Latest / Motherhood Uncut / Taking a leap towards complete fulfillment, with Ashley Wick, Certified Transformational Leadership Coach | Motherhood Uncut Podcast | Season 5 Episode 2

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Taking a leap towards complete fulfillment, with Ashley Wick, Certified Transformational Leadership Coach | Motherhood Uncut Podcast | Season 5 Episode 2 · Motherhood Uncut

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, it's Kate Kripke and welcome to the Motherhood Uncut podcast.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Here we are committed to making sure that nobody ever needs to mother alone.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: We bring to you wherever you are the conversations that we need to have to survive and thrive in motherhood, but so often keep silent about the things that make us laugh, cry, celebrate, rage about, and reflect on.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: The things that bring tears of sorrow and tears of joy, confusion and wonder, fear and gratitude.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: We want you to feel good about your mothering and to feel supported along the often clunky adventure of life as a mom.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: In Motherhood Uncut, you can expect eye-opening conversations with experts in parenting, mental health, and women's health, as well as moving and inspiring conversations with moms who are out there paving the way for their children.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: You'll likely agree with some of what you hear and also disagree with some of what you hear.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: All we ask is that you come with an open mind and boatloads of compassion for yourself and mothers everywhere.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Pull up a chair, pour yourself a glass of wine or a cup of tea, put on your walking or running shoes, turn up the volume in your car during your commute or the pickup line at school.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Just show up.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: And Mother of Thust, we have got you.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: The One Clock is built all on wake science.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: What is the best way for your nervous system to wake up in the morning?
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: And with the help of researchers, Grammy Award-winning musicians, and a whole lot of beautiful style, this one clock is a sure way to get you back on track towards health and wellness.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: You can learn more at oneclock.co.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm pretty sure that most of you listeners out there have some itch to do something that you haven't quite brought the courage forward to do yet.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe some big goal, some big leap that might be something like return to work or take a step up in your career or start your own business, maybe, or maybe it's something that's not related to work, but is other, you know, passion and purpose driven.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: So to join a board or to create a new community, or maybe it's about your own health and well-being.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: If there's a big change you're wanting to make and a big leap, come and apply for our 12-month program, Take the Leap, because we're gonna get you there.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Everything you need to know about the science of change and limiting beliefs and how to expand your potential and how to move through failure and how to really stay on course so that your life can be exactly what you want it to be.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Go ahead and apply at the link in the show notes.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: And after you apply, we're gonna offer you a thermomet 30-minute free consult so we can talk with you about whether or not this program is a fit for you.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Come jump in.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Now is your chance.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: So welcome to the Motherhood Uncut Podcast, Ashley Wick.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: We are in a new season this season, and it's a season where Deb Rubin is stepping back a bit.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I get to show up and um, you know, bring in these great people to have conversations with and continue the real beauty of this podcast, which is really kind of muddling through, right?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: We like enter into unpredictability and uncertainty in these conversations, in these topics.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the beautiful reasons that you and I are talking today, Ash, is because we are partners in uh, we're both dear friends and also colleagues and partners in our support of women and mothers.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna be talking today about what it looks like and means to fully engage in life outside of motherhood.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: What does that look like?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: What are the questions?
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: What are the fears?
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: What are the curiosities?
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: What's the potential that comes with that?
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: And in a minute, I'm gonna ask you a few questions so that our listeners can know a little bit more about you, but I just want to let our listeners know that this is gonna be one of those weird in-and-out conversations where we have no notes in front of us, but we're gonna get real and we're gonna get raw.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: And hopefully we're also gonna become bring out some inspiring ideas in our listeners.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: So, Ashley Wick, I would love for you to introduce yourself.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: And here's what I want you to let our listeners know.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: I would love for you to introduce yourself, like just let us know who you are, how old are your kids, where do you live.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: Let us know a little about uh what the work you do outside of being a mom because that's where you and I overlap so much as well.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then um, we'll just take it from there.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: So um I live in Boulder, Colorado.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: I have two daughters who are six and eight.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: The eight-year-old seems like she's turning 20, 28 any day now.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: Very precocious.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I am a transformational leadership coach, and I work with high-achieving like you, women, who are wanting to feel more self-expressed and more visible and play a bigger game.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh tell us a little bit about what led you to this work you're doing now.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know you have a pretty interesting professional journey that's led you to this role of coach and mentor and leadership coach.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: So tell us how you got here.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, my career started in fashion of all places.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I was literally finishing the Devil Wears Prada on the plane as I flew to New York for my first job back in early 2000s.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and it was a wild ride, Kate.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I started working at Vogue and in the art department, and then I worked in-house at Diane von Furstenberg and a few other brands, and then one of my my early leaps actually was leaving an in-house role to start my own PR and marketing consultancy.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and I did that for a while, but then I had this kind of wild um, it was like a quarter life crisis where I realized that so much of my energy was spent trying to sell products, and it really didn't feel good to me anymore.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I had been turned on to uh coaching through this course curriculum called CTI.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I went in and I took a course, and it would like immediately grabbed me and hooked me.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: And what I realized was that I was so much more interested in the human element of building brands and ultimately leaders, and less interested in consumerism and marketing products, and you know, making people believe that they needed one more thing to feel good about themselves, uh, whether that be a handbag or a pair of jeans uh or you know, whatever was in that magazine.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: So what's interesting about where I am today, I think, is that um I've come full circle in a lot of ways because so much of my work as a coach now uh reinforces this idea that we are whole and complete as we are and don't need to be achieving, doing, having things, buying things in order uh to feel valuable.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I think one of the things that inspires me so much about your work, Ash, and where your sort of journey of from your from the early 2000s to today is that willingness to ask yourself the hard questions.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: You and I talk about this in our course Take the Leap all the time, but that willingness to like notice how you feel, because you're describing like it just didn't feel good to like notice how you feel, to ask yourself the questions, like what is within my integrity?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean, one question that our listeners are so used to because Deb and I I ask it all the time in the podcast is what part am I playing and the things that aren't working for me, which you and I talk about in our course as well.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: But there's that, like, oh, something's not feeling right in my life.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: What do I need to shift?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: And this idea of a leader, of being a leader, what does it look like to embody that leadership from the inside out and to promote that sense of badassness that like we can all have if we're willing to really ask ourselves the hard questions?
