Latest / Bright Star Kids Parenting Podcast / Episode 4: Why is Breast Feeding This Hard?

Transcript

Episode 4: Why is Breast Feeding This Hard? · Bright Star Kids Parenting Podcast

• 0:00
  Dimity: Welcome to the Bright Star Kids Parenting Podcast.
• 0:03
  Dimity: In this episode, we're going to be talking about all things feeding babies.
• 0:07
  Susan: Breastfeeding, toddler, foods, all that stuff.
• 0:12
  Susan: The ups and downs, the real life stories.
• 0:14
  Susan: And if you've ever struggled or you are currently struggling with feeding your kids, today's episode is going to be perfect for you.
• 0:22
  Susan: So Dimity, tell me about your journey of feeding your two babies.
• 0:26
  Dimity: Yeah?
• 0:26
  Dimity: Yep.
• 0:27
  Dimity: Okay, so I have Poppy.
• 0:29
  Dimity: She was my first baby.
• 0:30
  Dimity: She actually had intrauterine growth restriction, which is where they're like really tiny in the in the womb.
• 0:35
  Dimity: I was induced at 38 weeks with her, and the reasoning was always she'll be better at getting fed than she will be in there.
• 0:43
  Dimity: Because my placenta kind of gave up a little bit, was how they explained it to me.
• 0:47
  Dimity: So when she was born, there was a lot of pressure on me to make sure she was getting enough food, having the amount of feeds that they're meant to have as newborns.
• 0:56
  Dimity: Even when I was in the hospital breastfeeding, they were giving formula top-ups because they then she needed to put weight on.
• 1:03
  Dimity: She was only 2.3 kilos when she was born and in like below the tenth percentile.
• 1:08
  Dimity: So after about two weeks of breastfeeding and doing formula top-ups, I was just too anxious and stressed about how much she was in like the intake that she was having.
• 1:19
  Dimity: I couldn't see how much she was taking on the boob or anything.
• 1:22
  Dimity: So I ended up going straight to formula, which was a really hard decision for me to make because I was so set on breastfeeding her.
• 1:30
  Susan: Everybody goes on about breastfeeding's best, and it is obviously it's amazing if you can do it.
• 1:35
  Susan: But were you terrified of going onto formula?
• 1:37
  Susan: Tell me about some of the things that you were worried about.
• 1:40
  Dimity: Yeah, I was absolutely terrified.
• 1:41
  Dimity: I was I'm such a people pleaser, which is such a silly thing when it comes to, you know, having kids.
• 1:47
  Dimity: But I was worried about what other people were gonna think and that they were gonna say things to me like, Well, you know, you gave up, you should have tried harder.
• 1:57
  Susan: There it's a very common thing.
• 1:59
  Dimity: Yeah, there are even people said who would say, like, well, there are other resources out there, like, why don't you go to a lactation consultant?
• 2:05
  Dimity: Why don't you go and do this and that?
• 2:06
  Dimity: There were also comments made like, Oh, you know, well, Daddy's gotta go to work to pay for the formula that you're gonna
• 2:12
  Susan: Oh wow.
• 2:13
  Susan: So that was that's wild.
• 2:15
  Dimity: Yeah, it was it was a really tough and you know, I already felt guilty.
• 2:20
  Susan: Yeah, so for me, I had the same thing.
• 2:22
  Susan: Um, I gave birth to Jamie, but um I was so traumatized by the delivery and I was like just crying constantly.
• 2:31
  Susan: And I we brought him home probably a little bit too early.
• 2:34
  Dimity: Okay, how how long ago?
• 2:35
  Susan: Uh so I just wanted to get out of the hospital, so I had uh probably um like two nights in there and I was just done.
• 2:41
  Susan: I was like, I want to go home.
• 2:43
  Susan: I thought everything was fine.
• 2:44
  Susan: I it looked everyone was like, "Oh yeah, you got a great latch, everything was perfect." Um, look like all was going well.
• 2:51
  Susan: But when I brought him home, the he basically the like a werewolf, as the dusk would come, yeah, he would cry.
• 2:59
  Dimity: Yeah.
• 2:59
  Susan: And he would cry and cry and cry and cry.
• 3:02
  Susan: So much so that Nigel and his mum ended up bringing him out for a drive.
• 3:06
  Susan: It was the only way to get him to sleep at four o'clock in the morning.
• 3:09
  Susan: And just so I could have a little bit of a break.
• 3:12
  Susan: This newborn baby, who's the most precious thing in the world to you, is just like you're not giving it.
• 3:21
  Susan: I was a book girl, you know, I read all the things, you know, you're not meant to give a dummy, you're not meant to give none of that for me.
• 3:28
  Susan: It was all terrifying.
• 3:30
  Susan: And because my mum and my sister had breastfed so easily, I just presumed it would be fine for me.
• 3:34
  Susan: Just presumed everything would be fine.
• 3:36
  Dimity: You just think it's a natural thing, it's gonna happen.
• 3:38
  Susan: And like he was doing all of that, but um, unfortunately, my I just wasn't um making enough milk.
• 3:44
  Susan: Yeah, and so and you could see that with the breast pump, like I would I would pump for like an hour and have a this amount of milk, it was so tiny.
• 3:52
  Susan: But then all the um the different nurses who would come every day because they were obviously worried I had postnatal depression, I would cry all the time.
