Latest / KACC / New Media Show (Audio) - Can Creators Still Build Trust in the AI Era? | Yuri Kleban, Google #694 (Audio)

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New Media Show (Audio) - Can Creators Still Build Trust in the AI Era? | Yuri Kleban, Google #694 (Audio) · KACC

0:00
Rob Greenlee: Hi.
0:00
Rob Greenlee: Well, welcome to the New Media Show.
0:02
Rob Greenlee: The question and the topic tonight is, can creators still build trust in
0:07
Rob Greenlee: the AI era that we're in right now?
0:10
Rob Greenlee: And I know I talk about AI a lot on this show, and we're gonna continue to do that,
0:15
Rob Greenlee: but there's gonna be a l- a little bit of a twist here, 'cause if AI can make a
0:20
Rob Greenlee: message sound more personal, which it will at some point, I think, uh, it's gonna
0:25
Rob Greenlee: be hard to distinguish between AI content and, real human content at some point.
0:30
Rob Greenlee: Hopefully, if the humans get good enough to compete and video will look polished.
0:37
Rob Greenlee: And what earns a creator real trust from its audience is the big question.
0:42
Rob Greenlee: I'm, I'm Rob Greenlee, and really the big question is, as content becomes easier
0:48
Rob Greenlee: to produce, what makes a creator worth trusting, following and supporting?
0:53
Rob Greenlee: So AI and human expertise, credible relationships, and a possible
0:58
Rob Greenlee: future for fan-created shows is what I wanna talk about too.
1:04
Rob Greenlee: So and then we'll also finish with a practical creator action at the end.
1:09
Rob Greenlee: So stay with me, and let's get into it.
1:13
Rob Greenlee VO: Welcome to the New Media Show with human host and
1:16
Rob Greenlee VO: podcast hall-of-famer, Rob Greenlee.
1:33
Rob Greenlee: Well, thank you for being here.
1:36
Rob Greenlee: I wanted to just mention here before I bring up my guest, uh, Yuri Kleban
1:41
Rob Greenlee: who's gonna join me, but I wanted to mention that there's some new
1:44
Rob Greenlee: things on the newmediashow.com
1:47
Rob Greenlee: website, and one is a show supporter a membership area, and it's offering
1:53
Rob Greenlee: in-show visibility, mentions, and focused consulting with me
1:59
Rob Greenlee: bundled together, and it is now open at newmediashow.com/support,
2:06
Rob Greenlee: with, uh, various, , membership levels, and I also have a newsletter in there too.
2:11
Rob Greenlee: So, so go check it out.
2:13
Rob Greenlee: Go to, um…
2:15
Rob Greenlee: Let me pull it up on the screen here.
2:17
Rob Greenlee: Uh, this is where it's at, if you wanted to go check it out, and then also check
2:22
Rob Greenlee: out the new website at newmediashow.com.
2:25
Rob Greenlee: I've been working r- really, really hard to build an entire platform with that, um,
2:31
Rob Greenlee: w- with that website that offers a lot of deeper content, as well as, uh, this whole
2:37
Rob Greenlee: membership area that I'm trying to launch.
2:39
Rob Greenlee: So everybody's into monetization now.
2:41
Rob Greenlee: So this show has been around for most of its life, uh, without any kind of
2:46
Rob Greenlee: advertising or monetization or what- whatever, and, and so it just feels like
2:51
Rob Greenlee: if I'm gonna keep up with the trends, I've gotta offer something in here that
2:54
Rob Greenlee: actually shows that I'm keeping up with what everybody's interested in now, and
2:59
Rob Greenlee: that's monetizing their, their show.
3:01
Rob Greenlee: So let's get into the show.
3:03
Rob Greenlee: I've got a terrific guest with me.
3:05
Rob Greenlee: I'm gonna pull him up on the stage here, and, uh, his name is Yuri Kleban, and
3:11
Rob Greenlee: he's the Global Product Lead Manager in the partnerships area at, uh, at Google,
3:18
Rob Greenlee: and his background spans product, cloud, advertising, partnerships, and his posts
3:24
Rob Greenlee: explore AI, human work, and relationships.
3:28
Rob Greenlee: Yuri, it's great to have you on the, on the New Media Show.
3:31
Yuri Kleban: Hey, thanks so much for having me.
3:33
Yuri Kleban: This is exciting.
3:34
Yuri Kleban: I'm gonna, I try to…
3:35
Yuri Kleban: You know, I know you're supposed to ask me questions, but I probably have
3:38
Yuri Kleban: too many questions to ask you already.
3:40
Rob Greenlee: Oh, no, this is a…
3:41
Rob Greenlee: Th- this show's a total conversation.
3:43
Rob Greenlee: It's not a, it's not a one-way pathway for the, the, the topics here.
3:47
Rob Greenlee: But I do wanna ask you, just to kinda get started here, is what has changed
3:52
Rob Greenlee: your own thinking most about AI and, uh, and humans and people at this point?
3:58
Yuri Kleban: I mean, that's a great question.
3:59
Yuri Kleban: I remember, again, my background being at Google, you're kind of at the belly of
4:03
Yuri Kleban: the beast, and, in my organization we work with a lot of the execs in Alphabet, so-
4:07
Rob Greenlee: Yeah
4:07
Yuri Kleban: I get to hear a lot, so I'm not gonna reveal anything, sorry
4:10
Yuri Kleban: audience- It's okay … but everything you're hearing, you could find this.
4:13
Yuri Kleban: But you- Most people remember the moment, you know, they, they tried ChatGPT,
4:18
Yuri Kleban: and I think there was like a, a two-way street that happened, if you remember.
4:21
Yuri Kleban: Like, they were kinda like, "Oh wow, this is amazing.
4:26
Yuri Kleban: It's not perfect right now, but I know where this is going," right?
4:29
Yuri Kleban: Like, people right away could tell where this is going, where AI is gonna do.
4:33
Yuri Kleban: And then I remember other people are like, "Yeah, this is like
4:35
Yuri Kleban: a, like a hacky thing, you know?
4:37
Yuri Kleban: Like, who cares?
4:39
Yuri Kleban: What, what's gonna happen?"
4:41
Yuri Kleban: And so I think what changed right away is we went from everyone having
4:45
Yuri Kleban: their own doors to now, like, talk to anybody, they'll say, "Oh no, AI,"
4:49
Yuri Kleban: like, whether they like it or not, like it's affecting or there's…
4:53
Yuri Kleban: It is doing something.
4:54
Yuri Kleban: So people have heard about it.
4:56
Yuri Kleban: It's famous.
4:57
Yuri Kleban: And so it's…
4:59
Yuri Kleban: What's the best way to put it?
5:00
Yuri Kleban: We let it out of the, the genie box or the lamp, and it's theref- it's all around us.
5:05
Yuri Kleban: And so I think, and we'll get to the good, the bad and the ugly and
5:08
Yuri Kleban: the, and the nice, but my point is that- I, what has changed is like
5:12
Yuri Kleban: it, it has augmented the way we work.
5:15
Yuri Kleban: Like my work at Google, my work outside- Mm-hmm … with startups, my family,
5:19
Yuri Kleban: I have three young children, so like using AI to help my productivity.
5:23
Yuri Kleban: It has changed it so much that I cannot go back.
5:27
Yuri Kleban: The, the way I like to tell people is I know Rob you're too young
5:30
Yuri Kleban: to remember this, but back in the day we were on 56K modem, which
5:33
Yuri Kleban: is the slow internet, the dial-up.
5:35
Yuri Kleban: Uh, this was my era.
5:37
Yuri Kleban: And then you got the DSL and the high speed, and you're like, "I am
5:40
Yuri Kleban: never going back to that slow world."
5:43
Yuri Kleban: And I think that's what AI has done for most people.
5:46
Yuri Kleban: Forget…
5:46
Yuri Kleban: Again, without the risks, like most people who are just using it for their
5:50
Yuri Kleban: entertainment, for work, they just like are clearly seeing this is the future.
5:54
Yuri Kleban: They already are, and you kind of, you can't take it away from them.
5:58
Yuri Kleban: Does that make sense?
6:00
Rob Greenlee: Yeah, I can, I can kind of have the, this analogy.
6:04
Rob Greenlee: Here, let me put up a different, uh, screen here.
6:07
Rob Greenlee: Hang on here.
6:08
Rob Greenlee: Okay.
6:09
Rob Greenlee: Yeah, I've got an electric car.
6:10
Rob Greenlee: I drive a Tesla, and it's got the full self-driving software, and that's
6:16
Rob Greenlee: built on AI and, and it's, um, it's one of those things I was watching
6:20
Rob Greenlee: a YouTube v- video here and people were saying, "W- once you've had one
6:24
Rob Greenlee: of these cars and you've had full self-driving, you really can't go back."
6:29
Yuri Kleban: That's right.
6:30
Rob Greenlee: And that's kind of, that's a good analogy for what's
6:32
Rob Greenlee: happening with AI right now.
6:34
Rob Greenlee: I think a lot of people that are fully engaged with it can
6:37
Rob Greenlee: really see the value of it and…
6:40
Rob Greenlee: But it is also I've learned that it's very human directed currently right now.
6:45
Rob Greenlee: And that's not to say that it will always be 100% human directed because
6:50
Rob Greenlee: I can I can sense that it's wanting to, you know, take over more and take
6:54
Rob Greenlee: more off my plate and things like that.
6:56
Rob Greenlee: It's actively prompting me to, to enable it to take on more, right?
7:02
Rob Greenlee: And it's an interesting kind of direction that it, it pushes you towards, and
7:06
Rob Greenlee: it doesn't push you towards less work.
7:08
Rob Greenlee: It actually as a human it pushes you towards more work,
7:12
Rob Greenlee: uh, is my experience with it.
7:14
Rob Greenlee: Yeah.
7:14
Rob Greenlee: 'Cause I get really kind of, you know- Your ambitions get really
7:18
Rob Greenlee: high for what you can do and that drives you into engaging with it
7:24
Rob Greenlee: more and working with it more.
7:26
Rob Greenlee: And I can see where the, the usage of AI is just gonna explode because people are
7:30
Rob Greenlee: g- gonna feel empowered by this thing.
7:33
Rob Greenlee: But really, I think to kind of dovetail on what you were just talking about
7:37
Rob Greenlee: is, you know, what earns human trust out there, though, as we move into
7:42
Rob Greenlee: this era of AI doing more for us?
7:45
Rob Greenlee: And th- this is the big goal that I have with the Trust Factor Lab that I'm working
7:49
Rob Greenlee: on is, is trying to identify what those key human elements are that drive trust.
7:55
Rob Greenlee: And trust is a term w- like we were just saying b- before the show
7:59
Rob Greenlee: started, that, you know, that's like the number one issue right now.
8:02
Rob Greenlee: You know, the whole midterms election I think was…
8:06
Rob Greenlee: had the outcome that it did because of a erosion of trust.
8:09
Rob Greenlee: Yeah.
8:09
Rob Greenlee: And people didn't say what they, or didn't do what they said they
8:13
Rob Greenlee: were gonna do, and that's one of the core tenets of trust, right?
8:18
Rob Greenlee: Is, is follow through and doing what you say you're gonna do and, you know,
8:23
Rob Greenlee: being reliable, being honest being straightforward with it, and so much about
8:27
Rob Greenlee: our world right now is just not honest.
8:30
Rob Greenlee: But what's your thought about what…
8:32
Rob Greenlee: I mean, is it the same thing that, that I just said is what
8:36
Rob Greenlee: you think builds human trust?
8:38
Yuri Kleban: Yeah, I mean, to build off of it, and I agree with
8:40
Yuri Kleban: that, is Like I, I created this automation at work that's like a bot.
8:45
Yuri Kleban: Like let's say, Rob, you're my manager, you'll message me, "Yuri,
8:47
Yuri Kleban: what's the latest on this product?
8:48
Yuri Kleban: Like is someone gonna get it?"
8:50
Yuri Kleban: Or whatever, right?
8:51
Yuri Kleban: And I realize I'm getting a lot of messages.
8:53
Yuri Kleban: I don't have enough time, so I build a bot that uses my own knowledge and then
8:57
Yuri Kleban: messages you know, different team members.
9:00
Yuri Kleban: And I realized that they…
9:02
Yuri Kleban: A lot of people didn't like it.
9:04
Yuri Kleban: You know, not only did it say it's from Yuri's bot or whatever, 'cause I, I,
9:07
Yuri Kleban: you know, I like to reveal the truth, but, you know, it's not human as much.
9:12
Yuri Kleban: They would say, "It doesn't sound like you, Yuri."
9:14
Yuri Kleban: So then I build, uh, what I called Yuri mistakes, right?
9:17
Yuri Kleban: English is not my first language, believe it or not, and, and so I infuse it with
9:22
Yuri Kleban: you know, like, uh, mistakes if you may.
9:24
Yuri Kleban: Maybe a wrong comma or dot dot or, you know, like misspell here and there.
9:28
Yuri Kleban: And it seems to me, and we'll, we'll f- we'll find out if
9:31
Yuri Kleban: that's actually helping people.
9:33
Yuri Kleban: Uh, and I'm doing this through emails as well.
9:35
Yuri Kleban: And so I think the first thing, you know, that as, as you're thinking
9:39
Yuri Kleban: about this topic, to me it's…
9:41
Yuri Kleban: There's, you know, to dive right into it, I think there's a place
9:44
Yuri Kleban: for both types of things, right?
9:46
Yuri Kleban: Like first of all, the, uh, AI with creativity, with content creation, right?
9:52
Yuri Kleban: There's people that are gonna love it and there's gonna be people that are gonna
9:54
Yuri Kleban: hate it, and everyone in between, right?
9:56
Yuri Kleban: We know that.
9:57
Yuri Kleban: And I think there's a place for, for both types, right?
10:00
Yuri Kleban: There, there's a reason by the way I personally won't watch sports of
10:04
Yuri Kleban: AI robots, at least right now, or at least I'll want human in there.
10:09
Yuri Kleban: Yeah.
10:09
Yuri Kleban: Because as I, I was kinda mentioning like there's human mistakes.
10:11
Yuri Kleban: Like even the best soccer player- Yeah … in the FIFA World Cup made these mistakes.
10:15
Yuri Kleban: Like, "Oh, I can't believe that person made it."
10:17
Yuri Kleban: So there's this randomness of chance where if AI is playing and one robot
10:21
Yuri Kleban: is just, has better version control, better, you know, optics and, and
10:25
Yuri Kleban: hardware, like it's most likely to win.
10:27
Yuri Kleban: So I think that's to me the same thing with content.
10:31
Yuri Kleban: You're gonna have lots of different types.
10:34
Yuri Kleban: I think people are gonna…
10:35
Yuri Kleban: There's gonna be people who are like, "I need to know that this is gluten-free,"
10:39
Yuri Kleban: or, "This was, you know, farm fre…"
10:41
Yuri Kleban: Like, you know, there, the chickens were running around.
10:43
Yuri Kleban: Right.
10:43
Yuri Kleban: There's people like, "I don't care.
10:45
Yuri Kleban: Sorry, I don't care about the chickens.
10:46
Yuri Kleban: Just give me the cheapest thing ever or whatever is num- you know, mind-numbing."
10:50
Yuri Kleban: So I think that's where I see there's gonna be, again, a spectrum of things,
10:53
Yuri Kleban: and I'm very positive about this.
10:55
Yuri Kleban: I think once we remove this era, I, I see a lot of the AI slop or a way to just, you
11:01
Yuri Kleban: know, move away so, so these, these, uh…
11:04
Yuri Kleban: Like when you go on YouTube, right, and you get your recommendations, imagine
11:07
Yuri Kleban: that's getting so good, so much better.
11:10
Rob Greenlee: Yeah.
11:10
Yuri Kleban: Then I think again it doesn't…
11:12
Yuri Kleban: Like it'll just ideally give you what you're wanting to watch.
11:15
Yuri Kleban: It should propose new things.
11:16
Yuri Kleban: I'm all for that.
11:17
Yuri Kleban: I don't think you should be in an echo chamber.
11:19
Yuri Kleban: But again, I'm very excited of the amount of AI, non-AI, and the hybrid That's gonna
11:26
Yuri Kleban: be all across- Yeah … both in content and, and outside as we talk, like what
11:29
Yuri Kleban: you could do outside of the show, outside of the, the entertainment w- with it.
11:34
Yuri Kleban: What do you think?
11:35
Rob Greenlee: Yeah, I think that the hybrid is where
11:37
Rob Greenlee: we're, we're going to land.
11:39
Rob Greenlee: And i- and increasingly I'm seeing that happen.
11:42
Rob Greenlee: I had the CEO of Descript on the show and Laura was very, um, adamant
11:46
Rob Greenlee: with me 'cause I was pushing her on this element of, well, you know, y-
11:51
Rob Greenlee: your tool will eventually be able to make all the content, right?
