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"I Feel Uncomfortable, I Must Be Growing": Eddie Hartley on EDI · Insights for a Better Workplace - Sponsored By Manutan

• [00:00] Hello today on insights for a better workplace we are joined by Eddie Hartley a culture and inclusion partner at Comic Relief Eddie it's great to have you on the show thanks for having me really really excited no you're more than welcome so let's start off with you telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do at Comic Relief yeah so my name is Eddie Pronouns are he him and I am the culture and inclusion partner at Comic Relief so it's a very relatively new role to me and I joined in March but previously I was at a Sue Ryder which is a national healthcare end of life palliative charity and bereavement and I suppose my career has kind of been really people focused although be it kind of different people situations [00:41] volunteer stuff and but I actually started my career when I was 15 and in frontline retail as a volunteer so I did that for a year wow 15 became a 15 it was very very young ha ha ha yeah and I think it was kind of just to get stuff on my CV but actually it turned out to be the best thing I could have done because I ended up staying at Sue Ryder for nearly nine years and after that so it was a very very uh yeah good good choice um so I yeah I was a volunteer for a year when I was 15 and then I became a sales assistant in one of the stores moved into kind of a store management I went to university and did that around my studies which was really great and and then upon graduating I kind of moved into that national volunteering role [01:24] and so I was the national volunteer manager for healthcare and fundraising so responsible for governance of at any one time kind of like 3,000 up to 7,000 volunteers and so they were spread all across the UK and in seven different healthcare centres and community groups and doing various different bits and pieces hundreds of different roles hundreds of different kinds of people it was absolutely phenomenal but whilst I was at Sue Ryder and what kind of led me into culture and inclusion was the inclusion work around the LGBTQ+ network so I chaired that network for a year and a half and developed and wrote a strategy and implemented that for the network led on a Rainbow Badge training project end to end [02:09] that was a fantastic project we won a national award for that from the Retail Bulletin which was brilliant and then also a little bit of disability work as well supporting on the Disability Allies training so a broad range of kind of experiences at Sue Ryder which then led me into comic and I absolutely love it it's brilliant so I look after we have cultural intelligence at Comic Relief which is my absolute favourite and I will not stop talking about it I love it I think it's fantastic and as a kind of framework we use that to basically just upscale every single person in the organisation but also looking to develop that with our board of trustees so they will all undergo cultural intelligence training [02:47] also lead on anti racism learning our kind of people and culture DIB arm at the strategy and our employee network groups so quite a broad range of bits and pieces to be looking after a comic I absolutely love it um absolutely yeah there's so many interesting topics in there I think there's so many different things and we'll get into all of those in this episode and talk a little bit more in detail about some of the great work that you've done and obviously working in Sue Ryder obviously kind of there's a lot of retail in there then going into sort of national volunteer strategy and now sort of culture and inclusion how's that journey shaped how you approach people and culture challenges because it's you know [03:27] all a little bit different but how is it shaped that yeah I mean to be honest without tooting my own horn I think it's the biggest advantage that I have and it's also the biggest influence on the kind of work that I've done in that I've been there as a volunteer on the frontline in retail I've been there as a paid member of staff on the frontline but then I've also been in those kind of strategic and governance led roles where I've actually been able to kind of use that experience of being on the front line and seeing how things work to then translate into policy and that's one of my biggest things is around how does how does lived experience actually translate into policy because I think that's sometimes where organisations [04:00] may be struggle slightly is actually being able to go to the source ask those questions and really get that flavour and perhaps that's maybe fear I don't know if maybe not hearing the right things or what they want to but actually being able to kind of go to those people who the policy is written for to be able to hear what they want in there and how it's gonna shape their day to day is really really important I think yeah having to think about that kind of consistency and fairness across policy and across governance especially for like thousands of people if we're talking about Sue Ryder or comic slightly smaller it's still there being able to have that distinction is really really important [04:34] and then I guess the inclusion side of things as well when I was chairing the network I was hearing directly from colleagues about kind of what what was their experience and not just looking at that organizational organizational data I think that's really really useful that's really really helpful but you need to then be able to translate that into the person and the distinction is really really important because you know you can have the best strategy in the world and it can be written beautifully eloquently and but if that doesn't translate then you know you're making assumptions you're not listening that people are ultimately gonna start leaving and then you've got that whole employee life cycle [05:06] to start thinking about again and redefine so yeah there's loads of research