Latest / Aggressively Human: For experts choosing expansion over extraction. / Our fall launches: What worked, what didn't, and what changed mid-launch

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Our fall launches: What worked, what didn't, and what changed mid-launch · Aggressively Human: For experts choosing expansion over extraction.

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Aggressively Human podcast,
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: where we do not give you a universal playbook for how you should run your business,
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: but we will pull back the curtain on our own businesses and what's happening
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: in real time.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm your co-host, Meg Casebolt.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Jessica Lackey.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: And this week, we're going to recap our fall launches.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: So last month,
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: we had an episode where we walked through exactly what we're launching
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: and what our plans were.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: And both of us sort of had moments of pivoting mid-launch.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so this felt like a good time to recap it and say,
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: here's what worked, here's what didn't work, and here's what we're seeing sort
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Both anecdotally and trend wise in Q4 of 2026.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: So Jessica, how was your launch?
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, interestingly, the question is which launch?
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's true.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: So long time listeners will know I essentially had a membership price raise from $30
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: a month to $50 a month.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: In the end of July, which no one sells things during the summer.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: I had about 80 people join the membership in that time period.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: So during July and or the August and September,
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: when I would have normally been like launching my cohort,
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I did launch my cohort.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: I was also doing welcome calls with every single person that joined, right?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: Not true.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because I joined,
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: and I did not take my complimentary 30-minute welcome call because
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: I talk
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: to you every week.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Fine.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: But most people, to be fair, there's actually some people in the membership who haven't.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: But generally speaking,
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: you get a series of welcome emails that tell you exactly what you have
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: and haven't done for your first month as you onboard in the membership.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I've had 30
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome calls a month in August, in September.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then people like got in and then told their friends and things like that.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I did a July push on the membership.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then we hit almost our member cap between that and other enrollments.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so I did like a final push to get to 250 members.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I've been I had like Mega launch on the membership and a mega minor launch on
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: the membership cap.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: And in the middle there, threading that needle was my fall program.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: But there was the public fall cohort.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then there was the private fall cohort.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: So previously, all of Define Your Foundations was a six month program.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: Alumni were in that group.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: But now I've had like people go through that Two times or once or twice.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so some people are like, yeah, I don't need the curriculum.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: I just want more Jessica.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I created a secret graduate alumni cohort.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: You do realize
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: that if you say it,
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: you created something secret and then you broadcast it out on a podcast,
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: it becomes less secret.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm OK with that.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: We'll say invite only.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: We'll say, you know, it's exclusive.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's not even, it's that.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's like,
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: I have to know your business and that you have to have put in the foundations
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: to make this work because otherwise there's no curriculum.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: We're just building stuff.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: We're building and I have to know your business well enough.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: You have to know the foundations.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: So between launching the membership, big,
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: moving some people to a higher tier,
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: different tier, it's not even really a big price jump, different tier program.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: I only filled 15 out of my 20 seats, which feels like a failure.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I cannot be more pleased with the people that are in.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: And fun fact,
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: this time everyone except for two people has bought my book,
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: was in the membership, had done at least one of my courses before and
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, everybody but one.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: No, two.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: And the two that came in were both referrals.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like talk about an escalation ladder that doesn't feel forced.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: like because so often you hear these,
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: and I know you hate the word funnels, but I'm going to go there.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like you hear these sales funnels where it's like,
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: give them the low cost thing,
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: which in your case is probably a $20 book that they can buy and consume,
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: the physical copy or the digital copy,
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: but it's a low cost way to get to know your belief system.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: And in that case,
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: there's not like an easy, like, Oh,
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: we gathered your email address and therefore we can hit you
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: with emails every single day for the rest of your life.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like they buy it on a third party site.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: You don't necessarily even know who those people are, but they've bought it.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: They've read it.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they bought it directly from you.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they didn't.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then they join either the membership or some sort of course that's a lower commitment.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: And you as a marketer.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: Never come out and say,
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: okay, you have 30 days and then you have to decide if you're in or you're out.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: You allow people to self-select into whatever level they want.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like right now I'm talking Fight Club and it's like,
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: this is Project Mayhem and you decide your own level of involvement.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: But that's what it is, right?
