
Speaker 1: to Beverly Platt, his sister Nancy was murdered by Dennish writer.
31:16
Speaker 1: I lost a friend, confidante. My children will never have
31:21
Speaker 1: an aunt. I'll never have another sister. Nancy's death is
31:29
Speaker 1: like a deep wound that will never ever heal. As
31:34
Speaker 1: far as I'm concerned, Dennis Raider does not deserve to live.
31:38
Speaker 1: I want him to suffer as much as he made
31:42
Speaker 1: his victims suffer. But then when I think about that,
31:47
Speaker 1: and he is sick, perverted way, he'd probably find that
31:51
Speaker 1: as some kind of pleasure or reward. This man needs
31:54
Speaker 1: to be thrown in a deep, dark hole and left
31:58
Speaker 1: to rot. He should never ever see the light of day.
32:02
Speaker 1: And I have some afterlife scenarios for him. On the
32:06
Speaker 1: day he dies, Nancy and all of his victims will
32:10
Speaker 1: be waiting with God and watching him as he burns
32:13
Speaker 1: in hell. Her execution by that monster was. You know,
32:22
Speaker 1: he's got to go on and live his life thirty
32:24
Speaker 1: one years now, with raising a family and children and
32:29
Speaker 1: career and everything. And you know he snapped out ten
32:32
Speaker 1: people's lives right now. He's not any remorse, no remorse,
32:37
Speaker 1: no compassion. No, he had no mercy, and I think
32:42
Speaker 1: that's what he ought to receive. No. I just you'll
32:45
Speaker 1: pray that he'll get the toughest sentence possible. I just
32:53
Speaker 1: so Charlie was saying, he's being judged here now but eternity,
32:59
Speaker 1: and he stands before the Lord pre eternity through his judgment.
33:03
Speaker 1: If he's still in his sins that he's committed here,
33:06
Speaker 1: he will spend it by himself in darkness. And you
33:11
Speaker 1: know that's that's what I'd like to tell him. You're
33:14
Speaker 1: hearing Kevin Bright, who survived the attack that killed his
33:18
Speaker 1: sister Catherine. You know what, I wish what he said
33:21
Speaker 1: were true, that he would live out the rest of
33:24
Speaker 1: his days before his death in remorse. But I I
33:28
Speaker 1: don't think he feels remorseful about it. If you listen
33:30
Speaker 1: to him in court, I mean, take a listen to
33:33
Speaker 1: Dennis Rader, who dubbed himself buying torture kill as he
33:40
Speaker 1: describes how he selected his victims, had many what I
33:46
Speaker 1: called him projects. There were different people in the town
33:48
Speaker 1: that I followed. Watch Kathleen Bryant was one of the
33:52
Speaker 1: next targets. I guess I would indicate just driving by
33:56
Speaker 1: one day and I saw her go in the house
33:58
Speaker 1: with somebody else, and I thought, that's a possibility. There
34:01
Speaker 1: was many many places in the area, College Hill even there,
34:05
Speaker 1: all over which telp anyway, that's it just was basically
34:08
Speaker 1: a selection process worked toward it. If it didn't work,
34:10
Speaker 1: I just move on to something else. But in the
34:14
Speaker 1: and then my kind of person was stocking and strolling.
34:17
Speaker 1: You go through the trolling stage and then the stocking stage.
34:20
Speaker 1: She was in the stocking stage when this happened. That's
34:23
Speaker 1: a possibility. To Dr Bethany Marshall's psychoanalyst out of l A,
34:28
Speaker 1: he saw the woman just walking in that and he's
34:31
Speaker 1: talking about Katherine Bright. You just heard her brother Kevin speaking,
34:36
Speaker 1: And he looked and he goes, well, that's a possibility.
34:38
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just like they have a total different mind.
34:42
Speaker 1: Then we have that. Yes, that is a possibility. Nancy.
34:48
Speaker 1: I used to have a cat who would bring me
34:50
Speaker 1: all kinds of little trophies and treasures. I've come home,
34:52
Speaker 1: there'd be a mouse on the front doorstep, or there'd
34:56
Speaker 1: be a lizard and invariably the cat would want to
34:59
Speaker 1: poss it around proudly. That cat looked so proud whenever
35:03
Speaker 1: it caught killed something and brought it to me. And
35:06
Speaker 1: I think about this Denis Rader as an animal, one
35:10
Speaker 1: of these rare people whose predatory instinct is on overdrive.
