Latest / Halo Territory: A Los Angeles Angels Podcast / FAST & FURIOUS: Former Angels pitching coach Mike Butcher addresses baseball's obsession with velocity

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FAST & FURIOUS: Former Angels pitching coach Mike Butcher addresses baseball's obsession with velocity · Halo Territory: A Los Angeles Angels Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Hey, Angel fans, and welcome back to Halo Territory. I
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: am Mike D. Giovanna, former RelA Times Baseball writer and
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: host of the show. Joined my my regular co host,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Mark Trumbo, the former Angel slugger, and we have a
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: very special guest today and Mike Butcher, the former Angels
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: pitching coach and former Angels reliever from going back to
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety five, my first year on the beat, Remember that, Butch.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I do remember. Good times, good times.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Hey, great to have you on the show, Butch. We
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: appreciated how you doing today?
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Great, Thanks for having me. Thanks really appreciate it.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: So we're going to start today with a video that
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: sort of leads us right into our first topic, which
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: is baseball's obsession with velocity. Now, this video, which is
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: posted to social media last December, shows Angels right handed
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: pitcher Jackawitz and Red's right handed Chase Petty in a
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: contest to see who could throw the hardest. And remember
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: this was taken back in December. Okay, maybe hard.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: All right, we could shop now, we can stow.
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: That's what that's that was ridiculous.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: The most is how non So.
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's already we are the these are.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: Thread hondo Jack, you know, yeah give me that.
• 1:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah, lots of bullet right here.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: Game, how you get throwing right there?
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: This video is not meant to indict Jack or Chase.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: So this kind of stuff is happening all over the
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: country all times a year, at many different levels. But
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: butch as a former pitching coach especially, do you just
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: sort of cringe when you see stuff like this?
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a little bit. I mean, I'm all for velocity.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: I think velocity has always been around, always been part
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: of the game.
• 2:52
  Speaker 6: So it's throwing strikes, but I think when you roll
• 2:57
  Speaker 6: back in time and you look at pictures throw them
• 3:00
  Speaker 6: bullpens and what have you. In the off season, I mean,
• 3:02
  Speaker 6: we would try to throw as hard as we could,
• 3:05
  Speaker 6: I guess at the same time, but it wasn't always
• 3:08
  Speaker 6: necessarily like.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: Clowning around like that. That's how you get injuries.
• 3:14
  Speaker 6: There's better ways to create velocity that a lot of
• 3:18
  Speaker 6: things that aren't believed in anymore, but they definitely work.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: Long toss, one hop, those type of things.
• 3:23
  Speaker 6: But to do it like that, especially with no intentions
• 3:29
  Speaker 6: of throwing strikes, is kind of counterproductive at my honest.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: Opinion, I do I do understand the.
• 3:37
  Speaker 6: Reason why they do it to create velocity, but at
• 3:40
  Speaker 6: the same time, I want to see command. If I'm
• 3:42
  Speaker 6: going to look at command or control and look at
• 3:45
  Speaker 6: the best pitching staff in baseball, probably right now it's
• 3:48
  Speaker 6: probably Cleveland starting five that hasn't been no injuries, knock
• 3:54
  Speaker 6: on wood for them. They have probably one of the
• 3:57
  Speaker 6: best bullpens in the game. And the reason why is
• 3:59
  Speaker 6: because they're starts go deeper in the game, they're more efficient.
• 4:02
  Speaker 6: They don't necessarily have the hardest throwers in the game.
• 4:04
  Speaker 6: They have guys who know how to pitch, and that's
• 4:07
  Speaker 6: a credit to their system. You know, Joe Tower is
• 4:10
  Speaker 6: a gain that you probably played with Trump and the
• 4:11
  Speaker 6: minor leagues a little bit, or maybe you missed him.
• 4:14
  Speaker 6: And Carl willis the pitching coach in Cleveland. So I
• 4:17
  Speaker 6: think they do a great job of developing players and
• 4:21
  Speaker 6: to do all the right things.
• 4:24
  Speaker 7: It's everywhere, and it's not just on the pitching side.
• 4:27
  Speaker 7: We've covered it on the hitting side too, with similar
• 4:33
  Speaker 7: training methods, reckless, abandoned, setting pr goals and yes, also
• 4:40
  Speaker 7: looks very dangerous too. So I guess the kind of
• 4:43
  Speaker 7: question I have you have to do this stuff though
• 4:46
  Speaker 7: to some degree to fit in now, I don't know.
• 4:50
  Speaker 7: I'm assuming the minor leagues have implemented a number of things.
• 4:54
  Speaker 7: I don't think they'll mimic exactly like what we're looking
• 4:57
  Speaker 7: at there, but the weighted balls are there to stay.
• 5:01
  Speaker 7: We've was a guest of ours a while back. Always
• 5:05
  Speaker 7: an interesting opinion with Jared, But I didn't you know,
• 5:08
  Speaker 7: that wasn't part of what he did, and he didn't,
• 5:11
  Speaker 7: you know, he's just kinda we kept a PC but
• 5:15
  Speaker 7: what wasn't really into that, let's say, and we was
• 5:18
  Speaker 7: a guy not to get off too far. But I mean,
• 5:21
  Speaker 7: he had unbelievable command. Now he could let it loose,
• 5:25
  Speaker 7: but he didn't prioritize hitting ninety six as many times
• 5:29
  Speaker 7: as he could, especially early in his career. But I
• 5:32
  Speaker 7: guess you know, if you're and I know pitchers like
• 5:37
  Speaker 7: the teams will just tell them outright, you have to
• 5:40
  Speaker 7: throw harder. So for minor leaguers especially, that has to
• 5:43
  Speaker 7: be at front of their mind right now. Stuff stuff
• 5:45
  Speaker 7: stuff vlo velo vlo. I don't know where command falls in,
• 5:50
  Speaker 7: but are these the type of things you've seen with
• 5:52
  Speaker 7: the players recently You've worked with especially.
• 5:55
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I still work with players of
• 5:58
  Speaker 6: a buddy Mine's an agent, worked with a lot of
• 6:00
  Speaker 6: his players. Mental skills part of it. They send me
• 6:04
  Speaker 6: video and stuff like that, and I do break it down.
• 6:07
  Speaker 6: But the one thing that I hear a lot through
• 6:11
  Speaker 6: numerous organization is, hey, you're not going to get to
• 6:15
  Speaker 6: the next level, whether it be able to double A,
• 6:17
  Speaker 6: A triple A, double A to the big leagues, unless
• 6:20
  Speaker 6: you start throwing harder.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: And you know, it's just never been part of the game.