11:53
Rob Greenlee: And she's, like, going, "No, that's not what we're building.
11:55
Rob Greenlee: W- what we're building is a tool to make human content better."
11:59
Rob Greenlee: And that's that, that middle ground, right?
12:03
Rob Greenlee: You know, 'cause our whole society's focused on this AI slop thing or
12:07
Rob Greenlee: human content slop, which is almost like, you know, like the political
12:12
Rob Greenlee: polarization topic to some degree.
12:14
Rob Greenlee: It's, it's one extreme to the other, right?
12:16
Rob Greenlee: But maybe where the real solution here is and the real value
12:21
Rob Greenlee: is in the middle somewhere.
12:23
Rob Greenlee: And I think this election just pointed that out to us, is that the middle is
12:27
Rob Greenlee: actually trust And it's also about using tools in a responsible way, us- making the
12:35
Rob Greenlee: use of AI kind of, built on a foundation of human responsibility, and that's what's
12:42
Rob Greenlee: interesting to me as I think about this.
12:44
Rob Greenlee: 'Cause this show is pretty much all AI, but I do use AI to help me come up
12:49
Rob Greenlee: with ideas, and create the artwork, and things like that- Yeah … which are all
12:53
Rob Greenlee: complementary, not a replacement for.
12:55
Rob Greenlee: And I think that's that hybrid that I'm talking about, and, and I think
12:59
Rob Greenlee: that's what I want to symbolize out there in the world, and that's why I,
13:03
Rob Greenlee: I'm pushing on this show, and trying to make it better, and try and build
13:07
Rob Greenlee: it and make it more relevant to people.
13:10
Yuri Kleban: L- let me ask you this, 'cause I, I think, you know, your
13:12
Yuri Kleban: audience and yourself, you hear a lot about AI slop, and most people
13:15
Yuri Kleban: are like, "I hate I- AI slop."
13:17
Yuri Kleban: You know- Now,
13:17
Rob Greenlee: what is AI slop, really?
13:19
Yuri Kleban: A- again, and everyone has their own version.
13:20
Yuri Kleban: AI slop usually- Right … you know, the definition is you go into, let's say,
13:23
Yuri Kleban: Gemini, and say, "Create this video," and it's like, it does it, and then you
13:27
Yuri Kleban: go, "This is the best thing ever," right?
13:28
Yuri Kleban: And then- Right … and you do, like, thousands, millions of these.
13:31
Yuri Kleban: I was having this, this thought in my mind.
13:33
Yuri Kleban: I don't…
13:35
Yuri Kleban: Uh, well, let me ask you this, actually, instead of…
13:37
Yuri Kleban: Reality TV shows, right?
13:39
Yuri Kleban: They…
13:39
Yuri Kleban: The Kardashians and all those.
13:41
Yuri Kleban: Do you personally watch them, Rob?
13:43
Yuri Kleban: Is…
13:43
Yuri Kleban: If I'm putting you on the spot, is that kind of your- No
13:45
Yuri Kleban: your cup of tea?
13:46
Yuri Kleban: No.
13:46
Yuri Kleban: Right.
13:46
Rob Greenlee: No.
13:47
Yuri Kleban: Figured.
13:48
Rob Greenlee: I know- No, I wanna try and l- learn something
13:50
Rob Greenlee: from content that I watch or-
13:53
Yuri Kleban: That's totally fair.
13:54
Yuri Kleban: Right.
13:54
Yuri Kleban: Right … same for me.
13:55
Yuri Kleban: Not my cup of tea.
13:56
Yuri Kleban: And you and I could go and judge people, and I have relatives and family who, who
14:00
Yuri Kleban: love these shows, and then you realize, like, you know, who are we to judge?
14:04
Yuri Kleban: This is their entertainment.
14:05
Yuri Kleban: If- Yeah … if it's not hurting anybody, usually, right?
14:08
Yuri Kleban: It usually doesn't hurt anybody, it's just a waste of time or
14:10
Yuri Kleban: whatever it is or that kind of…
14:13
Yuri Kleban: To me, I know this is gonna sound maybe controversial, but I've already
14:16
Yuri Kleban: met people who love watching AI slop.
14:20
Yuri Kleban: And then by the way, th- there's people like we're t- there was a buddy of mine
14:22
Yuri Kleban: who was like, "I love watching like, there's these videos on TikTok of these
14:27
Yuri Kleban: gentlemen eating sandwiches in their car.
14:29
Yuri Kleban: And I'm like, "Isn't that AI slop?"
14:30
Yuri Kleban: "No, this really real."
14:32
Yuri Kleban: And then there's these AI s- what I call AI slop, these, um-
14:35
Yuri Kleban: Yeah … over-romanticized, they're like 30 or like few minute like, uh,
14:40
Yuri Kleban: it's like dramas that it's all AI.
14:42
Yuri Kleban: You know it's AI 'cause all the people are super perfect and chiseled and whatever,
14:46
Yuri Kleban: and the, the dialogue is, my, my gosh, like something, you know, I could probably
14:50
Yuri Kleban: come up 'cause I'm not creative like that.
14:51
Yuri Kleban: And my point is, I also know a lot of people that are just watching it.
14:54
Yuri Kleban: They know it's commercial, they know it's AI, and they just love it.
14:58
Yuri Kleban: So my kind of take is if people really like it, like why wouldn't you wanna
15:03
Yuri Kleban: produce it if that's what you're doing?
15:04
Yuri Kleban: Right.
15:04
Yuri Kleban: Does that make sense?
15:05
Rob Greenlee: Yeah, I think it does make sense bec- I mean, I, I watch quite
15:08
Rob Greenlee: a bit of AI g- generated content and, you know, I think that the gradient
15:13
Rob Greenlee: of what is considered to be slop, I, I think is probably more to do with
15:19
Rob Greenlee: how it's put together and how the AI is used, and I think that's been
15:24
Rob Greenlee: a gradient for human content too.
15:26
Rob Greenlee: You know?
15:26
Rob Greenlee: And it, it's, you know, there's, there is such a thing a- and a
15:30
Rob Greenlee: concept of human content slop too.
15:33
Rob Greenlee: Yes.
15:33
Rob Greenlee: So, you know, so in a lot of ways the this AI content was very roughly put together,
15:42
Rob Greenlee: was not fully formed, was not fully conceived and, and produced, and maybe
15:48
Rob Greenlee: the early years of AI just didn't have the ability to produce something that someone
15:52
Rob Greenlee: would seem or see as something of quality.
15:56
Rob Greenlee: And so that's where this label AI slop came from, right?
15:59
Rob Greenlee: Was the sloppy early years of AI content.
16:03
Rob Greenlee: And but that was the case with podcasts and other online content.
16:08
Rob Greenlee: I know, you know, a really great example of this is my own channel at
16:13
Rob Greenlee: YouTube which I started about 19, 20 years ago, and I posted a bunch of
16:18
Rob Greenlee: really rough, kind of fuzzy imaged car videos back in that timeframe about
16:25
Rob Greenlee: a Toyota Camry Hybrid or whatever 'cause I had bought one back in 2006.
16:30
Rob Greenlee: And so I did this whole series called Behind the Wheel and posted these
16:34
Rob Greenlee: videos about my Toyota Camry and my experience with it at different
16:38
Rob Greenlee: mileage points, things like that.
16:40
Yuri Kleban: Mm-hmm.
16:40
Rob Greenlee: Those videos got, you know, 200,000 or 300,000 views over
16:44
Rob Greenlee: a s- subsequent period of years, and they were not quality content.
16:48
Rob Greenlee: But they were authentic.
16:50
Rob Greenlee: They were real.
16:50
Rob Greenlee: It, they solved- I think a, a need that the…
16:55
Rob Greenlee: Yeah, 'cause those videos don't get much traffic now.
16:58
Rob Greenlee: But they got a lot for many years because I think they were solving a need
17:03
Rob Greenlee: where people were considering buying a Toyota Camry Hybrid and they wanted
17:07
Rob Greenlee: to see someone talk about it, right?
17:09
Rob Greenlee: And their own experiences with it before they made that decision.
17:12
Rob Greenlee: So, you know, there's always a purpose behind this content, and
17:15
Rob Greenlee: how it's produced, we oftentimes, um, get kind of wrapped up in.
17:21
Rob Greenlee: Um, but it's really more about, well, what's actually in the content?
17:25
Rob Greenlee: But then w- we're in this era of, you know, to some degree it's the
17:29
Rob Greenlee: splash and the tease of it of sorts.
17:32
Rob Greenlee: Um, there's got to be substance there, but, you know, I think, you know, at
17:37
Rob Greenlee: least on YouTube I see is that there's a lot of splash about, you know, how you
17:42
Rob Greenlee: lead in and how you tease questions that don't have an answer to them, and it h-
17:47
Rob Greenlee: hopefully keeps people hanging around.
17:50
Rob Greenlee: So, but that's a very human thing, right?
17:52
Yuri Kleban: Yeah.
17:53
Rob Greenlee: I don't know that AI would automatically do those kinds of things.
17:56
Yuri Kleban: No, I'm I'm with you.
17:57
Yuri Kleban: But again, I go back to examples.
17:59
Yuri Kleban: One of the earliest AI sound that I've heard was, I think it was like
18:03
Yuri Kleban: Steve Job and Einstein or some, like, famous folks who passed away-
18:06
Yuri Kleban: Yeah, yeah … and someone used their AI to recreate their voices.
18:11
Yuri Kleban: Ah, yeah.
18:11
Yuri Kleban: And I'm listening to this and I know that this is not real,
18:14
Yuri Kleban: but I'm drawn to it, Rob.
18:15
Yuri Kleban: 'Cause I'm like, it's very interesting, and I know that they
18:18
Yuri Kleban: use an AI to create the script.
18:20
Yuri Kleban: Is it as good as someone who's a movie maker or knows how to do entertainment,
18:24
Yuri Kleban: big budget movies and shows?
18:26
Yuri Kleban: I know it's not, but there's something about it.
18:28
Yuri Kleban: I mean, you kind of talked about this.
18:29
Yuri Kleban: It's new, it's fresh, it's something I haven't seen before.
18:33
Yuri Kleban: And, like, it's hard to recreate with real human actors who are like that.
18:37
Rob Greenlee: Yeah, you can't.
18:38
Rob Greenlee: Right.
18:39
Rob Greenlee: And let's be honest, Hol- Hollywood has been using AI-like technology for years.
18:43
Rob Greenlee: It's called CGI.
18:45
Yuri Kleban: That's right.
18:45
Yuri Kleban: Exactly.
18:45
Rob Greenlee: And so n- not everything that we've seen in Hollywood, in
18:48
Rob Greenlee: the movies, has been real either.
18:50
Rob Greenlee: So, you know, I think the…
18:51
Rob Greenlee: I think people just get caught up in the the kind of doomer hype cycle stuff about
18:57
Rob Greenlee: this stuff, and don't, don't really see the forest through the trees of sorts
19:01
Rob Greenlee: of what the potential of this stuff is.
19:03
Rob Greenlee: It's just another tool.
19:04
Rob Greenlee: It's another tool that is gonna enable us to create content that humans would
19:10
Rob Greenlee: probably not be able to c- create.
19:12
Rob Greenlee: And I think that's the best use of it too, is to create these fantasy worlds.
19:16
Rob Greenlee: I don't know if you've seen these vertical videos that are coming out about, you
19:19
Rob Greenlee: know, the, these, these future worlds and things like that where people are or
19:25
Rob Greenlee: in the past or whatever that are going through the, the Egyptian times and stuff.
19:30
Rob Greenlee: And then there's this modern woman that's taking you on a tour- Yes … of
19:33
Rob Greenlee: the pyramids or something from back in the, you know- Before Christ
19:38
Rob Greenlee: timeframe or something like that.
19:40
Rob Greenlee: And it's, you know, that's the perfect use for AI, right?
19:43
Rob Greenlee: It's, it's not to replace this kind of stuff that we're doing right here.
19:47
Rob Greenlee: It's to replace fantasy.
19:49
Rob Greenlee: It's to replace creating different experiences.
19:52
Yuri Kleban: Yeah.
19:53
Yuri Kleban: And kind of to build, like, on the trust, like, again, there's…
19:56
Yuri Kleban: Trust is so much…
19:57
Yuri Kleban: There's one definition, but it's a perception, right?
20:00
Yuri Kleban: Like, a lot of what we're living in is a perception that our
20:03
Yuri Kleban: brain is doing through our eyes.
20:05
Yuri Kleban: Right.
20:05
Yuri Kleban: And to me, right, and not to get philosophical, but if you go back
20:08
Yuri Kleban: to, like, again I know YouTube a lot 'cause I work with a lot of
20:11
Yuri Kleban: different creator, content creators and folks backstage in YouTube.
20:15
Yuri Kleban: It's just interesting to see that world.
20:17
Yuri Kleban: And really again, where the, the trust comes in, um, it's…
20:23
Yuri Kleban: I mean, you, you already said the authenticity or you, like,
20:26
Yuri Kleban: like the people creating it start creating the same type of a content.
20:30
Yuri Kleban: Like, I think you and I talked about, uh, what is a diary of a CEO, right?
20:34
Yuri Kleban: He created something that people were kinda trying to do, but it was his format,
20:38
Yuri Kleban: it was his way of doing the podcast, it was his graphics, it was how he's talking.
20:43
Yuri Kleban: Like, he built that authenticity, right?
20:46
Yuri Kleban: Mm-hmm.
20:46
Yuri Kleban: And in the world of AI, why shouldn't he be allowed, if he wants to, like,
20:52
Yuri Kleban: say, "Hey, I can't interview everybody," or, "I don't wanna interview Yuri.
20:55
Yuri Kleban: He's not famous CEO, but I would love to have, like, a kind of like a TEDx," right?
21:00
Yuri Kleban: A diary CEO, CEO X, and you talk to his AI agent and it interviews and then
21:06
Yuri Kleban: his producers pick the best, like, X versions of Yuri who's from Google, right?
21:11
Yuri Kleban: I'm just throwing ideas of that becomes again…
21:14
Yuri Kleban: And, and to me, like, you have to label AI and we could talk about this.
21:17
Yuri Kleban: I think you shouldn't try to hide that.
21:18
Yuri Kleban: I think that's weird if you do, but, like, own it.
21:21
Yuri Kleban: Like, "Hey, I use AI for this, but here's the human hybrid element."
21:24
Yuri Kleban: It was human.
21:25
Yuri Kleban: Yuri was talking to the, the AI version of Steven and look, it's interesting enough
21:30
Yuri Kleban: that we brought it up and you don't know how many people are gonna listen to this.
21:33
Yuri Kleban: Like, that's where I think it could actually extend different content creators
21:38
Yuri Kleban: to, to world, like from that kind of way to, like, all the C- I mean, you mentioned
21:42
Yuri Kleban: the CGI, all these effects that you could do now that, hey, unless you're earning,
21:46
Yuri Kleban: like, $200,000 from all these episodes, like, you cannot afford to go to LA and,
21:52
Yuri Kleban: you know, have a studio grade explosion, you know, to put on, on, on your show.
21:57
Yuri Kleban: Does that make sense?
21:59
Rob Greenlee: Yeah.
21:59
Rob Greenlee: Yeah, I think it does.
22:00
Rob Greenlee: I mean, I think it totally makes sense and I, I do wonder, Once we get into
22:05
Rob Greenlee: this next phase where I'm speculating and I've been putting it out there
22:08
Rob Greenlee: that I think probably 95% of the content that is gonna be available
22:14
Rob Greenlee: online will be eventually AI generated.
22:17
Rob Greenlee: Um- Fully,
22:18
Yuri Kleban: fully AI?
22:18
Rob Greenlee: Yeah, fully AI.
22:20
Yuri Kleban: 100%.
22:21
Yuri Kleban: Interesting.
22:22
Rob Greenlee: Well, I think it, it's gonna be 95%.
22:24
Rob Greenlee: So, and I think- 95 … there's gonna be probably 5%, maybe 10%
22:28
Rob Greenlee: of the content will be produced as human-created content or human with
22:33
Rob Greenlee: AI a- augmentation or enhancement.
22:37
Rob Greenlee: Um- Well,
22:37
Yuri Kleban: let, let me ask you this.
22:38
Yuri Kleban: How much of that 90 the content that's 95% AI, how much, like out of 100% of
22:44
Yuri Kleban: all the content, let's say on YouTube or in TikTok, whatever, how much
22:47
Yuri Kleban: do you think people are gonna watch that content versus more hybrid, I
22:52
Yuri Kleban: don't know, 50/50 or 90/10 or zero?
22:55
Rob Greenlee: Well, I th- the, the reason that I say that is because I,
22:58
Rob Greenlee: I think the content that will be able to be produced will actually be better
23:03
Rob Greenlee: in a different way than human content.