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: There's no pressure.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: There are deadlines.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: There is urgency of this six-month program begins on September 15th and you have
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: to choose whether or not to join this particular thing.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: But there's no pressure,
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: which is so different from what we hear in the ways that people tell you to do
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: a offer escalation.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: This, I didn't design, like, I fell into my business backwards, Meg.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: The business I have now is not,
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: it sort of evolved to meet the needs of who was in my audience at the time.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so the membership or I started when I was like,
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: we'll go on a tangent and then we'll come back, I promise.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: So it was it was high touch fractional COO work and high touch advisory.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then so the group was started.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: The six month cohort was started as the entry offer.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: It was started as a six month business building boot camp.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: That was the place that was the best low cost place to lowish cost place
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: to enter my work because that was it was the curriculum that was there.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that was what was that was the best way to be accessible at that point in time.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: But like the six months was both like too short to actually metabolize everything.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: But if I made it a year program They're like,
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm marketing is like broadcast marketing and sales is like in month four.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: And if I had made it a year long program,
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: we wouldn't hit that quarter until like,
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: you know, people need, I'm like, people want to move faster than that.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I always had this weird tension with the program where it moved too fast.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: It was, you know, you met me, I am not nothing short of like intense, right?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: It takes time.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: And like, there's a lot you have to like, Metabolized during that six month period.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so there were people who loved the pace and people who were like,
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: they tap out partway through the program.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: The membership,
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: because of how I re-architected and redid the orientation materials and reset up
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: the roadmap,
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: turned out to be the best place for people to be like, here's what you need to know.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Here's the basic rhythms.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Get the posture and practice of business ownership.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Under your belt.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: Learn my lingo.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: Learn the frameworks.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Get the practices.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: Get the skills.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then this acceleration means that we are ready because I know your business.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know my frameworks.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Now we're like putting a finer point on it.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, you know, I actually talked a couple people out.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Someone's like, I'm looking at the cohort.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: I talked to her and I'm like, you don't need the cohort.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: You just need relationship rhythms.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: You need the system.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: Go buy that.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: Join the membership.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Most people would sell the thing, the higher price thing.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like,
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: How can I sell you the minimum you need to pay to get the results you're looking
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: for?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes that minimum is the cohort.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes that minimum is one on one.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes the membership is go do the thing in the $30 for $50 a month membership now.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then when you need when you're interested in like, you know, doing more, jump into the more.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: But like.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: That means I have to change the positioning because
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: the program is called Define Your Foundations.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, actually, that's not the promise anymore.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't figure that out until I was in the cohort launch.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, actually, the place to define your foundations is the membership.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like get master these principles and habits,
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: like practices, like, you know, buy into the belief system.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then Accelerate what you've got.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: I did not realize that until I was like halfway through and people are like,
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: oh, I'm still observing the membership.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, cool.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: My product suite changed on me while I was in the process of launching it, which is super fun.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: My product suite changed on me while I was launching it this time, too.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's really funny.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, um,
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: and there are people who like,
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: so most people or people who joined the cohort this time were people who had been in
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: the membership for a while, but something was like not clicking.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: They wanted to accelerate faster.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: They wanted more personalized support.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they wanted access to like,
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: all right,
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: we're gonna,
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: we're gonna turn up maybe not the heat,
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: but turn up Jessica's access to your business.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: But they'd already mastered a lot of the frameworks and they'd already gotten
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: the lingo down,
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: gotten the habits and were like,
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: all right, like, like, like, let's turn this up a notch.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: What is this final tab?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like turn it to 11.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Or people who had like been in a membership and are like,
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not, I need the accountability to look more deeply at this.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: I want Jessica's feedback on this stuff.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like I need the accountability to either kind of turn it up or I need
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: the accountability to like make the progress I need to make because I'm tired,
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: you know, I'm tired of kind of not going as quickly as I want.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah,
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: so I now need to go rewrite and re-architect the entire Backup,
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: like my website has to be re-updated.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: All my welcome sequences have to be updated.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: The program name has to change.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's not going to launch every six months.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: There are additional other things that are on the client journey before they get to the cohort.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Meg, it's exhausting.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm laughing because I feel like every business owner is in this constant state
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: of test, pivot, test, pivot, evolve.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: Not even pivot, but if you're listening to...
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: What people are saying to you, what your audience is saying to you.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know,
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: we talked about this a little bit in the like,
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: how do you know your perspective well enough to be able to pitch yourself so
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: that way you can point out your expertise and you have to have conversations
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: with people.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the same is true when you're doing program design.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: You can't design a program in a vacuum.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: You can't just say like, well, this is what works for me.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: So everyone's going to have to shove into it.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you you can.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: You can do that, but what's the client experience?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: Our clients really appreciate when we adapt and say, here's what I learned from you.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: You're learning from me, but I'm learning from you at the same time.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm going to adapt the way that I adapt.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm delivering this.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to reinterpret what you need from me based on your feedback.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm sure that between the sales conversations for the cohort and all
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: of these new member onboarding calls, they're not even interviews.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: They're just getting to know you kind of calls.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, here's how I can help you try this.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: Here's some of the resources that are already available to you that might be
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: the right place to start.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: You're sort of like doing...
