Latest / Reality Writes / Letting Go—Things Writers Can’t Control

Transcript

Letting Go—Things Writers Can’t Control · Reality Writes

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, hey, hey, and welcome to another episode of Reality Rights.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: I am Author Ellie Alexander and I'm here with the tech guy.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: And today we're talking about uh everything, all things that are out of a writer's control, right?
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: All things that authors have little to no control over, uh, which I think is an important topic to discuss, not only for potential new writers out there, um, because when I'm coaching and teaching new writers, a lot of these things come up and I have to sort of um set them straight about what may or may not happen in the publishing process, but also for readers, because I'm often surprised at the kind of questions that I receive from readers in terms of everything from you know a book showing up damaged to um, you know, maybe like why a book is priced the way it is.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that's something that authors have really no control over.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Totally, totally.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so before we dive in, uh I just want to uh if you're new to this podcast, um I am here as the tech guy with author Ellie Alexander.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um we kind of know each other.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um just a little bit.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's a behind-the-scenes secret, we're married.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna talk about all things writing, uh, writing world, publishing, um, sometimes Taylor Swift and Star Wars leak in, you know.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's it's it's kind of everything.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: But uh you can find us anywhere uh on your favorite podcasting app.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so be sure to follow us and uh catch up on all the back episodes.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: And uh if you like it and you get anything from it, uh you learn something, maybe we make you laugh.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, hey, give us a rating.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it really does help.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: So that's reality rights.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: Reality rights.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's true.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, in terms of one of the things that I have always wanted to do in my career and want to continue to do with this podcast, is to dispel some myths that are pervasive in the book world and the writing world.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so we try to do that as often as we can on this podcast.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: And oh boy, are there a lot of myths.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, there are what there are myths about the myths.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Say that three times faster.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's like like myths.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's a weird word when you say it.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: So am I saying that right?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think so.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's gonna take me back to my speech therapy days when I had to do S blends with kids and we would do like snake.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: And like the snakes.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, you had to give the S in there.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: All right, but we we digress.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: Today we are gonna talk about things that authors have little to usually no control over.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: And some of this is specific to traditional publishing, but a lot of it also um comes into play with independent publishing too.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: And um, for starters, let's kick it off with things like finding.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: I just got an email last week from a reader who was like, Hey, Ellie, I it's really important.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: I want to give you a heads up that um, you know, pages fell out of the book that I was reading, which is terrible.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I hate that.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: But um, that's something that authors don't have any control over.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: No, what's it?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: No control, no control.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, just to dispel any myth that might be out there, yeah.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: There there are are like any book that you see on the bookshelf in a bookstore, uh, any book that you see online on an e-retail site, any book that you see at your local library, the author did not bind that book themselves.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: No one is sitting at home.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right, no, it is bookbinding is an art, first of all.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it is an art that and some people do bind books.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: That is that is what they do, but authors do not do not.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to say no authors because I don't know that for a fact, and we're all about the facts here on reality rights, but I'm gonna tell you that the vast, vast majority of authors do not, they don't have time, right?
