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Audio Branding 101 (with Jodi Krangle) · The Daily Writer

0:01
SPEAKER_01: If you're like most writers, you constantly think about visual branding for your business or organization.
0:07
SPEAKER_01: But have you ever thought about audio branding and how it can help you connect with your fans, followers, and customers?
0:14
SPEAKER_01: Well, hello, my friend.
0:15
SPEAKER_01: This is Kent Sanders from Inkwell Ghostwriting.
0:18
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to this episode of the Smart Business Writing Podcast.
0:21
SPEAKER_01: This is the show that helps you grow your business, amplify your authority, and increase your impact through the power of writing.
0:27
SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for joining me today.
0:30
SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm excited to have my friend Jodi Krangle as a guest on this episode.
0:34
SPEAKER_01: Jodi is a musician and a voiceover artist, and she's taken her knowledge of audio and created a compelling podcast about how we're influenced by sound.
0:43
SPEAKER_01: And her show is called Audio Branding: The Hidden Gem of Marketing.
0:48
SPEAKER_01: And in this conversation, Jodi is going to help us understand how to use audio branding to create a distinct identity in an audio-driven world.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: You're going to learn what audio branding is, how we can use it to strengthen our brands, and some behind-the-scenes stories of Jodi's work as a voiceover artist, which is a fascinating world in its own right.
1:09
SPEAKER_01: And if you've been listening to this podcast for a while, you might have noticed that I didn't use any intro music in this episode.
1:15
SPEAKER_01: And that's because starting with this episode, and with the exception of a couple of episodes after this, which I actually had previously recorded and produced, don't ask, it's a long story.
1:25
SPEAKER_01: So beginning with this episode, I've actually decided to forego my intro music and have a more stripped-down podcast.
1:32
SPEAKER_01: Now that might seem like the complete opposite of what Jody's emphasizing as you listen to this interview, but truthfully, I want this show to be a conversation between you and me, a conversation between two individuals.
1:44
SPEAKER_01: And for my purposes here on this show, trying to make the show feel like a conversation between friends, I actually want the lack of intro music to be part of my audio branding and part of my identity.
1:56
SPEAKER_01: Now that probably sounds odd, but in a strange way, I'm putting Jodi's advice to work.
2:01
SPEAKER_01: So I hope that you'll listen carefully to Jodi's thoughts in this conversation because she is what we call a sharp cookie here in the Midwest.
2:10
SPEAKER_01: I have no idea if sharp cookie is a thing that people say anywhere else in the world, but in the Midwest, or at least in my family growing up in the Midwest, that's what we called people who were really, really smart.
2:21
SPEAKER_01: So Jodi is definitely a sharp cookie.
2:24
SPEAKER_01: She has a lot of great thoughts, and I hope that you'll take her words to heart when you are thinking about audio branding for your podcast, your audiobook, videos, or anything else that you're creating.
2:34
SPEAKER_01: All right, let's get right to the conversation with my friend, Jodi Krangel.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: Jodi, welcome to the Smart Business Writing Podcast.
2:41
SPEAKER_01: I'm thrilled to have you on and I'm excited about our conversation.
2:45
SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for having me here.
2:47
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
2:48
SPEAKER_01: So we are here to talk about audio branding, and you are absolutely an expert in that field because you not only have a podcast on that topic, you've also been doing voiceover acting for a long time and are involved in a variety of creative endeavors.
3:01
SPEAKER_01: So for those who are who are uninitiated in this topic, can you give us kind of an overview of what is audio branding and why is it important for us as writers and business people to be thinking about this topic?
3:14
SPEAKER_00: Well, audio branding as uh an idea is basically just following through with the image of your company.
3:21
SPEAKER_00: So if you have a brand that has a certain type of color, a certain logo, if you're um casual as opposed to formal or the other way around, then your visuals carry through with that idea and your audio should also carry through with that idea.
3:43
SPEAKER_00: So in that sense, the writing should carry through with that idea too.
3:46
SPEAKER_00: If you think about it, then if someone is speaking a commercial about your company, if you're more casual, you're gonna use more contractions or not, you know, if you're more formal.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: Um it really depends on your business and how you envision your company to be.
4:02
SPEAKER_01: That's fascinating because that brings to mind that ad that everybody has seen with with the uh two guys.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: It was a commercial for Apple.
4:10
SPEAKER_01: You had the PC guy who was kind of this stuffy business-y guy, then you had this cool hip guy.
4:16
SPEAKER_01: So is audio branding in that sense, it's gonna give people an image of okay, your company is cool, it's not cool, it's it's hip, it's not hip, it's it's high-end, it's more middle of the road.
4:30
SPEAKER_01: Is it that kind of an idea?
4:31
SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, I think it is.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: And I don't know that one is better than the other.
4:34
SPEAKER_00: I know Apple made that out to be the case.
4:37
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: But I mean, that's their advertising, right?
4:40
SPEAKER_00: They wanted to be young and hip, and that was the cool thing, and you should like them because of that, right?
4:46
SPEAKER_01: All the PC people would disagree.