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Individualized onboarding in that way.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: That is giving you so much data that you can then use to say,
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: oh, I thought it was going to work this way.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: Here was what my hypothesis was.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: But what I'm learning is in Q3 of 2026, here's what my finger on the pulse of my people said.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not necessarily something that we can extrapolate out to.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Here's what's happening in the entire industry.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: But there are trends that are happening, which is, you know, people need different things.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: They want to engage with leaders and thought leaders and experts in different ways.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: And if we don't adapt, we can still sell things.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: But it may not be the best delivery method that is possible for this particular audience.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll continue going into what I have learned,
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: especially what I have learned from like 60 welcome calls.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: And these are not like, hello, let me know your business.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: These are like hardcore strategy diagnoses in roughly a 30 minute period.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: My brain hurts, but I love you all.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm super excited.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: Having a wide ranging,
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: well read And ability of recall ability is pretty remarkable on these calls.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: But Meg,
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: tell us before we go into like how my business is totally changing on me in
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: a way I didn't expect.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me about your launch.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I do want to say I'm glad that you put a pin in the what I learned
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: from welcome calls because I have a very similar thing going on right now with some
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: of the welcome videos that I'm recording.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm glad that we'll sort of we're aligned in this way, which I love.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so my September launch was not, it did not go as well as I hoped.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll just come out and say that.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like I had, I was hoping for between 15 and 20 people to join my signal program.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: I had 11.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: They are some of the best fit, loveliest humans I could have picked.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: If I could have handpicked people, it would have been these people.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I just wish that I had more of them.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: But I also know that I can support and deliver in a different way with this audience.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I kind of shot myself in the foot,
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: which happens when you're testing out new delivery methods.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: So let's, let's like rewind a year.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Last year,
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: when I was making this very public pivot from kind of that keyword first SEO space,
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'd moved out of it privately,
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: but I hadn't moved out of it publicly by the summer of 2025.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so in the fall of 2025,
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: I ran a month-long challenge, $97,
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: called Findable Everywhere,
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: where I went through the basics of basically entity optimization and consolidation.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't everything,
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: but it was the introduction to,
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: here's how you need to change the way that you think in
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: an AI-mediated search environment.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, now I'm talking like myself and not how I talk in marketing copy.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's not how I explained it publicly.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: But that's what it was, is it was introduction to entities, basically.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it was $97.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I had maybe 30 or 40 people in there.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have the numbers off the top of my head.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a month-long program.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: And people had really incredible results.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: And about 30% of them continued into Signal.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: But the ones that didn't...
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, some of them were not the best fit in terms of their attitudes,
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: especially towards my support team.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that, honestly, I get really protective of Sheena's, Sheena's my assistant.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: She runs everything.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: She makes sure that the trains keep running on time.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: And when people were sending her nasty emails about decisions
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: that were very clearly marked on a sales page,
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I don't want to do this anymore.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like the low cost, high volume public challenges didn't feel good to me.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: And people,
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: demanding replays of things that were meant to be a short term offer
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: and threatening nasty reviews.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: And like, dude, it was $100.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Chill the fuck out.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like I just kind of I didn't feel good about the challenge.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: And the people who showed up, I think that they had great results.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: And the people who enrolled in Signal, yeah.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: No, it wasn't Signal at that point.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: It was still Content Love Lab, right?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: It was still the old branding.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: But the people who enrolled were fantastic.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so it left me with a little bit of like a bad taste in my mouth about that launch model.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Which again, you know, bad apples.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: Everything, there's never going to be a perfect group of people.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's fine.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's part of running a business.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's part of growing your audience is figuring out how you have to deal with that.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: So then in the spring of this year, I rebranded.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: I started calling it Signal.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of saying it's a quarterly payment, I said, this has got to take a year.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's got to take a year because everything is changing so quickly and I want
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: to support you through the change and I want to make sure that I'm explaining things
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: in a way that makes sense to you and I want you to go through this twice
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: because I think between the first time and the second time I'm going to learn a lot
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: and I'm going to change the way that I talk about things and it might become clearer
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: the second time around and so I wanted to give people that chance.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so between the existing clients that I had from 2025 rolling over in
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: that group coaching program and the new ones,
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: I have about 35 people going into this launch.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: And they're spectacular.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: They're working so hard.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: They're getting great results.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: They're great.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things that I did last spring was I decided to test out small group workshops.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: Maximum five people.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Come hang out with me for two hours.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to take a look at what's really happening in like what AI knows about you.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then you can, it was like 150 bucks.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: And if you liked that workshop, then you can apply half of that to Signal.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: So like $75 off $1,000 a year.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's not chump change.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's a significant investment, but it's, you know, it's a year, right?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: And people converted really well from the workshop in the spring.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was like, okay, I'll try that again this year.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'll try again,
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: do the small group workshops,
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: because those people who are going to pay for
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: a small group workshop are most likely going to be the ones who are most committed
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: to the process,
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: who want that time with me,
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: who want to test out what I teach like, what that feels like to work with me.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then very few people converted from the workshop this time.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I spent a lot of time,
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: you know, driving people to the workshop and growing the list for that.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was a nice little cash flow bump for me.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I had about 20 people go through the workshop with me over five different sessions.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: They had great feedback to share.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: People even said, like, I can't make any of these times.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: Can we do a different time?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I opened a different session that worked for a small group.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that was really insightful.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I gave too much away during the small group workshops.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then part of it was,
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: we were working with Specific AI prompts to help people benchmark where they were.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think they took the benchmarking for, okay, now I know the strategy.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: And now I know what to do.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't need to join Meg in any program for anything.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because now I know.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Which maybe I didn't set expectations clearly enough.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Or maybe I gave, I mean, you and I both are fire hoses of information.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: We both know that we come off very intense information.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: We overwhelm people with, I'd rather give people more that they have time to sift through.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I have a feeling that some of the people who came
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: to my workshops this fall will be back next spring because they got some of
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: that information and went, okay, I'm going to try this on my own.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then The next time that I open the doors to something, I'll be like, okay, now I'm ready.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: I've had that time.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: You said the word metabolize.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: I've had time to metabolize what I learned in that two hours because it is
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: a very intense thing to look at all this data in one kind of short time window
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: and go, what the hell do I do with all this information?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then the other thing that I did that I would do differently given
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: the chance is – I didn't have enough time on the back end of the work.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then I ran some free live webinars, right?