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: So so one of the I think where I'd like us to jump off right now has to do with that.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I think a lot of the a lot of our listeners are women who are mothers who may or may not have yet given themselves permission to embody the parts of themselves that the leadership parts of themselves that are not contained within the four walls of a home or a family and whatever constellation that looks like, right?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: And or they are doing that, but they're having a hard time understanding how to merge this sense of who they are in the larger world with who they are as a mother.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: And we started this conversation, and before recording, you you were giggling and you were trying to help me understand something about how this has played out for you as a mom.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I would love us to just jump in there.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: So you told me something really incredible before we started recording.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: You want to say again what you said?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: You were talking about your experience of being a mom from the very beginning of time of your motherhood journey.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know what's funny is as I'm thinking about this.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I had um my daughter eight years ago, and I think so much of you know our mothering journey is informed by our own mothers.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: And my mother worked uh throughout my childhood, and she worked in publishing as well.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: So in my mind, uh it never occurred to me not to work and not to have a really full life outside of motherhood.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember reading that famous Atlantic article by Anne Marine Slaughter.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Do you remember that?
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like women can't have it all.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, why not?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: We deserve to have it all.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: We can do this.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I gotta tell you, Kate, that got me into some trouble when I had Gigi because uh I there was a big part of me, like the boss CEO part of me that was committed to not having anything else change.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I wanted to go to parties and dinner parties and run every morning on the West Side Highway and whatever I was doing in New York at that time.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it didn't believe that I needed to shift or change in order to be a mom.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh so I'm coming at this question sort of in in reverse.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but but so I guess what I was saying is that um I had to really slow down.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: I it motherhood forced me to slow down, and um, I experienced some pretty serious postpartum anxiety after that.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: I um had some physical shifts that happened.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: I was just sharing that with Megan the other morning.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh I had a prolapse.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: No one talks about all the stuff that happens to you when you have babies.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about all that shit here.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, we have to talk about it.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: No one talks about incontinence or prolapse or any of that.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: But suffice it to say that I had a prolapse and I like it was a real identity crisis for me.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't run anymore.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know what to do when I couldn't run because I couldn't process anymore.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, I had a real come to Jesus after I had Gigi, but um but my goal was to find some semblance of a balance.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think that actually now as a coach living in Boulder, I have I've found that.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: And um my work is like integral to my happiness because it is so tied to my purpose.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: And without doing purposeful work in the world and helping be a catalyst for women to be their best selves and to help them make their work more visible in the world, um, I feel like I would like to lose an appendage.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: It feels a little bit like that.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's so interesting.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna come meet you at this beautiful spot for us to dig in deeper, but I'm gonna come at it from my experience from a little bit of another perspective because I was also raised by a full-time working mom who was a lawyer in New York City and really a pioneer breaking glass ceilings all over the place.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: When, you know, I grew up in the 70s and 80s, and she was uh she was a um path, I don't know what I can't think of the term.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: She was like paving paving path, right?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: And she was never around.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: And when I had kids, I was terrified to never be around.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: And there was a part of me, I mean, I tried to be around, and I was like, no, I am not cut out to be a full-time stay-at-home mom.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it's funny how we can sort of, of course, we learn to, you know, comparison does nothing for ever anybody.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: And some of us will find it more exhausting to imagine being home all the time with our children because of how hard and demanding that work feels.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: And some of us will feel like they can't even imagine working outside of the home because of how hard and demanding that version of work feels.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's no right or wrong, it's just these perspectives.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember when I had Kinley now 17 years ago and being like, I'm gonna be around more.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then I pretty quickly came to the same feeling you had, which is this isn't gonna work for me.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: I can't, I'm missing a part of myself.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I have also found a way of landing living in Boulder, Colorado, now Tokyo, but back to Boulder soon, where I can find that balance of appreciation for both sides of myself.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: But it's interesting what can get us there.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Where does our fear lie?