4:48
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
4:48
SPEAKER_00: I happen to be a PC person, so you know.
4:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, but but yeah, it depends.
4:54
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you really have to sit down and think what is your company, what does it stand for?
4:59
SPEAKER_00: Why are you doing what you do?
5:00
SPEAKER_00: Who do you want to reach?
5:01
SPEAKER_00: Who are you, who's your audience?
5:02
SPEAKER_00: Who are the people you're selling to?
5:04
SPEAKER_00: And and what do they um appreciate?
5:08
SPEAKER_00: What is important to them?
5:10
SPEAKER_00: And you can sort of get an idea of where your branding fits in that.
5:14
SPEAKER_00: And my only suggestion to companies is that while they're spending so much time on the visuals of that, they should also be following through with the audio of that.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: Because if those things aren't in sync, people aren't going to trust you and they're not gonna know why.
5:29
SPEAKER_00: It's unconscious.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: How do you take a company image or a the culture of a company or what a company is about?
5:36
SPEAKER_01: How do you translate that into audio?
5:38
SPEAKER_01: It seems like imagery, and I'm sure graphic designers would disagree with this, but from a from my perspective, the imagery seems more straightforward, but the audio seems like that would be a harder thing to get a grasp on.
5:50
SPEAKER_01: To figure out here's what a company's about.
5:52
SPEAKER_01: We're going to translate that into a jingle or theme or a feel or a style or a vibe or something.
5:58
SPEAKER_01: Is that the case or is that not the case?
6:01
SPEAKER_00: Uh I think to an extent it is.
6:03
SPEAKER_00: It depends on what emotion you want people to feel when they look and hear, uh, look at and hear your company.
6:10
SPEAKER_01: Okay, makes sense.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, you see, really, it's it's you're getting to their emotions.
6:15
SPEAKER_00: And the thing about audio is that it gets to our emotions super fast.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
6:19
SPEAKER_00: And we make decisions, buying decisions, based on emotion.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: It's not logic.
6:25
SPEAKER_00: That is really not logic.
6:27
SPEAKER_00: We will we will buy based on emotion and then justify it to ourselves with logic.
6:33
SPEAKER_01: I've never done that.
6:34
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what you're talking about.
6:35
SPEAKER_00: Oh, no, never.
6:36
unknown: No, not at all.
6:38
SPEAKER_01: There's no uh middle-aged guys out there driving Lamborghinis who have ever made an emotional decision about or Teslas or whatever.
6:45
SPEAKER_01: So can you give us some examples of companies that communicate a certain vibe or a feel based on the audio that they use, whether that's music or some other elements, something that can give us kind of a handle on here's how some companies or brands are doing this.
7:00
SPEAKER_00: Well, part of it is consistency.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: So um one of the brands that I would uh raise up for doing that really, really well is Intel.
7:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, and what they did was they created this little what you call earcon.
7:12
SPEAKER_00: Um that uh you can actually look that up.
7:15
SPEAKER_00: It's a term on Wikipedia.
7:17
SPEAKER_00: Um and uh it what it does is it it's a series of uh like da-da-da-da, right?
7:23
SPEAKER_00: Like that.
7:24
SPEAKER_01: I thought of that exactly when you said Intel.
7:26
SPEAKER_01: That's what went off in my mind.
7:28
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
7:28
SPEAKER_00: So you know what it sounds like, but not only that, the consistency of hearing it on every uh ad that you ever hear that has technology on it, and then the you know, quality because Intel is inside idea behind all of that sort of automatically associates that idea of quality with that sound.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: And you don't need to see the language of what that quality assurance is.
7:55
SPEAKER_00: All you have to do is hear the sound and you think of quality, right?
7:59
SPEAKER_00: So it's it's an association.
8:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
8:02
SPEAKER_00: It's an association in our minds, but it's a consistency that makes it the association.
8:08
SPEAKER_00: So um consistency is really important in this.
8:13
SPEAKER_00: You know, you have to follow through, and you have to follow through over a long-term plan.
8:17
SPEAKER_00: It's not a short-term thing.
8:19
SPEAKER_01: How would how would you recommend that writers begin to use those audio elements more than what they're doing?
8:27
SPEAKER_01: Aside from doing a podcast, which of course this is a podcast, so I'm obviously a big fan of podcasting.
8:32
SPEAKER_01: Aside from uh audiobooks and podcasting and things like that, are there some other ways to do to use that as a writer?
8:39
SPEAKER_01: Or would you say those are two really, really important ways right now?
8:43
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, as a writer, if you especially if you're writing for advertising, I would say um keep in mind the company that you're writing for and decide whether it's a casual or a formal company and decide how you're gonna write based on that.
9:01
SPEAKER_00: So if they're a more casual company, you use contractions.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: If they're a more formal, more authoritative company, then you don't, and you use language that follows through with that type of emotional feel of the company.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: Um also writing for it being spoken, especially if you're talking about advertising, is really important.
9:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, mainly I'm talking about this as a voice actor because that's what I do.