• 6:25
  Speaker 6: And you look at Jared Weaver, and when Jared Weaver
• 6:27
  Speaker 6: was drafted, Jared would hit ninety six ninety seven miles
• 6:30
  Speaker 6: an hour on a regular basis, have command of the
• 6:34
  Speaker 6: change up, a little slider, a change up that ended
• 6:38
  Speaker 6: up being phenomenal, and a curveball that I remember when
• 6:41
  Speaker 6: he first threw his first bullpen was in Rancho Cucamonga
• 6:45
  Speaker 6: and he threw some curveballs and he's like, what do
• 6:49
  Speaker 6: you think when I go, I don't know yet, you know,
• 6:52
  Speaker 6: because it was kind of a little lollipop curveball. And
• 6:55
  Speaker 6: his answer, this is the first day that we had
• 6:57
  Speaker 6: ever met. He goes, the hitters will let me know
• 6:59
  Speaker 6: one day and I go, oh, yeah, they'll let you know.
• 7:01
  Speaker 6: You know, but but we've had such a great way
• 7:04
  Speaker 6: and knew how to pitch that he could drop that
• 7:06
  Speaker 6: thing in there for a first pitch strike at will
• 7:08
  Speaker 6: or behind the count. At one point in a bullpen
• 7:12
  Speaker 6: session in Anaheim, I put the GoPro on I didn't
• 7:15
  Speaker 6: put it on our bullpen catcher and had we throw
• 7:19
  Speaker 6: his bullpen and talking about threading the needle, I mean,
• 7:23
  Speaker 6: he would lay it pitch back door, back door, curveball
• 7:26
  Speaker 6: and just feather that in on the on the outside
• 7:29
  Speaker 6: corner back door.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: His command, you know.
• 7:32
  Speaker 6: With the fastball, as you guys know, it was just
• 7:34
  Speaker 6: incredible and he was one of the best command pitchers
• 7:38
  Speaker 6: with all. If you take the whole package that I
• 7:40
  Speaker 6: had the pleasure of working with when I was.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: In Anaheim, what do you think a better way would
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: lead to develop pitchers butch if you could convince them
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: not to stress velo so much.
• 7:52
  Speaker 6: Well again, I mean I said before, I mean, I
• 7:55
  Speaker 6: do think velo is a part of the game.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: You have to have it.
• 7:58
  Speaker 6: You don't want to be you know, eighty eight ninety
• 8:02
  Speaker 6: and just trying to just absolutely dot every pitch.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: It's just not going to probably work.
• 8:07
  Speaker 6: But if your velo's in a ninety five mile an
• 8:10
  Speaker 6: hour range and you have command of three pitches, I
• 8:15
  Speaker 6: think you have an opportunity to be very successful in
• 8:17
  Speaker 6: today's game.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: I think what we have.
• 8:21
  Speaker 6: Gotten away from is when I go watch bullpens at
• 8:25
  Speaker 6: the minor league level, especially that they are, it's like
• 8:30
  Speaker 6: a fifteen pitch bullpen. You're just not going to get
• 8:32
  Speaker 6: any kind of skill work out of that, or develop
• 8:35
  Speaker 6: any type of control or command by throwing a fifteen
• 8:38
  Speaker 6: pitch bullpen.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: It's just not going to happen.
• 8:41
  Speaker 6: Generally, we would tailor bullpens around a forty pitch bullpen session.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: We would throw two times in between starts.
• 8:48
  Speaker 6: One would be a touch and feel where you feel
• 8:50
  Speaker 6: for your spind, you feel for your off speed pitches,
• 8:53
  Speaker 6: or maybe it's just feel for.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: The strike zone with your fastball.
• 8:56
  Speaker 6: And I think we've gotten away from that in the
• 8:58
  Speaker 6: minor league systems, and I have actually witnessed myself, so
• 9:01
  Speaker 6: it's just not you know, it's something that they could do.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: A lot that are at.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: Is there not enough emphasis placed on the mental aspects
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: of pitching, like reading swings, understanding situations, controlling emotions, maybe
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: even channeling some of those emotions into more positive energy.
• 9:22
  Speaker 6: I think, you know, you look at most teams have
• 9:25
  Speaker 6: mental skills coaches in the game, and most of those
• 9:28
  Speaker 6: guys never played the game, which doesn't mean that they're
• 9:31
  Speaker 6: bad at all, but there's a different type of emotion
• 9:34
  Speaker 6: when you actually have been on that field and understand
• 9:38
  Speaker 6: truly how to channel that emotion in every pitch or
• 9:42
  Speaker 6: every swing. A lost art is reading pitches, you know,
• 9:47
  Speaker 6: or excuse me, reading hitter swings, and that's a big
• 9:50
  Speaker 6: part of the game. And I think all of our
• 9:53
  Speaker 6: guys at Anaheim and even when I was in Tampa
• 9:56
  Speaker 6: Bay in Arizona, I would try to teach those guys, hey,
• 9:59
  Speaker 6: this is what to look for. And a guy's swing
• 10:01
  Speaker 6: if I could see them, you know, a guy over rotating,
• 10:03
  Speaker 6: I know that I could get him inside all day.
• 10:06
  Speaker 6: Or you know with the HLP swinging the garbage swing
• 10:09
  Speaker 6: that they have out there right now. I mean, that's
• 10:11
  Speaker 6: that's a that's a recipe for punch outs and I
• 10:14
  Speaker 6: and that's I stated that many years.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: Ago on the Wall Street Journal.
• 10:17
  Speaker 6: Out of all publications, the Wall Street Journal reached out
• 10:20
  Speaker 6: to me about why are you guys consistently breaking strikeout
• 10:23
  Speaker 6: records with the Angels. And the reason was is because
• 10:28
  Speaker 6: all these swings started coming in the game where it's
• 10:30
  Speaker 6: just uppercut, uppercut, uppercut, and I'm like, man, that's an
• 10:32
  Speaker 6: out waiting to happen, and yes, are you go?
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: Is a picture going to make mistakes? Mistakes?
• 10:37
  Speaker 6: Excuse me, absolutely, We're gonna make mistakes a lot. But
• 10:43
  Speaker 6: if you're giving me an out by swinging like that, man,
• 10:47
  Speaker 6: I'm taking it. And we we exposed it, you know,
• 10:52
  Speaker 6: pretty much every year in Anaheim did the same thing
• 10:55
  Speaker 6: with the Diamondbacks. I saw something the day, not to
• 10:58
  Speaker 6: pat myself in the back, but we broke the strikeout
• 11:01
  Speaker 6: record in the organization there when I was there with
• 11:05
  Speaker 6: a staff that did not compete with a Randy Johnson
• 11:08
  Speaker 6: or Kurt Shilling. You know, they had some dogs and
• 11:13
  Speaker 6: our guys beat that strikeout record, which is pretty cool.