23:05
Rob Greenlee: Right.
23:05
Rob Greenlee: Because we are in a, a era, even right now, that's very
23:10
Rob Greenlee: crowded with content, right?
23:12
Rob Greenlee: Very f- flooded with content, and there's a lot of human content out
23:17
Rob Greenlee: there that's not very good, right?
23:18
Rob Greenlee: So part of this e- evolution that I think is gonna happen is, is that
23:23
Rob Greenlee: the game is gonna get raised, right?
23:26
Rob Greenlee: The AI content's gonna get better and better, and that's gonna push out a
23:30
Rob Greenlee: lot of, um, uh, you know, on-camera kinda human creators that aren't
23:35
Rob Greenlee: gonna be able to compete against it.
23:37
Rob Greenlee: Um- I
23:37
Yuri Kleban: see.
23:38
Rob Greenlee: So it's gonna, it's gonna stratify the market.
23:41
Rob Greenlee: Yeah … and so it'll be, you know, like the top 10%, uh, human creators
23:46
Rob Greenlee: that will be able to continue doing what they're doing that
23:48
Rob Greenlee: will compete with the AI content.
23:51
Rob Greenlee: So there's gonna be a lot of content out there available, and it…
23:54
Rob Greenlee: W- we're already in that world right now where there's, you know…
23:58
Rob Greenlee: I even question my mind even doing this show because it's like this is
24:02
Rob Greenlee: just another conversation, right?
24:04
Rob Greenlee: Amongst, you know, 50 million conversations that were
24:07
Rob Greenlee: probably published today, right?
24:09
Rob Greenlee: So how do you…
24:10
Rob Greenlee: It's not like the early years when I started my radio show when I was just
24:14
Rob Greenlee: part of, like, maybe a hun- maybe 100 or 50 shows across the country
24:18
Rob Greenlee: that were talking about technology.
24:19
Rob Greenlee: It was kind of a rare thing, and it was people, once they found it,
24:23
Rob Greenlee: it was like they, they tuned in.
24:24
Rob Greenlee: But when there's an abundance of content out there that's beyond most
24:30
Rob Greenlee: people's ability or time to consume then what, what rises to the top?
24:35
Rob Greenlee: And it's gonna be the best content, right?
24:38
Rob Greenlee: Or the…
24:39
Rob Greenlee: Unfortunately, and we're already seeing it in the market, like the MrBeast or The
24:44
Rob Greenlee: Diary of a CEO, and that has a team of 40 people that are working on producing it.
24:49
Rob Greenlee: So we're heading back to a similar time to what we went through many
24:53
Rob Greenlee: years ago around broadcast television, around the production quality and
24:58
Rob Greenlee: Hollywood and things like that.
24:59
Rob Greenlee: I think we're shifting back to an era like that, and the big question I have is,
25:03
Rob Greenlee: well, how many creators are gonna be able to do the level of content that is gonna
25:09
Rob Greenlee: be expected in the market because of AI?
25:12
Yuri Kleban: A- and that's fair.
25:13
Yuri Kleban: And, and let's look at, at the numbers, and I just pulled this up
25:16
Yuri Kleban: just- Mm-hmm … just to kind of have something to, to, to- Yeah … react to.
25:19
Yuri Kleban: I searched for the most viewed videos.
25:21
Yuri Kleban: Like, what are people watching on YouTube, right?
25:24
Yuri Kleban: Mm-hmm.
25:25
Yuri Kleban: A- and, and the, the top, you know, eight of them, it's either, like, a Baby Shark,
25:30
Yuri Kleban: Wheels on the Bus, like kids videos- Yeah
25:32
Yuri Kleban: animations.
25:33
Yuri Kleban: So you're, you're correct.
25:34
Yuri Kleban: You could technically- Yeah … have AI easily redo that.
25:37
Yuri Kleban: Not easily- Yeah … but you could do that.
25:39
Yuri Kleban: Uh, then you have Despacito, uh, and all these music videos, like See You Again.
25:44
Yuri Kleban: And again, that could have AI in it, but I'm wondering, again, at what
25:49
Yuri Kleban: stage are we gonna be in a humanity that similar to athletes that you
25:53
Yuri Kleban: in- aspire to be today, like, I don't hear a lot of people like, "Oh, I, I
25:57
Yuri Kleban: aspire to be this AI athlete," right?
26:00
Yuri Kleban: I wanna be like Michael Jordan, not like AI Jordan, right?
26:03
Yuri Kleban: I'm wondering, like, for singers or those kind of entertainers, again,
26:06
Yuri Kleban: how much people are gonna wanna watch those live or their music
26:10
Yuri Kleban: video versus some AI version of them.
26:13
Yuri Kleban: I, I don't have the answer, but I'm saying, like, that to me,
26:16
Yuri Kleban: like, those are the categories that I think could be disrupted,
26:18
Yuri Kleban: and then there's all the podcasts, and that's gonna be a g- question.
26:22
Yuri Kleban: Is that more like sports or podcasts?
26:24
Yuri Kleban: Like, why are people tuning in to the podcast?
26:27
Yuri Kleban: Is it the, just the written content that- Mm … anyone in AI can
26:31
Yuri Kleban: deliver, or is it the, the human element that it's harder to get?
26:35
Yuri Kleban: And yeah, so what, what do you- Yeah … what do you think about that?
26:37
Rob Greenlee: Yeah, and the w- what pulls people increasingly into podcasts I think
26:42
Rob Greenlee: is the, is, it is the personality, right?
26:46
Rob Greenlee: It's the, it's the- Yes … personal brand.
26:48
Rob Greenlee: It's the reputation.
26:50
Rob Greenlee: It's, uh, more and more it's, um, those folks that, that have a- Reputation of
26:57
Rob Greenlee: inspiring others for dramatic change or dramatic improvements, you know.
27:02
Rob Greenlee: L- like the Huberman Labs guy is a good example of a guy that comes on
27:07
Rob Greenlee: and, you know, he's written all these books on startups and, and h- i- is
27:12
Rob Greenlee: inspiring people to transform their, their lives and take some independence
27:16
Rob Greenlee: and do their own thing and be successful, and he's a good example of that.
27:21
Rob Greenlee: And so I think those are the kind of personalities.
27:23
Rob Greenlee: It's the ones that are driving transformation are the ones
27:27
Rob Greenlee: that are doing well now.
27:29
Rob Greenlee: Right.
27:29
Rob Greenlee: Because those folks stand out.
27:31
Yuri Kleban: No, I, I agree.
27:31
Yuri Kleban: I'm, again, I'm just double-clicking.
27:33
Yuri Kleban: Yeah.
27:33
Yuri Kleban: I know a lot of people that, uh, I know personally that love MrBeast.
27:38
Yuri Kleban: Why?
27:38
Yuri Kleban: Because it's unique, but he puts humans…
27:41
Yuri Kleban: Like, "What would I do with a million dollars?
27:43
Yuri Kleban: What is a million-dollar hotel versus one dollar?"
27:46
Yuri Kleban: And again, maybe AI, again, I don't wanna, like, go on record 100% people won't
27:50
Yuri Kleban: watch it, but I think there's, like, this hu- human element to it, right?
27:54
Yuri Kleban: But at the same time, think of movies and shows, and we can get into that.
27:58
Yuri Kleban: Yeah.
27:58
Yuri Kleban: Like, to your point, I, I think that's where the disruption
28:01
Yuri Kleban: is gonna be major, right?
28:03
Yuri Kleban: Now, someone in a village in the middle of nowhere in the world, as long as they have
28:07
Yuri Kleban: internet connection and Gemini, ChatGPT, Claude, any of the LLMs or open source-
28:12
Yuri Kleban: Yeah … now can compete in a way with the big leagues because it's the- Yeah
28:18
Yuri Kleban: imagination that they're…
28:20
Yuri Kleban: Like, as long as they have imagination as good as the director, writer, creators.
28:24
Yuri Kleban: I'm not saying it's- Yeah … gonna be one-to-one, but I'm seeing really great
28:29
Yuri Kleban: content created- Oh … by, like, s- people who you never would think about.
28:33
Yuri Kleban: That's one.
28:34
Yuri Kleban: But then again, I'm, for example, a huge fan on Quentin Tarantino and Spielberg.
28:39
Yuri Kleban: But you know this better than I do, Rob, Rob.
28:41
Yuri Kleban: How long does it take for them to produce a movie from beginning to end?
28:45
Rob Greenlee: Right.
28:45
Yuri Kleban: I w- I, everyone, I'm sorry to say, we all die.
28:48
Yuri Kleban: I believe that at least.
28:49
Yuri Kleban: And so I wanna see more Tarantino and Spielberg movies, like 20 every quarter.
28:54
Yuri Kleban: And yes, some of them will be flops or AI slop.
28:57
Yuri Kleban: But how exciting is that, that if we are allowing them and they want
29:00
Yuri Kleban: to, like, we get more of their art, more of their ideas out.
29:04
Yuri Kleban: If, again, they have…
29:04
Yuri Kleban: I'm not saying we should pressure.
29:05
Yuri Kleban: But that's where I'm saying, like, I s- I see AI again as more of a positive
29:09
Yuri Kleban: helping- Yeah, I do too … and, and equalizing for some of the other folks
29:12
Yuri Kleban: who never would get these opportunities.
29:14
Yuri Kleban: But like-
29:14
Rob Greenlee: Well, and I think the the, the, there's another little piece
29:16
Rob Greenlee: of this too that's out there that's brewing as well, and that's the entirely
29:21
Rob Greenlee: AI-created personalities and, um- And performers, um, that are being created by-
29:28
Yuri Kleban: That's right
29:28
Yuri Kleban: … Rob Greenlee: by, you know, these agents, networks, the WMEs or what- whatever
29:34
Yuri Kleban: th- th- that are creating their own portfolio of AI personalities, right?
29:38
Yuri Kleban: And building portfolios around them.
29:41
Yuri Kleban: And I've talked to a couple of companies that are in the music industry that
29:44
Yuri Kleban: are creating whole new music artists-
29:47
Yuri Kleban: Oh, yes
29:47
Yuri Kleban: … Rob Greenlee: uh, just entirely in AI.
29:49
Yuri Kleban: And what they're talking about doing is, is creating just a complete library of,
29:54
Yuri Kleban: of high-quality music by that artist, building that artist's kind of like
29:59
Yuri Kleban: personal brand, their, their clothing, the, you know, clothing lines, and then
30:05
Yuri Kleban: taking that AI brand that's been built and converting it into the real world.
30:11
Yuri Kleban: Hiring an actress or an actor to portray that AI personality, and to
30:17
Yuri Kleban: sell products that are related to what's represented in the AI experience.
30:22
Yuri Kleban: And they're photorealistic.
30:24
Yuri Kleban: They look like they're the real thing.
30:27
Yuri Kleban: So I think it could go the other way.
30:29
Yuri Kleban: I think we've been very focused on human to business opportunity type
30:33
Yuri Kleban: of situations, or taking the human and then making a, an AI clone of
30:38
Yuri Kleban: that human and expanding that, but there's a lot of pushback on that.
30:43
Yuri Kleban: But I think taking a pure AI generated personality and extending it into
30:48
Yuri Kleban: being human is an interesting kind of twist on the scenario.
30:53
Yuri Kleban: Yeah and, and let's take one use case, and I remember
30:56
Yuri Kleban: researching before talking to you.
30:57
Yuri Kleban: Have you heard of, let me see, The Velvet Sundown?
31:00
Yuri Kleban: Have you
31:01
Rob Greenlee: heard of this?
31:01
Rob Greenlee: No, I haven't heard of this one.
31:02
Rob Greenlee: Oh.
31:02
Yuri Kleban: This was like a, and I'm quoting him, "1960s
31:05
Yuri Kleban: style psych rock band."
31:06
Yuri Kleban: They appeared on Spotify-
31:08
Rob Greenlee: Yeah
31:08
Rob Greenlee: … Yuri Kleban: in 2025 out of nowhere.
31:10
Rob Greenlee: I think they got over a million listeners.
31:13
Rob Greenlee: Like, it was going pretty big, and then someone revealed that it's AI,
31:16
Rob Greenlee: and then, like, viewership dropped.
31:18
Rob Greenlee: Yeah, of course.
31:19
Yuri Kleban: Right?
31:19
Yuri Kleban: They, they, they- Once they find out, right … exactly.
31:20
Yuri Kleban: They didn't disclose.
31:21
Yuri Kleban: But again, in a blind test, it's like, you know, like those people are like, "I
31:24
Yuri Kleban: know the best hamburgers," and you give them McDonald's in, in a nice way that
31:27
Yuri Kleban: looks nice, and they taste it, "This is the best thing," and then you reveal
31:30
Yuri Kleban: it's McDonald's, and they spit it out.
31:32
Yuri Kleban: I do believe what you're saying, that I think whether it's us or our
31:35
Yuri Kleban: children's children, taste can change over time, over centuries, over
31:39
Yuri Kleban: decades, even over a year or six months.
31:41
Yuri Kleban: So I'm not betting against that.
31:43
Yuri Kleban: I do believe, as earlier mentioned, I'm, I'm gonna die on this hill.
31:46
Yuri Kleban: Like, I think I would encourage people to disclose it ahead of time, like you said.
31:50
Yuri Kleban: Oh, yeah.
31:50
Yuri Kleban: Like the personalities that you mentioned, I don't think they're trying
31:53
Yuri Kleban: to trick people, 'cause as soon as you trick people, and they f- they
31:55
Yuri Kleban: will find out, then game over, right?
31:58
Rob Greenlee: Yeah, I do agree 100% with that.
32:01
Rob Greenlee: And I think if you're gonna create a, an AI personality, just build it
32:06
Rob Greenlee: into the content of what you're doing.
32:07
Rob Greenlee: Just have the AI personality identify themselves as a digital version or a, or
32:13
Rob Greenlee: a AI you know, kind of a representation of something or what- whatever.
32:18
Rob Greenlee: It's just in the, in the dialogue of what's happening in the AI, and just make
32:22
Rob Greenlee: it part of it so it's obvious in the The viewer or the listener or whatever knows
32:28
Rob Greenlee: right up front what they're getting.
32:30
Rob Greenlee: There's no surprises, all this kind of stuff.
32:32
Rob Greenlee: I'm not a big fan of the, you know, the little AI button
32:36
Rob Greenlee: on the screen or whatever.
32:38
Rob Greenlee: It just feels like that is kind of, kind of just a temporary thing.
32:42
Rob Greenlee: I do wonder if we're gonna hit an era where you're gonna have to
32:45
Rob Greenlee: have a certified human content.
32:48
Rob Greenlee: You know-
32:49
Rob Greenlee: And where it's … You're not gonna have to identify the AI content 'cause people
32:53
Rob Greenlee: will just assume it's AI, um, from- I,
32:56
Yuri Kleban: I agree with you, by the way … from day one.
32:58
Yuri Kleban: Just to give you an example, I forgot where it was, which country, but I
33:01
Yuri Kleban: remember, remember there was a, a huge cra- I mean, still, like, organic,
33:05
Yuri Kleban: everything organic, and I love it, right?
33:07
Yuri Kleban: For my kids, I buy organic.
33:08
Yuri Kleban: Mm-hmm.
33:08
Yuri Kleban: For me I'm a lost cause.
33:09
Yuri Kleban: Yeah, I do too.
33:10
Yuri Kleban: But it was a big, it was a big thing, right?
33:12
Yuri Kleban: And I remember somewhere, and I'm, I'm not kidding, I need to find this.
33:14
Yuri Kleban: We can Google later.
33:16
Yuri Kleban: There's a water brand that said, "We're also organic or vegan," and all that.
33:20
Yuri Kleban: And it's like, to your point, like, water didn't have to
33:23
Yuri Kleban: tell you what it was before.
33:24
Yuri Kleban: It was always this way.
33:25
Yuri Kleban: Right.
33:25
Yuri Kleban: But in this world … So to your point, I do believe you're gonna
33:30
Yuri Kleban: start seeing … I, I know YouTube is starting to even show you, like, "Hey,
33:33
Yuri Kleban: this AI's content we've detected."
33:36
Yuri Kleban: But you're right, the opposite, I think, is gonna be something people,
33:39
Yuri Kleban: uh, look for to say- Mm-hmm … "This is … Look, Rob and Yuri's conversation
33:43
Yuri Kleban: 100% the humans are authentic."
33:46
Yuri Kleban: Yeah.
33:46
Yuri Kleban: Those little screens that say their name, that's AI, sorry
33:49
Yuri Kleban: to tell you or whatever, right?
33:51
Yuri Kleban: Like-
33:51
Rob Greenlee: Yeah
33:51
Rob Greenlee: … Yuri Kleban: I, I think that's gonna be something again.