9:29
SPEAKER_00: I interpret the writing of these scripts.
9:32
SPEAKER_00: And what will happen in the beginning of a writer's career in advertising is that they will write lovely prose.
9:40
SPEAKER_00: It'll sound wonderful to themselves.
9:44
SPEAKER_00: But when someone speaks it, it's awkward.
9:47
SPEAKER_00: Or two words together are not really very well said.
9:51
SPEAKER_00: It's really hard to put those two words together when you're speaking them.
9:55
SPEAKER_00: Um or it's a really long script, and it's really hard to actually say that in the time that you're allotted for the advertising.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: So if it's a 30-second commercial, it needs to be able to be spoken in 30 seconds.
10:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that makes sense.
10:11
unknown: Yeah.
10:11
SPEAKER_01: That makes a lot of sense.
10:12
SPEAKER_01: And it seems like such a simple thing, but do you come across writers who violate that principle on a regular basis?
10:18
SPEAKER_00: Every now and again.
10:19
SPEAKER_00: Every now and again, yeah.
10:20
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's it's hazards of the job, right?
10:24
SPEAKER_00: And we all learn.
10:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we all learn.
10:27
SPEAKER_00: So uh, but yeah, I mean, I've been in a lot of sessions where um the writer is fantastic, but because we go through in a directed session and they realize that it's a little wordy.
10:42
SPEAKER_00: We have to get rid of some words because we don't have enough time.
10:44
SPEAKER_00: You know, they have to modify stuff on the fly.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: And I've been in sessions like that.
10:50
SPEAKER_01: It seems like that there has been a switch the last 10 years or so as audiobooks and podcasts have gotten way more popular.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: That now the ecosystem has changed a little bit.
11:00
SPEAKER_01: It used to be, at least from my perspective, it used to be writing first and then audio second.
11:05
SPEAKER_01: So, in other words, audio was kind of not an afterthought, but it was something that a lot of writers saw as, okay, we'll produce our content in written form and then we'll make audio kind of the something that will add on to the written form.
11:20
SPEAKER_01: But now it's almost switched in some ways where audio is is almost the primary way that people are consuming information.
11:26
SPEAKER_01: So would you would you recommend that as writers, particularly who are trying to build our businesses and our brands, that we maybe think about writing in a different way, not writing as writers, but not writing so people will read it, but writing so that people will hear it first.
11:44
SPEAKER_00: I think it depends on the writing you're doing.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: I would never say that an uh that a a novel should be written just because it's going to be made into an audiobook.
11:52
SPEAKER_00: Like write, write your novel the way you're gonna write your novel.
11:55
SPEAKER_00: That's just, you know, audiobook people know how to interpret that and they're very good at it.
12:01
SPEAKER_00: Um I am not one.
12:03
SPEAKER_00: And I so admire the people who are, uh, because it is definitely a skill and it's a very learned skill and and something that people should be applauded for.
12:13
SPEAKER_00: So I, you know, I I'm not worthy.
12:16
SPEAKER_00: But um, but at the same time, if you're writing for advertising, if you're writing to get people to do an action to influence them, I would say that you should think about how it's going to sound spoken.
12:33
SPEAKER_01: That really makes a lot of sense.
12:35
SPEAKER_01: It really does.
12:35
SPEAKER_01: Because you think about it, how many things that we that we come across content-wise that are spoken first.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: Whether it's whether it's video, of course, which includes spoken content, audiobooks, podcasting.
12:46
SPEAKER_01: I feel like I consume a lot more stuff that's audio first rather than reading.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:51
SPEAKER_01: And I and I'm a writer, so I think if I'm doing that, probably everybody else is as well.
12:56
SPEAKER_00: I'll bet a lot of people are.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: Also, when you're writing for things like a visual medium, like video, you're not just describing what's on the screen.
13:07
SPEAKER_00: You're almost, you're almost you're telling a story.
13:10
SPEAKER_00: You're you're still telling a story.
13:12
SPEAKER_00: The visuals are helping you tell that story, but you can space it out a lot more.
13:16
SPEAKER_00: So it's not filling it all with words, it's letting the visuals tell the story as much as the words.
13:23
SPEAKER_00: And so that's kind of like I I almost think in some aspects they should call what I do voice under.
13:29
SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
13:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:31
SPEAKER_01: So take us through a little bit about uh your journey as a voiceover artist.
13:36
SPEAKER_01: Is the proper term voiceover artist or actor, or does it change depending on what the job is?
13:41
unknown: Okay.
13:42
SPEAKER_00: There are so many there were they all mean the same thing.
13:45
SPEAKER_00: It just depends on what people like to call themselves.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: I say voice actor on my website because this this is really acting.
13:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, this is a really um artificial environment, put it that way.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: So you really have to be in your own head, playing a movie in your own head while you're doing all this.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: Because really, I'm sitting here with headphones on, talking into a microphone, looking at a canvas wall.
14:10
unknown: Yeah.
14:11
SPEAKER_00: Right.
