Latest / The Kenny Report / The Kenny Report | 12 September

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The Kenny Report | 12 September · The Kenny Report

0:01
Speaker 1: Lone from the skying New Center.
0:03
Speaker 2: This is the Kenny Report. Thanks for joining me in politics.
0:08
Speaker 2: Big changes to age care, the cost of living crisis,
0:12
Speaker 2: ducking responsibility and Labour's smugglers. We'll get to all that.
0:16
Speaker 2: The smugness, I should say now. Defense Force officers too
0:20
Speaker 2: have been stripped of Distinguished Service medals over Afghanistan war
0:24
Speaker 2: crimes allegations is the most extremism. And the lessons from
0:29
Speaker 2: the sickening and violent protests in Melbourne, the fallout from
0:33
Speaker 2: the US presidential debate as Joe Biden Don's trump cap.
0:37
Speaker 2: Also indigenous groups up in arms over dodgy claims, the
0:41
Speaker 2: war on gas, plus Tim Blair and Mark Nicholson and
0:44
Speaker 2: plenty more. Let's get started. In Parliament today there was
0:51
Speaker 2: news of a big breakthrough on aged care. The Coalition
0:54
Speaker 2: has done a deal with the Albanezy Labor government for
0:57
Speaker 2: age care reforms that are expected to make the sector
1:01
Speaker 2: more efficient and affordable over the long term, but people
1:04
Speaker 2: in future will pay more for their care. We'll talk
1:07
Speaker 2: more about all that later, but the Coalition attack on
1:11
Speaker 2: the government in question time zeroed in on the cost
1:14
Speaker 2: of living, on the way Labor has broken its promises
1:17
Speaker 2: to reduce the cost of living, cut power prices and
1:20
Speaker 2: push inflation and interest rates down. And more to the point,
1:25
Speaker 2: there was a focus on labor ducking responsibility for all
1:29
Speaker 2: of its mismanagement.
1:31
Speaker 3: Will the Prime Minister take responsibility for Labour's bad decisions
1:34
Speaker 3: over the last two years which have taken our country
1:37
Speaker 3: in the wrong direction and hurt Australian families.
1:40
Speaker 4: Will the treasure take responsibility for Labour's bad decisions over
1:43
Speaker 4: the last two years?
1:44
Speaker 2: Well, the treasure that take responsibility for Labour's bad decisions
1:47
Speaker 2: over the last two years, which you have taken our
1:50
Speaker 2: country in the wrong direction and hurt Australian families. Will
1:54
Speaker 2: they take responsibility? Now, of course Labor doesn't show any
1:57
Speaker 2: remorse for the cost of living crisis. Instead they just
2:01
Speaker 2: show smugness.
2:03
Speaker 5: I'll take responsibility for the fact that we have faster
2:07
Speaker 5: economic growth than Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the United
2:13
Speaker 5: States and the UK.
2:15
Speaker 1: This is what NICKI said about myself on a State
2:18
Speaker 1: treasurer Queensland. This is what NICKI said, and I'm quoting.
2:21
Speaker 1: How good is it? Two logan boys are running the
2:24
Speaker 1: finances for the country and for Queensland.
2:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, what a fine job they're doing in their own
2:31
Speaker 2: minds at least, But what about that refusal to take
2:34
Speaker 2: real responsibility? I highlighted it back in May and found
2:39
Speaker 2: the perfect anthem for it. But when are we ever
2:42
Speaker 2: going to see this book take responsibility for anything?
2:46
Speaker 6: I've been traveling in the car, so I haven't been
2:53
Speaker 6: advised about that. Of course, the state bail schemes are
2:57
Speaker 6: run by the state.
3:00
Speaker 2: You know. As we play these clips of Albow, constantly
3:03
Speaker 2: ducking for cover, constantly avoiding responsibility, it reminded me of
3:07
Speaker 2: an old song I'd seen used at a political event
3:11
Speaker 2: way back in the early nineteen nineties. Yeah, that's him,
3:25
Speaker 2: isn't it. That's elbow to a t.
3:28
Speaker 7: Yeah.
3:29
Speaker 2: We've had some fun with that ever since, haven't we.
3:31
Speaker 2: And this is now becoming a theme right across Parliament. Well,
3:36
Speaker 2: where's the alban Ezi lake?
3:38
Speaker 8: Who come ever ever going to take responsibility for anything
3:43
Speaker 8: it does?
3:44
Speaker 2: Does the treasure take responsibility for twelve? Interest rate increases responsibility?
3:50
Speaker 2: That is the word, and that's what's missing. As you know,
3:53
Speaker 2: we're now hearing this version of the song on Ray
3:56
Speaker 2: Hadley's two GB program. An ju I've got a feeling
4:17
Speaker 2: we might hear this song right the way through to
4:20
Speaker 2: the election campaign. It's worth doing a bit of a
4:26
Speaker 2: reality check today, a bit of a stock take on
4:29
Speaker 2: where we're at with Islamist extremism and terrorism in this
4:32
Speaker 2: country right now. The timing couldn't be more appropriate because
4:37
Speaker 2: yesterday the ugly and violent protests in Melbourne, masquerading as
4:41
Speaker 2: an anti war rally, actually supported the demands of the
4:45
Speaker 2: bloodthirsty terrorist outfit of Hummus that started a war in
4:50
Speaker 2: the Middle East by unleashing an unspeakable atrocity on October
4:54
Speaker 2: the seventh last year. So it was supposed to be
4:57
Speaker 2: a peace protest, but at least one man was happily
5:01
Speaker 2: chanting the names of terrorist organizations like Hummas and Hezbollah.
5:07
Speaker 9: Had husband lah llah Llah not bak Hony, not Bako holody.
5:16
Speaker 2: What he said A baah Yeah. Sickening stuff and deeply worrying,
5:21
Speaker 2: isn't it. And the timing couldn't be more distressing because
5:25
Speaker 2: not only are we approaching the one year anniversary of
5:28
Speaker 2: the October the seventh terrorist invasion against Israel and Israelis,
5:32
Speaker 2: but yesterday, of course, was the twenty third anniversary of
5:36
Speaker 2: the unimaginable attack in the United States, the attack that
5:40
Speaker 2: changed the world in an instant. What's happening comes back? Yes,
6:04
Speaker 2: it was twenty three years ago today that most Australians
6:08
Speaker 2: were waking up to that news and all the fear
6:11
Speaker 2: and uncertainty that came with it. Nine to eleven was
6:14
Speaker 2: the moment when the war on terrorism became necessary. And
6:18
Speaker 2: while some people look to deny it or avoid it,
6:20
Speaker 2: that war is ongoing. Over the past couple of decades,
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Speaker 2: we've lost about two hundred Australians to terrorist attacks overseas
6:29
Speaker 2: and at home, and in the war against terrorist actors
6:32
Speaker 2: in Afghanistan, it started with ten Australians being among the
6:36
Speaker 2: almost three thousand people killed on nine to eleven. We've
6:39
Speaker 2: also lost scores of people in Indonesia and others in
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Speaker 2: Britain and Turkey and the Middle East and elsewhere. And
6:47
Speaker 2: of course attacks have occurred in Australia, killing at least
6:50
Speaker 2: six innocent victims here, while other plots have been thwarted.