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to make sure that those people who didn't go for
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: the workshop would still get time to learn from me, to engage with me in some way.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't give enough time after the webinar to do email follow-up
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: because I wanted to start Signal in September.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: And because I pushed the workshops back when people needed it,
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Then I didn't start the signal emails as early as I should have about the program.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait to see how many people join your spring.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: The reason I say this is because I have people like, you know, people join the membership.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: They got your amazing, you know, they get your amazing training, which is in there.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I gave too much away in your training, too.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: I really do.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think you did.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: No, you gave.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think you gave enough to say who this is for and what, like,
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: and I think what you and I have both done is we've shifted
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: for our higher touch containers.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: We've shifted, I don't want to say, like, we've shifted the readiness.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I think that's true.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: So your workshop didn't give too much away because they don't know how to fix it.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: But what it did do is says sort of like,
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not ready to do these things, this is not the program for you.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it changed the readiness criteria.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: So now people can say, I now have some things.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: This is what I need to join Meg's program.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: I want to join Meg's program.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: Here's what I need to get ready for that.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: So you'll have fewer people that are ready.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so like I've discovered this myself.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: I have one member.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe she's listening or not.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: She booked one of my diagnostic strategy calls,
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: and we talked about a sales strategy I thought she was missing in her program.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then she booked a 30, I think she, I don't know,
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: did she pay for it?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: It was like maybe her welcome call where we talked about one thing.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: She'd already been through the material.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, I can't join your cohort.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's a busy season.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: But now she wants to book one-on-one calls.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because it took a couple of months with everything going on to like sit
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: with material, learn it, think about it.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think decision timelines are just longer now because there's so much competing
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: for our attention that even if we want to do something, we have to sit with it.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: We have to get ready for it.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: We have to block time on our schedule for it.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it used to be that I think we would be in the economic environment where people
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: who were not the right fit or it was not the right time would jump in
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: because they could.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: And now we're seeing people who are like, I'm not quite ready for this.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: I have other things I need to do.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: You gave me the path to get ready.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: And now I know what I need to have in place to make the most of this investment.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I think also, you know, and you'll be thrilled to hear me say this, I'm sure.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: The follow-up is more important than the sales sequences.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: When you get into a position like you and I are in where you have
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: so much free material,
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: you have so many people who are following you, who are kind of not quite ready yet.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe they raise their hand at some point and say, just reply to a broadcast email.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: Just like a, hey, tell me more about this.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: And they get on your radar and And so I have follow-ups every six months with people
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: who have said,
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: you know, or,
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: a wait list of people that I have on a specific list where I'll reach out
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: to them individually.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like I spent a lot of time doing individual outreach this year,
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: whether they,
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: joined a workshop,
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: replied to an email,
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: they responded in some way to something,
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: they DMed me on LinkedIn, and I'm just doing that outreach.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a huge part of what I have been doing the last two launches is just like,
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, I remember you saying this.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: Is it the time now?
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: And some people have said two or three cycles.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's not time yet.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, OK, is it OK if I reach out to you again?
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: See if it's next time, you know, and like I know that I'm still in their inbox.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: I know that I'm still in their LinkedIn feed.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: I know that I'm still like visible, probably in their ears.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: They might be listening to this right now.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm okay with that, right?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that anybody who says like, no,
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: you need to join now doesn't recognize,
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: maybe we're Aggressively Human,
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: doesn't recognize the reality of time limitations and capacity.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: And like, I know that when people join, actually, I just ran week two of this cohort.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I said,
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: before I started,
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: before I started the training, I said,
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: this week is going to be The foundation that everything else is built on,
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: but you do not have to finish it this week.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: You did not sign up to finish this in two weeks.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: You signed up to take a year to do this, and there's a reason for that.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: So do not beat yourself up if you don't have time this week or this month to do this exercise.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't expect you to be perfect.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: I don't expect you to work on my timeline.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: And one of my members, Jen, was like, yeah, but we did pay to learn this from you.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: We did set aside time to learn this from you.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's a two-way commitment that happens when you join a program like one
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: of ours where it's not just,
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: oh, go watch the self-paced trainings and figure it out, babe.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, no, I'm here for you, but you're here for me.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a relationship that develops over time.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't want people to join because I say it's time for them to join.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: I want them to look at their calendars and look at their goals and say, You know what?
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: Next time is going to be better for me.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: Please follow up with me.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: I followed up with everybody like everyone who joined.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: Was a it was a hand sale.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: I did two broadcasts.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: That was it to basically get people on the wait list.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I actually converted.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe two people from the waitlist.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: I emailed every single person that was on the waitlist.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: But again,
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: most of the people I invited were someone who registered for the open house that was
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: a member.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, hey, I like I said, hey, I want you to come into the program.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: I followed up with people,
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: Personally, multiple times and like, hey, like, you know, answer any questions.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Here's how I think the program is a good fit with you.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: It was substantially more hand selling than I've ever had to do before.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: And not in a bad way, but in a in a personal way, like I want to get my hands in your business.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I also like I will my sales page does not do the amount of personal attention I give to you.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: It really doesn't do it justice because I think most people are so like,
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: What do you mean I get to like send you stuff?