14:12
SPEAKER_00: So whatever people are asking me to do, I have to have theater of the mind going on at the same time.
14:18
SPEAKER_00: And that is an acting skill.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: And it's something you learn.
14:21
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I didn't start out as an actor, I started out as a singer.
14:25
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you they're there are different things and you you learn as you go.
14:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, it's uh uh it's been a bit of a journey.
14:36
SPEAKER_01: So take us through that journey, if you can, a little bit.
14:39
SPEAKER_01: How did you get into voiceover work?
14:41
SPEAKER_01: Because that is a a very specific niche that not everybody can do, not everybody is gifted or talented enough to do voiceover work because it's such a specific thing and you have to really be good at it to be effective at it.
14:55
SPEAKER_01: So how did you get into that?
14:57
SPEAKER_00: Well, I actually started um uh way back 95-96 doing volunteering at the CNIB, which is the Canadian National Institute for the Blind.
15:08
SPEAKER_00: And I did uh books onto tape, which really was tape at the time.
15:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was real to real.
15:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:16
SPEAKER_00: So like I'm old.
15:19
SPEAKER_00: But uh, but it was a real um exciting learning experience.
15:25
SPEAKER_00: And I I loved the tech almost as much as I loved the speaking.
15:29
SPEAKER_00: And I've always used my voice.
15:30
SPEAKER_00: I've been a singer since I could speak, and my parents were very musical.
15:35
SPEAKER_00: And when I was a kid, we had sing-along uh before bedtime.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: We didn't, they didn't tell us stories.
15:42
SPEAKER_00: My dad played guitar and my mom sang, and we all, my sister and I, and we all sang together before bed.
15:47
SPEAKER_00: That was our that was our story time.
15:50
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
15:52
SPEAKER_00: So that's always sound has always been a part of my life and experience and aspirations, I guess.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: And I always wanted to use my voice no matter what I was doing.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: So after the bug bit after CNIB, I actually had a little bit of a waiting time because I didn't really know where to take it.
16:13
SPEAKER_00: And the internet was still pretty brand new.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: And I was doing internet marketing and SEO for a while.
16:21
SPEAKER_00: And after I got so bored with that, because what happened was in 2007, Google was the only game in town.
16:30
SPEAKER_00: Really, no other search engine mattered anymore.
16:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:33
SPEAKER_00: True.
16:34
SPEAKER_00: And for me, that just got incredibly boring.
16:37
SPEAKER_00: And and I hit a ceiling of how much money I could earn because I was dealing with a certain amount of clients and I only had a certain amount of hours in a day that I could work for these clients.
16:49
SPEAKER_00: And so I hit that ceiling and I was like, do I want to be doing this for the rest of my life?
16:55
SPEAKER_00: Unless I decided I wanted to expand into a different, you know, have 50 employees and expand into a huge business, I couldn't see it, I couldn't see a future for it.
17:08
SPEAKER_00: So I went online and I started looking around.
17:11
SPEAKER_00: And the first places that I found were online message boards f that, you know, were populated by a bunch of voice actors.
17:18
SPEAKER_00: And I asked questions and I made all the classic mistakes like self-producing a demo and not getting coaching in the start, and all of those mistakes that people make when they do some research and don't quite know how to start.
17:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, and eventually I learned and I had some very kind um people take me under their wing and and let me know what the lay of the land was, and uh made a demo and improved and got coaching over time, and it just kind of snowballed from there.
17:55
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I just I I've I love it.
17:58
SPEAKER_00: And it's something I've been doing longer than any other career I've ever had, and I've had a few.
18:04
SPEAKER_01: What are the different types of projects that you tend to do, let's say in any given week or a month, is it you do a lot of podcast intros, of course.
18:12
SPEAKER_01: I've heard you on a number of podcasts, and they're always great.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: But do you also do things like audiobooks and commercials?
18:17
SPEAKER_01: What kind of other things do you do aside from podcasting?
18:21
SPEAKER_00: No audiobooks.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: I am not a long-form narration person.
18:24
SPEAKER_00: I am a I'm a sprinter, not a marital runner.
18:28
SPEAKER_01: I can relate to that.
18:29
SPEAKER_01: I after recording uh an audio version of my my last book, which wasn't even that long, I was like, oh my gosh, this is exhausting.
18:37
SPEAKER_00: You see why I admire those people who do it, especially the people who do fiction, because oh my goodness.
18:43
SPEAKER_01: The Harry Potter narrators are like, whatever, whatever they get paid, they're worth double.
18:48
SPEAKER_00: That is definitely acting.
18:49
SPEAKER_00: Like that's that's what the theater people and the film actors usually adore.
18:54
SPEAKER_00: That's that's why they do this, you know, that or animation and video games and that kind of stuff, which is none of what I do.
19:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, most of what I do is advertising and marketing.
19:06
SPEAKER_00: So my thrill is making other people money.
19:09
SPEAKER_01: I like that.
19:10
SPEAKER_01: That's a good thing.
19:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I do a lot of uh corporate narration um anthems for large corporations, websites, and for their social media, and I do radio and television and social media commercials, um, streaming media.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: I work with Pandora.