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: They're writing the books.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: That that that is a full-time job in and of itself.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: So um it's not their skill set, it's not my skill set.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: I would, I don't, I don't bind the books either.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: So and how would you ever distribute them?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think you're right.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: There's probably like somebody who's like really um, you know, artistic who's doing like niche copies of an illustrator book who's probably doing binding themselves.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: I have um a friend and a colleague from Ashland who does um book restoration, uh, and that's an incredible process.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: I got to go to her studio years ago and watch her um bind books and then restore these gorgeous old covers.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that, like you're saying, is an art form in itself.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: But regardless of whether you're traditionally published or you're publishing independently, you as the author are not binding books.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like I would just be here all day with my glue stick.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I finished my word count.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: Now I gotta start putting some pages in.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and it's just it's not something that the author can do anything about either.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: So for the readers out there, if you have a book fall apart, take it back to the store, take it back to your library, and they will happily replace it if it was a defective binding.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that happens sometimes.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like anything.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, cars, cars get recalled all the time because things, things aren't, they they're not built correctly or something goes wrong with a part.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: It happens with books too.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh glue is not perfect, and sometimes you know, all these things built by by machines, one or a thousand of them may come out and not be perfect.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: So take it back to the store, get your money back, get get a replacement copy, let your librarian know.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: The library will definitely replace the book.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, uh, but the author cannot do either of those things.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I I I can do nothing.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: And in that situation, if a reader reaches out to me, you know, I'm always like, that's such a bummer that happened.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: But yes, do those tools you just said, because um I have no control over it at that end.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: Even if it's something, you know, editorial, I can probably reach out to my editor.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: But uh the editing team, even at the publishing houses, they can't do anything about that because that's a whole other department.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say over the course of my career, I don't think there's ever been a book released that hasn't had some sort of like that one reader hasn't had a bad binding, or like sometimes the trim size gets cut wrong.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's offset.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like the the type is farther down the page, and like the what should be the last line on the page gets cut off because of it.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's just because thousands of books are getting printed, and like you're saying, it's all automated.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yes.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: So we don't we don't want you to have a bad experience, but if you go back to the bookstore, go back to the library, they will return it.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: There's a whole channel and process for that to happen because it's I don't want to say it's common, but pages can fill out.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's also not an indication that every book has a bad idea.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: So that that's the other thing.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and again, I guess disclaimer when we're talking about these things, we're not telling readers like we're not we're not jumping down anybody's throat, we're not trying to get mad at it.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: This is all like it's educational, but yes, and it just doesn't I don't want to say waste of time.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: What's another way to say waste of time without saying waste of time?
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't like readers don't need to take time to tell authors about this because there's nothing they can do about it.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Instead, readers should take the time to go through the appropriate channels to get a replacement book, get their money back, whatever they whatever the the um fix is, and and then everybody's happy.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um totally.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I mean I think that's that same thing.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, with with any sort of reader interaction, I always want to make sure that somebody's having a fantastic reading experience.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: But when it's something that's out of my control, then I'm like, I I can't help you.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so sorry.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like right.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: Back to the bookstore, they will help you, I promise.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, so yes, things like that.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the follow-up to this one would be um, hey Ellie, I I ordered your book, let's say off of Amazon, and um I got my copy, and the package came damaged.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like again.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and people are people are probably like listening to this going, oh come on, Ellie.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, does anybody write in and actually say that?
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I am here to tell you, she is not exaggerating.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I am gonna say at least once or twice per week.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, per week, yeah, we get an email about this where it's like it's uh and it's not it could be Amazon, it could be some independent bookstore, it doesn't matter, it's just always like you know, they didn't package it well.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I mean, I you know, what I mean, so put yourself in the place of Ellie Alexander and you get you get this message or any author, like all my author friends too.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, put yourself in the place of the author.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Do are is the expectation that the author is then gonna call Amazon, Barnes and Noble, whatever bookstore, and say, Hey, I had a reader that got a package, they they're gonna be like, I don't because the the truth of the matter is when that package left the store, whatever store it was, yeah, it was probably in perfect condition.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then the US Postal Service, UPS, FedEx, whoever, whatever delivery service got their hands on it, and something happened along the way.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: There are dozens of people who touch the package between the store and the reader.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: There are machines that touch it, like it happens.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: But again, just reach out to whoever you got it from, let them know, and they will happily replace your book or give you your money back, or both sometimes.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, but they but they're the ones that can do it, not the authors.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and sometimes the best part is like if a lot of times you don't even have to return the bad copy, so then you can take that and share it with a friend, or not a bad copy, but you know, maybe like just the edge of return that for something.