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and where does our where what are we drawn to?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: And what does it look like to actually recognize that as women leaders, women who are leaders, that we can find such beauty and tapping into our leadership, both at home and outside of the home and at work.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's really a dance.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: To dance.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's such a dance.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's um it feels like a boat tacking across a lake.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're like catching some wind here, and then you have to pivot and go this direction.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: And uh especially as your kids grow and change and shift themselves, you know, their needs of you are different.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: But as you were talking, it made me think about this concept of freedom.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like when I was in the trenches and not like in quotes, right, with my kids, yes, I was constantly seeking freedom and not terribly present.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was not the mom that wanted to get on the floor and play with the, you know, with the toys and it could do that for hours.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: I was like trying to figure out what new exercise class I could go to or when I was gonna get a break, um, which looking back, um, you know, feels, you know, it's a little sad to think about those moments when I really wasn't present.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what's interesting, and this is something that we talk about in our course too, is it it's never the thing.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's not, you know, freedom doesn't exist in the exercise class.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Freedom could have existed on the floor with my kids.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's just how I was relating to the experience and how I was labeling it, and my, you know, unconscious ideas of what needed to be in place for me to feel something in my body that I equated with freedom.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I do.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: So so that's so it's interesting.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the things I really wanted to like unearth and play with today in this relatively short conversation, I know that you and I could sit here and talk for freaking hours.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: We do actually, we talk about this stuff all the time for hours, but in the context of this podcast, it will be relatively short.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: But this idea of like, what does it look like for us as mothers to give ourselves permission to?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna use a term we used earlier today in a conversation, put on our jetpack.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: Put on a jetpack that's gonna really help us get from this assumption that to be a good mom, we have to be with our kids all the time.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: When there's something inside of us that's like itching, you know, the we those listeners who relate to this will know the feeling.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: And those who don't is fine.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's there's not a e it's not a good or bad, but those who know that feeling, that itching, like I need, I need some greater purpose than this for myself.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: I need to do something else.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what would it's a calling, it's a hunger.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: You used that word earlier.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's a hunger.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, uh, and it really does require, you know, Deb and I did an episode on change and transition inside motherhood last season.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: And right now I want us to talk about like what is it like to give ourselves permission to enter a new space for ourselves that is outside of the role of mom.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you and I will say it over and over in this conversation.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: We both believe really strongly that when we feel full and alive in life, we show up as better moms when we're with our kids.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not an either or, it's like in service of.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: But it is hard to be brave to put on that jet pack and say, I am gonna, I am gonna like jet feel my way.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna, I'm really willing, I'm gonna put in the effort and the resources and the energy to access that thing I want.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: That is like so freaking brave, isn't it?
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about that.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's so courageous.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes I feel like I talk to a lot of moms who uh are unclear about exactly what it needs to look like or what that feeling would equate to.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: They're not sure what the how is.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: But they know the feeling that there's something bigger for them.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: There's something like they want to occupy a bigger space.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: And um I think it's important to not ignore that feeling, right?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: And um not and give yours give yourself permission not to have to have it all crystallized before you start taking steps towards something, just investigating it, seeing what feels good in your body when you spend time outside of the house or with whom it feels good to spend time with.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: Or what you're doing.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, in my world, with a lot of the clients who I work with, there's guilt associated with that.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: There's a sense of selfishness that some people can rumble with.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, what's coming up for me as you're speaking is like the fucking world needs more women's voices in it.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like we will, my personal bias is that women are going to be the ones to change this world.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: And if we are holding ourselves back from rumbling with that, from taking that leap, from putting on that brave jetpack, we're actually holding something back from the world, whether that's thought leadership or creativity or um wisdom and intellect or um, you know, running a team or whatever those things are, right?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's the opposite of selfish, because that's also the world our children are going to grow up into.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean, it's so important to model that behavior.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, having been inside organizations for half my career, they are desperate for women's leadership, not like pantsuit nation leaders.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like women who come to the office who are great listeners and who are receptive and who are patient and who are compassionate.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, so many of those qualities are in low supply in certain organizations because there are less women in the upper echelons of leadership.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: So that absolutely has to change.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think our generation is that transition team, actually, that really helps to create more balance in organization.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's essential.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm curious, Kate, like what was it for you?
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like what Do you remember a moment when you had to give yourself permission to like kick it into sixth gear?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I will answer that question, and it's going to come from the place like I'm I'm every day still giving murself permission for that.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's not I gave myself permission and then I was in sixth gear.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I'm working with that challenge every day.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: I do want to say something that will help me answer that question, which is that as you're talking, I'm reminded of how I was really bummed that my mom wasn't around more when I was a kid.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was really like my mom was the one who would um care package me bags of potato chips to summer camp.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: And all my friends were getting homemade cookies.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember being like, why can't I have the mom that makes homemade cookies?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, my mom, if she was around for dinner, she'd make scrambled eggs and toasts.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like she didn't know how to cook.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: She did, I mean, it was real, she was not your quintessential maternal figure.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember being so bummed.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then my mom died suddenly, eight years ago, as you know.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I really did a lot of self-work and exploration to figure out the meaning for me behind my relationship with my mom, behind death and dying, behind, you know, mentor all those things.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm now mothering two daughters, like one of my past, all that stuff.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I for the first time was like, oh my God.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: I just caught myself and I'm like, don't say God, say gosh.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: That just went through my head.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: Just you know, I'm like, why am I parenting myself?
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, wow, first of all, my mom's hard work created the financial foundation for me to help send my daughters to good schools.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: So opposite of selfish.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: At the time when I was growing up, I didn't know that she was doing it for my daughters.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: I just hurt, I just felt like it was against me.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was like, oh my gosh, thank you, thank you.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: I can't, I can't be, I couldn't think of something to be more grateful for than having some financial stability around helping my daughters grow and learn and explore the world.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: So there's that.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Second, my mom made she was a pioneer in the field of women and career.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: And she used to say to me, You're gonna thank me someday.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I used to be like, I mean, there are a lot of mistakes my mom made.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: Don't get me wrong.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, and I think she probably could have handled, she was felt so guilty about not being around that like she brought her guilt.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: She she can't, she didn't have a take the leap course or a calm connection system or something else to help her.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: So she just did some projecting.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: However, I feel so capable as a professional woman to do anything I want to do because of what she modeled for me.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that is profoundly uh generous of her, right?