• 3:59
  Susan: Um, they uh they said, "Oh, don't worry about the breast pump because you don't necessarily know that that's how much milk you're gonna get." And a long story short, um day seven was uh like because the one of the nurses said, "Oh, he is actually a sucky baby, and you need to give him a dummy.
• 4:18
  Susan: "I'm like, "Oh, permission." Again, I was a very good girl.
• 4:21
  Susan: Wanted to pe ople please, wanted to follow the rules.
• 4:25
  Susan: Um, so I was like, oh my gosh, okay, I'm allowed to give him a dummy.
• 4:28
  Susan: So I went and we got him a dummy, and it was like amazing.
• 4:31
  Susan: He would just like it would stop him from crying so much.
• 4:33
  Susan: And then day 10, when I had tried the lactation consultant, I tried all these like pills to get the milk to come more out, all these things, anything I could do, I was doing.
• 4:44
  Susan: Um but even they said, "Do you know what?
• 4:47
  Susan: Actually, you're probably one of those people who just doesn't isn't gonna be producing enough milk and need to go on formula." Yeah, and I was terrified.
• 4:56
  Susan: I was thinking all the all the things that they say, you know, your baby's going to be overweight, your baby's going to be lacking in intelligence, your baby's gonna have all these allergies, all these things that terrified me.
• 5:07
  Susan: Yeah, and I was like, oh my god, what am I doing to my my precious baby?
• 5:11
  Susan: Anyway, Jamie's now 13, he's very slim.
• 5:14
  Susan: He moves far too much, that's probably why.
• 5:18
  Susan: He has no allergies, he's incredibly intelligent.
• 5:21
  Susan: So all those things that I was terrified about didn't come true.
• 5:25
  Susan: Now I'm not saying that they they aren't a fact or whatever, but all I'm saying is that there's a lot of scaremongering out there and it really makes me upset.
• 5:33
  Susan: And if a mum is very conscientious and she's trying her best, then they need to be given a break and go, it's okay if you can't breastfeed for whatever the reason it is, if it is damaging you psychologically, I think you need to consider formula.
• 5:50
  Dimity: Yeah, definitely, for sure.
• 5:52
  Dimity: I think also with Louie, I had a much better experience breastfeeding him.
• 5:56
  Dimity: Um, we breastfed, he was exclusively breastfed um for about the first four weeks, and then he did struggle on the boob a lot.
• 6:06
  Dimity: So I did, you know, there were times where he was just screaming, screaming, screaming, and I was like, "Why?
• 6:13
  Dimity: Why won't you like it?" And obviously, like my hormones are everywhere.
• 6:17
  Dimity: He's screaming.
• 6:18
  Dimity: I've also got a tired of it.
• 6:20
  Dimity: I've also got Poppy, you know, and Poppy, I was already upset because Poppy didn't really want a bar of me once Louie came.
• 6:26
  Dimity: So I was already struggling with all that, and you know, I'm I've got my boobs out, I'm sitting there in the chair, and he's just going, "Ah! Ah!" on my boob, and I just literally I couldn't, I couldn't stop myself, and I was screaming at him and I'm saying, "Why don't you want it?
• 6:40
  Dimity: What is going on?" And my husband came in and he was like, I really think I need to go and get a tin of formula.
• 6:47
  Dimity: And even though I had obviously Poppy had had the formula, I had this beautiful toddler in front of me who was smart and healthy, but I still thought to myself, I want to breastfeed this baby.
• 6:58
  Dimity: I want him to have the event.
• 7:00
  Susan: Like, I do want to put it out there.
• 7:01
  Susan: I am a massive believer in breastfeeding.
• 7:03
  Dimity: Definitely.
• 7:04
  Susan: Huge believer.
• 7:05
  Susan: If you can do it, fantastic.
• 7:07
  Susan: And I know so many women who have, and it's brilliant.
• 7:10
  Susan: Don't be like us and kill yourselves over if you can't do it.
• 7:14
  Dimity: Yeah.
• 7:15
  Susan: How did you end up going?
• 7:16
  Susan: Did you end up having going on formula for him, or did you end up uh still breastfeeding?
• 7:21
  Dimity: So we kind of did a mix of both.
• 7:22
  Dimity: I was still hellbent on breastfeeding.
• 7:25
  Dimity: So when my boobs were so sore, I still popped him on every now and then just to make sure he was getting uh, you know, any clogs out because they say, you know, they're better at getting the clogs out than the pump and things like that.
• 7:37
  Dimity: Yeah.
• 7:38
  Dimity: I was so I wanted him to have breast milk, so I exclusively pumped then for about four months after that.
• 7:46
  Dimity: And he was still having a formula every now and then.
• 7:50
  Dimity: Like I think he had one bottle and then the rest was all.
• 7:53
  Susan: How long did it take you to fill up a like to maybe do this much?
• 7:57
  Dimity: I would pump for half an hour sessions, and that was about that much.
• 8:00
  Dimity: Yeah.
• 8:00
  Susan: So for me, I pumped for an hour and I got like this much.
• 8:03
  Dimity: Yeah, but that I should also say that was probably from both.
• 8:06
  Dimity: Yeah, well that was from both.
• 8:08
  Susan: Yeah, okay.
• 8:08
  Susan: Yeah.