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then you get a new copy too.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: I just had this, I had a friend, and so this again uh is true whether you're traditionally published or indie published.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: I just had a friend who had this happen, and um the reader kind of went back and forth with her in this whole exchange of like, I need you to intervene.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, I I don't I don't even know your order number.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, they won't talk to me.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: I can't, I would love to have a new of them.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: They cannot divulge that information.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that is, there are laws against that, actually.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: So um yeah, well, and actually just to back up for for people for listeners who maybe darlings, dar darlings who may be new, um uh you kind of get the best of both worlds because you're both traditionally published and in indie published, or or in this case, maybe the worst of both worlds, right?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: So so when we're talking about these issues, these are definitely things like we have personal experience with.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um sometimes too much personal experience, I would say.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: But sometimes, or I just think it's that thing that um there's a lot that on the publishing side that readers might not understand, too.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: So like that's why we always want to pull back the curtain and be like, hey, yes, we're with you.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: In no way, shape, or form do we ever want you to get, you know, a damaged package.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: But then what's the appropriate channel to go through?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess people should know that we're both readers.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would call you a prolific reader, and I am more of the mediocre reader.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't think mediocre is right.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just a really fast reader, but the problem is I don't always retain everything.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm fully invested in the story in the moment.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: But then if you asked me six months later, I can give you big picture things.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this isn't true for like my favorite books of all time, but in general, uh, then the rest is fuzzy because I'm I'm moving on to the next, where you are a little bit of a slower reader, but you retain a lot more.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that just happened recently.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: I can't remember what book it was because if we if I were to draw a Venn diagram of like what I read and what you read, there'd be two massive circles, and there is some overlap right in the middle.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a book that we had both read, and I asked you, I said, you know, oh I can't Oh, it was a small way or oh yeah, small only planet by Becca Chambers.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh small angry planet, yeah.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Long way, yeah.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I don't even remember the title.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I and I was talking to you about one scene, and I was like, Oh, that was that was really weird when this happened.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like, that didn't happen.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: It was about the AI, uh the AI on the ship.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: And and you were like, That didn't happen.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, That definitely happened.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: It was like it happened, and I'll show you where it happened, and and it was just you just blew right through it.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: So just blew right through it, yeah.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, we're readers, she's a writer, I'm a marketer.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh that's our Venn diagram too.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's where we're yeah, that's true, yeah.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we have had our fair share of uh, you know, books that have come that have not been packaged well, and we have had our fair share of books that you know something's wrong with the binding, the page trim, etc.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: So we feel you on that.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: We just want to make sure you get a copy, and going to the author is not gonna make that happen.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: So we've had that happen with your books in the independently published books that we've done ourselves, where we get them and we're like, oh no, no, no, no, no.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so yeah.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, okay, so let's talk another um thing that most authors have little to no control over.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: And this is more specific to traditional publishing, and that is distribution.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh boy.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is a big this is a big one.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: It is a big one.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: When we're talking about distribution, that means like, so my job as the author is I send the book in to the editorial team and it goes through rounds of copy edits and page proofs and things like that.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: Cover design, we'll talk about covers in a little while.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, arcs of an advanced reader copy will show up, and that's where we're doing a lot of this work where it's like you're going through, you're checking that things line up, there are missing sentences, et cetera, et cetera.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: After that, I don't see it again.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: Then it shows up magically in bookstores everywhere.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: But I also don't have any um input in terms of how it gets distributed.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: So the publishing houses have relationships and in some cases full teams who have bookstores, you know, they have different areas of the country that they represent and they have relationships with those booksellers.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so with some of my titles, they are distributed everywhere, distributed, distributed everywhere.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and with some of them, um, there's limited distribution.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that is also true um if you're publishing independently, because you probably aren't gonna be able to have your books in every bookshop, let's say, in in across the United States.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: And and you have no control over when they get distributed to right um, so you um I guess by the time this episode airs, you will have had a new book come out uh in the bake shop series.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: Book 19 in the bake shop mystery series.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um but where at the time of this recording is still a few days to go before that's released.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: And you've already heard from readers who found it in bookshops two weeks ago.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: It was already on the shelves.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was already on the shelf two weeks ago.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh-huh.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Local bookstores, yeah.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so so and not, you know, that's annoying from a marketing standpoint, but it's it's it's great.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: But the but the opposite thing is that it's a good thing.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm a reader and I'm excited, that's great.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: But on the opposite end of that, you've got um, you know, not every like so once the publisher sends the book to the distributor, whether the publisher is St.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: Martin's Press or Ellie Alexander, Press, Sweetie Lemon Press, right?