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, to answer your question, I think I well, two things.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: One, I just knew that it didn't feel good in my body to be home all the time with my kids.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like you, I didn't like playing.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: It was not, I had to learn how to play like when I turned 50, as you know.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: So, like play has like I didn't love playing, and I spent a I was really anxious as a mom of young kids and I didn't love it.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then I started the postpartum wellness center, right?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I really dedicated myself to creating this system and container for mothers who are struggling with anxiety because I was one of them and I know how common it is.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: That grew and grew.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: And there were ebbs and flows.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: Talk about ebbs and flows, where I would realize, oh, you know what?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't feel good in my body.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm spending too much time at work.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I would have to not judge and blame myself, but like pause and take a deep breath and feel that so I could reorient my values and my integrity.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then there'd be times when I was like, I am not spending enough time on my work and I need to reorient.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: And and over time, I mean, I've you know, I now have a 17-year-old, so I've sort of found my flow, but it still happens now.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm in Tokyo, Japan, and and I'm and I'm working my eyes off to really make my work now in this more virtual space be useful to the world.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: And there are some times when I'm stuck down here in my office for too many hours and I'm out of my alignment.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm needing to on a regular basis figure this out.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: What is the blend between honoring my role as a mother of two teenage daughters?
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's different than having little kids.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: They're actually very self-sufficient now.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: But what's my what's how do I honor that part of myself and also be available and show up for the relationships that matter most to me?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a dance all the time.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's a dance and they will tell you.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: 100% and they will tell you.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the guilt thing, and I think this is a really poignant part of the course, too, when we talk about the wisdom of emotions and how to respond to them rather than squash them or run away, uh ignore them.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and and guilt, especially, right, when we're feeling guilt, getting really curious about, you know, whose rules are we breaking?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: Or what are the rules that I've set for myself unconsciously about how much time I should be spending with my kids?
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: And taking a moment to really challenge those because time and quality time are two very different things.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you could spend hours on the floor with your kids looking at your phone while they're playing, you know, with their blocks, versus spending a shorter amount of time like deeply engaged in them and present.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think for me, understanding also, you know, where it really mattered for me to show up for them based on who they are, not what I assumed was important for them was really important.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: My my my parents, they're amazing.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I had a very privileged upbringing and and I'm really the stars aligned, you know, when I when I was you know given my parents.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: But uh there were many times when they were late or missing at my uh soccer, you know, matches.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember crossing the finish line at a uh at a at a half marathon and they came like 10 minutes late and missed me like the finish line.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: And those moments, just like you're describing, are, you know, they're painful.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: But um do I wish that my mom was, you know, you know, uh an ever-present, you know, force at home.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, no, actually, no.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so glad that she spent time uh indulging her interests and living a full life.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: And she was an editor in San Francisco for Travel and Leisure magazine.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, there were so many benefits of that as kids that we got going to all the new restaurants and hotels.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: And um my world expanded because my mother worked.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I'm deeply grateful for that.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: That word indulge, I love that you just used that word because I I think in motherhood, at least in the first time, especially in first-time motherhood, right?
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: There's this idea that if we indulge in things, uh we're being selfish.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's a that word can have a negative, uh, gluttonous narcissistic uh slant to it, right?
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: And really you're using it in a very different way when you're talking about the ability for your mom to indulge in these parts of her life that you benefited from.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's the thing.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's in if we can see these things as in service of, it's not either or.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's not I'm gonna indulge in this thing this way in a self-absorbed narcissistic way.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: And and and in that, I'm gonna take away from something in my child, it's or my family or whatever it is.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's how does indulging in this thing contribute to my child's experience and upbringing?
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it's such an important, valuable question.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: I am gonna I'm gonna ask a quite I'm gonna, I'm gonna take us in a little ride here.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: You can tell me if you don't want to go on this ride, because I think we I'm realizing now that we talked about doing this, and then today we forgot to make.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna suggest that we popcorn a little bit.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: If we don't get to all five, no problem.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: But at least a couple of the we just did a free master class for folks who were who knew that they were interested in taking some kind of a leap, had some goal that they wanted.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, Ash, the way you and I have talked about it is similar to how I teed us up for this conversation.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's like something that you're wanting that has felt out of reach for you.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think again, for some of our listeners, the whatever it is might feel out of reach because it's outside of mothering.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't have to be a job.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to be really clear that we are certainly calling forward those women and that are listeners here who are career-driven or know that they want a work-based purpose outside of being a mom.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: That is certainly a lot of folks will be called forward in that.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: But we can also be talking about volunteer work or artistic creative endeavors.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to be work-paid work necessarily.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: But but we we know that there are several things that separate, as our master class was called, the dreamers from the doers, those people who are like, oh, that would be so nice, versus those people who make those things happen.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you feel about jumping into a couple of those?
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe even we could share if it comes up personal examples of how those things showed up for us.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: Does that feel where do you have time for this today, right now?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: Let's do it.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: Let's do it.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: Let's do it.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: So do you want to just should we just where do you want to start?