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Speaker 2: So it's worth reminding those ignorant and violent protesters when
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Speaker 2: they seek to legitimized terrorist organizations like Hummas and Hezbala,
7:04
Speaker 2: they need to be reminded just what Islamist extremism means
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Speaker 2: and just how it invariably leads to the slaughter of
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Speaker 2: innocent people. In fact, it's worth reminding them about what
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Speaker 2: happened on nine to eleven in the Palestinian territories. Here's
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Speaker 2: some news coverage from two thousand and one, immediately after
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Speaker 2: nearly three thousand innocent people were killed in that horrific
7:29
Speaker 2: attack on America that.
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Speaker 10: We're going to show you from the West Bank. These
7:34
Speaker 10: are Palestinian celebrations in the week of Tuesday's terror attacks
7:38
Speaker 10: in the United States. How apparently Palestinians took to the street,
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Speaker 10: channing artist grief. People were throwing candy, distributing candy to
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Speaker 10: passers by.
8:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, the lack of humanity is difficult to grasp, isn't it.
8:06
Speaker 2: But it gives us some important context for the hatred
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Speaker 2: and violence unleashed to this day by Hummus. And it
8:14
Speaker 2: beggars belief that Australian protesters could lend any support to
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Speaker 2: the evil cause of humm Us. It's a hateful death
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Speaker 2: cult and it needs to be defeated. Look on the
8:29
Speaker 2: back of that, let me just show you an example
8:31
Speaker 2: of the better side of human nature, an example of
8:34
Speaker 2: our better angels in action. It happened in Nashville, Tennessee,
8:38
Speaker 2: and it involves someone famous, which is why it's getting
8:41
Speaker 2: a lot of attention. But at its heart, it's just
8:45
Speaker 2: people looking out for strangers. On this pedestrian bridge over
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Speaker 2: the Cumberland River. The arrow points to a woman on
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Speaker 2: the left who has climbed over the railing and looks
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Speaker 2: to be contemplating a jump. Now, some people just walk
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Speaker 2: on by. The arrow points to rock and roll star
9:02
Speaker 2: John bon Jovi and his crew who were on the
9:05
Speaker 2: bridge doing some filming. Bon Jovi and one of his
9:09
Speaker 2: crew gently wander over. They don't rush this woman. They
9:14
Speaker 2: start talking to her. They get closer, and they coax
9:18
Speaker 2: her back, helping her onto the safe side of the railing,
9:22
Speaker 2: and they embrace and reassure her in safety. Good work
9:27
Speaker 2: by John bon Jovi and his colleague. Let's hope this
9:30
Speaker 2: woman never sinks that low again. Today is are You OK? Day?
9:34
Speaker 2: So that's a pretty good example and a good reminder
9:37
Speaker 2: to look out for others. Now, let's stay in the
9:43
Speaker 2: US and go to the wash up from the presidential debate.
9:45
Speaker 2: Almost sixty million Americans tuned into the debate. That's about
9:50
Speaker 2: ten percent more than watch the debate between Joe Biden
9:53
Speaker 2: and Donald Trump, and lord knows how many people watched
9:56
Speaker 2: it right around the world. There's been plenty of commentary
9:59
Speaker 2: about the model, the political bias of the ABC News team,
10:03
Speaker 2: and there's a pretty broad consensus, of course, that Kamala
10:06
Speaker 2: Harris won the debate, although I've got to say some
10:09
Speaker 2: of the coverage was way over the top. Here in Australia,
10:12
Speaker 2: the nine media newspapers ran a former Democrat and Labor
10:17
Speaker 2: staffer saying that Harris sliced and diced Trump. That was
10:21
Speaker 2: more wishful thinking than reality. But there's no doubt that
10:25
Speaker 2: Harris enhanced her standing with her well rehearsed lines. The
10:30
Speaker 2: funniest reactions have been some of the social media memes
10:34
Speaker 2: taking up Donald Trump's claims about pets being.
10:37
Speaker 7: Eaten, eating the dogs, the people that came in. They're
10:41
Speaker 7: eating the cats, they're eating They're eating the pets of
10:46
Speaker 7: the people that lived there.
10:49
Speaker 2: You're going to fiel for that dog. Or there was
10:52
Speaker 2: this one showing some pets who are not taking any
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Speaker 2: chances rich Am. This election it's all about eating cats
11:12
Speaker 2: and dogs and cat ladies and all the rest. Of it.
11:14
Speaker 2: As to the facts, well, there are plenty of unverified
11:17
Speaker 2: claims about pets being made online. Noticeably they're not being
11:22
Speaker 2: shared by the official Republican or Trump accounts. But Donald
11:27
Speaker 2: Trump Junior did share what is purportedly a police call
11:31
Speaker 2: in August about geese. I see a group of Asian people.
11:38
Speaker 2: There was about four of them.
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Speaker 7: They all had geese in their hands.
11:44
Speaker 2: How much more bizarre can US politics get. We'll have
11:48
Speaker 2: to keep watching and see. But as for whether or
11:51
Speaker 2: not we'll see another debate, we don't know yet. The
11:53
Speaker 2: Harris camp is calling for another one, and my hunch
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Speaker 2: would be that Trump can hardly say no. That would
12:00
Speaker 2: make him look weak. We'll see. But let me just
12:03
Speaker 2: show you one of the strangest turns of events any
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Speaker 2: of us could have predicted. Joe Biden was out campaigning
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Speaker 2: and he made a joke, yeah, a joke about not
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Speaker 2: remembering his name. And then have a look at what
12:16
Speaker 2: happens as he signs and hands over a presidential hat
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Speaker 2: for a Trump supporter.
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Speaker 11: There you go, man, I forgot I need that hat.
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Speaker 2: Hell nor, I ain't going out for.
12:47
Speaker 7: I'm prow you now.
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Speaker 11: I remember knowing Gordon Cats.
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Speaker 2: That's got to be the funniest, the sharpest that President
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Speaker 2: Joe Biden has sounded for a long while. Let's go
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Speaker 2: down to the nation's capital now and catch up with
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Speaker 2: National MP and Formal Resources Minister Keith Pitt. Thanks for
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Speaker 2: joining us. Keith. First up, I want to get your
13:16
Speaker 2: thoughts on the government's stripping medals off. We don't know
13:21
Speaker 2: the number of medals or the number of officers who
13:23
Speaker 2: have been stripped, but certainly some medals stripped off officers
13:28
Speaker 2: because they were overseeing operations in Afghanistan under which there
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Speaker 2: are war crimes allegations. Do you support this.
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Speaker 3: Move well, Chris, it's the decision that's been made by
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Speaker 3: the government. It's got support from the Shadow minister. But
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Speaker 3: the message I actually want to give is to all
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Speaker 3: of our veterans, into every single one of our serving personnel,
13:49
Speaker 3: and that is they responded to the government of the
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Speaker 3: day's call. They defended our nation. They did what was
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Speaker 3: asked of them. I've never been in service. I can
13:56
Speaker 3: only imagine how difficult it is to be in a
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Speaker 3: conflict zone. Snap second decisions, the things that have to
14:01
Speaker 3: be done that there will be mistakes that are made.
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Speaker 3: We've seen that in the current conflict in the Middle East.
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Speaker 3: But we support them, and I think it's incredibly important
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Speaker 3: to all those individuals who are out there right now
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Speaker 3: who might be feeling that this is a difficult decision.