around kind of employee voice which supports the need for that sort of meaningful ways for people to influence and contribute to how how a workplace develops and it's not it's not just that kind of annual engagement survey but it's how many avenues have you got for people to be able to give feedback to feed into things like policy and governance and and never just kind of like that afterthought if that makes sense yeah and it sounds a lot like it's kind of what you know from where you started really being sort of fruits on the ground almost and being in and amongst that and like you say not just sat in an office somewhere [05:40] writing up a strategy that you think is what's needed and and required for employees it's actually seeing first hand talking to those people first hand and that's what's what I think is so great about you know your journey and what you've done how did you find so working and doing that and creating sort of fairness and consistency at that scale because that you know obviously so so many employees how did you find that it was it was kind of tricky to be honest but I guess it goes back to kind of like EDI 1:01 where we're talking about Equality versus equity and consistency is great and fairness is great and you need both of them in some form some way or another but the same thing where if you're treating everybody equally [06:20] you're not you're not addressing the problems there you're simply giving a blanket approach which might seem great but actually when you start to dig deeper and it can be really tricky when you're talking about thousands of people here you can't be expected as one person to go to every single one of those people and say what exactly do you need and I will do that for you but it's about using the resources that you've got on the people that you've got so I had a team of I think there was about eight in my team I didn't line manage them directly but they were the kind of healthcare coordinators who were sat at each centre so being able to use their expertise and their resource and have them be able to actually say [06:58] you know I can go to the hundred 200 volunteers that I've got in my centre and really ask them to take this to them and get them to kind of workshop it essentially that was really really helpful at comic we're talking about maybe like 150 to 200 people and so it's a lot easier in that respect to really have that those conversations that make the difference I would say though if it's an organization of a much larger scale absolutely utilize resource things like it goes back to kind of disclosure rates and prefer not to say and all that kind of stuff with your engagement surveys or your onboarding when when people come in really trying to use that data to then inform decisions but don't be afraid to go out and ask the like [07:37] really hard questions and I'm hoping that we can kind of touch on that a little bit later around having those courageous conversations and as an organisation being able to say look I'll hold our hands up we're really you know struggling to be able to get this right we need people to support us with that we need some like kind of extra extra conversation around this please help us workshop it and having that humility to kind of ask I think it's really really important absolutely and I think a lot of what you're saying as well is obviously having you know more than just that sort of one person sat there that's running this or you know and sort of coming up with these strategies and it's actually having you know [08:15] workshops and teams of people and really including people in like sort of what's going on and and how that comes to look so I think at the moment you're currently implementing an organization wide sort of approach to cultural intelligence at Comic Relief and and when I first spoke to you that was really interesting to me the cultural intelligence so I really wanna hear more about that and what that looks like at Comic Relief and I suppose also how that could look for other businesses yeah absolutely so there's so many articles it's um I I suppose kind of definition of it would be helpful to kind of start for those who don't know what cultural intelligence is but yeah fundamentally it's recognizing that your [08:51] own perspective is not a universal perspective so being able to understand the ways in which people tick work communicate interact differently and using that to your advantage when you're having a conversation with them so we could be having this conversation now you might be really really high power distance I'm quite low power distance so how if we're in a meeting and we're talking about next steps for a project how am I going to flex to meet your high power distance and how can you flex to meet my low power distance so how we gonna meet in the middle to get the best out of each other if that makes sense and when you say a high power distance and low power distance what do you mean by that term exactly [09:28] just so people listening can yeah so for example around um seniority you might um view your manager as someone who is completely and utterly your manager nothing else it's very kind of business transactional whereas I might see my manager as maybe not a friend if that's the wrong term but someone that I can kind of have a bit of a laugh and a joke with that I send a couple of emails that maybe I would use terminology that I'd use with my friends I don't necessarily see there there's no barrier there for me to feel comfortable to go to my manager with any kind of problem or any uh request that I have whereas a high power distance person might say actually oh I don't know whether this is appropriate [10:08] to speak to my manager I'm gonna hold on to that and kind of figure it out myself so there's I mean that's just one example but there's there's loads of behavioural preferences that come up in cultural intelligence that you can kind of track and map um they do it based on kind of geographical descent so Anglo the kind of greater wider world than