19:28
SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, I just I I love it.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: I I love it all.
19:34
SPEAKER_01: What is the most difficult part of doing voiceover work?
19:39
SPEAKER_00: Hmm, that's a really good question.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, I think in the beginning it's almost getting the job.
19:47
SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, once you have the job, you you know, being directed is not a difficult thing for me.
19:54
SPEAKER_00: I can go wherever the client wants me to go.
19:57
SPEAKER_00: And that has to do with my musical training because that's just having a good ear and knowing how to interpret their directions into something that sounds like what they were asking me to do.
20:10
SPEAKER_00: And that's an interesting sort of skill in and of itself.
20:13
SPEAKER_00: Um, but before that, catching their attention in the audition, and I do a lot of auditions, I think a lot of voice actors do a lot of auditions, that can be really hard.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: And if you get lazy with the audition process, you can start having dry periods that you're not used to.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: And that means stop getting lazy, get a coach, you know, switch things up a little, um, and and and work on it.
20:45
SPEAKER_00: It's always something I'm working on.
20:48
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'm gonna ask a really dumb question, which is not unusual for me.
20:52
SPEAKER_01: I ask a lot of questions that probably are obvious to everybody else, but that's totally okay.
20:57
SPEAKER_01: I'm not afraid to look crazy.
20:58
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so if I'm a company and I'm gonna hire you to do voiceover work for something that I'm putting together, some marketing thing, commercial, whatever, what is the purpose of an audition if you already have a thousand other things that you've done out there that are things you've done for other people?
21:13
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's the same voice.
21:14
SPEAKER_01: Is it that they want to hear you reading their stuff?
21:18
SPEAKER_01: Is that the kind of the purpose of an audition?
21:20
SPEAKER_00: Usually it is.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: It depends also on whether or not they've decided that you're their voice or if they're choosing between you and several other people.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: So the audition is generally if they're trying to decide which voice they want to go with.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: If someone comes to my website and they ask me for a quote and they talk to me about their project, uh generally they've sort of made a decision.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: If I'm not the only voice they're listening to, there's maybe two or three other people.
21:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, a lot of the time they've already made their decision.
21:51
SPEAKER_00: They've listened to what's on my website and they've said, you're our voice.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: We want to work with you.
21:56
SPEAKER_00: Just let me know, you know, what's the pricing here?
21:58
SPEAKER_00: How do we work this out?
22:00
SPEAKER_00: you know, and a lot of them are ad agencies, so they have uh you know, they're they're sending demos to their clients so their client can decide who they want to go with.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: So that again, it really depends on how many other voices they're considering at the same time.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: So if they've already decided on you, then no, they may not want an an audition.
22:21
SPEAKER_00: But if they want you to speak their ad or their corporate narration so that they can present it to their client and let the client decide, then that's when you need to make an audition.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: Also I get auditions from agents and from voiceover directories and all sorts of other locations.
22:40
SPEAKER_00: So it's not just people reaching out directly from a website.
22:44
SPEAKER_01: Is there a a pretty even split between male and female voiceover actors?
22:49
SPEAKER_01: Or is it more leaning toward one or the other?
22:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm really not sure at this point.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: I used to think that um I think there are slightly more jobs for male voices, but I think it depends on which genre you're working in.
23:04
SPEAKER_00: So the authoritative deep voiced almost voice of God thing.
23:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah like a Morgan Freeman thing or something.
23:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:13
SPEAKER_00: That's definitely a guy thing.
23:16
SPEAKER_00: And and it's it kind of um ebbs and flows as far as its popularity.
23:22
SPEAKER_00: So right now I think we're sort of in a transition period.
23:27
SPEAKER_00: So for a little while we were really in a period where no one wanted BS of any kind.
23:33
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: You needed to be as authentic as possible almost to the point of they didn't want a voice actor.
23:39
SPEAKER_00: They just wanted someone off the street but that someone off the street had to be able to talk.
23:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah that makes sense.
23:46
SPEAKER_00: Right?
23:46
SPEAKER_00: So yeah so as real as possible.
23:49
SPEAKER_00: And I think now in this age of uncertainty with the whole virus thing going on, I think we're gonna start seeing something moving towards the more reassuring, more polished I'm hoping uh type of voice that's still authentic but not, you know, untrained put it that way.
24:10
SPEAKER_01: I'm really fascinated by the psychology of why people prefer certain voices whether male or female or even certain accents over other ones.
24:19
SPEAKER_01: So for example on my iPhone I've got I'm sure there's a name for this voice on here.
24:25
SPEAKER_01: It's Siri, but actually it probably has a different name.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: It's the iPhone voice but it's female and I for some reason I just prefer like a British accent.
24:34
SPEAKER_01: I I can't explain why sure I just all things being equal I want a British female talking to me on my phone.
24:41
SPEAKER_01: My wife has a male voice I think he's Australian or British or something.
24:44
SPEAKER_01: And it's interesting because psychologically there are certain things that appeal to you as a person versus other things.