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Speaker 3: You still have the support of your country and its people,
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Speaker 3: and I think that's an important message sent.
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Speaker 2: It's very important, and I concur with that we do
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Speaker 2: support them, and I think in many respects it's very
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Speaker 2: unfair to be judging those events years later on the
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Speaker 2: other side of the world, when there's such chaos in
14:32
Speaker 2: Afghanistan and it's difficult to get to the truth. But
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Speaker 2: I place a lot of store on this issue in
14:38
Speaker 2: what your colleague Andrew Hasty has to say, especially because
14:42
Speaker 2: of his tours as a sas officer in Afghanistan. And
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Speaker 2: let's have a look at some of what he had
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Speaker 2: to say in Parliament today.
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Speaker 4: I believe that our troops were let down by a
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Speaker 4: lack of moral courage that went up the chain of
14:55
Speaker 4: command all the way to Canberra, including in this House.
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Speaker 4: Those in the chain of command who saw the post
15:01
Speaker 4: mission slide decks with the kill counts and pictures of
15:06
Speaker 4: dead individuals had an obligation to ask questions from Taran
15:11
Speaker 4: Court to Kubble, to candor heart to do buy it
15:14
Speaker 4: to camera, excuse me, those in the chain of command
15:21
Speaker 4: should have asked more questions.
15:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a very important point. Obviously very emotional there
15:26
Speaker 2: Andrew Hassey, but it's a very important point that he raises,
15:30
Speaker 2: and it also raises the question of the former head
15:32
Speaker 2: of the Army, the former CDF for Angus Campbell, and
15:37
Speaker 2: suggestions that he should hand in his medal for these
15:40
Speaker 2: operations as well. That call has been made by your
15:43
Speaker 2: colleague Keith Wallahan on Sky this afternoon.
15:52
Speaker 9: Chris.
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Speaker 3: I was there for H's contribution and he's very clearly
15:58
Speaker 3: affected because it's for him to live experience and I'll
16:02
Speaker 3: support him one hundred percent every day of the week
16:04
Speaker 3: and twice on Sundays. And I just can't equal what's
16:08
Speaker 3: happened to these guys and what they've been up to
16:10
Speaker 3: and what's happened because I.
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Speaker 2: Just it's not a lived experience for me.
16:13
Speaker 3: I can only take their advice and off the back
16:16
Speaker 3: of that, I know there's vets that are hurting, and
16:18
Speaker 3: I just I want to continue to say to every
16:20
Speaker 3: one of them that the Australian people are still with them,
16:23
Speaker 3: and this has been a very difficult period of time
16:25
Speaker 3: and a very difficult report, and I'm sure that the
16:27
Speaker 3: right actions will be taken.
16:29
Speaker 2: But do you agree with Keith Wallahan's call that Angus
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Speaker 2: Campbell should hand in his metal for this, because that
16:35
Speaker 2: would show that the very top of the leadership change
16:38
Speaker 2: that change, they accept responsibility as well. Chris.
16:43
Speaker 3: I know you'd want to guess or no answer from me,
16:45
Speaker 3: but I'm just not that close to it. I don't
16:47
Speaker 3: have the information that I could use to make a
16:49
Speaker 3: reasonable decision.
16:51
Speaker 2: No, I respect that some of stuff. I respect that,
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Speaker 2: And Keith Wallahan, of course is a veteran himself as well,
16:57
Speaker 2: so obviously much closer to it and able to make
16:59
Speaker 2: those calls. Let's switch on to another issue before I
17:01
Speaker 2: let you go, And I've got to get your thoughts
17:03
Speaker 2: on these age care reforms the coalitions agreed with the
17:06
Speaker 2: government to implement these. They'll be far reaching. Nobody in
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Speaker 2: age care now or who goes in over the next
17:12
Speaker 2: six months or so, not till July next year will
17:14
Speaker 2: the changes kick in. But necessarily people are going to
17:18
Speaker 2: end up paying more, aren't they.
17:21
Speaker 3: That's exactly right, Chris, and we should be clear on
17:24
Speaker 3: this too. The reason that a lot of age care
17:27
Speaker 3: providers are not profitable, in fact at the risk of
17:31
Speaker 3: falling over is because of the policies of the Labor Government.
17:34
Speaker 3: The changes that they've made inflation, insurance, interest rates, all
17:37
Speaker 3: of the other things that are killing business are also
17:39
Speaker 3: making it very hard in age care. They don't need
17:42
Speaker 3: more fundy, they need less costs. That would be more appropriate.
17:46
Speaker 3: But this is a bill that's been put forward by
17:48
Speaker 3: the government. It will mean higher contributions from Australians. I mean,
17:52
Speaker 3: that is just a fact, and I'd much rather take
17:56
Speaker 3: away things like you know, the one and a half
17:58
Speaker 3: trillion dollars they're spending through the proposal as there Australia
18:01
Speaker 3: has assessed or green hydrate and all of this other
18:04
Speaker 3: madness and help our age care providers delivered the service
18:08
Speaker 3: that every single Australian deserves at their time of need.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good point you make. I shut out
18:13
Speaker 2: to think about what's happened to power bills at age
18:15
Speaker 2: care centers in recent years for starters. Thanks for joining us, Keith,
18:20
Speaker 2: I appreciate it. Keith Pitt there live from Canberra. I
18:23
Speaker 2: want to now go to roy RC the former New
18:26
Speaker 2: South Wales Aboriginal Land Council chair. He joins us live
18:29
Speaker 2: from the Central Coast. We spoke to you last week,
18:32
Speaker 2: Roy about this contested indigenous heritage claim in Blainey over
18:37
Speaker 2: the gold mine tailings dam. We hear now that you
18:41
Speaker 2: and your colleagues heading up land councils right around the
18:44
Speaker 2: state are going to gather in Orange to meet over
18:47
Speaker 2: these issues. Why is the meeting happening and what's the
18:51
Speaker 2: key outcome you're looking for?
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Speaker 12: Yeah, Crystal, thanks for having me on your program. It's
18:55
Speaker 12: a it's a very important conversation that the leaders of
19:00
Speaker 12: our land rights network need to discuss because what's happened, Chres,
19:06
Speaker 12: is that this land rights system that's been around since
19:10
Speaker 12: nineteen eighty three, that you know is very integrical to
19:15
Speaker 12: hbidal people in the stating New South Wales has just
19:17
Speaker 12: been undermine just like that. You know, it's a decision
19:21
Speaker 12: that was made at the Commonwealth level and you know,
19:27
Speaker 12: I'm open that we can all come together in Orange
19:30
Speaker 12: to have a serious discussion about what this really means
19:34
Speaker 12: for us moving forward.
19:36
Speaker 2: Well, the central point here right, the central point that's
19:39
Speaker 2: been raised by this Blainey gold mine case is that
19:42
Speaker 2: you have the Orange Local Aboriginal Land Council that's approved
19:46
Speaker 2: a development on cultural heritage grounds and you've been overridden.
19:50
Speaker 2: They've been overridden by a federal minister listening to another group,
19:55
Speaker 2: not the authorized body. So surely all your land council
19:58
Speaker 2: colleagues are wondering, well, what's the point of the land
20:01
Speaker 2: councils if governments aren't going to.
20:02
Speaker 10: Listen to us.