just the kind of Anglo and Nordic elements you've got America in there as well you know that there's so many different it's really interesting the basis on which it's founded but ultimately it's about how you flex and how you meet that other person so within cultural intelligence there's four key capabilities so you've got it's called CQ for short so your CQ drive your CQ knowledge [10:46] your CQ action and your CQ strategy so when you take an assessment it's a little bit like a strength scope or like a 3 60 assessment where you can kind of map out how you are as a person or your your colour is it colour preference hmm I'm not sure what what that one is but I've heard about that one I think we do we've done a little bit of that here with sort of mapping that and you know whether you're a yellow or maybe you're a little bit blue and you're a little bit yellow so you've got the sort of analytical side in there with the blues and then with the yellows just you know quite a lot of creativity and hmm red and people that are quite direct so yeah I think we've done quite a lot of that [11:23] in terms of the sort of colour mapping mm hmm and where we are but I think that there's sort of a cultural intelligence that you're working on it is that one step further isn't it is that is that broader on how you work with others and and yeah exactly I think the beauty about cultural intelligence whilst it's really great obviously in work it's fantastic personally as well so you take that assessment which is really really similar and you answer all of these questions and then it maps you based on the kind of world average and it's a really really consistent framework it's very highly accredited originated in America the centre of Cultural Intelligence is a fantastic resource if you want to have a look at that [12:00] and at any point there's loads of different kind of articles and different pieces of research there but um you can see kind of what your areas for improvement are and I think whilst that's great professionally you can kind of see what you need to work on actually personally as well it's fantastic so it's all about that strategy what are you gonna do to improve your cultural intelligence so I said there about kind of conversations no one conversation could be interpreted the same way so people depending on their background of where they're from their kind of socio economic background as an example their sexuality perhaps all of that kind of comes into play when you're having a conversation and being able to dissect that and understand it [12:37] it really makes you feel intelligent I genuinely feel sometimes like the most intelligent person in the room because I can understand and I can see and I can translate different cultural differences into a really productive conversation with outcomes that benefit both parties if that makes sense yeah it's just brilliant so in terms of what that is a comic ha ha and we as a new starter you will undertake cultural intelligence training every single person in comic undertakes this training so we can build up a a kind of scorecard or like a a real comprehensive set of data that lets us know as an organization where do we sit are we really high in our cultural understanding are we really high in our action [13:17] and are we really low in our strategy you can kind of see in that again influences and decides where work needs to be done in each of those areas and so it's a really really helpful resource and it's part of the kind of yeah onboarding suite that new starters would do no I think that's great and I think it's something definitely for sort of like all organizations to really think about especially right from the start when people are onboarded you know not two years down the line and exactly and actually you know starting it that way so it sounds it sounds great what you're doing the project sounds fantastic I'm gonna switch gears a little bit because I'm interested to know about you wrote and implemented Sue Ryder's LGBTQ strategy [13:54] I believe so I'm I'm really interested to hear a bit more about that and and what you would sort of what advice would you give to another organization that wants to build a similar strategy but isn't quite sure where they want to start with it yeah so it goes back to kind of what I was saying before around listening and going out to people and talking so if you've already identified that there's a need for that that's fantastic and depending on where that policy or strategy is sitting and who's going to be writing it things might differ slightly so for us the network kind of led on that policy we at the strategy sorry and we used our members we used the wider network and then we also went on our HR team people team [14:32] quite a lot of the other networks as well because I think when you're talking about strategy and policy you need to be looking at that through an intersectional lens so first kind of absolute key piece of advice is use your employee network groups they are such a vital resource full of really really passionate people and and that shouldn't be taken for for granted yeah second piece of advice I would definitely say go out to people who are experiencing that and that might be via the networks but go out and talk to them about what do they think the need for this strategy is or that policy why why is it being put in place for example if we're talking about a trans and non binary policy for someone who isn't trans or non binary [15:11] you shouldn't be writing that policy yourself completely you should absolutely be going and leaning on people and being able to use their expertise to to make that the best that it can be so again going through the networks talking to people don't be afraid to use external sources so there's loads of brilliant organisations that consult and support on various different policy and strategy writing in the EDI space and but it is it is all about listening and it's about having the guts to go and say we're really stuck and we don't know what this needs