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, yes.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: People are like,
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: I can't believe,
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: like someone sent me like a mini offer doc
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: and I've now discovered sometimes there's things I can do.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: I can just turn it around faster.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: You probably do this with your content too.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like you don't even rewrite anybody's stuff, but you might, I don't know.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: But some people are like,
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: fill out the template and I'll turn it into a usable artifact for you because it's,
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I know what I'm looking for.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it'll,
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: it could take you five hours or 10 hours,
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: and it'll take me about 30 minutes because I've just done this so much.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Just like, let me, let me have it.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: People, you know, they have to experience that in the membership.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a, I'm an,
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm an discovered value,
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: not a totally apparent value right off the, right off the top.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: So people are like, oh my God, you like care so much.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, yes.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't really put that on the sales page because most people
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: in this space don't,
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: not you are obviously different,
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: but like, No,
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: but if you said on the sales page,
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: like, no, really, you get personalized feedback from me.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like how many people have said that?
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like you really do have to experience it to understand it.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: But like there are people who like in the membership,
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: I've just really discovered that if you don't have the capacity in the season
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: to spend four to five hours a week on this material,
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: The membership is not a lesser option.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean you're like less committed to your business.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: For me, it means that like,
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: all right, we're going to like get the level one foundations in place.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to get these essential habits,
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: the lexicons,
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: the thinking,
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: and we're going to do it at a pace that like respects your season of life
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: and your humanity and like what you can take in.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: And the cohort is right at a different point in time.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that's just what I've...
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: One of the trends I'm seeing in the environment is people used to spend money
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: on things when they had the budget, but maybe not the capacity or the readiness.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we're seeing a lot less of that.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: We're seeing like,
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: we're like, okay,
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: like I need,
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: this is actually like a big,
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: I spent Five figures on something where I'm like,
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: I want to be in this person's program and I did it.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm like,
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: I've looked at it and I'm like,
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: I was not, I didn't have the capacity to take advantage of this.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think people are just being much more strategic about where they put their money.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: They're not buying.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they are buying less as a consequence,
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: but I think they're buying smarter and more discerning
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: about what they can actually take on.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: So there's less impulse purchases.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I can't.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: I can't actually remember my last business impulse purchase, but before that I can.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: It was Mary Williams Creators Dojo.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know that I want Mary Williams in the back of my head.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to hear her voice
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: infiltrating my thoughts.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: I don't really want the courses that are in there.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, Mary.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: I just want access to Mary to think like Mary for me.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: And...
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: When that stops being useful or I don't tap into it, then I might exit the dojo.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I can I'll say that to her like this was this was really helpful for the time
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: that I needed
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: to have your brain going monetize sponsorships like here's what I need Mary to do
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: for me and she'll do it for me.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I think,
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: sometimes the goal needs to be clear before you can join a program,
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: but impulsively just going, well, that's open.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's how you get spread too thin.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: You're not really committing to anything versus now I think what you
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: and I are seeing,
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: which is a fantastic space to be in,
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: is fewer people who are more committed, which is delightful.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think also you say you work with beginner businesses,
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: but there's a commitment to what you're doing that I don't see in other programs
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: that also work with beginners.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: So a B-School is not really a thing anymore,
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: but the way that they sell things,
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: and I don't want to like name anyone else's programs,
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: but like the way that other like start your own business online kind of programs,
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: what they're doing is not what you're doing.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: So yes,
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: you can say they're beginners and maybe they're new to running their own business,
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: but they're already experts in their own way.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well,
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's,
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: and so this is,
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: this change in my, where the cohort lives is going along with continued growth.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: Y'all, business evolution doesn't stop.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because,
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: one of the things,
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: and we'll continue to talk about this,
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: is like, okay, I wrote the book, Leaving the Casino.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: But once you've stopped believing the hype,
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: where do you go?
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: Where do you go?
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: Where do you go?
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: So that's like the next evolution of my body of work is like, what do you do then?
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, fucking tired of, there are people telling you how to scale solo.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like selling you one business model.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: You must scale through intensives.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: Here's your freedom number and shit like that.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, okay, yeah, that works for like, here's how you price.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: And here's how you do this particular type of pricing.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, that works for brand designers.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: That can work for some consultants.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: It probably doesn't work for coaches.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know why?
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because like personal transformation isn't like a thing you can deliver in
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: a one week intensive, right?
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm like,
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: I've just,
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think with the membership,
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: I've discovered that I am not selling the dream of entrepreneurship.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm selling the structures, habits, and practices to become an expert business owner.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like the actual practice of business ownership is a discipline in and of itself.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: I have discovered there's no canon for that in the literature.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's how to be a consultant, kind of.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: There's how to run an agency, sort of.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: There's how to run a productized services firm, maybe.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: There's how to sell coaching, maybe.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, there's Prosperous Coach and shit like that.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: There's how to sell coaching engagements.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: There is no body of work around how to be an expert at running your business
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: if you run an expertise business.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: There just isn't.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: And like, I think that there's a lot of, and I mean, I work on top of funnel.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I know this and I can I can speak to the fact that I contribute to this,
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: which is that it's easier and sexier to write the book about how to get the client
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: than how to keep the client.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it's sexier to write the book about how to keep the client than it is
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: to be like, have you looked at your bookkeeping this month?
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have a strong pipeline of people behind that?