20:04
Speaker 12: Yeah, look, I think just just for the record, Chris,
20:08
Speaker 12: the land the Orange Loke Laborage Land Council wasn't opposed
20:12
Speaker 12: to the mind exactly right.
20:14
Speaker 2: They wasn't opposed.
20:15
Speaker 12: So what that says to me is that obviously they
20:19
Speaker 12: were happy with the surveys, the side assessments, et cetera,
20:23
Speaker 12: et cetera. So what's happened here is the minister at
20:29
Speaker 12: the Commonwealth level as listened to another group. And that's
20:35
Speaker 12: very very concerning because the land Council is coppying all
20:40
Speaker 12: this negative media about well why did you change your mind?
20:45
Speaker 12: You know, they went from the facts being known, Chris,
20:48
Speaker 12: they actually went from not supporting the project to having
20:56
Speaker 12: a position of neutral. And the reason why they had
20:59
Speaker 12: a position of neutral is because the actual group that
21:03
Speaker 12: you're talking about were you know, they some of the
21:08
Speaker 12: stuff that we're putting out was fabrication. You know, it
21:11
Speaker 12: was fabricated information, and therefore the Land Council couldn't you know,
21:16
Speaker 12: they they had to change their position to be neutral,
21:21
Speaker 12: to not oppose the mind based on that information. And
21:27
Speaker 12: at the end of the day, you can't fabricate information
21:31
Speaker 12: and expect to get a project, you know, stopped on
21:35
Speaker 12: that basis because it undermines aberage or culture heritage, It
21:39
Speaker 12: undermines a land right system, and it undermines our old
21:43
Speaker 12: people's genuineness for culture heritage and who speaks for country.
21:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Tanya Plumber. Second, the federal government have
21:51
Speaker 2: to re examine this case because of these claims of fabrication.
21:55
Speaker 2: They have to get to the bottom of it. But
21:57
Speaker 2: this meeting where you're pulling everyone together, are you looking
22:00
Speaker 2: to try and get that to get the Bladey gold
22:03
Speaker 2: Mine process re examined or have you given up on
22:07
Speaker 2: that and you're just looking for more certainty right across
22:09
Speaker 2: the board.
22:10
Speaker 12: I think it's more certainty right across the board. I
22:12
Speaker 12: think it's more about the process that Orange Local Abridge
22:17
Speaker 12: and Land Councils is really concerned about the process and
22:22
Speaker 12: like they said, they didn't oppose the mind. However, our
22:28
Speaker 12: land council system needs to come together now because for
22:31
Speaker 12: the minutes that are not even talked to the local
22:35
Speaker 12: Aboriginal land Council, that in itself is disrespectful. It's disrespectful
22:41
Speaker 12: to our voice. The land light system was set up, Chris,
22:45
Speaker 12: to give Abriidinal people a voice in the state of
22:47
Speaker 12: New South Wales. It wasn't only for recompense, for compensation
22:53
Speaker 12: and dispossession. It was set up to give Aboridinal people
22:56
Speaker 12: a voice in the state of New South Wales. And
22:58
Speaker 12: she hasn't even listened to our volice.
23:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a big problem. Thanks for joining us again, Roy,
23:03
Speaker 2: I appreciate Roy. I see I see there it was
23:05
Speaker 2: the former chair of the New South Wales Aboriginal Land Council.
23:09
Speaker 2: What an absolute shambles. Clips needs to sort that out.
23:12
Speaker 2: If not, Albaneze needs to do it for her. We'll
23:15
Speaker 2: go to a break now. On the other side, we'll
23:16
Speaker 2: catch up with Tim Blair and Mark Nicholson. The love
23:19
Speaker 2: catching up with them. I want to get their take
23:20
Speaker 2: on the debate and the presidential race. Also talk about
23:24
Speaker 2: the landlord Albo. He's put his place on the market,
23:27
Speaker 2: has the Prime Minister the Land's catch up with Tim
23:34
Speaker 2: Blair from The Daily Telegrapher. Mark Nicholson from step Make Studios,
23:37
Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, gentlemen from the protest capital of
23:41
Speaker 2: the world. What did you make of it all in
23:43
Speaker 2: your hometown this week? Mark?
23:47
Speaker 13: It's disgusting increase, it really is. It's I must say,
23:50
Speaker 13: driving in here, the traffic was a little bit slow,
23:53
Speaker 13: but I just find it so deplorable and it's just
23:58
Speaker 13: it's so, so, so sad. And then you see them tackling,
24:01
Speaker 13: you know, and taking swipes at the ABC. You know
24:03
Speaker 13: went on immune from from taking swipes at the ABC
24:06
Speaker 13: as fellows, but you know, you see them tackling media
24:10
Speaker 13: as well. It just goes to show that they're not
24:12
Speaker 13: they're not intent on disseminating their their message. They're not
24:15
Speaker 13: they're not trying to do they're not trying to spread
24:17
Speaker 13: the right word. They're there for just violence. They think
24:20
Speaker 13: they're having fun. It's disgusting. They're throwing padlocks, They're throwing
24:24
Speaker 13: here about water balloons filled with vomit said, they're punching
24:29
Speaker 13: horses and they're taking taking on police. It's it's absolutely disgusting.
24:34
Speaker 13: Any moral high ground that these people thought that they
24:36
Speaker 13: had is completely gone.
24:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, Tim, it's so clear that they're into violence when
24:42
Speaker 2: they claim to be into peace. It's bizarre.
24:46
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And just to support what Mark says, as soon
24:49
Speaker 1: as a protester attacks a police FORRCE, it's came over.
24:53
Speaker 1: They've lost, as he points out, they've lost all moral
24:56
Speaker 1: high ground. They've lost all moral ground, full stop. I'd
24:59
Speaker 1: also urge at the to look into how we've got
25:03
Speaker 1: this new trend among protesters that they wear COVID masks
25:08
Speaker 1: and so on. They're not wearing them for any medical
25:12
Speaker 1: or protective reason. They're wearing them for concealment. And cops
25:15
Speaker 1: have got to get serious about this and deal with
25:17
Speaker 1: the people who are using that as a ruse to
25:20
Speaker 1: hide who they are.
25:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I agree heartily. They're in balaclava's, they're in
25:24
Speaker 2: COVID masks, and they're hiding their identity. And I don't
25:27
Speaker 2: know what the laws are in place now. I know
25:29
Speaker 2: some places have had laws against this, and they should
25:33
Speaker 2: do it. I mean, if you can't show your face
25:35
Speaker 2: at a protest, it shows you have the wrong intent,
25:38
Speaker 2: ill intent. Let's have a listen to a couple of
25:40
Speaker 2: these idiots to find out what they're on about. Is
25:42
Speaker 2: one and all.
25:45
Speaker 9: Are the war mangering and the corporations and greed, institutionalized
25:49
Speaker 9: hatred and ignorance. Get out of our city, weapons dealers,
25:55
Speaker 9: arms manufacturers, get out of here.
25:58
Speaker 2: Well, there's a classic case in point market hiding behind
26:01
Speaker 2: a mass supposedly wanting to get rid of hatred, yet
26:04
Speaker 2: spewing this sort of stuff for someone else, but a
26:07
Speaker 2: shame to show his face so that that doesn't add up.