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: R the R Press, um, we that's that that puts it into a catalog that bookstores can then order from, but they don't have to order from.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: And and it it's it it they have to be looking for it to find it.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: So if if your local bookshop doesn't have a book you're looking for, it doesn't mean that it's not available, it means that they haven't ordered it.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: So ask them, just ask your bookseller, hey, can you get me a copy of you know Sticks and Scones by LA Alexander?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: And they will be like, yes, and in one to two minutes, they can order it online and have it to you within a couple of days, uh, usually at most, because they will order it directly from the distributor, and then they will know, oh, LA Alexander has a new book out.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and again, I'm using Ellie Alexander because she's right there.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but right there.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh this is true for every author.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: But this is true for every author.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: And true for indie titles too.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: So if you have an indie author you love, it's it's less likely that the bookstore, unless they already have a relationship with that author, it's less likely you're gonna find that title just on the shelves randomly.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: But if you put in an order, then a bookseller might also discover a new title that they're like, oh wow, this is a good match for our reading demographic.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: Or a new series or or whatever.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it and it's especially with independent bookshops, they don't have unlimited shelf space.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: So they're going to order what's selling and they can't have every book on the shelf, and they can't discover every book on their own either, because these are usually very small operations with, you know, a limited number of employees.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: And while they are fantastic and amazing, they just can't they can't cover everything.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: So just talk to your local bookseller and they will be able to order it.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: But they but again, both of these things are not things that authors have any control over whatsoever.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, like if you um a case in point would be, you know, a reader emailing me and be like, I I can't find you know the new blah blah blah but in my local shop.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, can you help me?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that my help is like, yes, go to your indie shop and say, Can you order a copy for me?
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I, as the author, have no control, and I can't really reach out to them either because that would be weird.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, put my book on your shelf on your shelf.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, I mean, that is that's true.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's also a time factor because you you have over the years, you've built like solid relationships with some amazing bookshops uh around the country.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: And they but and those are bookshops that are constantly looking for your new books.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um they probably have alerts set up that you know, anytime LA Alexander has a new book come out, they're going to order uh some copies of it for their shelves.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: But you could there there aren't enough hours in the day for you to build relationships with every single independent bookshop out there.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the same is true for independent booksellers, right?
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's one of the fun myths that I kind of explore in my new secret bookcase mysteries.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there's also this idea that like booksellers sit around in their cozy bookshops and read all day.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, no, not true.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: They're running a small business, right?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: So they don't have time to seek that out.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: And they rely heavily, um, if we're talking about traditional publishing, they rely heavily on their sales reps who come through and say, like, hey, here are the titles that you know we're really excited about for summer reading.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: Here's what's coming for fall.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: They go to shows to be able to see, like, okay, what are the publishers really um promoting and pushing right now, too?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's its own beast.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and they rely on their customers, their readers to to let them know about you know great new books and great new series that they they're enjoying.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, that's how they that's how they decide what to carry in their shops.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, to tag along this sort of um distribution end of things.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, the other thing that I want to say though, too, is um with Amazon, there are things like KU, Kindle Unlimited, which you buy a subscription to KU, and then anything that's in that platform you read for free.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, for free, you're paying for the subscription, right?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: But you're not buying those individual books.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: You can read as many books as you want, you know, in a month.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: You could read millions.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: But whether or not you, yeah, but whether or not you retain that million books, yeah.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, does it matter?
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like you just have great stats for goodies.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so the traditional publishers for the most part have not been in that space.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: That was a space that really um was indie authors, and that's what helped grow that platform.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: I just read a stat that it's the second largest bookstore in the world right now, KU.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but again, especially with my traditionally published titles, I don't have any say over how those books get distributed from an ebook perspective either.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I will hear from readers like, why is why is the bake shop not on that platform?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: Or why is why is um secret bookcase there and this one isn't?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: So that's all just based on different publishing houses and or independent if you're independently published.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: So right.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, one thing that readers um uh one thing that they should know is that all these publishers have different business relationships with the these different ebook uh distributors.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's more advantageous to them, meaning monetarily advantageous to them, to distribute on certain platforms versus others.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so, especially from a traditional publishing standpoint, an author has no control over that.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Also on the indie publishing side, there are rules too.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Some of these platforms, um, KU is one of them.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: If you decide to put your book on KU, technically, according to the rules, you're not supposed to have that ebook available on any other platform while it's on Kindle.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Apple, Kobo, yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Only while it's on Kindle Unlimited.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think I just said Kindle back then, but it's just only Kindle Unlimited.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then and then once it's off Kindle Unlimited, it can be offered on as an ebook um for purchase on you know Barnes and Noble, Apple, Google, uh, Kobo, all of them.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, so different publishing houses have different strategies in terms of how they're using that platform and pricing.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, we can go into pricing, but we're gonna we're gonna circle back to pricing because the mean the other two things I want to talk about still fall into this concept of distribution.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: And um, that's audio and other additions.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: So like um foreign translations.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I will often receive emails from readers saying, like, hey, why isn't this title on audio yet?