• 8:08
  Susan: Um I had no milk in my baby.
• 8:11
  Susan: Okay.
• 8:11
  Susan: So I just want to put it out there.
• 8:13
  Susan: If you're the same and you're pumping right now and you're getting a tiny amount, and the nurses keep telling you, "Oh, it's fine, your baby's probably getting more," I would highly argue that that isn't probably not the case.
• 8:25
  Dimity: For sure, for sure.
• 8:26
  Dimity: And I think it's also you see a lot of videos out there where these mums are pumping a ridiculous amount of milk, that's usually an oversupply.
• 8:35
  Susan: Right.
• 8:36
  Dimity: It's not a normal thing.
• 8:37
  Dimity: You should really only be producing enough for your baby.
• 8:40
  Dimity: If if you're producing enough for your baby, it's usually around like it's not that much.
• 8:45
  Dimity: Where if you see all these videos of these mums who are producing like it's usually an oversupply.
• 8:50
  Susan: Yeah.
• 8:50
  Susan: And so what did you do when you were pumping when you did have more than what uh what he needed?
• 8:56
  Dimity: I liked to have more.
• 8:57
  Dimity: Um, I didn't want to have a massive oversupply, but I did like to have more so that I could have it in the fridge so that if I needed to go out and someone else had to give him a bottle, um, they could.
• 9:06
  Susan: Which is one of the best things as well.
• 9:09
  Susan: Like, a bit more independent.
• 9:11
  Dimity: Yeah, definitely.
• 9:12
  Dimity: We had freezer bags.
• 9:13
  Dimity: I'd pour out the amount that um he would need for a bottle into each bag.
• 9:17
  Susan: Okay.
• 9:18
  Dimity: And then just use those throughout the day.
• 9:19
  Dimity: And usually it was the milk that I'd pumped previously that he was having.
• 9:23
  Susan: Okay.
• 9:23
  Dimity: Because it was just you had to have it in the fridge for a certain amount of time before you could freeze it.
• 9:27
  Dimity: And then we kind of like transitioned very slowly.
• 9:29
  Dimity: I was I was over pumping.
• 9:31
  Dimity: It takes a lot out of you.
• 9:34
  Susan: How many times did you do in a day?
• 9:36
  Dimity: When I first started, it was the amount of times that a baby would breastfeed.
• 9:40
  Susan: So like four or five times kind of thing.
• 9:41
  Susan: More?
• 9:42
  Dimity: Maybe more.
• 9:42
  Dimity: Whenever he woke up in the night to have a bottle, I would then, after putting him down after the bottle, then I would pump.
• 9:50
  Susan: Wow.
• 9:50
  Susan: So you're exhausted.
• 9:51
  Dimity: I kind of g ot to the point where I needed to show up for my toddler.
• 9:55
  Dimity: I needed to show up for myself, for my husband, and obviously for Louie for my baby.
• 9:59
  Susan: And you weren't working at that point.
• 10:00
  Susan: You're in a stay-at-home mom.
• 10:01
  Dimity: I was at least.
• 10:02
  Susan: For all day working mums out there? Cos' I know quite a few women who pump it, they have to go into the bathroom or wherever like and in back and and do it there.
• 10:13
  Dimity: And initially I thought to myself, oh, well, I'll just pump for as long as I'll go to work and I'll pump.
• 10:17
  Dimity: Like that's fine, I don't mind doing that.
• 10:19
  Dimity: But I couldn't anymore.
• 10:20
  Dimity: It was just too tired.
• 10:22
  Susan: And you do have to listen to yourself, it's very important.
• 10:24
  Dimity: Definitely.
• 10:24
  Dimity: Yeah.
• 10:24
  Susan: And this is where postnatal depression and all that kind of stuff kicks in.
• 10:27
  Dimity: For sure.
• 10:27
  Dimity: Yeah.
• 10:28
  Susan: Women ignoring what they need.
• 10:30
  Dimity: Yeah, exactly.
• 10:31
  Dimity: And because you've got this baby, you want to throw everything you have into them.
• 10:34
  Dimity: So it's just that your priorities kind of go out the window a little bit, which it shouldn't. But that's that was my experience anyway.
• 10:41
  Dimity: Um, and then I kind of cut down the pumps of like every second day.
• 10:47
  Dimity: I would do, you know, five pumps and then four pumps.
• 10:50
  Dimity: And then the first thing that went was the overnight pump, because I thought, no, I can't, I can't wake up anymore.
• 10:55
  Dimity: So that was the first thing that went.
• 10:56
  Dimity: And then it was kind of like oh, twice a day, and then once, and then I was like, okay, yeah, I think I'm ready now.
• 11:04
  Dimity: My boobs were a little bit sore, but the gradual uh drop of the pumps really helped.
• 11:11
  Susan: And you didn't have to use the cabbage leaves that people talk about?
• 11:13
  Dimity: I didn't have to, yeah, no.
• 11:15
  Susan: So that's how I knew that I didn't have much like breast milk.
• 11:18
  Susan: It's because I was pumping, I pumped for six weeks.
• 11:20
  Susan: And for me, it was like um I absolutely was just like at the end of it because I was literally like pumping and tiniest amount.
• 11:29
  Susan: Liquid gold, I called because it was so tiny.
• 11:32
  Susan: I was topping him up with formula, probably like at that 10-day mark.