• 11:17
  Speaker 6: But you know, it really comes down to strikeouts don't
• 11:20
  Speaker 6: matter anymore, and that's the hitter's mentality.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: It's all or nothing.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: All right, We're gonna take a quick break for word
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: from our sponsors and we come back. We'll have more
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: from Mike Butcher. The former Angels pitching.
• 11:30
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  Speaker 1: And Welcome back to Halo Territory with Mike Butcher, Mark Trumbo,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: and Mike fi Giovanna. I believe Mark Trumbo has the
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: next question.
• 12:43
  Speaker 7: Well, it's one topic that we've talked about a lot,
• 12:45
  Speaker 7: especially with the current Halo team. Or short starts five
• 12:50
  Speaker 7: innings or less puts a lot of strain on that bullpen.
• 12:54
  Speaker 7: How with the young pitchers do they I mean, as
• 12:59
  Speaker 7: far as you advice you would give a younger pitcher
• 13:01
  Speaker 7: or even you know, a major league pitcher that's struggling
• 13:04
  Speaker 7: to go deeper into the games. Trying to combine the
• 13:07
  Speaker 7: stuff getting grades. I think that's one of the things
• 13:09
  Speaker 7: that can be tough too. They're graded at every single outing.
• 13:13
  Speaker 7: Every pitch is graded, you know, and you're looking at
• 13:16
  Speaker 7: a numerical Hey this is good, this isn't so good,
• 13:20
  Speaker 7: and then probably trying to maximize it, keep up with
• 13:23
  Speaker 7: it all the while trying to you know, get your
• 13:26
  Speaker 7: team deep into games spring training especially open my eyes
• 13:30
  Speaker 7: towards the end, guys, you know when I was totally
• 13:33
  Speaker 7: out of shape, I'm seeing their best breaking balls early
• 13:35
  Speaker 7: in camp and I was like, well, thank you.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: You know, I'll take that. But you know you're.
• 13:41
  Speaker 7: Liable to see all three pitches if the guy asked,
• 13:43
  Speaker 7: you know, usually most starters have three in the first
• 13:45
  Speaker 7: at bat. The guys that I faced that I always
• 13:48
  Speaker 7: thought were the best, we're going to show you that
• 13:50
  Speaker 7: third pitch until maybe the third at bat, and they
• 13:52
  Speaker 7: were going to get by with their fastball for as
• 13:55
  Speaker 7: long as they could. Do you have any thoughts on
• 13:56
  Speaker 7: the way, I guess that's changed. And you know how
• 14:00
  Speaker 7: young You know the instruction might apply to a younger
• 14:02
  Speaker 7: pitcher that's trying to find his way.
• 14:05
  Speaker 6: Well, I mean you answered it in your question, which
• 14:07
  Speaker 6: is which is perfect?
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: And that you know? And I mean that with you know,
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: all sincerity.
• 14:13
  Speaker 6: It's like, I look at if I'm going to learn
• 14:17
  Speaker 6: how to get a hitter out, I'm gonna listen to
• 14:19
  Speaker 6: a hitter. And if I'm the pitcher and I'm showing
• 14:22
  Speaker 6: my first three pitches, I'm throwing a fastball, curve ball,
• 14:25
  Speaker 6: and a change up to the first hitter of the game,
• 14:28
  Speaker 6: and I'm showing every hitter all my pitches early on.
• 14:33
  Speaker 6: I have nothing to go to later in the game
• 14:36
  Speaker 6: to get through the batting order the third time. So
• 14:40
  Speaker 6: all this information that's out there, like this guy gets hit,
• 14:43
  Speaker 6: you know, he doesn't do well. After he's recorded the
• 14:45
  Speaker 6: fifteenth out or the sixteenth out, he starts getting hammered.
• 14:48
  Speaker 6: It's because he's shown every hitter all he has, and
• 14:53
  Speaker 6: all of our guys from the majority. And I think
• 14:56
  Speaker 6: that trumm you'd probably agree, is that we would hold
• 14:59
  Speaker 6: on to pitches as long as we could until we
• 15:02
  Speaker 6: needed them. Weaver might not throw a change up until
• 15:05
  Speaker 6: the third or fourth fifth inning unless he was in trouble,
• 15:08
  Speaker 6: and then that would be his pitch to kind of
• 15:10
  Speaker 6: get him out of the game or get him out
• 15:12
  Speaker 6: of a jam.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: So we tried not to show all of our pitches
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: too early. I went back as a.
• 15:18
  Speaker 6: Consultant with the Angels in twenty twenty I think it's
• 15:23
  Speaker 6: twenty twenty two.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: And when I was watching.
• 15:28
  Speaker 6: A lot of games, I'm sitting there in back of
• 15:30
  Speaker 6: home play with a bunch of scouts and they're talking like, man,
• 15:33
  Speaker 6: this guy, we're talking about his stuff and this and that,
• 15:35
  Speaker 6: and I'm like, it's got no chance to get out
• 15:38
  Speaker 6: of the third inning or fourth inning, Like, why do
• 15:40
  Speaker 6: you say that? And I go, everybody has seen every
• 15:43
  Speaker 6: single pitch that he has. And then there was two
• 15:46
  Speaker 6: guys that I watched, JT. Realmuto and Yadier Molina. Those
• 15:50
  Speaker 6: are the only two guys that I saw in all
• 15:54
  Speaker 6: the games that I saw that year that would hold
• 15:57
  Speaker 6: on to pitches and their pitches staffs did pretty well.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: They also did one other thing really really well.
• 16:02
  Speaker 6: They would show at least one pitch inside off the
• 16:05
  Speaker 6: plate one time through the order at least. And that
• 16:10
  Speaker 6: means a let doesn't have to be a fastball. It
• 16:12
  Speaker 6: could be a curve ball off the plate, to slider
• 16:14
  Speaker 6: off the plate, cutter, could it be could even be
• 16:17
  Speaker 6: like a Zach Granky change up that he would fade
• 16:20
  Speaker 6: in off the plate to a right handed hitter.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: He was really good at doing that.
• 16:24
  Speaker 6: But if you can do that generally speaking, and I
• 16:27
  Speaker 6: know this for a fact, if I can drop a
• 16:29
  Speaker 6: hitter's slugging percentage by one hundred and ninety points, I
• 16:33
  Speaker 6: have a good chance of getting that guy out. And
• 16:36
  Speaker 6: that's what pitching inside does. Doesn't have to be up
• 16:38
  Speaker 6: and end, doesn't have to be always a fastball, but
• 16:41
  Speaker 6: it's real, it's real information, and it worked and it
• 16:45
  Speaker 6: does work. But you know, I think it's because hitters
• 16:49
  Speaker 6: see all your pitches. That's why these guys don't go
• 16:51
  Speaker 6: deep into the game.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Put you in your nine years as Angels pitching coach,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: the stuff consistently ranked among the league's best in eer, whip,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: strikeout to walk ratio. What do you attribute that sustain
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: success too? Is it sort of a staff culture, Was
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: it scouting preparation routines, anything something else?