to look like like please help us we recognize and there's the intent there we recognize that we need a policy but we just don't know what that should look like [15:45] and that's okay that's absolutely fine yeah I think again if we're talking about that intent we're talking about organisational culture and inclusion being kind of embedded within that and there was a really interesting I can't remember what year it is but it's from Mckinsey Mckinsey have some brilliant um research papers around EDI and inclusion but they very much pointed to the importance of embedding that inclusion in um organizational culture and leadership as opposed to getting a kind of stand alone initiative and that's sometimes where it can be a bit tricky if you're treating that as one separate thing to the rest of your suite of policies are we really hitting that Mark there and if included I think actually [16:23] like why you just mentioned that we're talking about employees and we're talking about leadership I think it's really probably quite important actually when these strategies are being written and looked at that the the leadership teams are very much aware and understand those strategies as well so something that we do at many town you know when we've got and things like that where we are discussing how things should look and the the culture that we want that conversation does begin with the whole leadership team no matter what part of the business they're in because that's where you see it filter down from so you know it's not the employees necessarily sort of across the business but actually [17:01] let's start with the sort of leadership team and let's then embed those values and cultural differences into everybody else in the business absolutely I think it's so important to have leadership modelling behaviours and values and not just company values and the kind of strap line of like we welcome everybody but to actually have that conversation and think recognise where maybe you've fallen down in the past but equally with that you know starting that conversation with leaders and then inviting network chairs for example into that conversation so they've got a voice at the table where decisions are actually being made I think that's really really important and something that we're looking at [17:36] a comic relief is kind of leadership development programs for chairs to not only go into a room and kind of have a discussion but position them as strategic enablers to that discussion so how are they gonna enter that room and say we need X amount of money because we need to do this this this and this with the network that's all great but actually how then do you position that conversation where we know senior leaders want to hear about how does that ladder up to strategy how is that gonna be a return on investment how are we gonna you know use that to further the brand or push the the the the recognition of comic relief out there so how are we gonna position those network chairs to have those conversations [18:13] with senior leaders who will ultimately make that decision who knows who knows but it's a it's a really really really really important thing to consider as well is is are you upskilling people who who do need to have a voice at the table to be able to have that conversation constructively yeah absolutely I think that leads me on quite nicely actually so one of my questions I had was you know there's there is that risk I think as well in in some organizations that you know sometimes the EDI and culture work and things like that can become a little bit of a tick box exercise to some people though you know some companies may see it that way and and actually it's it's how we change that mindset [18:46] but how do you make sure that sort of the initiatives that you're leading how do you make sure that they have sort of like real measurable impact rather than just sort of having good intentions behind it but how do you measure that within the within the company yeah I suppose I would always start by ask what am I what am I actually trying to change what's the goal here I mean take the rainbow badge that I kind of mentioned earlier as a as an example here we didn't just sort of distribute a badge and say oh here you are you know you're a visible ally you're a visible member of the community you've undertaken this training and here's your badge it was really really really important to make sure that [19:20] that was at the heart of it but in a more uh concrete ways taken training which was developed by people who were LGBTQ+ who have gone to external organizations to ask about give us some examples of you know past experiences that people have had and it was all about creating that kind of visible symbol so yes we distributed badges but it was a visible symbol that you undertook that training and it was needed it was necessary and you enjoyed it and you you Learned from it so around metrics we kind of set the metric of 500 people within the first year and I think within a year and a half we were at 4,000 just over 4,000 people that had undertaken that training so it's today I hope still maybe fingers crossed [20:01] the most up taken optional training module at Sue Ryder and so that's like a really good metric if you're talking about training for example or just putting a number on something that you can reach is a great metric to have but the the numbers aren't necessarily that whole story so I think when you're going to get feedback afterwards and being able to ask around again I'm kind of looking at it from a training lens here but what people understood differently and whether your confidence had changed so having that kind of pulse check at the start where are you currently on a scale of 1 to 10 from a knowledge perspective and then afterwards is a really good good measure inviting feedback and creating a feedback culture [20:40] again it's a really really positive one so you're you can ask for feedback at the end of a training module but the goal would be for people to give you