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think you know, where where we start in the course is getting in touch with the feeling that you want to have when your life is more expansive, when you decide to invite that other piece in and go for it, and really not just like dabble in it, not just like dip a toe in it, but to really commit to having that thing that you want that you don't currently have, and that's the leap.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, we we talked about this distinction between being a dreamer and a doer.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what we found through this course, looking at all of the women who have been successful at leaping, is that they were been so connected to the feeling that they want to have at the end of their leap.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Whether that feels purposeful or having more inner peace or connection is always a really popular one.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um but, you know, dreamers, those people who can't seem to initiate that change, are usually trying to do it just from their intellect alone.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what we've both noticed is that that is in our own lives also, is it's not enough.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like the body has to come with it.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and so you can visualize all you want, but unless you really can embody the feeling of what it's like when you're on the stage with Oprah, right?
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: Or giving that TED talk, or what it's like for you to be in like a deep connected relationship with your partner, especially when it hasn't been modeled for you.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: Or I think of some other examples people have shared and take the leap for you to have the body that you want to have, whether it's has to do with weight or strength, right?
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: To to be able to run a triathlon, right?
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: To feel what would it feel like to embody the triathlete, not to wait until you finish the triathlon to know that feeling, but to embody that feeling now, right?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: To to be on a board that you've always wanted to be on to support an organization, to donate, to, to be a philanthropy, you know, to be able to donate money.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like we often will say financial abundance tends to be a leap people want to make in our course.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: I want to have a career, have a job where I make more money.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then this idea of like, what would it feel like to can you access the feeling of financial abundance before all the money is in the bank?
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you if you know that one of the reasons you want to really up the ante in your career and bring in more money is because you want to donate, be able to donate more money, donate now, even if it's only$5.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: What does that feel like in your body?
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: So this is the first one we talked about, and it's it's goes along with this thing I say all the time in my work, which is with, you know, in this other work I do with specifically with moms and anxiety and guilt and all these things, is we don't get what we want, we get what we are.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess that first separation we're saying right now is the dreamers think it, the doers feel it.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: And what you just said dovetails nicely with one of the other things we shared, which was being really aware of what we're unconsciously committed to, like those habits and those thoughts that we have that have been conditioned and shaped over a long time, and that drive us to take action or to not take action and lead to results that we say that we do not want.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: And um, gosh, you know, I think for me, and I'm sure for you too, that being able to almost like step back into that witnessing self, like to have the self-awareness of just watching yourself, be like, oh, there's that thought again.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you shouldn't bother reaching out to that person.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: They're never gonna respond to you about coming on your podcast or whatever that might be, you know, that like seed of self-doubt that shows up every time you're stepping outside of your comfort zone.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: When you can have enough perspective to see that that's what you're doing, it unlocks everything.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because then you have choice.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, you're just governed by um, you know, your monkey mind and these habitual actions that you've taken that are not leading you where you want to go, whether that's applying for a new job or um creating more community and reaching out to women and going to have a coffee or whatever it is that you're trying to do.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that has been like a real paradigm shift for me, being able to understand, again, what part I am playing in the results that I say that I don't want.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: There's also another little piece that gets wrapped up into this second difference between the dreamers and the doers, which is that, I mean, this could be its own section, but I'm gonna tie it on here, is that the the doers are willing to be wrong.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: Doers are willing to not know the answer.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the things that I think I hear you saying is that our need your, like we get so committed to these beliefs we have about things and these ways of showing up and these judgments and these ideas, these can'ts and impossibles and can and right and wrong, we get so committed to that way of thinking.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: So black and white.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: There's no grace.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: So rigid.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: And in order to shift out of those what we're calling here unconscious commitments, those things that we're doing that are keeping us stuck and that we don't even realize we're doing, we have to be willing to be wrong.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: We have to be willing to question these beliefs that we've held.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason that can feel so scary is because if we're wrong, that might mean we don't know.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a really fascinating data out there, number of studies that have brought this data together.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: And the data say that we would, we, meaning your general human being, would rather be would rather be right and fail than be wrong and succeed.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: That is some crazy ass shit right there.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: I I was introduced to this concept of imperfect action through a coach a while ago, and I just love it because you know it it's just there's so much that gets in the way, and there's so many justifications that we that we um that we make up to not do the thing that we need to do in order to find that balance or to get that job.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking of probably a lot of women who have had children and are considering a return to work and may have the recurring thought that it like has to be all or nothing, right?
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: Or it'll be impossible to find part-time job that I really love and feel passionate about.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, until you go and investigate that thought and challenge it, then that is what you're going to have.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's either going to be all or nothing.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: Confirmation bias.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: I would say that this is actually the root of my lifetime of anxiety, which I'm very proud to say I'm no longer fueled by.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I turned 51 this year, and I would say probably until I was about 40, I was very fueled by anxiety and fear.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: And if I really think about it, what I was fueled by were those limiting beliefs about myself in the world that were fueling the anxiety.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't the world.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't me, it was the beliefs I was so committed to, the things I was telling myself and the way I believed I should needed to show up, had to, should show up, the right versus wrong and how other people approached me or like I was so caught up in defending these beliefs I had that I that the defending them and the commitment to them is what was fueling my anxiety.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that and my willingness to not know the answer, my willingness to like, do you see even how my pace of talking just I just felt my whole body shift when I'm with like my ability to say, you know what?