• 17:12
  Speaker 6: Maybe, Well, other than I'm just the best pitching coach
• 17:17
  Speaker 6: in the history of the game. I'm just kidding, no,
• 17:22
  Speaker 6: just because I think we scouted very well. You know,
• 17:27
  Speaker 6: a coach is as good as his players, and I
• 17:29
  Speaker 6: truly mean that. I mean I look at the guys
• 17:31
  Speaker 6: that have had on our staff, and they were all
• 17:34
  Speaker 6: they all had tremendous amount of ability, and they had
• 17:36
  Speaker 6: success in the past as well, whether it was high
• 17:38
  Speaker 6: school or college or or or free agencies. But I
• 17:44
  Speaker 6: believe it was a mentality that we had that we
• 17:47
  Speaker 6: like that Mike Sosha had as well. I mean, it's
• 17:51
  Speaker 6: great to be a pitching coach with a guy former
• 17:53
  Speaker 6: catcher that had so much knowledge and wisdom and was
• 17:59
  Speaker 6: a and could articulate it to not only me, but
• 18:02
  Speaker 6: to the pitchers and our position players.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, I just think.
• 18:06
  Speaker 6: That the reason why we had success is because guys
• 18:09
  Speaker 6: bought into winning. Guys got bought into going as deep
• 18:13
  Speaker 6: as you can in the game. And guys knew that
• 18:15
  Speaker 6: they had to train a different way to go deep
• 18:18
  Speaker 6: into the game, and they would generally get really upset
• 18:20
  Speaker 6: if we pulled them out too early in their mind.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: So our guys wanted to fight to get to the
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: ninth inning.
• 18:26
  Speaker 6: And we never believed and I would always say this,
• 18:28
  Speaker 6: our guys six because it was always six innings three
• 18:31
  Speaker 6: runs or less is a quality start.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: I'm like, guys, that's that's that's that's not where we
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: want to be. We want to be seven, eight to nine.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: So you got to dig down deep and find a
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: way to get to the seventh, eighth, and ninth in
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: and to give our team a chance to win. And
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: when we had and we had a good bullpen.
• 18:44
  Speaker 6: So I think the mentality that we had the scouts,
• 18:48
  Speaker 6: that goddess of players.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: I think our evaluations were on point.
• 18:52
  Speaker 6: Our teams played well together, and it was it was
• 18:57
  Speaker 6: a Trump could say, I mean, I think it is
• 19:00
  Speaker 6: a pretty close knit group of guys that we had
• 19:02
  Speaker 6: that wanted to win games, and that was our main
• 19:06
  Speaker 6: priority as a win today win now.
• 19:10
  Speaker 7: Yeah. Absolutely, we had a number of guys well you
• 19:15
  Speaker 7: don't really realize at the time, especially as a young
• 19:17
  Speaker 7: player because this is all you know, but completely spoiled
• 19:22
  Speaker 7: with Weave. Dan Zach was in the rotation CJ later on.
• 19:27
  Speaker 7: But all of these guys you had an above average
• 19:30
  Speaker 7: chance to get you deep.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: Into the game and win the game.
• 19:34
  Speaker 7: When Jared pitched on a day game, we were winning
• 19:37
  Speaker 7: that game, especially pitching in Anaheim, and the Dick Nicker
• 19:41
  Speaker 7: was my favorite pitch.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, absolutely, yeah.
• 19:45
  Speaker 7: Yeah, we've already said it on the show, so oh yeah,
• 19:48
  Speaker 7: I can't forget it. A lot of the Oakland days
• 19:50
  Speaker 7: went down, you know, the arms out straight three.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: I guess you answered part of.
• 19:55
  Speaker 7: The question I was going to ask about as working
• 19:59
  Speaker 7: in with Soosh, But one of the things that I
• 20:03
  Speaker 7: just can't get away from as a former hitter, what's
• 20:06
  Speaker 7: happened to down and away and the emphasis on down
• 20:10
  Speaker 7: and away strikes. Dan was one of the absolute best
• 20:13
  Speaker 7: at it, as were almost all of the good ones.
• 20:17
  Speaker 7: You go up there as a young hitter, I'm looking
• 20:20
  Speaker 7: to jump on them, whether it's sures or whatever, and
• 20:24
  Speaker 7: they steal strike one when I'm ready to hit. And
• 20:26
  Speaker 7: I think a big part of it is that's just
• 20:28
  Speaker 7: not something you can do anything with. I see a
• 20:31
  Speaker 7: lot of guys hack at it these days and they
• 20:32
  Speaker 7: try and pull it, so good luck to them. But
• 20:36
  Speaker 7: it just seems to me like a something that every
• 20:39
  Speaker 7: pitcher would want in their repertoire, most pictures would want.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: Would you agree with that one hundred percent? I mean,
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: we were always taught, you know, what's your go to pitch,
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: what pitch can you land for strike you know?
• 20:51
  Speaker 6: Or which pitch can you safely go to that's against
• 20:55
  Speaker 6: or not in a nitrozone for a for a hitter.
• 20:58
  Speaker 6: And or I told you before, like the do not
• 21:01
  Speaker 6: disturb sign, I mean, trump, you're probably looking for something
• 21:03
  Speaker 6: middle in early in the count to absolutely crush, and
• 21:08
  Speaker 6: I want to stay away from your nitrozone. I mean
• 21:10
  Speaker 6: that that's your do not disturb zone.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: If I go in there, I know there's a good
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: chance that things going five hundred feet. And so.
• 21:19
  Speaker 6: Our emphasis in spring training from day one after the season,
• 21:24
  Speaker 6: we'd say, hey, listen, let's come in here. We're going
• 21:26
  Speaker 6: to dot down in a way. Down in a way
• 21:28
  Speaker 6: still and should still should be a huge part of
• 21:31
  Speaker 6: the game. But today's game is really up and down
• 21:35
  Speaker 6: and throw it as hard as you can, and that's and.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: Guys are swinging at it. That's what blows me away.
• 21:39
  Speaker 6: It's just like they're swinging at pitches that are at
• 21:41
  Speaker 6: their neck and so they're getting by with up and
• 21:45
  Speaker 6: down but not so much down.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: But I agree, yeah, down in a way is kind
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: of a lost art.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: Hey, we're gonna take one more quick break for a
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: word from our sponsors. We'll be right back with more
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: Halo territory.
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• 22:59
  Speaker 1: And welcome back to Halo Territory, Mark Trumbo, Mike Di Gievanna,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: and Mike Butcher, the former Angel pitching coach. Butch several
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: young pitchers, including Garrett Richards, Tyler Skaggs, Hector Santiago, Andrew
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: Heaney came up and improved under your watch. Which of
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: these developments for you is maybe either most rewarding or
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: what adjustments or metal work helped these guys succeed?