feedback without having to have that prompt if that makes sense so feedback culture also it's so multifaceted isn't it this the whole world of EDI but feedback culture is is really important and I think that speaks to your point around how things not becoming a tick box exercise because having a really strong feedback culture asking courageous conversations not being afraid to kind of use different feedback models where you're not just looking back but looking at how you can improve again will really really strengthen the kind of presence of EDI and I [21:12] and it not becoming just a I'm gonna have to do this because it looks good on our annual report or it looks good on whatever you're posting online kind of thing so I guess that's kind of a couple of metrics there and I guess also looking at does it have influence does what you're trying to do have an influence do leadership listen is it informing policy is it changing somebody's experience are you giving that voice back to people I keep talking and bring it back to that employee voice because it's so so important yeah good intentions are a real starting point but I think the impact to using those kind of measurable outcomes that's where the the real outcome is and that's where you'll see the benefit [21:46] absolutely and it's taking that you know and it being from sort of you we can look at data and we can say OK you know how is this done how is that done but actually like you say it's that feedback it's the sort of how people are feeling I suppose as well in their day to day work and in the environment and all of those kind of things that really actually show one of this isn't just a tick box exercise this is actually this is what it's creating in the workplace absolutely there's been some really nice examples so we don't we at comic we do like a kind of quarterly d E I B theme where we go out to the organisation with a Powerpoint and they can use that within their teams and and the most recent quarterly [22:23] theme was around feedback culture so we gave them a couple of models that they could use so um SPI as an example so situation behaviour and impact describing that situation the behaviour that you observed and then the impact using that to then feed forward this is what happened that was the behaviour I observed and this was the impact how are you then gonna kind of improve going forward and it was the first piece of work that I actually delivered at comic I thought oh this is really nice that we have this and then I delivered a presentation in our all staff meeting we have um a weekly meeting every Monday where the whole organization comes together to the presentation and then somebody gave me some feedback afterwards [23:01] via email and I said oh you've probably without realizing but you've used the kind of feedback models that we were talking about there and you've given me feedback that I can genuinely use to drive forward and I was like that was I think that was a really turning point for me to be like this is really cool yeah like that is taken seriously and it's you know used effectively yeah and that's great I think at the moment so at at many times one of the things we do we have post surveys that go out every month where we sort of send it out to sort of all the employees and it's basically sort of putting your finger on the pulse and seeing how everyone's feeling and you know getting that feedback and I think you know [23:36] we're actually compared to maybe where we were a few years ago I think we're in a much better place where people are coming forward with feedback and ideas and how they're feeling at work and things like that and I think for us it's striving to get to that place where like you say people do come to you with feedback and as a place for that prompting of you know and I think at the moment you know a lot of organizations are still in a place where there is that real prompt for the feedback and yeah like you say with the sort of cultural inclusivity and and those things it actually then enables people to look at how they work how others work and I think it opens it up for I don't know for some people at work to [24:14] to want to bring feedback forward to to understand how they can work better with others and and all of those kind of things so there's there's a lot of really interesting sort of topics in there yeah 100% and and on that kind of cultural intelligence point around it's not a tick box exercise in that you do it when you join Comic Relief and then that's it and we've developed to train the trainer model so I've been trained to deliver cultural intelligence sessions within Comic Relief and and keep that conversation going so every few months we'll check in with various different teams do a couple of exercises with them and as much as everybody hates being interactive and you know getting up and standing in a room [24:50] and doing really silly active it really really helps and and it brings it to life so again from a TikTok exercise point of view I know I spoke a little bit about consistency earlier but making sure that that your projects and your kind of plans and training and all that kind of extra stuff that you offer is consistent that's really really important and so for us that looks like you know three or four cultural intelligence sessions throughout the year whenever we are developing or putting anything out there to the wider organization there's always at least a couple of lines in there about think about your cultural intelligence how does this link to CQ strategy how does it link to CQ action so it's constantly kind of on people's minds [25:25] which is really really important and again that fosters that culture of a learning B feedback but also just intelligence yeah that's amazing and looking ahead what do you see as like the next big opportunity for like culture and inclusion at work so whether that's that comic relief specifically or just for organization any organization yeah I think it's it's really tricky isn't it I couldn't really come on here