24:51
SPEAKER_01: Do you find the same thing is true when it comes to corporate work or voiceover work in that some people just prefer one thing over the other and there's really no reason for it except that that's just what they like.
25:03
SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah I think that's definitely the case and I don't know that it's necessarily as arbitrary as we might think.
25:11
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: For instance, I think deeper voices give us more reassurance that makes sense and they're more they're more authoritative.
25:18
SPEAKER_00: So if you want a brand anthem for instance, you know, this is who we are and we're proud of it, you know that kind of thing, then you want a deeper voice.
25:27
SPEAKER_00: You don't want um you know candy from you know the receptionist you know what I mean like I mean that's yeah maybe not the best example but but you know what I mean.
25:40
SPEAKER_01: With apologies to all the listeners who are named candy.
25:43
SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
25:44
SPEAKER_00: I'm just kidding.
25:45
SPEAKER_00: But yeah but uh but at the same time you know that that candy voice may be much more what you want if you're advertising the next um you know really cute top you know or you know like it it there's difference there's different reasons for wanting the type of voice that you want and each of the voice actors I know cater to an audience that prefers their voice type.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: It's that's interesting marketing.
26:16
SPEAKER_01: So it really does call back to the emotional uh component of what that brand or company is trying to communicate.
26:23
SPEAKER_00: Exactly yes it's part of your audio branding and that's why I've gotten into this in the whole you know the whole reason I I started talking about this is because voices are part of your audio branding too.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: So it depends on whether you want a more formal voice, a more casual voice, uh whether you want a deeper voice or a higher voice.
26:43
SPEAKER_00: You know, there's a whole bunch of different things that you can use to decide which voice represents your company in a more authentic way.
26:52
SPEAKER_00: But knowing the brand of your audio as much as your image will help you figure that out.
26:59
SPEAKER_01: So let's say there's somebody listening who is thinking about putting together a podcast and but they they need a voiceover artist.
27:05
SPEAKER_01: Now in my case I do my intro myself it's like a sentence long but I know other shows they have someone else do the intro from the perspective from your perspective as a voiceover artist what is is there a specific benefit to having someone else do your podcast intro versus the host doing it it seems to me like it it does pre it does present a little bit more authority when you have someone else doing your intro yeah I mean I do think it presents a certain amount of professionalism but at the same time it depends on the type of audience that you're reaching out to.
27:39
SPEAKER_00: If you're reaching out to you know other professionals and um you want someone else to be s you know speaking your praise then then maybe that's a you know it's better to have someone else do your intro.
27:53
SPEAKER_00: And I would say it's better to have a female voice for a male host and a female voice or sorry a male voice for a female host.
28:03
SPEAKER_00: Like I think I think the the the differences there will work in your favor.
28:08
SPEAKER_00: But again it depends if you're a casual or formal type of podcast.
28:14
SPEAKER_00: You know I mean decide what your feel is what the emotion is that you're trying to get to pe people to to feel and play to that.
28:24
SPEAKER_01: That's a I think that's a really great insight.
28:27
SPEAKER_01: It seems like the same thing would also apply to the choice of music that someone would use for a podcast intro and outro.
28:34
SPEAKER_01: Is that something that you have a hand in or that you have input on when someone is is talking to you about voiceover work or do they typically have their music already selected?
28:44
SPEAKER_00: They usually have their music already selected or they haven't even selected it yet at all and typically for me hearing the music will help me figure out what tone they want in their intro.
28:55
SPEAKER_00: So if I hear the music beforehand that gets me right to where I need to be immediately.
29:00
SPEAKER_00: And that that's the case for any work that I do actually because I'm a musician and I come at this from the music end having that music to inform the emotions I should be feeling when I'm doing what they want me to do just makes it all easier all around.
29:18
SPEAKER_00: And um yeah so it it depends.
29:21
SPEAKER_00: I think as far as the music is concerned I generally leave that to the people who are producing the whole thing because when I do an intro outro I give them the audio of my voice only and then let them do with it what they want to do.
29:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:36
SPEAKER_00: But again the tone of that music informs the tone of what voice I would give them for their intro outro.
29:45
SPEAKER_00: And also as far as the music is concerned it's kind of it it it's almost an ear con in and of itself if you use consistently the same music and it has some kind of little um you know catch to it that people are going to remember and you consistently use it over time, people are going to hear that music and know what's coming up.
30:07
SPEAKER_00: So again that can help your podcast in a very visceral way.
30:13
SPEAKER_01: Oh totally totally well I I'll confess my sins in this area so I've changed my music a couple of times on my show and I've I've done a lot of things wrong on my podcast.
30:23
SPEAKER_01: Well we all do in the beginning that's what yeah and I but I think that's part of it is you just have to start and just put it out there and knowing that you're going to change it and for all the perfectionists out there you have to kind of stuff down that impulse and just realize it's not going to be perfect.
30:38
SPEAKER_01: You're gonna change it you're gonna make a lot of mistakes but just do it.