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, that group right there.
• 23:28
  Speaker 6: We initiated a program where I got to select and
• 23:34
  Speaker 6: I used our scouts and our player development guys as
• 23:36
  Speaker 6: well our top pitching guys in the organization to see.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: How we could help elevate.
• 23:44
  Speaker 6: Get them to the big leagues faster and make them
• 23:49
  Speaker 6: feel comfortable around an intimidating situation, which is being in
• 23:52
  Speaker 6: the big leagues. So part of the intimidation is a
• 23:57
  Speaker 6: lot of young players don't know the big league coaching
• 24:01
  Speaker 6: staff at all, whether it's me social or at the time,
• 24:04
  Speaker 6: Hatch or whoever, and so it's kind of intimidating for
• 24:07
  Speaker 6: a guy to walk into a clubhouse and think that
• 24:08
  Speaker 6: they have to impress right away. So I wanted these
• 24:11
  Speaker 6: guys to get to know us early on, or at
• 24:13
  Speaker 6: least to get to know me. So we brought I
• 24:15
  Speaker 6: think it was nine or twelve, I can't remember the number,
• 24:18
  Speaker 6: to be honesto of our top guys in brought them
• 24:21
  Speaker 6: out the tempee and we ran a camp called it
• 24:25
  Speaker 6: Champ Camp, but basically it was to kind of get
• 24:30
  Speaker 6: guys a little bit of thicker skin and admit that
• 24:33
  Speaker 6: they're good in front of their peers, which is really
• 24:35
  Speaker 6: hard to do sometimes and broke the ice.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: And I brought several.
• 24:43
  Speaker 6: Active pictures at the time to come in and talk
• 24:45
  Speaker 6: as well, and we did a lot of discussions. We
• 24:49
  Speaker 6: did work on the field, running that type of you know, running,
• 24:54
  Speaker 6: throwing bullpens, pfps and what have you. But we did
• 24:58
  Speaker 6: a lot of time just inside I called the classroom,
• 25:01
  Speaker 6: I guess in the clubhouse. I just sat there and
• 25:03
  Speaker 6: talked baseball, and I thought that was one of the
• 25:06
  Speaker 6: best things. Out of those guys, who do I think, man,
• 25:10
  Speaker 6: I think Garrett Richards learned a lot.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: I think they all did from each other, not just me,
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: but to put.
• 25:22
  Speaker 6: One guy out there, I don't know even even Patrick
• 25:25
  Speaker 6: Corbin was part of that group. Jordan Walden was part
• 25:27
  Speaker 6: of that group, Garrett. I mean, there was just a
• 25:30
  Speaker 6: lot of really good guys, and I think that they
• 25:32
  Speaker 6: all benefited, benefited from it. Skagg's benefited from it.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: It was just, you know, we only did it one year.
• 25:43
  Speaker 6: I thought it was I don't know why we didn't
• 25:46
  Speaker 6: do it again, but it was just it was an
• 25:48
  Speaker 6: impressive group of individuals that all made it to Every
• 25:52
  Speaker 6: single guy in that group made it to the big leagues,
• 25:56
  Speaker 6: which was pretty cool, pretty cool.
• 26:00
  Speaker 7: I think Gee, rich got some feedback when I took
• 26:02
  Speaker 7: him off the top of the batters I earlier camp
• 26:07
  Speaker 7: how you doing here?
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: G money?
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, wind was blown out that day, probably in tempe.
• 26:17
  Speaker 6: Let's let's not forget. I had a guy named Gary
• 26:21
  Speaker 6: Buckles called me up one day. Trump's lies gonna light
• 26:25
  Speaker 6: up here and he's like, Butch, he goes, you got
• 26:26
  Speaker 6: to see this guy, Mark Trumbo. He goes, I know
• 26:29
  Speaker 6: you guys are looking at him as a as a hitter,
• 26:31
  Speaker 6: but this dude can flat out pitch. And I'm like,
• 26:36
  Speaker 6: what's he got. He's like ninety five with a nasty slider.
• 26:39
  Speaker 6: He goes nasty and I'm like, okay. The next thing
• 26:43
  Speaker 6: that I hear, you know, Eddie Bain and but he's
• 26:46
  Speaker 6: coming in and it was Jeter Hines' dad, Bruce Hines
• 26:50
  Speaker 6: comes in and says, he goes, this guy can hit,
• 26:53
  Speaker 6: and Hatch is like, this guy's.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: A hitter, but you're not going to get him on
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: the and uh.
• 26:58
  Speaker 6: After watching him take VP the first time, I'm like, yeah,
• 27:01
  Speaker 6: that's it's this Trump had a different sound more than
• 27:05
  Speaker 6: anybody else I've been around, and you know, we've been
• 27:07
  Speaker 6: around some pretty big names in the Angels organization and
• 27:10
  Speaker 6: other teams as well. When the ball jumped off of
• 27:13
  Speaker 6: Trumbo's bat, it was incredibly special. He could back spin
• 27:17
  Speaker 6: a ball better than anybody I've ever seen.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: Wow. So yeah, when you say.
• 27:24
  Speaker 7: It was, I mean it's spring training. But I you know,
• 27:28
  Speaker 7: to his credit, I think he tightened me up in
• 27:30
  Speaker 7: the next of that. But good times, and yes we
• 27:34
  Speaker 7: covered it. The Angels has recently drafted a two way
• 27:39
  Speaker 7: player that they're going to start out in the outfield.
• 27:41
  Speaker 7: My situation, I failed my physical so as far as well,
• 27:44
  Speaker 7: you never got to see me on the mound. It
• 27:46
  Speaker 7: was a pretty short answer. It was a pivot and
• 27:49
  Speaker 7: fortunately it kind of worked out. I got a question,
• 27:54
  Speaker 7: and it's always fascinated to me. I never was at
• 27:57
  Speaker 7: the tables. But let's say with you Weave and mathis
• 28:02
  Speaker 7: huddling before a game going over the reports. I kind
• 28:06
  Speaker 7: of can guess what you guys were talking about as
• 28:08
  Speaker 7: far as you know, going through the lineup, maybe some
• 28:10
  Speaker 7: of the extra guys. But what does that look like
• 28:13
  Speaker 7: today in today's game? How much different is that? Is
• 28:18
  Speaker 7: there a computer in a computer tech sitting there with
• 28:21
  Speaker 7: you with some three D I'm exaggerating, but you know,
• 28:26
  Speaker 7: I have to assume that the reports previously were pitching
• 28:29
  Speaker 7: to the pitcher's strengths, probably a couple locations, but keeping
• 28:33
  Speaker 7: it simple, I know on the hitting side too, the reports.