without talking about AI I feel like AI is on everybody's minds and everybody's probably got a very very different take on it I'm personally really excited about the kind of opportunity that it creates and coming from you know Gen Z the way in which we use um AI I think the Microsoft Work Trends 2025 [26:05] survey found that 80% of people use AI in their day to day work that's really important and it's really good the thing where it comes into cultural intelligence is being able to understand what how does that human lens and that human judgement play into it and that I think is really important so it can obviously help us analyse that data fantastic it can identify patterns brilliant but it can't replace that empathy and it also importantly more importantly maybe even most importantly replace that lived experience so I think being able to work with AI to develop a couple of points for things that you want to talk about or help it rejigger a statement to help it land better that's that's great [26:40] but never ever ever forget to use your human judgement and that gift that you've been given to talk and to bring that to people and get lived experience involved in that conversation that's so important it should never ever be forgotten but I think the main point that I wanted to talk to on this on this question was around moving inclusion from something that organizations do and we touched on it about being a tick box exercise to something that organizations actually are and I think most organisations are are really great at at writing strategies and hosting awareness days and training and all that kind of stuff but I think we're at a point now where we need to ask the harder questions and what actually changes because of those strategies [27:19] or those policies I think transparency is gonna be really important and I touched on it slightly about having that transparency and that humility to say I don't know what I'm doing here like I'm coming to you for advice and I'm coming to you to give your lived experience and your idea that's really important and I think what looking at again I'm very very research based I love research Pwc did a really interesting hopes and fears research in 2025 and it found that trust in leadership is strongly associated with motivation and only half of workers said their team treats failure as an opportunity to learn and grow and that is so powerful to me that is so so powerful how do you shift that conversation [27:51] to the willingness to learn the willingness to grow the willingness to be transparent particularly when you're trying to attract new talent we know that Gen Z appreciate people being honest and being upfront and and out there how are you then gonna change that so yeah transparency AI making sure that we're bringing that lift experience to the front and asking those really hard questions what's actually gonna change I think that's what needs to happen no that's fantastic it's interesting cause a lot of people I'm speaking to at the moment there's it always comes up in conversation somewhere along the way is this generational shift so what's you know what's important to to different generations [28:25] and and what's actually expected and I think it is expected now you know to go into an organization and for them to like you say be inclusive and and have that that workplace culture that you know people feel sort of comfortable in we've obviously spoken about quite a lot of different topics and there's so much work that you're doing I think for me I'm really interested to know what would be your almost your sort of one piece of advice to any organizations or people that are listening to the podcast that are going do you know what we are we are trying but actually what more could we do or we're not doing enough where do we start what would kind of be your your piece of advice to those people [29:04] I think it's taking stock of where you are so making sure that you you know we say we know that we need to do more but what have you done and use that as a positive because I'm sure there are things in there that you've done which are really really important and are really great and good steps but actually one of the key things that I say all the time is have that willingness to unlearn I think there's a real culture across the third sector well in fact across every sector even through talking to my friends talking about EDI there's that constant but you know what's happening in America or things weren't like this x many years ago unlearn unlearn that and be able to kind of do your research [29:41] and again talk to people listen to stories go to conferences go to events you could say I this is the day that I'm gonna start putting EDI in my organization is something that we are we are a diverse and equitable organization and an inclusive one it's not something that we do it's something that we are so today I'm gonna make sure that I look for a conference that is essentially a 1:01 what does that look like in practice tomorrow I'm going to have a chat to various different teams and give them a couple of policies and see if there's anything in there that we need to change I think really small steps to start with are really important and I don't think personally that feels like a tick box exercise [30:22] I think that's someone genuinely going out there talking to people trying to learn bringing that back to senior leaders and saying look this is kind of a brief very very brief overview of kind of where we're at how is this affecting the sector how is this affecting our organisation have a look at data maybe do a 3 to 5 year data review how many people have you hired from all the different kind of protected characteristics that are listed in the Equality Act how many of those are you hitting what does that look like in practice how do your networks feel have you got any staff networks is that something you could set up is that something you could look at the CIPD have a fantastic manual on setting up and [31:00] staff network groups I think