33:53
Rob Greenlee: And you're gonna have people who love it, who are like, "Rob, I just want humans.
33:58
Rob Greenlee: Cut the AI.
33:59
Rob Greenlee: You know, like, get off my porch.
34:01
Rob Greenlee: Like, I've loved this my whole life.
34:02
Rob Greenlee: That's how I want it."
34:03
Rob Greenlee: And there's gonna be people like, " I love the AI part.
34:05
Rob Greenlee: I, I don't care."
34:06
Rob Greenlee: And there's gonna people like, "Oh, actually, I don't like humans.
34:09
Rob Greenlee: They're destroying the earth.
34:10
Rob Greenlee: I like AI," right?
34:11
Rob Greenlee: So you're gonna appeal to a lot of different audiences.
34:14
Rob Greenlee: But what do you think?
34:15
Rob Greenlee: Yes.
34:16
Rob Greenlee: Yeah, I do think that there's gonna be a hybrid approach.
34:19
Rob Greenlee: I think it's still a little early to do, do a hybrid approach e- even
34:24
Rob Greenlee: though I do know creators that are out there, especially on YouTube right
34:28
Rob Greenlee: now, that are doing a hybrid human/AI clone approach, and it's successful.
34:35
Rob Greenlee: And it really gets back to how it's done, what's the quality of
34:39
Rob Greenlee: it, and what's the curation that's done by the human of the AI.
34:43
Rob Greenlee: And that it's fully disclosed.
34:44
Rob Greenlee: It's, it's not like it's trying to fool anybody.
34:47
Rob Greenlee: And, and that's what's interesting about what YouTube is doing is I know they
34:50
Rob Greenlee: cracked down on, you know … There was this reputation that was going around
34:54
Rob Greenlee: is that, oh, YouTube's cracking down on AI slop and all this kind of stuff.
34:58
Rob Greenlee: And to some degree, I'm sure they were.
35:01
Rob Greenlee: But that's a measured statement because- I ask myself, well, why would Google crack
35:07
Rob Greenlee: down on AI content when they actually are building AI content-generating platforms?
35:12
Rob Greenlee: So it seems a little contradictory that they would do that.
35:15
Rob Greenlee: So I think what they did wind up doing, I think, and you can correct
35:18
Rob Greenlee: me if I'm wrong, is they cracked down on the deceptive and the, the
35:22
Rob Greenlee: poor AI-generated content that was putting out false messages and was
35:27
Rob Greenlee: doing, you know, deceptive things or it just wasn't wasn't of quality.
35:32
Rob Greenlee: And I think that's what got pushed out, and I think what they…
35:36
Rob Greenlee: 'Cause I see a lot of A- fully AI-generated videos in YouTube
35:40
Rob Greenlee: that get hundreds of thousands of views that are active in YouTube.
35:44
Rob Greenlee: Um, actually I probably, I would guess probably 20% of the videos
35:48
Rob Greenlee: that I watch on, on YouTube are fully AI-generated videos.
35:53
Rob Greenlee: So-
35:53
Yuri Kleban: That's interesting.
35:54
Rob Greenlee: Yeah … and, and that's growing I think.
35:56
Rob Greenlee: It really gets back to the quality of the production, and it gets
35:58
Rob Greenlee: back to, well, what's the value?
36:00
Rob Greenlee: What's the topic?
36:01
Rob Greenlee: What's the, you know…
36:02
Rob Greenlee: And it's probably topics and a production that a human just couldn't afford or
36:08
Rob Greenlee: wouldn't have the time to actually do in a, um, traditional method.
36:13
Yuri Kleban: Yeah, no.
36:14
Yuri Kleban: And, and again, to your earlier point, while I don't have, like,
36:17
Yuri Kleban: direct line of sight of the, the policies, when I think…
36:21
Yuri Kleban: If you think of YouTube, right, you don't wanna come to any- whether
36:24
Yuri Kleban: YouTube or any place and just have really bad misleading content.
36:28
Rob Greenlee: Right.
36:29
Yuri Kleban: M- maybe by the way someone would build that, you know,
36:32
Yuri Kleban: social network, like it's known for just crap and, like, go there
36:35
Yuri Kleban: to, to do conspiracy theories.
36:36
Rob Greenlee: Yeah, and it's not even j- just AI content that these
36:39
Rob Greenlee: platforms have been concerned about.
36:41
Yuri Kleban: Correct.
36:41
Yuri Kleban: It's- It's the human ones too, right?
36:43
Rob Greenlee: Yeah, exactly.
36:43
Rob Greenlee: I mean, I used to run the Zune podcasting platform at Microsoft
36:48
Rob Greenlee: for many years, and one of my…
36:49
Rob Greenlee: One part of my job was making sure that the, the crap was not
36:53
Rob Greenlee: in the in the catalog, right?
36:55
Rob Greenlee: Because I had to answer to the attorneys or whatever if there was
36:59
Rob Greenlee: porn in there, if there was, you know- That's right … any kind of content
37:03
Rob Greenlee: that violated the terms of service of Microsoft it had to be dispensed with.
37:08
Rob Greenlee: And so that's, that's how I saw what, what Google was doing I, I think, and
37:12
Rob Greenlee: it just got spun out of, in a direction that, you know, that catered to the
37:18
Rob Greenlee: narrative of the media that likes to paint things in a negative light.
37:22
Yuri Kleban: Exa- exactly.
37:23
Yuri Kleban: And, and going back to, again, to, to your original questions, can
37:26
Yuri Kleban: creators still build trust in the era?
37:28
Yuri Kleban: Uh, like I-
37:29
Rob Greenlee: Yeah
37:29
Rob Greenlee: … Yuri Kleban: I really think that we are living in this, like, golden age.
37:34
Rob Greenlee: And I know, again, people are gonna disagree, but- Think about
37:36
Rob Greenlee: this, like I can, on Sunday, talk to my twin daughters who are six.
37:41
Rob Greenlee: Yeah.
37:41
Rob Greenlee: They can tell me, "Daddy, I would like to…
37:45
Rob Greenlee: I wish there was a game that had…"
37:46
Rob Greenlee: You know, they each like, uh, one of them likes, what is it?
37:49
Rob Greenlee: Uh, a unicorn and one a flamingo.
37:51
Rob Greenlee: And they're like, "I wish there was a game where it was a combined creature
37:54
Rob Greenlee: and you're just jumping over things."
37:56
Rob Greenlee: Right.
37:56
Rob Greenlee: Right?
37:57
Rob Greenlee: And there is no game.
37:58
Rob Greenlee: I, I search.
37:59
Rob Greenlee: We didn't need to though search, because then we went to our favorite
38:01
Rob Greenlee: LLMs, and we built it after like, we went back and forth for an hour.
38:05
Rob Greenlee: Mm-hmm.
38:05
Yuri Kleban: And it thought for four to five hours.
38:07
Yuri Kleban: We came back after outside time.
38:09
Yuri Kleban: We had a video game, Rob, ready.
38:11
Yuri Kleban: And my kids could be like- Right
38:12
Yuri Kleban: "Oh, actually I want this world and that world."
38:14
Yuri Kleban: And that again is like the, and the creator world, like
38:17
Yuri Kleban: I'm not a video game creator.
38:18
Yuri Kleban: I dreamed of being one.
38:20
Rob Greenlee: Yeah, that's what
38:20
Yuri Kleban: I say.
38:21
Yuri Kleban: I'm not that smart, right?
38:21
Yuri Kleban: But
38:21
Rob Greenlee: you can be one now.
38:22
Rob Greenlee: All you gotta do is tell a certain AI to build it for you,
38:26
Rob Greenlee: and it'll build it for you.
38:27
Yuri Kleban: Exactly.
38:28
Yuri Kleban: Exactly.
38:28
Yuri Kleban: And, and the co- I was like searching like the cost to put on Steam and all that.
38:32
Yuri Kleban: It's not that huge.
38:33
Yuri Kleban: I thought like you have- No … to be the successful game company
38:36
Yuri Kleban: and amazing- Yeah … storyteller.
38:38
Yuri Kleban: But my kids were addicted to it.
38:39
Yuri Kleban: I, I, I, you know, I, I said, "No more."
38:42
Yuri Kleban: And it was one of those like, you know, you press a button and you jump,
38:44
Yuri Kleban: and you can compete and jump o- Yeah
38:45
Yuri Kleban: with your, with your, the sisters were fighting, you know, or competing.
38:48
Yuri Kleban: And to me it just, again, my mind was like, oh my gosh,
38:52
Yuri Kleban: like tr- like they trusted.
38:54
Yuri Kleban: They know it's AI.
38:55
Rob Greenlee: Yeah.
38:55
Yuri Kleban: But it's what they wanted to see and it kinda, it scratched their itch.
38:59
Yuri Kleban: They make it customizable.
39:00
Yuri Kleban: We could talk about- Yep
39:01
Yuri Kleban: some of the ideas I've had on, on how do you make this content more customizable.
39:05
Yuri Kleban: But it's like at people's fingertips.
39:07
Yuri Kleban: They do- It- it's by the way why I think Netflix was so successful and all
39:10
Yuri Kleban: these, you know, streaming companies are so successful is you get it now.
39:15
Yuri Kleban: Remember back in the day when you had three channels and you have to
39:18
Yuri Kleban: wait once every week for a show?
39:19
Yuri Kleban: And I know some companies still do this, but- Yeah … I mean, you
39:23
Yuri Kleban: could drop something on Netflix like, you know, Stranger Things,
39:26
Yuri Kleban: and everyone will stop their whole life and just watch and consume.
39:30
Rob Greenlee: Right.
39:30
Rob Greenlee: It was like on- The NBC network it was Must See Thursdays, right?
39:35
Rob Greenlee: Remember?
39:36
Rob Greenlee: Yes.
39:36
Rob Greenlee: There was like four different TV shows that were back to
39:39
Rob Greenlee: back during that- That's right
39:41
Rob Greenlee: that day, right.
39:42
Rob Greenlee: You had to see it.
39:43
Yuri Kleban: That's right.
39:43
Yuri Kleban: But- But now again, like you can earn trust from people.
39:46
Yuri Kleban: Yeah.
39:46
Yuri Kleban: It's you know, if, if I'm a startup and I'm thinking of my idea, it
39:50
Yuri Kleban: should be an idea that's answering someone's problem, solving a problem
39:54
Yuri Kleban: for them that they either have to pay money or whatever it is.
39:57
Yuri Kleban: I think of content as being the same way.
39:59
Yuri Kleban: People like to consume content because they wanna learn something.
40:02
Yuri Kleban: Like you and I are very similar.
40:04
Yuri Kleban: Yeah.
40:04
Yuri Kleban: Like I love podcasts because I learn a lot.
40:06
Yuri Kleban: Other people are like, "I had a bad day.
40:08
Yuri Kleban: I don't wanna think about the world.
40:10
Yuri Kleban: I don't care about logic.
40:11
Yuri Kleban: I wanna put something that it's mind-numbing," or
40:14
Yuri Kleban: whatever you wanna call it.
40:15
Yuri Kleban: Yeah, right.
40:15
Yuri Kleban: And, and who are we again to judge?
40:16
Yuri Kleban: Why are we as humans trying to prevent someone to enjoy themselves that way?
40:20
Yuri Kleban: There's other people like, uh, and that's kind of the ideas I, I've been
40:24
Yuri Kleban: speaking to other folks, like I love, again, the Stranger Things, right?
40:28
Yuri Kleban: And it ended, and I personally, I'm torn about the last episode of the last season.
40:33
Yuri Kleban: Like, I wish it ended a different way, or I wish there was a continuation.
40:36
Yuri Kleban: Like I'm still alive.
40:37
Yuri Kleban: Yeah.
40:37
Yuri Kleban: I'm not dead.
40:37
Yuri Kleban: Like, I wanna see more.
40:39
Rob Greenlee: Right.
40:39
Yuri Kleban: Why isn't there a way for the fans similar to, let's say if you
40:42
Yuri Kleban: and I read Harry Potter, we love it, now you can just write a book, right?
40:46
Yuri Kleban: The fan fiction.
40:47
Yuri Kleban: Mm-hmm.
40:48
Yuri Kleban: And then publish and people can add ideas and build on top of it.
40:50
Rob Greenlee: Oh, yeah.
40:51
Yuri Kleban: Why isn't that for content, video, audio content, right?
40:54
Yuri Kleban: Where you love somebody or something-
40:57
Rob Greenlee: Yeah
40:57
Rob Greenlee: … Yuri Kleban: and with their permission, and we could talk about
40:59
Rob Greenlee: how they can continuously earn money, you can build on top of it.
41:03
Rob Greenlee: It's always says like, "This is not the real person."
41:05
Rob Greenlee: There's guardrails.
41:06
Rob Greenlee: Yeah.
41:06
Rob Greenlee: Like every actor can say, "Hey, I'm never I never wanna- Yeah … support the war
41:10
Rob Greenlee: in Iran, so never put those words in my mouth," or whatever it is, right?
41:12
Rob Greenlee: Like you, you could build a lot of these guardrails, but still allow
41:16
Rob Greenlee: other humans, your fans, to interact with you in such different ways.
41:20
Rob Greenlee: Yeah, I agree.
41:21
Yuri Kleban: I think that's gonna be the future, Rob, where why do we need to
41:24
Yuri Kleban: wait for the next season of something?
41:26
Yuri Kleban: I wanna create my own version.
41:27
Yuri Kleban: Yeah.
41:27
Yuri Kleban: And maybe it's just for me, by the way.
41:28
Yuri Kleban: I've seen some people, it was like the early days of AI, someone
41:32
Yuri Kleban: just did an AI that would just create those Seinfeld episodes.
41:35
Yuri Kleban: They're all so dumb, they're so cheesy.
41:37
Yuri Kleban: Yeah.
41:37
Yuri Kleban: But again, I watched 30 minutes of them, I'm not gonna lie.
41:40
Yuri Kleban: Like, some of it was like f- actually fun, like, oh, this is clever.
41:42
Yuri Kleban: Yeah.
41:43
Yuri Kleban: And I, I relived those days.
41:44
Yuri Kleban: I love that show, and it ended obviously, and they're not gonna do a reunion.
41:47
Yuri Kleban: And again, if we do it in a way that it's not harming anyone, it's not
41:51
Yuri Kleban: putting words to the actors they don't agree with it's not making money
41:54
Yuri Kleban: for someone who shouldn't, like you could sh- spread the wealth- Yeah.
41:57
Yuri Kleban: There's- … and all that.
41:58
Yuri Kleban: Yeah.
41:58
Yuri Kleban: Why shouldn't we give more of these tools and empower the fans to be creators?
42:05
Yuri Kleban: Because again, the last thing I'll end with is, and we talked
42:07
Yuri Kleban: about this, is the number of watchers to creators is incredible.
42:12
Yuri Kleban: I forgot what it is, but it's like incredible.
42:14
Yuri Kleban: Why aren't we empowering more people to create?
42:17
Yuri Kleban: Is my thinking.
42:18
Yuri Kleban: Just like right now you can go on Lovable- Yeah … or Claude
42:21
Yuri Kleban: or Gemini and build an app Where is that for the content creators?
42:26
Yuri Kleban: Does that make sense?
42:27
Rob Greenlee: Yeah, it does.
42:28
Rob Greenlee: I mean, I agree 100%, and I've, I've talked to startups in Silicon
42:34
Rob Greenlee: Valley that are really focused on trying to create that interactive AI
42:39
Rob Greenlee: layer that will basically enable the audience to contribute their own AI
42:46
Rob Greenlee: to the conversation with other AIs.
42:49
Rob Greenlee: Ask questions of the other AIs that are maybe talking about sports or whatever.
42:53
Rob Greenlee: And create a interactive experience between the audience and the AIs where
43:00
Rob Greenlee: it's almost like they're all sitting around the same table talking about the
43:03
Rob Greenlee: Seattle Seahawks or something like that.
43:05
Rob Greenlee: Yes.
43:05
Yuri Kleban: Let's
43:05
Rob Greenlee: go.
43:05
Rob Greenlee: And so the audience participates and also, and I'm seeing this in
43:09
Rob Greenlee: my own work with AI where you're only limited by your imagination.
43:14
Rob Greenlee: You can pretty much create anything you want now.
43:17
Rob Greenlee: Um, I mean, it, it can be a little expensive and it can currently
43:21
Rob Greenlee: still be a little bit technically challenging to, to pull all the pieces
43:25
Rob Greenlee: together, but I don't think it's gonna be like that for much longer.
43:28
Rob Greenlee: Um, where you just tell it what you want, and it will…
43:32
Rob Greenlee: I mean, I'm e- even hearing it in the podcasting in- industry where people,
43:37
Rob Greenlee: you know, the, the Adam Currys of the world, the ones that invented
43:40
Rob Greenlee: podcasting, is talking about how he's using agents now to spin up podcast
43:45
Rob Greenlee: listening apps, personalized ones.