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: Or why aren't your books available in um French or you know, um, I don't know, Dutch.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and a lot of times, you know, the message will be like the the way that it's framed is like, Ellie, could you please get your books uh translated into French because I'm a French reader, or could you please get your books on audio?
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: So the way that works from a traditional standpoint is that my contract covers the books themselves, ebook, etc.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then the other rights get sold independently.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: So audio rights get sold out to an audio publishing house, and foreign rights get sold by different foreign translation presses.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I have no control over whether somebody may or may not buy those.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: Usually, luckily, I'm crossing fingers and toes, um, especially with audio, audio skip these days, that most everything has gotten picked up.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I don't have control over when those release dates come.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's always fantastic when they line up with the key release, with the main release, but that doesn't always happen.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes the audio comes out a few months later.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then um with foreign translations, again, that's just based on a foreign publisher saying, wow, I really am interested in this eight shot series.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: I would like to buy the rights and translate it to print.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: So um I would love to have everything translated everywhere, and I would love to have audio of all of my books, but I just I have zero control over that.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: And again, um that for for readers out there, that that is the reason that audiobook covers look different than the print book covers and the ebook covers is because it's a different publisher and they don't use they they don't have the rights to use the same art.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why they'll look different uh a lot of the time.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if a lot of people know that.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that before you started writing.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I because I always thought, wow, this is weird.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like I know it, you know, yeah, yeah, right.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: But uh that is why.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: So when it comes to your favorite books being in audio and or in some other language, odds are the author has no control over whether or not that happens, and they would be ecstatic when and if it does happen.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: No, that was super cool to see the Slum Cross series uh published in Japan.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: That was those books are really cool looking.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing, yes.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, and then the last thing that kind of dovetails on this too is uh movie deals.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say at least at least once a week, sometimes more than once a week, I will get a lovely email from you, darlings, which I so appreciate saying, Ellie, will you please make your books into movies?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I mean one of the reader can say, Yes, I would love that, but um no, I cannot do that myself.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, so what people don't know is um I am not a movie director in my spare time.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm not an audio engineer, right?
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, exactly.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we have we have no Hollywood connections.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that is not something authors have control over.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um what ends up happening is is um screenwriters uh find books that they love, uh popular books or even not popular books that they just happen to love and they get an idea on how to write that because writing for TV and movies is completely, completely different from writing a novel.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it is uh that is a talent in and of itself, and that is not something that most some some novel writers can do it and have done it.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: There have been very famous examples, all of which are escaping me right now.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: But um uh we just who we just watched something where the author of the book actually wrote it for T Oh oh it was uh no dark matter.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: Dark Matter Oh Dark Matter, oh Blake Crouch.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: Blake Blake Crouch uh wrote wrote the book and wrote the that's because Blake Crouch did you know wrong.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: I know that's that was amazing.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: If you haven't checked out Dark Matter on Apple TV plus, um you gotta watch it.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's amazing.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: And the book, read the book.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the book, dark writer, and also while you're at it, go read upgrade too, because that was one of my favorite books of the summer.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that that was really good.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, so that Blake Crouch is a is a um, I would say, rare example of an outlier, yeah, who who does both.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um but even with an author like Blake Crouch who writes you know both the book and the screenplay, yeah, that's just the that's just the start of what needs to happen.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's so much more because even making just a TV, you know, series of TV movies on like Hallmark, for example, is a multi-million dollar endeavor for any studio.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: And a studio has to buy those, and then yeah, yeah.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: So and and that takes years um to to negotiate and coordinate and you know, and then they may make something that never sees a light of day, too.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: So exactly the author has no control over that whatsoever.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: No, but it would be great, it would be really great.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm always exact I'm I'm as equally enthusiastic as you are, darlings.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: I just cannot make that happen myself as much as I would love to.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I would also say I would be a terrible screenwriter because I think I would my skill set, I know this about myself.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's also sort of like, you know, your greatest strength is also your weakness, because I think one of the things that I am good at is these like descriptions of place, of setting, of food, like so rich.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: But also it is my Achilles heel because I will go too deep into that sometimes, and then I have to remind myself, like, no, get back to the mystery, right?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: You don't need to, you don't need three or four paragraphs.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, a screenwriter, they would do none of that.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: That is it's all just like quick zip, go, go.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a seven-second scene on TV, right?