26:11
Speaker 13: Yeah, I remember when I was at UNI, Chris, I
26:15
Speaker 13: was talking to a member of the Socialist Alternative and
26:18
Speaker 13: they were talking about how great protesting is and how
26:20
Speaker 13: much funnity is and all that sort of stuff, and
26:22
Speaker 13: they explained to me that their their their KPIs were
26:25
Speaker 13: essentially how much did you damage and did you get arrested?
26:29
Speaker 13: Were the two KPIs. That's that's what this is all about.
26:32
Speaker 13: And it's completely it's just it's it's ignorant, it's sad,
26:36
Speaker 13: it's and you know it comes from you know, civil disobedience.
26:39
Speaker 13: The civil is one of the key words there. And
26:42
Speaker 13: this isn't disobedience. This is this is beyond that. It's
26:45
Speaker 13: something that Mahat mcgarney would be rolling over in his
26:47
Speaker 13: grave for. This is not Sadie Graha. This is violence,
26:50
Speaker 13: this is discussing. This is chaos.
26:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not, it's not on. And here's here's another
26:56
Speaker 2: another clip that was was gotten in the field by
27:00
Speaker 2: our reporter Georgie Dickerson, and our hats off to her.
27:02
Speaker 2: What a tough job the last couple of days speaking
27:05
Speaker 2: to these people and being in this situation.
27:07
Speaker 14: Haven't look, I don't want to talk to you because
27:10
Speaker 14: you're the kind of people who misrepresent us saying, oh,
27:13
Speaker 14: they've got weapons, they've got weapons.
27:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, even in the quiet moments. The media are the
27:18
Speaker 2: problem here apparently. But you mentioned the ABC earlier, Mark,
27:21
Speaker 2: let's have a look at what happened live to where
27:23
Speaker 2: for an ABC reporter.
27:27
Speaker 15: Hold on, excuse.
27:28
Speaker 8: Means there, we're just obviously here right now at the
27:32
Speaker 8: moment were so we have obviously a bit of an
27:38
Speaker 8: issue at the moment, we have security here trying to
27:41
Speaker 8: stop would you please get out of their camera, get
27:43
Speaker 8: out of a camera at the moment we're obviously trying
27:47
Speaker 8: to report on this.
27:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, world done. Steph good reporting. I used to work
27:52
Speaker 2: with her back in Channel Channel ten Adelaide years ago.
27:55
Speaker 2: But these thugs are intimidating a woman going about her
27:58
Speaker 2: work in a public places. It's bullying, it's misogynist, it's intimidatory.
28:05
Speaker 1: Tim Absolutely, I love the first clip there with someone
28:09
Speaker 1: didn't want to be interviewed because they didn't want to
28:11
Speaker 1: be misrepresented. Well, there's a pretty good way to avoid
28:14
Speaker 1: being misrepresented. That's to be interviewed. Yees say you peace,
28:19
Speaker 1: don't wing about it. To that idiot's credit, at least
28:22
Speaker 1: he wasn't all masked up. We saw again, like another
28:25
Speaker 1: batch of them wearing the COVID mask. Seriously, that's a
28:27
Speaker 1: straight up a restable offense these days, in my view,
28:31
Speaker 1: just take them down and book them.
28:33
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, one thing, one little sidellite to that. I
28:35
Speaker 2: noticed the ABC had two security guards there looking after
28:40
Speaker 2: their team, and good on them. That's great, that's caring
28:43
Speaker 2: for you. But they have so much money, so much
28:46
Speaker 2: taxpayers money, they can afford to do that. The commercial
28:49
Speaker 2: media can't afford to get that sort of protection, and
28:51
Speaker 2: they're out there exposed to these thugs who are throwing
28:54
Speaker 2: stuff at them and intimidating them as shocking stuff. Let's
28:57
Speaker 2: go to the US, Let's elevate the debate, talk about
29:00
Speaker 2: US politics, and let's kick it off. Kick it off
29:05
Speaker 2: with the latest from Donald Trump. Because after the debate,
29:08
Speaker 2: of course, Taylor Swift came out and endorse Kamala Harris.
29:12
Speaker 2: Let's look at the Donald's response to that.
29:15
Speaker 7: I was not a Tailor Swift fan. It was just
29:17
Speaker 7: a question of time. She couldn't. You couldn't possibly enduse Biden.
29:22
Speaker 7: You look at Biden, you couldn't possibly endorse it. But
29:24
Speaker 7: she's a very liberal person. She seems to always endorse
29:28
Speaker 7: a Democrat, and she'll probably pay a price for it
29:31
Speaker 7: at the in the marketplace.
29:34
Speaker 2: I love that she's going to pay a price. All
29:37
Speaker 2: those people in the Midwest are going to stop buying
29:39
Speaker 2: her records apparently, Mark.
29:44
Speaker 13: I don't think so, Mate, I don't think so. I
29:46
Speaker 13: think there's a lot of copium being smoked amongst conservative commentators,
29:51
Speaker 13: and unfortunately that Donald is not immune to himself. He's
29:54
Speaker 13: bang on about that you couldn't endorse Biden, and she
29:57
Speaker 13: didn't do that.
29:58
Speaker 2: To her credit.
29:59
Speaker 13: But what's really scary is Kamala. Absolutely, I think she
30:04
Speaker 13: did so well at the debate, and he did extraordinary poorly,
30:09
Speaker 13: and now it's okay to support Kamala.
30:13
Speaker 2: I think that you are completely acceptable to do that.
30:15
Speaker 2: I think that's very telling. I think it's telling that
30:18
Speaker 2: Taylor Swift and whoever it was waited till after the
30:20
Speaker 2: debate because they were hoping she'd do it right, and
30:22
Speaker 2: she did exceed expectations. She did much better than I
30:25
Speaker 2: would thought, so it was enough. That was enough for
30:27
Speaker 2: a lot of people think, oh, yeah, she'll be all right,
30:30
Speaker 2: let's have a look at some of the debate. I
30:31
Speaker 2: thought one of her best bits he had certainly got
30:33
Speaker 2: under Donald Trump's skin is when she had to go
30:36
Speaker 2: at his rallies.
30:37
Speaker 16: He's going to talk about immigration a lot tonight, even
30:40
Speaker 16: when it's not the subject that is being readed. And
30:42
Speaker 16: I'm going to actually do something really unusual, and I'm
30:45
Speaker 16: going to invite you to attend one of Donald Trump's
30:47
Speaker 16: rallies because it's a really interesting thing to watch. You
30:51
Speaker 16: will see during the course of his rallies he talks
30:53
Speaker 16: about fictional characters like Hannibal Lecter, he will talk about
30:57
Speaker 16: Win Mills, clause cancer, and what she will also notice
31:01
Speaker 16: is that people start leaving his rallies early out of
31:04
Speaker 16: exhaustion and boredom.
31:06
Speaker 2: Now I think it's probably crapped him, but it took
31:10
Speaker 2: some shots bar just a bit. I mean.
31:14
Speaker 1: Also, is Kamala Harris telling us there that she's been attending. Yeah,
31:22
Speaker 1: she seemed to be very familiar with them becomings in
31:24
Speaker 1: going to rallies and es. I think the ter thing
31:26
Speaker 1: for me was that Harris, and I guess the media
31:31
Speaker 1: and political and social elites never just want to beat Trump.