43:47
Rob Greenlee: He's not even needing to use Apple Podcasts or Spotify anymore.
43:52
Rob Greenlee: He can, as long as he has access to RSS, he can spin up his own consumption
43:56
Rob Greenlee: experience and have a, you know…
43:59
Rob Greenlee: And so that's why it's very important that in RSS we able, we're able to extend
44:03
Rob Greenlee: its capabilities to be able to, you know, have a MCP or something like that
44:09
Rob Greenlee: connects to the platforms and offers other types of interactive opportunities
44:13
Rob Greenlee: or monetization and all sorts of stuff.
44:15
Rob Greenlee: We may get to a point where we don't even need like a Spotify or something like
44:20
Rob Greenlee: that to get access to content, even though they're gonna be probably part of the
44:24
Rob Greenlee: ecosystem- Mm-hmm … that's out there.
44:25
Rob Greenlee: But you're gonna have the option to spin up your own app or your, like, like
44:30
Rob Greenlee: you just said, spin up your own game or create your own experience and then
44:35
Rob Greenlee: offer that to the world if you want to.
44:37
Rob Greenlee: And it's gonna create a very different dynamic in the world, isn't it?
44:40
Yuri Kleban: Yeah.
44:40
Yuri Kleban: And again, I, I wanna go back to the…
44:43
Yuri Kleban: You made a good point, like it's still, there's still technical
44:46
Yuri Kleban: limitation for content creation- Mm-hmm … but it's getting easier.
44:49
Yuri Kleban: And this again, this was just a few weeks ago- Yeah … I was
44:53
Yuri Kleban: just reading where somebody said, "Hey, you know, you should…
44:54
Yuri Kleban: You can now go on Claude, Gemini and just say, 'Create a, like a, a walkthrough
44:59
Yuri Kleban: video of your app or a commercial.'"
45:02
Yuri Kleban: And again, if you try this, like a few months ago it was very like spotty and
45:05
Yuri Kleban: you had to like piece things together.
45:07
Rob Greenlee: Yeah.
45:08
Yuri Kleban: Rob, my friend, if you try now in your audience, like go try this.
45:10
Yuri Kleban: If you have an app or a c- or a show or any content, let's say
45:14
Yuri Kleban: y- you have your own podcast.
45:16
Yuri Kleban: Go to these LLMs and say, "Hey, create like a commercial.
45:19
Yuri Kleban: Here's my videos."
45:20
Yuri Kleban: I feel like it's doing a really cool j- You could always do it like, "And
45:24
Yuri Kleban: it looks like this," or in this kind of style Yeah It is crazy, eerie, amazing how
45:30
Yuri Kleban: much it has gotten be- like how better, uh, yeah- Oh, it's remarkable … it
45:33
Yuri Kleban: has gotten so good that I'm like, oh my gosh, I used to, you know, have to
45:37
Yuri Kleban: go on Adobe, on After Effects, and do all these things, and now I can kind of
45:42
Yuri Kleban: cheat with some of the smaller things.
45:44
Yuri Kleban: Or if I wanna do like 20 ideas and then, you know, hone in on
45:47
Yuri Kleban: one and spend the rest of my time.
45:49
Yuri Kleban: Before, again, it's like, oh my gosh, I have to do 20 by hand, and
45:53
Yuri Kleban: it's like hours, weeks, months.
45:55
Yuri Kleban: I'm telling you, some of these, like I, I, I have like a, a side app that I'm
45:59
Yuri Kleban: helping SMBs, and people are like saying, "Oh, I, I want these walkthroughs."
46:02
Yuri Kleban: And I would literally do, open up, you know, Loom or whatever, like, and do these
46:05
Yuri Kleban: walkthroughs, and I'm like, oh my gosh, Rob, like this is so long to cut, paste,
46:09
Yuri Kleban: put music, cut out when my uh, uh- We're
46:11
Rob Greenlee: getting impatient, aren't we?
46:12
Yuri Kleban: And I literally said, "Hey, use my voice.
46:14
Yuri Kleban: I'm allowing you.
46:15
Yuri Kleban: Go into my app-" Yeah …"create
46:17
Yuri Kleban: these videos for some of these."
46:18
Yuri Kleban: And then it was, like, done in, like, a few minutes.
46:21
Yuri Kleban: And, and my mind was like, oh my gosh, if it could do it for
46:23
Yuri Kleban: this, can you do a commercial?
46:25
Yuri Kleban: Why should people use?
46:26
Yuri Kleban: What's a good outre- Like, the content creation is great.
46:29
Yuri Kleban: And again, I'm a human in the loop.
46:31
Yuri Kleban: I do believe…
46:32
Yuri Kleban: i'm not the big believer at this point at least that, you know, you go to content,
46:36
Yuri Kleban: whether it's written, video, audio.
46:38
Yuri Kleban: You say something, it does first version, you send it off.
46:42
Yuri Kleban: That's rarely, you know, the one shot, even in apps.
46:44
Yuri Kleban: Like I, I don't trust that.
46:46
Yuri Kleban: But if you have a human in loop that has creativity and has some ideas
46:49
Yuri Kleban: and can research and bring some ideas and say, "Hey, what about this?
46:52
Yuri Kleban: What about that?"
46:53
Yuri Kleban: And earlier just to the point, I don't know if you felt like a lot of these
46:56
Yuri Kleban: AI, the LLMs, they're people pleasers.
46:59
Yuri Kleban: They'd be like, "Yes, I will do this for you."
47:02
Yuri Kleban: E- even though if it's wrong, right?
47:04
Yuri Kleban: We're not in a world where-
47:04
Yuri Kleban: Well,
47:04
Rob Greenlee: they
47:04
Yuri Kleban: want you
47:04
Rob Greenlee: to keep, uh, s- subscribing, right?
47:07
Rob Greenlee: Th- that's right To keep as being a user.
47:08
Rob Greenlee: Yeah.
47:08
Rob Greenlee: So, you know, they do have an interest in-
47:11
Yuri Kleban: It is like the slot machine- Yeah … where you put the money and
47:13
Yuri Kleban: like, I don't know what I'll get.
47:14
Yuri Kleban: They want you to get…
47:15
Yuri Kleban: I get that.
47:15
Yuri Kleban: We, again- … that's another subject.
47:17
Yuri Kleban: But my point is if you get arou- Yeah … like, the creation it's really…
47:22
Yuri Kleban: I think what, what is missing, by the way, for…
47:24
Yuri Kleban: That was some of the questions I was thinking would be interesting.
47:27
Yuri Kleban: Like, it, right now at least you still have to talk to the LLM- Mm-hmm
47:32
Yuri Kleban: written, audio, video's coming soon with, with Hagen and all those.
47:36
Yuri Kleban: And- But soon, right, uh, and sorry, and so that's right now.
47:40
Yuri Kleban: You, the only thing that's stopping is can you talk to it and give your ideas?
47:45
Yuri Kleban: And, and I think once we get over that hump, again, you'll get a lot of
47:49
Yuri Kleban: unique perspective of content, and I do believe that if we go to a world where
47:56
Yuri Kleban: I believe that AI can not get you fired, but you can work with it and you don't
48:00
Yuri Kleban: have to work those 80 hours, can we…
48:01
Yuri Kleban: Like, how crazy would it be if we are allowed to have a four-day week?
48:06
Yuri Kleban: Like, you know, like as humanity.
48:08
Yuri Kleban: I, I'm the, you know, not a big Star, like not a Trekkie or whatever, but I
48:11
Yuri Kleban: watch Star Trek and I love that world of like- Yeah … we're exploring the world
48:15
Yuri Kleban: and, and what Elon said in, in the whole space, like that, that's a cool thing
48:18
Yuri Kleban: that as humans we should spend time on.
48:21
Yuri Kleban: And we should enjoy content and things like that and entertainment, right?
48:25
Yuri Kleban: Not just being in the rat race all the time.
48:26
Yuri Kleban: I do believe once that is much better and we have the right guardrails and
48:31
Yuri Kleban: again we try to limit all the dangers that we're, everyone's talking about.
48:35
Rob Greenlee: Yeah.
48:36
Yuri Kleban: I do think, again, the trust is gonna just slowly,
48:39
Yuri Kleban: if not already, trickle in.
48:40
Rob Greenlee: Mm-hmm.
48:41
Yuri Kleban: Yeah.
48:41
Yuri Kleban: And, and I'll end, I'll end with this, like- I know we're talking about
48:44
Yuri Kleban: creators building trust in the AI era, but I've talked to right now in, in
48:47
Yuri Kleban: just in the last, you know, month and a half to, like, 300 people about AI,
48:52
Yuri Kleban: and I, one of my favorite question to ask is, like, h- how much do you how
48:55
Yuri Kleban: much information do you give your AI?
48:58
Yuri Kleban: And 'cause I personally, like, I'm very wa- worried, you know, I give
49:02
Yuri Kleban: enough information, but a lot of these folks are like, "You know what?
49:04
Yuri Kleban: They…
49:05
Yuri Kleban: It has access to my bank account, not to do transaction, but I just want
49:08
Yuri Kleban: it to have more context about me."
49:10
Yuri Kleban: And so I think where this is going is do, do you remember back in the day, I mean,
49:15
Yuri Kleban: you still have it, you know, you go on a website and you have the little sign that
49:18
Yuri Kleban: says, "Hey, Rob, do you wanna click here?
49:20
Yuri Kleban: Do you trust with your life?"
49:21
Yuri Kleban: And we used to read those, now we just do, "Yes, whatever."
49:25
Yuri Kleban: I think the same thing is gonna happen in, in the creator world.
49:28
Yuri Kleban: Like, pe- people will use AI and will disclose it, but it'll be
49:32
Yuri Kleban: kind of like, I don't really care.
49:33
Yuri Kleban: I just wanna see what the content is, if it's interesting, unique," you know.
49:37
Yuri Kleban: Everything as you were talking, storytelling is there, it's authentic.
49:41
Yuri Kleban: It, it has a different spin.
49:43
Yuri Kleban: I think that's still gonna continue building trust between
49:46
Yuri Kleban: the creator and the audience.
49:47
Yuri Kleban: I think that's, uh, to me, as long as there's a human in the loop,
49:50
Yuri Kleban: I think that's the best case.
49:52
Yuri Kleban: Uh, I wanna hear from you though what you think.
49:55
Yuri Kleban: You know, I did meet some folks who want agents to build, you know,
49:59
Yuri Kleban: these podcasts, and it's just, like, agents creating content and content.
50:02
Yuri Kleban: And I'm wa- wondering what, what your thoughts on this, right?
50:05
Yuri Kleban: If it…
50:05
Yuri Kleban: There, there is no more human in the loop.
50:07
Yuri Kleban: It's the human started, and then they walk away and let it do its own thing.
50:11
Yuri Kleban: What, what do you think about that world?
50:12
Rob Greenlee: Yeah, I think it's more interesting when a human is in the loop.
50:15
Rob Greenlee: I think it's a, it's a collaboration that actually has it at the highest value.
50:21
Rob Greenlee: ' Cause I don't know what, what it is, but it- and I've been thinking a lot
50:24
Rob Greenlee: about this lately is, is what is that value layer that a human brings to
50:30
Rob Greenlee: an AI conversation and an AI build?
50:34
Rob Greenlee: And that's human intuition in a world that you're building something that
50:40
Rob Greenlee: your primary audience is gonna be human, mostly at this point, though-
50:44
Yuri Kleban: That's right
50:45
Yuri Kleban: … Rob Greenlee: part of the, the elements that I'm working on with the Trust
50:48
Yuri Kleban: Factor Lab will be, well, sure, you can build elements that are attractive
50:53
Yuri Kleban: and build trust with humans, but you need to start thinking about, you
50:57
Yuri Kleban: know, what elements you have to build to be able to build trust with AI
51:01
Yuri Kleban: agents that are representing humans to, you know, make purchase decisions
51:06
Yuri Kleban: or subscription decisions or whatever.
51:08
Yuri Kleban: What signs or, or validations or, um, that the AI agent's gonna go through to
51:16
Yuri Kleban: decide, you know, of the five options, which one am I gonna choose, right?
51:21
Yuri Kleban: That's right.
51:21
Yuri Kleban: Um, so you do have that element, too where the, the AI is gonna continue
51:27
Yuri Kleban: to push us to actually do more.
51:31
Yuri Kleban: That's what my actual experience is.
51:33
Yuri Kleban: I'm building four different website platforms right now.
51:36
Yuri Kleban: Yes.
51:36
Rob Greenlee: And it's c- And I'm…
51:38
Rob Greenlee: Even with this show it's increasingly taking on more and more of the
51:42
Rob Greenlee: post-production the website publishing side of, you know, it's like I used to
51:47
Rob Greenlee: go in and hand-edit everything in the WordPress instance that is used for
51:53
Rob Greenlee: this website, but increasingly the AI can do it much more rapidly and can
51:57
Rob Greenlee: do it much more efficiently and create better kind of experiences on the
52:02
Rob Greenlee: website than I would probably be able to code in the same period of time.
52:06
Rob Greenlee: So, you know, there's, there's value here, but I do my own experiences
52:12
Rob Greenlee: is that it makes me more busy.
52:13
Rob Greenlee: And I don't know if that's a vector, and tell me what you think about this,
52:16
Rob Greenlee: is that, I mean, eventually are we as humans going to gate our expectations
52:22
Rob Greenlee: or our desires to take on more, right?
52:26
Rob Greenlee: And to do more?
52:27
Rob Greenlee: 'Cause I keep hearing from folks that are doing a lot with AI right now
52:32
Rob Greenlee: that are engineers and ones that are really in the, the weeds of using AI,
52:38
Rob Greenlee: and what they're finding is that they burn out or are completely exhausted
52:41
Rob Greenlee: because they're doing so much more.
52:44
Rob Greenlee: But that also requires them to supervise so much more, that it's
52:49
Rob Greenlee: actually making a- giving us more work because we're doing more.
52:53
Yuri Kleban: L- l- yeah, I, it's a great point.
52:55
Yuri Kleban: L- let me…
52:56
Yuri Kleban: Th- this is my perspective.
52:57
Yuri Kleban: I remember when we came to the States from abroad, my dad never
53:02
Yuri Kleban: had ketchup, believe it or not, Rob.
53:04
Yuri Kleban: Okay.
53:05
Yuri Kleban: That was a big thing- yeah … having ketchup.
53:07
Yuri Kleban: If you're born into the USSR, you didn't have a lot of this,
53:10
Yuri Kleban: the communist- Ah … place.
53:11
Yuri Kleban: You didn't have ketchup.
53:13
Yuri Kleban: And he, as, as my mom explained to me, like, put ketchup on everything
53:18
Yuri Kleban: 'cause it was like- … the hot, the, the coolest thing.
53:19
Yuri Kleban: Why not?
53:20
Yuri Kleban: Right.
53:21
Yuri Kleban: Like, I've never had it so delicious.
53:22
Yuri Kleban: It has s- sugar, salt, like everything.
53:25
Yuri Kleban: It's, it's tomatoes, his favorite, you know, vegetable at the time.
53:28
Yuri Kleban: And my point is, is, you know, he put it so much that after, I don't
53:31
Yuri Kleban: know if it was a year, two, or three, but eventually he stopped.
53:34
Yuri Kleban: And to this day, like if let's say I'm eating fries and I'm
53:37
Yuri Kleban: like, "Do you want ketchup?"
53:37
Yuri Kleban: He's like, "Ah."
53:38
Yuri Kleban: I'm done for life, right?
53:40
Yuri Kleban: And why I'm telling you this story is I think that's what's happening right now.
53:43
Yuri Kleban: We all got this addictive power.
53:45
Yuri Kleban: We all got addicted to these LLMs.
53:47
Yuri Kleban: And to your point, I'm building so many things at work, outside of
53:51
Yuri Kleban: work, helping more folks, talking to more people, because it's enabling.
53:55
Yuri Kleban: Mm-hmm.
53:55
Yuri Kleban: I think there's gonna be a point where you're just like, "You know,
53:59
Yuri Kleban: I think I've, I've explored enough."
54:00
Yuri Kleban: Right.
54:01
Yuri Kleban: I- I think
54:01
Rob Greenlee: I've reached my limit You're just saturated.
54:02
Rob Greenlee: I know I…
54:03
Rob Greenlee: We actually met through a, a platform called Boardy.
54:06
Rob Greenlee: And so that platform just, like, a week ago or so was…
54:11
Rob Greenlee: Which I've been working with Boardy for over a year now.
54:13
Rob Greenlee: And it's gotten to a point with him was that he'll completely
54:16
Rob Greenlee: fill up my calendar, um, every day with, with people to talk to.
54:21
Rob Greenlee: While that's wonderful I can't get anything else done.