35:16
Speaker 1: And he's sitting in the court like a cat with
35:18
Speaker 1: passing a little mouse around saying oh, I did this,
35:21
Speaker 1: and then I did that, and he is happy about it.
35:24
Speaker 1: And you have the overlayer of the fact that he's
35:27
Speaker 1: a human. He has not a cat, he's not a tiger.
35:30
Speaker 1: This is a human being. And what do you get
35:33
Speaker 1: in human being? You get something that we call grandiosity,
35:36
Speaker 1: which is a core feature of sociopathy. He's grandios. He's
35:42
Speaker 1: having his day in court now he thinks he's actually
35:45
Speaker 1: like the venerated professor who's teaching everybody what it means
35:51
Speaker 1: to be a serial killer. Well, Step one, ladies and gentlemen,
35:57
Speaker 1: you drive down the street. Step two, do you identify
36:01
Speaker 1: your victims? Step three? And maybe not this one. I
36:04
Speaker 1: think I'll go look for another one. Can you hear
36:06
Speaker 1: how he feels he's teaching the people in the court.
36:09
Speaker 1: This is like a very sick, twisted version of grandiosity.
36:14
Speaker 1: And we've seen this in every sociopath we've covered on
36:17
Speaker 1: your show. Wendy Passion with me veteran California prosecutor that
36:21
Speaker 1: has handled many, many homicide prosecutions. Wendy, how did B. T. K.
36:26
Speaker 1: Dannish writer actually implement execute his crimes? You know, the
36:32
Speaker 1: short answer is easily, because he was somebody that wasn't
36:36
Speaker 1: a suspect. I mean, he had some status in his community.
36:39
Speaker 1: He had a job, he was a churchgoer, he had
36:42
Speaker 1: a family, Nancy, think about that. So when you have
36:45
Speaker 1: somebody like this that seems relatively unassuming and unsuspicious, it
36:49
Speaker 1: is easy for him to go out and find victims,
36:52
Speaker 1: as in his own words, troll them, then stock them,
36:55
Speaker 1: attack them, then kill them in a number of different ways,
36:58
Speaker 1: as we've seen over the years. So he was apparently
37:01
Speaker 1: able to move about freely without drawing suspicion. And that
37:05
Speaker 1: makes him one of the scariest and one of the
37:08
Speaker 1: most dangerous serial killers. But I hate to say it, Nancy,
37:11
Speaker 1: it follows the pattern of other killers just like him
37:14
Speaker 1: that lead apparently normal lives on the outside. I don't
37:18
Speaker 1: really understand the phenomena of him writing letters to taunt
37:23
Speaker 1: the public through the local news media, and Troy Slayton
37:27
Speaker 1: his methodical way of picking his victims and executing these crimes,
37:32
Speaker 1: sneaking into their house under different pretenses like being a
37:36
Speaker 1: repairman or somebody to check the gas mate or whatever.
37:39
Speaker 1: His pretext was, showed a lot of forethought. And he
37:44
Speaker 1: has so many victims. How do you even fashion a
37:48
Speaker 1: defense for that? Well, it's it's certainly not easy, and
37:53
Speaker 1: I think that the defense team here had certainly a
37:57
Speaker 1: tough job, and so it was focused, like I've like
38:02
Speaker 1: I've mentioned before, on purely trying to convince prosecutors that
38:09
Speaker 1: the pain of going through um it protracted litigation would
38:17
Speaker 1: would just cause more damage to the victims. That it
38:21
Speaker 1: would be better for the victims to be able to
38:23
Speaker 1: give their impact statements to the court, which they did,
38:27
Speaker 1: and for the State of Kansas to not uh seek
38:33
Speaker 1: to execute And as that's that's not going to bring
38:39
Speaker 1: any of the the tragic victims back to life? Is
38:43
Speaker 1: that is that how you justify it, Troy, that a
38:46
Speaker 1: death penalty won't bring the victims back. I mean, I've
38:49
Speaker 1: only known so far if one person brought back from
38:51
Speaker 1: the dead. I mean, unless you can't Lazarus. But I'm
38:55
Speaker 1: not expecting uh miracle. M of course he's not gonna,
39:01
Speaker 1: We're not. You can't bring the victims back. That's the
39:03
Speaker 1: whole point, Troice Layton Nancy. Yes, the defense attorney's job
39:08
Speaker 1: here was to prevent another killing the defendant him, and
39:16
Speaker 1: and they succeeded, and instead he will spend his life
39:22
Speaker 1: in prison. You know what, you speak of it like
39:25
Speaker 1: you're analyzing a problem in an algebra book. Listen to writer. Actually,
39:31
Speaker 1: on that one, she was completely random. There was actually
39:35
Speaker 1: someone across from Dylan's was potential target. Uh. It was
39:40
Speaker 1: called Project Green. I think I had project numbers and
39:43
Speaker 1: assigned a bit and that pickle day drove the Dylan's
39:47
Speaker 1: parking the parking lot, watched this particular residents, and then
39:51
Speaker 1: got out of the car and walked over to Uh,
39:54
Speaker 1: it's probably the police support the address. I don't remember
39:56
Speaker 1: the dress now knock Nobody Nobody answered it. So I
40:00
Speaker 1: was all keyed up. So I just started going through
40:03
Speaker 1: the neighborhood. I've been into the neighborhood before. I kind
40:05
Speaker 1: of knew a little little the layout of the neighborhood.