• 11:36
  Susan: Yeah.
• 11:36
  Susan: And then I I around six weeks I went exclusively to formula.
• 11:40
  Susan: The tipping point for me was I had pumped this tiny amount of liquid gold, and I had was so tired, I actually poured it down the sink.
• 11:54
  Susan: And I cried.
• 11:56
  Susan: Oh, yeah.
• 11:56
  Susan: I cried so much, and that was it for me.
• 12:00
  Susan: I was like, I am losing my mind.
• 12:02
  Susan: And Nigel was so supportive, he didn't mind whatever I wanted to do.
• 12:06
  Susan: I was very headstrong, and I unless you were a parenting expert, I was not going to listen to you, you know.
• 12:13
  Susan: So funny, yeah.
• 12:15
  Susan: Um, and that's I think a lot of mums out there now, they're so caught up on like all these experts, and it's great if it works for you.
• 12:22
  Susan: If it doesn't work for you, you need to listen to your gut and you need to decide what is right for you and your baby.
• 12:28
  Susan: So now we're gonna move on to the next topic, which is moving your baby who's grown up and either from formula or breastfeeding, and they're if they're breastfed, they're gonna start getting a bit like grumpy because they're not getting enough.
• 12:42
  Dimity: They're hungry.
• 12:43
  Susan: Yeah, so they need to transition to solids.
• 12:45
  Susan: Now that can range in age.
• 12:48
  Susan: I know some some kids who were like earlier than six months.
• 12:52
  Dimity: Yeah.
• 12:52
  Dimity: Poppy was earlier than six months.
• 12:54
  Susan: Was she?
• 12:54
  Susan: Yeah.
• 12:54
  Susan: Jamie was like nine months, I think.
• 12:56
  Dimity: Yeah, wow.
• 12:57
  Susan: He's just so skinny.
• 12:58
  Susan: Yeah, like he literally, like now, even still, like I'm still kind of going, come on, eat, eat, eat.
• 13:03
  Susan: It's this constant thing.
• 13:05
  Susan: Um, and so I think for me now looking back, he's just always been a kid who didn't need much food.
• 13:10
  Susan: Yeah.
• 13:11
  Susan: And so, like I used to back, if we want to go back to the feeding him in the middle of the night, I would spend at least an hour giving him the recommended amount of the formula.
• 13:21
  Susan: And I because he can see how much as well, I was like, come on, like please.
• 13:26
  Susan: Yeah, and just yeah, the absolute torture of that, trying to keep to the recommended feeding.
• 13:31
  Dimity: Yeah, that's I had actually a terrible experience with that.
• 13:34
  Dimity: She was so tiny, poppy, and on the the tin it said, you need to she needs to have this specific amount.
• 13:40
  Dimity: And I'm there holding a feeding of this bottle, and she just wasn't taking it.
• 13:44
  Dimity: And I was like, "Oh, come on, what's going on?" So I kept putting it in, she suck a little bit, I take it out, put it in, suck a little bit, take it out.
• 13:50
  Dimity: And then I sat her up and she projectile vomited everywhere.
• 13:54
  Dimity: And that was my first like, "Oh my gosh!" like I've caused my baby discomfort.
• 14:01
  Dimity: And she's after she'd done all that, she was screaming, and I'm thinking to myself, "Oh my god, what have I done?" Like, I've hurt her.
• 14:08
  Dimity: That was my one thought was I've hurt this baby.
• 14:10
  Dimity: Um, and that was the moment that I decided no more um following the tin.
• 14:18
  Dimity: She will eat what she wants what she wants.
• 14:21
  Susan: I wish I had known that.
• 14:22
  Susan: Yeah, because I like he, you know, what can you do?
• 14:25
  Susan: Like he just ate what he ate.
• 14:27
  Dimity: So, Susan, tell me about uh your experience with Jamie and um giving him solids, uh like puree's things like that.
• 14:34
  Susan: Yeah, so uh, well, basically, like I think it was around six months, that's when they were recommending, you know, to uh give your baby solids.
• 14:43
  Susan: So I decided that I would try the rice powder, which is what everybody recommends, whether it's correct or not, I don't know.
• 14:50
  Susan: Um and so yeah, so I made up all this little rice powder and it was all like it was slushy and horrible, really.
• 14:56
  Susan: And I gave it to him and he was like, "Oh yuck!" and it was really funny he did not want it at all.
• 15:02
  Susan: So um he ended up I he went and had a little nap like an hour or so later, and I think he actually had a little nightmare or a bit of rice powder.
• 15:12
  Susan: So basically, we didn't bother trying to do it again for a while.
• 15:16
  Susan: It wasn't really until it was nine months that he really properly kind of got into the solid food.
• 15:21
  Susan: Uh, what about you?
• 15:23
  Dimity: Um, so I started at four months with Poppy actually, because the doctor had recommended because she was still so small.
• 15:28
  Dimity: Okay.
• 15:29
  Dimity: The doctor said, you know, you can probably give her some solid food.
• 15:32
  Dimity: So I started with Pure Ace at four months with Poppy.
• 15:36
  Dimity: Yeah.
• 15:36
  Dimity: And then Louie, he was six months.
• 15:38
  Dimity: I waited till six months for him.
• 15:39
  Dimity: And did she like this early?