31:35
Speaker 1: They just they don't want to take on his arguments
31:37
Speaker 1: because to take on these arguments is to give them,
31:38
Speaker 1: by guess, legitimacy, and they are legitimate arguments. There is unemployment,
31:42
Speaker 1: there's inflations on instead, they've always aimed since the nineteen
31:46
Speaker 1: nineties when or the eighties when when Trump became a
31:49
Speaker 1: public figure, they've aimed to humiliate him. Yeah, and has
31:54
Speaker 1: this ever worked? They humilitated, humiliated him all the way
31:57
Speaker 1: to the White House, and they may be doing it again.
31:59
Speaker 1: They don't just take him on. I mean half half
32:01
Speaker 1: of the show, half of the debate last night or
32:03
Speaker 1: yesterday our time was was Harris looking sneeringly at him
32:08
Speaker 1: or laughing or doing the sort of thing. Oh yeah,
32:11
Speaker 1: trying to humiliates the voters. It also humani ates Trump's voters.
32:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, it does. Yeah, although I thought I thought that's
32:18
Speaker 2: what threw Trump off a bit, because I think he's
32:20
Speaker 2: gone into it March. He's gone into it thinking I
32:22
Speaker 2: don't want to be a bully. I don't want to
32:24
Speaker 2: be attacking her too much. I just want to expose
32:26
Speaker 2: her a bit. And yet she attacked him. He probably
32:29
Speaker 2: needed to get back a bit more.
32:31
Speaker 9: Yeah.
32:33
Speaker 13: Well, he took the bait on every single thing that
32:36
Speaker 13: she threw out, any time it got close to an
32:39
Speaker 13: argument against her, a criticism of her.
32:41
Speaker 2: She did it very cleverly.
32:43
Speaker 13: She just threw out a little bit of bait, and
32:45
Speaker 13: he bit every time he underestimated her, as I would
32:48
Speaker 13: have as well. I'm not I'm not better than him.
32:50
Speaker 13: I would have underestimated her as well. She obviously didn't
32:53
Speaker 13: drink a.
32:53
Speaker 2: Drop before this debate.
32:55
Speaker 13: She got in there and she was on the script,
32:58
Speaker 13: and she was she was she was a little bit
33:00
Speaker 13: of baits.
33:01
Speaker 2: She took it. She was unburdened by what had been
33:04
Speaker 2: before and what I didn't have on my my bingo
33:11
Speaker 2: card for this though, after for spending three years telling
33:14
Speaker 2: people there's no way known that Biden would run again,
33:17
Speaker 2: even when people only two months ago were saying he's
33:20
Speaker 2: definitely running in I said no, he won't run again,
33:23
Speaker 2: and barracking for him to go. I now want him
33:26
Speaker 2: back because this performance of his and today is the smartest, sharpest,
33:31
Speaker 2: funniest thing we've seen from Joe Biden in four years.
33:33
Speaker 2: Have a look there you go, man.
33:36
Speaker 11: I forgot I need that hat. Hell lord, come on,
33:47
Speaker 11: I ain't going out for.
34:00
Speaker 13: Prow Are you down.
34:06
Speaker 2: Going?
34:06
Speaker 1: Doran?
34:07
Speaker 2: Cats don't eat your dogs and cats. So he must
34:12
Speaker 2: have stayed up at least halfway through the debate.
34:17
Speaker 1: Running is he now? Running for Trump? Is actually like
34:20
Speaker 1: that was incredibly affectionate and promotional and seems to be
34:24
Speaker 1: all the way with the Donald as opposed to as
34:26
Speaker 1: opposed to Kamala who, as Mark points out, was last night.
34:30
Speaker 1: Let's say she was unbourboned.
34:31
Speaker 2: She was unbourboned. Yeah, split, there's a split in the
34:35
Speaker 2: White House. You've picked up Biden's now for Trump. Thanks
34:38
Speaker 2: for joining us, guys, We'll catch you next week. Tim
34:40
Speaker 2: Blair and Martin Nicholson. There we've got to get to
34:43
Speaker 2: a break on the other side, we're going to talk
34:44
Speaker 2: more about the anarchy lurking again in Melbourne. Protest is
34:47
Speaker 2: rarely there again today, fewer of them, but what's going
34:50
Speaker 2: to happen on the weekend. Also, the electricity market Operator
34:53
Speaker 2: won't reveal the true cost of our emissions reductions targets.
35:01
Speaker 2: I want to talk more about the reprehensible behavior we've
35:04
Speaker 2: seen in Melbourne over the past couple of days. And
35:06
Speaker 2: I'm joined now by the Executive Council of Australian Jury,
35:10
Speaker 2: Alex Rifchen joining me from Sydney. Thanks for joining us again, Alex,
35:14
Speaker 2: you must have been really perturbed by what you saw
35:17
Speaker 2: in Melbourne, the violence, the hatred and supposedly a broad
35:20
Speaker 2: demonstration against the defense industry and war, but so heavily
35:25
Speaker 2: targeted against Israel.
35:28
Speaker 14: Well, these scenes were just so shocking, so deplorable, and
35:31
Speaker 14: so frankly, I'm Australian and you know the hypocrisy that
35:35
Speaker 14: runs through it all. I mean, these are people who
35:36
Speaker 14: claim to be pacifist, anti war, anti violence, but how
35:40
Speaker 14: quickly they turned to violence against journalists, against the police.
35:45
Speaker 14: These are the same people that cheer when the hoodies
35:48
Speaker 14: by drones and Department buildings in Tel Aviv, who yearned
35:51
Speaker 14: for Ruan to invade Israel. I mean, these people are
35:55
Speaker 14: a sham. And what began with the Jews eleven months ago,
35:58
Speaker 14: these sorts of deplorable, degenerate scenes have spread to wider society,
36:03
Speaker 14: which was inevitable. And looking at those scenes again, my
36:05
Speaker 14: sympathies are primarily with the police. I mean, one thing
36:09
Speaker 14: that the organizer of these protests have been doing for
36:11
Speaker 14: months and months and months, and the Greens have been
36:14
Speaker 14: aiding them in this regard is vilifying the police as
36:16
Speaker 14: some sort of agents of state power and legitimate targets
36:20
Speaker 14: for violence. And these are just ordinary Australians who want
36:24
Speaker 14: to do their job and get home, and seeing the
36:25
Speaker 14: terror etched on their faces in those scenes, it's pretty heartbreaking.
36:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just terrible. I showed earlier how one of
36:32
Speaker 2: the protesters was changing the names of Hamas and Hezbollara
36:36
Speaker 2: and other terrorist groups. We saw countless Palestinian flags there.
36:41
Speaker 2: So the pro Palestinian protesters use this. They are out
36:44
Speaker 2: there in force. Scott, you spoke to one of them.
36:48
Speaker 17: The reason there's a big connection is, you know what's
36:51
Speaker 17: happened in Palistine happens our first ancient people in this country.
36:55
Speaker 17: So look, we and myself were anti war everywhere is
37:00
Speaker 17: connected with Betters say, but that doesn't mean I'm okay
37:03
Speaker 17: with war in other places.
37:06
Speaker 2: Now, again, this pacifist notion in such a violent protest,
37:10
Speaker 2: and this absurd link between Palestinians and indigenous people, let's
37:14
Speaker 2: put that all that to one side. We're used to that.