• 28:36
  Speaker 7: You lose these guys pretty quickly if you get two
• 28:39
  Speaker 7: into the weeds and players like things kept fairly simple.
• 28:43
  Speaker 7: But with all the analytics and everything today, is it
• 28:46
  Speaker 7: kind of tough to formulate scouting reports or do the
• 28:50
  Speaker 7: scouting reports?
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: And all the information make it much.
• 28:52
  Speaker 7: Easier to pitch against these hitters that as you said,
• 28:56
  Speaker 7: we'll swing at the rosenbag on the first pitch of
• 28:59
  Speaker 7: the game.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: I do think the information is good.
• 29:04
  Speaker 6: I think it could be information overload, so you know,
• 29:09
  Speaker 6: I see, I've seen the Evolution're right, So it's like
• 29:12
  Speaker 6: you know before it was, and each picture was different.
• 29:15
  Speaker 6: Some guys wanted way more information. Some guys wanted as
• 29:18
  Speaker 6: little information as possible.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: They just they were going to go out there and
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: do their thing. Like Jared Weaver, for instance, wanted only
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: what he could do. He didn't care if.
• 29:29
  Speaker 6: The guy couldn't hit a fastball in for instance as
• 29:35
  Speaker 6: an example, and he's like, I know I can go
• 29:37
  Speaker 6: down away get this guy out, or I could throw
• 29:39
  Speaker 6: changeups down away or change up stands or whatever.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: He can do so much with the ball, So he
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: just wanted.
• 29:44
  Speaker 6: His him and mathis and I would be mostly pitching
• 29:49
  Speaker 6: to his strengths, and then I would use the data
• 29:54
  Speaker 6: and say, Okay, this is where the punch out is
• 29:56
  Speaker 6: if you need a punch out, if you if you
• 29:59
  Speaker 6: you know, or this is where the guy's nitro zone is.
• 30:01
  Speaker 6: Let's stay away from that one unless you have to
• 30:04
  Speaker 6: go in there. So everybody was a little bit different.
• 30:08
  Speaker 6: I go to Zach Grinky, especially not just with the Angels,
• 30:11
  Speaker 6: but mostly with the Diamondbacks, and Zach wanted a lot
• 30:15
  Speaker 6: of information, So I would get on the computer myself
• 30:17
  Speaker 6: and pull out all the information as well. Is this
• 30:20
  Speaker 6: guy going to give you a first pickureve ball, first strike,
• 30:22
  Speaker 6: he has a swing at one and two hundred that
• 30:24
  Speaker 6: bats is this guy?
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: You know, where's the punch out? Is he an up
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: and away guy?
• 30:30
  Speaker 6: And Zach you know that like random ritchik for instance,
• 30:33
  Speaker 6: and one two counts in this particular night, you know,
• 30:38
  Speaker 6: it's like the sky report is like if you throw
• 30:41
  Speaker 6: him a two strike slider, that's where his power is.
• 30:43
  Speaker 6: But a two strike fastball up and away is going
• 30:46
  Speaker 6: to be a punch out. And it was a big gap,
• 30:49
  Speaker 6: and Zach's like, I can't get the ball up there.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: It's not my strength. But he wanted the data and
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: you know, so he throws a one to one slider,
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: he swings by a foot and a hat and misses
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: it by a foot and a half. Comes back with
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: a one two slider, best command picture with the with
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: the Diamondbacks and leaves it about six inches off the ground,
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: and rich a kid's a bomb left field and mean
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: hooked it, and you know there's he hit it.
• 31:13
  Speaker 6: But I mean, I trusted Zach to throw the pitch.
• 31:16
  Speaker 6: He said you couldn't go up and away. But you know,
• 31:20
  Speaker 6: some guys want a lot of data.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Some guys don't want a lot of data.
• 31:22
  Speaker 6: I think in a lot of times, what I hear
• 31:23
  Speaker 6: now is that they're just putting all the information packets
• 31:26
  Speaker 6: on on your your chair, and it's like go get them.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: And you lose feel that way, you're not pitching to
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: your strengths.
• 31:36
  Speaker 6: I can talk it for hours about that, by the way,
• 31:39
  Speaker 6: about how they make these these game plans, and those
• 31:44
  Speaker 6: game plans are.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: Somewhat true. It's mostly what the organization thinks that they're
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: gonna that you should do, and if that plan fails,
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: they'll switch it up. It's no different than me going
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: out there and have success all of a sudden, I'm
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: doing the same thing over and over again, repetitively.
• 32:04
  Speaker 6: Trumbell goes up there and goes, this is how this
• 32:06
  Speaker 6: guy likes to pitch and sits on stuff and then
• 32:09
  Speaker 6: crushes me.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: Well, I have to make an adjustment. It's just called
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: a different name now.
• 32:13
  Speaker 6: It's like spin rate and backspin in the baseball, vert
• 32:17
  Speaker 6: horizontal movement, whatever, it's all the same thing.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: Sync. It's just all Hey, I put my name on that.
• 32:23
  Speaker 6: This is who I am now, and it's all good information.
• 32:27
  Speaker 6: Don't get me wrong, I want to sound like I'm
• 32:29
  Speaker 6: a hater. It's just the game is the same game
• 32:33
  Speaker 6: with too much information. And if you have that much information,
• 32:37
  Speaker 6: especially as a hitter, in my opinion, you're gonna have
• 32:41
  Speaker 6: just clutter. You have no clarity where you can. You
• 32:44
  Speaker 6: don't want to think in the box. You want to react.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: And when I hear guys sit there and go I
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: was sitting on a break the ball because there was
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: a probability of him throwing at eight percent in that count.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: And I'm sitting on a break the ball and I
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: get a fastball. Dude, I am so I mean, I
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: have no chance to hit.
• 33:03
  Speaker 6: But if you're sitting dead red right and you get
• 33:06
  Speaker 6: a slider or a curveball or something off speed, you
• 33:09
  Speaker 6: got a chance to fight that off. And that's what
• 33:12
  Speaker 6: is missing in today's game. It's an all or nothing swing.
• 33:15
  Speaker 6: It's a sellout based on the information that these guys
• 33:18
  Speaker 6: are getting. And I think it's easier for a picture
• 33:22
  Speaker 6: because we can expose.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: That a little bit differently, especially if I am a
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: pitcher or my staff is pitching to their strengths.
• 33:29
  Speaker 6: I know where the punchouts are. I highlighted it back then.
• 33:34
  Speaker 6: I made my own Excel program. I have my own charts.