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: What are you doing when you're thinking six months ahead or a year ahead?
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: And there's the visioning people and there's the productivity and planning people.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I think you're absolutely right.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: There isn't really one person who,
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: and I'll get a little like,
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'll get a little SEO-y or AI terminology-ish,
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: which is like there's nobody who's semantic territory.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd like to actually do this research for you and I'll come back in
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: a future episode and tell you this.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know of anyone else whose semantic territory is like the rituals
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: and maintenance of running an expert based business and like growing
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: an expert based business in and I'm going to use the word sustainable
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: to mean like time and capacity and resource efficiency,
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: not sustainable as a buzzword,
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: but as a, you know, what does this mean for your life?
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: To be running a business that can support you as an expert that may or may not fit
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: into the universal frameworks of this is how a business is supposed to look.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: Or the playbooks, I'm going to say, not even the frameworks, they're playbooks.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: They're like X's and O's on a clipboard more so than they are something
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: that you can customize to your own needs.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: But what I've observed in this launch is that all these launches is
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: that people are hungry for structure.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: Not everyone.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: The ones who are hungry for structure are hungry for structure.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a need because everyone's like, no one wants to buy like planning week every week.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, all right, well, everyone doesn't have to.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: My people are like, oh, their structure I can fall into.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: People are selling.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: People used to be selling information.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you and I are both selling integration.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, OK, yeah, yeah, you can.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: Look at that sexiness.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, I didn't come up with this on my own.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: This is where I'm, you know, I'm, you know.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: As part of this positioning shifting under me,
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: I've hired my one of my copywriters to do a new welcome sequence.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: And we've got the that'll be part of that'll be the integration gap,
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: which is day six in the email series.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then I have to like, you know, redo my whole other web pages.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: So Courtney Fanning is on the hook for those.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this is not a cheap business that I run.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: But you and I are both selling discernment
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: and we are selling integration alongside information and Choosing what to integrate
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: and actually making the space and capacity to do that is something that,
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: um, like that, that asks people to, to set things down, to pick things up.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that is not something that's like,
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: I want to make sure how at every step of my offers,
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: what I'm asking them to integrate is right-sized one to their,
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: their capacity and two for the price.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: as your ability to integrate,
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: we step that up and you want more of my attention, then that goes with it.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: But that doesn't mean like you're going to get like it's like you're going
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: to get bang for the buck no matter what you do.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's no offer that's less than there's just some that are like more integration
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: and more personal attention.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what you're selling is to like you're like, well,
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: if I buy this program and I don't have time to do the exercises and what did I buy?
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: Mm hmm.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you've done a really good job of screening out.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: If you just want to like watch the videos, this isn't the place for you.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: You can't.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: No, I say if you just want to watch the videos and do this on your own, you can.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: You don't need to send me your weekly feedback.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: You don't need to, you know, show up on the office hours calls.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: You don't need to.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that's part of the other thing that I think is something that you
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: and I do really well, which is like you're an adult.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if you want the results, you don't have to come to the live calls.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what you're like.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to come to Hot Seat Coaching.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: But if you don't fix your brand entity on your site, you're not going to get the results.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, so you're saying just watch the videos, but don't do the work.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: No, you have to do it.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: You have to do the work.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: And you can't listen to half of it and not follow the system and then expect results
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: from a half-assed implementation.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think it used to be a lot of programs are...
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: Observe the videos.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: Watch other people get coached.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that is expected to transform your business.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: And we're asking, we're saying like, no, no, no.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like that might help change like some things and is fine for like a season.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: But if you want to get the results, you have to do the stuff as part of the program.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: And you may or may not be in a readiness state or in a season where you have
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: the capacity to do that.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's a huge shift that has to happen before people can join these programs.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that's sometimes what, I mean,
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: the podcast obviously helps people with that if they're listening,
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: but they may already be there by the time they're listening to this podcast.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: the welcome sequences,
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: the free blogs,
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: whatever it is that we're creating can help with like, what's the priority?
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because all of us do have limited resources.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: Where should I be spending my time?
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: Where should I be spending my resources?
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I think both of us are working on a second book,
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: but our first book was how do you let go of what you've been told?