37:16
Speaker 2: But Alex, you must be concerned that what we saw
37:19
Speaker 2: in Melbourne is the culmination. And I agree the police
37:23
Speaker 2: have been really strong over the past couple of days
37:26
Speaker 2: and they essentially scared off the protesters today with their force.
37:30
Speaker 2: But is that the culmination of the weakness we've seen
37:33
Speaker 2: against these repeated protests since October the eighth in Australia
37:37
Speaker 2: last year.
37:39
Speaker 14: Well, look, you can trace it all the way back
37:41
Speaker 14: to the Opera House steps and the lack of consequences then.
37:45
Speaker 14: And you've seen this trajectory in the months that have ensued,
37:48
Speaker 14: where you've had encampments on university grounds which should never
37:52
Speaker 14: have been there and were permitted and in many regards
37:54
Speaker 14: that were appeased by the university administrations. You've seen this
37:58
Speaker 14: progression in the speech of these activists from calling for
38:02
Speaker 14: a ceasefire to then calling for greater violence, calling for
38:06
Speaker 14: interfarts to be globalized, more attached on Israelis. You're seeing
38:10
Speaker 14: brazen support for terrorist organizations. The Hummas red triangle is
38:14
Speaker 14: now almost ubiquitous in these gatherings. And again there are
38:17
Speaker 14: no consequences, and as long as these people allowed to
38:20
Speaker 14: get away with it, they're going to continue. We've seen
38:22
Speaker 14: that time and time again.
38:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, I fear you're right, and this is where we
38:26
Speaker 2: need stronger political leadership. Just briefly, I noticed that the
38:29
Speaker 2: new South Wales school's curriculum is going to start to
38:32
Speaker 2: introduce Holocaust education for everyone. Now, better late than never,
38:39
Speaker 2: but getting rid of some of that ignorance is underlying
38:42
Speaker 2: these debates and protests will be a welcome step forward. Well.
38:47
Speaker 14: Look, the way that antisemitism has thrived through the ages
38:50
Speaker 14: is you've had malicious people, sinister people exploiting the ignorance
38:55
Speaker 14: of the masses and doing diabolical things. And education is
38:58
Speaker 14: the best way to drive out that ignorance. And this
39:01
Speaker 14: is something that's badly needed. But it can't merely be
39:03
Speaker 14: whole colost education. You can't position antisemitism is something that
39:07
Speaker 14: occurred in Europe in the mid twentieth century. We need
39:09
Speaker 14: to also understand antisemitism in the here and now as
39:12
Speaker 14: it occurs in our streets.
39:14
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, well, so thanks for joining us again, Alex,
39:16
Speaker 2: I appreciate it. Alix Richard there for who's with the
39:19
Speaker 2: Executive Council of Australian Jury. I want to get back
39:22
Speaker 2: to our energy debate in this country, in the mess
39:24
Speaker 2: we're in. I want to catch up again with Aiden Morrison.
39:27
Speaker 2: He heads up the energy program at the Center for
39:30
Speaker 2: Independent Studies. Thanks for joining us again, Aiden. First up,
39:34
Speaker 2: I've got to get your thoughts on gas in Victoria
39:36
Speaker 2: because the Victorian government there has flipped over to a degree.
39:40
Speaker 2: He's saying they'll allow gas stoves to go ahead, but
39:45
Speaker 2: meantime they're not allowing gas exploration and exploitation. Most of
39:51
Speaker 2: the gas in Victoria is used for other means, isn't
39:54
Speaker 2: it for industrial uses and for home heating.
40:00
Speaker 18: Yeah, that's right. Victoria's found itself in a very tricky
40:03
Speaker 18: situation because they're running into potential gas shortages.
40:06
Speaker 2: They still rely.
40:07
Speaker 18: On gas very heavily for peaking power, and they will
40:10
Speaker 18: do very much more if they try to retire brown
40:12
Speaker 18: coal in a couple of years. And also Victoria is
40:15
Speaker 18: a relatively cool climate, and a lot of people use
40:17
Speaker 18: gas for their home heating, which is a much much
40:19
Speaker 18: larger use than the cook tops, actually more than twenty
40:23
Speaker 18: times larger actually, so that's a much more substantial thing.
40:26
Speaker 18: But in order to not have a shortage, they need
40:28
Speaker 18: some new investment to come through, and every sign they've
40:30
Speaker 18: given for a long time has been extremely discouraging to
40:33
Speaker 18: new investors, including flagging out the phasing out of all
40:36
Speaker 18: housetop use of gas. So they've basically in a pickle
40:40
Speaker 18: now because they need to attract the investors back to
40:42
Speaker 18: urgently build new storage, new pipelines, and explore for new gas.
40:46
Speaker 18: But every indication they've given till recently has been that
40:49
Speaker 18: they're firmly opposed to any gas use.
40:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the idea of allowing gas stoves is just
40:55
Speaker 2: a political soop because there's not a huge amount of
40:58
Speaker 2: gas is going to prevent the pain. But people hate
41:02
Speaker 2: losing these or not being able to install them. But
41:05
Speaker 2: their real problem is not addressed, and that is that
41:08
Speaker 2: they need more gas no matter what they do, as
41:10
Speaker 2: you say, especially if they go to a more renewable
41:14
Speaker 2: spased electricity model, they're going to have to have a
41:17
Speaker 2: lot of gas generation.
41:21
Speaker 18: That's exactly right. So they've painted themselves into something of
41:24
Speaker 18: a corner. And you're right, the cook tops there are
41:26
Speaker 18: popular appliance. It seems like a political appeasement if you
41:30
Speaker 18: like to say the popular appliants can stay. We're not
41:32
Speaker 18: sure about the rest. That won't satisfy investors. And frankly,
41:36
Speaker 18: gas in significant quantities for that heating load actually makes
41:40
Speaker 18: the renewable energy transition quite a bit easier because in winter,
41:43
Speaker 18: in particular in southern states like Victoria, like Melbourne, in winter,
41:48
Speaker 18: when you turn your heaters on in the evening when
41:50
Speaker 18: there's no sun around, you need some power that actually
41:53
Speaker 18: can be turned on for a long time. Still that
41:55
Speaker 18: is going to be coal and gas.
41:57
Speaker 2: And so that's why.
41:57
Speaker 18: Trying to get all the households off gas the same
42:00
Speaker 18: time massively complicates the renewable energy transition. Actually, it seems
42:04
Speaker 18: like a bit of an own goal in Victoria's case.
42:07
Speaker 2: Now I see that you have tried to get some
42:09
Speaker 2: information out of the Australian Energy Market Operator to try
42:13
Speaker 2: and get the true cost of the emissions reductions targets
42:17
Speaker 2: that are being set. I think you call this the
42:19
Speaker 2: shadow carbon price. Tell us so what that is. And
42:23
Speaker 2: I understand that you've actually found out they have done
42:26
Speaker 2: these calculations. They won't make them public though, that's right.
42:32
Speaker 18: In calculating the Integrated System Plan, which is the Grand
42:35
Speaker 18: Plan that sort of outlies more or less what's become
42:38
Speaker 18: Labor Party policy for how we do this energy transition,
42:41
Speaker 18: they have to basically constrain the system to force it
42:43
Speaker 18: to amit less carbon. And when you constrain the system,
42:46
Speaker 18: it increases the total costs. And when you calculate how
42:49
Speaker 18: much more expensive that new system is that's been forced
42:52
Speaker 18: into building renewables and forced into reducing carbon outputs and
42:55
Speaker 18: divide it by the carbon you get a carbon price,
42:58
Speaker 18: so it indicates how much more expensive system will be.