• 15:40
  Dimity: She did like it when it was from a pouch.
• 15:42
  Susan: Yeah, I'll tell you about my uh kind of because I guess it was my guilt of not being able to breastfeed Jamie.
• 15:49
  Susan: I absolutely 100% was like, "I'm gonna make everything from scratch," it's all gonna be homemade, there's gonna be no salt, no sugar, no nothing, you know, super healthy.
• 15:58
  Susan: And so I made this massive big batch.
• 16:00
  Susan: Now it didn't follow a recipe, but I'm a pretty good cook, so I thought I've got this.
• 16:04
  Susan: So all sorts of vegetables I put into it, um, and it honestly didn't look very good at the end.
• 16:11
  Susan: Once I like pro, you know, mashed it all up and everything.
• 16:13
  Susan: But I'm like, well, he's a baby, he probably doesn't know much better.
• 16:16
  Susan: So um I gave it to him.
• 16:18
  Susan: I was very excited.
• 16:19
  Susan: I gave him the you know the food, and he no, he absolutely did not want it at all.
• 16:27
  Susan: I was devastated, like my heart and like broke into a million pieces.
• 16:33
  Susan: I was so, so upset.
• 16:35
  Susan: Yeah, and I'd made such a gigantic batch and I'd put it all into these frozen trays.
• 16:40
  Susan: I ate so much I probably could have fed him for at least three to six months.
• 16:44
  Dimity: Wow, yeah.
• 16:47
  Susan: And then he didn't like it.
• 16:48
  Susan: So then I'm thinking all this time and effort I've gotten to chopping up all the vegetables, cooking them, puring them, everything, all wasted.
• 16:55
  Susan: The rejection that was the hardest.
• 16:57
  Susan: I could have dealt with the time, but the rejection.
• 17:00
  Susan: So, so soul crushing.
• 17:02
  Susan: Um, and so unfortunately, I decided that I was okay.
• 17:06
  Susan: I'm gonna have to go to the jars in the supermarket and uh and try them out.
• 17:10
  Susan: I didn't have the emotional attachment.
• 17:12
  Susan: So when he didn't like any of those jars, it was fine.
• 17:15
  Susan: I didn't care.
• 17:15
  Susan: And it's like, yeah, I wasted a bit of money, but like whatever, uh, try the next flavour.
• 17:21
  Susan: He ended up loving spinach, the spinach pouch.
• 17:24
  Susan: But the reason why he loved it, which I figured out, it wasn't really spinach at all.
• 17:28
  Susan: When you look at the ingredients of your of these pouches, pretty much the biggest ingredient is apple puree.
• 17:34
  Susan: At least 40%.
• 17:36
  Susan: Sometimes 60, 70 or more.
• 17:39
  Susan: The spinach actually content was around, I think it was 8%.
• 17:43
  Dimity: Yeah.
• 17:43
  Susan: How can you call it spinach?
• 17:45
  Susan: It should be apple puree plus a tiny bit of spinach.
• 17:48
  Susan: Uh so you know, there's a lot of like marketing, like kind of foolery stuff going .
• 17:53
  Susan: Um, but when I when I realised the apple puree trick, I said, okay.
• 17:58
  Susan: Luckily, I'd saved all of my frozen puree in the freezer, and I decided I would get it out and I would create my own apple puree.
• 18:06
  Susan: And so I did, and I mixed the apple puree in with the food that I had made, and then he loved it.
• 18:12
  Susan: So that's a great trick for anybody out there who is struggling with like trying to transition your baby from the breast milk or formula to actual solids.
• 18:21
  Susan: If they're not eating your homemade delicious stuff, try and put in a little bit of puree.
• 18:26
  Susan: I know that obviously a lot of people are very anti-sugar nowadays, um, but if it makes your kid eat it, then you can always try a little bit and a little bit more until you get to the point where they're they are actually willing to eat it.
• 18:41
  Susan: And then you can always maybe like wean them off a little bit, but that's my experience of that.
• 18:47
  Susan: Yes.
• 18:47
  Susan: Now, what about what about you?
• 18:49
  Susan: Did you do your solid food?
• 18:51
  Dimity: Yeah, so um with Poppy, we started at four months on pure es, and um her first one was carrot, which she didn't mind.
• 19:00
  Susan: Yeah, see, that's sweet.
• 19:02
  Dimity: Yeah, it's sweet.
• 19:02
  Dimity: Exactly.
• 19:03
  Dimity: Um, and then kind of moved into there was avocado, mashed up some avocado for her, um, which again she didn't mind, but then the further we got away from the sweet stuff...
• 19:12
  Susan: Yes.
• 19:12
  Dimity: ...the more she was like, "Uh, I don't want that."
• 19:14
  Susan: Yes, you wonder if you started with the more savory.
• 19:19
  Dimity: Yeah.
• 19:19
  Dimity: It doesn't matter.
• 19:20
  Susan: Who knows?
• 19:20
  Dimity: We did that.
• 19:21
  Dimity: I think I started then giving her like solid foods, like proper, you know, I think her first thing was a piece of avocado toast.
• 19:27
  Susan: Okay.
• 19:28
  Dimity: Gave it to her to feed herself.
• 19:30
  Dimity: Okay.
• 19:30
  Dimity: And that was about well, I think I waited till six months for that one because the recommendation is obviously six months solid food.