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: I may not know.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: This thing I'm telling myself may not be true.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: That has served me in conversations with my husband, who is very different from me.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: That served me in raising two daughters who are their own little beings.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: It served me in my work, it served me in my relationship with my own parents, my own dad.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in this like big, crazy shifting of relationship with my dad, who's 86 and I'm 51.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what's required me to get to this new place in my relationship with him?
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: Wow is my willingness to let him be right.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever the heck that means, because there's no right or wrong, but to stop defending my perspective and like fighting with everything.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, okay, that's in it, that's a really interesting perspective.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: I've never considered that.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: Just that term softens all this stuff in the context of that relationship.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many, if you just stop for a minute and watch yourself for five minutes, there's so many aversions and attachments we have.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want that to be, oh, why is it on my desk?
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: Please remove that.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, what are we gonna have for dinner?
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I don't want to go to that restaurant.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's so unconscious.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it's interesting because it really informs our life.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then when we can step back and just be open and curious about what the experience might have to teach us, or why that person's perspective might be interesting.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think what we're really talking about here is just like a commitment to want to learn.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: To be open to learning rather than being right about something.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's really interesting because this fuels all violent debates in the world, you know, but it also fuels the mommy wars, right?
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: That fuels this judgment that we have in motherhood.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right, wrong, good, bad, do it this way, don't do it that way.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: Good mom, bad mom, sleep train, don't sleep train.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, all that crap that we can get caught up in that's fuel for anxiety.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: And if we can just step back and say, what if there's no one right answer?
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: What if it's all possible?
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: What if it's all okay?
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: What if it's all true?
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: Then we get to decide what resonates most for us versus having it to be something we're proving to other people is the right way.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, my whole body softens when I lean into that.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: And when you talk about that, then it makes me think about how disconnected so many, I certainly was, disconnected I was to my body and my feelings and my intuition.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so many women are um, you know, wanting to really ultimately, I think, just trust themselves, trust their decisions.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: And there was this moment, my um, as you know, my daughter Lucinda was born with heart disease.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: And there was this moment she had um, she had open heart surgery day three of her life.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: It was a, it was one of the most massive events in my life by far.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, incredibly stressful.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: And in her recovery, she had a feeding tube because she couldn't take down enough milk.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and it's funny, I remember like my old strategy used to be like, well, I'll just get like, I'll organize things and I'll do things.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I became like really I found purpose in in like pumping and finding, you know, saving my breast milk, all of those things and having everything be organized and checking in on the nurses.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: And there was this moment where after we had gone home with her, she um would try to tear this feeding tube out of her nose because it was obviously very uncomfortable to have a tube down your throat.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: But every time she would she would take it out, we had to go all the way back to the hospital and have it replaced.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like a four-hour ordeal.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: So there was this one afternoon where Lucinda had again pulled the feeding tube out, and my first reaction was like, I cannot believe we have to go back to the hospital right now.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: I was angry and it felt hopeless.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then all of a sudden, there was this voice that appeared inside of me that said, Hold on a minute.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe she doesn't need that feeding tube anymore.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what if we just see if she can get those like eight ounces in the next 10 hours and give that a shot?
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember it was like I felt you know, the walls have been closing in, and then all of a sudden, like like you're describing, everything relaxed.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I associate that moment with this concept of surrendering to just whatever is happening in that moment, just needing to let go of my agenda and ult and just trust her and myself that we would figure out what was going on based on what her reaction in the moment was.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: And sure enough, she drank enough, and that was the end of the feeding too.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been such a powerful lesson for me to just pause for a second and really ask yourself, like, huh, like this is happening over and over again for a reason that I have been failing to see.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: And now it's like, you know, the curtain's parting, like, oh, huh.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: We're just like entertaining this other option.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what's behind door number two?
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: I love this example so much.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it's reminding me of this question like, what if this isn't a problem?
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: The knee-jerk reaction to be like, problem, problem.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: Now we have to fix the problem.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a part of you, like what part is unconsciously committed?
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: There's a part of you that feels good about yourself when you have a problem to fix, right?
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like part of you, I'm imagining was so committed to that role of being the problem solver that, you know, and then there's this moment where you get to say, wait a second, what if this isn't a problem?
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: What if I can open up to curiosity instead of fear?
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: Which sort of ties us into maybe we can address, we can add, we can combine the the next two into one final one here, which is that any big change is gonna involve big, uncomfortable emotions.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: Fear, shame, guilt, right?
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_00: We talk a lot about this in Take the Leap.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: There is no big change without fear.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we can roll into shame, certainly guilt.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: And we have to have a plan for how do we make room for those big emotions rather than try to avoid them.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because if we're trying to avoid them, we're not moving forward.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, and then along with that is this concept of failure, right?
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: There's no big change without a million failures in between.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: And with failure will come feelings of fear, shame, and guilt, right?
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that we tend to, the what separates the doers from the dreamers is that the dreamers will sort of stop at that point and either they don't have the tools to really know how to move through those emotions wisely, or those experiences of failure will feel there, will come back to those limiting beliefs and will be like, forget it, I just can't do it.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_00: My kid, forget it, it's just not good for my kids, or forget it, I'm just not good enough to do that thing.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: And we stop in our tracks, right?
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, fear.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think fear is the biggest of all.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna put a stake in the ground out there.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm rooting for fear.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think fear having a toolkit for fear may be the most important thing that one needs in order to make a big change in their life.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, think about the fear of failure.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's the first place to use it.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: If there's something someone's wanting to do, if this conversation is perkling out of someone's inner knowing in their belly, this like, ooh, this thing is perkling out, that there's going to be fear of failure.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: And what do we do with that?