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, yeah.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would I would not be good at that.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um so again, your favorite author would love to hear that you want to see these characters on the screen too, as do I.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but they are not the ones that can make that happen, unfortunately.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: Are we crushing dreams today?
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: Is this just no, no, no.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think I I I again that's why I kind of did the caveat up front.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, our goal is not to like jump all over everybody for asking questions because please ask questions.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I like I just like like I said, it's a better use of everyone's time if people are just educated, know about this stuff, so that they know like not to come to an author for certain things and where to go to get you know the their either their idea heard or the you know or action taken on some issue they have.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, absolutely.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, let's talk a little bit about um cover design.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so uh yeah, it is a good one.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: This is something that has come up a lot with my um coaching clients, like I alluded to at the beginning of the podcast, yeah, um, and my writing students in my mystery series masterclass, because and I had this um idea myself when I first got published.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you think that as the author, and this is uh this is solely true for traditional publishing.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: If you're independently publishing, you have a lot more say and control about cover design.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: But um, as a traditionally published author, the um I just had a coaching client last week who is out on submission and uh just got requests for three from three agents to read her full manuscript.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm oh that's awesome.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: But one of her questions was should I start um sketching out cover ideas for them?
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, well, here's the deal.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like what happens is my editor will ask me for sort of um a paragraph or two, like a very brief summary of the book, um, as well as some images uh that I might have attached to that.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: So let's say for Sticks and Scones, the book that will have just come out when this podcast is released, it is set in Ashland, it's summertime.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: Lance, the artistic director, is putting on a new show out at Uva, the Vineyard.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I sent pictures of vineyards in Ashland and like an outdoor stage in Shakespeare.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then the team at the publishing house creates the cover image.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: But you, as the author, that's that's the extent of the say that you have.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: Now, maybe if you're like Stephen King or somebody who's, you know, I don't know, like a multi-millionaire a zillion times over, you have say.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: But as most authors in a traditional publishing house, you are not gonna have a lot of say.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: And um, even my very first book covers, I was not a fan of at all.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember like pretty much crying to my agent, and he was like, it's gonna be okay.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and they never got changed.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: I gave feedback that was like, I don't think this matches the series, this isn't the vision.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: And the publishing house has their own vision and their own plan and their own marketing plan, and they usually go with that.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I will get emails from readers like, Hey, why did you go with XXX on the cover?
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: And like, I I didn't.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you're able to, I mean, you have been able to affect minor changes to things over the years, and and um, but uh uh even you know, like the publishers, especially in traditional publishing, um, especially in this particular genre because it is so prolific, uh, color is really like they're they're mapping that out.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not it's not just your book, it's like how what books are they releasing at the same time?
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: They don't want everything to be pink, for example.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: So that will have an effect, and and the author won't get a say, you know.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: It it's just it's it's unfortunate, but it's true.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I will say on the inny side, you do have all the ultimate freedom, but that can sometimes be a bad thing too, because you know, you you like you can say what you want about the control that traditional publishers have over book design and everything, but they know what they're doing.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: They have you know decades and decades of experience doing this.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: And like you said, they have marketing departments, but there's research that actually goes into where they put the title, where they put the author's name, what colors are used, all that stuff.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't really, as an independent publisher, you don't have access to all of that all the time.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it is just yeah, and it can be overwhelming too when you're making all of those choices.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're a new writer and you're imagining yourself going down the path of traditional publishing, just like put that in the back of your head that you'll be able to make some suggestions and then um, you know, you see where it goes from there.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: But on the plus side, then things like distribution and getting into bookstores are gonna be a lot easier for you.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: So there's always like a pro and a con to both to both paths to publication.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um this also leads us into book size.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: There's been some drama about book size in this household uh the past few years.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: Book size, um you know, book editions.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: So readers will be like, why, Ellie, is did you publish the Sloan Krauss mysteries in hardcover first?