54:24
Rob Greenlee: So- That's
54:25
Yuri Kleban: right
54:25
Yuri Kleban: … Rob Greenlee: I had to tell him to back off a little bit.
54:28
Yuri Kleban: That was
54:28
Yuri Kleban: your ketchup.
54:29
Yuri Kleban: That was your ketchup, Rob.
54:30
Rob Greenlee: Right, right.
54:30
Rob Greenlee: Too much ketchup.
54:30
Rob Greenlee: It's like I wanna build some stuff, right?
54:34
Rob Greenlee: I don't wanna just do calls all day.
54:36
Rob Greenlee: Which is, there's good sides to that.
54:38
Rob Greenlee: That's how I met you and, and there's terrific you know,
54:42
Rob Greenlee: things that come from that.
54:43
Rob Greenlee: But it c- you've gotta create some balance, right?
54:46
Rob Greenlee: And I think that's what you were talking about with the ketchup, is that people get
54:50
Rob Greenlee: a little bit too involved in these things, and they stretch themselves too far, and
54:55
Rob Greenlee: then there's a blow back at some point.
54:57
Rob Greenlee: Yeah.
54:57
Yuri Kleban: I- I'm hoping that it's not like, you know, the whole
55:00
Yuri Kleban: cigarettes thing where it's so addictive that it's really negative.
55:03
Rob Greenlee: Right, and it kills you.
55:04
Yuri Kleban: It kills you, right?
55:05
Yuri Kleban: Be- because I'm sure you've, you've heard this, like, children or us using,
55:09
Yuri Kleban: you know, the LLMs instead of thinking.
55:11
Yuri Kleban: There's all these studies coming out.
55:13
Yuri Kleban: Like, that definitely is a world I don't wanna get to.
55:16
Yuri Kleban: And then what you and I talked about, all the innovation you could do.
55:18
Yuri Kleban: Yeah.
55:18
Yuri Kleban: Again, I think we're just in the…
55:20
Yuri Kleban: We're in it right now, so we're trying to figure it out and if it's not us, the
55:24
Yuri Kleban: next generation is hopefully gonna be more in the middle and they're like, "Hey, old
55:27
Yuri Kleban: timers, do this, but don't do too much.
55:30
Yuri Kleban: Be in the middle."
55:30
Yuri Kleban: Like, there's a how many hours you could use an LLM- Yeah … per day
55:34
Yuri Kleban: versus, you know, churning on this 24/7.
55:36
Rob Greenlee: Yeah, and I do wonder how many people out there, um, even
55:40
Rob Greenlee: that are watching this show tonight really even think about the things
55:43
Rob Greenlee: that we're talking about right now.
55:45
Rob Greenlee: It's…
55:45
Rob Greenlee: You know, I tend to, to think and live a little bit in the future
55:49
Rob Greenlee: because I, I look at things through that lens, and I always have.
55:53
Rob Greenlee: I mean, that's what my radio show did when I was back in the early years
55:57
Rob Greenlee: of the internet, was that's what the show was all about, was helping
56:00
Rob Greenlee: people understand the internet.
56:01
Rob Greenlee: And so that's what I'm doing now to some degree.
56:05
Rob Greenlee: But there's so many other people out there that are so much more fully,
56:09
Rob Greenlee: you know, in the weeds of what's happening with the technology, and
56:14
Rob Greenlee: I just love talking to people that are in the weeds of what's happening
56:17
Rob Greenlee: with this stuff and where it's going.
56:20
Rob Greenlee: But I also- I have my own intuition based on my, my experience and my history too,
56:27
Rob Greenlee: and I, I can see trends that are moving and developing, and I'm sure you can too.
56:32
Rob Greenlee: And then I, I put my lens of media on that, like w- with podcasting or
56:37
Rob Greenlee: whatever, and I can see some serious things coming in the future that
56:42
Rob Greenlee: are-- that will completely disrupt our perception of what reality is right now
56:48
Rob Greenlee: for pretty much every aspect of our lives.
56:50
Rob Greenlee: But the core of it is what our interests are, what we get excited
56:55
Rob Greenlee: about, what our passions are.
56:57
Rob Greenlee: That's the part that's not gonna go away
56:59
Yuri Kleban: Yeah, no, I'm, I'm with you.
57:01
Yuri Kleban: Everything that makes us human will remain.
57:04
Yuri Kleban: I think, I still think as much as I probably, you know, I'm drinking the
57:08
Yuri Kleban: Kool-Aid of AI being, you know, at Google, seeing all this amazing innovation,
57:13
Yuri Kleban: stay tuned for all the cool things.
57:15
Yuri Kleban: I still don't know if, like, it- I, I agree that it's gonna revolutionize a lot
57:20
Yuri Kleban: of the things, but, like, again, going back to my father, he's a plumber, right?
57:25
Yuri Kleban: And sure, and one day there'll be robots are doing his job, but he's like-
57:29
Yuri Kleban: Yeah … "Until then, people are gonna call me because their bathroom is broken."
57:32
Yuri Kleban: "They need a new water heater, Uri, Uri."
57:34
Yuri Kleban: Right.
57:34
Yuri Kleban: Like, I, I can't sit at home and have an LLM chat with me and do that.
57:39
Yuri Kleban: Like, they could…
57:40
Yuri Kleban: He literally says, "Go.
57:41
Yuri Kleban: You can go to the LLM.
57:42
Yuri Kleban: It'll tell you what it'll do."
57:43
Yuri Kleban: Yeah.
57:43
Yuri Kleban: But you need a human being to do these things for you.
57:46
Yuri Kleban: So I think-
57:46
Rob Greenlee: Or have the tools to accomplish the task
57:49
Yuri Kleban: too.
57:49
Yuri Kleban: Exactly.
57:49
Yuri Kleban: Right.
57:50
Yuri Kleban: And, and my point is, like, I do…
57:51
Yuri Kleban: Like, I see in some industries, like, it's revolu- it's going so
57:54
Yuri Kleban: fast, and in some it's, like, bumps or, like, it- it's gonna, it's
57:59
Yuri Kleban: gonna hit a, a, a block, right?
58:01
Yuri Kleban: Until, like, I, I got the chance to see some of the latest
58:04
Yuri Kleban: robots here in Silicon Valley.
58:05
Yuri Kleban: Without naming the companies and the startups, they're amazing.
58:08
Yuri Kleban: You know, you're like, "Wow."
58:10
Yuri Kleban: Yeah.
58:10
Yuri Kleban: And then you're like, "Well, a bunch of them are still humans operating them."
58:14
Yuri Kleban: They can hold a can, but then after five minutes it drops.
58:17
Yuri Kleban: Like- … there's all these bugs that you're like, "Okay," like-
58:20
Rob Greenlee: But that's tech though.
58:21
Rob Greenlee: It
58:21
Yuri Kleban: doesn't always work.
58:22
Yuri Kleban: Ex- ex- exactly.
58:22
Yuri Kleban: Right.
58:22
Yuri Kleban: But, but my point is, like, the Terminator is not here, if, if your audience is
58:25
Yuri Kleban: wondering if that was the question.
58:26
Yuri Kleban: I know Elon, I heard, gets asked, like, "Are there aliens?"
58:29
Yuri Kleban: Because he knows about space, and he's like, "There's no aliens."
58:31
Yuri Kleban: Yeah.
58:31
Yuri Kleban: From my point of view, I've not seen any Terminators, nothing close.
58:35
Yuri Kleban: There's definitely danger in all that warfare that is scary, but
58:38
Yuri Kleban: there's nothing that's, like, self, like AGI, that's here to, like, do
58:43
Yuri Kleban: things without a human in the loop.
58:44
Yuri Kleban: And as my wife like to say, like, "If I plug this, like, internet
58:47
Yuri Kleban: cord here, your whole, like, little agent world dies, Uri."
58:51
Yuri Kleban: So, like, that also is, like, a whole thing.
58:53
Yuri Kleban: There's, you know, it's, yeah, even if you're in the cloud-
58:56
Yuri Kleban: Still saying just- … right?
58:56
Yuri Kleban: There, there's still- Just pull the plug,
58:57
Rob Greenlee: right?
58:58
Yuri Kleban: Exactly.
58:58
Yuri Kleban: There's still lots of plugs.
58:59
Yuri Kleban: It's a little harder.
59:00
Yuri Kleban: I know people would argue against me.
59:01
Yuri Kleban: But my, my point is, I, ag- again, going back, is like I think we're gonna be in
59:07
Yuri Kleban: this, the age of creativity, or whatever is the better English term for it.
59:11
Yuri Kleban: Like, it's coming very soon.
59:13
Yuri Kleban: I do think, just hitting one last point on, as the audience is
59:16
Yuri Kleban: wondering about trust in the AI era- What's the best way to put it?
59:20
Yuri Kleban: I remember, you know, making … I, I had a, a long time ago, and hopefully
59:23
Yuri Kleban: no one can find this a YouTube show.
59:25
Yuri Kleban: That's how it, uh, it helped pay for my college degree of,
59:28
Yuri Kleban: uh … It's like the man on the street asking about relationship.
59:31
Yuri Kleban: Like, "What do you think about this in a relationship?"
59:32
Yuri Kleban: Like, "Would you ever date someone who's married if you're in college?"
59:36
Yuri Kleban: You know, all these things.
59:36
Yuri Kleban: It was controversial.
59:37
Yuri Kleban: And my point is when I was doing the episodes, I felt like I had
59:40
Yuri Kleban: to do everything super polished.
59:43
Yuri Kleban: Like, if I show- Yeah … that I put a lot of efforts, a lot of slides, that's what,
59:47
Yuri Kleban: like, that's what people wanted to see.
59:49
Yuri Kleban: I think that world is, is no longer.
59:51
Yuri Kleban: I think polish is it's no longer, like, the evidence of effort, to your point.
59:55
Yuri Kleban: It's no longer evidence, like, the more hours you spend on making the cuts
59:59
Yuri Kleban: that more people are gonna like it.
1:00:01
Yuri Kleban: I think it's what you're doing, what it is, the story behind it, the uniqueness.
1:00:07
Yuri Kleban: You bringing, as you said, every human, just like our DNA is so different, like
1:00:11
Yuri Kleban: every human has different thoughts.
1:00:13
Yuri Kleban: That I believe.
1:00:13
Yuri Kleban: I don't believe we're in a simulation because we all have such different
1:00:16
Yuri Kleban: thoughts about the same topic even, and our own take on it in a way.
1:00:20
Yuri Kleban: Even a little bit slightly different, like a .001
1:00:23
Yuri Kleban: difference even between…
1:00:24
Yuri Kleban: I have twin girls.
1:00:25
Yuri Kleban: You- They look so similar, sometimes sound similar, but they
1:00:28
Yuri Kleban: disagree on almost everything.
1:00:30
Yuri Kleban: You could know they're two completely different human beings, right?
1:00:32
Yuri Kleban: Yeah.
1:00:32
Yuri Kleban: They
1:00:32
Rob Greenlee: think completely differently.
1:00:34
Rob Greenlee: Yeah, I've had kids too.
1:00:35
Rob Greenlee: I've had a, a son and a- Completely … daughter, and they,
1:00:38
Rob Greenlee: they are not on the same page.
1:00:40
Yuri Kleban: Exactly, and that's why, again, I think for the content creators
1:00:44
Yuri Kleban: in the audience, I think more than ever the authenticity of you as a creator,
1:00:50
Yuri Kleban: whether you're behind the camera, whether you're giving the ideas or writing the…
1:00:54
Yuri Kleban: Like, that I think to your point counts a lot more than what school
1:00:58
Yuri Kleban: you went to, what equipment you have.
1:01:00
Yuri Kleban: Could you fly in the most impressive person in the world?
1:01:04
Yuri Kleban: I'll tell you, I've seen this on YouTube and they're promoting this,
1:01:06
Yuri Kleban: is there's a lot of no-name creators, meaning they came out of nowhere-
1:01:12
Rob Greenlee: Mm-hmm
1:01:12
Yuri Kleban: that are doing amazing storytelling with AI.
1:01:15
Yuri Kleban: You know, YouTube has a lot of the AI tools, and I, I think that's fair and,
1:01:20
Yuri Kleban: and, and hopefully the other creators that are more well-established and have
1:01:23
Yuri Kleban: these big teams are celebrating like, "What a world, what a cool thing."
1:01:26
Yuri Kleban: Because again, imagine then they collaborate and do cool things with each
1:01:29
Yuri Kleban: other even and do crossover things that I'm sure you do with some of your- Yeah
1:01:33
Yuri Kleban: colleagues in the business.
1:01:33
Yuri Kleban: And to me again, what an amazing time to live that I'm hoping
1:01:38
Yuri Kleban: this actually connects us more- Yeah … than disconnects us.
1:01:41
Yuri Kleban: That, that's my end thing is like I really think that the personal touch of the
1:01:45
Yuri Kleban: human side of us as individuals- Mm-hmm … that's really what's gonna not only earn
1:01:50
Yuri Kleban: you like the highest viewership but also earn the trust of people coming to you.
1:01:54
Yuri Kleban: And, and to me with AI, even without, but even with AI, it can accelerate a
1:02:00
Yuri Kleban: lot of those things, and you shouldn't…
1:02:02
Yuri Kleban: I tell people, "Don't fear it.
1:02:03
Yuri Kleban: It's not replacing you.
1:02:05
Yuri Kleban: You and AI are gonna make such cool things."
1:02:08
Rob Greenlee: Yeah.
1:02:08
Rob Greenlee: That's how I'm increasingly feeling about it too.
1:02:11
Rob Greenlee: I'm not, But I do worry that it, it is so capable of making Independent
1:02:18
Rob Greenlee: decisions around all sorts of little things that I would never
1:02:23
Rob Greenlee: have the mental capacity or the…
1:02:26
Rob Greenlee: Or allocate the time to get to that granular level.
1:02:30
Rob Greenlee: It can make very small decisions very quickly based on the goal, right?
1:02:35
Rob Greenlee: Yes.
1:02:35
Rob Greenlee: Not so much me getting in the weeds of telling it precisely to put this here and
1:02:41
Rob Greenlee: this there, but I do do that sometimes.
1:02:44
Rob Greenlee: Like I'll, I'll tell the AI to change my navigation bar and add links to
1:02:54
Rob Greenlee: other parts of the website, or feature stuff, or bring stuff up to the top
1:02:59
Rob Greenlee: of the fold of the page or whatever.
1:03:01
Rob Greenlee: And it'll it'll do what I tell it precisely to do, and then I get
1:03:07
Rob Greenlee: to review it, and then if it's a little bit off, I just tell it to
1:03:11
Rob Greenlee: adjust it and we're good, right?
1:03:13
Rob Greenlee: Yeah.
1:03:13
Rob Greenlee: So it's like having your own personal developer that's always
1:03:18
Rob Greenlee: there able to, to make things.
1:03:21
Rob Greenlee: And then it also has the ability to do…
1:03:23
Rob Greenlee: Create back-end databases and do…
1:03:26
Rob Greenlee: You know, I built whole back-end admins- Yes … to support a website myself.
1:03:31
Rob Greenlee: So it's, it's…
1:03:33
Rob Greenlee: It can be a little bit technically challenged to get one set up, but, uh,
1:03:36
Rob Greenlee: and once you've got one set up once, you can, um, you can replicate it pretty
1:03:41
Rob Greenlee: fast into other projects and other, other completely different websites.
1:03:47
Rob Greenlee: And I'm doing that with the Podcast Hall of Fame right now.
1:03:49
Rob Greenlee: I'm creating a whole extensive You know, w-web application for the Hall
1:03:55
Rob Greenlee: of Fame that's gonna have lots of different capabilities, um, that hasn't
1:03:59
Rob Greenlee: been launched yet, but it's in its development phase, and it's just me and
1:04:04
Rob Greenlee: my AI that's, um, that's working on it.
1:04:07
Rob Greenlee: So yeah, I, I just see so much potential for this.
1:04:11
Rob Greenlee: And I, I do think that people are going to be empowered by it.
1:04:15
Rob Greenlee: It's not…
1:04:16
Rob Greenlee: I think we're a little bit too focused on its, its, um, its negative aspects, right?
1:04:23
Rob Greenlee: Um, because the, there are obviously negative aspects of AI
1:04:28
Rob Greenlee: that, um, people object to, and oftentimes they're fairly legitimate
1:04:33
Rob Greenlee: reasons to be concerned about it.
1:04:36
Rob Greenlee: But, you know, technology's always been a, you know, a take the good with
1:04:40
Rob Greenlee: the bad type of a situation, right?
1:04:43
Rob Greenlee: There, there's good uses and bad uses for technology and, and it's how we as humans
1:04:49
Rob Greenlee: use it is where it's important for us to have a good comprehension of, and using it
1:04:55
Rob Greenlee: in a responsible way is a big element of that, and that's a big part of trust too.