• 33:37
  Speaker 6: I had a color coded I had dots on it,
• 33:39
  Speaker 6: I had swings and misses. I could literally go over
• 33:42
  Speaker 6: a lineup and tell you what every single hitter and
• 33:44
  Speaker 6: it drove me niccuse I felt like rain Man what
• 33:47
  Speaker 6: they hit on every pitch, fasketball, curveball, slider, change up,
• 33:52
  Speaker 6: and where their chase percentages were, and that do not
• 33:55
  Speaker 6: disturb was That was my do not disturb zone.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: Do not go on there unless you have to. Wow,
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: it's relatively simple.
• 34:02
  Speaker 6: It's relatively simple, and it was easy, but I think
• 34:05
  Speaker 6: the hitters have it really hard at their guessing that
• 34:09
  Speaker 6: much to sit on pitches of probability.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: My favorite to my favorite pregame prep slash scouting story.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: Laddie Guerrera Sr. A Hall of Famer. All you wanted
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: to know was was that pitcher right handed or left handed?
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: He'd give him the name of Ishmael Veldees. Oh the righty,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: the righty. That's all you wanted. Nothing else, literally, nothing else,
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: pure reaction hitter, pure field hitter. And I seem to
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: work out for Vlattie. Did you vote for him for
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame? By the way, I was not
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: allowed to vote then my paper, The l I just
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: having left The Times, I finally got my first Hall
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: of Fame vote in like twenty five years this past year.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: So glad to be back. But I would have voted
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: for voted for Vladdy. Why you don't think he's a
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: Hall of Famer?
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: Recent edition?
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: We don't want to get into this.
• 35:03
  Speaker 7: Then you're you're an interesting one.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: I won't wax on.
• 35:11
  Speaker 7: But he likes the two thousand and two Angels and
• 35:14
  Speaker 7: nobody else, and like to address.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: That on another show.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: Butch last baseball O lated question.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: We talked about this already a lot, but with so
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: much emphasis on advanced analytics and scouting reports. Is there
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: still room for the traditional scouts? I and feel especially
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: are their aspects of pitching evaluation that you believe can
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: st still be captured by data.
• 35:42
  Speaker 6: Absolutely, there's too many guys out there with great baseball
• 35:48
  Speaker 6: minds that are tremendous evaluators, that know how to measure
• 35:52
  Speaker 6: what's in the the brain, the heart, the gut, the cajones,
• 35:58
  Speaker 6: all the intangibles that a computer or you know, is
• 36:02
  Speaker 6: not going to pick up on. And at the end
• 36:05
  Speaker 6: of the day, those things matter. I need to know
• 36:09
  Speaker 6: if a guy is a winner, or if he's just
• 36:15
  Speaker 6: all in it for himself, how did he grow up?
• 36:18
  Speaker 6: All those things are kind of lost right now. I
• 36:22
  Speaker 6: had I can't say the organization that called me recently
• 36:25
  Speaker 6: about a very high pick. I had three phone calls total,
• 36:31
  Speaker 6: about four or five hours worth of doing their background research,
• 36:35
  Speaker 6: and it was mostly talking about everything outside of a computer.
• 36:43
  Speaker 6: And I thought that was very impressive and they and
• 36:48
  Speaker 6: they drafted that guy And anyways, I wish I could
• 36:52
  Speaker 6: say more.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: I just don't want to sell out.
• 36:55
  Speaker 6: It had a couple of teams called me, But anyways, Yeah,
• 36:59
  Speaker 6: those things matter, those scouts matter. I think they're a
• 37:01
  Speaker 6: huge part of the game and it's unfortunate they're getting
• 37:04
  Speaker 6: run out by a computer. And uh, you know, it's
• 37:09
  Speaker 6: just that's the way these front offices are run right now,
• 37:12
  Speaker 6: and until it changes, it's going to be the same thing.
• 37:16
  Speaker 6: And I think it's from what I'm hearing now, it's
• 37:19
  Speaker 6: starting to swing back a little bit the other way.
• 37:21
  Speaker 6: And I just don't know how far that pendulum it
• 37:24
  Speaker 6: has swung back the other way, you know.
• 37:27
  Speaker 7: So awfully Yeah, cryptic there with the but I understand
• 37:33
  Speaker 7: why and I do so like the Angels. Mike Mike
• 37:37
  Speaker 7: Maddox really stood out when we they announced the staff
• 37:41
  Speaker 7: this year, a veteran baseball staff, a lot of guys
• 37:45
  Speaker 7: with a lot of experience in all aspects. It hasn't
• 37:46
  Speaker 7: worked out that well, but it just seems like left
• 37:51
  Speaker 7: and right, you know that the pitching coaches getting higher,
• 37:54
  Speaker 7: the hitting coaches, you've never heard of these guys, Where
• 37:56
  Speaker 7: did they come from? Usually some product of a drive
• 38:00
  Speaker 7: line facility or or otherwise. Some of these guys are
• 38:02
  Speaker 7: doing great things too, but it just is a tough thing.
• 38:07
  Speaker 7: I think speaking the lingo is tough too.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: I was talking to.
• 38:10
  Speaker 7: Hank Konga recently, as with the Orioles and team, the team,
• 38:14
  Speaker 7: they'll use different analytical terms and vert and all these things.
• 38:18
  Speaker 7: And you're right about that. The only question I had,
• 38:22
  Speaker 7: and it's just kind of a goofy one, but I've wondered,
• 38:24
  Speaker 7: I've never got any a pinch hitter comes up? Why
• 38:27
  Speaker 7: the heck do you like you being pitching? Coaches have
• 38:30
  Speaker 7: to go to the mound with some random you know,
• 38:34
  Speaker 7: not if it's a fopper, that's fine, but it's everybody.
• 38:37
  Speaker 7: You gotta make the mound visit. It's some light hitting lefty.
• 38:41
  Speaker 7: You know, it's just a it's a fun question. But
• 38:45
  Speaker 7: is it just a refresh like everyone's mind and make
• 38:47
  Speaker 7: sure there's not some big mistake made.
• 38:53
  Speaker 6: Yeah, generally, generally, I think our guys were probable enough.
• 38:57
  Speaker 6: Hopefully I wasn't running out there all the time unless
• 38:59
  Speaker 6: I was too.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: Maybe not you.
• 39:01
  Speaker 7: I play for very a lot of people, but just
• 39:03
  Speaker 7: they watched the game and it's like there they go.
• 39:05
  Speaker 7: You know, I'm like this, Yeah, what's scary, like like
• 39:09
  Speaker 7: part of the game.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, in Arizona, I was actually told to go out
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: too the mound like eight and I'm like, our guys
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: know this guy down and away bounce the breaker. I mean,
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: but you know he's.