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, why did why did you, Ellie?
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't have any say over that.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, or like, why are they in mass market?
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: Or why, you know, um, again, this is I feel like a broken record, but this is not something that authors have control over, again, in the traditional model.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: If you are publishing independently, you will go through and you will pick your sizes and um you'll have complete control over that.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: But um, on the flip side, if uh a book contract comes through, the publisher has a plan for that.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: They have a price point for that, which is also a question that I get.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why is this book priced like this?
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: And why is this book priced like this not something that an author has say in?
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely uh um, you know, like I like you said, there are pros and cons to both approaches.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: That and for somebody who um who doesn't want to have to deal with all of this stuff themselves, traditional publishing is great because it's taken care of for you.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: The flip side of that is that you know, readers never go to publishers to ask these questions, they always come to authors.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because they don't know, like they don't know because you don't know, right?
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: But but the authors don't know.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: The authors, the authors don't they you know what we're saying is none of us know.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right, exactly.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's fair.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: We're all we're all on this together.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um the last thing that uh comes up with this is editorial changes.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: And this is something that an author may potentially have control over.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: So let's say that you find an error in a book, you kind of shouldn't you email an author?
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's always a little dicey.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: If it's something that's very clear, yes, absolutely.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but a lot of times what a reader's perspective of a change that needs to be made may not line up with the publishing house's editorial guidelines.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: So let's take, for example, commas.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: I wrote a whole piece for my college newspaper about my love affair with the comma or lack thereof.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um but one publishing house, and this has been completely true in my career, will have a set of rules and regulations for each book, their style guide.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: And another publishing house will have completely different standards.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, for one publishing house, it might be the Oxford comma for everything for another publishing house, not at all.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and so if you know a reader is like, well, there's not an Oxford comma in this, well, it it's likely that that is not a mistake, that that's a choice on the publishing house's part.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: And again, I might send in a manuscript because I have had the Oxford comma pounded into my head from having an English teacher as a dad.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and my publishing house will go through and take all of those out.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I have no control over that.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and that that's true though, even on the indie publishing side, because depending on who you have, edit your book, and you should always have somebody edit your book.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yes.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh ultimate, yeah.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: But one one editor to the next, their style, their style of choice is going to be different, and they're going to edit the book in a unique way.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: So you could have two editors edit the exact same manuscript and end up with different um sentence structure, grammar choices, uh, you know, punctuation choices, all of that.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that could be huge, you know, if you're writing a series.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, um, one of my writers in my writer group has a a very solid, long-running series.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: And she's just at the process now that she's having an editor put a style guide together for her for that reason, because as the series is continued, she wants to make sure there's continuity.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that if she's hiring a different editor, let's say your normal editor isn't available, that she has a baseline to be like, no, no, no, the first five books in the series have, you know, had this kind of a style guide.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: And you've gone you've gone through that with the traditional with your traditional publishers too, because um uh copy editors, especially.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: You've had many on the I mean, the Big Shop Mystery series is now 19 books long, soon to be 20.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I mean, I don't know, what are you on, like seven or eight, maybe more, in terms of copy editors.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's like uh for a while there seemed like there was a new one every book, and because of that, uh you were getting feedback that was like, no, we we corrected this like two books ago, or not corrected covered this two books ago, and now you're having to have the same conversations over again.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: So but that's also something that could be that could affect indie authors as well, because again, um, you know, you might not the the person that you use regularly might not have time to get your manuscript done during you know your timing, and so you go with somebody new and and the same thing happens.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, um I but that just to jump back a couple of things uh sure to audio, that's that's that's how you'll allow it.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this time.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's also why uh there are different narrators across different across um series like yours, because with so many books, the same uh audio publisher might not buy all the books, or another publisher might jump in before the the previous publisher got a chance to and and get the rights, and they'll use a different narrator.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so you might get some differences there um that are out of your control as well if on the traditional route.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's been a bummer for me for the Bake Shop series because I think there have been three different audio publishers thus far for 19 books.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it has jumped back and forth.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: And again, that's not something I have control over.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: And each audio publishing house has their own set of narrators who they use.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: So readers will be like, wait, it was this person and now it's this person.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why did you change?