• 19:38
  Dimity: So I waited until then and she loved it.
• 19:40
  Dimity: She loved being able to feed herself.
• 19:42
  Susan: Yeah, it's that control aspect, isn't it?
• 19:45
  Dimity: Yeah, for sure.
• 19:45
  Dimity: The thing that I struggled with the most after that was how to serve the solid food to her because it can be very challenging and scary when there's choking risks involved.
• 20:00
  Susan: Oh god, yeah.
• 20:01
  Susan: I think that's for me what I was so terrified about.
• 20:03
  Susan: I didn't give Jamie, I don't think, anything actually like what you're talking about.
• 20:08
  Susan: Maybe till he was over one.
• 20:10
  Dimity: Yeah, okay.
• 20:11
  Susan: It was terrible.
• 20:12
  Susan: I was full-on, puree the whole way.
• 20:15
  Dimity: But it's it's valid because it's a scary thing.
• 20:17
  Susan: Yeah, especially as a new mom.
• 20:19
  Dimity: Yeah, and especially also if you don't have that training behind you to know exactly what to do with a baby.
• 20:25
  Dimity: It can be very scary.
• 20:27
  Susan: Like, I know it was only 13 years ago, but there just wasn't as much information online.
• 20:31
  Susan: Not that I could find.
• 20:33
  Susan: Yeah.
• 20:33
  Susan: You know, I don't even know if Instagram was a thing.
• 20:36
  Dimity: Yeah, okay.
• 20:37
  Susan: Maybe it was, but like it was still quite.
• 20:39
  Dimity: Maybe not as big, yeah.
• 20:40
  Susan: Yeah.
• 20:40
  Susan: So I feel like there's so much information out, nearly it's overload.
• 20:44
  Susan: Yeah.
• 20:44
  Susan: It's actually like you just don't know who to trust.
• 20:48
  Dimity: Yep.
• 20:48
  Dimity: Yeah.
• 20:48
  Dimity: I found that there was a there's a lot of opinions, obviously, online on things like TikTok and Instagram.
• 20:54
  Dimity: I actually found there was a website called Solid Starts where you could go, you could type in, okay, I want to serve my child tomato, and it would tell you exactly how to serve it for their age range, and they'd show it the pieces, how to cut it up, um, whether it needed to be in strips, whether you could give it to them in little pieces, um, whether it's even something that you should be trying with them at that specific age.
• 21:19
  Susan: Okay.
• 21:19
  Dimity: Which I found really, really helpful.
• 21:21
  Susan: Yeah, that's great.
• 21:22
  Dimity: Yeah, it was really good.
• 21:22
  Dimity: And I'll put a link to that in the description too.
• 21:25
  Dimity: And I even used that with Louie.
• 21:27
  Dimity: I even when I was giving him things that I didn't remember how Poppy had it, I still would refer to that.
• 21:33
  Dimity: So that was really helpful.
• 21:34
  Susan: There's weird things, isn't there?
• 21:35
  Susan: There's like things like is it strawberries that could actually cause an allergy and weird things about it.
• 21:40
  Susan: Obviously, everybody knows about nuts and eggs and things like that.
• 21:43
  Susan: But yeah, there's all those strange things like that I remember strawberry being a thing.
• 21:46
  Susan: I was like, "Oh!".
• 21:47
  Susan: I didn't realise and I had I had given it to Jake without actually even knowing that it was uh an allergy.
• 21:52
  Dimity: I was saying with kiwi, I think that's one as well.
• 21:54
  Dimity: And I that was like my go to, gave that to Poppy and Louie, and they were but yeah, they were fine.
• 21:59
  Dimity: Which is good.
• 22:00
  Dimity: The allergen one is also scary as well.
• 22:02
  Dimity: It's almost up there with the choking.
• 22:03
  Dimity: For me, I was so terrified that you know, give I was gonna give Poppy a nut or something and she was just gonna have this anaphylactic shock right there again.
• 22:11
  Dimity: And I was gonna say...
• 22:12
  Susan: You need to be careful and you do and of course be near a hospital, I guess.
• 22:17
  Dimity: Yes.
• 22:17
  Susan: If there is a reaction.
• 22:18
  Dimity: Definitely.
• 22:18
  Dimity: But I would I was like taking note of even if she had like some red cheeks, I'd be like, okay, well, she had some red cheeks, so I better make sure, you know, the next time when really it was probably just her teething or a warm day or something.
• 22:28
  Susan: Yeah, I think for me it was just more the choking.
• 22:30
  Dimity: Yeah.
• 22:31
  Susan: And I just didn't even I honestly didn't even really think about it.
• 22:34
  Susan: Like yeah, because I'd never really I didn't really have lots of other like mums around and or even the people who were, they were also doing pure es.
• 22:43
  Susan: So I think now it was just like you know, you're 10 years on than I was.
• 22:48
  Susan: So I think it's like more popular now.
• 22:50
  Dimity: It's definitely more popular now.
• 22:51
  Susan: And I think like we go back to the control thing, you know.
• 22:54
  Susan: Like for Jamie, he went to her phase, I can't even remember when it was, probably around the nine months time frame, when he just would not eat the puree unless he could get his hands into it or have a spoon to do it himself.
• 23:10
  Susan: It was the control.
• 23:11
  Dimity: Yeah.