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's the first step is you can't adopt new everything from everywhere.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: At some point you have to go,
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: well, in order to make space in my life to focus on this, I have to let go of that.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that's scary to let go of what you believe works.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: And in my case,
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: and I think it's more obvious in my case than it is in yours,
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: which is,
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: sometimes you have to let go of marketing strategies that Feel very good
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: for your dopamine,
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: but don't actually change as much as you think in terms of visibility
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: or client relationships or lead generation like TikTok.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's really this is one of the other things that's,
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: you know, coming up in my body work and with my work with people.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really what the membership is designed to help with as well is like.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone sells addition
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: because subtraction and focus does not sell.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: so I'm going to pay for you to tell me to stop doing things and I'm going to pay for
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: the privilege of stopping doing things.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, yes, yes.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: But like, I can't sell you.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: If you choose not to do the yap challenge or you choose not to yap because you know
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: that doesn't belong in your strategy, I then can't sell you the yap challenge.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: If I tell you only focus on like set things down,
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: that means you can't buy the thing that helps you stand it up.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: So like it is not particularly a lucrative thing to sell how to not do stuff.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: Which is like right where we're now is like,
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: actually,
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: that's the first step for so many people is stop doing the stuff
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: that has been just like glommed on your business in the past five to six years
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: because everyone has told you what to do.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, OK,
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: now it's like, well,
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: you mean like I don't need to do that and I don't need to pay for that
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: and I don't need to pay for that.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't need to pay for that.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't need to pay for that.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, yes, that is correct.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: But that doesn't make me a lot of money at An individual level,
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: it does at scale, but not in an individual level, me telling you no, no.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: Great for my brand promise, not so great for my bottom line.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: But, I mean, I think your brand promise is a long game.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think people have to hear it a lot and over a long period of time and start
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: to test it out themselves before they are ready to invest in you.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that's I think that's maybe the biggest takeaway that I'm hearing
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: from this conversation is like,
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: just because neither of us sold out our launches this quarter doesn't mean
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: that they weren't successful.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's just that we are helping people to discern whether or not they're a good fit
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: for us because the type of work that we do is intense.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: And we want the right people in the right room,
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: in the right headspace with the right Ability to integrate and to work and to do.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: And if you don't have that,
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: then like, I don't want to say I would never say like, I don't want you there.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: But I'd rather I'd rather talk you out of it.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'd rather talk you out of joining something that you either aren't a good fit for,
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: aren't prepared for, or don't have time for.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'll send you to Jessica to tell you how to make time for it
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: because I don't want to do that.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: What I think I've actually observed in this conversation, one,
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think we actually will tell people we don't want you to spend money with us
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: because it's not the right time.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: But two,
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: it used to be that the conventional launch strategy was get people
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: on your newsletter six to eight weeks before the launch,
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: have some webinar content, and then sell.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what you and I are both discovering is that they need to engage with you
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: and your work six months in advance.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: They need to understand your way of thinking over a substantially,
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: not just through newsletters,
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: but through like live content,
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: through engaging with your work for a substantially longer period of time to
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: then like understand what they're doing,
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: like understand like what, like your, your frameworks you're thinking and then join.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: So your launch is really a staggered launch.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like the people who are joining now actually You launched to them six months ago in the spring.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: And the people who joined your webinars now,
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: but it's,
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think we were used to being like, oh, like,
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: you know, exposure, visibility, you know, fast action webinar thing to convert.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's now it's staggered.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think the people you'll sell in.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: The next launch are the ones who heard you in the membership.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: They're the ones who came to your last webinar.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: They're the ones who joined your emails during the last list,
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: integrated what you had to say,
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: evaluated their own readiness, and they're like, now I'm ready.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I planned and prioritized for this, knowing that it was coming.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we have to broadcast and set the stage.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm reopening in six months.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want me to reach out to you when I have the exact dates?
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: And you made a really good point earlier,
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: and I want to pick that up too,
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: which is that you didn't, very few of your leads were cold.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: You did personal outreach to everyone.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's also something that I don't want to gloss over in these sort
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: of final takeaways is, Personal touch matters.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: And you have kind of two options,
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_01: which is get more people in a lower conversion rate or engage with the people
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: who have expressed some interest with you and wait until they're ready and help them
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: with these baby steps along the way so that when they are ready,
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: you're there and you're top of mind.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I am shifting.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: Based on what I'm hearing in the welcome calls,
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: and I'll be curious to hear if there's something that this resonates for you.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: I am seeing that my some of my coursework,
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: like the three hundred to four hundred dollar courses that I've done sort
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: of standalone as they started as a deep dive for my cohort members.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I can only cover one week of this and you actually need six.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm actually adding a couple of more things to the membership upgrade as courses
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: so that there's the ability to like Like college prerequisites,
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: for lack of a better word.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like if,
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: if this, if the, if the,
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: if the Define Your Foundations cohort is meant to be like kind of business school,
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: what are the prerequisite foundational things that we need to have in place
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: that my current body of work doesn't have structurally sound enough to be like,
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: specifically on premise?
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's like,
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: premise is like,
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: What do you believe is different than about you and your competitors?
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that question in of itself deserves a structured way to answer it,
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: which I do not have in my canon.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I know I need it.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I just built that into my canon.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: I just built it in this month.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: That question.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: What you call premise, I call narrative differentiation.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm building that into some of what I have in Signal.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: So Maybe we'll have a future episode on that because I feel like you
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: and I will have different angles and ways to approach that same conversation.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: So let's put a pin in it for 2027.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm realizing that as my body of work has changed,
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: as my client base has changed, there's things.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm actually not offering the cohort in the spring.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to be a once a year upgrade.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: To this membership experience.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you don't start business school in the spring.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: You start business school in September.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: This is an academic calendar, Jessica.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it used to be that there was no way if you couldn't,
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: it was six months in between to like,
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: but now I'm like, actually, I want you to go through the building blocks curriculum.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: I actually want you to go through this level one authority class that I haven't yet made.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to go through a planning intensive.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to go through relationship rhythms and then If you were like,
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: I still want more of Jessica and I want to turn it up to 11,
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_00: now I want to be in the cohort.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I wonder for you, is there smaller bites that people need before Signal?