that's really good it's really good starting point look into different organisation alternatives bring other people in if you don't feel comfortable doing it yourself but the key thing is to start whether it is going to a conference about EDI 1:01 what does that look like whether it is going out to someone saying do you think any of these policies are a little bit there's anything wrong with them is there anything we need to change here thinking from a kind of inclusive lens is there anything that we need to change that's a really good start that's a really really good start and I think having the intent there is really important and again positioning it as this is something our organization is [31:34] as opposed to this is something our organization does yeah I love that and I think that's actually probably a really good like strap lines take away from today something we've spoken about quite a lot and yeah like you say it's getting curious isn't it it's asking those questions it's being open minded and and not assuming that you know what you used to know and and yeah talking to a lot more a lot more people so that's that's fantastic and I think today like we've taken away so many different insights to to different things you know where we've spoken about cultural intelligence I think that's something that you know for for us I'm really interested to to look further into I think it would be so beneficial [32:15] and for other businesses as well I think you know the work that you've done with the LGBTQ training and the community is is fantastic I'd be really interested to uh for you to share with us actually some of the training platforms and things that you used when you did that cause I think that would be really helpful to share not just with our organization but with with the organizations and people that are listening as well yeah absolutely I think so with the rainbow badge training at See Righto because it was for both paid staff and volunteers as volunteers we had a kind of secret part of the website it was all very very grandiose and called the Volunteer Hub so on that it was basically just a website [32:53] but there was no specific kind of training platform that we would use so for the volunteer version of the rainbow badge training it was slightly different to the staff one that was a video so we made a Powerpoint and we kind of talked through it used captions all that kind of stuff and again with the kind of content on there we had real life examples members of staff who were in the network who wanted to share their story as part of that training so that was kind of done by by a video we also used an organization called Powtunes so for some of the volunteer training that I created Powtunes was really great for me because I think there's nothing worse than clicking through a Powerpoint with no speech to text or anything like that [33:32] it was purely just just words on a page so Powtoon is really great and I don't think it cost us that much if I'm honest we created like little animated figures and you can kind of move them around and get them to talk and you can add human voice as well another thing that we thought was really important was having a variety of human voices talking over training so where people thankfully from all across the UK with a range of different accents that we would use on our training so it felt like if you were switching off maybe from the training you'd heard an accent that was from where you're from and you're suddenly back in the room it was really really nice to to kind of have that variety for the staff version oh [34:07] you're testing me I can't remember what we what platform we used I know we use Seizan a comic um both the HR and we'll be using possibly them for um our learning and development we've used skills cast before all really great platforms that are really accessible and have a variety of kind of different functionalities when it comes to changing text size changing colours and backgrounds that kind of thing and but I guess yeah just using trying to figure out if you are looking to kind of change softwares if you're using that I'd always put again think about the accessibility and we did an accessibility audit at comic at comic and it was insane the kind of things that you wouldn't necessarily normally [34:45] think about that actually you think oh we should probably change that I we will change that and so that was that was really insightful that was through the BDF the Business Disability Forum great well what we'll do is after we sort of want to broadcast those live we'll share a lot of links and a lot of sort of information and data sources where people can go and and actually start to learn and and have a look at these things and see what they could be doing within their organisation but it's been so incredibly great to speak to you and find out all the different things that you have done and continue to do and at both comic and and where you were previously and I'm hoping that sort of everyone listening will take away [35:26] just as much as I have actually from from the conversation so thank you so much no no worries I know we talked only a very brief point here but um before I run kind of those steps and they kind of couple of quotes and it's a quote that just came to me that I use in my personal life all the time but I think it it's really really translatable to EDI and it's um I feel really uncomfortable I must be growing and I think that just speaks to EDI like it can be really uncomfortable it can be really challenging but you're growing as a person as an organization as you're taking those steps if I can give one takeaway quote it would be I feel uncomfortable I'm not to be going no I love that I think that's what we'll name this episode of the podcast [36:06] hahaha I love that yes yes yes oh it's been so great having you Eddie thank you so much and yeah we will absolutely stay in contact with all the wonderful work that you're doing thank you so much thank you anytime it's been brilliant thanks so much