• 50:12
  unknown: Yeah.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's always fear is always gonna accompany uncertainty.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: And when you're going to go and reinvent yourself in some way, go back into the job market or pursue a hobby or a passion, something outside of the home, there's always going to be uncertainty.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I used a tool today, um, which is one of my, I'll share two just because they're fun.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: But one, you know, following the fear to the end, I think is one of one of my favorite tools, and we share it and take the leap, which is to really consider like what happens.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like if I were to fail at that, like then what would happen?
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then if that happened, then what would happen?
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: And if you follow it all the way to the end, it almost becomes laughable because your mind had globalized this thing to make it feel like you were going to be destitute, or you know, you your you know, your husband was gonna leave you, or you're you know, whatever that might be, just something really extreme.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then you come to realize in that exercise that like the thing I feared most actually isn't that bad.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the other thing when we think about failure or we think about big emotions is to actually intentionally call in another energy, like calling in the energy of love or calling in the energy of connection, which might sound woo-woo, but the minute you start to think about love, you know, neurologically, right, it shifts us to the front of the brain, to the prefrontal cortex.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_01: We're now thinking about something that's gonna generate a good feeling in our body and help us move towards the action that we need to take.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I just love those two as it relates to that.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then God, failure.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I one more thing, one thing I just want to add, because the other one, which is not that different from those two, you said love and what was the other one you said?
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_00: Call forward love and connection.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's curiosity.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's what you, when you're describing your example with Lucinda, you went from fear, this is bad.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_00: Now I have to go back and all this stuff, you know, when we're scared, we get scary.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_00: So now you're getting now, now there's not just fear, but there's anger and there's all that stuff happening.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_00: And you paused and you got curious.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: What if what might happen if we give her a chance to do it on her own?
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_00: It was the curiosity that also she invited that in and that shifted the fear, right?
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, you can call in whatever you want.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: That feels good for you.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: Grace, patience.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's so it's so dependent on the situation and who you are.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, you're exactly right.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, curiosity always has to be there, I think.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise we're our we're we've got blinders on.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's too narrow.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um but failure is hard.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: Failure is really hard for perfectionists.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: It will stop you in your tracks.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: What is one thing that you could share with our listeners here?
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: One one, it's not going to be as clean as this, but a word of wisdom or a reminder about failure and its importance as we sort of come full circle in our conversation today.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um that might be freeing.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: So you talked about the desire to feel free, right?
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: When you had first had your kids.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_00: And and what is it, what is one reminder that we talk about and take the leap that you could share with our listeners today about failure?
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I think the biggest takeaway, Kate, is that you can't have success without failure.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_01: So you want to make failure your friend, and one of the ways to do that is to adopt a different mindset around it.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_01: And one that helps you welcome and even expect that you're gonna fail, and that embraces the idea that failure offers us new information.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: If we take an action and we fail, then we learn something in the process.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_01: But if we don't take the action, then we never get to have that knowledge.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I like to adopt the mindset that failure is growth, failure is essential to growth.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_01: Failure is about experimentation and playing.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that word play has been a huge theme in my life.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I this year is the year of play, but um, anytime that I think about playing and in association with failure, it takes the pressure off and it makes it feel like, let's be honest, life is one big game that we're playing.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_01: And we're gonna fail at it sometimes, and that's okay in the grand scheme of things.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_00: Takes it all, makes it all helps us take it all a little less seriously.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_00: One thing I'll just add to that beautiful explanation is something that we invite our participants and take the leap to do, which is to, you said it, to plan for failure as a pathway towards success, but actually even beyond that, to look for the failures, right?
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_00: To look forward to them.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, if I am going to apply to this dream job I have, if I'm looking for a dream job and I'm gonna be applying to gene jobs, I'm gonna expect at least four or five no's for every callback, right?
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever the example is, so that we can really understand that not only is it part of the process, but we can welcome it.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's on a different note.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's like sometimes I'll sit down for my meditation in the morning and I'll be like, I am in a practice staying steady with anxiety.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll be like, okay, okay, I'm ready for the feelings of anxiety.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_00: And like, they like don't come.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I'm like, where are they?