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like I didn't know, totally yeah.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think I think we've covered a lot.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think we've covered a lengthy list of things that authors have little to no control over, even if we wanted to.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, so what so we've covered all this stuff, and and that's been good for readers, and it's probably been good for readers to learn, because I'm sure there are some darlings out there who didn't know some of this stuff, at least.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's been great for authors to hear this, but like, what's your advice for dealing with this?
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know from living with you, uh that that these things are frustrating for from an author's perspective, like the the things that you don't have control over.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, what's your advice to writers in terms of I mean I know this has come up with your coaching clients and and and your you know for your writing students too, but like what's your advice for how to deal with that?
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think one of the things that I've done that's been helpful over the years, and you have actually been a great um partner on this in terms of coaching me to just like have some talking points that I have so that if a reader reaches out with these questions, I can have a quick response and not have to have it take up too much headspace.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: But as writers, we're also, you know, we have little tender creative parts sometimes too.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: So every time something like that comes in, I'm like, oh, that sucks that you got like a bad binding, or you know, you want a size that isn't available.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I would say, so from a writing perspective, having some talking points that you can just quickly respond and be like, yes, that's a bummer.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: Be sure to return the book to your bookstore, your library, et cetera.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh for readers, just to darlings out there, um, hopefully if you've learned that now you know, and you know, like, okay, if I get a bad copy, I'm gonna go right to my bookstore.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, um, if I want audio, I don't know.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: Start emailing audio publishers and demanding that your favorite books are out in audio or you know, whatever it is.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if you have um Hollywood movie connections, send them our way.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: Right, totally.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm all in.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks in advance, yeah.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thanks in advance, appreciate it.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: Love it, love it.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's always amazing to get any sort of requests from a reader who is interested in wanting to read my books, like that just goes without saying.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, the takeaway is not like please don't email me.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's just wanting to educate people and darlings about how the publishing process works and what I as an author can and cannot do.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and it's about time too, right?
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if if you like if you just you're writing full time, I mean, you write what two to three thousand words a day.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe more sometimes.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um you don't have time to answer all the questions that come in.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so we we try we try our best to answer people.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and it's because, like you said, we do care about people's experience and we want them.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: But but it's it is still difficult just given the volume.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I I guess my my advice, my non, my non-writer advice to writers.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, my tech guy advice would be like just be sure that you're honest with yourself about time management and what you can truly put in.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because it it does take a lot of work to grow an audience and you do want to make those connections and you do want to be helpful to people and stuff.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: But ultimately it doesn't matter how big an audience you build or how solid those connections are, if you're not writing it that that audience is going to go away.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean you've got to be generating the content first and foremost.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then you know that that's a good that's a good use of your time.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: And we're we've talked a lot about um putting out some courses on uh just kind of um website development and and social media stuff that you can do to help you know answer these questions in a more automated fashion without like turning it into like I am a robot like here's my answer and everything.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: But but saving writers time and and also with the goal of giving readers a a better experience overall.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a great we just got to get on that.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: I know we yeah what are we doing with our time here?
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and that's a great segue into the next episode of reality rights that's gonna focus all on writer organization.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow okay there we go we planned that and we didn't I don't even think they told me that was my next idea.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: I did I I did not know that.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: So that is actually uh that's great.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_00: Way to go that's great.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: Weird thing well on that note I think uh I think we've done it for this this episode but as the tech guy said be sure to uh follow us on Spotify share it with your friends listen on watch on YouTube anywhere you listen to podcasts we so appreciate it yeah and again if you if you like it if you it you know drop a comment and let us know if there's something else that you want to know about the writing world or or you know behind the scenes of publishing or reading whatever it is let us know and if you enjoy the show please drop a rating for us and uh drop a review and we would absolutely love to hear from you.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely all right on that note until next time until next time