• 39:25
  Speaker 6: A first pitch swinger or or or guy would just
• 39:28
  Speaker 6: look at me on the mountain, You're like, hey, I
• 39:29
  Speaker 6: need you right now, but boom, I'm out there. But
• 39:32
  Speaker 6: if they remembered how to get the guy out or
• 39:34
  Speaker 6: what this tent hitter was all about, I let him
• 39:36
  Speaker 6: do it, because why do I want to interrupt the
• 39:39
  Speaker 6: flow of the game number one or his you know,
• 39:42
  Speaker 6: if if if, if a if a pitcher is in
• 39:46
  Speaker 6: a groove.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: I don't want to I don't want to mess it up.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: I want to let him keep rolling. So that makes sense.
• 39:52
  Speaker 7: Last question, Abs, do you have any thoughts on that
• 39:55
  Speaker 7: that might be insightful or any opinions at all.
• 40:02
  Speaker 6: At first, my first thought was an automatic breaking system,
• 40:04
  Speaker 6: which I have on my truck.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: But I love that.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: I've used it, Abs. You know, I think it's uh.
• 40:17
  Speaker 6: I think fans like it more than anything else.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: I I I.
• 40:25
  Speaker 6: Think we try to computerize our game too much.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: It's going to be a very very boring game to watch.
• 40:32
  Speaker 6: And I've said this all along, even when we had
• 40:36
  Speaker 6: the shift going on.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: I know benefit of the picture, but it's like the NBA.
• 40:40
  Speaker 6: Going to the zone, and all of a sudden, you
• 40:42
  Speaker 6: go watch an NBA game and nobody could hit the
• 40:44
  Speaker 6: jumper from twenty feet out and the game became boring.
• 40:49
  Speaker 6: So then went back man demand and so I looked
• 40:53
  Speaker 6: at the shift as it modified zone and the game
• 40:56
  Speaker 6: got boring. You hit a rocket and you know it's
• 41:00
  Speaker 6: right at somebody, or you don't see the athletic play
• 41:03
  Speaker 6: of an Assie Smith or and Drawlts and Simmons where
• 41:06
  Speaker 6: you know the guy goes deep in a hole and
• 41:08
  Speaker 6: it makes those great plays. People want to see athleticism
• 41:11
  Speaker 6: when they go to game. It's exciting and all those things.
• 41:14
  Speaker 6: I kind of went off track, but abs I think
• 41:18
  Speaker 6: fans like to see the balls and strikes.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: I like the fact that if it's if it's a miscall.
• 41:27
  Speaker 6: That there's gonna be some excitement with an argument in
• 41:30
  Speaker 6: the game, an ejection or what have you. And also,
• 41:35
  Speaker 6: if a guy is continually bad, and we know who
• 41:39
  Speaker 6: those guys are, for sure, they should be demoted or
• 41:44
  Speaker 6: just released just like we are.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: And you can't protect everybody.
• 41:49
  Speaker 6: So if you're not good, and you're not a good umpire,
• 41:52
  Speaker 6: get out of the game. The game's got to get
• 41:54
  Speaker 6: you out, So this is a band aid for.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: Either. Yeah. I hate to say bad umpires, I mean,
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: but maybe bad training. Train better, right, train better, teach
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: them better, and see if we can have a better
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: system instead of a computer dictator everything. Pretty soon there's
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: gonna be bubbles around the bases and everything, and who
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: knows what's gonna happen.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: But now, well, Butch I mentioned you're still working with players.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: I'm glad to hear that. But you also have another
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: business out in the Phoenix area. I wanted to give
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: you a chance to plug that, especially for fans who
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: are going out to spring training next year and looking
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: for some good food.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: All right, Yeah, there's a few things I did outside
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: of baseball. I just never wanted to be controlled by
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: the game.
• 42:44
  Speaker 6: I felt like it was micro managed at the end
• 42:46
  Speaker 6: of my career, the last three years, i should say,
• 42:48
  Speaker 6: with the Diamondbacks, and I just wanted to get away
• 42:51
  Speaker 6: from all that and just do my own thing. I
• 42:52
  Speaker 6: was never afraid of my mind taking me into different places.
• 42:57
  Speaker 6: So the first thing it do is I patent. The
• 43:01
  Speaker 6: second thing I did is I started a wood fired
• 43:03
  Speaker 6: pizza business called the Pizza Butcher, which is a mobile
• 43:07
  Speaker 6: wood fired pizza unit. We were doing two to three
• 43:09
  Speaker 6: hundred pizzas a day at one time, and we do
• 43:14
  Speaker 6: mostly private events, corporate events. I'll do pop ups every
• 43:18
  Speaker 6: now and then as well, but we do very well.
• 43:20
  Speaker 6: We just got ranked top five pizzas in Arizona.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: And then I started a company with a group of
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: guys called high Door. It's a siular hydration company. Here
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: it is. It's a beautiful bottle. We will be launching
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: it's called high if you want to look at high
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: Door water dot com and have a little sneak peek
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: of what we're doing. But that's launching probably in the
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: next month, and that'll be in stores shortly thereafter.
• 43:48
  Speaker 6: And so it's a food grade plastic model, all that
• 43:53
  Speaker 6: good stuff. It's has one ingredient, which is water, and
• 43:57
  Speaker 6: it's it's phenomenal water.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: You guys are gonna have to try.
• 44:00
  Speaker 6: So when you guys come out here, hope you guys
• 44:01
  Speaker 6: come out here, just re train it with pizza and
• 44:04
  Speaker 6: get you guys some water.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: But you're gonna get You're gonna get Bianco's a run
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: for their money there.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: But you know it's funny. Is Uh.
• 44:12
  Speaker 6: I can tell you a story about him but it
• 44:15
  Speaker 6: would take a long time. But uh, he's he's amazing.
• 44:19
  Speaker 6: He makes amazing pizza. There's a lot of really good
• 44:22
  Speaker 6: pizza out here. I'm not saying that's the best pizza.
• 44:24
  Speaker 6: I was just happy that I was ranked top five
• 44:26
  Speaker 6: in Arizona. But there's a lot of really good pizza
• 44:29
  Speaker 6: out here, and uh, just happy to be recognized.
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: Cool one final plug. You can shop the twenty twenty
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: six All Star collection now at the new look foul
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: Territory Shop dot com. The drop features every All Star,
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: including Mike Trout's Philly homecoming. Keep an eye out for
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: more officially licensed geared throughout the rest of the season
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: in playoffs at foul Territory Shop dot com. And you
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: can also shop for Halo Territory merchandise at Halo Territoryshop
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: dot com all sorts of this good stuff, t shirts, hoodies,
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: coffee mugs, and onesies. And I know I got a
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: grandchild do any minute now, and I'm certainly gonna get
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: him or her one. So that's gonna do it for
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: us today on Halo Territory. Mike Butcher, great to catch.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: Up with you.
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us. Mark Trumbo as well,
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: please like and subscribe, and we'll see you next time
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: on Halo Territory.