40:08
Speaker 1: I've been through the back alleys. Neuters and certain people
40:11
Speaker 1: live you know to you, uh, Cheryl McCullum, director of
40:16
Speaker 1: the Cold Case Research Institute. He kept writing the TV
40:19
Speaker 1: station k K A K E and Wichita, claiming responsibility
40:24
Speaker 1: for all the murders and suggesting names for himself, including
40:29
Speaker 1: B T K, demanding media attention until they finally announced
40:35
Speaker 1: publicly that Wichita had a serial killer. He even made
40:39
Speaker 1: a poem which was stealing the lyrics to an old
40:42
Speaker 1: folk song and he called it O Death to Nancy again.
40:46
Speaker 1: His ego played such a role in these cons it's
40:50
Speaker 1: again reminds me of Son of Sam. You know, he
40:53
Speaker 1: wrote poetry Zodiac. He contacts when the letters don't do it,
40:58
Speaker 1: he called, and for how sinister he tried to be.
41:01
Speaker 1: This is Zodiac, you know what I mean. They've given
41:04
Speaker 1: themselves nicknames. They're not just playing out these fantasies Nancy.
41:09
Speaker 1: They're living in Dr Moroney waite end. I want you
41:13
Speaker 1: to know that I feel a cold chill down my
41:16
Speaker 1: spine because I was a resident of Johnson County, Kansas.
41:22
Speaker 1: I lived in a Lake of Kansas, southwest of Kansas
41:27
Speaker 1: City during these crimes. And when I went to go
41:30
Speaker 1: take my medical board exams. I went to Wichita. I
41:36
Speaker 1: was here. I walked these streets. Now, ordinarily, you know,
41:42
Speaker 1: people don't turn out to be this cold and destriver
41:44
Speaker 1: and looking for people to kill. Uh. And and people
41:48
Speaker 1: could say, you know, Kansas could be kind of a
41:50
Speaker 1: boring place. There's not a lot going on. But I
41:54
Speaker 1: walked these streets and I just have a very cold
41:58
Speaker 1: almost like somebody open the door and it's February and
42:02
Speaker 1: the the curtains are blowing. Almost feel a need somewhere
42:07
Speaker 1: we all talk about this anymore. This guy needs an exorcist, okay,
42:14
Speaker 1: because ordinarily people in Kansas are hard working, good people.
42:18
Speaker 1: But he grew up the wrong way. This is this
42:21
Speaker 1: is evil again. I mean, we have to bring father
42:24
Speaker 1: Malachi Martin back from New York, uh to exercise him.
42:30
Speaker 1: You know, Dr William Roney, I don't always expect a
42:33
Speaker 1: dispassionate medical examiner to talk about exorcism of the devil,
42:37
Speaker 1: but thank you for throwing that bone in there. Up.
42:41
Speaker 1: Let me just say these names out loud. Joseph Otero
42:46
Speaker 1: thirty eight, Julie Ato thirty three, Joseph Otero junior, age nine,
42:53
Speaker 1: Josephine Ato eleven, Katherine Brighte, Shirley Van twenty four, Nancy Fox,
43:03
Speaker 1: Marine Hedge fifty three, Vicky Wagieri, Dolores Davis sixty two
43:10
Speaker 1: that we know of, and I think somewhere out there
43:14
Speaker 1: in the universe, all of them agree with me. Dennistrator
43:19
Speaker 1: rot in Hell, Nancy Grace's crime story, signing off Goodbye friend,