1:05:00
Rob Greenlee: Uh, and that's why I'm so focused on that.
1:05:02
Rob Greenlee: So I don't know.
1:05:03
Rob Greenlee: What's your thoughts now?
1:05:04
Yuri Kleban: Yeah, no, I mean, lots to digest, but I, I'll just end, you
1:05:07
Yuri Kleban: know, or add to it, is that there's definitely, you know, people's fears.
1:05:12
Yuri Kleban: Uh, you know, I don't wanna dismiss people who are feeling,
1:05:14
Yuri Kleban: "Is this gonna replace me?"
1:05:15
Yuri Kleban: 'Cause I talk to a lot of, uh, young students as well, and I have- Yeah
1:05:19
Yuri Kleban: nieces and, uh, and then again, we talk about this political-
1:05:22
Yuri Kleban: There is … world that we're in.
1:05:23
Yuri Kleban: Like, people are afraid of where this is going, and the whole data centers,
1:05:27
Yuri Kleban: and what is it gonna do to the world.
1:05:29
Yuri Kleban: A- and again, we don't have enough time, and I'm happy to to, to do a follow-up
1:05:32
Yuri Kleban: or talk to anyone in your audience.
1:05:33
Yuri Kleban: Like, there's definitely pros and cons.
1:05:35
Yuri Kleban: Like I tell people, and you could do this right now to an
1:05:37
Yuri Kleban: LLM or just research yourself.
1:05:39
Yuri Kleban: You could search on Google or wherever you want to.
1:05:41
Yuri Kleban: Like, there's pros and cons.
1:05:43
Yuri Kleban: I don't see the world usually as just like binary A and B, you know, one and zero.
1:05:48
Yuri Kleban: Yeah.
1:05:48
Yuri Kleban: There's a lot of things behind it and I do think there's a role for
1:05:52
Yuri Kleban: the corporations, the companies, the individuals, the government, like
1:05:56
Yuri Kleban: everyone needs to be in this together.
1:06:00
Yuri Kleban: And, and obviously there's lots of dis- disagreements and all these issues.
1:06:03
Yuri Kleban: But if you leave that o- on the side, again- I still believe that
1:06:08
Yuri Kleban: most humans, like, mean well, right?
1:06:12
Yuri Kleban: Like, I, I don't believe people are just born evil and everyone
1:06:14
Yuri Kleban: wants to hurt each other and, and do d- um, and I'm not being naive.
1:06:18
Yuri Kleban: There's awful people, like people I- I've seen trying to use, and
1:06:22
Yuri Kleban: I've seen this with my own family.
1:06:23
Yuri Kleban: Like, they would do an audio of me or somebody and call to my family
1:06:26
Yuri Kleban: or whatever and say, "Oh, I am Yuri," like, "Give me money," right?
1:06:29
Yuri Kleban: Like, it's awful.
1:06:30
Yuri Kleban: Let's … what horrible people are using it, this AI technology and, and that's
1:06:33
Yuri Kleban: why the trust is, is being eroded.
1:06:35
Yuri Kleban: I'm still believer b- you know, that there's so many better, nice, good people
1:06:40
Yuri Kleban: who are going to be blocking, working on solutions because I think overall as
1:06:43
Yuri Kleban: humanity we wanna live and survive, right?
1:06:46
Yuri Kleban: It's in our DNA and we're less likely to try to hurt ourselves.
1:06:49
Yuri Kleban: We … Even if we do dumb things and then argue and bicker,
1:06:52
Yuri Kleban: at the end of the day, right?
1:06:54
Yuri Kleban: We, we all kind of go through these life journeys together.
1:06:56
Yuri Kleban: We grow up, we live, we're happy, we're sad.
1:07:00
Yuri Kleban: We … You know, there's an ending to, to us, at least as we know it.
1:07:03
Yuri Kleban: And, and to me Really what, what I'm hoping people understand is not to
1:07:08
Yuri Kleban: just trust AI blindly, especially don't trust this guy, I work at Google, of
1:07:12
Yuri Kleban: course, like who, who is he to tell us?
1:07:14
Yuri Kleban: But I'm saying like do your own research and look at the pros and cons.
1:07:18
Yuri Kleban: Have these debates.
1:07:19
Yuri Kleban: I constantly would w- at, at, at work with Gemini, I, I constantly like, you know,
1:07:24
Yuri Kleban: 'cause we work on technology uh, internal tools for our execs, I constantly have
1:07:28
Yuri Kleban: like, "Oh, should we use this framework?
1:07:29
Yuri Kleban: Should we do that?
1:07:30
Yuri Kleban: Should we not?
1:07:31
Yuri Kleban: Is this…"
1:07:31
Yuri Kleban: Before I even talk to my UIUX team, right?
1:07:34
Yuri Kleban: I'm having these conversations, even if someone says, "Hey,
1:07:36
Yuri Kleban: this button should be green."
1:07:38
Yuri Kleban: I'm having this conversation, should it be green?
1:07:39
Yuri Kleban: What's a better idea?
1:07:41
Yuri Kleban: Give me the pros and cons.
1:07:42
Yuri Kleban: I really encourage everyone that's listening, do those researches on
1:07:47
Yuri Kleban: the good and the bad, and I think from everything I've done, is I
1:07:51
Yuri Kleban: think there's more good than bad.
1:07:52
Yuri Kleban: And to your point that there's enough examples in society where we as
1:07:57
Yuri Kleban: humans, even though we had dangerous technology, think of nuclear weapons
1:08:00
Yuri Kleban: and all that, and I know war is still going on unfortunately and it's sad,
1:08:03
Yuri Kleban: but I'm saying we managed it and I truly believe that together we can…
1:08:08
Yuri Kleban: We have to have these conversations by the way to manage it, and then if we
1:08:12
Yuri Kleban: can get past that, the benefits that I'm clearly seeing, to your point, Rob,
1:08:16
Yuri Kleban: if we can teach more people to use AI and AI becomes easier and we make it…
1:08:21
Yuri Kleban: I'm hoping by the way it's as free in the future as water.
1:08:24
Yuri Kleban: You know, you can go to the library and get free water.
1:08:27
Yuri Kleban: How ama- or open, you know, the water spout at your home or in the office, like
1:08:31
Yuri Kleban: how amazing would that be if everyone got that, those skills, those superpowers, and
1:08:35
Yuri Kleban: we upgrade ourselves as, as, as humans?
1:08:38
Yuri Kleban: Like, I think it, it'll be crazy to me if we don't want everyone to have
1:08:42
Yuri Kleban: this, to like and ef- eventually find a way to make it free or a way that
1:08:46
Yuri Kleban: it's kinda like, you know, when you go on YouTube you don't pay for it.
1:08:48
Yuri Kleban: It's free.
1:08:49
Yuri Kleban: There's ads and you can be annoyed, but as a society we agreed we're
1:08:52
Yuri Kleban: okay with the ads for now because we get all this free content.
1:08:55
Yuri Kleban: Imagine everyone gets AI and, and automation and, and it's, again,
1:08:59
Yuri Kleban: done in a way that's helping.
1:09:00
Yuri Kleban: Like I think there's gonna be more a lot, even a lot more good than bad.
1:09:05
Yuri Kleban: And then to your point, like may- maybe we'll all be traveling the stars
1:09:08
Yuri Kleban: and, and doing even cooler things than, than we're doing right now.
1:09:11
Rob Greenlee: Yeah.
1:09:12
Rob Greenlee: I try and draw some parallels to what, what we all saw with the
1:09:16
Rob Greenlee: growth of the internet, right?
1:09:18
Rob Greenlee: And how that took many years for it to have widespread adoption and, and
1:09:25
Rob Greenlee: I think we're, I think we're at like maybe 90% of the global population
1:09:29
Rob Greenlee: has some sort of access to the internet at some level or somewhere.
1:09:34
Rob Greenlee: So w- even the basic level of internet access, we're not even 100%.
1:09:40
Rob Greenlee: So this is definitely a Time scale.
1:09:43
Rob Greenlee: Now granted it could be faster this way because, you know, there's not those
1:09:48
Rob Greenlee: physical limitations that the internet had of having the infrastructure or whatever.
1:09:53
Rob Greenlee: The infrastructure is pretty much already built.
1:09:55
Rob Greenlee: Now it's just a, a access type of an issue, right?
1:10:00
Rob Greenlee: And with platforms like Starlink and whatever that are blanketing the Earth
1:10:05
Rob Greenlee: with internet access, there's really very little gating access issues right now.
1:10:12
Rob Greenlee: It's probably what, what device or, you know, what's the availability.
1:10:16
Rob Greenlee: I know in Africa there's been a big movement over the last few years
1:10:21
Rob Greenlee: of offering low-cost phones and-
1:10:24
Yuri Kleban: Yes
1:10:24
Rob Greenlee: things like that, that g- has given people that have traditionally
1:10:27
Rob Greenlee: not had access to technology access.
1:10:30
Rob Greenlee: And I think that's gonna happen with AI, and it may happen a lot faster
1:10:35
Rob Greenlee: than it happened with the internet.
1:10:37
Rob Greenlee: And I think that's probably what's gonna wind up happening and I just
1:10:41
Rob Greenlee: don't think either one of us really know what the implications of this are.
1:10:44
Rob Greenlee: Just like when I was doing my national syndicated radio show about the internet
1:10:48
Rob Greenlee: I didn't know the topics I was talking about, about wireless internet were gonna
1:10:53
Rob Greenlee: really be as important as they are today.
1:10:56
Rob Greenlee: Um, just like now, I don't think we know the importance of what we're building
1:11:00
Rob Greenlee: here with AI to the future of the world.
1:11:04
Rob Greenlee: Um, and it could be something far beyond any comprehension that we can have
1:11:09
Rob Greenlee: right now, just like it was with, you know, what happened with social media
1:11:14
Rob Greenlee: and, and it's not always good, right?
1:11:16
Rob Greenlee: There's good sides and bad sides.
1:11:18
Rob Greenlee: I mean, I've enjoyed social media, but I also can see the,
1:11:21
Rob Greenlee: the manipulation of it too, right?
1:11:23
Rob Greenlee: Yeah.
1:11:23
Rob Greenlee: And there's human greed and human aspiration and human biases get
1:11:31
Rob Greenlee: layered into any of these things.
1:11:33
Rob Greenlee: And so I think we're gonna see that with AI too that it was built on AI.
1:11:37
Rob Greenlee: I mean, it was built on human knowledge, so of course it's gonna reflect the
1:11:42
Rob Greenlee: values and the complexity of, of the, the human experience, right?
1:11:47
Rob Greenlee: Yeah.
1:11:48
Rob Greenlee: And maybe it's gonna be more intelligent than us, and if it is, maybe it'll, it'll
1:11:52
Rob Greenlee: make better choices than humans make.
1:11:54
Rob Greenlee: I don't know.
1:11:55
Yuri Kleban: That's right.
1:11:55
Yuri Kleban: I, I'll just end with this.
1:11:56
Yuri Kleban: I know we've been talking for a while and I have so many more
1:11:59
Yuri Kleban: topics, but Rob, think about this.
1:12:01
Yuri Kleban: Podcasting.
1:12:02
Yuri Kleban: Yeah.
1:12:02
Yuri Kleban: I was just seeing the term or the plumbing started around 2000, 2001.
1:12:08
Yuri Kleban: And then the name really started around 2004.
1:12:12
Yuri Kleban: 2004.
1:12:12
Rob Greenlee: Right.
1:12:12
Yuri Kleban: Right?
1:12:13
Yuri Kleban: It became a bit more mainstream, like Apple added Podcast around 2005, and then
1:12:18
Yuri Kleban: it had like its thing back and forward.
1:12:20
Rob Greenlee: Mm-hmm.
1:12:20
Yuri Kleban: Then 2014 when Serial, you know, that podcast series became…
1:12:26
Yuri Kleban: That, that was when it started the golden age.
1:12:28
Yuri Kleban: And then 2020, if you remember with COVID, everyone's home, that blew up with videos.
1:12:33
Yuri Kleban: Yeah, right.
1:12:34
Yuri Kleban: And, and what I'm saying is like-
1:12:35
Rob Greenlee: Yeah
1:12:36
Rob Greenlee: … Yuri Kleban: that, and, and let me add one more.
1:12:38
Rob Greenlee: R- it was a few months ago, I remember reading this, Waymo cars Mm-hmm … right?
1:12:43
Rob Greenlee: There's no human driver.
1:12:45
Rob Greenlee: So if I exit and the door is one of those that I have to manually open, if I don't
1:12:49
Rob Greenlee: close it and walk away fully, that car can't move until you close the door.
1:12:54
Rob Greenlee: Mm-hmm.
1:12:55
Yuri Kleban: And so what was happening, at least in SF, is the, the Waymo
1:12:58
Yuri Kleban: operators would have to order an Uber driver to come in and close the door.
1:13:03
Rob Greenlee: Oh, no.
1:13:04
Yuri Kleban: And think about that.
1:13:05
Yuri Kleban: That was someone's job.
1:13:06
Yuri Kleban: They were paid to come in and close the door, and both of those, why I'm laughing
1:13:10
Yuri Kleban: and, and, and why I'm re- reminding us is to the point you're making.
1:13:13
Yuri Kleban: We don't even know what kind of jobs and content creators are gonna be…
1:13:17
Yuri Kleban: Like- Mm … I can only imagine as, again, as more content creators start
1:13:23
Yuri Kleban: creating, so that's more businesses-
1:13:26
Rob Greenlee: Yeah
1:13:26
Rob Greenlee: … Yuri Kleban: more new teams are gonna be created.
1:13:29
Rob Greenlee: AI is gonna come up with…
1:13:30
Rob Greenlee: You'll need, like, I don't know, a per- like your AI
1:13:33
Rob Greenlee: special- your prompt specialist.
1:13:35
Rob Greenlee: Maybe that's what Rob is gonna hire next, like the prompt specialist.
1:13:38
Rob Greenlee: That's all they do is just prompt the heck out of…
1:13:40
Rob Greenlee: Like I, I can't even phantom, to your point, like what kind of jobs.
1:13:44
Rob Greenlee: I think there's gonna be a huge influx of these types of jobs-
1:13:48
Rob Greenlee: Mm-hmm … that we haven't even thought about from the creator side
1:13:51
Rob Greenlee: of the house that, again, that it's kind of like the, the factory floor.
1:13:55
Rob Greenlee: You used to be on the factory.
1:13:56
Rob Greenlee: You used to do this and now there's robots, but now there's other things
1:13:59
Rob Greenlee: that people are doing that are…
1:14:01
Rob Greenlee: Like we were p- we got new jobs w- like the modern jobs.
1:14:05
Rob Greenlee: What's the next ones?
1:14:06
Rob Greenlee: I can't even tell you, but I do know we have not even thought about them, and in
1:14:10
Rob Greenlee: a year time, you can quote me on this.
1:14:12
Rob Greenlee: Yeah.
1:14:12
Rob Greenlee: We're all gonna laugh like, "Oh yeah, that crazy, you know, guy
1:14:15
Rob Greenlee: on, on Rob's show was right."
1:14:16
Rob Greenlee: Like, there's now ABC.
1:14:18
Rob Greenlee: Like, no one even knew these terms, and we just created it.
1:14:21
Rob Greenlee: Right.
1:14:21
Rob Greenlee: Well, I kind of wonder if what the future is, and I think we're already
1:14:25
Rob Greenlee: seeing it, is that each of us becomes our own, like our own business,
1:14:30
Rob Greenlee: our own ecosystem, our own, um, op- operation that's linked up with our
1:14:35
Rob Greenlee: interests, our desires, and our skills.
1:14:39
Rob Greenlee: Uh, and we create something in the world of value, and I think
1:14:44
Rob Greenlee: that it's not so much about jobs.
1:14:47
Rob Greenlee: It's more about empowerment for us to meet our full potential of
1:14:53
Rob Greenlee: what we're capable of producing based on our unique experiences
1:14:57
Rob Greenlee: and characteristics and skills.
1:14:59
Rob Greenlee: And I think we're seeing the very early days of that, But I think it's pretty,
1:15:04
Rob Greenlee: it's pretty extensive already actually.
1:15:06
Rob Greenlee: I think there, there's a lot of people starting startups, one-person
1:15:10
Rob Greenlee: startups now that are-- I mean, I'm, I'm doing the same thing with
1:15:13
Rob Greenlee: four websites and four platforms.
1:15:16
Rob Greenlee: You know, it's, you know, these tools are gonna enable people to make stuff
1:15:22
Rob Greenlee: for themselves, and I think that, that may be more likely where we're going.
1:15:27
Rob Greenlee: It's not so much that I'm gonna be going out looking for a job with
1:15:31
Rob Greenlee: ABC News or something like that.