43:01
Speaker 18: What's really surprising, though, is that AEMO have admitted that
43:04
Speaker 18: they've calculated this, and they've told the Department they've calculated.
43:07
Speaker 2: This, but said they're not at liberty.
43:09
Speaker 18: To disclose that information to the Department of Climate Change,
43:13
Speaker 18: Energy and Water, which is extremely strange. You'd think that
43:15
Speaker 18: the department of the government that is actually responsible for
43:18
Speaker 18: building out all this infrastructure and subsidizing all the renewable
43:22
Speaker 18: energy would be first people to get an insight into
43:24
Speaker 18: what the true cost will be. But actually AEMO has
43:27
Speaker 18: decided not to tell them that. And this is information
43:30
Speaker 18: that we've already tried to seek under freedom information requests.
43:33
Speaker 18: They've initially refused to provide it. We've had to appeal that,
43:36
Speaker 18: and then the Department actually has reluctantly agreed to reveal
43:41
Speaker 18: this information. Now we can see that they have been
43:43
Speaker 18: turned down by AEMO. That's extraordinary about the true cost
43:48
Speaker 18: of the energy transition.
43:49
Speaker 2: Australian taxpayers and consumers deserve to see that information. Full
43:53
Speaker 2: credit to you for trying to get hold of it.
43:55
Speaker 2: Maybe our politicians can weed it out through centered estimates
43:58
Speaker 2: or they're like keep on that one. Thanks for joining
44:01
Speaker 2: us AID and I appreciate it. Aiden Morrison. There there
44:04
Speaker 2: you go. The government or the market operator, they know
44:07
Speaker 2: how much extra all this is costing us, they just
44:10
Speaker 2: won't tell us. Not good enough. Now, on the other
44:13
Speaker 2: side of the break, we're going to continue with some
44:15
Speaker 2: of the energy debate because Labor's talking up green energy,
44:18
Speaker 2: but their reliance on coal is continuing. I'll also let's
44:26
Speaker 2: go back down to Canberra and catch up with Shadow
44:28
Speaker 2: Resources Minister Susan McDonald. Thanks for joining us, Susan. Just
44:34
Speaker 2: first up, I want to get your thoughts on this
44:36
Speaker 2: controversy over Indigenous cultural heritage claims the Minister Tanya Plivsek
44:42
Speaker 2: with a small group overruling the approval essentially or the
44:47
Speaker 2: lack of opposition from the Orange, the Local Aboriginal Land
44:51
Speaker 2: Council and Orange, how are you going to pursue this?
44:54
Speaker 2: Surely this can't stand, oh.
44:57
Speaker 15: Chris, it absolutely can't stand, because we're now waded into
45:01
Speaker 15: the deep water of sovereign risk for investment in Australia.
45:05
Speaker 15: What we've seen is companies that would like to have
45:08
Speaker 15: certainty of outcome, but what they really need is certainty
45:12
Speaker 15: of process. And what Tanny Plibasek has done with this
45:16
Speaker 15: Section ten decision to overlook the views of the legislated
45:22
Speaker 15: recognized Native titleholders, the legislated local Land Council and to
45:27
Speaker 15: prefer the views of another group has undermined the entire
45:32
Speaker 15: consultation process right across Australia. It's outrageous and now one
45:38
Speaker 15: hundred and twenty one land councils are all going to
45:41
Speaker 15: gather to meet together in Orange because they too want
45:45
Speaker 15: this certainty of authority. You know, it's good for the investors,
45:51
Speaker 15: it's good for the traditional owners, but labor. This is
45:55
Speaker 15: a government that was prepared to spend hundreds of millions
45:58
Speaker 15: of dollars of taxpayers on legislating to force a voice
46:02
Speaker 15: to be heard, and yet they're not prepared to listen
46:06
Speaker 15: to an authorized voice for free.
46:09
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, the land councils are the authorized voices. Now
46:12
Speaker 2: they're not being listened to. I spoke to Roy RC
46:15
Speaker 2: who's helping to organize that meeting in Orange, earlier in
46:18
Speaker 2: the program. Listen to what he says about these claims
46:22
Speaker 2: that are the basis of the Section ten ban.
46:26
Speaker 12: Some of the stuff they were putting out was fabrication,
46:28
Speaker 12: you know, it was fabricated information. And therefore the Land
46:31
Speaker 12: Council couldn't you know, they had to change their position
46:38
Speaker 12: to be neutral, to.
46:41
Speaker 2: Not oppose the mind Susan. This is Warrajeri people there
46:45
Speaker 2: informed by Warajerie elders saying that the claims were fabricated.
46:50
Speaker 2: Yet the minister has banned the tailings down on basis
46:53
Speaker 2: of them.
46:55
Speaker 15: Well, it's shocking, isn't it. And I asked Senator Wong
46:58
Speaker 15: as the representative Minister and the Senate today exactly this question.
47:02
Speaker 15: Would they re examine the decision now that they've been
47:06
Speaker 15: told that the basis of the Section ten claim was
47:10
Speaker 15: fabricated And Minister one wouldn't answer that question. She talked
47:14
Speaker 15: about due process and the Minister plebsc's decision making authority.
47:19
Speaker 15: But I think it absolutely has to be re examined
47:22
Speaker 15: and the whole process needs to be much more certain,
47:27
Speaker 15: provide clarity both to traditional owners as well as as
47:31
Speaker 15: I say, investors who are now looking at billions of dollars,
47:35
Speaker 15: do they spend the min Australia or do they go
47:38
Speaker 15: to jurisdictions that are more certain, more clear about the
47:43
Speaker 15: process of risking that kind of money.
47:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an absolute shambles. Hundreds of jobs, billions of dollars,
47:50
Speaker 2: the future of the sector at stake here in Australia,
47:53
Speaker 2: claims of fabrication from Indigenous people and the Minister's just
47:58
Speaker 2: ignoring it. The Prime Minister's ignoring it. That they've got
48:00
Speaker 2: to investigator. Thanks for joining us, Susan, I think the
48:04
Speaker 2: import Sorry, we're just out of time. I'm sorry, Susan
48:07
Speaker 2: McDonald there and our resources Minister in Camber will catch
48:10
Speaker 2: up with the next time. We do. Just have some
48:12
Speaker 2: time to include some of your feedback from what we
48:14
Speaker 2: were saying last night about those shameful scenes in Melbourne yesterday,
48:18
Speaker 2: those violent, ugly protests. John says, these muppets are taking
48:22
Speaker 2: police away from their general duties. It's disgraceful. Matthew says,
48:26
Speaker 2: so on Australia, this behavior has to stop. Robert says,
48:30
Speaker 2: this is what happens when you tolerate lunacy, and Lewis says,
48:34
Speaker 2: what do these protests achieve anyway? Precisely, they achieved a
48:38
Speaker 2: lot of ugliness, a lot of violence and a lot
48:41
Speaker 2: of inconvenience for people. Let's hope there's no more of
48:44
Speaker 2: them on the weekend. Will be all over it here
48:46
Speaker 2: on Sky News. If there are thanks for joining me.
48:49
Speaker 2: I'll see you next week. Here's Peter