30:41
SPEAKER_01: But having having someone like you do an intro can be a huge help in establishing credibility and in just really sounding like a professional show.
30:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah and I love doing it it's just a lot of fun well Jody um as we begin to wind this conversation down a little bit do you have any tips for someone who might be considering voiceover work as a possible side hustle or even a career option my usual thing to tell them to do is to go to a voice a website called voiceoverextra xtra.com and look around at the articles that are there, the coaches that are mentioned, the webinars that are there because they're pretty inexpensive as far as learning is concerned you can take one of those and it's like 50 bucks or something like that.
31:33
SPEAKER_00: So you don't have to invest a whole lot before you get the lay of the land.
31:37
SPEAKER_00: And I would say that that site will give you a really good background in what to expect on a daily basis and what you need to do to be a competing professional.
31:48
SPEAKER_00: And um and yeah just uh give that a shot and and do some research before you you get into it.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: But I would also tell them that you don't need to have the perfect voice.
31:59
SPEAKER_00: It isn't about the voice it's about what you do with it.
32:02
SPEAKER_00: So that's great advice too yeah coaching is really really important and that coach will help you decide you know how you you use the voice in the most effective way.
32:14
SPEAKER_01: Now time for a little transparency and honesty here.
32:18
SPEAKER_01: Do you ever not that you're not do you ever listen to podcasts because I know you're a huge fan of podcasting do you ever hear other shows and you think to yourself man they just they really could improve some things with the way that they're doing their intro or with the way that they're uh hosting the podcast or just their voiceover work in general do you ever hear shows like that where where you sense that there's specific things they could do to improve?
32:44
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah yeah I mean it it may or may not stop me from listening.
32:49
SPEAKER_00: It depends on the and not naming any names uh I will say that one of the pet peeves I have is when people are not close enough on the mic and they sound like they're screaming.
33:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah that that is a big problem.
33:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah so I think a little basic mic work could be in order for some people.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: And I don't think it's a difficult thing to do.
33:11
SPEAKER_00: If you're closer on the mic it just sounds more intimate.
33:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah it really does.
33:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah it does.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: Are there any other things that when you hear podcasts that they're simple fixes or really kind of fast solutions that someone could use to do better with their voice on a mic as they're hosting their show or doing intros or anything that they're doing audio wise I think having headphones on would help a lot of people if they're able to hear what they're producing at the same time that they're speaking it might help them a lot.
33:44
SPEAKER_00: In voiceover we're we're kind of split on that because it sounds a little more natural I guess if you're doing a spot like an advertising spot or whatever when you're not wearing your headphones because then you're not hearing it resonating in your head.
33:58
SPEAKER_00: Right.
33:59
SPEAKER_00: But I would say that when you're first starting a podcast, you want to hear how close you are on the mic and how your voice sounds on that mic.
34:08
SPEAKER_00: And it might help you get used to your voice a little more because I know a lot of people are sort of shy about listening to themselves when they're recorded.
34:16
SPEAKER_00: And getting used to how you sound is a big part of this because you may think you sound awful you you don't sound awful.
34:24
SPEAKER_00: You just need to be close enough to the mic and you need to get your point across.
34:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah and I I think that does detract some people from jumping into audio or podcasting or things like that because they don't like the way that they sound and maybe as a kid they were told oh you're you're not good at that or you have a weird voice or whatever kind of self-conscious things hold us back in life.
34:46
SPEAKER_01: But you kind of have to get over that.
34:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah and just put yourself out there.
34:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah it's the same thing about it's not your voice it's what you do with it.
34:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah that's so true.
34:56
SPEAKER_01: But Jody this has been fun.
34:58
SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited about what you're doing not just with your voiceover work and and voice acting but with your podcast and helping us to be more aware of this whole topic of audio branding.
35:07
SPEAKER_01: Thanks because it is really really critical and uh I've been looking forward to this important yeah yeah it is especially today because audio is exploding.
35:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:18
SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah this is a really important topic.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: So I appreciate all that you're doing to bring some awareness to this and helping us with this because we need a lot of help with it for sure.
35:27
SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much.
35:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah I'm happy to do it.
35:30
SPEAKER_01: How can people get in touch with you if either if they want to just find out more about your podcast or message or potentially hire you for voice uh voiceover work.
35:38
SPEAKER_00: Well for voiceover work it would be at voiceoversandvocals.com or jodiecrangle.com that'll get to me too uh for the podcast it's called audio branding and you'll find it on any of the regular podcast apps that you use or you can go to audio brandingpodcast dot com.
35:58
SPEAKER_01: Awesome I'll have links to all that in the show notes.
36:01
SPEAKER_01: I'm typing it away now so I don't forget it.
36:04
SPEAKER_01: Well thanks so much this has been a blast.
36:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah thank you so much for having me on.
36:08
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
36:09
SPEAKER_01: Well that was a fun conversation with Jody.
36:12
SPEAKER_01: Here are my three biggest takeaways from this interview.
36:15
SPEAKER_01: Number one, Jody mentioned an ear con, which is the consistency of an audio element.