1:15:33
Rob Greenlee: It's gonna be I'm gonna create my own platform, I'm gonna create my own
1:15:37
Rob Greenlee: thing, and then I'm gonna e-establish partnerships with other people that
1:15:41
Rob Greenlee: have a, an interest and are building AI capabilities too that I can partner with.
1:15:47
Rob Greenlee: I'm already starting to do some of this stuff right now with some of my platforms
1:15:50
Rob Greenlee: where I'm partnering with other AI platforms to add value to my platform.
1:15:55
Rob Greenlee: And so we're creating ecosystems of companies working together,
1:16:00
Rob Greenlee: and that may be what the new economy actually looks like
1:16:03
Yuri Kleban: Right on.
1:16:04
Yuri Kleban: I've no notes.
1:16:05
Yuri Kleban: I think that's definitely a, a strong possibility.
1:16:08
Yuri Kleban: The only, again, repetition I'll say is we don't…
1:16:11
Yuri Kleban: Like, every futurist that I've spoken, I'm similar to you, I love- Is
1:16:15
Rob Greenlee: wrong, right?
1:16:16
Yuri Kleban: Right.
1:16:16
Yuri Kleban: And we've all been even Ray Kurzweil, who I got to meet, brilliant futurist, who's
1:16:21
Yuri Kleban: pretty good on very specific things, but even he has things that he got wrong.
1:16:26
Rob Greenlee: Yeah,
1:16:26
Yuri Kleban: right.
1:16:26
Yuri Kleban: And, and my point is, again, I didn't hear any futurist say,
1:16:30
Yuri Kleban: "Hey, we're gonna, like…
1:16:32
Yuri Kleban: You know, with the job of 2026, there'll be people driving
1:16:35
Yuri Kleban: in Ubers closing Waymo cars."
1:16:37
Yuri Kleban: Like, no one predicted that.
1:16:38
Yuri Kleban: And, right.
1:16:39
Yuri Kleban: Uh, or, or podcasting- Right … is gonna be the biggest thing ever after 2020.
1:16:43
Yuri Kleban: Like, it's, like, everyone that I know is listening to a podcast.
1:16:46
Yuri Kleban: I have theirs.
1:16:46
Yuri Kleban: And so yeah my, my thing is I agree that there's, what you laid out
1:16:50
Yuri Kleban: is the clear, like, logical path.
1:16:53
Yuri Kleban: But as humans, as we start talking about this- … we're not perfect, so we're
1:16:56
Yuri Kleban: gonna come up with- It's gonna deviate, right … exactly, we're gonna deviate and
1:16:59
Yuri Kleban: come up with something that, like, no one even knew that like, oh my gosh, like…
1:17:05
Yuri Kleban: W- again, I was, I was joking.
1:17:07
Yuri Kleban: Like, we, you know, we're walking, and so you're creating energy,
1:17:10
Yuri Kleban: and this whole power problem that we're having in the world.
1:17:13
Yuri Kleban: What if, would someone, would AI figure out, like, you wear shoes,
1:17:16
Yuri Kleban: but we put something, and that gives power, and it sends it to the
1:17:19
Yuri Kleban: grid- … and as you walk, you get paid.
1:17:22
Yuri Kleban: You know, if you have a solar panel in, in- Yeah … here, right?
1:17:25
Yuri Kleban: But imagine, silly idea, but, like, we all walk, or a lot of us.
1:17:28
Yuri Kleban: Now there's gonna be jobs of people just to walk.
1:17:30
Yuri Kleban: You're just a, a power walker literally making power for data
1:17:34
Yuri Kleban: centers or your next door grocery shop.
1:17:37
Yuri Kleban: Like, that might seem crazy right now, but as technology can evolve much
1:17:42
Yuri Kleban: faster, and if we can use AI and someone can come up with this faster, my gosh,
1:17:46
Yuri Kleban: like, that'll be the next job that…
1:17:48
Yuri Kleban: And, you know, 10,000 people will sign up and, "Okay, cool.
1:17:51
Yuri Kleban: I'm part of that."
1:17:52
Rob Greenlee: Yeah, I'm gonna go out and ride my bike for my career because it's
1:17:55
Rob Greenlee: generating electricity for the grid.
1:17:57
Yuri Kleban: Exactly.
1:17:58
Yuri Kleban: Right.
1:17:58
Yuri Kleban: Exactly.
1:17:58
Yuri Kleban: It's paying for this podcast.
1:18:00
Yuri Kleban: Thank you.
1:18:01
Rob Greenlee: And at, at the same time, I'm getting and staying healthy, right?
1:18:04
Rob Greenlee: 'Cause I'm getting exercise.
1:18:05
Yuri Kleban: Exactly.
1:18:06
Yuri Kleban: Exactly.
1:18:07
Rob Greenlee: So yeah.
1:18:08
Rob Greenlee: That's, that sounds like a utopia, Yuri.
1:18:11
Yuri Kleban: I am…
1:18:11
Yuri Kleban: I would like us…
1:18:12
Yuri Kleban: You know, again, I am- I always want, I wanna be the naive person thinking
1:18:17
Yuri Kleban: that we can get to world peace, no war, and everyone can hold their hands.
1:18:20
Yuri Kleban: Because I, I think if we don't imagine that, then it won't happen.
1:18:24
Yuri Kleban: Some of us have to imagine that it's not just doom, gloom, and war, and
1:18:28
Yuri Kleban: death, that there's great things.
1:18:30
Yuri Kleban: And there's a few publication, like if people search, it's like the good
1:18:34
Yuri Kleban: news, like the people actually wanna show you, like there's actually really
1:18:36
Yuri Kleban: cool things happening in the world.
1:18:38
Yuri Kleban: So I encourage, again, I, I try to live with this mantra, be hap-
1:18:42
Yuri Kleban: We're alive in like the, the best time in the world, whether you like it or not.
1:18:45
Yuri Kleban: Like, throughout history, like there's never been something that
1:18:48
Yuri Kleban: we're going through, uh, that we're doing now, and I think we should,
1:18:52
Yuri Kleban: yeah, take this opportunity and then be nice and understanding to
1:18:54
Yuri Kleban: as many people as possible, make friends, and just enjoy life.
1:18:58
Yuri Kleban: It goes by fast.
1:18:59
Rob Greenlee: Yeah.
1:19:00
Rob Greenlee: Yeah.
1:19:01
Rob Greenlee: It definitely does.
1:19:03
Rob Greenlee: All of us are on a, uh, a terminal path, but that terminal path can
1:19:08
Rob Greenlee: be an exciting journey too, so-
1:19:11
Yuri Kleban: Exactly
1:19:11
Yuri Kleban: … Rob Greenlee: that's w- what I see the future looking like is Especially if we
1:19:16
Yuri Kleban: can fully embrace what's, what changes are happening instead of fighting them
1:19:23
Yuri Kleban: and really resisting these, these changes.
1:19:27
Yuri Kleban: And I, I understand it comes from a certain uncertainty that
1:19:31
Yuri Kleban: generates fear, and it creates, um, concern about, you know, being
1:19:36
Yuri Kleban: able to think about the future.
1:19:38
Yuri Kleban: And I think that's probably a good way to end the show tonight, is to talk
1:19:42
Yuri Kleban: about that, that future, and that's what we tried to do tonight, is to
1:19:48
Yuri Kleban: share our thoughts about the future.
1:19:50
Yuri Kleban: And, and both of us don't have the probably the, the answer to that.
1:19:54
Yuri Kleban: But there are clues, and a lot of these things, just based on my own 20 years
1:20:00
Yuri Kleban: of being in the technology, following technology, and the same with you, is
1:20:03
Yuri Kleban: that these things evolve over time.
1:20:05
Yuri Kleban: They don't necessarily leap-
1:20:08
Rob Greenlee VO: Mm-hmm
1:20:09
Rob Greenlee VO: … Rob Greenlee: in big leaps.
1:20:10
Rob Greenlee VO: So what we see today are little glimmers of what's, what's going to develop.
1:20:16
Rob Greenlee VO: Um, we just don't know how far they're going to develop and in what
1:20:21
Rob Greenlee VO: direction they're gonna develop.
1:20:22
Rob Greenlee VO: It's all based on human interests and human participation and human involvement.
1:20:28
Rob Greenlee VO: But I think the thing that I didn't like that I saw happen a couple weeks
1:20:32
Rob Greenlee VO: ago is when all the AI leaders were talking about how AI's gonna kill us all.
1:20:37
Rob Greenlee VO: I thought that that was, that was incorrect.
1:20:40
Yuri Kleban: I, I agree.
1:20:41
Yuri Kleban: Yeah.
1:20:42
Rob Greenlee: Again, um- Yeah
1:20:42
Rob Greenlee: … Yuri Kleban: another episode, but definitely for audience, and, and you
1:20:46
Rob Greenlee: as well, Rob, like, I could take…
1:20:48
Rob Greenlee: talk day and night.
1:20:49
Rob Greenlee: I don't see it as black and white, like we talked about.
1:20:52
Rob Greenlee: There's dangers.
1:20:52
Rob Greenlee: We could talk about them.
1:20:53
Rob Greenlee: There's things that are mitigating.
1:20:55
Rob Greenlee: There's, th- there's just, it- it's so nuanced, but at the end of the day, I
1:20:59
Rob Greenlee: do again wanna come back to the point, like, I don't see from everything I'm
1:21:03
Rob Greenlee: sending, it's not the end of the world.
1:21:05
Rob Greenlee VO: Mm-hmm.
1:21:05
Yuri Kleban: AI is not going to kill us.
1:21:07
Yuri Kleban: It's not gonna take your toaster and do aw- awful things.
1:21:11
Yuri Kleban: It is building some of the coolest th- And people using AI, let's be very real.
1:21:15
Yuri Kleban: Yeah.
1:21:15
Yuri Kleban: People using AI- Yeah … are doing the coolest things ever, from content
1:21:19
Yuri Kleban: creation to innovation, to solving these math problems, to literally
1:21:23
Yuri Kleban: how many people have told me, "I use AI, and then it told me to go check
1:21:27
Yuri Kleban: for this thing with a doctor, and I found out I have a very specific
1:21:30
Yuri Kleban: cancer and I'm treating it early."
1:21:32
Yuri Kleban: Like, it already is serving that stuff.
1:21:34
Yuri Kleban: And-
1:21:35
Rob Greenlee VO: Mm-hmm
1:21:35
Rob Greenlee VO: … Yuri Kleban: anyone that, like, it's hard for me to just, like,
1:21:37
Rob Greenlee VO: go with like, "Oh, it's horrible.
1:21:38
Rob Greenlee VO: It sucks.
1:21:39
Rob Greenlee VO: It's gonna kill us all," because I've already seen enough people-
1:21:43
Rob Greenlee VO: Right … see the benefit of it.
1:21:44
Rob Greenlee VO: Yeah.
1:21:44
Rob Greenlee VO: And again, I'm not saying it's perfect.
1:21:47
Rob Greenlee VO: There needs to be a lot of co- There's a lot of topics that
1:21:50
Rob Greenlee VO: still need to be talked about.
1:21:51
Rob Greenlee VO: Power, how do we, again, re- rebalance?
1:21:54
Rob Greenlee VO: We don't want just a few people to have their hands on this.
1:21:56
Rob Greenlee VO: How do we teach the next generation?
1:21:58
Rob Greenlee VO: Because that's really about everyone in our ages are, like, up in arms- We,
1:22:03
Rob Greenlee VO: the most important thing in my mind is get the kids, get them ready, make
1:22:07
Rob Greenlee VO: sure it's, like, they're able to use it, empower them, show them the safety.
1:22:11
Rob Greenlee VO: Just kind of like as people, we were growing up and they told us, like,
1:22:14
Rob Greenlee VO: "Don't go on AOL and talk with a stranger and then go meet them in a store."
1:22:18
Rob Greenlee VO: Like, we had to learn that.
1:22:19
Rob Greenlee VO: Unfortunately, there was no rules.
1:22:21
Rob Greenlee VO: E- eventually that became the law and, and, and also- Yeah … how
1:22:24
Rob Greenlee VO: we, we interact as humans.
1:22:25
Rob Greenlee VO: I think the same thing, like I would focus on Re- reminding people that
1:22:29
Rob Greenlee VO: are more on the negative side is, like, it- once we can get it right,
1:22:34
Rob Greenlee VO: 'cause it's not perfect today, but I, I do think we can get it more right
1:22:37
Rob Greenlee VO: than wrong, the kids, the future is really what's gonna benefit the most.
1:22:41
Rob Greenlee VO: Forget about you and I even.
1:22:43
Rob Greenlee VO: Right.
1:22:43
Rob Greenlee VO: Right.
1:22:43
Rob Greenlee VO: These are, like, and the next generation who are ideally looking at this as,
1:22:48
Rob Greenlee VO: as creative outlets, as, as improving rather than harming and fighting
1:22:51
Rob Greenlee VO: with each other, 'cause that's what I see mo- most people I know that go
1:22:55
Rob Greenlee VO: to these chat, uh, LLMs, excuse me and they wanna create, do something.
1:22:58
Rob Greenlee VO: They're not like, "How do I hurt my nextdoor neighbor?"
1:23:01
Rob Greenlee VO: Right.
1:23:01
Rob Greenlee VO: Like, that's-
1:23:02
Rob Greenlee: Yeah, I mean, also wouldn't be there.
1:23:04
Rob Greenlee: I mean, if you're open enough to get involved in these, you're probably going
1:23:08
Rob Greenlee: to think of it as something that you can create something that's beneficial else
1:23:13
Rob Greenlee: you wouldn't be there to begin with.
1:23:15
Rob Greenlee: So, you know, y- Yuri, it was great to have you on the, on, on the show.
1:23:19
Rob Greenlee: We kind of went all over the, the place tonight, but, you know, that's AI for you.
1:23:24
Rob Greenlee: It- I told you that's
1:23:24
Yuri Kleban: what's gonna happen.
1:23:25
Rob Greenlee: It takes you all over the place, so…
1:23:28
Rob Greenlee: And it's, and the opportunity is huge.
1:23:30
Rob Greenlee: So, so if you wanted to follow the show a little closer, go to newmediashow.com
1:23:36
Rob Greenlee: and I've got a newsletter in there that it comes out every week to support
1:23:40
Rob Greenlee: an episode of the show, and it has some news headlines, and it has some
1:23:44
Rob Greenlee: other capabilities, and it keeps you closer and connected to the show.
1:23:49
Rob Greenlee: I'm gonna increasingly use that show or that newsletter to let
1:23:52
Rob Greenlee: people know about the, the guests that I have coming up on the show.
1:23:55
Rob Greenlee: So, but yeah, Yuri, it was great to have you on the show, and it, i-
1:24:01
Rob Greenlee: is there a great place for somebody that's listening to this to, to go
1:24:05
Rob Greenlee: and find you and connect with you?
1:24:07
Rob Greenlee: Is it LinkedIn or where
1:24:09
Yuri Kleban: is it?
1:24:09
Yuri Kleban: Yes.
1:24:09
Yuri Kleban: I, I got too late into the Twitter/X game, so I'm on LinkedIn, uh, Yuri Kleivan.
1:24:15
Yuri Kleban: Definitely hit me up.
1:24:17
Yuri Kleban: Always love talking with people who are trying to do something,
1:24:21
Yuri Kleban: working on businesses, coming ideas, have questions about AI.
1:24:24
Yuri Kleban: I, yeah, I love talking about it all because a- again, the conversation is
1:24:28
Yuri Kleban: what fuels us and connects us as humans.
1:24:31
Rob Greenlee: Yeah.
1:24:31
Rob Greenlee: I agree.
1:24:32
Rob Greenlee: I agree.
1:24:32
Rob Greenlee: It's a, it's an exciting time, but it's also, as usual, it's always
1:24:37
Rob Greenlee: a little scary, too, isn't it?
1:24:39
Yuri Kleban: That's right.
1:24:40
Rob Greenlee: That's right.
1:24:40
Rob Greenlee: But that's what makes it interesting.
1:24:42
Rob Greenlee: Exactly.
1:24:43
Rob Greenlee: So anyway, well, thank you for watching this episode, whether it's
1:24:48
Rob Greenlee: live right now or on demand later on as an audio and video podcast
1:24:52
Rob Greenlee: on YouTube or LinkedIn or X or you know, or off of the newmediashow.com
1:24:57
Rob Greenlee: website.
1:24:58
Rob Greenlee: So you can get it all there, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, all those places, too.
1:25:02
Rob Greenlee: So Yuri, thank you so much.
1:25:04
Rob Greenlee: Yeah.
1:25:05
Rob Greenlee: I appreciate it, and good night, everybody, and thank you for
1:25:07
Rob Greenlee: being here with us tonight.
1:25:09
Yuri Kleban: Thank you.