• 23:11
  Susan: He needed a control, and I absolutely was like again, I was an absolute like mess.
• 23:17
  Susan: I didn't, I couldn't tolerate mess, probably a little bit OCD, I am not quite sure.
• 23:22
  Susan: Uh I'm definitely better now than I was, but I when I did start to do this whole like feeding thing, I would lay down a tablecloth underneath him.
• 23:32
  Susan: All right, he'd have been in his high chair, very easy to clean IKEA one.
• 23:37
  Susan: I had a big plastic bib on him to catch everything, and I wore an apron too.
• 23:44
  Dimity: That's so funny.
• 23:45
  Susan: Like because I was terrified about the mess.
• 23:47
  Susan: Because I hear hear all these stories of them chucking their food and everything.
• 23:51
  Susan: So I like for me, it was like no.
• 23:53
  Susan: So every meal for me was like this ordeal.
• 23:56
  Susan: My issue, totally my issue.
• 23:59
  Susan: Um, and but I know there's a lot of mums out there who just absolutely hate mess.
• 24:04
  Dimity: Yeah.
• 24:04
  Susan: And so this is a real thing.
• 24:05
  Susan: But then when he had that control issue and he wouldn't eat without like because I like to feed him and nice and clean and everything was lovely, and he was like, "No, I do not want to eat until I can actually do it myself." Um, and I realized I'm not winning.
• 24:20
  Susan: Like he actually managed, he did teach me to give up control.
• 24:24
  Susan: I have to say, like he is the catalyst for me being the more chilled person I am today.
• 24:30
  Susan: Um, and then eventually, yeah, so I had to give him a spoon, and he would be playing with a spoon, like trying to eat, he didn't do a very good job.
• 24:37
  Susan: So I would then go.
• 24:39
  Susan: And I would also do things like um if to try and like trick him into eating, I go, "Look at the doggy out there!" And then he would go up, and they're all quickly put it in.
• 24:48
  Susan: Shove it in.
• 24:49
  Susan: Um, so all the things that you just have to do as a mum to try and get them to eat.
• 24:53
  Susan: So you've still got two kids under three.
• 24:56
  Dimity: I do, yeah.
• 24:56
  Susan: How is feeding them now?
• 24:58
  Dimity: It's a challenge.
• 24:59
  Dimity: I won't lie.
• 25:01
  Dimity: Um, Poppy is three and a half, and she is a very fussy eater.
• 25:05
  Dimity: Very fussy.
• 25:07
  Susan: Yeah.
• 25:07
  Susan: Like my son.
• 25:09
  Dimity: Yeah.
• 25:09
  Dimity: So she'll eat things like plain boiled pasta.
• 25:15
  Susan: They love it.
• 25:15
  Dimity: She'll eat chocolate.
• 25:17
  Dimity: Give her chocolate, give her the you know.
• 25:20
  Susan: The naughty food?
• 25:21
  Dimity: Yeah.
• 25:21
  Dimity: she'll guzzle those down.
• 25:22
  Dimity: But yeah, it's a big struggle.
• 25:25
  Dimity: I still want her to experience all the yummy foods that she can, but it is really hard feeding her specifically.
• 25:31
  Dimity: So we do try to cook meals and serve it to everyone.
• 25:35
  Dimity: And Louie, Louie's one and a half one and a half, so 18 months.
• 25:38
  Dimity: And he still is pretty good.
• 25:41
  Dimity: He'll eat whatever's put in front of him.
• 25:43
  Dimity: Kind of.
• 25:45
  Susan: Yeah.
• 25:46
  Dimity: He is like Jamie was, he just needs to be able to do it himself.
• 25:50
  Dimity: So he's better at it now.
• 25:52
  Dimity: He'll obviously be able to scoop out the things and eat it easily, but we still let him use his hands to eat things like vegetables.
• 26:00
  Susan: And as long as they're eating, yeah.
• 26:01
  Susan: You wouldn't care, do you?
• 26:02
  Dimity: Exactly.
• 26:02
  Dimity: And I think...
• 26:03
  Susan: Table manners can probably come later.
• 26:05
  Dimity: Yeah, exactly.
• 26:06
  Dimity: Which is Poppy.
• 26:07
  Dimity: We try and do that with Poppy now because she's a little bit older, she understands.
• 26:09
  Dimity: Um, and we also I don't love the mess eating.
• 26:13
  Susan: Oh, yeah.
• 26:14
  Dimity: Which was such a such a struggle, but we've just got to let it go a little bit.
• 26:18
  Susan: Um eating that's more important, isn't it?
• 26:20
  Dimity: Yeah.
• 26:20
  Dimity: We usually um feed Louie naked.
• 26:22
  Susan: Okay.
• 26:23
  Dimity: Well, not naked, he'll have a nappy on.
• 26:25
  Susan: Yes, clever.
• 26:25
  Dimity: Just a nappy, and then I don't have to worry about the washing of the bath afterwards.
• 26:29
  Dimity: Quickly wipe him down, taking up to take him up to the bath.
• 26:32
  Dimity: Um, but he's pretty good.
• 26:35
  Dimity: He'll eat everything, we'll make meals for a family, and he'll kind of pick away it.
• 26:39
  Dimity: That we do serve it differently sometimes.