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm looking for them.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_00: It like changes the whole process of it when we're like, okay, I'm gonna not only expect failure, but I'm gonna look for the places that I'm failing.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_00: It like makes it humorous almost.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_00: It brings to talk about play, it brings in some humor, some like, I don't know, it's just sort of hilarious when you begin to.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_00: We used to do this thing with our girls when they were little.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_00: We haven't done it in a while, actually, where we used to go around the table and each say one thing today that we failed at.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_00: It was like you had to, you had to come up with a failure that we were all gonna celebrate together.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it does shift this sort of like I think Sarah Blakely used to do that too.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I've heard her say that.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's a great practice.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's so good.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, Ash, we could keep going, but you know, it is nighttime for you and moving into the middle of the day for me.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, here's what I'd love for us to do.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_00: I would love for us to for anybody who's getting curious about the next leap or the next thing that might be pushing at their insides right now through this conversation to talk a little bit about this program that we are launching.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_00: I also want you to let people know where they can find you, what other work that you're doing, um, because I know there are a number of ways that you support women in this role of like embodying their leadership quality and what does that look like.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_00: So um maybe actually let's start with you just letting people know where they can find you, and then let's talk just a little bit about take the leap.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, my website is under construction right now.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_01: So the best place to find me is actually on Instagram and it's at Ashley Wick.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll keep it really simple.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh there are a few other courses that I'm running, but you can find them all there.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_01: So um I look forward to seeing anyone there who's listening to this episode.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_01: And Take the Leap uh is is kicking off soon, May 8th.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_01: And we've got um, I think five more spots left available, and the early bird rate ends at the end of this month.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and it's just an incredible course.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think if you are a mother who feels that call to create something meaningful for you in your life, whatever that might be, that this is an incredible opportunity to be held by both a therapist and a coach, and to have the built-in accountability and the support when you know you're when you're really going for something, when you're really committed to it.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and to have this incredibly supportive community of other like-minded women who are doing the exact same thing as you.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_01: This group container is magical.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_01: And we have a two-day retreat in Boulder with some of the best, our favorite practitioners in sound breath work, you name it.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_01: We have created an incredible curriculum for that two-day retreat.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know of any other course out there that is uh a 12-month course that offers the kind of support that we do.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I just love it.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's an incredible opportunity and great value.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I just, you know, yeah, I encourage anyone out there who's curious to go to take the leapwomen.com and learn more and apply if you're interested.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_01: And when you apply, you get a 30-minute clarity call with one of us, and we can assess whether or not that course is a good fit for you.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_01: So don't be shy.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, trust that instinct and check it out if if it calls to you.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think what I would love to offer up in addition, just as sort of some encouragement to our listeners, is to really call forward those listeners who know that there's something out there for them outside of motherhood that has been speaking to them, that they've been afraid or tentative or unsure about pursuing or engaging in to really call forward those of you who resonate with that idea.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, you and I have said this over and over.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this 12-month course is uh hard work.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_00: It is it is a commitment.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_00: It is for those women who are, for those mothers who are um no longer willing to not engage in that thing.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_00: And the sort of promise of the course, so to speak, this, you know, this is the fourth year that you and I have been creating curriculum together.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_00: The pro and so we know that the programming works, the promise of the course is that they will, you will be led, those of you who are listening, from desire to potential.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_00: And the weaving in and out of what that potential means and looks like might change, but that through this course, we're taking you through the psychology of change.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_00: We're taking you through how to move through those feelings like fear and guilt and shame and how to handle the failures that are going to come along the way and how to integrate these things into your life.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's the other part too.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think you and I are so committed.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_00: We're both mothers.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_00: We're we're so committed to making sure that women on this planet understand they don't need to choose between being a good mom and being an active member of society outside of motherhood in some way, that you can do both and they can serve each other.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, really, you know, the the stories, hearing the women who have been through this program talk about where they have come out at the end is very moving and profound.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_00: And um I would just like to personally call forward any of those listeners out there who are feeling something stir in this episode to jump onto the website, which will be in the show notes, and to apply and to get on that 30-minute call and to see if this actually is a good fit for you.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_00: We will help you figure out whether or not you can be successful given this program.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_00: And there's kind of nothing to lose, right?
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_01: Let's eliminate all those phrases that we hear other women and ourselves say, like, well, I'll be happy once or when, or I just need to get that other certificate before I start this project or start this entrepreneurial business, or you know, just all just wait until my kids are older and then I'll dot dot dot.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because you can have both and it's gonna look different for everyone, but not taking any action towards your leap does not bring any more fulfillment or joy.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_00: So and I think it's fair to say that if people look at us, right, if they look at who we are, if they're watching video of this podcast, if they see us on Instagram, if they, you know, hear the work that we're doing and see us as successful women.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_00: What I want them to know is that we had to do all the work we're going to teach you in this program to access the kind of success that we have, whether that's raising healthy children or having the kind of relationships we have or feeling fulfilled by our work or freaking moving to Tokyo for six months and with your teenage kids, right?
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_00: These things that, or being entrepreneurs, whatever it is, requires a process.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_00: And we want to teach you that process.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_00: And your success will look different than ours because you're you and we're us, but the process can be the same.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_00: The process is the same, right?
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's really about just creating a different relationship with yourself, which is a lifelong gift.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_00: Ashley Wick, I love you.
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_01: I love you too.
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for exciting to share and be here with you.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_00: One of my favorite parts about being um, I was just talking to Deb about this the other day.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's really hard.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_00: The time change is so different.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's so I'm 17 hours ahead of Boulder, Colorado here where you are.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it can feel very far away.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_00: I can feel very far away.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_00: But you and I meet every week, girl, for this course, for our planning, for the process of seeing this current cohort to fruition, because this cohort in Take the Leap is about to finish up as we get ready to start a new one.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_00: And what a freaking gift it has been for me to spend at least an hour with you every week.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I love you.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_01: I love you too.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_00: All right, listeners.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_00: I will uh I'll see you next time.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, listen.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: Listeners, we sure hope you enjoyed that episode.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_00: And if you did, we would really love for you to share this with a friend.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_00: So here's the deal: we're all in this together.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_00: And as a community of moms, we need to make sure that no one is left alone.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_00: So you can help us with that.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_00: Please share this episode or other episodes that you found useful for you.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_00: Please consider writing a review and rating this podcast because when you do, it actually makes it more accessible to other moms who might be looking for podcasts that they would also find useful.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_00: So we are so grateful you're here.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_00: And if you were interested in just taking a minute or two to share and rate and review, Deb and I would be so grateful.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for mothering with us.