36:23
SPEAKER_01: Businesses use ear cons all the time for example jingles for McDonald's or State Farm Insurance or other things that you hear that immediately when you hear that that audio clip or that music or that ear con, something specific comes to mind.
36:38
SPEAKER_01: We associate that ear con with a specific brand or with a specific experience or something else.
36:43
SPEAKER_01: Most podcasts do this also.
36:45
SPEAKER_01: You know one of my favorite artists musically is Prince and as soon as I hear the opening guitar chord of Purple Rain which is probably his most popular song or one of his most popular songs, whenever I hear that opening electric guitar chord with that kind of shimmering chorus effect on the electric guitar, it just puts me in a specific mood.
37:05
SPEAKER_01: It takes me back to the 80s and it it just puts me in a very specific emotional space just that one single guitar chord.
37:13
SPEAKER_01: And I think it's important not just with music but with other elements like the opening narration for a podcast.
37:19
SPEAKER_01: Those ear cons or those little audio indicators puts people they put people in a specific mood or a specific kind of thinking element or a specific emotional space.
37:30
SPEAKER_01: So I have a I have a similar intro format for every show.
37:34
SPEAKER_01: If you've listened to this show for any length of time you know that I pretty much say the same thing at the beginning of every episode.
37:41
SPEAKER_01: So this can apply in a variety of ways to different things that you're doing whether it's video audio or other things.
37:48
SPEAKER_01: And I think it's also interesting how marketers use audio to give us certain emotional cues.
37:54
SPEAKER_01: For example you don't go to a high-end department store and hear country music country music indicates a down home everyday type of feel and classical music indicates something that's more expensive or kind of highbrow.
38:08
SPEAKER_01: Now right or wrong music and jingles give us emotional cues about what we're supposed to feel as well as who that product is for.
38:16
SPEAKER_01: And it's almost like those things are the soundtrack to our lives.
38:20
SPEAKER_01: Just like a movie score gives emotional cues to the story that we're seeing on screen.
38:25
SPEAKER_01: Those ear cons or those little audio clips or that audio music puts us in a specific emotional space.
38:32
SPEAKER_01: So let's take away number one ear cons.
38:34
SPEAKER_01: Number two is the benefit of voiceover artists.
38:38
SPEAKER_01: Now Jody is a total pro as you might suspect from hearing this conversation she's a total pro when it comes to voiceover work and if you go to her website which is voiceoversandvocals.com you can hear some samples of her work.
38:52
SPEAKER_01: So if you want a distinct audio identity for your podcast intro or you have a business and you're putting together some advertisements or commercials I would encourage you to get in touch with Jody.
39:02
SPEAKER_01: She's a total pro.
39:03
SPEAKER_01: She's very very easy to work with and she'll do a phenomenal job.
39:06
SPEAKER_01: And finally takeaway number three is the difference between spoken and written words.
39:13
SPEAKER_01: And I think this is where a lot of writers struggle.
39:16
SPEAKER_01: You know words sound different whenever they're spoken versus when they're written.
39:20
SPEAKER_01: And this reminds me of a great recent book that came out written by Joanna Penn from The Creative Pen.
39:25
SPEAKER_01: And this book is titled Audio for Authors.
39:29
SPEAKER_01: And in this book Joanna Penn goes into great detail about why we as writers need to be mindful of audio and the fact that we need to create for audio first and for the written word second.
39:41
SPEAKER_01: And the reason is that we're increasingly living in an audio first world.
39:46
SPEAKER_01: And I do this with my podcast here.
39:48
SPEAKER_01: For example right now I'm reading this from a script and I've written it to be spoken first and then it'll be turned into a blog post and podcast show notes and maybe something else.
39:58
SPEAKER_01: And this was really a switch for me coming from the academic world where you create everything for writing first.
40:05
SPEAKER_01: So if you're creating content that is going to be presented in an audio form, write it in a way that you will actually talk and then you can adjust it later if you're going to put it into a book or podcast show notes or a blog post or an article or something like that.
40:20
SPEAKER_01: I think conversational writing is definitely the way to go unless you're writing for a client where you have to write in a different voice or unless you're doing something more like business oriented like a white paper or a case study or something like that.
40:33
SPEAKER_01: You know it all depends on what you're writing.
40:35
SPEAKER_01: But for things that I'm writing for my audience and for my listeners I want to be very conversational and going audio first actually helps me to do that.
40:44
SPEAKER_01: Well those are three takeaways from this conversation lots of great things to think about.
40:48
SPEAKER_01: I want to give a huge thank you to our guest Jody Krangel.
40:51
SPEAKER_01: Again make sure to check out voiceoversandvocals.com to find out more about her voiceover work, her podcast and all the other cool things that she has going on.
41:01
SPEAKER_01: And as always thank you so much for listening.
41:03
SPEAKER_01: Remember that you can find lots more resources for writers at KentSanders.net and until next time remember that your writing has the power to change people's lives.
41:13
SPEAKER_01: I'll see you in the next episode