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's a really interesting question to ask me right now.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to go on the record with this, but I'm going to tell you and listeners.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, listeners.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_01: We always say that this is just the conversation that Jessica and I would have anyway.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm going to tell you that I'm thinking of splitting signal into two.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_01: I ran it once and I ran it based on like, here are the elements that you need to know.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: Here are the things that you need to think about.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: It was very like, here's the mechanism and here are all the levers that you can pull.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: And based on the questions that I got from people,
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_01: I realized I needed to be like, okay, here's how things can change.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_01: Not just here's which levers you can pull,
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: but how do you know which lever to pull in which order?
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_01: What's the order of operations?
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: What do you need to know?
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: What are the dependencies that And what are the foundations you need to have
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_01: before you can start making these changes?
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_01: And something that I realized at some point over the summer is that
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_01: the first thing is you need to have your positioning pretty clear.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have to be crystal clear, but it has to be, I'm going to use the word sharp.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: It has to be really sharp positioning.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you're trying to go broad,
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_01: and this has always been true for search, even in the keyword days.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: If you're like, I want to be found for coach, then you're up against purses.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_01: You're up against buses if you're in the UK, right?
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's such a generic phrase.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're trying to be found for a business strategist
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_01: who helps people maintain long-term expert-based businesses,
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: like I said, there's not a lot of people in that semantic territory.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_01: But you need to know that before you can start building out your website to say,
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_01: oh, here's all the things that I need to change.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so one of the things that I'm considering is And Sheen and I have been sort
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_01: of sitting down and splitting out what goes where and how would this work.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not thinking I'm not committing to anything.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm considering.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm hypothesizing.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to make it through this round of signal before I make any decisions.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's basically taking the first four weeks of my program and making them
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_01: a live standalone where people can just go through the positioning modules and say,
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: you know, how are you currently perceived in search?
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_01: Is it what you wish you were showing up for?
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_01: Not just does it know who you are, but is it recommending you anywhere?
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: If so, what's it recommending you for?
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_01: If not, what isn't it recommending you for and who is it recommending instead?
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_01: What have you put out into the world that may or may not be attributed to you?
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_01: What have you created that you have not published?
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm hearing you,
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: Jessica,
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: where you're like, oh,
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: I have this, you know, This email sequence that I'm rewriting and I'm like, cool.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: And where are we publishing it?
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's and what have you done before this and what's still in your head
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_01: that you didn't realize was that missing gap in your positioning and and who else is
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: in your same industry?
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: Who's doing things differently than you?
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: And how are they doing it differently than you?
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: And how are you explaining how you are different than other people in your field?
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's how we're going to get AI recommendations.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so if I can get people there of how do I describe what I do clearly and sharply
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: and different from everyone else and explaining how I got to make those decisions,
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_01: then they can take a breather.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe they take six months off before they go, and how do I change my website?
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_01: What do I do with this information?
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_01: and there's a lot of people who do because I've done the research right on
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_01: the semantic territory.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of people who do thought leadership and say,
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_01: what's your thought leadership or what's your IP or what's your process
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_01: or what's your signature methodology?
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then they don't tell you what to do with it to get it to be marketable.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_01: They're just like, oh, we'll go write a book, get a book deal.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_01: Go speak on stages.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's sort of the or like turn it into a signature product and then run it through
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_01: a Facebook ads funnel.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's not really a lot of the how to get found for your thought leadership piece.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's so much out there that's like
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_01: if you already know what your positioning is,
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_01: then yes,
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_01: here's how to clarify your entity and organize your website and make sure that all
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_01: of your expertise is legible.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_01: But there's nobody.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, there's one other person.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_01: There's one other person that I found in my research who does both of these things,
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_01: but otherwise I think I'm the only one.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so I want to make that clearer over the next six months of like,
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_01: what are these two sort of expertises that I have and where's
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_01: the Venn diagram overlapping and why does that matter?
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think going into 2027, I'm going to have to do my own narrative differentiation work.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: Both for Love at First Search and these conversations that we're having on Aggressively Human.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're going to have to do more of our own narrative differentiation
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_01: of what we're talking about here that's different from other business podcasts.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_01: And that'll probably be an example that I use in
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_01: the narrative differentiation slides and the trainings of,
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_01: how are you and I creating a body of work together that's different from either
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_01: of our businesses?
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_01: Again.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_01: Future episode, 2027.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: We've already been going for 56 minutes.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_01: We don't need to go down that way.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember if that was the question that you asked me.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: Was that the question that you asked me?
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't remember, but I think that's a good place to end our episode.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: And because we've been talking now for over 56 minutes and we want
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_01: to respect people's time,
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_01: what do you think about skipping Aggressively Human this week?
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because this whole episode was just behind the scenes,
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_01: us being Aggressively Human and maybe like a little bit too vulnerable.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if you can't be vulnerable with your co-host and a couple hundred listeners,
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_00: who can you be vulnerable with?
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I do want to let you know if you've been listening for this long
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_01: that I am giving myself my own 30-day LinkedIn challenge,
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_01: which has absolutely nothing to do with getting people to engage with me on LinkedIn
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_01: because I'm testing how fast it gets indexed on the internet.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_01: So if you want to come over and see what I'm doing on LinkedIn,
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_01: that's one way to see how I'm trying to create in public,
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_01: which I think is really important.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_01: Other than that,
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_01: we will be back next week with our guest interview and that'll be more about how
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_01: to become more Aggressively Human.