• 26:41
  Dimity: Um, you know, we'll separate uh vegetables so that he can still have it if it's like a you know what I mean?
• 26:47
  Dimity: Um, so that he's kind of experiencing it.
• 26:50
  Dimity: Um, in his own way.
• 26:52
  Susan: Yeah, and like Jamie, he definitely was such a fussy eater.
• 26:55
  Susan: He's still a fussy eater.
• 26:56
  Susan: Um so much better though than what he used to be.
• 27:00
  Susan: So there is hope for you.
• 27:01
  Dimity: Yeah.
• 27:02
  Susan: But I still feel like me and Nigel are a little bit like cheerleaders every so often, you know, at the dinner table, like, come on, Jamie, one more bite, you can do it.
• 27:10
  Susan: Yeah, you know, we don't force him to eat his entire plate.
• 27:13
  Susan: I think that's a very old-fashioned way.
• 27:16
  Susan: Um, but it's kind of like, are you sure you've had enough?
• 27:18
  Susan: You know?
• 27:19
  Susan: Yeah.
• 27:19
  Susan: Can you have a little bit more?
• 27:20
  Susan: Like, and he might we sometimes we might trade our food.
• 27:24
  Susan: So, like he loves broccoli, yeah, which is great.
• 27:26
  Dimity: That's good, yeah.
• 27:27
  Susan: So he might say, Look, I'll have I he hates potato, which is terrible.
• 27:31
  Susan: Like Irish background, like what?
• 27:34
  Susan: Anyway, terrible for his ancestry, they would be disgusted with him.
• 27:38
  Susan: But uh, so he might say, "Look, can I trade my potato for more broccoli?" And so we'll give him maybe some of our broccoli and we'll take one of his potatoes.
• 27:47
  Susan: So you know, we do we do things like that.
• 27:50
  Susan: But yeah, he's it definitely got a lot better as he's got older.
• 27:53
  Susan: So I think there is hope for you.
• 27:55
  Dimity: I hope so, I really do hope so because it's such a struggle.
• 27:58
  Dimity: I want Poppy to eat well.
• 28:00
  Dimity: And I also don't want to create a bad relationship with food by you know saying to her, "No, like you need to eat this." But yeah, when she's had one blueberry and a chocolate milk all day.
• 28:11
  Susan: Yeah.
• 28:11
  Susan: Yeah.
• 28:12
  Dimity: Like it's hard not to say, come on, you need to eat this.
• 28:14
  Susan: Absolutely.
• 28:15
  Dimity: Or give her an incentive, like, well, if you eat that, you can have this.
• 28:18
  Dimity: Which I know it's not, it's not recommended to do that, obviously.
• 28:22
  Dimity: But sometimes you just have to do what do whatever.
• 28:26
  Susan: But I think we've done pretty much covers, you know, feeding babies and the early kind of toddler side of things and the struggles, the highs and lows, and how we've got through it.
• 28:37
  Susan: We're not experts in this feeding world at all.
• 28:42
  Susan: So, like, you know, do not go off our advice only.
• 28:46
  Susan: We're here just to support you and definitely find, you know, if you are struggling, find people who are experts in the field if that's what you need, but also don't be afraid to just follow your gut.
• 28:58
  Dimity: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 28:59
  Susan: Because I think sometimes, you know, we especially as new mums, we're so terrified that we don't know what we're doing that we think that everybody else will know.
• 29:09
  Susan: But you will know your baby more than you think you know.
• 29:12
  Susan: Definitely.
• 29:13
  Susan: Um, and hopefully you'll have some support around you too.
• 29:15
  Susan: So talk to your family, talk to your friends, and they will tell you their experiences too.
• 29:21
  Susan: Don't keep it all to yourself.
• 29:23
  Dimity: Yeah, what I will say as well is that the second time around is much easier.
• 29:27
  Susan: Everybody says that.
• 29:28
  Dimity: Yeah, it's so much easier.
• 29:30
  Susan: You might be like me and be so terrified that you don't ever do it again.
• 29:33
  Dimity: Yeah, well, it yeah, it's just so much easier.
• 29:35
  Dimity: You have that experience behind you, you're not questioning yourself as much.
• 29:38
  Dimity: And maybe there's probably there are probably mums out there who maybe do have a bad experience the second time around, but for me, it's been great.
• 29:44
  Dimity: You know, I don't worry about Louie choking as much, I don't intervene as much.
• 29:49
  Susan: Every kid is different.
• 29:50
  Dimity: Yes, exactly.
• 29:51
  Susan: Yeah, and then your experiences will be different depending on how many kids you have to deal with.
• 29:55
  Dimity: Uh-huh.
• 29:55
  Susan: You just probably also don't have as much time to worry when you've got more kids.
• 29:59
  Dimity: Exactly.
• 29:59
  Susan: You know, my mum, I was a baby of five.
• 30:01
  Susan: So, and I have a sister who had four kids.
• 30:04
  Susan: So, you know, they literally did not have the time to be concerned.
• 30:08
  Dimity: You just gotta get it done.
• 30:09
  Dimity: You just gotta get things, yeah.
• 30:10
  Susan: And uh yeah, babies are incredibly resilient.
• 30:13
  Dimity: They are.
• 30:14
  Susan: And that's it from us today.
• 30:15
  Dimity: Yeah, thank you.
• 30:17
  Susan: Thank you.